Ryanair - 7

[Seat62K]

Does anyone know when Ryanair will release late Spring/Summer schedules/fares?

Thanks.

[apaul]

I doubt even Ryanair knows at this stage as it varies from year to year and base to base. E.g. a new base from March/April like Leeds is already bookable for early summer. Where they still have a lot of winter seats to fill they will release the summer timetables later. If you do not have to fly on Fridays and Sundays, however, you are better off waiting until they start flogging off the seats at £10 or less.

[pee]

Very common here in Finland anyway.

[mickyman]

pee

Thanks for that.

Anywhere else.......?

MM

[Tom the Tenor]

I know that we all hear how Yield is so important for Ryanair but lest we forget another scale which cannot be forgotten about is Market Share and this factor is very important to the likes of Ryanair and especially in relation to routes and airlines they are in direct competition with so quite often they are more than happy to sell Euro 5 all in fares to hang on to and indeed grow their share of the market.

There now, that is my little bit of economics for the day!

[mickyman]

MUFC_Fan

I do not think that such a lame programme,as it was, would elicit any
ripples of commotion like you suggest,from the Ryanair hierarchy.

The startled interviewer (looking like that Sesame street eagle)seemed not
to have clue what to ask MOL.

The best bit of publicity for MOL in years !!


MM

[Seat62K]

Some time ago Ryanair talked about operating "hand luggage only" flights (on an experimental basis, I understood).

I heard nothing more about those flights but recently something on television (BBC1's local news programme, Look East, I think) caught my attention. The claim was that Ryanair is considering "hand luggage only" flights again, from Stansted. If I remember correctly, these would be early departures only. It's easy to see how cost savings could be made if baggage handlers were not required for the earliest flights. What makes me question the veracity of the report, though, is the fact that baggage charges must be a moneyspinner for Ryanair. Having all passengers taking hand luggage only would be like all passengers using Electron cards, surely? (Or am I missing something? Are high baggage charges designed to persuade passengers not to take hold luggage?)

Is there anyone who knows whether there's any truth to this?

[apaul]

Hasn't O'Leary stated that he will keep increasing the baggage charges until no one takes hold luggage?

[flying_shortly]

Flew with Ryanair yesterday on connecting flights and I just wanted to say the operation they have is unbelievable! I was not delayed at all. Great flights, great crew. And what's more I got the flights for free. I was particulary impressed with Stansted. It's a constant flow of people. All the flights I was on were very full.

I'll be using Learyair again for sure!

[racedo]

and back to airlines, airports and routes.......

FR have announced discussions taking place with SNN regarding new 5 year deal from April 2010.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This is JUST the sort of thing we do not need. For one thing it is advertising.

Electron cards!! Is that about Airlines, Routes and Airports?

Just have a look at how much the thread is cut by the absolute rubbish you are posting.

Get real and stick to what this forum is for or this thread goes! And there will be some banning.

AA&R

[pee]

OK. So now something more "serious", from Scandinavia. Ryanair news release in Norwegian (you can read it having changed the language version of FR site). I do not actually speak Norwegian, but it's pretty similar to Swedish, so here we go:
Ryanair, the world's favorite airline, has congratulated today SAS to be Norway's biggest loser. Over the past year SAS has lost 5 billion NOK, messed up 263,000 pieces of their passengers' baggage, lost 3 million travelers since January, and now they have lost 4 of their top leaders in SAS Norway.

In the same period, Ryanair has established itself on a new airport in Norway, offering Norwegians 13 new routes in Europe and will double the traffic from Norway during the next 12 months.

To celebrate (the cheap ticket offer follows)...

In a comment Ryanair's Stephen McNamara says:

- The message from the Norwegian people, they are tired of SAS's high prices, lost baggage and countless strikes. As a result, 3 million passengers switched to low cost Ryanair wings and is taking advantage of lower fares and fantastic destinations.

- The top executives' escape from SAS Norway means that the company is having big problems. But never mind, when SAS continue to lose ground, Ryanair will continue to grow.
I do not wish to hear the same about Finnair, but the announcement of a few new FR routes from Finland would not be a bad idea either. :ok:

[airsmiles]

Not sure if this is the right thread but can anyone tell me if Ryanair B738 deliveries are always made to the same base for prep, or do they go direct to whichever base needs more capacity at the time.

As I understand it, they have 8 more due in November (although the 1st, EI-EFV, has been test flying for a while now).

airsmiles

[fivejuliet]

airsmiles, they always operate non stop BFI-Dublin where they either enter traffic at Dublin or position elsewhere

[EISNN]

So is Micky O'Leary gonna really reduce flights by 75% in SNN? Rumour also has it here in SNN that he's gonna have to pay the SAA all the passenger and landing fees from the last four/five years cos he didn't meet the passengers numbers level he promised/required. Is there any truth to it?

[super737]

EI-EFV operated the FR1415/1415 EMA/BHD/EMA rotation this evening. It currently is based at EMA. Normally new aircraft are just worked into the system and their placing is usually irrespective of requirements at other stations.

[Charlie Roy]

Read the item about Shannon on the Ryanair website, it's funny to see that what Ryanair mean by "Ryanair & Shannon Discuss 75% Cuts in Shannon Base" is: "Ryanair has written to Shannon Airport" with a list of threats and demands.
And there are two main questions here:

Are SNN going to give into Ryanair?
If they do not, then Shannon could loose half their passenger numbers. Has Ryanair really "lost money in each of the 5 years it has operated a base at Shannon Airport"? Why stay there so? Shouldn't shareholders be demanding an immediate revision of Shannon operations in that case? Or maybe Ryanair are making nice money out of Shannon but can fiddle the books to show whatever statistics suit. On fares alone they make a loss, bur on fares and ancillaries they make a profit for example. Eitherway Shannon are between a rock and a hard place.
If Ryanair do seriously pull the plug, who could potentially step in and fill their shoes? Aer Lingus are for sure a no-no and will more than happy to fly Shannoners from Cork to Alicante / Paris / Barcelona / Malaga / Faro etc, and Aer Arann could only deliver a limited amount of passengers. If airlines like Flybe or Wizz were to pick up the abandoned routes they would no doubt go looking for as good a deal as Ryanair are demanding, knowing that Shannon would be desperate for passengers.
Will the Irish government scrap the €10 travel tax at Shannon by February?
I'm thinking this is highly improbable, but not impossible... Even if Ryanair do carry out their threat of reducing the Shannon base from 4 to 1 based aircraft, who's to say they won't maintain a similar level of routes/passengers by operating routes with the aircraft from other bases...

[davidjohnson6]

I can't see Ireland benefitting greatly from inward tourist spending on flights to SNN from Alicante, Carcassonne, Faro, Girona, Lanzarote, Gran Canaria, Malaga, Murcia, Nantes, Palma, Tenerife and Venice. I suspect also that flights from Krakow, Lodz and Wroclaw attract relatively few high-spending Polish tourists visiting Ireland although this may help lower employment costs for local companies.

Beyond flights from SNN to the UK, Paris, Brussels and Dusseldorf, I struggle to understand the likely economic benefits to spending in Ireland by tourists

Perhaps time for Govt or quasi-Govt to decide that encouraging local residents to spend their money locally rather than outside Ireland would be a good thing ? [Otherwise known as calling MOL's bluff]

[apaul]

Letting Ryanair land for free does not seem to have done much good for the Canaries. Most of their routes seem to have gone for the summer.

[racedo]

Letting Ryanair land for free does not seem to have done much good for the Canaries. Most of their routes seem to have gone for the summer.

They were only ever going to be winter routes at this point in time.

[jferreira20]

Porto-Dublin is already in the route map. Great.

[airsmiles]

Thanks for the delivery info. Any idead when the others will arrive?

airsmiles

[jferreira20]

Today's a big day here in Portugal. The first domestic flight from Ryanair (OPO-FAO).

[blueplatinum]

Letting Ryanair land for free does not seem to have done much good for the Canaries. Most of their routes seem to have gone for the summer.


They were only ever going to be winter routes at this point in time.
When will we know if the routes are to continue into the Summer ?

[danielmellor]

Its The 1p Seat Sale again

I wonder if the guy from leeds will be off to dublin again for the day?

:ok:

[Seljuk22]

New routes from CRL (3 weekly from December), BLQ (4 weekly), EDI (4 weekly) and of course OPO (3 weekly) to Bordeaux starting March 2010.

Rumour about a new base with 3 a/c at BTS.

[airsmiles]

Apparently RYR are sending 35 B738's to Bournemouth for repainting this winter. EI-DCG is the 1st and EI-DAD the 2nd, with both there now being stripped down. I know they dispose of their a/c after 7 years, and park some up over the winter, but 35 is a hell of lot to withdraw so quickly.

Any idea what the plan is?

airsmiles

[jferreira20]

Seljuk22, where did you heard that rumour about BTS? Anyway, it appears OPO-BHX was definitely cancelled. It's no longer in the route map.

[Charlie Roy]

Lots of articles in Google news about Ryanair base at Bratislava. (None in English though, so far). MOL gave a press conference in Vienna today.
3 based aircraft, 20 new routes, no mention of dates...

In German: Ryanair spielt Bratislava gegen Wien aus « DiePresse.com (http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/international/517967/index.do)

[james170969]

Is anyone experiencing difficulties with the Ryanair website at the moment? I am unable to book a flight on my laptop and keep getting a message saying, "Error - Your session has been locked
We are experiencing some difficulties with the website. Please wait 10 seconds and if you are not redirected back click here.

If you have already submitted payment your new reservation or flight change MAY have been confirmed.

Before starting again please firstly check your email account to see if you have received an email travel itinerary or alternatively you can check to see if your transaction processed by going to Manage Booking section of our website and completing the information required in Option 3."
However when I try to book a flight on my ipod I am not getting that message and can book my flight without any problem.

[Charlie Roy]

Bordeaux flights are now in the booking engine.
It has also been added to the route map albeit in the wrong place :p

Personally I think Bordeaux has a lot of potential. Routes to more existing bases wouldn't surprise me at all. W's originating from nearby bases (Marseille, Charleroi, London/England, Hahn, Bergamo, Girona) are also entirely possible.

[boyzinblue]

Ryanair have confirmed that from April next year they will reduce there Shannon base from 3 to 1 aircraft.
A very bright for Ryanair decision considering they have made no money in Shannon in the last 5 years! Yeah right...and thats why FR had based 6 aircraft there at the peak.
It will be interesting to see what routes remain and which ones will be continued from other bases.

[airhumberside]

The original FR 'threat' said the remaining aircraft would 'largely' fly to London and provincial UK airports. So that would imply routes like AGP/FAO/BVA would remain at token frequencies at best

[LPFR]

Avoid which experience exactly?
If you book a flight is to FLY from A to B (or to C via B, whatever). It's all the same experience. You go to the airport, board, fly, and land, and that experience you get with any airline. Unless of course, you don't mind spending extra 40€, 50€ or 100€ for a dry sandwich and a cup of coffee. Not worthy in my opinion. With that money I go to a good restaurant when I arrive.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

James - its a biscuit thing...... clear your cookies and it should clear the path for you! Had an entire town near mine unable to book flights after the website "upgrade" about a year ago. Same issue. Great isn't it? :}

[Noxegon]

Avoid which experience exactly?

The experience of cabin crew blasting the passengers on the PA system with sales announcements for lottery tickets, bullseye baggies, train tickets, et al - particularly pleasant on 6:00am flights it must be said...

[flying_highover]

Personally, I just drift off. The announcements don't get to me. If I'm paying considerably less for what's a short flight anyways, it's all the same to me. They have to make announcements whatever airline you fly with. If you're that irritable then I suppose you have options to pay more..... But I like the way we all have choice in the matter.... I choose to fly cheapest....

[mickyman]

People moaning about a service they dont use is a little
stupid.......

MM

[Noxegon]

I don't have a choice most of the time, since EI do the same thing these days (though to a lesser degree for now).

It's just fresh in the mind at the moment since I took an internal flight in Greece recently that reminded me of how air travel could actually be pleasant.

[LPFR]

The experience of cabin crew blasting the passengers on the PA system with sales announcements for lottery tickets, bullseye baggies, train tickets, et al - particularly pleasant on 6:00am flights it must be said...

Wow! Yeah, I will definetly pay some extra 50€ to fly another airline to avoid listening to the crew over the PA! Oh my god. Do you even call that an experience? lol. I've done some 6am flights, and I'm not bothered at all. I don't mind listening to a sweet female voice, or, if I dont want to, i just listen to my music. Why would someone pay extra because of that? In every airline there are cabin crew announcements.

[Falcon666]

I don't mind listening to a sweet female voice,


In every airline there are cabin crew announcements.



Point 1
Exactly ,agree totally BUT on the majority of Flights i have used with Ryr from Ltn we never seem to get one.(strong eastern european accents dont help-on one or two flights it has actually been difficult to understand anything-talk too fast.mic too close to the mouth)

Point 2
Most LCCs imho go over the top on announcments in the cabin.Probably the need to sell stuff but is it really necessary to have the ON-TIME fanfare.(And they even do it when the plane is 30mins late)

Its the reason most people just switch off from listening and get the music out.

What will be interesting with Ryr is the on going battle between Boeing/Airbus over new a/c.
Think the boy crying wolf is coming into play.

Airbus know what the game is,they see Ryr as only a boeing customer.
Why should they play along and see ryr walk away.
With Easy and Airbus there was commitment from day1.
Ryr reputation is slowly catching up with them

[Zippy Monster]

Nobody is in the same league as Ryanair when it comes to sales PAs during flight. They don't leave you alone. I'd hate to do a 3hr+ slog with them, an hour is about as much as I can stand. easyJet et al are peaceful in comparison. And they're so loud that you can hear it above your own music unless you're listening to it at eardrum-bursting volume levels. :yuk:

[mickyman]

Falcon666

An order for 200+ frames would be welcome at
both manufacturers irrespective of the airline.
There would be something wrong if 'deals' were not
done on such an order.

