Southampton-2

[rog747]

TUI and Thomson before that hasn't used the BY flight code for several years they use TOM.

TUI don't add their flight code to outsourced flying as both Flybe and Volotea use their own codes regardless of the fact that they are operating on behalf of TUI.

It's Lolo Flights not Volo! please see below

LoLo flights are using a EMB195 from Flybe for SOU to Skiathos from July to September 2018, it's a charter flight not a 'scheduled' flight, Kalamata was to be added from late September up until the end of the summer season but the flights never went on sale.

There hasn't been anything confirmed relating to the cancellation of the LoLo flight program for summer 2019, I should imagine that their planned frequencies have yet to have aircraft allocated but I have to admit it does sound a bit over ambitious, we're just have to wait and see!

believe it or not BY was used on the bag tags and boarding cards back from my recent flight
have also seen BY used on FR24 as well on numerous occasions recently
dont ask me how but BY is around lol - maybe used on Posn'g flights?

thomas cook uses both TCX and MT (My Travel days) and also DE for Condor

[rog747]

I think Volo is being used as a shortened form of Volotea, not a reference to Lolo

yup!
indeed
i was chattin about thomson's SOU charters to PMI MAH and IBZ who are still flown by Volotea (Volo)

Lolo (cheap flights) was mentioned in another convo about their rather ambitious charter plans for 2019 - I wish them well

[Cloud1]

believe it or not BY was used on the bag tags and boarding cards back from my recent flight
have also seen BY used on FR24 as well on numerous occasions recently
dont ask me how but BY is around lol - maybe used on Posn'g flights?

thomas cook uses both TCX and MT (My Travel days) and also DE for Condor

They are just IATA codes - name change of airline doesn’t necessarily change this. The 3 letter code commonly used is TOM but if the airport for whatever reason can’t manage that in their systems they use the 2 letter BY IATA equivalent. Some airlines prefer the 2 letter code but where this applies it is more common across all airports (you see BE or LS more than their 3 letter equiv whereas with EasyJet you see EZY more than U2)

TCX/MT & BAW/BA & EZY/U2 & BEE/BE &
EXS/LS & VIR/VS

[Chris_747]

There hasn't been anything confirmed relating to the cancellation of the LoLo flight program for summer 2019, I should imagine that their planned frequencies have yet to have aircraft allocated but I have to admit it does sound a bit over ambitious, we're just have to wait and see!

Their summer 2019 program has only just gone onto their website so don't believe anyone is saying it's been cancelled, just waiting for more details as obviously it's very ambitious and no word of a carrier etc yet.

[MARKEYD]

Just having a look at the Geneva figures for February and 4512 passengers used the route

Don't have access to the Flybe figures again , but for example take the following

Flybe operated 12 flights at say a load of 65 passengers , leaving Easy jet with 123 passengers

Flybe operated at 75 passengers per flight , leaving Easy jet with 113 passengers a flight all using a A320 180 / 186 seater


See Lo Lo flights are going head to head with Bournemouth and TUI / Ryanair on 3 routes next summer 19 to Kefalonia , Corfu and Murcia

[RW20]

MARKEYED
Nobody can seriously consider Lolo completing against TUI/Ryanair,its not going to happen!
If the stated figures for Easy from Southampton are accurate,then it's not brilliant news for SOU!
Southampton needs some good news,it's time for the management to step up!.

[stewyb]

MARKEYED
Nobody can seriously consider Lolo completing against TUI/Ryanair,its not going to happen!
If the stated figures for Easy from Southampton are accurate,then it's not brilliant news for SOU!
Southampton needs some good news,it's time for the management to step up!.

I don't think the EZY numbers are too bad if the average load is around 123 for a first season. Remember this route only went on sale in July when a lot of passengers would have already booked their flights for this ski winter. A Saturday flight however is a must for next winter due to it being changeover day in the Alps!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Looking at TUI flights on sale from SOU for summer 19, the programme seems to be as follows:


Tuesday 1x Palma, operated by Volotea
Thursday 1x Ibiza, operated by Volotea
Saturday 1x Mahon, operated by Volotea


Nice to see Mahon returning with increased capacity.


Interestingly, while on their site I noticed that Greece was showing as a destination from SOU for this summer. On selecting it, it seems that they were selling TUI holidays to Skiathos using the Lolo flight on a Tuesday afternoon. In what's hopefully a good sign, all dates are showing as sold out. I wonder how many seats on each aircraft TUI have bought?

[RW20]

The Nutts Mutts
It's encourageing to see Manon increased capacity 2019,however on the other side of the coin there is no further increases on Palma flights, somewhat surprising considering past capacity on this route.
SOU needs more Sun routes,but where are they going to come from,or rather which airline?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Yes Palma has seen a fairly large decrease year on year since the high point in 2016. On the TUI website there were no options for Flybe flights to Palma in 2019 that I could see, so I wonder if this summer will mark the end of the road for Flybe E195 sun routes.
There's always the hope that EZY might do something in summer 2019, but I really don't want to kick off that particular discussion again as it's been done to death on here!
Maybe Lolo will go for the mass market and swap Pristina for Palma... :}

[RW20]

Surely Lolo would have seen the possible slack in Palma capacity,and dropped some of there more fancible proposed routes for 2019,in favour for certain high pax on the Majorca route.

[stewyb]

Looking at TUI flights on sale from SOU for summer 19, the programme seems to be as follows:


Tuesday 1x Palma, operated by Volotea
Thursday 1x Ibiza, operated by Volotea
Saturday 1x Mahon, operated by Volotea


Nice to see Mahon returning with increased capacity.


Interestingly, while on their site I noticed that Greece was showing as a destination from SOU for this summer. On selecting it, it seems that they were selling TUI holidays to Skiathos using the Lolo flight on a Tuesday afternoon. In what's hopefully a good sign, all dates are showing as sold out. I wonder how many seats on each aircraft TUI have bought?

Nutts Mutts

Maybe i'm not looking correctly but note the following on the TUI website:

PMI is x 2 weekly for S19 (as per this year) with Volotea
I can't see Mahon as being operated by Volotea, in fact I cannot see any flight prices yet!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Nutts Mutts

Maybe i'm not looking correctly but note the following on the TUI website:

PMI is x 2 weekly for S19 (as per this year) with Volotea
I can't see Mahon as being operated by Volotea, in fact I cannot see any flight prices yet!

I knew I'd mess this up... I'll leave it to the professionals in future!

According to their website, when searching for holidays for summer 19, the schedule is actually as follows for May-Sept:
Ibiza 1 weekly on Thursday (Volotea)
Mahon 1 weekly on Saturday (Flybe)
Palma 2 weekly on Tuesday, Saturday (Volotea)

I saw the Saturday Volotea and got mixed up thinking it was the Mahon flight.

Thomas Cook also showing 2x weekly Palma on Flybe for S19, guessing that will be a Dash 8.

[MARKEYD]

Regarding TUI selling Skiathos it’s been on there website since LoLo flights first announced the flights but has always been Sold Out as they never actually took any seats off the company, just a gremlin in the system

Never mind , Lo Lo have 196 flights on offer next summer potentially on a FK 70 aircraft with i am guessing about 15 , 000 seats extra so should bump up numbers

[stewyb]

Regarding TUI selling Skiathos it’s been on there website since LoLo flights first announced the flights but has always been Sold Out as they never actually took any seats off the company, just a gremlin in the system

Never mind , Lo Lo have 196 flights on offer next summer potentially on a FK 70 aircraft with i am guessing about 15 , 000 seats extra so should bump up numbers

Latest - A Letter of Intent has been signed with a EU airline (Fokker 70) to operate their program of flights in S19 and all will be revealed as to the carrier in the next few months once commercial agreements are finalised!

[adfly]

Latest - A Letter of Intent has been signed with a EU airline (Fokker 70) to operate their program of flights in S19 and all will be revealed as to the carrier in the next few months once commercial agreements are finalised!

Sounds promising so far.

I would think the airport are treading carefully and making sure they don't 'do a Powdair' and go along with all the marketing promotions, not forgetting the fancy launch event at that new Hotel in Ocean Village, all the while the company hadn't even sorted out an aircraft to operate for them!

Hopefully once it is all finalised and signed for (some searching about suggests to me it will most likely be Tus Airways) we will start to see Lolo promoted more widely.

[Rivet Joint]

Sounds promising so far.

I would think the airport are treading carefully and making sure they don't 'do a Powdair' and go along with all the marketing promotions, not forgetting the fancy launch event at that new Hotel in Ocean Village, all the while the company hadn't even sorted out an aircraft to operate for them!

Hopefully once it is all finalised and signed for (some searching about suggests to me it will most likely be Tus Airways) we will start to see Lolo promoted more widely.

Come on guys, with the best will in the world we all know this operation is never going to materialise. Don't this lot have history with failing to follow through on their promises? Sounds very similar to the Powdair debacle. Personally, I believe the CAA should not allow these shady operators to sell tickets until everything is in place. Having a contract in place for an aircraft to operate the routes would be a good start!

[shamrock7seal]

Couldn’t agree with you more Rivet Joint

Looking at Bristol and it’s catchment area I cannot understand why SOU continues to underperform - it had forecast up to 6m pax by 2030. It should be at least 4m by now.

British Airways CityFlyer would be a perfect match - is the airport even talking to them?

Given Flybe’s financial Performace I’d be worried if I was SOU.

I also don’t understand why KLM doesn’t offer more frequency. How can it be offering four daily flights from the likes to Durham and Norwich but not SOU?

[Wycombe]

I also don’t understand why KLM doesn’t offer more frequency. How can it be offering four daily flights from the likes to Durham and Norwich but not SOU?

....because Flybe do! Unlike CWL, NWI, MME, HUY where KLM have it to themselves.

[rog747]

thing is Lolo is not an airline - they are a tour operator

so they can advertise to sell seats now if they wish - up to them who they then contract/sub the flight series to - could be all given to Flybe or Eastern if they so wish to pay them to do it - or even BA!

at the end of the day I wish them well for their very ambitious plans for summer 2019 - a series of flights and destinations that Bath Travel Palmair could only envy

will it happen? Hmmm well this is place to be and see !

volotea tried with SOU and SEN but it lasted only a year for a scheduled services - only package holiday charter flights seem to work sold via a major Tour Op.

[canberra97]

thing is Lolo is not an airline - they are a tour operator

so they can advertise to sell seats now if they wish - up to them who they then contract/sub the flight series to - could be all given to Flybe or Eastern if they so wish to pay them to do it - or even BA!

at the end of the day I wish them well for their very ambitious plans for summer 2019 - a series of flights and destinations that Bath Travel Palmair could only envy

will it happen? Hmmm well this is place to be and see !

volotea tried with SOU and SEN but it lasted only a year for a scheduled services - only package holiday charter flights seem to work sold via a major Tour Op.

Regarding your first sentence.

LoLo are a flight operator selling seats only they are not a tour operator they do not sell direct package Holidays like a tour operator such as TCX or TUI.

[rog747]

Lolo have an ATOL so they could sell if they wished both accom and flight packages

they are defined as a travel agency as such

[RW20]

rog747 and Canberra 73

Interesting points,but as stated before ,in reality how are Lolo operating a chartered F70 going to complete with Ryanair and Tui down the road at BOU,or to the point LGW on some of there proposed routes?.
Southampton has significant restrictions with runway length and airside a/c parking to attract major players for the Sun routes,and unless this changes radically then operators/start up operators like Lolo will come and quickly go.
Southampton has the transport links,but lacks the airside requirements to expand into a progressive regional airport that it should be ,with Flybe floundering ,will the airport break out from its underproforming position?,it's a big doubt!

[canberra97]

I don't think that a single F70 based at SOU would have any affect on the airports operations although I find the list of destinations that they intend to serve a bit over ambitious, let's see how their Skiathos flight performs later in the summer.

[canberra97]

Lolo have an ATOL so they could sell if they wished both accom and flight packages

they are defined as a travel agency as such

Could and Wished good choice of words to use!

LoLo Flights may well have an ATOL but looking at their website they don't currently offer accommodation let alone flights and accommodation they just sell seat only, hence my reply regarding them as a seat only operator rather than a tour operator, until such time that they offer packages with accommodation and flights they remain to be a seat only operator.

They maybe defined as a travel agency having an ATOL but only in the sense that they are selling their own flights directly online albeit with chartered aircraft.

[Nakata77]

Sorry but any operator that says it will fly a Fokker 70 to Greece is not someone I would want to spend my money with. It doesn't have the range unless you plan to ship the passengers baggage separately later on.

The concept of operating only at peak (Jul-early Sep) with low prices is flawed and may only be a one-off or limited time concept to soak up excess capacity that may exist.

This is another Powdair and the airport better steer well clear.

[rog747]

rog747 and Canberra 73

Interesting points,but as stated before ,in reality how are Lolo operating a chartered F70 going to complete with Ryanair and Tui down the road at BOU,or to the point LGW on some of there proposed routes?.
Southampton has significant restrictions with runway length and airside a/c parking to attract major players for the Sun routes,and unless this changes radically then operators/start up operators like Lolo will come and quickly go.
Southampton has the transport links,but lacks the airside requirements to expand into a progressive regional airport that it should be ,with Flybe floundering ,will the airport break out from its underproforming position?,it's a big doubt!

Lolo will likely be seeking their uplift needs from a seat broker (remember goldcrest and viking?) to get their charter series requirements met.
the broker in turn seeks airlines and equipment availability either wholeplane or sharing on an IT series with another tour op.
the likes of enter air titan small planet ASL and germanair all get work out of UK in this way

most smaller seat only and/or tour operators/travel agencies get their IT seats in this way (or share with another tour op buying seats in from them)
Kosmar was a big player here

I agree the performance penalties out of SOU for various destinations and a/c types may be challenging for route planning

Used to be be my field - am retired now
was good times once lol

[rog747]

Sorry but any operator that says it will fly a Fokker 70 to Greece is not someone I would want to spend my money with. It doesn't have the range unless you plan to ship the passengers baggage separately later on.

The concept of operating only at peak (Jul-early Sep) with low prices is flawed and may only be a one-off or limited time concept to soak up excess capacity that may exist.

