Southampton-2

[The Nutts Mutts]

To be fair, I doubt the high-level financial investors in these companies are worried about, or even aware of, the rants and raves of a few wingnuts here on pprune.

[MARKEYD]

That is so true a statement !!!

Some posters are going to give themselves a stroke if there not careful

Things are definitely not on track at the moment but there is a plan and I am sure it will come full circle again

Easy Jet release there schedule on Thursday for next winter , which should give an idea of what they may or may not have planned

[stewyb]

That is so true a statement !!!

Some posters are going to give themselves a stroke if there not careful

Things are definitely not on track at the moment but there is a plan and I am sure it will come full circle again

Easy Jet release there schedule on Thursday for next winter , which should give an idea of what they may or may not have planned

Can only think at this stage that it will be Geneva returning so no real indication as to their future plans!

[Sharklet_321]

The airport is advertising on twitter for a project manager for the runway extension

[The Nutts Mutts]

Can only think at this stage that it will be Geneva returning so no real indication as to their future plans!

Agreed. I’ll be quite happy if it returns regardless of the frequency... we’ve seen a few carriers leave SOU recently so I’m just hoping that easyJet will buck the trend and stick around.
In an ideal world I’d like to see the addition of a Saturday morning flight, but I’ll take whatever they’re offering at the moment!

[stewyb]

Agreed. I’ll be quite happy if it returns regardless of the frequency... we’ve seen a few carriers leave SOU recently so I’m just hoping that easyJet will buck the trend and stick around.
In an ideal world I’d like to see the addition of a Saturday morning flight, but I’ll take whatever they’re offering at the moment!


EZY should take the 2nd BOU Saturday service and move it to SOU!

[Nakata77]

Yields are higher on BOH-GVA than SOU-GVA so doubt that will happen

[The Nutts Mutts]

Looks like easyJet are returning on the GVA route next winter. Days and times appear unchanged from this season. BOH also returns with an unchanged schedule.

[Groundloop]

EZY should take the 2nd BOU Saturday service and move it to SOU!

Shifting a flight for Bourges to Southampton is quite some switch!

[stewyb]

Shifting a flight for Bourges to Southampton is quite some switch!

Just testing ya! ;)

[MARKEYD]

Ski Total and Esprit Ski have cancelled there exclusive Southampton charter to Chambery which has been operated for a few years now , sighting problems with chartering an airline

Initially it was operated by Germania and this year upgraded to a Flybe E195 on a W rotation from Birmingham

Ski Total are using an Enter air B738 from BHX for next winter but on a W pattern to BRS instead

[RW20]

More depressing news for SOU,can it get any worse?Well it certainly can if Flybe / Connect start cutting services.The 2 million pax per annum will certainly be out of reach for sometime.

[Rivet Joint]

The airport is advertising on twitter for a project manager for the runway extension

Beat me to it. Shows that the runway extension is very much going ahead. It does beg the question what the head of development does with his time considering a middle manager is being hired to head up the only bit of development for years.

[Sharklet_321]

More depressing news for SOU,can it get any worse?Well it certainly can if Flybe / Connect start cutting services.The 2 million pax per annum will certainly be out of reach for sometime.

It might get worse before it gets better. I really doubt SOU will have the runway extension open by the start of the summer season 2020. More likely to be either winter 2020 or summer 2021.

[MARKEYD]

If the extension is given the go ahead in the summer and work starts in October , would 7 months not be achievable ?

I know nothing about runway extensions but rather like the BOH extension all those years ago that was done in the winter months and like SOU would all be done within the airport perimeter
I know it was much quicker to action at BOH as there was very little traffic if any , and was done during the day

I guess as well the runway would have a restricted take off length but nothing the DHC8 could cope with ? Easy jet might be different though

[stewyb]

If the extension is given the go ahead in the summer and work starts in October , would 7 months not be achievable ?

I know nothing about runway extensions but rather like the BOH extension all those years ago that was done in the winter months and like SOU would all be done within the airport perimeter
I know it was much quicker to action at BOH as there was very little traffic if any , and was done during the day

I guess as well the runway would have a restricted take off length but nothing the DHC8 could cope with ? Easy jet might be different though


I would imagine a 6 month project would be eminently doable and all works would be carried out during non-operational hours so to keep disruption to a minimum!

[stewyb]

Any news on the lesser spotted Flylolo operator? All seems very quiet with no social media updates for near on 2 weeks!

[shamrock7seal]

Flylolo must have lost money last year considering that their flights to Skiathos were less than half full - so how is it they are still expanding this summer and expect things to be any different?

[stewyb]

Rumour has it the E75’s are being lined up to operate med routes next year. Not sure they can with current field length limitations!

[TCAS FAN]

Unless they are Fly Maybe's under powered variants, may be workable. With the runway extension in place I remain curious as to whether BEE's E175s will be able to do anything other than UK internal flights.

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;10448868]Unless they are Fly Maybe's under powered variants, may be workable. With the runway extension in place I remain curious as to whether BEE's E175s will be able to do anything other than UK internal flights

I understand that SOU's proposed runway extension is similar to SEN. SEN is now successfuly operating B738 and A320 equipment on sector lengths of almost four hours, why then is SOU not going to be able to offer the same?


I'm sure there is an operational and performance reason.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Rumour has it the E75’s are being lined up to operate med routes next year. Not sure they can with current field length limitations!

Maybe that’s the clue...

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;10448868]Unless they are Fly Maybe's under powered variants, may be workable. With the runway extension in place I remain curious as to whether BEE's E175s will be able to do anything other than UK internal flights

I understand that SOU's proposed runway extension is similar to SEN. SEN is now successfuly operating B738 and A320 equipment on sector lengths of almost four hours, why then is SOU not going to be able to offer the same?

I'm sure there is an operational and performance reason.

While the northern extension will provide some improvements to take-off weights for 20 departures, there is still (currently) the problem of obstacles in the take-off/climb area. Once the current legal process is completed, and hopefully Marhill Copse gets a haircut, we will finally get to see what is achievable.

[Planespeaking]

Thanks TCAS

[stewyb]

Not surprised in the slightest if its gone pete tong at Flylolo! Website now showing only Skopelos via Skiathos as a destination

[MARKEYD]

It certainly looks that way

Unable to bring up any dates now and prices

I really don't know what has happened here, it seems a well-respected ex-airline / holiday company director has most certainly not done his research as regarding selling popular destinations, start with Palma and go from there

All wording about SOU has been removed and they look like they are concentrating on a few add hoc charters from LGW / GLA / MAN for the Xmas period using Aer Europa

TUS air FK 70
Austrian Emb 195
Airbus A319

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=MARKEYD;10449538]It certainly looks that way

Unable to bring up any dates now and prices

I really don't know what has happened here, it seems a well-respected ex-airline / holiday company director has most certainly not done his research as regarding selling popular destinations, start with Palma and go from there

TUS air FK 70
Austrian Emb 195

Well all I can say is I'm surprised anyone is surprised, however in this age of not causing offence...I hope I'm wrong!

[The Nutts Mutts]

If indeed it has all gone south I’ve got a theory as to what happened...

In one of the documents accompanying the airport masterplan there was a graph of projected pax numbers which showed a pretty substantially jump between 2018 and 2019.
I suspect that in the early days of the masterplan project they had hoped to get the runway extension completed in winter 18/19 ready for expansion from summer 19 onwards.
For whatever reason the plans have been delayed and my money is now on the extension happening this winter coming, 19/20.
If that’s the case I wonder if Lolo were caught out by this?
They perhaps started a limited Skiathos operation to get their name out there and test the water, with plans to return the following year when the extended runway and other development work would allow them to reach new and unserved destinations with any medium-sized twin that they could find, as they would now be able to operate economically from SOU.
However when the runway extension got delayed they now had to scramble around trying to find an aircraft that was available in peak summer, able to lift a decent load off SOU’s still-unsuitable runway, and able to reach destinations around the eastern Med with those decent loads. Hence the confusion and conflicting reports we’ve heard about the aircraft- there isn’t one out there that can satisfactorily do the job out of SOU as it stands. As people have alluded to before, if these routes were feasible out of SOU at the moment they’d have been tried already.
They’ve also seemed a lot less professional than may be desired, and no doubt have been responsible for a lot of the current mess, but I can’t help but wonder if this was a decent idea but unlucky, unfortunately timed, and not well-executed.

[Planespeaking]

If indeed it has all gone south I’ve got a theory as to what happened...

In one of the documents accompanying the airport masterplan there was a graph of projected pax numbers which showed a pretty substantially jump between 2018 and 2019.
I suspect that in the early days of the masterplan project they had hoped to get the runway extension completed in winter 18/19 ready for expansion from summer 19 onwards.
For whatever reason the plans have been delayed and my money is now on the extension happening this winter coming, 19/20.
If that’s the case I wonder if Lolo were caught out by this?
They perhaps started a limited Skiathos operation to get their name out there and test the water, with plans to return the following year when the extended runway and other development work would allow them to reach new and unserved destinations with any medium-sized twin that they could find, as they would now be able to operate economically from SOU.
However when the runway extension got delayed they now had to scramble around trying to find an aircraft that was available in peak summer, able to lift a decent load off SOU’s still-unsuitable runway, and able to reach destinations around the eastern Med with those decent loads. Hence the confusion and conflicting reports we’ve heard about the aircraft- there isn’t one out there that can satisfactorily do the job out of SOU as it stands. As people have alluded to before, if these routes were feasible out of SOU at the moment they’d have been tried already.
They’ve also seemed a lot less professional than may be desired, and no doubt have been responsible for a lot of the current mess, but I can’t help but wonder if this was a decent idea but unlucky, unfortunately timed, and not well-executed.

The problem with a runway extension is that it will be fought tooth and nail by the local antis.

At SEN we had a number of high court judicial reviews before the case against a longer runway was thrown out. But that caused months of delays and legal costs.

I wish SOU well but like anything else in our country any infrastructure changes lifts the carpet and all sorts things crawl out.

[rog747]

If Flylolo has now def canx their remaining SOU S19 program bar the JSI flight (to be op again by Flybe?) then it is indeed a great blow to SOU.

Their website today is slow and clunky and the JSI dates have also gone off except 2 one-off dates in Aug and Sep.


I think we all know that their problem to source a suitable airline and aircraft type to enable these ops from SOU was a formidable task, and was known at least 6 months ago , given the constraints of operating from SOU to 3-4 hour length destinations with around 100 seats...

Now couple that with both the latest charter airline failures, and the 737 MAX debacle I would think that there are simply no aircraft available.

Edit
Had Flybe been in better shape then they perhaps could have had a based EMB jet at SOU for charter OPs such as what Flylolo wanted.
(like BACF do all weekend at various UK airports all summer long with a big Med IT programme)

[SWBKCB]

They’ve also seemed a lot less professional than may be desired, and no doubt have been responsible for a lot of the current mess, but I can’t help but wonder if this was a decent idea but unlucky, unfortunately timed, and not well-executed.

Basing your business plans on a runway extension not yet announced, much less approved seems on the outer edges of "brave"...

The problem with a runway extension is that it will be fought tooth and nail by the local antis.

It wouldn't surprise you, but is there any evidence of opposition locally? Maybe we need to wait until the application goes in formally, but the roadshows didn't seem to attract much opposition.

[zantopst]

'It wouldn't surprise you, but is there any evidence of opposition locally? Maybe we need to wait until the application goes in formally, but the roadshows didn't seem to attract much opposition'

Well the Scoping planning submission with Eastleigh Borough Council has over 40 objections submitted on the applications website.

https://planning.eastleigh.gov.uk/s/papplication/a1M1v000004ImIMEA0/v1884594

[stewyb]

'It wouldn't surprise you, but is there any evidence of opposition locally? Maybe we need to wait until the application goes in formally, but the roadshows didn't seem to attract much opposition'

Well the Scoping planning submission with Eastleigh Borough Council has over 40 objections submitted on the applications website.

https://planning.eastleigh.gov.uk/s/papplication/a1M1v000004ImIMEA0/v1884594

ridiculously some of these objections have come from home owners in Dorset!🤔

[DC3 Dave]

The problem with a runway extension is that it will be fought tooth and nail by the local antis.

At SEN we had a number of high court judicial reviews before the case against a longer runway was thrown out. But that caused months of delays and legal costs.

