Qatar salary reductions and redundancies 😬

[flyfor]

FlyingAce77, please tell me that you are kidding:

Aslam Kareem - a nice guy?
He is the one who operates the guillotine.

[FlyingAce77]

I wanted someone to read between the lines” You did, I appreciate it! :)

He is the King Maker right now in QR, You want NOC butter him up, You want to extend your stay Butter Him Up, You want your EOSB Butter him up. He is just a “Manager” but with the Powers of “Chief”.

[flyfor]

Yet, both of them are just 5 feet high.

[flareflyer]

Hello gents
just for curiosity what is now with the reduced contract the actual income for a captain?
do you still have provident fund? Housing allowance? Educational allowance?

[gpsprimary01]

Hi Guys, it's been a while. everyone is so quiet :-) . i've just talked to a friend who still employed by QR. Looks like they have stopped the redundancy because they are starting their new financial year in April 2021 (It doesn't mean they won't redundant staff, but they were rushing to do it before 01st of April).

Does anyone knows if they've implemented a procedure to bring back staff who were outside DOHA?
Especially for pilots? any manual for rejoining pilots ? and what happen if the rating expire? how to get back an RP?

I hope one of you could have an answer to these questions.

God luck to all.

[dajaaj]

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.”by: Stephen King

..so the saying goes, i hope most of us (redundant flight crews) would think a million times and reflect how we get to where we are right now....just my 2cents.

[Silver68]

Anyone care to explain the rationale behind Qatar laying off pilots prior to the dnd of the financial year? Heard this already but I don’t understand the benefit to the airline only to rehire a few months later...

[gpsprimary01]

Hi Silver68, it's probably linked to the budget of their financial year.

[Papa_Golf]

Rationale and Qatar in the same sentence. Not a common sight.

[CDRW]

Its difficult to fathom the level of incompetence in the QR Flight Ops / Man Power management with the latest e mail.

[gpsprimary01]

Hi there, what was the email about? can you talk about it ?

[Silver68]

Care to share?

[lfbb]

All May and June leaves were canceled, at least on 777.

[777kicker]

And hundreds of 777 pilots at home that could be called today and be back operational by June, some amazing rationale must be behind all that

[gpsprimary01]

I think they can't bring back so many crew because of covid restriction. they lock down the country again.

[777kicker]

Construction and Oil&Gas people are entering without restrictions, direct personal knowledge. So, the biggest baddest immigration department in the country cannot find a way? Really?

[gpsprimary01]

you are right 777Kicker, if they really want they can find a solution. And i expect the things will not improve as we all know during ramadan everything is slowing down in Doha (which is totally normal). Let's hope some good news in the coming weeks.

[WrldWide]

Will be interesting to see how well the recruitment goes if it is a reduced package. The current contract will not be honored until there is difficulty filling the flight decks.

[gpsprimary01]

I think it's a question of time. So many serious studies predict a shortage of pilot by 2025.
Airlines may loose 15 to 20 % of gross revenue due to shortage of crew.

[fatbus]

2025 means they will address in 2025 ( ME read late 2025) .

[KingAir1978]

gpsprimary01

Could you provide some sources for this profound wisdom?

[Python27]

63% per cent of the people create figures to prove their point, regardless of it making any sense. In this case, according to my numbers, 92% of probability of not making sense at all...

[gpsprimary01]

Here we go

https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2021/mar/after-covid-19-aviation-faces-a-pilot-shortage.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/02/perspectives/pilot-shortage-pandemic/index.html
https://www.aerotime.aero/27614-massive-delta-flight-cancelations
https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/02/perspectives/pilot-shortage-pandemic/index.html

[immapostthis]

gpsprimary01 No need to sound like a bummer.... but stories and stats like this have been posted for years! When in reality, if the world needs pilots, trust me there are bodies willing to fly, but it is just the problem of; airlines need experienced guys and guys need experience.... negative feedback loop. Remember the days when you just came out of flight school. Like most of us here, we were hoping and praying to get some experience somewhere... luckily someone like you did... i strayed a bit.. but PERSONALLY I don't believe the demand will be soooo great. If they need pilots, they take who they fired and if people don't come back, just like before they will mass train....

In other news, can anyone provide rumors/updates they are hearing?

Cabin crew that were trapped outside were asked to return and they have started back flying...
With the new financial year are pilot expected to get hired?


What is up with the fleets;

380 any news?
350 any new hires? on the 350 I know some 320 captains are moving across...
320 any news?
anyone heard about a bunch of 777 guys leaving because they count get leave to go home? ( South American pilots specifically )
anyone heard about a bunch of 350 guys leaving because they can get better pay outside of QA?

Would the UK ban go away?
anyone aware of people who returned to QA Flight deck recently ( recently = march- present)

Spill some beans guyssss!!

[CDRW]

As the saying goes " the chickens have come home to roost" - bad things the company did in the past ( such the almost gleeful " redundancy " of wattsapp users, crew they didn't want ) will come back to haunt them. The blanket cancellation of leave for the 777 fleet is a desperate move to cover the managements ineptitude.

QR will get new applicants- for sure - but this year long debacle of pilot" redundancies" closely followed by pilot hiring will sit on the mind of many people as to just how much value a crew member is to this outfit.

[Silver68]

Recall emails have been sent, with tentative dates set for end of April/ beginning of May. A few have been given dates of return already. This is for 787 and 777; unsure of any other fleets. Contracts appear to be similar to the previous one, apart from the 25% deduction. That's all I know.

[007busdriver]

I have some friends who have been called back recently to join on April and May. They're flying on 777/787 fleets. But no information about other fleets. Hope they would all follow..

[mmorel]

Are they offering first year salary and do they keep the same employee number or a new number will be generated again with lower seniority?

[Silver68]

As I understand it, new contract, new staff number and bottom of the seniority.

[jacekgfly]

LOL What seniority? LOL

[Silver68]

Just answering the question.

[jadrolinija]

Did redundant guys who were called back have to go through assesment process again?

[Aviateur86]

As far as I know the only redundant guys that were sent the rejoining email are those with past warning letters and two of them almost 59 years old with previous simulators failure, very very strange, most probably is the qatari way of showing the world that they care about their ex redundant crew and are doing the best they can to have them all back while in reality they don't give a **** , as the pilot community well knows.
They sent this ridicolous invitation email that anticipates a new assessment process with psychological quizzes etc etc, some guys have already failed the rejoining process btw.
Those who will rush to join this company of incompetent traitors will have an amazingly new staff number, ridicolous salary and start from the bottom for god knows what punishment, some smarter ones have already offered a better position elsewhere in Europe and Asia and will not show up because things are moving everywhere, just a little more patience and the covid inertia will finish.
Who will join, even if inexperienced for the B77 fleet will be allocated that airplane and will be bonded in order not to escape in one year.
Qatar Boeing pilots had all may june leave cancelled and with a chance reaching 99% will spend the rest of the summer working like crazy, if they cannot fly their planes now, imagine in july august september, no way, thanks to the SUPER managers Qatar chose to handle the crisis and the best is yet to come, just prepare your popcorn.

[Silver68]

Incompetent traitor? Seriously, who do you think you are?

Firstly, the pilots that I know that have been asked back are of good caliber, with no disciplinary record. Secondly, I will work where I choose and for who I choose. Ever heard of beggars cannot be choosers? Well thats me. Incompetent I am not and as for being a traitor, please.

Please enlighten me as to who is recruiting in Europe? As far as I know it's still too early to get excited.

[FlyingAce77]

They surely are incompetent- while they expand, just today QR is laying off 600 more cabin crew while LOCP crew outside is being call back- this is what is called incompetence, when airline doesn’t know what and how is the expansion going to happen.

[Silver68]

Not sure we’re on the same page. Pilots returning from redundancy were being calling incompetent traitors.

[WrldWide]

I read that as a reference to the cullers in the office as being traitors.

[Silver68]

Fair point. Whilst I get the reference to incompetence, not sure I follow the traitor part.

[fatbus]

English not first language problem. I agree with wrldwide !

[FlightDetent]

not sure I follow the traitor part. Crossing languages is like crossing time-zones. Would "back-stabber" do? (not involved, just a linguistic observation)

[Aviateur86]

Just to be clear, when I mentioned the words incompetent and traitors, I was referring exclusively to the management part of Qatar Airways, not to our rejoining colleagues of course.
I have no clue on how many guys were contacted in total and the fleet they were coming from but some of the pilots I was referring to, belongs to a fleet that I know very well, I've seen their training files, not to mention other "pearls" they managed to deliver, all I wanted to say is that IF this was my Company, I would start by calling the most performing ones, not the ones with problems but we all know how it works here, don't we ?
Qatar Airways, the richest company from the richest Country in the area manages to terminate pilots regardless of their seniority, experience, performance, absolutely DISGUSTING, while Emirates, Flydubai and others kept their pilots on unpaid leave with all the benefits and only made redundant those with long unexplained sick leave or similar; Unfair for some but respectful to the rest of the community.
Don't forget that QR asked some of their most senior staff on the 330 to help during the aircraft phase out then suddenly said : GOODBYEEEEEE, WE WERE JOKING !
That filthy attitude makes me call someone a traitor my friend.

[Fired600]

Emirates made pilots redundant who had had surgery, cancer and pregnant ladies, none of those are ‘unexplained’ and are disgusting. and with total disregard to seniority experience or performance. I hardly think that is respectful, and sounds pretty similar to Qatar

[fatbus]

A vast majority of EK pilots that were culled were "good guys" .

[FlyingAce77]

Resigns coming in on by Couple of B777 FD Crew that I know personally” let Dumbos sitting in Flight ops taste their own medicine.. “Enough is Enough” said one!

[gpsprimary01]

Totally right, enough is enough. With a 777 experience they will probably find a job somewhere else in a near futur. It's a positif sign if experience people resign from this company. The way they have managed this redundancies is stupid, and they have to pay for that.
I really wish to never go back there, I will if they call me now, but I will leave as soon as I find a job in Europe.

God bleu you all.

[fatbus]

"Probably in the near future " may be somewhat optimistic. I know a few but so far that's it and it's been a year .

[CDRW]

Al Baker must be steaming! To actually have a commercial advertisement that acknowledges the pilots must hurt, -and now restore the salaries must be devastating to his ego!
As was said a while ago. Enough is enough!

