Qatar salary reductions and redundancies 😬

[Jack330]

Aviateur86

Couldn’t agree more..

[fatbus]

The mafia ( not Italian, look east) well and truly still functioning!

[Python27]

xwind16

Won't be missed. mysalami!

[WrldWide]

I think it would be useful for any of us that have experienced QR to consider the staff number as more of a serial number. Everyone is simply a device used to keep the machinery in motion. Remove your emotional element, ie: loyalty, etc, and maybe things will make more sense to you. Some tyres on the aircraft get retreaded and some don't. Some brakes get overhauled, some do not. You get the idea, everyone is just a unit part in the machine.

[Skyfl410]

I Just Wanted to Say three simple words to all Qr Crew who are still working and those made redundant.



HAPPY NEW YEAR!!



PS Qr finds it hard to send this simple message to there employees

[QatarBoy]

Don’t be surprised if there’s a serious incident before 2022 - perverse standards (if any) in training and no oversight from the authorities!

[fatbus]

Why 2022? Unfortunately bean counters and fleet deal only with stats . Let's wait and see if it happens according to your pilot prediction.

[FlyingAce77]

Id say 2021, It’s imminent unfortunately!

[FlyingOW]

Silver68 & xwind16,

Sorry to see you go gentlemen. It may be of little comfort but at least you won’t have to share the FD with this bunch.

Wishing you a prosperous 2021. Blue skies and tailwinds skippers. Hope they call you back when things pick up.

[FlyingAce77]

A Crew mentioned that Customers are complaining and angry onboard.. A Awful Experience! Flights that are being cancelled or Misconnection pax are stuck at the airport for 8-15hrs as airport hotel is full and borders are closed.. Ground staff is nonexistent because majority have been laid off as well..
A airline that markets itself as flying all through out the pandemic is now even losing its “Precious Customers”..

[hafiz86]

heard from my friend in doha, he got called last thursday and given termination letter. he was on 777.
its really sad whats happening in the aviation circle in 2021. he says more termination is coming on 350/777 as the pax load is so low and qr is also losing money big time.
whats is more sad is that, only early december he was told that his employment will not be affected but 3 weeks down the line its a diff story.

[FlyingAce77]

I am sooo sorry for your friend and all that are going through this, Every day I’m mentally prepared to leave when my turn comes, what’s more depressing is that there is no clear communication by The Managers of Incompetent HR...
Ofcourse QR is losing money only because Chief is stubborn and keeps on opening new Routes EG SFO & Soon Seattle with Pax numbers no more that 100 at an average, A350 or B777 both will fly under load meaning Per seat profit is Nil, this all is happening only because they want to Market as the leading airline in Pandemic..

[tundrapilot]

I am also sorry about your friend. That is a good lesson for all of us. Never believe or count on what those unreliable crooks say. It is quite fun to see empty airplanes flying overseas just because of "ego" while losing tons of money instead of treating the correct way people with families who proved through the times that they were their working horses here. But they don't care and never will

[QRAviator]

Redundancies are ongoing. Some 320 FOs got the calls just yesterday. There is no end in sight.

[tundrapilot]

They might continue on all fleets until they drop the numbers same as EK did

[Saudia330]

What about 330 fleet? Any news?

[007busdriver]

As far as I heard they keep firing people nowadays..

[Papa_Golf]

Is there a 330 fleet still?

[msian1147]

I guess not. All the trip reports are out except for the 330’s

[airbourne]

What about 330 fleet? Any news?

A load of 330 guys were dumped before Xmas. There was only 4 330 freighters left after the pax was grounded.

The 4 freighters are supposed to be leaving the fleet in February regardless as they have a new home.

[Saudia330]

What about 330 pilots? Fleet change?

[krismiler]

Half of the A380 fleet to be permanently retired.

https://simpleflying.com/qatar-airbus-a380-fleet-retirement/

[airbourne]

What about 330 pilots? Fleet change?

Why bother? Cheaper to sack pilots!

[casablanca]

unfortunately that seems to be the truth

[Aviateur86]

Fleet change in QR is usually given to spies as a gift for being coward enough to report other colleagues and of course to friends, without any consideration on meritocracy.

[flyfor]

When can we expect to be called back from "redundancy", having 25% "solidarity pay" returned and switching back to Allianz Insurance? Asking for a friend.

[Python27]

Tell your "friend" : 30th of February. Will be included in the package a real "no blame policy" and "just culture".

[Nicosia]

flyfor

i llke the sense of humour.What part of QDC (the only booze shop in Qatar, for those eligible) did he visit beforehand. The erosion to pay and conditions will continue.A buddy sent me a WhatsApp to say he just resigned ,last few days, and had 90 days to go.Next day he sent another Whatsapp, 89 days to go.Asked why?, he said “ i have had enough”. He has no job to go to.There must be more, in the same position. Sad 😢 news

[flyfor]

For those of us, who were regretfully informed that our service with the company is no longer required and THEY wish us all the best for our future endeavors, I would like to say "take it lightly".
Life goes beyond the sand box. When Arabs wake up with shortage of pilots, the rest of the World will be on race to hire everyone of us who where unwanted here.
There is a light at the end of this tunnel. While I am packing, I still visit to QDC, but after I leave, I will close the door and I never look back.
They fired me once, I will not give them the second satisfaction.

[Aviateur86]

Speaking of 'quality', last month they had, together with many many other issues, a stick shaker during climb out on a 777, this is what you get when you let monkeys play with sophisticated toys, good luck with that.
Right after I joined, during my double crew flights, I saw that a good 50% of the Captains was inadequate for that type of operations, poor standard, poor airmanship, poor skills and guess what ? Poor english. They started hiring quality guys since 2018 then, with poor judgement, they made them redundant and even worst, among them, some of the best instructors they had with 10/15 years seniority; Poor management, poor manpower.
I wonder what is AB doing sitting on his chair, letting those incompetent ruin the Company.

[007busdriver]

I do really wish good luck with that to them since they need a lot..

[NoodleDriver]

Letters went out today releasing many of us who were in the onboarding process a year ago.

​​​​​Many of us had resigned our present jobs only days later to be told courses cancelled.

We are all victims in this... I refuse to point fingers but it's another sad example of the brutality of this industry that I have such a love hate relationship with.

A ten second email to change the life of a family forever.

Good luck everyone, all we have is our word and compassion to each other, bc the companies of the world have none of it.

[tundrapilot]

Dear Captain777x,

First of all thank you for posting that stick shaker issues have also occurred in the past. I was not aware of it. However it is good you mentioned here so I will never send again my family to board a QR airplane.

Aviateur86 didn’t say anything wrong. He just exposed the reality.

I personally know people who came here with an English level 4 and when the time for their re testing came, they failed. Company gave them a second chance to manage a Level 4 and they continued flying. In addition to that they would complain. As far as you say those people speak many languages I doubt if apart from their poor English they can even speak properly their native languages. Both of them that I know they still fly while great people who were much more qualified have left.

You mention that the dangerous ones are spotted with time and kicked out .. Do you work at QR ? You should know that pilots who were involved in very serious events still fly. I know with details serious mishaps that have taken place and they did not get fired either because of their nationality or because one of them was friend with …If you want details and names I can pm.
So why are you being aggressive and with such an attitude when other people just reveal the truth ? Nothing is wrong with that. All the people who read this forum know what is going on with this flying circus.

[Fired600]

Dear Captain777x,

First of all thank you for posting that stick shaker issues have also occurred in the past. I was not aware of it. However it is good you mentioned here so I will never send again my family to board a QR airplane.


A stick shaker event isn’t the end of the world and could have had many causes, its how it is dealt with thats important. Without the context its only half the story.

[tundrapilot]

Fired600, I agree with you as long as it does not happen often, if it happens often then it starts becoming a concern
The problem is that much more serious mishaps have happened here and those people still fly .....
and the will fly .. and fly... and fly....
I even know people who couldn't understand company ACNs because of their English and they are still here while decent British guys have left. (I am not British)
So what Captain777x wrote is out of any reality..

