Southampton-2

[stewyb]

easyJet release S18 schedule before end Sept, any chance of route addition/s at SOU?

[canberra97]

Your as much aware as anyone else on here regarding any EasyJet announcement for summer 2018 and I don't think we're no until the full schedule is released but I wouldn't hold your breath for anything ex SOU.

As much I would like to see EasyJet expand on their planned Geneva route but you have to remember that this flight will be undertaken by EasyJet Switzerland.

[A320.b744]

That would be highly unlikely. SOU (like BOH which also only has one route) is operated by easyJet Switzerland, a separate airline that has its own route strategy team. DS fly to several destinations that are not on the U2 route map. easyJet themselves have not yet entered the SOU market, and almost certainly won't do so as they wouldn't want to risk losing passengers from their BRS and LGW bases. You're also forgetting that DS haven't even operated their first flight yet from SOU, and they'll want to test the waters for a year or two before considering adding any new routes.

[stewyb]

Maybe using based airports like Nice & Barcelona?

[RW20]

Barcelona was tried by vueling in recent times,and didn't work.Nice has been a Flybe destination and is not a prolific destination.
The most important announcement regarding Saouthampton will be any airside improvements,i.e
Stands and 20 starter strip!.Without these developments,don't expect to much in airline announcements!.

[canberra97]

Barcelona should be a success from most U.K. airports including Southampton but the fact that Vueling was a totally unknown name to many at the time it operated it wasn't too much of a surprise that it was shelved and Flybe continuing the route a year later with a ridiculous schedule that too was doomed but with the likes of EasyJet flying SOU to BCN I personally think that the route could be a success, the same applies in a similar way to Nice.

Barcelona is my favourite city and one I visit a couple of times a year so personally I would love to see SOU to BCN return someday.

[Cozy F]

EasyJet more likely to try the likes of EDI, BFS etc than anything else in the circumstances from SOU - imho..

[canberra97]

But would EasyJet really want to encroach on current routes flown by Flybe rather than concentrating on unserved routes, I don't think it would be in the airports interests to have two airlines competing on the major domestic markets such as EDI and BFS.

IF and a big IF, we're EasyJet to announce flights from Southampton a scenario could be by a W pattern from other bases as others have suggested to at least test the market.

[01475]

SOU strikes me as more of a FlyBe + Ryanair or Jet2 type of airport than a FlyBe + easyJet type of airport.

[The Nutts Mutts]

In other non-easyjet news- SOU had its busiest summer ever, 219,874 pax in July and 225,682 in August.
KLM have also added an additional weekly flight on Sunday mornings, taking them to double-daily every day except Saturdays.

[RW20]

01475
Good thoughts on Ryanair and Jet 2,however the runway length prohibits both of these carriers as potential users!.Good passenger figures for July/August further underlines the necessity for runway length increase / airside improvements announcement,but will this ever become reality?.
There has never been a better time to move to the next level at Southampton,it's got all the transport links any airport could want,improve airside and the airlines will come in and destinations will increase!

[GCILover]

There's no reason why Jet 2 can't operate from SOU (route depending). They fly out of JER which has a shorter runway than SOU

[SWBKCB]

But how far do they go?

[GCILover]

Apart from UK routes, I'm unsure which is why I put route depending

[kcockayne]

Jet 2 operate Jersey to Leeds. I would not expect that this would ever mean that they operate at max. loads. In fact, they only use the 737-300 on the route. The 800 is weight restricted at Jersey. Doesn't mean that we never get them, though.

[RW20]

Kcockayne.
Just as I suspected,the 737-800 would have weight restrictions from Southampton to sun destinations.
That's why we will never see Jet 2 or Ryanair operating from this airport.
There is no mention of any new destinations from Southampton with easy today,indeed unless the runway take off distance is increased then don't expect any news.
Without radical airside change I think we can expect the same as this year and the past year,with Flybe
Operating the Sun routes with Volotea providing a limited balaric service.

[MARKEYD]

Easy Jet don't tend to release new routes until around Oct time for the following summer and indeed if they are continuing the route into April ?

Interestingly the fares for SOU - GVA all seem to be well under £ 40 each way for all days except school half term where the BOH - GVA fares are well over that price and have been since they were released .
Not sure if that is an indication of seats not selling well , lot more capacity this year of course with Flybe and Powdair to compete with

[The Nutts Mutts]

MARKEYD- I'm by no means an expert but I've noticed the same and my thoughts on this are:

You're right in that the flights may not be selling very well. In my experience SOU really isn't strong on its marketing of routes beyond social media and occasional public competitions to win tickets etc. I can't remember ever seeing SOU-specific flights advertised on buses, trains or billboards etc. I guess this may be more the responsibility of the airlines though.
I've had a few conversations regarding holidays with people recently who had no idea that easyJet were now going to be flying from SOU, and these were all people who lived in the local area, so I'd say there's work to be done to increase awareness of these flights.

I've always thought of SOU routes as slow burners in that perhaps due to the above they seem to get off to soft starts and then eventually (if given time) build up to strong loads. See BMI to MUC, Flybe to DUS, Volotea to PMI for examples. KLM and Flybe now seem to happily co-exist on the AMS route and pax numbers on that route are going from strength to strength.

On the other hand, in their BOH-GVA route easyJet have a strong, stable and long-standing ski route that no doubt has a large number of returning customers year on year. Therefore, they can increase ticket prices for a higher yield knowing that up to a point, people will still buy them. They don't have this customer base at SOU yet, and as you say are up against direct competition from Flybe, indirect competition from Powdair to Sion, and even competition for passengers' wallets from routes to ski destinations in other countries such as Innsbruck. They are the new kid on the block at Southampton and although they are arguably already the biggest and most recognisable ski flight operator from there, they will have work to do to penetrate the market and carve out their own share.
Low ticket prices could be the way they plan to do this, in order to stimulate demand, take pax from the competition and begin to generate brand/destination loyalty and repeat business, like they have from other airports such as BOH where they're more established.
It may be that EZY have more cheap tickets on sale from SOU for this reason so it will take longer for each date to start showing high prices.

If they get enough people on their aircraft from SOU this year, even if many are at at low-yielding fares, then they may see the potential to return to the market next season and aim for a higher yield, and so on. No doubt low fares will be at least partially offset by incentives from the airport who I'm sure are delighted to have EZY there and will be desperate to keep them.

I may be completely wrong and the flights will just end up going out empty most of the time. Obviously I hope that's not the case and it's more to do with aggressive pricing. It would be good to see a few more dates showing high fares though.
Does anyone know whether any tour operators will be buying seats on these flights, or will easyJet sell them exclusively?

[GCILover]

Interesting how so many people say med flights are restricted due to runway length. GIB doesn’t have a problem with A320’s (that I know of) and that has a shorter runway. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. I know that the SOU stands aren’t ideal but with very little in the way of 195’s now, stands 6 and onwards could be used mainly leaving the other stands free for decent sized aircraft

[SWBKCB]

Runway length isn't the only limiting factor - there are also obstacles affecting climb out performance. For details have a look at the previous thread, it's been covered in depth a couple of times.

[MARKEYD]

Think the runway length , restrictions etc was discussed back in July and various aircraft performance etc

Now its a new thread it might take some searching to find it

[Rivet Joint]

Yes this discussion was discussed at length. Basically obstacles largely restrict SOU's operating performance and new lights and landing systems would yield little improvement. I personally still find that hard to believe or more to the point that SOU is not doing all they can to tackle the obstacles but maybe with the arrival of new planes like the C Series it is accedemic.

SOU announced around the EZY announcement that they would reveal plans for significant investment in the autumn. We have been here before with the investment usually turning out to be refreshed toilets or a larger duty free. I have noticed that they have been hiring a few people in their ops and planning team recently so perhaps we are finally going to see something worthwhile happen. By my reckoning we are now in the autumn so they need to get on with it.

[uptoncol]

Thomson have just added menorca for summer 2018 from Southampton departing Saturday afternoons chartered by Flybe .
Col

[adfly]

Good find uptoncol, flight time of 2:45 out and 3:05 back would suggest it is to be operated by a Q400. Nice to see Mahon return.

[uptoncol]

That's what I was thinking ,
I went to Mahon back in 2013 from sou on the 195 chartered by Thomas cook ,a nice aircraft ,perhaps they will see how the booking s go and maybe upgrade to the 195

[The Nutts Mutts]

Also glad to see Mahon back.

With regards to the easyJet ticket price discussion the other day, I noticed today that Southampton is the only UK airport not to be a departure option on the easyJet holidays website. BOH is there, as are all the others. Hopefully this will be rectified soon as this may restrict booking potential?

[GCILover]

Flying out of SOU last night, I noticed a lot of vehicles and containers in a compound over the far side of the airfield. Could this be preparations for the much needed improvements to the airfield?

[TCAS FAN]

GCIlover

Snow moving equipment?

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
There has been no further announcements on Southampton development ,can we expect any airside improvements?The airport seems to be steadily increasing in passenger numbers,surely it is approaching maximum numbers for the existing terminal?

[stewyb]

Airport already confirmed earlier this year that no terminal extension will be required at this stage and I believe it is capable of handling circa 3m per annum so a long way to go!

[TCAS FAN]

RW20

Wish I knew, I threw in the towel many years ago after too many opportunities for airside improvements were missed, failure to provide a northern taxiway connection to the runway while there was an asphalt plant on site resurfacing the runway (a figure of around £50K was mentioned), extension of the short term car park up to the fence thereby preventing any extension of Stands 7-12 to take larger aircraft nose-in, failure to fully address the tree problem at the southern end (if you currently drive along the M27 take a quick look at the RW 02 approach lights buried in the trees-that's the tip of the iceberg) to permit increases in take-off weights, just a few past frustrations.

Still waiting for a significant announcement from the airport operators, haven't seen any planning applications for a runway starter strip or northern taxiway extension, so not holding my breath.

