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Aussie-kiwi
23rd Aug 2018, 01:53
Thanks mate .. do you know whether the numbers quoted here for VANZ are still accurate and whether it's NZD or AUD?


NZD: FO: $103950 year 1, $112217 Year 2, $120606 year 3

NZD: CAPT: $176776 year 1, $185772 year 2, and $194769 year 3

Hope this helps.

XanaduX
23rd Aug 2018, 02:40
NZD: FO: $103950 year 1, $112217 Year 2, $120606 year 3

NZD: CAPT: $176776 year 1, $185772 year 2, and $194769 year 3

Hope this helps.

Ouch! Thanks mate. It sure does help.

Aussie-kiwi
23rd Aug 2018, 02:53
Ouch! Thanks mate. It sure does help.

SORRY, forgot to reinforce that these are likely to get more competitive (go up) over the next few months as the new collective agreement is negotiated. Nothing is guaranteed of course until the contract is ratified. Watch this space.

snakeslugger
23rd Aug 2018, 05:58
Aus EBA...

AUD $128-151K FO
AUD $233K CPT
they better go up a hell of a lot.

Aussie-kiwi
23rd Aug 2018, 07:28
Aus EBA...

AUD $128-151K FO
AUD $233K CPT
they better go up a hell of a lot.
Yes. I know the guys are hopeful it will get close to this. (Pay equality for NZ based pilots). I suspect the company will drive a hard bargain though.

anonfly
23rd Aug 2018, 07:28
Just remember you pay less tax in nz so you need to do your numbers.
Those numbers are not as bad as the look once you take into account your actual take home pay.

aussie1234
23rd Aug 2018, 07:45
You don’t pay less tax until you make about $145k. No tax free threshold in NZ rates are similar at different thresholds. GST 15% not 10%. No super. There is KiwiSaver and you can choose to contribute 4% and the company will match that 4% plus the real kicker, good luck finding a house in Auckland under a million that your missus would live in. And before anyone else asks, no you shouldn’t commute.

snakeslugger
23rd Aug 2018, 18:50
Just remember you pay less tax in nz so you need to do your numbers.
Those numbers are not as bad as the look once you take into account your actual take home pay.


with 12.25% super next year and current exchange rate, I think it’s still a significant difference.

bangbounceboeing
23rd Aug 2018, 23:35
Why would anybody even want to join Virgin at the moment when the "other" big player in town is expanding their fleet, adding international destinations and most importantly, making a sizeable profit and sharing the booty with its employees whilst virgin achieves none of above. ��

thefeatheredone
24th Aug 2018, 00:32
Because some people still refer to themselves as “male” or “female”.... hence making them ineligible at the interview stage for the other major player

Aussie-kiwi
29th Aug 2018, 05:30
Anyone with any info on how today’s annual results will affect fleet upgrades etc?

belongamick
29th Aug 2018, 06:37
Anyone with any info on how today’s annual results will affect fleet upgrades etc?

Info, or speculation? You'll get a lot of one and almost none of the other. JB is basically a caretaker CEO right now so I would take any word on the street about fleet upgrades with a big grain of salt.

Goat Whisperer
30th Aug 2018, 01:52
JB has indicated that he one announcement left, on the same scale as the BNE-ASP and HBA-PER route plans so don't expect anything as big as a widebody order. Max10 will replace 332 on transcon.

Abc3211
30th Aug 2018, 05:00
Anyone currently on the hold file for 777 SO/ 737 NZ/ATR FO? Just wondering how long majority of people are waiting to a start date.

airdualbleedfault
31st Aug 2018, 07:37
737 on trans con, why don't they just divert the reservation calls straight to Qantas

Icarus2001
31st Aug 2018, 11:31
Because Q play the same game. BN to PH 5:40 with two toilets narrow body. Rolls eyes.

mattyj
5th Sep 2018, 06:20
I did it in the fixed base sim in Altheon or whatever it used to be called. All the power settings and speeds they sent me and I memorized were wrong..they said as much in the briefing..it was a departure and then handling and a return for the hold and the ILS at YMML. No failures except for the flight director and autopilot..buy an hours practice..it’s worth it

Flydawg
5th Sep 2018, 11:37
I did it in the fixed base sim in Altheon or whatever it used to be called. All the power settings and speeds they sent me and I memorized were wrong..they said as much in the briefing..it was a departure and then handling and a return for the hold and the ILS at YMML. No failures except for the flight director and autopilot..buy an hours practice..it’s worth it

Hi Matty
Was this for the Fokker 100?
Anyone know what to expect in the sim and interview for the F100.

Gligg
5th Sep 2018, 13:47
If its for the 73 just remember to lean forward and nod when they start talking about NZ

Flydawg
6th Sep 2018, 00:20
Anyone has any info on the F100 interview tech questions

Flydawg
16th Sep 2018, 10:13
I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but what are the times to command and moving on to the 737 from the F100 fleet, also how long before you can expect to move from Perth.??

Toruk Macto
16th Sep 2018, 11:03
Are HR serious or they still wasting people’s time ?

Aussie-kiwi
16th Sep 2018, 11:09
Are HR serious or they still wasting people’s time ?

What do you mean by that?

Nine_Inch__Wings
17th Sep 2018, 23:04
G’day all

havent been able to find out much information about this - no one seems to know! Any help would be much appreciated.

Say I joined VA on the 777, then wanted to go to Tiger to speed up my time to narrowbody and shorten my time longhaul - does anyone know of the process involved - whether it is as easy as filling out a form, or whether there is a full application process to transfer?

Thanks in advance

Biatch
17th Sep 2018, 23:12
As far as I’m aware... seeing as the seniority lists are now joined, simple as bidding across ...

Goat Whisperer
18th Sep 2018, 00:28
Yup, once you've done your time, which AFAIK is 3 years in position, you can bid to VA or TT or VARA or VAINZ window seat. If you've kept your nose reasonably clean and (here's the kicker) they're not desperately short on your existing fleet you're in.

Nine_Inch__Wings
18th Sep 2018, 01:38
As far as I’m aware... seeing as the seniority lists are now joined, simple as bidding across ...

But I thought VARA has been on the seniority list for some time, yet their pilots appear they must apply for a mainline position?

Also yes... just like at any airline - and that is truly a big kicker, as I don’t know many that have had the correct crew compliments for some time!

grrowler
18th Sep 2018, 09:20
I don’t know many that have had the correct crew compliments for some time! yeah I can’t remember the last time I had a compliment:}

pyrophoenix
23rd Sep 2018, 06:33
Anyone currently on the hold file for 777 SO/ 737 NZ/ATR FO? Just wondering how long majority of people are waiting to a start date.

Hey mate, yeah got the tick in the box for hold file mid august and a mate and I who both have done it are still waiting to hear more.

pyrophoenix
23rd Sep 2018, 06:36
I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but what are the times to command and moving on to the 737 from the F100 fleet, also how long before you can expect to move from Perth.??

During the interview they told me 11 years to command on the 737. Can't help with the rest though.

Flyboy1987
4th Oct 2018, 04:55
Anyone else apply 12 months ago and haven’t heard a peep yet?

Snakecharma
4th Oct 2018, 06:55
Pyro, I reckon 11 years is optimistic - my guess is closer to 15 for the 737, prob 25 for the wide bodies (not that you mentioned the wide bodies in your post)

MonsterC01
4th Oct 2018, 08:11
Given historical retirement / leaving rates at Virgin without taking into account any fleet growth or reduction you could probably work on the following time line for B737 Commands.

NZ: 8-10 yrs
PER: 10-12 yrs
SYD: 12-15 yrs
MEL: 15-18 yrs
BNE: 20+ yrs

It’s also worth remembering that we’ll get a new CEO next year so there could be any number of significant changes coming which could effect these time frames.

- we have an 11 aircraft wide body fleet which has never made a dollar for the company. Will they go? Or if the keep the wide body fleet and go to a common type will they increase the fleet size to try and get some profitable economies of scale?
- Does Alliance continue to fill our 100 seat jet requirements going forward on a more permanent basis, much like Colbam do for Qantas? Or do we bring it back in house like the E-jet?
- what happens with the VARA F100’s when they can no longer be supported with spare parts in a few years time? Do they get replaced? Does that flying get farmed out to Alliance as well? Does VARA get wound up?
- What happens to the ATR fleet going forward? Do they try and grow it into the regional market again? Or do they wind it up?
- what happens to Tiger going forward? Does it grow or stay the same?

Lots of questions that won’t be answered now till we have a new chief in the chair. But the answer to these question will have a profound effect on the career progression of anyone who has joined Virgin in the last few years, or is looking to join Virgin in the future.

piston broke again
4th Oct 2018, 09:12
Also worth considering (but not an issue for external applicants right now) is that conditions on the new EBA that were to be locked in for November rosters are rumoured to be in limbo - ie not achievable for November. Interesting when this gets announced to all crew...

Snakecharma
4th Oct 2018, 09:22
Monster, slight correction, the 777 was and is making a profit, agree though that the 330 isn’t.

airdualbleedfault
4th Oct 2018, 13:30
Monster, I'm sure with the A320 expansion at VARA they're just preparing to wind it up :}

Oakape
5th Oct 2018, 04:00
Some have been on that list for over three years waiting

One has been on for 6 years I'm told.

snakeslugger
5th Oct 2018, 19:48
It’s only a matter of time until Christchurch base closes, I’m told.



mate, that gem has been going around for the last 10 years...

Berealgetreal
6th Oct 2018, 18:07
MonsterC01 figures look correct for people in the company as opposed to new joiners. So a command on the B737 in SYD as an example is within reach of pilots that joined in 2008 in rough terms. Some 2010 joiners gained a PER B737 command and these are the most junior in the 737 Aus based operation.

I think the quickest jet command is probably VARA F100 as whilst as whilst that fleet hasn’t growing massively, the use of the fleet has increased significantly. I’m not sure if the B737 NZ operation would offer a quicker route.

There are a lot of variables, change of CEO and property/share market probably the biggest. I personally see the 330/777 continuing as the slots are valuable as is the oncarriage. VARA will only grow bigger in my opinion and the Ejets won’t be coming back.

One point that hasn’t been made is that the vast majority of pilots are GenX. Most Captains are around 45. In around 20 years time there will be an avalanche of commands. Hard to tell where they will fall on the current list. Good luck.

betterluckythangood
8th Oct 2018, 11:13
G'day All,

Apologies - I'm a little late to this thread! Does anyone have any rumours on when/if Virgin will hire direct onto the 737 again?

I have a strong desire for a Perth basing so i'm encouraged by the previous comments re time to command in Perth.

Appreciate any light anyone might be able to shed.

Thanks!

viewsonic
9th Oct 2018, 00:09
Does anyone have any rumours on when/if Virgin will hire direct onto the 737 again?

I have a strong desire for a Perth basing so i'm encouraged by the previous comments re time to command in Perth.

Appreciate any light anyone might be able to shed.

