Qatar salary reductions and redundancies 😬

[Flying Clog]

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. It's terrible, but happening all the time. Emirates has had many suicides, both cabin and flight deck. Emirates has blood on their hands, and so has Qatar.

Shame on them.

[Pauleg120]

Are the redundancies still happening?

[Skyfl410]

I’ve heard that a Captain committed suicide because of his termination, hopefully it’s only a rumor, can anyone confirm please ?
Unfortunately seems to be true. 777 Cpt from New Zealand. This is what a friend told me.

[captain.weird]

How is the crewing actually currently? Short of pilots, or anything nearby this? A lot of guys have been called back.

[desert_dog]

Depending what fleet you talking about. Apparently shortage of people is on 777 where guys are flying 110+ hrs per month, similar situation is on 350 fleet. On other hand 787 seems struggling to scale up new routes as the fleet is not the preferred one right now. (limited cargo utilization and no rest bunks for long double sector duties) for Doha based guys flies 30-40 hrs with lot of flight cancellations due to fleet change. Anyway company ops and planning is clearly looking for any opportunity where to fly and dynamically changing rotation, fleets and adding more and more destinations every month so I would stay positive.

[NoodleDriver]

Thank you for the update,
There is very little positivity to be found anywhere these days ..so I'll gladly take this glimmer of hope.
Cheers

[Skyfl410]

captain.weird

I doubt they are calling back people who have been made redundant. There are still too many 'Active' pilots out of the country. For us, out of Qr, there is no hope...

[captain.weird]

I meant with being called back who were out of QR but kept the job. Not the ones who were made redundant.

[RoyHudd]

Any airline that chooses to fly into a wide variety of so many countries, all of which have severe travel restrictions, should be classified as a super-spreader. An airline super-spreader. If these countries into which they operate include Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and India, the risks are very real. And as for the poor employees of these airlines, they are being widely exposed to the virus from all and sundry passengers. Despatchers, ground crew too. The crews can then spread this pandemic liberally, as can their passengers.

I do not suggest that QR are guilty of this. Nor EK, EY, or WY. Nor PIA or AI. Absolutely not. This could apply to many other carriers.

[Whip717]

WY get rid of all expats already, only a few TRE/TRI left until all the locals get trained, then, halas...I hope they don’t need expats in the future, it will be hard for them to offer a competitive package.

Is QR still furloughing pilots?

[NoodleDriver]

RoyHudd

You're absolutely right -

The Airlines are spreading a MOST DEADLY virus ..

So DEADLY that 1.09 Million out of the 7.5 BILLION global inhabitants have died from it or about .00014% of the planet.

[SirTimAlRedha]

You want not take it so lightly if you did catch it mate

[fatbus]

Noodleboy, you might want to ring your head in mate !

[expat.pilot]

The Qatar Airways management style...
You have to apply the one engine taxi procedure or you will be fired... Captain decision regarding flight safety is not anymore.... QROC will decide for you what is safe or not.
You have to stay inside the hotel premises or in the room or you will be fired...
Do not communicate on WhatsApp or you will be fired.. well in fact, they have been fired...

Of course, Qatar Airways does take flight safety very seriously, fatigue is not a factor, it is "legal Captain"...

I can not post the documents yet, but it will come...

[fab777]

one death per 1000 inhabitants in Peru. 1 per 1300 in the USA.

[expat.pilot]

The latest, coming from a high Habibi level,
300 to 400 pilots to be made redundant by the end of October....

[expat.pilot]

Same Habibi has confirmed those blocked outside Qatar and just called to come back to Doha will be made redundant... Guys, get ready...

[flyer4life]

NoodleDriver

Actually that’s 0.014% :8

[TKFD]

expat.pilot

Presumably this is the same “Habibi” as you put it or you are part of the same group of “scaremongerers” who have said something similar about everyone who has returned so far.
Ive flown with several people who have recently returned and they have all told me that once they got back and completed their quarantine then life was very normal work wise... rostered for the required recurrent training sessions then straight back flying the line.

It makes total sense to me that in the past week or so there seems to be another group of pilots being processed to come back as the Airline is announcing more increases to its schedule. They need more pilots and the pilots who have been in Doha this whole time can’t fly 110+ hours per month forever.

If you’re on your way back to Doha please ignore
those people on here whose sole objective is to scare and worry their so called colleagues. Some of them get a sick and twisted kick out of it for some reason!

[Count von Altibar]

This sounds brutal, so the guys are coming back to be given the boot. I definitely read somewhere recently that QR were going to expand flying.

[Papa_Golf]

Do not communicate on WhatsApp or you will be fired..

This sums up the whole crew regulations chapter.

[expat.pilot]

TKFD

Time will tell... Hold your breath!
But your words sound like a manager speech, that is pretty interesting. It sounds like everyone's happy and not fatigue, especially on the 350 and 777...

[expat.pilot]

Fatigue survey....
Habibi told me it was requested by QRC (Qatar Airways Clinic) AMEs as there were too many cases of pilots exhausted showing up at the clinic following flights and during their class 1 renewals.
Remember what Fleet said and shut your mouth.
All the rosters are legal. Any fatigue report will be thoroughly looked at. This will be your fault, not the company fault.

Solidarity program
Habibi said thank you for your solidarity towards the Qatari staff who are not under the solidarity program. Your forced agreement makes them happy, they have recovered their salary with their yearly step increase.
The Baker is very grateful you understand you have to lose your money, work hard, this is the happyness solidarity program.

[CDRW]

expat.pilot

You forgot to add one more thing...
" and if you don't like it, you can Foxtot Oscar back to where you cam from"

The airline has us by the balls ( figuratively speaking for the lady pilots out there) right now. BUT things will change and as a community - we wont forgot.

[lucille]

Nah. The “community” will forget in 30 seconds. A job offer with a new type rating causes instant amnesia. Most will do anything to fly a shiny new type. And in 5 years a whole new generation will appear who won’t even know what Covid19 was.

[cabbages]

So True....There is no community amongst pilots. It's everyone for themselves. Some pilot, somewhere, will always accept whatever terms are offered.

[Themeatfleet]

lucille

So True!!! “Community” amongst pilots is non existent. There are more than enough who’d steal from their grandma’s just to get a shiny jet type rating and the occasional brunch Instagram snap..... and who won’t hesitate to crawl over anyone or any T’s & C’s on the way. The people who run airlines know this and have exploited it in the past and will exploit it again 🤣

[Count von Altibar]

Themeatfleet you are so right, this has been a major part of the reason for our downfall as a profession.

[Flying Clog]

Very depressing. No honour amongst thieves (us pilots that is). Not to mention the blood sucking airlines who will stop at nothing to screw over the profession.

[expat.pilot]

As it was not possible to give more rest to flight deck crew, our super Habibi management found it would be good to give them more to do.
"Pre-flight check by flight crew in Doha" ACN, or how to save few more pennies towards the Solidarity program...
Obviously, you ain't tired enough, so the FDP won't change, but please you can go earlier to the aircraft, let's be on time!
Let's make passengers fly safe,
Let's make pilots fly more...
QatarAirways, let's crash together!
I am surprise this ACN is not raising the now so traditional "you will be fired" lovely message.

[NoodleDriver]

flyer4life

Thanks Mate, :ok:

[expat.pilot]

Habibi said more redundancies,
Guess what, Habibi was right...
A320 pilots fired, it is just a start.
Guys coming back to Doha, be aware.

[FlyingOW]

expat.pilot

Not entirely accurate. I know 5 guys that came back and are flying the line.

[expat.pilot]

As I said, hold your breath. It is not because they are flying now, that they won't be made redundant.
You know how it works here! Nothing makes sense.
But, Habibi said...

[captain.weird]

All T7 I suppose?

[FlyingOW]

Holding my breath? Why, are you? Have you seen what’s going on in our industry around the world?

Unfortunately and most regrettably redundancies are inevitable. And my close friends and colleagues who have been made redundant have my deepest sympathies. Wishing you all the best.

But coming on here and being a bearer of bad news doesn’t help anyone. You almost seem to revel in it as a poster previously mentioned.

