Virgin Australia recruitment

[Slippery_Pete]

I guess what it comes down to is this.

Don’t ever work for a subsidiary or regional arm of the Company which is your ultimate goal.

If your ultimate goal is Virgin, don’t work for VARA or Tiger.

If your ultimate goal is mainline, don’t work for Cobham, QLink on the Dash or Jetstar. People are getting trapped.

Last question... if you can actually afford it or have a backup plan, what about resigning? If you resign - does that remove the restriction so you can go straight into the job you’re “on hold” for? I expect very few people would be in a family or financial position to be able to do that.

[romeocharlie]

I guess what it comes down to is this.

Don’t ever work for a subsidiary or regional arm of the Company which is your ultimate goal.

If your ultimate goal is Virgin, don’t work for VARA or Tiger.

If your ultimate goal is mainline, don’t work for Cobham, QLink on the Dash or Jetstar. People are getting trapped.

Last question... if you can actually afford it or have a backup plan, what about resigning? If you resign - does that remove the restriction so you can go straight into the job you’re “on hold” for? I expect very few people would be in a family or financial position to be able to do that.


I think you'll find in the future, the ONLY way to mainline will be through the subsidiaries first. The last question - it has been publicly announced if you're an internal on hold, if you resign from the subsidiary, your application is void.

[27/09]

Good question Slippery. At Qlink, the answer to your question was clearly spelt out in a letter from the Qlink chief pilot to those on the mainline hold file. It stated that if you resign from Qlink, your mainline offer will become null and void. Check mate!

As stated above, the fasted pathway to mainline has been to resign from the group first, then apply to mainline.

Sure that offer will become null and void, but it seems for some at least in the short term it's worthless anyway.

What would happen to someone who had an offer, who then resigned to go elsewhere (for a short time) and then at a later date applied as an external. I bet they'd get an interview like anyone else.

[Fonz121]

ATR.

You know that worst case scenario you still have career progression but you probably won't need it because QF or Jetstar will snap you up first.

[jetlikespeeds]

Qantaslink Dash 8 or Virgin ATR?

If one were to have both offers, what's the best option?

If you want to get into Virgin later on then go for Qlink Dash 8. If you want to fly for Qantas Mainline or any other of their jet subsidiaries then go for the ATR gig, such is the nature of the game. Unfortunately, due to not wanting to affect staffing levels at the regional parts of their own business, they are prepared to say goodbye to pilots that leave to go to other operators rather than promote from within and treat their staff with respect.

JLS.

["Littlebird"]

If you want to get into Virgin later on then go for Qlink Dash 8. If you want to fly for Qantas Mainline or any other of their jet subsidiaries then go for the ATR gig, such is the nature of the game. Unfortunately, due to not wanting to affect staffing levels at the regional parts of their own business, they are prepared to say goodbye to pilots that leave to go to other operators rather than promote from within and treat their staff with respect.

JLS.

And there lies the problem folks. For every five pilots that are not retained and manage to leave Qlink or VAA ATR, a couple would be lost forever to overseas operators. Not everyone can return to Aus at a later date due to various circumstances otherwise everybody including myself would do or would have. If the airlines can't see the impedending wreck just over the horizon then gods speed to them.
With the US being so short as well, some airlines that actually forward plan are contempleting taking just about every applicant they can with an ATPL, 3000 hrs, English level 6 and most important the personality and attitude to be trained. Of course this means a significant investment from the employer but what's the alternative going to be moving forward?
In addition some major airlines are investigating options to do something they said they would never do. Yes open new bases all over the world including Aus. You lucky buggers! I wish I was a tad younger. L.B

[Jeps]

Interesting point L.B. Whilst the boys and girls at EK will tell you the chances of them opening bases overseas are none and Buckley’s and with good reason, perhaps the hand will be forced in time. Just think of the spin. “Global basing options for a truly global airline.”

[ElZilcho]

I'm not sure how the Seniority list works at Virgin, however one thing to consider is the long term.

Yes, sitting at VARA for 7+ years while new hires go onto the Jets might be a hard pill to swallow... but down the line, once you've finally escaped the Turbo-Props and secured a Jet Job, wouldn't an extra 7 years Seniority ensure a Widebody command that much quicker?

Just an outside observation. The reason Air NZ Link lose so many Pilots externally is because their seniority lists are entirely separate from the Jet Fleets so Pilots lose nothing by leaving. Would be a very different story if we had a group seniority list.

["Littlebird"]

I'm not sure how the Seniority list works at Virgin, however one thing to consider is the long term.

Yes, sitting at VARA for 7+ years while new hires go onto the Jets might be a hard pill to swallow... but down the line, once you've finally escaped the Turbo-Props and secured a Jet Job, wouldn't an extra 7 years Seniority ensure a Widebody command that much quicker?

Just an outside observation. The reason Air NZ Link lose so many Pilots externally is because their seniority lists are entirely separate from the Jet Fleets so Pilots lose nothing by leaving. Would be a very different story if we had a group seniority list.

ElZilcho - I admire your optimism. So it seems seniority works OK unless you're on the ATR where it doesn't.
Let's examine the wide body command scenario if you're on the props.
1. 5-7 years on the ATR
2. 10 + yrs 737 FO
3. 5 + yrs 737 CAPT

That's 20 years as a minimum before you're a skipper on the 330 or 777. Then you've got the earlier retirement age due to the role. Also remember that VAA has only around 10 widebody aircraft in total.
All the best.
L.B

[ElZilcho]

ElZilcho - I admire your optimism. So it seems seniority works OK unless you're on the ATR where it doesn't.
Let's examine the wide body command scenario if you're on the props.
1. 5-7 years on the ATR
2. 10 + yrs 737 FO
3. 5 + yrs 737 CAPT

That's 20 years as a minimum before you're a skipper on the 330 or 777. Then you've got the earlier retirement age due to the role. Also remember that VAA has only around 10 widebody aircraft in total.
All the best.
L.B

Oh yea, there's no doubt it's a long wait to the LHS of a Jet, but my question was more to do with promotion based on seniority.

In the above scenario, compare 2 Pilots starting on the 737. Pilot A was on the ATR for 5-7 years while Pilot B was an external hire. Does Pilot A have a Seniority number 5-7 years ahead of Pilot B due to their time in VARA, or do they both get similar numbers when joining the Jets?

Honest question as I have no clue how Seniority works at Virgin. If my years as a Link Pilot counted towards my Jet Seniority I never would of left to fly Jets externally and would be 6 years higher up the list. Since that wasn't the case, I had no reservations about leaving the group.

[27/09]

If my years as a Link Pilot counted towards my Jet Seniority I never would of left to fly Jets externally and would be 6 years higher up the list. Since that wasn't the case, I had no reservations about leaving the group.

You're probably better off than you may have been if you were stayed at the Air NZ Link, seniority or no seniority at the Air NZ jet fleet.

While group seniority is a great idea in theory, unless there is a commitment to hire from the Air NZ Link group by the Air NZ jet fleet then the group seniority will be a handcuff with no benefits. I know of quite a few guys who jumped ahead by leaving the Links to go to an outside jet job and very soon after got a Air NZ jet job ahead of guys that had stayed at the links.

[donkey767]

On another note, I see pilot applications for Virgin have closed (unless you want to fokker it in WA). Have they got a full deck of cards again or are they trying to manage the people they have in the system before they continue?

I'd be interested to know their numbers at the moment too. A little birdy told me external 737 AUS recruiting has stopped for the time being (unsure whether this is true or not). Can anyone shed some light on the time frame from ref checks to receiving a call for the hold file or a course date?

[ElZilcho]

You're probably better off than you may have been if you were stayed at the Air NZ Link, seniority or no seniority at the Air NZ jet fleet.

While group seniority is a great idea in theory, unless there is a commitment to hire from the Air NZ Link group by the Air NZ jet fleet then the group seniority will be a handcuff with no benefits. I know of quite a few guys who jumped ahead by leaving the Links to go to an outside jet job and very soon after got a Air NZ jet job ahead of guys that had stayed at the links.

In the short term, I agree 100%. It's been a real talking point in recent years with Externals being hired over Link Pilots... many of whom are ex Link Pilots themselves.

However, if my Seniority number on the Jet Fleet reflected my Link join date, I'd be an A320 Captain rather than an FO and I'd probably see a Widebody Command in my late 40's/early 50's. That's the difference between getting a number at 25 early 30's. An extra 6 years in the LHS of a Widebody is a fair chuck of cash.

Honestly, I see the Pro's and Con's of a Joint List. For those joining at the bottom, it's a long wait to get in a Jet while the company tightens the noose. But in 20-30 years time, perhaps it'll pay off? With only a small Widebody Fleet at Virgin, a lot of Pilots will never see the LHS of one.

[Gligg]

are folks generally being advised if they are on hold?

[havick]

ElZilcho - I admire your optimism. So it seems seniority works OK unless you're on the ATR where it doesn't.
Let's examine the wide body command scenario if you're on the props.
1. 5-7 years on the ATR
2. 10 + yrs 737 FO
3. 5 + yrs 737 CAPT

That's 20 years as a minimum before you're a skipper on the 330 or 777. Then you've got the earlier retirement age due to the role. Also remember that VAA has only around 10 widebody aircraft in total.
All the best.
L.B

What’s the pay difference between a 737 FO and an ATR CA?