Under the original Section 106 Agreement drawn up with Local Planning Authorities when the airport site was redeveloped, contrary to many past Airport MD's publically voiced statements, an application for a runway extension can be made provided that it is not extended beyond 2000 metres. Nice as that would be its never going to happen unless a large part of Campbell Road housing is demolished and the rail yard and sheds are removed. Moving aircraft noise closer to Eastleigh is of course another factor that would most probably prevent it. A 150 metre northern starter strip, within the existing boundary fence may be successful, however the issue of an access road to the to permit development of the north eastern corner then comes into play, as does a large gas pipeline which around the northern end of the runway.

[Nakata77]

As mentioned on another thread a very limited 137m extension to the take off field length would have no tangible effect on existing operations (within 2hrs) in terms of payload limitations

Anything over 2hrs would still carry payload penalties so what's the point of extending it?

[stewyb]

I disagree, if Southend can make the likes of Tenerife, Lanzarote and Malta work, then why not SOU with similar runway dimensions, even if both are payload restricted!

[Nakata77]

stewyb - if there are payload penalties then it means the fares will need to be higher. If people are prepared to pay more to fly from their local airport then that makes total sense but often this isn't the case. Operating payload penalty flight also makes sense if you are far away enough from competitors without restrictions. With SEN they are pretty distant from STN (an hours drive) so there may be a niche, but with SOU it's literally in Ryanair's core BOH catchment and too close to LHR's outer catchment.

[TCAS FAN]

stewyb

SEN does not have the performance limiting tree and hill obstacle problem that SOU has for 20 departures. SOU cannot move the hill, but could do something with the trees, something I wrote a report on for them in 2000!

[stewyb]

Who owns the land populated by said trees and is it indeed possible to remove/reduce?

[southside bobby]

Nakata77.......with all due respect MAG would claim I feel that just an hour`s drive in deepest Essex is very seriously within STN`s catchment...& then you state SOU is within LHR`s outer catchment...confliction in that statement as well ?...

[TCAS FAN]

stewyb

From memory I believe that all of the performance limiting trees are on publically owned land, ie Southampton City Council. I had a long conversation with their then (2000) arboriculturist (tree man!) who was of the opinion that reduction of tree height could be negotiated.

While SOU has an offset take-off procedure, to avoid the hill, the problem trees were too close to the runway end to permit the necessary turn on to the offset take-off, thereby preventing use of its much better performance limiting obstacle environment .

Addition of a northern starter strip could mitigate the obstacle problem, but I do not have current aircraft performance data to determine if it will permit an early enough turn onto the offset take-off.

[shamrock7seal]

i think he means inner and outer catchments

[Rivet Joint]

Any reason why the reduction of the trees was not followed through? Useless management? I think the long incumbent team have already proved they will not invest if there is a cheaper option. Look at the VOR removal for an example. Rather than install a new ILS they were exploring a cheaper GPS based system. Not sure what happened in the end.

They are probably banking on enhances in aircraft opening the door to new opportunities. Let's not forget LCY has routes to Greece and shortly to Iceland. Let's also not forget they have a route to New York. I guess they can probably get away with charging premium prices but so can SOU to a certain extent.

The real hope for investment surely is more and/or bigger stands. Also taxiways to avoid backtracking. These are absolutely musts if they want to open the door to EZY. As other posters have pointed out the starter strip would make little difference. Then again the runway is due a resurface so might be an oprtunity to make it happen.

[TCAS FAN]

Rivet Joint

An ILS on 02 would be of dubious value due to the hill south of the airport. The resultant approach minima with the current 02 threshold wouldn't be anywhere near what is available on 20. The other issue is where would a localiser antenna be sited? Unless SOU could takeover the rail yard at the north end, a localiser inside the current boundary would impact on the ability to put in a useful 20 starter strip/runway extension.

An ideal solution to 02 would have been an MLS approach, which could have offered a curved approach to avoid some of the impact of the hill. Also much more stable than an ILS, and not requiring the expense of six monthly flight checks. Although intended to replace ILS, MLS was not universally liked and therefore never took off.

GPS/GNSS approaches are the way to go, as time goes by they will eventually offer CAT 3 minima, although not at SOU. Virtually no ground based equipment to purchase and maintain, so little capital expenditure for the bean counters to worry about, simples!

I'm currently involved in a long term project using GPS approaches which enables us to routinely land an aircraft on a 900mm centreline, on the touchdown zone, every time!

I've had a previous rant about GPS/GNSS approaches on the previous SOU thread. UK airports with no scheduled public transport flights have used them for years (Shoreham and Gloucestershire/Staverton being examples, with Halfpenny Green and Hverfordwest apparently due to shortly follow them).

Why in the 21st century is SOU screwing around with offset NDB and VOR/DME approaches for 02? Especially with the SAM VOR/DME known to have short time life expectancy.

Contrary to previous comment made in response to my past rant about GPS/GNSS approaches, alleging that specialised survey data was required, IMHO as both 02 & 20 already have non-precision instrument procedures, SOU already have the survey data necessary to support GPS/GNSS approaches for both runways. They also have the protection of controlled airspace for aircraft flying approaches, a luxury the previous mentioned airports do not have, and therefore needed to pay some for an expensive Safety Case to prove adequate risk mitigation.

NATS are desperate to retain the SOU contract, they have the ability to design GPS/GNSS approaches, time for SOU to squeeze them, again!

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
Excellent analysis of a very dissapointing Southampton landing aids situation.I suspect little will change!
Moving away from this,there appears to be no further developments from easy jet re : Southampton Sun routes or anything else ( Easy later Summer announcement today). Apart from Volotea Majorca/Ibiza continued flights and Flybe,is Southampton going to progress to other routes in 2018?

[stewyb]

Not sure Volotea are returning next summer as on checking their website, no flights are loaded for SOU although all other summer routes on their network are present, even Cork to Verona!

[RW20]

Stewyb
If that is the case,it would be a big blow to Southampton progression.
Surely there's capacity to the balarics?

[adfly]

The Thomson site has Palma bookable 4 weekly and Ibiza 1 weekly, so hopefully they are just a bit slow to be loaded.

[The Nutts Mutts]

If I remember correctly they didn't announce this summer's Ibiza route until November last year, so it seems a little early to have their schedule finalised this time round. Hopefully the flights will be loaded soon. If TOM are selling seats then that's a good sign. It would seem like a big drop to go from five seemingly successful flights to two destinations per week one summer, to nothing at all the next.

[stewyb]

Dropping these routes would only suggest that some other carrier is taking over because as you mention, they were popular this summer and the majority of time full

[Buster the Bear]

Okay having GNSS approaches, but how many airlines are approved to fly them generically? My guess, not many?

[Rivet Joint]

Rivet Joint

An ILS on 02 would be of dubious value due to the hill south of the airport. The resultant approach minima with the current 02 threshold wouldn't be anywhere near what is available on 20. The other issue is where would a localiser antenna be sited? Unless SOU could takeover the rail yard at the north end, a localiser inside the current boundary would impact on the ability to put in a useful 20 starter strip/runway extension.

An ideal solution to 02 would have been an MLS approach, which could have offered a curved approach to avoid some of the impact of the hill. Also much more stable than an ILS, and not requiring the expense of six monthly flight checks. Although intended to replace ILS, MLS was not universally liked and therefore never took off.

GPS/GNSS approaches are the way to go, as time goes by they will eventually offer CAT 3 minima, although not at SOU. Virtually no ground based equipment to purchase and maintain, so little capital expenditure for the bean counters to worry about, simples!

I'm currently involved in a long term project using GPS approaches which enables us to routinely land an aircraft on a 900mm centreline, on the touchdown zone, every time!

I've had a previous rant about GPS/GNSS approaches on the previous SOU thread. UK airports with no scheduled public transport flights have used them for years (Shoreham and Gloucestershire/Staverton being examples, with Halfpenny Green and Hverfordwest apparently due to shortly follow them).

Why in the 21st century is SOU screwing around with offset NDB and VOR/DME approaches for 02? Especially with the SAM VOR/DME known to have short time life expectancy.

Contrary to previous comment made in response to my past rant about GPS/GNSS approaches, alleging that specialised survey data was required, IMHO as both 02 & 20 already have non-precision instrument procedures, SOU already have the survey data necessary to support GPS/GNSS approaches for both runways. They also have the protection of controlled airspace for aircraft flying approaches, a luxury the previous mentioned airports do not have, and therefore needed to pay some for an expensive Safety Case to prove adequate risk mitigation.

NATS are desperate to retain the SOU contract, they have the ability to design GPS/GNSS approaches, time for SOU to squeeze them, again!

Great informative post as useual TCAS FAN. Clearly these obstacles are not going away anytime soon. Although saying that, LCY has the whole of Canary Wharf to circumnavigate. I think the real elephant in the room that prevents the likes of Vueling, Easy, Volotea from testing more than the odd route is the limited number of stands and associated infrastructure (tugs, stairs etc). SOU needs to speculate to accumulate but of course we all know they won't. Easy and even Ryanair have seemingly endless aircraft on order looking for somewhere to park and they will freely base them at numerous backwaters across Europe. Why would they not park one or a couple at an airport based in one of the most affluent counties in the country? They are not going to knock on SOU's door, the airport needs to give them the tools to make it happen. The long in the tooth MD is probably still dining off the fact Easy have announced one route when someone more dynamic would be seizing the opportunity to turn it into something far better to shout about.

[uptoncol]

Interesting to see that volotea have loaded the calendar down to September 2018 sou to ibz but no bookable dates ,on the drop down for Majorca only goes as far as this October 2017 .
It was this week last year they were put on sale for this year ,so perhaps they will go on sale very shortly

[RW20]

River Joint
It's difficult to see how more stands could be built, especially with the constrained space at the airport.
OK I can see the existing stands being enlarged,but to the detriment of fewer stands thus causing further problems with parking aircraft.
Maybe Easy and Ryanair can park there aircraft at Hurn,if MAG get there act together?
In the meantime it's the same old story to continue at Southampton.

[TCAS FAN]

Buster the Bear

A specific "approval" to fly a GNSS approach is not required. It is recognised by ICAO, and thereby as a Contracting State the UK accepts it as a permitted method of flying Instrument Approach Procedure. Given an alternative of an NDB or GNSS instrument approach procedure its no contest which one I'd fly.