[expat.pilot]

What do you want to hear? Qatar Airways is the amazing employer respecting his staff and crew?
Of course not, so I just share the real "what is going on inside".
By the way, some engineers were made redundant recently, thanks to the new Skipper-engineer ACN.
During that time, I am flying with guys who are dead exhausted but dare not saying it or raising the concern, thanks to the fear management style.

[Silver68]

expat.pilot

Go out and get yourself a hobby.

[Skyfl410]

I think that QR management still works on a short term basis. They should get down and focus on the long term and make the right decisions at the right time.
I don't think it's very intelligent to send pilots away at this current moment because many have families. Lots of these poor pilots have already sent their children to school. By sending away a pilot not only you messed up a personal life but they are also messing around with peoples families and children.
Immagine leaving Doha after three/four years, going back to your home country in the current situation, looking for a right school. If you are lucky, they might accept your child in NOVEMBER if not your child could lose a hall year of school. Immagine your kids readapting to new friends, teachers, environment etc. or Asking your wife to find a new job .. I think QR management is really out of there minds. The only have the small picture. Why didn't they make the real decision at the right moment like in July and august? That was the moment to make the definite cut. Was it so hard to understand that this ******* virus situation was going to carry on for a long time? QR is not only responsible for its pax but also the crew AND FAMILIES!!! ... This is the moment where they had to show the 5-star airline.

FlyingOW, we are talking about the wealthiest country in the world. In the aviation language ''rich'' means having the most significant advantage on everything... they can save every single staff with all the money they get from the Qatari government... But still today they are behaving like a low-cost carrier. Sending childish email about saving fuel but they waste money on empty flights..

FlyingOW : Unfortunately and most regrettably redundancies are inevitable...

Reaaally?? are they INEVITABLE?? I don't think so... is it so hard for them to understand that crew would accept UNPAID LEAVE on a
turnover basis ....Like six months on six months off. This would help the airline save money, be more human, keep the pilots relaxed, have them always updated and QR would make great publicity! Immagine the slogan ''WE KEPT YOU ALL..TO FLY OUR FUTURE TOGETHER'' :)

noooo it's too hard for them. The best way is to keep them stuck in Doha, pay them full salary without nothing to do, keep them suffering because they can't fly back to there country to visit a relative, send IDIOTIC EMAILS. Worst of all crew fly in a general environment which does not help safety.

They are just too stubborn to give options to staff and see what would be best for both airline and crew.

Instead of sending surveys on fatigue which are useless, they should send a survey on what people need.. Help them get home.

BUT NO SORRY they are Just too busy finding WhatsApp groups, send stupid emails about Single engine taxi...yeaaa this is a problem.

Expat pilot is not giving bad news its just the pure reality. He told us that by the end of October, more pilots would be redundant, guess what.... it's happening.

[FlyingAce77]

expat.pilot

True that, around 400+ Aircraft Engineers & Mechanics have been made redundant in the current redundancy drive that happened last week. It’s just a S*** Show. ULV Cabin Crews have as well been made redundant, this is Majority who took unpaid leave.

[FlyingAce77]

expat.pilot

This has been started from B787s initially..

[expat.pilot]

Silver68

Guess what! due to overused rosters, and ACN 064-20, I can not go out (illegally) and I have no time for a hobby except flying for QR.
Well done!
How can they legally block us in countries where we are free to go out?
How could they justify that in front of a local court (Germany, USA, ....)?

[Silver68]

it was sarcasm

[FlyingAce77]

expat.pilot


CC can go out but FDC can’t go out, if you go out, you are Fired” I guess Qatar has no concept of Mental Health, if they did, things would have had been different” EG is the EEP System!

[FlyingAce77]

Unfortunately seems to be true. 777 Cpt from New Zealand. This is what a friend told me.
That’s correct, He was from NZ & was made redundant. It’s just sad what has happened starting March in QR & Across the Aviation Industry.

[Nick 1]

Offenders ? WTF ..... Let’s bring them on chop chop square like saudi .

[Silver68]

Guys, despite any grievances that we may have, let us keep it professional. Posting internal documents on a forum such as this is not the way to do it. Especially when peoples names are in full view.

[expat.pilot]

Think a bit...
What could be the reason of those 55% compliance rate?
I have raised a point of flying, fatigue, It happened I just forgot to shut down one engine for taxi after a long duty.... And so what? is this unprofessionalism?
So, before trying to shot me, try not to act as one of our company manager, and try to understand WHY the trend went that low.
Shall I shut down an engine for taxi if I feel it is not the right moment, time to do it?
And don't tell me I could explain them, there is nothing like explaining them.
Especially after their legal 23h FDP turns...

[Flyboysg]

expat.pilot


CC can go out but FDC can’t go out, if you go out, you are Fired” I guess Qatar has no concept of Mental Health, if they did, things would have had been different” EG is the EEP System!

Well, many airlines do not let their crew go out of rooms. Its probably for their own good, but I would say it's mostly so that they don't go get infected in places like US, UK or India and import covid back home. If grown adult pilots cant even stay in their rooms for a few days without having mental issues, especially with all the glorious tech stuff around something is really wrong.

Just zoom or FaceTime somebody. Even better bring ur com and enjoy the freedom gaming

[Skyfl410]

Guys, despite any grievances that we may have, let us keep it professional. Posting internal documents on a forum such as this is not the way to do it. Especially when peoples names are in full view.

How can you stay PROFESSIONAL with someone how is not professional with you? Personally, I think its correct to advise people what really goes on in QR.

Which documents have been shown on the forum? please bring facts..

[Silver68]

Skyfl410

Sorry can't help you. Expat.pilot deleted the 'proof'.

[Skyfl410]

Flyboysg

Can you tell us which of these many airlines apply the same rule? Bring us facts...Qr didn't even do Temperature checks until late June ...all this because Mr.Burns did not believe in the virus. Now they are all worried about crew getting infected? Makes me laugh... Qr can't impose any restrictions unless its a government law. In Australia, Crew is not allowed to leave the hotel room by LAW. In most European countries, it does not apply to the crew. Qr is not above any law. If a crew gets reported, they should sue The airline and hotel for violating privacy.

Did you know that Qr got a Huge Fine by Pakistan government for not applying COVID SOP protocol? Before applying silly rules to the crew... QR should LEAD by example...

Let's be honest ... the Hotel rooms are not the perfect example of cleanness and hygiene. Better to take a walk in the fresh air and stay away from people.

I would like to see you in your City. I'm sure after ten months stuck in Doha you would Run to visit your family taking all the possible precautions.

[Skyfl410]

Silver68

OK Thanks.... it was just for curiosity

[FlyingAce77]

Flyboysg

Covid doesn’t discriminate.. CC on the same flight will go to the hotel, change and go out, take insta stories and openly share it on social media.. station information is being regularly ignored.

[Silver68]

Flyboysg

I share your sentiment. The pandemic is and has been tough for many people. For now, I am just grateful that my mortgage is paid, my family has food and I am still able to make use of the education allowance for my child's education. I have seen many of my colleagues depart Qatar and enter an employment abyss; some who may not see the inside of an aircraft for a few years. If you are still employed just be grateful that you still have a job, I know i am. One only has to look across the water at Emirates to see how they have been decimated in the 380 fleet. As a professional pilot my heart goes out to all the families who have been literally destroyed by this situation. Here in Qatar, many crew have been out of the country for 8 months on 30% pay. How many of us could survive on 30% pay?

In summary, it is tough, but it's tough for everyone based on their personal experience. Whining and bitching about how badly you're being treated does not help anyone. When things calm down, which they will, look for another job where you will be better treated. Posting company letters on here serves no purpose other than to show a lack of professionalism. And no, i am not a company apologist and i don't agree with the way everything has been dealt with, but i will act as professionally as i can whilst being paid by Qatar.

[expat.pilot]

Sorry guys, long trip, don't stop flying, living the dream, but borderline regarding the FDP...

First, I didn't delete my post with the document, the pprune admin or moderators did. Why? Any threats from QR?
But people can find the its content here:
https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-threatens-pilots/
The author is the CFOO, Jassim has no respect for us!

Second, why would I be "professional" towards an unprofessional management? They treat us like dogs, slaves. So why would I treat them differently?

Third, having the chance to have a job doesn't mean accepting everything and anything.
I can see here the classic speech "if you don't like it leave it" management style.