["Littlebird"]

Can you give some examples as to who these majors you speak of?

Qatar, Singapore, Lufthansa with Norwegian leading the charge at the moment. Still early days but very keen to have this sorted asap. 2018 is going to be an interesting year.

Significant prop command might be OK, SO not really and jet time above 40T best.

All the best...I Hope this helps.

[KRUSTY 34]

From what I’ve seen of the 2015 domestic EBA, the base salaries are not that dissimilar for a level one 737 F/O and 1st year ATR Capt.

Not sure of the criteria to move up the levels on the jet, but a level 3 F/O on the 737 appears to have a base about 30% greater than an ATR captain of comparable years of service. Then there’s overtime and allowances.

[Chemical Ali]

Hey Gmac115,

I had an interview/sim with them in October (F100) and was emailed back 2 weeks later without an offer and my references were not contacted. One other applicant I kept in contact with (Kingerair 350 Instructor with CAE) had his references checked with a further Skype interview with management - I think he might have made it through.

[Aureus]

Hi guys/girls, does anyone have any recent information or advice regarding the assessment?

[Bumble_Pilot]

Everyone I've heard is you get the phone call for a start date, no telling if you're on the hold. The old no news is good news it seems. Seems some people get a phone call after a few days, some months upon months...

[Gypsy8]

They should send you and an email stating you are on the hold file pending reference checks.

[Dragun]

If the EBA that is being voted on now gets up - and it looks like it will - a new hire onto the 737 will be on a base of $125,347 increasing to $128,167 in July this year. After one year of service (and assuming another click over to July next year and so on), $139,819 and $155,637 respectively. You increase to the next level after one year of service.

[Narnia Bound]

Do those figures include Super? I noticed the previous Long Haul EBA included super in the remuneration numbers but the new EBA does not.

[Narnia Bound]

On a separate note, any SYD based 73 FOs able to shed some light on typical roster (PM if you prefer). Trying to get an idea on how far out of Sydney one could live and still manage the drive times. Yes, I know a "typical roster" probably doesn't exist; just looking for indicative trip lengths, standby days and RDOs in a row between trips.

[Jimnhorace]

Quoted figures do NOT include super.

[turbantime]

Rosters are completely random so no point in giving you an indicative roster. You can bid for trips or day trips, but are never guaranteed. Pilots living as far as Bowral and Central Coast seem to make it work.

Considering this is a recruitment thread, would you be in line for a 737 f/o gig off the street?

[Narnia Bound]

Completely random is a good enough answer.....it at least lets me know that there is no common or "normal" pattern from which to work, hence live further away at your own risk. I suppose you can make it work from anywhere depending on your circumstances. As for whether I'd be in the running for a 737 f/o job off the street - I don't know. I hope so but make no assumptions. Either way, I'd just like to be armed with as much information as I can to make an informed decision if I'm fortunate enough to have the opportunity.

[Stretch06]

Considering this is a recruitment thread, would you be in line for a 737 f/o gig off the street?

Yes. I know of a few people who have received 737F/O upon offer of employment.

[Brakerider]

Plenty of people are now receiving MEL/SYD/PER 737 FO offers

[turbantime]

Getting a 737 gig off the street is great for those lucky enough to get it.

We bid for certain lifestyle parameters such as block of days off, trips etc but they are never guaranteed, heck your bids are sometimes completely ignored by the system. Only thing guaranteed is the min DDO’s which alternate between 11 and 12 per 28 day roster cycle. The new eba being voted on will provide some very good protections around these DDO’s.

[White and Fluffy]

I hear BNE basing for new starts is also being offered! Should keep the moral high for those bidding internally.

With separate adds now up for 737/777 and ATR with very similar requirements, why would any one apply for ATR.

[surfer rosa]

How about over in Kiwiland.....still short?

[Goat Whisperer]

Rosa: yes. Perpetually.

[Goat Whisperer]

For those following from home: the Virgin Australia narrowbody pilot EBA was voted up, 73/27 with a very high participation rate. The document will be available on the Fair Work website soon.

[logansi]

I hear BNE basing for new starts is also being offered! Should keep the moral high for those bidding internally.

With separate adds now up for 737/777 and ATR with very similar requirements, why would any one apply for ATR.

These latest ads have me a bit confused:

Direct Entry First Officers Turbo-prop
Minimum total flight time of 400 hours of which:
300 hours in command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane (excluding ICUS), or,
Be a graduate of the Virgin Australia Cadet Pilot programme
A current Australian ATPL or CPL with passes in all ATPL theory subjects
Australian Multi Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating (or in Cyclic programme)
English language Level 6 on licence
A current Australian Class 1 Medical Certificate

Direct Entry Second Officers

Minimum total flight time of 500 hours of which:
Minimum of 300 hours in multi engine or turboprop aircraft, or,
Be a graduate of the Virgin Australia Cadet Pilot programme
A current Australian ATPL or CPL with passes in all ATPL theory subjects
Australian Multi Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating (or in Cyclic programme)
English language Level 6 on licence
A current Australian Class 1 Medical Certificate.

Direct Entry First Officers Jet

Minimum total flight time of 500 hours of which:
300 hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane (excluding ICUS), or,
200 hours in Command of multi engine aircraft (excluding ICUS), or,
Be a graduate of the Virgin Australia Cadet Pilot programme
A current Australian ATPL or CPL with passes in all ATPL theory subjects
Australian Multi Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating (or in Cyclic programme)
English language Level 6 on licence
A current Australian Class 1 Medical Certificate

https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/about-us/careers/flight-crew-pilot-recruitment/#requirements

Why, at least as advertised are the mins for S/O's higher than for DE 737 F/O's? According to the above the S/O job states min of 300 multi while the F/O job includes 'or' - is this correct?

Also what the real chances of a 500-800 hour pilot with little multi-time outside of the initial endorsement getting a look even at the ATR?

[Titan Slave]

Well considering a friend of mine who started a couple of months ago as a 737 driver says in induction HR mentioned cadets will soon be going straight into the RHS of a 737...I’d say pretty damn high.

["Littlebird"]

Well considering a friend of mine who started a couple of months ago as a 737 driver says in induction HR mentioned cadets will soon be going straight into the RHS of a 737...I’d say pretty damn high.

Yes can't wait until the cadets do. My sources tell me that just about everyone left on the ATR will resign soon after.
L.B

[MonsterC01]

My understanding is that the cadets going to the 737 in the future has more to do with CASA than Virgin. CASA are worried that standards and experience within the ATR training department are increasing the risks associated with cadets occupying operating seats during RPT operations. And that this was a concern even before the CBR hard landing incident.

[Goat Whisperer]

The "cadets to Aus 737" plan is on.. off... on... off...

[Narnia Bound]

As I understand it, BNE is a pipe dream for any new join and PER is full for 737 FO. Can anyone shed some light on how long one realistically needs to wait before a transfer from SYD or MEL to one of those locations is likely.....talking 737.

[aussie1234]

Years, how many? Who knows but it will be years

[Brakerider]

Years, how many? Who knows but it will be years

As said above, new hires are being awarded SYD and MEL 737 FO slots. Are they a once off? Who knows

[Dragun]

Strong internal rumour that 50 new commands to be announced soon and another 50 by the end of the year. If that happens you'll be able to take your pick of bases, new hire or not.

[Goat Whisperer]

It makes no sense to me but the ranks of training captains are swelling.

TCs leaving? Pilots leaving? Recruitment surge? I dunno, mate, I just work here.

[Bumble_Pilot]

Most if not all from the ATR have requested a later start date awaiting some decision. Big Trouble In Little Downunder :uhoh:
L.B
What do you mean by the ATR having a later start date? This decision by applicants or the company? And what is the reason behind it?

["Littlebird"]

What do you mean by the ATR having a later start date? This decision by applicants or the company? And what is the reason behind it?

What I said was 'most if not all from the ATR have requested a later start date awaiting some decision' not the 'ATR having a later start date'.
A significant amount of ATR pilots have successfully interviewed and subsequently been offered contracts in Asia. The majority of applicants have requested a later start date with the new employer as they are apparently waiting on the results of their last bid prior to deciding what's next.

Maybe someone in the know can elaborate...

[surfer rosa]

In the past couple of weeks alone I've seen or heard of 1 assessment day with all 6 applicants from the ATR (all FO's). I've also heard of a couple of Fokker jet pilots (FO's) and several 777 SO's interviewing.

L.B

What are the 777 SOs interviewing for? To move to the Fokker? Doesn't make a helluva lot of sense to me......

[walesregent]

What are the 777 SOs interviewing for? To move to the Fokker? Doesn't make a helluva lot of sense to me......

Is there an exceptionally long road to upgrade to FO on the 777?

[Berealgetreal]

Is there an exceptionally long road to upgrade to FO on the 777?

About 20 years for a new joiner.

[walesregent]

About 20 years for a new joiner.

That's a pretty long wait- how about likelihood of fleet transfer to the 737 once the type freeze is lifted?

[Goat Whisperer]

That's a pretty long wait- how about likelihood of fleet transfer to the 737 once the type freeze is lifted?

The likelihood is close to 100%... but the timeframe is a little hazy. 2-4 years??