I wish SOU well but like anything else in our country any infrastructure changes lifts the carpet and all sorts things crawl out.

​​​​​​Don't be dismayed. The original plan at SEN involved moving a 900 year old church and extending the runway to 2000m. The later application leaving the church in place; a shorter extension and moving a road was submitted in October 2009 and given final approval by the communites secretary the following March. There were 2 applications for judicial review - both denied.

[SotonFlightpath]

I really don’t know why so many people on the forum are so keen to see SOU develop into just another regional airport. As I have mentioned before, SOU is very, very different from most other regionals, and is located in a very geographically-challenging location. It is a largely urban/suburban area, hemmed-in by industrial sites, high density housing, a railway works which is growing rather than declining, a railway depot, a station and a motorway. It is actually within the town of Eastleigh, and well within the contiguous built-up Southampton/Solent area. Nearby Portsmouth is the most densely-populated built-up area in the UK – even greater than central London, and Southampton just to the south of the airport is the third most densely-populated area. In such a location, any expansion is likely to be unpopular.

The South Hampshire Metropolitan area has a combined population of over 1.5 million, It is the most populated part of south east England, excluding London, making it the most densely populated region in the UK. As such, I have always considered SOU as a regional version of LCY. Not withstanding the uncertainty with Flyby/Connect, SOU’s essential role will always be frequent, domestic and short haul European traffic primarily for the business market – operated by small aircraft. These kind of routes have always been reasonably profitable, as they can operate with fuel/cost-efficient turboprops and a relatively high fare can be charged for the convenience of flying from a local airport. Indeed, the business community has always appreciated the quick ‘breeze-through’ approach to flying from SOU because it is a small airport!

There will always be a market for a limited number of sun routes/ski routes etc., and the importance of the Channel Island business can never be underestimated. But, even if the runway extension happens, I firmly believe that the requirements for the low-cost/holiday/package business can be far better served at Bournemouth.

[Sharklet_321]

A very considered post SotonFlightpath; I agree there are currently similarities between SOU and LCY.

I would love to see a small operation from BA Cityflyer using their ERJ190's or 170's to Europe and also provide some competition on domestics

[SotonFlightpath]

A very considered post SotonFlightpath; I agree there are currently similarities between SOU and LCY.

I would love to see a small operation from BA Cityflyer using their ERJ190's or 170's to Europe and also provide some competition on domestics

Thanks Sharklet 321, I totally agree a small operation by BA Cityflyer - a mix of a few 'business capitals' plus some sun/leisure routes at the weekend would be ideal, and this is exactly the sort of business that SOU should be trying to attract.

[Rivet Joint]

I really don’t know why so many people on the forum are so keen to see SOU develop into just another regional airport. As I have mentioned before, SOU is very, very different from most other regionals, and is located in a very geographically-challenging location. It is a largely urban/suburban area, hemmed-in by industrial sites, high density housing, a railway works which is growing rather than declining, a railway depot, a station and a motorway. It is actually within the town of Eastleigh, and well within the contiguous built-up Southampton/Solent area. Nearby Portsmouth is the most densely-populated built-up area in the UK – even greater than central London, and Southampton just to the south of the airport is the third most densely-populated area. In such a location, any expansion is likely to be unpopular.

The South Hampshire Metropolitan area has a combined population of over 1.5 million, It is the most populated part of south east England, excluding London, making it the most densely populated region in the UK. As such, I have always considered SOU as a regional version of LCY. Not withstanding the uncertainty with Flyby/Connect, SOU’s essential role will always be frequent, domestic and short haul European traffic primarily for the business market – operated by small aircraft. These kind of routes have always been reasonably profitable, as they can operate with fuel/cost-efficient turboprops and a relatively high fare can be charged for the convenience of flying from a local airport. Indeed, the business community has always appreciated the quick ‘breeze-through’ approach to flying from SOU because it is a small airport!

There will always be a market for a limited number of sun routes/ski routes etc., and the importance of the Channel Island business can never be underestimated. But, even if the runway extension happens, I firmly believe that the requirements for the low-cost/holiday/package business can be far better served at Bournemouth.

not sure what point you’re trying to make? Low cost operators spring up all over the world and can turn even the sleepiest place into a low cost base. Southampton is the biggest city South of London and has unrivalled public transport links to London (Bournemouth is neither of these). Southend has attracted both Ryanair and EasyJet off the back of investment, and Southampton will too if they get on with it. Let’s not forget Southampton is also the biggest turn around cruise port in Europe (think Bournemouth has a few fishing boats?). If we are arguing over which airport is ripe for a change of use then Bournemouth is definitely in need of some more retirement homes.

[stewyb]

I really don’t know why so many people on the forum are so keen to see SOU develop into just another regional airport. As I have mentioned before, SOU is very, very different from most other regionals, and is located in a very geographically-challenging location. It is a largely urban/suburban area, hemmed-in by industrial sites, high density housing, a railway works which is growing rather than declining, a railway depot, a station and a motorway. It is actually within the town of Eastleigh, and well within the contiguous built-up Southampton/Solent area. Nearby Portsmouth is the most densely-populated built-up area in the UK – even greater than central London, and Southampton just to the south of the airport is the third most densely-populated area. In such a location, any expansion is likely to be unpopular.

The South Hampshire Metropolitan area has a combined population of over 1.5 million, It is the most populated part of south east England, excluding London, making it the most densely populated region in the UK. As such, I have always considered SOU as a regional version of LCY. Not withstanding the uncertainty with Flyby/Connect, SOU’s essential role will always be frequent, domestic and short haul European traffic primarily for the business market – operated by small aircraft. These kind of routes have always been reasonably profitable, as they can operate with fuel/cost-efficient turboprops and a relatively high fare can be charged for the convenience of flying from a local airport. Indeed, the business community has always appreciated the quick ‘breeze-through’ approach to flying from SOU because it is a small airport!

There will always be a market for a limited number of sun routes/ski routes etc., and the importance of the Channel Island business can never be underestimated. But, even if the runway extension happens, I firmly believe that the requirements for the low-cost/holiday/package business can be far better served at Bournemouth.

You do realise your facts and figures around conurbation size are exactly the reason for a low cost base to utilise SOU. The potential footfall is huge, add that to excellent transport links and you have a viable product to serve a selection of european financial districts and capital cities with a few sun routes added in. London’s airports are at bursting point with over capacity, hence SOU want to get in on the act asap and leave BOH to pick up the bucket and spade brigade.

[Planespeaking]

You do realise your facts and figures around conurbation size are exactly the reason for a low cost base to utilise SOU. The potential footfall is huge, add that to excellent transport links and you have a viable product to serve a selection of european financial districts and capital cities with a few sun routes added in. London’s airports are at bursting point with over capacity, hence SOU want to get in on the act asap and leave BOH to pick up the bucket and spade brigade.

Following the logic of your argument why is it that a number of carriers have ceased operating or reduced their services from SOU in the last year?

[The Nutts Mutts]

I think both sides in the debate over the last few comments have it right in their own ways.
Yes, the Southampton / Bournemouth / Winchester / Salisbury / Basingstoke / Portsmouth / Chichester area has a large catchment area and an airport smack bang in the middle of that area would no doubt be in a good position to attract passengers.
However, as has been rightly pointed out above, the airport in that exact position has been on a bit of a downward curve recently, which begs the question, if the location is so great, why is it not doing better?
My answer to that would be that the section of the market that it serves (UK domestic and short haul European turboprops) is in decline and has been for a while. So the airport feels that decline acutely as that’s most of its traffic.
It can’t do medium or long haul due to its runway, and most people in the area are accustomed to immediately looking to Heathrow or Gatwick for their flights and holidays.
What it needs to do is move up to the next level of the market, namely Loco twins able to fly to holiday destinations. Once it can do that there’s a large market of regular travellers waiting for it who currently fly from elsewhere due to the extremely limited offering SOU currently has.
Business travellers will no doubt stay with their expenses-paid taxis to Heathrow or business parking there, and continue to fly BA for the benefit of their Executive Club accounts, so there’s no point chasing them.
Sun routes are where SOU’s future lies I feel, there’s a huge demand in the local area that currently goes mostly unserved from local airports.
I think the new owners recognise this hence the masterplan.

[Dropoffcharge]

I think the new owners recognise this hence the masterplan.

Does SOU now have new owners?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Does SOU now have new owners?

Well I say new, but AGS took over a couple of years ago. They’re looking to invest, whereas not much seemed to happen under BAA ownership.

[Dropoffcharge]

Well I say new, but AGS took over a couple of years ago, maybe three.

So not really new at all then, just more exaggerations about SOU's expansion.

[The Nutts Mutts]

I apologise if the way I wrote it offended you. It wasn’t meant to be an exaggeration, the expansion plans were first announced shortly after they took over.

[Rivet Joint]

You do realise your facts and figures around conurbation size are exactly the reason for a low cost base to utilise SOU. The potential footfall is huge, add that to excellent transport links and you have a viable product to serve a selection of european financial districts and capital cities with a few sun routes added in. London’s airports are at bursting point with over capacity, hence SOU want to get in on the act asap and leave BOH to pick up the bucket and spade brigade.


Exactly, there is no debate to be had here. Southend is proof that low cost operators can utilise a short runway. There are a lot of posts on here that completely miss the mark (not helped by trolls from the BOH thread). Easy Jet and Ryanair have a constant stream of new metal arriving and the London airports are not likely to expand anytime soon. Jet2 are also looking for new bases. Exciting times ahead.

[Rivet Joint]

Following the logic of your argument why is it that a number of carriers have ceased operating or reduced their services from SOU in the last year?

Surely it is pretty self-explanatory?

BMI: No more;

KLM: AMS is slot restricted and they had to drop routes based on feed to their international routes. No reflection on SOU as the AMS route saw circa 200k passengers last year;

Volotea: SOU was its only UK base so they are hardly known in the UK, they are also making the strange decision to re-fleet with the A319. Again no reflection on SOU;

Flylooloo: Did it ever even exist? No comment is needed surely;

Flybe: Has been run into the ground by a very poor CEO and a previous decision to replace their USP with some badly financed bottle rocket powered jets.

Stobart: Probably the strangest of the lot but they have returned their two ATR-500s and have not replaced them. Perhaps they had to drop routes accordingly.

SOU's likely future is a slimmed down Flybe operating domestic routes and the odd French destination, and a low cost operator flying to the usual places on the continent.

[SWBKCB]

KLM: AMS is slot restricted and they had to drop routes based on feed to their international routes. No reflection on SOU as the AMS route saw circa 200k passengers last year;

KLM has many other UK destinations, but only SOU has been dropped?

Volotea: SOU was its only UK base so they are hardly known in the UK, they are also making the strange decision to re-fleet with the A319. Again no reflection on SOU;

VOE still have over a dozen B.717's in service, so they can't have been making bucket loads of money or they would have found a way. BTW, SOU wasn't a base and why is chosing the A319 strange rather than operating the almost unique B.717?

As has been discussed many times, airlines come and go at SOU and don't seem to stick - this must be a concern.

[Sharklet_321]

Vueling also tried Southampton to Barcelona
Air Berlin tried Southampton to Paderborn

[shamrock7seal]

RivetJoint i'm interested to know, how many times a year do you fly and from which airports and for what purposes? (as long as you don't mind sharing)

[RW20]

The airport seems to be bumping along at the bottom at the moment,lots of departing airlines ,but nothing new,unless something dramatic happens,then expect more of this.
The proposed runway works are way off,even if they are approved,it's to little to late,but that's SOU for you!

[RW20]

The airport is in decline!,many departed airlines,no new!
The proposed runway extension even if approved is not going to change the fact that SOU have missed the boat,it should have happened in 2005 Master plan!

[DC3 Dave]

Nil desperandum. Apologies for SEN invading your airspace again. But less than 10 years ago a once proud airport had but one departure per week to Jersey. Now there's around 30 a day with more to come.

Don't ask me exactly how that's been achieved. But it does require a vision, a commitment that means there's no going back and a willingness to speculate to accumulate that blurs the boundaries between investment and gambling.