Why are GA airfields paying to have GNSS approaches? Maybe because they are a cost effective method of providing an accurate IAP with little or no ground equipment to maintain?

All that is required, apart from SOU getting their act together and paying for the procedure design and CAA acceptance, are aircraft that are suitably equipped and crews that are suitably trained.

All, current generation of public transport aircraft are GPS enabled.

[MARKEYD]

With regard for next Summer 18 on sale at the moment

Thomson - TUI

Palma on Sat and Tue using Volotea ( they have also loaded but not on sale , Sun and Thu which are the Flybe departure days using DH8 and 195 respectively )

Ibiza on Thu using Volotea

Mahon on Sat using a Flybe DH8 charter

Alicante , Malaga , Verona and Faro are all loaded but not on sale , again all corresponds with Flybe departure days

Thomas Cook

Palma on Thu and Sun using the schedule flights of Flybe

Volotea have withdrawn the Ibiza schedule from sale they shared with Thomson

[shamrock7seal]

It's strange that every time I arrive into SOU my aircraft always does a full circle before landing, is this due to arrival altitude limits due proximity to London area control?

Also the departures terminal at SOU is shockingly small and uncomfortable - they really need to build a brand new two story terminal with air-bridges on the other side of the airfield if they are to reach 3m - the current terminal cannot take more simultaneous flights at peak times.

[Buster the Bear]

Interesting. I am aware of three airlines that whilst they might have approval to operate GNSS approaches will not do so, the reason being a 'crew training and approval' issue. That is not to say that if such an approach was available, airlines would not upgrade their crew to fly them. BA are doing them very regularly into Heathrow.

[MARKEYD]

Interesting to see that " Lolo flights " are back again advertising peak flights on a Tuesday during July / Aug to Skiathos of all places using Flybe !!

They say they are also looking at flights to Croatia / Greece and other obscure places during the summer months

No indication at the moment as to what aircraft they plan to use for this little adventure

[TCAS FAN]

shamrock7seal

The reason for the orbit is a lack of controlled airspace for the Solent CTA. IFR arrivals from the north have to stay above FL65 until about 12 miles from touchdown, far above the normal 3 degree glidepath for a 20 arrival. The result is a 360 degree turn to allow sufficient time for the aircraft to lose the excess height. What we used to call a "Winchester 2 arrival" - 'cos you got to see Winchester twice on the way in!

The nett result is extra fuel burn and yet more Co2 into the atmosphere and cost to the airlines.

Thought that environmental protection was/is part of the past & present airport operator's operating ethos?

So why cannot sufficient controlled airspace be provided for the Solent CTA? The original excuse was that there was a considerable amount of test flying at Dunsfold and Farnborough that required to have unimpeded transit to/from the west for air tests. How long ago did BAe move out of Dunsfold and MOD/ETPS move out of Farnborough?

During the Olympics temporary controlled airspace was provided to avoid having to fly the orbits, why not now as a permanent measure? Time for the airport operator (with NATS help) to kick off an Airspace Change Proposal to get the airspace needed? I would suggest that extension of the Solent CTA has more credibility than the recent outrageous airspace change proposals for Farnborough to provide controlled airspace to protect the multi millionaires who chose to use it for their private jets rather than take a schedule flight.

[Danny_R]

Interesting to see that " Lolo flights " are back again advertising peak flights on a Tuesday during July / Aug to Skiathos of all places using Flybe !!

They say they are also looking at flights to Croatia / Greece and other obscure places during the summer months

No indication at the moment as to what aircraft they plan to use for this little adventure

It seems quite telling that there is no mention of them on either the Manchester or Southampton airport websites but they're selling flights from both, it would suggest neither airport wants to put their name to it incase it goes pear shaped again. Seems to be nothing at all online about them except for an article about the failed Bournemouth to Skiathos attempt.

Not the best impression for potential customers either when have flybe written as the operator in the search but the Air Europa logo instead :ugh:

[RW20]

Shamrock7seal
It's true that when I arrived back from Ibiza in June on a 717,we had to que outside the terminal to pass customs,indeed if there had been another 100+ seater arrival then it would have been chaotic.
Any further passenger increases will just underline Southampton terminal problems,the only way I think could improve capacity would be to build up,otherwise it's problems ahead!

[shamrock7seal]

Thanks TCAS FAN for the explanation of the orbit before landing, I can't think of any other airport in the U.K. That has this 'problem' which must be uncomfortable during stormy weather!

RW20 - will be interesting to see the easyJet A320's with 180 pax squeezing in there.

[canberra97]

757's and 320's have used the airport in the past so it's not as if Southampton hasn't coped before but I agree that the situation isn't perfect and I the only way is up when it comes to any terminal expansion which should be a priority in the foreseeable future.

[adfly]

Seems like a good time to put this together. Shouldn't be many further changes now. Hopefully it is fairly accurate, if anyone has any more details on Ski charters etc let me know and I'll add them on. Looks like a pretty flat winter, with gains from easyJet and Powdair offset by Flybe reductions.

Aer Lingus Regional

Cork - 4 weekly AT7

Aurigny

Alderney - 14-16 weekly D28

BMI Regional

Munich - 12 weekly ER3/4

easyJet Switzerland

Geneva (New) - 3 weekly 320 (From 14/12)

Flybe

Aberdeen - 11 weekly J41 (Via LBA) (Eastern) / 1 weekly Q400(?)
Alicante - 2 weekly Q400
Amsterdam - 26 weekly Q400
Belfast City - 19 weekly Q400
Bergerac - 3-7 weekly Q400
Bordeaux - 3 weekly Q400 (15/12 - 01/01)
Chambery - 3 weekly Q400
Dublin - 21-25 weekly Q400
Dusseldorf - 6-7 weekly Q400
Edinburgh - 31 weekly Q400
Geneva - 3 weekly Q400
Glasgow - 26 weekly Q400
Guernsey - 29 weekly AT4/7 (Blue Islands)
Jersey - 32 weekly AT4/7 (Blue Islands)
La Rochelle - 1-2 weekly (21/12 - 02/01)
Leeds/Bradford - 19 weekly J41 (Eastern)
Limoges - 3 weekly (18/12 - 01/01)
Lyon - 4 weekly Q400 (Ends 18/02)
Manchester - 36 weekly Q400
Nantes - 4-6 weekly Q400
Newcastle - 18 weekly Q400
Paris CDG - 12 weekly Q400
Rennes - 4 weekly Q400 (16/12-01/01)

KLM Cityhopper

Amsterdam - 11-12 weekly E75

Powdair

Sion (New) - 4 weekly CR2 (From 15/02)

Ski/Santa Charters

Chambery - 1 weekly Flybe Q400 (Ski Total)
Ivalo - 12/12 (Santa's Lapland)
Enontekio - 09/12 (Transun), 20/12 (Canterbury Travel)


Overall

Flybe weekly departures: 300-329 (W16/17 - 311-324)
Other airlines weekly departures: 48-51 (W16/17 - 60-61)
Overall weekly departures: 349-380 (W16/17 - 372-385)
Overall average daily departures:50-54 (W16/17 - 53-55)

[RW20]

Adfly
Good analyses,so with Powdair likely to implode,it seems the airport is on a downturn?
Prehaps it has reached its full potential with existing infrastructure?
Interesting times,await with batted breath on any airfield developments!

[stewyb]

Any more news/rumours on Volotea for next summer? Thomson flights are showing but Volotea already loaded all other route schedules, yet nothing ex SOU!

[canberra97]

Adfly

Haven't KLM recently announced an additional flight on Sunday mornings from the start of the winter schedule making it a total of 13 weekly flights!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Adfly, in addition to the list above Flybe seem to be flying direct flights between ABZ and SOU on weekends throughout the winter. From what I can tell there appears to be a one-way ABZ-SOU on a Friday evening, and then a one-way SOU-ABZ on a Sunday evening. Positioning an aircraft or a crew perhaps?
Are Austrian operating charters to Innsbruck this year?

[LBIA]

Flybe/Eastern SOU-LBA-ABZ flights are operated by BAe Jetstream 41's not Saab 2000's

[canberra97]

I have tried to search the Inghams website to see if they are offering flights from Southampton to Innsbruck for 2018 but found nothing even though it has Southampton listed as a departure airport on their homepage.

I have to mention that there website is terrible to navigate and I for one would easily search another operator if I was personally looking to book a ski holiday.

[adfly]

Looks as if the KLM flight was just for the summer. Showing as 12 weekly for most of the winter and 11 weekly in Jan/Feb (no Sat). Will add the other updates as well.

[Buster the Bear]

Why are Powdair likely to implode? They have just bought into Backbone Aviation who are supplying the CJ200s.

[Buster the Bear]

Doesn't appear to be a flight on Sat 6th Jan to Innbruck, or any other random weekend date I input. Seefeld is just up the road from INN.

http://i65.tinypic.com/ofwyfd.jpg

[MARKEYD]

Adfly

Good work there ,

Flybe have a charter to CMF on a Sunday am for Ski Total throughout the winter

Defiantly no Inghams Ski charters with Austrian this winter

[gkmeech]

Just received this from Volotea ....

Yes, we should fly from Southampton next summer. Generally flights are scheduled approximately 6/7 months in advance. Best regards, Bruno

[stewyb]

New Easy Way to Geneva Launched from Southampton Airport | InTheSnow (http://www.inthesnow.com/new-easy-way-geneva-launched-southampton-airport/)

[shamrock7seal]

They seem to use a picture of a completely empty departure lounge! If only!

The 'compact' terminal is going to be difficult for some to take.

However, these are good problems to have - a full to bursting terminal in need of expansion. Much better versus the near empty departure lounges of Bournemouth Airport just 25mins down the road.

[EastMids]

New route: FlyLoLo SOU-JSI (Skiathos) from July 3 to October 2, 2018 operated by a Flybe EMB195
(just had an email from the SOU press office)

[gkmeech]

New route alert

New airline, Flylolo, have announced flights to Skiathos starting July 2018. This will be the first time that Southampton Airport has offered flights to Greece

For more info visit: http://bit.ly/2yrgA5p

[davidjohnson6]

Flylolo are just a ticketing agent and not an airline. They had a go (possibly under a different brand name) at selling flights to Greece last year but in the end had to cancel all flights.