[fatbus]

EK is no different! Depending on nationality/ 3rd floor connections some very serious incidents were " dealt with " and many weak pilots still flying . Technology has kept many aircraft from crashing despite some clowns doing there best to put it in the ground .

[Aviateur86]

Poor captain x, with your "I'm new here" profile, desperately trying to be wise without success.
Apart from the part where you say that events occur, which is correct, the rest is already answered by you with " The way events are dealt with". Who am I to judge ? Nobody. Who am I to express my opinion ? A professional pilot with a capital P and no, I don't compare myself with the average QR pilot, no thank you.
I don't judge, I observe, sometimes from behind, in the sim and on board and I can tell you that what I see is not what is meant to be, not in a Company that big. I saw Captains messing up a simple star flown with VNAV, landing with no charts in view and many other "pearls" that are absolutely not acceptable, well, those champions are still there and others are gone for no reason, if this was my company I would've chosen the others with due respect but, as you well know, having friends or being a spy offers advantages.
We all know that pilots come from different nationalities, backgrounds, training and experience, this doesn't justify poor airmanship or poor skills and if those guys speak "at least one more language more than me" as you say, they're still dangerous and please help us understand, what are they supposed to do with those extra languages ? Tell us, we are curious.
At the end of the day Qatar made amazing instructors and pilot redundant and, as far as I know, kept many below average on board.I am not talking about everyone of course, I've also seen very professional pilots there but a big part of the others are a mess to the point that I wouldn't let my family fly with them, especially in demanding situations. What saves the day, as many already pointed out, is technology, that makes those airplanes "monkey proof".
Qatar will go back to what it was, the last choice in the region
All the best Captain X

[airbourne]

Poor captain x, with your "I'm new here" profile, desperately trying to be wise without success.

You have 14 posts and registered in October 2020.

Not exactly a beacon for reliability yourself!

[Papa_Golf]

Since it's a rumor network, I've heard that if QR will ever call back anyone they'll offer roughly half of the previous salary, no LOL, and an even skimpier health insurance than the current Al Koot.

I wonder who would go back: I personally know a few guys still there ready to jump ship with no job prospect back home.

[FlyTCI]

A friend of mine is doing the same, the desert isn’t worth it to him anymore. He leaves in about a month with no flying job to go to.

[FlyingAce77]

Papa_Golf

Its already started with Aircraft Mechanics, the ones you were laid off couple of months ago are coming back with 50% less basic salary than they were offered...
And Yes I do agree that Pilots are ready to jump the ship even if they don’t have jobs to go too..
Sandpit is not the same anymore.

[flyfor]

Can it go lower than Al Koot?

[Python27]

Yep, can get down similar as EK medical "benefit". But in the other hand, EK doesn't have the same toxic environment (in sandpit terms of course ), crappy salary (considering the "solidarity" of the expats) nor the pleasure of living in mini-riyadh.

[Ticker1]

airbourne

Beleive me everything that Aviateur86 had said is exactly reliable and i am telling you because i work in QR i don’t even post anymore because i will be repeating the same as Aviateur86 and Glider 7 So there is no point for me to repeat the post all over again.

Plus is true i know personally two guys very low performance pilots that were safe by one management. Everything that is written here is not even rumors is the reality of this company very sad but true, as someone said when everything pick up again many will leave including myself.

[Aviateur86]

airbourne

True, this profile is quite new, was created because of serious privacy concerns due to the QR regime, yet, 100 times more reliable than mister captainx, what I say is the truth, I'm still here and I see horrible things

[FlyingAce77]

Ticker1

Ditto! Whatever Aviateur86 has said is exactly what is happening... 11yrs & counting in QR!

[savi]

Al Baker changes tone: Qatar Airways to continue taking aircraft

The Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Akbar Al Baker has seemingly changed his tone in regards to aircraft orders, as the airline will continue to take aircraft, according to a recently released statement by the CEO.

“We will continue to take every single airplane that we have ordered from the both [Airbus and Boeing – ed. note] manufacturers because in Qatar Airways, we are very prudent in the way we place our aircraft orders and our requirements,“ was quoted as saying on a message on the airline‘s Twitter.

... what about pilots?

[fatbus]

Increased rate of retirements.

[Ticker1]

11yrs & counting in QR!

hahaha! I know what you mean..

[Python27]

Who else is keen to move the family out of the pearl...? :8

[lfbb]

What is this new Covid Cost Mitigating Measures about?

[007busdriver]

The new ways to reduce salary? :P

[FlyingAce77]

100% Yes, irony is Top Management is still heavy, New VPs are being hired, Extra managers are not being let go but accommodated and Emails start coming to US with Covid Cost Cutting measures Etc Etc.
i guess all the Goodwill is required from the Flight deck Cabin Crew & Aircraft Engineers & not the Top Management Staff..

[FlyingAce77]

Python27

Pearl as in the Sandpit or as in the “The Pearl? “

[casablanca]

Seems to be latest move....people will be forced back into company accommodation.

[jacekgfly]

Looks like the A330 fleet will disappear. Majority of the A330 pilots got TBN on the roster yesterday :(

[FlyingAce77]

Seems like Tower 3 will be crowded once again.. Sad times :(

[Saudia330]

Sad times. Hope most of them will be move to 350.

[Count von Altibar]

Is TBN a guarentee of upcoming redundancy then?

[FlyingAce77]

Logically Yes it is unfortunately... This is just my gut feeling....
Some might switch to A350 but again one can’t predict...

[CDRW]

A senior B777 Capt also got TBN...

[FlyingAce77]

Why am I not surprised? Again “Senior” there are so many Senior Capts who got laid off :(

[mes4x]

Guys I am one of the lucky ones to be called today for fleet/ hr briefing after a few years in the outfit.
And yes TBN means redundancy.

[tundrapilot]

Sorry to hear mes4x. what fleet if you don't mind ? as for the transfers for the 330 guys to 350 I don't think it is very easy if you are not a local. Have heard also that many 350 captains were gone last year so that is not a positive sign for fleet transfers. It is a shame guys, some low cost airlines around the world have not even terminated one person

[007busdriver]

Agree.
This is a shame for “The Best Airline of the World” and also one of the richest Countries in the World..

[FlyingAce77]

The 5* Airline that is more focused on Marketing than on its own Employees Wellness & Well-being”

[airbus350captain1]

It's all about Union. We don't really care about our colleges; whoever stays there think there were qualified than the other ex flight crews.
They could have cut 50% salary and keep everyone. Your staff number is just a number, and if you don't have a connection to the Top-level, you will be dismissed at some point. It is really stressed full to work for a company that you don't even know if your schedules will be set to TBN after each flight. Modern Slavery in 2021.

[777kicker]

TBN means redundancy since August 2020. Not much else to hope, not much to fuss about. The wobbly geniuses are at it again and their plan is so appealing to the white wooden heads that results are under everyone's eyes to wonder. You all have my deepest sympathy but :mad: is hitting the fan all over the world, reconfigure, replan and execute like you have been doing before, there’s not much else to do.

[airbourne]

Sad times. Hope most of them will be move to 350.

Still banging that drum my friend. Its not going to happen. Plenty of 350 drivers let go. But sure, just convert the 330 guys.........

[airbourne]

airbourne

Beleive me everything that Aviateur86 had said is exactly reliable and i am telling you because i work in QR i don’t even post anymore because i will be repeating the same as Aviateur86 and Glider 7 So there is no point for me to repeat the post all over again.

Plus is true i know personally two guys very low performance pilots that were safe by one management. Everything that is written here is not even rumors is the reality of this company very sad but true, as someone said when everything pick up again many will leave including myself.


On further investigation it seems you are quite correct!