Thanks!

wouldn’t hold my breath for a direct 737 Perth(any Au base actually), this wave of hiring started about 2-3 years ago so lots of unfrozen SO’s and NZ crews about to be released to window seats/returning home. Even if they do become available the hold pool will have people in it that are holding out for these positions. If you want Perth, take the F100 and at the end of your freeze decide if you want to stay on for a command or jump ship to the 737/A320, etherway you’ll be senior to the hold outs who may or may not get a start..

AAA1
10th Oct 2018, 14:12
Anyone have any idea when recruitment might commence? I'm in Perth but would be happy to travel and move for the chance.

Aussie-kiwi
18th Oct 2018, 04:38
Anyone on a Nov/Dec/Jan type rating for NZ based 738?

GoDirect
31st Oct 2018, 09:54
Is anybody able to give an indication of the approximate hours and experience of those getting hired for the NZ based operation at the moment on the 738? Is hiring steady at the moment for people applying with lower time (say 1200 - 1500 ish TT with 500 plus heavy turboprop)? Enquiring on behalf of a friend. Thanks.

pilotchute
31st Oct 2018, 18:47
I always think of a Lockheed Electra or an AN 12 when someone says "heavy turboprop". Am I wrong?

bouncebabybounce
1st Nov 2018, 05:08
I always think of a Lockheed Electra or an AN 12 when someone says "heavy turboprop". Am I wrong?

i was thinking more A400M 😅

Flyboy1987
1st Nov 2018, 06:27
I always think of a Lockheed Electra or an AN 12 when someone says "heavy turboprop". Am I wrong?

You ever tried picking up a caravan?

pilotchute
1st Nov 2018, 09:27
No but I have flown one overweight. That was rather "heavy"! 😁

anonfly
10th Dec 2018, 07:06
Numbers have stabilised apparently so anybody’s guess how much longer you will be holding for.

roundhouse
16th Dec 2018, 05:58
Could anyone be kind enough to PM me or post how long the hold file was for them in recent times?

The Bullwinkle
13th Jan 2019, 21:18
When will Virgin improve its staff travel, aligning it with QF's in allowing Business Class etc?
Your hilarious!!! JB tries to copy just about everything else QANTAS does, but he won’t be doing that!

t_cas
13th Jan 2019, 21:29
Your hilarious!!! JB tries to copy just about everything else QANTAS does, but he won’t be doing that!
“JB” is leaving the building.......,,

The Bullwinkle
13th Jan 2019, 22:48
“JB” is leaving the building.......,,
Can’t happen soon enough!

Bumble_Pilot
15th Jan 2019, 10:54
Anyone know if VA allow SO's to fly elsewhere on their time off?

FedupSo
16th Jan 2019, 13:39
Yes, but have an hour limitation of 100hrs per year.

FedupSo
16th Jan 2019, 13:42
The day Virgin gets business staff travel is the day they implement ‘date of joining’ priority. Bring it on I say.

Mupster
29th Jan 2019, 01:10
Anyone who attended the assessment days NOV/DEC '18 heard anything RE hold file length / start dates etc?

betterluckythangood
29th Jan 2019, 10:16
G'day All,

Can anyone shed any light on whether Virgin are taking applications for Australia based (Perth) 737 FO? The career opportunities page suggest they are targeting Oz based 737 FO
but when I start working through the online application form it asks you to check the boxes for positions you are interested in and Australia based 737 FO is not on the list.

I'm wondering if anyone knows if this is intentional or a possible error with the form?

Also - they ask for an Australian Command Multi-Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating but don't specifically state that you need an IPC in the last 12 months. Does anyone know if the IPC is optional if you have a Command Multi-Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating but more than 12 months since your last check?

Appreciate any light/rumours you may be able to shed.

Cheers!

VHFRT
30th Jan 2019, 14:21
Won’t be direct 737 recruitment into the Aus based anytime soon (shouldn’t say that... who knows with this place. Wouldn’t count on it though).

Take the 777 and you’ll be able to move over after 2 1/2 years

betterluckythangood
2nd Feb 2019, 08:21
Thanks VHFRT - appreciate the insight.

I'm keen to get the family back to Perth ASAP, if I took F100 with a Perth base do you reckon it'd be a similar timeline to the 737?

From what I can tell it looks like Network might be the best job around in PH at the moment, I meet the criteria for their DEC F100 they've had up for a while...

What would you do?

virginexcess
2nd Feb 2019, 10:17
Virgin is a seniority driven airline, get on the list as soon as you can, wherever you can. Once you’re on the list, you can go anywhere your seniorty allows. Perth is the least popular base (737 wise) so you will gettheget there quicker than anywhere else. Trying to game the system is ultimately only wasting time and pushing you further
down the list.

"Littlebird"
2nd Feb 2019, 11:04
Virgin is a seniority driven airline, get on the list as soon as you can, wherever you can. Once you’re on the list, you can go anywhere your seniorty allows.

Really? So if someone was to join on the ATR and the seniority list, you can go anywhere your seniority allows?
How about the 10% cap?
I've said this before. I've interviewed a number of ATR chaps during the past several years. They all shared the same experience. 5-7 years service on the ATR with the seniority to move to the 737, but they can't go anywhere due to the cap. Meanwhile, people are being recruited directly off the street for both the 777 and 737. Now that is called shafted!
IF YOU WANT TO FLY A JET, THEN JOIN STRAIGHT TO A JET, OTHERWISE PREPARE FOR A SHAFTING WHERE SENIORITY MEANS FU..ALL.
L.B

TimmyTee
2nd Feb 2019, 11:18
I guess you can always quit, go to Qlink and get a group seniority slot there. Will be at mainline much quicker than a Virgin ATR driver....

"Littlebird"
2nd Feb 2019, 11:29
I guess you can always quit, go to Qlink and get a group seniority slot there. Will be at mainline much quicker than a Virgin ATR driver....
Yes possibly a better option, but not by too much.

olster
2nd Feb 2019, 11:59
How did two Brits end up running training and standards @ Virgin Australia?!

skysook
3rd Feb 2019, 02:21
Littlebird

The cap they signed up for and agreed to and knew the implications of. The cap that the company has fully applied within their rights. So what is the issue here?

Random22
3rd Feb 2019, 07:58
The issue they face on the ATR is the ability to attract and retain. The cap is a massive hinderance to the operation as a whole.

From day 1 the ATR Operation has been a shamozzle. It’s was run by Skywest then VARA now VA. They shut down the biggest pilot base being Brisbane. They expected everyone to pack up their bags and move to Canberra or Sydney. People voted with their feet and just left. So the company offered a commuting agreement for a return or service.

The last Eba included ‘integration’ with the VA GDOJ list. The cap came as a condition of integration. The cap essentially meant they had to release a minimum of 10% of crew a year to VA. VA’s definition of ‘release’ and ‘10%’ has been interesting to say the least.

Bear in mind the last eba was voted in by the entire Skywest group (f50,f100,a320 and atr). So even if they ATR guys weren’t happy with the terms they could have been over ruled by the greater population of pilots on other fleets.

In the years gone by, VA has hired at quite a dramatic pace. You have people off the street getting 737 domestic positions. This has ‘screwed over’ atr pilots who may be hundreds of positions higher on the GDOJ than the pilot off the street.

The new joiner gets to join on more money, on a secure fleet and a secure base. Meanwhile the ATR pilots get to continue their 8+ year reign of uncertainty and below par pay and conditions. They don’t know if their fleet will be around next year, if they will be forced to move bases or when they may get the ‘chance’ to fly a 737. Even though they’ve been working for VA for 8+ years!

Its time for the cap to go and for the exisiting atr pilots to be provided pay/conditions and positions based on their GDOJ. If conditions don’t improve, expect another exodus off the fleet and potentially the end of the ATR operation as a whole at VA.

To the new joiners, be very weary accepting an ATR position. Understand the eba before you accept it!

"Littlebird"
3rd Feb 2019, 08:38
Littlebird

The cap they signed up for and agreed to and knew the implications of. The cap that the company has fully applied within their rights. So what is the issue here?

Skysook,
No doubt the employee would have signed a contract knowing the terms and conditions of the cap.
A contract is between both parties, therefore each has their own responsibilities. The employer is responsible for correctly applying the cap and then executing it by actually releasing 10% of the pilots. Please note, that awarding a position and actually releasing a person is two very different things.
I believe the EBA has expired, therefore the cap should be deemed expired.
Nevertheless, at the end of the day if you look after your employees they will run the company for you. I believe this is a Branson quote.
L.B

MonsterC01
3rd Feb 2019, 17:10
Skysook,
No doubt the employee would have signed a contract knowing the terms and conditions of the cap.
A contract is between both parties, therefore each has their own responsibilities. The employer is responsible for correctly applying the cap and then executing it by actually releasing 10% of the pilots. Please note, that awarding a position and actually releasing a person is two very different things.
I believe the EBA has expired, therefore the cap should be deemed expired.
Nevertheless, at the end of the day if you look after your employees they will run the company for you. I believe this is a Branson quote.
L.B

the conditions of an EBA remain in force even after it expires until replaced by another one.

"Littlebird"
4th Feb 2019, 01:16
the conditions of an EBA remain in force even after it expires until replaced by another one.
Yes and how convenient that is for the company. Why would you have any sense of urgency to renew.
Pilot's can't operate without renewing their licence and medical so why is it a company can get to an EBA when they're good and ready.
L.B

TimmyTee
4th Feb 2019, 03:11
Didn’t the majority of the VARA ATR drivers agree to those terms too? And a question for you: on the day you joined VARA, did you know about, and accept the 10% cap, or did you sign on the dotted line before any guarantee of joint seniority?

Random22
4th Feb 2019, 05:43
I joined Skywest knowing that I could progress onto the f100 or the a320. Now with the way the ATR operation is, I would have to interview and pass a sim to be ‘approved’ to fly a jet with the employer I initially signed with.

Essentially the ATR pilot group is an unwanted/reject pilot group, neither wanted by Skywest or VA. If you do join on the ATR, join knowing that there will be no career progression and that since you ‘only fly a turboprop’ you may never be deemed ‘suitable’ to fly a jet.

Colonel_Klink
4th Feb 2019, 09:10
The people that joined the Virgin Group 8 years ago as ATR captains actually would have had no expectation of a position on the VAA 737 operation - as when they joined the ATR it was wholly operated by Skywest who at that stage were not owned by Virgin (think Cobham 717 - wear the uniform and fly the aeroplane with the tail painted in ‘mainline’ colours, but are employed by a contract company).

The only reason the ATR got group seniority once Skywest was bought by VA is because of the push by one of the unions (the one that does all the work). The only way the company was going to contemplate a group seniority list including VARA was if they had the 10% cap. Given the small amount of numbers of people on the ATR (and to a lesser extent the number of people in WA on the F100 / 320) this is not necessarily an unreasonable thing. How do you think the ATR operation would have survived if they had pulled 60 pilots from it over the course of 18 months? Quite simply the operation wouldn’t have survived. Some people here really ought to sit back and actually look at the reality of things from time to time rather than just shooting from the hip.