[immapostthis]

For the staff that work here in Qatar Airways, one should know the number 1 rule of how things are done here.... EK must do it 1st, then QA will follow....

EK cut staff -> QA cut staff
EK trying to reopen flights -> QA open flights
EK brings back salary -> QA brings back salary

Congrats to all who will get their full salaries again! With all the :mad: going on, shows some symbol of recovery.... think about it like this now... firing has stop ( Hopefully) so now you won't need to worry about your job every time you land. Expect to only get fired after your :mad: ups...

But my recommendation to all pilots.... if you get your opportunity to leave RUN! I know the money may look good here in QA but it is not worth it... I am advising all my buds on all fleets... leave and go... demand is picking up in most places except EU (EU slow pick up)... there are many openings in AU, NZ, America, Far East, Africa, Pacific, even EK if you could... you life would be much better... Let QA be a memory if you could leave it... let them deal with their problems and 'progress' without you good men and women....

Keep the post coming guys! If anyone has updates on anything else, I along with many others can't wait to read!

Airbus Fleet
Boeing Fleet
Leaving Pilots
Joining Pilots
Cabin Crew
Hourly Rates
Flight Frequencies
UK Retuning flights
India....... let me take a second to talk about India... those :mad: need to get their :mad: together and stop having such high spikes of C19... it is unbelievable now! AND QA demands that market! What is the problem with India so much....

Anyhow.... spill the beans!

P.s. No need to get so defensive or offended here guys...

[fatbus]

"there are many openings in AU, NZ, America, Far East, Africa, Pacific, even EK" what are your sources? I have many colleagues (@1500) at EK and CZ that would love to know !

[Silver68]

So, return to full pay for existing flight deck. A 25% reduction for those returning. Not sure how long that will last..... deck crew on different pay for the same job. It does make you wonder though; most of us knew that they cut the flight deck by too many crew and it seems this was the case. Therefore, it seems obvious now that they had planned to re-hire crew on a permanent 25% reduction from the start.

How many returning crew are re-considering their options?

How many will return regardless?

[WB1900]

where do you have openings at ek from - ek has just called a handful of pilots from UPL - no openings there
mew t n c at ek are not defined yet and they have already cut schooling allowance by15% which means everyone must add from his pocket to the kids in school
housing is down to company accom only unless u brav enough(or stupid) to buy now and have a thought about it as banks are not giving mortgages or loans (not even car loans) to EK employees - even Emirates Ndb does not where where the chief is the same as EK as an airline - think about that - when your airline boss does not give u a loan as your bank boss
so much about the trust in an ek emoloyment

[FlyingAce77]

Basic salary back to normal as of 1st April. Flight pay still reduced.
For the Cabin Crew its 700QAR but 600 more are being laid off meanwhile for FD Crew Its 3-5K QAR but habibti said that Education allowance is being slashed soon - percentage is yet to be known!

[Python27]

.... a midget takes 3 hostages and releases one of them."

Afterwards many minions are dealing with as an "act of goodwill" and as improvement.

This is why this airline is the last options among so many pilots, and the only for others.

The place doesn't impresses me anymore though. But the people working on it they do...

[iggy]

I was in QAR many moons ago, and at that time I heard legends of ATR Captains being thrown on the left seat of a 330 because the company had no option if they wanted to crew the flights. I've always refused to believe it but... now it looks plausible.

Even if they booked external sims, they still have the issue of the quarantine into the country where the sim is, right?

[The Lost Goat]

Yes they may be short of pilots but they are not hiring from outside, they are rejoining pilots who were made redundant. Apparently they asked 120 to return and only 20 replied positively.

[immapostthis]

Sorry for not stating things clearly guys and gals. Yes, markets are opening examples include;

Bamboo
Vietnam Airlines
Oman Air
Airnorth
Alfa
Hong Kong Cargo ( or something along those lines)
ExecuJet
Breeze

just to name a few.

WRT EK, I did not mean to imply they are hiring, sorry for tham I meant to say that if you get the opportunity to go there instead of QA, you should seeing that it is the lesser of 2 evils.

SandPilot350 this is sooo true but 777 was a problem pre pandemic the back log of cargo alone is a problem with the 777. So i doubt anything will be done about that anytime soon. Customers who have contracts with QA are getting :mad: by QA cargo department, as QA cannot fulfil all the cargo orders but they desperately need their cargo to move look at Aliexpress and Alibaba. Their own cargo airline but QA still has contracts with them for cargo shipping which has problems on it's own.

The Lost Goat Are you sure about this statement? "Apparently they asked 120 to return and only 20 replied positively."
I CAN BE WRONG HERE but i believe most people are coming back the problem is actually with RPs (another rumor i cannot confirm) which makes no sense to me But I hope most people deny jobs back here in ackbar airways. after treating staff this bad WITH NO PRUBLICITY ABOUT IT. i hope people stay away.

What I would like to say. I think salaries were reinstated not because that the airline cares about you guys LOL. but actually because of the amount of people leaving. pilots need the incentive to stay. What i have heard is; 777 South American pilots left, 350 Pilots left. Which are the 2 fleets really flying. so it is expected.

Let's hope QA starts back being the airline MASS hiring again.

Keep with the updates and rumor guys GOOD JOB!

[gpsprimary01]

Hi the lost goat.
I'm not surprise about what you say knowing how they treat their FDC. But from where have you heard that?
Thanks.

[Monkey Brains]

Any idea about the number of 320 guys still in the country? Why they don’t use them like 330/380 guys for Boeing?

[bananaman2]

is this with or without the 25% reduction?... I know pilots (rejoiners) who received contracts based on yr1 base pay reduced by 25%... so what you say is actually better.

Of the people I spoke to when you say seniority... generally we’re talking staff number here... they couldn’t give a monkeys - if you enter on the 777, it’s unlikely you’re going anywhere else i.e Fleet Transfer (for DEC)... so essentially all the staff number is good for is staff travel. For FOs it’s important for Command Upgrade (if you’re planning on staying that long!).

[007busdriver]

So which information is correct then?
The contracts has been offered to my friends, are with %25 pay cut in the basic salary. So apparently re-joiners will work with different contracts than contiuers..

[The Rage]

The guys were probably offered rejoining contracts before the 25% salary reinstatement. Its probably back to the normal year 1 salary now.
Married pilots, especially those with families may not return. Don't think the wives would be too happy in relocating especially, after the way they were treated. Some could commute, but if the company plans on reducing the terms of the schooling allowance and the quantum then that would be a big NO NO. Some may still come back. At the end of the day, everyone that returns have their own reasons. Thinks have not been easy for everyone over the last year and still no one knows exactly when they may get a new job or a recall. Circumstances change for everyone from day to day.

But those who do return would definitely bailout the moment they get offered a decent job or the moment they finish their bond. There is no more loyalty either way, the airline showed everyone that they were just a number. And that they can do anything as they please. I personally see the ME3 having a hard time keeping people after this. Turn over rate is going to be higher than before. It would affect them in their expansion plans. Only way to mitigate it would be to offer higher salaries in the coming years. They were one of the higher paying airlines about 10 years ago, but not anymore, lots of others have caught up with them. The only thing that had going for themselves was family security, a decent salary and the perks. All of that aint going to matter to most once the jobs open up.

[007busdriver]

O totally agree with your second paragraph :ok:

[Monkey Brains]

Inside the company or redundant guys?

[airbus350captain1]

so what about the people who joined first and left first. you are lucky now but once you are senior enough they might kick you out again. the higher the seniority in Qatar equals less security of a job. Imagine you have an A350 type rating and you are over 55 years old where can you find a job that accepts you?

[mmorel]

Why did they fleet transfer from A350? I thought they were short of A350 flight crews.

[CDRW]

Why does QR flight ops/ HR do anything that needs forthought. They are reactionary driven. When times were good the numpties reduced the stby numbers to the bare minimum - all assuming things go normal. They relied on the goodwill of the crew to get the operation through if a hiccup occurs. They grabbed the new EASA FTLs with such glee they had a virtual orgasm - every long haul flight could be a maximum of 24hrs rest! Hallelujah! Reduce crew numbers further but keep the same operation. Keep it all legal by having a sham FRMS!

As said - the chickens are coming home to roost.

[tonker]

I was told by someone that works in Qatar, that Qatari employment law specifies that you should be paid the same wage for employees doing the same job etc. Not sure if that’s true or not. I was directed to Part six Article 65 of their employment law.

[WrldWide]

"Article (65) The Worker shall be entitled to the wages specified in the service contract and if the contract does not specify the wage the worker shall be entitled to the wage specified in the work regulations. If the wage is not specified in accordance with the preceding paragraph the worker shall be entitled to a wage equivalent to the wage specified for work of a similar type in the establishment and otherwise in accordance with the custom applicable to the profession in the place of performance of the work and if there is no such custom the judge shall specify the wage in accordance with the requirements of justice."

In the absence of a contract this would be true.

[007busdriver]

SandPilot350

OMG from A350 to 777 ? What might be the reaosn for that? Things getting complicated there..

[Python27]

WrldWide

Law? Contract? I'm a big fan of sandpit fairy tales too!

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=161937720925008

For those unaware of how the things work in this side of the world...
​​​​

[Ticker1]

007busdriver

From 350 to 777

From 777 to 787

From 320 to 350

WTF?

[fatbus]

Wasta at work !

[007busdriver]

Apparently!..

[ziubelu]

Because they react with six months delay about anything...777 are getting grounded for lack of crew, ooooppps they fired too many...and the chief must be pretty uncomfortable loosing 100.000 usd per aircraft per day for every aeroplane sitting under the sun.

[ziubelu]

Absolutely...fireworks on the way

[ziubelu]

...and about 50% showed the finger....

[Aviateur86]

Ticker1

I've never seen such a waste in my life, a total mess, absolute confusion, sending pilots with years and years of experience on Airbus to the B777, hopefully nothing will happen but this attitude is dangerous and not logical.Pilots from the 787 to 777 is more logical even if a big portion of them have no previous experience on those jets since they were recruited from 737 in below average companies, not to mention 787 cadets that are absolutely not ready for anything.
Qatar is the master of disorganization, they have close to zero respect for their active and ex crew, except the ones who have friends in the office and the Company will soon face massive delays in training thus leaving planes on the ground. Very poor managers here, usually they copy paste what EK does except this time, too bad for them.
Soon, when markets will recover, and they will, QR will be the last choice, exactly like in the past, I'm very curious to see from outside.