[Buster the Bear]

Using Flybe and for two adults and a 14 year old inc baggage, £2000! Flyhihi!

[MARKEYD]

Not sure where the 195 aircraft is coming from as the Flybe 195 is used for the Tuesday Palma service , unless they swap the planes around and use a DCH8 from July to Palma ( Flybe Schedule only up to June at the moment )

Also was wondering if it might be passenger / weight restricted as it must be the longest route from Southampton now ( 1451 miles ) especially as it leaves at 3pm in the heat of the summer months of July / Aug

The flight also lands quite late back into SOU given any ATC delays might be an issue as well ?

The Echo says its a 100 seat 195 , could be a misprint though

[adfly]

I hope this attempt from lolofligths does actually go ahead. '100 seat E195' is either poor journalism (as per from the echo...) or possibly a suggestion it will be restricted to 100 seats for runway performance reasons?

Skiathos is an interesting destination so it would be great to see it succeed.

[stewyb]

How many E195's will Flybe still have once the 3 disappear mid year next to Stobart? and are the 2 that are at Southend now being returned to mainstream Flybe? Lots of chartering going on from SOU for next summer what with Menorca and now Skiathos and makes you wonder where all the frames are coming from

[BOHEuropean]

Flybe currently have 9x E195s, with the 3x going to Stobart Air that leaves the company with 6x next summer. A further 4x will leave the fleet during 2019 according to their annual investors report.

[IB4138]

Change in management may change that disposal.

The "sun" routes have been reinstated.

[Wycombe]

what with Menorca

Pretty sure I read already that the MAH charter will be on the Dash from SOU.

[Jerry123]

How many E195's will Flybe still have once the 3 disappear mid year next to Stobart? and are the 2 that are at Southend now being returned to mainstream Flybe? Lots of chartering going on from SOU for next summer what with Menorca and now Skiathos and makes you wonder where all the frames are coming from

They'll have 6 left by next summer. 2 based in Cardiff 1 in Doncaster 1 in Exeter 1 for NQY-LGW and 1 spare.
They do have 4 E175 arriving in 2019.

[rog747]

Pretty sure I read already that the MAH charter will be on the Dash from SOU.

blimey last time i did props to the Balearics was when i was with BMA
we did LPL-PMI and BHX-MAH with a Viscount in the late 70's early 80's

both on a Friday night pleasurably 4h.45m sojourn enjoying a hot dinner :ok:

[rog747]

New route: FlyLoLo SOU-JSI (Skiathos) from July 3 to October 2, 2018 operated by a Flybe EMB195
(just had an email from the SOU press office)

best of luck with this
lolo flights tried BOH and MAN but the BOH did not sell and was canned - not sure how MAN went

[gkmeech]

blimey last time i did props to the Balearics was when i was with BMA
we did LPL-PMI and BHX-MAH with a Viscount in the late 70's early 80's

both on a Friday night pleasurably 4h.45m sojourn enjoying a hot dinner :ok:

Did the Flybe Q400 to PMI in September. Lovely flight

[Flitefone]

best of luck with this
lolo flights tried BOH and MAN but the BOH did not sell and was canned - not sure how MAN went

So far as I know, the flights (from BOH to Santorini) were never actually on sale, Mrs FlightFone tried to book on-line and with several travel agents, several times. It was never possible to buy tickets. Fly LoLo did not get the basics right. FF

[Danny_R]

best of luck with this
lolo flights tried BOH and MAN but the BOH did not sell and was canned - not sure how MAN went

Seems both MAN and BOH flights were cancelled citing low sales 2 months before they were due to start according to some press articles, few topics on trip advisor about it and people having their flights cancelled and then having to pay a lot more to rebook with others, this seems to be attempt no.2

[LAX_LHR]

Fly lolo having another go at MAN, GLA and LGW to TFS and ACE this winter, but on very random dates in December using Air Europa.

[MARKEYD]

Flybe have changed the Palma service operating on a Tuesday afternoon from next July to operate to Skiathos instead , hence the mystery is solved as of where the aircraft is coming from to operate this new route

Flybe will now operate just 3 times a week to Palma from next July and Volotea at the moment will operate 2 times a week on behalf of TUI

[stewyb]

Still no confirmation from Volotea of either Palma or Ibiza on their website, is this because they are not flying scheduled services next year and instead only charters via TUI?

[canberra97]

It would be a real shame if Volotea are not operating scheduled flights from SOU in 2018 and only flying charter flights on behalf of TUI.

With the huge and quite wealthy catchment area of SOU the airport shouldn't have to be in this position every year regarding flights being continued if anything it should be quite the opposite with the airport announcing new airlines and new routes.

In the long term the only hope for SOU is if EasyJet make any considerations into expanding from the airport as the large catchment would easily welcome any move by the airline with passengers having a committed airline to the routes that they want to fly to.

[gkmeech]

As I said in post #73 .... Just received this from Volotea ....

Yes, we should fly from Southampton next summer. Generally flights are scheduled approximately 6/7 months in advance. Best regards, Bruno

[canberra97]

In all fairness a lot of airlines or companies for that matter make statements like that all the time but none of us will actually know until the schedules are finally released which I would have thought they would have been by now hence my post.

I am a bit cynical and I never believe to much until it's actually official but hopefully Volotea will announce something soon so that your reply from them can be justified.

[RW20]

Southampton could be so much better with investment!, unfortunately this hasn't happened,and not likely to happen in the near future!
Really is the airport going to survive longtime? It's debateble!
One debateable matter why did the Faro flight divert today to Hurn?
The wind was gusting to 40 knots at Both airports and at 230 degrees direction should have been manageable for a 20 landing?

[Jersey32D]

Crew reported windsheer on approach.

[KelvinD]

BBC reported today that TUI will be operating flights to Menorca from May until September 2018.
South Live: Tuesday 24 October - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-hampshire-41719638)

[canberra97]

KelvinD

Menorca from Southampton with TUI and flights to be operated by Flybe Dash 8 were announced a few weeks ago and has only probably been recently picked up by news outlets such as the link you provided.

See post 23.

[Rivet Joint]

Does anyone know where you can find a list of what aircraft can operate out of SOU? I am particularly curious about the CRJ. I know AF used CRJ-200s into SOU but I wondered if the larger versions can operate.

[TCAS FAN]

Ref post #22

Rivet Joint or anyone, Autumn has almost been and gone what news on the announcement from the airport operator?

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
The longer in time there is no announcement ,the more sceptical I am on it being of any significance, especially any airside development.Surely this is the time for Airport to move forward with investment,or does it stagger on and lose the opportunities that are waiting as London airports reach saturation.

[canberra97]

I am also in anticipation of that so called announcement from the management at Southampton Airport that was first mentioned in post 22!

[Expressflight]

Does anyone know where you can find a list of what aircraft can operate out of SOU? I am particularly curious about the CRJ. I know AF used CRJ-200s into SOU but I wondered if the larger versions can operate.

Yes that shouldn't be a problem. It's normally the wet landing distance for the larger CRJs that's the limiting factor on short runways due to their high landing speeds but as SOU has a grooved runway that wouldn't normally affect operations.

[Rivet Joint]

Thanks Expressflight. There are a few CRJ operators around Europe that could look to serve the odd route at SOU. I suspect that the CRJ-900 might be too much for the runway though.

In terms of the expansion, it is starting to look like it is a case of mr bigmouth strikes again. Certainly It cannot have anything to do with EZY as it's cutting it fine now before they start operating. Wouldn't it have been a great show of enthusiasm to announce some significant airside investment at the time of EZY's testing of the water. Show EZY that SOU will invest if they do. Red funnel are also owned by pension funds and have recently announced a string of multi million pound investments. The current pension funds have bought in recently as well, a bit like the ones that own SOU. Not sure why SOU for nearly a decade has stood still. Is it the fact they have no competition in BOH? Is it the fact that for that decade the same man has been MD? I'm interested to know what other people's thoughts are. The only small piece of hope is that SOU have been employing lots of management roles lately, which could point to a large project being on the horizon. Saying that, most these big operations have managers that are in charge of departments that do not seem to undertake any actual work.

[Expressflight]

Thanks Expressflight. There are a few CRJ operators around Europe that could look to serve the odd route at SOU. I suspect that the CRJ-900 might be too much for the runway though.


Even the CRJ-900 should be OK at SOU. It's grooved runway should mean that WET WET WET is rarely declared and it is only in those conditions that the CRJ-900 LDR could exceed the SOU LDA.

[southside bobby]

Expressflight..
No wish for a debate & to recognize you are better informed than most when it comes to R/W performance.
However your last post I regard as simplistic by stating WET WET WET with grooved runway operations is rarely declared.
Other factors are surely in play?.

[southside bobby]

Expressflight..
As an example STN has a grooved R/W but regularly declares WET WET WET in precipitation.

[Expressflight]

That's interesting as I have always thought that a grooved runway was rarely declared as being WWW and that was one of the main benefits of grooving. Perhaps someone at SOU can say what the situation is there.

I've never known LCY to suffer diversions away due to being declared WWW and I would have thought that airport might be rather critical to some aircraft types in that respect.

Sorry for the thread drift and not wishing to prolong this discussion more than necessary.

[Planespeaking]

Also not wishing to prolong this discussion for too long but I guess it is apposite to the SOU situation. The old SEN runway had a friction course overlaying the mainbase following an aquaplaning situation. The new extended runway is not grooved to my knowledge although surfaced with the latest top course. Air traffic always advise incoming the runway is Damp Damp Damp or Wet Wet Wet.
I would have thought it would be good to offer that information anyway regardless of runway length or width.

[RW20]

Expressflight

Although Southampton has a grooved runway the runway conditions are reported on ATIS
in wet conditions,and regularly stated as wet wet wet!.
Also I believe that the runway is due for resurfacing very soon.

[Expressflight]

Having done a little research it seems the deciding factor regarding the LDR on a declared WET WET WET grooved runway is what the airline's SOPs say on the subject. Some (perhaps most?) allow grooved runways in that condition to be treated as DRY. Presumably the manufacturer's Performance manual is the source of that permission being carried over into SOPs.

