Prospect ATCOs Pay ballot
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: North of London
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dvdr,
as I said before the model is not perfect but let's work on it. Our colleagues must believe in this or otherwise the vote would have been closer. You must also believe this in part, as you want to put figures into the model, if not a suitable alternative must be presented.
as I said before the model is not perfect but let's work on it. Our colleagues must believe in this or otherwise the vote would have been closer. You must also believe this in part, as you want to put figures into the model, if not a suitable alternative must be presented.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Well, I'll tell you this much..
I'm not looking forward to 0530 starts.
I was considering moving further away from Swanwick, but even my current half hour drive means getting up very early to get ready for the shift.
I'm not looking forward to 0530 starts.
I was considering moving further away from Swanwick, but even my current half hour drive means getting up very early to get ready for the shift.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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The result was not surprising for many at the units which were unhappy with the whole ballot. I must say i was a little surprised by the margin until i looked at just the staffing figures at some of the units. If you consider macc area at approx 100 controllers, scatc at approx 200 (inc oceanic) and possibly pf and ph at approx 100 (?) . Now i'm not saying 100% voted against at these units (i know for a fact that for some here at macc the 10% will go nicely into retirement/canada plans) but you get the picture. Now if you consider lacc (300+), tc(300+) LL,SS,BB and the college (well over200) then you can start to see why the result was never going to be in doubt. I for one have now accepted the result because i have to but i really need to stress that this was NEVER about wanting more money, just look at the facts i now have a ten% pay rise over 2 years, 2 spine points to look forward to (8%) and if people become ojti's then on paper it seems incredulous that anyone would vote no but we did because we could see that the banding/wpp was rushed, flawed and has INCREASED resentment everywhere. At macc and scatc there is now a real band 4 band 5 them and us mentality and i'm guessing those at lacc/tc will continue to see us as numpti's for not backing them over the whole re structuring.
I shall be trying my hardest to join the best paid units in the south but not because of the money (i've been trying for 2+ yrs already) but because moral at what was one of the best places to work is now shot to peices. Perhaps one of you lot bleeting about the quiet life at units up north should make you're voices heard and then perhaps we could swap!!
rant over.
I shall be trying my hardest to join the best paid units in the south but not because of the money (i've been trying for 2+ yrs already) but because moral at what was one of the best places to work is now shot to peices. Perhaps one of you lot bleeting about the quiet life at units up north should make you're voices heard and then perhaps we could swap!!
rant over.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greystation
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According to our pay briefing, not ONE application for a move to Swanwick has been presented to the management's desk within the last 12 months. If you THINK you have applied, then you want to get onto your immediate management to find out why they are blocking your potential move.
DangerousD dont speculate or approximate staffing figures, like the 'model', numbers can be manipulated to say just what you want. Likewise, dont leave out any stations, what about EGGW/EGFF/EGPF (known to be grumbling), and EGCC tower? Or EGLC/EGSS Tower/EGKK Tower/EGPD/EGLF...need I ask for more. They all get a vote, they all can throw a deal either way. The figures you have seen, are they for Employees or actual union members? The college may have "well over 200" but how many of these are students? A good proportion of students wait until they get to unit before joining so cannot vote. I hardly think that "becoming an ojti" added to the pay deal makes it 'more attractive', OJTI payments etc are part of the WPP 2nd round. Then it might make it worth it.
A select few need to swallow what has happenned and accept it, move on, and look to making adjustments/improvements in the forthcoming negotiations, rather than rant and rage aimlessly and helplessly on here.
As for support, where was ours 2 years ago, 4 years ago...........
DangerousD dont speculate or approximate staffing figures, like the 'model', numbers can be manipulated to say just what you want. Likewise, dont leave out any stations, what about EGGW/EGFF/EGPF (known to be grumbling), and EGCC tower? Or EGLC/EGSS Tower/EGKK Tower/EGPD/EGLF...need I ask for more. They all get a vote, they all can throw a deal either way. The figures you have seen, are they for Employees or actual union members? The college may have "well over 200" but how many of these are students? A good proportion of students wait until they get to unit before joining so cannot vote. I hardly think that "becoming an ojti" added to the pay deal makes it 'more attractive', OJTI payments etc are part of the WPP 2nd round. Then it might make it worth it.
A select few need to swallow what has happenned and accept it, move on, and look to making adjustments/improvements in the forthcoming negotiations, rather than rant and rage aimlessly and helplessly on here.
As for support, where was ours 2 years ago, 4 years ago...........
Watchdog Delta Hotel
Join Date: Aug 2002
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5miles
we spoke to to your ex boss mr lewis
he told us that postings were handled by hr
he only got involved when there were special circumstances were involved
so it seems it is yourselves that have been missled in your brief in this occasion
we spoke to to your ex boss mr lewis
he told us that postings were handled by hr
he only got involved when there were special circumstances were involved
so it seems it is yourselves that have been missled in your brief in this occasion
Join Date: Aug 2000
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maine,
Think about what he is saying-that he doesn't get to see a posting request before HR-absolute tosh. He will be acutely aware of the fact that people want to leave but it is in his and other managers on the unit best interest for requests not to leave the unit.
If people really want to get out why don't they approach the potential accepting unit directly then maybe the scale of the problem will be in the open.