[007busdriver]

I think they will need to do a good increase on salary and other benefits to be chosen again..

[Nick 1]

They start recruitment for cadet pilot ( national only ) so problem solved ..:}

[fatbus]

They won't have any difficulty filling front seats for the foreseeable further . Just look east . As mentioned the cadet program as well.

[Python27]

The cadet program applies only to yallah yallah locals. You can't call it of a real demand for pilots, only an attempt to make the locals doing something useful...
​​

[ybot320]

Any idea if QR is planning to open the cadet program for non-Qatari residents, relatives of QR staff soon?

[fatbus]

What is interesting is airlines that did cadet SO compared to cadet FO. Not disputed the QR TRI claims but EK did ok with their cadets ( let's leave. 521out of this) . They increased the sectors under supervision and controlled destinations . Most that I flew with did well , 330 days !

[WB1900]

They did well? EK is one airline just doing the minimum.they believe you get a pilot by talking more in a briefing rather than showing it, put everybody on CBT and call it we educated them.

Other Airlines have somewhat up to 50 supervision sectors after the skills test and they don’t **** around in the sim. On the other hand you could call it a training. Because other airlines want candidates to succeed once they have selected them - this is a complete different story to what EK does

middle eastern airlines have nearly in nothing a consistency as they change their rules every day just to get airplanes flying - and training is not spared - the entey requirements have change in the past few years from astronaut to nearly being able to spell aviation
not that would be important but as a training Organisation a company should have a consistency and the willingness to get a output measurable on the same scale not driven by the luck of time and need
Just go and look what kind of fail pass rate companies like LH,AA,DL,DHL and so on have you would realize what training means and also see that EK is training wise extremely bad - just the people came their had been very good - but they were very good before EK, that’s the luck of EK that they have the people with the right attitude, and they have not been made by EK

[White Knight]

WB1900: I'm going to call you out on your last post. You are talking rubbish. In all the years at EK I've maybe encountered two (of what I would call) bad trainers... The rest have been excellent, and doing their best to impart knowledge and improve the lot of the line pilots.

If you've had consistent issues, or your friends have, I would look closer to home, and not blame the training department or the TRI/TREs. NOTE! I AM NOT involved in that department and never have been! I have though been a TRE pre EK so I think I know what I'm talking about.

[fatbus]

It was also @125 sectors .

[WB1900]

fatbus

but only for cadets - every one else had seen not more 10-12, right?

[WB1900]

White Knight

i was involved in training as well and have never seen something similar before.
nevertheless just because you had a good expierence means that everyone else had it two. Talking about issues - I would say constant 4 and 5 in EK means something when talking about issues - but means nothing if u meet 2,3 individuals on the wrong day - which brings it down to luck - and a company like EK must not depend on luck on the day X
but that’s exactly the problem there. The history only counts to find something bad never for the good and again it’s easy to project your positive experience into something where the individuals have the problem and it’s always the candidate who is the problem never the trainer nor the Organisation behind
i could provide you with details if u are intressted but I am not going to share it here, so if u interested pm me - I can give u examples of actions and the grading as an outcome including the arguments involved

[Flapsupbedsdown]

spoiler77

Interesting, pilot resignation these days means good chances not to find a job for some time regardless of fleet; so it is really true that in this airline salaries where so huge to enable being jobless for prolonged time. Good for this guys:ok:

[nimrodjoe]

Only EK pilots would take a QR thread and make it about themselves and EK. Sums up the typical EK pilot if you ask me.

[Xavelha]

I’d delete this tbh...

[777kicker]

Why? Because nimrodjoe has hit the nail right on the head?

[FlyingAce77]

Habibti says that Chief is pissed of at HR for Pilot Shortage, She said Chief said “Find him Pilots” Hr proposed that to cut off routes for summers & per day cost of not utilizing 777s is 100,000$ , she went to say, HR is in Deep :mad: along with Fleet Managers.

This was bound to happen
B777 commander getting 150hrs out of which 60-70hrs TRI in the sim ... Fatigued FD Crew we have- QR has lost his moral standing among the staff & the way they were treated & humiliated.

[777kicker]

Wouldn't shed a single tear for any of the above "in Deep :mad:" group, honestly.
Chief has little to complain since ":mad:" din't happen in a day or two, it's almost a year that QR is firing pilots like there is no tomorrow. Does he really realize only now the consequences ?
We should present him with a lifetime subscription to PPRune, because it has all been written in here for months. Vaccines are going since December, would he expect to take 5 years for things to pick up pace again? Why didn't he use any possible form of unpaid leave to keep the most expensive of his human asset?
:mad: doesn't fly, as every Pilot ( capital p) knows; throw up :mad: in the air and its gonna fall down on your head.

[casablanca]

I have a good friend who is on his final week....resigned without any job leads. He liked it there and had actually tried to discouraged me from leaving a year ago when I switched jobs. Now he says it is just that bad....constant fatigue and no carrot, just threats. Also hearing about many fuel emergencies because guys are afraid to take 1 drop extra for fear of losing their jobs. Doha has a beautiful airport and works well 99% of time but when a cb rolls across the little country ATC quickly becomes overwhelmed......just sad to see people have to be so fearful to make safe decisions.

[Whitemonk Returns]

If a professional pilot is declaring an emergency because he or she was too afraid to carry above minimum fuel they need to have a long hard chat with themselves, and if it happens more than once they should be stripped of their rank when they get back on the ground. In all airlines there are fuel misers and I'm sure we have all listened to obnoxious desk pilots who never fly about how reliable the minimum fuel figures are 99% of the time... my response? That's cool but I remember how it feels the 1% of the time it doesn't work out.

[lfbb]

Very well said... can't remember last time I took off taking only minimum fuel, and in 20 years it never cost my job nor got called to give any explanation. But lost count of how many times I was glad I did bring along that little extra fuel. In my humble opinion the trick is to not overdue it, this will keep you under the radar but at the same time save you some headaches form time to time. I know the company will never really agree to that and on paper everyone flying on minimum fuel as much as possible will always bring best financial results even if some flights are to be diverted, but screw them... I just wanna do my job as relaxed as possible to be able to make better decisions when things don't go according to the flight plan.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Totally agree. My response to anyone who insists on minimum fuel all the time is quite simple:

'Taking a little extra may cost a little more but not taking enough can get real expensive, real quick.'

[casablanca]

I always laughed...yes every college intern can calculate how much it cost to carry an extra ton of fuel per said flight...it’s on the flight plan. But they never mention how much it cost when a flight has to divert, and possibly the crew will exceed their max duty and passengers have to be accommodated etc... and this isn’t even considering the safety of the flight as cnn so accurately reported “ the 777 struggles to maintain altitude once the fuel tanks are empty”

[Sick]

Commercial departments DO do that calculation, and for most operations, the cost of routinely carrying excess fuel for no good reason, exceeds the marginal cost of an occasional diversion .

[Silver68]

"the cost of routinely carrying excess fuel" translated means the additional fuel deemed necessary by the captain to conduct the flight safely and incorporates any additional factors that flight planning have omitted to do, such as busy arrival times at Doha, routinely being held at a lower flight level.... the list is endless.

Just because additional fuel is not utilised does not mean that it is a frivolous waste of company money. For me, it is good economic sense to plan for such events and prevent unnecessary diversions etc.

[FlyingOW]

Extra Fuel uplift at the end of the day is at the discretion of the commander, but a proper analysis of the weather, peculiarities of the route, and arrival time at destination among others should be considered.

I have found that all of these are already taken into account. On the days that I need extra, it usually has already been added by dispatch. And then there are those who uplift willy nilly to the detriment of the operation.

[Silver68]

As I said, extra fuel for anything that planning has omitted or unaware of for that matter...

[rocketfun]

They have insurance for the aeroplane hull and other liabilities in the event of an accident. Our job as pilots is to conduct the flight safely and that includes the 'fuel insurance' of having adequate fuel in the tanks when the plan doesn't go according the the expected plan.

[pfvspnf]

Why Nigerian lady pilot on IG have two bars ? What is the rank ?

[awair]

I have found that all of these are already taken into account.
Interesting.

[com304]

pfvspnf

1 - Second Officer
2 - First Officer
3 - Senior First Officer
4 - Captain

[immapostthis]

Well... since we had an excellent diversion on the forum discussing about fuel, let us take a step back into the realm of rumors, jobs, firing, hiring, salaries, etc.

Things that I have heard;

1. Most of the boeing guys contacted, have not returned to the airline yet and the communication between QA and the outside boring pilots have gone cold. Makes it seem that the airline was dipping their feet into the water just to see who they are able to get back when they require. Once again, QA doing some :mad: to someone...

2. Those who are called back ( Who QA has kept in contact with) have not or find it difficult to get RPs to enter Doha.

3. Is anyone aware if QA has pilots who are currently in Doha still fired?

4. Approval for the Flight Deck rehiring has been approved end of April, meaning that we should start to see an increase in rehiring

5. Rehiring will be on a experience based process, apparently NOT FLEET BASED... Which can make a tiny bit of sense, since the 330 guys for example were experienced but can now return even though the 330 is gone. But this will obviously create some issues within the pilot community. Knowing akbar airlines.... some stupidity will occur to anger most people.

6. Cabin crew - what ever is going on with them makes ZERO sense! The are firing and rehiring. This is because they are apparently desperate for them, but separations team did not get the memo (typical communication issues) so after getting fired, a few days/weeks they are getting called back, with a 'warning letter' to sign.... I have no idea why this letter exist but i can confirm it. Can anyone explain?

7. As always mentioned 777 NEED pilots! Cargo department are begging for cargo to be moved. They have the birds on ground, but no one to fly it.

8. 320 has been progressively restarting operations. My prediction is all those new flights to KSA, UAE, etc. which restarted this year ( where QA wanted to show that they could swing their big :mad: by sending their wide body planes [777, 787, 350] ) would be finally reconverted to 320 flights. European flights have officially gone back to 320.

9. 350 pilots are flying an unbelievable amount. Their rosters have been published late, because QA scheduling are struggling to keep planes in the sky. 350 pilots can expect to have an increase in hours from now! I can also confirm some older guys are leaving, because the work is getting way too much.

10. 380 still have not restarted, it was expect to by April, but delays delays... strangely enough emirates are bringing them back in heavy force and have been showing some sign of positivity. This does show some demand for travel in the world.