My understanding is that now the current ATR negotiations are going to look at phasing our the cap completely. EBAs are a constant work in progress - your first one saw the ATR guys have the opportunity to fly VAA 737s, albeit with the cap. The second one will see the cap removed.

I think it’s also important to note that Integration will take close to 10 years before it completely settles down and works as one would hope in an ideal world. We’ve had the 777 operation and 737 operation join lists, providing SOs on the V Australia operation the clear path to VA737 (and recently some initial 777 FOs taking VA737 commands). We have then had the VANZ pilots join the list, again giving some Aussies who were in NZ the opportunity to have a clear path to be able to move back to Australia (and again just recently now give some Australians - one who was an initial V Australia SO - take a command at VANZ on the 737), and also over the last two years plenty of ATR pilots move to the VA737 (and I believe some ATR FOs to the F100 and A320) as well as the opportunity for VARA F100 pilots to stay in Perth and move across to 737 mainline. And I also believe in the last bid import we saw a Tiger FO move across to the 777 as an SO.

All of these opportunities and movments cost the Company quite a lot of money in order to provide Pilots a ‘career’ in the Virgin Group. That the Company enforced the cap - to the inconvenience of some ATR pilots - is unfortunate for those people directly affected, but overall in the grand scheme of things, for the greater good - we now have full Integration with VAA (Narrowbody, Widebody, ATR), VANZ, VARA (F100 and A320) and now Tiger.

Virgin is now an airline where you can join as a cadet into the right seat of an ATR (or as direct entry into VANZ, or TT, or as an SO), move to the back seat of a 777 (or take an FO position in NZ or TT), then right seat VAA, then move to Left Seat ATR (or at TT, or in NZ) or perhaps take right seat of a widebody.

Some of those points are well worth remembering before just arbitrarily slagging the union that represents the greatest number of group employees (The one that drove integration). Or the company for that matter!

And some of those points above seem to be conveniently forgotten by some people.

wheels_down
7th Feb 2019, 02:24
So can you go VA 737 FO and upgrade to TT Command 320/737?

Berealgetreal
7th Feb 2019, 03:48
Yes, you can go anywhere your Group date of joining position will take you. ATR has a cap as explained above and I think the 777 has a requirement for a narrow body command before taking a 777 command. Both widebody command and FO positions are very senior (mainly captains).

Colonel_Klink
7th Feb 2019, 04:33
You can most certainly go from VA 73 FO to TT Command. In fact it looks as though that may happen in the near future given that their is only about 15 TT FOs before the rest of the VA pilots will have access to command (like what happened with VANZ).

My understanding is also that you do not require NB command to be eligible for WB Command. This was changed in Experience Requirements about 18 months ago. But Bereal is spot on - WB commands are going very very senior (first two pages of GDOJ list) and WB FO positions are going very senior too (a 1000 staff number 73 Capt recently took 330 FO). Also rumour is that the next WB FO positions will all go to 73 captains as a lot are looking at a better lifestyle.

The ATR CAP still looks to be phased out in the next EBA.

wheels_down
7th Feb 2019, 09:39
What about a senior Tiger captain jumping over to the A330 FO?

Tiger was largely crewed from Cathay Dragon when it started in Singapore then Oz, a lot had the 330 rating.

Mr Google Head
7th Feb 2019, 10:21
WWhat about a senior Tiger captain jumping over to the A330 FO?

Tiger was largely crewed from Cathay Dragon when it started in Singapore then Oz, a lot had the 330 rating.

I believe this is theoretically allowed for; however the most senior TT guys on the VA date of joining list are about 500 positions below the most junior A330 FO’s so might be a bit of a wait; regardless of mentioned experience.

wheels_down
7th Feb 2019, 12:33
So for the pilots who joined the Tiger Payroll in 04/05 in Singapore, are they not ‘on the list’ in close proximity to those Virgin pilots who joined at the same time?

PoppaJo
7th Feb 2019, 12:47
So for the pilots who joined the Tiger Payroll in 04/05 in Singapore, are they not ‘on the list’ in close proximity to those Virgin pilots who joined at the same time?
There are none still there. They went to Strategic/Jetstar/China. Many Aussies at Tiger Singapore were smart enough not to come and are still up there earning a lot more cash flying not flying old 737s.

There are a few still there from 07 but not many.

skysook
7th Feb 2019, 21:42
I joined Skywest knowing that I could progress onto the f100 or the a320. Now with the way the ATR operation is, I would have to interview and pass a sim to be ‘approved’ to fly a jet with the employer I initially signed with.

Essentially the ATR pilot group is an unwanted/reject pilot group, neither wanted by Skywest or VA. If you do join on the ATR, join knowing that there will be no career progression and that since you ‘only fly a turboprop’ you may never be deemed ‘suitable’ to fly a jet.


Random22

According to this post you claim to have joined Skywest. However, in your previous post you were claiming entitlements because you had worked for the “VA group for 8+ years”. So which airline did you actually interview for and accept a position with? If it’s Skywest just remember that you’re part of the group by default (Virgin buys Skywest and now you’re on the list). Most VA737 drivers around you actually targeted VA mainline and got in. They’re on the list because they intended to be and not by default. So decide which one it is. Did you join Skywest or Virgin?

Chadzat
8th Feb 2019, 00:00
Re-read your post skyhook. What they said was technically correct - they didn’t say they are working for VA for 8 years - they worked in the VA GROUP for 8 years. There is a difference.

Good to see there is still animosity out there towards ATR pilots.....🙄

Berealgetreal
8th Feb 2019, 00:15
Forget widebody Fo slots, those are taken by people that have been around for 15 or more years. It was very junior at the start (recall an email encouraging senior guys to apply) and was juniorish before the last eba vote. The increases to salary and conditions combined with the lower tax bracket make it attractive to captains. Besides, MEL-HKG with three rounds of business catering and cappuccinos is better than 4 sectors between Ballina Syd and Coffs. The longer it goes the more senior it gets. The guys I know that fly it love it complaining only they don’t feel current as they don’t fly much.

Random22
8th Feb 2019, 02:35
Random22

According to this post you claim to have joined Skywest. However, in your previous post you were claiming entitlements because you had worked for the “VA group for 8+ years”. So which airline did you actually interview for and accept a position with? If it’s Skywest just remember that you’re part of the group by default (Virgin buys Skywest and now you’re on the list). Most VA737 drivers around you actually targeted VA mainline and got in. They’re on the list because they intended to be and not by default. So decide which one it is. Did you join Skywest or Virgin?

Skysook - regardless of which group I joined, the point remains that by being on the ATR I have had my career progression curbed by the company. As an ATR pilot I cannot go to ‘mainline (737)’ due to the 10% cap and I can’t go to the f100 without completing and interview and a sim. Why should I have to complete a sim and interview to move onto a fleet which was on the original (Skywest) seniority list I joined?

Again - avoid the ATR at all costs. You’re much better off starting on the 777 as an SO. At least you’re guaranteed progression after 30 months, not 10 years.

skysook
8th Feb 2019, 04:57
Re-read your post skyhook. What they said was technically correct - they didn’t say they are working for VA for 8 years - they worked in the VA GROUP for 8 years. There is a difference.

Good to see there is still animosity out there towards ATR pilots.....🙄

Re-read and my point still stands. You’ve missed it so I’ll explain.
It doesn’t matter if it’s VA or VA group. Skywest was never part the group when most ATR Pilots joined. Nor were they to be on the group seniority list (at the time of joining). The acquisition and joint seniority all happened by default. In contrast, many pilots on the 737 joined VA or the VA group intentionally (they didn’t end up on the list out of sheer luck). Now they have to listen to ATR pilots above them complain all the time because they didn’t get the icing on the cake that was made for them.
As for animosity... As long as they keep complaining it will be there. They have been blessed with their position on the list. “Do your time and be thankful with what you have”.

Mr Google Head
8th Feb 2019, 04:57
So for the pilots who joined the Tiger Payroll in 04/05 in Singapore, are they not ‘on the list’ in close proximity to those Virgin pilots who joined at the same time?

No they are not, Tiger had nothing to do with Virgin back then.

Mr Google Head
8th Feb 2019, 08:41
No they are not, Tiger had nothing to do with Virgin back then.

on a side note the most senior TT pilots have a start date of end of 2006....

Capt. On Heat
8th Feb 2019, 21:25
The only reason the ATR got group seniority once Skywest was bought by VA is because of the push by one of the unions (the one that does all the work).

Some of those points are well worth remembering before just arbitrarily slagging the union that represents the greatest number of group employees (The one that drove integration).

Haha good one Shultz. Sorry, but I simply couldn't let your untruths go unchallenged. The union that does all the work......they probably should after not being a part of anything for decades (thank goodness-hence how decent the CEA was) and then waltzing in to mess things up last round. The whole integration wedge was AFAPs fault and the company played them like a fiddle, despite being warned beforehand that would happen.

If there was no MBF, I'm not sure it would be ethics or competence attracting members.

Colonel_Klink
8th Feb 2019, 22:18
I’m not sure what untruths you’re talking about - VARA (Skywest) can thank the AFAP for Integration. Had that not occurred - what do you think would have happened to the F50 pilots or all of the ATR pilots when they got rid of half their fleet. All of those people still have jobs because of the way Integration allowed for the transfer of pilot in an orderly and fair process throughout the group.

Integration is hardly a wedge - that’s a very simplistic naïve view of how things have worked out.

The fact that the CAP was introduced to get Integration past the Company in the first place was not an unreasonable thing to do. Again - the EBA currently being negotiated has the CAP phased out over the life of the agreement.

There are situations where ATR pilots have been held back because of the CAP and had junior pilots awarded positions ahead of them, however seniority dictates that you will still hold a jet command before these people. I feel for people who had the CAP enforced, that would be a very frustrating thing o go through, but Integration is for the greater good of the entire VA group of pilots, as clearly evidenced by the amount of ATR pilots who are SOs or 73FOs and the amount of F100 pilots who have transferred to 73 PH positions.

And to the poster above complaining about having to do sim assessments and an interview to go to the jet - whilst not ideal, you are still afforded the opportunity to be awarded the position due to Integration. Effectively before 73 FOs are awarded a command they have to do an interview now, and their previous 24 months of sim scores are scrutinised. Seniority doesn’t just give you a go because your number is up - it’s not unreasonable to suggest that you have to reach a minimum standard before the company invests over $40k worth of training in you.

Icarus2001
9th Feb 2019, 03:49
minimum standard before the company invests over $40k worth of training in you. So that is what you believe it costs to turn a competent line FO on a B737 into a captain?

Colonel_Klink
9th Feb 2019, 06:00
So that is what you believe it costs to turn a competent line FO on a B737 into a captain?

