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king spotter
25th Aug 2011, 10:28
Steve,
I think it also important to point out in the media, that the majority of engineers have been with the company for a very long time and will be there for a long time to come, so with few opportunities for employment elsewhere it is in our best interest for the company to perform and succeed.

Of course the executives and managers move on after their contract period, holding a fist full of dollars regardless of the state of the company.

Who REALLY cares more?

bandit2
25th Aug 2011, 10:43
Just wondering how tonight's actions went? The one hour stoppages. Hope everyone is OK.

duderanch
25th Aug 2011, 16:25
And now back to the thread........
Any word from the Sydney guys with 1 hour stoppages ?
Did management play nice ?

Millet Fanger
25th Aug 2011, 21:48
It was a bit of a non event. Plenty of managers around taking note of who turned up at 1800 hrs. AMEs were tasked with a bit of housekeeping. Unfortunately there was a bit of sickness about. 1 hr in base at the start of night shift was never going to have a big impact.

blackbook
26th Aug 2011, 10:31
Forensic accountants Jetconnect does anyone have any information on this rumor going around.

Arnold E
26th Aug 2011, 10:48
Unfortunately there was a bit of sickness about
Sickies instead of action, Not very impressive lads.:rolleyes:

Collando
26th Aug 2011, 11:06
Here's an idea ! How about a shareholder motion for the next AGM be put forward to have an independent forensic accountant to have unfettered access to audit qantas in regards to the allegations of cross subsidisation accounting practices, reporting back to unions and management simultaneously. The way I see it, if the management have nothing to hide then the shareholder will have peace of mind that the management are not being uneconomical with the truth and can put to rest union suspicions of cost shifting. The management have made statements that this has not occurred so they should have nothing to lose. The shareholders have nothing to lose except hearing the truth which surely most would want to know. If the management have nothing to hide then this is a win win situation for them. If not, well ................................
Certainly it is a win win situation for shareholder.
What do you all think?

What does it take to get a motion up?

If it doesn't get up then it's almost an admission that there is something to hide !!!!

Managers Perspective
26th Aug 2011, 11:37
And which shareholder do you think actually gives a hoot about your petty snivelling?

The large superannuation funds? The investment bankers? The private equity firms?

They look to the day when CASK is back down where it should be.

MP

PIOT Bord
26th Aug 2011, 11:42
You're amazing Arnold, like several Qantas managers, you have a medical degree and can make a diagnosis without even seeing the person who is sick!

600ft-lb
26th Aug 2011, 12:13
And which shareholder do you think actually gives a hoot about your petty snivelling?

The large superannuation funds? The investment bankers? The private equity firms?

They look to the day when CASK is back down where it should be.

MP Maybe none of them do MP, although they might be interested to see if the appropriate amount of money is being apportioned to the right segments.

Hypothetically, it wouldn't be too hard to make Qantas's profit look bad when they have paid cash for aircraft assets they aren't allowed to fly. Like the A330-200s that are 'leased' to Jetstar. Who pays depreciation on that ? It's a huge cost to the bottom line in the reports is it not (I calculated approx $90million/year). Who pays depreciation on the A320's that Qantas owns and lease to Jetstar ?

Take those costs out of the Qantas segment and put them in another segment and it paints a very different picture.

And MP, I'm not so sure they look at the CASK for a measure of performance. I'd say its yield which is the most important.. and what do you know Qantas Domestic segment is absolutely raking in the cash even when lumbered with B734's and B767's and no further investment in widebodies on the way.

Managers Perspective
26th Aug 2011, 12:15
By all means, play whatever cards you have in your hand.

Fact is, the sun is setting.

Soon there will be a new day, and the sun will shine brightly again, and those that move forward will once again bask in the sun.

MP

SpannerTwister
26th Aug 2011, 12:18
So, what's your thinking MP ?

"Should Engineers Work to rule" ?

Hey..... ** YOU ** make the farging rules, do you want us to stick to them or not ?

Just noticed that there is no GRN on the oil cans, best I bin the lot ?

Hey MP ......

See you're back again, so for the third and final time I'll ask you, "Should engineers "work to rule" " ?

Don't worry, I won't bother you again, we all know your answer......

"No, for goodness sake, PLEASE don't work to the stupid rules we make".

So, MP............WHY, WHY, WHY does the company make rules for us to work to if they don't want us to follow them ?

ST

600ft-lb
26th Aug 2011, 12:20
The rules, policies and procedures are made and written by lawyers to protect the management from any oversight on their behalf when a mistake is made by a mere worker.

It's your fault you didn't adhere to the hundreds and hundreds of pages of manuals, policies, procedures, laws, codes of practice.

But of course it could be construed that they don't actually 'want' you to follow the procedures, but they know LAME's especially are more interested in doing the job instead of working out of they don't have to do the job. Because as we all know if we really wanted to, they'd be lucky for us to do 2 hours of productive work a day if we followed everything put in place by the powers that be. The place still works in spite of it all though, not because of it.

600ft-lb
26th Aug 2011, 12:37
Soon there will be a new day, and the sun will shine brightly again, and those that move forward will once again bask in the sun.

MP

Don't hold your breath MP, seems that managers who aren't the flavour of the month tend to get flicked quite ruthlessly. Over 1000 management personnel have disappeared over the last few years(check the annual reports if you didn't notice it) yet the place still runs.

Just hope for yourself that AJ doesn't decide he only wants 4 layers of management instead of the current 5 from bottom to top. Not much loyalty was shown last time to those who bent over backwards to help out the top.

Arnold E
26th Aug 2011, 12:52
You're amazing Arnold, like several Qantas managers, you have a medical degree and can make a diagnosis without even seeing the person who is sick! I dont have to, and I can tell you,(and for anyone who has read my previous posts) I am a looooong way off being a Qf manager.

Arnold E
26th Aug 2011, 12:59
Fact is, the sun is setting.
Unfortunately, I think this guy is right.:{

ALAEA Fed Sec
26th Aug 2011, 21:49
Here's an idea ! How about a shareholder motion for the next AGM be put forward to have an independent forensic accountant to have unfettered access to audit qantas in regards to the allegations of cross subsidisation accounting practices, reporting back to unions and management simultaneously.


There is no such thing as an "independent forensic accountant". Pressing for something like this would only let them off the hook. They would wine and dine this person, give him an ipad, a few free trips and lure them with the possibility of more work and presto......the reports find nothing.

I want answers to the 61 questions we all put together.

JDI
26th Aug 2011, 22:02
Ok then, How can we force them to answer them??
Is Senator Nick Xenophen aware of them??, just maybe he can further your hard work with some form of Senate inquiry forcing their response??

ps your tireless work most appreciated! Thanks

aveng
27th Aug 2011, 01:48
Soon there will be a new day, and the sun will shine brightly again

MP - You going to pull your head out of your bosses a#$e for a while?:cool:

TIMA9X
27th Aug 2011, 02:34
Qantas to meet union chiefs today as IR rows worsen | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-to-meet-union-chiefs-today-as-ir-rows-worsen/story-e6frg95x-1226122370176)
Qantas to meet union chiefs today as IR rows worsen

at Sat 27th Aug 12:09pm AEST
QANTAS chief executive Alan Joyce will meet senior union and ACTU officials today as industrial tensions at the airline grow. Wow, finally he wants to talk, this is encouraging for all concerned.

Mr Joyce accused unions of wanting to go "back to the bad old days of the bully unions", and said Qantas was facing demands it had not seen before.
But unions called on the management to shelve plans to cut at least 1000 jobs and start an Asian airline, and said the profit result was at odds with claims Qantas International was doing badly.
"Qantas International is being made a scapegoat here to allow Mr Joyce to expand into Asia, offshore business operations and sack 1000 employees," Mr Purvinas said.
AIPA said the profit confirmed the value of the Qantas brand, and cast doubt on the Asian venture amid growing questions about the profitability of Qantas divisions.
Well done SP, your consistent messages always spot in the press no doubt has been a major factor for this sudden turn of events. In my view, Steve has served his members well when it counted in the last two weeks, for those who didn't see this video, the momentum turned against Joyce from this day on and SPs clever remarks hit a home run.

.
0RaFYhp_A30

Big Unit
27th Aug 2011, 02:37
I am a looooong way off being a Qf manager


Don't worry mate, they are too! :E

ALAEA Fed Sec
27th Aug 2011, 02:51
Is Senator Nick Xenophen aware of them?



He is. Not the only one in Canberra wondering why Joyce and friends won't answer the questions. They might find themselves faced with them from a senate inquiry, there are at least two coming.

chockchucker
27th Aug 2011, 03:05
I never cease to be amazed at how one lone journalist seems to be able to so accurately sum up the situation within Qantas. Pity a few mainstream Journalists couldn't go to a little more effort than swallow the Qantas PR hook, line and sinker.................



Qantas spends big on self-denigration
August 27, 2011 – 12:44 pm, by Ben Sandilands

The Qantas print media campaign of self-denigration continues at the rate of hundreds of thousands of dollars today.

These are full page ads stating the obvious; that Qantas needs to change, but claiming to be building a ‘stronger Qantas’ while remaining in a state of denial over the management failures that have so badly damaged the carrier.

These failures are painfully obvious in fleet management, network and scheduling, and product and employee engagement. There is seems to be an ideological agenda at the top in Qantas that is not acknowledged in the campaign, yet has led to a restructuring that diminishes the Qantas that it is supposed to strengthen.

Qantas has clearly decided that it cannot afford the costs of past excellence in pilot standards and maintenance. And believes that by basing jets and jobs outside Australia and flying them into and out of this country, and even under some circumstances, within it, with employees paid under Asian terms and conditions, and not attracting Australian superannuation obligations on pay taxed in those countries, it can break what it sees as the unreasonable costs of doing business as an Australian company.

Yet this is a process that will not just de-Australianise the costs, but the product, reducing the very difference Qantas seeks to emphasise in its marketing as the ‘Spirit of Australia.’

One possible rationale for this enormously costly print campaign could be to head off the distinct probability that Senator Nick Xenophon might introduce and gain parliamentary support for a bill banning the rotation of Asia or New Zealand or Pacific Island pilots and flight attendants through services Qantas operates as domestic flights.

Maybe Joyce and his chairman, Leigh Clifford, are looking for a Nauru solution, or maybe a Port Moresby solution, to their Australian pay, superannuation levy and conditions problems. There is after all, more than a hint of ‘barking mad’ in the commentary Qantas has offered on the restructuring, and earlier in the year, to the Senate Inquiry into airline safety and pilot training standards.

The key planks of the Qantas off-shoring agenda are capable of being stopped dead in their tracks by legislation.

Qantas can’t possibly be threatened by a 2.5% pay rise for pilots. But it is threatened by a continuance of some very poor decisions in relation to its full service operations by a management overseen by a board nearly devoid of technical airline operations talent, and drawn from executives better known for their careers in the finance sector.

The only veto on change that has counted, very negatively, in Qantas in recent years has been that exercised by management on the necessary or timely fleet and network and product changes that are needed to keep the company in the hunt against its more relevant competitors.

Those failures have deeply harmed the carrier. Not foreign governments like the wicked Singaporeans who are, surprise, taking their time politely listening to how Qantas wants to finance and control a supposedly majority owned Singaporean based Asian premium brand single aisle operation guaranteed flag carrier rights in its bi-lateral air traffic agreements with other nations.

Ditto the Malaysia and China authorities.

Can we imagine how Qantas would have reacted had Singapore Airlines or China Southern or Malaysia Airlines last week announced that they wanted to finance and control a supposedly 51% owned Australian carrier to exploit the markets between here and say the US?

Oops. We already know the answer to that question. We saw it answered during the Singapore Airlines foray into Air New Zealand/Ansett, and later, when it sought direct access for its carrier.