This is another Powdair and the airport better steer well clear.

when i was looking after AE at LGW we had Fokker 100's (new) and occasionally these would have to step in for an AOG 757 say to Corfu or ATH
we had to send one a/c with the pax and one for the bags
another 737-300 would also take a full load and bags plus any remainder we could not get on the Fokkers

SOU-JSI is a route that def can attract the demand if they advertise it enough and operate it without too much payload penalty - and/or sell a block of the seats to the JSI holiday specialists such as Sunvil, James villas, IONIAN ISLAND HOLIDAYS and Olympic Hols to share the risk - most of these are upmarket and a regional departure like SOU would be attractive to the JSI market (skiathos skopelos alonissos and the Pelion region)

apart from the view of the question of being viable operationally departing from SOU - most flights returning to the UK from JSI cannot depart with MTOW out of there going home to UK and stop for fuel at Volos, Lemnos (sometimes split load) or Saloniki, sometimes Kavala or Corfu - this makes it a 3 sector day for crewing

[stewyb]

Further to my post #388 I see that there is now a NOTAM delaying implementation of the 02 RNAV approaches until 2nd April.

Anyone know what's going on? For the IAP to appear in the AIP the procedures must have been approved by CAA, or were they approved subject to conditions that have as yet not been fulfilled by the airport operator?

Is this now active?

[RW20]

stewyb
RNAV approaches are in use at SOU for 02.As stated by TCAS FAN LPV approaches to 02 give a lower minima and are more accurate then anything available in the past.

[TCAS FAN]

Stwyb

In the absence of a further NOTAM to delay its use, and looking at the approaches flown on 02 this morning (on he runway centreline, well east of the VOR/DME final approach track), I would say that the RNAV IAP is now being used.

An acquaintance of mine (who doesn't like aircraft) recently purchased a waterside property on the Itchen, notwithstanding my advice that he'd shortly be under the approach path. Could shortly be an addition to the local anti-airport NIMBYs?

How long do we have to wait for a 20 RNAV IAP?

[stewyb]

EZY release their winter schedule on Thursday. Do we think Geneva will return and will there be an added route maybe, Lyon or Grenoble?

[The Nutts Mutts]

I'm hopeful that Geneva will return at similar or slightly increased frequency, but I don't think we'll be seeing any additional routes next winter.

[Groundloop]

EZY release their winter schedule on Thursday. Do we think Geneva will return and will there be an added route maybe, Lyon or Grenoble?

Why don't you just wait until Thursday!

[stewyb]

Why don't you just wait until Thursday!

Got out the wrong side of bed this morning?!

[Groundloop]

Nope. Just seems pointless speculating when you just had to wait two days for the facts.

[Rivet Joint]

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Southampton's new airport drone! | Daily Echo (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/16149303.VIDEO__Is_it_a_bird__Is_it_a_plane__No__it_s_Southa mpton_s_new_airport_drone_/)

Does anyone else think it’s strange that they keep making noise about small investments like this, but there has been no mention of the much more significant investment in RNAV?

[RW20]

River Joint.
The airport drone resembling a Peregrine is more news worthy then the technical details of a LPV RNAV approach to 02.Lets hope that there is a significant airside announcement in the future,now that would be newsworthy!

[shamrock7seal]

Heard a rumour that the lolo flights will be operated by a titan 321 next year - i'm assuming it would have severe payload penalties?

[SOUSpotter96]

Have an email through from EZY this morning. “Now Booking: flights for winter 2018/19 from Southampton”. I also noticed when on EZY’s website a link that showed the deals, or prices. This had “Southampton to Geneva (Dec ‘18). From £26.95”.

[SWBKCB]

Looks to be Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, December to February

[The Nutts Mutts]

Tue, Thurs, Sun from what I can see.

[MARKEYD]

Easy jet are returning for another season

Flights leave the same days as this year and similar times of departure , no Saturday flight offered though and the Tuesday flight is now an A319

[stewyb]

Rumour talks have taken place with EZY to operate S19, let's wait and see!

[RW20]

With the airside limitations at SOU I can't see Easy doing much on the Sun routes,it's a shame as given the catchment area,and with London airports at maximum ,there is a massive potential,but we have been saying this about SOU for some years.

[RW20]

Surely to make Easy operation worthwhile from SOU they need to operate with A320 to the Sun routes,given the competition down the road at BOU. This would I'm sure have some payload restrictions in the Summer temps, something Easy will not contemplate!.

[shamrock7seal]

What is ur source for this stewyb? Surely this is confidential information.

They tried other routes from BOH to Grenoble and Kraków back in 2007/8 but they didn’t work out. Interesting considering Ryanair is making Kraków work from BOH ten years later.

EasyJet would surely be talking to both BOH and SOU about S19. When does easyJet go on sale with S19?

[MARKEYD]

Easy jet summer 2019 normally goes on sale around 1 Oct 18

I think Easy talk to many airports throughout the year and visa versa . If they did decide a base it would be a minimum of 3 aircraft like the Southend start up and take it from there .
It really is along way ahead and I am sure very confidential about talks etc

[inOban]

I would have thought that it would more likely to be routes operated, like GVA, from continental bases. The days of Easyjet or Ryanair creating new, small, bases are over.

[Severn]

Assuming EZY isn't about to open a SOU base in 2019, it will rely on other bases in the network for any new routes out of SOU.
EZY currently has 11 UK bases (LGW, LTN, STN, SEN, BRS, MAN, LPL, NCL, EDI, GLA & BFS) as well as 7 other UK airports they serve: SOU, BOH, BHX, INV, ABZ, IOM & JER
The routes from these UK non-easyjet bases are as follows:
SOU: GVA
BOH: GVA
BHX: BFS, GVA, GNB

INV: LGW, LTN, BRS
ABZ: LGW, LTN,

IOM: LGW, LTN, BRS, LPL, BFS

JER: LGW, LTN, SEN, LPL, NCL, EDI, GLA, BFS

As you can see, apart from the airports in England (BHX, BOH & SOU) which have destinations to the continent (GVA & GNB), the other 4 airports only have destinations within the rest of the UK.
This would suggest that the next EZY-related news to be announced at SOU (if there is going to be any) would be:

GVA to go year-round,
a new route to GNB announced,
or EZY going up against BE/T3 on routes to one of its UK bases.

Anything outside of the above list would mean bucking the usually easy to follow EZY-trend (unless they are to open a base, which is even less likely).

[FrequentlyFlying]

Just the regular reminder that SOU and BOH both operated by Easy Swiss not Easy - Geneva snow flights mean little more than resort fillers for the season. Would love to see some new City routes at SOU by 100 plus jet but best hope is someone who takes on a C Series has a go - going up against Ryanair at BOH on sun routes is probably not a great way forward.

[RW20]

Good post,can't see Easy expanding beyond present operations at SOU,given the airdrome limitations.
Indeed 2019 could see stagnation in pax,with the decline in sun routes on offer.

[compton3bravo]

I think you will find the Birmingham-Grenoble route has been dropped due to poor loads and competition from Jet2.

[Severn]

I think you will find the Birmingham-Grenoble route has been dropped due to poor loads and competition from Jet2.
At the time of posting, BHX-GNB is still operating and it's last flight of the season will be next Saturday. The fact that it hasn't been loaded for next season escaped me, so I do apologise. Even with BHX-GNB removed from my previous post I think you can still draw the same conclusions.

Just the regular reminder that SOU and BOH both operated by Easy Swiss not Easy
My post is based on the flights being sold by easyJet regardless if the aircraft operating the route is Easy or Easy Swiss. The flights from BRS-GVA for example run with a mix of Easy and Easy Swiss, but the punter booking the flights does not know any different from the time of booking right through to travel. Maybe I should have put "EasyJet Group" to make things a little clearer?

[Rivet Joint]

What is ur source for this stewyb? Surely this is confidential information.

They tried other routes from BOH to Grenoble and Kraków back in 2007/8 but they didn’t work out. Interesting considering Ryanair is making Kraków work from BOH ten years later.

EasyJet would surely be talking to both BOH and SOU about S19. When does easyJet go on sale with S19?

Shamrock, just my observation, but I do not think BOH fits EZY’s profile as well as SOU does. As others have said, the Geneva route is operated by their Swiss unit who seem to operate slightly differently and will operate into various airports on the odd route. The UK unit only seems to operate from airports that can sustain a sizeable base. BOH has never been able to sustain a base, especially on business routes. People forget EZY is as much about business traffic as it is leisure. As mentioned before, EZY probably see SOU as an oportunity to grow their market share outside the slot restricted London airports. It’s pretty much as near to London as Southend is. BOH looks like it will always be an airport for the tour operators, nothing more.

[Rivet Joint]

I would have thought that it would more likely to be routes operated, like GVA, from continental bases. The days of Easyjet or Ryanair creating new, small, bases are over.

Not true. How do you explain Southend? They cannot grow at the rate they want at the traditional London airports. I would argue SOU has 10 x what Southend has to offer for EZY. Do we know if Southend had to carry out a lot of investment as part of the deal of EZY opening a base? Was the train station being built part of it? As we have all said for years, SOU needs to put its hand in its pocket.

[ezyBoh]

Flights to/from BOH & SOU are operated by both easyJet Switzerland & easyJet. Usually by NCL & LTN based aircraft. For example LTN-GVA-BOH-GVA-LTN.

[southside bobby]

Try not to use SEN as a EZY yardstick & example for small base investment at SOU.

"Special factors" are/were in play with the SEN setup of course.

EZY had/have plenty of scope for continued good growth rate at the North London airports without the diversion of SEN.

[Cozy F]

Interesting thoughts here folks. I’m certain that SOU would welcome some operator diversity, and would concur that SOU might be a slightly better EZY fit than BOH.

Also agree with Severn’s thoughts regarding initial EZY options, which are essentially links to existing U.K. domestic bases beyond a small smattering of ski services.

Looking at the 11 EZY U.K. Base operations the 5 in the south of England are geographically illogical for ops from SOU whilst airport management might be a little reticent to encourage direct head-to-heads with their main customer BE on MAN, NCL, EDI or GLA - which leaves, IMO, LPL and BFS as the two proving grounds for further market potential for EZY from SOU.

[The Nutts Mutts]

If it were to be the sun routes from SOU that Easy were to be interested in, exploiting the gap left by the departure of the Flybe E195s, then would W-patterns from other bases be a possibility? Eg LGW-ALC-SOU-ALC-LGW?

[canberra97]

If it were to be the sun routes from SOU that Easy were to be interested in, exploiting the gap left by the departure of the Flybe E195s, then would W-patterns from other bases be a possibility? Eg LGW-ALC-SOU-ALC-LGW?

Absolutely

EasyJet wouldn't be interested in domestics from SOU, maybe in the long term if they did operate a small base from the airport but W patterns is the most logical step forward as you suggest.

[canberra97]

Interesting thoughts here folks. I’m certain that SOU would welcome some operator diversity, and would concur that SOU might be a slightly better EZY fit than BOH.

Also agree with Severn’s thoughts regarding initial EZY options, which are essentially links to existing U.K. domestic bases beyond a small smattering of ski services.

Looking at the 11 EZY U.K. Base operations the 5 in the south of England are geographically illogical for ops from SOU whilst airport management might be a little reticent to encourage direct head-to-heads with their main customer BE on MAN, NCL, EDI or GLA - which leaves, IMO, LPL and BFS as the two proving grounds for further market potential for EZY from SOU.

EasyJet wouldn't be up for domestics from Southampton maybe an EDI rotation but that's about it.

EasyJet don't fly domestics from NCL so you can discount that.

EasyJet would or 'could even' target the Sun routes and city break destinations.

[SWBKCB]

EasyJet don't fly domestics from NCL so you can discount that.

They do BRS and BFS from NCL (and JER if that counts in this debate). Short domestic routes help maximize utilisation.

[Cozy F]

Exactly!

I don’t know how many Annual passengers easyJet handle from Newcastle, but I’d hazard a guess that the BFS and BRS routes represent a fairly sizeable proportion of them - due to their frequency. Short sectors are key to offering a balanced, optimised programme.

[canberra97]

Apologies all round then as I had totally overlooked those domestic destinations from Newcastle.

[shamrock7seal]

Rivet Joint,

Can hardly call Ryanair a tour operator.

[22/04]

Just remember Easy have ops that aren't w patterns or direct from base

A couple of years ago one shift was: LTN-JER-GLA-LTN-ABZ-LTN.

So a domestic to SOU could be served by aircraft from other bases to that destination doing that sort of merry-go-round.

[rog747]

Just remember Easy have ops that aren't w patterns or direct from base

A couple of years ago one shift was: LTN-JER-GLA-LTN-ABZ-LTN.

So a domestic to SOU could be served by aircraft from other bases to that destination doing that sort of merry-go-round.

what did the LTN-GLA-JER-LTN bit? a/c no.2? (the other W)

[Buster the Bear]

Former Tui executive Paul Cooper has joined low cost Atol flight operator start-up Flylolo.

He has been recruited help drive the company’s business development working with CEO Paul Dendle, ex-boss of flight-only company Avro.

Cooper worked at Tui for 16 years as head of commercial – airports before setting up consultancy Can Do Aviation in 2016.

He said: “Flylolo is operating flights to the Canary Islands from Gatwick, Manchester and Glasgow covering peak holiday dates this winter.

“However, it is the development of the summer programme from Southampton airport which I am also excited about.

“Southampton airport with its excellent rail and road links offers a real alternative to Gatwick, which is operating close to full capacity.

“For summer 2019 Flylolo is operating 14 routes from Southampton to a range of Mediterranean destinations, which represents significant growth over the single Skiathos flight operating this summer.”

Dendle said: “I’m delighted that we now have Paul Cooper working with us bringing his valuable experience and knowledge to the team as we grow and develop our business.

“We are keen to maximise sales distribution for Flylolo which Paul Cooper will also be working on.”

[stewyb]

Heard a rumour that the lolo flights will be operated by a titan 321 next year - i'm assuming it would have severe payload penalties?

No chance, agreements being finalised on a F70 from an EU airline (TUS Air?) 80 seat configuration with no payload restrictions. Seems about right for this fledgling flight program although remains to be seen if all 14 routes will take off, I do however wish them well as this will bring much needed footfall through the airport!

[RW20]

A A321 would be a non starter due to severe payload restrictions,however wouldn't a F100 provide added capacity ,allowing costs to be kept down?.Surely a F70 isn't going to give competitive pricing for the proposed routes ?.

[rog747]

max range of a HGW (enhanced MTOW) F70 with max payload (80 seats) is around 1600nm incl's reserves and alternative fuel

JSI is 1450nm

if SOU runway and performance charts do not restrict MTOW then seems doable

as for pricing only Lolo can decide that

[SWBKCB]

Might work, but makes you wonder why nobody else has used the Fk.70 for such an operation - unless anybody knows otherwise?

