REX to transition to ATRs, start domestic jet ops

[MickG0105]

Bizarrely FR24 currently shows ZL31 SYD-MEL as being operated by a Saab 340B VH-REX. It either means FR is having a kaniption or ZL has resorted to using a Saab to maintain some timetable integrity. It also means they could fit the pax from a 180 seat 737 onto a 34 seat Saab!
Yep, as WipperSnapper notes -REX is now one of the ex-VA jets.

Interesting flight though if FR24 data is correct - never flew above 28,000 feet. A sign it was despatched with a fault perhaps? - air pack or pax oxygen problem?

[ANCDU]

Interesting flight though if FR24 data is correct - never flew above 28,000 feet. A sign it was despatched with a fault perhaps? - air pack or pax oxygen problem?

Or just perhaps strong winds up high and they wanted to make up some lost time flying out of the winds. Flying SYD-MEL at lower levels is commonplace to get out of the winds if required.

[MickG0105]

Or just perhaps strong winds up high and they wanted to make up some lost time flying out of the winds. Flying SYD-MEL at lower levels is commonplace to get out of the winds if required.
Mmm ... never say never but I don't think so. Their flight time was no quicker than other SYD-MEL flights around the same to going to FL340 and above.

[galdian]

Yep, as WipperSnapper notes -REX is now one of the ex-VA jets.

Interesting flight though if FR24 data is correct - never flew above 28,000 feet. A sign it was despatched with a fault perhaps? - air pack or pax oxygen problem?

Pax oxygen either is fully available or totally not available - nothing in between from memory.
Pack fault/Bleed Airfault limited to FL250 FOR DISPATCH.

Strong winds and/or getting best TAS ie making up time the most logical explanation, I'm assuming they're still planned 30 min turnarounds which was always an interesting, if somewhat unrealistic IMHO, intention.

Cheers.

[Green.Dot]

Don’t overthink it too much Mick. I’m with ANCDU.

If they had a pack out it’s limited to FL250 from dispatch anyway.

[MickG0105]

Pax oxygen either is fully available or totally not available - nothing in between from memory.
Pack fault/Bleed Airfault limited to FL250 FOR DISPATCH.

Strong winds and/or getting best TAS ie making up time the most logical explanation, I'm assuming they're still planned 30 min turnarounds which was always an interesting, if somewhat unrealistic IMHO, intention.

Cheers.

Don’t overthink it too much Mick. I’m with ANCDU. If they had a pack out it’s limited to FL250 from dispatch anyway.
Fair enough, happy to defer to experience.

​​​​​​​It is probably worth noting though that -REX wasn't belting down to Melbourne for a quick turn around. It's still on the ground.

-PAG looks to be picking up from -RQC. And -PAG had left Melbourne before -REX arrived.

[TimmyTee]

Wonder if the scheduled 1430 will make it out before curfew..

[Keg]

Yep, as WipperSnapper notes -REX is now one of the ex-VA jets.

Interesting flight though if FR24 data is correct - never flew above 28,000 feet. A sign it was despatched with a fault perhaps? - air pack or pax oxygen problem?

FL280 was the best TAS altitude on the 767 (330/0.83 from memory). I think it would be similar for the 737. FL300 for the A330. Used if I’m running late and/or I can get my snout in front of the preceding aircraft and beat them in.

[galdian]

FL280 was the best TAS altitude on the 767 (330/0.83 from memory). I think it would be similar for the 737. FL300 for the A330. Used if I’m running late and/or I can get my snout in front of the preceding aircraft and beat them in.

On the classic the difference in TAS between FL290+/- and FL350/FL370 was substantial, from memory some 20-25kts which when combined with the expected far lesser headwind really added up.
On the NG only a couple of knots bonus in TAS, overall have to be a substantial gradient to make the exercise worthwhile especially if you could be sipping fual at FL410.

Cheers

[Fujiroll76]

Stunning start to the Rex circus

152 - 60 mins late yesterday and hasnt even left the gate today. What a shambles

121 - 3hrs 40 delay (so far)


I mean yes teething issues BUT when 5 of the first 6 flights are late it’s laughable.

[wheels_down]

Tiger had the same dramas when launching the NG. OTP sunk to 55%. It wasn’t just 30 minutes late here and there, they dispatched flights 3/4/5 hours late every single day.

So is it the old Virgin machines like Tiger also took that are the issue? I don’t recall Virgin having such issues. Perhaps Virgin having engineers at the ready in every big port ensured the issues were fixed quickly and the schedule holds.

[jrfsp]

Id imagine this is more that these frames had been sat around for months. Not unusual to have issues getting them back into service.

[Australopithecus]

Especially well used airframes. Sitting around for months usually leads to a couple of weeks of crankiness, much more in my own case.

How old are those Rex jets? The oldest NG I have flown is 18 years old, and while better than the 2nd gen 737, still not the paragon of reliability virtue that the spoiled punter has come to expect.

[MickG0105]

How old are those Rex jets?
-RQC (formerly VA's VOP) - 17.4 yrs
-RQG (formerly VUF) - 15.9 yrs (yet to make an appearance in this fiasco)
-REX (formerly VUU) - 11 yrs
-PAG (formerly VUV) - 10.8 yrs

Not sure about the other two.

[PoppaJo]

I have seen these aircraft around the traps for the last few months. Having a quick look they appear to have done a hundred plus flights in the last few months.

Ample time to iron out iron out the kinks.

Is it a case of engineer on call out hence the large wait times?

[SHVC]

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-rqc#26f76c52

From G it seems, must be on the light side hey?!

[Green.Dot]

From G it seems, must be on the light side hey?!.

These comments are just embarrassing

[1A_Please]

-RQC (formerly VA's VOP) - 17.4 yrs
-RQG (formerly VUF) - 15.9 yrs (yet to make an appearance in this fiasco)
-REX (formerly VUU) - 11 yrs
-PAG (formerly VUV) - 10.8 yrs

Not sure about the other two.
They are not particularly old and younger than a lot of QF's 737s. I think the issue may be the engineering support for the fleet is spread pretty thin and rapid response just isn't available. How they plan to manage when they spread across additional ports is beyond me.

[blubak]

They are not particularly old and younger than a lot of QF's 737s. I think the issue may be the engineering support for the fleet is spread pretty thin and rapid response just isn't available. How they plan to manage when they spread across additional ports is beyond me.
The oldest QF 800s arrived in early to mid 2002,they were the ones destined for American but came to QF instead due to 9/11 & Ansett going under.
Dont think their reliability is worth boasting about right now,its being covered up by the availability of plenty of under utilised spare aircraft sitting around.

[Icarus2001]

https://www.rex.com.au/MediaAndPressClippings/MediaReleaseList.aspx?y=2021

Adding Adelaide-Melbourne and Melbourne-Gold Coast services late March.

[PoppaJo]

They appear to be going after the Tiger network.

Cairns would be next I guess.

[minigundiplomat]

Cairns would be next I guess.

I am sure Jetstar, Qantas, Virgin and Alliance will be down with that.

[Agent_86]

I think the issue may be the engineering support for the fleet is spread pretty thin and rapid response just isn't available.

This problem occurred during DJ's 'infancy' in PER too. With one SBE (Airframe) and 1 Avionics LAME on the DJ Tech Payroll in PER, there was many a time when an a/c went tech it was a case of sitting around waiting for an Engineer to show or at worse case, begrudgingly, paying QF for support.

[Paragraph377]

This problem occurred during DJ's 'infancy' in PER too. With one SBE (Airframe) and 1 Avionics LAME on the DJ Tech Payroll in PER, there was many a time when an a/c went tech it was a case of sitting around waiting for an Engineer to show or at worse case, begrudgingly, paying QF for support.
Plus at start up DJ picked up a complete lemon from AN - the unforgettable VH-CZQ. That bucket of sh#t spent more time U/S than it did flying cycles.

[Ken Borough]

A certain Qantas subsidiary had a fleet of older B763s based in Cairns. They were very well utllised but rarely delayed due to mechanical issues. Why? They were tended to by a dedicated team of ground engineers who treated the aeroplanes as their own. I suspect the lack if real engineering support and spares inventory may be the root of Rex’s reliability issues.

[Agent_86]

Plus at start up DJ picked up a complete lemon from AN - the unforgettable VH-CZQ. That bucket of sh#t spent more time U/S than it did flying cycles.

P377 this was their early 737-800's and -700's they used on the MEL/PER/ADL/PER/MEL route.

[Green.Dot]

P377 this was their early 737-800's and -700's they used on the MEL/PER/ADL/PER/MEL route.

It was a classic not an NG

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/03/accc-backs-qantas-in-rex-network-row/

[Paragraph377]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/03/accc-backs-qantas-in-rex-network-row/

Hilarious stuff. The REX Board Chair and CEO need to go. A pair of morons that continually cry about legitimate competition in a business environment. It actually shows that they are out of their league and don’t understand the industry they work in. If they spent more time concentrating on generating revenue by strategically growing their airline they may be in a better position to take on competition by offering a more competitive and better option. That would be time well spent, rather than lazily just expecting things to fall into their lap like some miracle from heaven, and when it doesn’t happen they go to the newspapers, political parties, A Current Affair and any other place that has a listening ear and some tissues to wipe up their tears.

Deadwood duo

[Climb150]

Hilarious stuff. The REX Board Chair and CEO need to go. A pair of morons that continually cry about legitimate competition in a business environment. It actually shows that they are out of their league and don’t understand the industry they work in. If they spent more time concentrating on generating revenue by strategically growing their airline they may be in a better position to take on competition by offering a more competitive and better option. That would be time well spent, rather than lazily just expecting things to fall into their lap like some miracle from heaven, and when it doesn’t happen they go to the newspapers, political parties, A Current Affair and any other place that has a listening ear and some tissues to wipe up their tears.

Deadwood duo
You mean like when AJ went crying to the Govt a few years ago saying they needed bailing out and then posted a bumper profit a year later?

It's all b*ll**** PR and it's not only the little guys who do it.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Nice to see a fair and honest review of the Rex B737 business class even if the journo was comp'd like all other media: https://www.executivetraveller.com/review-regional-express-rex-boeing-737-business-class

Can't wait for Rex to begin flying SYD-PER so GT can gush over how great Rex is, at risk of losing his Qantas Chairmans Lounge membership of course!

[airdualbleedfault]

I'm not sure how Rex will compete with virgin's cardboard box chock full of fat and calories :} They say Vs new catering around March... I wouldn't be holding my breath :hmm:

[wheels_down]

The next headwind in the industry is looking like its going the way of this soaring oil price.

Hopefully Rex are spending more time analysing this vs Virgin’s sandwiches.

They don’t have much (well zero) ability to wear any fuel surges.

[Icarus2001]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1484x1070/chartb_01032021_4b46d60bf2105fdb93e3d31b7d1616d7b02973cc.png
I am not sure I would call it soaring but up to you.

[wheels_down]

It’s back to pre pandemic levels. Production is not increasing in the near term.

American raised concerns at recent earnings call saying all eyes are on it this quarter.

Analysts expect it to crack $100 by years end.

Rex can not sustain prices that high.

[Icarus2001]

Analysts huh. I guess those guys must know a thing or two about prices.:}

The price is indeed approaching pre pandemic levels, with low demand it cannot rise much higher. Northern winter is ending so demand for crude will be dropping.

We shall see, let’s revisit this in six months eh?

[Paragraph377]

We shall see, let’s revisit this in six months eh?

