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simoncorbett
10th Feb 2010, 17:53
Ryanair flew BHX to Poitiers for the last few summers and was always very full when i used it, but RYR seem to of added this to the list of destinations now deleted from BHX :(

planenutter
10th Feb 2010, 17:59
I have freinds living in Parthenay about 45 mins awaqy from the airport and BHX always used to be the ideal airport for us now we are done for! Is there any news on flights which could start to Poitiers? We flew on Ediburgh-Poitiers in summer last year pax was full so :/

thanks planenutter

en2r
10th Feb 2010, 18:38
Flights between countries are traditionally ruled by air service treaties between the countries concerned. To allow an Irish airline to operate between the UK and Turkey would require an amendment to the UK/Turkey deal and the Ireland/Turkey deal. The Turks, and possibly the UK, may want something in return from the Irish. Each side wants the maximum possible benefit for itself, and traditionally each country wanted to protect it's national airline

A good example is the Canada and the UAE. The UAE wants more frequencies but the Canadians won't agree to amend the treaty since it is unlikely any Canadian carriers will want them - indeed it could take away business from Air Canada, at least that is the fear.

In recent years we now have a common aviation area in most of Europe (and Morocco) and open skies. Some countries at least are changing philosophy from trying to protect their own interests to the 'free market' philosophy. Interestingly Canada has an open skies deal with Europe, but in this case Canadian airlines are better positioned to take advantage of this
Yes exactly, the basic concept is that where 2 countries do not have an open skies agreement, only aircraft registered in either of the 2 countries can operate a route between them. For example Ireland and Russia, only either Irish or Russian aircraft can operate between Ireland and Russia. The UK and Turkey are exactly the same, only either UK or Turkish registered aircraft can operate between the two countries. Therefore Ryanair, who are Irish registered cannot operate between the UK and Turkey. Similiarly Easyjet who are UK (or Swiss) registered cannot operate a route between Ireland and Turkey.

Carnethy
10th Feb 2010, 21:05
Many thanks to "en2r" and "airhumberside" for explaining that situation. Now I understand the EU situation.

halwise
11th Feb 2010, 08:29
Copied and pasted from Ryanair's website:-


"Stockholm Skavsta Airport Closure - 10th Feb 2010
Stockholm Skavsta Airport illegally closed their runway yesterday evening, without prior notice being given to either Ryanair or its passengers. As a result of this closure, one aircraft was forced to divert to Stockholm Arlanda airport, all passengers were transported by bus back to Stockholm Skavsta Airport. We sincerely apologise to all passengers affected by this unnecessary diversion which was outside of Ryanair's control.

All flights are expected to operate normally on the 11th February."

A rather tetchy explanation from FR, could anyone shed anymore
light?
Hope this is the right forum, not wishing to ruffle anyone's feathers.:ok:

Blackcoffeenosugar
11th Feb 2010, 08:48
I thought it was illegal to do anything that RYR do not like and/or that will cost RYR money :}

AvroLincoln
11th Feb 2010, 08:52
Long bus ride from Stockholm Arland to Skavsta! Most passengers were probably on their way to Stockholm city anyway - who on earth would want to go to Skavsta, in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night?

SMT Member
11th Feb 2010, 09:10
who on earth would want to go to Skavsta, in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night?

Someone with a car parked there?

bocken
11th Feb 2010, 13:53
Interesting story! A similar thing happened to me late last year. On December 22nd 2009 I was on a flight from STN to GSE - as we got closer to Gothenburg the pilot said that due to the weather both Gothenburg Säve and Landvetter airports were closed, and that we would circle while they cleared the runways. Eventually we began approaching Säve only to abort quite late into the approach, whereupon we flew directly to Stockholm (I'm not sure if it was Skavsta or Vasteras, I think the former) where we landed and were initially wished a pleasant onward journey and thanked for flying with RYR - not very helpful when you're on the other side of a country in a middle of a snowstorm, 22:30 and in true Ryanair style, a long way from another transport hub. Before a mutiny broke out the staff announced that we would wait on the plane while they found out what RYR head office had to say, and whether Gothenburg would be re-opening soon. An hour or so later we took off and flew to Gothenburg Landvetter (we were able to call friends/family/etc while on the ground and rearrange meetings), and that was the end of that. No mention of 'illegal' closures, compensation, no sign of this in the Ryanair news archive.

LGS6753
11th Feb 2010, 17:55
Has anyone noticed how FR are very apologetic about everything they blame on someone else. But if they fail - no apology!