[stewyb]

Might work, but makes you wonder why nobody else has used the Fk.70 for such an operation - unless anybody knows otherwise?

Would imagine its the first time the F70 has been available for charter ops. Of the airframes that are left, most were tied up with KLM or far away airlines in Africa/South America. KLM have de-fleeted this type recently and sold 4 to TUS in Larnaca!

[Planespeaking]

Would imagine its the first time the F70 has been available for charter ops. Of the airframes that are left, most were tied up with KLM or far away airlines in Africa/South America. KLM have de-fleeted this type recently and sold 4 to TUS in Larnaca!

Too old, thirsty, poor economics, had their day, unattractive to tour operators.... where does it end?

[vectisman]

The positive and optimistic attitude of so many on this thread is overwhelming! :ugh:

[adfly]

Such attitudes do make posting of here less appealing it must be said vectisman. Criticism and cynicism are obviously to be expected, especially about any 'new' or unusual proposals, given how hard it is to be successful in this industry. But it is a shame to see people instantly write things off on here before the full facts and information about it have been made clear.

Planespeaking's comments are to a considerable extent true. However I would think some of the reasons against using a F70 for charter ops also have a benefit as well. They are rather old, although far older aircraft are being used by small and large operators at the moment (Jet2's 733's would be one example). But I would expect this leads to the lease/ownership costs of them to be low, and from what I understand the Fokkers have always fared quite well from a reliability and maintenance side, probably rather better than your average E-Jet if Flybe's are anything to go by (based on personal experiences). The fairly high fuel consumption is very much a negative point especially considering the length of some of the routes.

I would think they are/were unattractive to tour operators due to their size, and the fact that most tour operators aren't looking at a niche market in the same sense as Flylolo (<4hrs block time destinations from an airport with a 1700m runway in a reasonably affluent area with no *direct* competition).

stewyb's comments about the lack of availability and general lack of of F70's in existence (I think Fokker built 47 before they went bust) are also relevant to this. In that regard, I struggle to think of any other aircraft which could fit the role. An F100 or RJ-85 doesn't have the range required, an E170 or 190 could work(?), but I expect the lease/ownership costs of both are a lot higher, especially for the latter owing to their popularity and fact that they are newer designs still in wide use with many major carriers.

Then it's the question of if there are any carriers who have these aircraft available to lease in the peak summer season, to which the answer is presumably very few!

With regard to the operation I hope we see it go ahead, but I do agree some of the destinations seem a little questionable (Pristina seems like a niche market even from London, Murcia's new airport opening at the end of this year is apparently not very well located and serving Tivat as well a Dubrovnik from the get go seems somewhat ambitious to me. It is also good to see the operation has the back of a former TUI boss, hopefully a sign of some credibility.

[stewyb]

The positive and optimistic attitude of so many on this thread is overwhelming! :ugh:

Will be good to see the F70 back in SOU again, quite an iconic jet 🙂

[rog747]

Might work, but makes you wonder why nobody else has used the Fk.70 for such an operation - unless anybody knows otherwise?

not sure if Austrian (Arrows ex tyrolean) still use their F70's on charters or have they been retired now>?

apart from that similar sized a/c are rare on IT charters

BMI use 49 seat EMB jets on a few IT's to Italy and Sardinia Corsica

Volotea still use the 100/110 seat 717(MD95) on their routes and charters but larger A319's are taking over

BA (C-F) use 95 seat EMB RJ's on a big charter series out of many UK and Scottish airports to Italy and Spain for Barrhead Travel and also op the schedules from LCY to Greek Islands JMK and JTR

this operation for Lolo IF a F70 is being sourced is a rather standalone gig rather similar to the old Palmair ''one aircraft'' scenario
what's gonna be the backup when it all goes Pete Tong in the summer on a Saturday morning - who or what could cover the back up...?

notable that the bosses are ex Avro and a new guy from TUI - therefore they should know their markets and operations
Avro was massive as you know but had a reputation for cancellations and rescheduling passengers

[rog747]

The positive and optimistic attitude of so many on this thread is overwhelming! :ugh:

TBH a few folk on here with respect including myself have either worked in this volatile market since the 70's or have good product knowledge

sorry to appear sceptical or have pertinent questions but that's all good to throw in the mixing pot on a discussion forum and relevant especially if parting with one's dosh to buy a ticket

do you have any observations yourself?

[rog747]

Such attitudes do make posting of here less appealing it must be said vectisman. Criticism and cynicism are obviously to be expected, especially about any 'new' or unusual proposals, given how hard it is to be successful in this industry. But it is a shame to see people instantly write things off on here before the full facts and information about it have been made clear.

Planespeaking's comments are to a considerable extent true. However I would think some of the reasons against using a F70 for charter ops also have a benefit as well. They are rather old, although far older aircraft are being used by small and large operators at the moment (Jet2's 733's would be one example). But I would expect this leads to the lease/ownership costs of them to be low, and from what I understand the Fokkers have always fared quite well from a reliability and maintenance side, probably rather better than your average E-Jet if Flybe's are anything to go by (based on personal experiences). The fairly high fuel consumption is very much a negative point especially considering the length of some of the routes.

I would think they are/were unattractive to tour operators due to their size, and the fact that most tour operators aren't looking at a niche market in the same sense as Flylolo (<4hrs block time destinations from an airport with a 1700m runway in a reasonably affluent area with no *direct* competition).

stewyb's comments about the lack of availability and general lack of of F70's in existence (I think Fokker built 47 before they went bust) are also relevant to this. In that regard, I struggle to think of any other aircraft which could fit the role. An F100 or RJ-85 doesn't have the range required, an E170 or 190 could work(?), but I expect the lease/ownership costs of both are a lot higher, especially for the latter owing to their popularity and fact that they are newer designs still in wide use with many major carriers.

Then it's the question of if there are any carriers who have these aircraft available to lease in the peak summer season, to which the answer is presumably very few!

With regard to the operation I hope we see it go ahead, but I do agree some of the destinations seem a little questionable (Pristina seems like a niche market even from London, Murcia's new airport opening at the end of this year is apparently not very well located and serving Tivat as well a Dubrovnik from the get go seems somewhat ambitious to me. It is also good to see the operation has the back of a former TUI boss, hopefully a sign of some credibility.

all good and fair points

a charter series from SOU or from any airport that has no based a/c there is fraught with additional cost such as empty positioning legs or using a W pattern which often involves often putting crews in taxi's halfway across the UK from home bases and Hotac for them maybe too>

this all adds to the cost operation and its why Tour Ops like TUI for instance use Volotea on their SOU and SEN spanish routes and Freebird for their Turkey routes from BOH - so the flights 'start' at the foreign origin and not in the UK - hence no W's or empty legs/positioning flights
In the past eurocypria and helios did the Cyprus flights again starting at origin

Palmair before they started using their own dedicated a/c had to build in the cost of positioning in BCAL, Airways Cymru or Dan Air for instance each time they flew out of BOH

yes SOU home based Flybe are doing some charter work it seems but it is very limited

[vectisman]

My frustration is with the general tone of the whole thread not one particular poster.

[tophat27dt]

My frustration is with the general tone of the whole thread not one particular poster.

I think you'll find it's not only on your thread, my friend.!

[canberra97]

rog747

With regards to Austrian and their F70 fleet they have all been retired along with their F100's.

Around 2000 British Midland Airways operated a F70 to Innsbruck from Southampton for one maybe two seasons on behalf of Inghams and Crystal Ski.

[rog747]

rog747

With regards to Austrian and their F70 fleet they have all been retired along with their F100's.

Around 2000 British Midland Airways operated a F70 to Innsbruck from Southampton for one maybe two seasons on behalf of Inghams and Crystal Ski.

ta for that - A/arrows were doing ski and lakes flights with the F70 as well from BRS back in the day too

[rog747]

My frustration is with the general tone of the whole thread not one particular poster.

at the moment this is def a thread of interest for us locals - an ambitious new charter series and operator in the mist lol

nowt like this since the sad demise of good old Palmair in 2010 (that long!)

seeing that Lolo has some ex Avro and Thomson guys at the helm maybe they can make this work

it just with what and how.....

[canberra97]

ta for that - A/arrows were doing ski and lakes flights with the F70 as well from BRS back in the day too

And as I'm sure your aware until fairly recently Austrian we're also doing ski and lakes flights to Innsbruck from Southampton with the F70 on behalf of Inghams.

[Nakata77]

Apparently easyJet are planning SOU-PMI 4 times weekly from S19

[The Nutts Mutts]

Well, if true then that is fantastic news. It also seems like a very sensible route choice- a base at one end, a well-known route from SOU and one which has/will see capacity reductions from Volotea and Flybe when the 195s go.
4 per week also leaves Flybe a niche in which to operate if they choose to. I suspect on this route EZY will drive their own demand by putting SOU on the radar of people who may not have considered it before, as well as stopping some leakage to BOH, LHR and LGW.
If and when they announce it that will mean that EZY have gone from having no presence at SOU whatsoever to competing on the busiest ski and sun routes from there in just over a year and a half.

[stewyb]

Apparently easyJet are planning SOU-PMI 4 times weekly from S19

So my rumour may have had some substance! 😉

[stewyb]

Can anyone please confirm if an E75 could operate successfully from SOU to the Med/mainland Spain during the summer months? Cheers

[Buster the Bear]

The Palma roumer would fit in with the increased base size planned for that airport in 2019.

[TCAS FAN]

Can anyone please confirm if an E75 could operate successfully from SOU to the Med/mainland Spain during the summer months? Cheers

Unless the engines on the newly to be delivered E175s are uprated from those currently in service, I believe that the take-off weight restrictions will make operation to southern Spain/Balearics uneconomic.

[EK77WNCL]

I do have a lot of hopes for easyJet at Southampton, fantastic little airport! Southampton has a great niche, and as long as it doesn't outgrow that, I think it will remain one of the best airports in the country, in my opinion.

My main hope is that EZY doesn't try and go head to head with BE, domestically. BFS and EDI... Maybe, but no more. I could quite easily see EZY thrash Flybe on routes like NCL, but based on their track record with NCL-STN/LGW, abysmal schedules NCL-BRS and half arsed NCL-BFS rotations... I'll keep the x3 daily Dash 8 please!

Your Alicantes, Palma's, Malaga's... Fire away EZY!

[shamrock7seal]

SOU could easily sustain a 3 aircraft base possibly 4 or 5. Tbh, a lot of the Flybe domestics need some healthy competition especially EDI BFS, how about a new INV service? JER would also be interesting and very fast route for them similar to LPL-BFS or LPL-IOM.

[gkmeech]

Can anyone please confirm if an E75 could operate successfully from SOU to the Med/mainland Spain during the summer months? Cheers

Flybe currently operate E75 from Doncaster to Southern Spain if that helps

Graham

[stewyb]

Flybe currently operate E75 from Doncaster to Southern Spain if that helps

Graham
Although Doncaster has no runway length restrictions like SOU. As TCAS Fan has advised, the E75 will be restricted in summer months I'm assuming due to engine performance and weight limits versus field length (hot weather performance)!

[TCAS FAN]

stewyb

Got it in one. When the intent to order the E75 was first announced it was hailed (by SOU management) as the aircraft that would push PAX figures through 2 million. A smaller version of the E95 was apparently going to open up many more European and Scandinavian destinations. The term "pocket rocket" was heard on a number of occassions!

All fell flat when Maybe announced that they were going for the de-rated engines, presumably to reduce operating costs. Off a relatively short runway as SOU this knocked the expansion plans on the head due to the impact on take-off weights and thereby payload restrictions.that would result.

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
Thanks for the informative info(yet again).regarding the rumour of possible Easy Palma flights in 2019,what are the implications for SOU?.I presume it would be a A320,what are the limitations with the runway restrictions?.
Obviously any expansion at the airport to accommodate Easy would require apron adjustments etc,which brings us back to the old chestnut of airside development or lack of!

[TCAS FAN]

RW20

Do not have current performance data on A320. Without doubt it will be weight limited, but obviously Easy are comfortable with that. If they are intending use of the Neo's, should be a significant improvement in take-off weights/payload increase, but IMHO will still be weight restricted.

[adfly]

stewyb

Got it in one. When the intent to order the E75 was first announced it was hailed (by SOU management) as the aircraft that would push PAX figures through 2 million. A smaller version of the E95 was apparently going to open up many more European and Scandinavian destinations. The term "pocket rocket" was heard on a number of occassions!

All fell flat when Maybe announced that they were going for the de-rated engines, presumably to reduce operating costs. Off a relatively short runway as SOU this knocked the expansion plans on the head due to the impact on take-off weights and thereby payload restrictions.that would result.
Here you go, it was 8 years ago! Flybe's new investment a major boost for Southampton International Airport | Daily Echo (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8284059.1_000_new_jobs_thanks_to___3bn_airline_deal/)

I wonder how the size of Flybe's SOU operation compares between now and then actually. I've always had the impression that every time it has grown said growth has been wiped out in the next round of cuts and restructuring, but perhaps something is happening in the background!

[gkmeech]

TCAS FAN
Thanks for the informative info(yet again).regarding the rumour of possible Easy Palma flights in 2019,what are the implications for SOU?.I presume it would be a A320,what are the limitations with the runway restrictions?.
Obviously any expansion at the airport to accommodate Easy would require apron adjustments etc,which brings us back to the old chestnut of airside development or lack of!

If, as suggested, they are operating 4 times weekly I guess they wouldn't have a based aircraft. More than likely use an aircraft based in Palma, or run a W pattern from a UK base. Certainly no need to change anything airside, as they ran their winter Geneva service quite successfully as it is.

[stewyb]

If, as suggested, they are operating 4 times weekly I guess they wouldn't have a based aircraft. More than likely use an aircraft based in Palma, or run a W pattern from a UK base. Certainly no need to change anything airside, as they ran their winter Geneva service quite successfully as it is.

I beg to differ and feel that if the airport want to retain/expand with the likes of EZY, then they will need to upgrade airfield infrastructure in the very near future! If PMI or any other routes are to be operated, I believe EZY will commence using the A319 to test the water. Volotea have successfully used this model for the past few seasons so clearly it works although I am not privy to any weight restrictions there may have been.

[SWBKCB]

Volotea have successfully used this model for the past few seasons so clearly it works although I am not privy to any weight restrictions there may have been.

I thought Volotea had reduced operations from SOU?