[rog747]

Flylolo is dead
no more
an ex programme

all flights canned from SOU S19 I read today- including the JSI - all canx

no plane no airline - never was one, was there

[Planespeaking]

Flylolo is dead
no more
an ex programme

all flights canned from SOU S19 I read today- including the JSI - all canx

no plane no airline - never was one, was there
Well I'm very sorry but to quote a comedy programme many years ago "Specialist subject..'The bleedin' obvious!!.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Has the whole company gone under or have they just dropped the SOU programme?

[rog747]

have they just dropped the SOU programme?
Yes in its entirety old chap

[caaardiff]

Flylolo is dead
no more
an ex programme

all flights canned from SOU S19 I read today- including the JSI - all canx

no plane no airline - never was one, was there
The apparent CEO of this company was vocal in posts on LinkedIn. The quality of his posts were somewhat lacking professionalism and he can be associated with the joker that is Jason Unsworth from Atmosphere whatever they are this week as they were often vocal on the same topics.

[adfly]

I did find it very odd that you had two well experienced industry professionals involved with Flylolo yet much of their online presence seemed rather amateur.

[RW20]

Flylolo have cancelled all operations from SOU,to say it is a shambles would be an understatement!.What's left for SOU?,frankly very little!.The airport continues to bump along the bottom,where as down the road at BOU things continue to expand!. Perhaps the owners and management has something to do about it?

[Soton27]

So boring reading posts saying it’s the end of SOU, so what some irrelevant company who no one really knows has failed - yes it’s sad for holidaymakers who have holidays ruined but it won’t lead to the closure of the airport.

The runway extension should happen, and the airport needs to focus on getting someone like EasyJet to set up base. Everyone always goes on about the airport not having enough custom but it’s the heart of the UKs eight largest urban area and can sustain established routes with high frequencies that other comparable airports including CWL, EXT and BOH can only dream of.

[Chris_747]

Has the whole company gone under or have they just dropped the SOU programme?

Doesn't look to have gone under, they're still offering charters from Manchester and Gatwick for Christmas, but their SOU ops have been canned, even though they're still advertising it on their home page.

I did find it very odd that you had two well experienced industry professionals involved with Flylolo yet much of their online presence seemed rather amateur.

From what I know, the ex TUI guy that the trade press reported had joined them last year left a few months ago, make of that what you will.

[southside bobby]

No fears...2020 beckons.

The CEO chappie blames "owners of an aircraft who pulled out over uncertainty surrounding Brexit"

The CEO "could not disclose who the owner is due to a non-disclosure agreement".

Any payments will be refunded within 10 days.

Are hopefully looking to operate from SOU in 2020 now.

[TartinTon]

No fears...2020 beckons.

The CEO chappie blames "owners of an aircraft who pulled out over uncertainty surrounding Brexit"

The CEO "could not disclose who the owner is due to a non-disclosure agreement".

Any payments will be refunded within 10 days.

Are hopefully looking to operate from SOU in 2020 now.

What a load of horsesh*t. He has a legal obligation to tell the customer at the time of booking who is operating the aircraft. Given the hard sell that he's been pushing on Linked in for the last few months (clearly a marketing genius using a biz to biz site for that).
It's pretty obvious that the bookings must have been rubbish.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Just had a look at the CEO’s LinkedIn page as I haven’t been able to find the Flylolo statement about cancelling the SOU flights and thought it might be on there.
He’s sticking up for Jason Unsworth’s (of Atmosphere Airlines fame) plan to rescue Jet Airways by becoming the majority shareholder.
If he’s a serious fan of Mr Unsworth then I completely doubt his decision-making abilities and business acumen.

[southside bobby]

Find it on thebreeze.com

[awwdabaaby]

Doesn't look to have gone under, they're still offering charters from Manchester and Gatwick for Christmas, but their SOU ops have been canned, even though they're still advertising it on their home page.

The same charters that also had a Glasgow-Tenerife for the 4 new years and it operated a grand total of 0, i have a feeling Manchester and Gatwick were the same

[RW20]

What's is happening at SOU?,well frankly very little!. Airlines dissapear,frequenties diminish,and no new routes or increases. Its May and we are no further down the line on any announcements on runway extension,really could there be a more depressing situation. It's seems the airport is on a increasing decline spiral,with very little to look forward to.

[sinbad73]

What's is happening at SOU?,well frankly very little!. Airlines dissapear,frequenties diminish,and no new routes or increases. Its May and we are no further down the line on any announcements on runway extension,really could there be a more depressing situation. It's seems the airport is on a increasing decline spiral,with very little to look forward to.

Same story at ABZ and GLA and guess what? Same owners

[RW20]

Well at this rate I can't see SOU surviving long term,Good luck to BOU who seem to be on the up and up with the right management!

[Wycombe]

Well at this rate I can't see SOU surviving long term,Good luck to BOU who seem to be on the up and up with the right management!BOH (!) is on the up a bit at what it does, but the reality is it's never going to be able to offer the high-frequency routes for business that SOU does (and hopefully continues to), simply because of where it is and how badly it's connected on the ground.

[stewyb]

Some good news for the airport, BE/VS look to be closely mirroring their winter timetable from last year for 19/20 with the only exceptions being Aberdeen, Nantes & Alicante being dropped. A clear commitment from the new company for SOU!!

[Dropoffcharge]

only exceptions being Aberdeen, Nantes & Alicante being dropped.

So the restructuring of some routes begins it seems, not a huge loss. Aberdeen and Nantes probably make sense (although I don't know the actual winter loads for them??) Alicante no doubt due to the RYN presence down the road at BOH.

[The Nutts Mutts]

ABZ was an outlier anyway as it wasn’t a proper scheduled route- it seemed to be seats sold on a positioning flight which went ABZ-SOU on Friday evenings and SOU-ABZ on Sunday evenings. The aircraft operated flights from SOU over the weekend. Loads were usually around 75%

[shamrock7seal]

According to CAA stats, Alicante is Southampton's 11th busiest route in 2018 carrying almost 39,000 Flybe pax, BOH only carried 61,000 despite it being operated by Ryanair. Not much in it!

[Planespeaking]

According to CAA stats, Alicante is Southampton's 11th busiest route in 2018 carrying almost 39,000 Flybe pax, BOH only carried 61,000 despite it being operated by Ryanair. Not much in it!
Err my maths was never very good, but isn't 61,000 rather more than 39,000? Just thought I'd ask and perhaps I'm missing some vital and valid point.

[MARKEYD]

Beat me to it 61, 000 is a pretty good figure for Alicante from BOH and 39 , 000 with Flybe from SOU slightly less

There is nothing to say that Flybe / VS may well operate to ALC on the DHC. 8 later on next winter, once they have established what their core routes are going to be

Good news for SOU that the network remains intact for the winter

[darren1]

Err my maths was never very good, but isn't 61,000 rather more than 39,000? Just thought I'd ask and perhaps I'm missing some vital and valid point.

Considering the large difference in the size of planes used it’s pretty good going from Flybe.

[stewyb]

Considering the large difference in the size of planes used it’s pretty good going from Flybe.

The year round Alicante service of 39000 passengers gives a 'back of a fag packet' load factor of circa 85% (using a mix of Q400/E95), a great performance and clearly demonstrates the viability of this route in competition with RYR at BOH. Not sure whether it will be back this winter with BE's med routes being cut although any perspective operator I'm sure will have their eye on this once the runway extension is complete!

[Planespeaking]

The year round Alicante service of 39000 passengers gives a 'back of a fag packet' load factor of circa 85% (using a mix of Q400/E95), a great performance and clearly demonstrates the viability of this route in competition with RYR at BOH. Not sure whether it will be back this winter with BE's med routes being cut although any perspective operator I'm sure will have their eye on this once the runway extension is complete!
What is the latest news on the ' masterplan' and the proposed runway extension?

[stewyb]

What is the latest news on the ' masterplan' and the proposed runway extension?


As if by magic! 😉

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2019-05-07/southampton-airport-expansion-moving-forward-as-bosses-prepare-to-submit-plans/

[Planespeaking]

As if by magic! 😉

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2019-05-07/southampton-airport-expansion-moving-forward-as-bosses-prepare-to-submit-plans/
Thankyou and good luck to SOU.

[MARKEYD]

I am guessing then that if the plans are submitted in the summer, the council will sit on it for a month or so then

1 ) approve the extension and expansion of Southampton and give SOU the ok to go ahead, which could possibly mean work start in January? how long it would take i have no idea, but ready for summer 2020 ?

2 ) send it back or delay it longer while the council investigate more

[FrequentlyFlying]

My viewpoint from someone who worked in LGovt and regularly had ‘debate’ on LA(uthority) projects with planners.

unlikely to be passed without lots of additional info requests, impact studies, and public enquiry etc. It will become a political football locally too, awareness of environmental impact at a high... no Councillor on a planning committee will want to sign it off without a eye on local public opinion. it may seem a relatively contained package of works but the scale of impact is clear, an airport with jet base potential from one that currently dominated by lighter craft. It will also open a massive can of worms over curfew and impact which could be tightened if the Can is opened.

its so close to populations in Eastleigh it could stand the chance of becoming a massive hot potato that needs to go to appeal where the judgment will be looked at in exactly the same political climate.

It’s a great connected airport, I hope it gets a major LCC to European cities but, if I lived v nearby ..... I would be bending the local Councilors/Leader against and they intern would be visiting the planners almost daily.

[SWBKCB]

You wouldn't be surprised FF, but hopefully SOU have done a lot of prep work and have already got a good idea of the councils concerns and have built them into the application. Given the current news agenda, doesn't look like great timing though.

[Planespeaking]

My viewpoint from someone who worked in LGovt and regularly had ‘debate’ on LA(uthority) projects with planners.

unlikely to be passed without lots of additional info requests, impact studies, and public enquiry etc. It will become a political football locally too, awareness of environmental impact at a high... no Councillor on a planning committee will want to sign it off without a eye on local public opinion. it may seem a relatively contained package of works but the scale of impact is clear, an airport with jet base potential from one that currently dominated by lighter craft. It will also open a massive can of worms over curfew and impact which could be tightened if the Can is opened.

its so close to populations in Eastleigh it could stand the chance of becoming a massive hot potato that needs to go to appeal where the judgment will be looked at in exactly the same political climate.

It’s a great connected airport, I hope it gets a major LCC to European cities but, if I lived v nearby ..... I would be bending the local Councilors/Leader against and they intern would be visiting the planners almost daily.

SEN went through this fight over ten years ago, with judicial reviews two or three times until the High Court told the objectors to stop wasting the Court's time. Now the runway has been extended by nearly 1000' and EZ and FR are operating normally to a new £100m terminal and railway station. It depends whether the airport owner/operator has the will to fight and invest.

[FrequentlyFlying]

Most definitely IF they have the will and finances to fight. Ten years ago would have been a much easier time than now. We are talking about possibly the highest profile and awareness climate change and environmental impact has ever had. Can’t help thinking this, in this location should have been done years ago.... you can’t suddenly fly jets every few minutes literally in people’s back gardens. It’s a densely populated area and its not like the argument for Heathrow expansion, that’s already there and impact is there, the uplift and impact on immediate locals will be huge. They will also take into consideration if there are alternatives near by that impact less on community if not environment or are established which of course there is.

They literally couldn’t have picked a worse time to go for planning from that point of view.

[bad bear]

I would seriously question the wisdom of bringing bigger plane s and more often to a runway whose over run / undershoot area is a busy 6 lane motorway. Sure as eggs are eggs one day the inevitable will happen and now is the time for the planners to show foresight and say "No"

bb

[shamrock7seal]

The big difference between SEN and SOU (identical runway lengths after extension) would be the ground obstacles. Hills, trees and rail depots.... it's even listed as a hazard in the airfield guidance from NATS.

If the aircraft needs to ascend more quickly to avoid obstacles, then the aircraft cannot be heavy. Meaning any flights over 2hrs would be economically questionable.

Please don't get me wrong RivetJoint - I support the expansion as I would benefit from it too despite being a BOH 'troll'. It's just not as simple as SEN's extension.

[FrequentlyFlying]

As we discussing.... 10 years ago was the time to push expansion through... this is in bbc news today - this is the ‘climate’ any expansion planning application is going to be viewed in and more so on a local level without a Central Govt overturn at appeal which would have been a ‘business first’ decision a few years back
Climate change 'may curb growth in UK flying' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48233548

[Buster the Bear]

LBC will not like that at all!

[Sharklet_321]

Until they find an alternative propulsion system for aircraft engines the airline industry is going to be punished yet it only contributes 2% to global carbon dioxide emissions. How messed up is that.