If no one raise its voice to point out problems, it won't be taken care of, and don't tell me you can fix this internally, I am fed up with those guys pushing my professionalism to the extreme limit, because this is where we are now: exhausted pilots (350 and 777) pushed to the limit.
So Capt., You are treating me like ****, this is your name on the plate, public, travelers, authorities, should see how you treat badly your crew...

[FlyingAce77]

Thats typical GCC mentality! If you aren’t happy Leave.. 😂 Safety is being compromised, Mental Health is an issue, Exhaustion is an issue, Undue pressure from the management is a Issue.

[expat.pilot]

OMG ,looking at all your post you keep criticizing every single guy you did answer to.
You are one of the 50 too if the airline, probably manager, and you don't want to face the reality here.
You are trying to turn the unprofessional email from the CFOO into a "you are an unprofessional pilot", basically, every single of your post you are trying to turn the guys ridiculous.
Good job mate, keep protecting the company management style.
By the way, I didn't say I am not following SOPs, this is here you way to turn things upside down.
I said it happened I forgot to turn one engine off after landing for taxiing, and so what.
I do say pilots fall into sleep and can not follow SOPs due to exhaustion.
I do say this is now a threat, a threat from the management.

[FlyingOW]

You are embarrassing yourself and your fellow colleagues. Silver68 hit the nail on the head yet you continue. You are not doing us any favours and you certainly do not speak for me.

[expat.pilot]

I am not sure you really understand, or you are a part of this tip top management!
If this particular SOP isn't well followed, there is maybe few reasons. Fatigue could be one.
Just for your personal knowledge:
https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Fatigue

So please, tell me fatigue can not be a factor!?

Now, if this particular SOP shows little adherence to, the best solution is certainly not to threaten pilots, but to study where the management has failed! In order to understand that (basic Human Factor or CRM course), you need to get out of this management style!

My 2 cents, the fear factor in this company doesn't help...

[Silver68]

We understand, we just don't agree with the way in which you going about it. Furthermore, just because people may disagree with you, does not automatically make us management either.

With regard to the main point you are making, the company has simply stated that pilots are not conducting single engine taxiing AND are not giving any reason in the post flight report. They have no issue with you not following this SOP, providing there is a valid reason. So in short, shut down one engine OR make sure you explain why you didn't.

Do i agree with the threat of termination because of this? No. This is however their train set and they get to make the rules.

[Skyfl410]

Silver68

Think you're missing out on the big picture just like I was when in Qr. I'm currently unemployed with two children and a wife. We are living on my savings, my wife found a job, and the kids are going to school. Guess what? It's not so bad...We are back to reality. I prefer this life than the one I Had in Qr. My advice is don't think that Qr is everything because today your in and tomorrow your out (HOPE NOT)

I was really stressed in Qr, and the last email about Single engine taxi brought back to my mind all the threatening ACN, emails sent by managers and also the generally hostile atmosphere. The QR mentality is '' One makes a mistake lets punish them all'. You Perfectly know why the crew are not conferable with Single Eng Taxi... especially in DOH. In a way, I'm thankful they took the decision for me to lead that place.

Mr EXPAT PILOT is showing our community how more messed up things are in QR and how they are dealing with it. It might not be very professional, but QR isn't professional with him and our colleges, so they deserve it.

[Silver68]

skyfl410

Thanks, but i don't think i'm missing the big picture at all. I've been in the ME nearly 7 years and i'm pretty familiar with how things are done here in Qatar. For the record, I don't believe Qatar is 'everything' at all, far from it.

I wish you and your family all the best for the future.

[mmorel]

We have pilot from different countries and cultures . People who came from third world countries think Qatar airways is best airline and that's because the way there were treated back at their ex- employer. Imagine a pilot was working 20 years in a hostile environment with low income and then joined Qatar airways .

[lfbb]

Never become a QR employee if you can't follow the quote bellow:
"You don’t want to work anywhere you’re not willing to get fired from."

Accept that and QR will be the best job you will ever have...

[pfvspnf]

What is happening to people stuck outside the country ? Return and then fired ?

[boeing.airbus]

Habibi said you are all a bunch of thieves, open your bag!
New ACN...

[Neektu]

Silver68

it’s strange to make SE taxi as SOP. Boeing, for instance, never recommended SE taxi, but left to operators to come up with their own rules. The airline I used to fly for would “strongly recommend SE taxi,” but after due consideration of several variables by the crew.
Never part of the SOP.

[Eric Hartman]

Neektu, can we have a reference please?

[Silver68]

Neektu,

Not really. I've worked at a couple of airlines that have made it a procedure, albeit never mandatory, as here in Qatar.

[desert_dog]

Is hard to believe the crews are not following the RETI procedure. I would call it :mad:. What I observed every single crew is trying to follow SOP at least for few seconds before docking if not other way possible. If the company has a problem with numbers firstly ask state-of-the-air IT department how databases are connected…. I do understand the number for management is kind of problem, but company should ask how they get the number at first place if number provided is realistic or just generated from in-house-made IT system. I have never seen ignoring single engine taxi in for no reason, never!

Plus I completely agree that email was arrogant and far beyond how to communicate with people in 5 star company. And shortly after… the management approved breast cancer show-off 787 flight in time when nobody cares about breast cancer, waste tons of fuel for no reason. Great motivation to continue with single engine taxi in order to safe few kilograms of fuel…

[mmorel]

I always followed the SOP and used SE taxi after landing but yer My contract got terminated. I think they are just making excuse to terminate more flight crew contrast. Typical middle east attitude. The problem is they have money and there are always people who want to make more money and join Qatar Airways. The reality is money is everything.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

~Great PR for Qatar

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-25/passengers-invasively-searched-qatar-after-report-foetus-found/12811716

[5star]

O.M.G. what a bunch of clowns......
you can’t make this up, can you....
well that sums it up nicely isn’ it? That alone did more damage than 1000 posts on prune....
:ugh:

[Bigaircolibri]

Nothing about it in the local news, they keep it quiet, nothing happened.

[Skyfl410]

Unfortunately, More of my friends have been made redundant. Two on A320 and one on A330. There were other 15 pilots with them...

[Skyfl410]

Capn Rex Havoc

This is crazy! Happy not to be part of them anymore... they are really embarrassing.

[Flyboysg]

Well they can't hide.. it's in the news everywhere 😂

Just a few...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/26/i-was-absolutely-terrified-australian-witness-recounts-qatar-strip-search-ordeal
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/world/australia/qatar-airways-women-strip-search-baby.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54682565
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/qatar-airways-examine-women-baby-airport-australia-13372932

[Pauleg120]

Gross. Very qatar style. I hope those Aussie women take legal actions again them. Poor women

[FlyingAce77]

It’s beyond Embarrassing..
HIA statement is just like ignoring that Strip Search happened without Consent” which actually was the case, What I’m curious about is, How did authorities made a decision to only delay SYD bound flight?
were other flights in the same slot were delayed as well?
non the less Twitter is a Buzz & QAtar PR is losing it.

[airbourne]

Any word on when the 330 fleet is being retired? All pax aircraft grounded, but 4 freighters still flying. What is to become of the 330 drivers?

[vobotex]

Nothing about it in the local news, they keep it quiet, nothing happened.
Maybe you should check before posting:

www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/article/26/10/2020/Hamad-International-Airport-statement-on-finding-abandoned-new-born-at-airport
www.iloveqatar.net/news/general/hia-responds-to-allegations-that-female-australian-passengers-searched-invasively-at-hia-after-premature-baby-found-in-terminal-bathroom
www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/26/passengers-strip-searched-after-baby-found-at-doha-airport

just to name few...

[Bigaircolibri]

Brother,
Maybe you should shake yourself before posting....
Check dates and times of your references, and check what date and time I posted my message...
So think twice before posting!

[FlyingAce77]

Qatar Airways faces an effective grounding of its planes in Sydney as workers consider striking over the treatment earlier this month of some female Australian passengers in Doha

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-27/qatar-airways-faces-protest-over-examination-of-australian-women#click=https://t.co/Y9COAcUqfT

[Skyfl410]

Like always they will get away with it..

[FlyingAce77]

Payne said 18 Australian women on the October 2 flight to Sydney were affected, along with “other foreign nationals”. The AFP news agency reported one French woman on the flight was among them.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/28/women-on-10-qatar-flights-invasively-examined-australia

[BOEMBUS]

Like always they will get away with it..


