REX to transition to ATRs, start domestic jet ops

[TimmyTee]

Well there goes Jan. First half of Feb looking risky. Going to be tight. These two Labor premiers will be holding them by the balls for as long as possible.

Yeah, because it’s the out of state premieres choosing not to do a short sharp lockdown ala ADL to burn out this outbreak.
Every virologist is saying they should have done it a week ago, and going off Adelaide’s data, it would be well and truly extinguished by now.

Instead we now have alerts for the one or two people who’ve been through Circular Quay...

[neville_nobody]

Rex had invested $45-50 million in two training facilities only to have graduates “pilfered” by larger carriers, he said.

Here we go again with this complete BS. Since when does REX legally own anybody?? How come they don't say people resigned from REX so they could triple their salary?

Pilferintransitive verb (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intransitive)
: steal (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal) especially : to steal stealthily in small amounts and often again and again

[jrfsp]

Is it too late to switch the launch route to BNE-MEL.......

[galdian]

Is it too late to switch the launch route to BNE-MEL.......

What's to say either BN or ML - or anywhere else in Oz - won't have some sort of an outbreak that "closes things down" rightly or wrongly?

Until you have a national approach, one where ALL states and territories remain open and deal with outbreaks as best they can it will be an ongoing clusterf*ck of uncertainty.

Now to what extent some states may or may not have ramped up to deal with outbreaks - now THAT's an interesting question.

[wheels_down]

What's to say either BN or ML - or anywhere else in Oz - won't have some sort of an outbreak that "closes things down" rightly or wrongly?


And just like that Melbourne has just recorded 3 Community Transmission cases within the last few minutes. Let’s hope they keep a lid on it this time.

[Ragnor]

LKH is about to get a real dose of reality here The inaugural flight could be flying empty.

[dr dre]

LKH is about to get a real dose of reality here The inaugural flight could be flying empty.

Dont worry, I’m sure National Party Airline’s empty flights will be taxpayer subsidised.....

[longtermatc-career]

Xxxxxxxxx

[PPRuNeUser0161]

By the time QF and Virgin are finished with REX any moneys they received by way of government grants will pale into insignificance compared to the losses they'll be posting. Personally I can't wait for the show to begin!

SN
Re-quoting myself to remind you all of what I said!

SN

[Mr Proach]

What about cabotage?

[Bodie1]

You don't think the incredible political power of the REX whinge will have those borders open by 1st of March?

[Lookleft]

No I don't. His political power stops in Canberra whereas the border decisions stop in the State Capitals. Even a sharpie can't blot out the relevant sections of the Constitution.

[getaway]

Re-quoting myself to remind you all of what I said!

SNyou must be hoping for a job at high cost qantas. Qantas can't afford to discount the triangle.

[KRUSTY 34]

you must be hoping for a job at high cost qantas. Qantas can't afford to discount the triangle.

Yes, but Jetstar can.

[getaway]

Yes, but Jetstar can.
but Rex or Virgin won't be competing with Jetstar only Qantas on the triangle

[Rudder]

you must be hoping for a job at high cost qantas. Qantas can't afford to discount the triangle.

QANTAS can't afford not to discount on these routes. They are not going to allow market share be permanently taken. Use the cheap Rex fares while you can but don't buy to far into the future would be my advice.

[getaway]

QANTAS can't afford not to discount on these routes. They are not going to allow market share be permanently taken. Use the cheap Rex fares while you can but don't buy to far into the future would be my advice.
think Qantas won't discount but rather offer other incentives like quadrupple ff pts, free things(that cost them very little but have a higher perceived value), Qantas Club, upgrades, free offpeak tickets, etc.

Rex will have much lower costs. They don't have excess staff sitting around doing SFA like Qantas does,

I wouldn't be buying Qantas tickets either.

[brokenagain]

They don't have excess staff sitting around doing SFA like Qantas does,

SFA, like modern day travel agents. Expedia with a pulse.

Have you ever actually worked airside Craig? Or is that just an observation from the departure lounge?

[Kickstarter]

didn't Qantas have a lot of employees per aircraft, just like the old Virgin did ?

Think Rex will have less employees per aircraft, being paid less as well.

There's a lot Expedia don't sell.

The smarter travel agents don't even try to compete with the likes of expedia & sell things expedia don't sell.

[brokenagain]

Who’s responding? Getaway, Kickstarter, BNEA320, Craig? It’s getting confusing!

[TimmyTee]

I wouldn't be buying Qantas tickets either.

I’ll break the bad news to Joyce; there shall be no more Qantas now that getaway has boycotted his airline and is instead flying on Rex forever more.

[wheels_down]

It might be wise to perhaps push back the start to perhaps June 1? The risk is great of possibly starting March then very up and down for a while to go yet.

[1A_Please]

Who’s responding? Getaway, Kickstarter, BNEA320, Craig? It’s getting confusing!
He's got more personalities than Sybil.

[Lambswool]

He's got more personalities than Sybil.

Nah. He's got a way to go yet. Sybil had 16 of them.:}

[Australopithecus]

Well, he’s got at least six identities, but so far zero personalities

[aviation_enthus]

Something useful to add to this thread for a change....

https://www.portnews.com.au/story/7070550/new-regional-routes-on-the-rex-drawing-board/

“Rex also plans to beef up its trademark Saab 340 turboprop services to regional ports in NSW, Victoria and Western Australia next year.New routes to Coffs Harbour, Port Macquarie, and Tamworth, and Geraldton in WA are on the drawing board, as are extra services to Albury and Mildura on the NSW-Victorian border.”

Within NSW in particular I’d argue there’s opportunities for Rex to “take it” to QF on some of these destinations. Particularly with connections towards Melbourne (and other capitals to come).

VA was traditionally weak in NSW regional areas, plus their future deal with Alliance will probably see a continuing focus on regional QLD.

The next 2-3 years will be a tough fight for all Aus domestic airlines. Hopefully a niche can be carved out for all. But history would suggest someone will not survive (that’s not QF!)

[TimmyTee]

I highly doubt they will be “taking it to QF” due to the MEL connection. While they have limited daily connections (it could be 40mins, or it could possibly be 3hrs) to a single capital city, QF will have much more frequented connections to all the major capitals in Aus.
This will end with the familiar “it’s not fair” tears, or hand being extended out by REX

[Deano969]

REX may have a slight edge as the have smaller SAABs and may be easier to fill

[Qantas 787]

Gee the media is giving Rex a great run....including no one pointing out all the funding and support the Govt has given them, particularly this year or there attitude when QF or VA started flying on a route they had a monopoly on. It is great free advertising....

[aviation_enthus]

Gee the media is giving Rex a great run....including no one pointing out all the funding and support the Govt has given them, particularly this year or there attitude when QF or VA started flying on a route they had a monopoly on. It is great free advertising....

So what? In a Rex vs QF battle, it’s pretty obvious who is the underdog....

I’ve worked for multiple companies now that deliberately avoid competing with QF because of their anti competitive attitude (on new regional routes in particular). QF spend all day long complaining to the government about various issues as well. All the airlines do it, so I suggest you get over it.

At the end of the day, having QF, VA and Rex running their own networks means more jobs for us pilots. What we should be hoping for is sustainable competition so we can keep those new jobs...

[Al E. Vator]

Bain will sort Virgin out, possibly resume some international ops and sell in 2-3 years.
New owner will also acquire Rex.

Thus QF have Jetstar and Virgin have Rex, being an airline with a great regional and domestic network and limited international ops that can be sensibly expanded.

Virgin have 737, SAAB and A330/777 and that’s it. Sensible fleet structure.

QF have A380, 787, A350, A330-300/200, 737, 717, Dash 8 400/300 with all the inherent cost inefficiency such an unnecessarily complex fleet structure entails.

Ansett collapsed for exactly this reason.

[Turnleft080]

Bain will sort Virgin out, possibly resume some international ops and sell in 2-3 years.
New owner will also acquire Rex.

Thus QF have Jetstar and Virgin have Rex, being an airline with a great regional and domestic network and limited international ops that can be sensibly expanded.

Virgin have 737, SAAB and A330/777 and that’s it. Sensible fleet structure.

QF have A380, 787, A350, A330-300/200, 737, 717, Dash 8 400/300 with all the inherent cost inefficiency such an unnecessarily complex fleet structure entails.

Ansett collapsed for exactly this reason.
Struth, a common sense approach. Looking into the crystal ball Singapore would be first mob on the list that would hold interest in merging Rex/virgin. They would buy and pay out Bain and PAG.
The LH aircraft won't be 330s/777 it would be a one fits all i.e. A350,B787-9, or last pick 777 with folding wings and I hope all the redundant pilots get first pick.
That's assuming covid is over and Singapore are all cashed up again.
If Rex are employing the Tiger pilots then they may go full circle and be flying back with Virgin's active Tiger AOC come 2 or 3 years.

[wheels_down]

Virgin have 737, SAAB and A330/777 and that’s it. Sensible fleet structure.

.
It would be like going back in time. My god just keep it simple. 737 and 787. Don’t over complicate things!

[Lookleft]

When will people understand that SIA is very good at what it does within the Republic of Singapore but outside of its borders it has a large number of failed airline investments. Why would SIA or rather Temasek consider putting any more money into an Australian airline given the failure of Ansett, Tiger and Virgin? I can't see any state owned carrier investing until their own balance sheet has recovered from the ravages of COVID. As for Qantas going the way of Ansett because of fleet types, its not going to happen. Mainline only has one narrow body type and one wide body type on its domestic network. The other aircraft are flown by contractors. As for LH it is only the 787 and A330 that it is currently operating. Types grounded or not yet purchased can't be included in the "too many types" box. Qantas is run by people who at least understand the industry. Ansett was run by a newspaper owner and a road transport owner who had very little knowledge or interest in the airline industry.

[getaway]

Something useful to add to this thread for a change....

https://www.portnews.com.au/story/7070550/new-regional-routes-on-the-rex-drawing-board/

“Rex also plans to beef up its trademark Saab 340 turboprop services to regional ports in NSW, Victoria and Western Australia next year.New routes to Coffs Harbour, Port Macquarie, and Tamworth, and Geraldton in WA are on the drawing board, as are extra services to Albury and Mildura on the NSW-Victorian border.”

Within NSW in particular I’d argue there’s opportunities for Rex to “take it” to QF on some of these destinations. Particularly with connections towards Melbourne (and other capitals to come).

VA was traditionally weak in NSW regional areas, plus their future deal with Alliance will probably see a continuing focus on regional QLD.

The next 2-3 years will be a tough fight for all Aus domestic airlines. Hopefully a niche can be carved out for all. But history would suggest someone will not survive (that’s not QF!)
think too many people listen to Joyce when he says Rex won't be any competition for QF. Rex is all about costs. No idea what a B738 captain & 1st officer & flight attendants get paid at Rex, but assuming it will be a lot less than QF & new lower cost VA & Rex will have a lot less people in terminals. Wages are a massive bill. Middle of this year will really see the massive recession hit, when jobkeeper payments have well & truly ended. ANZ bank says June/July will be bad economically.