[RW20]

Good luck to the planning application ,but realistically it's never going to happen,as stated if this was 10 years ago then maybe,but it's not and the climate has changed.
Expect major objections and eventual withdraw of the application.Where does this leave SOU?,well it certainly won't be around after another 10 years.
It makes sense to develop transport links to BOU,it has the runway,location and facilities to become a mini Gatwick!.Investment will come through. SOU had its chance many years ago,but poor management,lack of investment and oversight has silled it's fate.

[stewyb]

Good luck to the planning application ,but realistically it's never going to happen,as stated if this was 10 years ago then maybe,but it's not and the climate has changed.
Expect major objections and eventual withdraw of the application.Where does this leave SOU?,well it certainly won't be around after another 10 years.
It makes sense to develop transport links to BOU,it has the runway,location and facilities to become a mini Gatwick!.Investment will come through. SOU had its chance many years ago,but poor management,lack of investment and oversight has silled it's fate.

The resident troll returns. As ever nothing constructive to say and suggest you bore off back to the BOH thread!

[Rivet Joint]

The resident troll returns. As ever nothing constructive to say and suggest you bore off back to the BOH thread!


Well said. It is becoming very tiresome now. I suspect planning for an extra 170m of runway is a lot more attainable than planning to extend a motorway through a national park.

[Sharklet_321]

I for one want to see SOU developed to its full potential as it will benefit the entire region. If you look at the likes of BRS they are now handling 9million passengers a year. Yet between them BOH & SOU struggle to get a combined 2.8m. The population of BRS is much smaller than the SOU/PMTH and BMTH populations combined - so what the hell is going on?!

[PDXCWL45]

I for one want to see SOU developed to its full potential as it will benefit the entire region. If you look at the likes of BRS they are now handling 9million passengers a year. Yet between them BOH & SOU struggle to get a combined 2.8m. The population of BRS is much smaller than the SOU/PMTH and BMTH populations combined - so what the hell is going on?!
You can't compare Bristol and Southampton/Bournemouth as they have unique circumstances.

[uptoncol]

Hi all just had my pre bookable seat map come through from Tui today to book my seats for the Tuesday flight in August and it is a 717 again this year
Thanks Col

[MerchantVenturer]

I for one want to see SOU developed to its full potential as it will benefit the entire region. If you look at the likes of BRS they are now handling 9million passengers a year. Yet between them BOH & SOU struggle to get a combined 2.8m. The population of BRS is much smaller than the SOU/PMTH and BMTH populations combined - so what the hell is going on?!

Southampton/Portsmouth/Bournemouth combined populations should be compared wth 'Greater Bristol' which includes cities and towns such as Bath and Weston-super-Mare. Furthermore, because of its physical location at the intersetion of two major motorways (M4 and M5) and a similar rail 'cross-roads' (London, South Coast, South West, Midlands/North, South Wales) the city region is easily accessible from most parts of the country, albeit once in the city area itself the traffic can be horrendous and the airport is poorly connected.

BRS attracts significant numbers of customers from South Wales, Devon/Cornwall and parts of the Thames Valley, which was one of the considerations that Barbara Cassani mentioned in her book when her airline Go set up its second base and chose BRS. That said, around 40% of BRS's annual passenger numbers begin or end their journey in the 'Greater Bristol' area, roughly analogous to the area covered by the short-lived county of Avon.

The South West and the Bristol area in particular still 'loses' several million passenger journeys to the London airports (mainly LHR) each year.

Having said all this, I agree that the South Coast airports should be handling considerably more passengers than is currently the case, having regard to the size and make-up of the cities and towns within the Southampton/Portsmouth conurbation. They are under-performing when compared to somewhere like BRS which might be thought to be punching above its weight at a physically constrained site with poor surface connectivity.

The Eurostat concept of larger urban zones is sometimes a more realistic guide to city region population sizes than municipal populations.

[Flitefone]

Southampton/Portsmouth/Bournemouth combined populations

The Eurostat concept of larger urban zones is sometimes a more realistic guide to city region population sizes than municipal populations.

Centre for Cuties provides a very good analysis:

https://www.centreforcities.org/city-by-city/puas/

..and the Casani book “Go an airline adventure” well worth a read, lots about project “Brazil” for guess where!? MV knows the answer!

[Buster the Bear]

Now this would be an ideal fit for Southampton?

airBaltic (https://centreforaviation.com/data/profiles/airlines/airbaltic-bt) CEO Martin Gauss said the carrier identified airports in Europe (https://centreforaviation.com/data/profiles/regions/europe) that could serve as bases should the carrier exercise options for 30 A220-300 aircraft (Routes Online, 24-May-2019). Mr Gauss said: “It would be a point-to-point operation to other countries outside the Baltics”. Mr Gauss added: “Our business plan calls for up to 50 A220s to be based here – expanding from Riga which stays a hub and spoke airport – but also Tallinn (https://centreforaviation.com/data/profiles/airports/tallinn-lennart-meri-airport-tll) and Vilnius (https://centreforaviation.com/data/profiles/airports/vilnius-international-airport-vno); we’re adding aircraft to these two bases”.

[stewyb]

CAA stats for March show GVA down a significant 17% on 2018. Any reason as to why circa 1k less passengers took this route? I think EZY finished earlier this year but only towards the end of March

[GdLSF]

Possibly the fact that Easter was end of March 2018 but not while April week 3 this year.

[stewyb]

Trump rumoured to be at SOU tomorrow on board a C32 (Air Force 1)!

[The Nutts Mutts]

He was indeed, it’s not everyday you see Air Force One at SOU! (Or even a 757 for that matter!)

[rog747]

PM Trudeau in his A310 had to go to LGW as I guess that was too big for SOU - unless the chap was going to have a quick private visit to meet HM>?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I for one want to see SOU developed to its full potential as it will benefit the entire region. If you look at the likes of BRS they are now handling 9million passengers a year. Yet between them BOH & SOU struggle to get a combined 2.8m. The population of BRS is much smaller than the SOU/PMTH and BMTH populations combined - so what the hell is going on?!
It's not super complex, the airport is massively constrained by it's physical environment and runway length, not to mention the proximity to both Heathrow and Gatwick, something which affects BRS regarding LHR but less so LGW. These markets don't operate in isolation of course, there is substantial overlap, and just look at the sheer volume on offer from easyJet out of Gatwick. We have too many airports in the UK.

[Sharklet_321]

I had some time on my hands.

April as a whole saw 147,209 pax, down 12.8% on last year, rolling total 1,945,517 down 5.6%. Some good news mixed in with the bad:

Positives

Leeds Bradford 2,438 up 120%
Alderney 2,064 up 22%
Rennes 1,478 up 10%
Chambery 1,189 up 10%
Edinburgh 15,351 up 8%

No change/insignificant change

Cork 2,300 +2%
Guernsey 9,355 -1%
Jersey 13,387 -1%
Nantes 1,708 0%
Paris 6,449 -3%
Newcastle 9,434 -3%
Dusseldorf 2,529 -4%
Alicante 2,678 -4%

Negatives

Bergerac 3,236 -5%
La Rochelle 1,077 -8%
Glasgow 13,826 -9%
Belfast 9,816 -10%
Malaga 3,124 -11%
Limoges 1,015 -18%
Manchester 16,713 -18%
Palma 1,060 -21%
Dublin 10,202 -24%
Faro 1,850 -24%
Amsterdam 14,302 -32%
Geneva 554 -82%
Bordeaux 0 (last year 1,412)
Aberdeen 0 (last year 1,877)

[stewyb]

Expansion work supposed to be starting in October

[RW20]

Stewby,
What do you base this info on?,the planning permission from EBC had yet to be approved.
There will be many objections and delays ,so even if approved then surely 2020 will not be a viable date for completion.On another note ,the passanger figures are very disappointing as late,will any airline be interested in coming to Southampton with the proposed runway extension?

[Dropoffcharge]

Expansion work supposed to be starting in October
Which October is the question??.......

[TCAS FAN]

The Marlhill Tree works have been stopped by a high court order after one person called for a judicial review of the decision to allow the work done on the trees.

I understand that a judgement in favour of the Airport Operator has been given - fuel up the chainsaws?

[Planespeaking]

I understand that a judgement in favour of the Airport Operator has been given - fuel up the chainsaws?
Assuming the obstruction represented by the trees is removed what improvements in payload/range can be expected at SOU?
Will that open the airport up to A319/320 equipment?

[TCAS FAN]

Assuming the obstruction represented by the trees is removed what improvements in payload/range can be expected at SOU?
Will that open the airport up to A319/320 equipment?

Removal of obstacles by reducing the height of Marhill Copse trees will not totally solve the obstacle problem, the hill is going nowhere! As mentioned in a previous post it will permit many jet users to take advantage of the a much better obstacle environment which will increase take-off weights (ie fuel/PAX/range). When I was last directly involved, many years ago I believe that it was worth 2-3 tonnes extra for an E145 departure.

As you may be aware the airport has for many years been used by A319/320s, albeit with weight restrictions. Once the new Type A Chart is published, following tree height reduction, there is hopefuly some out there who has current A319/320 take-off performance data who can quantify what exactly the improvement will be.

[rog747]

Yes It has been hot today - Flybe Dash 8 prop flight SOU-Alicante had to stop at BOH for fuel - Just shows the limitations of SOU airport, and using small props on almost 3 hour sectors with a full IT summer load and bags. not gonna happen is it....

[Expressflight]

Yes It has been hot today - Flybe Dash 8 prop flight SOU-Alicante had to stop at BOH for fuel - Just shows the limitations of SOU airport, and using small props on almost 3 hour sectors with a full IT summer load and bags. not gonna happen is it....
rog747
I assume they were using 20 at the time. I'd be surprised it couldn't do SOU-ALC off 02 if the wind permitted

[Planespeaking]

Yes It has been hot today - Flybe Dash 8 prop flight SOU-Alicante had to stop at BOH for fuel - Just shows the limitations of SOU airport, and using small props on almost 3 hour sectors with a full IT summer load and bags. not gonna happen is it....
Suddenly SOU seems to have gone into negative territory. I know it has a huge dependence on FlyBe which must be a severe worry, but why is the airport's runway constraints becoming more and more of a problem?

[RW20]

Sou is on a downward spiral,the necessary airside improvements including the starter strip should have happened years ago,and it looks like little will change.
unless something major happens then things can only get worse.

[The Nutts Mutts]

and it looks like little will change

I’d argue that with the masterplan, runway starter strip planning application and purchase of land for tree safeguarding there’s more potential for things to change at SOU now than there has been for a number of years.

[Dropoffcharge]

I’d argue that with the masterplan, runway starter strip planning application and purchase of land for tree safeguarding there’s more potential for things to change at SOU now than there has been for a number of years.

That's of course if the planning actually gets approval from EBC, so the masterplan can even be implemented, time will tell I guess.

[RW20]

Is anything going to happen at SOU?,it's July ,no planning permission submitted,pax figures stagnant,no new routes,airlines decreasing.
can the airport continue as it is ?Things dont look brilliant!

[Planespeaking]

Is anything going to happen at SOU?,it's July ,no planning permission submitted,pax figures stagnant,no new routes,airlines decreasing.
can the airport continue as it is ?Things dont look brilliant!

There seems to be a stunning silence from the airport operator and the local authority. Nothing has been stated that will install confidence to prospective new airlines or even the one major remaining airline. That too may change after today's announcement of the take over of Flybe by Connect.

I hope I'm wrong but perhaps the potential for runway extension within the confines of the airpôrt boundary does not make it commercially viable for operators such as EZY and Ryanair.

[Sharklet_321]

Doesn't make good reading - what on earth is going on with some of these numbers? I've tried to put notes where I can think of a reason for the fall.