[FlyingAce77]

One thing that blows my mind is Opening New Sectors like SFO & Seattle, & When you check the flight loads 180-200 Under load, QR is not even doing break even on these sectors & many others per seat, the only logical reason I get is “It’s the Ego & Stubborn Attitude” that will cost QR big time very soon if not later...
QR can easily save money by flying on viable sectors for the time being, but Keep Laying off Deck Crew Cabin Crew & Engineers yet keep expanding..

[FlyingAce77]

airbus350captain1

I know cases in which Chief Approved Extension of Employment for Employees & they were let go as well because of “Dirty HR” & Section Management”
Have you ever heard of A VP being demoted to accommodate him only because a New SVP was Hired few months back? this has happened!

[Bigaircolibri]

All what was said before is teue, remember that guy who posted his message saying "Habibi said", I have read again what he was saying and have to say it has all happened.

Still few more 777 skippers being fire.
Zapattero (I have changed his name) was removed from his positiin probably because of his dirty game, but what about his (ex) boss?

Yet, QR management prefers to keep the low perdormance guy and take the risk of having an incident, or worse an accident. This will happen, "habibi" didn't say it, but treating pilots the way they do now, fatigue on top of low perdormance, imagine what can that leads to!

[Saudia330]

Shame on them.

[tundrapilot]

It is a shame, I hope in the future people will consider what happened here and treat this dumpster accordingly,

[FlyingAce77]

I highly doubt they would” All the Fancy lifestyle dreams, Brunches, Business class travel,I highly highly doubt it... 😝

[airbus350captain1]

There is a safety issue on each flight because they do not know if they will be terminated after landing. Imagine in the critical landing phase; You also have to think about TBN(To be Noticed) on your phone after landing. They don't even change your schedule on your days off. It's always happing after you return from home from a long-haul flight.

[airbourne]

Pilot community shall never forgive what they did to their pilots..

I have never heard such rubbish in all my life. Granted it is terrible what has happened many a great pilot over the course of the last year. Not just QR but lots of airlines.

As for being unforgiving, thats crap!!! If there is some senior 777 Captain who has a chance of flying right seat of an ATR for a commuter airline they will bite their hands off just to get back flying and see out whatever is left of their career.

All these same guys who sneered, laughed and looked down on the LCC"s will do anything to get a job when the time comes.

Finally with the amount of available pilots versus jobs in airlines the T&C's will be further eroded but there will be no shortage and they know this.

[tundrapilot]

n77, nice post, I disagree that pilot community will never forgive what they did to other pilots because you will find plenty who will be willing to fly like monkeys for QR. but as far for the rest I totally agree, excellent post

What happened to the guy who was saying "Habibi told me..." ? I agree his information were pretty accurate

[Aviateur86]

Loyalty and dedication are the core values of any employee, values that make a Company great, well, in qatar airways being loyal and helpful can make you redundant. I guess you all know what happened to the A330 pilots, intructors and examiners (except a few LUCKY ones who managed to escape this and were promoted), all redundant, redundancy based on FLEET, not seniority. Some of them could've changed fleet some time ago but were asked to please STAY in order to help the company in the phase out, congratulations qatar airways, another dirty trick to your loyal pilots who helped until the last day.
Maybe people will forget if offered to rejoin but trust me, if other opportunities will come up, and before or later it will happen, qatar will be the last desperate choice as it was before, only the rejected ones will join that unprofessional company managed by cheap bosses (not leaders).
I've witnessed many events in my life, many aviation crisis but what I saw here is absolutely the worst, loyal guys fired with no explanations, pilots, intructors and examiners with 12 years seniority fired because they were part of whatsapp groups, people spying and reporting colleagues just to get upgraded, this is simply disgusting.
Just wait and see when the covid crisis will end, the chief wants to receive every single airplane he ordered just because emirates said something but who will fly them ? Pilots are already flying 100 hours + and at the same time totally stressed to the limit.
Smart pilots make smart choices, once you betray them, unless they're desperate, they won't come back unless you PAY WELL otherwise you get the monkeys, same as the majority we saw there (with respect of the great guys still employed).
The quality of a workplace is PARAMOUNT, loyal and dedicated employees are to be respected because they're the one who help you being profitable and are the key to productivity and customer satisfaction.

[mes4x]

Well said👍

[xixab]

How QR has treated their loyal and dedicated employees since the start of this pandemic is a total disaster...

Those still onboard are all being fooled by the worst possible management a crew would ever have to deal with in an entire career, taking advantage of the situation since day one, using the pandemic as an excuse for any decision taken.

That so called "solidarity plan" is a complete hoax, redundancies have never been minimized!

No transparency, only empty words once in a while to make everyone believe that there is still some sort of recognition and respect, and then bad news affecting many almost every week since all this started.

Stress, anxiety, fatigue, motivation and anger levels are at their worst possible... flying here is not safe nowadays.

Anyone who can afford it should leave this toxic environment, and those who can't as soon as opportunities arise, hopefully very soon.

Time has now come to let this airline sink on it's own along with anyone who can accept being treated this way, and of course with all their remaining beloved puppets, spies, traitors and monkeys.

[krismiler]

The remaining A330 freighters to be retired.

https://www.stattimes.com/news/qatar-airways-cargo-retires-all-remaining-four-a330-freighters-from-its-fleet-air-cargo/

[fatbus]

It should be noted that additional 777 freighters are being added . Unfortunate for A good for B.

[airbus350captain1]

They could have wet-lease those A330 freighter to other companies as cargo demand is high hence elimanting the option of laying off more pilots.

[Aviateur86]

That could've been a good plan, good plans require a brain so that's a no go.

[Stallone]

u care for the pilots

The problem is they don't care. So I doubt they will spare any effort for extra work.

[Flying Clog]

Brains are in short supply in our sphere of management operations. But then you all knew that when you arrived, and took a punt. So no excuses.

[STN Ramp Rat]

I might be putting two and two together and getting five but ...................

https://www.aviation24.be/airports/liege/air-belgium-to-launch-full-cargo-flights-with-four-freighter-planes-based-at-liege-airport/

[FlyingAce77]

More layoffs to happen
so far 11K have been laid off
As per Chief in the recent interview..

[tundrapilot]

when they are done hopefully they will send a common email and explain that redundancies will not be continued. It will give some sanity and help fly the machines a bit more relaxed.

[Skyfl410]

FlyingAce77

https://www.dohanews.co/qatar-airways-more-cuts-expected-but-we-will-hire-again/

[tundrapilot]

Correct, after they fire another 3500 people approximately on all departments (he said another 5%) they will start rehiring, So after they paid senior pilots tons of money for end of benefits plus 3 month notice plus 3 months accommodation allowance for those who were out of company's, then they will rehire them again. I don't believe a word of what he says. Probably they will rehire just a few (After some years) and then claim and say we have started hiring the ones we laid off , Lol

[tundrapilot]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-04/when-will-covid-pandemic-end-near-me-vaccine-coverage-calculator?srnd=premium-europe

[Ticker1]

Probably they will rehire just a few (After some years) and then claim and say we have started hiring the ones we laid off , Lol

Sounds about right

[007busdriver]

I think they will re-hire eventually but not for 330 fleet , most probably 350/777/787 fleets..

[Flapsupbedsdown]

Possibly at much less pay

[captain.weird]

007busdriver

When would you guys think?

[Saudia330]

50% wage than redundants pilots.

[pfvspnf]

how much they pay you when you’re fired ?

[tundrapilot]

captain.weird

They still have not fired another 3500 people from all departments. They recently announced they have fired 15% and they will go up to 20%. After they stop terminations (and don't call it redundancy). Let's call it termination because this fits better on what they do. So after they stop I would guess at least over a year or 2 to start re-hiring again . They pay you 3 months salary plus accommodation allowance for 3 months if you were out of company accommodation. plus one month salary approximately for each year you have been in this beautiful place Very nice place, unless you have no choice in the future to join another airline you can always come back if they call you. but I believe when this dumpster will start rehiring, many other companies around the world will start at the same time. So why to go back to this crap ? I would never myself but anyone can make his choice. It was not a decent job. even before the virus came. Rosters were crap before the virus. People would fly exhausted. Same now on some fleets like 777. but they do not care. I have never realized why they cannot manage an efficient roster.