[Ragnor]

Economist have from day 1 of this pandemic got everything wrong. I listened to Gerry Harvey talk about his business he said it’s up 50%, the magic millions live blood sale is grossing 30 million estimated this yr.
If borders are open you will see ppl spend like they haven't before just like November/December 2020. Latest data from Josh there is over 2b in savings that’s up from this time last year.

[Green.Dot]

Back on day 1 the economists didn’t expect this global clusterf==k to be well and truly kicking on over a year later.

You might be right Ragnor, but it’s all guess work from here on in.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Heard on Perth Radio 6PR this arvo.....

John Sharp on interview, stating the they have 'just commenced a course for 40 pilots this week'.......

GOOD news for some....

Cheers

[getaway]

Heard on Perth Radio 6PR this arvo.....

John Sharp on interview, stating the they have 'just commenced a course for 40 pilots this week'.......

GOOD news for some....

Cheers
thought they werer going to be all ex VA or almost. Rex & VA rules that different ? Don't understand, but have been drinking heaps watching the cricket

[Ragnor]

Are Rex are bonding these new 73 drivers for 7yrs? If VA grow, which they will in 7 yrs they will be bringing back the redundancy list first. That will leave Rex short again.

[morno]

thought they werer going to be all ex VA or almost. Rex & VA rules that different ? Don't understand, but have been drinking heaps watching the cricket

Err, it’s called induction. You can’t just rock up day 1 and start flying the aeroplane.

[getaway]

Err, it’s called induction. You can’t just rock up day 1 and start flying the aeroplane.
6 week induction for ex VA pilots, flying ex VA aircraft ? Sounds like the public service or suburban train drivers who need 12 months to "learn" how to stop & go (driving a train is far more complicated than flying any aircraft) & get paid $250k a year.

[morno]

6 week induction for ex VA pilots, flying ex VA aircraft ? Sounds like the public service or suburban train drivers who need 12 months to "learn" how to stop & go (driving a train is far more complicated than flying any aircraft) & get paid $250k a year.

Not all of them are ex VA pilots, and Rex still have to develop their own procedures, manuals, etc. etc. You can't just rock up to CASA with Virgin replaced with Rex on the manuals and expect it to be approved. Tiger tried that.

HR courses, sims, SEP's, all has to be done.

[getaway]

Not all of them are ex VA pilots, and Rex still have to develop their own procedures, manuals, etc. etc. You can't just rock up to CASA with Virgin replaced with Rex on the manuals and expect it to be approved. Tiger tried that.

HR courses, sims, SEP's, all has to be done.ok but 6 weeks ? Is that 1 day a week ?

[slice]

getaway, you have obviously never worked inside any airline or probably any aviation organisation for that matter. If the induction courses run smoothly then possibly, just possibly, an experienced new hire pilot might be able to be checked to line in just over 4 weeks. One big bottleneck is Sim availability. As Rex certainly don't have their own Sim resources they are at the mercy of whoever does, and they aren't going to be doing any favours for Rex. Also this is a new operation, so CASA will be watching everything carefully, bringing everything to crashing halt if they find anything they don't like(remember Tiger).

[1A_Please]

getaway, you have obviously never worked inside any airline or probably any aviation organisation for that matter. If the induction courses run smoothly then possibly, just possibly, an experienced new hire pilot might be able to be checked to line in just over 4 weeks. One big bottleneck is Sim availability. As Rex certainly don't have their own Sim resources they are at the mercy of whoever does, and they aren't going to be doing any favours for Rex. Also this is a new operation, so CASA will be watching everything carefully, bringing everything to crashing halt if they find anything they don't like(remember Tiger).
I believe Rex are using the Ansett simulator at Garden Drive in Tullamarine. Given there will be no international pilots coming in for training, I assume availability for REX would be good.

[neville_nobody]

6 week induction for ex VA pilots, flying ex VA aircraft ? Sounds like the public service or suburban train drivers who need 12 months to "learn" how to stop & go (driving a train is far more complicated than flying any aircraft) & get paid $250k a year.

What were you expecting from a highly regulated industry controlled by career bureaucrats?

[Australopithecus]

The Ansett Training website only mentions 737 classic (2nd gen) type ratings. So no good for the NG (3rd gen) aircraft. I know where they have been training, and there is going to be a bottleneck there soon.

[AerialPerspective]

Not all of them are ex VA pilots, and Rex still have to develop their own procedures, manuals, etc. etc. You can't just rock up to CASA with Virgin replaced with Rex on the manuals and expect it to be approved. Tiger tried that.

HR courses, sims, SEP's, all has to be done.

If TT did that then they learned from the geniuses at VA because rumour has it that when VA (or DJ) at the time submitted their manuals, someone at CASA suggested gently that they might want to remove the word Ansett from the documents and perhaps the Ansett logo where it appeared on a few pages....... kind of sums up the expertise when they started and their general level of expertise....

[brokenagain]

driving a train is far more complicated than flying any aircraft

Please enlighten us with your flying experience to be able to make a call like that Craig.

[Lookleft]

Rex have been training cabin crew at the Ansett Training centre but there is no 737NG sim. The only one I can think of other than QF would be alteon in Brisbane.

[Kickstarter]

Please enlighten us with your flying experience to be able to make a call like that Craig.i think she/he is having a go at how much suburban trains drivers are paid for something that's much simpler than driving a car or truck.

No indicators, no changing lanes etc. just brake & throttle.

[Chris2303]

i think she/he is having a go at how much suburban trains drivers are paid for something that's much simpler than driving a car or truck.

No indicators, no changing lanes etc. just brake & throttle.

And knowing every inch of the routes on which they are cleared to drive. Every signal, every curve, every set of points, every speed restriction. And that's not to mention traction knowledge

[SOPS]

And knowing every inch of the routes on which they are cleared to drive. Every signal, every curve, every set of points, every speed restriction. And that's not to mention traction knowledge
As an ex airline pilot .. now train driver.. I can assure you Chris is correct.. there is more to driving trains than you think.

[galdian]

I believe Rex are using the Ansett simulator at Garden Drive in Tullamarine. Given there will be no international pilots coming in for training, I assume availability for REX would be good.

Unless Ansett Sims bit the bullet and spent $$ upgrading the classic sim software then no longer acceptable for check signoffs for a couple of years now.
I used the SIM for renewals on my Oz licence a couple of times to meet overseas requirements, as type rating in Oz was 300-900 ticked the box adequately.

Even if upgraded wonder what CASA would say about using a classic sim for signoffs then operations within Australia on the NG?

[morno]

Unless it’s disappeared in the last few years, there is an NG sim at Ansett

[Lookleft]

Even Ansett doesn't think there is an NG sim in Melbourne https://www.ansettaviationtraining.com/simulators

[morno]

Interesting, maybe it has disappeared. I swear I remember there was one there that Virgin used, even had their logo on the side. Opposite the A320 sim.

[galdian]

Interesting, maybe it has disappeared. I swear I remember there was one there that Virgin used, even had their logo on the side. Opposite the A320 sim.

There must of been, remember running into an ex Ansett/Japan/ then VA 73 checker back in 2017 or so who was there doing SIM stuff.

If you've ever followed the threads from guys trying to find ways to complete IR's for foreign regulators you'll realise how far away Oz is in understanding there's a big, big world out there. But few here seem to care.

[Tubman601]

Yes there is an NG sim at Ansett Melbourne, it’s where Melbourne based crew do their sims and any overload goes to Bris or vice versa.
Rex are using the Boeing sim in Bris too, have friends using it.

[Green.Dot]

Yes there is an NG sim at Ansett Melbourne, it’s where Melbourne based crew do their sims and any overload goes to Bris or vice versa.
Rex are using the Boeing sim in Bris too, have friends using it.

Can somebody please take a photo of the sim centre tomorrow to settle this. The suspense is killing me.

[Icarus2001]

https://www.ansettaviationtraining.com/locations/australia

Not listed as 737NG being available but maybe it is.

[chimbu warrior]

https://www.casa.gov.au/licences-and-certification/flight-training/flight-simulators-and-training-devices

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/970x161/screenshot_2021_01_19_flight_simulators_and_training_devices _becd19daae75f129d7476c870e73f64e326e8b92.png

CASA seem to think it is there too.

[galdian]

https://www.casa.gov.au/licences-and-certification/flight-training/flight-simulators-and-training-devices

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/970x161/screenshot_2021_01_19_flight_simulators_and_training_devices _becd19daae75f129d7476c870e73f64e326e8b92.png

CASA seem to think it is there too.


Yes but probably Ansett lease the space to VA and it's only for use by VA, Ansett do not have use or access.

Whether another airline could negotiate use? Nothing to do with Ansett, EVERYTHING to do with owners attitude - or maybe cashflow in these interesting times.

Bit like Indecent Proposal - Woddy Harralson COULD rent out Demi Moore to Robert Redford for a night - but are the $$$ good enough?? :E

[Goat Whisperer]

The 738 sim in AAT Melbourne is Virgin's, maintained by AAT, but not for hire. It's the better of VA's 2 737 sims.

[galdian]

The 738 sim in AAT Melbourne is Virgin's, maintained by AAT, but not for hire. It's the better of VA's 2 737 sims.

Honest Q: who owns it now?

With the administration etc appears VA used many assets for collateral, no reason why the SIM's couldn't have been mortgaged.

So who owns the SIM now?

[Derfred]

i think she/he is having a go at how much suburban trains drivers are paid for something that's much simpler than driving a car or truck.

No indicators, no changing lanes etc. just brake & throttle.

Well, BNEA320, given that you wrote the post you are speculating on, I would say you would know.

Or does your memory fade when you change usernames?

[DanV2]

i think she/he is having a go at how much suburban trains drivers are paid for something that's much simpler than driving a car or truck.

No indicators, no changing lanes etc. just brake & throttle.

Well seeing that you wrote that post under your 'getaway' account, BNEA320. Shouldn't you know this?

Perhaps you can start a airline and train company, you did say you have the 'brains' to start a transport business.
Perhaps your trains can connect to your 800 seat A380 flying direct from Sydney to Colorado.

Your LNP mates may be able to help.

[Dookie on Drums]

Not all of them are ex VA pilots, and Rex still have to develop their own procedures, manuals, etc. etc. You can't just rock up to CASA with Virgin replaced with Rex on the manuals and expect it to be approved. Tiger tried that.

HR courses, sims, SEP's, all has to be done.

Seemed to work for Airnorth and their EJet operation. It is/was a copy/paste of the old VB manuals.

[getaway]

Seemed to work for Airnorth and their EJet operation. It is/was a copy/paste of the old VB manuals.
how different can they be ?

[minigundiplomat]

how different can they be ?

getaway,

I can't decide whether you are the APAC regions greatest ever pilot baiting troll, or just a d1ck. I am going with the latter.....

[DanV2]

how different can they be ?

Why are you asking? You should know it, being the self proclaimed know it all of running airlines.

[Derfred]

When BNEA320 gets called out under whatever username, he stops responding and just starts a new thread.

[wheels_down]

Usernames of members aside, 5 weeks to go, is this going ahead?

3360 seats to fill a day from the get go.