May 2019 passenger stats: 159,249 -13% compared to May 2018. Rolling total 1,921,779 -7.1%

Positives

Guernsey 12,351 +8% (New Aurigny flights)
Edinburgh 16,137 +6%​​​​​​
Mahon 76 +4%
Newcastle 10,296 no change
Dusseldorf 2,635 no change

Negatives

Avignon 85 -1%
Alderney 2,165 -1%
Malaga 3,582 -4%
Bergerac 3,799 -5%
Alicante 3,789 -6%
Jersey 14,578 -7%
Paris CDG 6,153 -7%
Ibiza 334 -9%
Glasgow 14,885 -12%
Faro 2,396 -13%
Palma 2,066 -14%
Nantes 1,564 -15%
Toulon 76 -17%
Perpignan 70 -19%
Verona 762 -20%
Dublin 11,236 -21% (Ryanair return on BOH-DUB?)
Manchester 17,498 -21% ​​​​​​
La Rochelle 1,273 -22%
Rennes 1,249 -27%
Amsterdam 13,725 -32% (KLM withdrawal?)
Leeds Bradford 2,444 -33%
Limoges 966 -37%
Cork 1,370 -41% (Aer Lingus Regional withdrawal?)
Biarritz 64 -49%
Bastia 66 -54%
Bordeaux 304 -80%

No data/not known

ABZ 0
BHD 0

[stewyb]

There are clearly some bed wetters on this thread that want to see SOU fail. We have been given no information to suggest that the expansion plans are not moving ahead and in fact I received a response from the MD back in early May to confirm that plans were to be submitted later this summer. I was also told from someone who has their ear to the ground at the airport that works were due to start around October 2019. How accurate this is I cannot say but I do know that there is a total commitment to have the expansion plans carried out and for the airport to have a much brighter future!

[Planespeaking]

There are clearly some bed wetters on this thread that want to see SOU fail. We have been given no information to suggest that the expansion plans are not moving ahead and in fact I received a response from the MD back in early May to confirm that plans were to be submitted later this summer. I was also told from someone who has their ear to the ground at the airport that works were due to start around October 2019. How accurate this is I cannot say but I do know that there is a total commitment to have the expansion plans carried out and for the airport to have a much brighter future!
I trust and hope your analysis is correct for the future of SOU, but at the moment the public and industry perception is very negative. There seems to be a policy of deliberate neglect which is feeding through to the media and therefore to the wider world. Look at the number of airlines that have jumped ship in the last 2 years.

Either this is a cynical way to kill off the airline operation in order to make the airport unviable, so the only way is to sell it for real estate, or it is very inept airport management which could risk the whole aviation operation through lack of committment.

Time will tell, but unfortunately time seems to be running out for SOU.

However if SEN can rise from a much closer 'near death experience' so can SOU!!

[ATNotts]

The problem for SOU is that it is in golfing terms playing with just one club in it's bag - FlyBe. That club has recently been repaired, but nobody knows how it's going to perform going ahead, and whether it's going to perform best as a driver or a putter! It won't any longer be all things to all men.

This means that some airports will likely catch a cold; others may prosper. The winners, I suspect will be particular MAN, and possibly LHR. The losers BHX, and I fear SOU. That's not to say they'll withdraw from either, but that their presence will be somewhat diminished. Some airports may lose them altogether. The next six months may be crucial.

What the loser airports will have to do is find some new players to fill the holes, and aside of Loganair I'm struggling to see where they will come from, especially with a potential no deal Brexit closing the door to EU operators operating domestically in UK.

[Rivet Joint]

There are clearly some bed wetters on this thread that want to see SOU fail. We have been given no information to suggest that the expansion plans are not moving ahead and in fact I received a response from the MD back in early May to confirm that plans were to be submitted later this summer. I was also told from someone who has their ear to the ground at the airport that works were due to start around October 2019. How accurate this is I cannot say but I do know that there is a total commitment to have the expansion plans carried out and for the airport to have a much brighter future!

Agreed. They have ruined this thread and one in particular user is surely approaching a ban shortly?

If you go on SOU’s social media the new MD has been spreading the message about the expansion plans all over the place. There has also not surprisingly been an uplift in the publicity of how green the airport is and how much it does for the community (all of which is standard in the run up to expansion). The tree works have been put on hold to allow the nesting season to pass.

there has been a lull over the last year which is not surprising as the aviation sector is in a period of consolidation (especially the regional market). All the more reason why SOU is finally taking the plunge and creating facilities acceptable to one of the big low cost operators. What will never change is that people want to fly from SOU and the transport infrastructure is second to none. The same will probably never be said about BOH, who are welcome to the small minority who will put up with all the agro just to fly for a £1. It’s small potatoes for both BOH and FR, so is never going to be a threat to SOU (not would SOU want anything to do with FR I am willing to bet). Fingers crossed the bedwetters can hold off their negativeness until the autumn.

[Sharklet_321]

There are clearly some bed wetters on this thread that want to see SOU fail. We have been given no information to suggest that the expansion plans are not moving ahead and in fact I received a response from the MD back in early May to confirm that plans were to be submitted later this summer. I was also told from someone who has their ear to the ground at the airport that works were due to start around October 2019. How accurate this is I cannot say but I do know that there is a total commitment to have the expansion plans carried out and for the airport to have a much brighter future!

Is that the same MD who flew from London for a meeting in Glasgow and was silly enough to post it on twitter? (apparently Flybe didn't provide the right timings)

[RW20]

AT Notts
Bournemouth is certainly not one of the losers,increasing pax,routes and more to come I would think. Sou performance over the last 12 months has been very disappointing to say the least.Maybe a look at Southend development and investment would show how it can progress. The key is investment, something SOU has had very little in recent years. As stated by other contributors to this blog,there has been little progress to the proposed development plans,it will be a year soon from when they were proposed.
Where are we with them?,the longer they remain as talk only,the less chance of attracting a carrier.

[MARKEYD]

According to “routes on line “the following routes are being discontinued from the end of the season

La Rochelle
Nantes
Rennes
Alicante ( this has been operated throughout the winter for the last few years on a DCH8 )

The last EMB 195 looks to go now on the 3 rd Oct with Malaga being the last operated service , the jet was originally finishing at the end of Oct but Flybe look ready to finish a bit earlier in the season

[Dropoffcharge]

Could this be the start of a Virgin Connect route cull do we think?

[PDXCWL45]

Could this be the start of a Virgin Connect route cull do we think?
Or the end of some seasonal routes? Or these routes have been culled so they can base/overnight an aircraft at Cardiff to operate Dublin Cork and Jersey.

[RW20]

The decline at SOU continues,and meanwhile no application for the proposed development,at this rate will there be any need for expansion?

[sinbad73]

The decline at SOU continues,and meanwhile no application for the proposed development,at this rate will there be any need for expansion?

Declines at GLA and ABZ continue too. All 3 airports run by AGS. Coincidence?

[fjencl]

Eastern Airways Our Flybe franchise services from Southampton Airport to Leeds Bradford Airport are increasing up to 3 flights a day, Monday to Thursday from 9 September 2019 to offer more choice. Flights are bookable now at flybe.com (http://flybe.com/?fbclid=IwAR1kEyvLt34PnBR3SQ1xLs0v-MIyrDQzvlOCAAcQlGvfLNKfcpduCjbXyLU)

[TCAS FAN]

Is anything going to happen at SOU?,it's July ,no planning permission submitted,pax figures stagnant,no new routes,airlines decreasing.
can the airport continue as it is ?Things dont look brilliant!

I understand from a reliable source that submission of a Planning Application for the starter strip is expected next month.

[stewyb]

I understand from a reliable source that submission of a Planning Application for the starter strip is expected next month.

TCAS FAN that would correlate with what I have been told also! :ok:

[stewyb]

Funny how this thread has gone so quiet since it was mentioned that a planning application will be submitted next month. The usual moaners I guess don't have a lot to say at present and before you say it needs to pass planning etc etc, the airport owners have chucked an absolute fortune at the expansion plans so my guess would be they feel confident of a positive outcome!

[Rivet Joint]

Funny how this thread has gone so quiet since it was mentioned that a planning application will be submitted next month. The usual moaners I guess don't have a lot to say at present and before you say it needs to pass planning etc etc, the airport owners have chucked an absolute fortune at the expansion plans so my guess would be they feel confident of a positive outcome!

Totally agree. One poster in particular is notably absent.

[RW20]

I guess River Joint you mean me. I'm all for SOU development,but it's had been many years being talked about and I feel they owners have "missed the boat" by some time.,>if and it's a big if, planning permission is given the extension proposed will not be operational till 2021,by which time with the impending Brexit outcome applied ,the uncertainty,fuel costs, environmental concerns etc will not be conjusive to attracting a major player like Easy for example in setting up a base .Flybe continue to under perform and have a stranglehold on the airport,recent times have shown major disruptions at the airport with planes out of position,due to the very restricted opening times at SOU, something that won't change due to the tight opening hours that have been agreed. This alone would not work with airlines that SOU hope to attract ,I'm afraid the proposed development will not give the airport a lifeline that it urgently needs. Look to Southend to see how it could have been,the future at SOU looks deciding uncertain as time progresses.

[Aero Mad]

I guess River Joint you mean me. I'm all for SOU development,but it's had been many years being talked about and I feel they owners have "missed the boat" by some time.,>if and it's a big if, planning permission is given the extension proposed will not be operational till 2021,by which time with the impending Brexit outcome applied ,the uncertainty,fuel costs, environmental concerns etc will not be conjusive to attracting a major player like Easy for example in setting up a base .Flybe continue to under perform and have a stranglehold on the airport,recent times have shown major disruptions at the airport with planes out of position,due to the very restricted opening times at SOU, something that won't change due to the tight opening hours that have been agreed. This alone would not work with airlines that SOU hope to attract ,I'm afraid the proposed development will not give the airport a lifeline that it urgently needs. Look to Southend to see how it could have been,the future at SOU looks deciding uncertain as time progresses.

Something I don't understand about this sort of criticism is that, despite all the disadvantages that people claim that AGS inflicts on it, 2018 was the second-busiest year in SOU's history at 1.99 million passengers. Why does an airport which was used by nearly 2 million people last year need a 'lifeline' and why does its future look uncertain? I'm quite at a loss...

[Sharklet_321]

I'm a newly recent local who would really relish an opportunity to fly from SOU over London if the option (ie. easyJet or Ryanair or Jet2 or BA Cityflyer) exists. So I am all for SOU development if it means the AREA as a whole benefits. There is no reason whatsoever that SOU can't emulate SEN. Look at the SEN arrival boards - Ryanair and easyJet all coming in well before 23:00 so that style of operation would work incredibly well at SOU with its night restrictions.

The only reason I can imagine that people on this thread are negative right now is probably down to the fact that Flybe are so godamnawful and there is literally no other airport in the country that has such a Flybe stronghold with bad service for customers, no alternatives to choose from... I avoid Flybe I don't avoid SOU.

[Sharklet_321]

June passengers 167,800 -10.6%
Rolling 12 month total 1,901,946 -7.5%

Positives

Guernsey 14,310 v 10,912 +31%
Bastia 565 v 466 +21%
Nantes 1,795 v 1,541 +16%
Mahon 739 v 718 +3%
Paris CDG 7,010 v 6,774 +3%
Biarritz 606 v 594 +2%
Dusseldorf 2,692 v 2,630 +2%
Faro 2,841 v 2,792 +2%

Negatives:

Bordeaux 1,165 v 1,950 -40%
Leeds Bradford 1,958 v 3,048 -36%
Avignon 457 v 701 -35%
Limoges 1,093 v 1,631 -33%
Amsterdam 13,760 v 20,204 -32%
Verona 1,272 v 1,865 -32%
Toulon 687 v 901 -24%
Dublin 11,299 v 14,045 -20%
Glasgow 14,405 v 17,052 -16%
Alicante 4,781 v 5,397 -11%
La Rochelle 1,874 v 2,085 -10%
Malaga 3,617 v 4,035 -10%
Palma 4,284 v 4,700 -9%
Alderney 2,096 v 2,282 -8%
Jersey 13,890 v 14,962 -7%
Bergerac 4,026 v 4,281 -6%
Newcastle 9,795 v 10,352 -5%
Rennes 1,547 v 1,633 -5%
Perpignan 560 v 581 -4%
Manchester 16,760 v 17,441 -4%
Ibiza 960 v 980 -2%
Edinburgh 15,269 v 15,389 -1%

No longer operated:

Cork 0
Rodez 0
Aberdeen 0
Brescia 0

Data not available:

Belfast City

[Sharklet_321]

Belfast route data now available for June

11,441 v 12,116 -6%

[RW20]

So the end of August nears,any announcements? .It's the same old story - lots of bluster, possibilities,but essentially no real developments. Passenger figures on many routes decline,while at other airports i.e. Bournemouth and especially Southend seem to be be on the up!.The reason for this is they have a dynamic management team ,and airside improvements that have encompassd the needs of today's air trave!, something that SOU should have addressed years ago!. Simply SOU will continue to decline in the near future if there are no progressive developments . Next few months are critical to the airports future!