Given that the current command upgrade program is 8x4 hour sims (using up the time of a check captain and a support FO) as well as then all of the line training sectors (which I know are revenue flights - but given FOs are now paid as captains from day 1 of training, that’s two captains salaries up the front instead of normally one) - I would imagine to upgrade a competent FO to Captain is actually more expensive than $40k

Snakecharma
9th Feb 2019, 07:17
To put 1 existing capt into the 777 costs about 900k.

some will scoff at that figure, but think about all the consequential training, the cost of the sims, line training, salaries during ground schools etc and it doesn’t take too much imagination to suspect that the above figure is close to the mark.

Capt. On Heat
9th Feb 2019, 17:36
I’m not sure what untruths you’re talking about - VARA (Skywest) can thank the AFAP for Integration. Had that not occurred - what do you think would have happened to the F50 pilots or all of the ATR pilots when they got rid of half their fleet. All of those people still have jobs because of the way Integration allowed for the transfer of pilot in an orderly and fair process throughout the group.

Integration is hardly a wedge - that’s a very simplistic naïve view of how things have worked out.

My apologies for the misunderstanding, I was referring to the integration carrot being used by Virgin (and why wouldn't they) as leverage against every other clause in the EBA (I wasn't meaning necessarily wedges between pilot groups). The AFAP was obsessed with it being included from minute one, at the expense of everything else. As with everything in life, there are many ways to skin a cat and I believe (as I think history has shown) there was a better way to have done it. Due to the AFAP naivety this was scuppered from the beginning.
In any case, VARA can thank SALPA for integration. It's initial form was improved only by virtue of the SALPA efforts and then the majority membership to have it voted in. When the caddy suggests a 9 iron out of the rough, but Tiger steps up and instead smacks a pitching wedge onto the green - the caddy doesn't get the credit.

The F50 pilots had jobs because of their place on the VARA list, the intent of the company, other clauses in the EBA and negotiations with SALPA - not because of integration. To try to imply they would have been made redundant if it wasn't for the AFAP and integration is extremely misleading.

Colonel_Klink
9th Feb 2019, 20:32
The reason the AFAP was obsessed with it is because they were able to see the Forrest through the trees. Unlike Qantas, Virgin Group Pilots now have Integration across the entire group. The Company is unlikely to be able to play the Groups off against each other. VARA’s 320 Pilots are paid a comparable amount to VA 73 PH pilots. This is a good thing - you won’t have the situation like at QF where Network 320 pilots earn significantly less than QF 73 pilots.

How else was VARA Integration supposed to go than without having a cap (Genuine question)? It may be all well and good for the WA pilots who were never likely to transfer en masse to mainline, but for ATR pilots there was the real possibility that they would have lost over 75% of captains in less than an 18 month period. That’s unsustainable and would have shutdown that operation.

Whilst you may be right about the F50 pilots and their relative position on the VARA list (I concede that point as I am not completely familiar with all of the pilot’s positions at that time), I do know a number transferred to the ATR, 777 and possibly VANZ due to Integration that AFAP drove. I’m not trying to be misleading, and I note that you failed to mention what would have had happened to half the ATR pilots when their fleet was reduced by half. Also interesting to point out is that the BNE ATR captains who had their base closed weren’t forced to CBR o SYD but were given firm commuting rights, again thanks to the AFAP.

roundhouse
9th Feb 2019, 21:51
So back to recruitment, I’m hearing expect a wait until August until any start dates?

Colonel_Klink
10th Feb 2019, 03:45
So back to recruitment, I’m hearing expect a wait until August until any start dates?


Fair Point!

The Resource Update released in Jan had:
- More than 10 window seats on WB
- 16 SO positions
​​​​​​- More than 35 positions on Aus NB
- More than 20 positions on NZ NB
- More than 20 positions on ATR

The update did not include TT positions or VARA positions, and does not include the backfilling of positions (ie SO upgrades to 73 FO). I think it’s safe to say if you’re on the hold file you will get a call, especially as training ramps up. As an FYI they are desperate for guys to go to NZ and struggling to fill courses.

Good luck to those waiting.

roundhouse
10th Feb 2019, 05:37
Thanks for the update mate!! Was that forecast for the whole year?

Colonel_Klink
10th Feb 2019, 09:15
Sure is - as I said though, doesn’t include TT or VARA West Coast. From what I can gather TT has steadily been recruiting FOs for last 12 months, as has VARA for F100 drivers.

These figures dont include consequentials either, and by that I mean:

- 777 Captain position taken by 737 Captain.
- That 737 captain is replaced by an A330 FO
- That A330 FO is replaced by another less junior 737 Captain (or one that wants a lifestyle change)
- That 737 Captain is replaced by a 737 FO
- That 737 FO is replaced by a 777 SO
- That 777 SO is replaced by a guy off the street.

So you can see a single position can result in significant movement across the Group!

pyrophoenix
10th Feb 2019, 10:15
So any idea how large the hold file is now? In particular for VANZ?

virginexcess
10th Feb 2019, 10:28
Also interesting to point out is that the BNE ATR captains who had their base closed weren’t forced to CBR o SYD but were given firm commuting rights, again thanks to the AFAP.

Attributing that to the AFAP is drawing a pretty long bow. Confirmed commuting rights within the group came as a result of the original 777 EBA that morphed into the WB EBA. Prior to the original LH EBA, nobody in Virgin had any commuting rights at all. The LH EBA introduced them in the form of "own way travel" the WB enshrined them. The original "own way travel" was driven wholly by VIPA. Sure the AFAP supported it, but not for one minute was it their idea or their argument. All commuting rights within the Virgin Group stem from that win by the 777 pilots. To be fair to the Feds, they had equal input to the commuting rights won in the WB EBA, but again, that was a 100% VIPA proposal when the EBA was still 777 only and all pilots were Sydney based. To say otherwise is reinventing history.

JoeTripodi
10th Feb 2019, 10:30
there are currently cadets (last years intake) going directly onto the 777

Chadzat
10th Feb 2019, 11:03
I think there is quite a bit of history re-invention going on with AFAPs #1 fanboy here on this thread.

Stretch06
17th Feb 2019, 10:51
Anyone know if VA allow SO's to fly elsewhere on their time off?
Yes, but have an hour limitation of 100hrs per year.

Bumble, Yes
Fedup, can do more that 100, just so long as you don't jeopardise any rostered Virgin duty.

Thewnz
8th Mar 2019, 17:07
has anyone recently started with VANZ and have some insight into length of training time away from NZ? also by the looks of the CEA are you paid a full FO wage from the very start of training?

Aussie-kiwi
11th Mar 2019, 07:40
has anyone recently started with VANZ and have some insight into length of training time away from NZ? also by the looks of the CEA are you paid a full FO wage from the very start of training?

General gist is first 3 weeks in Auckland, then 5 weeks in AU for the TR, then three sets of 4 days away for a total of 7 VA sims in AU, two days in Auckland in the middle of those sims somewhere, for a line training brief, then line training.

If if you have a start, get those Boeing CBT is done before your TR, and try to get the flows as memorised as possible. (-:

As per the CEA, pay is from date of induction (your first day)

Thewnz
11th Mar 2019, 08:13
Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated. Is the line training essentially based out of Auckland?

Aussie-kiwi
18th Mar 2019, 10:14
Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated. Is the line training essentially based out of Auckland?

Yes. You get rostered out of the base you are offered and accept (although they will change some positioning flights if you live elsewhere)

Thewnz
24th Mar 2019, 20:49
Does anybody have any ideas how the change in CEO may affect hiring NZ based FO's? Have heard various things regarding Tiger taking over trans tasman but also that virgin have injected a lot of resources to try and compete with Air NZ etc

belongamick
25th Mar 2019, 11:52
Does anybody have any ideas how the change in CEO may affect hiring NZ based FO's? Have heard various things regarding Tiger taking over trans tasman but also that virgin have injected a lot of resources to try and compete with Air NZ etc

The new guy running the joint literally took over the shop today. How could anyone know the answer to your questions with any certainty?

Thewnz
25th Mar 2019, 20:26
Not meaning to be naive but people in the company may already have heard certain rumours etc especially if the news is already talking about tiger. This is a rumour website after all

snakeslugger
25th Mar 2019, 21:03
Not meaning to be naive but people in the company may already have heard certain rumours etc especially if the news is already talking about tiger. This is a rumour website after all


Yes it is, so probably best you don’t make any decisions for your future applications here then.

Thewnz
25th Mar 2019, 21:27
Cheers for the tip

kjvmw
12th Apr 2019, 09:59
Hi,

Just a few questions about VANZ.

How likely would a CHCH base be for a new joiner?
How many nights away per typical roster?
Typical salary with allowances - or a link to the current agreement?

Thanks

Berealgetreal
12th Apr 2019, 19:05
Met a guy the other day that went straight into VANZ 737 off the street. He was brand new if that helps. If you don’t get CHC take AKL. Before you know it you’ll get the transfer. Best of luck.

Shanwick Shanwick
12th Apr 2019, 21:44
http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/VA-SH-Agreement-2013-with-VIPA-ToC.pdf
http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/VANZ-CEA-FINAL.pdf
http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/VARA-Pilots-Enterprise-Agreement-2015.pdf

Far Canel
13th Apr 2019, 01:51
Berealgetreal,
when you say off the street and brand new. Do you mean low hours basic licence?

kjvmw
13th Apr 2019, 03:11
Thanks for that

Berealgetreal
13th Apr 2019, 05:15
No, I think he had some multicrew time.

The VAA agreement is old btw. 2018 is the latest one.

airbourne
18th Apr 2019, 21:16
What is the time frame from 737 FO to 737 Command?

Berealgetreal
18th Apr 2019, 21:29
Would be based on retirements of current captains most of which are in early mid 40s. I’d say 20 to 25 years. If you want a quick jet command vara would be your best bet. Australia isn’t the place for career progression.

Snakecharma
19th Apr 2019, 03:48
I would have thought 12-15 years?

there are a bunch of guys who are in their mid to late 50’s who will give it away in their early to mid 60’s, that will drive movement.

depends a lot on what the new boss ends up doing I guess.

DUXNUTZ
19th Apr 2019, 21:59
What’s the outlook on wide bodies? More on the horizon?

airbourne
19th Apr 2019, 22:14
Wow ok, I wasn't thinking it would be that long. I am not there yet. Just starting out in Europe. Was thinking 5-8 years in Ryanair and when Mrs Airbourne wants to move back to Oz it would be an option Ryanair can give you your command within 5 years. Who in their right mind would wait 12-15 years for narrow body command?

big buddah
20th Apr 2019, 00:51
Wow ok, I wasn't thinking it would be that long. I am not there yet. Just starting out in Europe. Was thinking 5-8 years in Ryanair and when Mrs Airbourne wants to move back to Oz it would be an option Ryanair can give you your command within 5 years. Who in their right mind would wait 12-15 years for narrow body command?

You might find command times are associated with job stability and job satisfaction. Quick commands are either from a airlines growth or a sign that Captains are leaving. One might find it preferable to waiting 10-12 years for a command in a good operation, with a good contract than taking a quick command only to find out it wasn’t what they expected.
Before the current growth cycle 10 years was about the current jet upgrade at major airlines.

maggot
20th Apr 2019, 03:49
Australia tax
mostly worth it

Mr Google Head
20th Apr 2019, 03:55
Who in their right mind would wait 12-15 years for narrow body command?

