REX to transition to ATRs, start domestic jet ops

[Ex747]

The NG sim is ex- Boeing owned that is housed in the same facility

[By George]

Qantas charging $800 an hour for 737 Sim in MEL. (contracts no doubt negotiable).

[Bull_Shark]

Qantas announced yesterday that Alliance may increase their Embraer fleet to up to 18 aircraft to service thinner Qantas routes and Jetstar are adding an additional 3 aircraft from Singapore into the domestic market by the end of the year.

The Australian reported that the Qantas group domestic share dropped slightly from 70 to 68% while Virgin having ramped up capacity recently have gone from 24 to 28%.

Rex remained steady at 2%.

I wonder if Rex’s goal of capturing 38% of the domestic market still stands or will there be a rewrite of the ‘Operation Mother’ master plan?

Either way we’re long overdue for another Rex whinge on how unfair everything is.

[SHVC]

Their 2% is not commensurate with the rate they’re adding jets to the fleet that’s for sure.

[1A_Please]

Their 2% is not commensurate with the rate they’re adding jets to the fleet that’s for sure.
It's all a bit confusing. I take QF's 70% share as being the group's (inc JQ and QFLink) share of the total domestic scheduled market not just jet operations. In that case, I'd have thought REX's legacy prop services would've approached 2% of the market. Does anybody have an understanding of this data?

[PoppaJo]

The Rex numbers shouldn’t really increase, actually I would expect them to go backwards later this year. You have Jetstar 5x78s, 9xA320 from Asia, debatable if they will even return. Virgin sending in another 10. QF increased widebody ops.

The biggest challenge for Rex has yet to come. In the next 12-24 months the NEO arrives at Jetstar. The MAX starts rolling in at Virgin.

Rex are about to get squeezed and it will only yet harder next year. Rex might have ten jets but the others will add that number alone in the space a of few months very soon. Lack of scale will kill them.

[MickG0105]

It's all a bit confusing. I take QF's 70% share as being the group's (inc JQ and QFLink) share of the total domestic scheduled market not just jet operations. In that case, I'd have thought REX's legacy prop services would've approached 2% of the market. Does anybody have an understanding of this data?
In order to make sense of percentages, such as market share, you need to have a handle on the actual size of the market. Historically, the size of the domestic travel market has been relatively stable, growing at typically less than one percent per annum. That made comparing market share numbers quarter-on-quarter and even year-on-year a fairly straightforward matter.

Pre-COVID, the market was around the 5 million passengers per month mark.

The ACCC Airline Competition series of quarterly reports only started in September last year. Over their reporting period the domestic travel market has gone from barely 1 million pax per month to around 2.7 million per month for March 2021; growth of more than 2.5 times but still only about half of what it was pre-pandemic. So, you need to temper those smallish quarterly changes in market share against the much bigger changes in the size of the market (it grew by over 20 percent from 2.2 million per month in December).

And of course, market share does not equate to profit.

Regarding the Rex numbers, you're correct, pre-pandemic with just their regional operations they had 2 percent of the total domestic market. For March they had about 4 percent of the total domestic market; that included 2 percent of the larger city–larger city market. The big caveat on interpreting that data is that it captures only the first month of Rex's jet ops when they were only flying one route; they only added OOL and ADL at the end of March.

[Spring_water]

With the spill in the NP yesterday and the relationship between former leader McCormack and JS, favourable relationship, I imagine JS would have sent a letter to Barnaby’s office congratulating him on his position as party leader to continue the political relationship with Rex...

Does anyone think the change of leadership away from Wagga member and Rex Country HQ will have any effect????

[Ladloy]

With the spill in the NP yesterday and the relationship between former leader McCormack and JS, favourable relationship, I imagine JS would have sent a letter to Barnaby’s office congratulating him on his position as party leader to continue the political relationship with Rex...

Does anyone think the change of leadership away from Wagga member and Rex Country HQ will have any effect????
Zero. Sharpie and co had a good standing with Truss and Joyce. Corruption continues

[SHVC]

HS has been very quiet! When is the next rant need something to lough at.

[1A_Please]

HS has been very quiet! When is the next rant need something to lough at.
JS too!!!:ok:

[pinkpanther1]

HS has been very quiet! When is the next rant need something to lough at.

Looks like he heard you! Laugh time folks.

“Rex is one of the most efficient and best-performing airlines in the world over the last 12 years, on par with Southwest Airlines and twice as profitable as Singapore Airlines,” Rex’s Deputy Chairman says. "Understandably, Qantas is desperate to kill off Rex as it knows that it will have no chance against Rex once the latter is fully established in the domestic market.”

Full story with many dubious claims: https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/rex-qantas-dispute/amp/

[430W]

Looks like he heard you! Laugh time folks.

“Rex is one of the most efficient and best-performing airlines in the world over the last 12 years, on par with Southwest Airlines and twice as profitable as Singapore Airlines,” Rex’s Deputy Chairman says. "Understandably, Qantas is desperate to kill off Rex as it knows that it will have no chance against Rex once the latter is fully established in the domestic market.”

Full story with many dubious claims: https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/rex-qantas-dispute/amp/

I want some of whatever he is smoking!

[PammyAnderson]

So with nearly all Ex Va widebody guys been given slots and leaving in the next few weeks (despite their “trust me Rex I will not leave you and go back to virgin) 😂
that should mean a lot of new recruitment and commands! 👍🏻

[PoppaJo]

I would expect the Tiger 737 Pilot body to start making larger appearances in Rex now. Most who won’t probably get a look in at Virgin even in the long term so turnover shouldn’t be an issue.

[PammyAnderson]

I bet the 2 ex Va Checkies and Standards will be popular bringing all those guys in. I hear there are even guys on current training schools who are leaving as well. Well I guess if you pay award don’t expect loyalty. good on them 👍🏻

[Bull_Shark]

Here’s a Regional GA company (that calls themselves an Airline) with a clapped out old fleet of 30 year old propeller driven aircraft that flys into dirt strips in the middle of nowhere on government contracts, presiding over (in the words of Alan Joyce) the worst startup of any jet airline in Australia big noting themselves and trying to say they’re better and more profitable than some of the biggest, most experienced Airlines in the world like Singapore and Southwest 😂

They’re absolutely delusional!

[SHVC]

Their 737 op will almost be grounded with all these ex VA guys and gals running out the door. They didn’t have to do a 7yr bond and write a letter of thankfulness when joining.

[Keg]

Maybe ‘supply and demand’ will be on the side of 737 pilots for a period of time. I bet if Rex were paying above VOZ pay rates they wouldn’t bleed as many crew.

[PoppaJo]

Even if Virgin paid less than Rex they would still go. I would even take a demotion to get the heck out of that place. Been there done that.

[Bull_Shark]

Maybe ‘supply and demand’ will be on the side of 737 pilots for a period of time. I bet if Rex were paying above VOZ pay rates they wouldn’t bleed as many crew.

As per the famously leaked “Operation Mother”, Rex were counting on desperate and out of work 737 pilots left over from the collapse of Virgin that they could then pay “at least 10%” lower than Jetstar.

Now these crucial elements of Operation Mother that were critical to the success of the Rex domestic operation (that predicted a 38% market share), haven’t materialised and it seems like they’ve lost any direction and can only play the victim card.

It’ll be everyone else’s fault but their own!

[Double_Clutch]

I would not be leaving Rex for VA anytime soon. Those ex WB who have a slot to go back to VA, may be giving up their Rex seat despite the lack of start date at VA. Given the latest noise surrounding borders etc, this start date may be a little way off as I’m sure VA won’t be giving them a start whilst pilots remain stood down.

[PoppaJo]

Rex might have a bucket of cash at the moment but the challenge the new operators continue to have down under is the ongoing ability to actually generate sustainable and continued earnings in the medium to long term.

Tiger was negative -$50m a year from the start. Could never ever stabilise any form of earnings. Sure they had very expensive equipment however Rex has the opposite issue, cheap equipment however questionable revenue.

It’s very easy for these type of players to generate a couple of million in earnings one year, then sink to something like negative tens of millions the following year. There is going to be a lot of capacity added in FY22 and 23 by the big players which will continue to dilute any earnings opportunity Rex has.

I’m not saying it’s not completely possible, but it’s going to be bloody hard for them to make any form of return that justifies continuing the operation into the future.

The biggest challenge will be trying to stand on their own feet once this cash injection dries up. If Virgin want to play games with capacity then they have no hope. I still think they should have gone down the ultra low cost route. Take the Tiger share, however they don’t have the expensive equipment that they did so earnings shouldn’t be as challenging.

[SHVC]

Rex might have a bucket of cash at the moment but the challenge the new operators continue to have down under is the ongoing ability to actually generate sustainable and continued earnings in the medium to long term.

Tiger was negative -$50m a year from the start. Could never ever stabilise any form of earnings. Sure they had very expensive equipment however Rex has the opposite issue, cheap equipment however questionable revenue.

It’s very easy for these type of players to generate a couple of million in earnings one year, then sink to something like negative tens of millions the following year. There is going to be a lot of capacity added in FY22 and 23 by the big players which will continue to dilute any earnings opportunity Rex has.

I’m not saying it’s not completely possible, but it’s going to be bloody hard for them to make any form of return that justifies continuing the operation into the future.

The biggest challenge will be trying to stand on their own feet once this cash injection dries up. If Virgin want to play games with capacity then they have no hope. I still think they should have gone down the ultra low cost route. Take the Tiger share, however they don’t have the expensive equipment that they did so earnings shouldn’t be as challenging.

To be honest, REX may be the last Airline standing who knows! one thing is for sure QF will be loosing money like they haven't before, we will know in August, how long can QF pay for a idle international business. As for VA far out I wouldn't leave REX to go back I don't think they will survive Bain don't seem like the company to keep tipping in money in a business thats based in a country that is backwards and third world. Would Rex accept a 320 rated pilot?!.

Like I have posted before, you're kidding yourself if you think you're flying Internationally by 2023.

[Fujiroll76]

To be honest, REX may be the last Airline standing who knows! one thing is for sure QF will be loosing money like they haven't before, we will know in August, how long can QF pay for a idle international business. As for VA far out I wouldn't leave REX to go back I don't think they will survive Bain don't seem like the company to keep tipping in money in a business thats based in a country that is backwards and third world. Would Rex accept a 320 rated pilot?!.

Like I have posted before, you're kidding yourself if you think you're flying Internationally by 2023.

😂😂 Dont be a fool

[PammyAnderson]

11069605]to be honest, rex may be the last airline standing

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🙄

[No Idea Either]

Tell us SHVC, how many shares in REX do you have, and are you going to hold them for the long run.........

[ebt]

To be honest, REX may be the last Airline standing who knows! one thing is for sure QF will be loosing money like they haven't before, we will know in August, how long can QF pay for a idle international business. As for VA far out I wouldn't leave REX to go back I don't think they will survive Bain don't seem like the company to keep tipping in money in a business thats based in a country that is backwards and third world. Would Rex accept a 320 rated pilot?!.

Like I have posted before, you're kidding yourself if you think you're flying Internationally by 2023.

But remember that the Federal Government is still paying to keep the international business hibernated - how much, we will likely never know, but QF isn't carrying the can for all of that anyway. There are still many pilots and cabin crew stood down from that operation, so the cash burn cannot be horrendous. In any case, QF has been thriving domestically even with the turbulence caused by the flare ups, lockdowns and the like.

Bain know what they are buying into with VIrgin, and they have picked it up for a song, stripped out layers of management, renegotiated major contracts and have the airline on a footing more akin to Virgin Blue days. As for this "backwards and third world", that is why they bought into Virign in the first place - surivive Covid, get the airline back to its roots and the market is a license to print money.