11. 787 Heard nothing really.

12. If there are any MPL pilots (non-qataris) can you please say something? Have anyone been called? Messaged? Emailed? Contacted? Also the if you are a CPL SO, if you say something it will be greatly appreciated!

13. India and their massive C19 problem is a significant problem for QA. India was a HUGE market for us! Airlines are expecting once things fix there the gulf carriers will be in a much better position, hence companies like QA would/will/have send/sent needed resources for them. For the Indians reading this, please get your :mad: together. not only for QA but their is a large number of deaths in the country and many suffering. It hurts my heart to hear/see this. I wish India and all countries in the would a speedy recovery. Let us get out of this pandemic!

13. The sheik just paid off the debts of many in qatar for the month of Ramadan! Very generous of him! But read the article a little more you will realize it is ONLY for qataris. Anyone living in qatar will expect this... my point being, expect that akbar himself got a few billion dollars injected into his airline as a Ramadan gift. Don't get this idea that QA is struggling for money...

14. QA currently needs pilot and CC. It is not the stories people on this forum said months ago, that QA will need crew... that time has passed, and now they NEED crew. They are massively understaffed! This is going to cause a negative feedback loop. (In a few months time, someone should quote this here for me)

With the currently lack of crew, and the significant demand, the only option for them is to overwork the current pilots and CC, this will result in the exhaustion of the current workforce they have; resulting the the frustration and 'loss' (leave) of those who they currently have. Making the gap between the 'availability of crew' to 'demand of crew' bigger resulting in more over worked and more leaving increasing the gap even more. ( Negative feedback loop)

What is going on in HR is they are walking on tip-toes. They are scared to hire more staff and then the demand doesn't present itself, then they will have an excess of crew. Hence they are just contacting some ex-staff and saying ' do you want to come back' At the same time, they know that if the demand does come they will need these people but they believe they can get back crew in a matter of weeks! Oh how they are mistaken!

It is Ramadan, let us see how good akbar and his loyal followers are. In such a kind and giving month, stop firing, start rehiring! it will be not only the better option for you, but for the airline as well...

Checking the forums, i have noticed that we have not been posting much. I do encourage every and anyone to post. Being in a pandemic, some may be without jobs and some may be in quarantine (both here in Doha and in other countries in the world) this forum may be a beacon of hope to people who read it! Anything you say here is safe and people do appreciate it! To all the Muslims here, Happy Ramadan and Eid!

[777kicker]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1668x1630/18ae3501_5e92_4485_981b_4ffaa9456245_abd0156254a288e66e0d7c2 5e21a1793db5f86ba.jpeg


This is a traffic forecast for a MAJOR EUROPEAN AIRPORT that before the pandemic used to be served with 3 daily flights, normally two 787 and one 777 in winter and two 777 and one 787 in summer.

Full recovery is not even envisaged for the next 5 years.

Check especially the load factors.

It can be either dreary, assuming the redaction is vaguely realistic, or simply ridiculous if what everyone else’s is saying is mildly accurate.

[QRAviator]

Non Qatari MPL here- No contact in any form for anyone. Sometime in February they fired rest of the 320 FOs who came out of the cadet programme going back as far as joining year-2017. The recent Qatari MPL programme advertised was just a huge kick in the gut and have no idea what to make of it. All the loans/mortgage for most of us has to be somehow repaid to banks and with no clear idea of what future looks like for anyone. Will never understand how did HR never think about the massive bonds tied with every single cadet which just got waived off upon separation.

When you say seniority wise recalling- is it in descending order? Most experienced first?

[Monkey Brains]

Sorry to say, there is different rules between Qatari and non Qatari.

Most people got kicked unfair, still idiots with warning letters flying around now..

[airbus350captain1]

I know two a350 captains who just left Qatar for being the first officer in the United States. They learned the lesson that Qatar's contract is just a piece of paper and they treat you as to how they treat constructors who are building the stadium. when they need you they give you all the money and respect. The Qatar mentality is they can buy anyone with money.I hope first-world countries should stop letting Qatar Airways keep flying to their countries.

[007busdriver]

immapostthis

Thank you for the detailed information.

[Python27]

...

https://mobile.twitter.com/ndtv/status/1389581320221720584

[DCS99]

Discipline?
I have no words that wouldn't get me banned for ranting.

[airbus350captain1]

lol, Indian education? He did exactly what Indian Airlines did to Expat airlines. He just needs more Qatari pilots to kick out more expat pilots.

[krismiler]

Reemploying based solely on experience wouldn’t make much sense, as the pilot group would be older and they would be facing a massive retirement bulge. Cherry picking from those in the sweet spot around 40 years old would give them a good experience level and a decent remaining number of working years.

[Ticker1]

Come on Krismiller nothing make sense in QR, they do the total opposite of the human been logic so lets do it this way; i agree with you the sweet spot will be 40 yrs old but lets think as QR management.

They will rehire 60 yrs old + exA350 to the 787 fleet,

ex777 Cp to the A350 fleet,

SO that started there training on 320 straight to 787

FO ready for command upgrade on 320 will go to the 777......

This looks more like QR logic to me. And the 40 yrs old guys will be the last ones.


If the world send a rocket to the moon throught the sky, Qr will try to find a way to go to the moon in a submarine through the ocean, the funny thing is they think that the rest of the world admires them for been so genius.

[airbus350captain1]

maybe the sweet spot will be 40 yrs old but do you think someone who is 40 and returning back to Doha, will he stay there for a long time? He will know that sometime in the future when he is over 55 years old, he might kick out of Qatar airways, hence he needs to make sure by 55 years old he has enough money to retire or fine an airline that respects the seniority list. This is the fact.

[007busdriver]

ticker1

hahahahaha sounds pretty qatari to me :} lolll

[TruckR]

QR 777 FO here, currently flying.

3. Is anyone aware if QA has pilots who are currently in Doha still fired?

Heard nothing for quite a few weeks now.


5. Rehiring will be on a experience based process, apparently NOT FLEET BASED... Which can make a tiny bit of sense, since the 330 guys for example were experienced but can now return even though the 330 is gone. But this will obviously create some issues within the pilot community. Knowing akbar airlines.... some stupidity will occur to anger most people.

Re-hiring process is shady as ****. When they have 330 guys fired, still sitting in Doha with RP, they are calling people from outside. The people coming back will need to go through the process of immigration and quarantine but still they don't call back the guys already in Doha. QR logic as it's best.


7. As always mentioned 777 NEED pilots! Cargo department are begging for cargo to be moved. They have the birds on ground, but no one to fly it.

Rumor is we're at lest 200 pilots short. Commercial is coming to fleet with new contract and fleet doesn't have the man power, so we can't accept the contract. (Rumor) Latest one were virgin Atlantic and Amazon out of china.


9. 350 pilots are flying an unbelievable amount. Their rosters have been published late, because QA scheduling are struggling to keep planes in the sky. 350 pilots can expect to have an increase in hours from now! I can also confirm some older guys are leaving, because the work is getting way too much.

350 is getting worse. But 777 is much worse than 350. 777 roster was published 3 days after the 350, which was way after the OMA/QCAA deadline. Roster changes started coming in with the roster. Today is 7th i had already more than 10 roster chnages.


.11. 787 Heard nothing really.

787 guys transfered to 777 around 80 of them. Some are already flying. They also transfered some 350 to 777 but training will take more time.


13. India and their massive C19 problem is a significant problem for QA.

Speaking with my colleagues in the cabin, numbers and situation is worse than what was reported in the news. An other problem, countries started to ban crew who's been in India to enter. This may create more issues for QR and India.


14. QA currently needs pilot and CC. It is not the stories people on this forum said months ago, that QA will need crew... that time has passed, and now they NEED crew. They are massively understaffed! This is going to cause a negative feedback loop. (In a few months time, someone should quote this here for me)

Negative loop is already there. When they just got 80 787 transfered, they have 60 777 people on notice period.


With the currently lack of crew, and the significant demand, the only option for them is to overwork the current pilots and CC, this will result in the exhaustion of the current workforce they have; resulting the the frustration and 'loss' (leave) of those who they currently have. Making the gap between the 'availability of crew' to 'demand of crew' bigger resulting in more over worked and more leaving increasing the gap even more. ( Negative feedback loop)

777 is already overworked to an unbelievable extend. Leaves of May and June cancelled for 30%.
Most people on 777 didn't get any leaves since last February. We had 1 or 2 forced leaves last year, after 3 days (minimum rest) they were calling us back to fly.
Remaining leave balance from 2020-21 has been payed (even if that's totally illegal in regard of HR policy and Qatar labour law).
If it wasn't for factoring many FO will be way above the maximum EASA flight limit. Should say limitS as in monthly, yearly both calendar and last 30/365 days.
Moral is low on 777, anger is very high.
Some people didn't see their family for more than a year now.
Wellness department (psychologists) are receiving more and more pilots. They tried to warn fleet. Fleet disregard those warning.
Only way now to get your leaves is to go see those shrinks and tell them that you cannot fly anymore. This may jeopardize your license but is the only wat right now.


What is going on in HR is they are walking on tip-toes.
HR is the biggest **** up in QR history, they should all burn in hell. Rumor is AB is very angry at them, curious to see what's gonna happen.
An other (confirmed) rumor which may also have implications, ministry of finance Ali Shareef al-Emadi (who's also QR chairman) is under arrest for suspected misuse of public funds and abuse of power. May have impact on QR ?

[Python27]

Compared with the target of this thread, it is.

Been in both, saw that... As I mentioned before, comparing the goat in most of its aspects with EK is like comparing EK to a decent Western company...

[Python27]

No, they're not. You can suppose from what people say, but you can't assume for what you haven't done or been.

[pfvspnf]

Any Ramadan bonus ?

[WrldWide]

Wrong thread

[White Knight]

nervous novice

Try reading what I actually posted! I was talking about the trainers themselves. Not the department.

Maybe we should leave the QR thread to the QR people; my apologies to them for the creep south:ok:

[QRA350]

Any rumors/ news for recalls on the A350 fleet ?

[mes4x]

I heard they are calling 320 guys back,don’t know for which fleet though.

[Python27]

as far as I heard, only the ones still in the cesspit with a valid RPs...

And of course, called for the PSA for now since the company is not sure if they're fit to work there...