[RW20]

Volotea are operating into SOU under the TUI banner only,they have withdrawn there scheduled services.
I also believe that any Easy operation to PMI would be limited and as stated in earlier posts the airside current apron space would be acceptable.However any other increase in Easy operations or other operators would require airside investment, something that has been needed for many years,so expectations on this happening have to remain low.

[MARKEYD]

Noticed that Flybe have re started Dusseldorf in mid January 19 , giving a 2/3 month break in between

[Rivet Joint]

Noticed that Flybe have re started Dusseldorf in mid January 19 , giving a 2/3 month break in between

surprise surprise. This is why we need this lot out of SOU. Even in the face of potential serious competition in EZY, they are still acting like they untouchable. This is the only German route, and despite the figures being good (likewise with Munich) SOU is going to be left with no German route for a considerable amount of time. Let’s not forget how hard they tried to fight BMI of the Munich route only to now drop all the German routes. Has happened so many times, Brussels anyone? Look what has happened to Eastern’s long standing operation lately since BE got involved? Aberdeen dropped and Leeds reduced? Didn’t BE truly and force them off those routes previously as well? Maybe BE still know the tight lot at SOU are never going to put their hand in their pockets and allow meaningful competition, either way the airport is going to stagnate with flymaybe calling the shots. Meanwhile at Southend.....

[Rivet Joint]

I do have a lot of hopes for easyJet at Southampton, fantastic little airport! Southampton has a great niche, and as long as it doesn't outgrow that, I think it will remain one of the best airports in the country, in my opinion.

My main hope is that EZY doesn't try and go head to head with BE, domestically. BFS and EDI... Maybe, but no more. I could quite easily see EZY thrash Flybe on routes like NCL, but based on their track record with NCL-STN/LGW, abysmal schedules NCL-BRS and half arsed NCL-BFS rotations... I'll keep the x3 daily Dash 8 please!

Your Alicantes, Palma's, Malaga's... Fire away EZY!

no offence, but are you mad? Why on earth would you not want EZY to serve domestic routes? The fares alone would be halved. Do you like paying twice the money to fly on a smaller and slower plane? We are talking 200k odd annual passengers on the Scottish routes alone, you would hope EZY would want a slice of that. Would it be wild to imagine them doubling that total with much cheaper fares? Manchester, Newcastle, Dublin and Belfast also could be served. They only drawback is that frequencies might drop but who cares if bigger planes are flying to take up the slack. You ask anyone locally about BE and they all have the same hate filled opinion of them. They are nothing short of a basket case waiting to be put out of their misery. A shame because they had a lot of promise back when they started. Regardless of this, For SOU it is a case that BE are better than nothing. With EZY, they would fit SOU like a glove. Make it happen SOU!

[shamrock7seal]

no offence, but are you mad? Why on earth would you not want EZY to serve domestic routes? The fares alone would be halved. Do you like paying twice the money to fly on a smaller and slower plane? We are talking 200k odd annual passengers on the Scottish routes alone, you would hope EZY would want a slice of that. Would it be wild to imagine them doubling that total with much cheaper fares? Manchester, Newcastle, Dublin and Belfast also could be served. They only drawback is that frequencies might drop but who cares if bigger planes are flying to take up the slack. You ask anyone locally about BE and they all have the same hate filled opinion of them. They are nothing short of a basket case waiting to be put out of their misery. A shame because they had a lot of promise back when they started. Regardless of this, For SOU it is a case that BE are better than nothing. With EZY, they would fit SOU like a glove. Make it happen SOU!



Totally agreed Rivet Joint - it's one of the only airports in the Country which is reliant on Flybe (even Exeter has a TUI based operation) and personally I prefer to drive past the airport to fly on a Jet (hate those turboprops and flybes late record) from LHR but that could be cos i'm airplane geek. SOU is a major city and international port and it surprises me that it is stuck at 2m pax while the likes of NCL, LPL, EMA, ABZ (all comparable cities in my opinion) are at the 4-5m level with multiple carriers.

[PDXCWL45]

Totally agreed Rivet Joint - it's one of the only airports in the Country which is reliant on Flybe (even Exeter has a TUI based operation) and personally I prefer to drive past the airport to fly on a Jet (hate those turboprops and flybes late record) from LHR but that could be cos i'm airplane geek. SOU is a major city and international port and it surprises me that it is stuck at 2m pax while the likes of NCL, LPL, EMA, ABZ (all comparable cities in my opinion) are at the 4-5m level with multiple carriers.
But those airports don't have the restrictions that Southampton has. I do think SOU needs to be careful not to drive away Flybe as they bring a lot of connections that EZY won't and they'll never have the same scale operation. And as someone who's flown Flybe quite a few times their no worse than any other airline.

[stewyb]

But those airports don't have the restrictions that Southampton has. I do think SOU needs to be careful not to drive away Flybe as they bring a lot of connections that EZY won't and they'll never have the same scale operation. And as someone who's flown Flybe quite a few times their no worse than any other airline.

Agreed. BE for all their faults do provide a regular service to the British Isles and near continent and the operation fits SOU very well. However, this is not to say that the airport does not require more competition and EZY would provide this alternative on core routes like EDI, BFS, MAN & JER along with the med routes of course!

[PDXCWL45]

Agreed. BE for all their faults do provide a regular service to the British Isles and near continent and the operation fits SOU very well. However, this is not to say that the airport does not require more competition and EZY would provide this alternative on core routes like EDI, BFS, MAN & JER along with the med routes of course!
If EZY were to introduce any sort of large scale operation at SOU they'd also probably want to do AMS and CDG and I'd imagine BCN as well. Not too mention the usual holiday routes.

[JobsaGoodun]

It would be reasonable to expect that any considerable increase in traffic at SOU for EZY would risk cannibalising their LGW operation so if they do anything, they'll need to tread carefully, especially given that BA have considerably increased capacity at LGW this summer with the slots they purchased from Monarch.

I thinks it's also worth considering that whilst SOU might benefit from more European destinations from EZY, domestics would likely lose considerable frequency. You only have to look at IOMLGW which, when competed, went from 3 / 4 frequencies with Flybe to just single daily on some days with EZY. Not much use for business. Now that may not happen at SOU but there is a reason EZY haven't decided to build an operation there already.

If services are to be launched and sustained, you need an airline that wants to do so and an airport willing to support that development. I wouldn't default to the view that the lack of development at SOU is solely the fault of the incumbent airlines, There must be some reason as to why Flybe have reduced the number of based aircraft at SOU between last summer and this summer whilst maintaining or growing their numbers at other bases. If the environment doesn't facilitate growth, that's not necessarily the sole fault of the airline and they shouldn't be blamed for it.

[stewyb]

Any EZY growth will be slow and most likely involve PMI (summer 2019) and AGP/ALC at some stage

[SWBKCB]

They only drawback is that frequencies might drop but who cares if bigger planes are flying to take up the slack. You ask anyone locally about BE and they all have the same hate filled opinion of them. They are nothing short of a basket case waiting to be put out of their misery. A shame because they had a lot of promise back when they started. Regardless of this, For SOU it is a case that BE are better than nothing. With EZY, they would fit SOU like a glove. Make it happen SOU!

So frequency isn't important so long as the flights are cheap?

If BE are so ripe for picking makes you wonder why EZY hasn't moved in already....

[PDXCWL45]

Any EZY growth will be slow and most likely involve PMI (summer 2019) and AGP/ALC at some stage
If EZY open a base then I'd have thought it would be 2 to 3 aircraft minimum. If they operate routes like PMI AGP and ALC with non based aircraft then that could suggest a strategy change towards non based UK regional airports.

[canberra97]

Could we possibly stop this IF and WHEN EasyJet start operations from Southampton to all the destinations that others have mentioned until they as in EasyJet actually confirm their intentions of expanding on their lone single seasonal flight from Geneva we can actually be more serious as it's getting a bit tiresome.

It's either lack of bad airport management, lack of airside improvements, a need for an extended taxiway and EasyJet setting up a base until all of those are confirmed can we discuss other things relating to SOU!

I as much as anyone else on this thread very much welcome the day that EasyJet make an official announcement regarding any further plans regarding Southampton but all this will they won't they, fly here or there is getting rather tiresome.

Rant over I'll blame it on the heat :-)

[stewyb]

Could we possibly stop this IF and WHEN EasyJet start operations from Southampton to all the destinations that others have mentioned until they as in EasyJet actually confirm their intentions of expanding on their lone single seasonal flight from Geneva we can actually be more serious as it's getting a bit tiresome.

It's either lack of bad airport management, lack of airside improvements, a need for an extended taxiway and EasyJet setting up a base until all of those are confirmed can we discuss other things relating to SOU!

I as much as anyone else on this thread very much welcome the day that EasyJet make an official announcement regarding any further plans regarding Southampton but all this will they won't they, fly here or there is getting rather tiresome.

Rant over I'll blame it on the heat :-)

just for you Canberra, in other news, the airport saw 147156 passengers in March, down 6.5% on same month last year and would assume this was mainly due to the snow at the start of the month

[darren1]

If the airport was the goldmine all the armchair CEOs on here thought it was Flybe would have competition by now.

[MARKEYD]

Easy jet figures for March saw 5106 passengers use the Geneva route

Don't have the Flybe figures but say Flybe operated 14 flights with a load of 65 pax then Easy jet saw 137 pax ( 1 cancelled flight included ) or if Flybe loads were 75 pax per flight then Easy jet had 125 pax on mix of 319/ 320 aircraft

[shamrock7seal]

New MD announced. He has a very strong operational background but little commercial background and has already been at the airport for 8 years. However, it could be just what the airports needs in terms of airside development and operational upgrades as he'll no doubt know what to do on that score.

[stewyb]

New MD announced. He has a very strong operational background but little commercial background and has already been at the airport for 8 years. However, it could be just what the airports needs in terms of airside development and operational upgrades as he'll no doubt know what to do on that score.

Good luck to him. Seems the owners (AGS) are promoting both their Head of Ops to MD roles at SOU & GLA!

[Rivet Joint]

New MD announced. He has a very strong operational background but little commercial background and has already been at the airport for 8 years. However, it could be just what the airports needs in terms of airside development and operational upgrades as he'll no doubt know what to do on that score.

All sounds very deja vu. The last guy was in various roles at the airport for a long period of time as well. Too early to write the new guy off just yet, just think some new blood was probably what SOU needed.

[Rivet Joint]

If the airport was the goldmine all the armchair CEOs on here thought it was Flybe would have competition by now.

They have no competition, they have slowly swallowed them all up over the years only to sit on their laurels. There are no national operators with regional aircraft. Hence why we are all frustrated that investment has not been forthcoming to open up SOU to the low cost operators (with their bigger aircraft). I am with Canberra though, this topic has been discussed at length now, so can probably be parked. The irony is that it has been discussed at such length because there is nothing else to talk about.......

[stewyb]

Flybe Fleet Review

http://www.flybe.com/media/news-archives/1805/1605/

Easiest and cheapest option taken here and expect the new E75 winglets to be the same as KLM. Interesting that the E95 is now being de-fleeted early 2020 as I thought they were being removed before S19 (maybe we will see some sun routes from SOU next year after all!)

[TCAS FAN]

Flybe Fleet Review

Great, just include up-rated engines on the new 175s and they can do something worthwhile at SOU.

[stewyb]

Flybe Fleet Review

Great, just incude up-rated engines on the new 175s and they can do something worthwhile at SOU.

Don't think this is an option on their purchase, only new winglets for improved fuel burn!

[tczulu]

In the blurb by the head Bombardier honcho,he says the Q400 has class leading reliability. Right.��

[MARKEYD]

Dusseldorf with Flybe has now been put on sale throughout the winter with no gaps as previously reported , daily except Saturday

Noticed that the airport have increased the drop off fee to £ 2 for 15 min from June , better watch out or else it will catch up with Bournemouth !

[stewyb]

Dusseldorf with Flybe has now been put on sale throughout the winter with no gaps as previously reported , daily except Saturday

Noticed that the airport have increased the drop off fee to £ 2 for 15 min from June , better watch out or else it will catch up with Bournemouth !

good news re Dusseldorf but as previous posters have mentioned, the airport seems to have stagnated recently and new route announcements are very much needed!

[RW20]

Southampton is falling behind with expansion of any routes,the airport management seems stagnated,airside development is non existent,it seems that they are happy to plod on regardless!.
simply the airport will fall behind further without any progressive development.

[stewyb]

By my recollection the last new route/airline announcement was EZY GVA last July. We are now almost 12 months on and not another single addition. Poor show SOU, must do better!!!

[SWBKCB]

simply the airport will fall behind further without any progressive development.

Poor show SOU, must do better!!!

SOU is constantly criticized for not being "progressive" - so what is your definition of success?

[RW20]

Definition of success: increase in passenger numbers,and not -6% as recently reported!

[SWBKCB]

At any cost?

[stewyb]

SOU is constantly criticized for not being "progressive" - so what is your definition of success?

For starters ​​​​​​the business community in the south, of which there are many, would gladly jump on a plane to the likes of Munich, Frankfurt and Brussels, yet instead they have to slog their way up to Gatwick and Heathrow. Munich has recently come to an abrupt end although as I understand the route was popular and yields increasing nicely. SOU airport placed on their twitter page months ago for feedback on a Brussels link but no more has been heard and other financial cities in Europe have come and gone. For an airport that prides itself on business connectivity instead of bucket and spade, the destinations for corporates in the south are not overly well served and the airport I am certain could do better!

[Deano777]

Maybe they don't want to do better? Maybe they're happy with their lot as it stands. Maybe it's the pprune community that want it more?

[PDXCWL45]

For starters ​​​​​​the business community in the south, of which there are many, would gladly jump on a plane to the likes of Munich, Frankfurt and Brussels, yet instead they have to slog their way up to Gatwick and Heathrow.
I think you just said the reason right there. Heathrow and Gatwick are just up the road with like a dozen flights a day each on routes like that. Unless an airline like Flybe or BMI operate those routes other airlines aren't going to as they don't see the need.

[Nakata77]

Why do people go on and on about SOU-MUC. The airline tried it for goodness sake. Frankfurt and Zurich were also attempted 15 years ago. If the yields were 'improving nicely' and 'it was popular' it would still be going. But it isn't because it wasn't viable. So either yields were not improving nicely or the passengers continued to use LHR due to the flight frequency choice. Either way it was not viable. With LHR just 60mins up the road SOU is going to struggle big time to go beyond 2m pax especially when considering the 3rd runway looming.