[Sharklet_321]

easyJet will put their Summer 2020 network on sale on Sept 19th

[stewyb]

easyJet will put their Summer 2020 network on sale on Sept 19th

Meaning what exactly?

[rog747]

Meaning what exactly?

Quite - EZY have never had a summer schedule out of SOU or BOH for that matter let alone 2020 - So, Maybe exciting news?? (at last)

[MARKEYD]

That I would imagine Easy Jet put on sale there summer schedule of 2020 minus anything from SOU ,
that they have never promised , until possible “ said works are done “ ?

[stewyb]

July’s CAA stats out and once again the airport is hemorrhaging passengers, down 20k versus same month last year with a 9% reduction. All routes suffering except those to the Balearics that seem to be holding up!

[Sharklet_321]

July 182,773 -9.2%
Rolling 12 months 1,883,476

Positives:
Guernsey 15,658 39%
Palma 4,293 11%
Alderney 2,958 4%
Mahon 565 4%

No change:
Malaga 3,765
Alicante 5,543
Edinburgh 16,804

Negatives:
Toulon 555 -52%
Verona 1,051 -36%
Leeds Bradford 2,149 -30%
Perpignan 331 -30%
Limoges 1,270 -30%
Brest 434 -24%
Amsterdam 14,599 -28%
Dublin 12,505 -19%
Bastia 467 -14%
Dusseldorf 2,860 -14%
La Rochelle 2,095 -13%
Faro 2,532 -12%
Avignon 510 -12%
Belfast City 11,902 -11%
Bordeaux 2,211 -10%
Jersey 15,203 -7%
Ibiza 908 -6%
Rennes 1,723 -5%
Bergerac 4,487 -3%
Nantes 2,209 -3%
Biarritz 449 -3%
Manchester 18,384 -2%
Paris CDG 7,442 -2%

Data not yet available:
Newcastle
Glasgow

Misc:
Rodez - discontinued
Cork - discontinued
Skiathos - discontinued
Rotterdam 53 pax
Toulouse 63 pax
Split 33 pax
East Midlands 31 pax

[Planespeaking]

July 182,773 -9.2%
Rolling 12 months 1,883,476

Positives:
Guernsey 15,658 39%
Palma 4,293 11%
Alderney 2,958 4%
Mahon 565 4%

No change:
Malaga 3,765
Alicante 5,543
Edinburgh 16,804

Negatives:
Toulon 555 -52%
Verona 1,051 -36%
Leeds Bradford 2,149 -30%
Perpignan 331 -30%
Limoges 1,270 -30%
Brest 434 -24%
Amsterdam 14,599 -28%
Dublin 12,505 -19%
Bastia 467 -14%
Dusseldorf 2,860 -14%
La Rochelle 2,095 -13%
Faro 2,532 -12%
Avignon 510 -12%
Belfast City 11,902 -11%
Bordeaux 2,211 -10%
Jersey 15,203 -7%
Ibiza 908 -6%
Rennes 1,723 -5%
Bergerac 4,487 -3%
Nantes 2,209 -3%
Biarritz 449 -3%
Manchester 18,384 -2%
Paris CDG 7,442 -2%

Data not yet available:
Newcastle
Glasgow

Misc:
Rodez - discontinued
Cork - discontinued
Skiathos - discontinued
Rotterdam 53 pax
Toulouse 63 pax
Split 33 pax
East Midlands 31 pax


As the saying goes..'every picture tells a story'...however what has really changed at SOU? Perhaps the answer is in the question...nothing. The the airlines have moved on, with new equipment requiring updated infrastructure airside and SOU has been left behind.

It seems to me that benign neglect is now the policy, perhaps the shareholders know more about the long term plan, and that may not be aviation orientated. I hope I am wrong. It was and could be a great airport.

[MARKEYD]

Not so good news regarding the Easyjet Geneva route

Looks like Easyjet have dropped the Tuesday mid week rotation except for February half term when 2 flights are operating

I am surprised that Inghams Ski and Crystal haven’t used Easyjet for Sunday flights like they have at Bournemouth , they take a large section of flights and seem to sell very well , in fact the second Saturday flight is nearly all taken up

Tuesday flights were always going to be hard to sell
especially 180 seats mid January

[The Nutts Mutts]

It looks like the Tuesday flights operate at the start of the season in December for two weeks, are dropped in January, return for two weeks around February half term, and then stop after that for the rest of the season.
It’s less flights for the airport but it does seem more efficient from the airline’s point of view, hopefully the remaining flights are profitable if they’ve been kept.
At least they haven’t pulled out completely!
(crossing fingers that those words don’t come back to haunt me!)

[RW20]

Southampton continues to decline ,month on month,at the present rate it must be up for the fastest declining UK airport, eventually these figures will not be sustainable. Year on year poor management,no real investment,has started a accelerating decline. It seems that as mentioned in another post the owners perhaps have development plans,which are not aviation driven. Expect Futher declines in pax , movements and lack of news in the next 12 months. The question is will there be a airport still in the next few years?
I think highly unlightly,if the trend continues.

[TCAS FAN]

I understand from a reliable source that submission of a Planning Application for the starter strip is expected next month.

August come and gone and nothing seen on the Eastleigh Borough Council website, the reliability of my source regretably called into question.

The bird nesting season also come and gone, no tree work either?

Can anyone come up with anything currently positive about SOU?

[Wycombe]

In one word ‘no’!

Well, traffic to GCI seems to have been stimulated by GR joining the route.....but that's about it :hmm:

[rog747]

Is TUI still planning SOU-PMI/IBZ and MAH for Summer 2020 (using Volotea this year) - any expansion for IT charters?

[stewyb]

Is TUI still planning SOU-PMI/IBZ and MAH for Summer 2020 (using Volotea this year) - any expansion for IT charters?

Showing in the TUI booking engine last time I looked to run the same schedule as this year!

[MARKEYD]

It looks a carbon copy of this year

Tues. Palma. Volotea B717
Thu. Ibiza. Volotea B717
Sat. Palma. Volotea B717
Sat. Mahon. Flybe DHC8

Could be that TUI reschedules the Flybe flight next year depending the outcome of there involvement of 3rd party flying

Regarding any extra flights or new destinations I think that TUI have probably finished launching there summer 2020 programme, the last bit was done in July 19

[RW20]

So SOU has no new routes,no development news,but decreasing pax!. Obviously there is something fundementay wrong!. SOU is ideally positioned for pax from London and across the south. If Bournemouth was in Southampton position geographicly it would be in the 3m+ pax by now,simply because it has had airside investment and a progressive management team!. Wake up Southampton it will be to late soon!!!

[sinbad73]

AGS Airports. Aberdeen, Glasgow and Southampton all owned by the same company and all performing poorly. Coincidence?

[AirportPlanner1]

AGS Airports. Aberdeen, Glasgow and Southampton all owned by the same company and all performing poorly. Coincidence?

Yes. Fortunes of Aberdeen are inextricably linked to offshore which has been in long-term decline. Southampton’s main operator (the one that best fits the airport’s constraints) has been in intensive care.

[rog747]

No wonder SOU and Flybe have little competitive future - Lazy management and exorbitant fares.

I want to go to Leeds -

Just had an email today from BE saying 100,000's of seats from OCT 1st from £35 - Great I thought...!
SOU for me is superb as I can get the direct train from West Dorset.
Go to the BE booking engine and you cannot get a fare to LBA (on a non-stop flight) for under around £160-200...(£500 if you want a fully flexible!!)
If one wants to go via Belfast taking almost all day (0800-1430, with a 3 hour stop over in BHD) then you might find a fare for under £70...

Go to BA.com and using my Avios I can get Club Europe (with the Galleries Lounge, plus a nice hot breakfast onboard) for £0.50p - but I have a 2 hour drive to LHR

[PDXCWL45]

No wonder SOU and Flybe have little competitive future - Lazy management and exorbitant fares.

I want to go to Leeds -

Just had an email today from BE saying 100,000's of seats from OCT 1st from £35 - Great I thought...!
SOU for me is superb as I can get the direct train from West Dorset.
Go to the BE booking engine and you cannot get a fare to LBA (on a non-stop flight) for under around £160-200...(£500 if you want a fully flexible!!)
If one wants to go via Belfast taking almost all day (0800-1430, with a 3 hour stop over in BHD) then you might find a fare for under £70...

Go to BA.com and using my Avios I can get Club Europe (with the Galleries Lounge, plus a nice hot breakfast onboard) for £0.50p - but I have a 2 hour drive to LHR
You need to remember that the LBA route is Eastern Airways not Flybe so probably isn't included in the sale.
I read this thread a lot and I wonder if the expectation is too high for the airport and SOU is around the passenger numbers it will always be around between 1.5 million people and 2 million passengers a year with the route network it has being the network it can sustain. I do know that my local airport would kill for quite a lot of what Southampton has with airlines and routes.

[SWBKCB]

No wonder SOU and Flybe have little competitive future - Lazy management and exorbitant fares.

I want to go to Leeds -

Just had an email today from BE saying 100,000's of seats from OCT 1st from £35 - Great I thought...!
SOU for me is superb as I can get the direct train from West Dorset.
Go to the BE booking engine and you cannot get a fare to LBA (on a non-stop flight) for under around £160-200...(£500 if you want a fully flexible!!)
If one wants to go via Belfast taking almost all day (0800-1430, with a 3 hour stop over in BHD) then you might find a fare for under £70...

Go to BA.com and using my Avios I can get Club Europe (with the Galleries Lounge, plus a nice hot breakfast onboard) for £0.50p - but I have a 2 hour drive to LHR

"A nice hot breakfast on BA" - are you sure?? I think you know more about airline economics than your post suggests, so this seems to be an excuse to have a pop!

[rog747]

"A nice hot breakfast on BA" - are you sure?? I think you know more about airline economics than your post suggests, so this seems to be an excuse to have a pop!

No pops at all - My post clearly says it all - £160-£200 quid for a O/W from SOU-LBA is like ouch!

As for a BA CE hot breakie - yes HB is still served for now, on Domestics in Club until 0930...Thus I'll use my Avios thanks, but I have now to drive as I said, 2 hours to LHR ISO of using my local airport.

[stewyb]

Latest direct from the airport themselves - 'the Master Plan has now been finalised and will be published via our website within the next few weeks. Please keep checking back on our channels for more updates very soon'

Does this mean that planning will go in at the same time?

[PintofDoom]

Main problem with this route is it is fairly high demand but not enough for a q400, hence why Eastern Airways are still flying the route, currently they are using a J41 and sub in the Saab 2000 which was ideal but apparently not making money. Where as the J41 is making money. But with only 29 seats capacity is limited so at a premium.

[rog747]

Main problem with this route is it is fairly high demand but not enough for a q400, hence why Eastern Airways are still flying the route, currently they are using a J41 and sub in the Saab 2000 which was ideal but apparently not making money. Where as the J41 is making money. But with only 29 seats capacity is limited so at a premium.

Sit in a dinky J41 for an hours flight to LBA for £200 each way?
No thanks, my nostalgia does not run that far - I'll do the big BA Airbus jet cheers.

I'm pretty peeved to say the least as I am keen to use SOU where I can, and support it, but this upcoming LBA trip is simply untenable from there.

[RW20]

The Leeds route will surely be the next to go!,and as for the finished master plan to be published in the next few weeks is just kbosh!!.As far as SOU is concerned it has had master plan after master plan since 2005,but nothing materializes from them. There will be no planning application,but maybe the owners are happy with a stagnated growth with paxa 1.5to 2.mill for the near future till they sell to land development.

[Dropoffcharge]

Latest direct from the airport themselves

Via what format may I ask? As I've seen nothing mentioned through the usual routes about anything.

[stewyb]

Via what format may I ask? As I've seen nothing mentioned through the usual routes about anything.

They replied on their Facebook page to a question asked by a poster (the actual post was general aviation related)

[SWBKCB]

I'm pretty peeved to say the least as I am keen to use SOU where I can, and support it, but this upcoming LBA trip is simply untenable from there.