[jasonrf]

So for a new joiner what would be the best fleet to try and get onto? (assuming you met all the requirements)

[Berealgetreal]

Personally I think the 777. You get to have a look at that operation and work out how you feel about long haul. You eventually will end up on the 737 where you will probably spend a significant portion of your career. If you are living in Canberra the ATR as I think there is a base there.

Beyond that some choose to stick around for a 73 command and others opt for a wide body FO. Everybody has different needs and circumstances, there are a lot of options to choose from.

[Icarus2001]

https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3744/Flight%20Crew%20Opportunities%20-%20First%20%20Second%20Officer%20positions%20-%20Australia%20%20New%20Zealand%202018

That will probably be the story "for the foreseeable future". If you look at some retirements and pilots leaving for overseas then demand will be healthy. Especially if the world economy picks up.

[nefarious1]

457 visas anyone?

[Biggles24]

A few years ago (2015-2016) Virgin posted on AFAP for Auckland based pilots and the requirements stated that both Australian or NZ ATPL theory papers were required.
However, for the latest set of reqs NZ ATPLs have been left off.
It this yet another example of an HR department not actually understanding what actually is suitable, or was this actually intentional?

[krismiler]

Surely under TTMR either ATPL would be acceptable? Virgin wanted local theory exams rather than having people head off to the US and doing a quick FAA ATP.

[Icarus2001]

https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/converting-overseas-licences

[Gypsy8]

Anyone got a start date in March on the 737?

[Gypsy8]

What’s your experience gypsy?

6000 hours and yours?

[WAoverthere]

Hey All, hoping someone with prior experience can shed some light.

I went through the whole process, got through the AD. That was about 4-5 weeks ago. But I have heard absolutely nothing. I have come to the conclusion that I did not make the cut, which I can accept and continue to improve myself on.
But I have received no "No Thank you" Email, no phone calls, my Current Status on my application still reads Invite Accepted

I would think that sending the no thank's email is a quick process, has anyone else had to wait this long for one ?

[Gligg]

Over there - some people receive a no after a year or more of silence, some receive a yes after a similar wait. Some have their references checked before they leave the car park?
Best thing at this stage is perhaps to take the ‘no news is good news’ philosophy and start picking out a nice tie for the next interview.

[Snakecharma]

The guy who is running recruitment has been appointed to another managerial role and has been a tad busy.

I would expect that once he gets his stuff sorted he will get back to the recruiting stuff.

[jjhews]

Anyone know what the FO 737 bond period and bond price is?

[Goat Whisperer]

Anyone know what the FO 737 bond period and bond price is?

Under the 2018 EBA (yet to be ratified by FWA)

$15,000 less than Level 1 FO for first year
$15,000 bond over 36 months, reducing pro rata.

[jjhews]

Under the 2018 EBA (yet to be ratified by FWA)

$15,000 less than Level 1 FO for first year
$15,000 bond over 36 months, reducing pro rata.

Wonderful, thanks Goat Whisperer.

[Altimeters]

Not withstanding;

71.2 Following an endorsement which Virgin Australia has paid for, Virgin Australia may require that a Pilot:

(a) Be frozen on the aircraft type to which they were endorsed for a minimum of 36 months from the date of successful completion of the initial simulator type and instrument rating check rides; and

(b) Repay $45,000 (on a reducing pro-rata basis, calculated monthly) if their employment with Virgin Australia comes to an end (other than by way of redundancy, for medical or compassionate reasons or retirement) during the 36 month period.

[jasonrf]

Does anyone have preview of what the 737/fokker rosters are like?

[Altimeters]

Does anyone have preview of what the 737/fokker rosters are like?

Asking for a roster is irrelevant. People bid for what suits their lifestyle. Some want trips, some want day trips, some want weekends etc. I’m sitting on about 70hrs a month. Some people are doing more. It’s just how the cookie crumbles.

[skysook]

Asking for a roster is irrelevant. People bid for what suits their lifestyle. Some want trips, some want day trips, some want weekends etc. I’m sitting on about 70hrs a month. Some people are doing more. It’s just how the cookie crumbles.

Can’t speak for the Fokker. However, east coast 737 is around 70-85 flight hours per 28 day roster. Minimum guaranteed 11-12 days off per month. There is a mix of day duties, overnights and multi-day trips. There is also the option of part time 50%, 75% and roster on/roster off. Obviously, there is a waiting list for these.

[Berealgetreal]

A roster can also be affected by which base you are in.

Are you choosing between the two?

[aviator777]

Given how busy recruitment is, how long is it taking to hear back on new applications? (VA, not subsidiaries)

[jasonrf]

A roster can also be affected by which base you are in.

Are you choosing between the two?

Yes I'm looking at both. And also looking in comparison to my roster now. The amount of Guaranteed off days is good

[Aureus]

Given how busy recruitment is, how long is it taking to hear back on new applications? (VA, not subsidiaries)

3 months from application submitted to online tests.

[2020Balance]

Anyone know an approximate start date time frame from receiving a hold file email ?

[Bumble_Pilot]

Anyone know an approximate start date time frame from receiving a hold file email ?

Impossible to tell. I know people that got a start date pretty much the second they walked out the door, others have been on the hold for 8 months and haven’t been told anything. Seems like if you have what they want (TT, multi/turbine, MCC, multi crew time etc) then you’re straight in or else you wait for them to have no choice to give you a start date :)

[O for awesome]

Hi Folks,

Just a few questions regarding the Kiwi side of things that I hope someone will be kind enough to answer. Do Virgin normally run separate intakes and courses for the NZ operation? How many aircraft based in CHC? How many hours per roster may one expect? The latest NZ EBA I can find online is from 2013, any updates?

Thanks in advance.

[Aussie-kiwi]

Pop into the VA office at CHC airport (over the road from Sudima beside the toll office). I am sure they would be helpful and answer your questions, or at least give you a managers card to email them if a manager was not available (-: Good luck!

As far as a CEA/EBA goes, VA recruitment were very happy to email me one. If you email them, it shows you are serious and I am sure they will oblige.
Hi Folks,

Just a few questions regarding the Kiwi side of things that I hope someone will be kind enough to answer. Do Virgin normally run separate intakes and courses for the NZ operation? How many aircraft based in CHC? How many hours per roster may one expect? The latest NZ EBA I can find online is from 2013, any updates?

Thanks in advance.

[Props _are_for_boats]

Anyone know an approximate start date time frame from receiving a hold file email ?

I got the hold file email about a month ago haven’t heard anything yet, but apparently one of the guys in my interview group got an August start date.

[Altimeters]

Company email this week suggests no more externals onto the B737 for VAA. They will be building up their hold file on all fleets and still will be taking applicants onto the B777, VANZ B737 and ATR aircraft until at least the end of 2018.

[Props _are_for_boats]

Company email this week suggests no more externals onto the B737 for VAA. They will be building up their hold file on all fleets and still will be taking applicants onto the B777, VANZ B737 and ATR aircraft until at least the end of 2018.

Thanks Altimeters, my preference was for the 777, so hopefully I’m still in with a shout.

[t_cas]

Keywords
“This week”.......... and “suggests”
Good luck to all prospective applicants.

[Props _are_for_boats]

Has Anyone received or know of someone who has been given a start date recently ?

[Gligg]

Has Anyone received or know of someone who has been given a start date recently ?

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/03/virgin-australia-advanced-pilot-cadets-graduate/

[Capt Fathom]

my preference was for the 777, so hopefully I’m still in with a shout.
Why would you prefer to be an SO on a 777 rather than an FO on a 737 / ATR?
SO time doesn’t count toward much does lt?

[Props _are_for_boats]

Why would you prefer to be an SO on a 777 rather than an FO on a 737 / ATR?
SO time doesn’t count toward much does lt?

It would be more for a lifestyle preference ‘I think’ I haven’t done any long haul yet...but it seems as if most people move from the SO long haul position to be able to fly again not because of the lifestyle.737 FO would be a great option too but I think from what was said previously in the thread that could be a pipe dream now.

[pilotchute]

So has anyone been contacted for an interview after they pasted ads all over AFAP earlier in the year?

I heard it may just have been a CV stockpiling exercise.

[O for awesome]

Appreciate the answer Aussie-kiwi, tried to PM you but couldn't. Anyone else care to add more? Thanks

[Sea1993]

Has anyone from NZ who went through the hiring process in NZ last year and got a ' yes' got a start date yet?

[Sea1993]

I personally know of 3 people who applied for NZ ops last year and were checked to line in October 2017.

Thanks KittyBlue that's promising to hear about the NZ ops, I understand there were interviews in Nz late 2017 around Sept I'm just checking whether any of those that were successful have a start date yet?

[Superawsome]

Hey has anyone in the hold file heard anything yet?

[Icarus2001]

If that is verbatim, what they had written, then they need to go back to school and pay attention this time.

[Superawsome]

I emailed HR a few days after being put on the hold last month:

"...we have slowed our B737 recruitment and at the current time don’t have any forecasted schools currently. In terms of B777 training schools; there are forecasted courses for the year however we have not received confirmed contract or endorsement start dates. Until the dates are confirmed, we are unable to place candidates from our hold file onto training schools"

Thankfully there are plenty of other options out there right now.


When is the forecasted courses for the 777? Hopefully not too long

[pilotchute]

So they plastered ads on AFAP and don't know when courses are?

[Chocks Away]

ICARUS2001 - "...they need to go back to school and pay attention this time.