Therefore there is a finite level of demand at SOU - as other posters on here have mentioned. SOU is the ONLY airport in the country that is 1hr drive from LHR but not classified as a 'London' alternative airport. It's suffering from the 'black hole' effect that is LHR and LGW. Just look at U2 on SOU-GVA. SOU-GVA can only support 3 times per week, yet BOH can support 5-6 times per week as it is more distant from LHR and LGW & attracts a more western geographic catchment area. People in London are very unlikely to consider traveling to SOU to catch a flight.

I'd also be alarmed that the CEO up and left seeing more potential at BRS than SOU.

[Rivet Joint]

Why do people go on and on about SOU-MUC. The airline tried it for goodness sake. Frankfurt and Zurich were also attempted 15 years ago. If the yields were 'improving nicely' and 'it was popular' it would still be going. But it isn't because it wasn't viable. So either yields were not improving nicely or the passengers continued to use LHR due to the flight frequency choice. Either way it was not viable. With LHR just 60mins up the road SOU is going to struggle big time to go beyond 2m pax especially when considering the 3rd runway looming.

Therefore there is a finite level of demand at SOU - as other posters on here have mentioned. SOU is the ONLY airport in the country that is 1hr drive from LHR but not classified as a 'London' alternative airport. It's suffering from the 'black hole' effect that is LHR and LGW. Just look at U2 on SOU-GVA. SOU-GVA can only support 3 times per week, yet BOH can support 5-6 times per week as it is more distant from LHR and LGW & attracts a more western geographic catchment area. People in London are very unlikely to consider traveling to SOU to catch a flight.

I'd also be alarmed that the CEO up and left seeing more potential at BRS than SOU.

bore off back to the BOH thread Nakata. Your attempt to claim a vicotory for BOH over SOU is laughable. EZY have only operated out of SOU for one season and it went on sale pretty late. Given time I expect the route to be up to 5/6 rotations a week, whilst BOH is reduced to a weekend rotation.

arguements about LGW and LHR being up the road are a load of rubbish. I suppose the likes Luton, Stanstead, City and Southend should give up as well? The south is probably the most affluent area outside London, ripe market for city breaks and weekends away. Nobody flies from Heathrow unless it’s longhaul or connecting. Yes LGW is currently the default low cost carrier home, but it’s an awful airport and a right pain to get to. SOU could easily take a share of their market. And why would EZY cannibalise it’s own routes you might ask? Well, firstly they would not be losing any money stealing from themselves. Secondly, for an airline to remain profitable/competitive, it needs to maintain a certain growth, which the London airports cannot or shortly cannot provide for. Thirdly, if EZY based 6 aircraft at SOU and maxed out the stand availability, is there much chance of Ryanair being able to open a base and compete with them? They would have a captive market. The likes of flymaybe, BMI are wishy washy, their constant chopping and changing is no reflection on SOU.

[SWBKCB]

The likes of flymaybe, BMI are wishy washy, their constant chopping and changing is no reflection on SOU.

Really? I thought it was all the fault of the lackadaisical, unimaginative airport management and they're refusal to invest.

The central question is never really answered - if SOU is such a plum, why is it never picked?


Nobody flies from Heathrow unless it’s longhaul or connecting interesting comment, what's your source? :ok:

[Wycombe]

I for one would agree with the above sentiment re. LHR. I live in W Berks (almost exactly equidistant between LHR and SOU) and will always use SOU for domestic and local Europe (where available) flights.

The fact that I can turn up at SOU, park outside the Terminal and be back in the car on the way home 10 mins after landing are always going to trump the LHR experience for short flights. In my time I've done GLA, EDI, BHD, BRU, FRA as well as JER and GCI from SOU and it's a pity some of those are no longer available/can't be made to work.

[Plane.Silly]

The central question is never really answered - if SOU is such a plum, why is it never picked?

Because everyone likes a 'prize plum'?

[MerchantVenturer]

I'd also be alarmed that the CEO up and left seeing more potential at BRS than SOU.
Might just be better pay. A previous BRS CEO moved from there to NCL then to LBA so perhaps he saw more potential in those airports. BRS has severe limitations with its site including runway, although perhaps not quite as challenging as SOU's site, but has managed to get to 8 mppa, with 12 mppa projected by 2025. That will be a challenge to a new CEO.

[canberra97]

Really? I thought it was all the fault of the lackadaisical, unimaginative airport management and they're refusal to invest.

The central question is never really answered - if SOU is such a plum, why is it never picked?

interesting comment, what's your source? :ok:

Exactly!

I live approximately 5 miles from Southampton Airport and I am in my early fifties and travel a fair bit with at least 12 or so flights taken a year with the majority of them being short haul European flights with British Airways yet in all my life I have only ever use Southampton Airport on five occasions so I don't think your comment makes any sense.

I would love to use SOU more but with LHR just an hour away and LGW doable in approximately hour and a half and both offering the destinations that I need to fly to with the schedules that suits and that's where SOU fails, I was made up when we had a service to Barcelona a few years ago and used Vueling but now I have to drive past my local airport to get there.

There are many destinations that could be served from SOU and I personally can't see why the airport can't sustain such routes to key European cities.

[Rivet Joint]

Really? I thought it was all the fault of the lackadaisical, unimaginative airport management and they're refusal to invest.

The central question is never really answered - if SOU is such a plum, why is it never picked?



interesting comment, what's your source? :ok:

In response to your first point, simple, because there are limitations preventing the low cost lot from setting up shop. This has been discussed over and over. You aren’t going to get much trade up a goat path. Replace it with a motorway and you are in business. SOU is owned by a pension company, who unsurprisingly hire MDs internally (a safe pair of hands, or in other words a yes man). Basically they are happy to run with anything that falls in their lap. So rock (investment required to unlock potential) and hard place (airport with no need for aspirations).

Second point, Well why would you choose one of the busiest/most congested airports in the world to make a short hop to Europe?

[Nakata77]

Love you too Rivet Joint. SEN is not an hour away from LHR, min of 90 mins if you're lucky (i.e NO traffic at all)

The airport should discourage Flybe from doing AMS and try and get KLM to do a more attractive 4-times daily schedule.

Anyway the future of SOU seems to lie in the hands of flylolo (wasn't that a comedic parody of flybe on bbc?)

[SWBKCB]

You aren’t going to get much trade up a goat path. Replace it with a motorway and you are in business.

So the investment case is "build it and they will come"? Does history support this, for example what's currently stopping KLM doing multiple flights a day?

[Groundloop]

The airport should discourage Flybe from doing AMS

So, how exactly would they do that? How does an airport "discourage" an airline from operating a route?

[FrequentlyFlying]

Is this supposed to be for serious comment? Did I really just read Easy would cannibalise what they have at LGW and risk the split as ‘it’s all going to them anyway’ serious? Operational costs? Logistical costs? Revenue drops? Someone else picks up any vacation after the point is reached one or the otheris dropped? Vs leaving the operation 60 min down the road in major airport that handles traffic all weathers and all volumes happily generating decent returns for a short runway and a considerable issue with infrastructure.. and ‘base 6 planes there’? Where? Do they land 3 hours apart so the infrastructure doesn’t get overrun? What level of investment is that gonna take? Perhaps they can bury the motorway in a tunnel if money isn’t an issue..
Really? City breaks, smaller c series jets is best option of expansion, not a large LCC destroying its own 60 mins away market surely?

[stewyb]

Is this supposed to be for serious comment? Did I really just read Easy would cannibalise what they have at LGW and risk the split as ‘it’s all going to them anyway’ serious? Operational costs? Logistical costs? Revenue drops? Someone else picks up any vacation after the point is reached one or the otheris dropped? Vs leaving the operation 60 min down the road in major airport that handles traffic all weathers and all volumes happily generating decent returns for a short runway and a considerable issue with infrastructure.. and ‘base 6 planes there’? Where? Do they land 3 hours apart so the infrastructure doesn’t get overrun? What level of investment is that gonna take? Perhaps they can bury the motorway in a tunnel if money isn’t an issue..
Really? City breaks, smaller c series jets is best option of expansion, not a large LCC destroying its own 60 mins away market surely?

Not for one second do i believe EZY will base aircraft from SOU in the foreseeable future. However, they could quite conceivably operate a small number of routes from their EZY bases throughout Europe with rumours abound that PMI will commence next summer. I don't see how this will dilute the LGW operation when PMI and other med routes have operated successfully from SOU for years and EZY will most likely be taking on the mantle from the incumbent airline and the repeat business that this enjoys!

[Rivet Joint]

Not for one second do i believe EZY will base aircraft from SOU in the foreseeable future. However, they could quite conceivably operate a small number of routes from their EZY bases throughout Europe with rumours abound that PMI will commence next summer. I don't see how this will dilute the LGW operation when PMI and other med routes have operated successfully from SOU for years and EZY will most likely be taking on the mantle from the incumbent airline and the repeat business that this enjoys!

Of course they could open a base. Have you seen how many aircraft they have on order? Like with all low cost carriers, they are always looking for the next place to park a few. Why wouldn’t SOU with its affluent catchment and biggest cruise turnaround port in Europe not be an option?

Yes the runway is an issue, but Southend’s isn’t much longer? Basically, Southend is the antidote to every arguement against EZY basing at SOU. Larger stands can be created to the north east of the airport (see master plan). One of the options even included a second terminal to serve the north east stands (maybe EZY could have there own terminal).

do I think any of the above will happen, no of course not. To say EZY wouldn’t open a base if SOU provided them the right environment is not true though.

[Rivet Joint]

Love you too Rivet Joint. SEN is not an hour away from LHR, min of 90 mins if you're lucky (i.e NO traffic at all)

The airport should discourage Flybe from doing AMS and try and get KLM to do a more attractive 4-times daily schedule.

Anyway the future of SOU seems to lie in the hands of flylolo (wasn't that a comedic parody of flybe on bbc?)

flylolo will not work, especially from SOU. It’s much more a BOH operation (I.e a charter airline). You could probably say SOU and BOH are their own worst enemies. Neither management team appears to have much drive. At least BOH had the luck to be owned by a transport operator, SOU seems to only ever have been owned by pension funds. If only BAA sold to Stobart!

[shamrock7seal]

Je2 will be launching BOH flights imminently, GVA may be among them

[RRBB]

In terms of proximity to London, SOU is not exploiting its existing infrastructure, being only 1 hour from Waterloo. National Rail Enquries tells me that LGW is 44mins from Waterloo. I would favour the one hour journey down to SOU and a quick walk into the terminal over the stress of LGW (and no doubt the North Terminal transit). If [FlyBE] were to sell rail+air tickets and heavily advertise in the Waterloo region (along with some decent post-work scheduling and routes) then I think SOU could pick up numbers. The reality is that not many people know of this connection (quicker than LHR, LTN and STN) in the Waterloo and Clapham area. It just requires marketing, no capex!

On that note - it is quicker to get from Euston to BHX than to any of the London airports...but that’s not for here!

[paulc]

Southampton seems to be quite happy putting all its eggs in one basket with regards to the principle airline using it going back over many years. Air uk, BA express and now flybe. It seems to me that new routes are few and far betwen and rarely last long for a number of reasons. I did the bmi route sou to muc last year and timings worked well but had a poor load (22 people inc 8 in a stag party) so no wonder it has been pulled this year.

[RW20]

Other there any indication s on how Lolo Skiathos bookings are doing?
Personally I can't see many of these flights departing from SOU,they surely will need to use BOU when it's warm due to runway restrictions?. Southampton has had little news about any form of growth for sometime,maybe it has reached its zenith with pax numbers and indeed will see a falling away of sun routes in 2019.

[stewyb]

Charges double for drivers using Southampton Airport in price hike | Daily Echo (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/16265462.Charges_double_for_drivers_using_Southampton_Airpor t_in_price_hike/)

I think if people could see the airport being pro-active with infrastructure change and a better choice of airlines/routes being made available, then this additional charge would be a little easier to swallow!

[SWBKCB]

More likely they would moan just as much - look what happens when Airport Development charges are introduced.

[Buster the Bear]

Free in the Long Term and catch the bus,there is a zero cost option.

[RW20]

What is happening at Southampton?, simply not a lot!
southend who up to recently were using SOU as an example of regional airport progression,is now after much airside investment flourishing with Ryanair the latest to announce routes,what is SOU news?: Once a week Skiathos route which will have use BOU if it's to hot!!!. Really Southampton will be lucky to reach the 2m pax number ever again!.SOU is a floundering airport with every chance of slipping further into the also run league. What was once a shining prospect is now a rapidly fading star.

[stewyb]

What is happening at Southampton?, simply not a lot!
southend who up to recently were using SOU as an example of regional airport progression,is now after much airside investment flourishing with Ryanair the latest to announce routes,what is SOU news?: Once a week Skiathos route which will have use BOU if it's to hot!!!. Really Southampton will be lucky to reach the 2m pax number ever again!.SOU is a floundering airport with every chance of slipping further into the also run league. What was once a shining prospect is now a rapidly fading star.

Have to agree with you RW20. The airport bang on about continuous improvement and expanding passenger choice with route additions yet July 2017 was the last time a new route announcement was made. I can only assume that SOU are happy with their lot and don't want to expand further. As I mentioned some time ago, there have been talks regarding EZY for next summer but doubt this will come to fruition what with the lack of drive the airport and its owners demonstrate. In the meantime we will continue to see other airports that maybe don't have the USP's that SOU has continue to be pro-active and widen their route appeal to its customers. It comes to something when perhaps SOU are hanging their hat on Flylolo offering a charter package next summer to satisfy demand!

[MARKEYD]

An article today on the Southampton airport news page explains how the new Skiathos route is performing so far . Depends how you read it really

As expected and commented on at the beginning when Fly Lolo launched the route there is a weight restriction on it , of only 97 passengers per flight , blaming the short runway at Skiathos as the issue , using a 118 seat Flybe 195

The first flight is 80 % sold making it about 78 passengers on the the first flight which starts on the 3 rd July but obviously could go up a bit more

I would have thought rather than bin the Palma route which the aircraft was initially on , they should have kept this route and looked for another operator , if indeed there was one . Fly Lolo must be paying Flybe a lot of money to use there aircraft in the face of not operating there Palma service

[adfly]

CAA stats for April/May are as follows:

April - 168,899 passengers, +2% on last year
May - 187,987 passengers, +4% on last year

Surprising but good to still see some growth despite fewer flights this summer, will be interesting to see how the airport performs over the peak season, where the capacity difference is most noticeable. Much of that growth seems down to having more capacity on the sun routes earlier in the summer this year as they all show considerable growth in both months. Early loads on the Ibiza and Mahon flights suggest both were pretty much full, when you consider that the first inbound flight for each was presumably empty.