[Ladloy]

Usernames of members aside, 5 weeks to go, is this going ahead?

3360 seats to fill a day from the get go.
Yes. Plenty of pilots and FAs in the system ready to go.

[Global Aviator]

People will buy tickets on the cheapest available at present. I personally do not think many currently care about points or lounges. Have you been through airports lately? It is hassle free and very fast through check in and security due no crowds.

As some form of normalcy returns I am sure this will change.

I've been enjoying some domestic travel recently and flights I've taken were generally 70-80%, no idea on the $ side.

REX should do well for the first few months, it would be interesting to know the advance booking numbers!

What is the REX cancelation policy due Covid shut downs (yes I could look it up)?

[NaFenn]

What is the REX cancelation policy due Covid shut downs (yes I could look it up)?
Per the rex media release on the 12th of Jan 2021 (https://www.rex.com.au/BlobViewer/BlobViewer.aspx?attachtype=MR&filename=514F5537326E316A4F346B714355656B427642386E386270326 C747974455847334A6A3770714650443636556939636A3850766F5150614 7636E7479664E4771596866494C7448632F6C343D)

Rex General Manager of Network Strategy Warrick Lodge said, “Rex remains committed to a full refund of all tickets affected by any flight cancellation or rescheduling, without exception. Rex will also be offering a full refund of tickets for passengers who are directly affected by current and future COVID-related border closures or travelling restrictions, even though our flights continue to operate as scheduled.

[Bull_Shark]

Make no mistake, as has been alluded to here before and confirmed in the media last week, Rex planned this whole operation on the basis that there wouldn’t be a Virgin to compete with.

When Virgin entered administration we had the Rex chairman dancing around the still warm carcass making disparaging remarks about their management and operation and talking down their value in attempt to switch off the life support once and for all.

Then we had their announcement about commencing capital city routes coinciding with the pointy end of negotiations over who was going to take over the reigns at Virgin.

Rex’s plans and expansion schedule is very similar to how Virgin Blue entered the market in the absence of a defunct Ansett.

Rex thought they were going to slide easily into a domestic market vacated by Virgin and regardless of the impact of COVID would be able to carve a niche in the absence of at least one major competitor.

Rex have never had any real competition, their regional operation is unique for anywhere in the world in that (as they’ve stated many times themselves) their main competitor is the car. The majority of their routes are sub 1 hour, devoid of any competition and some are heavily subsided.

Where Rex have had competition and after the proverbial whinge to the local councils/government they are soundly beaten or quit the route all together (think Port Lincoln or Dubbo where QantasLink have squeezed what once were profitable for Rex or more recently Merimbula or Kangaroo Island where given the threat of competition withdraw all together)

The majority of passengers carried by Rex are Government, medical or business travellers looking to complete their business in one day instead of the two or three if driven. There are very few country residents that use Rex to connect onto other airlines to fly interstate or overseas.

So in light of all of this, where does this leave Rex in entering what has been a notoriously difficult domestic market?

Rex have never put much effort into marketing or brand awareness, in fact they’ve only in the last few months for the first time created a social media presence.

Unless you’re from the country no one has a clue who Rex are and those that have had to use the service are aware of the arrogant indifference often displayed (think the chairman’s remarks to a country Doctor telling him not to bother flying with them again when he had a genuine question regarding a delayed service, the constant threats of withdrawing marginal services if local council don’t toe the line or the constant whinging about the ‘poaching’ of pilots even though their business model is based around a high turn over of crew at their training academy).

Rex are about to find that the bare bones arrogant effort they’re used to operating with in an environment of no competition with a captive consumer base, isn’t going to translate into early success when upscaling their operation into a totally different market they have no experience in.

As in the past, it’ll be those with the deepest pockets who will survive and the question is who is going to throw cash at Rex to enable them to survive what’s going to be a tough initial few years?

[wheels_down]

Survival will depend on passenger treatment also, offering fares at Jetstar levels, does this mean treating them like Jetstar passengers when things go wrong?

I have a feeling they will treat them more like Tiger passengers when things go wrong. The fleet sizes will be similar, the scrutiny around spending cash will be similar, and a old fleet will be similar.

Tiger destroyed itself in Jan of 2008 after they commenced operations when they started canceling flights due to engineering and they didn’t have much ability to transfer these people onto future fights due to full, and no ability to add on more flights. They did as little as possible to spend as little as possible, as we all know, rescheduling around engineering is expensive. Executives told the media, passengers will get refunds in 90 days and ‘should have purchased travel insurance- not our problem’. It will just all downhill from there.

Rex won’t want to spend cash looking after its passengers. Mark my words, those 738s will break down, no different to Tiger, well they are the same and older. I will avoid them due to this reason alone, most certainly aware of the engineering issues these older birds have had in the last. Jetstar is tight and might be an hour late, however the A321S is more reliable, and I won’t sit there looking out the window waiting for a Rex engineer trying to fix VOP or VUF for the thousandth time.

[Wingspar]

How about this?

A capacity war starts March 1. Everyone is losing money. The first to run out is Rex. Bain buy Rex for a song and get the best regional network in the country?

[3 Holer]

How about this?

A capacity war starts March 1. Everyone is losing money. The first to run out is Rex. Bain buy Rex for a song and get the best regional network in the country?

Could be an idea for a fictional book or a movie maybe? I doubt it :)

[Ragnor]

Rex regional network is mostly reliant on gov handouts.

[Ladloy]

How about this?

A capacity war starts March 1. Everyone is losing money. The first to run out is Rex. Bain buy Rex for a song and get the best regional network in the country?
Laughable theory.

[aviation_enthus]

Survival will depend on passenger treatment also, offering fares at Jetstar levels, does this mean treating them like Jetstar passengers when things go wrong?

I have a feeling they will treat them more like Tiger passengers when things go wrong. The fleet sizes will be similar, the scrutiny around spending cash will be similar, and a old fleet will be similar.

Tiger destroyed itself in Jan of 2008 after they commenced operations when they started canceling flights due to engineering and they didn’t have much ability to transfer these people onto future fights due to full, and no ability to add on more flights. They did as little as possible to spend as little as possible, as we all know, rescheduling around engineering is expensive. Executives told the media, passengers will get refunds in 90 days and ‘should have purchased travel insurance- not our problem’. It will just all downhill from there.

Rex won’t want to spend cash looking after its passengers. Mark my words, those 738s will break down, no different to Tiger, well they are the same and older. I will avoid them due to this reason alone, most certainly aware of the engineering issues these older birds have had in the last. Jetstar is tight and might be an hour late, however the A321S is more reliable, and I won’t sit there looking out the window waiting for a Rex engineer trying to fix VOP or VUF for the thousandth time.

Rex generally provide good service on their SAAB services, why would a “new” jet operation be any different? Just because Tiger was cheap and angry, doesn’t mean Rex will be. Their history and culture are completely different!

They also have a completely different refund policy for “COVID cancellations”. Unlike Qantas and Virgin, Rex will offer a 100% refund for ANY ticket if the states change the border rules.

As for reliability, Rex run 20+ year old SAABs yet have one of the best OTP of any major airline in Aus. They’ve clearly proven they know how to run a reliable operation. It’s also pretty obvious they know that reliable service is critical to winning market share.

Just another rubbish post from people slagging off against Rex....

They will be stronger competition than any other “new jet airline” that’s started in Aus in the last 30 years.

[PoppaJo]

As for reliability, Rex run 20+ year old SAABs yet have one of the best OTP of any major airline in Aus. They’ve clearly proven they know how to run a reliable operation. It’s also pretty obvious they know that reliable service is critical to winning market share.
.
I think the point was around Rex having no operational experience dealing with large volumes of passengers, when things go haywire. That is where Tiger failed. Regardless they only have the ability to move onto the next service. Moving 200 people onto one or two fights remaining for the day will be a challenge. Don’t deny the fact, it’s Sydney to Melbourne, expect cancellations, it’s going to happen.

I really don’t think the S34 to 737 is a valid comparison. Tiger exited the A320 with 90% OTP, they picked the same 737s that Rex are chasing and it dropped to 60% and never moved the dial.

Don’t underestimate the challenges operating a old Jet fleet. No different to old Airbus machines (ten times worse than Boeing).

They also need to get the website in order. My Son has been trying to change a flight with them, the Modify My Booking online platform has been out of service for 3 weeks with associated apologies online.

[Global Aviator]

That’s ok if the 73 goes AOG just fire up 5 SAAB’s...... :E

[Green.Dot]

That’s ok if the 73 goes AOG just fire up 5 SAAB’s...... :E

You will be in a management role before you know it with lateral thinking like that! :ok:

I can already picture the post flight survey Rex sends out- “How satisfied were you with your recent flight to Sydney?” :}

[aviation_enthus]

I think the point was around Rex having no operational experience dealing with large volumes of passengers, when things go haywire. That is where Tiger failed. Regardless they only have the ability to move onto the next service. Moving 200 people onto one or two fights remaining for the day will be a challenge. Don’t deny the fact, it’s Sydney to Melbourne, expect cancellations, it’s going to happen.

I really don’t think the S34 to 737 is a valid comparison. Tiger exited the A320 with 90% OTP, they picked the same 737s that Rex are chasing and it dropped to 60% and never moved the dial.

Don’t underestimate the challenges operating a old Jet fleet. No different to old Airbus machines (ten times worse than Boeing).

They also need to get the website in order. My Son has been trying to change a flight with them, the Modify My Booking online platform has been out of service for 3 weeks with associated apologies online.

I think the fact Rex can do 90% OTP on a SAAB at least shows they’ll treat OTP seriously on any jet fleet as well. A 737 is just another aircraft, not some special unicorn. So if the culture exists to get high OTP, it shouldn’t matter what aircraft it is.

Tiger was a basket case by the time they’d moved across to any meaningful 737 fleet, so I’m not sure that’s a reasonable comparison.

Rex don’t have “1 or 2 flights a day”. They currently have 9 return flights and I’d expect this will increase later in 2021. So I don’t think they’ll have a huge issue with finding seats for a canceled flight.

Having been there when they set up the QLD ops, I’d imagine Rex are doing the same thing with the 737 ops. “War gaming” various scenarios to work out recovery plans. Again, something that comes from the culture and SOP’s that already exist within the company.

[Ragnor]

90% OTP is easy on a 30 seat SAAB departing country outports with no security where they usually only have about 15 pax on board.

[inthenightgarden]

It's going to end in tears for one of the three, history proves that. The only questions are which one and how long?

[Ragnor]

it won’t be VA or QF!

[goodonyamate]

How does REX measure OTP?

[havick]

it won’t be VA or QF!

It already did for VA in case you missed the last 12 months.

[PoppaJo]

I think the fact Rex can do 90% OTP on a SAAB at least shows they’ll treat OTP seriously on any jet fleet as well. A 737 is just another aircraft, not some special unicorn. So if the culture exists to get high OTP, it shouldn’t matter what aircraft it is.

Tiger was a basket case by the time they’d moved across to any meaningful 737 fleet, so I’m not sure that’s a reasonable comparison.

