Southampton-2

[Sharklet_321]

All is not lost. The airport is still a 1,781,308 passenger airport which is major for regional airports.

Big gains on Paris in December growing by 18% to 6,908 up from 5,861.
Guernsey also did fantastically well growing over 38% to 11,717 in the month from 8,515 the year before.
Geneva grew too - by 6% despite a slightly lower frequency of flights in December up to 2,753 from 2,608.

Overall the airport handled 118,827 in December, a fall of 17% from the previous year.

[The Nutts Mutts]

The Geneva growth is all coming from easyJet- they averaged 135 pax per flight in December, up from 131 last year and 124 the year before
Flybe on the other hand averaged 48 pax per flight, down from 52 last year and 61 the year before.

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone know if the tree works at Marhill Copse have been completed? I wonder how much of a difference this will make for ops.

[ericlday]

Anyone know if the tree works at Marhill Copse have been completed? I wonder how much of a difference this will make for ops.
A Tree mend us difference......sorry !!!!

[highwideandugly]

Barking up the wrong tree..sorry!

[Asturias56]

have to ash you all to stop this...............

[Jn14:6]

Fir enough.....

[TCAS FAN]

Anyone know if the tree works at Marhill Copse have been completed? I wonder how much of a difference this will make for ops.

Ref my post # 1828 and others related to it, improvement with takeoff weights could be significant, unfortunately the proverbial boat has been missed for S20.

If the tree work has been completed the airport's surveyors need to be called in, re-assess the take-off obstacle environment, compile a revised survey report, submit to NATS AIM who will produce new Type A charts to depict the revised obstacle environment. If the surveyors arrive tomorrow you are probably looking at July+ for the Type A Charts to be published.

[clitenau]

there are certain conditions that I can’t accept.

[RW20]

Care to explain???

[RW20]

Care to explain???
All is quite on the proposed planning permission for the runway,the consultation process ended last month,so what is happening?
It's a political hot potatoe know,so perhaps substantial delays in announcing a decision?

[zantopst]

There is a new 30 day consultancy period up until the end of March

https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2020/02/airport-committee-gets-runway-update/

[Sharklet_321]

All is quite on the proposed planning permission for the runway,the consultation process ended last month,so what is happening?
It's a political hot potatoe know,so perhaps substantial delays in announcing a decision?


Potato or Potatoes never Potatoe

[Gurnard]

All is quite on the proposed planning permission for the runway,the consultation process ended last month,so what is happening?
It's a political hot potatoe know,so perhaps substantial delays in announcing a decision?
As we're pointing things out -
Either quiet or quite [something else]....

[Sharklet_321]

and also Know versus Now

[SWBKCB]

There's actually some interesting points in the article linked at #2013...

[Dropoffcharge]

There's actually some interesting points in the article linked at #2013...

Picking the bones from it, it reads "if you give us our runway extension EBC, we'll give you access to your planned new business park"

[TCAS FAN]

Picking the bones from it, it reads "if you give us our runway extension EBC, we'll give you access to your planned new business park"

Nothing more than EBC approving 1100 new homes at North Stoneham - if you build us a school?

[Rivet Joint]

Picking the bones from it, it reads "if you give us our runway extension EBC, we'll give you access to your planned new business park"

it would be a shame if they waste the land to the north east on yet more large sheds which employ a tiny amount of people. I am amazed SOU are not marketing the land to business aircraft operators and maintenance providers. Thinking big maybe even manufacturers of aircraft although that might be a stretch. There can’t be many pieces of development land that size with direct access to a runway in the UK. This is one of the richest parts of the country after all, and Farnborough has proved that there is insatiable demand for business traffic.

One interesting thing I picked up on the planning portal is that correspondence has been lodged by both BOH and even Bournemouth Council basically asking that their operations are taking into account when deciding whether to give approval. I suppose you cannot blame BOH for protecting their business but it’s a bit rich. Very interesting that Bournemouth Council are that supportive of their local airport that they will even comment on a neighbouring airports planning permission, whilst Southampton Council have objected to their local airport’s planning permission! Whilst the local council has to be seen to be listening to nimbys as they scream the loudest, SOU is teetering on the edge of losing 90%+ of its business and all the jobs it supports without the extension. What a strange world we live in.

[Dropoffcharge]

it would be a shame if they waste the land to the north east on yet more large sheds which employ a tiny amount of people.

SOU is teetering on the edge of losing 90%+ of its business and all the jobs it supports without the extension. What a strange world we live in.

Indeed, surely there are enough of those on the old ford site now due to the fact it all become commercial not a mix of housing as well.

That is the big worry of this whole current situation, if Flybe pull through then all good, if not then the expansion becomes an absolute must for SOU.

[MerchantVenturer]

One interesting thing I picked up on the planning portal is that correspondence has been lodged by both BOH and even Bournemouth Council basically asking that their operations are taking into account when deciding whether to give approval. I suppose you cannot blame BOH for protecting their business but it’s a bit rich..
Both the Welsh Government and the Welsh Government's wholly-owned Cardiff Airport sent letters to North Somerset Unitary Authority regarding Bristol Airport's expansion planning application that was rejected last week by the local authority. Their contention was that the expansion wasn't necessary as CWL could cope with any extra passenger traffic in the Severnside region. BRS is my local airport and I am a user but I see nothing wrong in the WG's or their airport's actions in trying to protect their own interests. The same applies with BOH.

In the 1990s Bristol Airport objected at a planning enquiry to a proposed new city airport at Filton.

[Rivet Joint]

Both the Welsh Government and the Welsh Government's wholly-owned Cardiff Airport sent letters to North Somerset Unitary Authority regarding Bristol Airport's expansion planning application that was rejected last week by the local authority. Their contention was that the expansion wasn't necessary as CWL could cope with any extra passenger traffic in the Severnside region. BRS is my local airport and I am a user but I see nothing wrong in the WG's or their airport's actions in trying to protect their own interests. The same applies with BOH.

In the 1990s Bristol Airport objected at a planning enquiry to a proposed new city airport at Filton.

Interesting to hear. I am sure it’s standard practice to defend their own interest, but BOH has invested around £50 million over the last few years and not got very far as a result. Let’s hope SOU gets the same chance to implement some investment.

[Groundloop]

Interesting to hear. I am sure it’s standard practice to defend their own interest, but BOH has invested around £50 million over the last few years and not got very far as a result. Let’s hope SOU gets the same chance to implement some investment.

A 19% growth in PAX numbers at BOH for 2019 cf 2018 is equal to "not got very far"?

[RW20]

A 19% growth in PAX numbers at BOH for 2019 cf 2018 is equal to "not got very far"?
Groundloop, BOH is on the up and will probably be the regional airport of the South in the next few years. Good investment has paid off.There are contributors on this Southampton blog that are blinkered to how
​​​​bad SOU has been managed in the last 15 years,simply relying on Flybe was so short sighted ,and if it goes down then it will be the demise of Southampton airport. Bournemouth can take up some of the routes that could become available,and expand its routes into Europe. The era of the turboprop is slowly declining.

[rog747]

BOH (which is very convenient, dont get me wrong) great, is on the 'up', but surely in the main, the traffic is seasonal leisure influenced as it always has been since the 60's.
Mostly Summer and Winter sun, SKI flights, Norway Cruises, and a bit of long haul Cruise stuff.
With regards to ethnic/EU worker & associated VFR traffic, the new EU workers immigration status changing may see any such Lo-Co traffic not ever return.
BOH suffers poor road access, no train station, and an erratic slow bus link from town.
The airport is a taxi drivers or car park company's dream, but great to go on your Hols from.

So I cannot see BOH in the future ever being a ''regional'', sorry.

SOU (and EXT for that matter) both have more regional point to point business links, good direct road and motorway access, and SOU has a Railway station just 3 minutes walk from check-in.
That alone is worth a pot of gold surely?
The huge SOU Port cruise ship business does not seem to have been tapped into.
The Cruise lines run door to door luxury coaches from Scotland, Mids and the North direct to the ship side...

So, where has SOU all gone wrong...If Flybe fail then we are looking at a very empty space which is a crying shame.

We all talk of EZYjet doing this and doing that - Maybe they will come into SOU like they did at SEN, and gamble to make SOU a real game changer?

[Sharklet_321]

wonder - if there was no traffic at SOU - (e.g if Flybe were to go under) whether the BOH issue with not being able to support regional services would be alleviated?

It would be better of course for SOU to attract easyJet itself in the likes of BFS, GLA, EDI, INV and ABZ. Perhaps even JER. Definitely AMS and CDG.

[Sharklet_321]

SOU processed 100,912 pax in Jan'20 (down 16%) with a year-to-date total of 1,762,018
Growth on the CDG route of 16% was reassuring to see at over 5,355 pax.

[Wycombe]

One suspects GVA should be well up also, EZY appear to have been operating up to 6 weekly recently.

[stewyb]

One suspects GVA should be well up also, EZY appear to have been operating up to 6 weekly recently.

no, usual frequency and instead a fault with FR24!

[Sharklet_321]

Unfortunately GVA was one of the worst performers, down 25%. Passengers on this route stood at 3,495 in Jan'20 down from 4,645 in Jan'19.

[stewyb]

Unfortunately GVA was one of the worst performers, down 25%. Passengers on this route stood at 3,495 in Jan'20 down from 4,645 in Jan'19.

let’s not forget EZY has cut the Tue departure this year plus I believe BE haven’t reached the numbers of previous years. From what I have heard the EZY loads have been very strong!

[The Nutts Mutts]

EZY had an average of 134 pax per flight in January, up from 121 last year and 117 the year before. As StewyB says they only operate on Sundays and Thursdays this year, apart from a couple of weeks around Christmas and Feb half term when the Tuesday flight is reinstated.
Flybe had an average of 45 pax per flight in January, down from 52 last year and 70 the year before.
So less passengers carried this year, but the numbers appear to be going in the right direction for EZY.

[Planespeaking]

It seems Flybe have finally conceded defeat.

So sorry for all the staff, but where does this leave SOU where 95% of it's commercial movements and pax came from this one airline.

Regrettably the airport lost it's other carriers and was left with just one on life support and now reportedly that has been switched off.

[RW20]

It seems Flybe have finally conceded defeat.

So sorry for all the staff, but where does this leave SOU where 95% of it's commercial movements and pax came from this one airline.

Regrettably the airport lost it's other carriers and was left with just one on life support and now reportedly that has been switched off.

It's curtains for the airport,there's no way the owners will resist the cashpot that the land will make for housing.
It's a tragedy that could so easy have been a success story given airside investment over the years,and certainly the full implementation of the 2005 masterplan.
Good luck to Bournemouth,they take on the regional airport role

[Dropoffcharge]

I'm hoping that some routes can be taken on, even if for a short period, however do feel that the proposed extension plans have now taken a massive hit. EBC will truly be rubbing their hands at the thought of possibly gaining some more land for housing, feel for everyone involved at the airport.

[SotonFlightpath]

A devastating blow for SOU, but I believe the airport will bounce back. It’s worth remembering that the financial problems lay with Flybe, not with most of the routes from Southampton. The ‘core routes’ to Manchester, Edinburgh’ Glasgow, Ireland and the Channel Islands are all exceptionally well-used and profitable, and AMS and CDG perform well too.

There will obviously be a disastrous short-term down-turn with the suspension of these services, but in the medium term these core routes will either return with a similar frequency with a mix of other regional carriers, Aer Lingus Regional, Eastern, Loganair, Blue Islands, Aurigny, KLM, or with easyJet ‘cherry picking’ a few domestic routes offering a couple of services a day. And yes, an A319/A320 can operate on these short routes perfectly well.

The demand is clearly there’ and the market will respond in the appropriate way.

[FrequentlyFlying]

The state of some of these comments! One in particular.
its a sad day/night. These are real people out of work or fearful of it. It isn’t something for glee.
my thoughts are always that if they could get out of historic / legacy contracts then the owner group will pick and create a new airline without the baggage and whatever routes they like.
i expect to see a launch soon of a new virgin et al backed connect airline without any of the debt baggage. Whether they get the routes/slots is another question, but who will be competing? Possibly wait 6-12 months due to the virus outbreak before committing.
the planning application wasn’t good - if it fails it won’t be because of Flybe. On appeal it could still stand a chance - depends if that’s what they want.
hope and best wishes to all at SOU and of course Flybe and associated providers / etc

[stewyb]

A devastating blow for SOU, but I believe the airport will bounce back. It’s worth remembering that the financial problems lay with Flybe, not with most of the routes from Southampton. The ‘core routes’ to Manchester, Edinburgh’ Glasgow, Ireland and the Channel Islands are all exceptionally well-used and profitable, and AMS and CDG perform well too.

There will obviously be a disastrous short-term down-turn with the suspension of these services, but in the medium term these core routes will either return with a similar frequency with a mix of other regional carriers, Aer Lingus Regional, Eastern, Loganair, Blue Islands, Aurigny, KLM, or with easyJet ‘cherry picking’ a few domestic routes offering a couple of services a day. And yes, an A319/A320 can operate on these short routes perfectly well.

The demand is clearly there’ and the market will respond in the appropriate way.

Well said and fully agree, the airport will bounce back even though certain posters are desperate for the airport to fail!

[virginblue]

So tomorrow a.m. there will be a grand total of three scheduled flights?

[Buster the Bear]

Cash flow is King, I wonder how much outstanding debt will be owing to Southampton airport by Flybe?

[Sharklet_321]

For the first time in a long time there are more flights at BOH than there are at SOU today

Pretty sure it will be short lived with attractive core routes just waiting to be filled Once COVID-19 is out of the way

[adfly]

Very tough day for all those at Flybe and Southampton. I wish the staff all the very best and hope they can find future employment fairly easily (in spite of it being a nasty time for the industry). Had some good flights with them over the years.

[SOU_]

Ideally now or as soon as possible is the best time to get the extension done to try and attract someone in. It’s going to cause the least disruption too

[SWBKCB]

For the first time in a long time there are more flights at BOH than there are at SOU today

Is that right? 6 departures from BOH, seem to be more than that from SOU - SI, GR, T3, EZS?

[PDXCWL45]

Is that right? 6 departures from BOH, seem to be more than that from SOU - SI, GR, T3, EZS?
13 from SOU 7 from BOH

[Wycombe]

seem to be more than that from SOU - SI, GR, T3, EZS

Indeed, that must be around 14-15 deps all told. Some people way too quick to hit the inappropriate gloat button :-(

[rog747]

Why the SOU v BOH willy waving? LOL

Not that long ago BOH had only a few flights a week!

Sorry to see Flybe go but I reckon others will step in PDQ to take on some flights....

[Sharklet_321]

Yes I forgot about Eastern to LBA (3 daily?) and the Blue Islands GCI flights

LBA 3 daily
JER 3 daily
GCI 6 daily
ACI 2 daily

Roughly 1,800 seats perhaps 1,160 passengers for today

[SWBKCB]

Yes I forgot about Eastern to LBA (3 daily?) and the Blue Islands GCI flights

LBA 3 daily
JER 3 daily
GCI 6 daily
ACI 2 daily

Roughly 1,800 seats perhaps 1,160 passengers for today

And the easyJet to GVA...

