Bad News CATC March has fallen thru
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Hear hear gilaine, i couldn't agree more mate!
I for one have waited 2 and a bit years to get a place at CATC and wouldn't give it up for the world.
I can't believe how lucky i am to be here. The course is fantastic and I can't wait to get operational!
You've got to remember that you have beaten at least 40 people to get the place you have at CATC!!! Feel, lucky, feel proud.......get the
on with it!!
You won't be disappointed!
I for one have waited 2 and a bit years to get a place at CATC and wouldn't give it up for the world.
I can't believe how lucky i am to be here. The course is fantastic and I can't wait to get operational!
You've got to remember that you have beaten at least 40 people to get the place you have at CATC!!! Feel, lucky, feel proud.......get the
on with it!!You won't be disappointed!
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Hi all,
As one of scotsliveits friends i have to put in a good word for him.
I too am on the march aerodrome course, and was asked to make the decision without really knowing a great deal about either roles.
Im sure he's not whinging about the job but more the way we have been treated, and im sure once you guys meet him you will find him a good guy.
All of us on the march course were put on the spot and asked to make a decision, without knowing all the facts, and basically told that we could 'like it or lump it'. So please forgive us for feeling a little disgruntled at the way NATS have treated us, but it was the way it was done rather than what was done that got me.
Anyway my decision has been made now, and im looking forward to getting to CATC, and getting stuck in to the work.
As one of scotsliveits friends i have to put in a good word for him.
I too am on the march aerodrome course, and was asked to make the decision without really knowing a great deal about either roles.
Im sure he's not whinging about the job but more the way we have been treated, and im sure once you guys meet him you will find him a good guy.
All of us on the march course were put on the spot and asked to make a decision, without knowing all the facts, and basically told that we could 'like it or lump it'. So please forgive us for feeling a little disgruntled at the way NATS have treated us, but it was the way it was done rather than what was done that got me.
Anyway my decision has been made now, and im looking forward to getting to CATC, and getting stuck in to the work.
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It's been said already but...
...up until about 2 minutes ago, you were told you had a place at the college, and that was that.
Not 'til 7/8/9 months into the courses did we get an inkling as to whether you would go ACC or APC.
Suggest you all don't sign mobile grade on the form, cross it out and write "Just NERC please, many thanks", and see what happens. (to be fair they probably wouldn't notice, but that's not the point!)
You should have all known that you could get any discipline, anywhere, or not have bothered applying, as it would cause all this "heartache".
Pretty simple, and now such a hoohah's been made, there'll be a close eye on you at CATC!!
Good mate of mine didn't drop a mark on his approach course, asked for BB or CC, got LC. Thats the NATS way, as i'm sure you're all used to, having got through the recruitment minefield.
Good luck anyway, it's a brilliant job, hard graft for the first 2years (on average!), then truly enjoyable, until they cart you away to Prestwick!!
Not 'til 7/8/9 months into the courses did we get an inkling as to whether you would go ACC or APC.
Suggest you all don't sign mobile grade on the form, cross it out and write "Just NERC please, many thanks", and see what happens. (to be fair they probably wouldn't notice, but that's not the point!)
You should have all known that you could get any discipline, anywhere, or not have bothered applying, as it would cause all this "heartache".
Pretty simple, and now such a hoohah's been made, there'll be a close eye on you at CATC!!
Good mate of mine didn't drop a mark on his approach course, asked for BB or CC, got LC. Thats the NATS way, as i'm sure you're all used to, having got through the recruitment minefield.
Good luck anyway, it's a brilliant job, hard graft for the first 2years (on average!), then truly enjoyable, until they cart you away to Prestwick!!
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SR462.
As has been mentioned above, the rest of us didn't really get a choice, and we didn't have the option to defer if we didn't want what was offered.
From what I hear, I think NATS have treated you all pretty well. They could have been well within their rights to not tell you or give you any choice at all, and just inform you that you were all going to area when you got to the College.
As has been mentioned above, the rest of us didn't really get a choice, and we didn't have the option to defer if we didn't want what was offered.
From what I hear, I think NATS have treated you all pretty well. They could have been well within their rights to not tell you or give you any choice at all, and just inform you that you were all going to area when you got to the College.
