Bad News CATC March has fallen thru
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Scotsliveit,
I'm glad you have taken the plunge, and if you can genuinely say in a year when you're training at a unit (perhaps even valid!) that you still think you made the wrong choice, I'll buy you a beer!
Being serious for once......
I guess it's a bit difficult for us to appreciate the choice you were asked to make on next to no information, because all of us had a basic understanding of airports v area when we chose. And when one steps back I don't think anyone could criticise what you've said, because all the initial NATS info, and even at the college, is that Area is where the action is, where the money is. Notwithstanding the fact that it's a load of old horse manure. That's because the college is very much more geared towards area than aiports.
Just think, in October I could be training you at Heathrow, while those who chose area would have only just got halfway through the college.
I'm glad you have taken the plunge, and if you can genuinely say in a year when you're training at a unit (perhaps even valid!) that you still think you made the wrong choice, I'll buy you a beer!
Being serious for once......
I guess it's a bit difficult for us to appreciate the choice you were asked to make on next to no information, because all of us had a basic understanding of airports v area when we chose. And when one steps back I don't think anyone could criticise what you've said, because all the initial NATS info, and even at the college, is that Area is where the action is, where the money is. Notwithstanding the fact that it's a load of old horse manure. That's because the college is very much more geared towards area than aiports.
Just think, in October I could be training you at Heathrow, while those who chose area would have only just got halfway through the college.
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If it's any consolation at all, I started with NATS in 1992 wanting to work at an airport. To my (then) disappointment my course was designated all area. The initial disappointment was VERY short once we got on with things, although in those days we did still do the aerodrome rating course. I then managed to flunk my training at a later stage and I'm now ADC/APR at a regional airport, so it all turned out for me. Sometimes these things just take a little time 
My advice? Go to the college, do the course, get to your unit and enjoy!
My advice? Go to the college, do the course, get to your unit and enjoy!
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scotsliveit
I think you need to re-evaluate your attitude before you start at CATC.
Air Traffic Control is all about being part of a team and there is no room for elitism. (Banter yes, elitism no!
)
Every ATSU from Sumburgh to LACC is challenging in it's own way and you will make a lot of enemies for yourself along the way if you alienate everyone outside Swanwick before you even start at the College! The salary paid to ATCO2's at Swanwick is not as great as it sounds as the cost of living warrants the higher rate, and there is no "weighting" allowance as there used to be in London! There are many ATCO 3's at regional airports who enjoy a better standard of living than the ATCO 2's daaan saaarf due to the relative costs of living.
An ADC/APR course will stand you in good stead to work at any NATS unit in the United Kingdom except ScOACC (when TC moves to Swanwick that is!).
As far as getting your family sorted, until you are valid at an operational unit, you future is far from secure. However once valid, the chances of compulsory posting these days are slim unless your units role is moved to another unit (a la Manch to ScOACC and LATCC to Swanwick). You just need to ask the many Airport Controllers who do want a posting but cannot get one!!
If you want to go to work everyday to be busy and pushed right to the limit, Heathrow are constantly on the look out for controllers (Tower only) and there is an ongoing recruitment drive for valid ATCO's to transfer there. As has been mentioned before, there is also an ongoing trawl for valid experienced Airport ATCO's to retrain as Area Controllers.
Not sure where you get your info on for taking a pay cut to retrain. If you move from an ATCO 3 unit to do the Area Course it is actually a promotion and you take a pay rise on transfer to the ATCO 2 scale when you start the Area Course! You dont go back to student pay!!!! 
Still expect to earn over £35k including shift pay when you come off the T & D scale at an ATCO 3 unit. Expect the same as Swanwick on the ATCO 2 scale.
Again I think you need to re-appraise yourself with the roles of Air Traffic Controllers. If you want all the gory details, have a look at Sections 1 to 4 of Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1.
Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but I think that in your current mind set you are doing yourself a grave injustice in your future career.