[SotonFlightpath]

And Teeside twice daily from next Monday.

[Sharklet_321]

So 2,160 seats or 1,460 pax for today versus what would usually be 4,000-5,000 pax?

I am not sure how the likes of SWISSPORT can cope with something like this?

[Knife-Edge]

Hopefully a LCC will jump on the Scottish routes. EJ could operate from SOU but if Ryanair go for it it will be BOH.

[Auxtank]

So the runway ext actually becomes more necessary with those aircraft types possibly inbound.

[Jonathan Roberts]

A devastating blow for SOU, but I believe the airport will bounce back. It’s worth remembering that the financial problems lay with Flybe, not with most of the routes from Southampton. The ‘core routes’ to Manchester, Edinburgh’ Glasgow, Ireland and the Channel Islands are all exceptionally well-used and profitable, and AMS and CDG perform well too.

There will obviously be a disastrous short-term down-turn with the suspension of these services, but in the medium term these core routes will either return with a similar frequency with a mix of other regional carriers, Aer Lingus Regional, Eastern, Loganair, Blue Islands, Aurigny, KLM, or with easyJet ‘cherry picking’ a few domestic routes offering a couple of services a day. And yes, an A319/A320 can operate on these short routes perfectly well.

The demand is clearly there’ and the market will respond in the appropriate way.

While the new owners of Flybe are not blameless, for example when they left DA, their reply to the outrage , was " we will continue key routes but stuck to one aircraft type based at Belfast " ( words to that effect ).
But they didn't Stick to just the Dash 8, they had ageing ' E175/190/195, ATR, Dash 8, and perhaps someone can confirm some smaller props to serve Highland and islands destinations.
It's not so long ago up in Donegal they where operating to Glasgow and I think Manchester .

But back to the point , it cannot have bee. Easy or cheap to maintain such a mixed fleet .
Also they fro. DSA operated to Palma and Alicante , now the big operations like TUI and Easyjet might have afforded the landing slots again that was a. Ost that had they have concentrated on Dash8/ Domestic routes only ( With DUB/AMS/CDG) ,and anything in reasonable range that would be a sure bet to fill such an air raft .

Ought to have saved their bacon, but I blame Govt for not getting rid of APD as well, it's killed too many airlines ( or been a factor ) , even looking at FR24 today is strange seeing only EZY/RYR and a few foreign airlines about .
Surely the GOVT can step in and Nationalise them?, The service they provide re lifeline services in some regions .and the economy already hit byBrexit and Covid19 can it take another shocker.

Southampton is hellish as it took all the cruise flight routes . I just feel so very sorry for the good decent people on the ' coal face ' who worked at Flybe and up and down the supply chain, who are suddenly on the scrap heap .
Again time Govt steps in,and BA was originally a nationalised airline so it's not as if they haven't done it before.

[P330]

And Teeside twice daily from next Monday.

I believe the Teesside flight will run 1 flight a day for 6 days xSat starting Monday.

[LBIA]

Eastern Airways just positioned there Embraer 170, G-CIXW into Leeds from Humberside, It is increasing capacity onto the Leeds - Southampton route this afternoon instead of using the usual BAe Jetstream 41

[BAladdy]

LM have released for sale flights to replace BE’s services to EDI, GLA and NCL

Edinburgh - Up to 4 x Daily ATR72 begins 15th June

Glasgow - Up to 3 x Daily ERJ begins 30th March. Frequency and Capacity increases from 6th July when flights increase to 4 x daily operated by AT72

Newcastle - Up to 3 x Daily ERJ begins 23rd March

ERJ = 49 seat ER4 or 37 seat ER3

[The Nutts Mutts]

Well, it's a good start. Really keen to see SOU retain its connectivity. I'm realistic that the BE French leisure routes are probably gone for good, but if the airport can find airlines to come in on BHD/BFS, DUB, AMS, CDG and maybe MAN then they can replicate the core Flybe route network as a solid platform to go forward from and begin the post-Flybe rebuilding process.

[rog747]

What about CDG Paris? twas an AF code share....

[Wycombe]

Edinburgh - Up to 4 x Daily ATR72 begins 15th June

That's a bit of a time to wait for an EDI route, but I appreciate that aircraft and people to operate them don't grow on trees.

You'd like to think that KLM will come into the frame again on AMS, and maybe EIR on DUB?

[rog747]

Flybe was doing a summer IT charter series for TUI Holidays to Menorca, and Inghams to Verona with the Q400's -
I see that those have has gone off the SOU destinations list :(

The map looks very sad.............https://www.southamptonairport.com/destinations/

[LBIA]

Looks like Eastern Airways are to open ex flybe operated routes from Southampton to Newcastle and Manchester

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/eastern-airways-to-operate-independently-after-flybe-demise-21596

[virginblue]

Flybe was doing a summer IT charter series for TUI Holidays to Menorca, and Inghams to Verona with the Q400's -
I see that those have has gone off the SOU destinations list :(

The map looks very sad.............https://www.southamptonairport.com/destinations/

That's a novel approach to camouflage the challenges they are facing:Departures & arrivalsArrival and departure information is currently unavailable

[rog747]

On tele now - Sky news - SOU terminal is a ghost town :(

Am sure some other carriers will come in fairly quickly - fingers crossed

[fjencl]

Looks like Eastern Airways are to open ex flybe operated routes from Southampton to Newcastle and Manchester

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/eastern-airways-to-operate-independently-after-flybe-demise-21596

That's interesting as Loganair will operate Newcastle - Southampton 3 times a day from 23rd March...........they must be operating head to head again on the route.

[rhutch28]

That's interesting as Loganair will operate Newcastle - Southampton 3 times a day from 23rd March...........they must be operating head to head again on the route.

Looks like they will be both be operating Birmingham - Aberdeen route as well

[rog747]

Official on Sky TV - Mr. MOL from FR states on TV we will not go to SOU as our aircraft are too big...

[Sharklet_321]

Surprised Ryanair haven't started a BOH-BFS route.

Aer Lingus Regional would be a dream on the SOU-DUB route - really hope that materialises.

[RW20]

Surprised Ryanair haven't started a BOH-BFS route.

Aer Lingus Regional would be a dream on the SOU-DUB route - really hope that materialises.
It certainly would,but on Sky and BBC, Managers of airports like Belfast,Cardiff,Aberdeen ,who were quoted as being seriously effected by Flybe demise were interviewed,but seeds ​​​​​was the Southampton manager?
He was spotted on Skys Ryanair question time that said that there aircraft was to big to operate into SOU,yes this is true and has been a major issue for the airport for years,but there was no informative answer from the airport manager,he looked like a rabbit in headlights!
Simply the SOU management has lost a whole load of airlines in the last few years,we need a change of personnel,Get this in position,push for the runway extension and we may expand and regain the likes of KLM,Air Lingus,and others!

[SotonFlightpath]

A terrible time for SOU, but let’s look at today’s positives. We have the new Teeside services commencing next week, and over the next few weeks services will recommence multiple times daily to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Newcastle.

I’m sure several others will follow in due course, but it must be remembered that some of SOU’s destination airports are slot constricted, and it could well be the case at the moment that trying to re-establish links to the likes of DUB and AMS would probably necessitate ‘night stopping’ an aircraft by the likes of KLM or Aer Lingus Regional to enable them to operate in the slots formerly used by Flybe. This would severely impact the profitability of such services. However, I’m sure that these services and others will return in the fullness of time.

Today has delivered much better news than I anticipated regarding the re-instatement of routes and services by Eastern and Loganair, and I’m sure further good news will materialise over the coming weeks.

One has to be realistic and accept that even if Flybe’s finances had been in the rudest of health, there would still likely have been some retrenchment and consolidation due to the reluctance of people to fly during the current Coronavirus emergency.

We must all hope that the people affected by the collapse of Flybe - their wonderful staff, soon get back on their feet.

But, the tide has already turned at SOU and we must now think ‘onwards and upwards’.

[Buster the Bear]

Would Stobart have the cash to increase services after losing a £50m gamble on Virgin Connect? That debt has to be repaid!

[Auxtank]

Would Stobart have the cash to increase services after losing a £50m gamble on Virgin Connect? That debt has to be repaid!

I would say that concludes Stobart's foray in to aviation. A shame, but there it is.

[TartinTon]

Anyone who thinks that large slugs of cash were changing hands into Flybe is deluded. The "millions" pumped into Flybe were, for Stobart at least, the aircraft and airline assets into Connect. I'd be amazed if even £10m of actual cash changed hands.

[LTNman]

The Southampton flight departure and arrivals board is still off-line. Burying bad news for a few months?

[DC3 Dave]

I would say that concludes Stobart's foray in to aviation. A shame, but there it is.

I doubt it. Maybe no franchise operation but they are experienced ACMI operators and this area may well grow.

[brian_dromey]

I doubt it. Maybe no franchise operation but they are experienced ACMI operators and this area may well grow.

They still have the Stobart Air operation which operates for EI and the E-190s. They also took 3 flyBe E195s, which are now at Grate Dane. I don't know if Stobart/Propius are still involved with these frames or not. They seem to have three of the ex SAS/flyBe ATRs. I would not be surprised if Stobart continues to operate SEN and IOM routes, as they were at STK risk anyway, the branding is the issue, of course. I guess they could use EI systems, if they don't retain any booking hardware.

[DC3 Dave]

I would say that concludes Stobart's foray in to aviation. A shame, but there it is.

Stobart has deployed an Embraer E190, EI-GHK on Aer Lingus Regional routes today. The aircraft was until yesterday (4th March) operating for Flybe.

Posted this morning by Just a Spotter on the Aer Lingus thread.

[EXEL1966]

Loganair flights to/from GLA are now available to book online with flights from 30/03.

[stewyb]

Core routes left to fill are Belfast, Dublin, Paris & Amsterdam. Which airlines will grab what?

[RW20]

Core routes left to fill are Belfast, Dublin, Paris & Amsterdam. Which airlines will grab what?
no one at the moment!,as Coronavirus develops most airlines are going to contract,the routes just covered by Loganair and Eastern are good earners that commuters need,the routes you have quoted will be filled in the long run,but this could be open ended if the virus continues to develop at its fast pace.Certainly there are few UK airlines who have the capacity ( discount Easy and Ryanair who will not come to SOU without runway extension) that could support your quoted destinations.
So it's survival for SOU only in the short time,the future still is very uncertain.

[darren1]

Unfortunately a lot of scaremongering about a strain of flu. Too much BS regarding this.

[adfly]

Such a shock to see a so well established part of aviation in Southampton go. Have had a look over some of the routes flown by them over the years, and it is quite a list (I am aware some were served by Blue Islands/Eastern as franchises at times). Fingers crossed by S21 there is another carrier basing a few aircraft in SOU, hopefully departing from the freshly extended runway...

Austria

Innsbruck (2013-2014)
Salzburg (2005-2017)

Belgium

Brussels (2007-2012)

Croatia

Dubrovnik (2009-2010)
Split (2009-2010)

France

Angers (2006)
Avignon (2006-2019)
Bastia (2015-2019)
Bergerac (2003-2020)
Beziers (2011-2013)
Biarritz (2016-2019)
Brest (2005-2020)
Bordeaux (2005-2006, 2008-2019)
Chambery (2005-2020)
Cherbourg (2005-2008)
Clermont-Ferrand (2011-2014)
Grenoble (2013-2015)
La Rochelle (2005-2019)
Limoges (2005-2020)
Lyon (2016-2018)
Nantes (2012-2019)
Nice (2007-2014)
Paris CDG (2007-2011, 2016-2020)
Paris Orly (2011-2017)
Pau (2011-2012)
Perpignan (2005-2019)
Rennes (2005-2019)
Rodez (2018)
Toulon (2016-2019)
Toulouse (2004-2005)
Tours (2012)

Germany

Dusseldorf (2006-2013, 2015-2019)
Frankfurt (2007-2012)
Hanover (2006-2014)
Munich (2016-2017)

Italy

Milan Bergamo (2004-2005)
Milan Malpensa (2015)
Verona (2010-2019)

Netherlands

Amsterdam (2006-2020)

Portugal

Faro (2006-2019)

Republic of Ireland

Dublin (2003-2020)
Galway (2006-2008)

Spain

Alicante (2004-2019)
Barcelona (2013)
Ibiza (2004-2005)
Malaga (2004-2019)
Murcia (2005-2008)
Palma (2005-2019)

Switzerland

Berne (2005-2012)
Geneva (2003-2020)

United Kingdom

Aberdeen (2008-2010, 2017-2019)
Belfast City (2003-2020)
East Midlands (2017)
Edinburgh (2004-2020)
Exeter (2017)
Glasgow (2004-2020)
Guernsey (2004-2020)
Inverness (2008-2013)
Isle of Man (2007-2013)
Jersey (2003-2020)
Leeds Bradford (2005-2019)
Liverpool (2005-2008)
Manchester (2005-2020)
Newcastle (2005-2020)
Newquay (2008)

I count 64 destinations in 12 countries, which is quite a few more than I guessed it was and a rather remarkable 26 in France!


Shortest route: Southampton - Cherbourg at 90mi/78nmi
Longest route: Southampton - Dubrovnik at 1092mi/949nmi


Longest served routes (all served continuously for nearly 17 years)

Southampton - Belfast City
Southampton - Bergerac
Southampton - Dublin
Southampton - Geneva (became a seasonal ski route after the first few years)
Southampton - Jersey


http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=sou-inn,+sou-szg,+sou-bru,+sou-dbv,+sou-spu,+sou-ane,+sou-avn,+sou-bia,+sou-egc,+sou-bzr,+sou-biq,+sou-bes,+sou-bod,+sou-cmf,+sou-cer,+sou-cfe,+sou-gnb,+sou-lrh,+sou-lig,+sou-lys,+sou-nte,+sou-nce,+sou-cdg,+sou-ory,+sou-puf,+sou-rns,+sou-tln,+sou-tls,+sou-tuf,+sou-pgf,+sou-dus,+sou-fra,+sou-haj,+sou-muc,+sou-bgy,+sou-mxp,+sou-vrn,+sou-ams,+sou-fao,+sou-dub,+sou-gwy,+sou-alc,+sou-bcn,+sou-ibz,+sou-agp,+sou-mjv,+sou-pmi,+sou-brn,+sou-gva,+sou-abz,+sou-bhd,+sou-ema,+sou-edi,+sou-ext,+sou-gla,+sou-gci,+sou-inv,+sou-iom,+sou-jer,+sou-lba,+sou-lpl,+sou-man,+sou-ncl,+sou-nqy&MS=bm&MR=240&MX=540x540&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sou-inn%2C+sou-szg%2C+sou-bru%2C+sou-dbv%2C+sou-spu%2C+sou-ane%2C+sou-avn%2C+sou-bia%2C+sou-egc%2C+sou-bzr%2C+sou-biq%2C+sou-bes%2C+sou-bod%2C+sou-cmf%2C+sou-cer%2C+sou-cfe%2C+sou-gnb%2C+sou-lrh%2C+sou-lig%2C+sou-lys%2C+sou-nte%2C+sou-nce%2C+sou-cdg%2C+sou-ory%2C+sou-puf%2C+sou-rns%2C+sou-tln%2C+sou-tls%2C+sou-tuf%2C+sou-pgf%2C+sou-dus%2C+sou-fra%2C+sou-haj%2C+sou-muc%2C+sou-bgy%2C+sou-mxp%2C+sou-vrn%2C+sou-ams%2C+sou-fao%2C+sou-dub%2C+sou-gwy%2C+sou-alc%2C+sou-bcn%2C+sou-ibz%2C+sou-agp%2C+sou-mjv%2C+sou-pmi%2C+sou-brn%2C+sou-gva%2C+sou-abz%2C+sou-bhd%2C+sou-ema%2C+sou-edi%2C+sou-ext%2C+sou-gla%2C+sou-gci%2C+sou-inv%2C+sou-iom%2C+sou-jer%2C+sou-lba%2C+sou-lpl%2C+sou-man%2C+sou-ncl%2C+sou-nqy&MS=bm&DU=nm

[Sotonsean]

Alghero in Italy was also served by Flybe from Southampton albeit a charter flight on behalf of a tour operator which I can't remember the name of.