[Monkey Brains]

hahaha what a joke of a company, Qatarization at its best

[fatbus]

The new catch 22!

[FlyingAce77]

Blackmailing at its best! “The world’s 5* Airline” Utter BS!

[Flapsupbedsdown]

Ahahahah....we need you back very soon, oh no, perhaps later in the year so in the mean time get the hell out of here fast or pay for accomodation,....but, if we call, get back immediately! WTF

[Monkey Brains]

So they just sent 330 guys back home after weeks waiting in doha

Make that months!

[airbus350captain1]

out of curiosity, Can flight crew exit Qatar for vacation or they have to stay in Qatar for the whole year?

[flyfor]

Arabs logic at its best.

[gpsprimary01]

Hi flyfor.
Indians are ruling the company and not the arabs :-)

[bonman]

Not simple Indians. Useless, clueless, not qualified and without any manners. They are destroying the country of Qatar (including QR), day by day

[Thatdude]

So , you basically generalized 1.3 billion people just based on the actions of a few ?
And If you aren't aware , most of the labour that the gulf gets is mostly from India , Pak , Bangladesh etc, . So basically Indians are building Qatar and not destroying it . Most Indians even have their businesses setup over here and you say that we are destroying it?
Now, I am not from the company but I do read these posts here to know what's happening in the industry .

There are " bad apples" everywhere ( be it any ethnicity , race , or religion ) , and generalizing everyone based on your interactions wiith a few people is racist and unacceptable.

[fatbus]

Popcorn time!

[Zakary]

Thatdude

it’s amazing how many times I read 3rd world, Indians, Arabs .... in this forum , yes I’m not level 6 and I don’t give a ### about it.
don’t like the 3rd world ? easy go to your 1st world and get a life, spare us the :mad:

[Klimax]

Geesus man. You running short of amphetamines' brother? perhaps NOW is a good time to get the no prescription chill pills and get a good night sleep eh.

[krismiler]

Temporary cancellation, endeavour to support and subject to operational requirements. Not the firmest of promises.

[flyfor]

Qatar Airways and the whole country is based on lies.
Do you remember last year when Al Baker promised that 25% pay cut will be to reduce firing.
"Inshallah", the firing increased instead.

For those who are still there, or are planning to return. Get as much as you can from that place, pay checks, licenses, type ratings and so on.
When globally :mad: gets back to normal, run away and show them the middle finger.

Remember one thing, QA doesn't give a flying :mad: about you or your family you are feeding.

Let them mix with their own cousins.

[Pistolpete47]

Klimax

Felt like it was a pretty measured response to some of the rasict rhetoric that goes on here.

[gpsprimary01]

Hi everyone,

Are they cancelling flight due to shortage of crew?

[gpsprimary01]

Thanks for your reply. I've heard it was a big customer like Alibaba and the other i'm not sure but it's DHL?

This situation make me laugh unfortunately.

[flyfor]

"Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves" - I know, I read it somewhere.

[Aviator64]

Are they planning to call MPL guys back any time soon ?

[mmorel]

I bet they can call MPL guys and ask them to work for free and they will accept it . P2F scheme

[warhammer]

Thatdude

yes, you and people like you are destroying the world... nobody likes people like "you"...

[immapostthis]

Ahhh the post after post.... rumor after rumor... ... the unnecessary EK guys, why you guys (if you are EK pilot) even here.... more importantly, what is real and what is not....

So much things to discuss, so much things to reply too....

QRAviator Thanks for the reply... I do hope you MPL cadets do return...honestly you tend to be the most sensible to bring back, in terms of training, loyalty and how long they can keep you... I do recall a letter going into CEO office mentioning the MPLs, but I do not know if anything is done or will be done with that letter.

QRAviator To answer your question; the GENERAL order was spoken around the offices to be most senior (in terms of seniority in the airline) coming back 1st. But clearly some rubbish is apparently going on. *will discuss further on*. Keep in contact with me and the forum and you should have some medium with all MPLs to communicate. I would be very interested in seeing how things with you all will unfold. Because as you rightly mentioned the qatari based MPL programme has been reinstated.

People above mentioned pilots are leaving (eg. on 350 fleet) I CANNOT STRESS HOW TRUE THIS IS! That is not a rumor any more! Pilots across ALL fleets are leaving. There are reliable research already showing the surge in demand for pilots predominantly in the US, with an increase in demand for them 2022-2025. Which was always predicted, anyone able to jump over to the US, grab a FAA license and go... I recommend to do so... More money in QA, yes...but no job security, no loyalty, and all the BS combined... not worth it... If you get a sense that i am trying to discourage people staying with ackbar ailines and encouraging people to leave... I am... their suffering is well deserved for what they have/are/will do people...

So wrt rehiring and the golden age of pilots to return being 40... yes... this is true... but understand that there are multiple factors in play here...

A pilot can be 40 with 5000 hours and another 35 with 5001 hours... who would you bring back? Age or hours?
One pilot could be staff number 88950 with 3000 hours and another with 104123 with 4000 hours... who would you bring back? Senior staff number or hours?
One pilot could be SN 1234 age 45 and another SN 12345 age 33...who would you bring back? senior staff or younger pilot?

To SOME extent; the younger pilots are better...more years to get out of them. But Older pilots are better, you get experience from them. Is airline seniority important? Flight experience in or outside the airline? Should they hire in the order the fired? The MPL cadets should have also had a contract that allowed them to be employed up to 1500 hours... is that a factor? Who really know... and the rumor was senior guys/gals back 1st... Now due to the gracious people on the forum we can see that there are some inexperienced guys coming back Taviator .... btw, much thanks for the message... appreciated

TruckR Your reply has been helpful not only to me but also to many who are reading here... thank you! What you have mentioned is true.. I can also confirm most of it or agree that those are rumors that i have been hearing myself.
777 is in the point if serious **** over worked, under pain, exhausted, annoyed... just to name a few... and you know what... expect it just to get worst and worst... but as mentioned....as soon as the opportunity arises Tuckr... LEAVE! believe me!
Yes, the numbers are approximately 200 bodies needed for the birds but at the current projects (simple maths models someone posted in this forum before) there was/is (pre pandemic and now post pandemic ) no way QA can supply the pilots for the demand. But they will forever act like everything is ok.... The best viable solution is to contract out the simulators and train/retain new/redundant crew outside of doha (with QA instructors) and then bring them back do a line skills test flight and then do regular operations... on a world wide scale this will also make them look VERY GOOD, i do not understand why they have not done this as yet....
Also look at the new 'opportunity' for 777 to give up their leave in June...


Fleet transferring makes no sense... you move guys INTO 777 but also move guys out of 777.... ummmm OK HR and training... if you need new staff with more common sense, please refer to PPrune...

QRA350 "Any rumors/ news for recalls on the A350 fleet ?" Great question.... can anyone update us on this? 350 is QA pride and they've flown it throughout the pandemic to prove to the world that they can fly their best plane everywhere. How emirates has the 380, we at QR have the 350... little child's mentality.... but now that the airbus fuel subsidy has ran out...what is the plan now? I have not really heard/read news on 350 being rehired... are 320s upgrading to the 350 currently? Or with QA logic...is 787 transferring to 350? Looking forward for replies...

SandPilot350 Look at the **** this company does... everyone who became redundant should read this letter and have a disgust for ackbar and his bunch of lackies... I will believe there are redundant pilots here in this forum. When you got RUD and ackbar wanted to prove that he was the most humane airline ever what did he say/do? (If anyone has the interview where he spoke about this please post it!) Didnt he say all fired staff will eventually come back or get the opportunity to come back? When you got your letters, didnt they say that you will be in a pool and you will get the opportunity to return and fly when demand arises again? That wasn't written... that wasnt a contract (not like contracts matter in this company ) that was signed by the airline and the fired indivudals.... was just ackbar's word of mouth pushing some PR BS? because now there is a letter telling certain pilots that they are on the short list to return... so all the other people fired are not on a list? Do you see why this airline gets very suspicious? Do you see how they say one thing and another happens... I read that letter and all i could think is the guys who are out there that got fired, the hopes/promises that was given to them must just be shattered.... the consequences for the airline for doing that will be.... as always :mad: all...

Another point to mention about the letter.... Due to training availability and resources the rejoining date will be delayed... wtf.... negative feedback loop... 777 training problem again?

Can anyone confirm that all pilots who are in qatar airways either going home for RED/fired or flying for the airline? Or are there still guys waiting in doha for more news? Because as
Monkey Brains mentioned... it has been MONTHS these poor souls waited!

Thatdude created an account just to make his post guys... No disrespect intended, what the guys said above you (above Thatdude) is a inappropriate... The reality is Indians are the majority of the workers here ( admin, HR, Econ, etc) and as a result I am assuming they (they guys who spoke about your people) have no one else to blame... this is my assumption, i am not defending, intending to insult or criticizing anyone.... BUT guys.. yes... this is a free speech forum, but let's be considerate to one another... let's not get offended by things said aswell.... we are a bit better than that... we dont need to discriminate.... let us instead talk **** about akbar and his airline =)

flyfor
Qatar Airways and the whole country is based on lies.
Do you remember last year when Al Baker promised that 25% pay cut will be to reduce firing.
"Inshallah", the firing increased instead.

Oh how I understand you.... Such BS....Believe me... this is the typical BS that the airline does.... but yes... i do remember and hated it!

gpsprimary01 Thanks for your reply. I've heard it was a big customer like Alibaba and the other i'm not sure but it's DHL? This situation make me laugh unfortunately.

Yes they have contracts for moving cargo with Alibaba and Aliexpress but are unable to fulfil because of the 777 delima.... What i have noticed though... most of the China cargo is mainly 747... can someone confirm or deny this?

Aviator64 Are they planning to call MPL guys back any time soon ?

Million dollar question. Honestly this is the most interesting thing in terms of rehiring. i am curious how the airline would (or even if ) do this.... The mistake in the 1st place was firing the MPL. No offence to the senior guys out there who i can confirm are A class quality pilots/ trainers/ captains/ FO, but the MPL program is superior to the CPL (exception of qatari MPL). In this message and above there is also another MPL pilot, you all should get in contact with each other and see how things are going.
Have you heard any rumors? Because I have...not popular or reliable ones though....

As mmorel mentioned....hey can call MPLs back to P2F, but it is highly unlikely...

Let's see what will go on now that Eid is over...