I couldnt see Easyjet ordering Airbuses when they
ordered 737's, so anything is possible - do you not
think a 'deal' was done for the Airbus order?

I can think of some big American airlines' orders that
had these 'deals' so lets not cuss Ryanair for trying
to get the best possible contract.

MM

[james170969]

I agree but the PA volumes on Easyjet are just as bad. I have to hold my hands over my earphones in order to be able to block out the PA system and sometimes the sales pitch goes on for ages.

[Falcon666]

MM

Appreciate all orders are good but i think it comes down to just how serious Ryr are to change their fleet.
Easy did it with a vastly lower number of frames.
Would ryr seriously consider a mixed fleet?

Rumours are ryr walked away from deals with Airbus before so you can understand the Airbus view now.

I am not a betting man but if i were i couldnt put money on seeing a ryr Airbus anytime soon.

F666

[mickyman]

Falcon666

I agree but Ryanair have a history of walking away - dont they!

MM

[anna_list]

Ryanair Half Year Results - London Stock Exchange (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10255576)


Profit after tax €387M, much higher than last year due to lower fuel costs
Yields down 17% (average fare including bags €39)
Revenue down 2% to €1767M
Full year guidance unchanged: Losses in Q3 and Q4 to give full year profit "at lower end of" €200M to €300M
Total cash & equivalents: €2,536.9m.
Total debt: €2,586.1m, Net debt: €49.2m
"we have made little progress in our discussions with Boeing for an order of 200 aircraft for delivery between 2013 and 2016. We won't continue these discussions indefinitely and have signalled to Boeing that if they are not completed before the year end, then Ryanair will end its relationship with Boeing and confirm a series of order deferrals and cancellations"
If there is no order for new aircraft "Ryanair should change course before the end of this fiscal year and manage the airline over the next three years to maximise cash for distribution to shareholders"

[A319-100]

Share price down 7.5 %

[Nashers]

in the current economic climate, cost is everything. when things get better and customers disposable income goes back to what they use to be, im not sure people will still want the no frills. they may rather pay a bit extra and get a better service.

there will alwase be a market for no frills airlines as there are alwase going to be people who would not otherwise be able to afford to fly. however im not sure if it will be as big as it is currently once things get better. ryanair have realy made the most of the bad climate with its passangers. im not convicend they will be happy to stay loyal.

[Checkboard]

From the article quoted above:
Mr O'Leary took the opportunity to criticise "stupid tourist taxes" and high airport charges, saying that he planned to switch some of his winter capacity to lower cost countries such as Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy and Spain.
So Ryanair pilots will be in the European rental market (at their own cost) for winter? How fluid are their contracts?

[befree]

Ryanair is so vast and has such a large cash pile that any fall will take many years. The results out today mark a corner in the airlines history.

In the first half year (Jan-june) they took in less money even though they "sold" more seats. They have got to the point were growing reduces income. The logical move is to reduce growth and firm up the selling price per set as Easyjet have done. To do this FR need to change their order for 100+ more 737s. Boeing will not let FR do this as it is one of their biggest orders. FR is dangling a bigger future order but I cannot see FR switching to airbus so Boeing have a strong hand.

Next year FR will see higher fuel costs, have problems selling on aircraft and need to drop prices to fill even more planes. 2010 could be its last ever year of profit. A large part of FRs profits are in effect made by getting planes at a massive discount, trashing them for 5 years and then getting around the same price for them that they paid. That model is broke. They only sold 3 planes in the first half of 2009. They are also having to reduce the book value of the planes. With a need to sell 20-40 planes per year, the 2nd hand market is key to profits and cash flow.

I have not heard a comment yet about the oil price at which the become loss making with their lower income per seat.

[Dysag]

Dear ol' MoL is not so smart after all. He made it clear to everyone that he wanted to stick with an all-737 fleet. Having excluded a price competition with Airbus, he's now bleating that the monopoly supplier charges too much!

[F14]

Well done The Ryans. The fuel price was the key to the profits, after last years disaster with hedging policy looks like they are now learning from their mistakes.

Regarding airframe purchases. Looks like bluff, Boeing are in trouble, they need Ryanair to survive. I can't see them lose Ryanair as a customer. But maybe another player will enter the game. Could a smaller e-jet or c-jet be the answer? More modern aircraft could open up many shorter airfields, therefor putting pressure on existing airports to lower charges.

[Skipness One Echo]

Boeing are in trouble, they need Ryanair to survive.

Overly dramatic. You don't survive long by giving hundreds of aircraft away for sweeties....

[F14]

Be Free, good analysis. However at the end of the day, the FR machine is so lean if they can;t make money on a route nobody can. Every failure of a highcost airline just sends more passengers in FRs direction. Ryanair effectively bleed to death last.

There's still plenty of growth to be had in Europe.

[racedo]

could be its last ever year of profit. A large part of FRs profits are in effect made by getting planes at a massive discount, trashing them for 5 years and then getting around the same price for them that they paid. That model is broke. They only sold 3 planes in the first half of 2009. They are also having to reduce the book value of the planes. With a need to sell 20-40 planes per year, the 2nd hand market is key to profits and cash flow.

I have not heard a comment yet about the oil price at which the become loss making with their lower income per seat.Last year of profit ? Get real.

So hedging well below trend for 2010 and 2011 is what exactly ?

You ignore the obvious that average life of an aircraft is less than 3 years or 10 years less than the age of a Southwest aircraft who also run a 737 fleet.

Holding off on an order for 5 years to Boeing until 2015 will still see FR fleet younger than most comparable airlines.

Boeing knows a 200 aircraft order to 2018 is approx 5-6 months production at current rates, they want the order and know full well that it comes down to price.

Of course in 2003 when €-$ was .8 - $1 a $24 M 737 cost then over €30 Million where as now a €30 M 737 costs them €20M and as majority of earnings are in Euros then they really getting a huge benefit from dollar collapse.

Boeing will get their order eventually.

[bia botal]

Losses in Q3 and Q4 to give full year profit "at lower end of" €200M to €300M

Oh goody, Town hall meeting in march then eh guys.

[top jock]

Boeing are happy to do business with him but CFM will not sell their engines to him at the price he wants so no new deal struck yet. He was looking to confirm 100 aircraft bringing the total to 500 and another 100 options.

[BC2300]

Last year of profit. 'Befree' you are deluded :rolleyes:

[Tyke]

Ryanair will continue to thrive with its' present policy. It will attract customers with its' pricing and it will repel customers when it strands them abroad. Overall, it will attract more than it repels. Whist I wouldn't want to work for them, I have to admire the bottom line.

[sky9]

As I have previously highlighted, the profit at Ryanair is derived from sale and lease back of aircraft and the sale of aircraft that are still fairly new.

The company has 51 aircraft on lease yet looking through the IAA register

Irish Aviation Authority - Latest Published Register (http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=321&n=388) all Ryanair aircraft whether owned or leased are 737 8AS

Having been shafted by Ryanair before I cannot see Airbus getting involved in a bidding war with Boeing knowing full well that they are being used simply to bring the Boeing price down.

Ryanair has always been a leasing company that runs an airline. It has to turn aircraft round to make a profit.

[befree]

If this year FR makes around 200m euro profit on 67m pax then it works out the full year profit of 3 euro per pax. The results for the summer show them making about 10.6 euros per pax. In the winter they will lose around 3-5 euros per pax on average.

They have a fuel bill for this summer of 12.65 euros per pax when they got jet fuel at 613 euros/tonne in Q1 and 630e/t in Q2. For the summer of 2010 the 50% they hedged is at 663e/t and 741e/t for q1 & q2 (strangely they call that year fy 2011 as it ends march 2011). There is a very strong case that profit next year will only be 1-2 euros per pax and that will be their last year of profit.

Their inablity to sell aircraft at book value will mean they need to carry a too large a fleet in 2010 & 2011 or need to sell them at a significant loss.

Over the next few days the so called experts will do the maths and project profits for the next 3 years. Profitablity will be very dependant on the oilprice they model but the market for 2nd hand planes could be just as important. You cannot just put 500 million euors of aircraft on ebay and expect a good price.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

Ryanair will continue to thrive as long as there are monkey's willing to work for nothing.

Now with decent employers making people redundant, things must look even more rosey at the bottom of the airline industry.

[sitigeltfel]

it will repel customers when it strands them abroad. Overall, it will attract more than it repels.

I must have flown with them more than 150 times over the past five years and have never been left stranded by them. I have had three weather diverts and each time they had buses laid on to take us to our destination airport shortly after landing. On one occasion they called me four hours before my flight to say it had been cancelled due to a tech problem, and they re-booked me on the next mornings flight. Are the scare stories real, or have I just been lucky?

Anyway, nice to see someone is making money.

[racedo]

Over the next few days the so called experts will do the maths and project profits for the next 3 years. Profitablity will be very dependant on the oilprice they model but the market for 2nd hand planes could be just as important. You cannot just put 500 million euors of aircraft on ebay and expect a good price.

Its always fun rereading your old analysis from previous set of results and seeing how far from reality it was.

Market for 2nd hand aircraft is pretty much irrelevant if they decide not to place an order with Boeing and sweat the asset for 10 years. Average age of aircraft is less than 3 years.

Seemingly if Ryanair says something negative about the future you believe every word but if its positive regarding profit or passengers its questionable.

Recessions don't last for ever as is now been proven and for the oft repeated mantra that people will fly with other than Ryanair when things are better I wonder who is the other than Ryanair as a lot fewer about and it will get less.

[befree]

from todays report7.Capital commitments
At September 30, 2009 Ryanair had an operating fleet of 202 (2008: 168) Boeing 737-800 aircraft. It also had firm orders for an additional 110 Boeing 737-800’s. The delivery of these firm order aircraft will increase the fleet size (net of planned disposals) to 292 aircraft by March 31, 2012.

Doing the maths shows they need to find profitable use for 90 more aircraft and someone to buy 20. If they need to grow more slowly more than 20 will need to be sold. If they cannot find a market for the planes they then need to find something to do with an extra 110 planes and pay the staff to operate them, airports to park them and lease compaies to pay for some of them.

It will take years for things to finally go wrong but the aircraft on order will cost billions of Euros and need to pay their way. With a glut of old aircraft around new airlines will could start any upturn come unless there is a sharp rise in fuel costs. Either way ryanair is about to stall.

[Red Paddy]

Befree,

Swiss cheese logic I'm afraid. Full of holes.

Pay the staff to operate your "extra" 110 planes. Do you believe that FR currently has the staff to operate an extra 110 planes? One of the leanest airlines in the industry currently has the manpower to operate 110 planes on top of it's current fleet??? :ugh:

Is FR compelled by some unknown force of the universe to hire these people whether they need them or not??

As for your profit based on selling planes theory, well have you considered that FR currently expend their profits on expansion? They have the option to move their business model from expansion based to purely profit based. FR bought the aircraft at a reduced price in the first place. If they decide to keep them for their design life and keep them flying and generating revenue rather than selling them on after 3-5 years do you think they wont make money from them? What hope then is there for any airline buying aircraft at today's maket prices?

FR simply took advantage of a perculiarity in the market place when they found that second hand 737's were selling on the open market for more than they paid for theirs new and that by exercising their options with Boeing and replacing disposed of aircraft with a brand new one they could still make a profit.

A brilliant business decision and one FR was aware from the beginning would not always be the case.

[mickyman]

Befree

Whilst your analysis might seem logical from your own perspective,
you are forgetting one very important thing.
Ryanair management have consistently shown themselves to be
adept at steering their business model.
One line of your initial post with Ryanairs statement that you have failed to highlight is ' Ryanair will end its relationship with Boeing and confirm a series of order deferrals and cancellations' - is this not significant to your 'selling aircraft for profit' forecasts......???

MM

[befree]

You may not like what I say but it is based on the information released by Ryanair. The 110 planes on order are firm orders - Ryanair can only get out of this order if Boeing lets them.

Ryanair do not have the staff to operate the extra planes but they will be needed when the planes come. That could mean an extra 45% staffing cost. For just this summer the operating cost of Ryanair were 1.3 billion euros. The operating revenue was 1.766 billion euros. In the winter the income will be around 200 million euros less than revenue giving something like 200 million profit for 2009/10.

The extra planes must cost something like 2 billion euros. The extra operating cost around a billion euros a year (but note that the Depreciation and aircraft rental charges in the opex means the planes are charged for as an operating expense over time). The extra planes need to generatre an extra net billion pounds of income.

[mickyman]

befree

My point was that if Ryanair says in the statement that YOU
quoted - order deferrals and cancellations -that means to me that
they have a contract clause that enables them to do so.
As I stated before - you are not dealing with business novices
here - give them some credit (ha ha). Why would you want them
to fail?

MM

[Skipness One Echo]

Unless someone knows the clauses in the contract and can publically quote from them this is all random speculation and in danger of turning into a willy waving contest ( again ).

There are two vocal camps :

1) I love Ryanair as they make my local airport seem busy
2) I hate Ryanair for more reasons than I care to mention but mainly because of a bad experience that left me burned.

None of these two camps is party to what is going on in Dublin HQ so can we leave the egos out of it and stick to what's known? It will be interesting to see where all these new planes go but the truth is prices won't be heading up any time soon.

[mickyman]

Skipness - contracts between parties can be secret if both
parties want it - and who contributing on here would have
any idea as to the facts?

I dont think its unreasonable to question someone
about the statement THEY quote.The 'devil is in the
detail' as they say!

MM

[racedo]

None of these two camps is party to what is going on in Dublin HQ so can we leave the egos out of it and stick to what's known? It will be interesting to see where all these new planes go but the truth is prices won't be heading up any time soon.

True

Think the Euro - Dollar rate pretty much shows where the order will be as highlighted earlier in the thread as it has swung so much as to make buying in $$$ attractive when majority of revenues are in €€.