This morning’s ads even come with a graphic that actually charts the failures of its management. This isn’t about unfair competition, or greedy unproductive workers, but an overpaid underperforming management that wants us to believe they are on about something called the ‘Spirit of Australia’ when they are really on about cutting out the costs of flight and maintenance excellence, the very foundations of the Qantas brand value.

This Qantas campaign, aimed at the very section of its work force that it needs to engage, is like the lunacy of the Australian retailers campaign in the new year against on-line sales. All that campaign against e-Bay and Amazon and other on-line commerce portals did was remind consumers how uncompetitive the major Australian retailers had become, and how easy it was to buy better on-line. The solution so intelligently argued by the likes of Gerry Harvey was to try promote a new tax. What were they thinking?

Qantas has totally lost the plot when it come to its international operations. Fairfax Business Day columnist Ian Verrender has a very pertinent column on this lunacy this morning.

Let’s assume that Qantas really did lose $216 million on its full service international business last year. That loss, while undesirable, was an integral part of the total product offering that made Qantas domestic and Qantas Frequent Flyer the successes that they are.

Reducing the attractiveness of international is never going to make it, or the rest of Qantas, stronger. But maybe Qantas no longer cares, and this is just a charade while it pursues the low cost trans border business model is sees as the big earner of the future. The Jetstar franchise is a great business model at a number of levels, but not when it gets caught flying indentured Asian flight attendants around the Australian domestic network at the end of 20 hour shifts that left them too exhausted to continue.

Not when it tries on dodgy pilot schemes in which heavily indebted cadets were supposed to be paid and taxed in NZ dollars, but live and work in Australia.

The restructuring announced by Joyce is like performing a frontal lobotomy on the carrier. Somehow it thinks that by severing half of its London capacity to gift those passengers to unpopular partner British Airways is going to have no impact on the rest of its operations.

It’s like thinking that punting full service customers onto Jetstar flights is going to stop them trying Virgin Australia, which will sell everything from discount to full service options on all of it flights.

Doesn’t Qantas management understand that when it tries to hand over customers to another carrier, half way around the world, they can still get Qantas points by flying all the way on Cathay Pacific, without changing aircraft, and without back tracking out of Heathrow to get to Paris and other European cities.

Doesn’t Qantas understand that instead of meekly accepting outrageous five hour long connections at Bangkok Airport to then experience the inferior and distinctly un-Australian ambience of a BA flight that they might defect, like so many already have, to the single airline offerings of Emirates and Singapore Airlines?

Qantas has set out to vilify its pilots over a 2.5% pay claim and carries on about so called perks when business class passengers are routinely telling Plane Talking that Jetstar employees in uniform are occupying seats in the same cabin for positioning to other parts of the Jetstar network. Qantas management’s answer to dismal fleet planning is to junk four aged 744s and 1000 jobs that supported half of its capacity on the routes between Australia and London, and enrich the competition.

But it hasn’t announced anything that will recruit new Australian customers, win back the lost legions, nor even keep those who have remained loyal.

This is woefully inadequate. How much longer, and at what cost, will this continue?




Bravo Mr. Sandilands. :ok:

Going Nowhere
27th Aug 2011, 04:37
Come Christmas time, I think that man deserves a ham! :ok:

Longbow25
27th Aug 2011, 06:39
Bravo Ben.

Buy that man a beer.

buttmonkey1
27th Aug 2011, 13:23
got to love bob katter, lol.
a bunch of brainless bastards...
:D:D:D

airsupport
27th Aug 2011, 20:29
got to love bob katter

Yes............ :ok:

A true blue fair dinkum Aussie who tells it like it is :ok: unlike the people currently running the Spirit of Australia. :mad:

ALAEA Fed Sec
29th Aug 2011, 02:09
Dear Sue,

Please be advised that ALAEA LAME members working for Qantas who will be covered by the proposed LAME Enterprise Agreement currently under negotiation will be taking Protected Industrial Action as follows –

Notification number

17

Dates of action

Commencing Saturday 3rd September 2011 and ongoing until Sunday 18th December 2011 inclusive.

Time of action

From the commencement of each Saturday until the end of each Sunday.

Participants

All members Australia wide


Nature of action

A ban on the working of overtime on Saturdays and Sundays with the following exclusions –

· Overtime that is built into extended hour rosters

· Overtime for Senior Lame, Supervisor, Duty Maintenance Manager, Team Leader and Check Co-Ordinator hand overs.



Stephen Purvinas

Federal Secretary

Clipped
29th Aug 2011, 08:25
Weekends off. Family and home time.

Steady as she goes.

Keep up the good work SP and team.

happy clapper
29th Aug 2011, 23:48
Thanks for the support Steve,
It makes my job up in FNQ a lot easier when I have the union backing
to work as much overtime while my workers are out trying, in the end to get me a payrise.:D
Lots of Love from FNQ

FCMC
31st Aug 2011, 11:45
Attention Jo Public. Can you see what we are on about!
Even I didn't know it was so serious!!!

Wikileaks reveals US fears about Australian airlines' safety (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/us-fears-about-australian-airlines-safety-revealed-20110831-1jlkt.html)

howyoulikethat
1st Sep 2011, 00:30
After working on FAA registered a/c for many years,the yanks are the last ones to start throwing rocks.......fair dinkum people in glass houses!!!!
"dirka dirka....dirka dirka....ahhhhhh dirka dirka!!!"

the rim
1st Sep 2011, 01:56
think you missed the point....they are not talking about how we as LAME's maintain aircraft but how the Regulator overseas the maint org's.....but lets get back to the thread.....and hope the happy clapper has got the "clapper":D

Clipped
2nd Sep 2011, 06:43
Back to the thread, thanks Rim.

A very pertinent post from BB on another thread.

The longer this continues, revelations adverse to management's agenda surface, and will continue to surface. More time for inquiries, more time for scrutiny, more questions to answer. Political, public & journalistic sentiment & commentary is running very strongly against management. Journalists are questioning the ad campaign, and can see through the deliberate "Trashing" of the brand by management and not the pilots. Pilots do not want to see the brand trashed, but clearly management do, for their own nefarious ends.

Time is not on managements side. Force them to make the moves, force them to sack pilots & engineers, don't hand them a licence to shut the place down on a platter. This is a marathon, not a sprint, patience.

I couldn't agree more. By the behaviour of some Managers over the past few days, the steady as she goes campaign is working, and working well. Managers look rattled and unsettled and desparately offering alternatives to have members break ranks.

Keep faith with the Bexley team and your mates and we will see this through, hopefully, with some management carcasses along the way.

howyoulikethat
2nd Sep 2011, 10:29
Oh yes,I'm sorry where were we...'ops managers?':hmm:

ALAEA Fed Sec
2nd Sep 2011, 11:07
I think the airline could do without Ops Managers. They didn't have them during those years of big profits.

Ticking Timebomb
2nd Sep 2011, 11:09
Tony Lowery the new manager of Heavy Maintenance.

Great credentials,

Currently Director of maintenance at Southwest Airlines (past 6 years) who oversaw the failure to carry out maintenance inspections on their 737 aircraft for fuselage cracks which resulted in a 10 million dollar fine from the FAA in Oct 2009 and subsequent "in air sunroof mod" of a 737 a year later.

:ugh::ugh:

Talkwrench
2nd Sep 2011, 12:14
You cannot be surprised in the least that they went outside to fill Keith's shoes. The team don't want anyone with legacy airline baggage occupying the upper levels.

Oh well, lets see how he goes. He's obviously on board with the teams plans for the qantas group.

Bad to the bone
3rd Sep 2011, 02:14
Omfg this idiot outsourced southwest maintenance to Honduras, Joyce and Clifford have employed another toecutter and union hater like nastyswine
The stage is set for a fight to the death, the death of Qantas the Australian Airline

ALAEA Fed Sec
3rd Sep 2011, 02:51
He didn't outsource it all to Honduras. Some went to El Salvador.

bandit2
3rd Sep 2011, 10:04
Keeps getting better doesn't it.

Ticking Timebomb
4th Sep 2011, 06:19
Oh Fed Sec I wish you can be on the tarmac to watch the cracks appearing in the network already and we haven't really got started. Guys slowly getting into gear. Lucky you haven't called for work to rule or they might have stormed the chairmans lounge again. 3 big boys wouldn't have left the ground.
Cleared 8 hold items over the weekend and raised 25 :ok:. There is always something to find.

Bootstrap1
4th Sep 2011, 10:55
Tell the world timebomb. Let those managers know all your secrets.

YOSHI
4th Sep 2011, 13:23
Hey Timebomb,

Which 'oops!' manager are you?

whatdouknow
4th Sep 2011, 22:17
From what I understand the ops managers are started to feel the pressure and the word is that they are not enjoying their jobs at the moment...

Some have suggested that perhaps they should have stayed as leaders instead of entering into the domain of Smoke and Mirrors!

Something else being said is "do they honestly believe the drivel being spun"

Good to see that OT bans are making it all seem worthwhile and can't wait to see what the next notification will be...

whatdouknow
4th Sep 2011, 23:17
Hey YOSHI... do you think an OPS manager will raise defects?

From what I hear they are purely there to speed up production regardless of defects, procedures and safety.

Ticking Timebomb, glad to see you also signed off some defects, shame there were so many others that caused you concern.

ALAEA Fed Sec
5th Sep 2011, 03:52
Dear Sue,

Please be advised that ALAEA LAME members working for Qantas who will be covered by the proposed LAME Enterprise Agreement currently under negotiation will be taking Protected Industrial Action as follows –

Notification number

18

Date of commencement of action

Friday 9th September 2011.

Time of action

From 0500 on Friday 9th September 2011 to 0059 on Friday the 16th December 2011.

Participants

All LAME members who will be covered by the proposed Agreement.

Nature of action

Work to rule in the form of strict adherence with Qantas policies, Company manuals and written Company instructions.




Stephen Purvinas

Federal Secretary

screwstick
5th Sep 2011, 05:04
Here we go ! Boys in Cairns and BIT take note !!!

33 Disengage
5th Sep 2011, 11:59
It's better than having someone else chart it for you!

Jethro Gibbs
5th Sep 2011, 12:31
At Last its it the Fan Qantas staff walk off job over enterprise bargaining dispute | Courier Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/qantas-staff-walk-off-job-over-enterprise-bargaining-dispute/story-e6freon6-1226130052805)

ALAEA Fed Sec
5th Sep 2011, 12:39
And we have numerous reports of managers cutting corners during the stoppages. Internal reports will go in, they will be ignored. CASA reports will go in, they will be ignored. Reports will go to to the Minister of Transport and the heads should start to roll.

For you CASA surveyors who read this please note. We thank you for your surveillance at Adelaide last Wednesday. During the stoppages a manager unlicensed on 738 carried out Eng oil checks and did not certify for the checks in the log book. Can you please investigate further. We are wondering how the aircraft was allowed to fly.

(We may know how but would like to hear it from you considering you were out there.)

Oldmate
5th Sep 2011, 14:14
Go hard guys! Fully support you.

mmciau
5th Sep 2011, 22:23
ALAEA Fed Sec

For you CASA surveyors who read this please note. We thank you for your surveillance at Adelaide last Wednesday. During the stoppages a manager unlicensed on 738 carried out Eng oil checks and did not certify for the checks in the log book. Can you please investigate further. We are wondering how the aircraft was allowed to fly.

Surely that is almost if not a criminal action.

Mike

Ticking Timebomb
6th Sep 2011, 23:23
YOSHI there's insults and there is below the belt. To say suggest I'm an ops manager is just down right nasty.

I'm mortally wounded.:ouch:

Hugh Mungous
7th Sep 2011, 06:10
Posted on another thread.