Prague in the Czech Republic was also briefly served by Flybe from Southampton in 2001/2002.

[Sotonsean]

Besides the former Flybe routes ex Southampton the airport has seen several other airlines and routes disappear over the course of the last decade or two including the following scheduled airlines and destinations.

Aer Lingus...Cork
Air Berlin... Paderborn
Air France... Paris CDG, Paris Orly
BMI Regional... Munich
​​​​​KLM... Amsterdam
VLM... Antwerp, Brussels
Volotea... Ibiza, Palma
Vueling... Barcelona

I haven't included the former British Airways City Flyer destinations as they were replaced by Flybe.

Plus in the past Southampton Airport had the IT charters to the following destinations operated by the likes of Air Europa, Air Malta, BH Air, Euro Atlantic Airways, Iberoworld, Oasis, Spanair, Transeuropa, TUI (Britannia Airways and Thomson), Volotea.

Alicante
Faro
Ibiza
Malaga
Malta
Menorca
Palma
Tenerife
Varna

It's amazing really that Southampton Airport have certainly lost alot of airlines and destinations over the years.

[adfly]

Eastern have opened up their booking engine and appear to be loading the new flights.

Manchester - Starts Thurs 11/03 at 5 weekly (Mon-Fri) with the aircraft down as a '100' - leased Fokker 100? Schedule suggests a Southampton based aircraft and that it will be 11 weekly (2x Mon-Fri + 1x Sun) so flights may not be fully loaded yet.
Newcastle - Starts Mon 16/03, appears to be 11 weekly on a based E145. Another booking quirk on this one where only one southbound flight per day appears bookable at the moment.

Good to see them pick up these routes at such short notice, even if it is a large capacity drop (although NCL will be very nicely served once Loganair start as well - similar capacity to before but more flights to choose from). Hopefully they will have been/or getting into contact with some of the former Flybe staff to crew them.

[RW20]

Besides the former Flybe routes ex Southampton the airport has seen several other airlines and routes disappear over the course of the last decade or two including the following scheduled airlines and destinations.

Aer Lingus...Cork
Air Berlin... Paderborn
Air France... Paris CDG, Paris Orly
BMI Regional... Munich
​​​​​KLM... Amsterdam
VLM... Antwerp, Brussels
Volotea... Ibiza, Palma
Vueling... Barcelona

I haven't included the former British Airways City Flyer destinations as they were replaced by Flybe.

Plus in the past Southampton Airport had the IT charters to the following destinations operated by the likes of Air Europa, Air Malta, BH Air, Euro Atlantic Airways, Iberoworld, Oasis, Spanair, Transeuropa, TUI (Britannia Airways and Thomson), Volotea.

Alicante
Faro
Ibiza
Malaga
Malta
Menorca
Palma
Tenerife
Varna

It's amazing really that Southampton Airport have certainly lost alot of airlines and destinations over the years.

it just underlines what potential SOU had,but sadly the owners and management failed to develop the airport into what it should have been i.e the south's regional airport.
alas this has all gone now,and I believe the airport might regain some of the lost routes,but without the runway capacity it's going to be only a few.
PAX numbers will probably be behind Bournemouth for the first time in a lot of years.How things change!

[Rivet Joint]

Such a shock to see a so well established part of aviation in Southampton go. Have had a look over some of the routes flown by them over the years, and it is quite a list (I am aware some were served by Blue Islands/Eastern as franchises at times). Fingers crossed by S21 there is another carrier basing a few aircraft in SOU, hopefully departing from the freshly extended runway...

Austria

Innsbruck (2013-2014)
Salzburg (2005-2017)

Belgium

Brussels (2007-2012)

Croatia

Dubrovnik (2009-2010)
Split (2009-2010)

France

Angers (2006)
Avignon (2006-2019)
Bastia (2015-2019)
Bergerac (2003-2020)
Beziers (2011-2013)
Biarritz (2016-2019)
Brest (2005-2020)
Bordeaux (2005-2006, 2008-2019)
Chambery (2005-2020)
Cherbourg (2005-2008)
Clermont-Ferrand (2011-2014)
Grenoble (2013-2015)
La Rochelle (2005-2019)
Limoges (2005-2020)
Lyon (2016-2018)
Nantes (2012-2019)
Nice (2007-2014)
Paris CDG (2007-2011, 2016-2020)
Paris Orly (2011-2017)
Pau (2011-2012)
Perpignan (2005-2019)
Rennes (2005-2019)
Rodez (2018)
Toulon (2016-2019)
Toulouse (2004-2005)
Tours (2012)

Germany

Dusseldorf (2006-2013, 2015-2019)
Frankfurt (2007-2012)
Hanover (2006-2014)
Munich (2016-2017)

Italy

Milan Bergamo (2004-2005)
Milan Malpensa (2015)
Verona (2010-2019)

Netherlands

Amsterdam (2006-2020)

Portugal

Faro (2006-2019)

Republic of Ireland

Dublin (2003-2020)
Galway (2006-2008)

Spain

Alicante (2004-2019)
Barcelona (2013)
Ibiza (2004-2005)
Malaga (2004-2019)
Murcia (2005-2008)
Palma (2005-2019)

Switzerland

Berne (2005-2012)
Geneva (2003-2020)

United Kingdom

Aberdeen (2008-2010, 2017-2019)
Belfast City (2003-2020)
East Midlands (2017)
Edinburgh (2004-2020)
Exeter (2017)
Glasgow (2004-2020)
Guernsey (2004-2020)
Inverness (2008-2013)
Isle of Man (2007-2013)
Jersey (2003-2020)
Leeds Bradford (2005-2019)
Liverpool (2005-2008)
Manchester (2005-2020)
Newcastle (2005-2020)
Newquay (2008)

I count 64 destinations in 12 countries, which is quite a few more than I guessed it was and a rather remarkable 26 in France!


Shortest route: Southampton - Cherbourg at 90mi/78nmi
Longest route: Southampton - Dubrovnik at 1092mi/949nmi


Longest served routes (all served continuously for nearly 17 years)

Southampton - Belfast City
Southampton - Bergerac
Southampton - Dublin
Southampton - Geneva (became a seasonal ski route after the first few years)
Southampton - Jersey


http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=sou-inn,+sou-szg,+sou-bru,+sou-dbv,+sou-spu,+sou-ane,+sou-avn,+sou-bia,+sou-egc,+sou-bzr,+sou-biq,+sou-bes,+sou-bod,+sou-cmf,+sou-cer,+sou-cfe,+sou-gnb,+sou-lrh,+sou-lig,+sou-lys,+sou-nte,+sou-nce,+sou-cdg,+sou-ory,+sou-puf,+sou-rns,+sou-tln,+sou-tls,+sou-tuf,+sou-pgf,+sou-dus,+sou-fra,+sou-haj,+sou-muc,+sou-bgy,+sou-mxp,+sou-vrn,+sou-ams,+sou-fao,+sou-dub,+sou-gwy,+sou-alc,+sou-bcn,+sou-ibz,+sou-agp,+sou-mjv,+sou-pmi,+sou-brn,+sou-gva,+sou-abz,+sou-bhd,+sou-ema,+sou-edi,+sou-ext,+sou-gla,+sou-gci,+sou-inv,+sou-iom,+sou-jer,+sou-lba,+sou-lpl,+sou-man,+sou-ncl,+sou-nqy&MS=bm&MR=240&MX=540x540&PM=*
Great Circle Mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sou-inn%2C+sou-szg%2C+sou-bru%2C+sou-dbv%2C+sou-spu%2C+sou-ane%2C+sou-avn%2C+sou-bia%2C+sou-egc%2C+sou-bzr%2C+sou-biq%2C+sou-bes%2C+sou-bod%2C+sou-cmf%2C+sou-cer%2C+sou-cfe%2C+sou-gnb%2C+sou-lrh%2C+sou-lig%2C+sou-lys%2C+sou-nte%2C+sou-nce%2C+sou-cdg%2C+sou-ory%2C+sou-puf%2C+sou-rns%2C+sou-tln%2C+sou-tls%2C+sou-tuf%2C+sou-pgf%2C+sou-dus%2C+sou-fra%2C+sou-haj%2C+sou-muc%2C+sou-bgy%2C+sou-mxp%2C+sou-vrn%2C+sou-ams%2C+sou-fao%2C+sou-dub%2C+sou-gwy%2C+sou-alc%2C+sou-bcn%2C+sou-ibz%2C+sou-agp%2C+sou-mjv%2C+sou-pmi%2C+sou-brn%2C+sou-gva%2C+sou-abz%2C+sou-bhd%2C+sou-ema%2C+sou-edi%2C+sou-ext%2C+sou-gla%2C+sou-gci%2C+sou-inv%2C+sou-iom%2C+sou-jer%2C+sou-lba%2C+sou-lpl%2C+sou-man%2C+sou-ncl%2C+sou-nqy&MS=bm&DU=nm)

Great post, had forgotten about half of these routes. I'm sure some of these could return if they were served by a low cost operator (yes investment dependent).

Some interesting comments in the below article from LM's chief exec on SOU. I have picked out the following: -

“We’ll probably see some announcements from other airlines over the next couple of weeks,”

"Within six months, probably 80 per cent will be filled again with somebody. About 20 per cent probably shouldn’t be.”

“We’re very, very supportive of the runway upgrade project in Southampton because actually, to be able to operate all types of aircraft in Loganair’s fleet, this runway is quite limited,”

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18288523.southampton-airport-bright-future-says-loganair-chief-executive/

Interesting that even LM's small planes cannot operate fully from SOU's runway. I hope SOU are flagging up comments like this and the one from FR to the local authority, and pilling the pressure on them. It is good that operators are picking up routes, but without basing aircraft, the level of local employment is never going to recover. You would hope that employment concerns would outweigh the environmental argument (although legislation might mean their hands are tied). As things stand, I cannot see any of the regional operators ever opening a base at SOU, only one of the low cost operators, and that's only IF the improvements are ever allowed.

[SWBKCB]

it just underlines what potential SOU had,but sadly the owners and management failed to develop the airport into what it should have been i.e the south's regional airport

Doesn't the range of range of operators and routes suggest it isn't just the management? It's airlines that start and stop routes - not airport operators.

Interesting that even LM's small planes cannot operate fully from SOU's runway.

The 145's are ex BMI Regional, and some ex BA Connect, so nowt new!

[fjencl]

Eastern have opened up their booking engine and appear to be loading the new flights.

Manchester - Starts Thurs 11/03 at 5 weekly (Mon-Fri) with the aircraft down as a '100' - leased Fokker 100? Schedule suggests a Southampton based aircraft and that it will be 11 weekly (2x Mon-Fri + 1x Sun) so flights may not be fully loaded yet.
Newcastle - Starts Mon 16/03, appears to be 11 weekly on a based E145. Another booking quirk on this one where only one southbound flight per day appears bookable at the moment.

Good to see them pick up these routes at such short notice, even if it is a large capacity drop (although NCL will be very nicely served once Loganair start as well - similar capacity to before but more flights to choose from). Hopefully they will have been/or getting into contact with some of the former Flybe staff to crew them.
Somebody said its the EJET 170 as its designated as 100LR.....for your info

[rog747]

Alghero in Italy was also served by Flybe from Southampton albeit a charter flight on behalf of a tour operator which I can't remember the name of.
Prague in the Czech Republic was also briefly served by Flybe from Southampton in 2001/2002.

Also planned Flybe weekly charter series from SOU was Mahon Menorca on Sat for TUI and Verona Weds and Sats for Inghams

[Asturias56]

"You would hope that employment concerns would outweigh the environmental argument "

not if you are a Green

[The Nutts Mutts]

On the SOU twitter feed someone has just asked about routes to AMS and DUB, and the response they got was "watch this space, more announcements to come..."
Sounds promising.

[Irish Cream]

As much as I am excited to hear about Loganair and Eastern filling the gaps I am alarmed at the speed and frequency of gap filling. Let’s not forget that Flybe was a hybrid semi low fare regional. Loganair and Eastern are not. Their fares will be higher so the passenger volumes will be smaller. I expect either much much lower load factors or a reduction in frequency in time.

To have SOU to NCL/MME region at 8 daily flights is ludicrous. I want sustainability not fireworks that fizzle out after a year.

[Ejet1993]

As much as I am excited to hear about Loganair and Eastern filling the gaps I am alarmed at the speed and frequency of gap filling. Let’s not forget that Flybe was a hybrid semi low fare regional. Loganair and Eastern are not. Their fares will be higher so the passenger volumes will be smaller. I expect either much much lower load factors or a reduction in frequency in time.

To have SOU to NCL/MME region at 8 daily flights is ludicrous. I want sustainability not fireworks that fizzle out after a year.


The prices are very reasonable! Flybe charged £35 for so many bags, Loganair and T3 include a bag and onboard drink and snack. T3 are charging £96 return at the moment for Manchester, which is pretty good! Plus it's a e170, not a prop. Pax prefer that.

[Copenhagen]

Dublin was launched in 1997 I believe - on a BA -con 145 twice daily

[Sotonsean]

Also planned Flybe weekly charter series from SOU was Mahon Menorca on Sat for TUI and Verona Weds and Sats for Inghams

I didn't add Mahon or Verona as you had already mentioned those two destinations in one of your previous posts.

Mahon was indeed a planned weekly charter flight by Flybe to be operated on behalf of TUI.

Adfly had already listed Verona as one of the former scheduled Flybe routes ex Southampton that's why I hadn't listed it.

Although Verona was being used by Inghams it was also a Flybe scheduled destination open to the public on their website for booking unlike the Mahon flight which was purely a charter flight to be operated behalf of TUI.

[Atlantic Explorer]

The prices are very reasonable! Flybe charged £35 for so many bags, Loganair and T3 include a bag and onboard drink and snack. T3 are charging £96 return at the moment for Manchester, which is pretty good! Plus it's a e170, not a prop. Pax prefer that. Fares that low for a flight on a 170 will not last, it’s simply not sustainable. Eastern's fares have always been high, and with the smaller capacity, they need to be to stand any chance of covering costs. Anyone who says they can put a 170 on the route and charge cheap fares is deluded!