[befree]

the list price of a 737-800 is $72million for a basic plane. even if MOL got them at half price, the 110 planes are going to be about 3-4 billion euros depending on what exchange rates the deal was done.

I think it is a valid question to ask how MOL can possibly use the extra planes without dropping fares even more. Boeing are not just going to let a 3-4 billion contract to get dropped or delayed without a big refund. MOL was getting the planes so cheap due to the size of the order.

[racedo]

the list price of a 737-800 is $72million for a basic plane. even if MOL got them at half price, the 110 planes are going to be about 3-4 billion euros depending on what exchange rates the deal was done.

Apart from Govt nobody pays list price.

Lets see 110 planes at even a 50% discount is €24 M a plane and current price is not price agreed 3 years ago.

What does exchange rate have to do with Boeing ? It sells in Dollars.

Think rereading your old forecast posts on FR is good entertainment.

[Based]

Befree, I think the main point you seem to be missing from your H1 presentation analysis is that Ryanair aren't saying they are worried about the 110 737-800s they have on order - it's getting their hands on more of them at similar prices that's the issue!

[racedo]

Befree, I think the main point you seem to be missing from your H1 presentation analysis is that Ryanair aren't saying they are worried about the 110 737-800s they have on order - it's getting their hands on more of them at similar prices that's the issue!

Well made point.

[befree]

Befree, I think the main point you seem to be missing from your H1 presentation analysis is that Ryanair aren't saying they are worried about the 110 737-800s they have on order - it's getting their hands on more of them at similar prices that's the issue!

For an airline that will park up 20% of its fleet this winter getting more than 312 that it could end up with in March 2012 is not the problem. Boeing may have sold the existing planes below cost and is unlikely to repeat that. By the time 2012 comes it will be ramping up 787 production and will not want to spend money on giving FR planes for less than it cost to make them.

I think the problem for FR is being able to sell planes at a rate and price that matches what they are listed for on the accounts.

I think some shareholders will be worried about a few billion pounds of kit coming in without the profitable routes to use them on.

[jferreira20]

The website was translated to portuguese.

[eu01]

Lots of articles in Google news about Ryanair base at Bratislava. (None in English though, so far).
Last Monday, the English-language Slovak Spectator provided some details about the issue. It looks like the deal is not done and not even very close to.
Ryanair has confirmed that it plans to build a base in Bratislava with three aircraft and 20 new routes but that the plan will be completed only if the Bratislava Airport reduces airport fees by at least 70 percent, daily SME reported.

“70-percent is acceptable, however, 100-percent is ideal,” said Henrike Schmidt, Ryanair's marketing manager for Slovakia. Ryanair will not go further in negotiations below 70 percent, she added.

“If the airport accepts the maximum requirements of Ryanair, its revenue will not increase since Ryanair requires a drastic reduction of fees. Therefore we will consider the conditions carefully,” said Dana Madunická, spokeswoman of M.R. Štefánik Airport in Bratislava.

The Slovak Ministry of Transport, which holds a 48-percent stake in the airport, considers such conduct unfair.

“The airport deserves money for its services. The fees should at least cover the costs,” said Stanislav Jurikovič, spokesman of transport ministry.

[flyOU]

Hi, I read anywhere, FR will serve from STN new destinations, also to Croatia. Are there now any rumours, which city it could be? RJK,DBV or ZAG?

[davidjohnson6]

flyOU - would it be possible for you to provide weblinks to these sources ?

[flyOU]

it was here, one of the last replies at ryanair-6, before the thread was closed.

[wind check]

will ryanair go to BCN airport ??

[eu01]

Earlier this year Ryanair submitted a few offers to selected airports in Europe, precising the conditions it requires to establish its new bases there. By observing the results of the negotiations, we can already eliminate some of the potential candidates.

For example, Seville in Spain didn't met these conditions, offering only the discounts at restaurants and local services for FR pax. Carrier's answer: (it would have) "little or no commercial value for the company”. According to Michael Cawley, the discount card is a "poor substitute" for the formula presented by the Irish company to cut expenses in Seville. "No cards nor other similar article would offset the high costs that exist in the Seville airport compared with their counterparts from Italy or French or Portugal". Consequently, "I regret to inform you that your proposal does not cover us the opportunity to substantially increase our business at the airport in Seville or even establish a base of operations there." - writes Cawley in his letter to Ayuntamiento de Sevilla (the City Council).

Thus, for the time-being, Seville is out of question.

(based on Spanish-language news (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/11/07/andalucia_sevilla/1257620478.html)).

[MUFC_fan]

will ryanair go to BCN airport ??


No. They have a very large base at GRO and a smaller base at REU, both within 75 minutes of the city.

Unless BCN were to offer them free facilites for a base there, I very much doubt it! And that ain't going to happen is it?!:ok:

[jferreira20]

They want to fly to El Prat. I've read it somewhere.

[wind check]

:}:}:} Gerona and Reus are miles, miles away from Barcelona city. Ok it is Catalunya BUT it is not Barcelona. People going to Barcelona Capital are not very happy to spend 1h20 min more to drive on an expensive motorway or in a coach full of low class passengers. Also, adding 30 euros for a trip in coach to or out of barcelona is a killer for Ryanair. Hence, Vueling, Air Berlin, easyjet, Germanwings, Wizzair, Transavia are happy to get all those potential pax on their aircraft!

Have you seen Barcelona El Prat airport at the moment??? The old terminal 2 is totally empty!!!! NOBODY. Just 2 aircraft on the tarmac every hour. That would be a good slots for Ryanair, but yes, it is not as cheap as secondary airports in the middle of NOWHERE such as GRO and REU :)

Maybe easyjet might be able to expand at BCN then ? ;)

[davidjohnson6]

in a coach full of low class passengers

Ryanair are capable of taking the insults that get thrown at them. Leave the passengers alone.

[MUFC_fan]

Gerona and Reus are miles, miles away from Barcelona city. Ok it is Catalunya BUT it is not Barcelona. People going to Barcelona Capital are not very happy to spend 1h20 min more to drive on an expensive motorway or in a coach full of low class passengers. Also, adding 30 euros for a trip in coach to or out of barcelona is a killer for Ryanair. Hence, Vueling, Air Berlin, easyjet, Germanwings, Wizzair, Transavia are happy to get all those potential pax on their aircraft!


Ryanair's load factors seem to differ from your assumptions. I have been on 3 trips to Barcelona CITY with FR via GRO and all coach journeys were full to the rafters of passengers from all across Europe. Each trip I paid 2p return for flights plus between 16(2005) and 21 (late last year) euros per trip into the city, not your 'guess' of 30. I understand that passengers don't always pay 2p for a return flight with Ryanair but they make their choices whichever way they wish and Ryanair are happy to abide and take them to GRO!


Have you seen Barcelona El Prat airport at the moment??? The old terminal 2 is totally empty!!!! NOBODY. Just 2 aircraft on the tarmac every hour. That would be a good slots for Ryanair, but yes, it is not as cheap as secondary airports in the middle of NOWHERE such as GRO and REU


I guarantee BCN gets more than two movements an hour at T2A/B. Also, you need runway space as well as terminal for flights.


Maybe easyjet might be able to expand at BCN then ?


Probably. They already have a large operation, and to add to your comment on the U2 thread just now, it probably would be good for the airline to grow at BCN.

It would, however, be idiotic for the two airlines to expand massive at the airport which already is served very well across Europe - more so than most! I know the two CEOs are not the best people in all areas, but they ain't stupid!

wind check, go away, look for some facts supporting your theory and then come back and inspire us. Thanks.

[wind check]

I have also tried more than you the trip barcelona-GRO :yuk:, followed by the ugly low cost terminal at GRO :yuk:
Anyway, I am sure easyjet and/or vueling will expand at BCN, so...Bye bye Ryanair ;):D

NB: by the way, there are still lots of slots at BCN, the runways and taxiways are far from being busy.

[MUFC_fan]

Aged 36 yet acting like a little child. Fair play, you don't like Ryanair and prefer to fly to BCN - do that but why do you have to share that with us in the form of :bored::ok::confused::\:mad::uhoh::hmm::suspect::{:ooh::ouch :.

Ryanair are making fantastic money and I'm sure GRO is profitable less it wouldn't be one of it's flagship bases! In the summer it serves the holiday market, winter the skiing and between both the city link.

Their fares make it very attractive to low budget holiday makers who cannot afford/don't want to pay the high/er prices of easyJet, Vueling, BA, Iberia etc.

The 4.1m people that used the airport in the last twelve months, probably consisting of 80-85% Ryanair customers cannot be wrong!

[wind check]

Ryanair passengers are so stupid that they would buy a ryanair ticket 200% more expensive than easyjet or vueling or Iberia, and they will be proud of themselves as they will think they've done a good deal :}

Ryanair is struggling in spite of their millions passengers carried. Michael o Leary is unable to sell out his aircraft on the second hand market, and together with that, Boeing and Airbus lo mandan a la mierda :ok:

your boss made a good deal after Sept 11, but now it's a different story.

[Seat62K]

Oh dear, here we go again!

[davidjohnson6]

WindCheck - I am unable to discern whether you are simply a troll spoiling for a fight, or whether you are trying to make a point. If you are trying to make a particular point, you will receive a better response from others by taking a less hostile tone in your comments

[Tom the Tenor]

JFerreria says "They want to fly to El Prat." Whatever about Ryanair's intentions I sure would like to fly to El Prat - at least once a week.

Barcelona - a fab place.

[Seat62K]

On the question of El Prat vs. Girona/Reus, what Ryanair has in its favour is the absence of a metro link to El Prat. The airport bus from El Prat can be quite an ordeal; I can't imagine the BarcelonaBus alternative to be much (if any) worse.

The Renfe Cercanias (suburban) train service from El Prat is infrequent (two per hour in each direction), the station is some way from the terminal buildings, and it, too, can be very busy.

So, if I was considering travelling to Barcelona, the Girona/Reus option would not look as unattractive as it might at first glance.

[racedo]

Spent some time last week with some Barcelona friends who were pretty clear that they expect FR to start up a base at BCN in 2010 partially because Terminal is free and also because Airport authorities want big influx of passengers and feel FR will doit more than US.

[johnnychips]

Girona is a lovely airport, but the hassle of the buses and the inconvenient arriving point (Estacio Nord) would make me prefer El Prat every time. Airbuses and trains are available and taxis aren't too horrendously priced if shared.

[EI-BUD]

AENA are the airport operators so do AENA own all of the spanish airports the website states

Aena manages 47 airports and one heliport equipped with modern facilities and a complete range of commercial services


So if they manage the airports does this include attracting operators? Does it include setting the fees?

If not I would suggest that El Prat would want to attract Ryanair but not to all routes. I could see that El Prat would want to incentivise any routes that currently do not have an existing operator.

What would that leave for Girona? El Prat could bring big incentive to new routes or destinations that would be new for them.

Last year there was fever pitch on here saying that Barcelona was imminent!!!

We will have to wait and see...

[EI-BUD]

About Aena

http://www.pprune.org/csee/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1239959638291&ssbinary=true Aena provides airport and A.N. services with security, quality, efficiency and respect for the environment.

The Public Business Entity Aena, created under that established in Section 82 of the General State Budget Act 4/1990 of 1990, is governed by that laid out in Royal Decree 905/1991 of 14 June approving the Articles of the Entity.
As stated in Section 1 of its Articles, Aena will aim to “contribute towards the development of air transport in Spain and to guarantee safe, fluid, effective and economic air traffic, offering a service quality in line with customer and user demand, within the framework of the general transport policy of the Government”. Its objective, therefore, is to manage civil airports of general interest and the facilities and networks of air navigation assistance.
The Public Business Entity Aena has its own legal character independent to that of the State, fully legal, public and private capacity and its own equity.Likewise, it is listed in the Ministry of Transports and Infrastructures that, in line with the mandate established by the Government, will establish its directives for action, approve the annual plan of objectives, monitor its activity and carry out, without prejudice to other authorities, the control of its efficiency in accordance with the regulation sin force.


I just found this information on the aena website, if the government own all the airports (or the local districts), it seems strange the deals are being negotiated to attract airlines from one airport to another within Spain. Ryanair maintain that all spanish airport reduced fees to zero for the recession.

[Noxegon]

Reported today - boarding card reissue fee to go to €100!

Ryanair to hike non-printed boarding card fee to ?100 | The Post (http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ryanair-to-hike-nonprinted-boarding-card-fee-to-100-45536.html)

[davidjohnson6]

Noxegon - at least MOL is being upfront as to the purpose of the increase of the charge, namely a penalty to coerce people to checkin online rather than pretending it's a fair and reasonable cost

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Wind check - clearly a troll! Girona Airport middle of nowhere??? Think you'll find it in the middle of a field very close to Girona!! And as for it not looking too pretty, well thats a matter of opinion AND you're not supposed to live there anyhow so don't be so tight and buy a house :rolleyes:

I have always preferred the smaller airport where you can park your car and walk to the terminal within a minute or two and GRO certainly fits THAT bill. Of course "spotters" like wind check prefer to get the big airport once in a lifetime holiday up yer *rse experience and that's a perversion they are perfectly entitled to but lets face it, its not for the thinking man now is it? :confused:

Now as for getting to BCN let's not forget the TGV is on its way :ok:

[DP.]

"On the question of El Prat vs. Girona/Reus, what Ryanair has in its favour is the absence of a metro link to El Prat"

Yes - although construction of Line 9 will rectify that once its completed in a few years time.

[david.craig]

I still don't understand how it happened so quick, but Sunday Oct 25th i got on the 2pm bus from Estacio Nord and had cleared security in Girona and was sitting in departures by 3.15pm.

It's easy to throw distances around, but an hour and 15 minutes bus station to gate is hard to argue with, I can't imagine the BCN commute to the gate being much quicker.

Four busses departed that day at 2pm, all full. The Bus to Girona was 22E, at present the El Prat Aerobus is 4.95E each way. So we're only talking a 12E difference between the two. A few posts above have mentioned the cost of the Girona bus and disregarded the cost of the El Prat bus.