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All ratings are different. There are different techniques involved with each one. I've got all 5 from the old days. My advice is approach/tower, but this what I personally prefer. Seeing the a/c and tight vectoring. I was advised when I worked as an assistant at LATCC to do area if we had to choose, luckily made to do the lot. With area you are limited to your destination either Swanick or eventually Prestwick. If you do tower/approach then you can work anywhere in the country. Or even with the new harmonised licences work abroad. This is only my view from experience and what I prefer, many controllers will disagree as they prefer the centres. Also as somebody posted earlier, the success rate is higher for tower/approach. I'm not saying easier, as all disciplines are different. Take the course and get your foot on the ladder of a great career. If it doesn't work out come and fly it's easier.
Rgds ILS 119.5
Rgds ILS 119.5
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but more the way we have been treated
As harsh as it sounds, the general consensus is stop your bitching and get on with it.
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I can't believe I'm hearing some of this tripe
Some points that you should bear in mind if you come into the world of Air Traffic Control, be it Aerodrome, Approach or Area :
1) You are damn lucky to have a job in this day and age. If you are moaning about money then you will soon be very very unpopular with all the support people that work around you in ATC. If you want to earn millions then bugger off and be a banker or a lawyer or something
2) If some of you come to out to the Airports side with an "I never asked to be here attitude" then you will very soon find out that you won't be there for very long...... and you will also find yourself out of a job. The days of re-assigning people to different units are long gone. Very few people get a second chance!!
3) Just because you have passed the selection and been offered a place doesn't mean that you are all of a sudden an "aviation specialist" and gives you the right to blather about things you know nothing about. One visit to LACC or EGLL does not make you an expert!!
4) If you are coming into this job purely for monetary reasons then think again. The majority of people who pass the courses and make good, productive controllers are the people who have a genuine interest in aviation and the business in which they are providing a service. I stand by everything that Pedro (Bern) has posted and he is completely correct. We WILL weed you out one way or another!
5) If you think this is bad then wait until you get options for postings for those of you that actually manage to get through CATCC. If you think you are joining NATS, passing the course and getting free rein as to where you go then think on. The number of people who get posted to the unit of their choice is very very small at the moment. If you end up somewhere you don't want to be and you make with the attitude then this will be very quickly picked up by your OJTIs and your Head Of Training and I can tell you for free that we do not put up with trainees who give us sh1t. Not with millions of pounds worth of jets and lots of lives screaming about around us!
6) For those of you who get in, aren't really bothered about whether you end up Area, Approach or Aerodrome, and you aren't bothered which unit you end up, then welcome to NATS. You are the people who will find that this is the most rewarding, demanding, exciting, fun, interesting, unusual, surprising career that you can possibly embark on
Its going to be a lot of hard work for you, but take it from me and all the other people who work operationally at whatever unit, it is totally 100% worth it!!
Some points that you should bear in mind if you come into the world of Air Traffic Control, be it Aerodrome, Approach or Area :
1) You are damn lucky to have a job in this day and age. If you are moaning about money then you will soon be very very unpopular with all the support people that work around you in ATC. If you want to earn millions then bugger off and be a banker or a lawyer or something
2) If some of you come to out to the Airports side with an "I never asked to be here attitude" then you will very soon find out that you won't be there for very long...... and you will also find yourself out of a job. The days of re-assigning people to different units are long gone. Very few people get a second chance!!
3) Just because you have passed the selection and been offered a place doesn't mean that you are all of a sudden an "aviation specialist" and gives you the right to blather about things you know nothing about. One visit to LACC or EGLL does not make you an expert!!
4) If you are coming into this job purely for monetary reasons then think again. The majority of people who pass the courses and make good, productive controllers are the people who have a genuine interest in aviation and the business in which they are providing a service. I stand by everything that Pedro (Bern) has posted and he is completely correct. We WILL weed you out one way or another!
5) If you think this is bad then wait until you get options for postings for those of you that actually manage to get through CATCC. If you think you are joining NATS, passing the course and getting free rein as to where you go then think on. The number of people who get posted to the unit of their choice is very very small at the moment. If you end up somewhere you don't want to be and you make with the attitude then this will be very quickly picked up by your OJTIs and your Head Of Training and I can tell you for free that we do not put up with trainees who give us sh1t. Not with millions of pounds worth of jets and lots of lives screaming about around us!
6) For those of you who get in, aren't really bothered about whether you end up Area, Approach or Aerodrome, and you aren't bothered which unit you end up, then welcome to NATS. You are the people who will find that this is the most rewarding, demanding, exciting, fun, interesting, unusual, surprising career that you can possibly embark on
Its going to be a lot of hard work for you, but take it from me and all the other people who work operationally at whatever unit, it is totally 100% worth it!!