(Or am I just getting cynical?):confused:

daz211
11th Feb 2010, 20:35
I have flown Ryanair well over 100 time and the one time (YES ONE TIME) there was a problem Ryanair were very apologetic about it, the flight was due to leave CRL at around 2200 there was also a flight to CIA which went tech, we were all sitting O/B when the flight deck told us that due to CIA Airport opening hours our A/C was now to be used to take pax to CIA and they were flying an empty A/C in from STN to take us home, we were given a coffee voucher and a letter from MOL when we boarded our new A/C.

So on this one and only FR flight that I had a problem on not only were we handled very well, all the pax traveling to CIA were also cared for very well...

Like I have said many many times Ryanair is a very good Airline with very good prices I am looking forward to my next flight on the 01/03/10 STN-LPA all in price hand baggage only £65.00 RTN ...

Charlie Roy
12th Feb 2010, 06:58
Blackmailed or not, Poitiers is getting a new route: Barcelona Girona

planenutter
12th Feb 2010, 16:06
Finally another new flight :D Would love to see some for from different airports in the UK though :/ Any news thankyou

Planenutter

Centrefire
12th Feb 2010, 17:00
I have flown Ryanair well over 100 time and the one time (YES ONE TIME) there was a problem Ryanair were very apologetic about it, the flight was due to leave CRL at around 2200 there was also a flight to CIA which went tech, we were all sitting O/B when the flight deck told us that due to CIA Airport opening hours our A/C was now to be used to take pax to CIA and they were flying an empty A/C in from STN to take us home, we were given a coffee voucher and a letter from MOL when we boarded our new A/C.

So on this one and only FR flight that I had a problem on not only were we handled very well, all the pax traveling to CIA were also cared for very well...

Like I have said many many times Ryanair is a very good Airline with very good prices I am looking forward to my next flight on the 01/03/10 STN-LPA all in price hand baggage only £65.00 RTN ...Daz, how dare you write a post like this? Don't you know you're not allowed to praise Ryanair.
You have now earned the wrath of many posters here. I am sure we all know who they are.

IJM
12th Feb 2010, 17:21
we were given a coffee voucher and a letter from MOL when we boarded our new A/C.

So Daz - did MOL write a specific letter for this particular case at CRL at 2200, or was it just a photocopied "standard letter"?

Just jesting (partly), in all fairness it seems that Ryanair handled this situation reasonably well.

Centrefire - as far as I know the mods allow comments for and against Ryanair, so no issue that I can see. Everyone has the right to state an opinion - so long as it is within Forum rules / guidelines.

euroxx
13th Feb 2010, 13:39
From April 2010: Source is www.maltairport.com (http://www.maltairport.com) timings are the arrival time at MLA. Seems like 2 or 3 a/c will be needed for the whole MLA operation. Maybe RYANAIRs newest base? Upcoming announcement? Any thaughts??

MONDAYS
FR 6595 PRESTWICK 1200 new
FR 7242 DUBLIN 1210 new
FR 3381 STANSTED 1400 new
FR 3882 LUTON 2100
FR 4162 TRAPANI 2140

TUESDAYS
FR 9012 GERONA 0900
FR 6695 EDINBURGH 1110
FR 6551 BOURNEMOUTH 1120 new
FR 7242 DUBLIN 1210
FR 5382 MADRID 1210
FR 3381 STANSTED 1400 new
FR 9874 BARI 1750
FR 9992 PISA 1840
FR 1684 STOCKHOLM 1930 new
FR 3874 TREVISO 1940
FR 3882 LUTON 2100

WEDNESDAYS
FR 3774 BRISTOL 1050
FR 6695 EDINBURGH 1110 new
FR 7242 DUBLIN 1210 new
FR 3381 STANSTED 1400 new
FR 3874 TREVISO 1940 new
FR 3882 LUTON 2100
FR 4162 TRAPANI 2150 new

THURSDAYS
FR 9012 GERONA 0900
FR 6595 PRESTWICK 1200 new
FR 7242 DUBLIN 1210
FR 5382 MADRID 1210
FR 3381 STANSTED 1400 new
FR 9992 PISA 1745
FR 9874 BARI 1750
FR 1684 STOCKHOLM 1840
FR 3874 TREVISO 1940
FR 2448 LEEDS 1950 new
FR 3882 LUTON 2100

FRIDAYS
FR 3774 BRISTOL 1200 new
FR 3381 STANSTED 1700 new
FR 3874 TREVISO 1940 new
FR 7242 DUBLIN 2050 new
FR 3882 LUTON 2100
FR 4162 TRAPANI 2140

