Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin

Old 30th Sep 2010, 22:47
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orstralya
Posts: 352
Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin

Hang onto your hats folks, looks like this could be 2008 all over again if, after day 1, the only words QF management can muster during negotiations is NO.

The following is the EBA update #1 email sent out to all QF LAME's from QF management.


Interesting times ahead.............



Dear all,

As you are aware, the LAME EBA negotiations have commenced.

The first negotiation meeting took place today between representatives from Qantas and representatives from the ALAEA. Representatives from Qantas were Gavin Harris, Keith Clark, Douglas Mills, Sue Bussell, Annie Schmidt, and Ian Oldmeadow. Steve Purvinas, Paul Cousins, Mark Gant, Wayne Vasta, Michael Weitenberg, Wes Bell, Brett Bradbury and Vinko Vulin represented the ALAEA.

Gareth Evans, Chief Financial Officer, attended the meeting and presented a balanced view of the major challenges facing the company. Some of these include the need to increase our profitability to successfully fund our ongoing fleet upgrade and to remain competitive against some extremely fierce competition.

During the meeting, the ALAEA verbally put forward a very extensive ambit claim, which so far does not include a wage claim.

A large number of these claims are simply unachievable for Qantas, and to implement them would have a serious impact on the long-term viability of Qantas Engineering as a whole. We made these concerns known to the ALAEA during the meeting.

We want to conduct these negotiations in a timely manner that results in a fair and equitable outcome for employees and ensures the long-term sustainability of Qantas Engineering.

Regards,

Gavin and Keith
chockchucker is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 01:48
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 804
A large number of these claims are simply unachievable for Qantas, and to implement them would have a serious impact on the long-term viability of Qantas Engineering as a whole. We made these concerns known to the ALAEA during the meeting.
May as well close the shop its all to hard
Jethro Gibbs is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 05:44
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: antarctica
Posts: 21
Seems as though I will be dusting off my poison pen for use again if the EA turns nasty. I am waiting for the call to arms.
poison pen is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 07:03
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,672
A source said that Oldmeadow Consulting believes that QF management have missed the opportunity to hammer the QF engineers and pilots (thanks to the successful PIA undertaken by the ALAEA a couple of years ago). They are not flush with cash to undertake a protracted dispute and they don't want to burn a number of premium passengers as they did last time.

Obviously, they are not going to admit this which is why they make statements like,
A large number of these claims are simply unachievable for Qantas, and to implement them would have a serious impact on the long-term viability of Qantas Engineering as a whole. We made these concerns known to the ALAEA during the meeting.
Essentially, they are playing poker holding zip in their hand.
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 08:54
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 56
Posts: 1,437
Gareth Evans, Chief Financial Officer, attended the meeting and presented a balanced view of the major challenges facing the company. Some of these include the need to increase our profitability to successfully fund our ongoing fleet upgrade and to remain competitive against some extremely fierce competition.
Start by culling all management bonuses and salaries, especially Alan's, then spread that money among the engineers.
Three-fold benefit in doing that, the engineers get the payrise they deserve, senior management end up on a salary that matches their abilities ( or lack of ) and it helps keep the airline remain viable in this harsh uncertain economic climate ( usual rhetoric from management isn't it ? ).
gobbledock is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 14:38
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brisbane
Age: 44
Posts: 290
Threats threats threats! Accept nothing or QF Enginieering as we know it is finished. No wonder engagement is so low.
BrissySparkyCoit is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2010, 15:13
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 427
Do they have any other lines than crying poor ? Sit back and grab your popcorn as this is only the kick off :-)
Hasherucf is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 05:02
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 179
5%

and you can forget the free laptop...
Jet-A-One is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 06:03
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 75
Qantas engineering as we know is gone anyway. Bit by bit they are slowly dismantling it. They have no long term interest in keeping it going.
lamem is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 12:07
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Bubble
Posts: 631
I would like to believe that Chris Nassenstein is a positive influence for us, the employees, but I just wonder, after his face to face talks with the workforce has he realised the current state the previous management 'team' has left us in. We are totally distrustful of anything a manager ever says.

Chris is obviously having a go at trying to win back the workforce he's inherited and good luck to him, I for one would like to be on friendly terms in my train of thought with the whole company. As it stands for now its a pure distrust for anything they seek to do. QFuture, no one knows what it is. All I can guess is that its a way to do us all out of a job.