Yes, let’s do that. Oil, like any commodity has its price manipulated by puppet masters. Prices are decided depending on a number of agendas, so nothing surprises me. Inflated oil prices are always just a middle eastern war away, and America does have another President who is the lapdog to the military industrial complex. True demand is certainly lower at this moment than this time 18 months ago, yet prices are rising again. I only checked yesterday and I think it was $61 per barrel or thereabouts. Anyway, if it hits $100 per barrel we will have some serious issues as not many airlines can break even at $100 per barrel.

[McLimit]

Anyway, if it hits $100 per barrel we will have some serious issues as not many airlines can break even at $100 per barrel.

And yet life goes on..........well not in the present, ninnies and babies have seen to that. The most important factor facing aviation and society in general is making sure all our precious boomers can get through these critical times. Mobilising mental health services cos when they get through their present health crisis (fear, paranoia, look at me) they're going to need counselling for the inevitable PTSD.

'save all boomers'

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

You guys are doing it again. Stick to the topic. We’re tired of this other BS and it has no place on PPRuNe,

[McLimit]

You guys are doing it again. Stick to the topic. We’re tired of this other BS and it has no place on PPRuNe,

Hey brah, there are threads full of it on prune, if it has no place, what's it doing here? Plenty of opportunity for it to be deleted but it hasn't been.

And I think everybody has had an absolute GUTFUL of it, yet it goes on and on and on and on and..............................

[Paragraph377]

Hey brah, there are threads full of it on prune, if it has no place, what's it doing here? Plenty of opportunity for it to be deleted but it hasn't been.

And I think everybody has had an absolute GUTFUL of it, yet it goes on and on and on and on and..............................

Best bit is this - if you don’t like it, don’t read it. It’s called exercising your free will. Don’t complain about it, just move on. Such a simple principle that even a child can do it!

[McLimit]

100% right mate :ok:

[Paragraph377]

100% right mate :ok:

Meanwhile, the afternoon sun on my back, smell of the earth, a little water on the garden and the dulcet tones of David Gilmore and Pink Floyd circa 1973. I'm feeling comfortably numb. Life is good.

[McLimit]

Don't forget a bit of Roger Waters, as well as his solo stuff his gigs are doing a bit more Floyd. Waters says Gilmore is a genius, he'd have 3 guitars trying to cover what Gilmore did on one :ok:

[hoss]

Paragraph377, please don’t be offended but I think there might be a chance that we are related.😉👍

[Paragraph377]

Paragraph377, please don’t be offended but I think there might be a chance that we are related.😉👍

Could very well be my friend. As for being offended, I have broad shoulders and it’s usually me that offends everybody else. 😊

[McLimit]

As for being offended, I have broad shoulders and it’s usually me that offends everybody else.

Well, you gotta look at who and what you're offending, there's not a lot of intellectual capital there. So the offence threshold is way down.

[Servo]

Article recently mentioned that Paul Scurrah was on the attendee list for Rex's inaugural flight party..... Interesting. He has worked for Rex before. Early days.

Would have thought that there would be no compete clauses thrown around. Or are they not a thing in the inner circle of mates that are airline companies in Australia.

[Icarus2001]

Would have thought that there would be no compete clauses thrown around. How is being on the inaugural flight competing with VA?

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/is-former-virgin-ceo-paul-scurrah-set-to-fly-back-to-rex/

[wheels_down]

Article recently mentioned that Paul Scurrah was on the attendee list for Rex's inaugural flight party..... Interesting. He has worked for Rex before. Early days.

Would have thought that there would be no compete clauses thrown around. Or are they not a thing in the inner circle of mates that are airline companies in Australia.
I really don’t think Bain give two ****s about all these ex useless Virgin Managers and who they work for.

They are all clueless. They will all just rock up at Rex Virginise it. Worked well for Tiger.

[Paragraph377]

I really don’t think Bain give two ****s about all these ex useless Virgin Managers and who they work for. They are all clueless. They will all just rock up at Rex Virginise it. Worked well for Tiger.
In fact, if I was the VA CEO I would be pleased to see the former VA deadwood and deadbeats turning up at other airline functions as that means that the dross might take their uselessness and introduce it to the opposition airline, and that would be a good thing for VA.

[Global Aviator]

In fact, if I was the VA CEO I would be pleased to see the former VA deadwood and deadbeats turning up at other airline functions as that means that the dross might take their uselessness and introduce it to the opposition airline, and that would be a good thing for VA.

Is that in the same vein as an ex JQ CEO now CEO?

[TBM-Legend]

Is that in the same vein as an ex JQ CEO now CEO?

Australia all over! The gene pool for executives revolves around recycling hazbeens and I guess lezbeens in all areas of this society starting with politicians and others....

[Servo]

How is being on the inaugural flight competing with VA?

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/is-former-virgin-ceo-paul-scurrah-set-to-fly-back-to-rex/

I was more thinking along the lines of Paul might be stepping into the CEO job or COO position at Rex, is all. Sorry.

But others have clarified it is very common, Andrew David, Miss Jayne etc etc.

Paul would still have some knowledge of the new direction Bain is going, some of which would not be common knowledge.
​​​​​​When talking about dross, Miss Jayne knows a thing or two or was that five...... Strategic pillars that one can print out and put in their bathroom to remind you how lucky you are and how it will make a VA successful.

Still a lot of dross at VA.

[wheels_down]

I think everyone is underestimating the power that VA and QF hold and how weak ZL actually is. Weaker than Tiger.

Yes Virgin has problems being worked through which will take 12-24 months to get the basics right. Qantas has debt issues and will exit with a ****load of it.

I’m just trying to work out what passenger Rex is actually trying to target with this now ‘on and off’ schedule that Sharp pointed at last week. Even Tiger held a firm seasonal schedule.

Rex has a online Check-in which does not work, it has a website that resonates with the year 2005, its ‘change your booking’ platform has been offline since mid December. I can change a Virgin booking on the app in about 60 seconds, even then they claim their Digital platforms are not adequate, and are investing more in Digital over the next 5 years than Rex is injecting into its 737 dream.

It’s clear who is going to be left behind next year and it’s not Jayne or Alan. Watching Scurrah tinker with Rex and it’s 737s will be quite amusing.

[On eyre]

So with the last Rexjet flight for the first week just departing Sydney, what’s the verdict ?
Someone must have been looking at loads and OTP. Todays loads might be an aberration following the SCC show last night.
I still reckon six months might be an overestimate for survival despite the PR blurb about route expansion.

[On eyre]

So with the last Rexjet flight for the first week just departing Sydney, what’s the verdict ?
Someone must have been looking at loads and OTP. Todays loads might be an aberration following the SCC show last night.
I still reckon six months might be an overestimate for survival despite the PR blurb about route expansion.

Wow - not a word - is the thread being censored ?

[Icarus2001]

I am guessing that people feel one week of operation is too short a time frame to declare a "verdict". I know I do.
Rex have set themselves a huge task and it is pretty clear they did not expect VA to still be operating.
Best of luck to the boys and girls and I hope it works for them. We are all better off by having more jet operators in this country, both as pilots and as consumers.

[On eyre]

I am guessing that people feel one week of operation is too short a time frame to declare a "verdict". I know I do.
Rex have set themselves a huge task and it is pretty clear they did not expect VA to still be operating.
Best of luck to the boys and girls and I hope it works for them. We are all better off by having more jet operators in this country, both as pilots and as consumers.

Appreciate that - I wasn’t looking for a verdict on survival but rather some indication of the first weeks performance - should have worded it a bit differently.

[Derfred]

We are all better off by having more jet operators in this country, both as pilots and as consumers.

To a point, maybe, providing those jet operators remain solvent.

I don’t think pilots or consumers are better off by endless repetitions of jet operators going under, only to be replaced by the next entrepreneur offering even lower pay and conditions.

And when they are “successful”, they tend to get swallowed up by one of the two majors anyway - ala Impulse, Skywest, Network. QF is already making inroads into Alliance.

I can’t see Rex jets being successful on a large scale in their own right, unless they make some very smart decisions. This would involve offering a better product than VA and JQ on a lower cost base, and persuading the customers of this. They will also need deeper pockets than a quick $150M from a Singaporean investor.

Bain may at some point be interested in making Rex an offer they can’t refuse, and Rex jet replaces Tiger, and Rex regional compliments VARA. If Bain’s exit strategy is to sell VA for more than they paid for it, this could be on the cards. Back to the old duopoly.

Have Rex actually permanently employed any ex-VA pilots, or have they only taken them on via short-term contracts while they train up cadets? Only asking because I saw their advertisement for short-term contract 737 trainers.

[Bull_Shark]

Some heads must be exploding along Baxter road this morning with the announcement of the government package to assist domestic aviation.

With at least three of the new Rex routes (Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney to the Gold Coast) being eligible for a government subsidy but only to Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin (as a route needs to of been flown for at least two years to qualify) Rex will be struggling to fill seats even more now.

Even funnier is that Adelaide to Kingscote which Rex have served for years is an eligible route but is also one they are exiting at the end of this month after spitting the dummy about competition. I wonder if they’ll reverse that decision now?

The screeching howls of unfairness will be echoing all weekend.

But why should Rex be given a similar opportunity to the rest?

They have arguably received more government assistance as a proportion than any other airline in Australia and even posted a 10 million dollar profit last year. They had no problem raising 150 million dollars to fund an expansion. On top of this there shouldn’t be any barrier to them increasing their intrastate flights as border restrictions haven’t affected travel within each state as much as between the states.

Are they still keeping the majority of their Saab crews on minimum flying hours?

Rex will need to be careful how they spin this because any cries of unfairness will quickly be shot down by especially their regional customers as it is they who are being ignored while the company chases the dream of shiny jets.

[Paragraph377]

Some heads must be exploding along Baxter road this morning with the announcement of the government package to assist domestic aviation.

With at least three of the new Rex routes (Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney to the Gold Coast) being eligible for a government subsidy but only to Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin (as a route needs to of been flown for at least two years to qualify) Rex will be struggling to fill seats even more now.

Even funnier is that Adelaide to Kingscote which Rex have served for years is an eligible route but is also one they are exiting at the end of this month after spitting the dummy about competition. I wonder if they’ll reverse that decision now?

The screeching howls of unfairness will be echoing all weekend.

But why should Rex be given a similar opportunity to the rest?

They have arguably received more government assistance as a proportion than any other airline in Australia and even posted a 10 million dollar profit last year. They had no problem raising 150 million dollars to fund an expansion. On top of this there shouldn’t be any barrier to them increasing their intrastate flights as border restrictions haven’t affected travel within each state as much as between the states.

Are they still keeping the majority of their Saab crews on minimum flying hours?

Rex will need to be careful how they spin this because any cries of unfairness will quickly be shot down by especially their regional customers as it is they who are being ignored while the company chases the dream of shiny jets.

REX relies heavily on Mr not-so-Sharp’s political connections, and his tears. Rather than formulating business strategies that are commensurate with REX size, aircraft type and scope of operation, Messrs Sharp and Lim seem to obviously sit daily in the boardroom and on Zoom tugging on their carrots while dreaming about becoming a behemoth like United Airlines. They need to stop sooking and stop trying to be breastfed from the Infrastructure Minister and National party’s nipples. Somebody, please anybody, when they wake up from their sticky mess can you please tell them that the universe doesn’t revolve around REX?

[zanthrus]

:D:ok: Sticky mess...great image right there! Gold!