They sure do! It looks like typical USA diction corrections from the computer, not the real English. I cringe when I see stuff like that from HR's & "managements".

Happy landings:ok:

[Superawsome]

I think people on hold files are going to hear from VA in AUG-Nov.

[Aureus]

I think people on hold files are going to hear from VA in AUG-Nov.

Hey superawsome any reasoning behind this or just a hunch? I've noticed they've opened up another ATR DEC campaign this time targeting non-Australians so it would seem that people on the hold file should hear sooner rather than later.

[Superawsome]

Its just a guess. I hope so coz Ive turned down 2 other job offers in hopes of them calling me.




Hey superawsome any reasoning behind this or just a hunch? I've noticed they've opened up another ATR DEC campaign this time targeting non-Australians so it would seem that people on the hold file should hear sooner rather than later.

[206greaser]

You did what?! LOL!

[Bumble_Pilot]

I've been told the a May course is on for the ATR but mostly cadets and possibly a couple of direct entry peeps thrown in. The next course is Nov/Dec time but not guaranteed to be going ahead (probably depends on when the Virgin ATR sim gets here). So I wouldn't hold your breath and take another position whilst you can and decide what you want to do when that phone call comes, if ever! (don't forget they cleared their hold file just a few years ago:mad:)

[Aureus]

I've been told the a May course is on for the ATR but mostly cadets and possibly a couple of direct entry peeps thrown in. The next course is Nov/Dec time but not guaranteed to be going ahead (probably depends on when the Virgin ATR sim gets here). So I wouldn't hold your breath and take another position whilst you can and decide what you want to do when that phone call comes, if ever! (don't forget they cleared their hold file just a few years ago:mad:)

Thanks for the info! Any updates on 777 courses? I thought there would be few of those going on throughout the year.

[Bumble_Pilot]

Thanks for the info! Any updates on 777 courses? I thought there would be few of those going on throughout the year.

Once again I hear the next course for the 777 is for the advance cadets and the next one planned will be for the ab-initio guys finishing Aug/Sep time

[Superawsome]

Everyone saying something different. I think people on hold file will not be called this year by the sounds of it.

[Flydawg]

Surely under TTMR either ATPL would be acceptable? Virgin wanted local theory exams rather than having people head off to the US and doing a quick FAA ATP.

What is wrong with the FAA ATP? Why is it frowned on, from what I understand it’s more relevant than CASA ATPL.

[pilotchute]

There is nothing wrong with it. It just depends who makes the rules this week.

One Aussie 320 operator wouldn't accept overseas type ratings one minute then sent people overseas for type the next!

[Flydawg]

hmmm interesting, I would like to do the FAA ones opens up more doors and less wait times for left hand seat i would hope....

[pilotchute]

All part 142 schools in the USA and EU (EASA) are approved training providers according to CASA. No need for any special agreement.

[havick]

What is wrong with the FAA ATP? Why is it frowned on, from what I understand it’s more relevant than CASA ATPL.

The written tests in the USA are a joke with all the prep software/questions and everyone in Aus knows it.

That being said I have both CASA and FAA ATPL/ATP and the FAA has more flight experience and tests requirements than CASA.

[pilotchute]

Totally agree havick. Just because CASA make you do a bunch of mostly irrelevant and outdated exams doesn't make its pilots any better. You also point out that outside Australia a CASA licence is pretty useless.

If the FAA ATP is such a poor licence why aren't all the planes flown by FAA ATP holders falling from the sky?

[havick]

Totally agree havick. Just because CASA make you do a bunch of mostly irrelevant and outdated exams doesn't make its pilots any better. You also point out that outside Australia a CASA licence is pretty useless.

If the FAA ATP is such a poor licence why aren't all the planes flown by FAA ATP holders falling from the sky?

I’m not suggesting that one license is superior than another. My 2c is that the CASA written tests take more effort, whereas perhaps up until the recent CASA part61 introduction, the FAA ATP was more difficult to obtain from a aeronautical experience and flight test perspective.

In my experience the FAA license is more widely accepted by the rest of the world than a CASA license.

All moot points as this is a Virgin Australia recruitment thread. Simply backing up what a previous poster pointed out.

[Superawsome]

Had anyone heard anything yet???

[O for awesome]

Thanks KittyBlue that's promising to hear about the NZ ops, I understand there were interviews in Nz late 2017 around Sept I'm just checking whether any of those that were successful have a start date yet?

With the increased trans Tasman services due to commence in October, this will hopefully provide opportunities to those waiting for a start in the land of the long white cloud. It sure would be an awesome job.

[DUXNUTZ]

Apparently some recent movement off the 737 to the competition of late.

[Altimeters]

And 777...

[Superawsome]

Has anyone from hold file heard anything yet???

[anonfly]

For those on the hold file, I’ve heard through the grapevine there has been a couple resignations of late. So ��some positive news is forthcoming in the near future.

[Superawsome]

For those on the hold file, I’ve heard through the grapevine there has been a couple resignations of late. So ��some positive news is forthcoming in the near future.


source??? How do u know???.

[Berealgetreal]

Rank? Fleet?

[Tuner 2]

Heard close to 100 Virgin applicants for QF mainline.

[Goat Whisperer]

there's a steady trickle out. Retirements are likely to increase now that retirees can enjoy (!) staff travel. A few young 'uns are going to Qantas.

[Setright]

Impossible to tell. I know people that got a start date pretty much the second they walked out the door, others have been on the hold for 8 months and haven’t been told anything. Seems like if you have what they want (TT, multi/turbine, MCC, multi crew time etc) then you’re straight in or else you wait for them to have no choice to give you a start date :)

Aviation equivalent........of the ''Friendzone''

[Interceptheading]

Completely disagree with Anonfly

If you’re on the hold file wanting a 737 slot then I think you’re in for a long wait. Tiger Pilots are able to come across stating June. Cadets ( ab-initial ) will be going direct to 737 due to lack of experienced training captains on the ATR. ( due to there is only 6 ATRs) Also one look at the seniority list will show a lot of NZ based pilots are about to come out of freeze and some I know wanna come back not to mention the SOs that are due out of freeze in the next 6mths.

My advice is to take the ATR, 777, F100 or a tiger position and get yourself on the GDOJ list.

IH

[Goat Whisperer]

I don't believe the post above to be correct. Cadets DEFO on Aus 737 unlikely. Most are eartagged to 777 SO seats. Some to ATR. The 777 does have the training capacity that Inceptheading rightly identifies the ATR is lacking. It would alienate and further piss off existing ATR/F100/737NZ/777SO crew if cadets were given 737 Aus.

[belongamick]

I don't believe the post above to be correct. Cadets DEFO on Aus 737 unlikely. Most are eartagged to 777 SO seats. Some to ATR. The 777 does have the training capacity that Inceptheading rightly identifies the ATR is lacking. It would alienate and further piss off existing ATR/F100/737NZ/777SO crew if cadets were given 737 Aus.
That said, the company could save a whole lot of angst amongst those pilot groups if they just came out and said so.

[Superawsome]

Has anyone from hold file heard anything yet??? Starting to completely give up :(

[Interceptheading]

Wrong Goat.

It’s a fact. Ab-inito cadets are going to 737.

Not the 777 or the ATR, they need to fly not sit in the back. If you don’t believe me, ring the unions.

IH

[Goat Whisperer]

I also heard rumours that the first batch of advanced cadets were going to 737 Aus FO, but they're all ATR FOs or 777SOs.

[Interceptheading]

Yeah the ones that just went through are in the advanced entry course. I’m talking about the an-initio Cadets that had zero flying experience. Company can’t train them then stick them in the back seat of the 777 like they can with the more advanced Cadets.

Anyhow, my advice if your on a hold file and holding out for a 737 aus base then I’d suggest you ring recruitment and say your happy for NZ, ATR, F100 or 777. Be mindful of the 10% cap for the ATR and VARA and the pay differences and time to return to Australia if you go to Enzed.

777 is my recommendation. Left the 777 a few years ago but I think the pay is a lot better now.

[C.A.L.I.S.P.A]

Fellers this happened to me a few weeks ago with regards to recruitment for the Virgin/Tiger group.
It started with an EXPRESION OF INTREST which I sent to tiger regarding a positon on the A320 in Sydney. Within a week or 2 I got an email from Virgin/Tiger saying , please go to there web site and book your self in for an interview, it was going to be based over 2 days, first day sim ride then personal interview followed by day 2 with the group activity. Within another week I get an email from Virgin/Tiger saying that the sim will be at 0800 , so be at the Ansett sim centre in YMMB at 0700 for a brief, then at 12.30 go to tiger head office for the group activity , followed by the final Interview.

So I turn up at 0700 on the Monday Morning, I am briefed with 4 other guys on a sim exercise in the 737- 400-700, I went through the flight with the CP ( Craig - EX Emirates) - he did say that the exercise went well, then at 12.30 we completed the group exercise , flight from Sydney to LA, fuel required etc etc etc, then a personal Interview - Both Virgin HR and Tiger HR were there for both the Group and personal interview, I then went on a plane home.