There is far too much capacity on the NCL/ MME route and something will have to change to see any longevity on these routes.

[SWBKCB]

Fares that low for a flight on a 170 will not last, it’s simply not sustainable. Eastern's fares have always been high, and with the smaller capacity, they need to be to stand any chance of covering costs. Anyone who says they can put a 170 on the route and charge cheap fares is deluded!

There is far too much capacity on the NCL/ MME route and something will have to change to see any longevity on these routes.

Can't win can they? It's usually "rip-off Eastern". If you look at the booking engine, there's are only a limited number of fares at the entry level before before they increase. Doubt whether they're paying much for the a/c - it's been sitting idle for the best part of the year, so let's see how it goes.

I agree about NCL/MME (and LBA). There'll be a shake out there.

[Sotonsean]

Fares that low for a flight on a 170 will not last, it’s simply not sustainable. Eastern's fares have always been high, and with the smaller capacity, they need to be to stand any chance of covering costs. Anyone who says they can put a 170 on the route and charge cheap fares is deluded!

There is far too much capacity on the NCL/ MME route and something will have to change to see any longevity on these routes.

Exactly with Loganair already confirmed for NCL to SOU and with Eastern Airways commencing MME tomorrow the 09 March 2020 you would have thought that Belfast would have been a better option for the airline considering that no other airline has picked it up yet.

Surely Belfast is as much of a key route from Southampton as Newcastle is and I'm very surprised that it wasn't one of first destinations to be announced by either Eastern Airways or Loganair.

With Southampton Airport having to wait until June for Loganair to resume a flight to Edinburgh I wonder how long it will take before either of them announce Belfast.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Can't win can they? It's usually "rip-off Eastern". If you look at the booking engine, there's are only a limited number of fares at the entry level before before they increase. Doubt whether they're paying much for the a/c - it's been sitting idle for the best part of the year, so let's see how it goes.

I agree about NCL/MME (and LBA). There'll be a shake out there.

Well to be fair to Eastern, their prices are one of the main reasons they never made an operating loss and remained in business for many many years, until relatively recently. Unless your EasyJet or Ryanair operating high volumes, then you can’t charge cheap fares and remain as a viable business.

Eastern’s problem now, having lost the IAC contract, is they have lost a huge amount of revenue from the business which has been the main revenue earner since they took over the IAC contract in 2008 (I think it was?) that void has to be filled somehow. I’m just not convinced that UK domestic is going to be the answer.

[adfly]

According to this article, Eastern are planning on selling 1 stop tickets to Aberdeen from 27/04, and intend to base up to 5 aircraft at Southampton.

There's also claim that the new routes are to increase to up to 4 daily over the coming weeks.

https://www.southamptonairport.com/news/news-press/eastern-airways-fights-now-on-sale-and-bookable/

[Irish Cream]

This is very good news indeed.

I wonder whether this means they will assume the codeshares with KL and AF to fly to CDG and AMS? Or perhaps BHD?

[adfly]

Eastern are now starting Newcastle tomorrow (11/03) rather than next Monday (16/03).

Loganair are also starting a 4 weekly SOU-NCL-ABZ route (Mon - Thurs) from 23/03 as a part of the Newcastle service. The article suggests that a fair amount of SOU-ABZ traffic used the Flybe domestic hub in Manchester.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/361725/loganair-adds-new-southampton-scotland-service

[stewyb]

Eastern are now starting Newcastle tomorrow (11/03) rather than next Monday (16/03).

Loganair are also starting a 4 weekly SOU-NCL-ABZ route (Mon - Thurs) from 23/03 as a part of the Newcastle service. The article suggests that a fair amount of SOU-ABZ traffic used the Flybe domestic hub in Manchester.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/361725/loganair-adds-new-southampton-scotland-service

The airport has done a good job in backfilling a number of core routes so quickly. Eastern’s E70 re-positioned to SOU this evening ready to commence Manchester in the morning. Tomorrow will look much healthier with 20 departures and hopefully more to follow!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Eastern are now starting Newcastle tomorrow (11/03) rather than next Monday (16/03).

Loganair are also starting a 4 weekly SOU-NCL-ABZ route (Mon - Thurs) from 23/03 as a part of the Newcastle service. The article suggests that a fair amount of SOU-ABZ traffic used the Flybe domestic hub in Manchester.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/361725/loganair-adds-new-southampton-scotland-service

So this is in addition to the Eastern SOU-NCL-ABZ option?

[SealinkBF]

So this is in addition to the Eastern SOU-NCL-ABZ option?

It is. Can't believe Eastern have decided that going into competition on a (failed) Flybe route is the best way forward.

[The Nutts Mutts]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18296652.southampton-airport-significantly-restructured-following-collapse-main-airliner-flybe/

In the news this morning. Not unexpected, but still desperately sad for all involved. Hopefully the backfilling of routes will happen quickly enough to reinstate a lot of the jobs which have been/are being lost.

[Jetscream 32]

Rushing to backfill routes from failed airlines without correctly marketing them at both ends to raise awareness is a fools game - especially in the current climate...

I would never launch a route without 90 days pre marketing at both ends - it’s an expensive mistake to fly routes you think people will automatically migrate to.

Very brave decision and I wish them well but right now I’d be conserving cash and reducing risk.....

[RW20]

It seems the airport will be making serious cuts shortly
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/
You can't help but think this is a self inflicted result from all the years of miss management,flybe reliance and now compounded by coronavirus.
The runway extension application must now be put on the back burner as there is no point extending a runway at airport with a uncertain future.

[SWBKCB]

So this is in addition to the Eastern SOU-NCL-ABZ option?

With Eastern it isn't a through plane option but a fourty minute a/c change in NCL

I would never launch a route without 90 days pre marketing at both ends - it’s an expensive mistake to fly routes you think people will automatically migrate to.

But in that time your existing market has found alternatives and might not come back. There must be some benefit in continuity (and generating good will!)

[Jetscream 32]

But in that time your existing market has found alternatives and might not come back. There must be some benefit in continuity (and generating good will!)

If there is no other option and or it’s cheaper then I’m pretty sure they will come back - most companies are restricting travel on an increasing daily basis due to the virus and it WILL last at least another 90 days

The second you start heavily marketing the route - you start building trend analysis through bookings of the frequency and timings that allows you to refine the schedule before launch date - rushing to backfill will not give you visibility of what you are missing or what capacity you really need on the route!

My concern is both for the airlines in a fragile economic state thinking it can make routes work by backfilling without marketing and also the airport and its local economy

What happens in 90 days time if Eastern / Loganair have both bitten off more than they can chew and need to suspend the routes as they had not correctly forecast the extent of the virus and the timeline before we get to the inflection point and then regain confidence in air travel - domestically or internationally - Airlines should be planning for the whole of 2020 to be written off and plan to only operate enough to survive based on the fixed cost liabilities they have or they will go bust!!

[The Nutts Mutts]

But from what I've seen the routes have been heavily marketed on social media by the airports and airlines themselves. In addition, these are core domestic trunk routes which attract a lot of regular fliers, not a new weekly flight to an obscure holiday destination, so should require less marketing support to sustain.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I guess the cruise passengers will be severely lacking in the coming months. Very difficult time to be launching new routes, anywhere!

[22/04]

Some very interesting discussion on here. Eastern were not healthy - and had a dwindling route structure. it might be worth doing something to stem their decline - and may be they think the government will come in to avoid another regional airline failure.

[Sharklet_321]

So, how many pax were on this mornings Manchester flight out and back?

[stewyb]

It seems the airport will be making serious cuts shortly
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/
You can't help but think this is a self inflicted result from all the years of miss management,flybe reliance and now compounded by coronavirus.
The runway extension application must now be put on the back burner as there is no point extending a runway at airport with a uncertain future.

Historical mis-management maybe but surely the faults of the past must now be righted and the extension is key to a brighter future. Your thoughts on the runway extension being thrown in to the long grass don’t make any sense!

[Sharklet_321]

If it's a choice between a runway extension or the closure of the airport, the obvious answer is a runway extension. BUT - given the apparent success of the backfilling of routes, 'environmentalists' may well question whether the runway extension is actually necessary. Especially if easyJet is already using it successfully for GVA services and potentially could serve BFS/AMS/CDG very easily from SOU if they want to without any runway issues. The runway extension would only benefit outbound package flights to Spain or further afield - in the minds of the environmentalists - how important is a couple of flights a week to Alicante versus the environmental concerns of noise, pollution, carbon targets? I think RW20 raises a good point.

[stewyb]

People have been clambering for years on this thread, including RW20, for infrastructure investment and now the thoughts are the airport doesn’t need it, you couldn’t make it up. Suggest it all stems back to the pathetic BOU-SOU debate of mine is bigger than yours!

[SWBKCB]

So, how many pax were on this mornings Manchester flight out and back?

Given the flybe issues and Eastern having to get their own booking engine up and running I don't think it's really relevant. This quote was given in the context of the MME flights, but I think it's relevent here also (Jetscream 32 is going to love this!! :eek:):

Roger Hage, general manager of Eastern Airways, said: “It’s tremendous to have new flights running today. We thought about it last week but we are an established operator and people know who we are. The flights are not going to be busy this week but we thought it was better than leaving it for three weeks. We were running those flights for free but it was more important to do that because we want to carry on with those flights ourselves. We didn’t want everything to stop because then people think it has stopped for good.

[Rivet Joint]

People have been clambering for years on this thread, including RW20, for infrastructure investment and now the thoughts are the airport doesn’t need it, you couldn’t make it up. Suggest it all stems back to the pathetic BOU-SOU debate of mine is bigger than yours!

Agreed, there are some very sad people on here who are reveling in the fact that they have won a point in their point scoring game whilst 100s (possibly 1000s) of people have lost their jobs. The prospects for these people finding another means to put food on the table is not great in this climate.

It is quite obvious to tell which are the trolls, as they post on both the BOH and SOU threads (often negative news about SOU on the former). Of course you have named the chief culprit in your message, which unfortunately you replied to. Like with all trolls, if you ignore them they will disappear eventually (they survive off bites). If all sensible contributors to this thread can ignore the trolls going forward perhaps we can finally return to sensible debate rather than this medieval tribalism.

[RW20]

River joint,
Bad management should be questioned,and there's been many years of bad Management at Southampton.
jobs will be lost because of the short sighted reliance on Flybe
Your continued criticism of contributors who do not agree with your view has become unacceptable,perhaps you should take a step back.

[rog747]

Eastern Value O/W Fares on sale for MME £62 MAN £49 and LBA £92 - quite a disparity - MAN is a jet.

[Dropoffcharge]

It is quite obvious to tell which are the trolls, as they post on both the BOH and SOU threads

Ever thought the guy might be local to BOTH airports? Pretty sure there is no crime on posting in both threads anyway, im sure are posters that post on both Inverness and Aberdeen, or both the Gatwick and Heathrow threads?

[DUB19]

Eastern airways launching BHD-SOU

[adfly]

Looks to be 6 weekly from 23/03 according to their timetable. Timings suggest it is either using the based E145 or E170 between their respective MAN/NCL flights.

Additionally, Eastern's SOU-ABZ is via MME from 27/04, Mon-Thurs.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Good news for both airports undoubtedly. This will probably sound a teensy bit ungrateful given the events of the last week but I was hoping this might be a route we'd see EZY pick up from BFS, in order to increase capacity and further diversify the airport. Eastern are commiting heavily to SOU which is great to see but if they ever go the same way as Flybe the airport will find itself in a similar situation again. Fingers crossed for EIR, KLM and AFR at some point!

[Sharklet_321]

Nuts Mutts - Totally agreed. To be honest it just shows that airports have no real power in the selection of airline or route.

[Rivet Joint]

Good news for both airports undoubtedly. This will probably sound a teensy bit ungrateful given the events of the last week but I was hoping this might be a route we'd see EZY pick up from BFS, in order to increase capacity and further diversify the airport. Eastern are commiting heavily to SOU which is great to see but if they ever go the same way as Flybe the airport will find itself in a similar situation again. Fingers crossed for EIR, KLM and AFR at some point!

I am of the same mind. Saying that, you have to hand it to T3. They are going all in it seems. To be honest as things stand it is them or probably nothing? They are losing the Scatsa oil contract and need to reinvent themselves again. LM have their fingers in far too many pies and EZY can't pull the trigger until the runway is bigger etc. Plus, if EZY ever did move in they would clear every other operator out just as BE did. Not sure that would be a bad thing either, as low cost travel is the best cost model. Fingers crossed AF, KLM, EIR come in to fill the gaps in the meantime though.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Looking at the Loganair EDI/GLA-SOU schedules it appears that from the 6th July when both routes go 4x daily on the ATR72, one of the aircraft will overnight in SOU. It looks like it operates in from Glasgow arriving at 2130 and nightstops, then goes out at 0650 the following morning to Edinburgh.

[SWBKCB]

EZY can't pull the trigger until the runway is bigger etc

BFS is a lot shorter distance than GVA?

[The Nutts Mutts]

BFS is a lot shorter distance than GVA?
Plus I'd imagine there would be a lot less hold baggage too.

[Rivet Joint]

BFS is a lot shorter distance than GVA?

Its the whole package that is needed to support a base of aircraft of that size. Capable stands, ground equipment, security arrangements, car parking, terminal capacity etc. Feel free to pick any of the GVA flights and even the ones that arrive early probably leave late. I hate to say it but as things stand, SOU can't even seem to handle one Airbus sized aircraft efficiently. I very much doubt EZY would stand for the knock on affects this has to their wider operations. The GVA route is an anomaly, its a seasonal charter route that keeps some aircraft busy in the winter months. I was surprised when SOU only went for planning for the runway to start with, but perhaps as it is the most contentious piece of their plans they don't want the expense of gaining planning for all the other pieces that will be required for EZY to base (stands etc).

[SWBKCB]

Why does it need to be a base? EZY operate loads of domestic flights out of BFS, including to none bases like BHX and IOM.

And if the ground operation is that bad, do you expect KL, AF, and EI to return, runway extension or not?

[The Nutts Mutts]

For lack of anything better to do this evening, I've been looking at the SOU schedule. I know, right?

If the Flybe demise hadn't happened and things continued as normal, tomorrow would have seen 90 scheduled airline movements (I'll leave the easyJet Geneva out of this number as it only runs for another couple of weeks and I'm looking ahead into the year)

As it stands with the current schedule without Flybe, tomorrow will see 40 scheduled movements. Add in all the flights we know to be coming down the pipeline (Eastern BHD, Loganair NCL, GLA & EDI), and once they're all at their full frequencies the airport will have 66 movements on an average weekday. This obviously doesn't include any further backfill of routes from existing or new carriers, or frequency increases on current routes.

Given the hugely traumatic loss of Flybe and the instant predictions of doom for SOU, I'd say that based on those numbers things definitely don't seem as grim as they perhaps could have been in terms of movement numbers. Passenger figures may tell a different story of course and I'd expect that these will take a very long time to recover, and probably never will unless the runway is extended and an LCC based.