Just like the Aussies do every day in regards to the indigenous people of that continent.

So, let's not cry over a search done by airport authorities.

Do you see people complain about how they are treated on arrival in the States or UK?

No. Because it's accepted as the norm.

Live and let live..

[Xaxa]

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing if someone decided to have your wife and daughter stripped and gave them a quick preflight gynaecological examination.

[Fonse1977]

Mmorel
You talk this way because you were fired, weren’t you!
Don’t take it back with other pilots, it is unfair...you are an embarrassment...you wished you had a job with QR!
Get a job (if you can), grow up and move forward my friend

[Fired600]

Not sure the last time I heard of that in the States or U.K......... I think there would be more than a few complaints if there were pre boarding gynaecological examinations for females of child bearing age in the States or UK

[edi_local]

Aside from the fact that there are numerous stories out there about abuse from UK Border Force or USCBP, they simply wouldn't carry out anything like this violation. The closest you would get would be inspections for drug smuggling, but it would not be done at random. There would have to be grounds for suspicion and other factors, such as the women already having drugs in her possession. Even in that situation she would have the right to privacy and legal protection from abuse too. Clearly No such things in Doha.

Surely it would have been better to check CCTV, ask crew and staff to be on the look out for distressed, unwell women who are struggling to walk, as one might expect after giving birth prematurely in an airport bathroom. It's completely unfathomable why the authorities decided to go straight to examining what now appears to be dozens of innocent women in the most intrusive way possible. At the end of the day the woman has now left Qatar and is very unlikely to be found, we don't know the circumstances which led to her leaving a baby in the bathroom bins, but if she thought it was her best option then the alternative must have been truly horrific.

What has happened in Doha is clearly a totally indefensible situation and one which now appears to be growing legs and rightly so. I hope each and every woman involved comes forward and the Qatari government (note I don't necessarily blame QR as I doubt they had much say in it) are made to compensate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/world/qatar-airways-australia-baby-flight-intl-hnk/index.html

[Skyfl410]

BOEMBUS

Would like to see your reaction if the same thing happened to your wife or daughter. Normal countries like the UK and US don't allow this kind of medieval behaviour. You are out of your mind

[GDAJB]

Awful! But what does this have to do with salary reductions and redundancies? Isn’t it worth its own thread?

[Bigaircolibri]

It shows how the company is led, exactly the same way.
So imagine what QR can do against their staff, crew members, Captains.
What a disgrace...

[FlyingAce77]

Remember the case of the Drunk CC found outside Her accommodation? How an internal email with her picture was sent by the VP? How she was humiliated? But this story is gaining momentum now, These were “State Authorities “ who took this action hence a “State Policy” to be considered.

[airbourne]

There is a separate thread for that. Perhaps you could direct your thoughts there.

Back to the devastating state of play for all QR boys & girls.

I have heard about 100 A330 crew gone this week.

[FlyingAce77]

Since couple of days CC are getting calls who are active flying in Doha to visit Tower 2, & are being made redundant...
not surprised A330 Crew is part of it since there are surplus Deck Crew & all Pax A330 are grounded apart from 4 A330 Freighters..
Sad days!

[Count von Altibar]

Sounds ominous then for the A330 pilots, hopefully they'll switch them to A350 use this quiet time to do conversion courses.

[Aviateur86]

I've heard that the VP flight ops was removed from his office and sent back to his basic line captain position, is that true ? I guess they used him to take care of that dirty whatsapp job then replaced him with someone else.

[Bigaircolibri]

"Zavatta" is just an asshole, the CFOO muppet, with absolut no consideration to pilots and Captains, he made his path thru only by playing its dirty game. That guy remind me the famous ex VPFO

[Fonse1977]

Heard he had a fight with the local boss J in flt ops because of the reti but managed to give the job to his best Ek friend....the maltese who might take over soon..and he will be back..back to the future...all Ek a$..le...May God help us all

[FlyingAce77]

This is Standard QR Policy, Get the dirty work done & then Let go of the employee!

[Aviateur86]

More redundancies this week, 320, 330 and 787 guys with roster changed to TBN, very sad indeed, in the 380 fleet they only kept the few slaimy xxxlickrs that were orbiting in the office every day, no surprise.
No news concerning the ex vp flt ops and the pilots he protected and facilitated so far, they managed to escape the redundancy process thanks to him, rumors are that he resigned (or was asked to resign qr style)

[777kicker]

Good to know the Sicilian hitman got the shaft. They made him do the dirty work, as usual, then dumped him. Waiting now to see all his protégées go down the drain with him.

[Count von Altibar]

This whole thing sounds vile, it doesn't cost anything to be more humane when carrying out redundancies.

[Yousef1989]

MMOREL

If you lost your job don’t take it back with colleagues who are a bit luckier than you..redundancies are not over and we are all stressed!
Don’t pretend and don’t embarass yourself! You wished you had a job in QR!
Get a job (if you can) and move forward!

[Yousef1989]

Same Habibi has confirmed those blocked outside Qatar and just called to come back to Doha will be made redundant... Guys, get ready...

What about trainers redundancies?
Any update, the feedback from training management is that trainers will not be affected unless the fleet is not utilized at all

[fatbus]

Lol. The mafia ( not Italian) are shaking in their boots because of the new VPFO, house cleaning to follow .

[Aviateur86]

The management already knows everything, a more specific letter with details will be sent shortly to the big boss and possibly via the 'snitch channel' whistleblower internal email, just wait and see. I still work here and I can't afford to lose this job, someone else will do it. Great pilots have been sent home instead of others, that is completely unfair, I know them personally, what a shame.

[FlyingAce77]

What about trainers redundancies?
Any update, the feedback from training management is that trainers will not be affected unless the fleet is not utilized at all
No one is immune” I have heard a review will happen every 2 months to see if to increase the frequency or reduce this will decide if more redundancies to follow.. But More tough times ahead that includes more salary reduction .. 😖

[Skyfl410]

Aviateur86

Very Sad.. Let's wait and see what happens

[Skyfl410]

By the way, my post was cancelled ...I wonder why????$$$

[Aviateur86]

Unfortunately in June they terminated a group of instructors and examiners, same reason, the whatsapp tri/tre group, sounds ridicolous I know but that's what happened and among those,there were some of the most experienced/talented/professional guys I've ever met, coming from amazing companies with an excellent safety record like Cathay and so on. This attitude is nonsense and self destructing, sendig home some of the best trainers you have because of whatsapp (at least that's what they said, nice 'not so legal' excuse to get rid of someone)

[krismiler]

I have heard a review will happen every 2 months to see if to increase the frequency or reduce this will decide if more redundancies to follow

Keeping the axe hovering over peoples heads is soul destroying, whilst redundancies may be unavoidable, they need to do it in one chop so that those not affected can get on with some certainty. Morale must be rock bottom throughout the entire company at the moment.

[FlyingAce77]

Moral is at the lowest ever in QR, Be it Technical Flight Ops QAS Cabin Services”. It’s a mess that has no ending nor a plan!
Like in technical layoffs happened of Mechanics & Aircraft Engineers, Then I have heard Mechanics are being re-hired on a new contract because there is shortage..

[White Knight]

they need to do it in one chop so that those not affected can get on with some certainty

Unlikely given that the market itself is so damn uncertain!

[captain.weird]

Under the same T&Cs I hope...

[Python27]

For sure...

Not

[FlyingAce77]

Another Memo from the GCEO” Solidarity Program Update” More routes to close, A/Cs to be grounded & more redundancies to follow.. AAB projects aviation won’t come back to pre-covid level until 2024.
I wonder where does FIFA 2022 stand?

[krismiler]

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/11/10/qatar-airways-chief-executive-announces-with-heavy-heart-that-more-job-losses-are-unavoidable-internal-memo/

The chief executive of Qatar Airways has told staff in an internal memo that the airline will be forced to make more redundancies as “COVID-19 continues to tighten its grip on many parts of the world with no sign of slowing down”. Akbar Al Baker warned that “a further reduction of headcount is now sadly unavoidable in some areas” without detailing which departments faced cuts.

In contrast to the largely positive statements Qatar Airways has released about rebuilding its route network, Al Baker said: “many of our routes remain commercially unviable due to a significant drop in global demand for air travel”.