Rex's issue is that they are going to bleed more cash than they planned with a subscale fleet, a network that is small and without the sort of brand that the other two have. The lockdowns were not a part of their plans, especially with most of the 737s based in MEL, so they will have to get a bit creative to raise some cash before they burn through PAG's swag. I would think that unlike a Bain, PAG may have less of a stomach to pump more cash into Rex if it is needed, and I don't think Kim Hai has the means to do so either.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex adds two more Boeing 737 jets as it eyes new routes https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-adds-two-more-boeing-737-jets-as-it-eyes-new-routes

The two additional leased 737s bring the Rex fleet to eight, Sharp says two more due by end of this year.

[pinkpanther1]

Rex adds two more Boeing 737 jets as it eyes new routes https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-adds-two-more-boeing-737-jets-as-it-eyes-new-routes

The two additional leased 737s bring the Rex fleet to eight, Sharp says two more due by end of this year.

I think from memory these were already agreed upon and have to be taken up.

[ACMS]

They are power by the hour…….Don’t cost much sitting around and no fuel bill either…….Can QF say the same?

[TBM-Legend]

They are power by the hour…….Don’t cost much sitting around and no fuel bill either…….Can QF say the same?


Well yes as they own quite a number of aircraft outright...what about the Hard-Licker mob?

[No Idea Either]

The hard liquor mob own half their machines and have power by the hour on the other half......can QF say the same. They may own half their machines but the other half have HUGE lease payments........

[crosscutter]

[QUOTE=can QF say the same. They may own half their machines but the other half have HUGE lease payments........[/QUOTE]

The lease repayments on the four 737s might be huge, I don’t know. The other 71 are owned and have been for a long time.

[Australopithecus]

The other crippling disadvantage that Qantas has is too many customers stinking the place up. So then they have to employ more people to serve them. Its a mug's game that Rex has cunningly avoided.

[No Idea Either]

Thanks Crosscutter, I didn’t know that QF owned their domestic fleet. But what about the wide bodies, and the upcoming (later this year?) Neo payments.

[MickG0105]

There seems to be a perception in some quarters that power-by-the-hour leases are some sort of financial panacea for low utilisation. They're not. PBH is typically a 'tuned' arrangement pitched around forecast utilisation with a cap-and-collar for anticipated variations. They blend the relatively high fixed lease component that covers the return-on-capital to the leasing company with a much smaller utilisation-based pro-rated component for (usually engine) maintenance.

Not using the aircraft doesn't obviate the requirement to make the bulk of the lease payments. However, not utilising the aircraft does have a major impact on the airlines' ability to fund the lease costs from cash flow.

There's a reason why there are a couple of orders of magnitude fewer leasing companies than airlines and at least an order of magnitude fewer leasing companies going bust when compared to airlines. They are much better at making money under any and all circumstances.

[markis10]

Thanks Crosscutter, I didn’t know that QF owned their domestic fleet. But what about the wide bodies, and the upcoming (later this year?) Neo payments.

Numbers of aircraft owned are not so important as the finance figures, ie Value of aircraft assets $610M, aircraft lease liability $830M
Source 2020 Annual report (which was when COVID only affected 1/4 of the year)

[turbantime]

Where is Rex building their simulator center in Sydney?

[ebt]

Thanks Crosscutter, I didn’t know that QF owned their domestic fleet. But what about the wide bodies, and the upcoming (later this year?) Neo payments.

Most of the 787s are owned although a couple were sold and leased back with BOC Aviation at the start of the pandemic to bring in some cash. The A380s are owned too and no bank/lessor in their right mind would touch them now, but as they are subject to large writefdowns, their ownership costs will reduce dramatically in coming years. A330s are all owned, the few that were leased from CIT (now Avolon) were returned some years ago.

As for the neos, from memory they were out in the market looking at some SLB options a while back, and as they are an in-demand asset the lessors will still put some attractive deals together. My guess is that in most cases Qantas has paid the pre-delivery payments in cash and could therefore get some value from doing SLBs if they needed to, but there are also benefits to having new jets on the balance sheet. If there are concerns about new jets sucking too much cash out they will defer their later deliveries and just rely on SLBs or finance leases to take those that they are contractually obliged to take.

[Ladloy]

Where is Rex building their simulator center in Sydney?
Branksome hotel owned by Kim Jong Un.

[markis10]

A330s are all owned, the few that were leased from CIT (now Avolon) were returned some years ago.

Four are still leased ie VH-EBS

[industry insider]

SHVC

To be honest, REX may be the last Airline standing who knows! one thing is for sure QF will be loosing money like they haven't before, we will know in August, how long can QF pay for a idle international business. As for VA far out I wouldn't leave REX to go back I don't think they will survive Bain don't seem like the company to keep tipping in money in a business thats based in a country that is backwards and third world.

Bain owns other aviation businesses with an Australian component and which also lose money in Australia and globally. Far from wanting out, Bain is both "tipping in money" and undertaking acquisitions to gain more market share.

[DanV2]

Most of the 787s are owned although a couple were sold and leased back with BOC Aviation at the start of the pandemic to bring in some cash. The A380s are owned too and no bank/lessor in their right mind would touch them now, but as they are subject to large writefdowns, their ownership costs will reduce dramatically in coming years. A330s are all owned, the few that were leased from CIT (now Avolon) were returned some years ago.

As for the neos, from memory they were out in the market looking at some SLB options a while back, and as they are an in-demand asset the lessors will still put some attractive deals together. My guess is that in most cases Qantas has paid the pre-delivery payments in cash and could therefore get some value from doing SLBs if they needed to, but there are also benefits to having new jets on the balance sheet. If there are concerns about new jets sucking too much cash out they will defer their later deliveries and just rely on SLBs or finance leases to take those that they are contractually obliged to take.

The Qantas 787s were not sold. 8 of the 11 active QF 787s were actually encumbered/mortgaged with the banks, same arrangement that SQ/EY/Borghetti did with VA's 4x 77Ws and the entire 'owned' VA 737 fleet.

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/qantas-group-secures-625-million-against-787-9s/137514.article

[No Idea Either]

Thanks ebt and DanV2 for setting the record straight....

[KRUSTY 34]

SHVC



Bain owns other aviation businesses with an Australian component and which also lose money in Australia and globally. Far from wanting out, Bain is both "tipping in money" and undertaking acquisitions to gain more market share.

After investing more than $3B in VA, Bain certainly aren’t about bug out due to the competition.

War of attrition methinks?

[Servo]

After investing more than $3B in VA, Bain certainly aren’t about bug out due to the competition.

War of attrition methinks?

The attrition is current pay and conditions, with Miss Jayne wanting the pilots to take a 27% paycut.............

[slice]

Yeah "wanting" and "getting" two different things though. Essentially they want a lower base salary with a lower overtime trigger. The devil, as always, is in the details. The details in the offer last December, in a word "sucked". Thus a 90% no vote. Negotiations have resumed.:E

[stevieboy330]

Anyone know what's going on with REX 737 recruitment?

[EPIRB]

Why would anybody want to become a pilot these days when you can earn more money in unqualified jobs or as a tradesman without the associated stress? Management would want to watch this march to the bottom on conditions because otherwise they will only be able to recruit people who aren't suitable because the smart ones are pursuing careers elsewhere or there won't be anybody to choose from.

[TheGoose21]

Hi All.
So what happens to all the ex-VA wide-body crew who have now been given slots back to Virgin? Obviously Rex management will be well aware of those positions being awarded. (and I assume it would be easy for them to see the list)
Will they ask them to leave now or let them finish their training?, knowing that they are about to do a runner.
Are those crew obliged to tell them if directly asked? Does anyone think this will mean more rex recruitment ?
cheers to all

(Predictive text mistakes fixed for the bored :)

[TimmyTee]

Their in house Saab drivers will be fairly upgraded

[TBM-Legend]

So why happens to all ex-VA crew who have given slots back there? Obviously Rex management will know those positions have been granted. (and it would be easy to find the list) Will they ask them to leave now or let them finish their training knowing they going to do a runner.
Are the rex crew obliged to even tell them if directly asked. Only ask as I am interested in the next Rex intakes.

you better smarten up on your English first my friend

[PammyAnderson]

you better smarten up on your English first my friend
another hero response to someone just asking a question ..... well done you tool :D

[kitchen bench]

you better smarten up on your English first my friend

Seeing you're giving English language advice, wouldn't that be:

You'd better smarten up on your English first, my friend.

How's your Danish as a matter of interest?

[Fliegenmong]

Curiously Danes, as do the other Scandi Countries have an amazing grasp of the English Language....and I know you were not asking me....but I actually do have a bit of Danish.....Probably not a lot of Born & Bred Aussies do.

French & Spanish are of course great to have because of their widespread use......Danish is Kinda useless outside Danmark...

[Roj approved]

..Probably not a lot of Born & Bred Aussies do.

BJORN & Bred maybe?😂😂😂

[Ladloy]

Their in house Saab drivers will be fairly upgraded
chief pilot has told saab crew they will have to resign to become a 737 driver

[rcoight]

Why would anybody want to become a pilot these days when you can earn more money in unqualified jobs or as a tradesman without the associated stress? Management would want to watch this march to the bottom on conditions because otherwise they will only be able to recruit people who aren't suitable because the smart ones are pursuing careers elsewhere or there won't be anybody to choose from.

There have always been professions that earn far more than being a pilot.

Frankly, while I’m all for looking after the pay and conditions of professional pilots I’d prefer that anyone who gets into this game just for the money went somewhere else.

[TimmyTee]

chief pilot has told saab crew they will have to resign to become a 737 driver

Seemingly a mean spirited move which is completely out of character for Rex management.

[1A_Please]

chief pilot has told saab crew they will have to resign to become a 737 driver
A fairly blatant attempt to rort Long service leave and probably illegal. If the union aren't strong enough to stand up to REX, I'd be calling an employment lawyer.

[Ladloy]

A fairly blatant attempt to rort Long service leave and probably illegal. If the union aren't strong enough to stand up to REX, I'd be calling an employment lawyer.
Everyone here says the whole operation is going in the toilet anyway, so why does it matter?

[PoppaJo]

Meanwhile let me guess. The CP gets his free 737 rating? Or does he need to resign also? I mean he needs to keep with the culture right.

Talk about leading by example. I take comfort in a senior person inside my employer who said they would never hire anyone off the Rex Management line.

I have seen Asian bottom feeding loco’s look after the staff better.

[Trevor the lover]

Or maybe Poppa, CASA requires CP to be type rated on aircraft he is chief pilot of??

[Keg]

The Chief Pilot at Qantas is not rated on the 787. The previous Qantas Chief Pilot was not rated on the 737 or the A380.

[Lookleft]

A recent Chief Pilot of Qlink didn't fly at all but still liked to be called Captain.

[Omega471]

It’s EBA time and the ML FOM is actively advising crew that the company now has initial 737 training approval. CP advising crew they’ll need to resign to get a 73 slot is absolute BS..

The market and availability of 73 crew, and the need for additional crew will be the determining factor on Saab pilot upgrades.

As with any employee, in any industry, in any country. If you’re not happy where you are, test the market and chance your arm. From my perspective the absolute best job in the world is the job you currently have…

I fly at Rex and I love the regional flying. I hope the fortune for all of you on this forum is improving.

Fly safe

[PoppaJo]

Or maybe Poppa, CASA requires CP to be type rated on aircraft he is chief pilot of??

Since when? I know MANY who soon as they get the title its the ego that send them direct to the widebody upgrade. Then you never ever seen them as they are spending too much time on the wrong side of the business!

I know one who isn’t even type rated on any types that even exist in one company!

From my perspective the absolute best job in the world is the job you currently have
Settle down buddy. Not in this industry. Chasing that greener grass is like throwing darts. Finding that green grass is a mission in itself. Your employer treats you like rubbish example Cathay, and it’s the best job?

[Bull_Shark]

If we start seeing an eventual upturn in travel here like what is happening in some regions overseas, Rex will inevitably start seeing an ‘exodus’ and ‘mass poaching’ of pilots from their turboprop and fledging jet operations.

Don’t be fooled though.

As much as we’ll see the inevitable whinging about pilots being ‘stolen’, the reality is that it’s all in the best interests of the Rex business model.