Rex don’t have “1 or 2 flights a day”. They currently have 9 return flights and I’d expect this will increase later in 2021. So I don’t think they’ll have a huge issue with finding seats for a canceled flight.

Having been there when they set up the QLD ops, I’d imagine Rex are doing the same thing with the 737 ops. “War gaming” various scenarios to work out recovery plans. Again, something that comes from the culture and SOP’s that already exist within the company.
I said remaining flights. After 6pm only 2 flights are scheduled. From Melbourne only 1. When that evening storm passes across the Sydney basin, it’s game over. The others have a few dozen flights to play with.

90% ML-SY is a pipe dream. No Intersection departures or quick regional turnarounds with this machine. Now it’s the 30 min treck down to 34R with the rest of the boys and girls. Join me for the 40 min wait in the queue down at Kilo in Melbourne, no more quick getaways off Golf in between departures and arrivals.

They will need to separate the Regional and Jet OTP as it will be quite misleading advertising this, when the reality is that. Could be a clever way of covering slipping performance in the Jet statistics, especially in Winter.

[C441]

90% OTP is easy on a 30 seat SAAB departing country outports with no security where they usually only have about 15 pax on board.
A family friend experienced this in Normanton about 18 months ago. After driving 4 or 5 hours from a cattle property, he arrived comfortably before the required time to see a Rex Saab departing. On check-in he was told that the departing aircraft was indeed his flight. It had departed ahead of schedule as they had a u/s aircraft and the aircraft was needed back at the base to replace it. Rex very kindly offered to put him up at the Normanton Hotel for the (Friday) night; quite an experience for someone who'd only lived in Australia for a few years!

Whilst a one-off event, this may explain one method Rex use to ensure on-time performance!

[Green.Dot]

A family friend experienced this in Normanton about 18 months ago. After driving 4 or 5 hours from a cattle property, he arrived comfortably before the required time to see a Rex Saab departing. On check-in he was told that the departing aircraft was indeed his flight. It had departed ahead of schedule as they had a u/s aircraft and the aircraft was needed back at the base to replace it. Rex very kindly offered to put him up at the Normanton Hotel for the (Friday) night; quite an experience for someone who'd only lived in Australia for a few years!

Whilst a one-off event, this may explain one method Rex use to ensure on-time performance!

Brilliant- depart 60 mins early to make up for 3 x 20 min late departures. OTP 100%:) These guys are going to kill it with Maggots.

[TimmyTee]

Biggest threat to REXs existence is the next Federal Election later this year/early next year. They’d be praying to whatever god they follow that the Coalition get up.. Without another free federal dump truck of money, things could get ugly.

[lamax]

90% OTP is impressive as REX flights stage through capital city airports where most delays originate, Quick turnarounds in the country may help to regain schedules but operating on time from remote stands in SYD for instance takes some organizing.

[Kelly Slater]

Do Rex still use beacon on time as off blocks time? Makes OTP pretty easy.

[Ragnor]

Their OTP will also depend on their turn around times VA and QF usually good large portion of that would relate to longer turn around times 40+ minutes and less punters 160 odd with business class and plenty of ground staff to help out. JQ generally shocking OTP 30 minute turn arounds 186+ punters 230+ 40mn turn around 321 usually stand off at our ports LT, ML, OOL etc minimal staff few other cogs in the wheel to align to get away on time . Rex initially will have good OTP due to lack of frequency.

[aviation_enthus]

A family friend experienced this in Normanton about 18 months ago. After driving 4 or 5 hours from a cattle property, he arrived comfortably before the required time to see a Rex Saab departing. On check-in he was told that the departing aircraft was indeed his flight. It had departed ahead of schedule as they had a u/s aircraft and the aircraft was needed back at the base to replace it. Rex very kindly offered to put him up at the Normanton Hotel for the (Friday) night; quite an experience for someone who'd only lived in Australia for a few years!

Whilst a one-off event, this may explain one method Rex use to ensure on-time performance!

Personally I find this story hard to believe and probably a bit one sided....

The flights through Normanton are part of the QLD Govt contracted routes so it’s basically impossible to leave early.

I’d guess what actually happened is the aircraft took off before scheduled departure but AFTER checkin had closed, which is 30 min before departure. Checkin closure time is the time to be aware of, not departure time.... Having spent plenty of time in the gulf and cape, pax arriving after checkin closes was a common theme.

[aviation_enthus]

90% OTP is easy on a 30 seat SAAB departing country outports with no security where they usually only have about 15 pax on board.

Biggest bases are Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. Therefore every second leg is out of a capital city airport, from remote stands, subject to ATC delays, etc. Plus Sydney is by far the biggest network yet they still manage to maintain high OTP....

Somehow I think they’ll be ok dealing with a SYD-MEL schedule. Despite your obvious wish to see them fail...

[Ragnor]

I don't wish them to fail.....They will fail at the jet side of it. Rex is a company propped up by gov subsidies take those away their network will be cut in half. With less than half filled SAABs on the remaining, but, lucky the SAAB runs on the smell of an oily rag and in two or so yrs when things pick up, they wont have a 73 pilot to stand on due to their low wages which is backed up by Sharpie 10% less than JQ statment they will head off back to VA or where is paying better.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

The problem a domestic airline faces in this country is the bookends of cost vs demand. Sounds obvious but the demand was largely a manufactured demand and not organic. The demand outgrew any organic growth under the guise of a “cheap and cheerful” offering that was available to the aspirational. Competition drove the (self destructive) cost reduction monoculture that drives all big business. Now the airlines live in a cost driven version of coffin corner where they can’t go cheaper, because the system is already at breaking point, and they can’t go more expensive because demand suffers, either way revenue reduces.

QF have the critical mass to survive, the other two may have deep pockets, but they are also heavily backed by investors who will cut and run if the milk looks like going sour. It will be QF and whoever blinks second, and no one else. The interesting thing to watch will be how long Bain and Miss Jayne spend trying to be smarter than everyone else. Rex could prevail if they are focused on running an air transport operation and not a harbour for cheap labour.

[aviation_enthus]

Despite some of the negative and clearly biased comments on here, the next 2 years or so will be interesting to watch in Aus aviation (and not clear cut).

Rex moving into jet ops has only one clear comparison in Aus history, Impulse Airlines. Even then this is not a particularly valid comparison due to the size of their respective regional networks being completely different (13- Beech 1900’s VS 60 Saab 340’s). Any other comparison to Tiger or “Australia can only handle two domestic airlines” is not particularly useful in working out who will win the QF/VA/Rex battle to come.

QF will clearly still exist. They hold the dominant market position and have generally had deeper pockets.

VA being owned by private capital with some previous airline experience would have a good shot in any 2 way fight. But now Rex has turned up, the dynamics have changed. Both QF and Rex have good regional networks, this is the major weakness for VA. VA also needs to get their culture under control as far as spending $$$ go. They haven’t made money for a long time, so getting all the “little” things under control could take a while.

Despite some of the comments on here, Rex is not held up by government subsidies. QLD subsidise SOME of the regulated routes. Yes a large part of the Rex network is a monopoly. But to this I’d argue the last 10 years has shown a regional monopoly doesn’t guarantee success (Skytrans, Brindabella, Vincent Aviation). Even Sharp Airlines has reduced most of their “monopoly” RPT routes.

Rex has a management and part owner that has been in the game since 2002. They’ve consistently made money in a tough section of the industry. They are likely to have lower costs than Jetstar (aircraft leases, crew salaries). They already have ground staff, HQ support, engineering, even a paint hangar at Wagga. Make no mistake, Rex will be a tough competitor to VA and QF.

Besides all that, what’s the end game for Rex? If they start making good cashflow with 10 or so 737’s, why would they keep expanding into more marginal routes? Their strong point is the feed from their regional network and feeding traffic back into it. Even on the regional network, they tend to focus effort on expansion into profitable areas (note the lack of follow up expansion into FNQ or QF dominated routes in NSW).

I’ll reserve my judgement on who will “win”.

Hopefully everyone does.

[wheels_down]

Biggest bases are Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. Therefore every second leg is out of a capital city airport, from remote stands, subject to ATC delays, etc. Plus Sydney is by far the biggest network yet they still manage to maintain high OTP....

Somehow I think they’ll be ok dealing with a SYD-MEL schedule. Despite your obvious wish to see them fail...
Virgin and QF can manage the older NGs by swapping out with others if they go AOG. They have room in the schedule when these things happen, most of the time. Which in turn maintains some form of customer reliability. Rex, like Tiger won’t have that ability. Which is why Tiger Management decided to move away from the old NGs and stick to conversions 10 years and younger.

How long can these NGs go on for? Boeing reckons 25 years until they will start looking at converting to freighters. They are on the home stretch right now. Looking at engineering papers, these early 00 builds, I think another 5 years is all they have left.

[galdian]

Virgin and QF can manage the older NGs by swapping out with others if they go AOG. They have room in the schedule when these things happen, most of the time. Which in turn maintains some form of customer reliability. Rex, like Tiger won’t have that ability. Which is why Tiger Management decided to move away from the old NGs and stick to conversions 10 years and younger.

How long can these NGs go on for? Boeing reckons 25 years until they will start looking at converting to freighters. They are on the home stretch right now. Looking at engineering papers, these early 00 builds, I think another 5 years is all they have left.

I really don't understand what you're on about regards conversions - means nothing in context of the discussion.

You're saying Tiger Management EVER had the opportunity to cherry pick the VA737 fleet and logically take from the newest builds decreasing - yeah, nah. Take what you're given, shut up and be grateful more the reality.
Rex are leasing, not buying, the NG's in a depressed market, if they have 5 years left of "good life" fine, if the domestic situation isn't sorted out within 3 years max I'd be amazed, reckon 18-24 months a more realistic - and generous - sorting timeframe.

[patty50]

Their OTP will also depend on their turn around times VA and QF usually good large portion of that would relate to longer turn around times 40+ minutes and less punters 160 odd with business class and plenty of ground staff to help out.


Plenty of ground staff. What a laugh.
QF are currently getting just about everyone landslide off property but there will a phone number for the punters. Flight attendants already do most of the boarding pass scanning (now 4 of them on board). The ones running jet bridges are stretched as is. Your “plenty of staff” is 2 people at the airside service desk.

Add in outsourcing too with now one less person in each ramp team. Cleaners certainly won’t be ready and waiting at the plane anymore.

QF is going to kiss goodbye any hopes of hitting 35 minute turnarounds should they become necessary.

Wasn’t VA having issues with U/S staff and cancellations only a few weeks?

Absurd to think Rex won’t be able to match the piss poor performance of the incumbents.

[Mark Altstar]

Does anyone know if the REX Australia Day flypast took place? I saw nothing in the media about it.

[C441]

Personally I find this story hard to believe and probably a bit one sided....
The flights through Normanton are part of the QLD Govt contracted routes so it’s basically impossible to leave early.
I’d guess what actually happened is the aircraft took off before scheduled departure but AFTER checkin had closed, which is 30 min before departure. Checkin closure time is the time to be aware of, not departure time.... Having spent plenty of time in the gulf and cape, pax arriving after checkin closes was a common theme.