Qantas chief Alan Joyce's pay package soars (http://www.theage.com.au/business/qantas-chiefs-pay-soars-20110907-1jx7b.html)

Qantas chief's pay soars
Matt O'Sullivan
September 7, 2011 - 2:52PM

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has received a 71 per cent increase in his total pay to $5 million, making him one of the highest paid airline chiefs in the world.

The boost to Mr Joyce’s total pay comes amid a bitter industrial dispute between management and key unions representing pilots and aircraft engineers over pay and conditions.

Qantas’s annual report, released today, reveals Mr Joyce earned a total of $5 million for the year to June 30, compared with $2.9 million a year earlier. Qantas’s share price fell 16 per cent over the same period, while the airline's profit doubled.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Mr Joyce's latest package includes $2.04 million in fixed pay and $2.2 million in short-term benefits.

All of Qantas’s senior leadership team received a boost to their total pay in a year in which the company more than doubled its annual net profit to $249 million.

Jetstar’s chief executive, Bruce Buchanan, received a total package of $1.4 million, compared with $1.1 million a year earlier, while Qantas’s operations chief, Lyell Strambi, saw his pay rise from $1.2 million to $1.7 million.

The second-highest paid executive was Rob Kella, Qantas’s former chief risk officer who officially left the airline on July 1 ‘‘as a mutually agreed termination’’.

His pay package for the year totalled almost $1.8 million, compared with $1.26 million in 2009-10. Mr Kella did not receive a termination payment nor a payment in lie of notice.

The chairman of the airline’s remuneration committee, James Strong, said in the annual report that the board had achieved ‘‘what we believe is an appropriate mix of fair reward, retention of key executives and alignment with the interests of the shareholders of Qantas’’.

‘‘This has been a year where company performance has been good relative to the challenges faced, and where a strong performance by management has produced what is, in the circumstances, a satisfactory profit outcome,’’ he said.

ampclamp
7th Sep 2011, 07:54
This will make you all happy Qantas boss wins 71pc, $2m pay hike | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/qantas-boss-wins-71pc-pay-hike/story-e6frf7jo-1226131590723)
Pay rise for our AJ. Worth every cent:mad:

One Eye Redundant
7th Sep 2011, 12:25
It's probably fitting, that he and his curly tailed cronies get their snouts in the trough for one last time, before we take them off to the abattoir. These people make me feel ashamed to work for the airline.
Stand together boys and girls, and lets see if we can make Qantas a great Australian airline again.

Clipped
8th Sep 2011, 00:01
And once again, the true motive of their actions.

Greed, money and power.

Nothing to do with safety, customer experience, air transport, employees or the whole airline in general.

Disgusting.

whatdouknow
8th Sep 2011, 00:46
from what I hear these little piggies will all be roasted to crackling at the end... that includes that pig swill negotiating team.

CaptCloudbuster
8th Sep 2011, 03:23
FEDSEC

I along with 1000+ others sent my forms as requested... Are QF management able to disallow this motion as reported in the Fin Review?

Why were we told otherwise by our Unions?

ALAEA Fed Sec
8th Sep 2011, 03:57
They can't disallow the motions but you sure would expect them to try.

hi-speed tape
8th Sep 2011, 05:25
These people are beyond repulsive.
I truly am lost for words.
& James Strong in charge of their remuneration !!!
They really are taking the pish out of us now !!!

lordofthewings
8th Sep 2011, 06:19
71% ...Go get em boys. Should also ask for a 71% pay increase. Airline CEOs go in the same basket as politicians...Greedy self righteous wankers.

JETTRONIC
8th Sep 2011, 11:05
71% only fuel the festering internal anger I have towards these incompetent mangers all the way to the top. You wanted war…well it just went nuclear…:mad:

right behind you ALAEA.

Jethro Gibbs
8th Sep 2011, 12:38
SEEK - Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) Technician Job in Melbourne (http://www.seek.com.au/Job/non-destructive-testing-ndt-technician/in/melbourne-melbourne/20603627)

Will see you working with a range of specialist teams in the most advanced aircraft facilities in the southern hemisphere.

Most advanced aircraft facilities in the southern hemisphere AVALON ! this must be a joke :eek:

hi-speed tape
8th Sep 2011, 22:09
I imagine that all the papers & crappy morning TV shows this morning will be fully reporting on the fact that some short arse blow in from the Emerald Isle that has overseen the demise of his company's Internationals' operations & butchered it even further, dropped it's share price to all time lows, failed to pay dividends to shareholders again, publicly slandered his workforce, etc, etc, etc, has had the audacity to take a 71% pay rise.
Come on journalists, we're waiting.

QFBUSBOY
9th Sep 2011, 01:15
Hi Fedsec

Any chance that we the members can have an update about exactly what we are asking for? There seems to be many that I work with who are unsure of exactly what the ALAEA is fighting for, as the message is getting muddied alongside all the company propaganda. And to ask any reps, they don't seem to getting any updates to motivate the troops.

Are we going to have any roadshows from the leadership soon? The roadshows don't have to be from you, but certainly someone who has the authority to speak on your behalf.

ALAEA Fed Sec
9th Sep 2011, 01:22
Our claims have never changed. You can find them listed on various notices we have put out but I take your point that the blokes are being confused by the Qantas rubbish.

Meetings will be run in conjunction with longer stoppages that are planned in a few weeks.

PTTSwitch
10th Sep 2011, 05:43
Just a thought i'm sure most have had.....

Engineers take action for a day, aircraft don't leave, business suffers. :(

Pilots take action for a day, aircraft don't leave, business suffers. :(

Managers, CEO, CFO, board take a day off, aircraft leave on time & serviceable, business booms. :ok::D

Ironic really!!!

SpannerTwister
13th Sep 2011, 05:48
Heard that one of the Association Reps in Adelaide recently worked a non-standard shift to help the company out with the no-overtime-on-weekends ban ?

What happened to the work-to-rule decree, doesn't that apply to union reps and roster changes ?

If we're not doing overtime, sort of makes a mockery if a rep does a shift-change to cover low numbers on the weekend ?

Any comments in the truth or otherwise of this FedSec ?

ST

ALAEA Fed Sec
13th Sep 2011, 07:14
I know not about this. Will try and find out.

rudderless1
13th Sep 2011, 10:41
Seems like a baited statement short of facts.
What is the reality and the norm? Was it done to undermine the Ot?
Did it? Did you approve it? Did you take it up at the time? Or
Are you just throwing stones and undermining someone
Who actively fights for your future and job security?
:ugh:

whatdouknow
13th Sep 2011, 23:39
I heard a little story from someone I know... the weekend work was only done for the purposes to attend the executive. Seems the fight is only just beginning

Could it be that the story is more interesting than reality?

So why has the 71% boost to the CEO's wallet gone quiet, are all the journo's asleep in the Chaiman's Lounge?

ampclamp
14th Sep 2011, 00:53
So why has the 71% boost to the CEO's wallet gone quiet, are all the journo's asleep in the Chaiman's Lounge?

That my friend is the news cycle. Outrage for a day or 2 and most move on to the next big thing.
Same reason Aug 24 was brought fwd. To not have the sackings released on the same day as a good profit announcement.
Same reason AJs pay rise was noted a bit later. Qantas people remember and the outrage is there but for most it is just massaged away. Having said that Qantas' rep is kinda tarnished and public opinion is low.

virgindriver
14th Sep 2011, 01:08
So why has the 71% boost to the CEO's wallet gone quiet, are all the journo's asleep in the Chaiman's Lounge?

I was listening to the ABC when I was driving home from work yesterday and they were saying that by giving him a 71% pay rise they are showing the general public what a great job he is doing.

It apparently is also mean't to show the Board's support Mr Joyce's direction for the future and that he is doing a great job as CEO.

Rather amusing spin I thought.

whatdouknow
14th Sep 2011, 01:18
Yes, I guess there is some spin there. As for the reputation of Qantas now, they appear to be in troubled times.

Spoke to a passenger I met a few days ago and she stated that Virgin had just stolen 80% of her $5m travel account, as the route/s she needed to use no longer existed.

She clearly spoke that when she got onboard a Qantas flight, the Aussie accent was the best welcome home that she could get... she has now transferred her Platinum FF account to the competitor.

LAME2
14th Sep 2011, 01:29
I heard a little story from someone I know... the weekend work was only done for the purposes to attend the executive. Seems the fight is only just beginning

Correct. Apparently QANTAS was not going to release the member for the exec meeting. For what it is worth, no harm done in my opinion. Better he use the available shift patterns to circumvent management wishes.

blubak
14th Sep 2011, 06:05
Can anyone elaborate on a story i heard that the o/t bans are already biting?
If it is the case,it just shows you how understaffed we are.

whatdouknow
14th Sep 2011, 07:32
Understaffed... surely not!!
Usual high overtime rates surely don't reflect that the workforce numbers are accurate?

legacy LAME
14th Sep 2011, 07:37
I think it's time we spent more time at home.
Let's do full OT bans

whatdouknow
14th Sep 2011, 07:53
From what I have heard... many employees have been on those for sometime. it has been mentioned to me that it is the same money hungry stooges that continue to all they can.
It has also been noticed by several that those in a certain contractor uniform have done all they can to assist during the weekend... on more than one occassion. Same culprits and they think that they are advancing a career by assisting.

Jethro Gibbs
14th Sep 2011, 08:34
It has also been noticed by several that those in a certain contractor uniform have done all they can to assist


Would that be ALG

another superlame
15th Sep 2011, 19:52
And then all of a sudden, nothing happened.

Anulus Filler
15th Sep 2011, 23:32
71% - Maintain The Rage

Write this down on every spare piece of real estate on every notice board (anywhere for that matter ;) ). When in times of doubt, it will give you strength and resolve. This will remind you of the hypocrisy, lies, deceit and arrogance you are dealing with.

71% MTR

ALAEA Fed Sec
15th Sep 2011, 23:44
Something will happen today......

Longbow25
16th Sep 2011, 01:55
Steve

have just received a letter from Qantas saying that they do not intend to table the resolution of No Confidence.

It appears that as they consider it non binding that they have elected not to table it for a vote as it is "inappropriate.

The gall of these people!

As if 71% IS appropriate.

Any comment on where we go from here?

A PM is fine.

Jethro Gibbs
16th Sep 2011, 02:17
If anyone thinks they are going to out the board and ceo you are dreaming they don,t give a rats what anyone else thinks.
Still awaiting news of todays action ?

ALAEA Fed Sec
16th Sep 2011, 02:29
have just received a letter from Qantas saying that they do not intend to table the resolution of No Confidence.



They are very cute with their words. It's to scare shareholders off from raising the motion. Qantas themselves do not raise the motion, it comes from the floor. The letters that 100's of people sent to Qantas were a "notice of intention to raise a motion at the AGM".

I am a shareholder. I will be at the AGM.

ACT Crusader
16th Sep 2011, 04:25
Exactly. Qantas can choose not to raise the motion, but that won't stop a sharholder (or many shareholders for that matter) raising it at the AGM. Get Steven Mayne involved as well...

'holic
16th Sep 2011, 04:37
CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 249O

(2) The company (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#company) must give all its members (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#member) notice (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#notice) of the resolution at the same time, or as soon as practicable afterwards, and in the same way, as it gives notice (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#notice) of a meeting.

(3) The company (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#company) is responsible for the cost of giving members (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#member) notice (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#notice) of the resolution if the company (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#company) receives the notice (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#notice) in time to send it out to members (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#member) with the notice (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s9.html#notice) of meeting.
I would have thought that not only do they have to raise the motion, they also have to notify all shareholders in a timely manner and bear the cost for this ????

ALAEA Fed Sec
16th Sep 2011, 05:37
They must do what is stated above but the raising of the motion is another matter.