How about getting a 10 year vision for Qantas Engineering out of the management this EBA negotiation. If I for one knew where I would be in the long term, to the best of the company's ability I personally would feel quite different. If the vision is to service only the fleet so be it. Would Singapore Airlines ever give SIAEC the boot ? Would Cathay ever give HAECO the boot ? No they wouldn't. Why is Qantas Engineering required to tender for all 'new' work. The 787 will be no different to the 380 experience and all the joy that has brought to the workforce.

The future is as cloudy as ever.. And Chris, as most of the old timers say. they've seen managers like you come and go, talk big, deliver nothing, next.
600ft-lb is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 18:58
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Downunder
Posts: 6
A Word of Warning

Do not trust C.N. Never ever ever.

Ask the AirNZ guys about the mess he made there. Plenty of very good Engr's left because of him. Since he left for QF, some of the screw-ups have been reversed. Unfortunately, some of the structural changes cannot be reversed.

He has been hired to break you, and he'll do it smiling.

I'll say it again, DO NOT TRUST HIM. Keep everything he puts in print, write down everything he says, you'll need it.
Oh, and he hates confrontation from large groups
zkengr is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 21:10
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 310
Reading the email in the original post, and coupling that with the new head of QF engineering, I fear troubled times are ahead for the employees.

Having witnessed the Senior Kiwi management mindsets when Ansett/ANZ decided that Ansett engineering was not a vital part of the core company, which in turn created an era of low moral, of which I have not seen the like again, I feel for your futures.

As 600 said, they come and go, however you guys are in it for the long haul. It is no fun when the workplace is constantly under threat of change that brings no benefit to anyone (not even the company) except transient senior management.

The Kiwis have a different outlook on IR, as compared to Australia, and their system is catered more towards the employer as well. I am not suggesting that one is better than the other, only that they are very different and It is difficult for people like CN to not keep operating under the Kiwi IR ideals when they move to an Australian based company, especially if they are employed to bring about change in the workforce.

Once they start bringing in the motivational speakers and organising roadshows, you know your futures are not going to be as you envisaged them.

I would pay heed to zkengr's wise words.

Good luck.

GB
Gas Bags is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 21:44
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NSW
Posts: 17
Info

Hey Gas Bags & Zkengr, can you guys give some insight into what CN implemented or the change he introduced in ANZ?
Be interesting to see if he is going to go down the same or similar path...
GodDamSlacker is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 22:31
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Can we begin with calling CN, Nassy and in a few months that can turn to Nasty.

What a minefield this road is going to be.
Clipped is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2010, 22:53
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 12
Posts: 1,517
Is this why the planes are accumulating heaps of M.E.L.s at the moment?

They went from being pretty good to dodgy in the last few weeks - and its starting to look like the way it was at last EBA.
blueloo is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 00:36
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Downunder
Posts: 6
Re

Slacker

Probably best not to divulge or discuss potential strategy on a public forum. I would be urging your Union Delegates to talk to their counterparts at AirNZ.

Good luck, there's plenty of Kiwis watching with a knowing sigh.
zkengr is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 03:23
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Hemisphere
Age: 55
Posts: 9
Air NZ all over again?

Before trusting Chris "Slash-and-Burn" Nassenstein, ask the opinions of all the Air NZ staff he screwed over - before he was given a huge bonus and then getting hired by Qantas. The man has a well-documented history of causing damage. As zkengr has posted, many Kiwis are watching this unfold with great concern. Deja vu. Hang tough, guys.
Engine Wizard is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 05:25
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,017
CN is not here to hand over the cash but he is and will carry out whatever his bosses say to carry out. The board and senior execs set the agenda.

They know the engineers are more united than ever before and I am fairly sure they dont want another PR disaster like last time. It cost a lot of money and the engineers got what they wanted anyway to a large extent.

I am sure they (HR et al) will play hard, that is their job but I do believe the eba can be done better than before. Depends on what changes they wish to make and what needs to forced off the table before real negotiations take place.
No one wins when the airline loses business.
ampclamp is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 07:31
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 804
EBA negotiations have commenced and they have already said no so what's left to negotiate ? so how long will the alaea let this drag out ?
Jethro Gibbs is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 11:33
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 310
Amp is correct in most of what he says.

The board does entirely set the agenda, with the expectation of people at CN's level ordering the execution of said agenda, and indeed nobody wins when the airline loses business.

However, this is not random planning from the board, it is a strategic and well planned agenda (they have had since 2008 to regroup) with input from many facets of the industrial relations arena.

Do not for a minute think that QF have given up on their plans to reduce terms and conditions of LAME's due to the last debacle, they are merely going down another track.

GB
Gas Bags is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.