When you join a company you can’t know how long it’s going to be; you may see how long the current upgrade candidates have taken but like investing past performance is not an indicator of future performance.

Personally I would decide where I want to be in 20 years time and jump on that ladder.

When you want to come back to Aus how will your command hours at Ryan help you jump the queue?

Freightdog87
20th Apr 2019, 11:57
With Virgin Currently recruiting, does anyone know the number of groundschools forecast, and for what type of aircraft ? I would imagine the hold file is getting pretty big.

SilverFearn
20th Apr 2019, 20:23
I have a Skype interview in about 10 days for an ATR Captain position. Has anyone been through the process recently? Any feedback on the content would be much appreciated.

Berealgetreal
20th Apr 2019, 20:33
Mainly a steady requirement for ATR/777 occasionally F100 and VANZ737.

New CEO in the hot seat and Federal Election coming up so anything can happen.

Flyboy1987
21st Apr 2019, 00:15
Wow ok, I wasn't thinking it would be that long. I am not there yet. Just starting out in Europe. Was thinking 5-8 years in Ryanair and when Mrs Airbourne wants to move back to Oz it would be an option Ryanair can give you your command within 5 years. Who in their right mind would wait 12-15 years for narrow body command?

Who in their right mind would aspire for a career at ryanair?

dr dre
21st Apr 2019, 01:57
Who in their right mind would aspire for a career at ryanair?

Home every night.

Fixed roster pattern so you can plan things on days off months in advance.

Quite a quick route to command with decent pay once you get there.

Over 80 bases all over the continent so a lot of flexibility and choice on where you can choose to live.

Fairly wide and varied route network with quite a lot of opportunities to do short term basings in plenty of different parts of the continent.

Not every aspiring pilot wants to sit in the right hand seat for 20 years or spend multiple days per month commuting to a base or getting to spend the productive years of their lives experiencing jet lag or spend lots of time away from home just to fly a widebody Jet.

Whilst Ryanair has a lot of turnover the nature of its operation does appeal to a lot of pilots.

morno
21st Apr 2019, 08:33
Who in their right mind would aspire for a career at ryanair?

Who in their right mind would aspire for a career at Virgin Australia?

mattyj
21st Apr 2019, 09:16
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/220x183/73886b04_dc4a_496b_9b1d_e999addaca00_2512e0dcd48bf3ce398b8ff b32fb791942ff070d.gif

Gate_15L
21st Apr 2019, 10:50
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/220x183/73886b04_dc4a_496b_9b1d_e999addaca00_2512e0dcd48bf3ce398b8ff b32fb791942ff070d.gif


still bitter from getting rejected from VANZ are we MattyJ?

Flyboy1987
21st Apr 2019, 12:51
Who in their right mind would aspire for a career at Virgin Australia?

😂😂😂

Something to fill the time until qf open applications I guess!!!

Far Canel
22nd Apr 2019, 04:07
😂😂😂

Something to fill the time until qf open applications I guess!!!
might be a while before mainline open their doors again

Hold_Filer
22nd Apr 2019, 22:07
😂😂😂
Something to fill the time until qf open applications I guess!!!

Yes, waiting awhile is the thinking. Plenty of possibles coming from the company internals. We’ve got Jetstar in Asia, local Jetstar, link and networks then all the jet time Australia’s coming home. Anyways, you get an interview, you get the psychological exam, you get the medical, you get the sim, you wait for that you wait on the holding file. All waiting for something maybe 2 or 3 year plus or never. Qf never has desperation for appropriate candidates.

xxRED BARONxx
6th May 2019, 03:44
Hey Guys,

Wondering if anyone has done the interview recently and would be able to recommend a website with the most relevant/appropriate aptitude test preparation??

Thanks in advance!

B38MFO
1st Jun 2019, 23:37
Hey Guys,

Curious if anyone has any information on timeline from initial web application to reply to next step etc.

Cheers

Professional Amateur
2nd Jun 2019, 13:21
Interesting to see the minimums went up/changed slightly.
Now need to have MCC course completed....
No longer specific about Virgin Cadet progam eligability......
Slightly higher mins......
Specific mention of Virgin Jet time......
And removal of all copilot (excluding Virgin jet time) being acceptable.

Narrows the field a bit......

beaver_boy
4th Jun 2019, 00:47
Probably buried in the thread, however.....I have all info regarding interview. Just need to know likely questions for VIDEO interview. Any info would be very much appreciated!

Jimnhorace
5th Jun 2019, 00:57
Whats wrong with a career at VA?
Reasonably new equipment (mostly), stable rosters, generous employment conditions, get to stay in Aus or NZ, great crew to fly with........
I get QF would be most peoples first choice but VA is not a bad place to work and it certainly seems to be a much happier place than Jetstar, Tiger, the middle east or China.
Good Luck to those successful with their Qantas application. I'm sure its a great place to work but not everyone is going to get that job. Back in the day, those successful at AN may not have been elsewhere and vice versa.
One knock back does not mean you will be unsuccessful as an airline pilot somewhere else.

Goat Whisperer
5th Jun 2019, 06:40
Jimnhorace,

I would keep in mind that, for pilots seeking a career in VA, joining Tiger is joining Virgin. It just may be your first (and likely third) position in the group, and just as valid as a 777 SO, ATR FO or VAINZ FO, but Tiger is probably the best paid of those entry jobs, and certainly sets you up for VA 737 FO as well as any of the others.

Berealgetreal
5th Jun 2019, 23:12
What fleet are you on Jim?

master_beta
6th Jun 2019, 03:36
Are GA drivers really forking out $6k+ for the MCC?!

Jimnhorace
8th Jun 2019, 06:19
What fleet are you on Jim?
Currently flying the bus but when i joined Virgin, there was only one type and no-one expected we would be any more than that.
I had interviewed and been successful elsewhere but my choice was to stay in Australia.
I am very happy with my choice and still would be if we were still a single fleet airline.
The point i wanted to make by posting was for anyone contemplating career moves, work out what is important to you.
If that is the quickest left seat in a big jet, then you will be heading overseas but if you value a life in Australia, then concentrate on getting a job here. it will take a lot longer to get to that seat but in the meantime you are enjoying the beaches and fresh air. Plenty of time off and a quality of life not found many other places in the world.
I have seen so many people give up their airline job in Australia to head overseas and then realise just what they sacrificed. Difficult for them to then come back to Australia and start their career over again but lots do and lots more wish they could. Even if it wasn't to work for Qantas.

Jimnhorace
8th Jun 2019, 06:24
Absolutely agree Goat Whisperer. The long game is the one that counts. Work out who you want to work for and get on the list. If they don't want you, get on the other list. You will still have a lot of fun, make plenty of money and enjoy flying some good gear.

vhtae
9th Jun 2019, 03:16
Off topic slightly. Is the VA 777 Simulator they purchased in 2008 still in Sydney or has it moved to the Boeing/VA Training Centre in Brisbane?

Dragun
9th Jun 2019, 04:52
It's in Brisbane.

vhtae
9th Jun 2019, 06:07
It's in Brisbane.
Thanks for that

kjvmw
27th Jun 2019, 02:35
Anyone been invited to an VANZ interview recently?

Thanks

KRUSTY 34
27th Jun 2019, 06:22
Word has it that VARA is no longer looking at Direct Entry Captains for their ATR Operation.

After extending the the deadline for the current application due to internal lack of interest, it seems that the increase in ATR Captains salary may have done the trick? :rolleyes:​​​​​​​

rep
27th Jun 2019, 09:28
After extending the the deadline for the current application due to internal lack of interest, it seems that the increase in ATR Captains salary may have done the trick? :rolleyes:​​​​​​​
Why are you rolling your eyes? Is this not a good thing?

27/09
27th Jun 2019, 21:28
Why are you rolling your eyes? Is this not a good thing?
I'd hazard a guess he was thinking the salary may have been a problem for a while, but it took the smart ones in the room so long to figure that out. Yes, it is a good thing. Better late than never I suppose.

WillieTheWimp
27th Jun 2019, 23:25
Out of curiosity what is the old vs new salary?

"Littlebird"
28th Jun 2019, 02:00
Out of curiosity what is the old vs new salary?
What new salary?? There is no new EBA and it seems no urgency from the company to finalise anything. So as it stands, average CAPTs pay and very average FO pay. Guys on the ATR are still looking at leaving and will. Sometimes, it's a case of too little too late.
L.B

KRUSTY 34
28th Jun 2019, 02:12
My understanding is that commencing July 1, the ATR Captains pay is now comparable to 737 F/O salary for same years of service, although I am happy to stand corrected. The main reason for my :rolleyes: was that previous attempts to lure Jet F/O’s across included a promise of a substantial pay cut! It’s only taken several years of angst for them to finally work out why no one was interested!

With such a small, fleet, the extra cost in wages is so insignificant in the scheme of the operation, you would have thought it to be a no brainer!

"Littlebird"
29th Jun 2019, 10:30
Hi Krusty 34.

Yes, you would have thought it's a no brainer, although that is big picture stuff, and hard to focus on when KPI is the word on the street...Apparently the new CEO is on the ball, and hopefully, he can see the forest for the trees.

I've been told the current situation is as follows:
The EBA expired on 1 July 2018. So as it stands at the moment, there is no new salary as of Monday 1 July 2019. The company and unions are still playing the game, and the remaining 60 or so ATR pilots, are frustrated and not impressed. They are lucky they have only lost 1 CAPT and 1 FO in the past few months. All that is required now is another sweep from QF and/or JQ for crew, and there will be another 6 aircraft permanently stored in Nelson.

If you join today the pay is ATR 72 Captain Year 1 approx. $115,000, and ATR 72 FO Year 1 $75,000.
Currently 2-3 overnights away per week, and regular massive waits between flights(up to 3.5 hrs) and yes 3-4 sectors per day. Progression to the jets I hear? If you are at the top of the tree then maybe yes, if you are in the middle and below or have just joined, then you might get awarded a job, although being released is another issue. Once you might get to the jet, then enjoy the RHS for at least another 10 years plus.

This has come from a very reliable source that I have known for over 25 years, and as you said, I'm happy to stand corrected as well. All the best!

L.B

KRUSTY 34
30th Jun 2019, 02:13
Thanks LB.

Sort of makes one curious as to how they were able to lure enough Jet F/O’s across.

It takes all kinds I suppose?

"Littlebird"
30th Jun 2019, 02:33
Krusty,
No Jet FO's from VA mainline (737, 777 or 330) have ever gone to the ATR to date. All recent guys with jet experience have come from overseas.
L.B

KRUSTY 34
30th Jun 2019, 04:06
Well, isn’t that interesting.

A “Source” has informed me that all applications for DEC have been “Binned” in favour of internal applicants?

Another seperate source has confirmed that despite over 17,000 hours and more than decade of Regional turboprop Command experience, he has been informed that he is no longer competitive!