No, it happened exactly as described. He arrived at Normanton airport well before the 30 minute check-in requirement. Apparently the flight had only a few pax onboard, who had already checked in so a decision was made to leave him behind.

To Rex's credit, they apologised profusely, including to the contractor (a large contributor to Rex's revenue) who'd paid for his flight, but that doesn't alter the detail of what happened.

Personally, despite being a recently retired Qantas staff member, I have no bias against Rex. Good on them for having a crack and employing some of our colleagues who otherwise may struggle without any support after March.

[topend3]

It'll be a quick way to burn through $150m.

[NaFenn]

A family friend experienced this in Normanton about 18 months ago. After driving 4 or 5 hours from a cattle property, he arrived comfortably before the required time to see a Rex Saab departing. On check-in he was told that the departing aircraft was indeed his flight. It had departed ahead of schedule as they had a u/s aircraft and the aircraft was needed back at the base to replace it. Rex very kindly offered to put him up at the Normanton Hotel for the (Friday) night; quite an experience for someone who'd only lived in Australia for a few years!

Whilst a one-off event, this may explain one method Rex use to ensure on-time performance!
Brilliant- depart 60 mins early to make up for 3 x 20 min late departures. OTP 100%:) These guys are going to kill it with Maggots.
Something people tend to forget is that the KPI is "on time performance"... not dont be late performance. If the flight left signifigantly early then it would still impact negatively on their OTP (From memory the requirement is the flight must depart within 15 minutes of the scheduled time)

[Ragnor]

Does anyone know if the REX Australia Day flypast took place? I saw nothing in the media about it.

Yes, there was a little article in the Australian, VA and QF both made comments about it.

[markis10]

Rex moving into jet ops has only one clear comparison in Aus history, Impulse Airlines. Even then this is not a particularly valid comparison due to the size of their respective regional networks being completely different (13- Beech 1900’s VS 60 Saab 340’s). Any other comparison to Tiger or “Australia can only handle two domestic airlines” is not particularly useful in working out who will win the QF/VA/Rex battle to come.......Despite some of the comments on here, Rex is not held up by government subsidies. QLD subsidise SOME of the regulated routes.

Your obviously too young to remember East West!

BTW Rex’s QLD network is a small part of their ops, and ALL of the regulated routes are subsidised via the tender or via the locals fare scheme which also covers unregulated routes. Passenger revenue in 2020 was $200M, government subsidies $60M

[Chill]

Despite some of the negative and clearly biased comments on here, the next 2 years or so will be interesting to watch in Aus Aviation...

Urrgh... Mngt :zzz:

They already have ground staff, HQ support, engineering, even a paint hangar at Wagga. Make no mistake, Rex will be a tough competitor to VA and QF.

"Don't call Wagga-Wagga Wagga" springs to mind :8

[McLimit]

Well, you wouldn't call Woy-Woy Woy

[Wingspar]

.....and so it starts.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-offers-49-sydney-melbourne-fares-business-class-at-199

[Green.Dot]

Very aggressive pricing. Says to me they aren’t selling as many tickets as anticipated.

A massive pain for QF and VA all the same. The war may be shorter than we think.

[Lockhart]

Very aggressive pricing. Says to me they aren’t selling as many tickets as anticipated.

A massive pain for QF and VA all the same. The war may be shorter than we think.
Just like the same aggressive pricing on their regional network.

[McLimit]

Holy Snap, that's Compass Airlines stuff :ouch:

[PoppaJo]

They are going too hard too fast. Virgin and Jetstar don’t even have 10 a day each way at the moment.

Really should have launched around July School Holidays considering recent events.

They will end up just consolidating flights until demand picks up. That’s what Tiger used to do. Rex is about to go through the start up phase which takes 6-12 months for people to even realize they are an option. The other three will go out full every single day regardless. Tiger was 4 a day for 6 months before they made the decision to move to 10. One of the few logical decisions they actually made.

[On eyre]

.....and so it starts.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-offers-49-sydney-melbourne-fares-business-class-at-199

Desperation setting in. I hope, for the country’s sake, that when this little exercise falls over it doesn’t take the regional networks with it.
WL never performs well when competition heats up.

[wheels_down]

It appears that VA wants to sink this as such as Qantas wanted to sink Tiger back in 2007.

Bain has matched the $49.

Going to be a long tough slog for Rex. Alan wasn’t convinced in the whole operation and does not appear to be interested in playing along, looks like Jayne wants the trophy for killing it off. What a career accomplishment that would be.

[Lockhart]

PAG have given 150mil and Rex have just received the first 50mil instalment. I take it it's not free money. They want some sort of return.
Just like Bain. $49 bucks would send shivers through the PAG management. If I gave 150mil I would be worried. Gutsy move Mav.

[Lookleft]

Well she already killed off Jetstar HK so she is doing what she is good at.

[Kelly Slater]

Sharp was on the news yesterday claiming there has never been a better time to launch an airline in Australia.

[1A_Please]

Sharp was on the news yesterday claiming there has never been a better time to launch an airline in Australia.
Well he would say that, wouldn't he?

[PoppaJo]

That Today Show plug would have been a paid spot, so can say whatever the hell he wants without Karl questioning the whole deal.

[1A_Please]

That Today Show plug would have been a paid spot, so can say whatever the hell he wants without Karl questioning the whole deal.
I assume 9 may have done a deal across its platforms. They were also interviewed on 3AW Breakfast which has been followed up with a number of ads as well as tweets from 3AW about what a good deal Rex is offering.

[wheels_down]

Nothing new. Kmart and all those places do similar stuff.

Expect a corny ACA story to pop up soon too.

[SHVC]

Does Rex even stand a chance here, they're kidding themself they will go broke in no time starting a capacity war.Airfare war ramps up on busiest route as Jetstar latest to slash fareshttps://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/680f97c91bdbbd0414ec1361762a50aa?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/680f97c91bdbbd0414ec1361762a50aa)Jetstar is undercutting Rex and Virgin Australia on Melbourne-Sydney, which has suddenly become the cheapest air route in the country. Picture: Bianca De Marchi/NCA NewsWireAustralia’s busiest air route of Melbourne to Sydney will also become the cheapest as an airfare war rages ahead of the launch of Rex’s new services next month.

Days after Rex cut prices to $49 a seat one way, including baggage and refreshments, Jetstar has slashed its $105 fare on the route to $29.

The bargain fare will be offered for eight hours from midday on Friday for flights in late February to April, as part of a “fare frenzy sale”.

Beyond that, Jetstar will sell one-way fares on the route from $39.

Virgin Australia has also weighed into the price war, matching Rex’s $49 fare for flights in March only booked by the end of February.

In another blow to newcomer Rex, Jetstar will increase frequency on the route, with plans to operate 88 return services a week between Melbourne and Sydney by the end of March.

Rex has scheduled nine return flights a day, or 63 a week, as the regional carrier attempts to carve out a place in the competitive capital city market.

Jetstar has also cut fares on other routes for its eight-hour sale, with Brisbane to Cairns costing $79, Adelaide to Hobart $84 and Melbourne to Uluru from $89 one way.

A statement from Jetstar said the carrier was committed to always offering the lowest fares.

“If customers find a fare that is cheaper than the fare listed on Jetstar.com, Jetstar will beat it by 10 per cent,” the statement said.

Airline executives have acknowledged that cheaper fares will be needed for some time to reinvigorate demand for air travel, devastated by the COVID-19 pandemic and border closures.

The latest domestic airfare index, compiled by the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics, showed discount prices were already at their lowest level in more than a year.

There were even greater savings to be made in business class, however, where fares were at an eight-year low of about two-thirds of normal prices.

Rex flights in Boeing 737 aircraft begin on March 1, providing state borders remain open.

The airline’s deputy chairman, John Sharp, has warned that there will be “no point” to operating services on the route if travellers are restricted in any way. In the event flights are cancelled due to COVID-19, full refunds will be available to passengers.

Virgin Australia and Qantas are both offering passengers the option of changing flight times for free, right through to January next year.

[Paragraph377]

Standing by for the REX CEO to start sooking in the media about unlevel playing fields and the usual BS that he moans about every time he is outsmarted or his flawed strategies fall apart....

[airdualbleedfault]

Would I be correct in saying that despite numerous attempts by people who were "in the know" and "going to do it differently", a third rpt airline has never lasted more than 12 months in Australia?

[On eyre]

Would I be correct in saying that despite numerous attempts by people who were "in the know" and "going to do it differently", a third rpt airline has never lasted more than 12 months in Australia?

True true. As I said previously I would only give them 6 max.
WL cannot handle competition no matter what JS says.

[SHVC]

With recent announcements in Victoria I’m sure all consumer confidence to travel to Victoria is killed untill a vaccine roll out is all most complete. Rex selling $49 seats flying 6 or so returns a day with maybe 30 punters I give them weeks not 6 months.

[SIUYA]

Would I be correct in saying that despite numerous attempts by people who were "in the know" and "going to do it differently", a third rpt airline has never lasted more than 12 months in Australia?

No, I don't think so, because:

Air North operated scheduled services from 1981
Alliance has operated since 2002, and scheduled services since 2020
Eastern Australian Airlines operated since 1949
Fly Pelican operated since 2015
Jetstar operated since 2004
Qantas domestic operated since 1992 after it merged with TAA
REX operated since 2002
Skytrans relaunched in 2015
Sunstate operated since 1986
Tigerair Australia 2007 till 2020
Virgin operated 2000 till 2020 when relaunched
VARA operated 2002 till 2020.

[1A_Please]

No, I don't think so, because:

Air North scheduled services from 1981
Alliance has operated since 2002, and scheduled services since 2020
Eastern Australian Airlines since 1949
Fly Pelican since 2015
Jetstar since 2004
Qantas domestic since 1992 after it merged with TAA
REX since 2002
Skytrans relaunched in 2015
Sunstate since 1986
Tigerair Australia 2007 till 2020
Virgin 2000 till 2020 when relaunched
VARA 2002 till 2020


I think he was talking about mainline routes where the only new entrant that has survived is Virgin on the back of Ansett's collapse. Qantas was a rebranded TAA and Jetstar is part of Qantas. New entrants like Impulse, OzJet and Compass 1 and Compass 2 all failed.

REX was a rebranded Kendall/Hazelton and only did regional Regional is a different ballgame and often supported by government subsidies or monopolies.

[Wingspar]

With recent announcements in Victoria I’m sure all consumer confidence to travel to Victoria is killed untill a vaccine roll out is all most complete. Rex selling $49 seats flying 6 or so returns a day with maybe 30 punters I give them weeks not 6 months.

They couldn’t have picked a worst time to commence this foray!

I know the planes and crew are cheap. I know the slots are there. But you need customers!

[SIUYA]

1A_Please....

I think he was talking about mainline routes where the only new entrant that has survived is Virgin

Fair enough, but that's not actually what ADBF said.

Jetstar was a relaunch of Impulse Airlines which operated in its own right from 1992 - 2001. And while Jetstar Airways in Australia and New Zealand is wholly owned by the Qantas Group, it's a separate entity under its own right with respect to the Civil Aviation Act.