Qatar Airways first made “substantial” job cuts in early May but Al Baker said the number of redundancies had been “significantly less than many of our competing airlines during this time.”

It is, however, “with a heavy heart” that Al Baker informed staffers of a further tranche of compulsory redundancies. Addressing criticism that the employees who were laid off earlier this year faced a chaotic departure and had issues with leaving salaries being paid, Al Baker said those made redundant would be “treated with the utmost courtesy, respect and compassion”.

“We must not forget that the unprecedented and unforeseen challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic came at a time when the industry was already facing significant pressure due to increasingly adverse market conditions,” the memo continued.

“In addition to this, as outlined in Qatar Airways Annual Report, the airline is dealing with record-breaking losses, due in no small part to the illegal blockade on Qatar by our neighbouring states”.

Qatar Airways recently reported a $1.9 billion loss for the 2019/2020 financial year. The airline has already received nearly the same amount in financial support from the government of Qatar which owns the airline.

Qatar Airways faced criticism over the way it selected who would be made redundant in the first wave of lay-offs with reports the airline disproportionately selected cabin crew with more than 15-years of service. Some of the cabin crew who remained have since been redeployed to work in the airline’s call centre’s while flying remains depressed.

The memo was sent on the same day that regional rival Etihad Airways informed its pilots that more redundancies would be announced imminently.

Qatar Airways employed just over 50,000 employees worldwide across its group of companies as of March 2020. The airline has not publicly said how many employees have been made redundant since the start of the pandemic.

Qatar Airways has been contacted for comment.

[Aviateur86]

They prepare the audience for the next "reduction", I'm curious if this time they will pick those with active warning letters or not, including the ones SAVED illegally by the "ex" VPFO. It is unbelievably unfair what happened here, the management works in a shady way, how can the big boss accept all this ? What happened to the Company's reputation ?

[White Knight]

the management works in a shady way, how can the big boss accept all this

Company culture works from the very top and down through the leadership pyramid...

[Bigaircolibri]

All of them are!
Coming from the local CFOO, the ex Italian VPFO, but also the Senior managers and deputies!
They have all played the dirty game to give warning and final warning letters to guys, that way they were eligible for the "redundancy"...
This is also the way they do to protect their own position. One guy pointed out some problems, been given a warning letter, and right after that been called for redundancy....

Do you really think the Baker isn't aware of this unfair game!?

What about that guy who posted here the CFOO letter?

[GDAJB]

“I assure you that any colleagues leaving the business will be treated with the utmost courtesy, respect and compassion”

🤣 Wonderful, that despite the pandemic, they haven’t lost their sense of humour!

[Python27]

And 25% stolen from the notice period 👍

[Aviateur86]

The VPFO was removed without any "thank you" note, nothing, like if he didn't exist, in complete silence. Rumors say that his accomplice in HR, the guy who was spying employees and their social media by playing "Sherlock Holmes" was also removed, only the privileged that were protected by them are still there, despite active warning and caution letters, I call this unprofessional, unfair and unsafe and gives the perfect idea of what's the quality level of QR flight crew not to mention the 'thickness' of the managers who accept all this.

[Bigaircolibri]

How many 350 and 777 guys were made redundant right after being given an unfair warning letter?
How come those guys were made redundant knowing the roster are tight, flying 100h+ per month!
Oh, I guess the fair redundancy system put in place push the management under the CFOO to select the futur eligible pilots!
They can not select the names for the redundancy, so let's make them eligible....
Here we go how to protect friends, new expensive type ratings, fleet transfer....

What is the Baker email to report those cases?

[Ticker1]

I don’t know how many on the 350 but a lot what i know is the guys that were on holiday or stuck outside of Doha Since February they call them back to fly again, and the pilots that stay in Doha flying in the core of the pandemic were made redundant.
i think that was very unfair but we all know how QR brain works the opposite from a human been i think their brain is their ass.

[FlyingAce77]

Bigaircolibri

Not sure about the Email but Open door policy is still there and Memo are being accepted!

[Silver68]

Ticker1
So, by your way of thinking, all of the 400 pilots locked out of Qatar over the last 8 months should be first in the firing line. Many were on annual leave or took unpaid leave at the request of the company, not to mention a 70% pay cut, some received no pay. Don't blame those guys, it is not their fault. The company does what the company does, none of us have any say in the process. For your information, some pilots who have just returned have indeed been let go.

[hafiz86]

hi guys..sorry out of track. can anyone give recruitment email?
thanks

[Ticker1]

Silver68,
i was stuck outside aswell but everyone though it was going to be us the ones outside, no the other way around i was preparing myself to grab my letter but for my surprise it wasn’t.
what i mean by this is the process and the way the choose the people was wrong in airlines were the management its professional and they are wolfs and not sheep like here would have never allowed this; everyone knows that in a situation like this you start from the bottom the juniors an then the seniors but here is the opposite you start from the seniors and leave the juniors so your never know when will be your turn so its better to prepare yourself so you don’t get caught by surprise like this guys they thought were safe because they flew the 777 or 350 during the year.

[Ticker1]

hi guys..sorry out of track. can anyone give recruitment email?
thanks

Lol!!! hahaha...

[FlyingAce77]

Silver68

True, some who got back had their rosters TBN”

[Akrep]

hi guys..sorry out of track. can anyone give recruitment email?
thanks

[email protected]
Goodluck

[EchoKilla]

icantwaittogetonboardCovid19stoppedrecruitment@qatarairways. com.qa

[Cak]

And 25% stolen from the notice period 👍

Could you please elaborate?

[Count von Altibar]

I think he's referring to the ongoing pay reductions that are in place.

[FlyingAce77]

Even GCEO approved Extension in Employment doesn’t get honored by the department & playing cleaver with someone in HR getting employees to leave.. Imagine! Only because of EGO.

[NoodleDriver]

Apparently in the last few days another round of layoffs on the 777 fleet despite pilots flying in excess of 90hrs a month and two vaccines within reaching distance.

Is HR actually speaking to Flt Ops and Fleet ?

[FlyingAce77]

Forget about HR, HR is playing dirty, go and look at Tower 3, it’s crazy inside, It feels like half of Qatar airways have been laid off- Its simple, QR didn’t handle this in a professional manner at all” People who resigned and had to work for 3 months on notice period were told they were made redundant and will be given 3 months of salary along with EOSB! My point is which airline will pay to keep employees from coming into work? No airline! It’s just insanity to say the least!

3rd vaccine is also within reach” They just want to reduce the Head Count”

[Ticker1]

QR didn’t handle this in a professional manner

Come on Qatar Airways never handle anything professional what can you expect when the redundancy pilot are been chose by man power and you know who man power is? Qatar airways ex cabin crew so boys be nice with your CSD and CS cause your career and your family destiny depends of cabin crew,; in my 50 years+ and work for 2 previous airlines before, never seeing anything like this where the flight ops department is unbelievable weak that the cabin crew control them, anyone in that department has no Balls to stand up less to stand up for the pilot group.
This airline amaze me.

[FlyingAce77]

Recent numbers of cabin crew are out” 14000 Pre Covid, now remaining 9000 in a recent WebEx meeting of CS & CSD Performance managers have said they will be bringing down the Cabin Crew number to 6000, and 2500 are stuck outside”
I expect more layoffs happening from Flight ops & Technical department

[Twiglet1]

FlyingAce77

Quiet a common practice for airlines to pay up the notice period. QR are probably worried about staff on notice spoiling the brand (or more worse any internal systems)

[Aviateur86]

The guys with active warning letters (for serious safety related events ) are still flying like nothing happened, the guys who were stuck outside on a forced vacation are back in qatar, flying like nothing happened, pilots who stayed in doha without any letter have been made redundant by some incompetent below average guys in the office, A B has no idea of the nonsense rationale applied otherwise he would've fired many 'wannabe' managers like the ex vpfo for keeping the wrong people, fun fact is that he pretend his company has the best safety record.

[fatbus]

Sounds similar to EK !

[tundrapilot]

Why we are not going 2 years back ? When the company asked captains and Fos to resign from their jobs in order to join this flying circus, gave them class dates, and a week before cancelled everything and put them again in the talent pool ... This company was the definition of unprofessionalism even before the virus. Can you imagine now ?