They didn’t buy a 737 sim for ease of access.

Twelve months from now if pilots (or long suffering Saab crew) want a 737 gig they’ll just need to stump up 70k for the endorsement and line training, hell they may even go down the route of offering an endorsement and a couple hundred hours on type for a bit more cash as a revolving door method of keeping the right hand seat warm.

As for the cadets, those writing the best motivational letters and picking the most weeds at AAPA might be offered the coveted chance of going straight to the 737.... for a few extra 10s of thousands of dollars and extra years of commitment!

[Trevor the lover]

My reference to being type rated was a bit of a question referring to the pommy git Tiger tried to make CP about 10 years ago. Had all 73 time and no A320 so CASA said no. I suspect if you look at QF, other management pilots are rated on the 787 and 380 so the CP is not required. If Rex has no one in management on the 737, it may well be a requirement by CASA to type rate one. Just sayin........

[No Idea Either]

So REX has approval from CASA to in-house type ratings from scratch, ie, upgrade a SAAB pilot to the 73. Pretty quick for that sort of approval if it’s true........

[Capn Rex Havoc]

So REX has approval from CASA to in-house type ratings from scratch...... and in the same post .....Pretty quick for that sort of approval if it’s true.

No idea, No Idea Either.

[No Idea Either]

Not sure if your being sarcastic Capn’, can you confirm that REX have this approval or not....

[mates rates]

They can probably do the training but not the final endorsement check out.That will have to come from a CAsA approved examiner.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Not sure if your being sarcastic Capn’, can you confirm that REX have this approval or not....

I was making a comment that on one hand you say that they "have approval from Casa" - which implies you are reporting a fact, then, in the second sentence you make a comment about it being "if true".

[No Idea Either]

Capn’

the ‘if it’s true’ should have been a give away. No worries friend, I probably should have inserted a question mark to make it a bit clearer. As you rightly said, I have no idea.

[Trevor the lover]

No idea- don't worry about it mate - Rex Havoc has less idea than anyone about everything :}

[mates rates]

They need to have an in-house endorsement training syllabus approved by CAsA.That took VA a long time to be approved.I can’t imagine Rex would get that quickly.

[turbantime]

They need to have an in-house endorsement training syllabus approved by CAsA.That took VA a long time to be approved.I can’t imagine Rex would get that quickly.
It would if all the C&T staff came from an established 737 operator who took all the IP with them. FWIW, I have no idea if Rex actually have Part 142 approval for 737 endorsement training.

[Lead Balloon]

Taking "all the IP with them" is often called "theft". But it would depend on the delta between what you think IP is versus what IP actually is, and who owns the actual IP.

[430W]

Taking "all the IP with them" is often called "theft". But it would depend on the delta between what you think IP is versus what IP actually is, and who owns the actual IP.

There is no IP. The Syllabus is freely available from Boeing and CASA would insist that be adhered to. The Standards are in the MOS and there is a CASA provided template to do the 142 approval. Put them all together and away you go. The Instructor and Examiner approvals are the individuals qualifications and they can do and work for who they choose.

[Lead Balloon]

There is IP. It's just that its owners have licensed its use on a royalty-free basis.

[MickG0105]

... freely available from Boeing ...
That would be a first.

[430W]

That would be a first.

Not if you're an operator. Been there done that with both Airbus and Boeing.

[MickG0105]

Not if you're an operator.
And do you think that there is no commercial arrangement between Boeing (and Airbus) and 'operators' that covers that access?

Access to documentation is most assuredly not free. Boeing don't plaster
This document includes proprietary information owned by The Boeing Company ... Treatment of the document and the information it contains is governed by contract with Boeing.
over their documents for no good reason.

[430W]

And do you think that there is no commercial arrangement between Boeing (and Airbus) and 'operators' that covers that access?

Access to documentation is most assuredly not free. Boeing don't plaster

over their documents for no good reason.

I'm not going to do the rounds on this.

While it is a while since I got these documents from Boeing, that is not the case with Airbus. They are freely available on Airbus World without limitation and it is in the manufacturers interest to hope any operator uses the syllabus provided and I can assure you CASA insist on it in the Part 142 approval process if you want approval to do type ratings on that particular aircraft. You can add more or move things or the order around but they will tick off each and every item in the syllabus to make sure it is covered.

In the case of Airbus there was no fee for the syllabus just as there were no fees for a lot of the other great publications they produce in the interest of safety and training. There were fees for other technical support.

In case I wasn't clear there is no IP that "VA" could claim in regards to this unless their documents were copied in toto and you just don't need to do that as everything is easily available and why would Rex open themselves up to it. I'm no fan of Rex and certainly do not believe they should have been subsidised to enable them to start this operation but even I think they are smarter than that.

End of it for me. Got better things to do.

[MickG0105]

I'm not going to do the rounds on this.

While it is a while since I got these documents from Boeing, that is not the case with Airbus. They are freely available on Airbus World without limitation and it is in the manufacturers interest to hope any operator uses the syllabus provided and I can assure you CASA insist on it in the Part 142 approval process if you want approval to do type ratings on that particular aircraft. You can add more or move things or the order around but they will tick off each and every item in the syllabus to make sure it is covered.

In the case of Airbus there was no fee for the syllabus just as there were no fees for a lot of the other great publications they produce in the interest of safety and training. There were fees for other technical support.

In case I wasn't clear there is no IP that "VA" could claim in regards to this unless their documents were copied in toto and you just don't need to do that as everything is easily available and why would Rex open themselves up to it. I'm no fan of Rex and certainly do not believe they should have been subsidised to enable them to start this operation but even I think they are smarter than that.

End of it for me. Got better things to do.
So now we're over to talking about Airbus, here's how they typically annotate their documents,
The content of this document is the property of Airbus.
It is supplied in confidence and commercial security on its contents must be maintained.
It must not be used for any purpose other than that for which it is supplied, nor may information contained in it be disclosed to unauthorized persons.
It must not be reproduced in whole or in part without permission in writing from the owners of the copyright.
Requests for reproduction of any data in this document and the media authorized for it must be addressed to Airbus.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

They are freely available on Airbus World without limitation
They might be "freely available" once you have acces to Airbus World, but in my experience access to Airbus World is fairly tightly controlled (well it is in my company anyway). I'm sure the company is paying for it either directly or indirectly and there are restrictions on what you can and can't do with the information available there.

[MickG0105]

They might be "freely available" once you have acces to Airbus World, but in my experience access to Airbus World is fairly tightly controlled (well it is in my company anyway).
That's the norm. As Airbus themselves note on their website,

... be informed that access to the portal is only granted to authorized users only. Each registered company or organization has at least one dedicated User Entity Administrator (UEA) in charge of providing access rights to future users.

In short, access is restricted to companies that have a commercial relationship with Airbus.

Saying it's 'freely available' is like saying that food at the breakfast buffet at your hotel is 'freely available' - it's available but it's been paid for.

[TheGoose21]

So I hear the mass Ex-Va widebody resignation has begun.?? If true does this mean a sudden need for 737 drivers with these guys stood down?

[SHVC]

JS has been very quiet, is he still working at Rex?

[minigundiplomat]

JS has been very quiet, is he still working at Rex?

probably sulking because his ‘free money’ tap has been replaced by Barnaby Joyce.

[No Idea Either]

probably sulking because his ‘free money’ tap has been replaced by Barnaby Joyce.

exaclty minigun, he no longer has his patron saint.............

[aroa]

Do Rex have any interest in the ex? Virgin ATRs. 4 of, parked up at YMBA out in the weather for nearly a year now.
Plenty of mynah birds taking an interest, and the mud wasps no doubt.

[PoppaJo]

Do Rex have any interest in the ex? Virgin ATRs. 4 of, parked up at YMBA out in the weather for nearly a year now.
Plenty of mynah birds taking an interest, and the mud wasps no doubt.
I noticed one recently heading north from Cairns sounded like a Euro accent at the controls. Perhaps they have already gone.

[10JQKA]

A couple here,

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/two-ex-virgin-turboprops-help-launch-ireland-s-newest-airline

[markis10]

I noticed one recently heading north from Cairns sounded like a Euro accent at the controls. Perhaps they have already gone.

FVU in flybig paint, but didn’t go to India, ended up in Canada the same time as a rumour Amazon were chasing ATRs for cargo conversions.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHFVU

[aroa]

Nup Still parked up

[turbantime]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/07/rex-says-lockdowns-have-shut-down-80-of-its-business/

[MickG0105]

189 days ago. "There’s never been a better time to expand into the domestic market."

[Bull_Shark]

Rex deputy chairman John Sharp has revealed lockdowns and border closures have shut down 80 per cent of the airline’s business.

In an interview with US news channel CNBC, Sharp also became the first major Australian airline chief to publicly call for the government to provide more assistance.

“If we don’t do something for airlines, there won’t be too many left at the end of this,” Sharp said.

It’s hit us really hard,” said Sharp on Tuesday. “It’s devastating to see the impact. It’s really knocked out the vast majority of our business.

“We’ll lose revenue and we’ll have people we’ll have to pay people who we can’t generate income from. We’re back to where we were at the beginning of the COVID pandemic.

“Unless government are prepared to assist business, a lot of business will close. If this NSW lockdown continues for any length of time, it’s been suggested it could be for up to six weeks, government assistance will be needed.


It’s like a gym franchise had decided to branch out and open a dozen more venues in Sydney with the latest and greatest equipment 18 months ago saying “it’s never been a better time to expand in the fitness industry”... and then now come out crying rivers about how much their business is hurting from COVID and lockdowns....

How is that any different to a successful regional airline who has made consistent profits using proven methods and equipment throwing the dice on a massive gamble and losing but now howling unfair because they’re not getting government assistance?

I feel for the poor Saab crews who have been thrown under the bus for the sake of ego driven fantasies.

If Rex had sailed the ship steady and kept to their core business I have no doubt they’d be in a much better position than now and probably more profitable still than most other airlines in Australia.

But with all this fancy new and expensive to maintain gym equipment they’re bleeding like no tomorrow and can’t see a way out?

[SHVC]

Don’t worry, Rex is not the only company bleeding. QF, JQ and VA are up sh!t creek without a paddle. Always seems one major city is closed at any given time. ML then it opens SY closes.

[1A_Please]

Don’t worry, Rex is not the only company bleeding. QF, JQ and VA are up sh!t creek without a paddle. Always seems one major city is closed at any given time. ML then it opens SY closes.
With their rubbish loads, REX probably makes more money when they can't fly MEL-SYD.

[No Idea Either]

It’ll all be OK.....REX can just draw down on the PAG cash, apparently they have plenty to invest.........😒😒

But, dare I say it, BAIN also said they had plenty of cash to weather the storm as well..........🥺🥺

[SHVC]

But, does QF?

[KRUSTY 34]

But, does QF?

Interesting point.

Hopefully QF’s liquidity extends beyond $150M.

[PoppaJo]

189 days ago. "There’s never been a better time to expand into the domestic market."
I don’t see why taxpayers should bail out the Jet operation.

[Wizofoz]

It’s like a gym franchise had decided to branch out and open a dozen more venues in Sydney with the latest and greatest equipment 18 months ago saying “it’s never been a better time to expand in the fitness industry”... and then now come out crying rivers about how much their business is hurting from COVID and lockdowns....

How is that any different to a successful regional airline who has made consistent profits using proven methods and equipment throwing the dice on a massive gamble and losing but now howling unfair because they’re not getting government assistance?

I feel for the poor Saab crews who have been thrown under the bus for the sake of ego driven fantasies.

If Rex had sailed the ship steady and kept to their core business I have no doubt they’d be in a much better position than now and probably more profitable still than most other airlines in Australia.

But with all this fancy new and expensive to maintain gym equipment they’re bleeding like no tomorrow and can’t see a way out?

Yep- Alliance has "Looked after the knitting" and gone from strength to strength.