[riptack]

Aena does operate almost all commercial airports in Spain, (Ciudad Real being an exception) but Spain is split into 17 autonomous regions who I'm sure influence local airport politics. Catalunia has a particularly strong local gov.

[Honeybuzzard]

I have travelled 30+ times to BCN in the last decade, mainly on Easyjet. My record from aircraft door to the railway station bar is less than 7 minutes. The train cost 70 cents each way - buy a T-10 Metro ticket, a more preferable journey than from other "Barcelona" airports.

[eu01]

It's getting weird out there...Ryanair has today (November 10) announced that it will close its six routes from December 2 after Basel Airport refused to lower its airport charges to reflect the lower fares being paid by passengers in the current recession.

This move will result in the loss of 18 weekly Basel flights, 250,000 passengers per annum and up to 250 local jobs.

Ryanair had offered Basel an additional 13 weekly flights and 200,000 new passengers which would have created 200 new jobs if the airport reduced its high charges. Basel rejected this offer and Ryanair's routes to/from Alicante, Cagliari, London (Stansted), Marseille, Porto and Stockholm (Skavsta) will cease from December 2.

Passengers affected will be emailed directly by Ryanair and provided with a full refund.

Ryanair's Stephen McNamara said: "Ryanair continues to lower fares to encourage travel, but with passengers paying lower fares airports must lower their charges - particularly high cost airports like Basel, London (Stansted) and Dublin.

"Ryanair had offered new routes, traffic and growth to Basel Airport but since they prefer to preserve their high cost base than to grow, Ryanair will now close all its Basel routes resulting in the loss of 250,000 passengers p.a. and up to 250 jobs at Basel.

"Ryanair will continue to grow at low cost airports which work with us to deliver the low fares required to keep passengers flying during this recession. Ryanair apologises to passengers affected by these cancellations and will contact them in the coming weeks to provide them with a full refund. Make war, make peace, make trouble...

Btw. I apologize for predicting the future ...(note the date)

[davidjohnson6]

Impressive - it varies slightly from the usual press announcement template ! :}

[Rusland 17]

Ryanair's Stephen McNamara said: "Ryanair continues to lower fares to encourage travel, but with passengers paying lower fares airports must lower their charges - particularly high cost airports like Basel, London (Stansted) and Dublin.This makes no sense. Why should airports lower their charges simply because (Ryanair claims that) air fares are falling? Presumably the fixed costs that airports have are not falling too?

Basel airport should be congratulated for standing up to Ryanair's bullying tactics.

[IJM]

eu01 - I note the date of the "announcement" is tomorrow (10th November).
Is this definately happening?

I can imagine a lot of passengers booked on flights from 2nd December onwards would be concerned on reading this post, should they now go and make other arrangements?

[eu01]

It's a leak. But definitely, wait until tomorrow (unpublished = void).

[The Real Slim Shady]

Rusland

An airport relies on airlines flying aircraft to that airport to generate income from landing fees, parking fees.

If that airplane brings passengers they get extra revenue from sales of ancillary goods and services: car parking, rental of food outlets etc.

If you run an airport you have your marketing team go out and push the benefits of operating to your airport - that's why Routes exists.

If, in the middle of a recession, your major player asks you to cut your charges in exchange for increasing your pax numbers, where does bullying come in to it?

Surely one presents a business case and if agreement can't be reached you can either retain the status quo or withdraw.

Every airport operator in Europe wants to encourage airlines to operate services to / from there: there is no mileage in flogging the proverbial dead horse. If Basel won't play, redeploy the aircraft to where the airport operators take a more balanced view.

[PPRuNe Pop]

You will notice that a few posts (6) have been removed. All charged with politics which is not going to be tolerated, now or in the future.

I personally have not banned anyone this time but I can assure you that if anyone uses PPRuNe to abuse and such you will be gone.

AA&R Mods

[Zippy Monster]

Ah, good old Ryanair. You can't beat their press releases - always good for a laugh. It's like listening to Alex Ferguson after United have lost a game.

Three of their six routes from BSL compete with easyJet - Porto, Alicante and London (if you count their STN route competing against easyJet's usually twice-daily LGW.) Bear in mind also that BSL is an easyJet base and they are not going to take intrusion into their territory without a fight. Porto is a case in point - a route set up from Ryanair's new Porto base to compete directly with easyJet. Maybe Ryanair just couldn't compete with easyJet and it had nothing to do with airport charges? Does anyone know what their load factors or yields were on their routes from BSL? Ryanair would never admit that, of course. It's always the fault of the airport, the airport operator, the regulator, whichever government happens to have offended O'Leary by not letting him fly to their country for free this week, etc etc...

All we need now is for EZS to adorn their BSL-based aircraft with "BYE BYE RYANAIR" logos!

[The Real Slim Shady]

Bear in mind also that BSL is an easyJet base and they are not going to take intrusion into their territory without a fight.

Which is, of course, why EZ are closing their base at EMA.

EZ and FR have differing business models: if EZ can make it work at BSL it fits their business model. Compare EZ in Switzerland with FR's non existent presence there; it doesn't fit the model.

Horse's for courses.

[Zippy Monster]

I may be wrong here, but weren't EZY at EMA first (when it was Go)? The problem there was they allowed it to stagnate and never showed much interest. I was under the impression FR rolled into town after Go did, but I might be wrong. If I'm right, however, then it's not quite an equal comparison.

The difference between the two, obviously, is that when EZY closed EMA they effectively admitted it wasn't viable for them and couldn't work - a rather more dignified approach to Ryanair's system of copying and pasting old press releases berating whoever has refused to bow to their daft demands (see the Manchester Airport CEO's comments about FR effectively asking to fly there for free), and just changing a few words and names.

So not quite horses for courses.

[EI-BUD]

is that when EZY closed EMA they effectively admitted it wasn't viable for them and couldn't work

Zippy - Easyjet have signalled that the EMA base will certainly close, however, it is not definite that there will be no services flying in and out from other bases?

i think what is wrong for Easyjet at EMA is that the midlands airports of BHX & EMA have alot of capacity plus passgers can get to North London area airports and this all added together made the base challenging especially in these times.

??

[Zippy Monster]

Maybe - dunno. Nobody will know anything for sure until the 90-day consultation is over.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Zippy

FR's "daft" demands are what keep it profitable and able to operate to marginal regional airports.

The great pity of it all, at EMA particularly, is that FR and EZ don't necessarily compete on every route.

If EZ can't make EMA viable the "competition" can't be cited as a reason as FR compete on only 5 out of the 10 routes EZ operated.

[Charlie Roy]

Ryanair face competition on 5 of their 6 Basel routes.

LONDON - Easyjet, British Airways, Swiss
CAGLIARI - Easyjet
PORTO - Easyjet
ALICANTE - Easyjet
MARSEILLE - Twin Jet
STOCKHOLM - n/a

Their competitors are obviously delighted with the news that [1] Ryanair are leaving Basel, and the consequent [2] Ryanair will not be expanding at Basel.
I think Ryanair could have successfully launched routes (from bases and doing W's) to Pisa, Venice Treviso, Bologna, Bratislava, Bremen, Brussels Charleroi, Eindhoven, Edinburgh, Girona/Reus, Zadar - to name but a few. So in a way it's a shame to see them leave a airport where there is so much potential for expansion. But I'm sure many are saying good riddance. :8

[Noxegon]

Reported this morning - I like it!
Company aims to take the sting out of Ryanair charge - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 10, 2009 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1110/1224258481725.html)

[flyzen]

Ryanair to close six routes to Basel, including from London Stansted Airport"

The East Herts Herald - Ryanair to close six routes to Basel, including from London Stansted Airport (http://www.herald24.co.uk/content/herald/news/story.aspx?brand=HLHOnline&category=NewsHarlow&tBrand=HertsCambsOnline&tCategory=newslatestEHH&itemid=WEED09%20Nov%202009%2016%3A24%3A35%3A610)

[Zippy Monster]

Interestingly, STN-BSL is still available for booking... Is this a final decision, or is the airline just playing hardball?

[flyzen]

Is quite clear on ryanair website
Ryanair - News : Ryanair to Close Six Basel Routes (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=09&month=nov&story=rte-en-101109)

[apaul]

What is not clear on Ryanair's website is whether the customers it has let down in its usual cavalier fashion have any other option than to accept the refund. The ATUC site refers to either a refund within 7 days or

Re-routing to your final destination as soon as possible or, if you agree, at a later date. (If the airline flies you to another airport in your destination city then they must pay for the transfer to the airport you were booked for or to another close-by point of your choice)

[befree]

Giving less than 4 weeks notice of cutting flights will make a new group of people never book with Ryanair again. If effect when you book with Ryanair you have no way of knowing your will fly until a few weeks before. That makes planning a trip difficult as hotels & Cars could get booked up. Ryanair refunding you 30 euros is not much help if everything else has been booked.

I do hope some people who have planned christmas & new year trip sue.

All Airlines cut routes but they give people months notice and do it before the planes are booked up. Most also try to help those messed around by finding alterative flights. With ryanair its just your money back. The fact you will not need the carparking at Stansted is not their worry.

Fly with any other airline if possible.

[h&s]

If some people still haven't understand, I have to repeat again what I said many time: Ryanair whole business model is based on the economic exploitation of the weakest: airports (secondary, or even "main" during crisis) and cabin crew (by far the biggest part of salary cost).

There is absolutely nothing genious in that, and Ryanair is definitely again the low brain airline, which does not mean they are not making money.

It also confirms what I already said about the low brain airline, being brutal is the only think these guys are good at - look at how they are currently negociating with Boeing...

I am absolutely certain that Ryanair is not even able to make money in BSL not because of high airport charges, but as always because of their own rubbishes choices: choice of destinations, strategies, schedule, brand, revenue management etc. As always, they did silly job, and because of that just asked the airport to fix their problems, Ryanair usual easy way to make business.

Whereas as I said a long time ago, many airports are more and more annoyed by Ryanair "negociation". So after FUE, MAN, BLK, VLC, SNN (I am sure I forgot many), here is BSL, without spealing about tense discusions with DUB, CIA, CRL etc

Bye bye the low brain airline in BSL :ok::ok::ok:

[Centrefire]

"Reported this morning - I like it!
Company aims to take the sting out of Ryanair charge - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 10, 2009 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1110/1224258481725.html)"

Ryanair will love this. They do like people with boarding cards.

If the incompetent fools cannot print their own boarding cards at home then they will now have another chance to do so.

Why would anyone not print out a boarding card knowing that it will cost them money. After this they usually go on to berate FR about the high cost of their failure to print.

[wheelbarrow]

I believe Cityjet will launch rescue fares to Ryanair passengers for 30 euro oneway to Amsterdam or London.
Europes ERA favourite airline comes to the rescue of Ryanair (becoming) the worlds unfavourable airline.

Ha Ha

[Noxegon]

Why would anyone not print out a boarding card knowing that it will cost them money. After this they usually go on to berate FR about the high cost of their failure to print.

Any one of a myriad of reasons.

Broadband down and lack of printer ink being two obvious ones. And before you say don't leave it to the last minute, get real for a minute - it happens. Also, if you're off on a two week trip then you might not be able to do the return boarding pass until the last minute anyway unless you want to have to find an internet cafe in the middle of your holidays.

Personally I still don't get why you need to check in anyway. You've bought the damn flight after all; why can't you just enter all required passport details at that time and print your boarding pass on the spot?

[befree]

Ryanair are trying very hard to take an excessive fee from the people it should be trying to keep happy. In the past it was a small airline and still had lots of other pax who would replace those who were upset. Now keeping them is important.

[mickyman]

befree

It begs the question.....why are they doing it then?

Alienating your passengers would seem ,as you hint, counter
productive.

MM

[IJM]

I wonder what effect on consumer confidence this has for Ryanair - ie. cancelling routes to Basel with just over 3 weeks notice, and not long before Xmas / New Year. A lot of people's travel plans having to be reviewed (and new flights with different airlines possibly having to be purchased, maybe at higher prices?). I can imagine a lot of people cheesed off.

The image of an airline regularly "falling out" with airports (eg. Manchester) must be in some consumers mind?

At what stage was the original contract between Basle Airport & Ryanair - was it up for renewal, or was it in "mid-term"?

Centrefire said:
If the incompetent fools cannot print their own boarding cards at home then they will now have another chance to do so.

Why would anyone not print out a boarding card knowing that it will cost them money. After this they usually go on to berate FR about the high cost of their failure to print.

Although many passengers may have workplaces, fully operational computers / printers at home, or internet cafes to print off boarding cards, not all will do so - for example if you are on holiday in a smaller community without these facilities, and have to book a flight back at short notice. People's plans do have to change unexpectedly sometimes. I wouldn't class them as "incompetent fools".

Ryanair are always complaining about "rip-off" airport taxes / tourist taxes etc, but 100 Euros (currently 40) to print a boarding pass at an airport? Who's the "rip-off merchant" there?

[davidjohnson6]

With reference to flyzen's post
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/370654-easyjet-4-a-24.html#post5308758

Assuming flyzen is correct (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), could I suggest pausing the discussion with respect to Ryanair at Basel until Wed lunchtime ? There is the possibility that Ryanair somehow had advance notice that EasyJet would announce plans at Basel on Wednesday and act accordingly on Tuesday to gain at least some sort of publicity.

[OltonPete]

BHX, LPL, PIK EDI & BRS to name a few all not bookable from 26 or 27th
March but Gatwick is still bookable.

I assume will change to UK based aircraft in some cases if not all instances?

Pete

[Zippy Monster]

There is the possibility that Ryanair somehow had advance notice that EasyJet would announce plans at Basel on Wednesday and act accordingly on Tuesday to gain at least some sort of publicity.