Jethro Gibbs
16th Sep 2011, 06:25
Something will happen today......

And waiting still

ACT Crusader
16th Sep 2011, 06:49
And waiting still


Jethro, from latest ALAEA update


Two new PIA notifications have been sent to Qantas today. They will essentially see Heavy Maintenance members enjoying a free day on Friday the 23rd. On the same day we will kick off Mon to Fri overtime bans in other departments with a few minor exceptions such as handovers, OH&S meetings, built in roster OT and any overtime requested by the company to cover our stoppages (this is important for us as we need to allow an option for Qantas to prevent passenger disruptions). As is usually the case there are special circumstances such as urgent BBJ work that would be assessed on a case-by-case basis by contacting our office.

Jethro Gibbs
16th Sep 2011, 08:31
? on Friday 23rd September 2011
A full shift stoppage for any shift commencing on this day.
So what happens at Avalon Forstaff workers that are ALAEA members are working under a new and current EBA but can not work without Qantas supervision So what happens ?

ALAEA Fed Sec
16th Sep 2011, 09:04
So what happens at Avalon Forstaff workers that are ALAEA members are working under a new and current EBA but can not work without Qantas supervision So what happens ?


That's managements problem.

prairiegirl
16th Sep 2011, 09:28
thank you! prairie girl:D:ok:

Jethro Gibbs
16th Sep 2011, 09:37
That's managements problem.

Thats what I thought that will throw a spanner in the works.:ok:

another superlame
16th Sep 2011, 10:01
Whats the deal with all the SYD LAMEs rotating thru LAX at the moment? Is it true that the LAX manager wants to take more 380 A checks and 744 work?

ALAEA Fed Sec
16th Sep 2011, 10:40
MEETING OF QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED (ABN 009 661 901)
We the undersigned members of Qantas Airways Limited (‘Qantas’) hereby give notice, pursuant to section 249N of the Corporations Act 2011, of 3 resolutions which we propose to move at the annual general meeting (‘AGM’) of the Company scheduled for 28 October 2011.

Toolpants
17th Sep 2011, 08:43
One reason the media has gone quiet over AJ’s 71% pay increase is most of them are currently on a Qantas funded jolly to Boeing in Seattle at the moment.
The few Qantas stories in the media last week had little disclaimers stating this.

Hey Fed Sec:
With regard to PIA, if we are going strike for 1 hour at the beginning of a shift, wouldn't it be better to do the first hour of a day shift. You know, “first flight of the day” stuff.

ALAEA Fed Sec
17th Sep 2011, 08:48
One reason the media has gone quiet over AJ’s 71% pay increase is most of them are currently on a Qantas funded jolly to Boeing in Seattle at the moment.
The few Qantas stories in the media last week had little disclaimers stating this.




The press on the wage rise ran for two days. It's not going to grab headlines for a week. Many articles since however have refered to the $5 mill salary. They blew any support they bought with the advertising in one greedy swoop.

With regard to PIA, if we are going strike for 1 hour at the beginning of a shift, wouldn't it be better to do the first hour of a day shift. You know, “first flight of the day” stuff.



It would hurt them more and it may be considered down the track. We are only in early days though. Far easier for a dayshift person to extend one hour to cover the first hour of nightshift. Our offer to cover strikers with overtime must be genuine or the Govt may end it.

Toolpants
17th Sep 2011, 09:26
Even if guys don’t want to extend their night shift, I’m sure there will be a lot of guys on “days off” that would be willing to come in for a "call in" to cover the first hour of a day-shift.

ampclamp
17th Sep 2011, 10:32
relax toolpants, the steak has only just hit the pan and starting cooking. Stick to the rules, play hard.

Ticking Timebomb
18th Sep 2011, 04:20
Not too good in Sydney today. No spare manpower gridlock on taxiways. Aircraft delays. Reminds me of something ? Just can't figure it out.
Oh thats right this is what happened last time ?

150 million. Why are you doing this to yourselves Qantas ????????

griffin one
18th Sep 2011, 15:28
Not to sound like a Nay Sayer.
But has anyone actually thought that the longer this drags on the closer Q get to 145 approval.
This would effectively mean Q could import b1.1 limited type rated lames from EU.
low and behold pilots dispute of 89 just on an Engineering form, Imported labour signing off everything from daily,s to A checks.

Sun Tzu and the Art of War.
When you engage in actual fighting, if victory
is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and
their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town,
you will exhaust your strength

cart_elevator
18th Sep 2011, 15:54
Is there any way, as a shareholder, to obtain a list of Chairman's Lounge Members? It is a cost to the company, space rent, free wine and food etc.

Politicians seem to have to declare free flights etc, but not their Chairman's Lounge membership for some strange reason.

Isn't free wine, food etc something they have to declare by law?

It would be interesting to get that list out in the public view. I am sure there would be some politicians who make IR decisions and media/newspaper types that would look very 'vulnerable' to such a list being disclosed.

I would never personally suggest the Chairman's Lounge membership could be considered as either an undeclared perk.... or bribery :E

ACT Crusader
18th Sep 2011, 20:13
A commonwealth MP or Senator wouldn't have to declare it if they paid for it though. If a paid membership includes food etc, it's not really a gift.

If QF handed them a free membership on the other hand, then that would require declaring, but I'm not sure that is the case.

Sunfish
18th Sep 2011, 20:34
The Chairmans lounge is a narcissists wet dream. A lot of lobbying is done there. I had Two Directors inflicted on the company I was running - thanks to Chairmans lounge interactions.

The bitch who did it to me even admitted it - she exchanged those Directorships for a couple for herself.

prairiegirl
19th Sep 2011, 05:10
tell us how you really feel. anonymous doesn't mean free reign on jerk.

Sunfish
19th Sep 2011, 06:11
Prairie Girl. Let me explain that in the new wonderful politically correct world that is Australian business, we do have some company Directors and senior managers who are female, despite all that "glass ceiling" nonsense.

..And since we are an equal opportunity country, the females are just as free as males to be absolute jerks and creeps. By coincidence, the best and worst Directors I have ever seen were both female.

To put that another way. Alan Joyce has female equivalents, don't you worry about that.

To put that another way, the gender was immaterial. I just happened to use the real one. Would it help you if I said "Bastard" instead of bitch?

To put that another way, don't make the automatic assumption that just because you are female and so is your boss, that everything will be rosy. I know a few girls who have learned the hard way that this is not always so.

So much for Emily's list...

prairiegirl
19th Sep 2011, 07:22
for all you know, i might be a dude -

let me clarify - i don't think it's appropriate to use either words, online or off.

just don't get people that go online anonymously and rip that way. whats the benefit? did your point get across better?

c'est la vie. back to the prairie for me. :=

Toolpants
19th Sep 2011, 09:19
O.K. you 2. How about getting closer to the topic.

Josh Cox
19th Sep 2011, 10:32
Prairiegirl,

If someone using the word "bitch", or "bastard" for that matter, is offensive to you, perhaps the internet is not for you, there are a lot worse words than these in circulation, most can form a noun.

All opinions are welcome on pprune (except Winstuns).

Disengagement
20th Sep 2011, 05:01
Vote on this SMH link to show your support for the TWU strike action today :D
Qantas strike (http://www.smh.com.au/polls/travel/qantas-strike-20110920-1kie6.html)

LHLisa
20th Sep 2011, 08:09
QF started a new Y class service on 1 Sept including fancy pizza in a box. About a week into the new service a 747 between Mel and Lax received a message over the onboard computer saying don't serve the pizza, it is filled with salmonella. Too late. Pax and crew had consumed all the pizza already. Great product sourcing by managers. Can't pay staff, can't pay for safe food stuff.

Ngineer
20th Sep 2011, 09:08
Judging by tonight's media reports, comments by PR people and an ex-industrial relations minister, it looks like the start of the union's campaigns are already hurting the head honchos.:eek:

Jethro Gibbs
20th Sep 2011, 09:11
The galleys on Qantas aircraft are disgusting they are crawling with cockroaches do not eat anything not packed in plastic wrap and even then be very aware if in doubt do not eat it .:=:eek:

ACT Crusader
20th Sep 2011, 10:03
Tonights ABC 7:30 had a piece on the industrial action at Qantas, Fed Sec interviewed amongst others

Mud Skipper
20th Sep 2011, 10:15
Jethro,

Are you for real troll?

With 15+K hours on Qantas aircraft I have never seen any sign of roaches.

10's of thousands of us are facing an uncertain future due to senior management reckless actions and regardless we pride ourselves on providing the best we can.

The only cockroaches are probably crawling around in your head, go home.

Jethro Gibbs
20th Sep 2011, 10:20
Mud skipper you have not been looking very hard then c & d checks reveal all .

Ken Borough
20th Sep 2011, 10:23
Pax and crew had consumed all the pizza already.The crew could only blame themselves if they fell ill : why didn't they eat the provided crew meals? :mad::mad:

rudderless1
20th Sep 2011, 10:59
Why Ken?
Shouldn't the passenger meals be regarded as safe!?
Or should they be thrown out if in excess rather then the staff have them?:rolleyes:
Anyone saying Qf galleys are crawling with cockies has got no idea.

Jethro Gibbs
20th Sep 2011, 12:08
Cockies Two disinsections did not kill them off during a D check you need to get real people all is not what it seems on the outside.:eek:

Disengagement
20th Sep 2011, 12:25
I see Qantas media spokeswoman is talking up how TWU are paid 12% higher than Virgin , well if thats their tactic LAME should push for the same pay as Virgin lames .As their pay for 2 Licensees is the same as Qantas lame with 5 plus Licensees .
So thanks Qantas bring on the same wage structure as Virgin .

Is this the same spokesperson who is assisting the left handed Lames with left handed spanners and screwdrivers .

Also its funny how a work force can be looked out and replace by management for a day and their jobs remain vacant for the day and the only disruption to the day is from the locked out workers .

If this is the case maybe management should be placed on a 4 day week and the savings can go to the real workers , or maybe greater pay rises to the CEO and team as a drop of share price from $5.50 to $1.50 must warrant reward .

What The
20th Sep 2011, 12:32
Every weekend they go on strike and no one notices. In fact it is quite pleasant to not have the shiny pants around.

Mstr Caution
20th Sep 2011, 13:11
Isn't a Blue coloured ID for office dwellers?

Where's the RED ASIC for working airside & in secure areas of the airport?

1:13 into the video

Qantas industrial turbulence far from over - ABC Melbourne - Australian Broadcasting Corporation (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-20/qantas-ir-problems-are-from-over/2908406/?site=melbourne)

Roo
20th Sep 2011, 14:25
... at very least she would be required to display a temporary ASIC. Blue background is merely a corporate photo ID.

An ASIC must be displayed by all persons other than the intending passengers who access any secure area of an Australian security controlled airport. A valid temporary ASIC will meet this requirement. In addition to holding and displaying the required identification, Qantas Group staff must not access a secure area unless they have a legitimate reason for doing so.
Secure areas include:
• Airside areas (not limited to secure restricted areas);
• Sterile areas (excluding public areas but not post Customs controlled areas);

Mstr Caution
20th Sep 2011, 23:35
Regarding my previous post.

It appears the video link showing the substitute baggage handlers wearing blue corporate ID's has been replaced.

If anyone can find a link showing the woman who I think said "normally" works in the Qantas Trust please post the link.

MC

Ngineer
20th Sep 2011, 23:53
Would you be suggesting a security breach in a sterile area? Surely not at Syd!

blubak
21st Sep 2011, 02:36
Dear Qantas spokesperson,
whilst you are happy to tell anyone that will listen how your staff are paid 12% more than Virgin staff,it appears that the percentage difference in pay between management was not discussed-you must have forgotten this little fact in your rhetoric.Could you please enlighten us all ???

