Pet Peeves
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pet Peeves
Just wondering what things annoy controllers when it comes to us pilots. Aside from the obvious (not responding etc.) are there any general things which pilots often do or don't do which annoy or even infuriate?
Would be interesting to hear any comments from controllers out there, and would perhaps help my own performance as well.
Cheers,
-abra
Would be interesting to hear any comments from controllers out there, and would perhaps help my own performance as well.
Cheers,
-abra
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squawking ident before you are asked ...I just have to do it again ...
Telling me "we have him on TCAS"!!!! (and?)
Asking me the position of number x y or z for no apparent reason
I am sure there will be a few more .....but by and large there are relatively few quirks that couldn't be solved by flight deck visits/tower radar visits
regards ew
Telling me "we have him on TCAS"!!!! (and?)
Asking me the position of number x y or z for no apparent reason
I am sure there will be a few more .....but by and large there are relatively few quirks that couldn't be solved by flight deck visits/tower radar visits
regards ew
Hi abracadabra,
Asking for a RIS then turning down the volume to "chat with the student" is pretty near the top of my list
I'm sure there's plenty more annoying practices out their though.
LXGB
Asking for a RIS then turning down the volume to "chat with the student" is pretty near the top of my list
I'm sure there's plenty more annoying practices out their though.
LXGB
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It makes me cringe when I hear ATC and Pilots calling each other SIR !
But worst of all is when calling the tower "ready"with "ready in turn" ......why would you expect to be bumped up the queue other times?
But worst of all is when calling the tower "ready"with "ready in turn" ......why would you expect to be bumped up the queue other times?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without doubt- reading back the instruction, then adding "confirm?" on the end.
ALL READBACKS ARE CONFIRMED! If you didn't hear the instruction properly, say "say again".
Another, when given "track direct to xxxxx", asking "is that from present position?" Where else could it be from?
Thanks for your interest.
ALL READBACKS ARE CONFIRMED! If you didn't hear the instruction properly, say "say again".
Another, when given "track direct to xxxxx", asking "is that from present position?" Where else could it be from?
Thanks for your interest.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swanwick, England
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Calling in on the frequency without listening for a couple of seconds first really gets my goat, also, jumping in before another aircraft can reply to the instruction you've just issued.
I hate having to repeat whole transmissions for the sake of a couple of seconds.
I hate having to repeat whole transmissions for the sake of a couple of seconds.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ManchBoy
Interested to hear your comments. In comercial flying training, I've been taught to jump into the first available space to make a call. I hate it! I wait for readbacks and have been bo*****ed by several instructors for "waiting for a conversation to end". I've been told to jump in "because the ATCO will determine his priorities".
Interested to hear your comments. In comercial flying training, I've been taught to jump into the first available space to make a call. I hate it! I wait for readbacks and have been bo*****ed by several instructors for "waiting for a conversation to end". I've been told to jump in "because the ATCO will determine his priorities".
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"ABC123 descend flight level two six zero"
"Roger descending two six zero"
"ABC123 confirm thats FLIGHT LEVEL two six zero"
"Affirm descending two six zero"
What is the problem with those two little words? There are more than a couple of incidents caused by pilots descending to FL60, and when challenged replied "we were cleared descent to six zero". Sure ATC should (and I always do) confirm the FL if its unclear, but some pilots just don't get it, and the above conversation can go on for ever.
Oh yes and also responses to clearances, especially FL restrictions, with "We will do our best"
"Roger descending two six zero"
"ABC123 confirm thats FLIGHT LEVEL two six zero"
"Affirm descending two six zero"
What is the problem with those two little words? There are more than a couple of incidents caused by pilots descending to FL60, and when challenged replied "we were cleared descent to six zero". Sure ATC should (and I always do) confirm the FL if its unclear, but some pilots just don't get it, and the above conversation can go on for ever.
Oh yes and also responses to clearances, especially FL restrictions, with "We will do our best"
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hants, UK
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote
But worst of all is when calling the tower "ready"with "ready in turn" ......why would you expect to be bumped up the queue other times?
Unquote
As someone who sits on both sides of the fence: "Ready in turn" displays a certain situational awareness. You are reporting ready, but acknowledging the presence of the other aircraft. It is similar to "Ready for departure after the landing". It shows you are not raring to line up on the runway with one on final (maybe at an uncontrolled fiedl) but are ready to go when traffic permits.
2 more peeves:
"Request descent"
"Descend FL xxx"
"Is that now or pilots' discretion?"
Well you f***ing asked for it, so DO IT!! (I do know about the desire to have everything set in the MCP so it can follow the VNAV profile, but asking for descent makes the ATCO plan accordingly and they expect you do do it straight away if you ask for it).
"Request further climb"
"Negative, traffic R to L, 1000 above"
"We have him on TCAS"
Well why did you ask then, idiot?! What do you expect to get?
But worst of all is when calling the tower "ready"with "ready in turn" ......why would you expect to be bumped up the queue other times?
Unquote
As someone who sits on both sides of the fence: "Ready in turn" displays a certain situational awareness. You are reporting ready, but acknowledging the presence of the other aircraft. It is similar to "Ready for departure after the landing". It shows you are not raring to line up on the runway with one on final (maybe at an uncontrolled fiedl) but are ready to go when traffic permits.
2 more peeves:
"Request descent"
"Descend FL xxx"
"Is that now or pilots' discretion?"