Nice to have learnt something on here today.

[adfly]

Took a while, but they have finally appeared. 224,822 passengers handled, up 3% on last year. Some route breakdowns below:

Alicante - 118 pax / 100% (Not sure if I have the days of operation correct for this? Based on no Thurs/Sat flights)
Bastia - 59 pax / 76%
Cork - 62 pax / 86%
Dusseldorf - 48 pax / 61%
Faro - 107 pax / 90%
Ibiza - 114 pax / 91%
Malaga - 111 pax / 94%
Munich - 19 pax / 38% (Based on 12 weekly and all E145, not sure if either was the case!?)
Paris CDG - 59 pax / 76%
Perpignan - 66 pax / 84%
Rodez - 33 pax / 66% (It improved in the end!)
Verona - 68 pax / 88%

Data from: https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-Airport-data/Airport-data-2017-08/

[The Nutts Mutts]

Southampton Airport have announced via their Twitter page that they have launched a Beer of the Month campaign in partnership with Bowman Ales.

We've all been waiting for the BIG announcement... maybe this was it?

PS Adfly, I think BMI were 7 weekly to Munich in July and August.

[TCAS FAN]

Expressflight & southside bobby

On the contrary, unless anything has recently changed, WET/WET/WET is frequently reported. The runway is not cambered, it has a crossfall with drains on the east side. These do not have ever worked as they should with water often sitting in the grooves, having nowhere to drain to. Added to this was an annoying practice by Airside Ops of a damp runway (ie matt appearance) being reported WET/WET/WET due to water being thrown up by the inspecting vehicle and splashing under the wheel arches. Lost many Air Europa B738 arrivals due to this as they often were too heavy to land on a wet runway. Happy days!

[TCAS FAN]

The Nutts Mutts

.......or maybe follow BOH management's announcement many years ago of a new ATM outside the Terminal Building!

[MARKEYD]

Looks like Southampton has been removed completely from the booking engine of Volotea no mention anywhere of it now

[stewyb]

Doesn't look good admittedly. That will be a large reduction for the airport in summer sun capacity to the Med! Any other plans afoot?

[canberra97]

That's really disappointing news regarding Volotea if that's the case it's quite a big deal really considering the loads for this summer especially with the addition of Ibiza.

I along with many others had high hopes for Volotea at SOU and was looking to them to expand not retreat:-(

If only SOU could find a long term airline that's committed from flying from the airport to the sunshine destinations that are obviously in demand that's not including Flybe.

I posed the question regarding Volotea a few posts back but a certain poster replied back and he seemed to have had great faith in a certain Bruno from Volotea who replied back to him, GKmeech posts 73 and 96.

[stewyb]

Maybe this Bruno chap was referring to the TUI charters that Volotea are supposed to be operating. That still leaves a reduction of x 1 scheduled service per week to Ibiza and x 2 to Palma, although I guess Flybe have mitigated this slightly by offering an extra weekly flight to Palma up to start July, when the E195 is then allocated to Skiathos!

[canberra97]

I hope Ibiza is picked up by an alternative airline as it's definitely a destination in demand, I find it unbelievable that SOU with it's large and fairly wealthy catchment area can't support destinations such as this.

There are so many unserved destinations that could easily be flown from SOU regardless of the runway and airport infrastructure limitations.

[Rivet Joint]

Southampton Airport have announced via their Twitter page that they have launched a Beer of the Month campaign in partnership with Bowman Ales.

We've all been waiting for the BIG announcement... maybe this was it?

PS Adfly, I think BMI were 7 weekly to Munich in July and August.

Ha ha, nothing should surprise us with that lot in charge. I guess it beats the usual upgrade of the urinal blocks!

[RW20]

Canberra 97
Ibiza 2018 is fully bookable on Thursdays flying Volotea,plus Palma Saturday and Sunday via Volotea,Tuesday Palma via Flybe.
So not a total disaster,but one step back!
The sooner Easy take on Majorca the better!

[Rivet Joint]

Looks like Southampton has been removed completely from the booking engine of Volotea no mention anywhere of it now

Hopefully this is only a temporary administrative error but it doesn't look good. Maybe they are only going to operate via the tour operators like another poster has said. It seems strange though as the loads looked good, and the tickets were not exactly cheap! Surely airlines cannot possibly expect to pitch up and in the first year make a killing? This is the kind of operation that needs to build year after year and probably establish a loyal and lucrative following. We all know the catchment for SOU is a wealthy one, with people willing to pay more to use a local airport. Air Berlin and Vueling also only gave it a year before disappearing. Not sure why low cost carriers do not give SOU a few years to show its potential? They seem to at other bases (Volotea has a base at Nantes!). I can only assume it's the crap airside facilities at SOU which make the operators think that a sizeable base could never be possible. It's a fact that the low cost operators are moving to larger aircraft and that SOU does not have the stands for them. There is the frequent fog (ok not SOUs fault but lights and landing equipment could be improved), the fact that the runway is too short, doesn't seem to drain properly and the quite ridiculous backtracking. Over the course of a day, the waiting for departing and arriving aircraft to use the runway also as a taxiway will obviously back up operations. All these delays, diversions and cancellations must add up to serious money (hotels, additional landing fees, navigation costs etc) for what are thrifty operators. These limiting factors must put off the low cost operators as time is money for them. They cannot afford for the knock on effects of repeated delays from sub-standard facilities. Let's be honest SOU is not up to it and clearly the management aren't going to do anything about it. The MD would put Sepp Blatter to shame when it comes to overstaying his welcome.

[BOHEuropean]

Ibiza 2018 is fully bookable on Thursdays flying Volotea,plus Palma Saturday and Sunday via Volotea,Tuesday Palma via Flybe.

Available on the TUI website:

Tuesdays:

Arr 09:50 / Dep 10:15 PMI-SOU-PMI Volotea

Thursdays:

Arr 10:30 / Dep 10:55 IBZ-SOU-IBZ Volotea

Saturdays:

Arr 15:05 / Dep 15:30 PMI-SOU-PMI Volotea

The others (like the Sunday Palma) are listed as Flybe

[gkmeech]

I response to multiple posts regarding Volotea, it is not an administrative error. SOU is not on their booking engine at present because there are no flights you can book. Once they announce their summer 2018 schedule SOU will re-appear.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Are you sure? Have they not already announced their summer 2018 schedule from other airports?
I've got a feeling the flights are off sale because they're being discontinued.

[stewyb]

Their S18 schedule was released a few weeks back so not sure why it's being suggested that they are still to be loaded. SOU has disappeared from the website altogether including the route map, hence why it is being thought of that Volotea are discontinuing. My conclusion would be TUI charters only!

[Albert Hall]

Volotea's slot submission for SOU in S18 has only the Tue/Sat PMI and Thu IBZ charters. If they are intending to operate additional flights as scheduled services, they are doing a very good job of disguising their intentions - no slots applied for, no flights on sale etc etc. I'd say it's not happening.

[RW20]

Albert Hall
This is surely a big slap in the face for Southampton Management,not surprising though as the continued lack of airside development has finally come home to roost!
The prospect of moving any further on from 2m Pax looks remote,in fact if Flybe continue to retract on the sun routes I can see a downturn looming

[SWBKCB]

or Volotea (who actually know what they were making), just decided the numbers weren't good enough.

[MARKEYD]

The Volotea fares were quite high especially in peak summer months

Could it be over capacity in the area as well , Bournemouth had 12 flights a week to Palma in July / Aug and saw 19 , 000 passengers use the route in August

[Jn14:6]

Markey.
My wife and I flew Volotea to PMI , in August, for a basic £75 each, return! So, not always expensive!

[canberra97]

I response to multiple posts regarding Volotea, it is not an administrative error. SOU is not on their booking engine at present because there are no flights you can book. Once they announce their summer 2018 schedule SOU will re-appear.

I do appreciate your continued optimism I really do but you have to admit that your good old friend Bruno from Volotea was stringing you along as any good PR would do when responding to an anomalous email.

What the hell do the airports management discuss every morning in their daily briefings it's definitely not about regaining or securing new airlines.

Message for EasyJet

Come on EasyJet you have five A319s leaving the fleet this year so keep them and base them at SOU as the airport needs you and we might even give a huge incentive to come here.

[MARKEYD]

Perhaps Aer Europa might be considered by Southampton if its not to late

They are operating the Palma charters on a EMB 195 from Jersey for next summer season on behalf of a local tour operator who had in previous years used Volotea B717

[Rivet Joint]

I do appreciate your continued optimism I really do but you have to admit that your good old friend Bruno from Volotea was stringing you along as any good PR would do when responding to an anomalous email.

What the hell do the airports management discuss every morning in their daily briefings it's definitely not about regaining or securing new airlines.

Message for EasyJet

Come on EasyJet you have five A319s leaving the fleet this year so keep them and base them at SOU as the airport needs you and we might even give a huge incentive to come here.

EZY are not going to keep a small sub-fleet, especially for SOU. All of us on here can see that EZY are moving to an A320 fleet which is not going to work from SOU. Especially not for a base. The question should be to SOU from EZY. What are you going to do to make us stay and grow? Hopefully they have learnt from Volotea's lost interest that you need to provide the environment for these airlines to operate smoothly. Can anyone tell me what SOU has done in the last 5 years? 10 years even? The answer is nothing. Great catchment area, great transport connections, quality airlines sniffing around and absolutely woeful management.

[Plane.Silly]

Might be a silly question, but am i correct in assuming the takeoff run required for an A320 is too long for SOU runway? Also guessing there's nowhere it can be extended to?

[SWBKCB]

Hopefully they have learnt from Volotea's lost interest that you need to provide the environment for these airlines to operate smoothly.

There seems to be an underlying assumption from many contributors that SOU is an untapped gold mine and that by fixing the infrastructure issues the airlines will come. Is there any evidence to support this? Any evidence that airfield issues impacted on Volotea's hand full of flights a week? Diversions, delays due to backtracking, etc

Airlines tend to find a way to work round issues if there is money to be made. LTN, BRS, LBA are hardly without their issues.