Flylolo are due to start this afternoon. Does anybody know anything more about their plans for next summer, beyond what has been discussed on here previously? I notice some destination pages have been added to their website which has improved it a little, although it still needs a tidy up.

[stewyb]

During this upcoming week last year EZY announced new winter routes inc. SOU-GVA, any chance of an additional SOU route this year?

[canberra97]

During this upcoming week last year EZY announced new winter routes inc. SOU-GVA, any chance of an additional SOU route this year?

All of us on Pprune know just as much as you do regarding the possibility of any new route announcements at SOU and I'm sure if there was any news it would soon be posted.

Until that time I suggest that you wait in anticipation for any press release but to be honest if EasyJet were to add an additional destination from SOU for summer 2019 it would more than likely to have happened by now.

But I do share your frustration regarding a lack of new route/airline announcements at SOU.

[stewyb]

Just trying to keep this thread alive as sod all else is happening!:D

[Planespeaking]

Just trying to keep this thread alive as sod all else is happening!:D


I felt like that about the SEN thread for years, but after £150 million of investment things are changing quite rapidly. SEN has gone from intensive care to a rapid recovery, with Air Malta, EZY, Stobart, Flybe, and next year Ryanair operating .
So never give up hope!

[stewyb]

Investment in SOU speak means a revamped priority lounge and face-lifted WH Smith 😀

[MerchantVenturer]

Just trying to keep this thread alive as sod all else is happening!:D
The SOU thread is quite healthy compared with some. The current thread began in September 2017 and has 668 posts and over 189,000 views. Compare this with something like the current BRS thread that opened in August 2017 but only has 254 posts and 117,000 views. Lots going on at BRS in terms of future airport development and new routes come along regularly. It's over 8 mppa and projecting 10 mppa by 2021 but none of this guarantees a vibrant thread on PPRuNe.

I've learned a lot about SOU from PPRuNe with its complement of regular, knowledgeable posters, with healthy debate at times too.

[Planespeaking]

The SOU thread is quite healthy compared with some. The current thread began in September 2017 and has 668 posts and over 189,000 views. Compare this with something like the current BRS thread that opened in August 2017 but only has 254 posts and 117,000 views. Lots going on at BRS in terms of future airport development and new routes come along regularly. It's over 8 mppa and projecting 10 mppa by 2021 but none of this guarantees a vibrant thread on PPRuNe.

I've learned a lot about SOU from PPRuNe with its complement of regular, knowledgeable posters, with healthy debate at times too.

You are very right. BRS and EMA are busy airports but don't generate much energy on pprune, however Blackpool and Manston, both closed to commercial traffic are still kicked on here once in a while to see if they are still breathing!!

[RND20]

You are very right. BRS and EMA are busy airports but don't generate much energy on pprune, however Blackpool and Manston, both closed to commercial traffic are still kicked on here once in a while to see if they are still breathing!!

Its a shame non UK airport threads arent more active

[adfly]

Flybe have released their Summer 2019 flights up to mid June. Looks as if the E195 will stick around for another year as I can see the following bookable on it:

Alicante - 4 weekly
Faro - 3 weekly
Malaga - 4 weekly
Palma - 3 weekly

Manchester has been cut from 6-5 daily on weekdays and Bordeaux, Brest, Limoges and Rodez are not yet on sale. Most of the rest is pretty similar to this year though from what I can see.

[stewyb]

Flybe have released their Summer 2019 flights up to mid June. Looks as if the E195 will stick around for another year as I can see the following bookable on it:

Alicante - 4 weekly
Faro - 3 weekly
Malaga - 4 weekly
Palma - 3 weekly

Manchester has been cut from 6-5 daily on weekdays and Bordeaux, Brest, Limoges and Rodez are not yet on sale. Most of the rest is pretty similar to this year though from what I can see.

As you say, looks like the E95 will hang around for one more summer season! Most interesting is PMI x 3 as the rumoured x 4 EZY launch + x 2 TUI (already in the timetable) would make 9 weekly, something SOU I don't think has ever had!

[adfly]

As you say, looks like the E95 will hang around for one more summer season! Most interesting is PMI x 3 as the rumoured x 4 EZY launch + x 2 TUI (already in the timetable) would make 9 weekly, something SOU I don't think has ever had!
It will be very well served if the easyjet rumour turns out to be true! The highest number of flights I can recall on the Palma route was 2/3 years ago when it was served 12 weekly, think it was something like:

Evelop - 1 weekly A320 (for Thomas Cook)
Flybe - 7 weekly E95/Q400
Volotea - 4 weekly 319/712 (two scheduled and the other two for Thomson, as they were then)

In fact, if all works out it would seem with Flybe keeping the E195, TUI maintaining their schedule and the expanded Flylolo operation, next year will be the most diverse in a long time when it comes to 'sun' routes, regardless of if easyjet make an appearance.

[rog747]

seat sales last minute now on JSI with Lolo are very cheap £99-£149 return and cheap one ways

re 2019 do we know who they are using for their uplift - flight numbers showing for 2019 SOU flights are prefixed flylolo.com (airlines)

[stewyb]

seat sales last minute now on JSI with Lolo are very cheap £99-£149 return and cheap one ways

re 2019 do we know who they are using for their uplift - flight numbers showing for 2019 SOU flights are prefixed flylolo.com (airlines)

Due to be announced in Sept/Oct according to FlyLoLo. Initial information that it was going to be a F70 operating the schedule although not sure if this has changed. Been told the owner of the aircraft is working through which EU airline will fly the operation (try and work that one out)!

[Rivet Joint]

Flybe have released their Summer 2019 flights up to mid June. Looks as if the E195 will stick around for another year as I can see the following bookable on it:

Alicante - 4 weekly
Faro - 3 weekly
Malaga - 4 weekly
Palma - 3 weekly

Manchester has been cut from 6-5 daily on weekdays and Bordeaux, Brest, Limoges and Rodez are not yet on sale. Most of the rest is pretty similar to this year though from what I can see.

Ground hog day as per usual at SOU. Let’s not reignight the investment to attract another airline debate (even though Southend have just attracted Adria airways on top of Ryanair already this year), but how can flymaybe be so stagnant? I mean it’s not like they have announced anything new at any other bases either. Lets not forget all 195s are going, not to mention a bunch of q400s have been handed back with no replacements planned (more to follow as well). How can the definitive number one regional airline in the UK not be showing plans of growth, or have new aircraft on order (no the 175s outstanding do not count as they clearly don’t want them)? It’s a pretty established fact that to survive in aviation you have to be constantly in growth mode or at least taking an innovative approach, and flymaybe have stood still for many years now. Personally it feels like they are just waiting to be put out of their misery, be it by merger or takeover (they certainly seemed disappointed about the stobart thing not going ahead). What a sad state of affairs for an airline that has a complete monopoly on regional flying. The thing that really grates on me is that when they first came on the scene they were ambitious and innovative, and then systematically removed pretty much all the other regional airlines to only drop half their routes shortly afterwards. Unfortunately SOU are completely in their pocket, and there are no signs of them ridden themselves from the cancer that is flymaybe anytime soon.

[RW20]

Rivet Joint
I could not agree with you more. Southampton is surely facing a critical phase with the decline of Flybe. Missed opportunities and lack of investment will hit hard very soon.Although Southend is in the (London catchment area ) , the management team have shown what can be done with limited runway availability. Southend is investing and reaping the rewards. Southampton is at best stagnating,and very possibly will decline if nothing major happens soon. Massive potential has been overlooked at SOU, and the flylolo proposals are unrealistic and not sustainable.Maybe the airport owners are not interested in development,perhaps they will be looking to sell to highest offer from aproperty developer?

[adfly]

Rivet Joint - In fairness, Flybe usually announce new routes a good few weeks later than the 'core' ones first go on sale. You will notice that no new routes from anywhere have been announced with this release. Having said that, as you have also suggested, I'm not expecting to see much in the way of change...

[Wycombe]

Flybe are in retrenchment mode as that is how they (might) survive as a business. Not good news for SOU but I fear that's how it has to be.

That "ambitious and innovative" approach that you mentioned RJ is what nearly brought them down, and of course that would have been much worse for SOU than what we are seeing now.

[MARKEYD]

Fly Lolo have really been drastically reducing their prices on the Skiathos service this summer with prices almost halved in the next 3 weeks during the peak summer months when in theory they should be full at this time of year
Some of the destinations next year I think they will struggle to fill , regardless of what or if aircraft they decide to go with

[rog747]

Fly Lolo have really been drastically reducing their prices on the Skiathos service this summer with prices almost halved in the next 3 weeks during the peak summer months when in theory they should be full at this time of year
Some of the destinations next year I think they will struggle to fill , regardless of what or if aircraft they decide to go with

I too mentioned this last week - unless Lolo start to get their brand and more advertising spread around then they will not succeed - sorry to be so dismissive but they need a few specialist tour operators like Sunvil, Islands of Greece, Ionian island Villas and James villas to take a block of seats -

when i mention to pals about SOU-JSI flights they know nothing about it - now its being sold at bucket shop prices like tonight or next week

Skiathos to Southampton - £45 one way or £145 return
https://www.loloflights.com/images/lolo.jpg

Depart:
Arrive:
Skiathos (JSI)
Southampton (SOU)
Tue 24 Jul 2018 21:00
Tue 24 Jul 2018 22:30
Direct Flight - operated by Flybe as full charter to Loloflights

[inOban]

I think all the bucket and spade flights are being hit by the lack of last minute demand this year. Something to do with our summer, and the low £. This will particularly affect new/late entrants to the business.

[rog747]

I think all the bucket and spade flights are being hit by the lack of last minute demand this year. Something to do with our summer, and the low £. This will particularly affect new/late entrants to the business.

Yes been confirmed to me that Tour operators dumping holidays due to the UK hot summer which shows no sign of abating just yet

I got SOU-Lake Garda, booked a package hol last week for tomorrow normally £1570 for a week for £599 half board 4 star lake hotel #bargain

[stewyb]

CAA passenger numbers for June show a 5.5% drop on same period last year as the summer capacity reductions start to bite.
Good article below but only goes to show how hugely reliant the airport is on BE!!

https://www.anna.aero/2018/07/30/southampton-airport-passes-two-million-passenger-threshold-in-2017-flybe-is-dominant-carrier-jersey-top-destination-in-peak-s18/

[RW20]

Stewyb
until the airport invests airside,I believe the figures will continue to decline,the airport has missed a golden opportunity to progress with London airports maxing out.
With the distinct possibility that Jet2 will take up Sun routes from Bournemouth in 2019,Southampton future looks increasingly fragile.

[stewyb]

Stewyb
until the airport invests airside,I believe the figures will continue to decline,the airport has missed a golden opportunity to progress with London airports maxing out.
With the distinct possibility that Jet2 will take up Sun routes from Bournemouth in 2019,Southampton future looks increasingly fragile.

And what's worse is the airport hanging their hopes on an expansion of FlyLoLo routes next summer, god help us!:ugh:

[Buster the Bear]

Good loads then!

http://i65.tinypic.com/wbt7gh.jpg

[adfly]

Good loads then!

http://i65.tinypic.com/wbt7gh.jpg
You can dummy book the max of 38 passengers onto almost any of the flights, which suggests the loads are pretty poor. Gonna need a huge advertising push if they are gonna make it work next year, and the website needs a good tidy up. Currently it fails to load for me the first time I try to access it, and there are a few inconsistencies to be found on the site. One positive (partially due to low loads I guess) is that operationally the route seems to have been fairly successful so far with no fuel stops required or major delays or cancellations even in the recent hot weather (as far as I am aware anyway...).

There's an interesting podcast done by AviaDev interviewing the CEO, Paul Dendle which is worth a listen. The Canaries operation from other UK airports seems quite resourceful operationally, especially considering people generally don't care for crap flight times if they can save a few quid.

A link can be found on this page: https://www.aviationdevelop.com/social-feed

I do hope they can make the operation work though, as even though from a passenger number point of view there won't be much gain, it will help to diversify the airports operations and provide local holidaymakers with some extra choice as I'm sure there are plenty who realise there is only so many times you can go to Alicante, Palma or Faro before it gets a bit underwhelming!

[rog747]

tech stop outbound on the JSI will be BRU when loads and/or hot temps dictate off SOU

inbound will be volos or SKG off from JSI

stops not been needed so far due loads which have permitted non-stop ops both ways

source flybe crew last week

[MARKEYD]

With the aircraft load capped at 97 and the fact you can book in excess of 36 passenger still on many services with the fares dropped as well , there really shouldn’t be a need to tech stop

I guess tech stopping in BOH would have written in the contract as a “ no “ to save face at Lolo should it have become necessary

[The Nutts Mutts]

It seems that they're caught between a rock and a hard place here. They'll obviously want to sell as many seats as possible, but doing so increases the risk of a tech stop and if that happens, given the time it would add to the sector, it's very unlikely the aircraft would make it back to Southampton before the airport closed for the night.
I also don't get why they could be performance limited having sold less than 97 seats, surely the 97 seat figure was arrived at to make the performance work? Otherwise why not just sell the whole aircraft and tech stop if required?
That said, I don't understand the negativity towards Lolo on here. I don't like the name and the website could be much better than it currently is, but at least they are trying something new and innovating.
I'm sure SOU airport aren't pinning all their hopes for the future on them, but if they succeed it will be good for the airport as well as the airline.
It just seems strange that people who post on the SOU forum and are supposedly supportive of the airport seem to take great delight in ripping Lolo to shreds seemingly just for existing and trying to make new routes work from SOU. I'd understand it from BOH fanboys but it does seem a little strange how much dislike Lolo have attracted on here from almost everyone.