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Halo,
Well said, I had no Idea where I would end up. But my first need was to pass the course and work in aviation. It was hard work but well worth it and I agree that certain members assume it will be a walk in the park. I remember on my course that certain cadets felt that it was priviledge to be on the course, others viewed it the other way round, most of the latter failed. As time passes your needs and ambitions change, hence now flying. I think from my course about 6 of us are flying commercially.
Well said, I had no Idea where I would end up. But my first need was to pass the course and work in aviation. It was hard work but well worth it and I agree that certain members assume it will be a walk in the park. I remember on my course that certain cadets felt that it was priviledge to be on the course, others viewed it the other way round, most of the latter failed. As time passes your needs and ambitions change, hence now flying. I think from my course about 6 of us are flying commercially.
I say there boy
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Honest direct opinions and the odd harsh words. I guess that's what pprune's been about over the years.
Being a March bod, rightly or wrongly I feel tarred by the brush of what has been said, for the record the only reason I had a preference of Area was a practical one. It would have given the highest chance of minimum disruption for my wife and her career as a Swanwick posting would mean one less move; what with junior Foghorn #1 who is due in April in the picture as well (that will let anyone from the college positively ID me now from the bags under my eyes come April!)
I owed it to her to consult with her as she and junior will be just as affected as me by the closing off of the Swanwick option, so I didn't snap HR's hand off there and then, I waited until she got home.
I am over the moon that I have been selected for a place with NATS and am desperate to get to college, I have been ever since that magic acceptance letter dropped through the door almost a year ago now. Thankfully she understands this, so March it is; I've already put off a December course so that I don't have to leave her on her own heavily pregnant so she agrees with me that I shouldn't delay any longer. The decision having been made I was on the phone first thing this morning to make sure I got one of the 10 places going.
I'll be delighted with whatever course and posting I get - there are pros and cons to all of them from what I with my limited knowledge can work out, and I'm sure the pros will outweigh the cons wherever I get sent, added with the elation of finally doing what I am told is the best job in the world!
Being a March bod, rightly or wrongly I feel tarred by the brush of what has been said, for the record the only reason I had a preference of Area was a practical one. It would have given the highest chance of minimum disruption for my wife and her career as a Swanwick posting would mean one less move; what with junior Foghorn #1 who is due in April in the picture as well (that will let anyone from the college positively ID me now from the bags under my eyes come April!)
I owed it to her to consult with her as she and junior will be just as affected as me by the closing off of the Swanwick option, so I didn't snap HR's hand off there and then, I waited until she got home.
I am over the moon that I have been selected for a place with NATS and am desperate to get to college, I have been ever since that magic acceptance letter dropped through the door almost a year ago now. Thankfully she understands this, so March it is; I've already put off a December course so that I don't have to leave her on her own heavily pregnant so she agrees with me that I shouldn't delay any longer. The decision having been made I was on the phone first thing this morning to make sure I got one of the 10 places going.
I'll be delighted with whatever course and posting I get - there are pros and cons to all of them from what I with my limited knowledge can work out, and I'm sure the pros will outweigh the cons wherever I get sent, added with the elation of finally doing what I am told is the best job in the world!
Last edited by foghorn; 6th Jan 2005 at 00:27.
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Oh my God!
Well I figured out what all the blank messages are on the house phone are then.
Smoggie, my flatmate (due for the March course) is overseas at the moment and getting back in tomorrow morning! Wait till she gets my voice mail.
Funny thing is that she first of all wanted TWR but having had a couple of visits and chats she says she can see the good things in both sides.
Hopefully she can get in touch with HR today and clarify her place.
Halo/Heathrow Director I will also keep my fingers crossed that she does a bit of training at EGLL - that's where I work too (I'm one of the knackered voices you hear first thing in the morning saying "No course we don't have a landing time restriction")
Cheers
BB
Well I figured out what all the blank messages are on the house phone are then.
Smoggie, my flatmate (due for the March course) is overseas at the moment and getting back in tomorrow morning! Wait till she gets my voice mail.
Funny thing is that she first of all wanted TWR but having had a couple of visits and chats she says she can see the good things in both sides.
Hopefully she can get in touch with HR today and clarify her place.