They do need Captains, right?

Mr Google Head
30th Jun 2019, 05:09
Krusty,
No Jet FO's from VA mainline (737, 777 or 330) have ever gone to the ATR to date. All recent guys with jet experience have come from overseas.
L.B

This is not correct

"Littlebird"
30th Jun 2019, 08:22
This is not correct

I'm happy to be corrected Mr Google Head, please elaborate?

"Littlebird"
30th Jun 2019, 08:31
I'm not sure if they need Captains Krusty. Perhaps the company is hoping that after an EBA gets all signed up, jet FO's will want to go to the ATR.
Perhaps Mr Google Head or someone else in the know can answer your question.

Mr Google Head
30th Jun 2019, 09:32
I'm happy to be corrected Mr Google Head, please elaborate?

There has been Jet FO movement from mainline to ATR...the number probably small but not zero.

KRUSTY 34
30th Jun 2019, 09:54
I'm not sure if they need Captains Krusty. Perhaps the company is hoping that after an EBA gets all signed up, jet FO's will want to go to the ATR.
Perhaps Mr Google Head or someone else in the know can answer your question.

They need 8 Captains LB. 4 in Sydney and 4 in Canberra.

If HR or Recruitment, or whoever is in charge of these things are speculating that people will come across rather than processing the last round of qualified applicants, then I suppose they’re way smarter than I am!

aussiepilot
1st Jul 2019, 07:07
Well, isn’t that interesting.

A “Source” has informed me that all applications for DEC have been “Binned” in favour of internal applicants?


Can this be true since applications only closed yesterday?

KRUSTY 34
1st Jul 2019, 09:34
Can this be true since applications only closed yesterday?

Apparently so.

Remembering a Source is still just a Source?

Flyer4040
17th Jul 2019, 07:15
Anyone been invited to an VANZ interview recently?

Thanks

Hi mate

could you please let me know if you hear anything as well.
i have interview coming up as well
thanks

under the radar 55
31st Jul 2019, 18:26
Hi Everyone,

I was chatting to a mate who said that one of his mates told him that Virgin is not going to run any course for the rest of 2019 at this stage. He said that they need about 10 737 drivers split between Aus & NZ but after that nothing.

I interviewed in Brisbane early this year and received an email saying that my application was successful pending reference checks. If anyone with inside info has more knowledge on this please help, I would like to know if I am going to be on the hold file into 2020.

Cheers

anonfly
1st Aug 2019, 03:08
All I know is that tiger required 10 FO 737, so provided those spots don’t get filled internally there could be a spot there.

TimmyTee
1st Aug 2019, 09:06
All I know is that tiger required 10 FO 737, so provided those spots don’t get filled internally there could be a spot there.

Surely the trippler SOs and ATR drivers will snap up these slots?

aussiepilot
1st Aug 2019, 11:14
Any news on the ATR DEC front?

turbantime
1st Aug 2019, 21:13
Any news on the ATR DEC front?

Latest info is that DEC’s won’t be required as the pay for captains and f/o’s is about to be improved to aid retention.

KRUSTY 34
1st Aug 2019, 21:51
Latest info is that DEC’s won’t be required as the pay for captains and f/o’s is about to be improved to aid retention.

That’s the information I have as well.

Makes you wonder what their motives were in calling for applications recently? Only to tell a whole bunch of people that they are no longer competitive!

belongamick
3rd Aug 2019, 04:23
My understanding is that no proposed EBA has yet been seen by the wider ATR pilot group, let alone voted on. Any talk about big pay rises helping with retention seems pretty ambitious and speculative at this point.

Flyer4040
26th Aug 2019, 00:30
Hi
anyone has done the 2 days interview with virgin in Brisbane,any information on that will be much appreciated.
thanks

kjvmw
2nd Sep 2019, 23:29
How long did people wait between submitting the flipbase video and being invited for the interview?

Thanks

under the radar 55
21st Oct 2019, 05:01
Can anyone please provide any info about external pilot recruitment numbers that the company need once the fleet & network review is completed? Also is a date set as to when the company will go public with its fleet & network review? What I have been told is that VANZ is short on numbers and they can't fully man a roster. All they are waiting for is the nod from management to run more endorsement courses. Can anyone shed any light on if the Aus operation is short on drivers? I'm still waiting for that phone call from HR about a start date and I bet lots of others are in the same boat as me.

Colonel_Klink
21st Oct 2019, 20:14
Can anyone please provide any info about external pilot recruitment numbers that the company need once the fleet & network review is completed? Also is a date set as to when the company will go public with its fleet & network review? What I have been told is that VANZ is short on numbers and they can't fully man a roster. All they are waiting for is the nod from management to run more endorsement courses. Can anyone shed any light on if the Aus operation is short on drivers? I'm still waiting for that phone call from HR about a start date and I bet lots of others are in the same boat as me.

The latest resource plan showed a need for the following pilots over the next 12 months:

12 x 777 SO positions
20 x Aus 737 FO positions
6 x NZ 737 FO positions
4 x ATR Captains positions
6 x ATR FO positions
Handful of WB Captain and FO positions

Those numbers typically don’t take into account further attrition during the year (say if QF started awarding start dates again).

And those numbers also typically don’t take into account backfilled positions (for example if the Company awards a 330 command to a 737 captain, they will then as an example replace that 737 captain with a 737 FO, who may be replaced by a 777 SO who may need to be replaced by someone on the hold file).

That list doesn’t cover TT or VARA West Coast positions.

And of course that list could change pending outcome of network review (which as a guess I would think would be pulling capacity out of NZ)!

Fingers crossed you don’t wait too long on the hold file.

under the radar 55
21st Oct 2019, 21:10
Colonel_Klink;

Thank you Colonel_Klink for theses numbers (this is very positive) hopefully HR will start calling people from the hold file soon. Can you tell me please are these positions open to internal bidding before they are open to external applications?

Mr Google Head
21st Oct 2019, 21:45
Handful of WB Captain and FO positions


14 wide body window seats to be more precise. The consequential movements of those alone could potentially almost double the narrow body positions.

belongamick
21st Oct 2019, 23:40
Can you tell me please are these positions open to internal bidding before they are open to external applications?

Yes, of course they are open to internal applicants first, it's a seniority based airline. The positions you would be looking at are 777 SO, VANZ 737 FO, ATR FO, F100 FO, or Tiger A320/737 FO. VAA 737 FO spots are 100% going to be filled internally as there are a ton of 777 SO's and VANZ 737 FO's that are coming off type freeze. Take whatever comes up and get on the list, worry about your next move later. The ATR 10% cap looks like it is going to be gradually removed over the next few years if the new EBA gets up, and I'm reasonably sure (happy to be corrected though) that Tiger has a 10% cap on transfers to VAA/VAI/VANZ/VARA positions in theirs. 10% cap = roughly 10 years before you get to go to another fleet, unless it is withdrawn earlier.

under the radar 55
21st Oct 2019, 23:56
Thank you, everyone, for the info. This is very good news for people currently employed in the group and for people waiting to get that phone call about a start date.

Colonel_Klink
23rd Oct 2019, 06:18
Colonel_Klink;

Thank you Colonel_Klink for theses numbers (this is very positive) hopefully HR will start calling people from the hold file soon. Can you tell me please are these positions open to internal bidding before they are open to external applications?

All positions are open for Group employees to bid on to first, subject to type freezes and the caps in place on certain operations.

Very recently about 6 x SOs transferred to TT 737. So entry positions into the Company are most likely ATR FO, 777 SO and NZ 737 FO. As a previous poster stated - get in and get your position on the list ASAP and then worry about next step once you’re in the Company. I know of people who knocked back 77 SO positions back in the day thinking they were too good for the role, and then they subsequently joined the company 2 years later....except they now have all of VARA (West Coast and ATR) above them on the list - that’s about another 200 spots less senior.

Whilst VA has their issues - they really ought to be commended for allowing all pilots to be able to access all positions within the Group (as the knock on affect of subsequential positions and the training requirements this puts on the Company are huge) . A pilot joining now could have quite the varied career at VA...

Rated De
23rd Oct 2019, 08:58
Whilst VA has their issues - they really ought to be commended for allowing all pilots to be able to access all positions within the Group (as the knock on affect of subsequential positions and the training requirements this puts on the Company are huge) . A pilot joining now could have quite the varied career at VA...

Meanwhile, over at the competitor whole floors of "practitioners" spend their dark days on denial of a career path, all in search of labor unit cost reductions.
HR practiced at the competitor is a dark art.

under the radar 55
24th Oct 2019, 05:00
Wise advice guys on taking what is offered and getting your name on that seniority list. At my current employer seniority is everything, its time to command, getting a base you want, bidding good trips, the difference between spending Christmas with your family at home or being in some hotel skype calling them, over an entire career it can be the difference between hundreds of thousands of dollars in wages. Having the same seniority number across the entire group at Virgin is a good deal.

plotplot
12th Nov 2019, 04:18
Would be keen to hear if there are GA guys and girls going out and spending 6k on mcc course or if this is just a culling mechanism as they are receiving enough applications from folk already having multi crew time.

pyrophoenix
12th Nov 2019, 07:26
Would be keen to hear if there are GA guys and girls going out and spending 6k on mcc course or if this is just a culling mechanism as they are receiving enough applications from folk already having multi crew time.

Hi plotplot, I​​​​​ came from GA, I was also grandfathered into the exemption for being on turboprops before the part 61 deadline and I waited for 6 months after the interview thinking Virgin would either accept that, tell me they wanted it or just supply the MCC. Heard nothing in the 6 months so I bit the bullet. Since joining I've read their manuals and although they reserve the right to make their own decisions etc... And despite the MCC not being a minimum mandatory item on the recruitment pages, it completely is. The HR guys are looking for certain criteria and are ticking boxes before it gets to anyone who will take the time to see whether or not a grandfather clause applies to you. It's easier to just pay for the course or you won't get acknowledged as being qualified.

KRUSTY 34
12th Nov 2019, 11:59
Hi plotplot, I​​​​​ came from GA, I was also grandfathered into the exemption for being on turboprops before the part 61 deadline and I waited for 6 months after the interview thinking Virgin would either accept that, tell me they wanted it or just supply the MCC. Heard nothing in the 6 months so I bit the bullet. Since joining I've read their manuals and although they reserve the right to make their own decisions etc... And despite the MCC not being a minimum mandatory item on the recruitment pages, it completely is. The HR guys are looking for certain criteria and are ticking boxes before it gets to anyone who will take the time to see whether or not a grandfather clause applies to you. It's easier to just pay for the course or you won't get acknowledged as being qualified.

So let’s see if I have this right.

HR have determined that you are not competitive unless you have multi crew time. However one can buy a qualification for around $6K.

Words fail me!

kjvmw
12th Nov 2019, 13:11
I cringe every time this gets brought up.

What do you think about the rest of the population are doing when they go to university? They don't study for free. They BUY a qualification. And guess what, when they graduate, in order to stay competitive and get further in their career, they go back and spend a hell of a lot more then $6000 on ANOTHER qualification.