[FlyingAce77]

FlyingAce77

Quiet a common practice for airlines to pay up the notice period. QR are probably worried about staff on notice spoiling the brand (or more worse any internal systems)
Brand? There are sooo many proofs that Deck crew have and It’s very common that it’ll come up on social media or anonymous email being sent to HR” This has happened and will happen in numbers..

[airbourne]

A330 fleet gone by end of February. Take from that what you will.

[FlyingAce77]

Thats more redundancies! I don’t think expat pilots will get a position on A350xwb meanwhile locals would be accommodated.

[airbourne]

Another bunch of 330 drivers got taken off the roster today.

[pfvspnf]

How is the Nigerian lady captain ? Still doing video on insta. ?

[FlyingAce77]

airbourne

Not surprising at all” Since Jan A330 were being leased return, More layoffs means more families are going to suffer” Heartbreaking” clearly there wasn’t a plan since day one!

[FlyingAce77]

pfvspnf

Good Question, Hmm? Track record of QR isn’t good, Use it & Throw it Policy” example is A350xwb Captain In QR who was a social media influencer portraying QR as a brand was laid off as well.

[lfbb]

This particular captain (as most show-offs on social media) was a lousy pilot with a track of some letters due to unstable approach and other misconducts... I don't think he is a good example of Use it & Throw it Policy... he had it coming.

[airbourne]

How about at his next job he concentrates on flying the aircraft instead of how many “likes” he gets on his pictures! Be nice to the FO’s as well!

[safelife]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/04/breakthrough-in-qatar-dispute-after-fruitful-talks-to-end-conflict

[Stallone]

lfbb

that's a surprise to hear..

thought he's got a gd record to be "upgraded" from 320 to 350

[light and variable]

QR axing CP Anus during these redundancies (after the promo video release) was a beautiful piece of one-upmanship for them. He was not a bad pilot although of course there was very much the potential to be a dangerous one.
Fact is he was wanted out so much even by senior management, long before the pandemic. Endless confidential reports filed against him and crew-control working hard because FOs were constantly calling in sick instead of flying with him.
He wangled his way back in once literally by way of Royal affiliation, much to the chagrin of the city shirts upstairs.
But in the end Rona won, Anus gone!

[lfbb]

Stallone

Letters eventually expire and you get the upgrade... aside from the whole selling goods using the company brand on his website, there was an unstable approach event during Air Maroc wet lease. Of course this could happen to anyone... but people picked on him because all the **** he keeps on posting portraying himself as a nice person to fly with when the truth is the absolute the opposite.

[tundrapilot]

I interacted with him when he was fo at G9, he was respectful at that time but I have also heard a story that he hit gently a first officer at qr. I was quite surprised. However, he might did it in a friendly way and he was misunderstood by the fo and ended up getting reported. If things were so bad for him at qr then how did he get a fleet transfer? Well it looks like it is all about connections in this company. So any news for more redundancies? Actually, they want to call it redundancy. It is termination and goodbye. I don't believe an organization like qr that has people in management who lack of basic civilization manners and values will ever call back the same pilots. Especially the 330 ones for example. Why they should bring them back and train them on a new type (as 330s will all be gone) when they can just recruit new type rated people ?.. they just say this kind of bull... so people feel better. Looking constantly for a job as no one has a stable and safe employment in this place. Only the local ones and as long as the "bread maker" is there all the pilots will be scared to enter the cockpit, do a small mistake and then get terminated because of "redundancy'
If passengers knew how much scared and sweaty their drivers are, I doubt they would even buy tickets with qr

[Count von Altibar]

He sounds like a total prat, wouldn't fancy sharing a cockpit with him hours on end. Seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to how the redundancies are made. I've read that the blockade may be about to be lifted and appears vaccines are imminent that's two bits of positive news for Qatar Airways.

[fatbus]

Return to pre covid Pax levels is years away. QR/EK/EY can pick and choose from the 1000's of disparate pilots when the need arises.

[FlyingAce77]

Count von Altibar

I really doubt QR will get its landing rights back in UAE and Saudi Arabia, The news is a hype and most probably Saudi Arabia will allow Over flights over his airspace & Americans are trying to cut off 100M $ of Iran in over flight charges that Qatar gives them yearly.

[TheGreenDragon]

I recently went to my online application for direct entry captain B777/A380. ( won’t say which airline) Surprisingly, It was still there . I reviewed & updated my application, and hit submit. Its was received.

Maybe there will be recruitment sooner than many think. I myself am out of work, and would suffer reduced salary than from my previous employer , to go year 1 pay in the middle east. But better than nowt

[NoodleDriver]

It has always been there, and clearly says all recruitment has stopped for the time being. It has for the last 9 months only taken expressions of interest. There is no news here.

[Count von Altibar]

Things are bleak for pilot recruitment until the world turns the page from this pandemic and the economies start to pick up again. The governments and the media have whipped this storm up and it's going to take time to recover the question is how long it'll take I guess nobody knows we'll have to wait and see. With respect to QR I guess they'll be taking back a lot of the people they made redundant first before any recruitment occurs there's bound to be some kind of return pool like most airlines seem to be establishing. Good luck to all, bad times to be an airline pilot no doubt.

[krismiler]

Local F/Os might get promoted before expat Captains are employed again. A foreign copilot with 2000 hrs might be preferred over an experienced wide body Captain when hiring resumes, as the airlines will first need to replace their nationals who are being upgraded.

Once they run out of upgradable F/Os they’ll need to look at DECs again.

[Papa_Golf]

I'm sure they can replace all fifteen of them in no time.

[krismiler]

This would also apply to other airlines which rely on expats. Whilst the foreigners are out of the way, they promote every local they can which would reduce the demand for Captains once things pick up again.

[fatbus]

How many cadets are being trained at the moment ? The longer the recovery takes the more time they (QR/EK/EY) have to produce new FO's.. if anything TRI/TRE's may be needed

[007busdriver]

I don't expect any recruitment before the end of 2021.. Maybe the would prepare for World Cup on 2022 and start allowing people in by the spring of 2022.

[Count von Altibar]

That's a good point the world cup might boost things for QR. We need some good news in the aviation world things are just so bleak at the moment I can see more airlines ceasing trading come the new year the way things are going, at least here in Europe anyhow.

[expata350]

what about the bus drivers 320 who had a block on a fleet transfer simulator issues, one year after OMG the got 350 as a gift instead 330 as it should be. Now the poor 330 guys are suffering and the lucky 320-350 is like nothing

[expata350]

he wasn't the husband of a socalmedia influencer "QA" @yezenianavarro INSTA, the other guy got a letter but because of her the letter was dismiss. Time to payback QA, otherwise the world is going to know the true.

[Silver68]

I understood none of the above..

[cabbages]

This is standard London parlance today.

[tundrapilot]

expata350

I think I got it. Some people who were on the 320 with blocked fleet transfers due to sim issues did not have any progress while someone with the same issues who had a wife with an ig account named above got a transfer from 320 to 350 because of his wife. His letters were thrown away too. Probably there is some more story on this :) . QR.. what a fair company...

[pfvspnf]

what is wife page on the gram ? I want the handle

[tundrapilot]

look 3 posts above, expata350 is giving you the info . He looks well informed

[tundrapilot]

So anyone knows if the redundancies for deck crew are over ? For cc for sure it is not if they want to reduce the number to 6-7 thousand but for pilots do we know ?
Are we going to have new rounds when the new year comes ? thanks

[FlyingAce77]

tundrapilot

Its fair then to DM this account & make them realize how unfair they have been to others?

[tundrapilot]

Glider

This is really unfair and shows zero respect for senior people who have served this company for so many years

[tundrapilot]

FlyingAce77

yes, it would be good to make them realize that but even if they do nothing will change. I think they already know how unfair they have been but they do not care. Standard QR culture

[FlyingAce77]

There is soo much unfair decision making that is happening as of now in QR that makes zero sense, Sunday’s at Tower 3 is a mess, it’s like a flow of lay offs come into the separation department, Cabin Crew literally fighting with the HR peeps there for their EOSB, Does the Chief know really what is happening across from his 9th floor Office? I really don’t think so, he seems clueless, maybe it’s time, he should know what is actually happening in his airline that he proudly talks about.