600ft-lb
21st Sep 2011, 03:28
Mr Joyce took a paycut, didn't you hear ?
Anyway
Alan Joyce deferred shares held under trust
Alan Joyce
Deferred shares held under trust as of 2011:
2004 Performance Share Plan 30,000
Alan Joyce Award (2005) 25,000
2005 Performance Share Plan 35,000
2006 Performance Share Plan 34,000
2006 Retention Plan 350,000
2007 Performance Share Plan 23,500
2007 Retention Plan 400,000
2008 Performance Share Plan 100,000
2009 Performance Share Plan 173,363
2010 Short Term Incentive Plan 583,000
Total 1,753,8637

Rights granted under:
2005 Performance Rights Plan 6,3501
2006 Performance Rights Plan 49,7202
2007 Performance Rights Plan 65,000
2008 Performance Rights Plan – 4 250,000
2010-2012 Long Term Incentive Plan 250,000
2011-2013 Long Term Incentive Plan 1,084,000
Total rights granted in 2011 1,455,070

on top of
Total rights granted in 2010 626,350
1. Mr Joyce can request to exercise these Rights to be converted to Qantas shares.
2. Mr Joyce can request to exercise these Rights to be converted to Qantas shares. 5,280 Rights lapsed on 8 July 2011 as they did not meet performance hurdles.
3. Mr Joyce is unable to request to exercise these Rights as the Rights as yet have not met the performance hurdles.
4. 250,000 Rights lapsed on 8 July 2011 as they did not meet performance hurdles.
5. Shareholders approved an award on 28 November 2008 for a pool of 750,000 Rights to be awarded. Performance hurdles will be tested as at 30 June 2012 to determine whether
any Rights vest to Mr Joyce.
6. Shareholders approved the award of these Rights on 29 October 2010. Performance hurdles will be tested as at 30 June 2013 to determine whether any Rights vest to Mr Joyce.
7. As a result of the outcome of the 2011 Short Term Incentive Plan, Mr Joyce will be allocated an indirect interest in 375,014 Qantas shares held in trust. These shares have not been
allocated to Mr Joyce as at the date of this report.On top of
Fixed Annual Remuneration $2,060,000On top of
STIP “at target” Opportunity 120% of FARIn August 2011 the Board considered the financial performance together with performance against the other key business measures that
make up the STIP Performance Scorecard and approved a STIP scorecard result for 2010/2011 for Mr Joyce 65.2 per centor an additional $1,343,120

Or how about just the executive group in general for the stellar performance over the year

Alan Joyce
2010 - $2.924million
2011 - $5.008million
Bruce Buchanan
2010 - $1.111million
2011 - $1.413million
Rob Gurney
2010 - $1.015million
2011 - $1.405million
Lyell Strambi
2010 - $1.234million
2011 - $1.695million
Total Executives
2010 - $8.912million
2011 - $14.436million

The poor executive class trying to save the airline from union thugs.. You don't need 'union thugs' to go in to bat for you when you're making coin like that.

Clipped
21st Sep 2011, 07:57
But, we did get two $200 staff travel tickets.

TIMA9X
21st Sep 2011, 08:13
Tonights ABC 7:30 had a piece on the industrial action at Qantas, Fed Sec interviewed amongst others

Yep, and he did a good job.:ok:

u6BkaTnDw58

Mods forgive the duplication post of this video, I believe it well fits this thread as well. I will in future post all relevant videos on the August 24 thread.

600ft-lb
21st Sep 2011, 08:18
2 x $200 trips that suprisingly can't be used on many routes if you want to take someone with you, by a few dollars. Quite sneaky.

On the other hand we should consider ourselves lucky we're not subjected to ill treatment like the executive committee is

An annual benefit of trips for these Executives and eligible beneficiaries during employment, at no cost to the
individual, as follows:
Alan Joyce 4 International 12 Domestic
Others 2 International 6 Domestic
Post employment, the benefit is two international and six domestic trips, based on the period of service in a
senior Executive role within the Qantas Group.Which a further subnote down defines the post employment travel as
post-employment travel of $24,6002 international and 6 domestic trips = $24,600
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1922/manatee22ym.jpg

When will the unions stop being so greedy ?

FMU
21st Sep 2011, 09:49
I post the following without comment-

National Press Club Address- broadcast on ABC1 today 21 Sept.
The speaker was Labor Senator Chris Evans, the Minister for Workplace Relations

Question from David Speers, Sky News
Qantas engineers will have rolling stopworks from October 10. “Is the Government prepared to intervene?”

Answer from Senator Evans
“ I have been following (the Qantas dispute) very closely.............I am very concerned about it....... I think the parties are a long way apart on their understanding of where Qantas is at, what its challenges are, and what its future is...............If you look at some of the comments by both sides it is concerning that there is not that common understanding as to the challenges, so I would encourage that both sides engage positively, and I am happy to play any role I can in that to try and make sure that we don’t see the sort of disruption that we saw the other day, we don’t see the loss of wages, and we don’t see any risk to what is a great Australian company”

Ngineer
21st Sep 2011, 10:46
And don't forget you can now use your long service trips on Jet*, and have the pleasure of watching a long-haired Johnny-come-lately bump you into economy because he lined up before you did, or watch them try to desperately flog off a *class seat before you get the immense pleasure of sitting in one. And finally end up spending your 20, 25 or 30 year trip in an economy seat with no free IFE or catering (if you are lucky enough to beat the que to get onboard). NICE :ok:

airsupport
21st Sep 2011, 20:23
Fed Sec,

Great on the 7-30 Report, keep up the good work for ALL that fly. :ok:

wingers
21st Sep 2011, 21:56
Is there any truth to the rumour that Newport Aviation people were seen at QF office yesterday, anyone know anything on this

blubak
21st Sep 2011, 22:55
He wants both sides to engage positively-well,blow me down,what a brilliant suggestion,we all await to see exactly exactly how he aims to achieve that!
BUT,before he starts he already has a 50% success rate-there is only 1 side he needs to convince & to further aid his campaign & contrary to all the false accusations being presented about the workforce,i would hazard a guess that there is not 1 member that doesnt want this thing done & dusted so we can all come to our workplace & concentrate on keeping the skies safe without the constant threat & innuendo that the other side of this equation seems to thrive on.

ALAEA Fed Sec
22nd Sep 2011, 00:31
Hey guys I have had calls today from both Syd and Mel. Apparently there is a document circulating with some names of Qantas Avalon LAMEs who worked overtime last weekend. It may pay to bin them if you see them, management are on the warpath trying to find out were they came from.

Jethro Gibbs
22nd Sep 2011, 01:30
So some Qantas Avalon LAMEs worked overtime last weekend why am I not Shocked .:ugh::mad:
I would bet they were Forstaff Lames before they became Qantas Lames .

Ken Borough
22nd Sep 2011, 01:49
Apparently there is a document circulating with some names of Qantas Avalon LAMEs who worked overtime last weekend.

So what? If a bloke wants to work, even if his brothers don't, what is the problem? One of the main reasons for the antipathy towards union is their practice of bullying. I know it's a circular argument but not everyone wants to strike. Just as workers are free to strike within the law, so too are workers free to work. Quite simple really! Those who elect not to strike ought not be 'punished' by their brothers. Vindictiveness is another reason for antipathy towards unions.

Certain union people here have much to say about alleged mis-management and other things about Qantas executives. Maybe they should all take a cold shower and have a look at the alleged mis-managemnt of the Health Services Union and then direct their energies at getting their own houses in order before 'advising' others? :=

600ft-lb
22nd Sep 2011, 03:15
Maybe they should all take a cold shower and have a look at the alleged mis-managemnt of the Health Services Union and then direct their energies at getting their own houses in order before 'advising' others?
Either you're proposing a strawman argument or you're accusing the ALAEA hierarchy of misusing funds akin to the HSU.

Back to your hole.

Arnold E
22nd Sep 2011, 03:52
. Just as workers are free to strike within the law, so too are workers free to work. Quite simple really!
Just as scabs are free to not take the benifits won by their brothers that do strike within the law, but they dont do they?

SpannerTwister
22nd Sep 2011, 04:14
I've never understood why the Association doesn't make the first line of their (final) agreement .........................

"Qantas agrees that these increases in pay and conditions shall ONLY apply to members of the ALAEA".

LAME's not members of the ALAEA are free to negotiate their own wages and conditions !

ST

Romulus
22nd Sep 2011, 06:30
I've never understood why the Association doesn't make the first line of their (final) agreement .........................

"Qantas agrees that these increases in pay and conditions shall ONLY apply to members of the ALAEA".

LAME's not members of the ALAEA are free to negotiate their own wages and conditions !

ST

So you want to bring back Work Choices.

Amusingly ironic.

:}

jasper289
22nd Sep 2011, 06:52
Jethro, I will take your bet re scab LAMES being ex Forstaff, they are actually former Sydney Heavy.

Jethro Gibbs
22nd Sep 2011, 06:54
Romulus they are all to busy screwing each other over now was bound to happen at Avalon all clawing to impress Qantas .

jasper289
22nd Sep 2011, 07:09
Incorrect assumption again

Ken Borough
22nd Sep 2011, 07:58
you're accusing the ALAEA hierarchy of misusing funds akin to the HSU.

Not at all. I was writing about the union movement generally.

Back to your hole.

And you wonder why there is so much antipathy toward unions?

benifits won by their brothers that do strike within the law

How easy/difficult is it to demonstrate what benefits were won because of strike action? History has show that very little is gained by the workers but a lot of harm is incurred by the employers. Why oh why do people want to bite the hand that feeds them? Yes, I can hear you now but remember that two wrongs don't make a right!. two

Longbow25
22nd Sep 2011, 08:17
Simply because the agreement applies to ALL those covered by it and not just those who are members of the Association.

Remember "Bargaining Fees", they were similarly excluded so like it or not both Union and Non Union members are covered by it.

Arnold E
22nd Sep 2011, 08:22
How easy/difficult is it to demonstrate what benefits were won because of strike action? History has show that very little is gained by the workers but a lot of harm is incurred by the employersWhat planet do you come from, where do you think the conditions that the ordinary working man now has came from??
Did employers, out of the goodness of their heart, give sick leave, annual leave, livable wages????
I dont think so, demonstrate to me how these and many other benifits were granted out of the goodness of their heart by employers, please.

amos2
22nd Sep 2011, 11:05
The TWU had a solid scab content a couple of days ago.
When you blokes pull the plug what scab content are you expecting?
And when the pilots pull the plug what scab content do you think they will have? If you don't know, I can tell you based on past experience!

Interested?

Arnold E
22nd Sep 2011, 11:20
Interested?
Yep....sure am

qf 1
22nd Sep 2011, 11:33
22nd Sep 2011, 06:52 #1902 (http://www.pprune.org/6711980-post1902.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/429209-qf-lame-eba-negotiations-begin-96.html#post6711980)) jasper289 (http://www.pprune.org/members/353021-jasper289)
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/avatars/th_new.gif

Probationary PPRuNer

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Victoria
Age: 60
Posts: 2


http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/icons/icon8.gif How to lose money
Jethro, I will take your bet re scab LAMES being ex Forstaff, they are actually former Sydney Heavy.




PERHAPS THE ALAEA MEMBERSHIP SHOULD HAVE SHOWN THE SAME SUPPORT TO THE HEAVY LAMES WHEN THEY WHERE BEING SHOWN THE DOOR.:{

Terminalfrost
22nd Sep 2011, 12:11
There are at least three of the ALAEA executive that were from Sydney Heavy when it got shut down as part of the Qantas Board's 20 year plan (which is 15 years in at this point in time). They signed up because of what they saw as impotent leadership at the time. The leadership has changed and the membership has matured. Qantas is not the warm and fuzzy company it was 20 years ago. 99% of the members stick together. They knowthey have to to survive and save the great Australian icon and they know the alternative is, everyman and woman for themselves against coorporate greed.