The following day around midday when I got a phone call from Virgin recruiting, A young Lady said have you got time to talk, I would like to DEBRIEF you on your interview yesterday ( in my 26 years in the industry this is a FIRST time this has happened) in which she debriefed me on the Interview , saying that the CP who completed the simulator was happy with my exercise and can make the transition to the jets, then on the group exercise we were happy with how you handled the situation, kept people in the loop, took other peoples discussion etc, etc ,etc, then she debriefed me on the personal interview, and discussed how the question were asked how I handled various situations and where happy with the response, BUT WHEN ASKED WHY JOIN TIGER - I gave a generic answer and am not progressing with your application, so you can not apply for the next 12 months to Tiger , but your Virgin applications are still valid.

WTF, I have been knocked back from jobs for not having the knowledge or flying skills - FAIR CALL, but been knocked back for a simple question - that is a first, what is going on ?

[Chadzat]

Think of it as your first experience of Virgin/Tiger decision making. You wont understand it even if you tried.....

[Jimnhorace]

CALISPA
I used to be involved in recruitment but can no longer stand to be involved. HR are ruining airlines from the inside and I am horrified by your experience at their hands. I bet the chief pilot and other pilots involved in the process aren’t even aware you were rejected. Given, you met the requirements otherwise, You would think something along the lines of “you have jets and I have a pulse” should have been all the response they needed.
Unbelievable. Good Luck with the “Virgin” recruitment experience.

[C.A.L.I.S.P.A]

Hi Chadzat and Jimnhorace,

Thanks for the information, yes I don't understand the decision , from looking form the oustside of Virgin/Tiger you don't see how the insides work, As I am in my 40s and looking at finishing my career in the "shinny new jet" I thought I would have an opportunity in Australia to do that, Looks like I head off overseas. Thanks

[Superawsome]

Can you still apply for tiger if you are in hold file with VA

[Berealgetreal]

Its great to get a gig in Aus with a major. Its not the end of the world if you don't however. The main thing when travelling or working abroad is to understand that you aren't in Australia anymore and just because they do things differently doesn't mean they're wrong.

Maybe it happened for a reason, maybe in 3 years time you'll say "thank god". I know people that were exactly your same boat. 10 years later they've seen the world and flown the big jets. The've enjoyed it and good on them. It all comes down to how you handle the situation, treat it as a challenge and an adventure and you won't go wrong.

[Gligg]

Easier to give someone a far fetched reason for being unsuitable than to come clean and face a discrimination case.

[stormfury]

Easier to give someone a far fetched reason for being unsuitable than to come clean and face a discrimination case.

I think you may have nailed it.

[ADawg]

HR is such a token department. They create more work and more expense for any organisation - that's about it. Apparently some companies are cancelling flights due to crew shortages yet HR are knocking people back for this sort of nonsense.

[bunghole]

I got a call a while back from HR at Virgin offering some feed back from my interview which I was very appreciative of.......... HR - You're not successful at this time as we were not sure on your motivation to work for Virgin. Me - But you asked me in the interview whether I would take a job with Tiger or Virgin so it seems a little strange that you would question my motivation to work for Virgin alone. HR- Ummmmmmmmm. HR - On a positive note you're sim was above average. Me- Great so I've demonstrated I have the ability to learn to fly the aircraft, so should be suitable for employment as an FO? HR - Well no. And also you need to learn more about our company and our aircraft types, numbers etc. Me - I know those and you didn't ask me a single question on any of the aforementioned topics. HR - Hmmmmmmmmmm. You can re-apply in 12 months. Me - Thank you kindly for the feedback.

I won't be applying again.

[Goat Whisperer]

Good strategy, bunghole, you show them. The grapes are probably sour anyway.

[Superawsome]

I got a call a while back from HR at Virgin offering some feed back from my interview which I was very appreciative of.......... HR - You're not successful at this time as we were not sure on your motivation to work for Virgin. Me - But you asked me in the interview whether I would take a job with Tiger or Virgin so it seems a little strange that you would question my motivation to work for Virgin alone. HR- Ummmmmmmmm. HR - On a positive note you're sim was above average. Me- Great so I've demonstrated I have the ability to learn to fly the aircraft, so should be suitable for employment as an FO? HR - Well no. And also you need to learn more about our company and our aircraft types, numbers etc. Me - I know those and you didn't ask me a single question on any of the aforementioned topics. HR - Hmmmmmmmmmm. You can re-apply in 12 months. Me - Thank you kindly for the feedback.

I won't be applying again.



hey sorry to hear that. When did u interview???

[pilotchute]

I love how after someone has a gripe or a whinge about a company someone always comes back with "sour grapes".
The hiring practices of some companies beggars belief and the way some people are treated is appalling. Sure some people come on hear and it is is sour grapes but judging by the amount of horror HR stories finding their way onto pprune I would say that it's a growing problem.

If Qlink/Rex etc guys and girls feel that the only way their career will progress is to go to the Middle East we have a problem.
When a HR person says no to a local pilot due to "motivation" but then turn around and say we have a pilot shortage shows massive flaws in the management of Australian air opertors

[Gate_15L]

What a load of HR crap.... when has HR ever been good for a company?

The irony being people are still getting yes from the 1st year University HR muppet, then leaving in the lead up to the training to take jobs elsewhere.. so HR can’t judge excrement about “motivation”....

[bunghole]

No sour grapes here. Just don't believe the court of common sense exists in any way shape or form in this day and age.

[Judd]

Heard a story (factual) of Australian trained pilot went overseas and got a big jet F/O job. Returned several years later for an interview with one of the domestic airlines. Interview board was one HR lady and a company pilot. On being introduced, both pilots looked at each other and realised they had learned to fly at the same flying school. To the concern of the interview board pilot, the other guy shook his hand vigorously and gave him a big bear hug with a "Gooday Maaate - haven't seen you for yonks - how yer been?"
Not exactly the way to impress an interview board one would think.. They weren't and the result showed that.

[pilotchute]

Sure that was inappropriate but what is your point?

​​​​​​A very good friend of mine had her interview resheduled 3 times and by the time she finally got there was told she didn't meet the recency requirements, which she would have even by the second reschedule. This was on top of changing her flight 3 times which cost a fortune.

HR simply exist to serve themselves.

[Berealgetreal]

bunghole, whilst 99% of our inner reactions would be the same as yours I think you should focus on the end goal whatever that may be. If in a years time you haven’t made a step toward that goal via other means (QF Etc) id advise you to reapply. 1000’s of pilots better than you and I get rejected all over the world every year for a variety of reasons. It’s not personal and even if you get the job it’s not like the employer is now your friend. It’s a workplace you give them your professional time and hey pay you. Just take it on the chin and rise above it like you would any failure during the career. If you’ve made it this far I’m sure you’ve seen a couple. HR are in charge of it and there’s no going back, play the game on the day.

[Goat Whisperer]

Bereal I disagree, the only way for bunghole to show VA's (admittedly terrible) HR department the errors of their ways is to boycott. They'll come crawling back in no time, probably with a 777 Technical Pilot position offer! That'll show em!
Bunghole, stay strong! Don't reapply. The system will crumble in no time! In no way is that attitude cutting off your nose despite your face while throwing a baby out with a bathtub full of mixed metaphors!

The only alternative I can see is treating the recruitment process as a silly and annoying hurdle you have to jump over just the once to get to a flight deck office with roughly 1,564 mostly very god colleagues flying safe aeroplanes in Australia. But what would I know.

[pilotchute]

Richard Branson was once told about a cleaner that worked for Virgin Trains and the exceptional job she did. Branson met her in person and asked why she hadn't applied to be a customer service officer or conducter?
"I have applied" she said. I never get past the application stage.
Apparently after this meeting he called his head of HR and asked why he was rejecting good people!

So Goat Whisperer in response to your tongue in cheek comment, HR get it wrong far more often than they should.
​​​

[bunghole]

Goat Whisperer. I was only putting up my experience in line with some of the previous posts to highlight that I don't particularly understand HR and the recruiting process not only at Virgin but all all Australian airlines. Motivation? It's not enough to study the process, take time off from your job, fly all over the country and pay for accommodation to go through said process. Is that not showing that you are motivated? I suspect they have plenty of candidates to choose from so I'm no great loss and not for a minute suggesting I was. I simply don't get how you can apply for a job as a PILOT fly a sim to a reasonable standard, meet all the pre-requisites and because they don't particularly like a response to a HR type question, out you go. Back to my point common sense is non existent and I'm sure it has something to do with HR justifying their very existence. What happened to a pilot sitting opposite you to see if you were a good guy/gal, throwing you in the sim to see if you could actually do what you said you could and off you go? But so be it. Not disgruntled just a little dumbfounded and probably dumb to some degree. Will try again with another carrier. Each time I become more HR aware which can't be a bad thing.

[Flyboy1987]

I’m sure something will come up for you bunghole and you won’t look back.

From what i’ve personally witnessed over the last 12-18 months is that it’s not the best candidates getting the job, but the person who interviews the best. I understand the interview is all HR really have to go off, but geez, surely someone on recruitment day can see a possible good pilot/employee when they’re sitting in front of them.
Some absolute terrible pilots have moved into the qantas group over the last 2 years. Some couldn’t hold a ga job for more than 6 months due their attitude/work ethic.
They pay their 250 bucks for pinstripe interview prep and are a completely false person on the day, i’m sure they’ll be found out sooner or later.