Feel free to PM me
I think you need to re-evaluate your attitude before you start at CATC.
Air Traffic Control is all about being part of a team and there is no room for elitism. (Banter yes, elitism no!
)Every ATSU from Sumburgh to LACC is challenging in it's own way and you will make a lot of enemies for yourself along the way if you alienate everyone outside Swanwick before you even start at the College! The salary paid to ATCO2's at Swanwick is not as great as it sounds as the cost of living warrants the higher rate, and there is no "weighting" allowance as there used to be in London! There are many ATCO 3's at regional airports who enjoy a better standard of living than the ATCO 2's daaan saaarf due to the relative costs of living.
An ADC/APR course will stand you in good stead to work at any NATS unit in the United Kingdom except ScOACC (when TC moves to Swanwick that is!).
As far as getting your family sorted, until you are valid at an operational unit, you future is far from secure. However once valid, the chances of compulsory posting these days are slim unless your units role is moved to another unit (a la Manch to ScOACC and LATCC to Swanwick). You just need to ask the many Airport Controllers who do want a posting but cannot get one!!
If you want to go to work everyday to be busy and pushed right to the limit, Heathrow are constantly on the look out for controllers (Tower only) and there is an ongoing recruitment drive for valid ATCO's to transfer there. As has been mentioned before, there is also an ongoing trawl for valid experienced Airport ATCO's to retrain as Area Controllers.
You're right It's wiser to get valid in as many things as possible and perhaps transfer to area later (but that's five years after validation then taking a pay cut to retrain)
I'd really appreciate some more info on my prospective payscales now.
Also have I gone from keeping planes apart and to just directing airplanes (on the ground) around the airport and if I'm lucky getting to do approach as well (where the planes are actually in the air)
Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but I think that in your current mind set you are doing yourself a grave injustice in your future career.
Feel free to PM me
)
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When i think of all those people when i was going through the college who would have given their eye teeth to have down approach courses !!!!!!
I think you will find which ever discipline you do that you will enjoy it. Each has its own unique challenges. I am very lucky to do a job i enjoy, be it Aerodrome, or Area you are extremely lucky to get the opportunity to train , many don't get this far.
I think you will find which ever discipline you do that you will enjoy it. Each has its own unique challenges. I am very lucky to do a job i enjoy, be it Aerodrome, or Area you are extremely lucky to get the opportunity to train , many don't get this far.
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Blunt is Good
Hi Ops and Mops
Blunt is Good as long as you are giving me information which I'm thankful you have.
It's information we need. My future colleagues are reading this thread as well and trying get as much info as possible on the choice we have made.
It's all about information, I'm thick skinned and can take your bluntness in your reply it's worth it for the facts you have given myself and others.
From the begining of the recruitment procedure all we have had is area, area, area. 11 places going like hotcakes in airport at CATC you want to do it 12 hours to decide. People are making career decisions here on no information.
Believe my attitude is OK I've been part of succesful teams, business and sport most of my life.
What you experienced ATCO's say on here is very important to us. I know of 5 people who at the moment who are wondering if they done the right thing and will be reading this thread with great interest.
Blunt is Good as long as you are giving me information which I'm thankful you have.
It's information we need. My future colleagues are reading this thread as well and trying get as much info as possible on the choice we have made.
It's all about information, I'm thick skinned and can take your bluntness in your reply it's worth it for the facts you have given myself and others.
From the begining of the recruitment procedure all we have had is area, area, area. 11 places going like hotcakes in airport at CATC you want to do it 12 hours to decide. People are making career decisions here on no information.
Believe my attitude is OK I've been part of succesful teams, business and sport most of my life.
What you experienced ATCO's say on here is very important to us. I know of 5 people who at the moment who are wondering if they done the right thing and will be reading this thread with great interest.
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B
r all that, I've heard that the view's better out of the tower.
r all that, I've heard that the view's better out of the tower.
scotsliveit
Check your PM's
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Interesting Thread
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Strange topic this has turned into.... half of me says some need to amend attitudes to make it through their "second choice" course at the college or they may never have the chance to envy the area controllers!!!