[transition_alt]

Given the NSW regional network is the vast majority of Rex's Australia wide operation, I fail to see how 80% is the jet operation like a few of you are suggesting. No, Rex cannot draw down on the PAG cash for the turboprop operation. Besides, the jets don't need support. There's still over $100 million readily available to Rex for 737 purposes ONLY.

This lockdown is affecting the Saab pilots the most. The 737 is still operating, and so are the crew, albeit the Gold Coast / Melbourne route ex Sydney is reduced. In fact, the Saab NSW network consists over 1/3 of the total Rex pilot base (currently. Should be more) and close to 70% of total flights in pre-COVID times.

What is often forgotten about, both internally and by everyone in this thread, is the turboprop pilots. Those guys/girls are the ones supporting the business and have done so throughout COVID. Now they're also fighting to get money owed to them by Rex from 2018 and onwards while worried about whether they'll be stood down without pay again. Rex 737 pilots have been on full pay from the beginning, even for months whilst JobKeeper was being paid to the Saab pilots.

[Bull_Shark]

Don’t worry, Rex is not the only company bleeding. QF, JQ and VA are up sh!t creek without a paddle. Always seems one major city is closed at any given time. ML then it opens SY closes.

Yes absolutely agree that all airlines are suffering. But when Rex use tax payers money that was there to retain staff and essential routes on bold expansion plans to take on other airlines that are hurting as much if not more, there’s no sympathy especially when they continue to moan about needing more handouts and how hard they have it.

Given the NSW regional network is the vast majority of Rex's Australia wide operation, I fail to see how 80% is the jet operation like a few of you are suggesting.

NSW is a large part of the Rex network but don’t forget they fly in every state and territory except the NT. How are the regional operations going in QLD, VIC, SA, WA and TAS? I’m sure that while not great, with some of those routes being subsided and intrastate travel usually unrestricted there must be some market?

Don’t forget that Rex also run Air Ambulance contracts and significant mining charter with Pelair.

All once again showing the utter hypocrisy and nonsense when Rex jump and down crying poor because their Jet operation isn’t succeeding like they thought it would.

Absolutely right about the Saab crews though, they’ve been the backbone and reason for the success of the airline yet are now being left to hang. Great to see the company looking out for their most loyal staff 🙄

[Ladloy]

Current Saab EBA offering is a 5k one off payment and a pay freeze until the last year of the agreement where it increases by CPI.

EXECUTIVES TOOK THEIR BONUS LAST YEAR, MAKING MORE THAN THE 18/19 FY!

[Bull_Shark]

Current Saab EBA offering is a 5k one off payment and a pay freeze until the last year of the agreement where it increases by CPI.

EXECUTIVES TOOK THEIR BONUS LAST YEAR, MAKING MORE THAN THE 18/19 FY!

Under the ASX share price information check out the hundreds of thousands of shares that have been dished out to senior management and the chief pilot a couple of weeks ago...

[transition_alt]

Current Saab EBA offering is a 5k one off payment and a pay freeze until the last year of the agreement where it increases by CPI.

EXECUTIVES TOOK THEIR BONUS LAST YEAR, MAKING MORE THAN THE 18/19 FY!

Highway robbery!

A couple of guys at Rex were saying the pilots are owed an average of $10,000 each in back pay and $12k in pay rises

[1A_Please]

Highway robbery!

A couple of guys at Rex were saying the pilots are owed an average of $10,000 each in back pay and $12k in pay rises
It's only a rort if you're not in on it.

[MickG0105]

Under the ASX share price information check out the hundreds of thousands of shares that have been dished out to senior management and the chief pilot a couple of weeks ago...
It's a few more than a hundred thousand shares. It's a bit confusing as to exactly how many shares might be up for offer - the notification variously say 10.2 million and no more than 10 million shares. Of note, Sharpie stands to pocket over 1.3 million shares (an allocation twice that of the next most generous allocation) as determined by 'both objective and subjective criteria'. 'subjective criteria' being a phrase you generally do not want to see in anything relating to executive remuneration.

[markis10]

Stories and quotes of 80% loss of income but no ASX announcement, another speeding fine/please explain?

[1A_Please]

Rex is suspending all 737 operations and most Saab operations except WA due to NSW, Victorian and SA lockdowns.

[MickG0105]

Rex is suspending all 737 operations and most Saab operations except WA due to NSW, Victorian and SA lockdowns.
It doesn't look like they've had any 737 ops since the 18th when -REX flew OOL-MEL. -RQP and -RYU haven't flown since the 17th, -RQC last flew on the 16th, -RQG's last flight was on the 13th and -PAG hasn't flown since the 11th.

But you know what they say? There's never been a better time to expand into the domestic market!

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex suspends all Boeing 737 flights due to border closures, lockdowns

Rex has suspended all Boeing 737 flights with immediate effect, while also reducing the frequency of its regional flights, as city lockdowns and state border closures continue to hammer air travel.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-suspends-boeing-737-flights-cuts-regional-services

[bangbounceboeing]

The fat lady is warming up her vocal cords

[MelbourneFlyer]

Well, if nothing else this gives John Sharp another reason to blame for Rex's FY failure. It was reported a while back that Rex had downgraded FY21 forecasts from slim profit to breakeven to a US$11.6m loss, that loss will almost certainly increase. The bad news is that this also gives Sharp and co an acceptable scapegoat rather than being held directly responsible for the short-sighted move into B737s.

[SHVC]

But he said there has been no better time to enter the Jet age! Surely he would of allowed for the odd border closures due covid.

[Paragraph377]

But he said there has been no better time to enter the Jet age! Surely he would of allowed for the odd border closures due covid.
The 737 operation was doomed the moment the announcement was made. Sharp can blame COVID, predatory actions by Qantas, airport fees and charges and even the weather as much as he wants to. The fact is this; it was a bad plan. A plan doomed to fail, and it is failing spectacularly. Narcissists like Sharp will always blame everybody else for their failures. It’s the nature of who they are. But a smart shareholder should be able to see through the smoke and mirrors and hold the Board Chair and CEO to account for this colossal blunder. The 737’s final flight is a matter of when, not if.

[1A_Please]

The 737 operation was doomed the moment the announcement was made. Sharp can blame COVID, predatory actions by Qantas, airport fees and charges and even the weather as much as he wants to. The fact is this; it was a bad plan. A plan doomed to fail, and it is failing spectacularly. Narcissists like Sharp will always blame everybody else for their failures. It’s the nature of who they are. But a smart shareholder should be able to see through the smoke and mirrors and hold the Board Chair and CEO to account for this colossal blunder. The 737’s final flight is a matter of when, not if.
Sadly true. The business case was built around there being no VA so ZL able to move into that vacated market space like DJ did when AN collapsed 20 years ago. As soon as it became obvious that VA would survive, ZL's board should've realised their folly and folded. That they didn't is a massive failure of corporate governance.

[Busbitch]

It's a great shame. REX is a great airline with some of the best in the business working for them. As I understand it the 737 is a separate company to the SAAB operation so even if the wrap up the 737 gig the rest will remain, lets hope so. In spite of all the hate out there, lots of great people work there & I for one wish em well!

[Lookleft]

There was also the premise that all the domestic carriers made about Covid being done and dusted by March 2021. That hasn't worked out for any of them.

[Turnleft080]

It's a great shame. REX is a great airline with some of the best in the business working for them. As I understand it the 737 is a separate company to the SAAB operation so even if the wrap up the 737 gig the rest will remain, lets hope so. In spite of all the hate out there, lots of great people work there & I for one wish em well!
Beware the sleeping Tiger. If it does turn to ****, then as we know in aviation, anything is possible and expect the unexpected.
VA still have that AOC on ice. It depends on Rex owners, share holders, PAG if they want to sell the 737 operation to Bain.
Buy the operation save the crews, save the jobs and knocks out the opposition. Long shot yes, though something must give.

[PoppaJo]

Tiger has never made any money and it’s not about to start making money now either. Jetstar will hold its ground regardless.

Just be done with Tiger. Jetstar has this market covered and is a formidable competitor to anyone in that space.

Virgin needs to just worry about two things and that’s Virgin and Virgin only, and Virgin making positive earnings. No distractions.

[1A_Please]

Beware the sleeping Tiger. If it does turn to ****, then as we know in aviation, anything is possible and expect the unexpected.
VA still have that AOC on ice. It depends on Rex owners, share holders, PAG if they want to sell the 737 operation to Bain.
Buy the operation save the crews, save the jobs and knocks out the opposition. Long shot yes, though something must give.
Bain is very disciplined about how they manage their VA investment. They have resisted being rushed into making decisions about lounges, catering etc. They are not likely to deviate now and be distracted into saving ZL's jet operation. It suits them for ZL to leave the market which will allow fares to stabilise (upwards) once the domestic borders reopen.

[MickG0105]

Bain is very disciplined about how they manage their VA investment. They have resisted being rushed into making decisions about lounges, catering etc. They are not likely to deviate now and be distracted into saving ZL's jet operation. It suits them for ZL to leave the market which will allow fares to stabilise (upwards) once the domestic borders reopen.
Spot on, for all of Sharpie's carry on about Qantas, unsurprisingly he failed to grasp that he really wasn't competing with QF. If Rex were going to take market share, it was more likely going to come from VA. And VA seemed to be making all the right responses to anything that Rex threw up. Meanwhile, having raised AJ's ire, QF started squeezing Rex on its bread-and-butter regional routes.

There's no shortage of literature on the downsides of trying to fight wars on two fronts.

It was a bit like watching the Wagga Raiders Juniors going up against the Storm and the Roosters.

[rodney rude]

Geez Busbitch - should you really be on here saying "nice" things and showing some compassion? Best be careful
not following the lead of MickG, SHVC, bounceboeing and Paragraph 337 and the others with their incredibly repetitive and quite frankly
totally boring negativity. We get the idea you guys - you hate Rex and Sharp and you are all airline business experts. Give it a break.

Thats just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Or do you want me to log on every day and say the same thing over and over and over
like you guys with nothing better to do

[MickG0105]

Geez Busbitch - should you really be on here saying "nice" things and showing some compassion? Best be careful
not following the lead of MickG, SHVC, bounceboeing and Paragraph 337 and the others with their incredibly repetitive and quite frankly
totally boring negativity. We get the idea you guys - you hate Rex and Sharp and you are all airline business experts. Give it a break.

Thats just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Or do you want me to log on every day and say the same thing over and over and over
like you guys with nothing better to do
Geez, didn't realise there was some sort of quota on posts. I've made 11 since the end of May and half of those were entirely unrelated to Rex and its management rather they addressed interpreting the ACCC report on competition in the sector, the structure of power-by-the-hour leases, and an extended exchange on whether manufacturer documentation is freely available. As to saying the same thing over and over and over, each of my other posts about Rex addressed a different topic, once each time - finances, exec share plan, most recent flights by the fleet, and competition.

For the record, I hate neither Rex or John Sharp. I think that Sharp is a loud-mouth whinger and that Rex's management have seriously misjudged this expansion program (that's just my opinion and I'm entitled to it) but I don't hate either.

That said, if you don't like seeing "There's never been a better time to expand into the domestic market" trotted out, then best look away - that's unlikely to be forgotten any time soon.

[Paragraph377]

Thats just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Or do you want me to log on every day and say the same thing over and over and over like you guys with nothing better to do
You don’t like other peoples posts? Then don’t read them. Simple. You are probably the same sook that criticises people’s grammar. It’s a blog, get it? People post comments. Some of those comments might not align with your own personal beliefs. Tough titties.

And for the record, I have no issue with REX as an entity nor the pilot group. It’s the capitalist grubs like the majority of CEO’s and Board Directors, along with political vermin that I dislike.

[SHVC]

What they said.

[Beer Baron]

VA still have that AOC on ice. It depends on Rex owners, share holders, PAG if they want to sell the 737 operation to Bain.
Buy the operation save the crews, save the jobs and knocks out the opposition.
I’ve seen a few posters postulate such an outcome but I find the notion a bit bizarre. Part of the reason Virgin went bust was because they went out buying up multiple other operators rather than concentrating on their own core business which was profitable.
Why would they want to recreate past mistakes?