[GDAJB]

Of course he knows! Name a time when this orchestra has ever had another conductor?

[FlyingAce77]

Then he should just stop the Open Door Policy” Why to create a smoke screen when at first he will approve a Employee Memo & then HR will not entertain his decision in letter and spirit & play BS with the employee! Makes me believe now Everyone is playing Hand in Gloves”
A mess of a airline, Typical ME!

[Ticker1]

This is airline is a complete Mess and if we are expecting things to change we are dreaming, this people is incompetent.

[Ticker1]

Aviateur86

Well said.

[Xulu]

Join the club.

Nearby all the EPL 3, two-stripers were protected as they hadn’t been around long enough to accrue many sick days.

Then they flipped to seniority at the very end, protecting FOs held back from command.

The result? The worst cross section of pilots remain. Low experience, bad English and unmotivated poor performers.

And they are now the future of the company. They just could not have done it worse.

[5star]

I had to recheck the thread title just to be sure this was not EK....
Exactly EVERYTHING that has been described above, has taken place at EK....one would start to think they’re running the 2
airlines together....
Needless to say... spineless arabs with wasta at the top and some brown nosing expats in the office doing te dirty work...
well done...well done...
For those who got unlucky... there is light at the end of the tunnel...
And I’d rather become an uber driver than slaving again for these .....(word left out as to not get banned).
Semper Memento.

[GDAJB]

It is not all one sided. Spare a thought for the poor managers who won’t actually be able to fire anybody on Christmas day because it falls on a Friday this year!

[FlyingAce77]

These Managers along with Business Support “Ladies” would be drinking to their sorrows of covering up each other’s ****

[Flapsupbedsdown]

5star

Pretty sure that should they call you back tomorrow, the day afyer you'll be in doha🤣

[Ticker1]

The reason why it looks so much like EK is because QR wants to be EK they dream to be EK but they will never be they will always live under the shadow of EK, just a clear example look at our management in Flight ops they used to be EK so all the trash that EK throw in the garbage bin QR goes and Immediately picks them up because they want to know whats happening at EK they want to be EK so badly.

[tundrapilot]

Agree, they will never be EK and they will never manage to make Doha look like Dubai..

[Aviateur86]

That's exactly the point, how can you explain this to incompetent managers ? You just can't.

[Aviateur86]

Xulu

You couldn't say it better, This is exactly what happened and the future doesn't look brite for them. Low experience, bad english and poor performance have been the cause of many ATC reports in UK and USA, what a shame and to make it worst, they terminated the experienced guys in bulk.

[Papa_Golf]

Why they Let these pilots go and basically keep pilots who literally worked 2-3 monthes for the company.....?

Maybe because QR is one the most badly run organizations on the planet?

Maybe because the offices in T1 T2 and T3 (and the upper floor of QROC too) are almost entirely occupied by incompetent and spineless individuals?

Maybe because after 10 months into the pandemic there's no plan, no direction and no leadership whatsoever shown by the pastry chef?

[Birdy1062]

Why they Let these pilots go and basically keep pilots who literally worked 2-3 monthes for the company.....?

Probably because they’re cheaper.
Plain and simple .....

[j.nips]

Also could be training costs being factored in and recent joiners haven't worked enough yet to justify letting them go?

[FlyingAce77]

Birdy1062

Compromise Safety and Experience with saving $$$$$, it’s plain and simple!

[Papa_Golf]

Company Loss of license insurance is gone too.

What a joke

[007busdriver]

Recently I've been hearing rumors about they'll call back by the beginning of next fall. Anyone heard that too?

[Xulu]

While I expect most to begrudgingly return for licenses/recency, I can imagine many families staying at home this time.

Who wants to go through all this hassle twice again (there and back)?

With the family away, and commuting barely feasible - the horizon shrinks.

The company have burnt bridges. If they had chosen to look after their employees through covid, they would have earned so much respect, loyalty and good will.

Instead, when the industry picks up, churn rate will be huge as people enact their revenge; taking their turn to gleefully stick two fingers up at them.

People are hurt. People want closure on their terms, not the companies.

The ME just wont ever feel like home again.

[FlyingAce77]

I totally agree with you
It is the final nail in the coffin
Bridges have burnt
its matter of time before people start leaving
This is not how Airlines look after their employees, but honestly it is not surprising either.
I predict lots of safety issues now
Lots of ASR be raised
Middle East is not the home anymore!

[007busdriver]

Apparently the idea of "we are a big airline we can always find someone to work for us in our terms" is not gonna work anymore for them..
Obviously they will find people to work for them but only the low qualified desperate ones instead the best..
As a matter of fact may God forbid the safety of operations..

[alatriste]

Just let me tell all of you something: If QR ever call me back most probably I will rejoin. I would like to resume my career and I bet that QR future T&C will be better than the average. Humbly I don´t think I am underqualified or desperate. (21K flight hours, wide body experience, 32 years in the business, no mortgage, some savings, no ex-wifes and grown up children)
The experience was painful for me, now unemployed, but QR is not an NGO. Exit process was not easy, HR Separation was clearly overwhelmed. Everybody left with the owe money. - my previous employer sent home all expats in April with zero compensation no matter the seniority (up to 20 years)-
I joined in 2019, company invested big money in my training and months later I had to leave the company. I was a very cheap Captain and I was fired because somehow the company respect the seniority -as it should be- all guys with less than a year were sent home.
It is crystal clear for me that nowadays we are pilots flying for XXXX airline NOT XXXX pilots anymore. We better change our minds.
Those that disagree, please skip to criticize my English. It is quite normal to be a competent pilot without a level 6 while you can find native English speakers that do not perform that well.

[fatbus]

Better T&C's ? Dream on mate !

[alatriste]

I meant better THAN average not better than before. But it is only my bet.

[Papa_Golf]

alatriste

All correct bar the "seniority being respected" thing.

[FlyingAce77]

alatriste

Seniority was never respected, it was a perfect opportunity for the managers to take out their grudge on Pilots they didn’t liked, & Kept the ones they wanted.. Plain & Simple!

[tundrapilot]

Dear Alatriste, seniority was not respected. Are you aware that fos who joined on the 787 a year ago are still flying? with minimum experience and qualifications especially compared to your experience. Please make good research before posting here. I don't think they care at all. Middle East will not be home again for all of us because nobody will feel safe here. I still have my job but trying to leave asap because I might be included in one of the new rounds with redundancies as I am sure they will do more starting next year. Better go somewhere that is safe in terms of job security rather than make a bit more money and live every day at risk. QR was not a safe employer even before the covid19. I wish all people realize that in the future. It is a shame for an airline that belongs to the richest country to treat their employees like that. I was talking with a friend recently on the other side of the ocean. Even cheap regional airlines at the US have not made any redundancies so far. It is a shame for QR and for the people who committed to come here and serve them. There were many solutions but they didn't care at all. Just press the button with your number and you are out. zero respect to your age and experience

[alatriste]

Dear colleagues,
I only wanted to emphasize that generally speaking they didn´t keep the new captains, even though we were the cheapest ones, as some previous post affirmed.
My sympathy for those not fairly treated.
All the best in these turbulent times.

[ATCNOW]

Air traffic controllers were treated the same as crews in Qatar. Many of them were made redundant independent of seniority, it was randomly done. No explanation at all. Very sad times.

[Newcomer2]

Another wave 😔
Pilots getting the call this morning...

[FlyingAce77]

Totally predictable! This is never ending, letting go of staff in installments..
Brace for impact!
Bags are packed.

[Count von Altibar]

They should at least put pilots on a retainer salary and let them return to their home country for a time when things pick up which will surely come. Seems a waste to just make guys redundant and all the bitterness that entails.

[FlyingAce77]

This would have had been a logical solution but Logic is missing in every decision that has been taken since March 2020.

[fatbus]

How many have been made redundant?

[Silver68]

Not too sure how many.... but a fair few that I know of. Mainly 787, but i believe some 777 too.

[Ticker1]

Some A350 guys aswell.

[Ticker1]

FlyingAce77

Logic requires Brain something thats is missing in QR.

[airbourne]

Ticker1

I feel sorry for the 350 guys......you know apart from one particular one!!!!!! :)

[airbourne]

Bridges have been burnt etc etc!!!