Well you f***ing asked for it, so DO IT!! (I do know about the desire to have everything set in the MCP so it can follow the VNAV profile, but asking for descent makes the ATCO plan accordingly and they expect you do do it straight away if you ask for it).
"Request further climb"
"Negative, traffic R to L, 1000 above"
"We have him on TCAS"
Well why did you ask then, idiot?! What do you expect to get?
Panthera pardus puella
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: here, sometimes there
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
conditional clearances:
"after the landing xxx line/cross rwy xx"
reply - "line up/cross rwy xx after the landing"
what i want to hear is an exact read back - and so does the guy on short final!!
makes my heart rate go up for a split second til the after bit is read back - epecially if you still on the move!!
yaffs
"after the landing xxx line/cross rwy xx"
reply - "line up/cross rwy xx after the landing"
what i want to hear is an exact read back - and so does the guy on short final!!
makes my heart rate go up for a split second til the after bit is read back - epecially if you still on the move!!
yaffs
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to, but Oz ATCs used to hate it when you'd say to a Qantas acft,
ATC: " F350 not available after (insert position) due traffic, higher or lower available advise."
QFA Captain Four Bars: " Where is this traffic?"
About to hit you if you stay at your current level f@#kwit! Is what you'd like to say. These days this is a far less frequent occurence. The Qantas captains gods of the sky attitude is not nearly so common anymore.
ATC: " F350 not available after (insert position) due traffic, higher or lower available advise."
QFA Captain Four Bars: " Where is this traffic?"
About to hit you if you stay at your current level f@#kwit! Is what you'd like to say. These days this is a far less frequent occurence. The Qantas captains gods of the sky attitude is not nearly so common anymore.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stopping 5 yards beyond a rapid exit. If you can stop there why didn't you turn instead!!!
Saying you're ready, lining up and then asking for another 30 seconds. DOH!
Given clearance to decend and saying is that pilots disctretion? You don't say that when instructed to climb!
Reporting your speed as 160kts when it so obviously isn't.
I could go on and on and on.......................
Saying you're ready, lining up and then asking for another 30 seconds. DOH!
Given clearance to decend and saying is that pilots disctretion? You don't say that when instructed to climb!
Reporting your speed as 160kts when it so obviously isn't.
I could go on and on and on.......................
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. When someone in the sequence thinks he should be further up the queue and keeps the speed on to try and prove it, 250 kts at 8 miles is not to clever when you`re number 2.
2. Telling me your on your own navigation to centre fix and then requesting radar vectors at the last minute because you haven`t gone visual at Bangor.
3. Complaining about having a couple of extra track miles for 22 so I can get someone off 04 when I did the same thing to someone else when you wanted 04 two hours earlier.
4. Telling me you`re too high on final when I`ve given you at least two previous range checks.( We don`t have SSR ).
5. Accepting an immediate take off with traffic on two mile final and then lining up and waiting, Doh!
Apart from that everything is fantastic you`re doing a great job keep it up.
2. Telling me your on your own navigation to centre fix and then requesting radar vectors at the last minute because you haven`t gone visual at Bangor.
3. Complaining about having a couple of extra track miles for 22 so I can get someone off 04 when I did the same thing to someone else when you wanted 04 two hours earlier.
4. Telling me you`re too high on final when I`ve given you at least two previous range checks.( We don`t have SSR ).
5. Accepting an immediate take off with traffic on two mile final and then lining up and waiting, Doh!
Apart from that everything is fantastic you`re doing a great job keep it up.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All those pilots who call on first contact with Call Sign and g'day. If you are on climb or descent give the level you are passing and your cleared flight level. If you are cruising give your cruising flight level.
Waffle waffle on freq with things I already know like the altitude restriction on a sid. ie ... passing 6300ft on the XXX departure climbing to FL 090. An then still giving me more info that I already know cause it was on your flight plan and is on the strips like we are a B738 routing via XXX airroute to XXX destination.
Telling me things that don't help me at all "Do you know that this acft can do 250kts till 10DME". If I tell you to reduce speed I obviously don't want you to do 250 kts cause half the Boeing factory is flying ahead of you.
Calling ready in turn when you are number one at the Holding point.
Reporting that you are aproaching a holding point that you have been told to hold at when if you look out you will see an acft obviously landing or departing. Ie its weels are rolling down the tar.
Telling me you have the depature RWY in sight and are happy to use it for landing. Its the departure RWY for a reason and usually has acft waiting at the hold to use it, but these acft are never seen and the procedure we have is we will issue it for landing if there are no deps cause we know its a shorter taxi to he gate fom there.
Lots more but I'll leave those to moan about in the pub
Telling me things that don't help me at all "Do you know that this acft can do 250kts till 10DME". If I tell you to reduce speed I obviously don't want you to do 250 kts cause half the Boeing factory is flying ahead of you.
Calling ready in turn when you are number one at the Holding point.
Reporting that you are aproaching a holding point that you have been told to hold at when if you look out you will see an acft obviously landing or departing. Ie its weels are rolling down the tar.
Telling me you have the depature RWY in sight and are happy to use it for landing. Its the departure RWY for a reason and usually has acft waiting at the hold to use it, but these acft are never seen and the procedure we have is we will issue it for landing if there are no deps cause we know its a shorter taxi to he gate fom there.
Lots more but I'll leave those to moan about in the pub
)