REX may be a rebranded Kendall/Hazelton, and only till this point have operated regional routes, but it's still an RPT airline that's lasted more than 12 months.

OZJET operated from 2005 till 2008, so was in operation for more that 12 months.

And Compass MK 1 actually survived for a little over 12 months (Compass Mk II didn't though).

Finally, you missed Tigerair...it commenced in 2007 as Tiger Airways and wasn't taken over by Virgin till 2013 when it became Tigerair. So it also operated for more than 12 months.

I know what you were trying to get at though, so all good! :ok:

[McLimit]

With recent announcements in Victoria I’m sure all consumer confidence to travel to Victoria is killed until a vaccine roll out is all most complete.

We're all in this together, unless of course you're employed in aviation, tourism, to a slightly lesser extent hospo.

Standing by for the REX CEO to start sooking in the media about unlevel playing fields and the usual BS that he moans about every time he is outsmarted or his flawed strategies fall apart....

The whinging, bitching and moaning that's about to start may be the only thing that will put an end to the insanity of border lockdowns. Don't underestimate the power of a whinging, bitching, moaning, connected ex-politician. I'm actually looking forward to the show. (The show being, Sharp v Andrews)

[Ladloy]

We're all in this together, unless of course you're employed in aviation, tourism, to a slightly lesser extent hospo.



The whinging, bitching and moaning that's about to start may be the only thing that will put an end to the insanity of border lockdowns. Don't underestimate the power of a whinging, bitching, moaning, connected ex-politician. I'm actually looking forward to the show. (The show being, Sharp v Andrews)
I don't think Andrews will bite in an argument like that. Starting jet ops in a pandemic.... What do you expect?

[wheels_down]

400 flights have been cancelled for March.

[Ken Borough]

400 flights have been cancelled for March.

If true, the market will be brimming with confidence. What an inauspicious start?

[SHVC]

Rex canceled 400 flights for March?

[TimmyTee]

If there’s any extension to JK, or another form of support pops up for employees in Aviation, will REXs jet operations be entitled to that support? Presumably they can’t access JK for the 737 operations (because there is no comparable period from the previous years), but no doubt slimey MM will find a way to divert any new assistance packages their way

[Ladloy]

If there’s any extension to JK, or another form of support pops up for employees in Aviation, will REXs jet operations be entitled to that support? Presumably they can’t access JK for the 737 operations (because there is no comparable period from the previous years), but no doubt slimey MM will find a way to divert any new assistance packages their way
My understanding is that the jet operations are purely funded by PAG and trying to keep it as financially separate as possible to the prop operation. No JK for the jet ops and they've all been on full pay for months while the saab guys and girls struggle to pay the bills.

[MELKBQF]

https://amp.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-to-cut-routes-in-face-of-qantas-intimidation-20210222-p574k4.html

[SHVC]

On the ASQ, Sharpie already have a whinge about competition and has requested the ACCC to investigate QF predatory behavior. Kitchen already getting hot for rex.

[1A_Please]

I had to smile at this quote from REX's release to the stock exchange.

It is noteworthy that Qantas has not accepted numerous offers by Rex to enter into a collaborative partnership that optimises resources, as permitted under the authorisation, to achieve better outcomes for all stakeholders including the travelling public

in other words, we have tried to get Qantas to join us in a monopoly cartel so we can mutually screw the travelling public. REX are giving all the indications that they are struggling big time and, were it not for significant subsidies propping up their regional network, they'd be toast. As for their mainline services, I can't see it lasting and feel desperately sorry for the staff, most of whom have joined REX after a traumatic 2020 that saw them made redundant by the restructuring Virgin.

[Lookleft]

I think Sharp still considers himself to be a politician and not a businessman. Complaining that Qantas is starting to operate on routes that Rex had a monopoly on! That is what I thought business was all about, offering competition. Maybe the government connections are no longer taking his calls?

[Oriana]

Country airline Regional Express (Rex) has accused Qantas of predatory behaviour by launching flights on some of its monopoly routes and has threatened to cut off air services to some regional towns in response

By their own admission, they are operating as a monopoly (to some ports).

So when Rex jump on a route, it's competition. But when Qantas jumps on a route, it's intimidation.

Rex can't have it both ways.

[430W]

So Rex have received all these subsidies that have in fact enabled them to start the trunk route operations and then decides to use coercive tactics against these small communities that the subsidies were ultimately to keep those same routes open.

Do Rex and Sharp think this stuff through?

[Paragraph377]

Once a politician, always a politician. People like Sharp always hang around the same circle - current and former political mates and big business. He would have received leeway and a multitude of favours over the years. Ironic for someone who left Government due to getting caught out trying to make a secret $9,000 payment to cover his travel rorting tracks. 18 months as a Minister, 14 years in Government, leaves under a dark cloud and yet he still receives an AOM many years later?? That itself shows that ‘mates rates’ and political connections are working well in John’s life.

As for whinging about Qantas not wanting to do a deal with them - why would Qantas? Airlines are businesses and businesses are competitive. Qantas do not need REX. Everyone knows that REX was acting like a parasite looking to suck upon a willing host, and Qantas wasn’t willing. As for the BS about ‘doing it for the people, for the travellers, the passengers’, give me a fu#king break. Airlines are in it for the money. There is no magical love for the community and the people who fly, it’s all about the dollar. Sharp is fully aware of that, it’s just that he thinks everybody else is stupid.

The REX 737 golden triangle move is going to be an abject failure. Arrogant and cocky management who have stuffed up big time. And when it does fail, hopefully the shareholder will see it for what it is and demand the scalps of the Board and CEO. It’s only logical.

[wheels_down]

Wheeled out again today wanting 30-40 machines by the end of 2022.

Are you fu#king kidding me?

Spare us all the tears and just give up now before it even starts. I’m not joking. There is an opportunity right now to pull out of this whole impending mess.

[Fujiroll76]

9 return services....5 return services...2 return services LOL

There’s still 7 days.. will we get to 0??

[Paragraph377]

9 return services....5 return services...2 return services LOL

There’s still 7 days.. will we get to 0??

It’s becoming an embarrassment. I feel for the pilots and crews that have joined the 737 operation. Poor buggers need work, like the majority of the industry. Be sad to see their hopes dashed due to stupid management.

[jrfsp]

Surely slashing services to conserve cash is a good idea? Low fares are not going to generate customers at this point.

Without corporate demand on the golden triangle, they would be better off flying trunk leisure routes, CNS etc. Even QF is flying maximum hourly - considering this used to be every 15 mins in the peak.

I cant see corporate demand returning for another 6 months and perhaps never at all to the pre covid levels

[SHVC]

Looks like they’re down to one flight on their first day. Seen their bastardized business class is sold out tho.

[Paragraph377]

Looks like they’re down to one flight on their first day. Seen their bastardized business class is sold out tho.

Family, friends and media booked at for the pointy end for launch day perhaps?

[Going Nowhere]

QF calling Rex out.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/qantas-responds/statement-on-rex-network-announcement/

[Lookleft]

Written by Gissing no less and not some spin doctor. Rex are about to find out that if you take on Qantas you want deep pockets and a very good plan. By their own admission part of their plan was based on Virgin not being around so I think the planning part needs a bit more work.

[PoppaJo]

So what happens later this year when the NG operation is struggling? They blame Qantas and Virgin for offering flights on the same route impacting their ability to continue to survive as an ongoing concern?

[DanV2]

Unless if the likes of 'infamous' airline investors such as EY or SQ wants a 2nd (and 4th in SQ's case) go at the Australian market by wasting away money on another Australian domestic carrier, I can't see REX sticking around long with the jets.

Unfortunately it would drag their government subsidised regional routes down with them in voluntary administration if the NG jet operation sends them broke.

[Paragraph377]

So what happens later this year when the NG operation is struggling? They blame Qantas and Virgin for offering flights on the same route impacting their ability to continue to survive as an ongoing concern?

Very well spoken by Gissing. He is 100% accurate. REX has competed for other Government funded routes and succeeded in winning tenders, some of those tenders had other small airlines servicing them, such as Skytrans in Queensland. The airlines that failed in their tender submissions were impacted greatly, and in some cases drastically. But of course REX doesn’t mention that. It’s about time they stopped crying to the media, Government and CCC every time something competitive pops up. It’s called running a business, and businesses survive by being competitive.

REX has a tendency to underestimate their competition. Whether that is pride, arrogance, a belief that Sharps political mates will pull them out of the **** if necessary, who knows? But starting a 737 operation, a proposed large operation at that, in the middle of a global collapse in the middle of a pandemic based on the assumption a competitor would not fly again is one of the most stupid, arrogant, embarrassing mistakes that I have seen an airline or a large business make in decades. If they go to the wall, they have their own stupidity and their own management decisions to blame for it.

If Joyce and Hrdlicka are as smart as we are lead to believe, they will be closely watching this mess that REX has made for itself and they will be looking for ways to ‘compete with REX accordingly’, possibly to the detriment of REX. Perhaps REX ought to invest in a CEO and Board with commercial, marketing, finance and business strategy skills in the future?

[1A_Please]

Perhaps REX ought to invest in a CEO and Board with commercial, marketing, finance and business strategy skills in the future?
That assumes there is a future!!

[minigundiplomat]

This is all the responsibility of Rex's management. In a world of hungry lions, you don't allow yourself to become a bleeding zebra.

[wheels_down]

It's like they are wanting the public to feel sorry for them because they are a "country battler airline". I read this as nothing but a move to shift blame from future problems, away from itself, and to its competitors. People flying ML-SY do not give two ****s about Rex and its "heart being in the country" or whatever it is (isn't it Singapore owned?!). Completely different markets and clientele.

Look we all want it to succeed, gives our colleagues a job again, and so on, however it gets more bizarre as each week passes.

[On eyre]

Six months max

I apologise all - I was obviously too optimistic. 😳😳

[On eyre]

Desperation setting in. I hope, for the country’s sake, that when this little exercise falls over it doesn’t take the regional networks with it.
WL never performs well when competition heats up.

This needs repeating unfortunately but every passing day confirms my fears.

[SHVC]

Maybe Sharpie should of kept his comments to himself, their share value is in a slow decline whilst QF seem to be on the up.

[Green.Dot]

I sense somebody is already out there making a Rex version of the famous scene out of “Downfall”.

[LostWanderer]

This is all the responsibility of Rex's management. In a world of hungry lions, you don't allow yourself to become a bleeding zebra.

The zebra is about to be feasted on by said lions til there is but a carcass remaining. Let’s not beat around the bush, QF and VA are going to eat this new operation alive in record time.

As mentioned by many earlier, this plan only had a chance if VA didn’t exist anymore. 3 months tops before a scale down, public sympathy campaign and shuttering of the great 737 experiment. Then Rex beg the government for more $ and we are back to where we started.

I would love to be wrong on this, jobs for pilots is what we all want right now but this is looking like another OzJet type situation to me, an optimistic dream but no demand for it.

[PoppaJo]

Let’s not beat around the bush, QF and VA are going to eat this new operation alive in record time.