[Python27]

Comparing the goat with the rest of the middle east is like comparing the middle east to the Civilised World...

​​​​

[007busdriver]

The recent outcome of the survey might've been worse if it was still ongoing.

[Caged]

Saw an article shared last week stating figures of 50% pilots being jobless at this time...it was 30% in the survey link above from October 2020.

[Bigaircolibri]

I know the game now!
"Habibi" told me me that the new Zapattero, or let say the new Greek VPFO got his job by having help a lot the company to find out all the whatsapp groups' users, basicaly name your colleague, you will be promoted! What a safe culture!

Talking about safe culture, the QR safety culture is like the Coronavirus, "Pathological" : who cares as long as the flight departs on time.
Have you see hiw many guys reporting a safety events are punished! It is just a formal and superficial safety culture...

Talking about promotion, QR flight safety: promote it, but promote the manager whose gonna use it against you!

How many guys today are flying fatigue, exhausted, scared to death, mentally impaired for not having seen their families?

[tundrapilot]

He will not last long. They will just use him to do their job and then kick him out..

[fatbus]

I wouldn't count on it !

[mes4x]

VPFO isn’t Greek but Maltese.

[Ticker1]

you are right he is Maltese he used to be in QR before he left and come back again, he is an ex EK, after been drop in the dump by EK QR pick him up as usual, QR loves to pick up the garbage from Ek.

[I love twins]

While I don’t know what is going on in QR, I will say that the individual to which you refer was hugely respected and liked within EK. He was not “dumped” but rather left for his own, personal, reasons.
He was a man of great character.
With that in mind, I wouldn’t so readily believe rumours spread by those with unknown motives, habibi or otherwise.

[tundrapilot]

I love twins,

It looks like you know a lot about this guy. Is he your friend ? then it is absolutely normal to defend him But someone who left EK to go to QR and then left QR to come back again sounds rather what Ticker1 describes and not what you write above. Very unstable professional.. probably he was ex Etihad too.. Tell us more please about him.. looks like you know him well

[5star]

yep. agree with luv 2ns. Was not the typical brown nose guy in EK...I think he got tired of all the BS over here...Lets not forget that a while back, QR was considered a better option than EK...(unlike 15 years ago...)
Must be, what it is 4 to 5 years ago he left? I lost track....
Respectable gentleman

[Ticker1]

Well as VPFO he had all the tools to make the pilot group redundancy more fair but instead he hide behind his desk with no communication, while man power (ex CC) do his job in choosing the FD’s,

A man should be measure for his leadership in crisis not in good times.

[I love twins]

As mentioned, I have no awareness of what is going on in QR, nor am I trying to stir any pot. I feel for those who have lost their livelihood. I lost my position at EK last year. I am simply giving an alternative view of the gentleman in question, a view that many ex-colleagues in EK would share.

Perhaps he has done the things mentioned, or perhaps he hasn’t. I do realise that this is a rumour network where, sadly, decency seems to be in short supply, however the vilification of individuals does not sit well with me, hence my post.

In any case, I wish you all good luck and hope to see you back in the air soon.

[Ticker1]

Perhaps you should give a call to the gentleman and probably he can give you a job here in QR.

All the best and good luck.

[Bigaircolibri]

I love twins

Your point of view about him comes from a long time ago, in another position, in another airline.

Your "beloved" gentleman has taken a long way since then.
Can you guarantee he is the same person today?

Greediness... Greediness is the answer....
People lie, people change, he was probably a nice fellow, as Zapata was at EK as I heard, before coming here.

I have asked habibi about Greek... Maltese...
Habibi said he doesn't care much, we are all the same bunch of slaves.

But I should have paid myself more attention to the correct nationality, I guess because there was also a Greek Captain who has given a lot of names out of those Whatsapp group, and that guy is still on the crew list....

[Bigaircolibri]

Can someone explain me why the 777 is flying as much as the 350, and way more than the 787.... And why there was roughly 100 skipers less on the 777 between May20 and Dec20?
And only 40 on the 787?
Is there anyone in control of this non-sense?

[007busdriver]

So it means more redundancies to come?..

[CDRW]

Very likely - closely followed by re-employment on new contracts. The 777 fleet will set the standard of how the company treats the remaining workforce. The fleet is growing, the hours are being ramped, alot of crew - esp FOs have outstanding leave, active crew are approaching max yearly hours! Its going to be interesting times in the next 6 months. The Flight Decks attitude of " lets help the company through hard times " has all but disappeared. The age old adage of "you reap what you sow" will be felt by QR this year.

On one positive note in regards to the arrival of the Maltese is that it got rid of that Italian. How he still walking is a mystery

[mes4x]

The guy you are referring to was sacked in the September wave.

[Jack D]

euroxx

Partly correct but only partly. Not cp but training manager Airbus at EK , resigned frequently and finally had his resignation accepted .
Average performance as a manager but not considered to be unreasonable, resigned from Air Malta , their fleet is tiny . His brother has been made redundant from A380, possibly due to age. Was at QR not sure why he left them possibly to take up the Air Malta position.

[Bigaircolibri]

WTF! Habibi just told me we have fired around 100 x777 skipers l, and now they are organizing some 787 fleet transfer to 777, like really?
Cost effectiveness?

[WB1900]

Sounds like a typical ME company - shooting fast with no brain about the next step
today the step looks good and tomorrow we silently pour money to fix a stupid managers decision

[Bigaircolibri]

WTF, habibi just said emails have been sent to re hire some deck crew on 787 and 777s!

[casablanca]

Probably going back to new hire pay levels?

[FlyingAce77]

No chance..
they are going to offer a much lower pay scale..
Yet they are still laying off flight crew..
this shows stupidity & lack of vision is paramount in Tower 1 2 3 & Top floor of QROC..

[CDRW]

Yup. They still got Boeing pilots doing the last parts of their repatriation process and they ( and I use they as a collective noun for The Goat) start the process of " re-hiring". "New joiners" will be on first year revised pay scale regardless of what position they had prior to being terminated - oh damn its made REDUNDANT- words mean things! Re- join if you need the job but never forget how short sighted they are.
Additionally " they" have been operating under Covid rules and dispenation. Europe turnarounds. China turnarounds. Hong Kong turnarounds. Johannesburg turnarounds. Who in their right mind thinks that flight operations, crewing and planning will revert to pre pandemic FTLs once the world has come right. Dream on if you do.

[Python27]

In the meantime, more 320 pilots got TBN yesterday...

[007busdriver]

According to a rumor, those guys are to be coverted to 777 feet.. But not sure, just a rumor..

[FlyingAce77]

Python27

Is the 100 number correct of the layoffs that happened recently?

[airbourne]

Loads of 777 guys being let go at the same time as new hires are coming in. Basically get rid of the people on the old contracts and hire people on half of what the other earned.

[Aso]

are they still building the new HQ campus they were planning a few years ago?

[FlyingAce77]

Bigaircolibri

Non-Sense is part of Qatar Airways decision making” We all know it by now, 11yrs and counting for me 🤣

[Python27]

Aso

Last time I heard, many things are still temporary like the "temporary QROC parking lot". The only new development from the eastern management is the new-new IOC...

[Bigaircolibri]

Habibi told me only a dozen ish pilots were called back.
It was just a some kind of marketing announcement, "Look at us at Qatar Airways (where all the pilots are slaves and working more than anywhere else), we are re-hiring our pilots"....
During that time, Habibis are happy, Al Bakkar makes pilot flying during March on block time over 145h! It is all under control!