[wheels_down]

Forget Scurrah. Sharpie on the ABC said he does not pay his executive team more than 200k each. It’s all about keeping costs down. Scuz will want that mill.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Well Scurrah reportedly landed a very good payout after being booted by Bain, contingent on him making a quiet and graceful exit, and apparently he's on a full year of gardening leave instead of six months, so by all accounts he's pretty set and in no rush to return, at least not to an airline. But I suspect that if he did return to Rex as MD or CEO then part of his plan would be to develop the airline to the point where it gets bought by Bain either in full or as an equity plat to become the new Virgin Regional, given that Virgin can't rely on Alliance with Qantas sandboxing ALliance's E190s and eager to increase its own 20% stage in Alliance to maybe full ownership. So maybe Scurrah would be okay to slum it on $200k if he was given an equity stake in Rex so that in the even of a Bain buyout he walks away with a lot more.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Rex looks to add more Boeing 737 jets, more destinations: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-looks-to-add-more-jets-more-destinations

Rex being quite up front now about wanting cities to show an "expression of interest" aka $$$ for being next on its Boeing 737 list. BNE still a front runner you'd think, can't see PER being part of this, and not HOB given the mid-year timing.

[wheels_down]

Adelaide and the Gold Coast has always been the most active when it came to incentivizing carriers to come.

Canberra, Cairns, Hobart will probably appear soon.

Id expect a deal to run to Darwin for the peak season.

[1A_Please]

Adelaide and the Gold Coast has always been the most active when it came to incentivizing carriers to come.

Canberra, Cairns, Hobart will probably appear soon.

Id expect a deal to run to Darwin for the peak season.
I'd be surprised that QF and/or VA didn't have deals with airports that means they get best available deal. This would mean any offer to waive fees for REX would need to be passed onto one or both of the main carriers. For example, Qld and BNE made a significant play to keep VA based in BNE; it is likely this included a best price match clause,

[Paragraph377]

Well Scurrah reportedly landed a very good payout after being booted by Bain, contingent on him making a quiet and graceful exit, and apparently he's on a full year of gardening leave instead of six months, so by all accounts he's pretty set and in no rush to return, at least not to an airline. But I suspect that if he did return to Rex as MD or CEO then part of his plan would be to develop the airline to the point where it gets bought by Bain either in full or as an equity plat to become the new Virgin Regional, given that Virgin can't rely on Alliance with Qantas sandboxing ALliance's E190s and eager to increase its own 20% stage in Alliance to maybe full ownership. So maybe Scurrah would be okay to slum it on $200k if he was given an equity stake in Rex so that in the even of a Bain buyout he walks away with a lot more.
I hope he enjoys his gardening and he removes all of the weeds, unlike his efforts at VA. He is a soft man. ‘Scuz’ has proven he is incapable of being a quality CEO of a volatile publicly listed company. He is better off back in the railways where the toot toot trains have a monopoly and losing money is practically impossible. His abilities lack strength and he is a light and fluffy CEO who lacks mongrel. Carla on the other hand has energy and a decent of cajones and won’t be intimidate by groups of ‘internal Specialists’ or the big talking/BS sprouting Unions.

[minigundiplomat]

Forget Scurrah. Sharpie on the ABC said he does not pay his executive team more than 200k each

Neville Howell and Paul Fischer were paid base salaries of $232K and $205K respectively. Mr Howell's total renumeration figure was $312K whilst most of the executive team were paid total packages well over $200K.

I'm not sure Mr Sharp knows the company issues annual reports on their website.

But then again maths hasn't been his strong suit; I seem to recall some errors in his expense claims.

[jrfsp]

Adelaide and the Gold Coast has always been the most active when it came to incentivizing carriers to come.

Canberra, Cairns, Hobart will probably appear soon.

Id expect a deal to run to Darwin for the peak season.

I would have thought MCY or CNS would be popular over the winter period.

Possibly PER if it was operated as a Red eye to maximize utilization without taking away from daytime use - in the same way tiger used to.

[Paragraph377]

Neville Howell and Paul Fischer were paid base salaries of $232K and $205K respectively. Mr Howell's total renumeration figure was $312K whilst most of the executive team were paid total packages well over $200K.

I'm not Mr Sharp knows the company issue annual reports on their website.

But then again maths hasn't been his strong suit; I seem to recall some errors in his expense claims.

Correct. Most packages for the 2020 financial year averaged between $250k - $290k. Strange that Mr Sharp doesn’t know such important information. But then again, the ‘expert’ did sign off on a 737 expansion based on assumptions rather than a business plan. Sharp himself has around 275,000 shares and earns around $125k per year pocket money for his part-time position. Not a bad little earner when he is on various other Boards and advisory panels, receives a generous parliamentary pension and has other investments. Oink oink he certainly has his snout in a few troughs.

And I love it how he left Politics ‘dishonourably’ over a rort, yet he was awarded an AM a few years later! As George Carlin said; “Its a big club, and you ain’t in it”.

[Ladloy]

Wait until you see the shares up for grabs for the directors.

[Deano969]

Anyone know if REX are getting good loads on their 737s?

[Bull_Shark]

Rex being quite up front now about wanting cities to show an "expression of interest" aka $$$ for being next on its Boeing 737 list. BNE still a front runner you'd think, can't see PER being part of this, and not HOB given the mid-year timing.

You’ve got to laugh!

This is a perfect example of Rex swimming in a bigger pond than it’s used to.

What Rex are used to is bullying and intimidating small regional councils on their airport and passenger fees while threatening to pull their monopoly services if they don’t get what they want.

Brisbane and other large airports couldn’t give a f$ck about offering Rex any better incentives to have the glorious privilege of their country hospitality.

Once again the losers in all of this will be the country towns, regional passengers and Saab crews..

[On eyre]

You’ve got to laugh!

This is a perfect example of Rex swimming in a bigger pond than it’s used to.

What Rex are used to is bullying and intimidating small regional councils on their airport and passenger fees while threatening to pull their monopoly services if they don’t get what they want.

Brisbane and other large airports couldn’t give a f$ck about offering Rex any better incentives to have the glorious privilege of their country hospitality.

Once again the losers in all of this will be the country towns, regional passengers and Saab crews..

What he said - spot on 👍

[Paragraph377]

What he said - spot on 👍

The ACCC has just ruled that REX has no cause for complaint and their argument against Qantas has been dismissed. Gold! Now standby and wait for king of the crybabies, John not-so-Sharp and Mr Lim to come out whinging, moaning, crying, sooking, and crying some more about the ‘unfair playing field’.

Oh well John, as your mates in Canberra have stated; ‘we are living in unprecedented times’. I guess that applies to REX also. 😂

[Agent_86]

REX commence MEL/OOL 29MAR21

[MickG0105]

REX commence MEL/OOL 29MAR21
1 April if their booking engine is anything to go by.

[430W]

See where another of Mr. Sharps ventures was in the channel 9 news last week. Conair.. great name but suppose any publicity is good publicity.

[wheels_down]

What’s the legal status on Rex using Virgin’s interior?

I mean the Economy X plastered on the headrest, purple divider, red/purple/grey Virgin headrest palette. The cabin is basically a brand, so Virgin could essentially register design rights to its product leaving Rex up the ****, as I doubt they have the ability to change the cabin overnight.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Rex got the Business headrests reupholstered with a Rex emblem.
Photos in this story
https://www.executivetraveller.com/review-regional-express-rex-boeing-737-business-class

[PoppaJo]

Interesting point. The cabin down the back is most certainly unique Virgin. I’m not sure if airline cabins can be product trademarked however it is a ‘product’ I guess so if they wanted to play games they probably could.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/620x349/014b77aa_a7fe_4fee_8e88_5145aba22fa8_6c733828bda03d98ed87681 4ea2140258a55a8bb.jpeg

[hoss58]

I can't see VA spending any money on litigation for the sake of a handful of air frames for an airline that may or may not go the distance (with jets).

And at the end of the day that's the way they were handed back to the owners/lessors through administration. I'd be surprised If they had a leg to stand on.

Cheers Hoss58

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

An "R" in front with a texta will fix that. REconomyX....a new price point!

[1A_Please]

I can't see VA spending any money on litigation for the sake of a handful of air frames for an airline that may or may not go the distance (with jets).

And at the end of the day that's the way they were handed back to the owners/lessors through administration. I'd be surprised If they had a leg to stand on.

Cheers Hoss58
The lessors are probably not too keen for REX to modify the cabins too much. If ZL hits the wall, which is as likely as not, they may try remarketing these birds back to VA and they'd probably throw in the exterior paint job to sweeten the deal.

[Global Aviator]

An "R" in front with a texta will fix that. REconomyX....a new price point!

You watch someone wizzkid in marketing claim your idea!

[hoss58]

The lessors are probably not too keen for REX to modify the cabins too much. If ZL hits the wall, which is as likely as not, they may try remarketing these birds back to VA and they'd probably throw in the exterior paint job to sweeten the deal.
I suspect you are correct

[MELKBQF]

Rex Airlines (https://www.9news.com.au/aviation) has made a surprise decision to keep open five routes (https://www.9news.com.au/flights) into key regional Australian hubs which had been earmarked for closure in just one week.
The regional carrier announced today it had been able to save five routes - at least for now - following an "unexpected decision" by the Federal Government to continue the Regional Aviation Network Support program until end September 2021.
Four of the routes were flights in and out of Sydney from Bathurst, Cooma, Lismore and Grafton. Adelaide - Kangaroo Island was the fifth route to stave off closure.https://imageresizer.static9.net.au/fIeX6qMZgFV7K0Idz35oM1FNsv4=/500x0/https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2F1b72bec7-d6c2-4b54-aa65-bf9224674be1Rex Airlines has begun flying on Australia's busiest route - Melbourne to Sydney - for the first time. (Supplied)READ MORE: Rex blasts Qantas' regional routes as 'aggressive predatory moves' (https://www.9news.com.au/national/rex-airline-route-changes-accuses-qantas-of-predatory-moves-in-regional-market/6abf4d6f-d02e-47f8-baf6-e921a6474d6e)
From April, Rex will also start new services including between Sydney and NSW destinations Coffs Harbour and Port Macquarie.
Rex is Australia's largest independent regional and domestic airline, operating flights to 61 destinations throughout all states in Australia.
It is unclear whether the five routes thrown a lifeline today will remain open beyond September this year.

[Bull_Shark]

Rex airlines made the surprise decision...

..it had been able to save five routes...

..at least for now...

Those regional councils will be so thankful now!

You can’t make this stuff up 😅

[C441]

Following on from the link I posted to an interview with the Alliance CEO on that thread, the same interviewer spoke to John Sharp on ABC radio yesterday.

You can listen to it here commencing at 1:21:50. (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/brisbane/programs/drive/drive/13251130)

[stevieboy330]

Does anyone here have any info, fact or rumour about what REX SAAB Pilots are doing now? are they back to work? are they full time? is there any talk of recruitment on the horizon for the SAAB?

[Ladloy]

Does anyone here have any info, fact or rumour about what REX SAAB Pilots are doing now? are they back to work? are they full time? is there any talk of recruitment on the horizon for the SAAB?
Full time from next week. The schedule picks up from after Easter but the company is threatening 5% retrenchment company wide.

[stevieboy330]

Full time from next week. The schedule picks up from after Easter but the company is threatening 5% retrenchment company wide.
I'm very sorry to hear that, seems like there is no good news anywhere......best of luck to all at REX, a good honest employer, in my experience & an airline with a well deserved reputation for doing the best it can for staff. I do appreciate the info.