[01475]

And indeed, rather than what the airport does, what is the general economic environment doing? Actually, there's a lot of problems brewing for airlines... and that's with oil prices low!

[rog747]

air Europa with a 738 is not much good at SOU too - runway too short

[MARKEYD]

Was talking about Aer Europa using the EMB 195 , better suited if they were interested in launching from SOU

[RW20]

SWBKCB

Unless there is airside development at Southampton,and we are talking Taxiways,Runway extension,and vital :expanded stands,then Southampton future looks very uncertain.Its abundantly clear the management team needs a major shake up ,it's a great shame,but the potential is there,but it's not being currently exploited.

[SWBKCB]

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Volotea aren't coming back in their own right, which of these points have had an impact?

[rog747]

Was talking about Aer Europa using the EMB 195 , better suited if they were interested in launching from SOU

ah thanks - cannot keep up with the airlines going small planes lol

[gkmeech]

Might be a silly question, but am i correct in assuming the takeoff run required for an A320 is too long for SOU runway? Also guessing there's nowhere it can be extended to?

This assumption is incorrect. I flew to Majorca in the Iberworld A320 on a couple of occasions

[Wycombe]

I flew to Majorca in the Iberworld A320 on a couple of occasions

A Spanair one used to operate to TFS also, but tech-stopped somewhere in mainland Spain going south IIRC.

[Groundloop]

Come on EasyJet you have five A319s leaving the fleet this year so keep them and base them at SOU as the airport needs you


then Southampton future looks very uncertain.

Is any of this true? Surely SOU is doing all right at the moment - ie not operating at a loss? Why should they spend a fortune on improvements which may not lead to much? Lots of complaints about SOU management but they must at least have a vague idea of what they are doing. Ducks for cover!:confused:

[IB4138]

A Spanair one used to operate to TFS also, but tech-stopped somewhere in mainland Spain going south IIRC.

Flight was opperated for Airtours I think and tech stop was in Nantes (France).

[stewyb]

[/I][/B]



Is any of this true? Surely SOU is doing all right at the moment - ie not operating at a loss? Why should they spend a fortune on improvements which may not lead to much? Lots of complaints about SOU management but they must at least have a vague idea of what they are doing. Ducks for cover!:confused:

Agree to a point and for what its worth, the following I believe could happen in the near term. Runway resurfacing due next year and will be done along with northern taxiway added, runway starter strip to the north will not happen immediately and may/may not be carried out some time in the future. Stands 1-5 will be realigned to accommodate A320 size before S18 as don't think a big job. Easyjet will take up the slack on Volotea's withdrawal and operate 2/3 per week from its summer seasonal base in PMI and to also test the water for future routes. I'm probably way off the mark but quite feasible that the above could happen!

[canberra97]

It could happen and hopefully some of what you describe may happen if only half of it happened it would be a major improvement, I share your optimism:-)

[Plane.Silly]

This assumption is incorrect. I flew to Majorca in the Iberworld A320 on a couple of occasions

So technically, this means EZY with their A320's could still operate from SOU. Particularly if they're only on short sectors (2 1/2hr tops) they could just go full throttle and not worry on fuel burn?

If this be the case, what's stopping EZY? besides the useless management

[Jerry123]

Maybe they just don't want to operate from SOU. They might not see a business case for it. SOU would probably be better off trying to attract BACF.

[EK77WNCL]

The A319 has immense takeoff performance, and could probably operate quite reliably out of Southampton to at least the south of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece, if not the Canaries and Cyprus.

I believe the A320neo also has rather impressive takeoff performance, but not quite to the same standard. If EZY ever get the Cseries... SOU (and a lot of other minor bases/operations) could be onto a real winner

I wish EZY and SOU the best and hope it turns into something good, SOU is one of my favourite UK airport. It was just, hands down, a lovely experience from start to finish

[SWBKCB]

they could just go full throttle and not worry on fuel burn?

You might want to consider the "L" in LCC!

If this be the case, what's stopping EZY? besides the useless management

Apart from the physical constraints already mentioned, how about their largest base 80 miles up the road?

[stewyb]

I don't think the odd additional route ex SOU i.e. Palma, Nice, Krakow, is going to concern EZY/Gatwick too much!

[Harry Wayfarers]

Palma, Nice and Krakow would take less than one airframe to operate so what would be the point?

[stewyb]

Can't the aircraft come from other EZY bases in to SOU, for example the summer base in PMI that already operates in to 11 of Easyjet uk airports?

[Harry Wayfarers]

And from Nice and Krakow?

[stewyb]

And from Nice and Krakow?

Based aircraft and W patterns operated from other airports would surely work

[Harry Wayfarers]

As another poster pointed out EZY's largest operating base, a London airport, is just 80 miles up the road whilst EZY also have bases at two other London airports.

SOU's biggest selling point is it's direct rail link with London, it takes away passengers that may otherwise utilise London airports.

Unless an operator wishes to poach London passengers to a south coast airport, which surely EZY does not, then there would be little point in them operating there.

However if EZY wishes to catch passengers from the south coast from a south coast airport that offers appropriate facilities, particularly a runway length, then I'm sorry to suggest that such an airport would be BOH.

[IB4138]

BOH has however inadequate public transport links.

It can take aprox the same time, aprox 2 hours, to get from SOU by rail/road to BOH as it does from SOU to LGW. Don't try to get to BOH before 08.00 by public transport either. The first bus does not leave Bournemouth rail station until 07.12.

Taxi/car is the only way. Car Hire office opening hours are restricted as well.

[stewyb]

Passenger stats for September out, rolling year on year to September 2017 up 11.3%!!

[RW20]

Excellent performance,can we hope for the long overdue development announcement?
Surely airside improvements are on the cards!

[SOUSpotter96]

Noticed today EazyJet have placed banners advertising their GVA route on the fence facing the M27, not seen an airline at SOU do this before, hopefully generates enough interest that EZY would like to return after this winter.

[canberra97]

That's a great site for EasyJet to have advertising.

The large rolling advertising screen at the Woolston side of the Itchen Bridge used to have a large Vueling advertisement when they operated from SOU perhaps EasyJet could advertise there as well as it's located in a prime position.

I hope the word gets about regarding EasyJet at SOU which if so can only help regarding any possible expansion from the airline in the near future.

[Jerry123]

If they did look at expansion then I wonder if they would use non based aircraft using W patterns on a few of the sun routes?

[canberra97]

Without jumping into the thread I suggest you read back through the recent posts as the same question has been suggested by various posters on numerous occasions.

[Nakata77]

When easyJet first started BOH-GVA the same rumour and gossip spread about other routes and sure enough they tried Krakow and Grenoble - for one season never to return again. However BOH-GVA has remained. I see the same for SOU.

Bournemouth is on average 38mins from SOU on the train. Not sure where 2hours came from.

[IB4138]

Take a look at the bus timetable, start and finish times from Bournemouth station to/from the airport. They are no use for early flight departures or late arrivals. The buses are also hourly and take 44 minutes. Their connectability with trains is also not good.

[stewyb]

Earth moving, diggers and porta cabins on far side of airfield, what's going on?

[GCILover]

I posted about this in comment #27 back on 25 Sept. Could this be the start of much needed improvement?

[SOUSpotter96]

That's a great site for EasyJet to have advertising.

I think it is too!, the thousands of motorists in rush hour who will have time to notice and read that. Not to mention everyone else who will too. It would be great if they could utilise the advertising board in woolston, especially since there are a fair amount of bus routes which go this way too. Speaking of which, I noticed EZY advertising on local bus’s too.

[SOUSpotter96]

Maybe the equipment is there for resurfacing the RWY, I hope it’s there for major improvements though. Would like at least another taxi way on the NE side of the airfield with potentially another stand to accommodate larger aircraft. (We can only hope).

[TCAS FAN]

SOUspotter96

Don't hold your breath, no evidence of any planning application to Eastleigh Borough Council. Consequently it looks as if any work will be confined to resurfacing.

[stewyb]

Any improvement would be welcome and as discussed many a time, let's hope they include the northern taxiway from stand 14 out to the runway in with the resurfacing work!

[stewyb]

The airport have just posted this response on Twitter, 'unfortunately there won’t be any scheduled flights operated by Volotea in the summer. We’re always working with airlines to expand our routes so please keep an eye on social media for new announcements', is there something in the pipeline?

[canberra97]

Don't get all excited stewyb that's what PR departments always say it means sod all.

[stewyb]

You are probably right but you never know!

[canberra97]

That is true in every day life but with respect to anyone who says 'you never know' that person is probably expecting something to happen!

[stewyb]

Apparently work being carried out on the far side of the airfield is currently for drainage and transmissometer installation (whatever that is!)

[RW20]

stewyb

This is for RVR measuring,most major airports have them.
Are we going to get any significant much needed airside developments?
sadly it looks increasingly unlightly,so more delays,apron constraints,and no further progress.

[stewyb]

Is this a visual aid upgrade that the airport has not previously had?

[RW20]

It could be a forward scatter sensor,a much more accurate measurement for Vis under 2km!

[SOUSpotter96]

Well that’s a positive for less delays if it is that. Unfortunately doesn’t seem like we’re going to be getting that news we’d all hoped for though.

[destinationsky]

A transmissometer measures runway visual range. Works in a similar way to radar. In simple terms the laser (or similar) bounces off fog etc and measures how far the beam gets thus giving you a visual range. This will allow for an accurate viz measurement which will increase resilience in fog etc.

The way they do it currently is stand at a set height off the ground (on steps located at North/South end) and count lights. However many lights you see translates into distance. The new system saves the ops team standing on a cold and wet set of steps!

I have had a bit of exposure to the costs of these systems and they're not cheap but when you bear in mind they are accurate to CM's, that will mean the difference between diverting if the RVR is out of limits to being able to land.

Its the start of airside investment. The drainage improvement is required for environmental reasons and these projects take precedence over anything else

[inOban]

Presumably so that de-icing or other chemicals don't escape into the river?

[destinationsky]

Correct. They don't anyway (regular testing is carried out by a third party) but the upgraded drainage will ensure that they don't for the future.