Jethro Gibbs
22nd Sep 2011, 12:37
So real Qantas Lames are working against action to help Qantas get the reconfig done just fantastic the Ex Forstaff now Qantas will be involved for sure.

hewlett
24th Sep 2011, 02:52
SO.... Who removed the 1 man turnaround procedure from the PPM and who was astute enough to find [sic] it missing. Good work, procedure is everything in this game!

brodle
24th Sep 2011, 05:12
"How easy/difficult is it to demonstrate what benefits were won because of strike action? History has show that very little is gained by the workers but a lot of harm is incurred by the employers. Why oh why do people want to bite the hand that feeds them? Yes, I can hear you now but remember that two wrongs don't make a right!. two"

Ken B,

Your management ideology would be less transparent (and appear less self serving) if you at least researched your posts.

There are numerous studies (including one relating to 20 years of airline bargaining agreements) that show collective bargaining has been the
best way for workers to keep or improve their terms and conditions.

Silverado
24th Sep 2011, 08:06
SO.... Who removed the 1 man turnaround procedure from the PPM and who was astute enough to find [sic] it missing. Good work, procedure is everything in this game!

It is there, just need to look a bit harder for it.

JETTRONIC
24th Sep 2011, 10:55
I can't wait to bring the ace up my sleeve out....war...you havn't seen anything yet....

Proud of the company i work for but your wearing the shine off Joyce...We wont let you any longer....

Arnold E
24th Sep 2011, 12:25
So you want to bring back Work Choices.Do you enjoy being a
Knob............

Disengagement
26th Sep 2011, 04:56
I find it funny reading an article in the SMH today , where Qantas is defending the massive pay rises to the CEO and the board even though the share price has fallen from $5.62 - $1.45 since Clifford became chairman . They defending their pay rises by stating they have done well in hard times and using excuses like the fines from the "unlawful cartel behavior" , new aircraft not delivered , several engine failures and saftey issues.
Are not all these the boards decisions , so why should they not be accountable for them and not use them as a defense for pay rises.
Think we all know the first statement in any Qantas Managements initial EBA claim is always "we have had some set backs and have come onto some trying times , so we cant give you the pay rise you are looking for ".
But this is opposite for the CEO and the Board you have made a number of bad business decisions which has cost Qantas its Brand and share price but get a pay rise .:D:D:D:=:=:=
Qantas grounds resolutions for annual meeting (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-grounds-resolutions-for-annual-meeting-20110925-1krsr.html)

T80
26th Sep 2011, 05:21
Good post Dis :ok:

The CEO and board are trying to pass the buck instead of accepting responsibility.
Seriously with the share price at such depressed levels wouldn't take much $$$ now to make a HUGE employee buyout of a chunk of the company.
Put it all into one holding company and have some say for the future.

ALAEA Fed Sec
26th Sep 2011, 10:56
Dear Sue,

Please be advised that ALAEA LAME members working for Qantas who will be covered by the proposed LAME Enterprise Agreement currently under negotiation will be taking Protected Industrial Action as follows –

Notification number

22

Date of commencement of action

Friday 30th September 2011.

Time of action

At the normal rostered start time of any shift that is due to commence on that day.

Participants

All LAME members who will be covered by the proposed Agreement who are rostered to work in a Victorian Heavy Maintenance facility.

Nature of action

A full shift stoppage for any shift commencing on this day.




Dear Sue,

Please be advised that ALAEA LAME members working for Qantas who will be covered by the proposed LAME Enterprise Agreement currently under negotiation will be taking Protected Industrial Action as follows –

Notification number

23

Date of commencement of action

Monday 3rd October 2011.

Time of action

At the normal rostered start time of any shift that is due to commence on that day.

Participants

All LAME members who will be covered by the proposed Agreement who are rostered to work in a Queensland Heavy Maintenance facility.

Nature of action

A full shift stoppage for any shift commencing on this day.

JETTRONIC
26th Sep 2011, 11:16
Doing a great job Fed Sec...Were 100% behind you.

600ft-lb
26th Sep 2011, 12:26
When do the line brothers get a day off state by state, I'd love to see the alternative workforce being shuttled around the country for 6 days.

I think the company are lucky we aren't the TWU. 1 week of action would cost the airline more then they would ever save by making us all irrelevant with the future workforce alternative they're going ahead with. If they weren't why would they object to putting into writing Qantas engineers for Qantas aircraft ?

71%

Suck&Blow
27th Sep 2011, 00:39
Hey Steve, Is there anyone in particular we should be requesting to handle our votes at the AGM? Wasn't sure if you wanted to leave it in the hands of the Chairman! :cool:

S&B

stuntcock
27th Sep 2011, 01:00
I received my details on how to vote in qf agm,Is it too late to vote for no

confidence in AJ ?:confused:

MEA332
27th Sep 2011, 01:38
The government can help make Australian Airlines more affordable by rulling the ATO not to tax airline staff on shift penalties and allowances. Other tax breaks can also be given in other areas and in other forms like salary sacrafice. The Government needs to also realise that airlines are not playing on an even playing field like (Emirates, Qatar, etc) and that tax breaks for staff need to be given to leverage costs on airlines in Australia. With minor increases in staff wages and reducing taxes, staff will effectively keep up with inflation and reduce costs for the airline in the competitive market the airline is in.

:ok::ok::ok::ok:

JETTRONIC
27th Sep 2011, 03:40
Whats the point MEA332...any savings to be had will just increase his 71% pay increase and none to us...

Time to make the [email protected] pay!

Bring it!

Long Bay Mauler
27th Sep 2011, 10:58
Anyone reading a News Ltd newspaper today might have seen the article relating to both ALAEA and the FED SEC.

One would be under the assumption that the company have employed the National Political Editor, Simon Benson, to fight their battles in the press. He must be gearing up for a jump to the Red Rat, and is writing some articles attacking the Fed Sec and the pilots union.

Its classic Murdoch press, considering that journos like this come from the same stables as News of the World in the UK, and its not surprising that gutter press such as this is printed in the newspaper.

Well done Steve, it looks like their cages are beginning to rattle.:ok:

Air of hostility to QANTAS tactics | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/air-of-hostility-to-qantas-tactics/story-e6freuy9-1226147375483)

Jethro Gibbs
27th Sep 2011, 12:14
Rumour that Qantas Lames at Avalon are going to work on through on Friday whats the deal with that.

ACT Crusader
27th Sep 2011, 12:30
Rumour that Qantas Lames at Avalon are going to work on through on Friday whats the deal with that.

Sure about that Jethro? Not Forstaff?

Jethro Gibbs
29th Sep 2011, 08:49
Heard the qantas spokesperson on 3aw this arvo he was saying ALAEA only out between 6 & 7 am on the 30th ? is this not a full shift stoppage ? or is Qantas this clueless as to not read ALAEA notices.

ACT Crusader
29th Sep 2011, 12:06
Heard the qantas spokesperson on 3aw this arvo he was saying ALAEA only out between 6 & 7 am on the 30th ? is this not a full shift stoppage ? or is Qantas this clueless as to not read ALAEA notices.

Hey Jethro, LAMEs have the ongoing one hour stoppages at various ports at the start of night shift on weekdays (ie different night, different port) so I think it's 6pm-7pm in Melb tomorrow.

Jethro Gibbs
29th Sep 2011, 12:13
Thats not how there notice reads it says Full Shift :confused:

Jethro Gibbs
29th Sep 2011, 12:16
Notification number
22
Date of commencement of action
Friday 30th September 2011.
Time of action
At the normal rostered start time of any shift that is due to commence on that day.
Participants
All LAME members who will be covered by the proposed Agreement who are
rostered to work in a Victorian Heavy Maintenance facility.
Nature of action
A full shift stoppage for any shift commencing on this day.

ALAEA Fed Sec
29th Sep 2011, 12:48
One hour in Line.

Full shift in Heavy.

legacy LAME
29th Sep 2011, 21:55
When asked by abc reporter what the companies counter offer was after the TWU was demanding 15 percent over three years, Olivia says "that,s not how these things work"
WHAT THE F!!!!!!
No wonder QF credibility is in the the gutter

indamiddle
29th Sep 2011, 22:22
anyone out there who can tell me where to post my "no" to the renumeration report? don't want to give to the chairman, not that i don't trust him.

A65T
29th Sep 2011, 23:14
Hi Steve - if you are going to the qantas AGM, can we nominate you as our proxy. Don't trust Clifford

ALAEA Fed Sec
30th Sep 2011, 00:44
You can nominate me for AGM if you like as I intend to be there. Not really going to make much difference though, my 1000 shares, your 3000 shares is nothing compared to 2 billion of them.

Would recommend everyone complain to ASIC about not sending out details of the motion we intend to raise.

mmciau
30th Sep 2011, 05:01
Lovely 'support Management and Board' article on back page of AFR today 30 September 2011.


Mike

lame1
30th Sep 2011, 05:40
what was in the article?

ampclamp
30th Sep 2011, 07:57
The share registry collects & counts the votes and the chair or nomnated proxy has the formality of casting them as counted afaik. Employees count for a very small minority of the shares held. Even if allowed it would be merely a moral victory but worth trying anyway.

Bootstrap1
30th Sep 2011, 09:19
I don't know where this campaign is going to end up but after reading Nassensteins latest memo re: IFE it doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling. Having said that there is a lot of construction about to take place on the jet base which would be the largest jetbase update in a while. So on one hand they are making some sort of investment but on the other they are raping and pillaging everyone from shareholders, to passengers and staff.
The staff here are long term employees and hope to be around long after the current board and CEO are gone, they are short term contracted employees playing with the lives and livelihoods of thousands. What do hope to gain when they will be gone before the next cabin upgrade or EBA?

Also seeing olivia front the media makes my blood boil. I know she is the puppet for other faceless people but what would she know about the staff here and what they have done and endured for the company. At least she brushes her hair now before fronting up before the cameras she must read some unflattering comments about her appearance.

Ngineer
30th Sep 2011, 14:07
I think most of us saw it coming. I don't work with anyone that trusts this bloke.

hewlett
1st Oct 2011, 09:06
Qantas staff were NEVER going to get the Panasonic work, decided long ago. Just like customer contracts and A380 HM.

Jethro Gibbs
1st Oct 2011, 12:17
Notice 050/2011 - All Qantas and Forstaff Members - The Toe Cutting Begins.

After Reading this Current Actions are getting us nowhere. :ugh:

ALAEA Fed Sec
1st Oct 2011, 12:41
The last notice has nothing to do with the impact of the current actions. They sold us out on the IFE work months ago. They intend to dump the 738 stuff after next agreement is eventually reached.

The plan for our actions is pretty much on track with what we expected.

blubak
2nd Oct 2011, 06:52
Well done Steve with having a copy of a letter he was involved in more than 5 years ago,makes you feel great(not) reading that catch phrase over and over again.Bet he never thought that would surface more than 5 years after the event-must be some more interesting stuff floating around somewhere in the Tasman!:ok:

Millet Fanger
2nd Oct 2011, 11:46
O/T bans must be starting to hurt, got asked personally tonight if I would work O/T tomorrow night.

Unfortunately, I've already planned to remove "belly button fluff" tomorrow night. Would have loved to have been able to help!

POT100
3rd Oct 2011, 01:38
Does anyone have any news on how the OT bans are going?.
I remember back in '08 we were getting updates regularly on these threads regarding flight cancellations,a/c stuck in hanger for days and weeks etc etc..But this time around, hardly anything!!