[brokenagain]

well deserved reputation for doing the best it can for staff

Hahahahahaha.

Sorry.

Hahahahahahaha.

[morno]

a good honest employer, in my experience & an airline with a well deserved reputation for doing the best it can for staff. I do appreciate the info.

Are you for real? :rolleyes:

[Ladloy]

I'm very sorry to hear that, seems like there is no good news anywhere......best of luck to all at REX, a good honest employer, in my experience & an airline with a well deserved reputation for doing the best it can for staff. I do appreciate the info.
I respectfully disagree.

[wheels_down]

I'm very sorry to hear that, seems like there is no good news anywhere......best of luck to all at REX, a good honest employer, in my experience & an airline with a well deserved reputation for doing the best it can for staff. I do appreciate the info.
:D :yuk:

[Green.Dot]

Well played Stevie, got a few bites :)

[MelbourneFlyer]

Seven daily returns on the Saab, flights start April 19

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-canberra-sydney-flights

[SHVC]

Oh god! Rex are really keen to go broke.

[Epicurus]

I'm very sorry to hear that, seems like there is no good news anywhere......best of luck to all at REX, a good honest employer, in my experience & an airline with a well deserved reputation for doing the best it can for staff. I do appreciate the info.

Somebody please wake me up from coma. Am I to believe that Sharp and Lim are ‘people persons’? They care about staff? Holy crap, I’ve died and gone to an alternate universe.

[wheels_down]

Watch 7 become 6 then 5 and so on..

$99 today, $49 next week, and probably $20 soon thereafter.

(I’m not joking)

[pinkpanther1]

This is predatory behaviour from Rex. Launching CFS PQQ and CBR intentionally to spite Qantas. These routes can barely support one carrier let alone two! Grumble Grumble Grumble give me handouts

[Wingspar]

Ego getting in the way of rational thought.

Keep betting red until it comes up.

[Lookleft]

If it was going to make them money then they would have done it years ago. Kendell operated SYD-CBR but that when they were part of Ansett and it was generating on carriage out of Sydney for other destinations. Public Servants do not like turboprops and the footy crowd will drive.

[TBM-Legend]

Rex struggles to fill new Sydney-Melbourne flights (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/rex-struggles-to-fill-new-sydney-melbourne-flights-20210324-p57dk2)
says AFR...

[dr dre]

Rex struggles to fill new Sydney-Melbourne flights (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/rex-struggles-to-fill-new-sydney-melbourne-flights-20210324-p57dk2)
says AFR...

I want whatever John Sharp is smoking, must be a hell of a hallucinogenic.......

Regional Express’ ambition to challenge Virgin and Qantas in the domestic market fizzled on Tuesday when just 21 passengers travelled on its midday flight from Sydney to Melbourne and a 2:30 pm flight on the same route had only 14, according to an industry source

The low load factors are consistent with rumours heard by Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation chairman emeritus Peter Harbison, who said the up-until-now rural carrier must “pull a rabbit out of the hat” to make its ambitious entrance to the lucrative capital city market succeed for a prolonged period.

The low passenger numbers – which Rex did not dispute – raise critical questions about the continued viability of the carrier’s push into the “golden triangle” air travel corridor up and down the east coast earlier this month.

Deputy chairman John Sharp claimed load factors on Sydney-Melbourne flights were better than expected and sustainable for the airline. He accused rivals of embedding staff on these trips to identify the number of passengers.

“We have noted many Qantas employees that are regular passengers on our flights. They are there to present the worst case picture and they wouldn’t be telling anyone about our flights that are full,” he said.

Qantas declined to comment.

[wheels_down]

Virgin’s 6pm carried more pax than Rex carried for the entire day.

Jump onto Rex. Seat Maps this Friday are bare empty. Virgin is at capacity and oversold this Friday.
Jetstar seat maps are full (A321)

Do people even know they exist?

[chimbu warrior]

He accused rivals of embedding staff on these trips to identify the number of passengers.

“We have noted many Qantas employees that are regular passengers on our flights. They are there to present the worst case picture and they wouldn’t be telling anyone about our flights that are full,” he said.

Sounds like Rex should be grateful for those Qantas employees buying seats. To me it would seem easier and cheaper to just stand at the gate and count passengers getting on and off the aircraft.

[Derfred]

From April, Rex will also start new services including between Sydney and NSW destinations Coffs Harbour and Port Macquarie.


Aren’t those QantasLink routes?

I notice Rex are undercutting QantasLink too.

Shouldn’t QantasLink be taking them to the ACCC for predatory behaviour?

[TBM-Legend]

Looks like a race to the bottom. You can't sell $10 tickets for $9 and expect to stay in business as VA Mk 1 found out...

[MickG0105]

Deputy chairman John Sharp ... accused rivals of embedding staff on these trips to identify the number of passengers.

“We have noted many Qantas employees that are regular passengers on our flights. They are there to present the worst case picture and they wouldn’t be telling anyone about our flights that are full,” he said.

JC, but this bloke is dumb as a bag of hammers. Neither Qantas nor Virgin would be putting money into Rex's coffers and buying a seat on a flight to determine the pax load. You just send one of your staff down to the Rex gate ahead of boarding time and count pax once they have dutifully lined up to board. Couldn't be simpler.

Sounds like Rex should be grateful for those Qantas employees buying seats. To me it would seem easier and cheaper to just stand at the gate and count passengers getting on and off the aircraft.​​​​​​​Sorry, missed this when I originally posted. Yes, spot on.

[MickG0105]

Virgin’s 6pm carried more pax than Rex carried for the entire day.

Jump onto Rex. Seat Maps this Friday are bare empty. Virgin is at capacity and oversold this Friday.
Jetstar seat maps are full (A321)

Do people even know they exist?
Yep, take a look at the seat allocation map for ZL153 Sydney to Melbourne this Friday. The 06:30pm - 08:05pm flight has three, count 'em, three seats showing as unavailable - one J class and two down the back.

[Epicurus]

JC, but this bloke is dumb as a bag of hammers. Neither Qantas nor Virgin would be putting money into Rex's coffers and buying a seat on a flight to determine the pax load. You just send one of your staff down to the Rex gate ahead of boarding time and count pax once they have dutifully lined up to board. Couldn't be simpler.

Sorry, missed this when I originally posted. Yes, spot on.
All airlines do it at some stage - put an employee near the boarding gate with a hand counter and get some passenger data. But putting QF employees onto a REX flight would be to check out service level standards, food and entertainment quality, things like that. Always good to know what your competitor is up to. It’s not a new tactic.

[MickG0105]

But putting QF employees onto a REX flight would be to check out service level standards, food and entertainment quality, things like that.
Yes, but that would be a once off, or QF/VA could just watch any of the numerous YouTubers' postings on their experiences on Rex flights. Sharpie's contention that rivals are 'embedding' staff on multiple flights is just risible nonsense.

[Qantas 787]

Sharp should be thankful QF staff are actually bumping up his low seat factors. Not even a month in, how much longer are Rex going to continue to burn money with this charade?

[SHVC]

Well, they’re expanding rapidly from other ports they must know something. Surely Kim wouldn’t want to pi$$ away everything.

[minigundiplomat]

Well, they’re expanding rapidly from other ports they must know something. Surely Kim wouldn’t want to pi$$ away everything.

That's a creeping assumption worthy of the Victorian cabinet.

[Lookleft]

There is an old aviation saying that states " The lawn mower will rev up just before it runs out of fuel" (ok maybe not an old aviation saying but still applicable)

[1A_Please]

Just had to book a colleague home from MEL to SYD tonight. Both QF and VA were full for flights between 4 and 5:30. At the same time, ZL still has seats available at just $79 on its one flight. Still didn't give REX to business though because if their 5pm flight was delayed, they only had one other flight all night and that was 8pm!

It is fair to say, the REX mainline jet operation is in more trouble than the early settlers. They may be able to develop a niche on leisure routes which would mean they would effectively just be replacing Tiger. Not a bad option and it would mean they could differentiate their product a bit and look to move into the ULCC space. Their current strategy (if you could call it that) is doomed.

[Agent_86]

And their 5th Jet has just arrived too...

[wheels_down]

ULCC or not they can’t stimulate demand from low fares as it is, it wouldn’t make any difference.

Jetstar is a machine to go up against in that space.

[1A_Please]

You're right on price but pitching as a leisure oriented LCC would enable them to target their marketing in a way that makes sense. At the moment, they don't belong anywhere. They say they are offering a product that rivals QF but charge rock-bottom prices. This just makes people think they are going broke....

[MickG0105]

Just had to book a colleague home from MEL to SYD tonight. Both QF and VA were full for flights between 4 and 5:30. At the same time, ZL still has seats available at just $79 on its one flight. Still didn't give REX to business though because if their 5pm flight was delayed, they only had one other flight all night and that was 8pm!

It is fair to say, the REX mainline jet operation is in more trouble than the early settlers. They may be able to develop a niche on leisure routes which would mean they would effectively just be replacing Tiger. Not a bad option and it would mean they could differentiate their product a bit and look to move into the ULCC space. Their current strategy (if you could call it that) is doomed.
I did a bit of poking around on the various booking engines earlier and Rex's load factors are diabolically low.

For instance, Rex's fullest Sydney - Melbourne flight today was their 12.30pm, flight ZL105. That flew with a sub-40 percent load factor with just 63-odd seats filled out of 168 in the economy cabin.

The equivalent Qantas and Virgin flights, QF447 (12:30pm departure) and VA838 (12pm departure) flew with 96 percent and 82 percent economy loads respectively. When you look at the traditionally very high load factor flights like the 6.30pm departure Sydney - Melbourne, Qantas's QF483 is essentially full; when I looked this morning there was one unsold economy seat out of 162 and one out of 12 business class seats unsold.

Jetstar's 6.30pm, JQ523, is running at 100 percent.

Virgin's 6.30pm flight, VA878, was running at 83 percent (surprisingly with 7 out of 8 business class seats sold - some people like 2 minute noodles I guess).

The equivalent Rex flight, ZL153, had a grand total of 16 seats filled (and not one of the 8 business class seats sold) for a load factor of 9 percent.

Regardless of where Rex's cost base is you can not make money with those sorts of loads. And the tenting of their loads around midday suggests that they have not made any inroads to the corporate market.

I'd like to hear Sharpie's spin on this.

[transition_alt]

Whilst I agree that Rex's load factors are low, it needs to be mentioned that the promo fares require passengers to pay $6 for seat selection. For some, this is a cost they don't want to pay.

Rex's booking system does not assign a seat to those who don't pay until check-in. All seats are available for passengers who pay for a more flexible fare, legroom seats or $6. Therefore, snooping at seat maps isn't portraying a completely accurate economy figure.

Touching on the topic of load factors. I believe it's completely far fetched to think Rex will fill their 737's consistently from day 1. It takes time to build a customer base, especially when most who aren't from country ports don't know who Rex are (yet). They are beginning to advertise (perhaps finally forking out for a marketing department now PAG have board members), which will see pax loads gradually increase.
It cannot be forgotten that COVID is still around with lots of uncertainty up in the air. I'm interested to see what happens with these 800,000 1/2 price flights now that Queensland have another community COVID case.

Not helping Rex's cause is the fact some booking sites (exclusive of Webjet) don't actually advertise Rex's lowest fare. Comparing flights in a weeks time, VA was the suggested airline with Rex coming in 3rd behind Jetstar due price. When looking at the respective websites for the same date and flights, Rex were in fact the cheapest by a few dollars, however the comparison site did not advertise Rex's promo flights. This is true for multiple websites.