I don’t think Alan gives two hoots about this and will let it die on its own accord, however Jayne certainly is going it at the moment and appears wants that 🏆 for killing it. Don’t underestimate the significance that has in executive circles, the title of taking out the competition.

Bain will want to make its mark on this land and show who is boss, and taking out Rex is a major part of that.

[Keg]

I think the difference is that Alan isn’t looking at Rex and wondering if he can survive it whereas Jayne is. Jayne knows that if she doesn’t kill Rex the odds are that her corporate career is toast.

[Going Nowhere]

All I think AJ is doing right now in regards to Rex is working out which Rex port to drop a Dash into next.

[Paragraph377]

All I think AJ is doing right now in regards to Rex is working out which Rex port to drop a Dash into next.

Absolutely. Anyone who thinks that QF has no interest in what REX is doing is naive. In the current environment every passenger dollar spent flying on a REX 737 from 1 March is a passenger dollar not being potentially spent flying with Qantas. Considering REX’s so-called big picture plans regarding the golden triangle operation does grab the attention of Qantas, and so it should. “Great oaks from little acorns grow”, well at least that is how Qantas would be viewing it, VA as well. The public statement from Gissing was very well worded, and you really have to read between the lines. It was a very public Qantas warning shot across the bow of REX. ‘Going Nowhere’ is correct, and there is more than one way to skin a cat. Poke your nose into the Qantas golden triangle and see what happens. I also predict Dash 8 services popping up or increasing on certain REX routes.
To be con’t.......

[DirectAnywhere]

the odds are that her corporate career is toast.
I doubt she’s overly worried about that. Failure and incompetence has never presented much of a barrier to a lucrative corporate career in recent Australian history.

[Roj approved]

I doubt she’s overly worried about that. Failure and incompetence has never presented much of a barrier to a lucrative corporate career in recent Australian history.

Hahahaha, sadly so true

[SHVC]

In today’s Australian, Sharpie is sounding more desperate than ever. He has accused QF predatory behavior for it decision to move into smaller routes, threatening the airline could fold when commonwealth assistance ends in March. He desperately asked the ACCC to intervene. Mr Sharp failed to address Rex bold move into the golden triangle trying to lure valuable passengers from QF, JQ and VA. Who is the predator.

Appears the walls at Rex are being exposed, they’re f$&ked and have spent to much cash just realizing this jet op should of been out on the shelf for a few yrs or until the administration of VA to have been completed.

[walschaert valve]

He was on the ABC Radio National this morning too.

[MELKBQF]

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/sky-high-fight-as-rex-accuses-qantas-of-predatory-behaviour/13186280

[Paragraph377]

Right on cue hey? Not-so-Sharp blubbering to the media in typical REX style. Bunch of sooks. He seems to be quite matey with Frydenberg also, continuously referring to him as ‘Josh’. As was pointed out by Fran, only 1 out the 5 routes REX are pulling out of has Qantas flying it. Only 8 out of the 26 new routes that Qantas has starting flying in the past year are REX routes. Then you have REX entering a new market on 1 March that will compete with Qantas and VA, yet Sharp reckons that’s ok due to the passenger volumes. My god they are the biggest hypocrites and crying sooks that you will meet.

It’s COVID John, these are unprecedented times. Your incompetent mates in Government shut down the economy and sent thousands of small businesses to the wall. If REX fails then blame your mates in Government along with yourself and your CEO for making poor strategic decisions that cost you dearly. Clown.

[Brakerider]

SAAB crew just told they have to park 30
minutes walk from the terminal in Sydney while the B737 crew park at T2.

Wonder how long before the picketing starts.

[Fuel-Off]

continuously referring to him as ‘Josh’

I think you'll find that he is always referred to as Josh in political circles, even by his political adversaries. Doesn't really relate to his 'buddyship' with Sharp.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[SHVC]

Where are the SAAB crew parking now? Thought Rex owned the car park near DHL

[Ladloy]

Lim's hotel. About a 2km walk. Specifically saying no shuttle bus.

[KRUSTY 34]

Lim's hotel. About a 2km walk. Specifically saying no shuttle bus.

There used to be a shuttle for crew.

What happened?

[Ladloy]

There used to be a shuttle for crew.

What happened?
Probably burning bridges as they love doing. I have heard EBA negotiations are turning sour again for the Saab crew. The union offered a pay freeze but it sounds like the company wants a cut instead.

[Paragraph377]

Snippet from an article today in which Joyce talks about the sooks at REX;

"Rex put these colourful press releases out every now and again. I sometimes think they have Donald Trump writing for them," he said.

"You know, they're very Trumpian in a lot of ways. Very funny I have to say. We get a good laugh out of them."Mr Joyce said Rex had threatened to pull out of regional routes 13 times in recent years.

"They keep on threatening it. It's the boy that cries wolf all the time. And they've pulled off one route in that period of time," he said.The Qantas boss said his airline would be more than happy to plug some of the gaps if Rex vacated the routes.He also whacked the regional carrier for complaining about the financial support Qantas had received during the coronavirus pandemic, saying Rex had pocketed seven times more, based on the size of the businesses."

”So I don't think they can complain about government support," Mr Joyce said.

Ha Ha Ha. So true. Idiots Sharp and Lim, they need to grow up and grow a set. Sooks.

[McLimit]

Personally, I would like to thank REX very much, without doubt they are the best airline in Australia, thanks to them, 3 airfares booked for a total of $377.50 on Virgin ;) thanks Sharpy, legend.

[wheels_down]

Sharpie on A Current Affair tonight (I assume paid advertisement)

[dr dre]

Sharpie on A Current Affair tonight (I assume paid advertisement)

It was a massive paid advertisement. That’s all ACA and similar commercial media shows are, pure product placement dressed up as news. Not one actual critical bit of journalism, just let Sharp spout whatever fantasy rubbish he wants like the typical politician he is.

I love the bit when he said Covid was the perfect time to start the airline because all the problems like pilot shortage and gate space aren’t there anymore, did you forget about the whole no passengers thing too John?

[Wingspar]

It was a massive paid advertisement. That’s all ACA and similar commercial media shows are, pure product placement dressed up as news. Not one actual critical bit of journalism, just let Sharp spout whatever fantasy rubbish he wants like the typical politician he is.

I love the bit when he said Covid was the perfect time to start the airline because all the problems like pilot shortage and gate space aren’t there anymore, did you forget about the whole no passengers thing too John?

Exactly Doc.

Number one rule in business. Don’t make a product you want, make a product the consumer wants!

[The Golden Rivet]

Mmmmm Rex B737 currently @ MAP Whisky 2 with engines being taped up and exhaust plugs being fitted

[lc_461]

Plenty of $49 ML-SY fares in the second week of March still for sale.. doesn't suggest loads are that great

[Paragraph377]

REX increased its half year profit by 45% to $9.9m. So Mr Sharp should hardly be complaining about an unfair playing field as VA went bust and QF’s profits are down by around $800m. So what will be the next install me t of the ‘Sharp and Lim’ show? A guest appearance on an Oprah special? Maybe a direct appeal to the IMF to give their airline money? ****

[wheels_down]

REX increased its half year profit by 45% to $9.9m. So Mr Sharp should hardly be complaining about an unfair playing field as VA went bust and QF’s profits are down by around $800m. So what will be the next install me t of the ‘Sharp and Lim’ show? A guest appearance on an Oprah special? Maybe a direct appeal to the IMF to give their airline money? ****
That $9.9m will be burnt by Easter.

[longlegs]

Hardly an epic dustup between Joyce and Sharpe when the Qantas half year results show clear as day Qantas are leasing two Pelair SAABs. Hardly what would happen with your sworn enemies!!! The refueller at Forrest's guess is the REX/QF pony show and the media shenanigans that come with it are all the beginning of a well organised and joint crack at running Bain and their borrowed squillions right out of town. And way too smart to ever raise an eyebrow of the plods at ACCC HQ.

[Green.Dot]

Hardly an epic dustup between Joyce and Sharpe when the Qantas half year results show clear as day Qantas are leasing two Pelair SAABs.

Hardly a reason to say they are mates either. 2 leased aircraft is not exactly revolutionary for a company that has hundreds.

AJ has VA exactly where he wants them. They are a known quantity in a much weaker form than pre COVID. More likely he and Jane are in talks with how to deal with Rex in a timely fashion to benefit both of them.

[Ladloy]

Hardly an epic dustup between Joyce and Sharpe when the Qantas half year results show clear as day Qantas are leasing two Pelair SAABs. Hardly what would happen with your sworn enemies!!! The refueller at Forrest's guess is the REX/QF pony show and the media shenanigans that come with it are all the beginning of a well organised and joint crack at running Bain and their borrowed squillions right out of town. And way too smart to ever raise an eyebrow of the plods at ACCC HQ.
Lim Kim Hai and Alan Joyce were regularly seen together at the Branksome hotel (owned by LKH) pre covid, around the same time qlink was planning to head into kangaroo Island, orange and merimbula.

[Green.Dot]

The load factors on tomorrow’s flights will be rather interesting.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x912/a95cc146_af6c_485f_905e_272517774b44_816c0bc920e00dfe1fe967e 07c4a4d27eaccbe6d.jpeg

[PoppaJo]

If you can’t stimulate demand from low fares we have a problem.

[MickG0105]

This is exercise is essentially dead on arrival. Grand launch day tomorrow and they have already cancelled most of the originally touted nine daily Sydney-Melbourne return flights and parked up half of their shiny not-so-new toys. They'll launch tomorrow with just one operating jet and only three flights in each direction.

[lc_461]

I think consumer sentiment in regards to interstate travel is quite low at the moment. Anecdotally many tried/did holidays in December when things opened up... then the Premiers intervened and closed borders. Especially on the VIC side, I think many will know or know of people who got caught up in that ridiculousness of 'dash' to the border around NYE or were a Victorian resident unable to return to VIC if they were in NSW.
If these sentiments ring true even "free" airfares wouldn't encourage travellers to visit NSW from VIC.

We still have a long way to go yet....

[McLimit]

Come on Sharpy, get in there son, your mob are the smartest in the room, I need a few more cheap Virgin fares. And when is Brisbane opening up?

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex has announced it will begin twice-daily Boeing 737 flights to OOL from SYD and MEL along with MEL-ADL by April 1. No kidding!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-expands-sydney-melbourne-flights-to-gold-coast-adelaide

[minigundiplomat]

More likely he and Jane are in talks with how to deal with Rex in a timely fashion to benefit both of them.

Hopefully not, that would be a breach of anti-trust laws.

[SHVC]

What was the loads like on this first flight? How many were Rex staff?

[Icarus2001]

Hopefully not, that would be a breach of anti-trust laws.

I think you have been watching too many US movies or television.

https://www.accc.gov.au/business/anti-competitive-behaviour

[pinkpanther1]

Rex has announced it will begin twice-daily Boeing 737 flights to OOL from SYD and MEL along with MEL-ADL by April 1. No kidding!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-expands-sydney-melbourne-flights-to-gold-coast-adelaide

I'm surprised how quickly they dumped their Golden Triangle plan. Seems like things are chopping and changing, clutching at straws already?