Where is CNN? BBC? Maybe Al Jazeera ?😂

[FlyingAce77]

This is Hilarious yet makes sense,
Doha News Picks the Story, People who aren’t familiar with what really is happening inside QR Retweet & Share with Praises of QR etc etc.. A Marketing Ploy” The Dumb & the Dumber!

[Bigaircolibri]

Indeed, the most serious newspaper in the world....

Qatar Airways asks axed pilots to reapply as services lift off (https://www.dohanews.co/qatar-airways-asks-axed-pilots-to-reapply-as-services-lift-off/)

[Lucifer786]

Currently QR operating more than 80% of its fleet …????!!! ( as per the news article )

With what FDC. Less than 60% of the original ?

[FlyingAce77]

Bigaircolibri

Doha news is just biased, I countered them on this article on Twitter & have yet to get a response back. They are just trying to portray QR is a Blessing for all the Redundant Employees but the matter of fact is, it’s, just a Marketing gimmick.

[FlyingAce77]

Lucifer786

I would say around 30-35% of the Flight crew, Yet, they are laying off more ...

[mes4x]

I would say more.More likely in the upper 40s.

[Lucifer786]

FlyingAce77

WOW …!!!
At the very least an accident waiting to happen … very disconcerting indeed.
🤔

[Python27]

According to a rumor, those guys are to be coverted to 777 feet.. But not sure, just a rumor..

Cutting the wishful thinking and coming back to the real world, the TBN pilots got a call for a meeting on monday...

[FlyingAce77]

As expected! Really sorry for the A320 FC & their families... This is a never ending Mess, and no timeline given when will these redundancies stop.

At a dinner a fellow colleague shared every month Balance Sheet is presented to the Chief & with a Loss he passes orders to Layoff employees 200-300 ... This is how layoffs are continuing- atleast according to a colleague.

[FlyingAce77]

Lucifer786

Even with upper 40% it is a alarming time indeed for Fleet Managers, Flight Safety & QR Management at QR Towers .. They should be worried but they aren’t worried about the imminent disaster - their worries constitute “Marketing” of the Brand..

[Count von Altibar]

Sounds really bizarre what's going on at QR, as if there's no defined plan just winging it. Seems like the employees are left hanging not knowing what's coming next which must be highly stressful for all. There'll come a day when they need pilots again and many will be nervous to commit to moving (or moving back) to Doha knowing what's come before with respect to the bad handling of this crisis.

[FlyingAce77]

There never was a Plan When layoffs started in March from Technical Department, they were going Watch as you go” & decide.

[flyfor]

Absolutely, don't believe what QA or local media is saying.
They fired thousands and rehired few, just to show off.
Typical QA respond to pilots that were willing to come back was "We hope this email finds you well. Thank you for your interest in rejoining,... but NO!"
It will be beautiful watching World Cup 2022 sitting on the couch and sipping beer without QDC license.

[mmorel]

wow , they are rehiring those FAs who were locked out of the country after firing off 1/3 of FAs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021/03/02/qatar-airways-helping-stranded-cabin-crew-nearly-12-months-after-they-were-locked-out-of-the-country/amp/

[FlyingAce77]

I can confirm you, this is only the SIDL Crew that were stuck outside because of border closures, on the other hand, Crew that left on ULV in May are all laid off outstation or in the process of receiving emails and phone calls...

This said, SIDL crew that Is being called back are made to sign New Contract with a Basic of 2800QAR depending on how many years they have been in QR & mostly who were stuck outside are Either CSD, CS, and or F1s..

On the other hand QR is operating with a Min Crew, like on a recent flight to a European Country there were 200 Y Class Pax and only 3 Cabin Crew- it was Hell for those poor souls” literally working like slaves at FL340.

[FlyingAce77]

Habibti says that 200 FD Crew were in the Separation department today” Most were from A320 Fleet... More over, She even saw Cabin Crew Literally Begging to get their EOSB so that they can leave... Sad sad sad times
QR will have to pay for all this Mismanagement and in-justice that the employees have to go through- The depression, Stress, Emotional Breakdowns...

[QRA350]

Any more layoffs on the 350 fleet ?

[SOPS]

FlyingAce77

Does QR have any flight crew left? It seems a constant stream of sackings.

[FlyingAce77]

Numbers are going down, Honestly, have no clue what the management is doing...
habibti even said that Crew that were put in Call Centers are laid off as well..

[fatbus]

How will they pay ? They don't care ! Cut from the same cloth as EK . Pick and choose when recall happens and the next wave of newbies line up .

[White Knight]

like on a recent flight to a European Country there were 200 Y Class Pax and only 3 Cabin Crew

Yeah! What type and how many doors were manned? Sounds like BS to me purely from a regulatory POV!

[FlyingAce77]

All doors were manned except 1
it was a B787
There were 3 working in Y
3 working in J apart from the R1
7 Cabin Crew & 2 FD Crew
This is standard now for 78.

[007busdriver]

Call backs are on going but what about airbus ??? Any news?

[QRA350]

I would think atleast the 350 crew, anyone in the know ? Habibi ?

[007busdriver]

I expect some call backs from 350 too, but when?

[007busdriver]

If boeing has started to build up airbus shouldn’t be far away

[Python27]

That would sound logical. But ain't true...

[007busdriver]

So you have some information about that?

[Twiglet1]

WK
Maybe min crew and whatever was left up the middle and front serving biz pax #justsaying

[eternity]

FlyingAce77,

I'm on the 777 so I know very little about the 78.
However, 7 cabin crew on a 78 raised my eyebrows.
A quick Google search of the smallest 787 shows me a pic of 8 doors.
How are they running only 7 cabin crew?
In extreme circumstances you may be able to MEL a door to make it work (pax numbers depending), but no regulatory authority (including destination and overflying) will take that excuse on a daily basis.

So.....you sure of that claim you made?

Adding an addition to this post......
I'm never one to quickly delete a post and then hide in the dark when I'm wrong.
Had a chat to a buddy from QR and he confirmed that the 78 is running with 7.
Personally I am surprised that this is true and it has passed muster. However this seems to be the case.

[Ticker1]

Yes is true i did it as well not on the 787 in another aircraft i will post a picture but won’t be right to do it in a public forum, and i won’t tell you either which aircraft or manufacture cause i don’t want that you be googling how many CC fit on each door on a Friday night, go an get a beer with your friends if you have any, instead of been googling about aircraft doors lol

[metro301]

The FAA makes no mention of # of doors.

No idea on Qatar specific Regs. Countries that follow the FAA have min cabin crew based on seat numbers installed per aircraft and Evac Certification Demonstrations.

CFR 14.121.391 Flight attendants

https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title14_chapterI-i2_part121_subpartM_section121.391#regulation_5

[Ticker1]

eternity

Nobody said you were wrong you just couldn’t believe it, and i don’t blame you for it, here is like a different dimension “Unbelievable.”

[Whitemonk Returns]

I've flown many different types, bombardier, Boeing and Airbus to name a few, none that I can remember have ever specified anything to do with the number of cabin crew required related to how many doors an aircraft has, all to do with how many passengers are onboard, usually about 50 pax per CC. Pax are assumed to be capable of opening a door if briefed accordingly

[pfvspnf]

How much the salary now for Capt and FO?

[Romasik]

Whitemonk Returns

No way. Only overwing emergency hatch. Any door should be manned by the cabin crew. Unless there are no passengers in the vicinity, and seats in the area placarded unserviceable.

[krismiler]

If a door is treated as U/S under the MEL it doesn't need to be manned, however seats nearby are blocked off and pax numbers reduced. Depending on the regulator this can be a useful get home method if you're operating with minimum cabin crew and one goes sick downroute.

Loads are minimal at the moment but being able to operate a flight back with 50 pax offloaded is still better than a cancellation.