Most mum and dads aren't aviation fanatics and therefore may not book from the airlines website and book simply from the cheapest fare available upon instant comparisons. If these sites aren't actually showing Rex's cheapest fares, they are potentially losing a lot of customers for no reason.

[Servo]

I did a bit of poking around on the various booking engines earlier and Rex's load factors are diabolically low.

For instance, Rex's fullest Sydney - Melbourne flight today was their 12.30pm, flight ZL105. That flew with a sub-40 percent load factor with just 63-odd seats filled out of 168 in the economy cabin.

The equivalent Qantas and Virgin flights, QF447 (12:30pm departure) and VA838 (12pm departure) flew with 96 percent and 82 percent economy loads respectively. When you look at the traditionally very high load factor flights like the 6.30pm departure Sydney - Melbourne, Qantas's QF483 is essentially full; when I looked this morning there was one unsold economy seat out of 162 and one out of 12 business class seats unsold.

Jetstar's 6.30pm, JQ523, is running at 100 percent.

Virgin's 6.30pm flight, VA878, was running at 83 percent (surprisingly with 7 out of 8 business class seats sold - some people like 2 minute noodles I guess).

The equivalent Rex flight, ZL153, had a grand total of 16 seats filled (and not one of the 8 business class seats sold) for a load factor of 9 percent.

Regardless of where Rex's cost base is you can not make money with those sorts of loads. And the tenting of their loads around midday suggests that they have not made any inroads to the corporate market.

I'd like to hear Sharpie's spin on this.

Virgin launched their new inflight catering yesterday. Business class passengers were generally receptive in a positive way with the offering. (Not hard considering the 2 minute "noodle gate" debacle). No complaints from the economy guests on the 3 sectors I operated yesterday. Time will tell. Poor cabin crew had zero training or knowledge of the product before yesterday, contrary to what miss Jayne stated.

Supposedly the reason there was no food the last 6 months was because there were in depth catering contract negotiations. Told today it was a last minute contract drawn up for 12 months with the previous contractor Gate Gourmet..........

[MickG0105]

Whilst I agree that Rex's load factors are low, it needs to be mentioned that the promo fares require passengers to pay $6 for seat selection. For some, this is a cost they don't want to pay.

Rex's booking system does not assign a seat to those who don't pay until check-in. All seats are available for passengers who pay for a more flexible fare, legroom seats or $6. Therefore, snooping at seat maps isn't portraying a completely accurate economy figure.

Agreed, we're not talking completely accurate here but the degree of accuracy shouldn't be difficult to estimate. How many of the $79 promotional seats do you reckon are offered on each flight? 10? 15?

[transition_alt]

Agreed, we're not talking completely accurate here but the degree of accuracy shouldn't be difficult to estimate. How many of the $79 promotional seats do you reckon are offered on each flight? 10? 15?

I will put bets on 30-40% of seats being sold as promo during their introductory period. This would also concur with some pax loads whilst economy fares are still $79.

There have been flights with 60 odd pax while tickets are still being sold at the promo price

[MickG0105]

I will put bets on 30-40% of seats being sold as promo during their introductory period.
That would equate to 60-odd $79 seats a flight - your break even point would be 90+ percent.

This would also concur with some pax loads whilst economy fares are still $79. There have been flights with 60 odd pax while tickets are still being sold at the promo price
I've not seen any evidence of flights with 60 odd pax with the $79 promo fares still being offered. From what I've seen 15 or so bookings sees off the $79 fares and the $99 fares disappear at around 50.

Time will tell. We'll see what comes first - Rex making it to the end of the current financial year or an ASX announcement of an extraordinary nature.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Anyone got some hard cash that needs a clean???

SN

[DJ737]

Just off ZL145, the 1730 SYD-MEL, had 28 pax on the flight, booked a $79 fare on Thursday, when the cart came along I ordered a beer ($7) and gave the FA a 10, said she would be back with the change, interestingly REX only accept cash onboard, no plastic. The FA came back 10 mins later said they didn't have any change as I was the only person to have bought something and gave me my $10 back, so that's another $7 the flight lost, but I got a cheap ticket and a free beer. :ok:

[wheels_down]

Some single digits numbers also across this past week. However was a few 80/90s.

Surely would be at least negative $1m a week going off some rough numbers.

[transition_alt]

Rex have acknowledged there will be losses initially. Such is life for ANY new business. No one can expect 100% load factors in their first weeks of operation.

Looking at the bigger picture, early signs are positive for an overall success of the operation.

The $150 million investment is intended to absorb these losses. Anyone who thinks that is where PAG will end their relationship with Rex is kidding themselves.

There are lots of naysayers on here which is quite sad given a lot of people at Rex are likely your ex-colleagues or someone you know. Regardless of Rex’s domestic success, they won’t be taking your job away. At the end of the day, this is a rumour network and pilots think they are experts at running businesses

[dr dre]

Looking at the bigger picture, early signs are positive for an overall success of the operation.

The $150 million investment is intended to absorb these losses. Anyone who thinks that is where PAG will end their relationship with Rex is kidding themselves.



Wasn't the pitch to investors based on Virgin ceasing operations?

[transition_alt]

Wasn't the pitch to investors based on Virgin ceasing operations?

Of course it was. However, the investment wasn’t signed on the dotted line until late last year and not even funded until earlier this month.

Plans change and PAG would know very well Virgin are here to stay. Yet the investment continued.
They own more than $40 billion in assets, a company like that (Bain as well) doesn’t just throw away money for the sake of it. They can see opportunities and there are in fact opportunities. It’s just a matter of the painfully slow process to find what works and what doesn’t.

A perfect example is the Gold Coast. Business travel not recovering? Okay, what’s making money currently? Tourism is starting to increase again so let’s look at leisure destinations. As the frequent flyer program isn’t set up as yet it may be a better idea as leisure travel has less of a need for these benefits.

Qantas fly leisure routes too. It doesn’t change their identity though

[MickG0105]

It would probably be handy to get a few things straight here. Rex is not Compass. Rex's foray into jet operations is not a new business/start-up, it's an expansion. As such the financials are a little bit different. The expansion will have some fixed costs associated with it that do not generate revenue (AOC set up, route set-up, flight/cabin crew training, etc) - that's what a chunk of the PAG seed money is there for.

And note, the $150 million is structured in three $50 million tranches. PAG are not mugs, there will be internal hurdles and triggers associated with the draw downs. Moreover, the whole PAG deal is completely underwritten by an equity stake in the business - if the expansion goes pear-shaped, PAG will end up owning half of Rex (which would return to its mildly profitable regional roots). At this point Rex have drawn down their first $50 million tranche and would almost certainly be getting ready to dip into the second.

Any old how, because you've got that big chunk of set-up costs that need to be paid back you don't want to be adding to those costs, so once you pull the trigger your initial operations should at the very least be coming close to breaking even. That's likely not the case at the moment. No one would have planned for 80 percent load factors right out of the gate but you can bet your bottom dollar that the business plan would have had something like 50 percent load factors for month one. And that was likely on a nine return flights a day basis. They almost certainly have not hit that target. And April's planning target will be a notch up again on March.

More broadly, if you look at a basic measure like asset utilisation, that's not flash. First flight is at 0700, last lands at 2130, six flights in each direction on a super simple point - point shuttle. Compared to the majors, they are undercooking utilisation by at least 15 percent and that's leaving aside the fact that one of their then four jets was sitting at Wagga for most of the first month.

Their original business plan was for nine return flights a day, Sydney - Melbourne. Despite all of Sharpie's carry on they most assuredly had sufficient aircraft to manage that but they didn't - one factor would have driven that change of schedule. They've then been a bit over the shop with where to next - Brisbane, Adelaide, Gold Coast, etc Now, no plan survives contact with the enemy but you generally like something that has had a few months work put into it to hold together longer than a few weeks.

And they had a rejected take-off out of Sydney in week 1 and some sort of tech issue with RQC which very luckily for Rex didn't get picked up by the media. So, all in all, a less than stellar start.

Next month, things don't get easier for Rex, ostensibly they get harder, and harder by at least an order of magnitude. OOL and ADL come on line which means that (a) they won't have the luxury of two spare jets to cover for RQC's next tantrum and (b) they'll have to manage a more tightly integrated schedule.

As to naysaying, calling stuff as it is is not naysaying. To be successful, Rex's expansion needed a lot of intermeshing moving parts to come together pretty much perfectly - thus far, I don't think that we are seeing that.

In the long run, as the Zen Master said, "We'll see."

[wheels_down]

I got nervous when basics like (a) change your booking online, has been out of service since mid December (It’s nearly April for Christ sake), and (b) online check-in, did not work from the get go so they sidelined that for the moment. These are just everyday basics that no airline should go without for days left alone nearly 4 months.

I still think they would be better going after the Tiger share and bringing in things like carry on only (cheaper fares), and ‘big seat up front’ sort of product like Sprit in the states.

Jetstar (now Virgin) are now sending in more machines from Japan and Singapore, also which further dilutes whatever revenue Rex wanted.

I still don’t know what share of the revenue market they are actually taking. Jetstar are pretty clear they want that Tiger share, and are sending in the equipment to cover that. Virgin looking at a lite model fare bucket like Delta, in both cabins, to again, take that revenue, which further squeezes Rex.

They also had 6 months to setup some form of basic FF program, now faced with these double credit promos from the other two and points being thrown around everywhere.

To get any form of scale and return on such big investment they need 20-30 aircraft. They acknowledge that having said it many times, but that’s billions of expected revenue with no clear pathway to it.

[Ladloy]

Saab schedule is ramping up as of this week due to jobkeeper ending. It could help with 737 loads with connecting pax..
​​​

[DanV2]

Struth, a common sense approach. Looking into the crystal ball Singapore would be first mob on the list that would hold interest in merging Rex/virgin. They would buy and pay out Bain and PAG.
The LH aircraft won't be 330s/777 it would be a one fits all i.e. A350,B787-9, or last pick 777 with folding wings and I hope all the redundant pilots get first pick.
That's assuming covid is over and Singapore are all cashed up again.
If Rex are employing the Tiger pilots then they may go full circle and be flying back with Virgin's active Tiger AOC come 2 or 3 years.

When will people understand that SIA is very good at what it does within the Republic of Singapore but outside of its borders it has a large number of failed airline investments. Why would SIA or rather Temasek consider putting any more money into an Australian airline given the failure of Ansett, Tiger and Virgin? I can't see any state owned carrier investing until their own balance sheet has recovered from the ravages of COVID. As for Qantas going the way of Ansett because of fleet types, its not going to happen. Mainline only has one narrow body type and one wide body type on its domestic network. The other aircraft are flown by contractors. As for LH it is only the 787 and A330 that it is currently operating. Types grounded or not yet purchased can't be included in the "too many types" box. Qantas is run by people who at least understand the industry. Ansett was run by a newspaper owner and a road transport owner who had very little knowledge or interest in the airline industry.

Agreed. Qantas has already seen the back of Singapore Airlines from the Australian domestic market three times already. To think QF would be scared of SQ would be laughable at best.

Dixon oversaw the first demise (NZ and AN) and Joyce got to see 'SQ' run off from the Australian domestic scene with their tail inbetween their legs TWICE after the Tiger Airways and Virgin financial failures. The combined Virgin failure/Covid effects meant SQ also had to be bailed out by their government parent (Temasek) as well.