[rog747]

It seems that they're caught between a rock and a hard place here. They'll obviously want to sell as many seats as possible, but doing so increases the risk of a tech stop and if that happens, given the time it would add to the sector, it's very unlikely the aircraft would make it back to Southampton before the airport closed for the night.
I also don't get why they could be performance limited having sold less than 97 seats, surely the 97 seat figure was arrived at to make the performance work? Otherwise why not just sell the whole aircraft and tech stop if required?
That said, I don't understand the negativity towards Lolo on here. I don't like the name and the website could be much better than it currently is, but at least they are trying something new and innovating.
I'm sure SOU airport aren't pinning all their hopes for the future on them, but if they succeed it will be good for the airport as well as the airline.
It just seems strange that people who post on the SOU forum and are supposedly supportive of the airport seem to take great delight in ripping Lolo to shreds seemingly just for existing and trying to make new routes work from SOU. I'd understand it from BOH fanboys but it does seem a little strange how much dislike Lolo have attracted on here from almost everyone.


i don't think folk here are showing negativity towards Lolo - it's more like informed observation and from experience - (professional airline experience, not amrchair CEO's and plane spotters) my 40 years of holiday airline experience tells me that Lolo needs to do something to make their services work and be apparent from SOU and as fas I can see they have not - whether that be advertising local and or more distant, travel agencies, and getting other tour operators on board to share the load and risk of the flight series etc etc
Volotea did not make it with selling their own scheduled services from SOU nor SEN so they just fly in now for TUI Holidays (packages)
Air Malta has started from SEN to MLA via on some days Cagliari and Catania with selling rights

the IT market down this way EXT BOH and SOU is pretty much sewn up by TUI and in part Thomas Cook from EXT
Palmair is long gone sadly and they were the only ones who made it work, once - and they had a massive loyal repeat clientele plus their own high st agencies - but still they closed down.

[rog747]

With the aircraft load capped at 97 and the fact you can book in excess of 36 passenger still on many services with the fares dropped as well , there really shouldn’t be a need to tech stop

I guess tech stopping in BOH would have written in the contract as a “ no “ to save face at Lolo should it have become necessary

lol in which case a 'split load' would have been very attractive to the BOH catchment area - but then we have the issues of crewing 4 sector days on a long Greek island flight and it would likely not work out well

[canberra97]

i don't think folk here are showing negativity towards Lolo - it's more like informed observation and from experience - (professional airline experience, not amrchair CEO's and plane spotters) my 40 years of holiday airline experience tells me that Lolo needs to do something to make their services work and be apparent from SOU and as fas I can see they have not - whether that be advertising local and or more distant, travel agencies, and getting other tour operators on board to share the load and risk of the flight series etc etc
Volotea did not make it with selling their own scheduled services from SOU nor SEN so they just fly in now for TUI Holidays (packages)
Air Malta has started from SEN to MLA via on some days Cagliari and Catania with selling rights

the IT market down this way EXT BOH and SOU is pretty much sewn up by TUI and in part Thomas Cook from EXT
Palmair is long gone sadly and they were the only ones who made it work, once - and they had a massive loyal repeat clientele plus their own high st agencies - but still they closed down.

Good post but if I can just point out one error!

Volotea has only ever served one destination within the UK on a scheduled basis and that was only SOU, the airlines flights to SEN have always been chartered flights operating on behalf of TUI as they do with their current SOU flights to Ibiza and Palma.

Volotea previously operated twice weekly scheduled flights from SOU to Palma and once weekly to Ibiza along with the current twice weekly flights to Palma operated on behalf of TUI as well as Ibiza once a week which was originally scheduled.

SOU has a huge catchment area and largely a wealthy one and the airport and airlines need to be more proactive in promoting flights from the airport, the amount of people that I chat to are unaware of what is on offer and even Vueling didn't last long on BCN to SOU a route that surely should have succeeded but it didn't purely because hardly no one other than aviation enthusiasts knew it existed and therefore loads were light but theoretically the route should have been a success and could have culminated in Vueling expanding at SOU in a similar way to how they have done at CWL.

There was talk on these forums a few weeks ago regarding EasyJet starting 4 x weekly flights from Palma in summer 2019, since nothing has materialised I should imagine that we can take that rumour with a large pinch of salt but it would be absolutely great for the airport if it eventually happened.

[PDXCWL45]

Good post but if I can just point out one error!

Volotea has only ever served one destination within the UK on a scheduled basis and that was only SOU, the airlines flights to SEN have always been chartered flights operating on behalf of TUI as they do with their current SOU flights to Ibiza and Palma.

Volotea previously operated twice weekly scheduled flights from SOU to Palma and once weekly to Ibiza along with the current twice weekly flights to Palma operated on behalf of TUI as well as Ibiza once a week which was originally scheduled.

SOU has a huge catchment area and largely a wealthy one and the airport and airlines need to be more proactive in promoting flights from the airport, the amount of people that I chat to are unaware of what is on offer and even Vueling didn't last long on BCN to SOU a route that surely should have succeeded but it didn't purely because hardly no one other than aviation enthusiasts knew it existed and therefore loads were light but theoretically the route should have been a success and could have culminated in Vueling expanding at SOU in a similar way to how they have done at CWL.

There was talk on these forums a few weeks ago regarding EasyJet starting 4 x weekly flights from Palma in summer 2019, since nothing has materialised I should imagine that we can take that rumour with a large pinch of salt but it would be absolutely great for the airport if it eventually happened.

One of the reasons why Vueling has been the success it has been at CWL is because the airport proactively advertised them and kept advertising them. They now operate 4 routes which is only second to Gatwick and 17 weekly flights but if the airport hadn't proactively advertised them in the beginning then they may have left just like at SOU.

[stewyb]

Good post but if I can just point out one error!

Volotea has only ever served one destination within the UK on a scheduled basis and that was only SOU, the airlines flights to SEN have always been chartered flights operating on behalf of TUI as they do with their current SOU flights to Ibiza and Palma.

Volotea previously operated twice weekly scheduled flights from SOU to Palma and once weekly to Ibiza along with the current twice weekly flights to Palma operated on behalf of TUI as well as Ibiza once a week which was originally scheduled.

SOU has a huge catchment area and largely a wealthy one and the airport and airlines need to be more proactive in promoting flights from the airport, the amount of people that I chat to are unaware of what is on offer and even Vueling didn't last long on BCN to SOU a route that surely should have succeeded but it didn't purely because hardly no one other than aviation enthusiasts knew it existed and therefore loads were light but theoretically the route should have been a success and could have culminated in Vueling expanding at SOU in a similar way to how they have done at CWL.

There was talk on these forums a few weeks ago regarding EasyJet starting 4 x weekly flights from Palma in summer 2019, since nothing has materialised I should imagine that we can take that rumour with a large pinch of salt but it would be absolutely great for the airport if it eventually happened.

EZY don't release Summer 19 until October and new routes not announced until December!

[rog747]

thanks Canberra for the Volotea info and the corrections -

well SOU and Lolo has a great opportunity but if they screw it up then it will not happen

many of the new routes announced for next summer such as Bari Tivat Kalamata Salonika Bourgas and Split are highly specialist niche routes and frankly who from SOU 'en masse' is going to book those seat-only unless offered with a package (think Citalia Sunvil Balkan Holidays etc etc)

almeria and murcia - they are both not that far from each other, so why fly to both in the first year of ops?
I don't get it...

As for Pristina - well Germania had been running that one from LGW for some years to Kosovo but has now dropped it from UK
Kosovo from SOU? not sure of the logic in that one - any ideas???

EFL CFU and KGS - all mass market package destinations - but seat only to all 3? they really need to do some marketing as I said in my OP.


EZY for Palma next summer is already on everyone's radar it seems, and of course EZY regulars will get email updates on all new services

[canberra97]

EZY don't release Summer 19 until October and new routes not announced until December!

That may well be the case but EasyJet have already announced some new routes for 2019 but if they do eventually add Palma from SOU with a based aircraft from Palma or a W pattern from another base it may we'll be down to scheduling and fleet utilisation before EasyJet can confirm the ''rumours''!

I would like to know where this so called rumour actually originated from as I've read nothing on the internet other than what's been mentioned on these forums but none the less I hope that it does come to fruition.

[stewyb]

That may well be the case but EasyJet have already announced some new routes for 2019 but if they do eventually add Palma from SOU with a based aircraft from Palma or a W pattern from another base it may we'll be down to scheduling and fleet utilisation before EasyJet can confirm the ''rumours''!

I would like to know where this so called rumour actually originated from as I've read nothing on the internet other than what's been mentioned on these forums but none the less I hope that it does come to fruition.

From within the airport!

[Dropoffcharge]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but seems last nights inbound Skiathos was delayed and diverted into BOH??....Could be the first of many I feel.

[LAX2000]

It did, which results in a delay to this mornings Malaga flight. It maybe the first time this flight has diverted however it isn't that rare an occurence to see a Flybe flight divert because of the tight curfew.

Likely to cause more issues next year with Flylolo having 10pm departures scheduled.

[FrequentlyFlying]

The realities of trying to get anyone to operate Southampton as LCC base - they simply can’t risk diversions to their next day schedules - at least if it’s a W pattern they are well out before the lights go out!

[Flitefone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but seems last nights inbound Skiathos was delayed and diverted into BOH??....Could be the first of many I feel.

Flybe SOU night curfew diversions into BOH are not that unusual, 2 this week. Added to the high temperature re-routes, again several Eastern E145 recently I believe.

FF

[RW20]

Flitefone
What is difficult to understand is how come Southampton can't stay open later?,the airport has many more passenger flights then BOH.
BOH has a skeleton staff able to handle a late E195 at midnight or later?
This situation cannot continue at SOU if they wish to host any other carrier to the Sun,even Flylolo will fall short with SOU restrictions. The airport owners and management need to address the opening times urgently,but given there track record with little airside investment,don't expect any changes soon!

​​​​​

[SotonFlightpath]

Unfortunately, the airport has a legally binding contract with Eastleigh borough council which was part of the agreement signed in 1990 to enable the airport redevelopment in the early 90s. This imposes extremely strict limits on activities during ‘night hours’, these being defined as 23.00 - to 06.30, and 07.30 on Sundays. The airport can, on exceptional occasions, accept flights later than this, for example emergency medical flights etc.

SOU is situated in an extremely urban residential area, Southampton being the third most densely populated city in the UK, with only London and nearby Portsmouth having a greater density of population.So, as I have said previously, SOU is far more like LCY in its location, and it’s operations cannot be easily compared to any other UK regional airport.

[canberra97]

From within the airport!

When you say ''From within the airport'' can you be a bit more specific?

Surely the rumour didn't come from the Airports Management Team as it would be ridiculous for them to state something like that unless they have been informed by EasyJet themselves!

So from within the airport could mean anyone, the aircraft cleaners, security, ramp agents, check in staff, Costa staff or the over enthusiastic plane spotters on the top deck of the Multi Storie car park, the list goes on but your statement regarding ''From within the airport'' is very vague.

[shamrock7seal]

BOH has full staffing at that time of night due the two based 2 737-800's (Ryanair & TUI) returning to night-stop.

[rog747]

did a bit of sleuthing and popped in to a large branch of the biggest independent travel agents in Bournemouth (and Dorset) yesterday to inquire about the SOU-JSI flights...
sadly no one knew about them (5 staff in there) and when she went online on her vast booking engine systems to try to book it offered her via AMS with KL and HV...

I kept schtum, we found Lolo after abit of faffing and she said she could book it - but only as a 'package' ie with accomm transfers or car hire

she said had she known about these flights then their Company with dozens of local branches in Dorset and Wilts and Hants would have put out a flyer memo to all its staff - she said she could have sold loads of packages had she known about them...

so unless FlyLolo start to be proactive on selling these flights and make them known amongst the locals and the local industry then sorry but they will not succeed IMO.

[Dropoffcharge]

Currently not many positives for SOU it seems then, obviously still the lack of airside investment being the major one, now poor/non existent route advertising, it's almost as though they want things to fail and for the airport to remain stagnant.

[Rivet Joint]

Again, avoiding going over the same ground, it just about sums up the nous of the people in charge at SOU that they ever entertained the Looloo sham. Did they learn nothing from Powdair? If a fake airline flying to the likes of Skopje once a week is more appropriate to them then finding another operator for the Munich route (which by all accounts was growing and growing - 40k a year?/not to mention subsidised) then we might as well close this thread. Charter airlines will never work from SOU, forget it.

Another pertinent point, David Brent has now left the building, but have we heard a single peep out of his replacement? Imagine being middle management somewhere for many years, all the while dreaming of your chance to be the one calling the shots, would you not at least make a statement on your first day in the hot seat via a press release? Maybe it is early days, but surely anyone with a bit of drive (or even a pulse) would want to make a difference? There was a time when SOU was the model for Southend to follow, how quickly the roles have reversed.

[RW20]

Dropoffcharge
it's true over recent years poor investment and lack luster management has resulted in a slow decline of Southampton,this can only accelerate with the present environment.
Unless there is radical change then expect further bad news on routes,passengers and customer satisfaction.

[AirportPlanner1]

it just about sums up the nous of the people in charge at SOU that they ever entertained the Looloo sham. Did they learn nothing from Powdair? If a fake airline flying to the likes of Skopje once a week is more appropriate to them then finding another operator for the Munich route.

Apples and pears. It sounds like you’re being disparaging about the destinations perhaps because you’re not familiar with them (Skopje isn’t one of them, but regardless it’s actually fairly pleasant for a day or two). Most of the routes eg Tivat, Kalamata, Bari are quite high
end holiday locations appealing to a more wealthy demographic, exactly the sort of clientele the airport should be targeting.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Also, decline? Did the airport not just recently see record passenger numbers and welcome KLM and easyJet?
Yes, Flybe are still the biggest operator and yes, they are in retrenchment mode at the moment, but on the whole SOU seems to be making progress, albeit a lot slower than some folk on here would like.
It's actually a fairly successful small regional airport, not that you'd ever know it from this thread.

[shamrock7seal]

AirportPlanner1 - if the destinations are 'high end' as you say, why on earth would they opt to fly with 'Flylolo' ? Even Ryanair would likely be a step up.

[AirportPlanner1]

AirportPlanner1 - if the destinations are 'high end' as you say, why on earth would they opt to fly with 'Flylolo' ? Even Ryanair would likely be a step up.

As far as I understand Lolo are a specialist charter operator rather than a charge for handluggage and flog scratchcards outfit. Although the wealthy do fly on Ryanair and the like, unless you want a lengthy trip from Heathrow via Milan or Athens often LCCs are the only practical option especially from the regions. Until such time as BA or even Ryanair heaven forbid pitch up on the south coast with multiple frequencies to Tivat or Skiathos I would suggest Lolo could be quite attractive.

[rog747]

As far as I understand Lolo are a specialist charter operator rather than a charge for handluggage and flog scratchcards outfit. Although the wealthy do fly on Ryanair and the like, unless you want a lengthy trip from Heathrow via Milan or Athens often LCCs are the only practical option especially from the regions. Until such time as BA or even Ryanair heaven forbid pitch up on the south coast with multiple frequencies to Tivat or Skiathos I would suggest Lolo could be quite attractive.