[stewyb]

DestinationSky

Any further snippets you can pass on as to 'the start of airside investment' as you put it?

[destinationsky]

I'm afraid not, sorry! I am aware of a few things but nothing confirmed

[RW20]

destinationsky

Thank you for the informative info,you say it's the start of airside investment,I would say it's catching up with essential equipment that all regional airports have( including Hurn)and have had for years!
Can Southampton take the necessary steps forward in airside investment to progress?
Now that's a big question!

[Flitefone]

Have been around for decades but increasingly commonplace now for precision approach support in low visibility. If you want to know more, Skybrary is usually a good place to look:

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Automated_Cloud_Base_and_Visibility_Measurement#Visibility_M easurement

[RW20]

Ok I can see this will provide accurate info,but I can't see being a great aid to Southampton in poor visibility,I believe Southampton minima in poor visibility is greater then many regional airports,is it 800mtrs rvr ?,most are 600 rvr cat 1.

[SOUSpotter96]

FlightRadar24 showing that tomorrow’s KLM flight will be a 737. Does anyone know if there’s any truth to this or if it’s a glitch?.

[stewyb]

FR24 is in fact showing a 737 daily now on the late flight, not sure if this is correct but could they be increasing capacity with the 700 series (132 seats)?

[The Nutts Mutts]

I'd imagine that this is a glitch. Booking engine shows an E175 tomorrow afternoon, and although I think there is potential for the route to support a 737 on some flights, particularly on/around weekends, going to a 737 every evening is a significant upguage of capacity which I'd have thought would have been announced officially somewhere were it to happen.

[Dropoffcharge]

If the current rumours are correct and an announcement is eminent down the road at BOH (Airport purchase by Sir Peter Rigby) could the lack of investment and a runway/apron expansion at SOU be a massive blow and leave them struggling against a possibly transformed/better managed BOH operation?

[RW20]

The long awaited news promised earlier on in the year by the Southampton airport MD has not materialised,no surprise!
With Bournemouth looking more likely to develop under the possible new owners, Southampton looks like it's gone as far as it can with its infrastructure,the airport land would be so valuable for housing and business.Interesting times lay ahead!.

[Dropoffcharge]

Indeed and I guess time will tell, with the fact that the land SOU is sitting on being far more valuable than that of BOH it's worrying, along with the likes of Flybe, Eastern and KLM already operating from existing RG airports, who knows what could happen.

[adfly]

Southampton handled 191,947 passengers in September down about 300 on last year (<1%), the first fall in quite a few months, albeit a very small one.

Some basic route breakdowns below:

Alicante - 115 pax / 97%
Cork - 45 pax / 62%
Dusseldorf - 50 pax / 63%
Faro - 111 pax / 94%
Ibiza - 100 paz / 80%
Malaga - 114 pax / 96%
Munich - 31 pax / 62%
Paris CDG - 59 pax / 75%

Heading into the winter Powdair have been lost, although I wonder how many will be particularly surprised at that (all those fancy launch events happening while they haven't even sourced aircraft yet etc seemed odd to me!) but, hopefully the arrival of Easyjet will give the Geneva route a good boost.

As for next year, so far the only new routes are TUI's charters to Mahon and Loloflights to Skiathos both using Flybe.

[SOUSpotter96]

I believe EasyJet could potentially do summer routes succesfuly. Given that there are many routes that they could introduce at SOU. Prices are relatively reasonable too considering I’ve just booked the GVA flight for £54 return including choosing my seats both ways.

[RW20]

Souspotter96
As stated many times in the past,unless there was substantial airside investment ( apron,taxiway etc)at Southampton,then easy jet and any other potential operator with Airbus/Boeing equipment will not be able to launch expanded operations.Southampton is stuck with Flybe who fill the present needs for the airport.
I suspect that there will be little change and a leveling off of pax numbers.
Development down the road at Bournemouth would impact eventually on the long term future of Southampton airport.

[Plane.Silly]

It's a shame because SOU has the much better external infrastructure to make it a viable airport (railway/ access to M3/M27) Not to mention the wider catchment area of Bournemouth to Portsmouth.
Bournemouth just can't compete with that, and i highly doubt now that Rigby have taken over, they will invest the £mils (maybe even £bils) to bring it to the same infrastructure standard as SOU. (would they even be allowed in the first place?)

Yet as everyone has mentioned, the lack of investment here has allowed this prospect to arise, making a rod for it's own back with local competition

[inOban]

I believe EasyJet could potentially do summer routes succesfuly. Given that there are many routes that they could introduce at SOU. Prices are relatively reasonable too considering I’ve just booked the GVA flight for £54 return including choosing my seats both ways.
'Prices are reasonable' = tickets are being sold below cost. Looks as if the route isn't doing well.

[adfly]

Southampton handled 176,421 passengers in October, representing a 1% increase on last year (not sure how half term fell this year?).

Some basic route breakdowns below:

Alicante - 97 pax / 82%
Cork - 38 pax / 53% (Not 100% sure on the days of operation and if it was 5 or 6 weekly, estimate is based on the latter)
Dusseldorf - 49 pax / 63%
Faro - 103 pax / 87%
Malaga - 102 pax / 87%
Munich - 26 pax / 52%
Paris CDG - 57 pax / 74%

[The Nutts Mutts]

Two BA A320 diversions in this evening, one from Krakow and one from Geneva. Three aircraft diverted from SOU earlier in the afternoon due to high crosswinds.

[MARKEYD]

Interestingly my friend was one of the crew that diverted into Southampton last night as had run out of stands for inbound aircraft at T5 from 1630

Was told that the ground guy got on the aircraft at SOU and said when the request came to land it was agreed on the basis that the aircraft did not have baggage containers they could handle it
When they landed it did of course have containers so all the passengers got off but SOU didn't have the equipment to offload the bags

Aircraft has arrived back at LHR still with bags , wasn't aware SOU does not have container facilities ?

[SWBKCB]

Aircraft has arrived back at LHR still with bags, wasn't aware SOU does not have container facilities ?

Why would it have?

[Wycombe]

Why would it have?

Plenty of Airbus narrowbodies have frequented SOU over the years (most recently, on a regular basis, Volotea 319's), but as these aircraft can be bulk-loaded as well as containerised, one would assume the former was the case with those.

SOU almost certainly hosts no other aircraft types that would require the use of a transfer loader (to get the containers on and off the aircraft).

With Easyjet starting 319/320 Ops imminently, one suspects bulk load will be the order of the day again, including lots of skis!

[canberra97]

Well it's about time that SOU get some equipment at least one for these situations especially as they accept diversions from the likes of BA, it will be a bonus for the airport, another bit of ground handling equipment wouldn't hurt.

[SOUSpotter96]

That seems a bit embarrassing to not have the equipment. Speaking of 320’s, what’s the likely hood of getting a NEO at SOU from EZY?. Do the retro fit winglets affect the size to the extent of having to take up two stands?.

[SWBKCB]

Ahh, the Pprune spenders of other people's money are out again. Seriously, you buy an expensive piece of kit just in case you might get a couple of diversions a year? :ugh:

[southside bobby]

Agreed SWBKCB.

[irishlad06]

Why buy a hi/lo loader for 1 or 2 diversions a year at a cost of over £50k (new) plus the expense of having to maintain it and train staff on it.

BFS have hi loaders but the one they have isn’t capable of taking AKE’s off a A319 due to its size and how close it would get to the engine. They get BA diverts all of the time but it’s always on the understanding that the bags will stay on. In almost all cases the aircraft fuels and positions to BHD.

All BA aircraft are containerised that operate from LHR and have to be due to the way the airport baggage system is made up, this is why the BMI A319’s / A320’s we’re mostly sent to LGW as they were bulk loaded.

[The Nutts Mutts]

It's not just the cost of the hi/lo, they'd also need to buy dollies to transport the ULDs on. These take up a fair bit of space when stored too, which it's fair to say is at a premium at SOU!
The lack of this equipment doesn't stop the airport handling fuel & go diversions, bulk loaded aircraft, or containerised diversions on the understanding that the bags stay onboard, so personally I don't think it's a huge issue considering the cost/benefit ratio.

[gkmeech]

Plenty of Airbus narrowbodies have frequented SOU over the years (most recently, on a regular basis, Volotea 319's), but as these aircraft can be bulk-loaded as well as containerised, one would assume the former was the case with those.

SOU almost certainly hosts no other aircraft types that would require the use of a transfer loader (to get the containers on and off the aircraft).

With Easyjet starting 319/320 Ops imminently, one suspects bulk load will be the order of the day again, including lots of skis!

When BA diverts in normally it's fog delay or excessive holding at LHR, and they wait with passengers on board until they refuel and get a slot back into LHR. This time the passengers needed to be offloaded and transported, but the baggage couldn't be.

[rog747]

call it progress = erm not
BA decides to have its short haul Bus fleet using ULD containerised baggage but most other carriers use bulk loading

BA diverts and the airport cannot handle taking off the luggage = pax pissed off - happened to me in mykonos this summer on BA A320 poor greeks never seen containerised short haul luggage what a fiasco in the world of aviation and its 2017!

[stewyb]

Can we expect any further airline/route announcements going in to 2018 or has the airport flat lined?

[Groundloop]

Of course it's progress. It greatly simplifies the VAST majority of BA's SH baggage handling. The entire T5 baggage system at LHR was designed around containers. So occasionally things don't go quite to plan. That's life!

[MARKEYD]

Call it progress = erm YES. !!

Unfortunately the diversion to SOU became a night stop where usually its a fuel and go . BA spread there aircraft around the UK when it comes to mass diversions so most of the airports are able to handle them . On this occasion it wasn't and bags are being forwarded on from LHR

Regards any new routes next year , I doubt it from Easy Jet as this was there debut from SOU to GVA to see how it all performs , first flight tomorrow ....

SOU has done well to get a Greek route so see how that goes first

Noticed that Santa holidays have pulled next years Ivalo charter with Small Planet and put it into BOH instead ( to close distance perhaps to position an A321 aircraft ? )

[RW20]

MARKEYD
Southampton will continue to splutter along as long as there is no further airside developments, the airport has probably reached its full potential as it stands,2018/19 will decide which way it goes.