A lot of speculation in regards to SQ and/or Temasek regarding any interest in the Australian domestic market (apart from SQ's ill-fated Virgin 20% stake) in the past few years prior to COVID had always ended up as fake news.

I don't any airline (state owned or not) will be investing any further in other airlines apart from the existing ones they may keep until their financial balances recover to a point where some aren't as reliant on government handouts/bailouts.

[On eyre]

So how’s Rexjet going in the new month and the busy Easter time - should be making a motza 😳

[On eyre]

They must be doing exceptionally well or exceptionally poorly or is it the mouthpiece JS is on leave.

[wheels_down]

Virgin appears to be playing the game of matching every Rex fare price regardless if the flight is this afternoon or next month.

[Paragraph377]

Virgin appears to be playing the game of matching every Rex fare price regardless if the flight is this afternoon or next month.
Oh dear, you know what that means, Not-so-Sharp will be running to the ACCC crying his eyes out and sooking about so-called unfair predatory actions that are not in the best interests of the fare paying public..... etc etc tug tug tug.

[pinkpanther1]

Just watched the pax jump off an ADL MEL flight. Can't have been more than 40 onboard. Would be very interested to know how the first fortnight has been for them.

[TheRealGeoffThomas]

Virgin appears to be playing the game of matching every Rex fare price regardless if the flight is this afternoon or next month.

And with the addition of 5 737's to VA Mainline over the next 3 months, they will continue to do so. One would have to think Bain has deeper pockets than Sharp & Co. do?

[KRUSTY 34]

Just watched the pax jump off an ADL MEL flight. Can't have been more than 40 onboard. Would be very interested to know how the first fortnight has been for them.

Give it time.

Those numbers will change.

[1A_Please]

Give it time.

Those numbers will change.
They may get worse. Both QF and VA are adding capacity. It's getting harder not easier.

[PoppaJo]

The demand is currently alive and well. I’ve been full for quite a while now. Oversold on many. We are not selling our arses off either for next to nothing.

The issue here is they can’t stimulate demand from what is ultra low fares.

The only other startup I’ve heard about with similar load issues was Ozjet.

[TBM-Legend]

Give it time.

Those numbers will change.


...up or down?

[MickG0105]

The demand is currently alive and well. I’ve been full for quite a while now. Oversold on many. We are not selling our arses off either for next to nothing.

The issue here is they can’t stimulate demand from what is ultra low fares.

The only other startup I’ve heard about with similar load issues was Ozjet.
Ah yes, Ozjet. Let's just say that they had an "interesting" business model; a few 732s in a 60 seat (15 rows of 2 - 2) all business class configuration. Expecting to pick J class pax up off QF and VA was very much pie in the sky. They lasted about 14 weeks from memory.

[TheRealGeoffThomas]

Ah yes, Ozjet. Let's just say that they had an "interesting" business model

The plan was the flights would operate similar to a `Bus service` for J Class day commuters between MEL/SYD and vice versa at Y Class pricing. Essentially a schedule with no hard and fast 'flight closed' times for J Pax to hop on at the last minute, with carry-on only, if they were running late.

It was never going to last though.

[MickG0105]

The plan was the flights would operate similar to a `Bus service` for J Class day commuters between MEL/SYD and vice versa at Y Class pricing. Essentially a schedule with no hard and fast 'flight closed' times for J Pax to hop on at the last minute, with carry-on only, if they were running late.

It was never going to last though.
Yes, thanks Geoff, I was aware of their approach - notional 15 minute check in and up to 20 kg of carry on.

Blind Freddy could see that while that product might suit many business passengers, in order to poach said pax from QF and VA a lot of pre-launch spade work was going to be required. They need to get the businesses that were paying for the flights to sign up - a very significant matter that they didn't address.

The other big issue for biz pax was flight frequency - a little difficult to achieve with only a handful of jets.

And of course launching a product pitched at business two weeks before Christmas holidays was always going to be problematic - that hiatus was always going to punch a smoking hole in cash flows.

Separately, before the well let's just call it "correspondence" begins, may I salute your "courage" in wading into the prruner pool.

[1A_Please]

The plan was the flights would operate similar to a `Bus service` for J Class day commuters between MEL/SYD and vice versa at Y Class pricing. Essentially a schedule with no hard and fast 'flight closed' times for J Pax to hop on at the last minute, with carry-on only, if they were running late.

It was never going to last though.
It was not set up for success ut at least they tried something different. REX hasn't even done that; they have nothing compellingly different about their product so end up with price as their only driver and that is not a way to long-term success unless you have gone down a ULCC model. They are sort of morphing into the new Tiger as the flip onto leisure routes and that is reasonable but they need to strip out costs further if they are going to continue this and give up on pointless triangle services where they have neither the product or frequency to be compelling and move onto other leisure routes such as CNS, MCY, PPP etc.

[wheels_down]

Yesterday busiest day yet. LF 90%+

3000 passengers VA and QF didn’t get anyway. Which is why they want them out.

[MickG0105]

Yesterday busiest day yet. LF 90%+

3000 passengers VA and QF didn’t get anyway. Which is why they want them out.
What's the source of that "data" please?

[C441]

Yesterday busiest day yet. LF 90%+
3000 passengers VA and QF didn’t get anyway. Which is why they want them out.

Across how many flights? Those figures would suggest that only 18 or 19 flights were operated.

[MickG0105]

Across how many flights? Those figures would suggest that only 18 or 19 flights were operated.
A Q&D tally of Rex services yesterday shows 24 flights, 12 of those were SYD-MEL and return. So that's total capacity of 4,224 seats (4,032 economy). 90+ percent load factor would be over 3,800 pax outright, 3,630 if you're just looking at Y.

I can understand the handful of OOL-SYD/MEL flights running at high load factors given that was the middle weekend of two weeks of school holidays but SYD-MEL, which constituted half of the capacity?

[wheels_down]

SYD-OOL this morning. 150
MEL-OOL this morning. 140

Adelaide 140s yesterday

All flights after 6pm last night 160 and above.
​​​​​​​

[PoppaJo]

Looks like they will do better in places like OOL. The last couple of times at Cooly we parked alongside we played count the pax and was at least 150 in and out.

That was the first market Tiger went into when they kicked off.

Will be interesting should they try and muscle into CNS. Peak season is nearly here. Tiger had 2000 seats daily in that market not too long ago.

[MickG0105]

All flights after 6pm last night 160 and above.

​​​​​​​All four of them?

[Chris2303]

Load factor is irrelevant.

You can have 160 pax and still not be able to pay the bills.

[wheels_down]

To ensure a more balanced approach. Perhaps replace the 6am triangle runs with a Gold Coast run.

Today
ML-SY 60
SY-ML 60
ML-SY 120
SY-ML 120
OOL-SY 140

You can have 160 pax and still not be able to pay the bills.
I would say at the moment the focus for ZL is probably just getting bums on seats which has been the issue of recent weeks. Better than running all flights at 20 heads I guess.

[1A_Please]

SYD-OOL this morning. 150
MEL-OOL this morning. 140

Adelaide 140s yesterday

All flights after 6pm last night 160 and above.

You'd expect all day time flights to OOL to be nearly full during school holidays. It will be more interesting to see what the situation is in a couple of weeks. There is no doubt the MEL-SYD flights are a disaster with no obvious way that this can be overcome. BNE-SYD and BNE-MEL just can't happen at this stage. They may have a future of sorts as a leisure airline though this will depend on loads outside of school holidays and require the opening up more ports such as CNS, PPP, DRW and BME.

[wheels_down]

Triangle they need to target peak leisure times. Pull back during the week and go harder on Friday and Sunday.

They really need to get into Cairns and Darwin this peak season. When do the next machines arrive? Jetstar are 6 Daily ML/SY during peak season to Cairns largely A321. Get in on it.

Early signs here that they need to be going after the Tiger share. A Triangle route can complement that however keep it smaller. Leave the suits to the other two.

[1A_Please]

I agree that they are morphing into Tiger even down to the elderly 737s. The problem is Jetstar, Qantas and Virgin are all aggressively competing now on leisure routes so a lot of the Tiger share may have already gone unless REX is prepared to take themselves down-market and become a true ULCC positioned below Jetstar.

This would mean they will be more like Spirit in the US, or Ryanair in Europe with a very no-frills operation. The virtually pointless existing J class offering would be removed and the density increased to a 28" pitch. Gates leased from airports would also change with no airbridges required. They would need to gird their loins to withstand the inevitable ACA segment complaining that nothing is included and delays are not recompensed with accommodation, meal vouchers etc even though this was clearly stated when the ultra-cheap ticket was sold.

[TheRealGeoffThomas]

Separately, before the well let's just call it "correspondence" begins, may I salute your "courage" in wading into the prruner pool.

Thanks for the kind words Mick.

Best, GT

[EPIRB]

I wonder how they will fair when overseas travel opens up and people choose to holiday overseas?

[PoppaJo]

I wonder how they will fair when overseas travel opens up and people choose to holiday overseas?
Replaced by the onslaught of Chinese tourists.

[wheels_down]

Only 8 on the 6am ML-SY this morning.

6am Adelaide to Melb 160.

[EPIRB]

Replaced by the onslaught of Chinese tourists.
Unlikely without interline agreements.

[1A_Please]

Unlikely without interline agreements.
Their current route network is unlikely to be of much interest to Chinese tourist operators.. Key ports for Chinese tourists are MEL, SYD, AYQ, CNS.

[Marauder]

Unlikely without interline agreements.

and unlikely without commissions of upwards of 30% to the wholesalers

[Agent_86]

With the QF/JQ announcement this morning about JQ 787-8's being re-deployed on the 'Shark Patrol' East Coast Routes (SYD/CNS, MEL/CNS etc), will this be the final knockout blow for REX and their Jet expansion plans other than the 'Golden Triangle'?

[PoppaJo]

Jetstar are moving to 120% pre Covid capacity. That’s the Tiger share. Rex just gets the scraps I guess.

Questionable scraps also, 3% load on this mornings first flight.

[On eyre]

Jetstar are moving to 120% pre Covid capacity. That’s the Tiger share. Rex just gets the scraps I guess.

Questionable scraps also, 3% load on this mornings first flight.

Someone would be loosening the plug or pin right now I reckon in preparation for pulling.

[1A_Please]

Someone would be loosening the plug or pin right now I reckon in preparation for pulling.
I don't know about pulling the plug but I wouldn't be surprised to see them announce a "pivot" towards being a leisure based jet operation only very shortly. This would enable them to graciously exit their disastrous foray into MEL-SYD and expand into leisure routes such as CNS, MCY and HTI. At the same time, they could get rid of the pointless J class cabin, move to BoB menu and squeeze up the configuration on the 737s. It will require someone to swallow their pride but they can't continue on as is. Their biggest worry is the longer they delay the pivot, the more QF, VA and, particularly, JQ claim these leisure markets for themselves. Soon there will be nothing to chase and then pin-pulling becomes a very live option.

[On eyre]

I don't know about pulling the plug but I wouldn't be surprised to see them announce a "pivot" towards being a leisure based jet operation only very shortly. This would enable them to graciously exit their disastrous foray into MEL-SYD and expand into leisure routes such as CNS, MCY and HTI. At the same time, they could get rid of the pointless J class cabin, move to BoB menu and squeeze up the configuration on the 737s. It will require someone to swallow their pride but they can't continue on as is. Their biggest worry is the longer they delay the pivot, the more QF, VA and, particularly, JQ claim these leisure markets for themselves. Soon there will be nothing to chase and then pin-pulling becomes a very live option.