Of course this is planespotter geek talk and of absolutely no comfort to those who have lost their livelihoods in the last week, and isn't meant to be flippant or dismissive of the situation in any way. I just think the numbers show that SOU appears to be making a reasonable start to the post-Flybe future, perhaps better than many would have anticipated.

[Albert Hall]

Eastern's first NCL today had 1 passenger out and 2 back. They will need this to build up very quickly indeed to be sustainable as the losses from that kind of adventure rack up fast.

[Jetscream 32]

Eastern's first NCL today had 1 passenger out and 2 back. They will need this to build up very quickly indeed to be sustainable as the losses from that kind of adventure rack up fast.

Can we ask how you know that to be factual?

[darren1]

Its the whole package that is needed to support a base of aircraft of that size. Capable stands, ground equipment, security arrangements, car parking, terminal capacity etc. Feel free to pick any of the GVA flights and even the ones that arrive early probably leave late. I hate to say it but as things stand, SOU can't even seem to handle one Airbus sized aircraft efficiently. I very much doubt EZY would stand for the knock on affects this has to their wider operations. The GVA route is an anomaly, its a seasonal charter route that keeps some aircraft busy in the winter months. I was surprised when SOU only went for planning for the runway to start with, but perhaps as it is the most contentious piece of their plans they don't want the expense of gaining planning for all the other pieces that will be required for EZY to base (stands etc).

Charter? You really are no expert.

[Rivet Joint]

Charter? You really are no expert.

Well if one misused word is all you could find issue with I guess that does make me an expert (not that I ever claimed to be one). I think the bigger issue at hand is why you have an issue with someone expressing an opinion on a forum? Got nothing constructive to add yourself?

[rog747]

Sigh, Runway Extension...That old chestnut LOL
We all wish SOU well after such a car crash of events but the planning application is just that - It is still a bit of paper and likely will stay that way for a quite a while.

In the near term, we know Ryanair will not be coming to SOU.

Easy Jet for now, has stuck to it's winter only GVA SKI route. The aircraft for which originates in GVA.
Although not a ''charter'' it basically caters for holidaymakers, as does the EZY GVA-BOH-GVA too.
(SOU-GVA flights do occasionally have a payload limit)

Right now I cannot see EZY wanting to set up a SOU base as there are simply no routes out of SOU for them to run with a 156/186 seat Airbus.
Yes they can do UK domestic, and near-Europe flights into and out of SOU with their aircraft, without a payload penalty.
If they do not have a SOU base then any EZY flights must be from the originator airport, and that means the first flight out of the day will be later, and may not suit the local Businessman.

I wondered if they may have taken on the Belfast, however EZY operate out of the Belfast International BFS, and not BHD.

EZY cannot take on any MED leisure routes until, as we all know, we have the runway starter strip added.

I know Volotea fly a 156 seat A319 (or an MD-95/717) to/from Palma for TUI Hols but do they have a payload restriction, or face a fuel stop out of SOU?
The S20 Volotea Ibiza was cancelled by TUI.
The TUI Mahon and Verona for Inghams were both lost due to Flybe's collapse.

[Sotonsean]

Sigh, Runway Extension...That old chestnut LOL
We all wish SOU well after such a car crash of events but the planning application is just that - It is still a bit of paper and likely will stay that way for a quite a while.

In the near term, we know Ryanair will not be coming to SOU.

Easy Jet for now, has stuck to it's winter only GVA SKI route. The aircraft for which originates in GVA.
Although not a ''charter'' it basically caters for holidaymakers, as does the EZY GVA-BOH-GVA too.
(SOU-GVA flights do occasionally have a payload limit)

Right now I cannot see EZY wanting to set up a SOU base as there are simply no routes out of SOU for them to run with a 156/186 seat Airbus.
Yes they can do UK domestic, and near-Europe flights into and out of SOU with their aircraft, without a payload penalty.
If they do not have a SOU base then any EZY flights must be from the originator airport, and that means the first flight out of the day will be later, and may not suit the local Businessman.

I wondered if they may have taken on the Belfast, however EZY operate out of the Belfast International BFS, and not BHD.

EZY cannot take on any MED leisure routes until, as we all know, we have the runway starter strip added.

I know Volotea fly a 156 seat A319 (or an MD-95/717) to/from Palma for TUI Hols but do they have a payload restriction, or face a fuel stop out of SOU?
The S20 Volotea Ibiza was cancelled by TUI.
The TUI Mahon and Verona for Inghams were both lost due to Flybe's collapse.

But what would stop easyJet operating to Southampton from their European bases. As the domestic routes have virtually been filled now by Eastern and Loganair I can't see easyJet contemplating competing on those routes.

Although the runway extension is needed at Southampton so that aircraft flying further afield to the Mediterranean airport's can do so without any payload restrictions but those destinations have been flown from Southampton's runway in the past with no real issues except for weather related.

In the past Air Europa B733 and B734, Iberoworld A320's, Spanair A320's, TUI 733/757, Vueling A319 have all used Southampton to fly direct to Alicante, Barcelona, Ibiza, Malaga, Menorca and Palma so why couldn't the likes of easyJet be able to do the same with a A319/A320.

There is obviously the demand within the Southampton catchment area for those destinations.

Obviously in the current climate it would be difficult for airlines to commit to opening up those routes but if it wasn't the case I can't see it being too much of issue. If it wasn't for the current situation I could have least seen a couple of them being resumed from Southampton.

Once everything settles down and there is confidence again amongst the airline's I can see some if not all gradually being reinstated at some point.

Ideally I would like to see easyJet fly to Southampton from Alicante, Barcelona, Faro, Ibiza, Malaga, Menorca, Nice, Palma and they could possibly do that from their respective European bases without the need for a Southampton base, not initially anyway.

As those routes would not be aimed at the business market or those necessarily needing a early departure ex Southampton the timing of the flights and the schedules would be irrelevant.

Hopefully in the next few weeks we will see Dublin reinstated with Aer Lingus Regional and Amsterdam with KLM. With Paris previously being a popular and busy route with Flybe I'm sure that another airline will resume flights at some point and hopefully Air France will make a return.

The French regional routes are probably lost forever which is a shame as Bergerac and Limoges were both popular routes from Southampton.

But all in all we can be pleased with the fact that the likes of Eastern Airways and Loganair have been very quick to backfill the key domestic routes and I have no doubt regardless of the current situation affecting the airline and travel industry that future airlines and routes will be announced from Southampton Airport.

If it wasn't for the current climate I'm sure that we would have had more good news regarding Southampton.

[SWBKCB]

Eastern's first NCL today had 1 passenger out and 2 back. They will need this to build up very quickly indeed to be sustainable as the losses from that kind of adventure rack up fast.

And this mornings SOU-NCL-SOU flight is cancelled - the 145 is off to Manchester instead of the 170.

[Jetscream 32]

And this mornings SOU-NCL-SOU flight is cancelled - the 145 is off to Manchester instead of the 170.

Hence my post #2109

[rog747]

But what would stop easyJet operating to Southampton from their European bases. As the domestic routes have virtually been filled now by Eastern and Loganair I can't see easyJet contemplating competing on those routes.

Although the runway extension is needed at Southampton so that aircraft flying further afield to the Mediterranean airport's can do so without any payload restrictions but those destinations have been flown from Southampton's runway in the past with no real issues except for weather related.

In the past Air Europa B733 and B734, Iberoworld A320's, Spanair A320's, TUI 733/757, Vueling A319 have all used Southampton to fly direct to Alicante, Barcelona, Ibiza, Malaga, Menorca and Palma so why couldn't the likes of easyJet be able to do the same with a A319/A320.

There is obviously the demand within the Southampton catchment area for those destinations.

Obviously in the current climate it would be difficult for airlines to commit to opening up those routes but if it wasn't the case I can't see it being too much of issue. If it wasn't for the current situation I could have least seen a couple of them being resumed from Southampton.

Once everything settles down and there is confidence again amongst the airline's I can see some if not all gradually being reinstated at some point.

Ideally I would like to see easyJet fly to Southampton from Alicante, Barcelona, Faro, Ibiza, Malaga, Menorca, Nice, Palma and they could possibly do that from their respective European bases without the need for a Southampton base, not initially anyway.

As those routes would not be aimed at the business market or those necessarily needing a early departure ex Southampton the timing of the flights and the schedules would be irrelevant.

Hopefully in the next few weeks we will see Dublin reinstated with Aer Lingus Regional and Amsterdam with KLM. With Paris previously being a popular and busy route with Flybe I'm sure that another airline will resume flights at some point and hopefully Air France will make a return.

The French regional routes are probably lost forever which is a shame as Bergerac and Limoges were both popular routes from Southampton.

But all in all we can be pleased with the fact that the likes of Eastern Airways and Loganair have been very quick to backfill the key domestic routes and I have no doubt regardless of the current situation affecting the airline and travel industry that future airlines and routes will be announced from Southampton Airport.

If it wasn't for the current climate I'm sure that we would have had more good news regarding Southampton.

Thanks for your concise reply and yes I agree EZY could operate some more flights into SOU from UK or near-Euro bases (like the GVA now) - I kinda hinted at that ref the BFS.

I gather that EZY has differing SOP's to the likes of Volotea, Air Europa Enter Air Etc and have their own performance data for SOU making MED destinations not currently possible without the obvious and expensive load penalty out of SOU.
The 757 & the 737-300/400 was a different beast, I might add.
The 737-700 works for SOU but they are old and sadly no wants them (KLM is letting go of their fleet)
Volotea tried doing their own schedules from SOU in addition to their TUI charters but they pulled out of those after a year or 2.

KLM pulled out in amazement from SOU on their AMS saying they couldn't make it work - I am therefore pessimistic KLM will come back.
CDG - who will pick this one up - ? AF used to do it using on of their French franchise carriers years before Flybe - was it TAT or Brit Air? (superb dinner on it I recall lol)
Aer Lingus pulled off SOU in a similar vane - Do you think they will come back?

I love SOU and the rail link - works great - Just need some more routes...

BTW all of the holiday routes you mentioned are easily got down the road at BOH :(

[adfly]

Hence my post #2109
It is a little concerning, however I think the flights to NCL between 11/03 and 16/03 were only on sale from 1-2 days before the first flight, originally only MAN was bookable starting on 11/03. This will likely have a further negative impact on numbers for the first few flights. Hopefully things will pick up next week.

[SWBKCB]

In the past Air Europa B733 and B734, Iberoworld A320's, Spanair A320's, TUI 733/757, Vueling A319 have all used Southampton to fly direct to Alicante, Barcelona, Ibiza, Malaga, Menorca and Palma so why couldn't the likes of easyJet be able to do the same with a A319/A320.

There is obviously the demand within the Southampton catchment area for those destinations.

Hmmm - the central conundrum which has never been resolved on this thread. A long list of operators and routes which are no longer and then the assertion that there is "obviously the demand"?!

[rog747]

Hmmm - the central conundrum which has never been resolved on this thread. A long list of operators and routes which are no longer and then the assertion that there is "obviously the demand"?!


All of those carriers you mention above old chap were purely and mainly the chartered aircraft each summer series by the relevant Holiday Co./Tour Operator whom in the past was mainly Thomson's, with Palmair doing a wee bit plus one or two others.
Today that is filled by Volotea but only to Palma now, as Mahon and Ibiza for S20 are both cancelled :(

[SWBKCB]

But if there was sufficent demand for decent money to be made, somebody would be servicing? The list of operators who have started SOU and then dropped it is impressive.

[rog747]

But if there was sufficent demand for decent money to be made, somebody would be servicing? The list of operators who have started SOU and then dropped it is impressive.

The long list of Operators (airlines) is purely because the Holiday Tour Operator (or it''s seat broker) has chosen a different airline to charter for that season -
It is not the airline who has chosen to drop SOU...
We still have the main route as always (sold for many years by Thomsons/TUI) which is a summer Palma IT charter series.
Sadly lack of demand (or perhaps non-availability of an aircraft) for their Ibiza series this season means the holiday flights using Volotea were cancelled.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Still not completely clear what Eastern's plans for aircraft utilisation at SOU are. The SOU-BHD-SOU timings fit nicely between the NCL and MAN morning and afternoon rotations, but the BHD aircraft is an ATR 72-600 according to their booking engine. It could be an error on the website which will be fixed in due course.

[destinationsky]

I am still struggling to understand why people think that EZY are the saviours in all this?! There are no routes that would suit their business model and if Flybe etc could not fill an aircraft with 70-80 seats, how would you fill an Airbus with double that? With the global airline industry suffering due to coronavirus, I would highly doubt that any airline the size of EZY would commit to anything new for at least 6-8 months.

Ref the runway extension, don't bank on it. Any major infrastructure project will now be expected to demonstrate how it complies with the Paris Accord otherwise it will be very difficult to pass any judicial review. We only have to look at the delay to LHR R3. The starter strip would in theory lead to an increase in movements, a shift in traffic and different operational characteristics which would all lead to increase in co2, NOx, noise etc. The airports planning application was woeful in mitigating any of these aspects. The airport will struggle to get out of this one and it is sadly a result of to much reliance on one carrier. No matter what the management do now, it will be a struggle.

[Albert Hall]

Since the days of many of the named operators flying 737-300/400 aircraft from SOU, there have been changes to the safety criteria around calculating required runway lengths. This has, in broad terms, increased runway requirements by 15% to add a safety buffer. On short runways, that directly impacts on capacity and therefore viability.

A further factor is that several of the issues at SOU are obstacles - trees. Trees grow. Over time, obstacles that were not particularly limiting have now become so. That's why the airport is engaged in a major tree removal project to mitigate these obstacles. A new Type A obstacle chart will then be required after a survey to identify and chart which obstacles have been removed. Only once that official chart is available can airlines then recalculate their performance data to see how big an improvement has been achieved based on a particular aircraft's lifting capability at a particular temperature with wet/dry runway conditions.

It's therefore not really relevant to look back 20 years and say "Airline X did this". So much has changed.

[RW20]

I am still struggling to understand why people think that EZY are the saviours in all this?! There are no routes that would suit their business model and if Flybe etc could not fill an aircraft with 70-80 seats, how would you fill an Airbus with double that? With the global airline industry suffering due to coronavirus, I would highly doubt that any airline the size of EZY would commit to anything new for at least 6-8 months.

Ref the runway extension, don't bank on it. Any major infrastructure project will now be expected to demonstrate how it complies with the Paris Accord otherwise it will be very difficult to pass any judicial review. We only have to look at the delay to LHR R3. The starter strip would in theory lead to an increase in movements, a shift in traffic and different operational characteristics which would all lead to increase in co2, NOx, noise etc. The airports planning application was woeful in mitigating any of these aspects. The airport will struggle to get out of this one and it is sadly a result of to much reliance on one carrier. No matter what the management do now, it will be a struggle.
Clearly put and very close to reality that some contributors on this blog seem unable to grasp!.Southampton clearly will be fighting for its future over the next few months,
The runway extension application is now virtually a non starter,unfortunately the present management track record on developing and management of the airport is dire,in fact the present state of the airport is down to there mismanagement,and with the coronavirus it becomes a critical issue.