I really don't understand everyone's issue with this. It's the same in every industry, yet we are the only ones who seem to complain about it.

plotplot
12th Nov 2019, 20:51
No issue here.

Was a simple question that prompted a simple answer - thank you Pyrophoenix. I've been on the fence about getting it done for a while as it seems there are a few operators where you will be more competitive if you have it done already.

Flyboy1987
12th Nov 2019, 21:12
I cringe every time this gets brought up.

What do you think about the rest of the population are doing when they go to university? They don't study for free. They BUY a qualification. And guess what, when they graduate, in order to stay competitive and get further in their career, they go back and spend a hell of a lot more then $6000 on ANOTHER qualification.

I really don't understand everyone's issue with this. It's the same in every industry, yet we are the only ones who seem to complain about it.

i think the main issue is that it’s 6 weeks of a GA wage to essentially watch a couple episodes of air crash investigations, learn nothing, and get your photo taken in a fixed base 737 toy.
it’s a joke and we all know it.

KRUSTY 34
12th Nov 2019, 21:26
I cringe every time this gets brought up.

What do you think about the rest of the population are doing when they go to university? They don't study for free. They BUY a qualification. And guess what, when they graduate, in order to stay competitive and get further in their career, they go back and spend a hell of a lot more then $6000 on ANOTHER qualification.

I really don't understand everyone's issue with this. It's the same in every industry, yet we are the only ones who seem to complain about it.

There is obviously more than one school of thought on this.

Let me spell out mine.

I entered the airlines without any multi crew experience, real, virtual, or otherwise. My employer was happy (and competent enough) to properly integrate me into the multi crew environment as part of my training. I have always been an average student, but on the whole I encountered no issues. To date I have some 15,000 hours or Multi crew airline experience of which 10,000 hours are as pilot in command.

IMHO the requirement for a multi crew qualification in order to apply is no more than a HR driven, self serving exercise that enables yet another way of relieving hopeful candidates of their money.

They reckon they can’t get suitable candidates. Is it any wonder when more than suitable pilots are passed over because people who haven’t even walked a metre in their shoes are calling the shots.

The name is Porter
12th Nov 2019, 21:34
Meanwhile, operators who need MCC pilots elsewhere are running ATP courses & type ratings at their cost, including paying the pilot wages and accommodation costs. This country makes me laugh.

Rated De
12th Nov 2019, 22:04
For a generation there was excess supply.
Coincident with this was the rise of HR drivel.

HR captured control of the process, in their never ending mission creep. Excess supply meant that they could grow fat cutting terms and conditions.

That time has finished.
Pilots costs lots to train, take a lot of time to do so and not every person has the aptitude.

It is called mean reversion.

Airline HR/Ir is on the wrong side of the trade this time.

Dawn Patrol
12th Nov 2019, 22:58
I cringe every time this gets brought up.

What do you think about the rest of the population are doing when they go to university? They don't study for free. They BUY a qualification. And guess what, when they graduate, in order to stay competitive and get further in their career, they go back and spend a hell of a lot more then $6000 on ANOTHER qualification.

I really don't understand everyone's issue with this. It's the same in every industry, yet we are the only ones who seem to complain about it.

I see a few differences.

Firstly, in the past it was not a requirement. It seems to be fairly recently strapped on. I don’t have a MCC , but my understanding, which could be wrong, is that it’s fairly easy to achieve during type rating.

Also, as far as other professions go. Not a single one of my doctor/lawyer/engineer/teacher/ATC friends have moved to the more remote parts of Australia to be paid less than 50k. Or have spent over 70k upfront (as many don’t use the fee help). Or have work conditions even remotely close to entry GA. In fact they are usually paid significantly more than their city counterparts and receive an array of government subsidies. I only use this as an example as the ones coughing up the 6k+ are usually the people out remote , and it is a very very larger percentage of their annual income.

Lastly, any that go back for further qualifications, which isn’t that many, are usually paid by the uni, or are under scholarship, or by their employer (PhD / masters/ more specific training, workshops etc). The ones that pay up are usually doing further education in another field , not improving their currently achieved skills set.

Those are extra points of complaint that I see anyway, and they certainly aren’t hard and fast rules. However, the nature of the game is to tick the required boxes, so be it. It just seems extra boxes frequently appear!

Horatio Leafblower
13th Nov 2019, 04:25
IMHO the requirement for a multi crew qualification in order to apply is no more than a HR driven, self serving exercise that enables yet another way of relieving hopeful candidates of their money.

What organisation does all the recruitment and pilot selection for Virgin Australia?

Does that organisation have a Part 142 certificate and offer MCC?

Templar
13th Nov 2019, 21:34
Does anyone have any info on when Virgin plans on starting pilot recruitment again and any ideas on fleets and bases would be much appreciated.

greenslopes
13th Nov 2019, 22:07
Given Virgin is undergoing a fleet/route review you may have to wait a little while for the dust to settle.

belongamick
14th Nov 2019, 02:18
It wouldn't surprise me if they do actually do some recruiting for ATR FO and 777 SO positions over the next six months. The ATR is apparently at quite low levels with FO positions turning up on every resource plan (and let's face it, who in the company already would be applying for an ATR FO position), and there are still internal vacancies to be filled which will eventually filter down to freeing up 777 SO spots.

In other news I heard that the new ATR EBA got voted up with a pretty strong yes vote. Phased withdrawl of the cap, more RDOs, higher base and some retention to boot.

Berealgetreal
14th Nov 2019, 04:24
All depends on QF recruitment. Regardless, there are a few leaving and others looking. I’d think they won’t replace them to keep the costs down.

under the radar 55
14th Nov 2019, 18:37
The latest resource plan showed a need for the following pilots over the next 12 months:

12 x 777 SO positions
20 x Aus 737 FO positions
6 x NZ 737 FO positions
4 x ATR Captains positions
6 x ATR FO positions
Handful of WB Captain and FO positions

Those numbers typically don’t take into account further attrition during the year (say if QF started awarding start dates again).

And those numbers also typically don’t take into account backfilled positions (for example if the Company awards a 330 command to a 737 captain, they will then as an example replace that 737 captain with a 737 FO, who may be replaced by a 777 SO who may need to be replaced by someone on the hold file).

That list doesn’t cover TT or VARA West Coast positions.

And of course that list could change pending outcome of network review (which as a guess I would think would be pulling capacity out of NZ)!

Fingers crossed you don’t wait too long on the hold file.

Does anybody have inside knowledge as to when the internal bidding for these positions is going to be completed? I am guessing they are currently being advertised internally at the moment?

Also, does anyone know if Human Resources are going to be awarding any start dates to externals before Christmas or is everything winding down until the next year? Also has this resource plan changed since the announcements of the fleet & network review at the annual general meeting on the 6th of Nov?

Lots of questions that have all been asked before, I'm just wondering if anyone with inside info can share any current updates. Cheers.

Kaan Kublay
17th Nov 2019, 00:33
Does anyone know much about the Virgin Cadetship especially when they generally advertise for the program?
Thanks.

SFFN12
11th Dec 2019, 06:05
Does anyone know if the Direct Entry SO requirement of 300 hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane can be done in ra-aus aircraft?

Horatio Leafblower
11th Dec 2019, 22:06
Does anyone know if the Direct Entry SO requirement of 300 hours in Command of a powered fixed wing aeroplane can be done in ra-aus aircraft?

I am sure it can.... but if there is a candidate with 300 hours in command of a Cessna 206 and a Baron, which candidate do you think they will take?

wishiwasupthere
11th Dec 2019, 22:49
Probably the one who jumps through the HR hoops and has the best ‘tell me about a time when’ answers.

Flyboy1987
12th Dec 2019, 13:26
I am sure it can.... but if there is a candidate with 300 hours in command of a Cessna 206 and a Baron, which candidate do you think they will take?

The female one

kjvmw
12th Dec 2019, 22:01
Anyone been invited to an assessment day lately?

burned_out
16th Dec 2019, 09:11
Anyone been invited to an assessment day lately?

Given the proximity to EoY stuff, and the chaos that is a "CEO company restructure", recruitment is mild if any. Until they sort out the 750 jobs they are axing or shifting current people away from/into then I expect it to be quiet.

Last internal bid had NO vacancies for VA / VAI / VARA / TT.

Given that Tiger is still foolishly continuing its 737 swap over, they are downsizing and giving A320's back apparently retiring another TWO in early 2020! Holy moley, talk about disabling your airline! Very disapointing.
I would expecting VA to announce sudden "retooling" of front line staff possibly after they get the office staff over with if they continue to downsize routes and fleets, and at this stage I would say TT staff are more expendable.

plotplot
6th Jan 2020, 10:28
Advertising for ATR crew at all levels up and running as of 3 days ago

aussiepilot
7th Jan 2020, 07:05
Did they hire anyone from the last time they advertised (6 months ago)?

Mr Google Head
7th Jan 2020, 07:14
Did they hire anyone from the last time they advertised (6 months ago)?

On the latest seniority list (referenced as ‘group date of joining list’ at Virgin) latest joiners October 2019. ATR / 737 VAINZ / TT320. It appears 17 pilots have joined since July 1. I’m not privy to any recruitment information that’s not available on the seniority list.

White and Fluffy
8th Jan 2020, 04:52
Hi, the add for ATR crew lists some pretty attractive salary numbers and mentions a new EBA. Is a copy of the EBA available online or is anyone able to list the key changes to the old one?

Chadzat
8th Jan 2020, 05:02
The EBA is at fair work getting approved so nothing will be online yet. It hasnt even come into effect.

Salary numbers start at the Level 1 rates advertised in that job ad. 10 RDOs per roster, everything else is pretty close to the Narrowbody ruleset with duty times closer to exemption limits.

level 3 pay (3rd year) is $143,500 Capt and $89,600 for FO. Once off type freeze there is a $5000 retention bonus for Capt every 6 months, $3250 for FOs.

bloated goat
17th Jan 2020, 05:23
What’s the latest?

"Littlebird"
19th Jan 2020, 03:25
I have been told to leave this one alone for many reasons. If you're lucky to be young enough, I would apply to VA and only accept a jet position from day dot, otherwise keep shopping. You're better off going to the US for a couple of years. No bond, no return of service obligation while flying brand new jets. The experience will open up many more opportunities in the short and long term.
1. The EBA is at Fair Work although it is my understanding that Fair Work is waiting for a reply from the company regarding some changes. This is called stalling and has not gone unnoticed by the ATR pilot group. Just adds salt to a wound.
2. As far as 'everything else being close to the narrow body ruleset', that is not exactly true. Narrow-body do not get rostered multiple 'reserve days' every week of the year. That is unless they bid to do so. What are the chances you might get called off-reserve? Great question! If you're a FO...90%, for a CAPT...maybe around 70%.
3. Opportunities for progression to the jet fleet? Yes of course, for a specific gender and ex-cadets. Everyone else can hurry up and wait. There is the ROS (return of service) if you happen to live in Brisbane, there's the 10% cap (percentage of pilots allowed to move per year), and then you have to be at a certain standard to transfer to the 'super jets'. This can be controlled by the company to suit if you know what I mean. I forgot to mention the cap will move to 15% after 1 Jul 2020...wow how amazing and kind!!
4. BOND as per the 'coming sometime soon' EBA....$45,000! (over 3 years). Not a typo ladies and gentlemen. What happens if you don't pass the type rating or training as some have not in the past?