Oh and I am an area controller who apparently isnt as enthusiastic as airport guys/gals.....
This reminds me of a postee who proclaimed his desire to move abroad having not even done his welcome meeting at Bournemouth!!!
The other side of me thinks all the whinging would make these guys fit in very well and morale is never gonna change with the atitudes instilled from before day 1.
All ill say to these folk considering their futures is why did you apply for ATC? Did you think youd get the choice anyway? Yes, I prefer area and was glad to be sent thatta way - there are benefits both ways to each side of the profession, but we're all fighting the same animal side by side so work hard and enjoy AND work hard you WILL. After all did you visit units at all? Sure youll enjoy EGPD!
If not.... join wasshisname and move abroad
Oh and I am an area controller who apparently isnt as enthusiastic as airport guys/gals.....
This reminds me of a postee who proclaimed his desire to move abroad having not even done his welcome meeting at Bournemouth!!!
The other side of me thinks all the whinging would make these guys fit in very well and morale is never gonna change with the atitudes instilled from before day 1.
All ill say to these folk considering their futures is why did you apply for ATC? Did you think youd get the choice anyway? Yes, I prefer area and was glad to be sent thatta way - there are benefits both ways to each side of the profession, but we're all fighting the same animal side by side so work hard and enjoy AND work hard you WILL. After all did you visit units at all? Sure youll enjoy EGPD!
If not.... join wasshisname and move abroad
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Scottie, if you want an honest opinion then here you go:
Over 20 Years as an ATCO, a number of airfields (both inside and outside CAS, LARS etc), area radar, instructing and now a regulator. Enjoyed almost all of it.
My advice, go to the College, learn a fascinating profession and enjoy. If you end-up at one of the very few NATS backwaters, make the most of it, take your time and, if you are still unhappy, walk away and do something else. I am guessing, but you are probably too young to worry about the whole of the rest of your life right now.
Over 20 Years as an ATCO, a number of airfields (both inside and outside CAS, LARS etc), area radar, instructing and now a regulator. Enjoyed almost all of it.
My advice, go to the College, learn a fascinating profession and enjoy. If you end-up at one of the very few NATS backwaters, make the most of it, take your time and, if you are still unhappy, walk away and do something else. I am guessing, but you are probably too young to worry about the whole of the rest of your life right now.
Ohcirrej
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I want to be at the cutting edge and I want to be severely challanged.
Believe me Scots, which ever discipline you choose, you will be challenged from day one in the college. Unfortunately, you have chosen a career that even if a decision is written in stone and locked behind very thick glass, it can and probably will change.
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I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread.. It appears that someone who plainly hasn't the faintest inkling of what ATC is about has been offered a place on a training course...........
Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ohcirrej
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Deep breaths Bren. Think of a calm blue ocean.
I can understand your frustration though.
Christ, just get on a course, pass the college and validate.
I can understand your frustration though.
Christ, just get on a course, pass the college and validate.
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With all the research into ATC that everyone surely did, it must have become apparant that LACC is not the only unit that gets staff from the College. There was another big clue to this when they made us sign the mobility agreement at the first stage of recruitment!
Granted it's unusual to ask us to decide what course we'd like so early on but if people feel so strongly against a particular part of ATC, why apply? It's made clear that you could end up doing anything.
All of us on our way to the College applied to be Student ATCOs not Area or TWR ATCOs. The guys I work with know only too well that I want to stay in the Airport side of ATC. However, they also know how happy I'd have been had I got an Area course because they know how much I want to be
an ATCO.
I'm glad that some of you have deigned to join the rest of us on the March course. We're obviously very lucky as the "shellshock" of having the "area bods looking down their noses" at us must have made it doubly hard to accept such an inferior course/career path/the job you applied for!