Additionally, they already have a LCC AOC
and access to many 737’s and crew, what benefit would there be in buying a dud business off Rex?

[PoppaJo]

Can the leasing companies say offer these Jets to Virgin? A use it or lose it sort of clause for Rex.

3/6 of these VA would want back are only 11 years old.

[DanV2]

^^

I'm guessing that even VA/Bain does not want most if not all those older jets back. A few of them were the most unreliable of the fleet when they were with VA.

[PoppaJo]

BZG/VUV/VUU are only 2010 builds.

The other three I wouldn’t touch.

[SHVC]

By the looks of it Rex might not touch them again either.

[turbantime]

Why would VA bother with those old machines? Strong rumours of Max 8 and 787 orders forthcoming. Max for short-haul international and 787 to restart US and Japan ops. They’re working on the timing, in conjunction with federal government, as it is contingent on border openings.

They’ve been busy certifying all sim instructors in the Max sim (full DTR) so that when the announcement is made, the training program can be rolled out expeditiously.

[1A_Please]

Why would VA bother with those old machines? Strong rumours of Max 8 and 787 orders forthcoming. Max for short-haul international and 787 to restart US and Japan ops. They’re working on the timing, in conjunction with federal government, as it is contingent on border openings.

They’ve been busy certifying all sim instructors in the Max sim (full DTR) so that when the announcement is made, the training program can be rolled out expeditiously.
I'd be surprised if VA were ordering MAX8s given they only cancelled their order for them last December. They obviously are preparing for their MAX10s which are due in about 2 years but it is hard to see what MAX8s offer them given they now have a fairly young fleet of 73Ws and there is little point having capacity in excess of demand given current uncertainties.

Rumours of a 787 order would appear to be exactly that. Bain are very disciplined in how they realise their investment in VA and long-haul international flying would seem to be a fair way into the future for them. I wouldn't expect to see any 787s for VA before 2025 at the earliest.

[minigundiplomat]

By the looks of it Rex might not touch them again either.

Quite.

These lockdowns provide JS and the Singaporeans an excuse to exit the jet market before anymore of the $150m is thrown into the gurgler. It also allows them to blame the fed/state government rather than their own commercial vandalism.

[Icarus2001]

VA still have that AOC on ice. It depends on Rex owners, share holders, PAG if they want to sell the 737 operation to Bain.
Buy the operation save the crews, save the jobs and knocks out the opposition. Long shot yes, though something must give.

Which opposition would it knock out?

There is no operation to sell, all grounded and before that burning cash every week.

I have a great business to sell you though…

[MickG0105]

Can the leasing companies say offer these Jets to Virgin?
Only if Rex were to default on their lease in such a fashion that repossession was triggered. Unremedied non-payment of rent is the typical 'termination event' that would lead to repossession.

A use it or lose it sort of clause for Rex.

The leasing companies really couldn't give a tinker's cuss as to whether the lessee is using the aircraft or not so long as rent is being paid as it falls due and asset value is being maintained. Non-use wouldn't be an event of default in of itself; non-use and failure to properly maintain the aircraft per the manufacture's calendar-based schedules and/or preservation guidance most certainly would be.

[big buddah]

Only if Rex were to default on their lease in such a fashion that repossession was triggered. Unremedied non-payment of rent is the typical 'termination event' that would lead to repossession.


The leasing companies really couldn't give a tinker's cuss as to whether the lessee is using the aircraft or not so long as rent is being paid as it falls due and asset value is being maintained. Non-use wouldn't be an event of default in of itself; non-use and failure to properly maintain the aircraft per the manufacture's calendar-based schedules and/or preservation guidance most certainly would be.

You might find if they’re paying PBH then leasing companies do mind. Zero return on assets while not flying.

[MickG0105]

You might find if they’re paying PBH then leasing companies do mind. Zero return on assets while not flying.
That's not how power-by-the-hour leases are structured. I've addressed that previously.

There seems to be a perception in some quarters that power-by-the-hour leases are some sort of financial panacea for low utilisation. They're not. PBH is typically a 'tuned' arrangement pitched around forecast utilisation with a cap-and-collar for anticipated variations. They blend the relatively high fixed lease component that covers the return-on-capital to the leasing company with a much smaller utilisation-based pro-rated component for (usually engine) maintenance.

Not using the aircraft doesn't obviate the requirement to make the bulk of the lease payments. However, not utilising the aircraft does have a major impact on the airlines' ability to fund the lease costs from cash flow.

There's a reason why there are a couple of orders of magnitude fewer leasing companies than airlines and at least an order of magnitude fewer leasing companies going bust when compared to airlines. They are much better at making money under any and all circumstances.
​​​​​​​

[KRUSTY 34]

Pretty sure it's a temporary measure until borders reopen. Sounds like a prudent business decision to me. Seems like some people can't wait for Rex to fail. Can't we just acknowledge that many of their crew went through redundancy, unemployment and all the stress that accompanies it, only 18 months ago.

Couldn’t agree more.

One potentially bright spot for the current/ex VA Jet crew, is that if they were on the VA 737 EBA when they were made redundant, they should have 5 years right of return when their number on the seniority list comes up.

[No Idea Either]

Krusty

No one on the VAA 737 was made redundant (a few voluntaries though and they are excluded from the ‘right of return’). Only the wide body, ATR, VAI 737 and Tiger (all seperate eba’s to the VAA 737 eba) and yes they all have a right of return for five years according to their ‘seniority’ but then they lose the ‘right’ but will still be on the list and ‘presumably’ recalled before anyone off the street for a few more years. Hope it all works out for them all……..

[KRUSTY 34]

Thanks NIE.

I know around 15 have recently left the REX Jet operation to return to VA. I assumed it was under the redundancy provisions.

[No Idea Either]

Yes, I think nearly all the initial 88 returnees, including the now ex-Rex cohort, were pretty much off the VA widebodies (tripler and 330.) Pretty much all of them had significant 73 time from the early days so getting up to speed isn’t a problem.

[snakeslugger]

Thanks NIE.

I know around 15 have recently left the REX Jet operation to return to VA. I assumed it was under the redundancy provisions.

Not sure where your 15 came from, the bid import only had 6 ex REX returning VA.

[KRUSTY 34]

Not sure where your 15 came from, the bid import only had 6 ex REX returning VA.

Probably a poor choice of words on my part. I should’ve said heard of 15, rather than know of.

It is a rumour network after all.

[SHVC]

Rex might be able to fire up their all lucrative ML-ADL flights soon. Looking good hopefully these two states get open and on with it.

[TimmyTee]

Is it still SOP for States to wait 14 days after the last case before opening up? (Or 28 days out west)

[PoppaJo]

Is it still SOP for States to wait 14 days after the last case before opening up? (Or 28 days out west)
Seems to be around a week however I will fall
over if any state opens up to NSW without waiting 28 days (If that day ever comes)

[Turnleft080]

Seems to be around a week however I will fall
over if any state opens up to NSW without waiting 28 days (If that day ever comes)
VIC/SA border should open up immediately, just like my hypothetical all the forces are in equilibrium.

[SHVC]

McClown went on a rant today actually embarrassing for a leader to carry on like the way he did thinking he is the messiah and all, anyway he made a point the good boys and girls of Vic,SA and QLD will be allowed in to WA sooner than they think. NSW the very naughty state that won’t do as McClown wants is exiled for the foreseeable future.

[SOPS]

McClown went on a rant today actually embarrassing for a leader to carry on like the way he did thinking he is the messiah and all, anyway he made a point the good boys and girls of Vic,SA and QLD will be allowed in to WA sooner than they think. NSW the very naughty state that won’t do as McClown wants is exiled for the foreseeable future..

And looking from the West, at how NSW does it different with a Gold Standard.. I’m happy that NSW is not welcome in the West.

[SHVC]

I’m glad we never used the draconian method the west uses. Imagine doing lockdowns every other week. NSW will come out of this, like we always do. It will just take a little longer this time.
Instead of these other idiot premiers bagging Gladys out they could, you know step up take all the internationals take the pressure off. Dan he took the easy option just stops it. McGoose could of actually looked good no reason WA can’t take NSW share of internationals. Australia is F$&ed seriously the bickering and carrying on is toxic at the very top all they way to the bottom. We are a very sad nation and we don’t even realize it.

[ScepticalOptomist]

I’m glad we never used the draconian method the west uses. Imagine doing lockdowns every other week. NSW will come out of this, like we always do. It will just take a little longer this time.
Instead of these other idiot premiers bagging Gladys out they could, you know step up take all the internationals take the pressure off. Dan he took the easy option just stops it. McGoose could of actually looked good no reason WA can’t take NSW share of internationals. Australia is F$&ed seriously the bickering and carrying on is toxic at the very top all they way to the bottom. We are a very sad nation and we don’t even realize it.

Couldn’t agree more - the more I hear from people I know in WA the more they seem like a parochial bunch of red-necks.

[MickG0105]

From today's The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/battle-for-queensland-air-routes-turns-ugly/news-story/7c300ace3ea4e71733e060d28234c850)

Battle for Queensland air routes turns uglyBy ROBYN IRONSIDE, AVIATION WRITER
JULY 27, 2021

A public stoush has erupted between Regional Express airlines and Queensland MP Robbie Katter over the operation of regulated air routes in the state.

The trigger was an announcement by Cairns-based airline Skytrans that it would fight Rex for the contract to fly government-subsidised routes using their 36-seater Dash-8s from 2022.

Speaking out in favour of Skytrans, Mr Katter, whose seat of Traeger covers many of the communities served by the routes, said performance standards had dropped since Rex took over the flights and complaints had increased.

He said the problem stemmed from Rex’s fleet of Saab 340s which “were built for the northern hemisphere” and sometimes skipped towns if they were running late, blaming “kangaroos on the airstrip”.

“The Saabs are a beautiful aircraft but they’re not built for these milk runs,” Mr Katter said on Monday. “The ignition system overheats in the hot conditions and they’re often stuck on the tarmac for half an hour, waiting for the battery to cool down.”

Mr Katter also questioned Rex’s commitment to the regional communities their flights served, pointing out Skytrans “sponsored everything”.

“Rex is invisible as a corporate citizen. They provide some sponsorship for the (Mt Isa) rodeo and that’s all,” he said.

The remarks infuriated Rex deputy chairman John Sharp who fired off an open letter to Queensland communities on Monday accusing Mr Katter of irresponsible and defamatory comments.

Mr Sharp accused Mr Katter of bias and said Rex was “compelled to set the record straight”.

“Rex is extremely proud of its track record over the last 12 years serving rural and regional Queensland, and believes it has carried out its obligations to the Queensland Government and to the 23 regional Queensland communities in an exemplary manner,” wrote Mr Sharp.

“For reasons best known to himself, Mr Katter has chosen to tarnish Rex’s reputation through baseless allegations. We will be writing to the Member for Traeger to challenge him to back up his allegations against Rex with concrete evidence or else make an apology for his irresponsible comments.”

The letter included statistics highlighting Rex’s strong on-time performance average for the regulate routes, and claimed the majority of passengers paid under $200 a flight.

With the Covid pandemic ravaging Rex’s balance sheet, the regulated routes contract was among one of the few certainties for the carrier.

The Singapore-owned, publicly listed airline was expecting to slump to a $15 million statutory before tax loss for the 2021 financial despite managing a $9.9 million profit in the first half.

Rex currently has suspended operations by its six Boeing 737s which were leased to compete against Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin Australia on capital city and Gold Coast routes.

Mr Katter suggested that perhaps Rex should have used the funds to improve its regional services rather than trying to expand in the pandemic. The contract for regulated routes will be decided before the end of the year.



“The ignition system overheats in the hot conditions and they’re often stuck on the tarmac for half an hour, waiting for the battery to cool down.”. - Is that really an issue with the 340s?