Toolpants
4th Oct 2011, 00:55
POT100; just keep in mind, the media have already used quotes from this thread for news paper articles.

Jethro Gibbs
4th Oct 2011, 05:32
POT100 has a good point there is not enough Feedback .

buttmonkey1
4th Oct 2011, 07:14
why not just check the hold item lists?
that is your barometer for any effects from pia
remember, the pen is mightier than the sword. :E

Dick.Hayes
5th Oct 2011, 13:25
Ok, I’ll bite RE: O.T. bans.
Unfortunately for W.A. travelers there have been heaps of delays, not only in Perth but also all the WA regional ports.
As soon as you get 1 small problem in the morning, it all turns to sh*t.

Ticking Timebomb
5th Oct 2011, 19:04
Are we having any effect ?


Qantas On Time performance

Week ending 11 Sept 90%
Week ending 18 Sept 89%
Week ending 25 Sept 77%
Week ending 02 Oct 62 %

That would be a YES !!!

Anulus Filler
6th Oct 2011, 08:18
Unfortunately for W.A. travelers there have been heaps of delays, not only in Perth but also all the WA regional ports.


So Dick, how's Karratha doing these days? Bet the OTP has no problems there.

PIOT Bord
6th Oct 2011, 09:08
Herald Sun is reporting that PIA action has been called off tomorrow. Is this correct? No notification on ALAEA website.

ALAEA Fed Sec
6th Oct 2011, 09:11
Herald Sun is reporting that PIA action has been called off tomorrow. Is this correct? No notification on ALAEA website.


The Herald Sun also reported that Alan Joyce had death threats but that wasn't true. Take what they say with a grain of salt.

Jethro Gibbs
6th Oct 2011, 09:26
FFS the article is about the baggage dudes read the story.
Qantas strike called off (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/qantas-strike-called-off-20111006-1lbec.html)

PIOT Bord
6th Oct 2011, 09:36
Thanks for your helpful input, jethro. The second para readsA strike planned by Qantas engineers at Melbourne Airport for tomorrow afternoon is also off.and it is still on the web.

Sorry for asking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jethro Gibbs
6th Oct 2011, 09:44
Prehaps there should be more feedback as to whats going on :ok:

ALAEA Fed Sec
6th Oct 2011, 09:51
Prehaps there should be more feedback as to whats going on


We are trying as best we can.

King William III
6th Oct 2011, 10:51
Probably the herald Sun running a line by QF to try and trick some guys into inadvertantly strike-breaking?!

Wouldn't put it past them!!

ampclamp
6th Oct 2011, 19:24
If some people want or appear to get their industrial instruction from the herald sun or telegraph and not from alaea head office , what can i say?
I would suggest that you do not read those vile publications at all. They are mouth pieces for the right wing to coerce the working poor to vote liberal.

LAME2
6th Oct 2011, 20:47
Prehaps there should be more feedback as to whats going on

With all that is happening in the background, I think all people at the coalface need to just be patient and wait for any official word from Bexley. Until then it is business as usual following the notices.

ampclamp
7th Oct 2011, 02:28
LAME2, exactly. Dont read the propaganda , dont read the tabloids. It will just make you angry. If the ALAEA exec or SP have something to say we'll hear about it. Otherwise just do your jobs, get on with life.

Bad to the bone
7th Oct 2011, 08:39
Compared to the last fifteen years the feedback has exemplary

Just got home from dayshift, Keep Qantas Australian badge on chest, Pen is mightier than the sword pen in pocket, all defects found suitably notated

Job done, time to kick back for time with the ruggies

chockchucker
10th Oct 2011, 01:31
Text Message just broadcast from FEDSEC. All four hour stop work meetings for today cancelled.


One hour stop work in BNE to go ahead as normal.



The plot thickens yet again..........

DJ737
10th Oct 2011, 01:35
Text Message just broadcast from FEDSEC. All four hour stop work meetings for today cancelled.

Way to go.....totally piss off the passengers. :ugh:

ampclamp
10th Oct 2011, 01:37
"Due to legal issues" pls await clarification before :ugh:

chockchucker
10th Oct 2011, 02:13
I guess pax would've been pissed off either way. However, a cost has been attributed to one side whilst no financial cost has been incurred by the LAME's in Sydney and Melbourne Through being docked four hours pay( Brisbane guys will still lose an hours pay for the regular Monday stoppage).


All the while overtime bans are taking their toll on the maintainance programme on the fleet with ever increasing deferrals and hold items. Only a matter of time before aircraft will have to be parked on the fence.


All avoidable if Qantas had an executive not hell bent on destroying the Qantas brand and its workforce.:ugh:

Nassensteins Monster
10th Oct 2011, 02:31
Qantas stoppages cancelled

Published 1:11 PM, 10 Oct 2011
AAP
Qantas Airways Ltd engineers have cancelled their planned industrial action after management threatened to dock them a day's pay.
The Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) cancelled the four-hour work stoppages at Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane airports scheduled to start from 3pm (AEDT) on Monday.
ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas said Qantas management distributed notices to engineers threatening to withhold up to seven hours' pay for the lost time.
"The airline is playing dirty pool with our members by threatening them for taking lawful industrial action," Mr Purvinas said in a statement on Monday.
"To ensure our members are not unfairly disadvantaged by Qantas management's last-minute curve ball, we have decided to reassess our position on today's planned action."
The industrial action was scheduled to begin in Sydney from 3pm (AEDT), Melbourne from 5pm (AEDT) and Brisbane from 4pm (AEST) on Monday.
Line maintenance engineers, who check aircraft on the tarmac, planned to stop work as part of a labour dispute with Qantas.
Qantas had warned the stoppages would cause the cancellation of 40 domestic flights on Monday, and the delaying or rescheduling of another 27.
Eleven international services were also going to be delayed.

Long Bay Mauler
10th Oct 2011, 02:50
I notice that the AAP story is missing a very important quote;

To date Qantas is the only company or union in Australia to
have been found guilty in a Federal Court of illegal coercion
in relation to an industrial dispute under the Fair Work Act.

Very selective indeed.:=

Nassensteins Monster
10th Oct 2011, 03:51
Qantas' campaign strikes out

Ben Sandilands
Published 2:26 PM, 10 Oct 2011

A last minute cancellation of this afternoon’s licensed engineer strikes at Qantas has avoided further passenger dislocations in the four-month war of words between the airline and its major unions.
The airline had prepared the way for a confrontation with full page “We’re Sorry” ads in this morning’s papers for those regular travellers who still get their news that way.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/0bd6ea4d7e0e401eca257300000473fc/3a4e254cef75ff1cca2579250010cb7f/bodyrich/0.46C%21OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gifclick the image to enlarge
(http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/0bd6ea4d7e0e401eca257300000473fc/3a4e254cef75ff1cca2579250010cb7f/bodyrich/0.46C%21OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif)
This is a strange set of industrial disputes for a number of reasons. Qantas has put a lot of hard work into ensuring that its passengers are well informed of the flight delays and cancellations it has seen fit to make in advance, thus minimising the inconvenience to frequent flyers whose brand loyalty keeps its domestic operations highly profitable.
However it isn’t drawing attention to this in its public campaign, preferring to emphasise the negatives of union actions it sees as obstructing its own plans to replace the brand as much as possible with Jetstar and to offshore cabin crew and pilots with fly in/ fly out arrangements to bypass Australian labour and superannuation obligations as much as possible.
The result this morning on live television reports from various Qantas terminals has been yet another charade in which reporters find themselves repeating the management lines about chaos in the air in front of what are perfectly normally functioning airports.
There are three sets of actions underway at Qantas authorised by Fair Work Australia after the respective unions met all of the tests of negotiating in good faith with management in seeking timely negotiated enterprise bargaining outcomes.
There are the Qantas long haul pilots, who have limited their actions to wearing atrocious red ties (made in China) and making in-flight announcements in support of the truth in advertising notion that all Qantas flights should be flown by Qantas pilots trained to Qantas standards.
There are the ground staff, mainly baggage handlers, who have held the odd stop work meeting and will do so again this Thursday, maybe.
And there are the licensed engineers, who in terms of network punctuality, perform crucial operational maintenance, and whose role was to have been taken by management workers this afternoon.
The media seems to have forgotten that these are the same engineers who banned overtime off and on for around three months in 2008, but in particular, in May and June of that year, and broke the resolve of Qantas under previous chief executive Geoff Dixon, when the airline gave in to their previous set of pay claims, which on expiry, have given rise to the current dispute.
That licensed engineers dispute did seriously dislocate domestic and international Qantas passengers.
Aware of the safety risks involved in deferred line maintenance of the type that the licensed engineers had been performing during compulsory overtime, Qantas meticulously reviewed the engineering status of each flight during that prolonged dispute to avoid sending off jets that might be carrying both a permitted defect in engine thrust reversers and a permitted defect in a wheel brake, which if present on the same jet, might have combined during a wet landing or other abnormal situation to cause a disaster.
As a result, the airline kept hundreds of thousands of passengers in a state of chaos for many weeks on end. Three years ago, and already forgotten.
Unless someone blinks these disputes will inevitably be resolved by compulsory arbitration, which means that the claims being made for job security by the license engineers and pilots will be dismissed as outside the court’s jurisdiction, while the pay rise and productivity components will be applied in part or full.
ABC TV reports this morning also claimed incorrectly that Qantas was in dispute with customs and immigration officials at international terminals. This is nonsense. That dispute is between a public service association and a federal department, and affects all airlines.

This story first appeared on www.crikey.com.au (http://www.crikey.com.au/) on October 10. Republished in Business Spectator with permission.

it's not often that Ben Sandilands gets republished in the Business Spectator.

airsupport
10th Oct 2011, 04:54
I think you will find that most people are now aware of what is going on, and put the blame for all their inconvenience where it belongs, with Qantas management. :ok:

I am so sick of hearing and seeing the so called news as it is just so one sided, just whatever Qantas and Olivia say. :ugh:

However just listening to the radio news here and after the story about the 4 hour stoppage being called off, and (surprisingly) they did say why, they crossed to a Reporter at the Airport.

He was inerviewing delayed and unhappy Qantas Customers, however the vast majority of them said that they were way more furious at Qantas than their Staff, citing the refusal of Qantas to even talk to their Staff and the disgusting pay rises for the CEO and others. :ok:

Qantas appear to be losing Public support, and rightly so. :ok:

600ft-lb
10th Oct 2011, 05:08
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/0bd6ea4d7e0e401eca257300000473fc/3a4e254cef75ff1cca2579250010cb7f/bodyrich/0.46C%21OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

Reminds me of this

BeP6CpUnfc0


And the union thug picture.. again seriously.

It would be akin to

Here is a picture of a board member or an executive or a major Australian corporation eating
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCxhE2PC_CSxCvYBqOPPFh7OUAHP20lrzMWkB-16mYz7JQuSHkhA
It must be true because I said so.

woollcott
10th Oct 2011, 05:19
Has to laugh at one of the points in the ad:

"THE LAST INDUSTRIAL ACTION COST $140 million"

.....all down to their fault!!! They spent $140 million to save $10 million........
Why aren't the general public being made aware of things like this???

another superlame
10th Oct 2011, 05:41
Lyell Strambi has put out a company email gobbing on about how the FAAA and NUW members have voted on favour of their own EBAs.

But this comment " The ALAEA claimed that management threatened to withhold extra pay from LAMEs who took action today. This claim is entirely false." contradicts what we have been told.

So what is the truth?

airsupport
10th Oct 2011, 05:47
Now that horrid Olivia is on the radio trying to blame all the mess on the Engineers. :mad:

She says that after all the inconvenience caused to QF pax today by the Engineers they will not lose 1 cent of pay AND that QF have not been officially notified that the strike is off, only by what they heard in the media.