[TruckR]

immapostthis That's the plan. As soon as I can find a job, in aviation or not, I am getting the fudge out.
Speaking with a lot's of my colleague, they will do the same. We can't wait for opportunity to arise, and waive the goat fudger goodby.
gpsprimary01 Yes, we have 777 on the ground due to a lack of crew.
I heard the same rumors as previously mentioned. We missed two cargo contracts because of crew shortage. AB must have been thrilled by that...

On other note:
- I had a look at the A350 roster. It is now as bad as 777.
- The non sense keeps on going.
30% of the FO got their leave cancelled in May and June. For the FO they didn't even bother asking. They just choose people.
Among the remaining 70% some of us didn't want our leaves anymore. Most of the time due to restriction in our home countries.
We emailed the office, telling them we don't want to go because we can't go home so you can have our leave back. It was refused
So we found guys willing to swap with us. We went to the office together and told them :
I don't want my leave because I can't go back home, this guys wants to go, he hasn't seen his family for over a year now. Can he take my leave slots ?
Well guess what ? It was refused... How to make people happy 101...

To the Indians bashers, I understand why you do that. They are the most visible community here. So when something get on your nerves they are an easy target.
As much as it pains me to recognize it, I am the same.
But don't forget that in Qatar Airways they mostly have minion's job.
High management (the guys taking the decision to screw you over), at least in flight ops, is mostly from Europe and North Africa.
Indians have no part in this. Even if the secretary telling you 'not allowed captain' is from there, it's not her decision, it's the decision of your fellow compatriots... Sad no ?

[flyfor]

High management (the guys taking the decision to screw you over), at least in flight ops, is mostly from Europe and North Africa.

You mean Italians and Algerians.

[Silver68]

Divide et impera

[Thatdude]

immapostthis,TruckR Yes I did create an account to make that post because I felt that it is an issue that needed to be addressed after looking at some of the racist comments that have been posted here . Yes , I agree that Indians are the majority workers there and I can see that the airline has a lot of issues and is a mess right now but that does not mean that we have to resort to racism to deal with it. EVEN if they are a majority in the region. Thank you for addressing the issue 👍

[krismiler]

So wrt rehiring and the golden age of pilots to return being 40... yes... this is true... but understand that there are multiple factors in play here...

Agreed, the 40 year olds have a decent experience level and 20-25 years of flying left in them. Whilst the under 30s are able to move back to jobs in their own countries and start at the bottom of the seniority list, someone 40+ especially with a family, will be locked into the airline and it will be much harder for them to start over if they leave.

50+ would be mainly trainers, examiners or managers.

[FlyingAce77]

Cabin Crew redundancies have started again. F1s this time, mostly the ones that never went back since March 2020, All this is happening when QR is bring back CC that were on SIDL when borders were closed in March 2020.

[mmorel]

Hello,

does anyone know if we can extend validity of carry forward id 90 ticket ? I emailed staff ticket agency but they do not responde to my email.

my last day of work is in July , if I buy a ticket now can i use it after july?

I bought several ticket before I left the company and due to corona situation I could not use them.

[WrldWide]

Better to get them refunded.

[mmorel]

It's not refundable since i left the company.

[planoramix]

I was made redundant June 28 and on that day I issued my 12 ID tickets + annuals for myself and family. We have remained in Doha as, luckily, my wife has a good job but were up to now unable to use the tickets.
In October QR issued the new policy allowing redundant pilots to issue their allowance tickets for one year after termination, with six month validity. For that reason Staff travel is giving tolerance on the expiry date of tickets issued before said policy.
Went to Staff Travel last month and was informed that tolerance exists and bookings after expiry date can be made in person at the office or by phone (tried a few times with no success in getting the line, they are always busy).

[Monkey Brains]

mmorel

what I understand like normal ID90 it has a 6 month or 1 year validity since date of booking.

[airbus350captain1]

Thanks, Planoramix, is there any way to ask them to reissue them with 6 months validity. My question is basically if you were made redundant on June 28 then can we reissue those tickets to be used 6 months after June 28th, 2021? As you mentioned it's really hard to call them as they are always busy. I wish we could use Rahal to change dates and reissue them.

[Python27]

The nodding staff are careless even when you work for admiral ackbar, imagine after your services are not needed anymore...

[Papa_Golf]

Did anyone succeed in getting QR to provide employer references? I’ve been trying for days but they keep bouncing my request between FCSS and HR.

[mmorel]

There was a mistake in mu title as well and i email them three months ago and they haven't reply back. They told mw to
contact different department and that department does not responde. They don't really care about helping us to get right documents. We really need to complain about them to news so they know the true picture of qatar airways

[gpsprimary01]

Hi everyone. As far as I know they don’t issue reference letter for former staff.

ive asked senior fleet manager and that’s his answer.

they can issue a recommandation letter but without Qatar airways stamp and manager position ( as a colleague) .

[Papa_Golf]

Yet upon joining their circus they requested all sort of crap.

[Monkey Brains]

Did anyone succeed in getting QR to provide employer references? I’ve been trying for days but they keep bouncing my request between FCSS and HR.

Apparently your new company needs to contact [email protected] so they can keep a track on who gets a new job or so..

[airbus350captain1]

I email them twice on [email protected] and no one responded back to me. It's really disrespectful that you work for a company over 9 years and they don't even bother to reply back to your email.

[Monkey Brains]

No problem Captain ..

the arrogance will bite them sooner then later and it will be sweet revenge for lots of former and current employees.

[Papa_Golf]

HR just forwarded my emails to some other dept who never came back to me.

They were a useless bunch when I was in Dohell and they got even worse now.

Redundancy from QR was a blessing!

[gpsprimary01]

I really think it's a loss of time to contact them and I'm sure they joke about us when We are asking them a document.
The only documents I got from them are : a service letter and a incident free letter.

And trust me, it took 3 months to get them, even I never ever had any issue or report within this company.

I hope guys that we will all have an opportunity to work somewhere else and never go back to Dohell.
I was living there 4 years and I don't even miss the city a little bit.
Like said PAPA_GOLF, it's a blessing to be released from QR and leave the country heathy and with the family.

Thanks guy for the update and the rumors.

Bless you all

[mes4x]

Apparently some 330 guys got the email for rejoining today.
All of them are outside Doha.

[planoramix]

No chance on the phone for the last three days. Went to Staff Travel this morning 7:15, was #4 in line.
My wife ID90 issued last June 28 with expiry date June 28 2021 was amended for outbound flight in July and return in August.
No question asked.
Staff travel, of all offices, has always been the most helpful.
They will gladly amend your ticket also by phone ...... good luck 😉

[mmorel]

Thanks Planoramix. Do I have to call them before expiry date of the ticket ? I still don't know when I can travel and do you know of by any chances I can change the flight destination? for example from Lax-DOH to DOH- Seattle ?

[Flying_carpet]

More 350’s guys got an email asking them to visit the boeing office to sign a training bond for their forced fleet transfer to the triple... 😜 17 years in the airline...

Roster on both fleet are the hell. 350’s flying average 130hrs per month for FOs, slightly less for capt but this was before all the transfers. A little voice says 60 transfers planned. Cannot be true or they are shooting in their own feet. Oh but wait, standard QR!! So yep, seems possible with a such high and smart anticipation/planning. Why not!! The upcoming weeks will be interesting especially when 3 new toys are coming from Toulouse this month. So transferring super senior Airbus guys to the 777; probably calling back 787 guys to rejoin on the 350; 320 guy to the 787... seems plausible indeed! Musical chairs.

Some unlucky former colleagues who are still in Doha with the PSA done 3 months ago are still waiting for ANY kind of news......

So. Are you really willing to work for these monkeys?? People are heavily running away from the goat, even with no job behind. Fatigue is extreme, exhaustion is reached and mental health is becoming a real issue with the family apart (the borders are still closed to non-residents). More leave are expected to be taken away from deck crew during the roasted months in lovely dohell.

Brace for impact.

[airbus350captain1]

Why do they have a surplus flight crew on A350? they received three new A350 airplanes and they already sacked a lot of A350 pilots last year.

[Koan]

The nodding staff are careless even when you work for admiral ackbar, imagine after your services are not needed anymore...
The Admiral is doing such a great job he has been elevated to Oneworld board chairman

https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-ceo-oneworld-chairman/

[mmorel]

Reality is no one care about staff... people keep saying qatar has better services but it's because they also like to be served by slaves.
Even AA, Delta and United airline are changing their mind set about Qatar . It's sad to see-how people think about Qatar.

[Flying_carpet]

airbus350captain1

They are not. A quick calculation: according to the latest official numbers we’ve got (if they are true.......); there are an average of 8.1 skippers per 350 VS 11.3 per 777. The operations are slightly different but it is a huge difference. In other words, they try to urgently cool down the situation on the Boeing by creating an uncontrollable backfire on the Airbus.

People are protesting and not happy at all by this situation of being forced to be transferred (even more when it’s the most senior guys in the company near the retirement!) but the reply given is “take it or leave”.

Five stars management as always in this part of the World. As somebody already said, by doing that, they think they are acting like genius and get respect from everybody...

popcorn time

[edi_local]

mmorel

What do you mean by changing thier mindset? We're they not always critical of QR? Are they now not so critical?

[flyhigh787]

planoramix

Are there plans from the airline to call you back if demand picks up?

[Monkey Brains]

How does he know?

[gpsprimary01]

Seems like an official statement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xszgfTJbmk4

[007busdriver]

Apparently

[captain.weird]

Nothing on their website tho

[Lepo]

QR is not doing external recruitment yet. They are just calling back some of the pilots who were terminated over the last year.

[gpsprimary01]

They are calling back redundant crew, not terminated.
It's a different status on their HR files.

But I wonder how they proceed, is it by seniority or randomly?

[DirtyPorkAgain]

is this some weird BS PR again where they try to make the company look really good from the outside? Coz I know a lot of crew are still stranded outside of their countries with no updates 🤣

[mes4x]

Can anyone confirm that captains that are called back are receiving a salary of QR24400 + usual benefits?
This is new joiners pay minus 25% on a permanent base which basically will create a company within the compan and a lot of frustration.

[jacekgfly]

As mentioned in the video, prioritizing crew with good performance/record. What ever that means? So if you have some history (letters) in the company, you are no longer welcome? Let's wait and see...