[Saintly]

We all know REX are a big and successful player in the regional airline market.

But a question?Why do they want to fly on domestic routes? They should stick to what they do best and they do a good job. Is it pure greed? Or is REX wanting to spread their wings reed? Or another reason?

But good luck to REX. The airline jet war has begun.

[dr dre]

But a question?Why do they want to fly on domestic routes? They should stick to what they do best and they do a good job. Is it pure greed? Or is REX wanting to spread their wings reed? Or another reason?


Simple. They sensed that VA was about to collapse and thought they would be the one to fill the void. They admitted their business model depends on VA ceasing operations in a leaked investor presentation. So they started up their jet operation with taxpayer dollars and hope that they will outlast VA over the coming months, otherwise they’ll cease ops and as John Sharp has already demonstrated will save face by having a massive sook at all their competitors for not “playing fair”.....

[Saintly]

Simple. They sensed that VA was about to collapse and thought they would be the one to fill the void. They admitted their business model depends on VA ceasing operations in a leaked investor presentation. So they started up their jet operation with taxpayer dollars and hope that they will outlast VA over the coming months, otherwise they’ll cease ops and as John Sharp has already demonstrated will save face by having a massive sook at all their competitors for not “playing fair”.....


Ok thats interesting. Lets see how long REX last in the jet market routes

[Chris2303]

Lets see how long REX last.

Fixed that for you.....

[Ladloy]

I'm surprised how quickly they dumped their Golden Triangle plan. Seems like things are chopping and changing, clutching at straws already?
Brisbane is planned for June.

[Saintly]

Fixed that for you.....
yep, cheers

[1A_Please]

Brisbane is planned for June.
Can't help thinking that June is a long way away for REX right now!!

[Fujiroll76]

For those playing at home

the 7.00 departure for QF was full
the 7.20 for jetstar had 17 seats free.

fair to say Rex lost out on this one..I’d be surprised if they had anymore than 20% of paying pax

[Tubman601]

For those playing at home

the 7.00 departure for QF was full
the 7.20 for jetstar had 17 seats free.

fair to say Rex lost out on this one..I’d be surprised if they had anymore than 20% of paying pax

Fair to say you don’t know, just REX bashing. I don’t work for them or either of the others but I like to see everyone given a fair go and people in jobs.

[Fujiroll76]

Fair to say you don’t know, just REX bashing. I don’t work for them or either of the others but I like to see everyone given a fair go and people in jobs.


Fair go and Rex shouldn’t be used in the same sentence.

[1A_Please]

Hardly a reason to say they are mates either. 2 leased aircraft is not exactly revolutionary for a company that has hundreds.

AJ has VA exactly where he wants them. They are a known quantity in a much weaker form than pre COVID. More likely he and Jane are in talks with how to deal with Rex in a timely fashion to benefit both of them.
Not a fan of Rex but I would hope AJ and JK are not in talks colluding how to deal with Rex. Such action would be against the law and leave both of the larger airlines liable to huge fines.

[Icarus2001]

Not a fan of Rex but I would hope AJ and JK are not in talks colluding how to deal with Rex. Such action would be against the law and leave both of the larger airlines liable to huge fines i needed a good laugh this afternoon.

[PoppaJo]

Watch out Alan!

Qantas is a very competitive operator,” said Rex’s deputy chairman John Sharp at the boarding gate. “They’re already at 70 per cent of the domestic market but Alan Joyce wants more. So we’ll give him a good run for his money.

“Rex has been around a long time and has a long track record. We’re not amateurs, we’re not beginners, we’re not the new boys on the block – all we’re doing is scaling up to a slightly more expanded business.”

[On eyre]

Watch out Alan!

Really - well in the game they are trying to enter they are definitely the new boys on the block and it’s a completely different one to the regional sandpit they’ve played in before where they were the bully boys.

[SHVC]

I have heard by good authority, over 3/4 of that inaugural flight today were not paying passengers.

[Icarus2001]

That would be pretty typical of a first flight, or an opening night of a new show. Papering the house is a normal SOP.

Filled with management types, media, "influencers" and assorted CIPs.

[wheels_down]

Day 1 and VOP is broken already.

(I mean it never was the most reliable thing around, no surprise in the Virgin camp)

[PoppaJo]

Which is why the others don’t need to be worried. The same challenges that Tiger had around fleet will be no different here. Which in turn destroys the brand value and it’s all just downhill from there.

Please tell me they have at least one spare?

[MickG0105]

Day 1 and VOP is broken already.

(I mean it never was the most reliable thing around, no surprise in the Virgin camp)
Back in the air now after a 2+ hour delay.

Any idea what the problem was?

[industry insider]

GT was very brave on Sunrise this morning, risking his Chairman's membership by saying REX will survive.

[dijical]

Day 1 and VOP is broken already.

(I mean it never was the most reliable thing around, no surprise in the Virgin camp)

It looks to me that all flights on day 1 were on time (except the last one - due to a faulty aerobridge).
Am I missing something?

[wheels_down]

It looks to me that all flights on day 1 were on time (except the last one - due to a faulty aerobridge).
Am I missing something?

I’m not hearing faulty aerobridge.

[TimmyTee]

2 hour delay due to a faulty aerobridge..?
Does the term Rex Angels need bringing into the pprune Lexicon?

[Wingspar]

It looks to me that all flights on day 1 were on time (except the last one - due to a faulty aerobridge).
Am I missing something?

A good delay PA never lays any guilt on the pilot!

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex is now talking up SYD-CBR flights, using a mixed fleet of 737s and SAABs: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-eyes-sydney-canberra-flights

Interesting that John Sharp now stressing that the SYD-MEL schedule of "up to 9 flights a day" was only ever an "up to" and that they could reduce frequency if demand isn't there and use the 737s to serve other markets, open other routes. I suppose it will all depend on how much money those other airports will throw at them.

[MickG0105]

...
Interesting that John Sharp now stressing that the SYD-MEL schedule of "up to 9 flights a day" was only ever an "up to" and that they could reduce frequency if demand isn't there and use the 737s to serve other markets, open other routes.
Sharpie might want to try reading Rex's own media releases before trying to gaslight us. Rex's media release REX LAUNCHES INTO SYDNEY – MELBOURNE 100,000 TICKETS ON SALE FROM $79 (https://www.rex.com.au/BlobViewer/BlobViewer.aspx?attachtype=MR&filename=4D7156337376346B66764B76447143434474514170506D78334 453646C65794F44735832782F4B70415A4E31524852476D732B536F47364 247645837694859414978414F314E676859516F3D) of 2 December was unequivocal. It quotes none other than 'Rex Deputy Chairman, the Hon John Sharp AM' himself saying,

The first 3 Rex Boeing 737-800s will take off between Sydney and Melbourne on 1 March 2021. Rex will begin with 9 Sydney-Melbourne return services a day.

And directly below that is the schedule showing nine return flights a day. Up until about three weeks ago they were selling fares on all nine flights in each direction.

That media release was also issued to the ASX as an official announcement so the ASX's Listing Rule 3 (... an officer or employee of a listed entity who gives, or authorises or permits the giving of, materially false or misleading information to ASX under Listing Rule 3.1 (including in response to any enquiry ASX may make of the entity under that rule) may commit a criminal offence ...) and Section 1041E(1) False or misleading statements of the Corporations Act 2001 (Cth) come into play there.

In the meantime Sharpie might want to address why -RQC (nee -VOP) was delayed by 40 minutes out of Melbourne just now. Another faulty aerobridge?

[wheels_down]

SYD-CBR is largely corporate contracts tied up with Virgin and Qantas. Little to no leisure. That corridor is highly dependent on frequency also.

However, MEL-CBR Tiger was twice a day, wouldn’t that be more logical?

Feels like we are just throwing darts at the map now?

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex even cut its inaugural schedule by half, didn't it? Not a good look on Day 1.

Apparently the inaugural flights were running at decent loads but mainly media and aviation geeks, not a lot of 'normal' passengers. Rex also cut is own launch pricing from $79 in economy and $299 in business to $49 in economy and $199 in business across March, so things can't be going very well for them.

If this Boeing 737 capital city service ends up being an expensive white elephant for Rex, you'd have to assume Sharp would be among the many to lose their jobs over it.

[lc_461]

SYD-CBR is largely corporate contracts tied up with Virgin and Qantas. Little to no leisure. That corridor is highly dependent on frequency also.

However, MEL-CBR Tiger was twice a day, wouldn’t that be more logical?

Feels like we are just throwing darts at the map now?

VA not flying SYD-CBR at the moment, maybe there's an opportunity there. Although for leisure, most drive...
Lots of new flights from CBR over the past few months, with Alliance, Fly Corporate as well as QF starting new routes.

[TimmyTee]

What time did the 5pm Mel-Syd get away this evening? (ZL152)

[SHVC]

The way it’s going it might not even get into Sydney. Why is there so many delays with them?

[Chris2303]

What time did the 5pm Mel-Syd get away this evening? (ZL152)

According FR24 it is taxiing now

[Ladloy]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/559x562/screenshot_20210303_071716_564090d5563813b86fe97dc4897993e1a 5c6b72c.jpg
Imagine making Saab drivers redundant while expanding jet operations. What a morally bankrupt company.

[Fujiroll76]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/559x562/screenshot_20210303_071716_564090d5563813b86fe97dc4897993e1a 5c6b72c.jpg
Imagine making Saab drivers redundant while expanding jet operations. What a morally bankrupt company.

The jet op needs to be financed somehow. Unfortunately it will be at the expense of the hard working SAAB crew who made Rex a reasonable regional player.

Will be all for nothing in the end, this joke business plan will fail miserably.

[MickG0105]

Looks very much like RQC was involved in a rejected take-off just a short while ago. Pushed back and taxied to 16R, accelerated to 80 kts and then decelerated and exited on A3. Now back at the gate it would appear.

[Icarus2001]

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-rqc#26f76c52

[Green.Dot]

The “country hospitality” will keep the punters happy though

[1A_Please]

Looks very much like RQC was involved in a rejected take-off just a short while ago. Pushed back and taxied to 16R, accelerated to 80 kts and then decelerated and exited on A3. Now back at the gate it would appear.
This sort of reliability makes you sentimental for the good old Tiger days....

[1A_Please]

Looks very much like RQC was involved in a rejected take-off just a short while ago. Pushed back and taxied to 16R, accelerated to 80 kts and then decelerated and exited on A3. Now back at the gate it would appear.
Bizarrely FR24 currently shows ZL31 SYD-MEL as being operated by a Saab 340B VH-REX. It either means FR is having a kaniption or ZL has resorted to using a Saab to maintain some timetable integrity. It also means they could fit the pax from a 180 seat 737 onto a 34 seat Saab!

[WipperSnapper]

Bizarrely FR24 currently shows ZL31 SYD-MEL as being operated by a Saab 340B VH-REX. It either means FR is having a kaniption or ZL has resorted to using a Saab to maintain some timetable integrity. It also means they could fit the pax from a 180 seat 737 onto a 34 seat Saab!

VH-REX was reassigned from a SAAB to ex-Virgin 737 VH-VUU.