Seriously though, we are going to have to work so so hard to get through so please try and spend the next two months getting 100% up for it. If anyone goes to the College with attitudes that have been displayed on this thread you're going to make it harder for the rest of us not just yourself.
Granted it's unusual to ask us to decide what course we'd like so early on but if people feel so strongly against a particular part of ATC, why apply? It's made clear that you could end up doing anything.
All of us on our way to the College applied to be Student ATCOs not Area or TWR ATCOs. The guys I work with know only too well that I want to stay in the Airport side of ATC. However, they also know how happy I'd have been had I got an Area course because they know how much I want to be
an ATCO.
I'm glad that some of you have deigned to join the rest of us on the March course. We're obviously very lucky as the "shellshock" of having the "area bods looking down their noses" at us must have made it doubly hard to accept such an inferior course/career path/the job you applied for!
Seriously though, we are going to have to work so so hard to get through so please try and spend the next two months getting 100% up for it. If anyone goes to the College with attitudes that have been displayed on this thread you're going to make it harder for the rest of us not just yourself.
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I think all this talk of bad attitudes is a bit much - I really, really want to do ATC and have done for more than 10 years. It's a pain for those of us who feel we have to wait another 3/6 months, but actually overall isn't it a good thing for some? I mean all the talk is normally of people who had their hearts set on airports and then have to do area (and most seem to end up loving it). At least this means anyone really wanting airports knows they will get to do it!!!
Good luck to 'the few' starting in March - does anyone know how many of you there are?
Just think - all those planes you get to look at.
Good luck to 'the few' starting in March - does anyone know how many of you there are?
Just think - all those planes you get to look at.
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Well, I have read some threads in my time on Pprune, and some postings have been from some right half-wits. However, some of the offerings on this thread absolutely astound me. I cannot recall so many people with an obvious "attitude" problem. I wonder what on earth our recruitment people are doing letting some of these prima donnas in. Get a grip you guys. ATC is a bloody good job - IMHO the best there is. As others have remarked, it doesn't matter where you do it or in what discipline, it is always a challenge and always satisfying. And you can change horses in mid-stream without a pay cut.
All I can say is that I am damn glad I have retired from instructing, otherwise I could see myself losing my temper with some peeps around early March. However, my colleagues are very capable of spotting an obvious prat (or two).
All I can say is that I am damn glad I have retired from instructing, otherwise I could see myself losing my temper with some peeps around early March. However, my colleagues are very capable of spotting an obvious prat (or two).
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There you go guys.... from one of the best, longest standing and most respected instructors in the biz.
As Pedro says, he'd weed out the ones not commited and so will the rest of the team... seems like youve got 2 months to sort out your priorities and really decide... do you REALLY want to do the job or are you after something else?
Trust me, its hard no matter which side of the terminal youre in, I just hope NATS havent wasted time and money when some folk who didnt get this far may have been a better bet!
In 18months time youll know what we meant here and youll either move on to validation training (where some of US may have to decide if youve got IT and we could work along side you) or youll be wondering how you wasted one of the most enjoyable and lucrative careers around.
We're a big close knit team youre trying to join - maybe some could try somewhat harder. 100% is 100%
Good Luck those who sound commited.
As Pedro says, he'd weed out the ones not commited and so will the rest of the team... seems like youve got 2 months to sort out your priorities and really decide... do you REALLY want to do the job or are you after something else?
Trust me, its hard no matter which side of the terminal youre in, I just hope NATS havent wasted time and money when some folk who didnt get this far may have been a better bet!
In 18months time youll know what we meant here and youll either move on to validation training (where some of US may have to decide if youve got IT and we could work along side you) or youll be wondering how you wasted one of the most enjoyable and lucrative careers around.
We're a big close knit team youre trying to join - maybe some could try somewhat harder. 100% is 100%
Good Luck those who sound commited.
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For what it's worth, I thought I'd throw my twopenneth in...
I've seen some really helpful posts on this forum since going through the application process but in the past couple of months the recruitment-themed threads have gotten... well, depressing.