[Lepo]

Most places use the requirement of 1 cabin crew for each 50 pax. In the past it used to be related to the number of doors, but it's a been a while since many places worldwide changed this requirement for one CC for each 50 pax (with a lot of lobby by the airlines of course).

Just look at the airlines flying the B737-700 and A319. Most use only 3 cabin crew.

The 787-8 at QR is configured for 254 pax, so the minimum number of cabin crew is actually 6.

[flyfor]

After you guys stop measuring, let's return to the topic of "Qatar salary reductions and redundancies".

[Flapsupbedsdown]

Whitemonk Returns

Check your sources of information, you'll have surprises

[breezee]

guys, just to get back on track and close the unrelated subjects... i wanna summarize the story..
1) more than approximatelly 50% of the flight deck have been made redundant.. mostly from Airbus family..A350 is relatively on the safe side..
2) Boing fleet is flying on the limits.. so they called back some redundant pilots to rejoin and support boing fleet..i also heard some airbus 330 guys also called back to convert and join boing.. i have no idea based on which criteria they have been called..

if anybody knows more please enlighten us..

[Ticker1]

flyfor

lol exactly,!

[777kicker]

Any clue about who’s been recalled so far?

[FlyingAce77]

eternity

My claim is 100% right, got to know from the Horses Mouth who operated that particular flight.. The person is not wrong at all”

[Akrep]

Heared there are difficulties getting people back who already left, because new RPs are not being issued but people still in country and about to leave who still have RP have been called to stay but dont know details of new salary deals

[FlyingAce77]

Yet they are laying off more”

RPs are being issued, especially work visas... This visa thing is another issue..

[007busdriver]

Has anyone from 350 been called back? Is that only for 78 ?

[Silver68]

I know for certain that 777 and 787 pilots have been called. I also hear (unconfirmed) that not all invited back have accepted. The ones that have accepted are waiting to see if Qatar tries to screw them over terms and conditions. I understand that there is a general reluctance to accept any offer considered derisory. The 25% reduction currently in effect is the bench mark for most, anything less makes Qatar unviable for many.

[casablanca]

when I joined QR back in 2013 I believe I remember the min crew for 777 200 LR as 7 , although the normal compliment was 15.

[CDRW]

For those that return the contract will be challenging to accept. The airline has all flight deck literally by the short and curlies. For those coming back who are non type rated and will be getting a Boeing conversion- be prepared to sell your soul. The Maltese man is just starting.

[renren]

Well, do you already know the new terms to claim that? If yes, would be interesting to share

[FlyingAce77]

I’m more curious to know the Consequences of UK Banning QR flights from the 19th March 2021. It’s 56 flights a month which is 8 flights a day for the UK. This seems more layoffs will happen, since the ban is for indefinite period as Previously UAE had been banned by the UK, Oman & Qatar both are on the red list from 19th hence more Airlines will suffer and will staff like us have to brace for more impact.

[bananaman2]

not banned... just Qatar has been put on the UKs ‘red list’... which means hotel quarantine instead of home quarantine. Also no visitors only Nationals and those with the right to stay.

[FlyingAce77]

https://onemileatatime.com/uk-bans-qatar-airways/

Apart from Cargo Ops
QR can’t bring in Pax into England, Unless they QR wants to fly empty into England & Bring Back Pax, either way, it’s a big loss for QR & the Ban is Indefinitely.

[Python27]

Looks like moha and his friends will be stuck in dohell during the hunger games. No bunga bunga parties and feasts in the noon...

[bananaman2]

FlyingAce77

yes... I’ve seen it... but as I said, the same article confirms UK citizens and residents can still enter... it’s the visitors that are banned. So it’s effectively the same thing as Australia and Nzl... and QR are still operating there. Anyway we can just wait and see after the 19th.

[GDAJB]

Direct passenger flights (not cargo, technical, humanitarian etc.) are prohibited. QR are showing current booking requests after Thursday routing through Berlin and Munich and transferring to a one world partner (BA). However an allowable entry via one of these (or other) routes still has to declare and comply with the procedures for permitted entrants from a “red list” country.

[Flapsupbedsdown]

I’m more curious to know the Consequences of UK Banning QR flights from the 19th March 2021. It’s 56 flights a month which is 8 flights a day for the UK. This seems more layoffs will happen, since the ban is for indefinite period as Previously UAE had been banned by the UK, Oman & Qatar both are on the red list from 19th hence more Airlines will suffer and will staff like us have to brace for more impact.

An average of 1,8 flts a day Ace😉

[GDAJB]

Reverse direction flights from U.K. to Qatar are still showing non-stop multiple daily availability even after Friday. Presumably the airframes are intended to operate as cargo/technical flights inbound and then normal passenger flights outbound?

[flyfor]

The Final Solution office was full today. Firing is still in progress.

[FlyingAce77]

Why am I not surprised that the Separation department at Tower 3 is full””” I feel for the Manager Separation Aslam Kareem” nice guy though :)

[Lucifer786]

Wonder how many ‘influential brown nosing pilots from a certain SE Asia sub continent’ have gotten fired so far. With their ‘connections’ to top Managment I imagine the numbers are relatively low 🙄

[APU_inop]

If you are referring to Indians I can tell you that many, many have been fired.

[CDRW]

Any more information on the Zurich ISP e mail telling that the fund the company contributions goes in, has been suspended.

[flyfor]

Can "they" go lower than that?

[Skyfl410]

Long story short...recently, 330 pilots that were made redundant went through the stressful check out procedure (losing their job, sending cargo home, telling wife and kids to quit school and work, cancel Rp, undersell furniture, cars etc.) have been called back in QR and offered Triple seven position. In some cases, some guys got the email only a few hours after the Final check out from the airline.

The funny part is that to rejoin QR; they need to do a PSA test...

They are just insane.

[777kicker]

Insanity has long been the trademark in the sandpit, what else can be expected from people rich enough to afford to be stupid. A few hundred guys are out with a fully valid and still (not for long) current 777/787 rating and some thousand hours on type and they recall 330 guys ( that by the way have my total respect) to give them a full OCC and a full transition course for what? Having then a bond on them? Where is the whole point? Just showing that “they can do as they please”?

[Python27]

The MOI is not issuing RPs nor working permits, hence this is the reason why they called not only pilots leaving the cesspool, but also 330/380 pilots living there with no job.

The saddest part is after calling these pilots for another PSA and interview (under a huge amount of stress with the whole situation) , some unfortunately were failed in the process...

[777kicker]

Most of the 330 guys recalled are already home, their RP canceled, cars sold, home rent closed, furniture and clothing in a container on a ship. Their separation has taken a full month from letter to departure and the Wobblies come up with their recall twelve hours before they climb on an airplane? If this is not insanity on an industrial level...

[fatbus]

Who are the recalled pilots ?

[Count von Altibar]

So they're recalling pilots and firing at the same time sounds like absolute madness at play. Why the hell didn't they just put people on a retainer or leave without pay and keep the skill base on the books for when things pickup instead of this fire and rehire with some kind of selection testing I assume that's what PSA is?

[Crashlanding]

Python27

Just to correct this, MOI are issuing RPs
As well a RP cancelled less then a year is a simple cluck on metrash by the employer to reinstate, you just go and collect the RP or get it delivered for a few Qar.

I know this and have used that.

[Skyfl410]

They know pretty well that when things get better many pilots will runaway. A good way to keep them is by giving a new BOND...That's why they fire and rehire.

Fair enough, I understand Qr needs to cut costs, save money and reorganise certain policies. But they don't have any title to play with PILOTS families. This, for me, is very childish.