Or roughly translated, you're not prepared to pay the going rate on a thin regional route?

And for comparison, flying Friday afternoon LHR-LBA is £273, SOU-LBA £108. :ok:

[Buster the Bear]

I thought Eastern mostly used ancient Saab 2000s compared to ancient J41?

[shamrock7seal]

Loganair seem to be going crazy with expansion at the moment. I wonder if they would be a good fit for SOU? Certainly better than BOH that's for sure.

I could easily imagine them replacing a lot of the non-core Flybe network if it ever comes to that

[Saabdriver1]

I can't think so. Airfield performance on the E135/145 at SOU is dreadful.

[stewyb]

I can't think so. Airfield performance on the E135/145 at SOU is dreadful.

Airfield performance on anything is dreadful! :)

[shamrock7seal]

How is it possible that Loganair operates the ERJ135/145 out of GCI with a 1,583m runway but can't operate out of SOU's 1,723m runway?

[Wycombe]

How is it possible that Loganair operates the ERJ135/145 out of GCI with a 1,583m runway but can't operate out of SOU's 1,723m runway?

I suspect that at least part of the reason is due to obstacle clearance issues at SOU?

[stewyb]

I suspect that at least part of the reason is due to obstacle clearance issues at SOU?

I wonder when Marlhill Copse will be tackled. This would definitely alleviate some obstacle problems and increase take off weight. Is nesting season over yet?

[Rivet Joint]

How is it possible that Loganair operates the ERJ135/145 out of GCI with a 1,583m runway but can't operate out of SOU's 1,723m runway?

dont listen to this rubbish. There are a lot of trolls on here, the best way to deal with it is to not feed them. BMI (I.e Loganair) operated the ERJ to Munich without a problem. Eastern use it every now and then along with others. British Airways use to base a few at SOU I think.

I must say I am surprised Logan are not looking at routes from SOU, especially after seeing that laughable bunch of routes they have just announced. The Munich route was growing very well, and was only dropped because of a shortage of aircraft from memory. They could also add SOU to their base in Aberdeen, which is another route with history at SOU. Perhaps even Brussels, they fly there from a number of other airports.

[SWBKCB]

The Munich route was growing very well, and was only dropped because of a shortage of aircraft from memory.

Who operated the MUC route? Who will have access to all the traffic data?

[Jaymac2061]

BA Connect used145s for many years. Can’t see them competing on EDI/GLA versus Flybe frequency which would leave ABZ

[PDXCWL45]

Who operated the MUC route? Who will have access to all the traffic data?
flyBMI and probably Loganair.

[SWBKCB]

flyBMI and probably Loganair.

Exactly - and despite launching a 'laughable bunch of routes', they haven't come back.

Maybe a shortage of aircraft was a diplomatic way out (and basically says all our other routes are making more money...)

[AirportPlanner1]

I must say I am surprised Logan are not looking at routes from SOU, especially after seeing that laughable bunch of routes they have just announced.

Which of the new routes is laughable please?

[PDXCWL45]

Exactly - and despite launching a 'laughable bunch of routes', they haven't come back.

Maybe a shortage of aircraft was a diplomatic way out (and basically says all our other routes are making more money...)
How are the new routes laughable? Cardiff to Glasgow is a pretty established and they seem to have found a niche with Aberdeen and Newcastle to Norway. Guernsey was a surprise yes but it is again a niche holiday destination and they have operated other destinations from Guernsey I believe.
If you look in general Loganair haven't taken up any any flyBMI German routes not even from Bristol. Their main focus seems to be on Aberdeen and Newcastle and Southend at the moment so they may not just be interested yet in Southampton.

[AirportPlanner1]

I think we can translate “laughable” as “I’ve never heard of Haugesund therefore no one else has” and “Newcastle is too far away for me to care about”.

[stewyb]

Heard that BE will be using the E75 for their sun routes next summer!

[MARKEYD]

That has to be good news for SOU

My question is , as not familiar with aircraft ranges is can the 175 operate to Malaga or Faro with a full load of bags , pax and fuel ?

[stewyb]

That has to be good news for SOU

My question is , as not familiar with aircraft ranges is can the 175 operate to Malaga or Faro with a full load of bags , pax and fuel ?

Not sure as I also thought the E75 was performance limited in summer conditions. Only what I have heard and will be interesting to see what develops!

[OltonPete]

That has to be good news for SOU

My question is , as not familiar with aircraft ranges is can the 175 operate to Malaga or Faro with a full load of bags , pax and fuel ?


BHX-Florence on the 175 was a disaster in terms of on-time performance due to the FLR runway limitations but Southampton has got an extra 500ft to play with which might make the difference. In fact the 175 was replaced by the 195 eventually then the service was chopped.

I used the BHX service once in that well known summer peak of mid-April and 30 bags were off-loaded on a full flight delaying us one hour - the temperature was 24c so warm for April but not for high-summer. If we get a hot summer that would be a hell of a lot of lost tow-bars (sorry couldn't resist, as that was the pathetic excuse Flybe gave for the delay).

Pete

[Dropoffcharge]

Not sure as I also thought the E75 was performance limited in summer conditions. Only what I have heard and will be interesting to see what develops!

Let's hope not too limited, otherwise could mean more embarrassing fuel stops at BOH on route.

[adfly]

Was the original plan not for the runway extension and tree felling to be done over the winter in time for next summer? If so, I would think there shouldn't be too many issues using the E175's, assuming it goes ahead.

[Albert Hall]

I’m struggling to see where there has been any statement that these routes will return for 2020 to prompt any speculation about the aircraft that will fly them. As far as I had understood, the routes were closed early this year after a poor summer and there is no guarantee they will be back in any shape or form. With Flybe’s other sunshine routes at Exeter, Norwich, Cardiff and Doncaster all gone, they really would be lone routes that no longer fit with the rest of the network.

[fjencl]

I’m struggling to see where there has been any statement that these routes will return for 2020 to prompt any speculation about the aircraft that will fly them. As far as I had understood, the routes were closed early this year after a poor summer and there is no guarantee they will be back in any shape or form. With Flybe’s other sunshine routes at Exeter, Norwich, Cardiff and Doncaster all gone, they really would be lone routes that no longer fit with the rest of the network.
Well said .......

[TartinTon]

BMI (I.e Loganair) operated the ERJ to Munich without a problem.


That's not actually correct. The ERJ was capacity restricted to 41 max out of SOU.

[RW20]

Unless the airport expands,i e runway,and airside expansion as per the over hyped master plan announced many moons ago,then the airport will continue to contract,and there is no sign of any planning request. So expect the run down of Sun routes,further pax number reductions and general decline. It's the worst senerio for any regional airport.Times are grim for SOU

[stewyb]

Unless the airport expands,i e runway,and airside expansion as per the over hyped master plan announced many moons ago,then the airport will continue to contract,and there is no sign of any planning request. So expect the run down of Sun routes,further pax number reductions and general decline. It's the worst senerio for any regional airport.Times are grim for SOU


At least when the airport completes the expansion we won’t have to endure your continued whining!

[Albert Hall]

I’d heard that the Embraer 145 performance on a wet runway at SOU was wholly unworkable, prompting a diversion on a soggy day. A payload restriction every day combined with the chance of a diversion or cancellation on a wet day would - I think - be enough to put any airline off.

And bmi couldn’t have been that short of aircraft if they had stopped SOU-MUC and announced LBA-MUC before they ceased to exist ?

[Ejet1993]

Was the original plan not for the runway extension and tree felling to be done over the winter in time for next summer? If so, I would think there shouldn't be too many issues using the E175's, assuming it goes ahead.

There is a e175 based for one month during October. Operating dub/ams/man and the odd Spanish route.

[TCAS FAN]

I’d heard that the Embraer 145 performance on a wet runway at SOU was wholly unworkable, prompting a diversion on a soggy day. A payload restriction every day combined with the chance of a diversion or cancellation on a wet day would - I think - be enough to put any airline off.

When the E145s started operations they were weight restricted on a wet runway. Embraer came up with an intermediate flap setting (I believe "flap 13") which significantly improved performance/weight restrictions.

I also remember a conversation with tha BRAL flight ops manager who indicated if a close in obstacle (tree in/adjacent to Marhill Copse) were reduced/removed a significant further improvement in take-off performance would result, increasing take-off weights by tonnes.

Now the birds have finished nesting anyone yet heard the sweet sound of chainsaws around Marhill Copse?

[sixchannel]

Probably not. TreeHuggers rule - KO.

[Wycombe]

There is a e175 based for one month during October. Operating dub/ams/man and the odd Spanish route

It looks like AGP stops on 2nd Oct, FAO on the 3rd, PMI on the 20th and ALC on the 26th. The latter 2 are often operated on the Q400.

[stewyb]

Good news that BE have added up to 18 flights p/w to AMS & CDG for W19/20!

[Planespeaking]

Good news that BE have added up to 18 flights p/w to AMS & CDG for W19/20!
That is encouraging...it is nice to hear some good news from SOU for a change.

[Ejet1993]

I don't understand the need for a Paris at 6.30, 1030, 1430, why not a evening flight? French business pax won't get a full day. I think these slots are the ones given up by Flybe under the competition rules. They gave up bhx to ams and CDG.

[TCAS FAN]

I also remember a conversation with tha BRAL flight ops manager who indicated if a close in obstacle (tree in/adjacent to Marhill Copse) were reduced/removed a significant further improvement in take-off performance would result, increasing take-off weights by tonnes.

Now the birds have finished nesting anyone yet heard the sweet sound of chainsaws around Marhill Copse?


Went eastbound down M27 this morning, being restricted by roadworks to 50 mph was able to glance to right. One of the apparently offending trees (north of Marhill Copse) still stands, as Kenneth Williams said in Don’t Lose Your Heads “a digit-rampant!” towards the airport!

[OltonPete]

I don't understand the need for a Paris at 6.30, 1030, 1430, why not a evening flight? French business pax won't get a full day. I think these slots are the ones given up by Flybe under the competition rules. They gave up bhx to ams and CDG.

???????? I think the Southampton schedule quoted is this winter and Flybe have given up zero slots and in fact BE Amsterdam at BHX goes up from 5 daily to 7 daily as it did last winter. Flybe/VS/KLM/AF have to give up the BHX - CDG and AMS slots to other airlines outside of Skyteam/Connect/Flybe group and it appears it is from the start of the summer 2020 timetable.

If nobody is interested in these slots then they will be retained and I bet KL and AF would want to get their hands on some of them.

Pete

[jensdad]

It looks like AGP stops on 2nd Oct, FAO on the 3rd, PMI on the 20th and ALC on the 26th. The latter 2 are often operated on the Q400.
Visiting the airport last Thursday I was surprised to see a Flybe E-jet (G-FBEJ I think it was?). Are they using that for domestic routes (with fewer weight restrictions) or internationals?

[sixchannel]

Visiting the airport last Thursday I was surprised to see a Flybe E-jet (G-FBEJ I think it was?). Are they using that for domestic routes (with fewer weight restrictions) or internationals?
It seems to be doing OK on Palma, Alicante, Malaga and Faro rotations. I wonder what the pax allowances are.

[jensdad]

Thanks sixchannel. Indeed, Faro in particular is quite a hike.

[Wycombe]

G-FBEJ is a 195 and this type operates and has operated from SOU to the above-mentioned destinations all Summer!

The earlier post suggests this will be replaced by a 175 for some Med flights in October.

[TCAS FAN]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1149x618/ghpaa_ab3fc1a95aabed90c18a877411bcf59ff2417c79.jpg

When you could have fun at work, long gone are those days.

With all the recent doom and gloom coming from this thread thought it may be time to lighten things up.

[Ejet1993]

G-FBEJ is a 195 and this type operates and has operated from SOU to the above-mentioned destinations all Summer!

The earlier post suggests this will be replaced by a 175 for some Med flights in October.

Schedule shows dub/ams/man/ams Monday to Friday. Then Amsterdam and PMI/ALC weekend.

The lack of e195 equates to 1652 less seats a week from sou for next summer. TUI have dropped mahon from next summer aswell.

[uptoncol]

Schedule shows dub/ams/man/ams Monday to Friday. Then Amsterdam and PMI/ALC weekend.