Think about what he is saying-that he doesn't get to see a posting request before HR-absolute tosh. He will be acutely aware of the fact that people want to leave but it is in his and other managers on the unit best interest for requests not to leave the unit.
If people really want to get out why don't they approach the potential accepting unit directly then maybe the scale of the problem will be in the open.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I'm sure the issue of moving to Swanwick was raised at the Prospect briefing at MACC. The Union said that they were aware of "applications" being blocked and with the new structure in place they would then start to look hard at any that were as there would now be pay implications.
It is worth noting that a couple of people are shortly to leave here for the College but none that I know of have a sniff of a start date at NERC despite anything up to 10 posting applications being submitted (some quite some time ago). Hopefully, Prospect will be as good as their word and start "unblocking" the system ..so to speak
It is worth noting that a couple of people are shortly to leave here for the College but none that I know of have a sniff of a start date at NERC despite anything up to 10 posting applications being submitted (some quite some time ago). Hopefully, Prospect will be as good as their word and start "unblocking" the system ..so to speak
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I can't believe anyone with a real intention of moving would leave a request to move for more than a couple of months before chasing it up.
I accept a manager won't want to go below the level needed to run the unit but surely an application to move within the company is better to be dealt with agreeably knowing the attrition rate we have with Canada at present.
I accept a manager won't want to go below the level needed to run the unit but surely an application to move within the company is better to be dealt with agreeably knowing the attrition rate we have with Canada at present.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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This whole thing about "... if you want more money then move south, come and join us!" is a red herring.
If the gradings were reversed: LACC/TC were band 4 units, ScACC/MACC band 5, how many controllers currently at LACC/TC, living settled existences, kids at school etc BUT without any connections to Scotland/NW England, would willingly upsticks and move, purely for the extra money??
As far as I can see, the only ones to have voluntarily moved to my unit from LACC/TC over the past few years are ones with strong Scottish connections/ family reasons (I doubt this is just self fulfilling i.e. there are a huge number applying, but the majority don't get through because they don't have compassionate reasons, therefore we don't see any others up here).
If the gradings were reversed: LACC/TC were band 4 units, ScACC/MACC band 5, how many controllers currently at LACC/TC, living settled existences, kids at school etc BUT without any connections to Scotland/NW England, would willingly upsticks and move, purely for the extra money??
As far as I can see, the only ones to have voluntarily moved to my unit from LACC/TC over the past few years are ones with strong Scottish connections/ family reasons (I doubt this is just self fulfilling i.e. there are a huge number applying, but the majority don't get through because they don't have compassionate reasons, therefore we don't see any others up here).
Watchdog Delta Hotel
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250 again you seem to miss the point
my boss was talking about when he was your boss
to spell it out the boss at lacc would not deal with requests of people to be posted in
my boss was talking about when he was your boss
to spell it out the boss at lacc would not deal with requests of people to be posted in
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Lewis wouldn't when he was the boss. There was a lot he wouldn't deal with when he was the boss.
Call Paul Louden and tell him you have put in an application to LACC and that you want his help to effect the transfer. What harm can it do? If he knows that there are people keen enough to contact him direct he knows it will be worth his while fighting their corner.
Anyone who just writes a letter and gives up when some clerk in HR sends it back marked "refused" really doesn't want to move.
Call Paul Louden and tell him you have put in an application to LACC and that you want his help to effect the transfer. What harm can it do? If he knows that there are people keen enough to contact him direct he knows it will be worth his while fighting their corner.
Anyone who just writes a letter and gives up when some clerk in HR sends it back marked "refused" really doesn't want to move.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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With regard to requests for transfers, their is no defined system in place at the moment but the procedure is that any request will go to you're line/unit manager and he will acknowledge you're request and no doubt as in my case seem to be positive and talk about time scales and manpower issues etc, and come up with a nominal date in the future when they think they will have enough staff to release you. Unfortunately any unforseen cicumstances (ie people leaving for canada, people saying they will take early retirement rather than move to prestwick, etc) rather put these tentative and non binding timescales to pot.
With regard to whoever having not seen any requests at southern units is that they will not get sent to them until the line/unit manager sends them to him/her when he can release you. Oh and it's no good contacting you're preferred unit directly as they will not get involed with ANY direct requests for transfers.
5miles baby...... sorry if my grammer put you off of my main thread in my last posting but what i was trying to say was the total number of controllers/instructers at LL + SS + BB + Hurn would be in excess of 200 and did not include any students. The point I was trying to make was that the total number of controllers at the perceived pro units as to the anti units was approx 70ish to 30 ish, and those that hadn't been seen to be one way or the other would in all honestly probably vote in the same percentages or perhaps have more non voters...just a guess and nothing for you to get so animated over.T**T
With regard to whoever having not seen any requests at southern units is that they will not get sent to them until the line/unit manager sends them to him/her when he can release you. Oh and it's no good contacting you're preferred unit directly as they will not get involed with ANY direct requests for transfers.
5miles baby...... sorry if my grammer put you off of my main thread in my last posting but what i was trying to say was the total number of controllers/instructers at LL + SS + BB + Hurn would be in excess of 200 and did not include any students. The point I was trying to make was that the total number of controllers at the perceived pro units as to the anti units was approx 70ish to 30 ish, and those that hadn't been seen to be one way or the other would in all honestly probably vote in the same percentages or perhaps have more non voters...just a guess and nothing for you to get so animated over.T**T