[rog747]

Since the days of many of the named operators flying 737-300/400 aircraft from SOU, there have been changes to the safety criteria around calculating required runway lengths. This has, in broad terms, increased runway requirements by 15% to add a safety buffer. On short runways, that directly impacts on capacity and therefore viability.

A further factor is that several of the issues at SOU are obstacles - trees. Trees grow. Over time, obstacles that were not particularly limiting have now become so. That's why the airport is engaged in a major tree removal project to mitigate these obstacles. A new Type A obstacle chart will then be required after a survey to identify and chart which obstacles have been removed. Only once that official chart is available can airlines then recalculate their performance data to see how big an improvement has been achieved based on a particular aircraft's lifting capability at a particular temperature with wet/dry runway conditions.

It's therefore not really relevant to look back 20 years and say "Airline X did this". So much has changed.
Spot on there Albert Hall

[RoyHudd]

SOU would be much better off competing with Farnborough as a GA hub. Great rail links to London, shortish runway, nice facilities for low volume traffic.

Or possibly developed as a housing complex.

FlyBe are not being resurrected in any shape or form in this country. Face it. SOU is time expired, as are many other smaller airports, MME springs to mind.(Sorry, bit blunt, but being a realist)

[RW20]

SOU would be much better off competing with Farnborough as a GA hub. Great rail links to London, shortish runway, nice facilities for low volume traffic.

Or possibly developed as a housing complex.

FlyBe are not being resurrected in any shape or form in this country. Face it. SOU is time expired, as are many other smaller airports, MME springs to mind.(Sorry, bit blunt, but being a realist)
No need to complete as SOU time has come,it's prime land for housing,in the next 12months it will happen!

[Rivet Joint]

SOU would be much better off competing with Farnborough as a GA hub. Great rail links to London, shortish runway, nice facilities for low volume traffic.

Or possibly developed as a housing complex.

FlyBe are not being resurrected in any shape or form in this country. Face it. SOU is time expired, as are many other smaller airports, MME springs to mind.(Sorry, bit blunt, but being a realist)

Location: Up north. I guess that goes a little way to explain your ignorance but not completely. As with any transport infrastructure it is there to cater for demand. What will never change is the fact people want and need to fly to Southampton. Its one of the fastest growing cities in the UK and 1.7 million cruise passengers alone outweighs most regional airport's potential market. So maybe think before you post absolute nonsense.

[Rivet Joint]

I am still struggling to understand why people think that EZY are the saviours in all this?! There are no routes that would suit their business model and if Flybe etc could not fill an aircraft with 70-80 seats, how would you fill an Airbus with double that? With the global airline industry suffering due to coronavirus, I would highly doubt that any airline the size of EZY would commit to anything new for at least 6-8 months.

Ref the runway extension, don't bank on it. Any major infrastructure project will now be expected to demonstrate how it complies with the Paris Accord otherwise it will be very difficult to pass any judicial review. We only have to look at the delay to LHR R3. The starter strip would in theory lead to an increase in movements, a shift in traffic and different operational characteristics which would all lead to increase in co2, NOx, noise etc. The airports planning application was woeful in mitigating any of these aspects. The airport will struggle to get out of this one and it is sadly a result of to much reliance on one carrier. No matter what the management do now, it will be a struggle.

With that logic perhaps you can explain how EZY and FR exist today? There would have been no market at any airport for their business model before they existed, and some how they became the massive operations they are today. Hampshire is one of the most wealthiest counties in the country, and a large part of LGW's traffic comes from here. LGW like most London airports are slot restricted, hence growth at SEN. You only have to look at what routes EZY and FR are opening at SEN to see what they would do at SOU. BE's business model was completely different, and the fairs were double if not triple what a low cost operator would charge. BE was also badly run so you cannot use it's failure as an example of there not being a market.

I agree with you that the runway extension looks unlikely but not impossible.

[Rivet Joint]

Why does it need to be a base? EZY operate loads of domestic flights out of BFS, including to none bases like BHX and IOM.

And if the ground operation is that bad, do you expect KL, AF, and EI to return, runway extension or not?

Did you not answer this in your subsequent post stating how many airlines have come and gone? All such airlines operated one route largely to fill a gap in a schedule. Those type of routes never last, which is why a base is key for SOU to succeed, not to mention all the local employment it creates. The key routes need to be able to leave SOU early. EDI, GLA, DUB, BFS, MAN, NCL, AMS and CDG could all probably justify a twice daily airbus.

None of the above operators you mentioned would use airbus sized aircraft, it would be there regional subsidies.

[RW20]

As always River joint you are actually rude with your criticisms of contributors who don't follow your view. It's clear to Many that SOU doesn't have the airside capacity to attract Easy or any other Air bus operator ,indeed the stands havnt been adjusted as planned to even accommodate one Air bus .The airport is stuck with its limited capabilities,and it's highly unlightly that there will any investment for some time if ever!The aviation industry is in free fall,indeed it will be extremely hard for the airport to survive the double whammy of flybe and coronovirus.

[adfly]

A small break from the bickering...

Eastern are increasing Manchester from 11 to 16 weekly from 23/03 when Belfast starts with a new later flight. Currently shows the early and late flights as an ATR72-600 and the middle one as an E170. I suspect the middle one will become an ATR as well, then they will have a fully utilised based aircraft flying 3x SOU-MAN and 1x SOU-BHD. Newcastle remains 11 weekly on the E145 for the time being.

Considering the bleak outlook for aviation at the moment I think Eastern are approaching this well, adding a sensible amount of capacity to the routes, however they will still rely on word of mouth and advertising to an extent to establish themselves amongst local businesses. I feel that (this is purely opinion) the lack of border concerns also lessens the negative influence on people wanting to travel on domestic flights, so they may see a lower fall in demand.

[Atlantic Explorer]

A small break from the bickering...

Eastern are increasing Manchester from 11 to 16 weekly from 23/03 when Belfast starts with a new later flight. Currently shows the early and late flights as an ATR72-600 and the middle one as an E170. I suspect the middle one will become an ATR as well, then they will have a fully utilised based aircraft flying 3x SOU-MAN and 1x SOU-BHD. Newcastle remains 11 weekly on the E145 for the time being.

Considering the bleak outlook for aviation at the moment I think Eastern are approaching this well, adding a sensible amount of capacity to the routes, however they will still rely on word of mouth and advertising to an extent to establish themselves amongst local businesses. I feel that (this is purely opinion) the lack of border concerns also lessens the negative influence on people wanting to travel on domestic flights, so they may see a lower fall in demand.

The affect will be widespread. Eastern doesn’t have a magic cloak to shield itself to the current crisis. Loganair are suffering, they are cancelling 700 flights over the next few weeks due to the downturn. I suspect that we will be in a very different position a week from now and it won’t be a positive one.

It is the worst possible time for starting new routes for a company, unless of course Eastern are quite happy sending empty jets around burning fuel and money with few or no passengers on them?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Welcome news from Eastern. Sadly I don't think any form of optimism or positivity is welcome on the SOU forum, it just seems to antagonise people. Yes we all know times are tough locally, nationally and globally right now. However, so do the qualified professionals who work in the industry who have access to data sources we could only dream of analysing. So instead of constantly second-guessing them and decrying their decisions as incorrect from our keyboards, why don't we all just sit back, take a deep breath and watch to see how things actually work out for real, not in our imaginations. Fact over opinion, every time.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Just seen that Eastern are now offering Saturday services to Belfast and Manchester in addition to the other days already announced.

[adfly]

Welcome news from Eastern. Sadly I don't think any form of optimism or positivity is welcome on the SOU forum, it just seems to antagonise people. Yes we all know times are tough locally, nationally and globally right now. However, so do the qualified professionals who work in the industry who have access to data sources we could only dream of analysing. So instead of constantly second-guessing them and decrying their decisions as incorrect from our keyboards, why don't we all just sit back, take a deep breath and watch to see how things actually work out for real, not in our imaginations. Fact over opinion, every time.
Completely agree, very much aware of the scale of Coronavirus but if I want hysteria and endless doom and gloom then I can head to the * insert tabloid here * website.

[Sotonsean]

Regarding Eastern Airways.

Are the ATR72-600's and the EMB70's painted in the full Eastern Airways livery or just plain white?

Considering how quickly Eastern Airways have put them into service I'm wondering if they have had time to paint them.

I know that the EMB70's were mothballed in Lourdes (I think it was Lourdes), but did they retain the Eastern Airways livery or were they stripped of their livery whilst they were there. Eastern Airways having already put one of the two mothballed aircraft back into service, when will they reactivate the other one of have they already done so.

Also regarding the EMB90's, any updates on when Eastern Airways will be receiving them or when they intend on introducing them into service. Any speculation that they might use them on scheduled routes or is it still their intention on using them for charters/ACMI work.

[darren1]

Unfortunately too many armchair CEOs on here, no doubt all readers of the Sun or Mail.

[MARKEYD]

Oh I couldn’t agree more with the above 3 posts !!

You all have posted with maturity and professional at all times and are well respected

The other two posters “ locking horns “ have shown a shallow and bullish side which to be honest , no one takes any notice of ...

On a personal note I am devastated at what had happened at Southampton , no one wanted this for any of the staff and it must be huge sorrow and sadness to see this all unfolding in front of them

Just all think and be a bit Kind before you all post , especially in this present worrying time

Thanks everyone

[Rivet Joint]

Welcome news from Eastern. Sadly I don't think any form of optimism or positivity is welcome on the SOU forum, it just seems to antagonise people. Yes we all know times are tough locally, nationally and globally right now. However, so do the qualified professionals who work in the industry who have access to data sources we could only dream of analysing. So instead of constantly second-guessing them and decrying their decisions as incorrect from our keyboards, why don't we all just sit back, take a deep breath and watch to see how things actually work out for real, not in our imaginations. Fact over opinion, every time.

Well said. I have not seen this kind of relentless negativity on any of the other airport threads. I am not sure why this thread keeps attracting these people? The city of Southampton has very exciting plans for the next couple of years with over a billion pound of investment. An airport is crucial to this, especially with Southampton being such a transient place. The virus, post Brexit lull etc all goes without saying, I am sure all the positive comments are made with those in mind.

[Rivet Joint]

Unfortunately too many armchair CEOs on here, no doubt all readers of the Sun or Mail.

The irony of your posts are too funny. Again no constructive points to make, but you are more than happy to judge people's ability to express an opinion by what newspaper they may or may not read? Real intelligence that, right out Kim Jong-Un's rule book.

Whisper.........this is a forum for rumors and opinions.

[Buster the Bear]

The industry is about to transit through the worst turmoil the sector has ever seen. Survival is paramount for the likes of Eastern, Loganair and may others. The future cannot be predicted. Every single airport is vulnerable to route and airline casualties. I doubt if the sector will see a kick start until June or July. Surviving is key.

[Sharklet_321]

The irony of your posts are too funny. Again no constructive points to make, but you are more than happy to judge people's ability to express an opinion by what newspaper they may or may not read? Real intelligence that, right out Kim Jong-Un's rule book.

Whisper.........this is a forum for rumors and opinions.

For forum admin: please can we stop personal attacks on posters and keep this to free speech on observations of SOU - anything goes if we are talking about SOU but it's not right to keep attacking posters for their opinions.

[Flitefone]

It’s easy to be distracted by the fall out from the unfortunate demise of Flybe and the subsequent scramble to back fill routes. But the reality of the present crisis is much more profound for aviation and - in context of the Southampton area - for the Cruise Industry too.

Among the many announcements over the past ten days was the statement by the Delta Airlines CEO in which he said that demand is not expected to return for 18 months. Of course, none of us know, but we do have some precedent with both the global financial crisis of 2008/9 and 9/11. 18 months from now is the beginning of the winter schedule 21/22, so the reality is more likely to be a return to normality for the summer 2022 season. In the meantime, buckle up.

For the south coast, BOH in 2019 had recovered only about 80% of its previous peak passenger throughput which was in 2007! Meanwhile SOU, until fairly recently, doing better, had peaked a year or two earlier. So what is a likely outcome?

For the UK as a whole, a reasonable estimate of the impact in 2020, is a 25% annual fall in passenger numbers for 2020, 20m wiped from LHR, 11m from Gatwick and so on. On current indications, it is also likely that more airlines will go under. In simple terms, those with cash in the bank and relatively manageable debt will probably come out of this stronger. That means IAG and Ryanair, perhaps even easyJet, but the latter has picked a very bad year to launch its inclusive holiday business.

In the meantime, all airlines (and airports) are in a cash preserving mode, cutting costs wherever they can. Staff will go, projects will be deferred or cancelled, at least until there is more clarity about revenue normalising again. The airport owners - usually Pension Funds and Infrastructure investors - look for consistent returns, when revenue falls, that means cost cutting.

Pressure on London runway slots and airspace will ease, the need for airlines to move into the UK regions to deliver growth has probably moved right by 3 years, and for easyjet the recently acquired Thomas Cook slots at LGW and BRS are in its back pocket for growth when it does return.

So where does that leave SOU expansion plans?

In my view there is no doubt that planning permission for the runway extension is much more likely to get the green light now, planners will need to be seen to support economic growth, there will be environmental requirements, but it will be approved. But, the airport owners are much less likely to be ready to spend the money on development. Why? Because the value of the (all) airports, has just taken a big hit, money will be spent only when there is a reasonable basis that it will deliver a return through increased traffic, or the value of the airport.

So, for the next 2-3 years staying in business will be the key objective for all airports, especially the regions.

FF

[rog747]

SOU right now faces an unprecedented series of events which means a survival plan is pivotal, hence the announcement by the SOU bosses addressing that soon.

SOU airport managing director Neil Garwood has just written to staff and explained that the future shape and structure of the company will be different to what it is now.

We wish them well but until Covid-19 has passed we cannot say who will survive the implication of almost no one currently travelling by air.......

[SWBKCB]

Are the ATR72-600's and the EMB70's painted in the full Eastern Airways livery or just plain white?

Only one 170 in service at the moment and it's all white. The other is still in store. They've had the 72's for a while (2017) and they're are in full colours but small tiles

[Sotonsean]

It's strange that the Southampton Airport website has not listed any arrivals or departures since the demise of Flybe.

The website also doesn't list any timetables as they did before.

You would have thought that the management at Southampton Airport could have updated their website to reflect this.

Very poor show on behalf of the airport in my opinion!

[Sotonsean]

Only one 170 in service at the moment and it's all white. The other is still in store. They've had the 72's for a while (2017) and they're are in full colours but small tiles

Is there any news on the other E170 that's still in storage, are Eastern still planning on introducing it back into service?

Even with the current situation surely Eastern Airways still require that particular aircraft!

[LTNman]

To be honest I would think it is madness for any airline to pick up any Flybe route in the current conditions. Whatever the loads were on Flybe routes out of Southampton a new carrier would be lucky to pick up 50% with this virus floating around. Just look at what is happening to rail.