[surfer rosa]

I got a call a while back from HR at Virgin offering some feed back from my interview which I was very appreciative of.......... HR - You're not successful at this time as we were not sure on your motivation to work for Virgin. Me - But you asked me in the interview whether I would take a job with Tiger or Virgin so it seems a little strange that you would question my motivation to work for Virgin alone. HR- Ummmmmmmmm. HR - On a positive note you're sim was above average. Me- Great so I've demonstrated I have the ability to learn to fly the aircraft, so should be suitable for employment as an FO? HR - Well no. And also you need to learn more about our company and our aircraft types, numbers etc. Me - I know those and you didn't ask me a single question on any of the aforementioned topics. HR - Hmmmmmmmmmm. You can re-apply in 12 months. Me - Thank you kindly for the feedback.

I won't be applying again.

At least they had the decency to keep you in the loop and provide feedback. I once worked for a third rate airline who would simply ignore candidates who had made the effort to attend an assessment day but, for whatever reason, were deemed to be unsuccessful. You can now take their feedback on board and reapply in 12 months or move on and take your skills elsewhere. Either way, keep at it and you will one day end up where you want to be. Good luck.

[Popgun]

I suspect they have plenty of candidates to choose from ...

Unfortunately that comment is very true.

Qualified applications for pilot positions at the major jet airlines in Australia continue to be over-subscribed. While there remains more bums than seats, airline HR departments can continue to spin the vital importance of their worth to the organisation. Psychometric tests and behavioural interviews are very blunt instruments.

Wouldn't it be great one day to see the pilot shortage come to our tiny (cess)pond. Being wined, dined and wooed by HR 'professionals' from several companies with perhaps even large sign-on bonuses and other inducements. Yes, dreaming I know!

Maybe try getting some interview prep coaching...and best of luck next time.

PG

[mattyj]

The airline interview process is a test of your abilities to perform your job while under bureaucratic stressors in a manner not likely to distress passengers or other staff members. HR fill a certain role and your ability to endure them proves your suitability

[Berealgetreal]

No worries Goat Whisperer, I guess we have a different approach. I don't think they will come crawling back as major airlines have no shortage of people applying to them unlike the regionals. This could leave bunghole empty handed and unable to progress his/her career. Having received a rejection from a major once before I totally understand the feeling. I think its easier to play the game sometimes to have a lower stress level and achieve what you are after. Before you know it, it will be a distant memory.

A bit like security screening, we will never change it so just go along with it and save your sweat for bigger fish. Anyway thats just my take. Best of luck bunghole.

[Superawsome]

Anyone heard from hold file???? Losing hope here :(

[2020Balance]

Absolutely nothing. Don’t know the total number of people sitting on the hold file but know at least 30 that are waiting on QF starts or going through the process. Others are looking at JQ and overseas.

[surfer rosa]

Absolutely nothing. Don’t know the total number of people sitting on the hold file but know at least 30 that are waiting on QF starts or going through the process. Others are looking at JQ and overseas.

I may have this wrong but are you saying you know 30 people on the Virgin hold file who are also waiting on starts with Qantas?

[havick]

I may have this wrong but are you saying you know 30 people on the Virgin hold file who are also waiting on starts with Qantas?

I know of three recent VA new hires currently on hold four for QF waiting for their start date. I bet there’s a bunch more.

[bangbounceboeing]

I'd imagine that around 80-90 % of current 777 SO's would have an application in with QF and possibly a lot of junior 737 FO's.

[Jetsbest]

Certainly, in the last 15 years, there has been at least one Virgin pilot join Qantas, reassess the reality, and return to Virgin at the bottom of the list again. I'm not saying the decision was taken lightly, but perception can be misleading.😕😉

[Tommy Bahama]

Certainly, in the last 15 years, there has been at least one Virgin pilot join Qantas, reassess the reality, and return to Virgin at the bottom of the list again. I'm not saying the decision was taken lightly, but perception can be misleading.😕😉

But to be fair...... most that have left think its the best decision they ever made.

[Fonz121]

Next QF ground course has nine VA pilots on it.

[Berealgetreal]

Jetbest, to complete the story ... after 6 years at VA he went back to QF.

[Superawsome]

Has anyone from hold file habe any idea when they start the next course???

[davidclarke]

Next QF ground course has nine VA pilots on it.

Yep word is the QF course that started yesterday had 10 VA group pilots out of a total of 16 on the course. Wow.

[The Bullwinkle]

Yep word is the QF course that started yesterday had 10 VA group pilots out of a total of 16 on the course. Wow.
And apparently more to come.....

[aviator777]

pilotchute,

​​​​​​A very good friend of mine had her interview resheduled 3 times and by the time she finally got there was told she didn't meet the recency requirements

Do they have an informal requirement such as xxx hours TT or IFR in the last 6 months, or was it regulatory recency?

Some carriers dont list recent experience requirements in their criteria. It comes out during the knock back stage.

Thanks.

[Superawsome]

VA recruitment is dead.

[Far Canel]

VA recruitment is dead.

i would have thought with VA people moving to QF . Virgin recruitment would be far from dead?....

[Superawsome]

i would have thought with VA people moving to QF . Virgin recruitment would be far from dead?....


I say that because I know many people that have been in hold pool for over 5 months now and still heard nothing

[Berealgetreal]

Based on attrition rather than growth.

[romeocharlie]

I say that because I know many people that have been in hold pool for over 5 months now and still heard nothing

There are 180-odd pilots who have been on hold with mainline for over 12 months, calm down about 5 months.

[Interceptheading]

I’m curious. If you were called tomorrow and offered an ATR FO position would you accept it?

IH

[Unhinged]

I say that because I know many people that have been in hold pool for over 5 months now and still heard nothing

Just because you haven't been called to start doesn't mean others haven't.

[Interceptheading]

Exactly unhinged, hence my question above.
Anyone waiting for a DE 737 slot are dreaming.

[Bumble_Pilot]

Pro’s & con’s
ATR FO vs 777 SO?
Even throw in tiger 320 if you know about all.
cheers,

[Interceptheading]

DONT join as a ATR FO ( if you have a choice ) You will be stuck there forever under the 10% per base per year rule. You will be lucky to see a RH 737 in the same time you would as an RFO. The only guys on the SO list there after their 30mth freeze are those who have chosen to stay. Get your hands on a GDOJ list from someone you know and see for yourself. A significant pay difference to consider as well between the two.

You will hear lots about how the unions are planning on scraping that 10% rule. Don’t make decisions based on speculation, especially at Virgin. I’ll just say that again ESPECIALLY AT VIRGIN!!

If you’re in a position to move to a major then go jet and only jet. Don’t be stupid and think you’re to good for an RFO slot. There are currently ex fast jet drivers there who understand it’s the quickest way to a RH seat in a 737. Also a few from the 737 who have taken RFO slots purely for the lifestyle.

Tiger.... um yeah... Well, you can go to Virgin and get a new set of RMs every three years or get $21 per year uniform allowance. I’ll let you figure that one out... ( don’t quote me on the $21, but it’s ****house figure what ever it is ) and let’s just remember that all the Tiger new hires are falling over themselves to get onto the Virgin GDOJ... says a lot. Probably cause they spend all their money on car parking at ML they can’t afford RMs ... ( relax, being facetious! )

VANZ is a pretty good option, I think commuting will get very hard soon so if able I’d suggest you move over. Get yourself a 737 TR and a few hours on type and the world just opened up to you !! A few recently have gone from VANZ to China jobs and making some pretty good coin.

F100 with VARA is another option. It’s jet and few more A320s heading to the West.

You’ve gotta remember that you just need to get onto a GDOJ list and do your time. At the end of the day you will most likely spend the majority of your time in the LH seat of a 737 and you will only get that seat with time. It really doesn’t matter what you join on, you just gotta start.

IH

[dusty99]

I got a call a while back from HR at Virgin offering some feed back from my interview which I was very appreciative of.......... HR - You're not successful at this time as we were not sure on your motivation to work for Virgin. Me - But you asked me in the interview whether I would take a job with Tiger or Virgin so it seems a little strange that you would question my motivation to work for Virgin alone. HR- Ummmmmmmmm. HR - On a positive note you're sim was above average. Me- Great so I've demonstrated I have the ability to learn to fly the aircraft, so should be suitable for employment as an FO? HR - Well no. And also you need to learn more about our company and our aircraft types, numbers etc. Me - I know those and you didn't ask me a single question on any of the aforementioned topics. HR - Hmmmmmmmmmm. You can re-apply in 12 months. Me - Thank you kindly for the feedback.

I won't be applying again.
Now that is odd. I got phone call from the HR girl which pretty much went along exactly the same lines. Some stupid HR box not ticked, therefor you didn't get the job.

But hey you did great in your sim and you will be able to learn, but still doesn't matter you didn't answer this question right. Never ceases to amaze me.

[Biatch]

WTF does aviation Australia do for Virgin in the selection process??

[Stretch06]

WTF does aviation Australia do for Virgin in the selection process??

I’ve heard that Flight Experience FBT B737 is used for the sim assessment.

[2020Balance]

That Flight experience sim is a bucket of sh.. it’s been in no fewer than 4 locations over the years. Airways pulled the plug and packed up the other day leaving a few good people pissed. Things are pretty bad when candidates are doing sim evaluations in back yard home made sims for major airlines.