[Silver68]

mes4x

Quite correct. I think the general consensus is revalidate and get current..... and wait for the market to open up. The salary isn't worth the effort. The only reason you come to the ME is to earn a better salary than at home. With this pay reduction, that is no longer the case.

[casablanca]

mes4x

I enjoyed my almost 8 years in Qatar, but ultimately decided the money we were saving didn't justify being so far from home.....and my basic was 43 when I left..... For those without income and a family to feed any job is a blessing and to be appreciated-but 24,400 as a captain is pretty pathetic especially in an expensive country like Qatar.

[felixthecat]

mes4x

So you will have long time high seniority returners ( who left through no fault of their own) earning less than people who joined 18 months ago who were lucky to have remained through the pandemic? Have the ones who stayed though the pandemic also dropped 25% ?

[FlyingAce77]

Logic doesn’t work in this country” or in the sandpit! This is all going to bite QR pretty soon.

[Silver68]

Agreed. All returning pilots have no bond and only seven days notice is required for six months after line check.

[jacekgfly]

Returning A330 will have some kind of a bond for sure.

[bananaman2]

yep it’s the standard 3 year bond - I know a couple of guys. However most of these guys have no/minimal Boeing experience. They figure they’ll need minimum 1,000 - 2,000hrs PIC on Type to make themselves marketable… that and by the time the market picks up, it will be a couple of years before they can do anything… at which point if they want to pay the Bond off, it won’t be too much.

90% of the Rejoiners so far are already Boeing Rated… so no Bond.

[Saulman]

Out of curiosity when would QR need to look to start hiring externally again? I’ve seen comments here and from the boss. I was one day away from handing in my notice they canned me.

[Python27]

You don't sound stupid, no worries. And yeah, naiveness and stup***ty are forgivable.

[flyfor]

I am sure that the lateral head shakers will accept the new contract. "Too much good, too much good"

[Newcomer2]

alphadelta1

Why would you ask for a lower salary when you can ask for no salary at all?
There you go my friends, there will always be a :mad: asking to do your job for cheaper. And after a while they're the first ones to complain about the conditions going down.
I definitely have no more faith in the pilot community...

[gpsprimary01]

THanks a lot Sanpilot 350 for you clarification.

Is the salary lower if you have a new staff number or same as before Covid?
I can't believe they will have 2 salary scheme for the same job.

[Fired600]

AD1`, your obviously young and unfortunately naieve. Do you not see where this leads? So you want just enough for some small savings, the next lamb wants just enough to cover the loan from his training, the next just the hours to progress up the ladder to the next job. What is the next step up the ladder when it is this far down? You degrade our profession and ruin your own future. I understand your basis for your statement but you have to also see what you do to the profession and your fellow pilots and your future.
Do you really want to be a bargain basement pilot?

[Taviator]

New staff number means new salary.

[Newcomer2]

alphadelta1

My oh my 🤦‍♂️
You didn't even catch the irony of my comment regarding the salary (I thought it was pretty obvious but apparently not for everyone).

So, IRONIC MODE ON: you shouldn't ask for a salary because hey, let's face it, the company would do you a big favour by hiring you. First of all with just a CPL you know pretty much nothing and you will be a burden to the captain. Plus imagine all the flight hours you would log on those big shinny jets, with that experience after a few years you would finally be able to apply to an airline that gives you just enough to live as you say. Oh no wait, by then these airlines wouldn't exist anymore because of all the morrons offering to work for next to nothing. The decent airlines would not pay their pilots because they have to compete with worse airlines making their pilots pay to have the privilege to sit in their cockpit (it's called pay to fly, and it already exists). After all who cares if you don't get paid, being a pilot is still pretty cool. Imagine all the pictures you could post on instagram to impress everyone, imagine how you would look in their nice uniform, all the young and hot flight attendants will fall for you for sure!

IRONIC MODE OFF: people like you degrade the conditions for everyone, and then come and complain that the job is not what it used to be without even realizing they are the ones at the heart of the problem, shooting themselves in the foot.
We don't pay 150k just to have enough to live as you say. This is a career. If you want to have just enough to live go work for McDonald's. You are an embarrasment to the profession.

[wisedude]

Very well said, because of these people some companies abuse pilots with pathetic working conditions and contracts

[FlyingAce77]

Lets be honest, Young Flight attendants would fall for a 60yr old A380 Captain too 😉

[Xulu]

It's not this guys fault for lowering conditions. The fact is, supply is vastly inflated from the kids willing to drop $150k on a CPL in the middle of a pandemic, egged on by flight schools whispering about industry growth forecasts; selling the dream.

And after you've dropped that $150k and realised you were sold a lie - sure, you'd be willing to work for less to get your foot on the ladder to rescue some of your investment over the long-term. That's understandable.

The solution isn't to flog these kids for daring to ask, it's to have training be matched to a job beforehand to ensure that Supply = Demand.

Unfortunately, both airlines and flight schools don't want that; There is no benefit at all for them. It'll take decades of the profession being viewed as a :mad: & embarrassing job to stop that influx of wannabes.

Garbage collection is a surprisingly well paid job because of the negative stigma attached. Being a pilot will become an ever more poorly paid job because of the perceived glamour and positive stigma enjoyed in most parts of the World.

Just as Cabin Crew, you will always have the romantic side of travel luring kids to take a gamble on the profession. Who needs a salary when you have Instagram followers? Or when Daddy is a rich veteran expat in Doha.

[Ticker1]

Newcomer2

Lol! what else can i say, nothing more i guess.

[immapostthis]

Whenever i see SandPilot350 post something... i always say 'this going to be good to read,' you are a true blessing to this forum. Well done with the passing of information. I actually came on to describe the letters that were distributing. To those who would want this cleared up;

NEW SALARY & STAFF NUMBERS to those who ALREADY obtained FINAL SETTLEMENT and left the country already. From what I gathered, this will include the guys who were recently sent home (31st May) but are able to keep their RP's. This does not mean lower salaries that those who are currently flying. eg. When you start the airline as a FO let's say you get 23000qar, and you spent X number of years whereby you got your yearly increase that brought you up to 30000qar a month... but you got redundant and finished your finial settlements then..yes... now you come back as staff number 109000 and restart at a pay of 23000qar. It would be like you rejoined the airline like new.

Those who are looking to come back to QA... keep looking else where...do not wait for their call...and if they do and you have a job...dont be tempted by the money... trust me...

If i remember, in the past...you had a specific time limit whereby you can come back and maintain your position in the company, but seems like they may have gotten rid of that amid the pandemic...

JUst some updates...(please comment on if you heard these, can confirm, can deny);

*all fleets bleeding crew
*all fleets overworked
*787,777,320 pilots have been reinstated both from outside QR and who were still inside (350 hires)
*everyone who had been fired have left by now
*rehiring is a SLOW process, it seems that it was mainly for PR, because office staff can tell you... loads and possibilities do not seems to be improving. PR because as you have seen AB recently had a interview with simple flying and he got to talk about how generous his airline is because they are rehiring
*US market is killing it! doing well! EU i am hoping will pick up heavily by summer domestically and sep to dec internationally.
*order on planes are coming.... apparently there are issues currently with AB and Airbus with some plane... a defect/problem he is keeping quiet... but i believe it is the 320 neos and their fuel burn... they way airbus lied to them about the 350...
* 350 are coming in as fast as possible.... honestly i believe this is to not allow EK to gain any 350's... that will be a hard hit for QA as it will leach pilots from QR and trust me...people will leave to go... but with airlines in the world giving up 350s we can expect QA to buy more than anticipated and claim they love the aircraft for fuel efficiency or some BS, but we all that it is because of EK
*320 neos... 50 on order...with LR arriving no XLR... where are they..who knows?


to talk about the elephant in the room.... alphadelta1 .... I am sorry, but i do not expect QA to take new pilots now... they currently need to take redundant...then pool...then their qatari MPL, non qatar MPL, SO on CPL and prob only then consider new hires.... I feel bad for you new pilots because as someone said.. the schools sell a dream that there is a need for bodies in the industry.. but the reality is, it is experience pilots... not out of school pilots... what the schools dont tell you...out of school you need to get experience then youll be in demand...

But guys and gals we dont need to be sooo hard on him. He is looking for information, at a point in time we all were in the same boat and we would have loved to have experience guys talk to us.. not to give us :mad: for not knowing... where is your CRM? dont bring that old fashion captain rubbish guys... we are all better than that... from everyone in this forum... I am sorry we didnt handle your question better....

AD, the market now is terrible.... you like many others will love to fly, but things are a bit unpredictable right now... but keep with it... stay away from those P2F programs, rather do some single engine stuff, instructing, etc.. build from there... the flight school still selling this we need pilot dream...so they will hire instructors as amazing as it will be... your 1st job wont be with an airline...especially as big as QA... unless you are MPL...which is something i still do not recommend... to the MPLs...excellent program (no offence, but better than CPL pilots) but you are in a terrible situation NOW.

good luck out there everyone... keep the post coming...

[QRA350]

Hey Guys so I have been asking for a while on here if there has been any word on 350 rehire, I have received reliable info that there is no intention to rehire 350 Capts that were let go, nothing on 350 FO’s at this stage.

[mes4x]

Taviator

I want to know who is the brains behind this b/t because it looks to me like HR **** sorry scenario,that was signed some time ago and now they can’t stop it because there is no procedure.
Same with the redundancies on autopilot even after the blockade resolution and the vaccination campaign.

[flyfor]

If no bond is placed on rehired, redundant pilot, how many days have to laps from the final line check, before we can handle the resignation letter to QA?
I guess with the money they offer, no health insurance (aka Al Koot) and low morale, it only makes sense to return to QA just to refresh you type rating and the medical on company's expense.
Then just show them the middle finger and run.

[007busdriver]

OMG remembered those days..