[Wycombe]

Posted last night on their website:

UPDATE: 15/03/2020 - 22.00

Blue Islands maintains essential lifeline routes as our islands enter unprecedented territory

Following announcements by the States of Guernsey (https://www.gov.gg/covid19essentialtravel) and the Government of Jersey (https://www.gov.je/News/2020/Pages/CoronavirusLatestAdvice.aspx) advising islanders to consider avoiding all non-essential travel to and from the islands, we are entering unprecedented territory with the impact of Covid-19.

Blue Islands has implemented a revised timetable, effective from Tuesday 17 March until Sunday 12 April ensuring the maintenance of critical lifeline routes as a base provision for essential travel.

We know our services, particularly from both Guernsey and Jersey to Southampton are heavily relied upon by both island communities for essential travel for medical purposes. Therefore to sustain these vital links, Blue Islands will operate morning and evening inter-island services between Guernsey and Jersey, as well as twice daily Guernsey to Southampton and Jersey to Southampton services plus a daily service to Bristol.



Probably a sensible move, although there are a few showing as full (particularly to and from JER) over the next few weeks.

It also looks like the rest of their flights (including the new ones to EXT and BHX) have been canned for the rest of March.

[Sotonsean]

Good to see that Southampton Airport have their Arrivals and Departures finally up and running again on their website. This hasn't been the case since the day after the demise of Flybe.

13 scheduled arrivals and departures for today with the Leeds/Bradford flights consolidated into one flight. 08.40 as previously planned has been consolidated to the 19.00 departure.

Even with the recent cutbacks on planned flights announced from both Eastern Airways and Loganair from Southampton the daily arrivals and departures should hopefully increase slightly next week with the resumption of BHD and the start of NCL both by Loganair.

Considering the current situation I think that the likes of Southampton Airport are rather fortunate to have that many daily flights. Let's hope that they remain and that no further cutbacks are planned.

[stewyb]

Good to see that Southampton Airport have their Arrivals and Departures finally up and running again on their website. This hasn't been the case since the day after the demise of Flybe.

13 scheduled arrivals and departures for today with the Leeds/Bradford flights consolidated into one flight. 08.40 as previously planned has been consolidated to the 19.00 departure.

Even with the recent cutbacks on planned flights from both Eastern Airways and Loganair from Southampton the daily arrivals and departures should hopefully increase slightly next week with the resumption of BHD.

Considering the current situation I think that the likes of Southampton Airport are rather fortunate to have that many daily flights. Let's hope that they remain and that no further cutbacks are planned.

Doesn’t include Blue Islands double daily to Jersey and Guernsey. From the 23rd March up to 23 daily departures with Loganair adding!

[Sharklet_321]

It does - SI flights are included on their arrivals board

I was surprised to see it's only double daily though, I thought they were once 4 times daily?

[Wycombe]

Let's hope that they remain and that no further cutbacks are planned.

There's a statement out from Loganair overnight that affects the new SOU services as follows:
GLA-SOU reduced timetable of two flights per day (assume still due to start 30/03)
NCL-SOU reduced timetable of one/two flights per day (assume still due to start 23/3)

EDI is not due to start until mid-June in any case.

[Wycombe]

I thought they were once 4 times daily?

JER and GCI were 3/4 times daily until a few weeks ago. BEE also flew at least 1 daily to JER in their own right.

[Sotonsean]

JER and GCI were 3/4 times daily until a few weeks ago. BEE also flew at least 1 daily to JER in their own right.

A few weeks ago is a completely different scenario to now!

It was announced on the Guernsey press website as well as the Blue Islands website on Monday that flights between Southampton to Guernsey and Jersey were being reduced due to the current situation.

Guernsey and Jersey will both be connected to Southampton up to twice daily with a morning and an evening departure to both islands.

A daily interisland connection between Guernsey and Jersey is still being maintained by Blue Islands.

[Auxtank]

Don't shoot me down here and obviously I have tremendous sympathy with all those affected by Flybe's woes but living as I do at roughly the MM of ILS 20 I'm seeing some interesting traffic going in; various Helos, Twin Stars practising IFR (from L3 at BOH?) and all manner of twin pistons as well as the commercial stuff being spoken about.
It's rather nice and obviously SOU have made their tarmac available to anyone who wants to use it for a price and have done a good job of projecting that out there.
Makes a change from the drone of endless Q400, and others.

[SKOJB]

EasyJet return for winter season 20/21, Thu/Sun Dec-Feb, good news!

[ericlday]

If there is a Winter season.........Hmmmmmm

[Wycombe]

A few weeks ago is a completely different scenario to now!

Did I say it wasn't, I just answered the question that was asked.

As Auxtank says, there does seem to be a lot more GA buzzing around SOU than during "normal times"

I notice that Specsavers appear to have stopped though - guess they are all WFH and/or limiting travel to GCI.

[Sharklet_321]

EasyJet return for winter season 20/21, Thu/Sun Dec-Feb, good news!

A320 or A319 or a mix of both?

Don't worry about flights only on sale till Feb. It's the same for everyone so hopefully March will be rolled out later.

[SKOJB]

A320 or A319 or a mix of both?

Don't worry about flights only on sale till Feb. It's the same for everyone so hopefully March will be rolled out later.

Looks like A320 for entire timetable!

[The Nutts Mutts]

I've got a feeling the Eastern Belfast service may not start until the 14th April now.
Loganair appear to be pressing ahead with their route launches from SOU but at a reduced frequency due to COVID.

[adfly]

Looks like Eastern are cutting capacity until 20/04. Also only offering higher fares at the moment (~180 each way!), but then that may be a sensible move because it is likely that anyone who does need to fly somewhere now will need too somewhat urgently, therefore said prices are unlikely to deter them. Unless, of course it is a sign they may be suspended. Usual ~50 each way fares resume from 14/04, and at the moment capacity ramps up from 20/04

Until 20/04:

Belfast - 6 weekly S20 (from 23/03)
Leeds - 5 weekly J41
Manchester - 6 weekly S20
Newcastle - 6 weekly E145
Teesside - 10 weekly E145/S20

From 20/04:

Belfast - 7 weekly AT7
Leeds - 15 weekly J41
Manchester - 17 weekly AT7
Newcastle - 11 weekly E145
Teesside - 10 weekly J41

[The Nutts Mutts]

This morning Eastern released their latest schedule update.
All routes from SOU will still operate which is good news, but at a reduced frequency of 1x daily Mon-Fri only.
Eastern Belfast and Loganair Newcastle still due to start on Monday 23rd.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Eastern have announced that they will operate a Southampton to Dublin route, but haven't committed to a start date yet due to the Covid crisis. Apparently this is one of seven new routes from Southampton and Belfast City they'll be announcing once things start getting back to normal.

[Rivet Joint]

Eastern have announced that they will operate a Southampton to Dublin route, but haven't committed to a start date yet due to the Covid crisis. Apparently this is one of seven new routes from Southampton and Belfast City they'll be announcing once things start getting back to normal.

Positive news, SOU looks like it has recovered the best out of the ex BE bases so far? I guess ideally SOU does not want to end up in the same position where it has one airline serving all its routes like BE did though. Interesting that T3 will base 5 aircraft. I wonder what aircraft hey will base? Seems to be mixed so far.

[adfly]

Eastern have announced that they will operate a Southampton to Dublin route, but haven't committed to a start date yet due to the Covid crisis. Apparently this is one of seven new routes from Southampton and Belfast City they'll be announcing once things start getting back to normal.
I would guess this could be using the 1-2 daily slots that will be 'free' on the E145 operating the NCL route when that returns to 11 weekly. Good news however it turns out though.

[SKOJB]

Would imagine the majority of these new routes will be from Belfast City as the airport only has Teesside & Southampton to date!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Positive news, SOU looks like it has recovered the best out of the ex BE bases so far? I guess ideally SOU does not want to end up in the same position where it has one airline serving all its routes like BE did though. Interesting that T3 will base 5 aircraft. I wonder what aircraft hey will base? Seems to be mixed so far.

My thoughts too, I really hope they don't end up with all their eggs in one basket again.
Eastern seem a different beast since being bought back from Bristow, but my worry is that they're much less widely known than Flybe were. Will enough people get to know that they serve these routes?

[Rivet Joint]

My thoughts too, I really hope they don't end up with all their eggs in one basket again.
Eastern seem a different beast since being bought back from Bristow, but my worry is that they're much less widely known than Flybe were. Will enough people get to know that they serve these routes?

It looks like they are doing a good job on social media but I cannot see them ever becoming as large an operation as BE. To be fair BE did take a while to build themselves to a household name so you never know. The North Sea oil market is flat so T3 are clearly trying to move towards being a regional airline. I guess they have the jump on LM who are tied into numerous contracts routes. It looks like another ej145 has returned to T3s fleet today. I guess their finances wouldn’t stretch to leasing a couple of the q400s sitting around (obviously once things have returned to normal). You would hope SOU have talked to KLM and AF, and that with the reduced frequency on most routes that they would have capacity to open up at SOU. 230k annual passengers on the AMS route is surely tempting even for the likes of KLM. Again this is all on the basis that things have returned to normal.

[willy wombat]

I don’t think it would be a question of finances stretching to lease a q400. I think you could probably be paid to take on some of them at the moment. Adding q400s to the AOC would be time consuming and expensive and really, Eastern has got quite enough variation in its fleet without q400s .

[davidjohnson6]

At $27 for a barrel of crude, it is likely that demand for anything North Sea related will be non existent

[Sotonsean]

There was an Aurigny flight from Gatwick that landed at 21.45 tonight, flight number GR611

Any idea what this was about?

[Gurnard]

Looks as if flights have been combined - the ATR doing LGW-GCI but calling at SOU to collect pax booked on GR659 SOU-GCI. Maybe an a/c is u/s - but in any case loads will be incredibly light. GR658 GCI-SOU must have been cancelled.

[Sotonsean]

Looks as if flights have been combined - the ATR doing LGW-GCI but calling at SOU to collect pax booked on GR659 SOU-GCI. Maybe an a/c is u/s - but in any case loads will be incredibly light. GR658 GCI-SOU must have been cancelled.

Thanks for the quick response.

I see that the flight is over two hours behind schedule. It was originally scheduled to arrive at 19.15 with a departure time of 19.45.

The flight number is now GR659.

[Copenhagen]

Looks like Dublin is back to twice daily on a 145 - right back to where the route started in the 90's.

[KindaUnstuck]

Looks as if flights have been combined - the ATR doing LGW-GCI but calling at SOU to collect pax booked on GR659 SOU-GCI. Maybe an a/c is u/s - but in any case loads will be incredibly light. GR658 GCI-SOU must have been cancelled.

It's been suggested that the inbound GR607 from LGW had a suspected Coronavirus case (believed to be false), passengers from that flight held at Guernsey airport and presumably aircraft deemed as unserviceable to go out again so the SOU aircraft did a combined run instead but left GCI late on the outbound.

[Wycombe]

Looks like only 3 scheduled flights due in and out of SOU today - one each to JER (BCI) , GCI and ACI (AUR)

[rog747]

Sadly the Alderney literary Festival this weekend Fri-Sun had to be canx'd.
Lots of folk were booked on flights

[Sharklet_321]

Looks like Dublin is back to twice daily on a 145 - right back to where the route started in the 90's.


How do you know this? Nothing has been confirmed by Eastern, just their intent to operate it.

[adfly]

Whilst circumstances are rather different to any other year, I've put together a summary of what will hopefully be operating from SOU this summer once the world starts to return to normality (I am cautiously optimistic that the UK will be in a fairly reasonable place by this time, but lets be honest no-one truly knows...) Please keep any Coronavirus discussions/arguments/doom mongering relating to this for elsewhere, and as ever, let me know of any changes or corrections.

I've based this all on week commencing 13/07.

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7

Blue Islands

Guernsey - 29 weekly AT7/AT4
Jersey - 23 weekly AT7

Eastern Airways (1x ATR72 and 1x E145 based)

Aberdeen - 4 weekly J41 (via MME)
Belfast City - 7 weekly AT7
Dublin - tbc
Leeds Bradford - 15 weekly J41
Manchester - 17 weekly AT7
Newcastle - 11 weekly ER4
Teesside - 10 weekly J41

Loganair (1x ATR72 overnights)

Aberdeen - 4 weekly ER3 (via NCL)
Edinburgh - 26 weekly AT7
Glasgow - 25 weekly AT7
Newcastle - 18 weekly ER3

TUI

Palma - 1 weekly 712 (Volotea)

Summary

210 weekly departures (~340 in S19)
30 daily departures (~49 in S19)

There were around 230 weekly Flybe departures in S19, not including the Blue Islands and Eastern franchises.

Overall I would say this is a solid start for the airport - considering the Dublin flights have not yet been confirmed, and the two other major international routes (Amsterdam and Paris) remain un-served for the time being, plus the general reduction in capacity on existing routes is probably no bad thing looking at where the economy is heading. Even the Newcastle route, despite having more flights has a little less capacity than Flybe provided (I think!), thanks to the smaller aircraft being used.

[stewyb]

Whilst circumstances are rather different to any other year, I've put together a summary of what will hopefully be operating from SOU this summer once the world starts to return to normality (I am cautiously optimistic that the UK will be in a fairly reasonable place by this time, but lets be honest no-one truly knows...) Please keep any Coronavirus discussions/arguments/doom mongering relating to this for elsewhere, and as ever, let me know of any changes or corrections.

I've based this all on week commencing 13/07.

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7

Blue Islands

Guernsey - 29 weekly AT7/AT4
Jersey - 23 weekly AT7

Eastern Airways (1x ATR72 and 1x E145 based)

Aberdeen - 4 weekly J41 (via MME)
Belfast City - 7 weekly AT7
Dublin - tbc
Leeds Bradford - 15 weekly J41
Manchester - 17 weekly AT7
Newcastle - 11 weekly ER4
Teesside - 10 weekly J41

Loganair (1x ATR72 overnights)

Aberdeen - 4 weekly ER3 (via NCL)
Edinburgh - 26 weekly AT7
Glasgow - 25 weekly AT7
Newcastle - 18 weekly ER3

TUI

Palma - 1 weekly 712 (Volotea)

Summary

210 weekly departures (~340 in S19)
30 daily departures (~49 in S19)

There were around 230 weekly Flybe departures in S19, not including the Blue Islands and Eastern franchises.

Overall I would say this is a solid start for the airport - considering the Dublin flights have not yet been confirmed, and the two other major international routes (Amsterdam and Paris) remain un-served for the time being, plus the general reduction in capacity on existing routes is probably no bad thing looking at where the economy is heading. Even the Newcastle route, despite having more flights has a little less capacity than Flybe provided (I think!), thanks to the smaller aircraft being used.