If you mean publicity with respect to still operating routes from BSL in competition, then why would they make clear their intention to withdraw their services from there? Would they really announce to the world that they are withdrawing, denouncing it as a 'high cost airport', and annoy all their customers in the process etc. if they still had an agreement with BSL that some services would operate, and it was merely a publicity stunt? Strange thing to do - say "sorry, we're leaving" and then turn round and say "actually we're back again". It wouldn't encourage me to book with them.

From a conversation I had today at the airport, it seems that those in the know at Basel ATC also are under the impression that Ryanair are leaving.

[GayFriendly]

It wouldn't encourage me to book with them


I agree - FR starts, finishes, chops and changes routes and schedules seemingly as often as I change my pants

PS i'm a clean boy and theres nothing lo-co about my underwear..... :)

[racedo]

Funny that FR kills 6 routes gets abuse from usual suspects who never fly with them, BA cancels routes and everything is silent.

[Zippy Monster]

Funny that FR kills 6 routes gets abuse from usual suspects who never fly with them

Er, I do when I have no choice. And although it's been cheap and on time, it's never been a particularly pleasant experience. Not quite sure what you mean by "abuse" anyway.

[pwalhx]

racedo did you not read the Manchester thread when BA canned New York??? Or the many comments regarding their abandonment of the regions.

[Centrefire]

Er, I do when I have no choice. And although it's been cheap and on time, it's never been a particularly pleasant experience. Not quite sure what you mean by "abuse" anyway.

Out of interest, what was so unpleasant?

[Seat62K]

I'd like to know, too!

[jb5000]

What was unpleasant about a Ryanair flight?

You are... joking.. aren't you?!

No idea where I could possibly begin...

- Contempt for passengers by charging at every opportunity.
- Rubbish food and drink on board.
- Horrific interior colouring, combined with many 'in your face' adverts.
- THAT tune that gets played if you arrive on time.
- PA after PA after PA after PA...............................

I'd rather take an airline that isn't causing the destruction of conditions for every pilot in Europe. A ball of lead couldn't beat Ryanair in a race to the bottom.

[AndyH52]

I'd be intrigued to know how Ryanair can influence another airline's HR department to such destructive effect? If it's just because they implemented conditions that others had probably only dared to dream about why should RYR be blamed if those others then try and follow suit? what makes you think that the airline industry should be insulated from changes that the vast majority of commerce and industry (apart it would seem from the banking sector) have been implementing for years?

As for the unpleasant aspects of flying with Ryanair, you're not forced to pay for anything you don't want on board, the food and drinks are as good if not better than that sold -or given away - on competing airlines (including BA's god-awful sandwiches), Ryanair aren't the first and won't be the last carrier to have questionable taste in internal decour and so what if there are adverts in the cabin - read the inflight magazine instead. The PA announcements I will, however, grant you can be an irritant...

[horatio_b]

The only particularly annoying thing for me about Ryanair
is hearing the trumpet call announcing "another on time arrival from Ryanair" after touching down in Manchester.

By the time everybody is off the aircraft, the buses have turned up and
the tour of the airport has been completed it is almost invariably late by the time you reach the arrivals hall.

[Tom the Tenor]

There are too many snobs on here going on about Ryanair and if some are really inclined to go off and want to pay huge airfares with what is left of the European legacy airlines that is just fine but if anyone wants to know a bit more about uncomfortable cabins and the like just go take a flight on a FCA/TOM A320. Much to my chagrin I am fairly short at 5 ft, 6 ins in height and having to endure such a tight space in the back of an A320 for only two hours a few weeks back is something that I would not wish on anyone, even Ducksie! The space on a FR 737 is almost like business class in comparison.

[Zippy Monster]

To answer the questions put to me above, I would say that jb has hit the nail pretty much on the head. To the poster above, there's nothing snobbish about not liking it - obviously if you pay a cheap fare then you don't expect first class service and sometimes you just have to fly as cheaply as possible. It doesn't mean you have to enjoy it. For me:

- Being forced to pay an extra £5 for the privelige of printing my own boarding card at home. (Why isn't this just included in the fare if it's unavoidable? And don't give me any nonsense about 'promotional fares'. They could just call it a £5 discount when it's on promotion.) Rip-off.

- Being forced to pay a credit card booking fee per passenger - surely one of their greatest rip-offs. My bank doesn't do Visa Electron cards. For most, it's not a discretionary item - the only way you can avoid the charge is by not booking. Which, in most cases, is the option I take on principle.

- They claim they want people to take hand luggage only but then impose a weight limit, so if you go slightly over you have to pay (again) to put it into the hold. Rip-off. Easyjet don't do this unless it is clearly too big - there is no defined weight limit.

- The boarding process, which the last couple of times flying out from Stansted, involved them calling boarding and having people queueing in the tunnel down to the ramp before the aircraft had even pulled on to stand, never mind disembarked. And the priority/non-priority system which people clearly don't understand. The whole process becomes a shambles. (Although Easy's SB/SA/A/B system isn't much better, I'll grant that.)

- The worst bit - the incessant PAs during flight. I just want to be left alone - I do not want individual PAs selling hot food, cold food, drinks, duty free, train tickets, scratchcards, the on-board mobile phone system, more food, more drink, more duty free, coach transfers, more food and more drink. Flying on easyJet is like sitting in a library in comparison. What's more, they make the PAs and then come around and ask you individually "would you like anything". Why even bother with the PA?

- As other people have said, THAT fanfare after landing. Especially when the plane touches down on the scheduled arrival time but then arrives at the gate (or remote stand, more likely) 5 minutes later. That, to me, is not an on-time arrival and it makes it even worse that they boast about it.

- The way they proclaim themselves the "World's favourite airline" when their network covers nowhere further than eastern Europe and a bit of north Africa. And I'm sorry, but simply losing the fewest bags and arriving on time does not make you "number 1 for customer service". Ably sorting things out when it goes wrong is what makes you number 1 - you can't claim superiority on the basis of doing things which should be a given. And ably sorting things out when it goes wrong is something Ryanair seem to almost pride themselves in not giving a crap about.

Many passengers wouldn't be bothered by this experience - they get you there cheaply and on time. I personally don't like it - what's wrong with that?

For what it's worth, I just booked a flight from London to my home base in Europe for 56 quid. I suppose that's not particularly unreasonable really, I expect it'll get me there on time and safely and compared to some other airlines' fares it's very cheap. Oh yeah, and it's on that 'high fares airline' BA from Heathrow.

[frfly]

Thats fine if you dont like it, totally your choice.

However, theres 67 million passengers out there who feel differently to you.

Let's just hope you manage to get on that BA flight and it's not canx due to a strike.

[wind check]

To answer the questions put to me above, I would say that jb has hit the nail pretty much on the head. To the poster above, there's nothing snobbish about not liking it - obviously if you pay a cheap fare then you don't expect first class service and sometimes you just have to fly as cheaply as possible. It doesn't mean you have to enjoy it. For me:

- Being forced to pay an extra £5 for the privelige of printing my own boarding card at home. (Why isn't this just included in the fare if it's unavoidable? And don't give me any nonsense about 'promotional fares'. They could just call it a £5 discount when it's on promotion.) Rip-off.

- Being forced to pay a credit card booking fee per passenger - surely one of their greatest rip-offs. My bank doesn't do Visa Electron cards. For most, it's not a discretionary item - the only way you can avoid the charge is by not booking. Which, in most cases, is the option I take on principle.

- They claim they want people to take hand luggage only but then impose a weight limit, so if you go slightly over you have to pay (again) to put it into the hold. Rip-off. Easyjet don't do this unless it is clearly too big - there is no defined weight limit.

- The boarding process, which the last couple of times flying out from Stansted, involved them calling boarding and having people queueing in the tunnel down to the ramp before the aircraft had even pulled on to stand, never mind disembarked. And the priority/non-priority system which people clearly don't understand. The whole process becomes a shambles. (Although Easy's SB/SA/A/B system isn't much better, I'll grant that.)

- The worst bit - the incessant PAs during flight. I just want to be left alone - I do not want individual PAs selling hot food, cold food, drinks, duty free, train tickets, scratchcards, the on-board mobile phone system, more food, more drink, more duty free, coach transfers, more food and more drink. Flying on easyJet is like sitting in a library in comparison. What's more, they make the PAs and then come around and ask you individually "would you like anything". Why even bother with the PA?

- As other people have said, THAT fanfare after landing. Especially when the plane touches down on the scheduled arrival time but then arrives at the gate (or remote stand, more likely) 5 minutes later. That, to me, is not an on-time arrival and it makes it even worse that they boast about it.

- The way they proclaim themselves the "World's favourite airline" when their network covers nowhere further than eastern Europe and a bit of north Africa. And I'm sorry, but simply losing the fewest bags and arriving on time does not make you "number 1 for customer service". Ably sorting things out when it goes wrong is what makes you number 1 - you can't claim superiority on the basis of doing things which should be a given. And ably sorting things out when it goes wrong is something Ryanair seem to almost pride themselves in not giving a crap about.

Many passengers wouldn't be bothered by this experience - they get you there cheaply and on time. I personally don't like it - what's wrong with that?

For what it's worth, I just booked a flight from London to my home base in Europe for 56 quid. I suppose that's not particularly unreasonable really, I expect it'll get me there on time and safely and compared to some other airlines' fares it's very cheap. Oh yeah, and it's on that 'high fares airline' BA from Heathrow.


VEEEEEERY true, VEEEEEEERY true indeed!!!
BTW, is it allowed to force people to pay a fee when they use a banking card (debit or credit) although there is NO other option ?? Does it make sense a Brussells ??

Is it allowed to charge 5 GBPs for printing off a boarding card at home to avoid a 100 GBPs fine at the airport.

[mickyman]

A lot of posters on here seem to be very agitated by various
Ryanair 'idiosyncrasys' - perhaps the pressure of their daily lives
has led to some being....unreasonable......irritable.......overzealous
.....self-important......?
Perhaps they should just 'chill' like the 60 million+ other Europeans
travelling this way every year.
If you want an 'individual' experience you are quite welcome to fly
with the carrier of your choice.You have always had that choice so
use it.

MM

[harbour cotter]

zippy,

Thanks for sharing your views, and good for you that you got a cheap flight on the airline of your choice, but BA aint for me.

I have had some horrendous flights with BA (including business class) with poor customer service from both flight crew and ground staff. I could bore you with the stories. Additionally, within Europe Ryanair provide a much better choice of destinations. Long Haul BA are not an option as I have a 200 mile unpleasant drive first, with usually a cost of a hotel thrown in. And again, my personal experiences with ba longhaul are grim. So now I interline at AMS or use Locos to change to longhaul from Europe, this has the additional advantage of cutting the air tax, although you have to check in again. Doesnt bother me, I can sit in the lounge with all the money saved.

Ryanair are not by far my favourite airline, nor even my Loco of choice (easyjet I find are better). But they do the job, get me where I want to go at low cost, on time and without hassle and without the need for disgusting airline food. Indeed everything which BA isnt. Yes some elements of ryanair are annoying, but thats it, certainly more positive than negative. I read the t and c's and add all the 'extras' so that I am fully aware of the cost of the flight. Yes it would be better to show a 'an inclusive fare', but I went to school and I can at least manage some basic arithmetic. I never used to bother with on-line check in but since Ryanair has forced me to, I now dont have to bother queing at check in and I can arrive at the airport much later than I used to. This in itself is a benefit.

You prefer BA, I dont have a problem with that. You even like their food. Cant you just accept that many people have a choice and if Ryanair is not to your liking fine, simply choose another airline if you can, but obviously it doesnt really bother millions of pax like me.

[intortola]

Was in UK for approx 5 weeks this summer and did quite a few flights in and out of London to Europe, this was with both legacy carriers and loco's. Usually travel in a premium (J or F) cabin for long haul (have stopped using BA long haul due to inconsistencies in the premium product)and so was dreading the flights we had booked with Ryanair, however, i have to say i was pleasantly suprised. Flights were on time, cabin crew were friendly, boarding was orderly, sandwich and beverage purchased on board was fine. The only problem was the complete shambles to check in at STN, which was nothing less than a scrum. Apart from a free snack the service on the flights we did with BA, LH and AF was not a great deal different. I managed to read my book and tuned out the announcements many complain of,I will be back in UK for a month over Christmas and we plan some trips to Europe, i would certainly consider using Ryanair again based on comparable fares, schedules etc. Maybe i was lucky and my next experience will be completely different but my first experience of Ryanair certainly beat my expectations.

[Rusland 17]

But it's the "scrum" at check-in, not to mention the way the low-cost passengers are herded like cattle at the gate and the mad rush for the "best" seats, that discourages many people from flying with the likes of Ryanair. Why should flying be such an ordeal?

There's also the (remote) possibility that if I were to forget or lose my boarding pass then I would be charged £100 for a new one, and that if a Ryanair flight were cancelled I would be left to fend for myself hundreds of miles from home.

I would honestly rather pay £150 to fly with a legacy airline than fly for free on Ryanair - and I frequently do.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Rusland

You would only be charged if you lose it before you get to security: once you are airside we take a much more relaxed view on things and do understand that problems arise for certain people, notably the elderly.

Ryanair is not the monster some people think: very often you aren't dealing, notably on the ground, with FR staff, but wth a handling agent who also handles several other airlines.

I had a situation a few days ago where a lady had managed to get through security and the gate on to the aircraft with her "return" boarding card: she had, in error, printed the return section twice.

My instruction to the dispatcher was simple: check her reservation at the gate, if she has a valid outbound booking give her a boarding card and we can go. The handling agent though, insisted she went back to the ticket desk and got another boarding card and came all the way back through security etc to the gate.

The solution was for me to insist that she was accompanied throughout by one of the handling staff and we waited until she returned even though it delayed the flight.

Ryanair.................the human side of customer service. Just because we carry 60+ million passengers does not mean we forget that each one of those passengers is a person.