I have tried to explained this before but to recap-
at present Lolo flights is, and has been a seat broker (think Viking Avro or Goldcrest here on a small scale) and travel agent selling its own allocation and/or having its own series of high season charter flights to the Canaries from MAN and LGW (using air europa) and now JSI from SOU (using flybe)
they have an ATOL (or use someones)
they have good reviews in the main for the product they sell

However, now they are branching out it seems, certainly from SOU, with their plans for many new and quite exotic destinations ex SOU for S19 to be operated by a 3rd party airline dedicated for them (think Palmair here) using the AOC of that airline - so far that airline and a/c type remains TBC, despite various rumours of using a Fokker 70/100 from Tus air. (I assume basing the a/c at SOU for the S19>?)

Here in lies the obstacles faced with alternatives if no airline can be found - there is simply very little availability of suitable smaller niche airlines and aircraft that have right capacity and range operating out of SOU to make their S19 programme work.

there are no UK operators that have the type of aircraft needed for these missions but with the possible exception of Flybe and BA city flyer (EMB jets) but I gather they have no capacity left to avail their use for this large programme Lolo have planned - BACF only fly their own charters at weekends anyway, a very big programme - the rest of the week they are well used from LCY

A320/737 is too big (rules out Titan, although they have a 318 in exec config for now) also rules out small planet and enter air whose a/c are all too big - although do SP still have their 733's? but they were old and clapped out - (ASL france has 737-700) both still too big with 148 seats
Germania has dipped into the UK market before - no idea why they quit, pax liked them and they were reliable, too high costs? - they had UK based a/c and crews for a few years both summer and winter.
their 737's and A319's 148/154 pax - again too big for Lolo though

W flying patterns cannot work especially with foreign operators into SOU due to crewing issues over the 4 sector days - any crews positioning in and hotac'ing would likely be operationally hard and add prohibitive costs.

thinking Volotea here, who could fly a W, say Verona-JSI-SOU-JSI-Verona - but crewing that would be a nightmare plus the associated cost and the B717's are going sooner or later (but they are the right size and have the range - just)
It could make sense to base a Volotea 717 and crews at SOU and to work for Lolo all season - I wonder if that path has been walked down?
Maybe there is no more space at SOU to base anymore a/c overnight....

As this area was much of my expertise during much of my long career in aviation I do find the Lolo flights saga at SOU fascinating - they do seem to have taken on a couple of 'right' folk for the job but as yet we don't see a lot happening.
dumping seats at £49 o/w and £99 return to the Greek Islands in high season is fatal imho - smacks of the 1980s when cheap seat only sales swamped the market when tour operators dumped seats they couldn't sell (long before Lo-co's were born)

I await with interest the next news

[Nakata77]

Why is the A320 too big? I thought Small Planet operated a 321 from SOU in the Winter to Finland...

[renort]

Why is the A320 too big? I thought Small Planet operated a 321 from SOU in the Winter to Finland...

Likely was a daytrip = no baggage
Santa flight = high number of kids
Winter = low temps

It probably still went with some sort payload restriction, but as a one-off, the tour operator was probably happy with the risk, and could charge a suitable premium for a single flight.
You need to discount all of the above factors for a sustainable Summer series.

[The Nutts Mutts]

He could also have meant too big as in it's a lot of seats to shift for a small niche start-up. They're struggling to fill 97 seats on an E195 this summer so an A321 would be a huge step up.

[globetrotter79]

New SOU Managing Director being quoted in an Anna Aero newsletter seemingly making fairly clear that any additional EasyJet activity at SOU looks pretty unlikely for the time being: "In terms of additional routes, the potential’s always there. At the moment we’re focusing on them coming back for the winter season with Geneva"

[Rivet Joint]

New SOU Managing Director being quoted in an Anna Aero newsletter seemingly making fairly clear that any additional EasyJet activity at SOU looks pretty unlikely for the time being: "In terms of additional routes, the potential’s always there. At the moment we’re focusing on them coming back for the winter season with Geneva"

f**k me! He really is a carbon copy of the goon who has just left! “At the moment we’re [JUST] focusing on them coming back for the winter season with Geneva”. Wow.....just wow. That kind of drive (or lack thereof) is mind blowing. Jesus Christ, if we all just sat on our hands and hoped things continued as they were we would still be living in caves!

That’s the final nail in the coffin for me, David Brent leaving was a golden opportunity to bring someone in to drive the airport forward. SOU is now stuck with a lacklustre owner, a lacklustre MD (who will probably hang around for a decade like the last bad smell) and a lucklustre airline. Game over, close this thread.

[RW20]

River joint
It beggers belief that SOU continues in the low key, uneventful
Vein ,what hope is there of any progress in its development.
Years of missed opportunities,lack of development,poor management,
is going to hit the airport hard very soon!
Bournemouth will take full advantage of the London maxed out capacity
2019 will see things literally take off for Bournemouth!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Just out of interest RJ, what were you actually expecting him to say? I doubt he's going to come out and provide a journalist with a blow-by-blow account of commercial negotiations in progress.
As far as I remember the EZY route came completely out of the blue when it was announced (and the others too), so they seem to keep their cards close to their chest.
He mentioned airport expansion and acknowledged the lack of progress with the previous masterplan, so it sounds like they've got something in the pipeline, at least it does to me anyway.

[Dropoffcharge]

​​​​If Jet2 do end up opening a base at BOH next summer, and RCA dangle a juicy carrot under the nose of BE, that thing in the pipeline could well be a housing estate!!!

[gkmeech]

Why is the A320 too big? I thought Small Planet operated a 321 from SOU in the Winter to Finland...

The A320 is not too big. Many summers ago I flew on Iberworld 320 to PMI. This operated for a couple of years, no problems.

[shamrock7seal]

I know from a pretty good source that easyJet Switzerland (not easyJet) approached SOU and basically told them they were coming in. No negotiation at all. It was all operational in nature.

I think emotions are running too high here though. I am a fan of BOH but I do see the potential at SOU to be complimentary to whatever LCC stuff goes on at BOH. Between SOU and BOH they should together be running at similar levels to BRS (8m pax per annum). SOU will struggle a little with LHR 3rd runway, so it's imperative that they start to get traction now.

[canberra97]

The A320 is not too big. Many summers ago I flew on Iberworld 320 to PMI. This operated for a couple of years, no problems.

I don't think that you have taken the comment regarding the A320 being to big for Southampton seriously, it was in reference to LoLo and it's aspirations for SOU going from a E195 to a A320 is quite an overkill considering that they can't fill the current aircraft.

Of course SOU can handle a A320 we are all aware of that and the airport has seen many, you are aware that Easyjet were using them on the GVA route over the winter plus other than the Iberworld A320 that you have mentioned the airport has also in the past seen regular flights with other operators using the A320 including Spanair and BH Air plus the odd diversions and on some of the Lapland charters but you have to take in the fact that day trips to see Santa are going to be a lot lighter than a fully loaded flight to the Med which does hinder the loads ex SOU for an A320 especially with the heat and the short runway but is it too big for the airport of course not but it has it's limitations but a lot less so than a B738 for example.

I was hoping that some of the EasyJet A319's would be kept within the fleet possibly to open up new routes or bases but they all seem to be leaving the fleet over the next couple of years as the incoming NEOs replaces them with a large number of the A319's destined for United.

[stewyb]

CAA stats for July show an 8% drop on same period last year with big reductions on regional France destinations and PMI down 35% :eek:. Clearly capacity exists for PMI in the future and hence I guess the rumours surrounding EZY for S19!!

[MARKEYD]

Looking at the Skiathos flight for July the figures don't make for good reading

439 passengers used the service on a Flybe 195 aircraft capped at 97 passengers
The first flight went out full according to the press launch of 97 passengers and obviously returned full , leaving 245 passengers for 7 flights ( out and back ) making a total of approximately 35 passengers per flight

Not sure if Lolo flights are concerned or not ?

[stewyb]

Looking at the Skiathos flight for July the figures don't make for good reading

439 passengers used the service on a Flybe 195 aircraft capped at 97 passengers
The first flight went out full according to the press launch of 97 passengers and obviously returned full , leaving 245 passengers for 7 flights ( out and back ) making a total of approximately 35 passengers per flight

Not sure if Lolo flights are concerned or not ?


I know for sure the first 3 weeks ex SOU were loads of 80,60 & 62!

[shamrock7seal]

That means the loads ex Skaithos must’ve been even lower

[rog747]

MarkeyD
Re the JSI charters.
Hi there, why do you think the first inbound was almost full?
The first inbound flight back from JSI to SOU in July, I would imagine it would be almost empty -
This is known in the industry as an 'empty leg', and I gather seats were being sold one-way for £49 last minute, but I have no idea what the actual load was...

Likewise the last flight of the season out SOU to JSI in Sept or Oct will also be almost empty as there are no inbounds to sell...
Empty legs as you may know, are built into the cost of an IT charter seat over the whole season series - any sales of seats on these otherwise empty flights are usually counted as bonus cash.
Some tour operators nowadays can make good use of them as they can route their pax on Lo-co airlines by getting a cheap one way, and making another holiday package out of what was otherwise a dead seat that will not get sold.

Regards.

[MARKEYD]

Perhaps I didn't communicate that very well , it was the outbound flight on the 3 rd July that went out nearly full , the inbound flight that day had only 3 passengers on board as you rightly say

[shamrock7seal]

Perhaps I didn't communicate that very well , it was the outbound flight on the 3 rd July that went out nearly full , the inbound flight that day had only 3 passengers on board as you rightly say

If Thomas Cook, TUI or any well-known brand was to operate SOU-Skiathos i've no doubt it would be successful. The fact that Flylolo is struggling on such a route with such potential just shows you how bad the brand ''Flylolo'' is. Sorry to say - if anyone has actually heard of the brand when they get to the website they will soon be put off. It seems like a fly-by-night type of operation that could fold at any moment thus risky to part your cash with. This is how I as a customer feel when looking at their flights. I'm totally not surprised by their performance on this route but this is by no means a reflection on the Southampton market.

[stewyb]

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-to-pull-two-flybe-jets-37262067.html

Could this be the answer to FlyLolo's search for an aircraft to operate next summer?

[shamrock7seal]

option 1 Embraer 195 from Stobart with payload restrictions as current Skiathos flights demonstrate
option 2 RJ85’s from city jet - no chance given range
option is Superjets from city jet - god knows what payload issues they have

all in all not ideal

i still think either a TUI 738 or Thomas Cook A320 based at the airport would be better the only issue would be utilisation given the night curfew. Then BOH looks more attractive.

[rog747]

option 1 Embraer 195 from Stobart with payload restrictions as current Skiathos flights demonstrate
option 2 RJ85’s from city jet - no chance given range
option is Superjets from city jet - god knows what payload issues they have

all in all not ideal

i still think either a TUI 738 or Thomas Cook A320 based at the airport would be better the only issue would be utilisation given the night curfew. Then BOH looks more attractive.

Yes I too think BOH for Flylolo's new route plans would be a better option for them - However getting the right 'fit' sized aircraft for this niche operation, and having the range too for some of the further destinations is a fine balance to tune.

The 737-300/700 or A319 size at around 140 seats is still a hefty number to fill, but better that than a 189 seater 738 or 320 risk.

A 717 at around 115-120 pax is a great size, and has the range for most but it is a vanishing beast.
F70 or F100 is limited on range/payload.
Embraer 195 from Stobart? - these have seen a poor despatch reliability of late at SEN (noted on their thread and FB as two a/c often going Tech)

[Buster the Bear]

The are 4 extra E195s that could operate every weekend in the summer now that Cityflyer are increasing their fleet.

[RW20]

Flylolo is never going to be a success at SOU,the advertising and promotion is poor,there are to many restrictions on aircraft capabilities around the runway length and to cap it all the late curfew at the airport is a major constriction. BOU offers the answer,and with future increases in aircraft size per fleet, Southampton will see a steady decline in Pax due to airside limitations that frankly should have been addressed years ago!

[stewyb]

Flylolo is never going to be a success at SOU,the advertising and promotion is poor,there are to many restrictions on aircraft capabilities around the runway length and to cap it all the late curfew at the airport is a major constriction. BOU offers the answer,and with future increases in aircraft size per fleet, Southampton will see a steady decline in Pax due to airside limitations that frankly should have been addressed years ago!

Wow, this thread by certain posters has been reduced to nothing other than SOU bashing recently, the airport still delivers circa 2m per annum and offers an alternative to bucket and spades BOU. Its not perfect and i agree that more could be done to push it forward but it also offers a viable option for many business and leisure travellers alike!

[RW20]

Stewyb
I sorry you feel we are "bashing SOU",but nothing would give me more pleasure then seeing the airport progress.However this is highly unlightly with the present set up.
Indeed it's very possible the pax figures will go down not up!
SOU needs investment! Full stop.

[Planespeaking]

Stewyb
I sorry you feel we are "bashing SOU",but nothing would give me more pleasure then seeing the airport progress.However this is highly unlightly with the present set up.
Indeed it's very possible the pax figures will go down not up!
SOU needs investment! Full stop.

I don't think it's 'SOU bashing', it's more an expression of frustration by those who care about the airport at the lack of investment, and therefore possible decline. Posts like this were normal fare on the SEN thread for years, and SEN was in
a very parlous state until Stobart came along, spent about £150 million and crucially extended the runway by nearly 1000 ft.

I know Stobart leave a lot to be desired when it comes to running an airport/airline, but SEN does well in Which surveys for customer satisfaction.

SOU starts with a much higher base than SEN, so let's hope it's onward and upwards.

[RW20]

Good valid points by Planespeaking,it's simple :lack of investment=decline in services and Pax.Years have gone by with very little development, continuing in this vane will only accelerate SOU demise.I can't see any forceable change,it's a missed opportunity to give the South a viable thriving airport ,an alternative to London ,after all there's not many airports that have a railway station and motorway network on there doorstep!
imagine what BOU would be like with these facilities !!!

[SWBKCB]

,after all there's not many airports that have a railway station and motorway network on there doorstep!

and a short trunway and limited operating hours

[Buster the Bear]

Cityflyer, if I was marketing Southampton, I’d become a pain in their backside!

[shamrock7seal]

agreed - perfect fit

also - wonder if Stobart would ever want SOU in their airport portfolio?

[EI-BUD]

I hardly could see Stobart going into Southampton in any order capacity than their current Cork route in the guise of Aer Lingus...

[shamrock7seal]

I hardly could see Stobart going into Southampton in any order capacity than their current Cork route in the guise of Aer Lingus...

I mean in terms of buying and redeveloping the airport.