Halo/Heathrow Director I will also keep my fingers crossed that she does a bit of training at EGLL - that's where I work too (I'm one of the knackered voices you hear first thing in the morning saying "No course we don't have a landing time restriction")
Cheers
BB
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An interesting point made by Halo which i would wish to add to.
Our very first day of introduction at Bournville we were all asked why we wanted to be an ATCO. I remember it all too well, those who said they liked the money to a person never made it through either the college or validation training.
When you get through the college those of you bemoaning the fact that you haven't got the discipline you wanted will soon realise what an enormous team ATC is let alone NATS. Your colleagues wont just be the people sat beside you they will be at the end of a phone line sometimes in a different country, you will find your colleagues may be non NATS. You soon realise that it makes no difference what discipline you have and how we all work as a team.
I was a lucky one I had a choice, my original choice would have been that of an area controller but when realising I had a choice decided upon the Aerodrome Approach path . I have never once regretted it as I am sure i equally wouldn't have done had I chosen the area path.
Once you are training I am quite sure you will feel rather foolish for having even thought about raising the issue in the first place.
Our very first day of introduction at Bournville we were all asked why we wanted to be an ATCO. I remember it all too well, those who said they liked the money to a person never made it through either the college or validation training.
When you get through the college those of you bemoaning the fact that you haven't got the discipline you wanted will soon realise what an enormous team ATC is let alone NATS. Your colleagues wont just be the people sat beside you they will be at the end of a phone line sometimes in a different country, you will find your colleagues may be non NATS. You soon realise that it makes no difference what discipline you have and how we all work as a team.
I was a lucky one I had a choice, my original choice would have been that of an area controller but when realising I had a choice decided upon the Aerodrome Approach path . I have never once regretted it as I am sure i equally wouldn't have done had I chosen the area path.
Once you are training I am quite sure you will feel rather foolish for having even thought about raising the issue in the first place.
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Judged
Well looks like there's been alot of Judging and presumptions being made about me and others.
'Close eye' mmm that's quite worrying. Is that the way it works? I'm not going to be inflamatory in this reply but here goes:
1/ Never claimed to be an aviation expert, constantly asked for information.
2/ Attitude good, 100% ready. Would have prefered to have been on a normal course. Had an Introduction exposure to both streams, had a valid opinion of where I wanted to go and then went where I was placed like everyone else has in the past.
3/. MONEY Not my motivation at all. If it was I'd stay in my present well paid position and not embark on the fascinating challenging adventure ahead.
4/ Don't call me a PRAT
5/ I probably know the same about ATC as anyone else in my position (very little, surface stuff). I received a phone call first thing Tues morning and was asked to decide the next 6/7 years of my ATC career with solely this surface knowledge. Asked advice, was Judged and given stick(by some). Mmm Ok
One of my friends took too long to decide and missed his place.
6/ I have enthusiatically accepted the offer after advice from ATCO's of varying experience including those on here and my own thoughts.
I cant wait to start and will now sell my home when I sign the dotted line.
I and my friends thank you all for your advice.
'Close eye' mmm that's quite worrying. Is that the way it works? I'm not going to be inflamatory in this reply but here goes:
1/ Never claimed to be an aviation expert, constantly asked for information.
2/ Attitude good, 100% ready. Would have prefered to have been on a normal course. Had an Introduction exposure to both streams, had a valid opinion of where I wanted to go and then went where I was placed like everyone else has in the past.
3/. MONEY Not my motivation at all. If it was I'd stay in my present well paid position and not embark on the fascinating challenging adventure ahead.
4/ Don't call me a PRAT
5/ I probably know the same about ATC as anyone else in my position (very little, surface stuff). I received a phone call first thing Tues morning and was asked to decide the next 6/7 years of my ATC career with solely this surface knowledge. Asked advice, was Judged and given stick(by some). Mmm Ok
One of my friends took too long to decide and missed his place.
6/ I have enthusiatically accepted the offer after advice from ATCO's of varying experience including those on here and my own thoughts.
I cant wait to start and will now sell my home when I sign the dotted line.
I and my friends thank you all for your advice.
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Well guys, what can I say.
I get home from work to a message from my flatmate telling me to check out this thread as the March course was going to be TWR/APP only. Cool, fantastic. After over a year and a half of waiting I just want a start date! I then open a letter from NATS telling me my course has been cancelled and I might get a course in Jun or Sep 05.
As I've already handed in my notice at work - HR confirmed me on the Mar 05 course last August - I've now got to try and persuade them to have me back or find some sort of temporary work for 3 or 6 months.