JS wouldn’t know how to swallow 🤪

But dishing out blame ? Now that’s a different story.

[Australopithecus]

Saw a tiny load board a Rex 737 in OOL a couple of days ago. Mentioned to my partner that their slogan seems unfinished.
”Our heart is in the country” makes me think “but your head is up your @rse”

[pinkpanther1]

Jetstar are moving to 120% pre Covid capacity. That’s the Tiger share. Rex just gets the scraps I guess.

Questionable scraps also, 3% load on this mornings first flight.

3%? That's what.....5 pax on a 737?

[No Idea Either]

Saw a tiny load board a Rex 737 in OOL a couple of days ago. Mentioned to my partner that their slogan seems unfinished.
”Our heart is in the country” makes me think “but your head is up your @rse”

haaa haaaa, or ‘our heart is in the country’ but our bank account is in Singapore

[Agent_86]

But dishing out blame ? Now that’s a different story.

He's already bashing QF in the media again...

[pinkpanther1]

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/rex-accuses-qantas-group-capacity-dumping/

Gotta love the predictability! What a pathetic whinger that man is.

[airdualbleedfault]

Welcome to Australian domestic jet ops John boy, did you really think it would be the same as operating you're ancient bugsmashers out bush :}

[430W]

Knows nothing. Just a mouth piece (because Kim H can't do it) and a lobbyist.

[planedriver]

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/rex-accuses-qantas-group-capacity-dumping/

Gotta love the predictability! What a pathetic whinger that man is.

The whinging mouthpiece hasn’t hit mainstream media as yet. Maybe they are getting fed up reporting the same old rhetoric

[TimmyTee]

If that is the real GT that recently joined this forum (highly unlikely I know, but as the owner of airlineratings, he’d be the person to talk to), can you please ask the hard hitting questions to this bloke, like “how is flying multiple flights daily with less than 20 passengers on board” sustainable, especially given REX don’t have access to the “avJobKeeper” since they only joined the fight mid-Covid? Frustrating that all these journos publish REXs demand/whinge sheet, repeat non-factual garbage straight from Sharp’s mouth, and never question any of it.

[Pundit]

What sort of loads are REX carrying in the 737?

[wheels_down]

Last few weeks hard to judge as its School holidays. Sydney is very up and down. Largely 10-20 people. However does spike, lunchtime today 90%. Today’s 4 and 5pm is 20 bodies each. Virgin full.

ADL/OOL 90%
SYD 10%

Early sort of data points toward a) Sydney is more full outside of peak times, so largely targeting wrong market and schedule b) Leisure demand is strong potential opportunity

However if the numbers drop next week they are f*****. Can’t rely on a few holidays a year to fill seats. So they need to not bother with BNE and next weeks Canberra missions will be a disaster.

[SHVC]

Last few weeks hard to judge as its School holidays. Sydney is very up and down. Largely 10-20 people. However does spike, lunchtime today 90%. Today’s 4 and 5pm is 20 bodies each. Virgin full.

ADL/OOL 90%
SYD 10%

Early sort of data points toward a) Sydney is more full outside of peak times, so largely targeting wrong market and schedule b) Leisure demand is strong potential opportunity

However if the numbers drop next week they are f*****. Can’t rely on a few holidays a year to fill seats. So they need to not bother with BNE and next weeks Canberra missions will be a disaster.

Where do you get your data from?

[lc_461]

Although government travel is way down, Rex may do OK Sydney Canberra because they are a 'preferred' company under WOAG travel guidelines. Ie it would be very difficult for a public servant to justify booking travel on a 0900 SYDCBR QF flight if a 0905 Rex flight was cheaper.
Plus I imagine the trip cost of a clapped out Saab over a short distance would be competitive.

[PoppaJo]

I assume people are looking at online availability platforms like Expert Flyer. Post departure they are bang on in accuracy. Pre departure most certainly not. They are useful for award planning. I have no idea if Rex is on these platforms as many charge for subscription. Virgin is and I’ve used it before and it’s a bit iffy in the lead up to flight however 100% accurate seat maps post flight.

[SHVC]

Although government travel is way down, Rex may do OK Sydney Canberra because they are a 'preferred' company under WOAG travel guidelines. Ie it would be very difficult for a public servant to justify booking travel on a 0900 SYDCBR QF flight if a 0905 Rex flight was cheaper.
Plus I imagine the trip cost of a clapped out Saab over a short distance would be competitive.

Is your 0900 QF flight is a jet?? or does your alternative have a nice lounge?? a lot of the pollies and high end business clients do not want to travel on turbo props( I know from previous experience) and the same amount have lounge access in their contracts.

Rex will loose a fortune running 7 x daily SY-CB flights. On top of their lack of passenger demand on the jet operation.

[turbantime]

Although government travel is way down, Rex may do OK Sydney Canberra because they are a 'preferred' company under WOAG travel guidelines. Ie it would be very difficult for a public servant to justify booking travel on a 0900 SYDCBR QF flight if a 0905 Rex flight was cheaper.
Plus I imagine the trip cost of a clapped out Saab over a short distance would be competitive.
IF it was cheaper, which it won’t be. Takes care of that problem.

[MickG0105]

Although government travel is way down, Rex may do OK Sydney Canberra because they are a 'preferred' company under WOAG travel guidelines. Ie it would be very difficult for a public servant to justify booking travel on a 0900 SYDCBR QF flight if a 0905 Rex flight was cheaper.
Plus I imagine the trip cost of a clapped out Saab over a short distance would be competitive.
Rex have got a few 2 hour or greater holes in their schedule at some fairly important times (eg SYD-CBR there's an 8am then a 10am, similar in the evening 5pm and then 7pm). Any public servant familiar with the one hour window provision in the Lowest Practical Fare rule will be able to dance through those gaps.

[dijical]

Rex have got a few 2 hour or greater holes in their schedule at some fairly important times (eg SYD-CBR there's an 8am then a 10am, similar in the evening 5pm and then 7pm). Any public servant familiar with the one hour window provision in the Lowest Practical Fare rule will be able to dance through those gaps.Here is Rex’s new Canberra Airport loungeCanberra's former international departures lounge will host all Rex passengers for the next three months. (https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-canberra-airport-lounge)

[EPIRB]

Here is Rex’s new Canberra Airport loungeCanberra's former international departures lounge will host all Rex passengers for the next three months. (https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/rex-canberra-airport-lounge)

I wonder how much that will cost them?

[Bull_Shark]

So with an upturn in domestic travel and Virgin, Qantas and Jetstar putting on extra aircraft and now requiring more crew, the whinging at Rex will soon turn to claims of other airlines ‘poaching’ their staff.

These highly experienced cabin crew and pilots Rex have recruited will surely be tempted to return to their legacy airlines especially given that Rex (as they very proudly made a point of when kicking off the jet operation) pay 20% less than Jetstar salaries.

This coupled with perks such as pay for your own ground schools, Uber for crew transport and lack of staff travel won’t make a long term career option at Rex seem inviting and when crew start leaving for better conditions the inevitable howling of unfairness will be echoing all the way up Baxter Rd to T2 at Sydney airport.

I guess the cadets will soon be forced to write even lengthier commitment and motivational letters prior to employment..

[pinkpanther1]

So with an upturn in domestic travel and Virgin, Qantas and Jetstar putting on extra aircraft and now requiring more crew, the whinging at Rex will soon turn to claims of other airlines ‘poaching’ their staff.

These highly experienced cabin crew and pilots Rex have recruited will surely be tempted to return to their legacy airlines especially given that Rex (as they very proudly made a point of when kicking off the jet operation) pay 20% less than Jetstar salaries.

This coupled with perks such as pay for your own ground schools, Uber for crew transport and lack of staff travel won’t make a long term career option at Rex seem inviting and when crew start leaving for better conditions the inevitable howling of unfairness will be echoing all the way up Baxter Rd to T2 at Sydney airport.

I guess the cadets will soon be forced to write even lengthier commitment and motivational letters prior to employment..

Whilst nothing would give me more pleasure than seeing Rex moan and cry, I don't think they'll have any shortage anytime soon. Plenty of redundant pilots with TR waiting to come back from the Middle East and Asia.

[SHVC]

I think they were also referring to cabin crew, just as hard to replace when they make them pay for everything when they could apply to any of the other 3 and be looked after.

[wheels_down]

Interesting numbers on the Canberra flights. Carrying more than most Melbourne/Sydney flights.

[1A_Please]

Interesting numbers on the Canberra flights. Carrying more than most Melbourne/Sydney flights.
A very low hurdle!!!

[Ladloy]

Interesting numbers on the Canberra flights. Carrying more than most Melbourne/Sydney flights.
Whay are they? I like your daily updates

[wheels_down]

A couple yesterday at 30 and 40%. Otherwise 90%-Full. Much the same today. However it might be game over the day Virgin rolls back in.

OOL/ADL still big numbers. The other route best not talked about.

[lc_461]

Well all airlines have certainly price gouged CBR since the pandemic began (and probably the dawn of time)... No LCC competition.

[Agent_86]

Another 738 for REX due in to Brisbane tonight ex Jakarta - VH-RYU

[1A_Please]

A couple yesterday at 30 and 40%. Otherwise 90%-Full. Much the same today. However it might be game over the day Virgin rolls back in.

OOL/ADL still big numbers. The other route best not talked about.
OOL gets a bit harder with school holidays wrapping up though weekend traffic should still be pretty good.
CBR will be a major challenge for ZL once Alliance starts flying the route for VA.
MEL-SYD is a disaster but no one in ZL management is prepared to swallow their pride just yet and admit the inevitable.
Still amazed that they haven't moved to a more leisure based model and tackled CNS and MCY. Other airlines are cleaning up on these routes and able to absorb the slower recovery in business routes by exploiting the booming leisure oriented routes.

[Agent_86]

JS is banging on this afternoon again in the AFR online accusing QF as 'technically' trading insolvent in their current financial position :rolleyes:

No Mr Joyce, Qantas’ ‘best game’ doesn’t beat Rex (afr.com) (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/no-mr-joyce-qantas-best-game-doesn-t-beat-rex-20210419-p57kjf)

[wheels_down]

They are throwing more flights at Adelaide later this week. Just announced.

[dijical]

They are throwing more flights at Adelaide later this week. Just announced.
Interesting. What are the details??

[turbantime]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-appeals-to-umpire-as-aviation-dogfight-gets-personal-20210429-p57nkn.html

[TBM-Legend]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/rex-appeals-to-umpire-as-aviation-dogfight-gets-personal-20210429-p57nkn.html


Sharp and Co will say anything for some free publicity portraying REX as the underdog....a sad old man

[PoppaJo]

That’s the first statement he has actually made giving a small hint of defeat and potential exit. He had been very vocal as we all know around how good it is to start a airline, we are going great guns etc..

Parked alongside at OOL the other day they can’t keep going with these numbers. We counted 9 offloaded and the baggage cart had about half dozen bags for the return.

I am led to believe that they are also flying some zero flights. Not sure if anyone can verify that.

[Bull_Shark]

It’s simple.

Qantas and Virgin (like every airline in the world) had virtually ground to a halt during the worst aviation crisis the world has seen and are now ramping up operations, stimulating demand and getting aircraft and staff flying again, even if that means not necessarily making huge sums of money in the short term.

While Rex was the only airline in the world to make a profit on the back of massive government handouts and leveraged that position to take a massive gamble on what the Australian aviation landscape would look like post COVID by starting an entirely new jet operation.