[Gligg]

That Flight experience sim is a bucket of sh.. it’s been in no fewer than 4 locations over the years. Airways pulled the plug and packed up the other day leaving a few good people pissed. Things are pretty bad when candidates are doing sim evaluations in back yard home made sims for major airlines.
Based on some of the sim/interview feedback mentioned in recent posts, the sim eval could equally be done in Timezone

[Stretch06]

Qlink, Cobham, Virgin have in the past or are currently still using it for sim assessments. I guess it comes down to cost. Why take up CAT D sim slots, when the same can be achieved in a fixed base for much less.

[Flyboy1987]

Based on some of the sim/interview feedback mentioned in recent posts, the sim eval could equally be done in Timezone

Plus you could play air hockey and have a frozen Pepsi while you wait your turn.

[Far Canel]

Would anyone have any information on the aptitude testing at Aviation Australia? Talentq, compass, ect
Many Thanks.

[Stilllearning1234]

Gents/Gal,

Ive notice the recruitment is open until the end of this month, but after reading all the punter’s post not many got excepted or are on hold file.
What kind of hours are they looking for and experience?

I guess I have 2 hope = > Bob Hope and No Hope....:-(

Back to pushing shopping center trolley for me!!!!!.........:-((((((

stilllearning.....1..432...

[Berealgetreal]

Plenty of virgin pilots started careers funded by pushing trolleys. Keep going.

[Interceptheading]

Told at the bar...4 hold file calls put out to fill a EOY Second Officer course and 3 turned it down opting to wait for a VAA 737 position and 1 had a start date with Cobham on 717...

[Berealgetreal]

Turned down Virgin for Cobham?

[Interceptheading]

I hope it’s not true but apparently it is.

[Anthonybrown]

Hey guys,
Has anyone heard any whispers from the VA SO hold file? Also would anyone know many courses are they are likely to shoot through this year?

Cheers,
Anthony

[donkey767]

Talk about rolling the dice!! That may be the last call they receive from recruitment. If you really want to work for Virgin wouldn't you just try to get your foot in the door and your name on the list?

I can’t understand the logic either. I suspect that some may have knocked it back for the old ‘I’m too good/qualified to be an SO’ mentality.

[cLeArIcE]

I can’t understand the logic either. I suspect that some may have knocked it back for the old ‘I’m too good/qualified to be an SO’ mentality.

​​​​​Probably on the hold for QF as well.
If they knew they were in the mix for QF, ​​​then I can understand trying their luck for a better position at VA.
It's brave but, while waiting for virgin to call them back (if ever) they get a call from QF it was an ace move.

[havick]

​​​​​Probably on the hold for QF as well.
If they knew they were in the mix for QF, ​​​then I can understand trying their luck for a better position at VA.
It's brave but, while waiting for virgin to call them back (if ever) they get a call from QF it was an ace move.

still doesn’t make sense. Wouldn’t you just take the seniority number and then quit and goto QF when you get the call? Seniority is everything down the road. I know at least 3 guys at VA doing exactly this.

[Snakecharma]

Not that it has stopped everyone but there is a type rating bond of 45k. Pull the pin before the 36 months I think it is and you pay the 45k pro rated for your time in the business.

[Far Canel]

Which aircraft is that out of interest?

[Interceptheading]

777 and 737 has a 45k bond 36mths
ATR is 20k 3 Years
A320 is 30k 3 Years
F100 is 25k 3 years

[Berealgetreal]

Cobham?

I still can’t get my head around it. Lol.

[wishiwasupthere]

Maybe said individual prefers to actually do takeoffs and landings?

[Berealgetreal]

It’s not that long to a window seat. Plenty of movement.

30 years to practice them what’s the rush, enjoy cheap American clothes!

[JPJP]

It’s not that long to a window seat. Plenty of movement.

30 years to practice them what’s the rush, enjoy cheap American clothes!

Indeed. There are worse places to spend a night or two - Manhattan beach or Malibu. What puzzles me is the extreme test of mental agility involved in choosing a bond duration -

Interceptheading (https://www.pprune.org/members/468123-interceptheading)
777 and 737 has a 45k bond 36mths
ATR is 20k 3 Years
A320 is 30k 3 Years
F100 is 25k 3 years

It seems obvious that the 36 month bond on the 73 or 777 is the smart move. Far shorter than the 3 years on the the other aircraft. Perhaps analyzing the difference between months and years is the final test of cognition required by the Virgin HR ladies, that determine which of the group of seemingly all female applicants will make the grade :E

[Snakecharma]

JPJP, your obvious frivolity aside, the reason for the different terminology is the ATR, F100 and A320 (VARA) bonds are Skywest originated and the 737 and 777 were virgin blue originated - the VB bond originally being 30 months.

[JPJP]

JPJP, your obvious frivolity aside, the reason for the different terminology is the ATR, F100 and A320 (VARA) bonds are Skywest originated and the 737 and 777 were virgin blue originated - the VB bond originally being 30 months.

Interesting. That makes sense. And you’re right, when I saw those bond terms - I just couldn’t help myself :)

[Berealgetreal]

So the F100 would be pick of the bunch if you had your eye on another carrier. Times have changed.

[Transition Layer]

30 years to practice them what’s the rush, enjoy cheap American clothes!

I would have thought there’s more fun things to do on LA overnights, often involving a lack of clothing :}

[Toruk Macto]

Whats with HR these days ? They are like Paris Hilton , they are there because they say they are important ? Qantas , TAA and Ansett all started and run by airline people . The chief pilot put you under the spot light and your mates vouched for you . Now a 25 YO uni grad does not like your tone and your done ! Can’t see how it’s an improvement ?

[Flyboy1987]

Whats with HR these days ? They are like Paris Hilton , they are there because they say they are important ? Qantas , TAA and Ansett all started and run by airline people . The chief pilot put you under the spot light and your mates vouched for you . Now a 25 YO uni grad does not like your tone and your done ! Can’t see how it’s an improvement ?

Will come back to bite them in the end. But yes, they’ve really made a mess of things.

[Anthonybrown]

Any word from the hold file?

[davidclarke]

Looks like Vara are recruiting DECs for Perth. There must have been pilots in the group who would have been interested in this position rather than recruiting externally?

https://www.iacglobal.com/job-listing/a320-captains-type-rated/

[airdualbleedfault]

David Clarke, it's a 12 month contract, so jobless after 12 months or F100 Effo at best :ooh:

[ACMS]

Yeah those 25 yo HR idiots that wouldn’t know the front end of a 737 from a Tractor telling us who makes a good Pilot and who doesn’t.....what bs.

[Paul Alfred]

Any word from the hold file?

Had an email Friday for 73 in NZ but unfortunately can't make the move. This is the second time I have received this offer in 6 months since being in the hold. I told them during the interview back in November last year that NZ wasn't an option for me and the 777 is my only avenue. Not sure whats happening when you choose your preferences. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

[Snakecharma]

Paul Alfred, they make the offer irrespective of your stated “preference” as people often change their minds and get the ****s when they offer the job to someone else “I would have taken that” besides preferences are just that preferences. They also ask you for your preferred base and that is not guaranteed either.

While moving to NZ might be a challenge getting on to the seniority list is, in my opinion, the highest priority.

The list dictates how your career progresses once you are in the airline, so while where you start might be important now, where you finish is probably more important. With so few widebody aeroplanes the bigger aircraft are more likely to be crewed by those further up the seniority list. The later you join the list the lower you are.

[belongamick]

The list dictates how your career progresses once you are in the airline

Unless you are on the ATR that is

[bobyyy1]

One would reasonably expect the 'cap' to be removed from the new EBA currently in negotiation. A substantial increase in salary and general conditions is also expected to appease the current ATR crew. If these aren't addressed then expect an exodus of the senior crew off the ATR (which would have a very negative effect on the sustainability of the ATR fleet as a whole)

[Snakecharma]

Belongamick, even with a cap the seniority list dictates where you end up.

The cap might hold people on the atr for a while but it doesn’t slide their seniority, so to the point I was making, someone might spend a few years on the atr, but they will still have the number to get something else like a widebody later in their career.

A later number ultimately means more in front of you for those positions later on.

[Oakape]

Had an email Friday for 73 in NZ but unfortunately can't make the move. This is the second time I have received this offer in 6 months since being in the hold. I told them during the interview back in November last year that NZ wasn't an option for me and the 777 is my only avenue. Not sure whats happening when you choose your preferences. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

Paul, there are a number of crew in NZ who seem to make commuting from Oz work. Don’t know your circumstances, but perhaps it is worth looking into.

[Paul Alfred]

Paul, there are a number of crew in NZ who seem to make commuting from Oz work. Don’t know your circumstances, but perhaps it is worth looking into.


Cheers Oakape. Appreciate that. I hear it is a good gig.

[Snakecharma]

Man of Steel (sorry couldn't resist) ClarkeKent - I would be very surprised if VA 737 direct entry 737 positions opened up again in the short term, there are a bunch of SO's coming off freeze who have bids in for the 73, so I would expect them to get first crack.

There seems to be a bunch of new 777 SO's out and about lately so there have been a few courses done by the seems of it.

[JPJP]

belongamick, I am curious on how you believe Virgin would keep the ATR’s flying with no restriction on pilots bidding off the type?



The same way every other decent airline deals with crewing it’s smallest lowest paying aircraft ?