Apparently a course of 36 was whittled down to 11, but there was no fair system such as date of application used, it was just names out of a hat!
So if any of you guys still have any doubts about whether you'd prefer area, feel free to do me a favour and take a later course so I can have your spot!!
a very p***ed off smoggie
I get home from work to a message from my flatmate telling me to check out this thread as the March course was going to be TWR/APP only. Cool, fantastic. After over a year and a half of waiting I just want a start date! I then open a letter from NATS telling me my course has been cancelled and I might get a course in Jun or Sep 05.
As I've already handed in my notice at work - HR confirmed me on the Mar 05 course last August - I've now got to try and persuade them to have me back or find some sort of temporary work for 3 or 6 months.
Apparently a course of 36 was whittled down to 11, but there was no fair system such as date of application used, it was just names out of a hat!
So if any of you guys still have any doubts about whether you'd prefer area, feel free to do me a favour and take a later course so I can have your spot!!
a very p***ed off smoggie
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Bloomin 'eck, that were quick!
Well I dont know which one of you decided you'd prefer area but I've just had a call saying I'm back on the March course - wahey!
Although must admit think I'll be having anxiety attacks everytime the phone goes or a letter from NATS arrives until I'm sat in that classroom on the 7th!
a very happy smoggie
Well I dont know which one of you decided you'd prefer area but I've just had a call saying I'm back on the March course - wahey!
Although must admit think I'll be having anxiety attacks everytime the phone goes or a letter from NATS arrives until I'm sat in that classroom on the 7th!
a very happy smoggie
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<<I probably know the same about ATC as anyone else in my position (very little, surface stuff)>>
One assumes that at the interview someone asked you why you wanted a career in ATC? I'd be interested to know what you replied.
One assumes that at the interview someone asked you why you wanted a career in ATC? I'd be interested to know what you replied.
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Congratulations Smoggie and others starting in March - and all the best of luck, and I hope those who feel unjustly judged etc learn a vital lesson before the sims start, and one which carries on throughout your trainee career... Whenever your mentor gives advise, criticism etc ACCEPT IT, the worst and sadly a very common thing trainees say to me is " I was just going to do that " or " it wasnt me " etc, excuse...
Its a busy world in ATC and the time isnt there to hold hands and mollycodle folk along. If you make a mistake just shut up, learn from it and most of all dont do it again.
We may seem harsh and/or abrupt but thats just the way things are and id love to be everyones friend but that aint my job and i only wanna work with able,motivated and receptive trainees as theyre gonna be my peers one day.
Take note and again the very best for march... youll love it!
Its a busy world in ATC and the time isnt there to hold hands and mollycodle folk along. If you make a mistake just shut up, learn from it and most of all dont do it again.
We may seem harsh and/or abrupt but thats just the way things are and id love to be everyones friend but that aint my job and i only wanna work with able,motivated and receptive trainees as theyre gonna be my peers one day.
Take note and again the very best for march... youll love it!
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Congratulations Smoggie
Congratulations Smoggie see you there.
Heathrow Director : You'd be interested to know what I replied when asked why I wanted a career in ATC. Why do you want to know that Sir?
I get the impression you're trying to pick a fight with me.
If you're SINCERE I'll PM you and tell you what I honestly told my recruiter. And why I want this career. I read all my recruitment documentation from cover to cover and learned it. I've done my own research outwith this as well. I was sincere, honest, enthusiastic and motivated my recruiter saw this and hired me.
I know this is just the surface and I'll learn much more at CATC, alot more as I work to validate, even continually more once valid.
You through no knowledge of me and this amazing internet medium have judged otherwise apparently.
I've had dozens of PM's of support and advice which I am truly thankful of and have forwarded on to my friends.
Heathrow Director : You'd be interested to know what I replied when asked why I wanted a career in ATC. Why do you want to know that Sir?
I get the impression you're trying to pick a fight with me.
If you're SINCERE I'll PM you and tell you what I honestly told my recruiter. And why I want this career. I read all my recruitment documentation from cover to cover and learned it. I've done my own research outwith this as well. I was sincere, honest, enthusiastic and motivated my recruiter saw this and hired me.
I know this is just the surface and I'll learn much more at CATC, alot more as I work to validate, even continually more once valid.
You through no knowledge of me and this amazing internet medium have judged otherwise apparently.
I've had dozens of PM's of support and advice which I am truly thankful of and have forwarded on to my friends.