[Zippy Monster]

However, theres 67 million passengers out there who feel differently to you.You miss - or avoid - the point of my post. How do you know a sizeable chunk of these 67 million passengers don't feel exactly the same as me? (i.e. flying with them simply because it's convenient and (sometimes) cheap, while not particularly enjoying the 'experience'). As I have demonstrated through my own thoughts, not every passenger who flies with them enjoys it.

Let's just hope you manage to get on that BA flight and it's not canx due to a strike.At least if the flight with BA is cancelled, I can expect to be put on the next one free of charge, put up in a hotel, put on a flight to the next closest destination, provided with food and drink, etc etc... Having Ryanair say "here's your 30 quid back" wouldn't really cover the expense and the inconvenience I would then have.

Perhaps they should just 'chill' like the 60 million+ other Europeans travelling this way every year.How does expressing a few opinions on the quality of a service convey a sense of agitation?! Great argument. I'm perfectly chilled thanks - just waiting for my standby to end so I can have a nice glass of wine. As for 'individual experience' - I don't ask for that. I fly easyJet happily many, many times a year. I find the on-board atmosphere and ambience far preferable to that of Ryanair.

Cant you just accept that many people have a choice and if Ryanair is not to your liking fine, simply choose another airline if you can, but obviously it doesnt really bother millions of pax like me.Yes I can absolutely accept that. Where in my post did I say I couldn't? With the utmost gentlemanly respect, I couldn't give a shining sh*te who you prefer to fly with. You, as others have, seem to have inferred from my post that I think that "All People Who Like Ryanair Are Wrong". Nothing could be further from the truth. See, I even said it myself in my previous post...

]Many passengers wouldn't be bothered by this experience - they get you there cheaply and on time. I personally don't like it - what's wrong with that?

You're trying to argue against an argument that isn't there!

If the fares are comparable, I'll choose the legacy carrier any day. In this case, £56 for BA against £45 or whatever it was on Ryanair leaves no contest. If the legacy is miles more expensive, then of course I'll choose Ryanair. Hopefully this might clear things up a bit for those who, for some reason, take the expression of any negative opinion about Ryanair personally.

EDIT to add... Slim... agreed about the handling agent thing. But if the handling agent isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing, and in the process giving the airline a bad name, then it's up to the airline to sort it out with the agent (as you clearly did in the case you mentioned). People think they are flying with Ryanair - they don't stand there trying to work out which company in the chain has caused a particular part of the disruption or bother.

[frfly]

As I said this is totally your choice and opinion and that is fair. Everyone has the opportunity to express their opinions and as an industry I think we should welcome it.

However, I would like to just put forward another perspective, to give a balanced experience.

The majority of our passengers like our product, not because they enjoy flying like the "good old days of aviation", because we offer real value for money. We get you from A to B, with your bag and on time. Yes we might ask a lot of you, ie to bring your own boarding pass, pack lightly, help us at the gate by being their promptly and waiting 10 mins in a queue to help us speed up our turnarounds, but this is simply a case of educating the travelling public on a new way of aviation travel. Making the product more efficient and cost effective.

Things do go wrong, but the misconception you get nothing is unbelieveable. All passengers have the right to care, which is published under EU law. All we say at Ryanair is, you have the right to organise this yourself and claim it back from us. Handling Agents across Europe are made aware of this and yes I agree sometimes handling agents do not act on the airlines best interests and it is them who cause a bad public image.

I meet passengers everyday who are shocked by the product we offer and comment that they will continue to use our service because it is so good. Only the small minority do make a fuss and comment at how they dislike it. However, as a nation, the UK likes to moan more than congratulate, so these are the people that kick up a storm in the media when something goes wrong.

Now let's not turn this into a Ryanair against the world set of arguments. I appreciate what you are saying, but I would like to give you a balanced opinion of both sides.

Lets be honest - we dont force the 67 million passengers on board our aircraft, they do it of their own free will when they click that box saying the agree to our terms and conditions.

[LGS6753]

Mods,

Can we have two threads about Ryanair - one that continually rehearses all the old arguments about cost v service, and the other that concentrates on the kind of news and comment that feature on other airline threads on this forum.

Just a thought.

Thanks

[mickyman]

Perhaps they should just 'chill' like the 60 million+ other Europeans travelling this way every year.

'How does expressing a few opinions on the quality of a service convey a sense of agitation?!'

Perhaps your 'legacy' mentality causes you to be irritated when things are not what you expect.

You are a minority - sorry!

MM

[Zippy Monster]

Mickeyman - it's pointless trying to have a debate with you, you constantly read things which are not there. When have I ever said things are not what I expect?! 'Legacy mentality' - haha, you do make me laugh.

'Legacy mentality' in that I'm an F/O with another European LCC? I think I know full well what to expect, thanks :) Here endeth my contribution to the thread.

[LGS6753]

ASFKAP -

Simple answer - Ryanair will lose money on your flight. But the other people on that aircraft will be less cautious than you, so will make a contribution. Anyone booking at the last minute will subsidize you.

[mickyman]

Zippy monster:

'When have I ever said things are not what I expect?!'

'- Being forced to pay an extra £5 for the privelige of printing my own boarding card at home. (Why isn't this just included in the fare if it's unavoidable? And don't give me any nonsense about 'promotional fares'. They could just call it a £5 discount when it's on promotion.) Rip-off.

- Being forced to pay a credit card booking fee per passenger - surely one of their greatest rip-offs. My bank doesn't do Visa Electron cards. For most, it's not a discretionary item - the only way you can avoid the charge is by not booking. Which, in most cases, is the option I take on principle.

- They claim they want people to take hand luggage only but then impose a weight limit, so if you go slightly over you have to pay (again) to put it into the hold. Rip-off. Easyjet don't do this unless it is clearly too big - there is no defined weight limit.

- The boarding process, which the last couple of times flying out from Stansted, involved them calling boarding and having people queueing in the tunnel down to the ramp before the aircraft had even pulled on to stand, never mind disembarked. And the priority/non-priority system which people clearly don't understand. The whole process becomes a shambles. (Although Easy's SB/SA/A/B system isn't much better, I'll grant that.)

- The worst bit - the incessant PAs during flight. I just want to be left alone - I do not want individual PAs selling hot food, cold food, drinks, duty free, train tickets, scratchcards, the on-board mobile phone system, more food, more drink, more duty free, coach transfers, more food and more drink. Flying on easyJet is like sitting in a library in comparison. What's more, they make the PAs and then come around and ask you individually "would you like anything". Why even bother with the PA?

- As other people have said, THAT fanfare after landing. Especially when the plane touches down on the scheduled arrival time but then arrives at the gate (or remote stand, more likely) 5 minutes later. That, to me, is not an on-time arrival and it makes it even worse that they boast about it.

- The way they proclaim themselves the "World's favourite airline" when their network covers nowhere further than eastern Europe and a bit of north Africa. And I'm sorry, but simply losing the fewest bags and arriving on time does not make you "number 1 for customer service". Ably sorting things out when it goes wrong is what makes you number 1 - you can't claim superiority on the basis of doing things which should be a given. And ably sorting things out when it goes wrong is something Ryanair seem to almost pride themselves in not giving a crap about.'

Does that cover it?

Anyway, Im glad I made you laugh!!

MM

[Zippy Monster]

I know I said my contribution had ended, but I couldn't help coming back to this...

Mickyman - thanks for reproducing my post once more and helping to reinforce my thoughts about Ryanair.

I'll ask you once more, since you seem unwilling to read and understand my posts - when did I ever say "When have I ever said things are not what I expect?!" (Hint - I've highlighted the key word in that sentence for you.)

It's Ryanair. Of course I expect things to be like that. And of course I'll still fly with them. It doesn't mean it's a nice experience. And I'm still feeling quite chilled about it, before you ask...

How much more simply does it have to be spelled out? I'm running out of vocabulary.

[Hawk]

Some of you need to start using the "Ignore" tab and some need to understand that if

PPRuNe POP HAS TO COME IN HERE ONE MORE TIME THERE WILL BE SOME PERMANENT GROUNDINGS.

Thank you.

[Seat62K]

intortola,

After more than one hundred sectors with Ryanair in roughly three and a half years, I feel able to comment on most aspects of the "Ryanair experience" and would say that what you report about your flight on Ryanair is par for the course.

I, too, see not much difference between flying Ryanair and shorthaul on legacy carriers. Yet when I say this, some people think I must be mad!

I find many of the negative comments about Ryanair difficult to fathom.

And before someone says that I may not have much to compare Ryanair with, I'd like to add that the last sector I flew was in Club World (in seat 62K!) so I know a thing or two about a much more luxurious style of travel.

It's back to Ryanair again this week and I have no problem with that.

[intortola]

Thanks 62K, good to know. As i stated if Ryanair fit into my travel plans i will have no problem with using them again.Also, i just compare the total cost, the schedule and arrival/departure airport. Why get upset at each individual charge, we know thats the way it is so either accept it or go straight to someone elses website to book a flight.

[pkg.kit]

Luebeck (Germany), Nov 13, Turbulence from the wake of a landing Ryanair jet blew roof-tiles off a house near Luebeck airport, an airport spokeswoman said Friday.
Yahoo News | Germany | Lubeck | Jetliner blows roof-tiles off house in Germany (http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20091113/884/twl-jetliner-blows-roof-tiles-off-house.html)

Anyone know more to the story? I was wondering how close the a/c could be to make such a damage to the roof?

[mickyman]

Intortola & Seat62K

I concur (through personal experience) with your sentiments 100%

MM

[h&s]

I'm assuming they'll lose money on me if I turn up for the flight (based on the assumption that it costs RYR more than €5 to fly me to BHX), but what about if I don't turn up, is that €5 profit for RYR.....?

yes
If you go, they'll have to pay the full taxes anyway so it's a loss - but they hope to be profitable anyway on the PAX number subsidies (depend on routes but maybe your destination airport is giving c10€ to Ryanair for you, so your ow taxes almost refund, still the DOC to pay anyway ;-) and last minutes booking (even if on some routes, even last minutes bookings generate very few money)
If you are no show, you can't get a refund, so it's a profit for ryanair

[h&s]

Funny that FR kills 6 routes gets abuse from usual suspects who never fly with them, BA cancels routes and everything is silent.


Racedo, don't forget the fanfare Ryanair made when they opened BSL routes. I still remember the "bye bye easyJet high fares" or that they hope to open a base very quickly with 2 or 3 aircraft!!!

And don't forget that as always they are limitating their success/loose to the only airports subsidies/cost factor. An airline should not be that dependant of subsidies. easyJet looks succesful in BSL as they just announced a new aircraft, so it looks to me Ryanair failure is totally due to their own incapacity to generate enough money to break even (poor schedule, poor destinations choice, poor revenue management etc) and absolutely not the airport fault.

Contrary to what happens for a lot of smaller airports, BSL is not dependant of Ryanair, so if with similars cost base, Ryanair is not able to make money, bye bye Ryanair, it's as easy as that. Ryanair success is based on the dominant position vs small airports, and I am sure you know that very well.

A combinaison of too big capacity and airports more and more bored by Ryanair attitud can be dramatic for them. Hopefully for them, easyJet is quite inofensive on the network developement side.

[32threshold]

This has probably been covered somewhere but I can't find it, can someone please tell me who the hell Dudley is, and what's so special about his door?! It makes me chuckle every time I do a Ryan Air, cheers...!

[AndyH52]

I always believed that a large proportion of e-tickets sold by the world's airlines were non-changeable and non-refundable, that's why they are so cheap. Why single out Ryanair for a practice that many carriers and indeed tour operators follow?

[Noxegon]

I found myself at TFS yesterday afternoon, looking to get to DUB. I asked the nice lady at the Ryanair desk about buying a ticket for the flight, and was quoted a shade under four hundred euro.

Monarch to Luton was a quarter of the price. As such I ended up going to Luton instead and hopping on the first flight of the morning from there - total cost, including accommodation, just over half that of the direct flight.

To the point of this story, then - it seems to me that Ryanair should look at selling last minute tickets at sensible prices. At the time I was quoted it was no more than an hour before the flight, at which point the chances of the seat being bought by someone else must surely be negligible. I don't run an airline, but for me I'd rather take some cash rather than no cash for a seat that is otherwise going to be empty rather.

I was, incidentally, traveling with hand luggage only.

[Akrapovic]

it seems to me that Ryanair should look at selling last minute tickets at sensible prices

If they did that, they'd be out of business pretty sharpish!

[Noxegon]

Perhaps I should have been clearer. Last minute sales from ticket desks at the airport could be made at sensible prices. I'm not talking €5 fares here, I'd have paid €100 to get on that flight - which is money that Ryanair does not now have. It's the equivalent of lastminute.com, just in the airport. Thomson and Monarch both seem to think it's a good idea....

[Centre cities]

Last minute somtimes equals desperate.

If one out of 4 last minute enquiries buy it still makes the same as selling 4 for £100. It depends on the patterns of purchase.

Granted 4 may spend more than 1 on board.

Centre cities

[pee]

Simply unbelievable! Finland will probably get a new Ryanair route (after so many years of being totally neglected by FR). Edinburgh - Tampere will supposedly start on April 1st. Not yet in the booking engine, though.

[Seljuk22]

also new:
CIA-KRK (2nd March)
CIA-SVQ (3rd March)
PIK-IBZ (30th March)
PIK-CCF (31st March)
MAD-TRN (1st April)

[GnRdL]

@Seljuk22 also new:
CIA-KRK (2nd March)
CIA-SVQ (3rd March)
PIK-IBZ (30th March)
PIK-CCF (31st March)
MAD-TRN (1st April)MAD-TRN was announced 22/09/2009 and PIK-IBZ was 29/07/2009.

[Charlie Roy]

Balaton is back in one of the booking engines with the route:
Krakow - Balaton.

No schedule seems to be loaded as of yet...

[apaul]

I cannot see Krakow-Balaton working. If it's for the Summer season it would make much more sense to fly from a German airport to Balaton. Edinburgh-Tampere is also a route that's likely to last for weeks or a few months rather than years.