[Marauder]

Even in the hottest of Australian summer, even without ground power, never had a problem

[Brakerider]

From today's The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/battle-for-queensland-air-routes-turns-ugly/news-story/7c300ace3ea4e71733e060d28234c850)



“The ignition system overheats in the hot conditions and they’re often stuck on the tarmac for half an hour, waiting for the battery to cool down.”. - Is that really an issue with the 340s?

Depends if a GPU is available or not. Thus the single engine turn arounds in a lot of ports.

[Lookleft]

John Sharp of all people should know what lengths a politician will go to to help out mates in the aviation industry. When Katter the younger is done with politics which Board of Directors will he be a part of?

[MickG0105]

Even in the hottest of Australian summer, even without ground power, never had a problem
Depends if a GPU is available or not. Thus the single engine turn arounds in a lot of ports.

​​​​​​​Thank you both, much appreciated.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Couldn’t agree more - the more I hear from people I know in WA the more they seem like a parochial bunch of red-necks.

Steady on! It very much depends on whether you were born here or not. (North or South of the river seems to matter a lot too) Anyone who moved to the West has the benefit of a more worldly outlook shall we say? McGowan, who is not a Sandgroper, says some stuff that leaves me scratching my head but then he is a politician.

[Chronic Snoozer]

McClown went on a rant today actually embarrassing for a leader to carry on like the way he did thinking he is the messiah and all, anyway he made a point the good boys and girls of Vic,SA and QLD will be allowed in to WA sooner than they think. NSW the very naughty state that won’t do as McClown wants is exiled for the foreseeable future.

Yes, that rant may not age well when you see what the health experts say. Having said that, Gladys asked for it by taking the same position in June. But perhaps we leave to the epidemiologists?

Pfizer jabs should go to where they are best utiilised (https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-news-live-updates-victoria-lockdown-likely-to-be-lifted-as-nsw-covid-cases-continue-to-soar-20210726-p58d26.html?post=p52k1s#p52k1s)

[crosscutter]

IF…the NSW objective was to get numbers of infectious in the community down to zero, then McClown is correct. But NSW people have had hot air blown up them for months so getting a Vic style lockdown was always going to be impossible. Follow the epidemiologists? Worldwide they say essentially the same thing…they have for months and months…but that’s not want people want to hear because mask wearing infringes their personal f#cking rights…or it’s just like the flu…or I’m losing my house.

The politics of COVID has f#cked NSW and why more people in our industry aren’t infuriated with the half arse response is beyond me. Instead it appears some people on PPRUNE have more in common with the ‘Freedom’ protesters…enabled by idiotic politicians and sky news dinosaurs

Time for a lie down.

[TBM-Legend]

Thank you both, much appreciated.


​​​​​​​Saab 340 start temp limit 47C and aircraft has a Hotel mode for ground ops including aircon...

[transition_alt]

Saab 340 start temp limit 47C and aircraft has a Hotel mode for ground ops including aircon...

The take-off performance chart limit is 47C.

The battery temp limit was 57C, where above is only approved for GPU start. Above 71C batt temp no start at all.

They moved from Ni-Cad to lead acid batteries a few years ago. Those limits no longer apply with the now lead acid installation as there is no thermal runway risk.

[Bull_Shark]

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/rex-mulls-legal-options-in-qantas-dogfight-20210728-p58dkl

It’s the story that just keeps giving 🙄

Rex once again mulling legal action against Qantas 😅

[minigundiplomat]

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/rex-mulls-legal-options-in-qantas-dogfight-20210728-p58dkl

It’s the story that just keeps giving 🙄

Rex once again mulling legal action against Qantas 😅

Thats the problem with employing disgraced politicians - eventually they run out of other peoples money.

[MickG0105]

Saab 340 start temp limit 47C and aircraft has a Hotel mode for ground ops including aircon...​​​​​​​
The take-off performance chart limit is 47C.

The battery temp limit was 57C, where above is only approved for GPU start. Above 71C batt temp no start at all.

They moved from Ni-Cad to lead acid batteries a few years ago. Those limits no longer apply with the now lead acid installation as there is no thermal runway risk.
Thank you for those clarifications.

​​​​​​​Just by the bye, the Dash-8s and ATRs would have to have similar temperature limits wouldn't they?

[pinkpanther1]

Dash is 48.9C

[Roj approved]

From today's The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/battle-for-queensland-air-routes-turns-ugly/news-story/7c300ace3ea4e71733e060d28234c850)



“The ignition system overheats in the hot conditions and they’re often stuck on the tarmac for half an hour, waiting for the battery to cool down.”. - Is that really an issue with the 340s?

It’s like “ Deja vu”, back in about 2002 maybe, I was flying “Big Hat Bob” around NW QLD and Gulf country and he was spouting the virtues of Saab 340’s in the outback versus the J32. He has a long standing relationship with one of the SkyTrans directors.

[MickG0105]

Dash is 48.9C
Muchas gracias.

[EPIRB]

Any truth that Rex have recently interviewed for flight attendant positions in Brisbane with a start date of August 9?

[PoppaJo]

And flying to where? Circuits at BNE? Joyflights?

[Going Nowhere]

They have a Saab base there so maybe for that?

[Omega471]

Brisbane airports advanced schedules show Rex flights for both ML & SY. ZL209 & ZL309.

[MickG0105]

Brisbane airports advanced schedules show Rex flights for both ML & SY. ZL209 & ZL309.
Last month Rex had this, let's just call it 'optimistic', schedule for ex-BNE

ZL209 MEL 0520
ZL309 SYD 0930
ZL227 MEL 1020
ZL329 SYD 1130
ZL339 SYD 1430
ZL239 MEL 1540
ZL349 SYD 1630
ZL267 MEL 1720
ZL367 SYD 1830
ZL387 SYD 1930
ZL291 MEL 2050

It was meant to start the WC 23 August.

They have now just slid that entire schedule to the right by another month to notionally start WC 20 September.

Darryl Kerrigan would probably have a view on this.

[rodney rude]

Oh Look - its Mick "I've only made a few posts" G0105 with yet another negative post. Welcome back mate - it's been a few hours!

[MickG0105]

Oh Look - its Mick "I've only made a few posts" G0105 with yet another negative post. Welcome back mate - it's been a few hours!
Thanks for taking time out to raise the standard of the discussion.

[Bull_Shark]

Oh Look - its Mick "I've only made a few posts" G0105 with yet another negative post. Welcome back mate - it's been a few hours!

Much the same as

“Oh look, it’s John “I’ve only whinged a few times every month this year, but now I’m back with another negative press release about how hard done by Rex are and how much we hate Qantas”

[outnabout]

This will end well.......Rex Appoints Legal Team to Pursue Legal Remedies for Qantas Anti Competitive Behaviour (https://www.rex.com.au/BlobViewer/BlobViewer.aspx?attachtype=MR&filename=4D782B556B2F466D4E4738546561706E2F744D4C4E6B2B53775 3416639597057707A48595872504557475941786B3039535645664773633 15666436A454470676148522F4E777647685559373534417941484262367 5424B345853517143424350365A5A766A66586859536A594E2F686A644B3 36D5756665932375172576A73)02 August 2021

Rex today announced the appointment of market-leading litigation law firm Clayton Utz to pursue all legal remedies in response to Qantas' predatory and anti-competitive behaviour. Mr Fred Prickett will be leading the Clayton Utz litigation team, joined by Rex’s other competition advisors Ms Rachel Trindade and former Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) Commissioner Dr Rhonda Smith. Rex’s legal team will explore all legal avenues to stop Qantas from abusing its market position in order to push its competitors out.

[PoppaJo]

What exactly do they want? Qantas you may not increase your schedule for the upcoming school holidays because Rex needs to make money.

Jetstar how dare you put 787s on domestic keep them parked up in the sand burning cash and keeping your employees grounded.

Virgin you cannot put your MAX10 into Sydney as your taking away our passengers and diluting our margins. Fark sake.

[Going Nowhere]

“pursue all legal remedies”

sounds like clutching at straws to me.

[cynphil]

It reminds me of the phrase “the squeaky wheel gets the oil” !!!

[crosscutter]

Attacking Qantas is a pillar of Rex’s marketing strategy to gain brand awareness. It is sad, but here we are. Story 1…Rex announce publicly that they might sue Qantas. Story 2…Rex announce they have hired lawyers to explore options.

There is not much to see here. A few apologists of Sharp and his strategies. A muted Qantas response representative of its significance.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex today announced the appointment of market-leading litigation law firm Clayton Utz to pursue all legal remedies in response to Qantas' predatory and anti-competitive behaviour. Mr Fred Prickett will be leading the Clayton Utz litigation team, joined by Rex’s other competition advisors Ms Rachel Trindade and former Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) Commissioner Dr Rhonda Smith.

In other news, Clayton Utz lawyer Fred Prickett was today seen ordering a new yacht, while Rachel Trindade and Rhonda Smith were spotted browsing at a Ferrari dealership.

Seriously, Rex is burning money at both ends here, one in the B737 jet operations and the other in this pointless battle with Qantas. Can't wait to see Rex's FY21 report and watch John Sharp blame everyone but the Kardashians for Rex nosediving into a loss of many millions of dollars.

[Green.Dot]

Any updates on 737 ops?

What is JS doing with his crews over the next 8 weeks. ADL-MELs for everyone?

[SHVC]

Hypothetical, Rex dream team of lawyers find that QF has done the wrong thing (I don’t believe they have it completion that’s what happens)

Do they take them to court and then what? ACCC are obviously not interested in this story otherwise they would have acted.

[EPIRB]

Never thought that I would agree with something that John Sharp says:

Mr Sharp criticised state governments for being “trigger happy” and shutting borders too quickly, calling again for a national approach to lockdowns and border closures.

The deputy chair also backed the idea of issuing Australians with vaccine passports to allow fully vaccinated people to travel domestically and attend events such as football games, noting such incentives would probably be needed to hit the government’s target of getting 80 per cent of the population vaccinated in order to end lockdowns and reopen international borders.

Mr Sharp also called on the federal government to modify industrial relations frameworks to allow frontline businesses such as Rex to mandate vaccines for staff, saying it would have a “considerable benefit” and go a long way towards protecting passengers and workers.

Posted on https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-questions-qantas-stand-downs-as-lockdowns-batter-flight-plans-20210804-p58fsm.html

[DirectAnywhere]

Never thought that I would agree with something that John Sharp says:

Mr Sharp criticised state governments for being “trigger happy” and shutting borders too quickly, calling again for a national approach to lockdowns and border closures.

The deputy chair also backed the idea of issuing Australians with vaccine passports to allow fully vaccinated people to travel domestically and attend events such as football games, noting such incentives would probably be needed to hit the government’s target of getting 80 per cent of the population vaccinated in order to end lockdowns and reopen international borders.

Mr Sharp also called on the federal government to modify industrial relations frameworks to allow frontline businesses such as Rex to mandate vaccines for staff, saying it would have a “considerable benefit” and go a long way towards protecting passengers and workers.

Posted on https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-questions-qantas-stand-downs-as-lockdowns-batter-flight-plans-20210804-p58fsm.html

Yeah, well fat chance with that. Frydenburg said yesterday that immediate lockdowns are the way of the future for now with costs up to five times greater if states don’t lockdown immediately on discovering community transmission.

Victoria’s approach has clearly trumped NSW’s in the most recent Delta outbreaks.

Immediate lockdowns and ongoing border closures are the management strategy for now. Longer term? Who knows. There doesn’t appear to be much of an appetite from the premiers to actually comply with the four phase plan. The reality of trying to explain to the punters why people are going to die and why that is ok appears to be quelling their enthusiasm somewhat. Kudos to Jodie McVernon for coming out this morning and calling a spade a shovel.

Australia’s political leaders need to start doing the same if they want a way out of this that doesn’t continue to look like the last 18 months - but with businesses actually going broke or net government debt continuing to rise as they try and plug the dyke forever.