[immapostthis]

Took me sometime to read all of this post and if i am honest, i did not read all of it, so prepare for my message to have repeats on what was mentioned or contradicting points of others. But let us try to analyse what is really going on in Akbar Airways (No offence implied)

Qatar Airways grew to one of the biggest airlines in the world and AB was a driving hand in this process. True, no one on this forum can deny that as a fact, the airline is huge. Planes, crew, quality, destinations, etc. They got it...and they got it in a short time period. Some websites ( i actually thinks it is AB PR ) called it an aviation's miracle story. But ask yourself, why has this happened to QA? Why other airlines cannot have this fairy tale story? Well the AB brown noses will say it is because of their 'superior leader'... And I personally won't call him a rubbish leader, i work here and never even seen him, never had an interaction with him, never even met someone who knows him personally ( Introvert here!) but at the same time, I wont say he is the reason for the airline's apparent success. Many great aviation managers/ceo had their airlines run to the ground and it's not always a reflection on their leadership... The reality is, QA has a trick up their sleeve... QG (Qatar Gas).... Qatar the tiny country with the highest GDP per capita. Reading those words you prob won't grasp the magnitude of that kind of money. Qatar is able to make money in a world where natural gas can sell below 1 usd. The amount of money they have currently and will make in the future is ridiculous... i repeat, ridiculous! And anyone who visits Doha can see that billions are spent on everything; beautification, infrastructure, healthcare, transportation, pride and QA. Specifically last year almost 2 billion spent on the airline alone. Believe me when i say, 2 billion for the country Qatar is pocket change. Airlines that lose 2bil$ won't still be a topic of discussion. So AB built the 'greatest' airline with a unlimited supply of money... Unfortunately with most people starting/running any company, with a decent understanding of anything (business related) and an unlimited supply of CHA CHING, would probably have the same outcome. But how do we rate QA as the best airline in the world? Do we check profits? Do we check staff's happiness? Do we check only PAX numbers and/reviews? Because in many other aspects QA would fail being this amazing airline. Point being, QA is the success because of 1 major factor, money. Does this mean as an employee here I hate it? Maybe-Maybe not but which job doesn't have you thinking like that? So don't get this idea i am trying to make the airline sound bad, does not change the reality of the matter...

So this bottomless pit of money and resources. Corona came around the corner... what did airlines around the world do? Well the UK got furlough, that saved many airlines (easyjet).... Since March 2020 i know of pilots and cabin crew who haven't even been working, but still have their jobs, until further notice. BA fired and rehired on some :mad: contracts, Lufthansa always got their :mad: together, regardless of the situation presented to them... The airlines of America (united, AA and Delta) got government funding for sometime (cannot remember how long now) etc. etc. Point being airlines took initiative and showed interest in their staff... they understood what commitment and loyalty is... and yes, this was done due to the governments backing these airlines...but what is up with Ackbar Airways? From the most recent numbers I believe it is almost 1500 pilots fired (30 - 40%) and a billion cabin crew (sarcasm) while also having the richest country in the world funneling cash when needed into the airline. But do a quick google search and you can barely find any of the news of this happening. WORST YET, Al Jazeera had a news segment on the airlines in the world struggling due to the pandemic but not ONCE had their mentioned their state own airline struggling or firing staff, but believe me, the didnt forget to mention Emirates firing 'X number of pilots' or how Virgin is on the brink of collapse.

So what is the point? Why have all this money to waste, all this willingness to show pride and boast about an airline, but not boast about the significantly important factors. eg. "Qatar Airways saved 97% jobs during pandemic." I personally know of guys/gals who would have taken leave without pay for a year or 2 ( Just like Emirates) or temporary salary reductions if it would have helped the airline survive (not like they needed the money actually) and for/and them to keep their jobs. The culture in this airline is sometimes so contradicting because you have clearly see what they have done over the past few months to look good, "The biggest airline per customers repatriated during the pandemic," or " largest airline to exist during the pandemic." Basically, we look good because we provided a service when no one else could have. YES AMAZING, GREAT QATAR AIRWAYS! You look so good to people at the expense of what ? Firing your staff. But think about this... flight flew from point A to B with sometimes; single digit numbers of PAX and PROB some cargo, to fly back to Doha, with significant money lost. No way are they capable of making a profit or breaking. They lost money on those flights, but that doesn't matter because to them, it looks really good to PR. Run a non profitable flight vs keep your staff? Have you seen how the firing is done? How hush hush the airline is keeping it? Does anyone who got fired have any promise/ contract to come back? Like a contract? Is the few words AB said on his interviews all that is required? How confident is anyone here to say that QA will attempt to hire all who their fired? Even if, what percentage will they attempt to bring back? 90%? 5%?

So, pilots fired...To then do what? Rehire eventually with packages that are sooo much rubbish? but you THINK people would take it because of the world's current situation? But oh my! The asian, african and european markets are starting to rehire, and more to come soon. Yes, most people come to the Middle East Airlines to just make money and leave... here you are a number, here you are a labourer... but this is the reason why no one will EVER look at QA and show commitment to them. Take away QA's unlimited supply of money and see how quickly they will burn to the ground. How quickly their superior leader will have no airline to show. See how quickly they will be begging for people to be loyal. Investing in your product also includes your workers too, not just the business class seat, new planes, dining, etc.

Last update I've heard is Feb 2021 pilots were still being fired, but aren't they rehiring now? Rehiring on the boeing fleets. Now this is a 2 sided point, just me rattling;

So you fired guys on the boeing fleet, now are calling them back to get rehired. Yes nice, great as a matter a fact. But at the same time people on airbus 320 are getting fired. Why can't you just do fleet transfers from the 320 to the 777 or 787? ( yes i know this is the 2 sided part; boeing pilots get back jobs and little to no retraining required by bringing back these guys) There is no easy solution here....

From what i've gathered the 320 fleet holds Second Officers, Cadet Pilots and MPL pilots. These are the guys getting fired. Honestly, these are the only pilots who i truly believe show commitment, these are the guys who they should have kept! The ones who bleed QA. The ones who trained years not to be a pilot, but to be YOUR PILOT! For those who are in the MPL Programmes and are now not flying, i am speaking for everyone in this and all forums here, I am very sorry. I have no idea what you all are able to do now and unlike CPL guys, you all are trapped with QA. There really is not any other airline that I currently know of who would even consider you all and don't let me start with those MPL's who are not european ( heard of a few of them) MPL is not even a real license outside of Europe. Really feel for those sorry souls. Unlike the CPL guys, once the industry picks up, they are very likely to get a job. You guys are just waiting on the grace of QA, after investing so much into them! Sorry to say, there is a chance you just invested 100k GBP to never fly again. QA really did slap one in your face. These (SO, Cadets, MPL) are the people who the could have kept; cheap, competent, loyal, very little down side. Now, I wonder if they will even return... because the fleets are streamlining ( rumour) to only 350 787 777 (tel:350 787 777). Goodbye 320 SO, Cadets, MPL.

When QA started firing the fleets that took the biggest hit were the 330 and 787. 330 was a bit understandable because it was supposed to be a dying fleet and it is really good to know that now they are calling back the 330 guys to fill the 777 spots, but 787 apparently is going back in demand over the 320 and this demand makes sense! It can be cheaper to run a 787 vs a 320. So, why fire soo many 787 guys? And the reason was not to keep 320, because those poor bastards are getting let go now....What was the thought process when the firing had to be made. What was the conversation that led to the HR/separations department on firing pilots? Random? As someone above mentioned; think of the most logical thing to do and QA will not do that! =D

From the pilots I have spoken to, currently 777 aviators are being burnt out. So many hours per month. QA mistakes will start to show soon. 777 guys are actually leaving! Let me emphasis again, Qatar Airways 777 pilots are LEAVING THEIR JOBS! At a time where a flying job is something you want to hold! ( back to loyalty again) The demand for these guys are so high right now, pandemic or not. Hence such a need for boeing operations. And in my opinion this world wide demand will only get greater!

The 380 is not flying. So these pilots have been transferred to other fleets or fired. Actually rumours are that 380's are to go back operational pretty soon. It could be a matter of months, which is good news, but who would really fly it? The original pilots are either fired (and may or may not come back, since most of them went back home and got 320 TR to get another job) or on another fleet (777 or 350.) And, it is such a risk to get a TR on that airplane now... in a few years they will be out of most airlines.