[pee]

I cannot see Krakow-Balaton working.
Well no, it's rather impossible. The news from last week says (it's translated automatically from Hungarian and partially corrected):
The district court of Zala County has put the Cape Clear Aviation, the company that operates the Balaton Airport FlyBalaton Sármellék, under liquidation.
The company [said previously] that it would close FlyBalaton in winter [and wanted to open it again] in April 2010. In 2008, appr. 120,000 passengers still flew to and from Sármellék, but [last year] only 15,000 passengers were left.

So Balaton Airport is going to be closed.
Edinburgh-Tampere is also a route that's likely to last for weeks or a few months rather than years.
Who nows? After all, it will be the first and only direct connection between Scotland and Finland. But of course, from the Finnish point of view, ANY route from TMP to the Southern beaches (or some shorter like SXF) would succeed unquestionably, EDI will have to prove itself.

(Balaton)
Edit: I've bothered with the Hungarian translation quite unnecessary, here is the link to the English-language text (http://bbjonline.hu/?col=1000&id=50755). There is obviously an option that the airport will run in spite of the bankruptcy, but somehow I doubt it.

[Exasperated]

Who nows? After all, it will be the first and only direct connection between Scotland and Finland.

Actually Finnair operated a summer only 2 x weekly HEL - EDI flight with A319 for a couple of seasons which was dropped last year.

Ex

[AndyH52]

This story from the Limerick Post indicates that Ryanair does seem to be pressing ahead with it's fleet reduction at SNN - pretty drastic stuff...

Ryanair axe 18 Shannon routes (http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1232:ryanair-axe-18-shannon-routes&catid=37:local-news&Itemid=60)

[Charlie Roy]

This story from the Limerick Post indicates that Ryanair does seem to be pressing ahead with it's fleet reduction at SNN

This story is based entirely on the website's booking engine for Summer 2010.
And yes the schedules are pretty scant. However to operate what is in the booking engine they will need 2 aircraft. And it is very possible that routes like Charleroi, Alicante, Birmingham, Bristol, Prestwick etcetera will end up being operated by aircraft based at those airports.

[840]

Today's Examiner appears to indicate that it has been confirmed by Ryanair

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/shannon-to-lose-17-ryanair-routes-105931.html

Although it also refers to transferring aircraft to bases in Holland and Ryanair don't have any bases there. Unless that means an Eindhoven base is planned.

[MerchantVenturer]

And it is very possible that routes like Charleroi, Alicante, Birmingham, Bristol, Prestwick etcetera will end up being operated by aircraft based at those airports.

Three weeks ago Ryanair's website was showing a daily flight from Bristol to Shannon in summer 2010 in both the booking engine and timetable sections, with times indicating it would be operated by a BRS-based aircraft - historically the route has been operated by a SNN-based aircraft.

On looking today there is now no availability in the booking engine for BRS-SNN next summer and the timetable for next summer is blank.

[AndyH52]

Its that time of the month again.......Yawn.......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif


If you find it so tedious / boring / tiresome then don't read it :ugh:

[Based]

AndyH52, I presumed ASFKAP was referring to his/her own post.

[GayFriendly]

Any chance that FR will be gracing BHX with any new routes in the future as it would seem its BHX base is on a down hill free fall slide into nothing, what a difference from when the base was first launched. Have FR fallen out with BHX or is BHX simply not performing as a base?

[Cyrano]

Irish Independent: (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/orsquoleary-says-deal-with-boeing-is-lsquohighly-unlikelyrsquo-1949236.html) Ryanair Chief Executive Officer Michael O’Leary said a deal to buy new planes from Boeing is "highly unlikely."

He said talks with the aircraft company will end if a deal isn’t reached by the end of the month.

"We don’t bluster. We make threats and carry them out," O’Leary said at a press conference in Dublin today.

Hmm, looks like Boeing's not rolling over too easily, so we're into the last few days of hardball negotiation...

[gkaloy10]

This time last year talks with Greek Authorities came to a halt, but, in the last few days there has been alot of chatter in the papers and in greek aviation forums about ryanair's first routes in greece, volos - milan, volos - london/birmingham. Aparently an aggrement has been met, and the deal is waiting to be signed.

[F14]

Does Volos have an airport or would it be Neo Acholis (sorry I forget the spelling) AFB? I was fun mixing it with the Greeck F16s oh and their nets at the eastern end of the runway!

[Charlie Roy]

Indeed, this article suggests Ryanair close to agreeing to fly from Volos to Milano or Bologna:
? ?????? - ?????????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????????? (http://www.e-erevna.gr/portal/story.aspx?ID=77215)
Sorry, article only available in Greek. Use: Yahoo! Babel Fish - Text Translation and Web Page Translation (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt)

Volos airport:
International Airport of Central Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Airport_of_Central_Greece)

[gkaloy10]

This is a totally new Airport. a much needed addition to central Greece. This could become the 3rd largest airport in Greece, large catchment area.

Official webpage of volos airport. -
Volos Nea Anchialos Airport of Central Greece (http://www.volosairport.gr/WD120AWP/WD120Awp.exe/CONNECT/aerodromio?_WWREFERER_=http%3A//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Airport_of_Central_Greece&_WWNATION_=3)

[jferreira20]

Catalunya newspaper AVUI that Ryanair is going to start operations in the airport of Barcelona El Prat in Spring, to compete with Iberia, Spanair and Vueling in the world's busiest route: Madrid-Barcelona.


Ryanair entra a l'aeroport del Prat

L’aerolínia irlandesa de baix cost vol arribar a l’aeroport de Barcelona a la primavera i acaparar el pont aeri

Ryanair, la companyia irlandesa low cost, està ultimant el seu pla de treball per entrar a l’aeroport de Barcelona la primavera vinent, segons han explicat a l’AVUI fonts del sector, informació que l’aerolínia no ha desmentit. En arribar al Prat, Ryanair es bolcarà en el pont aeri, operació que anirà en detriment de Spanair, Vueling i, sobretot, Iberia, que fa uns dies va anunciar reducció de tarifes en aquesta ruta, per tal de revitalitzar l’única operació que fa al Prat.

Abaratir les taxes, o tenir un descompte del 100% com s’ha fet en alguns aeroports de l’Estat, era una de les premisses que demanava Ryanair a Aena per entrar a Barcelona, juntament amb la no utilització de fínguers o d’autobusos i permetre que els passatgers caminessin per la pista fins a arribar a l’avió.

En aquest sentit, fonts consultades d’Aena asseguren que “aquestes condicions continuen sent inacceptables, tal com es va comunicar a l’aerolínia irlandesa fa uns mesos, quan aquesta va expressar la seva intenció de situar-se al Prat”. Les mateixes fonts asseguren que en cas de venir a Barcelona “tindran les mateixes condicions que la resta d’aerolínies”.

Tarifes especials
Ryanair té tarifes aeroportuàries especials als aeroports de Girona i Reus, però a Barajas, on també està present, les taxes que abona són les mateixes que s’apliquen a la resta d’aerolínies i els seus passatgers no accedeixen als avions caminant. A Barcelona serà el mateix.

Fonts d’Aena també expliquen que, en cas que Ryanair s’instal·li al Prat, “fins al febrer tenen temps d’informar-nos”, perquè els slots [les franges horàries dels avions per aterrar i enlairar-se] es demanen a Brussel·les, on es troben els estaments aeronàutics europeus, i tenen fins a finals de desembre per sol·licitar operar des del Prat del 28 de març al 31d’octubre del 2010. Aena també va confirmar que Ryanair se situaria a la terminal 2 del Prat, destinada a companyies de vols punt a punt i xàrters.

[Ian Brooks]

Don`t they have a very good rail link now as well which has caused passenger numbers to drop greatly on air route

Ian B

[Code 100]

Barca - Madrid trains run regularly throught the day, take about 3 hours and cost from 41 Euros to about 140 Euros in Tourist Class

[Charlie Roy]

Don`t they have a very good rail link now as well which has caused passenger numbers to drop greatly on air route

Indeed, but Ryanair will be a lot cheaper than the train.
Not exactly a similar example but look at Cork - Dublin. Fares are often cheaper than the train, and depending on your final destination the plane can sometimes be the fastest option.

[Code 100]

Pax will also have to consider the cost/time/difficulty of getting from Barcelona city centre to the airport. Did I see this being discussed somewhere on either an FR or another thread recently?

It may prove difficult to beat the advanced purchase internet rail fare.

[qwertyuiop]

I recently took the train from mad to bcn. Fabulous service. For me, much quicker than air but the biggest difference was the total lack of hassle.
I didnt have to que anywhere, I didnt have to get half undressed before getting on the train and I had a comfortable journey with loads of room.
I can only see pax numbers falling on this air route.

[bcn_boy]

Ryanair will be a disaster for all airlines at El Prat. The problem is overcapacity at the airport now Teminal 1 is complete. Ryanair do not provide good competition regardless of what the industry says. MOL will destroy the airlines that are currently on the route first then expand to other destinations. Whilst Ryanair is keen to destroy all competition, the airline does not take into account that the EU will break them up if they become too dominant. Airlines like Ryanair have only been able to take on these incumbent carriers because of EU airline deregulation which has forced flag carriers to allow other airlines on to their routes. The problem with MOL is that he and his airline is not just saitsfied with competing on a route, they undercut all competitors and push them out. That is not fair play and not what deregulation was designed for. If they enter El Prat it will be bye bye to Girona and Reus. Thousands of jobs lost in other parts of Catalunya for the greed of MOL and his shareholders. In the end it will be the passengers who loose out. Maybe not in the short term but it is on the horizon.

[racedo]

Hmmm so how many jobs were there at Gerona Airport in the winter 10 years ago ?

[bcn_boy]

Agree not many at Girona, but once you have a job, you dont really want to lose it do you? This will happen if MOL and crew setup at El Prat, Girona and Reus will suffer massively.

[mickyman]

bcn boy

Its inevitable that Ryanair will ruin airports as you say - they are
doing it all over Europe as I write.
Oh! how I wish for the days to return when flying was the habit of
the rich and the dream of many.

Still BA/Iberia are coming over the hill to the rescue of us all!!

MM

[bcn_boy]

They ruin airlines not just airports and this is my point. Ryanair ruins the competition therefore no competition. When there is no competition on a route the incumbent will charge higher prices. Back to those good old days of only the rich being able to fly. Like or loathe Ryanair, this is exactly the strategy being pursued by MOL. Do you honestly think MOL developed his strategy out of kindness for us, the great masses to fly?

[DILLTHEDOG]

Good Point MM, now lots of Chavs can fly all over the EU for practically nothing, (especially when they own their own LO COST Airline )

I have said this before, the only way RYR can fly all these people around for nothing is by screwing somebody else, somewhere in the chain, either anothe Pax, a Supplier, an Airport, or even by screwing Boeing or Airbus ( wonder who will be next ).

Thanks RYANAIR :D

[MUFC_fan]

I certainly do not hope it returns to the rich and famous!

I enjoy my day trips which cost less than a 200th of the price of a local bus ticket!

The problem is that the EU are not able to say to Ryanair - "you cannot fly between X and Y" as there is the free flight policy in place. Now if it was something like BA/IB at LHR where there is LIMITED space, then it may be different but Ryanair's lawyers, in MOL's terms, would 'rape' the EU if they were to refuse the the right to fly between two airports.

It will not happen in the near future that is for sure and Ryanair will, whether we like it or not, continue to grow across Europe and I would guess even further.

I just hope the second phase of the US/EU agreement comes into force as unleash Ryanair on the US - the American airlines won't know what's hit them!

Stage one of Ryanair's world domination is entering the final phases and I expect the USA to be MOL's next target - maybe his retirement plan...:ok:

[RooCat]

Hinew ppruner,
I was just wondering with small bases such as Pescara or Bari or even Knock, how come Ryanair don`t take advantage of the existing airports they fly to where multiple routes are being announced or extended, such as Santander, Venice-Treviso, Carcassonne Salvaza or Paris-Beauvais Tille?
Because of the huge markets Ryanair have created, are they not realising that Air France or Alitalia or even Iberia could actually come into the market and actually make something out of the oppertunities they are missing. For example AF Paris Beauvais to Lyon or Carcassonne to Orly, Treviso to Rome Fiumicino with Alitalia or Santander to Gatwick/Heathrow on Iberia.

Surely Ryanair have more sense than that if they are not taking the full advantage of wide open oppertunities because it only ends with MOL taking it out on the CEO's of the competitor airlines that they are ripping people off

[EI-BUD]

If we look at Alicante-Madrid (both airports are FR base) where Ryanair launched some time ago, the timings are extremely early and extremely late. Ie not perfect timings for the business traveller to make a day trip. Reading between the lines it would lead to think that AENA only offered Ryanair preferential fees on timings that dont allow Ryanair to get at the core customer base of Iberia, I may be wrong.

But if that is so, flying El Prat-Madrid would probably mean that Ryanair does an Alicante Madrid style operation, or be faced with high fees, El Prat would be unlikely to offer Ryanair anythink special to go onto an already busy route?

I dont see this route happening..

EI-BUD

[MUFC_fan]

I dont see this route happening..


If they are to offer fares such as 1 cent each way, I think that it WILL become a reality!


If we look at Alicante-Madrid (both airports are FR base) where Ryanair launched some time ago, the timings are extremely early and extremely late. Ie not perfect timings for the business traveller to make a day trip. Reading between the lines it would lead to think that AENA only offered Ryanair preferential fees on timings that dont allow Ryanair to get at the core customer base of Iberia, I may be wrong.

But if that is so, flying El Prat-Madrid would probably mean that Ryanair does an Alicante Madrid style operation, or be faced with high fees, El Prat would be unlikely to offer Ryanair anythink special to go onto an already busy route?