[MickG0105]

Hypothetical, Rex dream team of lawyers find that QF has done the wrong thing (I don’t believe they have it completion that’s what happens)

Do they take them to court and then what?
If Rex think they have a case they bring a civil action against Qantas in the Federal Court under the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (Cth). They'd need to demonstrate that on the balance of probabilities that Qantas had contravened the Act, presumably an abuse of market power, and that the contravention had caused quantifiable damage to them. They might also apply for an interim injunction to stop Qantas doing whatever Rex alleges the contravention is. Being a civil matter a judgement could take a while, at least a year. If the ACCC, having been given a very specific brief last year to monitor and report on the aviation sector, haven't found anything, Rex would be on a hiding to nothing in bringing a stand alone civil action.

[AerialPerspective]

Yeah, well fat chance with that. Frydenburg said yesterday that immediate lockdowns are the way of the future for now with costs up to five times greater if states don’t lockdown immediately on discovering community transmission.

Victoria’s approach has clearly trumped NSW’s in the most recent Delta outbreaks.

Immediate lockdowns and ongoing border closures are the management strategy for now. Longer term? Who knows. There doesn’t appear to be much of an appetite from the premiers to actually comply with the four phase plan. The reality of trying to explain to the punters why people are going to die and why that is ok appears to be quelling their enthusiasm somewhat. Kudos to Jodie McVernon for coming out this morning and calling a spade a shovel.

Australia’s political leaders need to start doing the same if they want a way out of this that doesn’t continue to look like the last 18 months - but with businesses actually going broke or net government debt continuing to rise as they try and plug the dyke forever.

The main reason is that Sydney initially had a 'Clayton's Lockdown' - department stores, etc. were still open. That was never the case in Victoria. In the first lockdown, closed meant CLOSED, with yes, places like Bunnings being open but if you got caught going to/from and used the excuse that you needed urgent repairs to your sink, you'd need to produce a receipt or the item(s) on the way back if that's when you got stopped and at Bunnings, there was a queue out the front to regulate the number of people in the building at any one time. We had a ring of steel. I would visit my Dad for care-giving and every time I returned home, EVERY TIME, I was required to pass through a Police Checkpoint outside metro Melbourne and explain where I had been, for what reason and where I was going.

[SilverSleuth]

Has Rex stood down it’s pilots? including the 737 pilots on contracts? Does contracted pilots even allow stand downs?

[Ladloy]

A mate said they've issued a notice with intent to stand down and they will be issuing stand down directions in the next few days.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Yes, stand downs confirmed and will be announced end of this week, after Rex today revised its FY21 performance from the break-even forecast in May to an $18m loss.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-flags-18m-loss-from-lockdowns

[1A_Please]

Yes, stand downs confirmed and will be announced end of this week, after Rex today revised its FY21 performance from the break-even forecast in May to an $18m loss.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-flags-18m-loss-from-lockdowns

Given NSW didn't go into lockdown until 26 June, I don't believe it could have affected the results for last year (2021) too much. This financial year (2022) is a different matter.

[transition_alt]

Given NSW didn't go into lockdown until 26 June, I don't believe it could have affected the results for last year (2021) too much. This financial year (2022) is a different matter.

Given they were already expecting a $15 million loss largely due to the Melboune lockdown, an additional $3 million due to Sydney is quite plausible.

[assasin]

Only 6 days ago, the all great JS had this to say;
https://amp.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-questions-qantas-stand-downs-as-lockdowns-batter-flight-plans-20210804-p58fsm.html

[430W]

Given they were already expecting a $15 million loss largely due to the Melboune lockdown, an additional $3 million due to Sydney is quite plausible.


The devil will be in the detail. Last financial year they reported a 19.4M loss. They are now indicating just a 18M loss after all that has gone on and the 737 startup. It could be an 18M loss after a 60M handout. Be interesting to see how this is spun but looking forward to seeing how they try.

[Bull_Shark]

Only 6 days ago, the all great JS had this to say;
https://amp.smh.com.au/business/comp...04-p58fsm.html (https://amp.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-questions-qantas-stand-downs-as-lockdowns-batter-flight-plans-20210804-p58fsm.html)

Oh so last week they were having a go at Qantas for standing down staff yet now Rex are doing the same thing?

Have the 737 crew at Rex been on full pay through all of this?

No matter what happens, Rex will still try and lay some blame on Qantas, along the lines of “honest country airline forced to stand down staff because Qantas is competing on their regional routes while also preventing Rex from expanding into the capital city markets” 🙄

[minigundiplomat]

I heard John Sharp took viagra but was disappointed.

His head just got longer

[SilverSleuth]

So does anyone think realistically that the 737 operation can seriously continue past the planned first 12 months.? With so much of the Regional flying out of Sydney, they must be bleeding all their reserves quickly.

[Buttscratcher]

Nah…..bunch of idiots.
I wish the pilots well, but management can choke a black rooster.

[Ladloy]

Nah…..bunch of idiots.
I wish the pilots well, but management can choke a black rooster.
They haven't burned through their first 50m yet.

[PoppaJo]

It could go on for a while. I mean Tiger went for 13 years. Alarm bells starting ringing by 2010 but they kept throwing cash at it. I’ll never understand how it went on for another 10 -They were planning on shutting it.

What is a acceptable level of return for a 10 jet operation? It wouldn’t be much. A couple of million tops?

[Turnleft080]

It could go on for a while. I mean Tiger went for 13 years. Alarm bells starting ringing by 2010 but they kept throwing cash at it. I’ll never understand how it went on for another 10 -They were planning on shutting it.

What is a acceptable level of return for a 10 jet operation? It wouldn’t be much. A couple of million tops?
The tiger existed only due to the VA CEO at the time flogged it for a buck if I remember.

[Bull_Shark]

What is a acceptable level of return for a 10 jet operation? It wouldn’t be much. A couple of million tops?

So straight from Rex’s own cost analysis 10 aircraft could easily translate into $120m in profits 😂

OPERATING STATS & REVENUE PROJECTIONS
The best way to have a good handle on the revenue projections is to consider the following (using the Syd-Mel route as a guide) ▪ One aircraft carries about 300,000 pax a year at 80% load factor
▪ Average ticket price is $200 (pre-Covid)
▪ If Rex’s cost advantage is 30% then that means $60 per ticket
▪ Giving up $20 as fare discount and assuming the $40 as profits would translate to $12M profits per aircraft
▪ 10 aircraft would translate to $120M profits
▪ In reality, the average cost per passenger (crew, fuel, engineering, lease etc) for typical carrier would be about $50 ▪ Depending on where the average ticket price will land, the profits per aircraft could be very significant”

[TimmyTee]

So straight from Rex’s own cost analysis 10 aircraft could easily translate into $120m in profits 😂

Sounds like an airline planning students submission at RMIT with incredibly basic and overly optimistic assumptions.
surely that's not legit??

[Bull_Shark]

Sounds like an airline planning students submission at RMIT with incredibly basic and overly optimistic assumptions. surely that's not legit??

Sure is legit!

Do a search on “Rex Operation Mother”, the whole strategy was leaked some time ago and yes it reads like it was put together by either an overly enthusiastic cadet looking for motivational points or the work experience kid 😂

[chookcooker]

They had me at “handle”

[Buttscratcher]

So essentially, they have burnt through the 20 mil that the QLD Gov gifted them last year to keep the regional sectors running.
Nice!
That was our tax money well spent!
What a bunch of pricks!

[1A_Please]

So straight from Rex’s own cost analysis 10 aircraft could easily translate into $120m in profits 😂
It's kind of hard to find any of their listed assumptions that they have met.

Nowhere near 80%LF, they rarely made 40%
$200 average fare They were flogging Business Class for $200 and couldn't attract passengers, Economy was $39 with similarly disastrous results
No idea about their cost advantage but scale brings benefits so it is hard to believe they were significantly cheaper than the main players
Giving up $20 as discount, let's try $160!!
Cost per pax of $50 is based on 80% LF which means costs per flight was estimated at $7200 (seems low given gov't and airport charges but whatever??) If you only have 50 pax paying $39, it would mean gross revenue of $3120 which would be a loss of over $4000 on every flight!!! Admittedly whilst most costs are fixed, some, like airport charges, do flex according to pax.

In summary, they are doomed and if this analysis is actually what they based their business decisions on, then shareholders should go after the directors for complete dereliction of duty.

[machtuk]

I've been watching their share price, reminds me of a B737 Max plummeting! I feel for their staff, must be unsettling knowing long term is precarious at best!

[Ladloy]

I've been watching their share price, reminds me of a B737 Max plummeting! I feel for their staff, must be unsettling knowing long term is precarious at best!
Share price is similar to pre covid levels. 737 op is precarious, saab operation was hoing gangbusters before the gladys outbreak

[430W]

Share price is similar to pre covid levels. 737 op is precarious, saab operation was hoing gangbusters before the gladys outbreak

Trouble is that the shares are pretty tightly held and those that rode it up to its heady heights have probably already exited. I used to watch the share price and volume before the Pandemic and certainly before the 737 op and you would see it move around 2 or 3 percent on just a few thousand shares being sold/bought. I couldn't help think that the shares were being traded between related parties to support the share price and capital value of the company. I have no proof but it always didn't add up to me.

As you rightly point out, the share price is back where it was pre pandemic and Rex were supposedly going gangbusters yet the shares have not headed for the basement with what is going on now and the enormous uncertainty surrounding the company. In fairness not of all their doing but the share price doesn't make sense. You will note minimal volume seems to support the price as it bounces around 1.20 and it has been like that for the last 3 or so months.

Might all be legit. Irrespective, my view has always been that I already have too much at risk in aviation just by working in it and buying airline shares is a step too far and that goes for any of them.

[KRUSTY 34]

Yup. The only Airline shares I ever owned were as part of my remuneration package.

As soon as I was able to, I cashed them in!

[SHVC]

Will Sharpie go to ACCC for predatory behavior by Virgin?? article from the Australian belowVirgin Australia is venturing into budget airline territory with a new “seat only” fare in its economy cabin.

The “economy lite” fare comes with a seat of the airline’s choosing, and up to 7kg of carry-on luggage but anything else is extra.

Starting from a lead-in price of $59, the fare represents a 33 per cent reduction on Virgin’s cheapest pre-Covid economy seats in an apparent effort to compete with Qantas’s low fares partner Jetstar.

Economy passengers will also have the option of two other fares – flex and choice – which include 23kg of checked baggage as well as 7kg of carry-on, plus seat selection.

As the name suggests, flex fares come with greater flexibility for last-minute flight and name changes, while the choice option has some booking flexibility plus extra Velocity frequent flyer points and status credits.

A Virgin spokesman said the fare changes followed an extensive review of the airline’s fare pricing and structure.

“We discovered that one in every three Virgin Australia customers don’t bring a checked bag when they travel despite a bag allowance built in to their airfare,” he said.

“On flights between Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, that number is even higher.”

He said the new options aimed to “put the power back in the hands of customers by leaving it up to them to choose what they want”.

“If they don’t want a checked bag or seat selection, they won’t have to pay for it – it’s that simple, If they prefer to keep the extras, there are great value inclusive fare options available,” said the spokesman.

New & improved business newsletter. Get the edge with AM and PM briefings, plus breaking news alerts in your inbox.

“Every customer is unique and has different needs and budgets and we want to welcome all of them on-board to experience our award-winning service, in the way that best suits them.”

The Qantas Group noted the announcement by Virgin Australia and dismissed any suggestion the airline would rival Jetstar’s low fares.

A spokesman said the airline was the “leading low cost carrier” in the country, and travellers could be confident they will always get the lowest fares with Jetstar.

It’s the latest in a string of changes to Virgin’s in-flight experience since the airline was brought out of administration by new owners Bain Capital.

Free snacks were removed earlier this year in favour of a buy on board menu for economy passengers while the business class offering was revamped to be “more contemporary” with a selection of crowd pleasers like avocado smash and lamb pies.

In-flight Wi-Fi remained unavailable but an announcement was expected by the end of the year.