Another deeper hole for QA? How differently things could have been handled. It is a really sad thing to watch how better things could have been handled. But thats is just one of the huge problem for us here in QA Management. Everyone is scared. No thinking is actually done, it is just orders taken. ' The airline needs to cut cost!' ok just start firing!!! don't think! just FIRE! I look at things happen here time and time again and say to myself, if someone just stop, think and we all work together things could have been so much better. The worst part is still yet to come, because we eventually need to hire and that is where the hard part will come. If you think that keeping staff was going to cost, when the industry picks back up QA will now have to spend significantly more just to motivate pilots to come. Once again, the money for Qatar as a shareholder is not the problem. Money is there, but now Qatar Airways just took a big hit and they do not even know it yet. Such a pity.

But what is the next move from Qatar Airways? No one really knows... we talk here all about rumours, but nothing is ever really factual until it comes to pass. And why no one really knows is because QA doesn't know themself. It looks like they are making it up as the go along. Competency training is not just something for the cockpit, in my opinion it should be something implemented everywhere. Thinking what if and what happens next. I wish for nothing more than for everyone to get their jobs back or whatever everyone wants for them to be happy/content again. But that is not really what is happening right now, some of you guys are reading this back in your home countries reading this now, waiting to come back, some pilots I've heard are stuck in Doha almost a year now, with nothing in sight. So this community here is your informal support group! Keep up the posting guys! keep up the messages, the rumours, the good and bad talks. This what we have....

[FlyingAce77]

Very Detailed Observation... 👏

[fatbus]

Every expat knows that any and all managers go out of their way to CYA ( their own ) Well known to stab you in the back to make themselves look good . All pilots are to Them are skilled labours . I'm not sure the industry will bounce back for al expats pilots to find work , maybe if willing/ able to wait a few years . CAE still forcasting huge shortage but who knows. LH saying permanent reduction of @15% and significant reduction in premium Pax revenue. Good luck to all those caught up in this.

[007busdriver]

Very well said!

[tundrapilot]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1178x770/12345_7a9da6c2c5bd209f215a9691ce4307493332792c.png

[tundrapilot]

Well said Immapostthis

Also a photo regarding CAE

[fatbus]

I agree , it's wishful thinking . But some are pinning their hopes on it .

[greenslopes]

Just received this;

Hi,...
Hope you are well.

I came upon your profile while doing a search as I'm currently working on a Doha-based role for Qatar Airways that I think might be interesting for you.............etc,etc,etc
Kind Regards

Recruitment business Partner Qatar Airways

[breezee]

be carefull man.. most probably a fraud message if they ask for money for any purpose.. dont fall into trap..

[Python27]

I've seen some scammers advertising positions in goat airlines using EK and EY photos. I believe this is one of the crooks.

But I'm sure some naive colleagues will get pretty excited with your post... !

[aussiefarmer]

Under what conditions is QR rehiring? The already effective 25% cut only?

[tundrapilot]

QR is not rehiring .. as far as I know
maybe a few people who were still in Doha with valid and not canceled RPs

[pfvspnf]

Python27

they are on snap and tik tok now , hiring all the time

[CDRW]

Great observation immapostthis and remarkably true. QR is a very immature airline that is supported by unlimited funds. Casper ( AB) regards himself as an industry titan who can bully his airline to magnificence. The goat emblem reaches all over the world. The immaturity in how the airline handled this pandemic and the staff will be a case study for the future. Such as pilots and Cabin crew hitting the roster refresh button to see if they been terminated! Great HR policy. Great for crew moral and great for airline safety.

I predict QR salaries will rise significantly when aviation recovers from this debacle - principally because new applicants will view the T&Cs as insulting.

[lindros76]

Guys, as a redundant crew, I am still wondering why did they fire 99% of junior crew? What was the main explanation?
As far as I am concerned, almost all Emirates junior cabin crew were sent back home on unpaid leave, and they all started flying six months later.
Thanks.

[Flapsupbedsdown]

Fire and re-hire at a lower rate is much easier probably

[Python27]

They really don't need to do it, since they already shown all the expats that the contracts signed by them are worthy and relevant as used toilet paper....

Commitment and professionalism are merely applicable in one way direction at this place.

[Ticker1]

Heard the news today that between 1,200 to 900 pilots will be recall in the next 2 months, they send approximately 500 emails to 350 and 787 guys.

[obelix360]

I hope it's a reality and not an April Fool's joke! :)

[gpsprimary01]

if it’s an April joke, it’s not so funny.
this is approximately the numbers of crew they have made redundant. How come they will rehire them within 2 months knowing that they are locking the country down again. From where you got that source ? Thanks

[mutt]

Considering that they are now advertising 40 flights a week to Saudi Arabia, who is going to fly them?

[lindros76]

Fire and re-hire at a lower rate is much easier probably
It makes perfect sense. No regrets, they don't work. It will be interesting to see what happens but only from the outside.

[Xavelha]

Not funny if it really is a joke.
although if it were to be true, doubt they would
have those numbers ready to go back. A few dozens, at the very least, are definitely not going back

[tundrapilot]

It is a joke. April fool's day !
Ticker one your joke was smart but maybe some people didn't like it which is understandable

[fatbus]

A bad joke considering what some people are going through !

[Xavelha]

What part, if anything, was smart in that joke ?

[filejw]

Heard the news today that between 1,200 to 900 pilots will be recall in the next 2 months, they send approximately 500 emails to 350 and 787 guys.

Hopefully not a joke for you folks as on this side of pond the major airlines are talking about new hires soon.

[fatbus]

UA/AA/DL hiring soon? Really ? AC/WJ sure not !

[007busdriver]

Oh they're re hiring while some countries going to full lockdown again.. Obviously joke, a bad one.. :/

[Silver68]

well I had the call back, as did many friends. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[gpsprimary01]

Very good Silver68. I wish you all the best during this rejoining programme.
Do you have any feedback from your colleague or by your self about the terms and conditions for the rejoining programme.
Do they send you a manual to study at home? D
What about all this courses like CRM SEP? are you going to attend the course online or at DOH?
And what about the working conditions? do you recover your id number and same salary (with 25% reduction) or it's lower rate?
Sorry for all that questions :-)

[fatbus]

It's a slow process, would not count on new hires for awhile and that does not mean the industry has recovered . You have to look at the global impact. Jobs lost compared to jobs regained overall. EK as an example , only my personal contacts, out of 1500 kicked out @50 have got jobs.

[Silver68]

787/777 fleets

[007busdriver]

so no one from 350 fleet?

[Silver68]

SandPilot350

just to be clear. Many people have been invited back and have submitted the online tests. As far as I know, that is where we are all waiting right now.

A member of the recruitment team will be contacting us shortly... apparently.

[mmorel]

What is the online test for? Is it technical?

[Silver68]

No. Personality tests. 🤦🏻

[Flapsupbedsdown]

:ugh:HR super powers!!

[lfbb]

If you stop and think about it, makes total sense a personality (psychological) test to asse how much damage the separation processe has caused to an individual. Specially the way it was handled by the company... I bet lots of people left the company carrying back home some hard feelings, maybe HR is trying to filter those individuals. I know it sounds crazy but that's how their "Indian heads" work.

[fatbus]

The sub continent mafia will prevail!

[007busdriver]

lfbb

makes sense to me tho..

[Ticker1]

if it’s an April joke, it’s not so funny.
From where you got that source ? ThanksHalf of it was a joke the other half is not (i don’t know the exact number of recalls yet), my source doesn’t come from Flt ops as i used to be in the banking sector before so i know a few of these cats that are pretty high up in companies most will never hear of it but i will give you two hints auditors and fiscal year.

Apologies to any that got upset it was not my intentions to fool you around.