[tundrapilot]

it is good that those photos above are posted. People have to know what QR is and how it treated pilots who used to fly safely hundreds of thousands of people.
Pilots should not consider rejoining this dreary place unless they have no other option at home or anywhere else
they treat you like an airplane part and not as a pilot. I was lucky to find a place to work back home and left on my own after being a year away from my country.
Guys who are still there get encouraged to leave from that company who only knows to humiliate their most valuable assets. the people who get the maximum stress to fly those airplanes under the strictest management that possibly exists on planet earth.
QROC advertisments. "do not hesitate to go around for any reason". then you go around - you are screwed hahaha. Insane, just wrote a basic example. Attrition before COVID was about 300 pilots a year ! that is not normal
half of them would leave on their own and half would get terminated. The whole place used to suck even before. Rosters are a piece of.. s.... unless you are desperate... rosters that a normal human being cannot handle because of fatigue. Then you report fatigue .... oh sir please come to the office to explain us.. hahahahahahahaaha

Congratulations to sandpilot350 for posting the above photos

[lfbb]

Lesson to be learned, mobile phones should be prohibited inside QR facilities during separation process... problem solved.

[Python27]

The separation process was so messy and subcontinental that you're mixing up the things... This is the rejoining process btw🤣

[Skyfl410]

yeah....they need to hide everything under the carpet. typical QR

[gpsprimary01]

Hi Guys,

I can't believe what I'm reading right now about the salary discrepancies between FDC. What to say, it's a shame. They just fired to rehire. Now, it's obvious they planned it this way to balance their annual "budget".
I hope the pilots will revenge and resign massively during this world cup. Hopefully during layover

[Silver68]

Yep, flying FOs who earn more than I do. This is short term for me. I, like many others, have no intention of staying long term. As soon as a job becomes available we're off.

[007busdriver]

Considering lateral head shakers' mentality they might bring the salaries back to normal (prepandemic levels) when markets go back to normal and expect people forget the past and stay there.. :)

[fatbus]

Out of curiosity, when do you think that will be ?

[Python27]

In fact, people will treat the salaries back as a huge improvement of "our dearest and wise boss" ....

[flyfor]

It so interesting to see most, if not all Facebook groups linked to Qatar Airways are quiet lately.
Everybody is so scared to make any comments.
Arabs, you must be proud of yourself for spreading this fear factor.
But remember, when the music stops playing, you will have to park your Land Cruisers and hose off your camels to visit cousins.

To all foreigners in Qatar. Right now we all have to face difficult time, but the Middle East has nothing to offer anymore.
The flying will open again and we all will find jobs where we will be treated with dignity and respect.

Don't expect much from the nation where to enforce the traffic rules, they have to install the speed bumps.

[Monkey Brains]

Useless email, they don’t want 320 to 777 anyway otherwise they would have done it already.

Just a fake show of “we care about you guys” preference..

[Lateralshaker]

Good point about the fleet transfer from 320->777..
but who in right mind would even consider that kind
of change. If you want to kill yourself believe me there
is easier option available.

From the donkey show, tons of emails about fleet transfers and grounding 350’s without any reason effecting airplane to fly but as we know this is normal for the airline who believes it should be painted with halal paint . Anyways : Anyone who knows what happened to our golden days? as haven’t seen them lately? Everyone knows about the salary crap ongoing plus triple guys got paid all their holidays as productive from the basic holidays in this company should be worth 5 or 10times of the money.. no one in their right mind would never accept pro-rated from the monthly basic..

fleet transfers : wtf no one in this world is that stupid to move to triple with the current situation.. flying 120-140hrs a month is not legal anywhere except doha as the QA = QCAA .. EASA compliant is the biggest joke in history of aviation when company itself can modify the rules as they wish

and the new rules .. new acn doesn’t apply for all nationalities as our Instagram pilots continue to show off just a note for you guys.. it’s a airplane and a job! No one give a :mad: about your circus around but remember while drinking abroad you should keep your pants on while visiting the malls is doha! Welcome to Stone Age.

[Flyingmexicansaucer]

Any idea of numbers for transfer to 777,787, Why not 350?

[007busdriver]

Apparently they're focused on Boeing fleet recently. We might see some movements on Airbus by the new year.

[007busdriver]

Which fleet they received DOJ for? Baker once said 380s are waste of money

[jacekgfly]

A380 waste of money = True

But you take the 380 pilots give them a TR/CCQ on a different fleet and sign a new 3 years bond. QR style.

Don't know how true the 380 pilot return is but lets wait and see.

[mes4x]

Hi ,380 and 330 guys outside Doha ,were asked if they could join directly in the US .
Most likely the man power missplanning team together with the geniuses in the untraining department booked slots without observing travel and quarantine requirements.
Believe it or not they offer the new pay scheme and luckily the response they get is the gentle middle finger.

[QRA350]

Which fleet are they being called for, 777 ?

[airbus350captain1]

Mes4x:

How do they join in the USA? They need Qatari TRE and they also need to do medical first.

[mes4x]

All of them have a valid medical and as for the TRE part don’t forget that it is 45 days down the road.

[airbus350captain1]

So I guest those A380, A330 pilots are not the ones who got terminated last year otherwise their Qatari Medical has been expired by now.

[Dumbass863]

Now that almost 80% of the total population of Qatar is vaccinated including a vast majority of the crew, they’ve just came up with a brand new shiny memo saying that all crew have to stay in the hotel promises in every single layover “due to a MOPH note” and cannot go out. Freedom is taken out once more without any explanation and rational reason.

So, most of us took the vaccine in order to get back to a kind of freedom and please them. We can go back home and come back without any issue (excepting providing a PCR) but in layover... NO! I can stay one month in the States if I want but I cannot leave my hotel when I have 3 days off in PHL! 🙈

Some hotels seem to have been contacted and asked to monitor and report the crew........ and some CSD would have been requested to spend time in the lobby watching...

Living the dream in a fairy tale!

[Lateralshaker]

Monitoring by the crew or hotel staff…freedom

you only need to check in our Instagram “pilots”pages and you will see how much locals are respecting our latest acn but they are untouchable anyway like in doha they are untouchable disregarding what ever they do

If you can’t go out in outstation so how come we are able to do it in Doha where the numbers been higher than pretty much in any European country.

Btw. The grooming monkey is back

[Lucifer786]

Heard QR considering recruiting 787/777 skippers from the outside ?!
Not my opinion. Just what I heard

[CDRW]

Back to being locked up in the crew hotel! Along with spies to report on any infringements! Bog standard QR methods of management!

Returning crew who are needy for a job, and who comeback 25% worse off. Please use QR as a stop gap. Get what you need out of them and go when things pick up. And if you need to leave with only a months notice - dont tell them. Just walk away. You wont be owed anything financially!

[Monkey Brains]

Lucifer786

they will use the ex 330/380 guys first and internal transfers from 320 so then the ex 320 guys can come back as well.

expect more movement from 350 to 777 with the grounding as well..

[Tired_Dazed]

Everybody knows the company does not care about pilots or any employee, but one has to wonder how big a hole they can dig themselves?

On line its very clear that morale is through the floor across the board.

TREs are saying that guys are showing up to LPCs and just shrugging their way through.

Most FOs you speak to will tell you they have zero incentive past earning a crust to be here. No hope of an upgrade even to SFO and any left seat vacancy in the next 2 years will most certainly be filled by DECs. A lot of FOs I speak to are actively looking for an out. If things pick up elsewhere there is a real danger of blue on blue culture prevailing.

I was in Training for 3 years before the pandemic and some of the absolute clowns I saw come in would frighten you. Some days you'd be looking at a DEC in training and asking to see his documents again just to be sure. Yet when the axe came last year the good guys were tossed and the idiots stayed. HR basically took anybody who applied from certain regions to fill left seat vacancies and CV maneuvers were common.

The issue of guys not returning is chronic now and the big fear in the office amongst those with a "stable head" is that new recruitment in the future may be negatively impacted by the anecdotal stories told.

I came here 12 years ago. Had a family here, but dear god I cannot wait to be out of this circus.

[desert_dog]

Very well said. I couldn't have written it better. Me as FO I can confirm everything you said. I was worried about my job at the beginning of the pandemic. Now? Now I don't care anymore and if I get fired I'll be glad someone made the decision for me. I'm incredibly tired, I'm just surviving on flights from lack of rest. Sometimes I'm so tired I'd rather just do paperwork and have no interest in flying. Constant fluster from poor communication and bad decisions by our management. I do the bare minimum just to make the flight safe and not have to explain anything in the office and the rest I don't really, really care. Now I look at my roster I just want to cry. A roster that is only legal in Qatar, according to EASA or FAA my license should have been suspended a long time ago. No chance to be home, see my folks and do perfectly normal things. I'm just flying, fighting fatigue, locked in a hotel room with no way to get out and eating economy food from plastic boxes. The Company has become a company for people who have to be here, not for people who want to be here. Sooner or later only people from problematic countries will stay here, for whom Qatar is unfortunately a better place to live. The rest will escape. You can see it in the cabin crew. All crews from developing countries, mostly from the Philippines, India and Thailand. Nothing against them, but this company is unable to offer anything other than tax free money. The only future here is be a baby sitter for the DEC. No thank you.

[Silver68]

The only future here is be a baby sitter for the DEC. No thank you.

Don't forget, one day soon it will be you (as a captain), that will join a new airline. All DECs need time to adjust, just as all DFOs need time two.

[Silver68]

Rug

Amazing, why is it that these posts are always written by someone who is new to pprune. The trouble with this statement is you fail to appreciate that pilot attrition is quite high as well as the fact that not everyone wants to come back on such a poor salary. FO on old contract earns more than a re-hired captain. Most people appear to be returning out of necessity rather than choice. Most I talk to are looking for the next job on a daily basis. Once the industry picks up (and it will), Qatar will be in deep :mad:

[Tired_Dazed]

While what you are saying is of course true I think that is not the point he makes. I fly both of the Boeing types and a lot of FOs I fly with especially on the 787 say similar. Obviously we all take time to adjust to something new but the quality of some new hires on Boeing is well below the required standard especially given the weight of responsibility the OMA places on Captains with the narrow constraints put on FOs.
Short and rushed training courses coupled with the fact there is no requirement for wide body time do not help either.

Bottom line on this issue(and its a big issue the company ignores) is that talented FOs have left and will most certainly leave in the future due to a ridiculous lack of advancement opportunities. Currently they won't even give a guy his 3rd stripe when he earns it.
Training have been telling management for a while that soon DECs will be "unrosterable" under blue line restrictions. This is due to a lack of SFOs to as said above to "babysit".

[Huw Jorgan]

Let go from 777 Capt in Dec, still waiting.

[Monkey Brains]

Rug

dont know if it’s true but all eligible Boeing pilots already called back,

Some ex 330/380 guys already back from outside and others have been contacted.

ex 320 only taken back from inside the country so far.