[Buster the Bear]

Ivalo. Late arrival back to the UK after the hoards are processed. Quite often the 'Santa' flights get back after ATA.

[Wycombe]

In SOU this morning (for flight to GCI) and plenty of terminal hullabaloo/balloon arches/water arches (and an appearance by "Eddie The Eagle" Edwards) for the first EZS to GVA. Flight looked to be fairly busy.

[MARKEYD]

Inbound Easy flight very light load as expected at this time of year , outbound full up , remains to be seen for the rest of the season

[stewyb]

Bodes well that the outbound was full on first day of operation and reckon this route will be very popular. Take off rotation with just over half of runway used, very impressive. Is the field performance of the 320 better than 319?

[RW20]

Stewyb
The 320 can perform perfectly at Southampton fully loaded to releivity short destinations like Geneva.
The problem is the Sun destinations, especially if conditions are very warm or hot!
Southampton runway length is along with the stands it's major drawback for further progression.

[Rivet Joint]

Great news the EZY route has started. Without putting a downer on things I think the times this morning speak volumes. Arrival due at 8:15 (actually arrived at 8:07 so early), departure scheduled at 9:00 (actual departure 9:39). So even though the flight arrived early, it departed 40 minutes late. So it was on the ground for 1 hour 32 minutes. If this doesn't sum up what's wrong with SOU and why it will never be a base for anyone other than flymaybe then I don't know what is. I'm sure there are some who will say it's early days but vueling and volotea had the same service. You would think the MD would have made a big point of getting the first flight away as perfectly as possible. Sorry guys but nothing is going to change until there is new management.

[MARKEYD]

The first flight was actually scheduled in longer than normal to make allowances for all the “ razzmatazz “ that goes along with the inaugural first flights
It probably didn’t say on the departure boards , Flight 24 etc though , as already computerised in so I really wouldn’t read to much into that !!

However the hard work begins now , compared with BOH the flight prices are really low on same day departures on many days throughout the season, so wait and see !!!

[Wycombe]

So it was on the ground for 1 hour 32 minutes. If this doesn't sum up what's wrong with SOU and why it will never be a base for anyone other than flymaybe then I don't know what is.

Having been present to witness this morning's going's on, I strongly suspect that the long turn-around was at least partly due to all the publicity/media attention in relation to the launch. Pax being plied with welcome drinkies etc. probably also slowed down the process somewhat!

Another Airbus present this evening upon my return in the form of Small Planet 321, recently arrived from Ivalo.

[RW20]

River Joint
I could not agree more,the long in the tooth management needs to change,until there is positive airside development proposed,airlines like Volotea,Vueling and easyJet will come and go.
Unfortunately it's the same old story at Southampton,while other airports like Cardiff,Southend for example invest and progress.Indeed I think Bournemouth might see progression under new management soon.

[Wycombe]

.....don't get me wrong, I completely agree aswell. Airside investment at SOU is sorely needed. Just pointing out that today's circumstances were somewhat non-standard.

[stewyb]

Rodez with Eastern/Flybe back in for Summer 2018

[The Nutts Mutts]

That's great, the three people who went on it last year must have really enjoyed it! :)

It's nice to see this route returning, I thought it would have been a one season wonder. I reckon the addition of a Flybe codeshare will bring much greater visibility to it for 2018, as opposed to this year when Eastern marketed it themselves. The loads built up as the season went on, but it certainly had a slow start.

I see it's going to be 3 flights per week for the peak season, is that an increase on this year?

[stewyb]

Rodez was twice weekly this year so an increase yes.

Do we know why Flybe are stopping Lyon from 18th Feb as thought this was a year round service?!

[RW20]

Wow! The airport is on the rise?
The reality is rather like the football team the management team have let the airport down,no investment airside equals no progression. Simply the airport is on the edge of decline, Without investment,don't expect much!

[stewyb]

Agreed on airside investment but on what basis is the airport on the edge of decline, absolute nonsense!

[RW20]

stewyb
Flybe : not in the best of positions, investment non existent,airlines like Vueling, Volotea come and gone!
Airlines using larger planes,it wouldn't fare well if Flybe cut service's,easy arn't waiting in the wings as the Runway restrictions for there upgrading fleet are to restrictive.Not so absolute nonsense I suspect!

[Rivet Joint]

Unfortunately I also have to side with the naysayers. SOU is still completely at the mercy of flymaybe and they have recently handed back 6 Q400s with more to follow. Also no new frames due next year. Eastern make most their money from the oil contracts and these are starting to become marginal so their position is precarious. There are strong rumours Aurigny are about to abandon the Alderney route with a few start ups giving them an excuse to shirk their responsibilities. Low cost carriers in Air Berlin, Vueling, Volotea have been and gone after only 1 year of service and I fully expect Easy will follow. SOU seems to be one of the few routes the usually reliable KLM frequently cancel (cancelled in advance tomorrow morning for seemingly no reason?). Blue islands haven't pulled up any trees on the Channel Islands routes (I think there might be less frequency?). More business jets seem to utilise BOH than SOU which is just bizarre to me (turned away by SOU because of space or cost?) the only silver lining is BMI who amazingly are still maintaining a 2 rotation day and not giving up after 1 year like the others.

As discussed over and over the only golden ticket for SOU is Easy who would almost certainly be able to justify a base twice the size of Southend? The problem is that the airport needs to provide the infrastructure as we all have discussed. The fact that their visibility judgement was made by a man standing on a ladder until recently speaks volumes. This utter negligence must fall squarely at the abject management surely? Red funnel who are another local business that are owned by overseas pensions have just invested 10m within a few months of being bought. BOH invested 50m completely on a speculative basis. How is SOU different? Arguably they have more cause for investment than those two examples.

[GayFriendly]

StewyB,

LYS has been cut by BE as part of an entire network route review conducted in the autumn. Biarritz has also been chopped from SOU for S18. On the plus side, SOU based crew are being trained on the Embraer again, avoiding the need (and great expense) of nightstopping MAN crew to operate jet sectors ex-SOU. So you may see more in the way of jet ops from SOU, however no new routes are currently planned (apart from the already announced charters).

[stewyb]

As I have intimated previously and fully agree with you all, it beggars belief why SOU are not putting money in to airside improvements, of which are long overdue and would almost certainly reap rewards very quickly. Easy have dangled a big orange carrot in front of the airport management/AGS and if they still refuse to invest then this could be seen as negligence. With regards to airlines that come and go, SOU is not the only airport to have been affected by this and airlines/routes have been and will always be tested for load factors and yield levels. For all Flybe's faults, they have been a good fit for the SOU model up to now and could still be if they can sort out their many issues. The one underlying priority that SOU requires is competition, both from a choice of destination and price perspective, and this is where a LCC like Easy could thrive, again dependant on much of the above. The airport has never been in a healthier position from a passenger footfall and transport link stand point and it would really be a shame if this was not taken full advantage of now!

[RW20]

Stewyb
I'm afraid you are still not grasping the reality,and that is without stand improvements/extra stands,taxiway introduction,and possibly RW20 starter strip,Easy are not going to entertain a Southampton operation.
The future for Southampton looks clouded at best,unless there is a major change in thinking by the owners and management.
What happened to the important autumn announcement proposed by the MD?
The airport could be flourishing way above its present state,given improvements, especially with London
Airport full capacity,but I fear there's more negatively coming ,with airlines leaving rather then starting at SOU.

[stewyb]

Quite the opposite, I have clearly stated that the opportunity to attract a larger Easy presence is a real possibility but this is wholly dependent on airside investment

[Callum Paterson]

AGS don't seem to have a great relationship with easyJet at any of their airports.

[Rivet Joint]

He made it clear it was based on investment? I don't think anyone is in dispute about that. Good point about the autumn statement. Funny how SOU's resident Napoleon has gone quiet. From past incidents he likes to claim credit for other people's work, so perhaps he was going to claim credit for redevelopment happening at the old Ford site but had a rare moment sense. I did a list a long time ago of the numerous things local to SOU that present opportunities to tap in to. Even I was staggered by the list and I was the one that created it! I mean look no further than Southampton being the cruise capital of Norther Europe! The average ship nowadays holds 2,000-3,000 people and there are often a couple in at once (5 or 6 sometimes!).

[The Nutts Mutts]

This thread really is descending into farce...

[Rivet Joint]

Hit the nail on the head. Flymaybe are more of a unfortunate convenience for me though. I have lost count of the amount of flights they have cancelled and the complete disdain shown in response. You expect it from Ryanair but then you are paying peanuts unlike Flymaybe's fares. They have systematically put nearly every other regional out of business and judging by their behaviour north of the boarder lately, they are trying to add another long respected operator to the scrap heap. Plenty of examples of routes operated from SOU that they swamped to push other operators off only to abandon them after a short period of having a monopoly. Brussels or Frankfurt anyone? Surprised Eastern linked up with them after the amount of times they have tried to push them of the Leeds, Newcastle and Aberdeen routes. What about the fact they have started to only release their summer routes in dribs and drabs so people are forced to make alternative arrangements? Unfortunately SOU has small minded management who are in turn in the palms of a poorly run and overly territorial airline. Net result, same old same old.

[Nakata77]

Does the easyJet flight take up two stands?

easyJet operates Geneva from a number of UK airports and nothing else. Even Birmingham only gets a couple of other destinations out of them - Belfast and Grenoble.

It was easyJet Switzerland and not easyJet that decided to fly into SOU. Their commercial teams are run almost at arms-length.

If I was SOU management I would also be a little hesitant to allow easyJet to compete with Flybe on too many of their services for fear of losing Flybe. easyJet isn't a perfect fit for SOU given operational limitations mentioned ad-nauseam.

[MARKEYD]

EasyJet are continuing into mid April with the Geneva service allowing for the Easter holidays

The flights change to Tue , Thu and Sat with the Sat flight now operated by A319 aircraft

[stewyb]

Good to see an extra month added!

Some interesting quotes also from Easyjet in this article - https://www.inthesnow.com/easyjet-launch-southampton-to-geneva/