Thanks Adfly, comprehensive as ever. Looks ok when you consider the airport has had 95% of its route network taken away. The big question will be how long it’s takes to eventually get over current circumstances and we might be in to winter 20/21 before any form of recovery happens. The other issue is ticket sales for the new airlines now operating, will they be known to punters and are they going to be marketed widely, especially within the business community? Fair to say we will see further increase on Belfast and maybe Manchester at some stage, along with the yet to be announced Dublin schedule. The 2 other core routes are Paris and Amsterdam, of which combined contribute circa 300k to pax numbers annually although I cannot see these being reintroduced until the virus subsides, it will however be interesting to see who takes these on. French regionals are gone for the time being and med routes minimal apart from TUI Palma. Any further route reintroduction/growth will come about from the airports success of the runway planning app, of which I am quietly confident will get the go ahead from EBC. All in all I think the airport have done well in getting this far post BE and have been unfortunate with the immediate downturn caused by COVID 19!

[Wycombe]

will they be known to punters

I think SOU has a core of regular business users (I am a reasonably regular one) and they will be following the airports updates about returning routes, and that core of loyal use will return to some extent.

I think it's sensible that the replacement operators are coming in with a lot less capacity than Flybe had on the core routes taken up so far (although both EZE and LOG on NCL looks a bit questionable), and once we overcome the virus they will start to be taken up.

Ironically I was due to fly with Flybe to BHD tomorrow (booked about 2 weeks before they folded) but first the Customer asked us not to go (due coronovirus concerns) and I ended up cancelling my reservations on the day they went into administration :sad:

[LBIA]

Eastern Airways suspending all flights from Southampton base,

https://www.easternairways.com/announcements/coronavirus-information

[Auxtank]

Not sure what the active is today but I haven't seen or heard a single aircraft on final for 20 all day.

[Sotonsean]

Not sure what the active is today but I haven't seen or heard a single aircraft on final for 20 all day.

Absolutely, it's earily quiet over the skies of Southampton today, even the bird's seem rather quiet compared to normal.

I wonder how many staff are on duty at SOU today!

[Auxtank]

Absolutely, it's earily quiet over the skies of Southampton today, even the bird's seem rather quiet compared to normal.

I wonder how many staff are on duty at SOU today!

Not many. I thought the exact same thing as you about the birds when I was in my garden earlier. The World has got the sound turned down.

[Sotonsean]

Not many. I thought the exact same thing as you about the birds when I was in my garden earlier. The World has got the sound turned down.

Exactly I love to see and hear the plane's but when the bird's are quiet it makes things rather strange, not a nice feeling!

[virginblue]

Aurigny
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7

Blue Islands
Guernsey - 29 weekly AT7/AT4
Jersey - 23 weekly AT7


My excuses for a potentially stupid question from a distance - but why is there, based on the allocation of capacity by the C.I.'s home carriers, apparently much more demand at SOU from/to the "smaller" Guernsey than from/to the "bigger" Jersey, whereas from the London airports it appears to be the other way round?

[Wycombe]

Not sure what the active is today but I haven't seen or heard a single aircraft on final for 20 all day.

There are about 10 each scheduled arrivals and departures due today. A few of them have definitely happened as I saw (on FR24) an Eastern Saab landing from BHD about an hour ago (1340). The news above suggests that today will be the last day of EZE ops in and out of SOU for a while though.

Originally Posted by adfly View Post (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599769-southampton-2-a-111.html#post10725659)
Aurigny
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7

Blue Islands
Guernsey - 29 weekly AT7/AT4
Jersey - 23 weekly AT7
My excuses for a potentially stupid question from a distance - but why is there, based on the allocation of capacity by the C.I.'s home carriers, apparently much more demand at SOU from/to the "smaller" Guernsey than from/to the "bigger" Jersey, whereas from the London airports it appears to be the other way round?

AUR launched in competition with BCI out of GCI last year, with very low prices which actually stimulated a lot of additional demand. I thought it might cease once they got rid of the ATR42 (G-HUET) which they used for most of these flights, but it has carried on, using the ATR72's (3 of which are brand new).

Until now of course. Although at the moment they are operating the only (1 daily) service between the island and SOU.

[Jetscream 32]

Pi$$ing contest between the two carriers - The yellow one has a blank cheque book as its owned by the 'States' ie Govt, so doesn't really care, the other one I can't, unfortunately, see surviving much past the end of the week...

[RW20]

There are about 10 each scheduled arrivals and departures due today. A few of them have definitely happened as I saw (on FR24) an Eastern Saab landing from BHD about an hour ago (1340). The news above suggests that today will be the last day of EZE ops in and out of SOU for a while though.



AUR launched in competition with BCI out of GCI last year, with very low prices which actually stimulated a lot of additional demand. I thought it might cease once they got rid of the ATR42 (G-HUET) which they used for most of these flights, but it has carried on, using the ATR72's (3 of which are brand new).

Until now of course. Although at the moment they are operating the only (1 daily) service between the island and SOU.
The airport will close ,they simply cannot continue without revenue.Let's hope it not indefinite!

[Wycombe]

The airport will close ,they simply cannot continue without revenue

What a ridiculous statement - how can you possibly know that?

Please leave off with the speculatory negativity. It's not what we need at this time.

[adfly]

What a ridiculous statement - how can you possibly know that?

Please leave off with the speculatory negativity. It's not what we need at this time.
I'd ignore him Wycombe. Every post he has made regarding Southampton for as long as I can remember has been doom mongering with no evidence to back it up. Troll like behaviour.

[Sotonsean]

I'd ignore him Wycombe. Every post he has made regarding Southampton for as long as I can remember has been doom mongering with no evidence to back it up. Troll like behaviour.

I absolutely agree with your comments 🤗

[Auxtank]

The airport will close ,they simply cannot continue without revenue.Let's hope it not indefinite!

What complete bollocks and a waste of your time for posting.

[RW20]

What complete bollocks and a waste of your time for posting.
if that's the quality of your posting,then I suggest you refrain from posting!

[Auxtank]

I'm not feeding you either.

[EXEL1966]

Well I'm not sure about the airport closing for good, however the airport is/has been closing earlier than it's published operating hours this week as essentially after 1830ish nothing happens unless there is a GA movement.

[stewyb]

Well I'm not sure about the airport closing for good, however the airport is/has been closing earlier than it's published operating hours this week as essentially after 1830ish nothing happens unless there is a GA movement.

Unfortunately the same could be said about most airports around the UK, all struggling at present!

[rog747]

Just saw the headline 10 minutes ago that London City Airport will be closing down until further notice we can assume other airports can follow suit as well

[stewyb]

During these difficult times, the airport will not close completely and instead will handle lifeline flights from Jersey and Guernsey (one daily by Aurigny and Blue Island's). The airport is also open to receive medical flights if needed. All other schedules are suspended!

[rog747]

Yes I get why the CI flights have to continue -

Latest is NQY is now closed (terminal) but the aerodrome remains open

[EXEL1966]

In addition to the above, as from Monday 30th for 1 month the airfield will only be open from 1230-1345. Outside of these times the airfield can be opened at short notice for medical emergencies only at the managements discretion.

[Auxtank]

In addition to the above, as from Monday 30th for 1 month the airfield will only be open from 1230-1345. Outside of these times the airfield can be opened at short notice for medical emergencies only at the managements discretion.

That seems sensible - If Richard Branson gets a bail out it'll set a precedent.
I imagine that that will be proportionate according to traffic/ slots, etc.

All those posting here who live in the vacinity of SOU should work hard to lobby local government to support our airport through the difficult times ahead.

In other words - Lobby local councillors to protect aviation at SOU - it's as simple as that.

[RW20]

What you really mean Auxtank is anyone who has a different
view on the airport future to you can p*ss off!
As usual a very intellectual posting

[commit aviation]

Auxtank
The government has already said that airlines and airports should not expect any further assistance from them, except as a last resort.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52027342

As barely three days have gone past since then, I would imagine the response is unlikely to be positive. They can take advantage of the furloughed staff schemes and other aid that is being made available. The AOA are lobbying hard on behalf of the UK airports but as you said, it is going to be a tough road ahead for aviation as a whole in the coming months and potentially years.

[bad bear]

The airfield will always be there, just might end up with a new owner after this blows over ?

bb

[AirUK]

The airfield will always be there, just might end up with a new owner after this blows over ?

bb

Yeah - Barratt’s Homes.

[Expressflight]

The airfield will always be there, just might end up with a new owner after this blows over ?bb

Maybe an idea to look up the phrase 'blows over':

"a transient event without serious effect", or "to fade away without serious consequences". Not quite appropriate is it?

[Rivet Joint]

That seems sensible - If Richard Branson gets a bail out it'll set a precedent.
I imagine that that will be proportionate according to traffic/ slots, etc.

All those posting here who live in the vacinity of SOU should work hard to lobby local government to support our airport through the difficult times ahead.

In other words - Lobby local councillors to protect aviation at SOU - it's as simple as that.

Totally agree, and add their comments of support on the planning portal. Aviation is going to look very different when normality returns, but a reset button is most of the time a good thing. It means various businesses can start again as much leaner operations. It is no different to what happened after 9/11, things always return to normal, it just keeps over-expansion and greed in check.

For those who come on to the SOU thread to advocate it is turned into housing, first of all it is designated land which cannot be used for housing. Secondly, and as I have said numerous times on this thread, people need and want to fly to Southampton and the wider Hampshire area. Like with any big city! Lastly, really take a look at yourselves if you have become so worked up about an inanimate object that you spend your days posting negative comments about it. You have really reached rock bottom if that is your life.

Also, another gentle reminder to keep ignoring the resident troll. Unfortunately a couple of posters have taken a few bites which will sustain him for another few weeks on here no doubt.

[SealinkBF]

Totally agree, and add their comments of support on the planning portal. Aviation is going to look very different when normality returns, but a reset button is most of the time a good thing. It means various businesses can start again as much leaner operations. It is no different to what happened after 9/11, things always return to normal, it just keeps over-expansion and greed in check.

For those who come on to the SOU thread to advocate it is turned into housing, first of all it is designated land which cannot be used for housing. Secondly, and as I have said numerous times on this thread, people need and want to fly to Southampton and the wider Hampshire area. Like with any big city! Lastly, really take a look at yourselves if you have become so worked up about an inanimate object that you spend your days posting negative comments about it. You have really reached rock bottom if that is your life.

Also, another gentle reminder to keep ignoring the resident troll. Unfortunately a couple of posters have taken a few bites which will sustain him for another few weeks on here no doubt.

The railways seem to get unlimited funding. Why not airlines at this time?

[LTNman]

The railways seem to get unlimited funding. Why not airlines at this time?

While is it justified to pump money into the railways spending unlimited sums on airlines so someone can have a cheap weekend away is not.

As I pointed out in the VS thread Virgin only employ just over 7000 staff so a bailout could be in the region of £100,000 per employee.

Folk need to remember that bailouts will have to be paid for one day by the tax payer. Southampton will survive but people need to be realistic in their aspirations as to what the government pays for.

[Rivet Joint]

The railways seem to get unlimited funding. Why not airlines at this time?

I agree, domestic air travel plays a part in this country's transport infrastructure whether people like it or not. There seem to be two issues though when it comes to funding, firstly any funding appears to go towards preposterous routes that even on paper don't sound like they are necessary. Personally, if you live in the middle of nowhere you have to go without certain things, air travel should certainly be one of them. Secondly and most importantly the emission figures are always damming when you compare air travel with other modes of transport, so it would be an own-goal for the government to promote air travel. I suspect that these figures are not strictly correct, as transport routes on land are congested, so assuming a land journey runs as smoothly as a flight is stupid (there is a lot of stopping and starting not to mention impacting on other users of land routes). The air travel industry does not seem to learn its lesson though, a crisis comes along and strips everything back to the essentials, only for ridiculous routes like NQY - ABZ etc to appear when things are good. The failure of the A380 is another example of how ridiculous the air industry is.

[SWBKCB]

only for ridiculous routes like NQY - ABZ etc to appear when things are good.

NQY-ABZ has run for years.

[Wycombe]

Must be very little demand on the current one daily Aurigny GCI>>SOU>>GCI as I see a Do228 has been used today.

[stewyb]

Must be very little demand on the current one daily Aurigny GCI>>SOU>>GCI as I see a Do228 has been used today.

I believe GCI along with JER are now predominantly lifeline services for islanders using the hospital!

[SKOJB]

Marlhill Copse is receiving a major haircut of the larger trees as we speak and will be complete within two weeks!

[adfly]

TUI have put flights and holidays to Palma for sale for 2021 and the frequency has returned to 2 weekly (Tue/Sat) both operated by Volotea.

Bookable between 25/05 and 23/10 (operates Sat only in October).

[Auxtank]

Neil Garwood's on his way out...

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18365674.neil-garwood-steps-almost-decade-southampton-airport/

[adfly]

Not much to discuss in terms of what is happening at the moment at the airport, but I'll summarise below. Probably the quietest it has been since WW2 from a commercial perspective!

- Aurigny flying 5x weekly to Guernsey (Mon-Fri) on an ATR72.
- Blue Islands flying 3x weekly to Jersey (Mon, Weds, Fri) on an ATR72.
- Medical flights also being accommodated.

Thought it would be interesting to start to have a look into where things will be when things slowly start to improve. As it stands, Aurigny, Blue Islands, Loganair and Eastern are all expecting to be operating a fairly normal schedule from 1st June. This is of course an arbitrary date subject to change (next weeks planned announcement regarding the gradual wind back of lockdown measures will be key to this), and while full schedules are on sale I would expect a gradual ramp up of frequencies is what actually happens.

One thing that is clear is that international travel is likely to be limited for a least the next few months. For SOU, this may not be such a bad thing, as the loss of Flybe 2 months ago already gave the airport the knockout blow for that traffic 3-4 weeks before most other UK airports felt the same. Don't get me wrong it was still awful news and I have the upmost sympathy for anyone who was affected by Flybe and Covid-19. However, as it stands the only current services that will be affected by this is the weekly TUI flight to Palma, and a delay to Eastern starting Dublin (although I could see a situation where travel in the 'common travel area' (UK, ROI, IOM, CI) is opened up more eagerly than to the rest of Europe). The current SOU route selection is otherwise entirely domestic and to the channel isles.

Otherwise, I think subject to the testing situation improving in the UK (ramping up track and trace, getting a reliable antibody test) we could see a fairly quick bounce back of domestic flying in the UK. There will be some losses from individuals being wary of using any forms of public transport, and the continuation of home working in some areas, but these may be offset to an extent by leisure travellers choosing to travel within the UK rather than overseas as it will be perceived as 'safer'. The recent EZY route announcements seem to support this view (I am aware much of this will be back filling former Flybe capacity). They are increasing frequencies on EDI/GLA-BHX and most BFS-UK routes this winter, and starting a daily MAN-ABZ route at the end of August. I did see a suggestion on another thread that the increase in flights from BFS would require an extra aircraft to be based there, potentially allowing for an extra route to be added?

Pure speculation, but I wonder what the chances are of them starting BFS-SOU are, and if demand would be sufficient to sustain a ~twice daily service to appeal to business travellers? In its absence, I expect that Eastern will increase SOU-BHD once demand does increase and they have aircraft and crew available. It would be good for the area to see them expand their base a little and employ some of the former Flybe staff.

Be interesting to hear other peoples thoughts on this, but it would be good to keep it as a reasoned discussion and to refrain from too much doom mongering (though it would be naive not to properly acknowledge the current situation we are in).