The lack of e195 equates to 1652 less seats a week from sou for next summer. TUI have dropped mahon from next summer aswell.
Its still on the Tui site allowing you to book Mahon next year from sou
cheers col

[MARKEYD]

TUI have dropped mahon from next summer aswell.

Where have you got this information from ?

[stewyb]

Where have you got this information from ?

Looks like Mahon is not bookable with TUI for next summer, flight timetable indicates all seats are booked up. This was a charter operated by BE and presume part of overall restructure!

[Dropoffcharge]

Looks like Mahon is not bookable with TUI for next summer, flight timetable indicates all seats are booked up. This was a charter operated by BE and presume part of overall restructure!

Could Ibiza and Palma follow suit?? Although both still showing and bookable for S20 atm, time will tell I guess.

[MARKEYD]

Mahon is still bookable on the TUI and First Choice websites as a holiday package only

Flybe are still penciled in like this year to operate the service on a DHC 8 400 but it could still change of course

I guess TUI may well use Volotea to operate the route if Flybe decide not to charter out the aircraft , it seems the right sort of fit of a 125 seater B 717 for the routes to PMI and IBZ

[stewyb]

Looks like Dusseldorf ends 25/10. Won’t be much left at the airport soon and this before BE announce their much culled S20 schedule!

[RW20]

Looks like Dusseldorf ends 25/10. Won’t be much left at the airport soon and this before BE announce their much culled S20 schedule!
Its about time you realised that SOU is in serious decline,and unlikely that things will change with the current owners and management team. Putting your eggs in one basket i e Flybe years ago has come home to roost. The limited runway length is not sustainable in today's world of airbus+ use. Unless there is radical change,the I give the airport a max of 5 years untill it is a housing/industrial estate

[Planespeaking]

Its about time you realised that SOU is in serious decline,and unlikely that things will change with the current owners and management team. Putting your eggs in one basket i e Flybe years ago has come home to roost. The limited runway length is not sustainable in today's world of airbus+ use. Unless there is radical change,the I give the airport a max of 5 years untill it is a housing/industrial estate

It grieves me to say I have to agree. There seems to be a policy of benign neglect. Unless the runway has a significant increase in length then the number of airlines with equipment able operate commercially from SOU will continue to fall.

This isn't just an overnight change, but a trend that has been going on for sometime. The number of airlines that have jumped ship in the last 18 months must indicate something.

But is there any response from the airport operator other than obfuscation? No.

Perhaps it's wake up and smell the coffee time.

[stewyb]

Its about time you realised that SOU is in serious decline,and unlikely that things will change with the current owners and management team. Putting your eggs in one basket i e Flybe years ago has come home to roost. The limited runway length is not sustainable in today's world of airbus+ use. Unless there is radical change,the I give the airport a max of 5 years untill it is a housing/industrial estate

for once I have to agree!

[Dropoffcharge]

This isn't just an overnight change, but a trend that has been going on for sometime. The number of airlines that have jumped ship in the last 18 months must indicate something.
Exactly that, the aviation industry has changed massively in the last 5yrs or so, unfortunately SOU has not progressed inline with those changes, if something isn't done soon, it will continue to decline.

[davidjohnson6]

Unless there is radical change,the I give the airport a max of 5 years untill it is a housing/industrial estate

I think you're being a bit harsh. Yes, there is decline and something will have to change. However, places like Teesside have been somehow managing to carry on going even with pax number of under 200k per year for about 10 yeas. SOU in 2018 managed about 2m pax. Yes, land values are higher around SOU than MME but with the proximity of the train station and a city on its door step in a fairly prosperous part of the UK, I imagine there's still a fairly good demand for SOU. If Flybe should go bust or Virgin choose to close down a large chunk of SOU operations, I imagine another airline will come in - who that might be I don't know, but I definitely don't see a housing estate in the next 10 years

[Rivet Joint]

I think you're being a bit harsh. Yes, there is decline and something will have to change. However, places like Teesside have been somehow managing to carry on going even with pax number of under 200k per year for about 10 yeas. SOU in 2018 managed about 2m pax. Yes, land values are higher around SOU than MME but with the proximity of the train station and a city on its door step in a fairly prosperous part of the UK, I imagine there's still a fairly good demand for SOU. If Flybe should go bust or Virgin choose to close down a large chunk of SOU operations, I imagine another airline will come in - who that might be I don't know, but I definitely don't see a housing estate in the next 10 years

To all posters do not feed this troll. He has copied and pasted the same post for a few years now. There is no attempt to engage in a debate or acknowledge reasonable thought. If you ignore an irritant it usually goes away.

The aviation industry is universally in a downward trend, even Ryanair are suffering and they are as economical as it gets. It does not take a genius to work out that Virgin will scale Flybe right back to the core trunk routes (until they can use it as a vehicle to feed their bases in MAN and LHR). It seemed like SOU had finally bit the bullet and realised that Investment was needed, and I personally am still reassured by the more concrete evidence that has materialised this year. I do agree that it has gone awfully quiet lately though. SOU will always exist as an airport for one very good reason, people want and need to fly from there (unlike a lot of other airports that have to pay airlines). The market is also very diverse, largest cruise turnaround port in Europe, one of the biggest container terminals, 2 large universites, various military camps near by, biggest oil refinery in the country, biggest city on the south coast etc etc etc. Everyone needs to calm down, the future will be orange as soon as the masterplan is carried out.

[PDXCWL45]

It'll be interesting to see what happens but I genuinely wonder if the future for airports like Southampton will be Loganair?

[kcockayne]

It'll be interesting to see what happens but I genuinely wonder if the future for airports like Southampton will be Loganair?
Has Loganair got a future ? The type of equipment it uses & the routes that it is used on, together with the frantic recent expansion, leads me to question whether the airline has much of a future ! Not that I wish it any harm - far from it.

[RW20]

To all posters do not feed this troll. He has copied and pasted the same post for a few years now. There is no attempt to engage in a debate or acknowledge reasonable thought. If you ignore an irritant it usually goes away.

The aviation industry is universally in a downward trend, even Ryanair are suffering and they are as economical as it gets. It does not take a genius to work out that Virgin will scale Flybe right back to the core trunk routes (until they can use it as a vehicle to feed their bases in MAN and LHR). It seemed like SOU had finally bit the bullet and realised that Investment was needed, and I personally am still reassured by the more concrete evidence that has materialised this year. I do agree that it has gone awfully quiet lately though. SOU will always exist as an airport for one very good reason, people want and need to fly from there (unlike a lot of other airports that have to pay airlines). The market is also very diverse, largest cruise turnaround port in Europe, one of the biggest container terminals, 2 large universites, various military camps near by, biggest oil refinery in the country, biggest city on the south coast etc etc etc. Everyone needs to calm down, the future will be orange as soon as the masterplan is carried out.
Its seems River Joint that you have the same tired reply as per year in year out. I am not a troll, and resent your ongoing attacks.I am however a realistic SOU observer.It is clear to many of the contributors on this thread that SOU has declined over recent years,losing airline after airline,it's potential never being fully realised. This the vital point!,it's potential will not be realised without investment which sadly has not happened,and increasingly looks less likely. However the owners may have other long term plans which might not be avaition minded.

[jensdad]

As an interested observer looking on from a distance of 300 or so miles, who uses the airport every now and again for jaunts to the Channel Islands, I agree that the 'housing estate in 5 years' is a bit extreme. As has been said, if Teesside can keep going then Southampton certainly can. Every time I go through Southampton I'm struggling to get a seat in Costa. Not the most scientific barometer, but last Sunday night I was sitting there with my cortado and sausage sarnie watching a procession of aircraft going to many places in Europe and the UK, including one or two that you can't get to from my local. If you could get to Guernsey from Newcastle I wouldn't have been sitting there. Some perspective is needed. Cheer up, people :)

[kcockayne]

As an interested observer looking on from a distance of 300 or so miles, who uses the airport every now and again for jaunts to the Channel Islands, I agree that the 'housing estate in 5 years' is a bit extreme. As has been said, if Teesside can keep going then Southampton certainly can. Every time I go through Southampton I'm struggling to get a seat in Costa. Not the most scientific barometer, but last Sunday night I was sitting there with my cortado and sausage sarnie watching a procession of aircraft going to many places in Europe and the UK, including one or two that you can't get to from my local. If you could get to Guernsey from Newcastle I wouldn't have been sitting there. Some perspective is needed. Cheer up, people :)
As a Guernseyman, it’s good to see that you are a fan of Guernsey. News that may give you a boost; didn’t I hear that Newcastle to Guernsey will be operated once a week next year. Don’t know which airline, though.

[cobopete]

Loganair propose to operate a Sat service Newcastle Guernsey next summer.

[jensdad]

Yep, I saw that earlier this month. I think it's quite a short season though, and as you say just once a week and probably more pricey. I've got a lot of time for Loganair - I use them to get to my other island hideaway at the other end of the British Isles, but will probably be sticking with flybe for my annual GCI trip next year :)

[Rivet Joint]

Its seems River Joint that you have the same tired reply as per year in year out. I am not a troll, and resent your ongoing attacks.I am however a realistic SOU observer.It is clear to many of the contributors on this thread that SOU has declined over recent years,losing airline after airline,it's potential never being fully realised. This the vital point!,it's potential will not be realised without investment which sadly has not happened,and increasingly looks less likely. However the owners may have other long term plans which might not be avaition minded.

Have you posted a single positive comment on here?

[RW20]

It's difficult to be to positive about SOU these days,the management team can't even solve the climb out issues with trees for 20!
It could be so different if they had acted years ago,but I fear they have long since missed the boat with zero investment.As for your continued insistence that the "Orange brigade" will be in soon,well that's got very little chance of happening with the current political and economic climate, even if and it's a big if that the proposed development happened.Easy have already reduced there SOU ski flights this Winter. If BOU got transport link investment ,then it's game over for SOU.

[SKOJB]

Planning submission due very soon!

[stewyb]

Good to see EZY promotion at the airport and on social media, all very positive even if only for Geneva (at present)!

[TCAS FAN]

Planning submission due very soon!

Presumably you mean "planning application"?

As I've relegated my "reliable source" to something less positive, have you an insight into SOU management to ascertain why the apparent continued delay to tree work at Marhill Copse? As the end result of the work will be months away by the time that the management have got their aviation surveyors in to re-assess the new obstacle environment, submitted results to NATS AIS and a new Type A Chart is produced and published, I would suggest that its going to 31 January+ before airlines are going to be able take advantage of any improvements.

[MARKEYD]

TUI Summer 2020

Looks like the following routes will operate at the moment in the latest update

Tuesday PMI Volotea B 717
Saturday MAH Flybe DHC8

Folowing services have been dropped are Palma on a Sat and IBZ on a Thursday both with Volotea

[RW20]

When is the demise of SOU going to end?
its a disaster!!!

[shamrock7seal]

RW20 can i read into your surprise about this latest news as an indication that actually you believe SOU will be successful in the end and good news is around the corner?

[SKOJB]

Planning application is imminent and all being well will lead to a prosperous future. Hang in there folks!

[MARKEYD]

Little bit of nostalgia yesterday with the last flight of a Flybe 195 ending operations on the sun routes from Palma , Faro , Alicante and Malaga

Not sure how long they have been in operation but have served SOU well and I hope they can be replaced in some form soon

[Aero Mad]

G-FBEA (c/n 19000029) was delivered to Flybe on 3 September 2006. Here's a picture of it at SOU on 13 September 2006

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Flybe-British-European/Embraer-195LR-ERJ-190-200LR/1113609

[shamrock7seal]

We've been hearing about the 'end' of ERJ-195 ops for years... a bit like Brexit

[stewyb]

Rumour has it an announcement next week of BE A220 order. That’s SOU sorted then! 👍

[PDXCWL45]

Rumour has it an announcement next week of BE A220 order. That’s SOU sorted then! 👍
Assuming that they plan to use them from Southampton.

[Dropoffcharge]

Rumour has it an announcement next week of BE A220 order. That’s SOU sorted then! 👍
Lets get real, firstly is no early indication that SOU would receive any of these aircraft (if and when it happened) secondly I'm sure they'd be planned to be utilized out of LHR/MAN instead (this is Virgins main priority afterall) thirdly with pax numbers falling dramatically (100k+ to date this year?) SOU might become the target for the wrong reasons and Virgin's other priority of culling their non profitable routes.