What relation do IB and AENA have opposed to BA and BAA for example? If they are owned by the same companies then fair enough but I don't think they are. The Spanish aren't German (FT.com / UK - Germany forces up Emirates fares (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1ba01400-d575-11de-81ee-00144feabdc0.html)) - I doubt they want to protect their national carrier more than their own business.

[Seat62K]

EI-BUD,

A greater number of early morning and late evening departures is a feature of many Spanish domestic routes with multiple daily departures. The afternoon (siesta time, after all!) has always tended to be less busy. Public transport to/from airports reflects this, too. For example, the last metro from T4 at Barajas to the city leaves at 1.33 am.

In any case, if you look at next summer's schedule you'll find up to four flights a day between Madrid and Alicante in each direction. Indeed, as I left my Stansted-Madrid flight recently at around noon the passengers queuing to board this 'plane were bound for Alicante.

I really hope Madrid-Alicante/Valencia etc. works for Ryanair. For too many years I've been ripped-off by Iberia on the Madrid-Alicante route. At one point I thought the arrival of Spanair on the route would make a real difference. Some chance!

My understanding is that Iberia has already shown the white flag. Hasn't it announced that it will withdraw from the domestic market? Either that or transfer the operation to Vueling, which it was doing anyway (to Clickair)?

I do not think Ryanair need to worry about Renfe's AVE trains. Average fares on these services are high and don't look dissimilar to those for Iberia's flights between the same cities.

In addition to this, Adif (the body which runs Spanish train stations) x-rays all luggage airline-style and I've seen long queues of people queuing to board Renfe long-distance trains.

[Seat62K]

In relation to El Prat, let's not forget the strong hostility felt by many Catalans towards anything Spanish.

I'm speculating here, but I wouldn't be surprised if some Catalans would be happy to see Ryanair give Iberia a bloody nose!

My understanding is that Catalans regarded Vueling as "theirs"; presumably they feel differently about the airline now that Iberia has such a stake in it.

[LPFR]

Random observation, but looking at the Ryanair fleet, just noticed that they use all letters (ex: EI-EBA to EI-EBZ) except Q and U (No EI-EBQ or EI-EBU). Any special reason for that?

[LBA]

I think it's because Q looks very much like O and U looks very much like V so they use one or the other, though i'm quite prepared to be corrected.

[riptack]

FYI AENA/IB

Just to refer to a previous point, AENA is a state owned company IB is not. It's a private company listed on Bolsa de Madrid IBEX35 with main shareholders being Caja Madrid(bank), BA, El Corte ingles and the government have about 5% through Sociedad Estatal de Participaciones Industriales.

[befree]

Ryanair Issues Fresh Ultimatum To Boeing (http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1258659497.html)

Post 2011 Ryanair may not be buying any new planes. This will free up cash to start returning it to the shareholders. In effect the market capital of the firm could start to reduce in a controlled way. later I expect they would sell of planes as the reached 7-10 years old. Slowly they could cut out the less profitable parts of the network where eco taxes and higher fuel cost bite most. He could easily reduce the airline to about half its current size by 2016.

"Around mid- to end-2011 we'll be looking at very substantial senior management bonuses and distributions to shareholders, in that order," O'Leary said. "I think I'm worth it."

[MUFC_fan]

If the deal with FR falls through then my financial advisor will be hearing from me! I want some shares!


"Around mid- to end-2011 we'll be looking at very substantial senior management bonuses and distributions to shareholders, in that order," O'Leary said. "I think I'm worth it."


Confirmation he doesn't plan to retire any time soon?

[no slot]

Confirmation that he is enticing shareholders to stick with him until mid to end 2011 with the carrot of dividends. Without this cunning move the Ryanair share price would undoubtedly start to creep south. Now moderately concerned rather than slightly concerned.
Rgds
no slot

[mickyman]

no slot

'this cunning move'

Surely not by MOL !!

MM

[GnRdL]

Tomorrow (24th November 2009) conference in Palma de Mallorca:

At 13:30 (local hour) - El ejecutivo de Marketing y Ventas de Ryanair para España y Portugal, Luis Fernández, explicará las novedades en las operaciones de esta compañía desde y hacia Palma. Hotel AC Ciudad de Palma (Plaza Puente, 3).

Europa Press news agenda (http://www.menorca.info/menorca_info/v4_1_2/index.php?tsx=noticia&mts=aa&idnx=191072)and other conference in Oslo with Michael O'Leary for today (24th November 2009):

Tuesday comes Ryanair boss Michael O `Leary to Oslo. Here the outspoken Irishman presenting "news about Ryanair's commitment in Norway". Most of the tips is based on several new routes from Moss Airport Rygge. The hottest candidates to be Dublin, Dusseldorf and Paris, said Moss Avis.

It also speculated about the O `Leary will introduce Rygge as its first base in Norway.

Boarding.no (http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=39246)

[jferreira20]

According to a portuguese newspaper, Today it will be announced a new base.
Furthermore, a source from the portuguese government claims that the negotiations for a base in Faro are almost concluded and the MOL's no 2, was last week in Lisbon, to check Aeroporto da Portela conditions.

[no slot]

MM
" This cunning move " is not so cunning when looking at the big picture. MOL has had to be cunning to box his way out of a self created over expansion in a contracting market. No more gains for shareholders through expansion, to salvage their investment he has promised a dividend.

Cunning yes, but who created the problem?
Ryanair will evolve, and survive these recent bad decisions, MOL may not. Just wait until the shareholders start making noise.

Rgds,
no slot

[anna_list]

Ryanair Announces 37th Base at Oslo Rygge - London Stock Exchange (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10285799)

[pee]

"conference in Palma de Mallorca"
"conference in Oslo"

But before that, MOL showed himself at the press conference in Stockholm today. And guess what?
The Swedish National Board for Consumer Complaints are “idiots”. At least if one is to believe Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary. He claimed that the Board misleads travellers and that they are refusing to follow the EU legislation.

At Ryanair they are unhappy with the Swedish interpretation of passengers’ rights at delays or cancelled flights. The majority of complaints that are resting with the Swedish Consumer Agency come from passengers displeased with Ryanair.
This summer a Swedish court ruled that the company must reimburse a couple whose flight was cancelled, causing them to have to find - and pay for - an alternative way home. This ruling has been appealed to the Supreme Court.

“It’s only in Sweden and Norway that we have these problems,” O'Leary concluded.

Btw. Which two regions have more in common; Oslo and Tampere in Central Finland or Oslo and... Wroclaw in SW Poland? I'd guess the Scandinavian link would have been much more successful, but there @FR... who cares? :ugh:

[positive]

There is a Dublin route from Oslo Rygge,where there's money to be made Ryanair are happy to flt to regardless of the airport fees!!!

[Jippie]

Worth mentioning that this is the first Ryanair base outside the European Union.

And another route from Eindhoven, Ryanair is growing pretty fast there again after the abolition of the travel tax.

[Charlie Roy]

Well it can't be Dublin, Ryanair have already said there won't be any new routes through Dublin

Given Norway is a non-EU country, I expect Ryanair cannot have Rygge employees on Irish contracts? Interesting...
I also wonder whether new Rygge routes which overlap with Torp routes will see the Torp equivalents reduced / diminished...

New routes
Aarhus
Berlin (Schonefeld)
Dublin [Existing Torp route]
Dusseldorf (Weeze) [Existing Torp route]
Eindhoven
Gdansk
Krakow [Existing Torp route]
La Rochelle
Malaga
Memmingen (Munich West)
Palma
Paris (Beauvais) [Existing Torp route]
Riga
Wroclaw
Valencia
Venice (Treviso)

However they currently operate several routes (Bremen, Stansted, Milan, Girona, Alicante) from both Torp and Rygge, so maybe this isn't a "Rygge is wonderful and we'll have a base there, but not at Torp because they're idiots" kind of move.

[Charlie Roy]

Oslo and Tampere in Central Finland or Oslo and... Wroclaw in SW Poland?

Norway has seen a recent explosion in the number of Polish living/working there.
In that respect it is no surprise that the airline Norwegian also decided to focus heavily on Poland in recent years. Ryanair's base announcement today will certainly be disappointing for Norwegian.

But I agree with you, I'm sure Rygge to Tampere could be a successful route for Ryanair.

[pee]

Don't get me wrong. I have NOTHING against Wroclaw, been there, everything OK! But this is a classic example of... well, an idiotic decision. Calling everybody idiots? Look in the mirror! There exists a similar route by Wizzair. Three times a week from TRP to WRO. Take a look at the flight prices in January:
Tue 05 Jan..... 89 NOK
Thu 07 Jan .... 89 NOK
Sat 09 Jan .... 89 NOK
These are total prices, all taxes and fees included. 9 euros (8.50£) per flight. Now what's the point in that? With so meagre popular interest so far, after FR starts the route the price will drop to 0,01 euros or so. If Wizz resign, Ryanair will likely follow and after a period of daily flights there will be no more flights at all. A totally pointless fight there.

Some research would show the price of cheapest tickets between Finland (anywhere) to Norway (anywhere). In January, unable to find any return flight below 200 euros.

Where's the logic?

[racedo]

Some research would show the price of cheapest tickets between Finland (anywhere) to Norway (anywhere). In January, unable to find any return flight below 200 euros.

Where's the logic?

Skyscanner is showing Oslo to Helsinki for £111 in January.

[boyzinblue]

Oslo confirmed as 37th base from March 2010

[Based]

I also wonder whether new Rygge routes which overlap with Torp routes will see the Torp equivalents reduced / diminished...

I was a bit surprised to see the Dublin - Torp route dropped from April but this would explain it. It looks likes Beauvais and Weeze will be switched too. Krakow - Torp can still be booked beyond March at the minute though.

[Bengt]

Given Norway is a non-EU country, I expect Ryanair cannot have Rygge employees on Irish contracts? Interesting...
Although a non-EU country Norway is a member of EEA which gives the right to work in any EU country (and vice versa). I believe this also means the Rygge employees could work on Irish contracts.

[CCR]

Was wondering with MOL about to fall out with Boeing on a new 737 deal and Airbus won't play ball, should he take a drive up the M1 to Bombardier and take a look at the new C series?
Admittedly, the CS300 with 149 seats is smaller than the 737-800 but a massive launch customer like Ryanair for 200 jets would ensure a large discount and make Bombardier a real player in this segment of the market. It would also enable Ryanair to compete on thinner routes.
Any thoughts?

[apaul]

With over 200 B737-800s in the Ryanair fleet O'Leary is really stuck with that aircraft unless he wants higher operating costs. So Boeing has no need to offer him a loss-making price and other manufacturers won't waste their time knowing O'Leary is likely just to be using them to get a lower price from Boeing. Having lead Airbus up the garden path last time and then tastefully boasting about 'raping' Boeing, O'Leary isn't going to get a bargain this time.

[CCR]

Good point but Bombardier are desperate to get into this market and Ryanair could use this move as a transition to a new generation of fuel efficient aircraft.
All airlines must change their model of aircraft at some point and there is no replacement of the 737 by Boeing on the cards.

[pee]

Just to complete my observation:
W6 TRF-WRO: Tue, Thu, Sat 18:25-20:10
FR RYG-WRO: Tue, Thu, Sat 17:05-19:10
Any doubts what's the purpose of creating this route?

[The Real Slim Shady]

Of course if MOL calls Boeing's bluff dumping 300+ nearly new 738s back into the hands of the lessors and the secondhand market would certainly kill the 73 production line at Seattle for a while!

[Charlie Roy]

W6 TRF-WRO: Tue, Thu, Sat 18:25-20:10
FR RYG-WRO: Tue, Thu, Sat 17:05-19:10
Interesting to see the Oslo to Poland market heating up.

Krakow [21 x weekly]
W6 KTW-TRF: 6 x weekly
FR KRK-TRF: 4 x weekly
FR KRK-RYG: 4 x weekly
DY KRK-OSL: 7 x weekly

Gdansk [16 x weekly]
W6 GDN - TRF: 5 x weekly
FR GDN - RYG: 4 x weekly
DY GDN - OSL: 3 x weekly
SK GDN - OSL: 4 x weekly

[Hollymead]

Trapani getting 13 new routes from next March .

[Charlie Roy]

Ryanair Holdings Announces Expansion At Trapani Sicily - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091125-709562.html)
from March 2010, it will base two new aircraft (4 in total), open 13 new routes (34 in total)

New routes
Billund
Bratislava
Cagliari
Eindhoven
Genoa
Gothenburg
Ibiza
Karlsruhe
Krakow
Maastricht
Memmingen
Trieste
Valencia

Increased frequencies
Brussels (Charleroi)
Frankfurt (Hahn)
Dusseldorf (Weeze)

Increased to year-round
Bari
Brindisi
Madrid

[dwlpl]

I see they missed the new route to Liverpool.

[MUFC_fan]

I see they missed the new route to Liverpool.


Is that not an LPL based flight? They have two new aircraft next summer so they will have to find somewhere for them to fly!

[Seljuk22]

LPL-TPS was announced last week (op by LPL a/c) and these routes are op. by TPS based a/c.

Also new routes from Bydgoszcz to BHX, BRE, ALC, GRO
TVP BYDGOSZCZ (http://ww2.tvp.pl/6489,20091125944758.strona)

[OltonPete]

BHX is a bit rich as a new route it only finished about three weeks
ago although it was in the special offers section for November for
a couple of days.

Not bookable yet for summer 2010.

Pete

[Seljuk22]

BLQ-AGP 3 weekly from 29 March
BLQ-STN increased to 11 weekly and BLQ-IBZ increased to 4 weekly

Expansion at Bologna - 1 new aircaft, 1 new route - London Stock Exchange (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10288808)

[boyzinblue]

With Lübeck airport set to close in March next year (if no new investor can be found) does anyone think that FR would move operations to Hamburg?

[Seljuk22]

FR won't go to HAM, maybe Wizz but I doubt it, too.

FR can go to BRE, BLL or Rostock (they flew NYO-RLG last summer - not succesful).