A few months ago and during the previous round of acceptances it was all optimism and looking forward to getting stuck in, now all I ever see is resentment and moaning. Myself and my colleagues on course 202, and those throughout the college and even NATS as a whole, it seems, know how annoying it can be to try to get into this line of work. We've all been there. It's a long process, things chop and change, you never really know what's going on.
But what did you expect? A walk in the park? We're talking about a career that is described by the vast majority of those who do it as 'the best job in the world'. Of course it's going to be tough getting in. And getting through college, for that matter.
I know you're all cheesed off at being 'forced to choose' but you're missing the point - you're doing the choosing! Not many previous courses had that luxury, including 202 (though luckily for us the [provisional] numbers line up with what we want). Even if the numbers didn't add up I'm pretty sure there's not a TATC among us who'd turn down ANY position as an ATCO, because it's WHAT WE WANT TO DO! You've got the golden ticket for god's sake, grab it and run with it!
I don't know, stick me on top of a hill with a radio and MATS 1&2 and I'll be perfectly happy. Where has all the enthusiasm gone?
G
I've seen some really helpful posts on this forum since going through the application process but in the past couple of months the recruitment-themed threads have gotten... well, depressing.
A few months ago and during the previous round of acceptances it was all optimism and looking forward to getting stuck in, now all I ever see is resentment and moaning. Myself and my colleagues on course 202, and those throughout the college and even NATS as a whole, it seems, know how annoying it can be to try to get into this line of work. We've all been there. It's a long process, things chop and change, you never really know what's going on.
But what did you expect? A walk in the park? We're talking about a career that is described by the vast majority of those who do it as 'the best job in the world'. Of course it's going to be tough getting in. And getting through college, for that matter.
I know you're all cheesed off at being 'forced to choose' but you're missing the point - you're doing the choosing! Not many previous courses had that luxury, including 202 (though luckily for us the [provisional] numbers line up with what we want). Even if the numbers didn't add up I'm pretty sure there's not a TATC among us who'd turn down ANY position as an ATCO, because it's WHAT WE WANT TO DO! You've got the golden ticket for god's sake, grab it and run with it!
I don't know, stick me on top of a hill with a radio and MATS 1&2 and I'll be perfectly happy. Where has all the enthusiasm gone?
G
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Most of us who have spent any time at all in this business know how quickly things change. It`s part of the territory....if you can`t cope with that, then don`t join.
When I did my course (all disciplines) we were asked where we wanted to be posted to towards the end of the 3 years. A near contemporary of mine made a bid for Hurn (CAA/Nats still provided the service then) Guess where he got posted? Sumburgh!!
My final posting was decided with typical quirkiness: I was stopped in the high street of the town nearest to my area unit by my boss and told I had 2 days to get to my posting (not my first choice). Since then, I`ve had all manner of unwelcome developments....unwanted transfers, watch changes.....you name it.
If you are any kind of Nats ATCO, you will learn to roll with the punches, and watch diligently for the "angles"; there will always be opportunities to make what seem to be negative developments work for you. Some are better than others at this, but I`ve had my successes.
My advice? Go for it! If you really want to do area work, you will probably have the opportunity later on.
When I did my course (all disciplines) we were asked where we wanted to be posted to towards the end of the 3 years. A near contemporary of mine made a bid for Hurn (CAA/Nats still provided the service then) Guess where he got posted? Sumburgh!!
My final posting was decided with typical quirkiness: I was stopped in the high street of the town nearest to my area unit by my boss and told I had 2 days to get to my posting (not my first choice). Since then, I`ve had all manner of unwelcome developments....unwanted transfers, watch changes.....you name it.
If you are any kind of Nats ATCO, you will learn to roll with the punches, and watch diligently for the "angles"; there will always be opportunities to make what seem to be negative developments work for you. Some are better than others at this, but I`ve had my successes.
My advice? Go for it! If you really want to do area work, you will probably have the opportunity later on.