IF someone was offering me my old job back, I wouldn't care! I would be gone and take it tomorrow.

I would think that plenty of others would too!

[Neektu]

FlyingAce77

The word “logic” is non-existent in the ME dictionaires

[FlyingAce77]

I feel sorry for the 350 guys......you know apart from one particular one!!!!!! :)

That particular one has to go!

[FlyingAce77]

Incident is bound to happen, this is writing on the wall, These dumb fools are playing with fire, experience is what is important in the end.

[tonker]

Friend of mine, relatively new 787 FO given the bad news this morning. At least he got to miss Xmas and New Year’s Eve!

Watching the airframes aloft, when I got the push it was zero and today it averages about 17 airborne. Give it 6 months of vaccine and together with the World Cup it doesn’t make sense.

[FlyingAce77]

Really sorry to hear about your Friend & All the other colleagues, it doesn’t make sense at all, vaccination has started already, I really don’t understand what are these managers and management doing in Tower 1 2 3.
They had no plan whatsoever from the start of border closures uptil now.

[tundrapilot]

My humble opinion is that the vaccine will not bring things back to normal very fast and for the World Cup we don't even know if it is going to take place the same way it would without the pandemic.

They did not even respect new year's Eve. At least they could have waited for early January to start their new termination rounds and let people enjoy the following days but there are no feelings or basic civilization in this company.
Do they want to bring down the numbers to EK numbers? Does this mean a total of 2200 approximately? Is that true? Does anyone know? A friend of mine who got redundant in November told me he heard at the old technical building from other pilots that they wanted to lay off another 700 deck crews

[Skyfl410]

I found out that the BBC wants some info on what is going on in QR, regarding cutbacks and concerns, they need pilots/crew to share some experiences. Does anyone know anything about it?

Maybe something is moving ......

[FlyingAce77]

There will be many who would want to share their experience ...

[Skyfl410]

they just need to check PPRUNE :)

[Python27]

The reason that many are scared to share will be vanished soon from the Earth =)

[tonker]

And to cap it all from my previous post, I spoke to an Airbus rated friend tonight who’s been flying max duty hours.

[Bigaircolibri]

Accident or incident is coming to a close call now.
I know of one skipper who warned the flight safety dept about some flight safety issue, the lack of flight safety consideration from the operational side.... Instead of looking into the problem, they (Fleet) found a way to make him redundant...
Is the Baker aware of this?
If the BBC channel want some, they should look into the flight safety side.
How many times I had to raise my voice about safety concerns... And it is getting worse now!
By the way, no more Loss of licence means no more long term sick leaves!

[FlyingAce77]

One thing is certain that Airline has gone out of control of the Chief, he knows everything and does nothing, This is very dangerous in short and long term.

[tundrapilot]

I do not think that the chief cares much anymore. Perhaps you will see him soon or late throwing in the towel. If there was a different chief things would have been much better now. He treats though the redundant people with compassion as he mentioned while having some dirty clerks at tower 3 picking their noses in the offices while serving the ex crews. He is very compassionate. In my opinion with that thin voice and the strange nose, all he wants is to be a ruler and not a chief. A proper chief cares about people and does not want them to be scared and when the time for redundancy comes it's the right moment to prove that you are a competent and a proper chief and handle the situation with fairness, respect people's seniority and experience or find much more efficient solutions.. Perhaps take an example from some low-cost airlines who have not made redundant anyone so far... especially when you have unlimited funds. what a shame.. Can you imagine a westerner being at his position? We would have never had so many scared pilots neither even curfews for poor cc's. Everything would have been much better. At this moment the airline is at the "point of no return" ... and I agree with Bigaircolibri. Have heard a similar story

[FlyingAce77]

Another Unstable approach, captain had to intervene and Captain had to write a report, now the captain is more worried about reporting then the First officer only because He is connected” & He is 400hrs on the Type!
disaster is very close to happen
and very soon, What are they doing? I’m not letting my family travel through QR, They can fly Turkish or Air Canada even if this means transiting through Istanbul or Toronto but No to QR...

[Aviateur86]

Roughly 10 years ago Qatar Airways was the worst airline in the middle east, worst conditions, worst pilots (mainly pilots rejected from Ek, Ey and other serious Airlines because of their higher standards for recruitment), basically was the last choice for real professional pilots, then, thanks to the improved T&C more pilots with higher standards joined (unlike the cheap ones that they prefer, some even with shady captain upgrades ) and it seemed that qr was going in the right direction until summer 2020, where they made redundant most of the quality guys they had, a huge mistake that brings the company back to level zero where it belongs. I don't know if this bad choice was made by AB or by those "below average" pilots that seat in the management offices, in any case it was a huge and unnecessary error that will have serious consequences. Be prepared to enjoy that amazing level 6 english in the skies that only qatar can offer and wait for the tons of reports from the FAA when they'll try to send their 'Chuck Yeager' pilots to US during winter.
When I think about the inexperienced and pathetic guys sitting in the Airbus and Boeing fleet offices, I get goose bumps, who on earth would select such pilots for a delicate position like that ? AB are you alive ? Wake up, you're going in the wrong direction.
Emirates in the mean time is recalling some pilots back, that's a good sign.

[FlyingAce77]

This is practically happening all over QR, In every department, It’s a Mafia that has sick people in HR who protect them, They are playing with Lives of Employees and Passengers, Mark my words, If 1 Serious incident happens and Breaking News starts to come on international media, QR goes down the drain, it will be very hard for them to gain the momentum, AB is busy doing what he does the best, Rule” and QR focus is on Marketing, If only Passengers would know, there is risk involved with QR flying, a risk that can cost lives.

[FlyingAce77]

What is with the Housing Email today?
should we expect Education allowance to be next?
well we can expect anything from QR now..

[airbus350captain1]

What happened with the housing allowance?

[Python27]

airbus350captain1

You should know that captain...

[tundrapilot]

xwind16, why are you so sure that people who write here have not worked or still work for this flying circus? how can you bet your salary? 75 %. PM if you want so I can prove to you who works here but be prepared to lose your bet and give me the 75% you just offered. Please if you do not like the honest truth that you read above go and post somewhere else. What is discussed above is just the reality

[FlyingAce77]

HR is all involved in this madness of unfair layoffs, I can name 1 manager who is in HR and is involved in all the dirty work for the Department, Actually it’s 2 P & J. I have no hope from HR, yes there are and will be honest and fair people but so far in my 11yrs in the Pit there is none I could point to and say were fair.

[Silver68]

Glider7,

Do yourself a favour and just shut up. Some people who were indeed locked out of Qatar have returned to work, so :mad: what?. Many, however, have been terminated: I am one of those. So before you spout off with half truths, check your facts and be more considerate to your colleagues.

[Aviateur86]

xwind16 is a troll, he's not a pilot, he works for the company and he's desperately trying to defend this bunch of incompetent people, facts are that:
Qatar is managed by people that are sitting on a chair because of wasta system, they are not real professional.
QR HR is something similar to North Korea, they spy on employees, they managed to fire people because they were part of a whatsapp group but spared some on that list because they provide insider info like spies thus were promoted to another fleet.
Not everyone but most of the pilots are below standard, they come from defunct blacklisted companies, the rest are the ones rejected from emirates and so on.
Qatar airways was going in the right direction until may 2020, now is going in the wrong direction, most probably it'll become again the last choice for pilots, once the situation improves pilots will again chose better places.
I've witnessed myself the average level of the pilots and the only reason incidents or accidents don't happen is because of the technology of the airplanes, nothing else.
It's a shame because they have great airplanes and a great geographic location, all thrown away because of their attitude and wrong choices.
I've seen top pilots, instructors and examiners fired for no reason, I find it self destructing, what to do ? Choices and wrong choices have consequences

[FlyingAce77]

Cant agree more with your assessment, QR is headed in the wrong direction, Technical department is short on mechanics & QAS doesn’t have enough Ground Staff to serve the Few Pax that are transiting through HIA.. The mafia sitting in Tower 1,2,3 & QROC including Business support and Technical are to be blamed for all what has happened to the Airline Post March 2020, The brand has just crashed,They Can Market QR as much as they want but reality is “Safety” has been compromised by below average Pilots & Managers & VPs sitting on top and pushing the buttons, they will pay for what they have done!