[TimmyTee]

The same way every other decent airline deals with crewing it’s smallest lowest paying aircraft ?



I guess they could go back to being like Qantas link with no group seniority and leave pilots hanging around in the hope of one day getting a non-guaranteed future start date with mainline in a few years time?

[bobyyy1]

Qlink have been offering interviews and providing start dates to internals for a position with mainline. VA have ATR pilots firmly in the middle of their GDOJ however they have no time frame to bid off the type and are also the lowest paid amongst the group. The pilots are likely to sit there for around 10 years before any movement.

The simple solution is for VA to improve the pay and conditions on the ATR and apply freezes and bonds to new joiners. They can then allow the usual flow that a seniority list creates while keeping things fair. Any new VA pilots should be joining as ATR fo’s so they can continue to release people to other types.

[mates rates]

And initial commands in VA should be as an ATR Captain with a freeze period.That will cover the L/H seat requirements.

["Littlebird"]

And initial commands in VA should be as an ATR Captain with a freeze period.That will cover the L/H seat requirements.
There's an idea! And how many FO's from the 737, 777, 330 with a previous life as a turbo-prop Captain, would you think will not tell you to F...off and leave you with no airline? And how about if I was coming off the 777 or 330 as a Senior FO. Would my pay reflect over $200K to be a Captain on the ATR glider or would I half my pay?
L.B

["Littlebird"]

By the time this EBA plays out and all done with, I would expect most of the current ATR pilots would have had a start date and left for another airline. Yes I imagine a lot of experience with an ATPL out the door! Yes not a very good example of utilising your current resources and a retention policy.

Bobyyy1 is right. The only way forward really is to have new joiners start on the ATR as FO or CAPT depending on their experience, on a new salary scale and a pre determined fixed term minimum service prior to progressing to the jet fleet. This would facilitate a system that could be transparent, fair and work seamlessly.
If the rumours are true, employing someone out of GA directly to the 737 or even 777 as SO on the east coast in front of your current pilots wanting and deserving these opportunities, is called corporate suicide.
Remember Big Daddy Branson's wisdom, 'treat your employees well and they will run the business for you'. No word of a lie ☺ L.B

[havick]

By the time this EBA plays out and all done with, I would expect most of the current ATR pilots would have had a start date and left for another airline. Yes I imagine a lot of experience with an ATPL out the door! Yes not a very good example of utilising your current resources and a retention policy.

Bobyyy1 is right. The only way forward really is to have new joiners start on the ATR as FO or CAPT depending on their experience, on a new salary scale and a pre determined fixed term minimum service prior to progressing to the jet fleet. This would facilitate a system that could be transparent, fair and work seamlessly.
If the rumours are true, employing someone out of GA directly to the 737 or even 777 as SO on the east coast in front of your current pilots wanting and deserving these opportunities, is called corporate suicide.
Remember Big Daddy Branson's wisdom, 'treat your employees well and they will run the business for you'. No word of a lie ☺ L.B

Or an even simpler option would be to pay bypass/withholding pay. Problem solved until the ATR fleet disappears.

[JPJP]

I guess they could go back to being like Qantas link with no group seniority and leave pilots hanging around in the hope of one day getting a non-guaranteed future start date with mainline in a few years time?


That’s not what I was alluding to. In fact; I have no idea why you thought that was relevant to my quote.

Bobyyy1 explained the differences succinctly.

[shoddy88]

The ATR is a prison.
The seniority system is meaningless. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly not on the ATR list and is ignorant of what's happened the past 8 years.

The only solution to the ATR problem is a letter of resignation.

[sumtingwong]

Absolutely correct shoddy.

[Judd]

The only solution to the ATR problem is a letter of resignation.

Fantastic idea. And back to being a Grade 3 instructor at one of the several Chinese owned flying schools springing up around Australia

["Littlebird"]

Fantastic idea. And back to being a Grade 3 instructor at one of the several Chinese owned flying schools springing up around Australia

Judd - Why would they have to resort to instructing with all that experience? You don't work in HR do you?
From my experience I can say with confidence that the majority of these guys would get a job in Asia tomorrow flying a 320 or wide body as a First Officer. Saying that of course they would also be more than suitable for any major airline jet job in Oz.
L.B

[wheels_down]

So how does one actually get off the ATR and onto the 800? Is it a matter of slogging it out for 5-10 years as a FO then another 5-10 with a command before moving across? You probably would be at retirement age before the days comes along getting a shot at a 737 command

[Snakecharma]

All this talk about 5-10 years on the ATR is nonsense in my opinion.

There is currently some sort of cap on people moving from the ATR and while I can sort of understand it from a business perspective - though I think it is misguided and not real smart, but I can sort of understand it (note I didn't say I agree with it!)

The ATR EBA is currently being negotiated so it seems to me that it is an area ripe for negotiation.

The organisation does not benefit from having a heap of pissed off ATR pilots who bail out and go to QF or elsewhere, (despite what some of our betters might think) so it makes perfect business sense to me to work out a mutually satisfactory arrangement. Which is probably why it won't happen

[morno]

Currently an ad out for DEC’s on the ATR

[roundhouse]

Any idea of realistically how many hours they’re looking for DEC?

Will a Saab340 left seat suffice?

I’m just looking for a regional ACT lifestyle now, not interested in jets etc so please don’t bother with trying to put me off with that argument etc.

[No Idea Either]

Roundhouse

I reckon that’d do it....if you know anyone on the inside get them to make a few enquiries, if not chase them up yourself.

[anonfly]

Realistically over the next year if you are trying for the 737 then VAINZ is probably your best bet. Whilst there are spots available in Australia many of those will be filled internally, (VAINZ,VARA,ATR, and now Tiger have joined the GDOJ list) leaving a lucky few or any spots for direct entry being based in Aus. As many have mentioned above, get your seniority number, do the three years in NZ and then bid for a position in Australia.
Treat it as adventure. NZ is a great place to live and if you are east coast based, commuting may be a viable option.
Good luck out there to all.

[Konyagi]

What would the approximate time to command be in NZ? Do many Australians bid for New Zealand commands?

[On Guard]

About 5-7 years. They are starting to as protected list of old Pb nz fo’s for command priority Is about to be exhausted.

[Goat Whisperer]

Guess how many widebody jobs VA is forecasting for the 12 months Jul 2018 to Jul 2019?

[No Idea Either]

Flying positions......not many Goaty, but truckloads of SO and VAI 737 Like every one else here has mentioned, there will be no direct entry Oz based 737 anymore. Plenty of NZ based and plenty of 777 SO, so I would suggest get one of those if you can, and get on the seniority list. Holding out is just damaging your prospects. It’s unlikely, but you never know, the music might stop....or at least slow down a bit.

[Tommy Bahama]

Flying positions......not many Goaty, but truckloads of SO and VAI 737 Like every one else here has mentioned, there will be no direct entry Oz based 737 anymore. Plenty of NZ based and plenty of 777 SO, so I would suggest get one of those if you can, and get on the seniority list. Holding out is just damaging your prospects. It’s unlikely, but you never know, the music might stop....or at least slow down a bit.


Or if you want a wide body career go to Qantas.

[No Idea Either]

No arguments from me tommy. My point is just get in anywhere and get on a list. Commands in VA are out to 10 years now. Death Star probably the same. There is a small window of opportunity at QF to reduce command time down to around 15 years but it will be back to the 20+ soon, and VA and JQ will be up there eventually. Take a position.....get on a list.....get some jet time.....get a command eventually or go to China with a bit of time up your sleeve. Do not sit around scratching your arse waiting for the dream direct entry FO 73. It has happened in the past, probably won’t happen anymore. Do not turn down an offer of a position, you’re mad if you do, or not really committed. The airlines will sniff this and you may blow your chance. It is mercenary now, none of this career for life stuff (even at QF the career is taking a beating). Take a slot at JQ/VA then take a slot at QF 12 months later if it happens. Don’t be shy, be in it to win it........or go into IT.

[galdian]

Great post(s) by No Idea Either - sums things up succinctly, should be read by anyone going the airline route.

Disagree slightly on one point - the music WILL stop at some stage because it always does - for how many years did Qantas NOT recruit?? - and the airlines will use any means possible (cadets, P2F, overseas....whatever) to get bums in seats to press the buttons, standards optional.
They will get the numbers up.... then go quiet again.

Sadly HR and their like have established themselves as a cancer (untreatable at this stage) and one has little choice but to spend the extra $$ on practice of the psychobabble they require, not the way it should be but the way it is.

Qualifications and experience optional. Psychobabble essential. Such is the brave new world.

Cheers.

[Superawsome]

Does anyone know anything about the new EBA @VANZ?

[Aussie-kiwi]

Superawsome, They started negotiating last week. So will be a while before the details are known.

[XanaduX]

Does VANZ currently have people on the hold file, and if so, how long have people been waiting for a class date?

[mattyj]

I haven’t had a classy date since the 90’s

[Aussie-kiwi]

XandaduX, yes they do. And usually within a few months. Word on the street is a type rating course every month this year and first few months of next year.

[XanaduX]

XandaduX, yes they do. And usually within a few months. Word on the street is a type rating course every month this year and first few months of next year.


Thanks mate .. do you know whether the numbers quoted here for VANZ are still accurate and whether it's NZD or AUD?

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/448354-australian-airline-wages-compilation-18.html