Of course she failed to mention about the threat from QF to dock the Engineers a full days pay for a 4 hour strike, why confuse the Public with the truth. :rolleyes:

The masked goatrider
10th Oct 2011, 05:55
She says that after all the inconvenience caused to QF pax today by the Engineers they will not lose 1 cent of pay AND that QF have not been officially notified that the strike is off, only by what they heard in the media.


Oh my poor heart bleeds.

Ngineer
10th Oct 2011, 06:01
Any reaction is a good reaction. If there was no reaction, then the PIA process would not be having the effect is was designed for. (ie, working towards a fair outcome for both parties).

NewPiper
10th Oct 2011, 09:58
The engineers union are falling into a trap. They are digging their own graves. Telling pax to NOT fly QF is not a good tactic, its essentially vandalising the Company brand (recoverable from QF's perspective), and cannot be good for ALL engineers. It also increases the likelihood of more redundancies within their ranks and SOONER because the Qantas business will inevitably drop off as a result of their action leaving Qantas an awesome excuse to downsize or reduce growth/restructure (short term) and get rid of more menacing staff. Also, the sooner they shut down mainline LH (a possibility and then re-start later in the future) the better off shareholders will be, which whether you like it or not is the end game. If this happens, the share price would actually rise sharply. Although its a radical step, Qantas knows this and everything the Unions are currently doing just makes this scenario a better chance. There might be 6,7,8 thousand staff willing to strike, but there is still many thousands more apparently happy, but at real risk of seeing some of their jobs go down the drain. Its hard to swallow I know, but todays Qantas in todays tough business world doesn't owe anyone a job or career. That’s my 2c worth so you can all start shooting me down now! I would not neccesarily trust everything your union leaders tell you, and that is not to say you should trust QF either. In reality, neither party should be trusted!

BaronB
10th Oct 2011, 10:16
I think you will find that most people are now aware of what is going on, and put the blame for all their inconvenience where it belongs, with Qantas management.

Isn't this just a little bit like hearing what you want to hear? Given the publicity around LAMEs taking the action, calling it off at the last minute with no good reason really seems to have shot ourselves in teh foot.

PIOT Bord
10th Oct 2011, 10:23
NewPiper, you can sit back and watch management let the company "bleed out", or you can grow a spine, stand up and be counted.

Ask any ex-Ansett employee what they should have done as they observed management stuff up there?

It's a funny (sic) thing! Those that get paid the big bucks are either blind, stupid, or have another agenda. Those working at the "coalface" can see exactly what's happening.

pab768
10th Oct 2011, 10:24
SP - you're comments today telling the public NOT to fly with Qantas were outrageous! You have jumped too far over the line!
You seem to have a complete hatred for Qantas that is clouding you better judgement! They pay my bills, and the bills of thousands of other employees! Be sensible in you statements to the media!

If the company are "threatening" to dock 7 hours wage for a 4 hour stoppage - LET THEM! If it's unlawful, then pursue the legal options. We're all willing to sacrifice a bit for the bigger cause, but to openly discourage our customers NOT to fly with Qantas means they won't be flying with us for a long time into the future. Loss of market share takes a long time to recover from. Delaying a passenger is a short term pain that many of them understand and sympathise.

Can we please be sensible, and above all - PROFESSIONAL when talking to the media!

Jethro Gibbs
10th Oct 2011, 10:25
The decision made this morning is in response to notices distributed by management, illegally threatening to withhold up to 7 hours pay for the time not worked.



If it was Illegal then why call it off at some stage did not the ALAEA used to have a lawyer as part of there staff ?

ALAEA Fed Sec
10th Oct 2011, 10:30
That’s my 2c worth so you can all start shooting me down now!

Ok. Why do you think unions take Industrial Action? ........ It's not to upset customers or in our case passengers. It's to take away from management the thing that is nearest and dearest to them, the profits. When profits fall, the owners start asking questions. The owners being the shareholders at Qantas.

Now when we take action, there is no point if Qantas are still collecting the money but planes are just going out late. That just upsets customers. Isn't it better to pre-advise customers that the product that they are buying is not going to be available?

At the end of the day, every bit of profit right now is being used in a campaign against Qantas staff. That is every red cent is being invested in airlines that are competing directly with Qantas for air services. Why would we want to feed a parent company so they can destroy the core business through competition.

When all is said and done Qantas will be damaged. But it will not be destroyed. Joyce and his mates stripped all the assets out of Ansett before its demise. If you open your eyes you will note that they are doing it again, it's just that some of us can see it before all is lost.

That's all for now.
cheers

ellie1
10th Oct 2011, 10:31
"No other airline does it," Mr Joyce said. "We have the equivalent of 14 licensed engineers per aircraft - our competitors average two."

Comments?

NewPiper
10th Oct 2011, 10:33
You said "Ask any ex-Ansett employee what they should have done as they observed management stuff up there"

Are you suggesting that perhaps this new QF Asian strategy will result in a Company failure?? If so, that is just speculation at this stage and to be fair, no one will really know for a few years yet. But if you want me to speculate, I think the starategy will be a Company maker because the Qantas group will become for shareholders (via Jetstar) the Ryanair of Asia.

RATpin
10th Oct 2011, 10:41
PIOT BORD,think you hit the nail on the head with "another agenda". That would be the one that started with the purchase of Impulse.

Millet Fanger
10th Oct 2011, 10:50
I'll bite, ellie1.

I don't have much confidence in what Mr Joyce says, I don't think Qantas pilots are kamikazes, and I don't think the majority of Qantas staff are rogue. However, Mr Joyce has also said that Qantas is the only "investment grade" airline in the world, it is one of the most profitable airlines in the world, and it has amoung the best punctuality of airlines in the world.

Fact: Qantas has not lost one passenger due to an aviation incident.

Maybe having whatever ratio of licenced engineers that Qantas has is not such a bad thing!!!!

NewPiper
10th Oct 2011, 11:14
ALAEA Fed Sec,
When profits fall, management shoot first, then ask questions.

Hurting profits will hurt QF but more so your members. No single employee group is irreplaceable. The entrepreneurs will always find another solution.

Millet Fanger
10th Oct 2011, 11:26
Management started shooting a long time ago. Staff were the victims, profits were rising.

another superlame
10th Oct 2011, 11:30
SO 2 LAMEs per dugong. Yeah right.

sfde
10th Oct 2011, 11:30
Get your resume ready new piper you might be a chance.

NewPiper
10th Oct 2011, 11:31
but managers ask questions first when profits are rising. For unions these days, its all unwinnable.

Jetro6UL
10th Oct 2011, 12:06
Fact: Qantas has not lost one passenger due to an aviation incident.


Fact: Qantas has lost over sixty passengers in nine fatal crashes.

I would've thought that people would have learnt by now not to believe the PR spin, lol.

Arnold E
10th Oct 2011, 12:14
If it was Illegal then why call it off at some stage did not the ALAEA used to have a lawyer as part of there staff ?
Good point, if in fact it is illegal, then surely this would, in the end, be a win for ALAEA
members, would it not??

Ticking Timebomb
10th Oct 2011, 12:41
Re No other airline does it," Mr Joyce said. "We have the equivalent of 14 licensed engineers per aircraft - our competitors average two."

Comments?

Yes ellie 1 I have a comment. Allan Joyce the self professed mathemetician can't add up.
152 Qantas aircraft divided by 1600 LAME's does not equal 14. Are these the same accountants who calculated International losses.

Fed Sec I see no difference in advising passengers not to fly QF than Allan Joyce telling the WORLD Qantas international is dead. Any bad press against these morons will get them in the end. If they want it to stop then they need to sort the EBA out. Easy.

One thing boils in my brain everyday and thats Olivia's comments on tv the other day when asked what is Qantas' counter offer. Her reply "thats not how we do our business".
Isn't that how negotiations are supposed to work. Both sides giving and taking. No wonder 12 months later we have no agreement.

Qantas says

"THATS NOT HOW WE DO OUR BUSINESS." WE DON'T NEGOTIATE
"THATS NOT HOW WE DO OUR BUSINESS." WE DON'T NEGOTIATE
"THATS NOT HOW WE DO OUR BUSINESS." WE DON'T NEGOTIATE
"THATS NOT HOW WE DO OUR BUSINESS." WE DON'T NEGOTIATE


Keep up the good work Steve. The guys are 100% behind you. Better to have died trying than to sit idley by and await the slaughter from these corporate thieves.

Remember brothers these fools ran Ansett.
Joyce 71% increase in renumeration.
No new aircraft to Qantas International.
G Dixon 28 million from QF since 2008.
Qantas hates its employees.

AND WE ARE THE BAD GUYS......yeah right.

Toolpants
10th Oct 2011, 12:50
Well played today Steve and the ALAEA.

Keep up the good work.

Far safer for everyone’s pay to just have the meetings on Friday.

I agree, when we take action, there is no point if Qantas are still collecting the money but planes are just going out late. That just upsets customers. Definitely better to pre-advise customers that the product that they are buying is not going to be available?

Anulus Filler
10th Oct 2011, 19:33
G Dixon 28 million from QF since 2008

To think what all that money could have bought as far as decent equipment and facilities.....:{

ALAEA Fed Sec
10th Oct 2011, 20:17
Dear Sue,

Please be advised that ALAEA LAME members working for Qantas who will be covered by the proposed LAME Enterprise Agreement currently under negotiation will be taking Protected Industrial Action as follows –

Notification number

27

Date of commencement of action

Friday 14th October 2011.

Time of action

1600-2000

Participants

All LAME members who will be covered by the proposed Agreement who are rostered to work in Sydney.

Nature of action

A stop work meeting.

Please note that the ALAEA encourages members who are not rostered to work this period to accept any offer to cover the stoppage on overtime to ensure that Qantas passengers and services are not disrupted. Please contact the ALAEA office for any assistance you may require to facilitate this provision.




Notice to come out today.

BP2197
10th Oct 2011, 20:18
I know there are others out there who don’t agree with the current union strategy. What we are seeing is a classic case of “group think”. I will give you the classic symptoms (Google it for yourself – it is quite interesting):
1. Illusion of invulnerability – we believe we are invincible
2. Tendency to moralise – oppositions to the unions position is viewed as weak, evil or unintelligent
3. Feeling of unanimity – all members share the leaders vision. Rather than appearing weak, members keep opposing views to themselves. This is due to the pressure of group solidarity and can distort the judgement of individual members.
4. Pressure to conform – formal and informal attempts are made to prevent divergent views
5. Opposing ideas dismissed – group members show favouritism to their own ideas
This phenomena isn’t just our issue, the same clowns who caused the GFC were also victim to this as they collectively didn’t want to see that something was wrong. We need to change course before New Piper’s predictions come true.

qf 1
10th Oct 2011, 20:19
28 mil for MR Dixon in 2008,wasn't that the year Qantas posted a 45 mil profit,so one man out of 35,000 took 25% of the entire Qantas group profits,and this management have a problem with the unions.bugger me.

BP2197
10th Oct 2011, 20:45
Exec pay is a just a little inconsistent isn't it. Here is a supporting article from SMH yesterday:
Theory of capitalism doesn't apply to executive pay, neither does the law of gravity (http://www.smh.com.au/business/theory-of-capitalism-doesnt-apply-to-executive-pay-neither-does-the-law-of-gravity-20111010-1lhkr.html)

NewPiper
10th Oct 2011, 21:32
BP2197,

Your point No 4 is exactly the reason why AIPA has asked its Pilot members to wear red ties. Its a classic 'silent' way of gathering and measuring support (sometimes fake) and increasing pressure on those members who may be toying with the idea of not participating or even worse, resigning from the union. It definitely sorts the men from the boys. In this case, the men are the ones who have an apposing view to that of the union and actually have the guts to express it.

NP