LB;)

Ragnor
19th Jan 2020, 05:37
3. Opportunities for progression to the jet fleet? Yes of course, for a specific gender and ex-cadets. Everyone else can hurry up and wait.

LB;)

You have proof of this? I’m sure transfers are handed to those on a seniority basis, their sim standard taken into consideration also.

Anything out of order would be challenged by the person bypassed.

"Littlebird"
19th Jan 2020, 10:06
You have proof of this? I’m sure transfers are handed to those on a seniority basis, their sim standard taken into consideration also.

Anything out of order would be challenged by the person bypassed.
No, I don't have proof myself, but I have seen and heard the evidence from a very reliable source. Seniority out the door and as far as sim scores are concerned, we'll let's just say for some people this is overlooked.
I would really hope that anyone unfairly bypassed would challenge the process and their status.
LB :confused:

Chadzat
19th Jan 2020, 10:16
Sounds like you need to get off the ATR to explore greener pastures Littlebird.....Doesnt sound like you are having a fun time over there.

"Littlebird"
19th Jan 2020, 11:27
Sounds like you need to get off the ATR to explore greener pastures Littlebird.....Doesnt sound like you are having a fun time over there.
I don't think anyone would be silly enough to let me anywhere near one of those things Chadzat!
My last encounter with anything French had a bad temper, only room for one, and tried to kill me on at least 2 occasions :ok:

hoss
19th Jan 2020, 19:35
Mate, you need to try a different dating site! 😉

"Littlebird"
20th Jan 2020, 09:43
Mate, you need to try a different dating site! 😉
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/236x237/866c1b454bb4d893851a51442a2e60d2_neptune_warriors_e9c61a303c f6f934e368eeae0315ca8f28c146a2.jpg
Been there done that mate.

:p

kjvmw
20th Jan 2020, 10:28
If never ceases to amaze, the tangent that some of these threads go off on.

belongamick
21st Jan 2020, 07:18
With recruitment slowing to a halt, I think it would be a very courageous decision to turn down any position if you actually want to work for the company and instead hold out for a jet position. The wait could well be extensive, so just getting on the list is pretty important as only a few extra people above you could add years to your wait for a jet command.

Goat Whisperer
21st Jan 2020, 10:36
If you want a VA job: get on the list ASAP.

Simple.

DUXNUTZ
21st Jan 2020, 10:57
Only hiring is for attrition, there is no growth.

under the radar 55
21st Jan 2020, 12:13
If you want a VA job: get on the list ASAP.

Simple.

Agreed, rejecting a position on the ATR would be a big gamble. It's easy to say hold out for a jet position but not everyone is lucky enough to go straight to a jet position.

under the radar 55
21st Jan 2020, 22:15
I have been told by a friend of a friend that VARA will have a surplus of 6 captains and 12 first officers because they are retiring 3 Fokkers in march.

Islandhopper787
20th Oct 2022, 05:00
Afternoon all.
Small shout out to see if anyone has conducted recent interviews in Brisbane for FO 737 and care to shed some light on Yes/No results and wait times.
I believe backlog of previous employed pilots still being sorted.
Thanks in advance

Goat Whisperer
21st Oct 2022, 02:02
The flow of inactive pilots will reduce to a trickle by the middle of 2023. New hires will join at the bottom of a very long (and unknowable) list, behind any inactive pilot who comes back before 2026. At this stage the recruiting and training department is chugging along at anything from 20 to 30 per month, and intends to do so for the foreseeable future. New hires can't get start dates until VA runs out of redundant pilots to take those spots. By the time VA calls those pilots many will have a better offer.

HappyBandit
21st Oct 2022, 07:50
Goat Whimperer: Why did they call for EOI then to externals? What a waste of time for all involved?

No Idea Either
21st Oct 2022, 21:43
Happy Bandit et al

They are burning through the list at a great rate of knots. Every second person I talk to seems to be leaving for the US or QF. There is going to be a tsunami of resignations in the new year. Just hang tight, it’ll happen a lot quicker than anyone thought. Unfortunately I’m a ‘lifer’(too old to go anywhere else otherwise I would be off without a doubt) so I advise to think of it as a career step. Unless there are drastic changes you don’t want to spend the next 20-30 years here, it’s toxic at the moment. It’s hard to enjoy work (I used to) when the CEO hates you as a group and is only interested in a IPO bonus and the sooner Bain %#$@ off the better………..

Colonel_Klink
21st Oct 2022, 21:56
Happy Bandit et al

They are burning through the list at a great rate of knots. Every second person I talk to seems to be leaving for the US or QF. There is going to be a tsunami of resignations in the new year. Just hang tight, it’ll happen a lot quicker than anyone thought. Unfortunately I’m a ‘lifer’(too old to go anywhere else otherwise I would be off without a doubt) so I advise to think of it as a career step. Unless there are drastic changes you don’t want to spend the next 20-30 years here, it’s toxic at the moment. It’s hard to enjoy work (I used to) when the CEO hates you as a group and is only interested in a IPO bonus and the sooner Bain %#$@ off the better………..

Whilst every second person seems to be talking about leaving - it will be interesting to see if that actually materialises. I have my reservations.

The latest 12 month resource plan showed the need for 80FOs. That doesn’t account for attrition. So I think there’s every chance externals will be hired by middle of next year.

‘No Idea Either’ did hit the nail on the head though. Virgin is not an enjoyable place at all to work right now. Wholesale changes are needed - but anything that costs a dollar will be resisted at all costs due to this upcoming IPO which seems to be the CEOs sole attention. So the anger is only going to continue to build over the next 12-18 months until it blows up come EA time.

HappyBandit
21st Oct 2022, 22:45
Whilst every second person seems to be talking about leaving - it will be interesting to see if that actually materialises. I have my reservations.

The latest 12 month resource plan showed the need for 80FOs. That doesn’t account for attrition. So I think there’s every chance externals will be hired by middle of next year.

‘No Idea Either’ did hit the nail on the head though. Virgin is not an enjoyable place at all to work right now. Wholesale changes are needed - but anything that costs a dollar will be resisted at all costs due to this upcoming IPO which seems to be the CEOs sole attention. So the anger is only going to continue to build over the next 12-18 months until it blows up come EA time.

Thanks guys for your responses. It's so sad to hear that the morale is low currently. To be fair, I'm not sure it's better elsewhere, at least in Australia. It surprises me though, particularly after the pandemic when everyone was hurting. I'd have thought companies would be doing everything they could to keep staff and improve conditions.

Virgin used to be the place to be. How things have changed. I just hope that those looking to jump ship have something to look forward to.

I should have done my engineering degree in hindsight, except I love flying too much.

Goat Whisperer
21st Oct 2022, 22:53
Goat Whimperer: Why did they call for EOI then to externals? What a waste of time for all involved?

Because externals will be needed soon, and a hold file needs to built up. They'll start Q2 or Q3 of 2023. VA is concerned by inactive pilots biding their time and not coming back (as is the pilots' right), would like more to turn up.

Climb150
22nd Oct 2022, 15:12
Airlines in Australia need to get in line with the rest of the world. Either you are hiring or you aren't. This whole EOI is just nonsense.

DO NOT send a resume to anyone unless they are actively hiring.

Chuck_YeagerBomb
6th Nov 2022, 07:50
G’day all,

Has anyone recently attended the October Assessment days in Brisbane? Any further detail on Psych testing (lead to believe it’s Compass), Interview or Group Dynamics?

An insight would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Chuck

Jetdream
7th Nov 2022, 00:56
Hi Chuck,

Do you mind me asking roughly what your experience is? Have you flown the 737?
Just wondering who they are targeting.

Cheers

43Inches
7th Nov 2022, 04:18
Heard a disturbing conversation among some VA crew that Bain was giving the company until New Years to perform or get cut loose, apparently a lot jumping ship as a result. Not sure if there's any truth to it or just restless murmurs but it dd not sound like the crew were not hanging around themselves to find out. Hopefully it's just a crew rumor and nothing based on concrete. Conversation was linked to many cancellations happening due to lack of crew, which is worrying the crew further that the company won't meet Bains expectations.

Lapon
7th Nov 2022, 05:01
Heard a disturbing conversation among some VA crew that Bain was giving the company until New Years to perform or get cut loose, apparently a lot jumping ship as a result. Not sure if there's any truth to it or just restless murmurs but it dd not sound like the crew were not hanging around themselves to find out. Hopefully it's just a crew rumor and nothing based on concrete. Conversation was linked to many cancellations happening due to lack of crew, which is worrying the crew further that the company won't meet Bains expectations.

I think you'll find it's the management themselves that will be at risk of being cut loose.

lf a rumour to the contrary is circling the rank and file as you imply, then it's safe to say some in management know they are on the chopping block and trying the old 'make my problem seem like your problem' with regards to getting frontline staff onboard thier cause.

t_cas
7th Nov 2022, 05:03
cut loose vs IPO.

One of these net millions and millions for the architects.

One does not.

43Inches
7th Nov 2022, 05:18
For an IPO to work the company will have to prove performance, otherwise the sale will go straight to where VA shares were pre-administration. Without solid buyers the cost of going to the market will just add to the costs of winding it up. We have no data on how VA is trading right now, other than having solid loads, but we all know loads mean nothing if yield is flat lining.

Hopefully it is just middle managers threatening staff, which in itself is a terrible motivator, more are likely to leave than work harder.

turbantime
7th Nov 2022, 05:45
More than likely the people who are leaving are justifying their reasons…to themselves, loudly and within earshot of others.

We’ve all met these chest beaters before.

wishiwasupthere
7th Nov 2022, 07:10
I heard they’re opening a crew base in Anchorage.

43Inches
7th Nov 2022, 07:57
I heard they’re opening a crew base in Anchorage.

Funny thing was that was exactly what I overheard regarding pilots that were 'moving base' to Alaska, apparently it's going to be quite a large base of VA Captains and FOs.

Stilllearning1234
7th Nov 2022, 08:26
I heard VUA is leaving? Our shores..

tossbag
8th Nov 2022, 06:29
I heard they’re opening a crew base in Anchorage.

:D:ok:

Thanks for the laugh.

Vne_
5th Dec 2022, 11:08
Anyone in the know re how many redundant 73 drivers there are still out there to be called up. I assume VA will be turning to their EOI external list in the new year

On Guard
5th Dec 2022, 19:10
Anyone in the know re how many redundant 73 drivers there are still out there to be called up. I assume VA will be turning to their EOI external list in the new year

Still quite a lot. Depends how many want to take the offer up. It went near bottom of list but then right back up again last bid.