Now that their expensive Jet operation gamble has failed spectacularly it’s a bit rich to blame the incumbents when their whole business model revolved around there not being a Virgin Australia to compete with 🙄

[pinkpanther1]

This is just sad to watch. When will this man actually take some responsibility? It beggars belief that he can actually make these statements and be taken seriously. The ACCC must have a special Rex inbox to handle all the appeals that come their way. Embarrassing!

[Saintly]

I see Alliance is retiring the F50. Could REX use these aircraft and strengthen their turboprop operations in conjunction with the proposed ATR's?

[On eyre]

I refer to my post #398
Getting very close now - five months and fourteen days and counting 😳

[Paragraph377]

This is just sad to watch. When will this man actually take some responsibility?
That’s the problem. He was a politician. He is used to doing and saying whatever he wants under parliamentary privilege. He is used to getting whatever he wants, when he wants. He is used to doing whatever he wants without being held to account. He is used to doing slippery deals behind protected doors that always benefits himself. He has taken that mindset and applied it to REX. Unfortunately he is too stupid to realise that although he can still call in favours, he no longer has the full freedom to do as he wants without consequences, without accountability even.

The decision to start 737 operations should ultimately be laid at the Board Chairman and CEO’s feet. The two of them got this business decision very wrong and they are paying a huge price for it, with more pain to come. Sharp might go down screaming that the entire world is at fault and not him, but it won’t change the fact that he has screwed up big time. The 737 operation will end in tears. And even though Joyce is circling an injured lamb and would love to bury them once and for all, he is playing a smart game. He knows the REX 737 operation is bleeding to death. Why risk the ire of the Australian public or a pineapple from the ACCC when REX is killing itself off without help from anybody else!

[1A_Please]

I see Alliance is retiring the F50. Could REX use these aircraft and strengthen their turboprop operations in conjunction with the proposed ATR's?
The F50s may be too young for Rex to consider.

[1A_Please]

That’s the problem. He was a politician. He is used to doing and saying whatever he wants under parliamentary privilege. He is used to getting whatever he wants, when he wants. He is used to doing whatever he wants without being held to account. He is used to doing slippery deals behind protected doors that always benefits himself. He has taken that mindset and applied it to REX. Unfortunately he is too stupid to realise that although he can still call in favours, he no longer has the full freedom to do as he wants without consequences, without accountability even.

The decision to start 737 operations should ultimately be laid at the Board Chairman and CEO’s feet. The two of them got this business decision very wrong and they are paying a huge price for it, with more pain to come. Sharp might go down screaming that the entire world is at fault and not him, but it won’t change the fact that he has screwed up big time. The 737 operation will end in tears. And even though Joyce is circling an injured lamb and would love to bury them once and for all, he is playing a smart game. He knows the REX 737 operation is bleeding to death. Why risk the ire of the Australian public or a pineapple from the ACCC when REX is killing itself off without help from anybody else!
It is hard to see what Sharp expects ACCC to do. Does he think a certain % of market share should be set aside for REX's use or that QF and VA have to charge a set fare? As was stated both airlines are effectively restarting from a ridiculously low base so, of course, they are adding capacity regularly and are also stimulating demand through rolling special deals. REX's entire jet expansion was predicated on the mistaken belief that VA would not restart and REX could copy Virgin Blue's 2001 playbook and become Australia's second airline. When Bain announced they were purchasing VA, REX should have seen that its attempt to start a jet operation was doomed. Bain was investing way too much to allow VA to fail.

Some have suggested that REX had a long-term plan to prompt Bain to also enquire the REX operation. That may have been a plan if they had maintained a successful regional operation and stuck to their knitting. It looks like REX will emerge from this folly severely weakened so Bain will not be interested in acquiring from the shareholders and will probably prefer to wait until they can get business from administrators at a discount price without the associated liabilities having to be taken on.

[ebt]

It is hard to see what Sharp expects ACCC to do. Does he think a certain % of market share should be set aside for REX's use or that QF and VA have to charge a set fare? As was stated both airlines are effectively restarting from a ridiculously low base so, of course, they are adding capacity regularly and are also stimulating demand through rolling special deals. REX's entire jet expansion was predicated on the mistaken belief that VA would not restart and REX could copy Virgin Blue's 2001 playbook and become Australia's second airline. When Bain announced they were purchasing VA, REX should have seen that its attempt to start a jet operation was doomed. Bain was investing way too much to allow VA to fail.

Some have suggested that REX had a long-term plan to prompt Bain to also enquire the REX operation. That may have been a plan if they had maintained a successful regional operation and stuck to their knitting. It looks like REX will emerge from this folly severely weakened so Bain will not be interested in acquiring from the shareholders and will probably prefer to wait until they can get business from administrators at a discount price without the associated liabilities having to be taken on.

I imagine that even Rex doesn't expect the ACCC to do much, if anything at all. The only play I can see is that the ACCC gives them a shoutout in their next quarterly report on the state of the aviation market. If they got really excited the ACCC could investigate potential capacity dumping by QF/JQ/VA, but it is hard to make a case of that, and even harder for them to do anything about it. Rex is just making a lot of hot air in the same way that Ryanair does it - get the brand out, sell the woe is me, and hope that people will buy tickets off the back of it. It sounds simple but it is a fine balance because people won't buy tickets on a carrier that is, intentionally or not, admitting that they are struggling. I would think it would be better to complain less about your competitors (at least in the public sphere) and focus on spruiking how good your airline is, but my guess is that is not in Sharpy's playbook as it doesn't usually work well for pollies, especially those of a conservative ilk.

[minigundiplomat]

my guess is that is not in Sharpy's playbook as it doesn't usually work well for pollies, especially those of a conservative ilk.

Or any ilk. Wouldn't see me rushing to buy tickets on Victoria's 'Dan Air' whilst I could walk to WA.

[Saintly]

The F50s may be too young for Rex to consider.

Saab's are not as old as the F50s

[1A_Please]

Saab's are not as old as the F50s
We need a sarcasm emoji it seems.

[MickG0105]

Saab's are not as old as the F50s
Average fleet age is about the same. Rex's oldest Saab and Alliance's oldest F50 are the same age - they both rolled off their respective production lines within two days of each other back in June 1989.

[Saintly]

We need a sarcasm emoji it seems.

Nah all good mate. I could see the humour. I just responded differently. Cheers.

[Saintly]

Average fleet age is about the same. Rex's oldest Saab and Alliance's oldest F50 are the same age - they both rolled off their respective production lines within two days of each other back in June 1989.

I dont think REX will choose the F50 anyway. Probably not an aircraft they rate or not in their radar. Maybe ATM'S perhaps.

[SHVC]

Going off the loads of their 73 of late, they could make more out of using PA-31

[Chris2303]

So how was their "busy" Friday night?

[pinkpanther1]

Nothing above 35 pax in the last week

[On eyre]

Nothing above 35 pax in the last week

On which route(s) ?
Or is that across the jet network ?
The clock is ticking louder 😳

[TBM-Legend]

Nothing above 35 pax in the last week


Hey, that's a full SAAB 340 load....

[pinkpanther1]

On which route(s) ?
Or is that across the jet network ?
The clock is ticking louder 😳
My Understanding is that was across the entire Jet Network.

[On eyre]

My Understanding is that was across the entire Jet Network.

Anyone called “Mayday” yet ??

[Deano969]

Build it and they will come....

[1A_Please]

Build it and they will come....
What have they built that the other 3 airlines don't already have operating on a much larger scale? There is absolutely nothing unique about REX's jet offering apart from cheap prices which only reinforces the fear that they are going broke.

[neville_nobody]

There is absolutely nothing unique about REX's jet offering apart from cheap prices which only reinforces the fear that they are going broke.

All pilots need to remember this next time it is EBA negotiation. The mantra from the top has always been airlines are price sensitive, people are only interested in paying the lowest fare and that's why we can't give you a payrise. If REX are the lowest fare and are not filling seats that will indicate something about the price sensitivity of the market.

[1A_Please]

All pilots need to remember this next time it is EBA negotiation. The mantra from the top has always been airlines are price sensitive, people are only interested in paying the lowest fare and that's why we can't give you a payrise. If REX are the lowest fare and are not filling seats that will indicate something about the price sensitivity of the market.
It tells us that price sensitivity curve also interacts with risk sensitivity; that is all. It's similar to saying if I offered a $5 fare on SYD-MEL but it was on an unmaintained 50 year old 727, would anyone buy a seat? Virtually non-existent marketing except doomsday whinging from JS doesn't help.

[PoppaJo]

If you look at his whinging around ‘capacity dumping’ and look at the pre COVID schedules of the carriers, the only mob capacity dumping is Rex.

Anyways, the extra capacity or this so called dumping around the place is all on runs Rex has no life on.

They have no case. What’s the ACCC going to say to Jetstar. No you can’t use your 788s on domestic cause Rexy has started ops.. keep them in the desert thanks burning cash...

Sure let’s just get everyone keeping these machines parked up all over the joint so this little country battler mob can make some inroads. Fark off.

[On eyre]

If you look at his whinging around ‘capacity dumping’ and look at the pre COVID schedules of the carriers, the only mob capacity dumping is Rex.

Anyways, the extra capacity or this so called dumping around the place is all on runs Rex has no life on.

They have no case. What’s the ACCC going to say to Jetstar. No you can’t use your 788s on domestic cause Rexy has started ops.. keep them in the desert thanks burning cash...

Sure let’s just get everyone keeping these machines parked up all over the joint so this little country battler mob can make some inroads. Fark off.

So I’ll call it - Rex got NFI in this game.

[MELKBQF]

REX have dropped fares to $39 tomorrow on MEL-SYD most flights.

[Green.Dot]

REX have dropped fares to $39 tomorrow on MEL-SYD most flights.

VA is also putting on numerous $39 fares throughout the week. It would appear Jayne wants to close out the match.

[On eyre]

VA is also putting on numerous $39 fares throughout the week. It would appear Jayne wants to close out the match.

12 days to go for six month life prediction I made November 14 last year - sad.

[SOPS]

I have said this before.... when the taxi fare to the airport is more than the flight ticket .. something is very wrong.

[pinkpanther1]

So 8x39 = $312 revenue on a 90 minute sector.


Ouch!

[On eyre]

I have said this before.... when the taxi fare to the airport is more than the flight ticket .. something is very wrong.

Too true. There will be lots of excuses being dreamed up as we speak.

[dijical]

REX have dropped fares to $39 tomorrow on MEL-SYD most flights.

It looks like REX is making the $39 fare available on all MEL-SYD flights through to 28 August.
It'll be interesting to see how serious Virgin/Jetstar will be in matching that amount for that length of time.
Bloodbath.

[On eyre]

It looks like REX is making the $39 fare available on all MEL-SYD flights through to 28 August.
It'll be interesting to see how serious Virgin/Jetstar will be in matching that amount for that length of time.
Bloodbath.

Will not be a problem for VA or JQ - Rex will be out of here well before then.

[MickG0105]

It looks like REX is making the $39 fare available on all MEL-SYD flights through to 28 August.

Short of a 2001 Essendonesque comeback Rex won't be flying jets come 28 August.

[1A_Please]

So 8x39 = $312 revenue on a 90 minute sector.


Ouch!
REX would not even be covering their airport fees on their MEL-SYD services currently. The amount of money they must be losing is truly frightening.

With the increasing risk of REX's failure and shutdown, even $39 looks expensive currently unless you are walking up to board the flight straight away