The carrier repositioned itself as a “mid-market” airline under Bain Capital, in an effort to appeal to budget-conscious leisure travellers as well as price-sensitive business passengers.

But the latest move would appear to target Jetstar’s market, following the demise of Tigerair.

Other airlines that also offer a low cost carrier product like economy lite, include Delta, American Airlines, JetBlue, Air New Zealand and Lufthansa.

The new economy lite fares will not be available until September 20 and then only through the Virgin website.

[Chris2303]

It seems rather moronic to me that they are apparently willing to use precious money on litigation against their competitors.

Litigation that has no certain chance of success.

[Bull_Shark]

While Virgin and Qantas are planning for the eventual reopening of borders (with ideas and incentives like the Virgin ‘economy lite fare’) Rex are a rudderless ship with no clear strategy on how to drive the business when widespread travel picks up.

The ‘disciplined’ Rex management team (composed of nothing more than turboprop pilots with no business experience) are doing nothing but taking the odd pot shot at the competitors while keeping their eyes firmly closed hoping for a miracle.

[PoppaJo]

They also refunded the entire forward revenue they had. The other two have hundreds of millions in credits.

Essentially they need to start again early next year when border closures cease. Meanwhile Virgin is continuing to sharpen its pencil.

Rex will have no choice but to match Virgin’s lite fare offer. Expect some generous Frequent Flyer offers around the time Rex Mark 2 tries it again next Summer.

[transition_alt]

While Virgin and Qantas are planning for the eventual reopening of borders (with ideas and incentives like the Virgin ‘economy lite fare’) Rex are a rudderless ship with no clear strategy on how to drive the business when widespread travel picks up.

The ‘disciplined’ Rex management team (composed of nothing more than turboprop pilots with no business experience) are doing nothing but taking the odd pot shot at the competitors while keeping their eyes firmly closed hoping for a miracle.

Considering Rex just entered a major agreement with Webjet, I feel that is rather significant forward planning. Furthermore, wifi is activated on almost all 737's now. Seats are being altered to differentiate the Rex product from Virgin. But of course, we all missed that because we only post negative Rex comments on this forum.

[MickG0105]

Considering Rex just entered a major agreement with Webjet, ...

​​​​​​Do you have a source for that, by any chance?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x500/screenshot_20210820_125520_chrome_abd8d1a270d7f801955ed9dcf3 d0cc47b26e6e64.jpg

You wouldn't be thinking of Flight Centre by any chance, would you?

[SHVC]

Considering Rex just entered a major agreement with Webjet, I feel that is rather significant forward planning. Furthermore, wifi is activated on almost all 737's now. Seats are being altered to differentiate the Rex product from Virgin. But of course, we all missed that because we only post negative Rex comments on this forum.

if that were true, Sharpie would have let the world how awesome the Rex product is.

[transition_alt]

​​​​​​Do you have a source for that, by any chance?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x500/screenshot_20210820_125520_chrome_abd8d1a270d7f801955ed9dcf3 d0cc47b26e6e64.jpg

You wouldn't be thinking of Flight Centre by any chance, would you?

My apologies, yes Flight Centre.

[MickG0105]

My apologies, yes Flight Centre.
No problemo, thank you for the courteous reply.

[430W]

Rex annual results are out. Haven't looked right through them but essentially saying a $4M loss after an $83M government handout. That $4m Loss is after reporting an expected $19M loss just a few weeks ago. Great few weeks!

[Paragraph377]

Rex annual results are out. Haven't looked right through them but essentially saying a $4M loss after an $83M government handout. That $4m Loss is after reporting an expected $19M loss just a few weeks ago. Great few weeks!

Herr Sharp will have his usual cry and blame it all on that rascally predator Qantas.

If the shareholders are looking for someone to hang it should be the REX Board and CEO. They own this mess. COVID was always going to leave the cupboards bare, but starting a 737 operation on the premise that VA was gone forever has contributed massively to the REX losses. They have had Government handouts, have many subsidised routes, but have still come up short. Tsk tsk tsk.

[SHVC]

Rex have seemed to some reasonably well then. It was reported today in the Australian it’s estimated Virgin are loosing 100 million per month.

[galdian]

Rex have seemed to some reasonably well then. It was reported today in the Australian it’s estimated Virgin are loosing 100 million per month.

NO! NO! NO!

It's Bain who are losing the $100M per month, VA is just the asset/subsidiary/pipeline that is causing Bain to lose $100M/month.

For a corporate entity that is so money/profit voracious this must be giving them sleepless nights....as no end is in sight.

[SHVC]

Cut the asset loose they might. No end to covid in Australia in sight.

[ANstar]

Rex annual results are out. Haven't looked right through them but essentially saying a $4M loss after an $83M government handout. That $4m Loss is after reporting an expected $19M loss just a few weeks ago. Great few weeks!

it is an $18.4m loss after tax so inline with what they predicted a few weeks ago.

[430W]

it is an $18.4m loss after tax so inline with what they predicted a few weeks ago.

No, that's the before tax loss. See the Investor Briefing at https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02415527-2A1320205?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4

The more complete reports and accounts are on the ASX website as well.

I still haven't had time to go through them but the cursory look I did have, I couldn't see where they broke out the losses across the two segments of their RPT ops being the commuter operation and the B737 operation. They say nothing in the narrative so can't call it much of an Investor Briefing. In fact you could say it is misleading in the omission.

Charter and training held up well.

To give REX their due, given the times not a bad result irrespective of how they got there. You would have to worry once that government tap is turned off though and that can't be too far into the future.

[transition_alt]

It seems they've actually done quite okay, but not great.

Comparing the half year results, only an extra $28 mill of government subsidies have been received. This makes sense as job keeper is gone and certain subsidies were not available.

Pax revenue increased from $42m half year to $125m full year. The Saab operation never went back to full capacity (except QLD. Even WA isn't full schedule) during this second half period before the next round of lockdowns, so a decent amount of that can be attributed to the 737. Rex have been saying it's making money, so I guess they have to be trusted on that.

[1A_Please]

It seems they've actually done quite okay, but not great.

Comparing the half year results, only an extra $28 mill of government subsidies have been received. This makes sense as job keeper is gone and certain subsidies were not available.

Pax revenue increased from $42m half year to $125m full year. The Saab operation never went back to full capacity (except QLD. Even WA isn't full schedule) during this second half period before the next round of lockdowns, so a decent amount of that can be attributed to the 737. Rex have been saying it's making money, so I guess they have to be trusted on that.
I don't think we can trust them on that at all and their reluctance to provide properly segmented accounts "bells the cat". The known facts are that they were struggling to get 40% occupancy and lots of that was on $39 tickets which barely cover the airport charges and taxes. Both of these are far away from their original business assumptions. The only positive for them currently is that they probably lose less money on their 737 operations when they are grounded.

[PoppaJo]

I’d imagine the investor would like to see them have a solid crack at the market for 12-24 months before making any calls on it. They really have only had a month or two without any lockdowns.

Whilst 2022 will be ‘getting back on track’ 2023 will be the year to see where this is going. That’s also the timeframe when Virgin and Jetstar starting taking Max’s and Neo’s, so not sure if Rex will ever find any stability in its ‘niche’, with the competition adding capacity every month.

Jayne seems pretty firm on her 33% which will be another problem.

[Agent_86]

It's Bain who are losing the $100M per month. For a corporate entity that is so money/profit voracious this must be giving them sleepless nights....as no end is in sight.

Surely Bain must be looking to cut their losses at some point? $100M loss per month even for an Investment Firm must be raising questions from within?

Regarding Miss Jayne and her 'target 33%' of the domestic market. She obviously has a 'better polished' crystal ball than most others in the Industry. I guess the only benefit for VA is the 9 additional 737's are being leased on an 'hourly, dry flight rate' - similar to those 737's that have already returned to the fleet on lease. A win-win for both the lessor and VA.

It's going to be turbulent few months ahead.

- Max

[PoppaJo]

$100m sounds excessive. They have cut all the fat off, staff are on government handouts.

The Roo is burning what $40m a week? That’s including its share in Asian based low cost carriers also.

Virgin only has 70 machines. Seems a tad high.

[DanV2]

Surely Bain must be looking to cut their losses at some point? $100M loss per month even for an Investment Firm must be raising questions from within?

Regarding Miss Jayne and her 'target 33%' of the domestic market. She obviously has a 'better polished' crystal ball than most others in the Industry. I guess the only benefit for VA is the 9 additional 737's are being leased on an 'hourly, dry flight rate' - similar to those 737's that have already returned to the fleet on lease. A win-win for both the lessor and VA.

It's going to be turbulent few months ahead.

- Max

"Per Hour Rate" isn't confirmed for the ex-Silk Air machines as they are likely to have different lessors.

The two ex-VA Mk 1 planes are likely to get the "per hour" lease rate as they share the same lessors as the last batch.

[MickG0105]

Pax revenue increased from $42m half year to $125m full year. The Saab operation never went back to full capacity (except QLD. Even WA isn't full schedule) during this second half period before the next round of lockdowns, ...
I understand that the Saab operations never got back to pre-pandemic levels but those ops were the sole source of the $42 million first-half pax revenue. Given that for the second half, overall regional pax numbers were better than the first-half you'd expect that Rex would have taken in somewhat more than $42 million from Saab operations in H2. Call it $48 million for H2 from the Saabs for an even $90 million full year.

That leaves $35 million in jet ops revenue over four months, with the last of those months being largely impacted by Sydney restrictions/lockdowns and other border closures.

In terms of profit, the non-jet ops (Saabs, freight, charter and other) had returned $14.2 million before tax for H1 but that was likely inflated by the government subsidies, JobKeeper and the like. Previously before tax profit had run at about 6 percent of revenue so if we were to apply that to the $48 million H2 revenue estimate for regional plus the additional $20.6 million in H2 freight, charter and other there should have been a further $4.1 million in profits. That gives you over $18 million in non-jet profits for the year.

That should put the $18.4 million operating loss in better context; it's actually somewhere between a $32-36 million loss that is almost certainly largely attributable to just four months of jet operations.

Separately, for those who remember John Sharp's misguided spray back in April that "Qantas is now technically insolvent since its limited unencumbered cash would not be sufficient to meet all of its liabilities that have fallen due, especially the refundable tickets worth billions", well, Rex's position is now such that the value of their payables and unearned revenue (ie refundable tickets) exceeds their cash and receivables balance. They are, of course, not "technically insolvent" but it is at least note worthy that they could be tarred with the same brush.

[Agent_86]

"Per Hour Rate" isn't confirmed for the ex-Silk Air machines as they are likely to have different lessors

Hard to see the lessors of the ex Silk-Air frames not following suite with the "per flying hour" rate. Afterall, if the aircraft weren't leased to a new operator they would more than likely become 'desert dwellers' in ASP where other Silk-Air machines have been stored previously.

- Max

[Brakerider]

Hard to see the lessors of the ex Silk-Air frames not following suite with the "per flying hour" rate. Afterall, if the aircraft weren't leased to a new operator they would more than likely become 'desert dwellers' in ASP where other Silk-Air machines have been stored previously.

- Max

but we all remember how good VA are at negotiating leases. Weren’t they paying more for ATRs than 737s at one point?

[No Idea Either]

but we all remember how good VA are at negotiating leases. Weren’t they paying more for ATRs than 737s at one point?

Old regime Brakerider, you knew that of course…..

[Agent_86]

but we all remember how good VA are at negotiating leases. Weren’t they paying more for ATRs than 737s at one point?

Of course, many silly decisions made under "Borg and his Buddies" :uhoh:

[74world]

Anyone has any idea/info on what’s involved in the REX (737) interview ? Thanks.

[Brakerider]

Anyone has any idea/info on what’s involved in the REX (737) interview ? Thanks.


except a 30 min rant from nifty on loyalty, then you’ll be asked to fill out a form agreeing to stay at the budget ibis on your overnights.

[74world]

That’s it ????? LOL…….do you work for REX ?
What’s their terms and conditions for Captains?