SATURDAYS
FR 9012 GERONA 0900
FR 3882 LUTON 1055
FR 6551 BOURNEMOUTH 1120 new
FR 7242 DUBLIN 1210
FR 5382 MADRID 1210
FR 3381 STANSTED 1400 new
FR 9874 BARI 1750 new
FR 9992 PISA 1840 new
FR 3874 TREVISO 1940
FR 6695 EDINBURGH 2025 new
FR 4981 LIVERPOOL 2145 new

SUNDAYS
FR 3882 LUTON 1055
FR 7242 DUBLIN 1210
FR 3774 BRISTOL 1355
FR 3381 STANSTED 1400 new
FR 1684 STOCKHOLM 1930
FR 3874 TREVISO 1940
FR 2448 LEEDS 2040 new
FR 4162 TRAPANI 2150

fanrailuk
14th Feb 2010, 08:21
Looks highly unlikely to me as all arrival times are allowing for an early departure from all of the mentioned airports arriving in MLA at those times given above; notably all of which (except one) are FR bases.

On the other hand, I do believe MLA has a lot more potential routes to offer should FR choose to set-up there...!

PP ;)

anna_list
14th Feb 2010, 09:48
Hi euroxx,

Thanks for the information. I don't think it points to a base (although it's no secret that Ryanair want to set up a base in MLA in future, if they get the right incentives) - I suspect you will find that every arrival in MLA that you have listed has a corresponding departure going back to the base airport 25 minutes later. These may just be slot requests though, so treat them with some caution.

However, the flights to PIK (2 weekly) and to STN (daily) would be new, operated by PIK and STN aircraft respectively. Add these to the new routes to LBA and BOH and the frequency increases on BRS, EDI, DUB and NYO, and it looks as though Ryanair have found Malta to their liking.

OneOfTheKraut
15th Feb 2010, 02:23
Rumours have it that Ryanair soon will announce Bremen-Berlin, a 300 km ride. Another attempt on the embattled German market. They already fly to Berlin from Hahn and Weeze, also Bremen-Memmingen and Hahn-Luebeck. But none of the routes are particularly successful. Maybe they will try Karlsruhe as a domestic destination.

davidjohnson6
15th Feb 2010, 04:00
OneOfThe - I realise that DB is sometimes expensive for a fare booked a month in advance. However, given that the train, even allowing for changes, from city centre to city centre takes under 3 hours and runs at least every hour.... can Ryanair really compete when they so actively disclaim any kind of network connectivity?

It would be oh so easy for Deutsche Bahn to launch some additional 'special fares' and just flood the market between these 2 destinations with cheap capacity in order to signal to FR to get lost !

tosch19
15th Feb 2010, 10:59
Travel time between BRE and Berlin is around 3h with 1 change regular return fare is 164€ but with special offers or rail cards it's less.
There are 2 up to 3 connections per hour between and one ICE train has about 350 seats.
I don't expect that the DB will go in competition against FR and the travel time by flight is not really shorter.

jpthomas72
15th Feb 2010, 12:00
I don't expect that the DB will go in competition against FR and the travel time by flight is not really shorter.
Indeed, DB doesn't care at all about FR, possibly a bit about LH and AB, but surely not FR. Very different from UK, e.g. Virgin trains with huge peak fares and throw-away cheap late evening tickets. The ICE trains are probably packed full anyway (the part of the fleet that works...). About journey time: Don't forget, if you're unlucky, getting from SXF to the city centre also can easily take an hour: Walk from terminal to train station, trains only every 30min, or the very slow S-Bahn (don't get me started...). Doesn't even get much better once BBI opens. Sure, SXF1 bus is very useful. Surprised to hear HHN-SXF is not going so well, it's mostly 3x daily so very high frequency (on par with HHN-STN). But of course has tons of competition from CGN etc.

pee
17th Feb 2010, 14:13
Low-cost airlines are keen to fly from Swift, the new low-cost terminal to open this fall in Kastrup (CPH), writes Jyllands-Posten.

The companies just negotiating new routes are, among others, EasyJet, Transavia and Ryanair. Swift will have the capacity to serve six million passengers and is expandable to double that.

flymaniac
17th Feb 2010, 20:02
@ oneoftheKraut "Maybe they will try Karlsruhe as a domestic destinatio

I dont believe that FR will fly from FKB to Berlin. Air Berlin has 4 flights daily. The same with FKB to BRE. Air Berlin has 4 flights daily to HAM.

speedbirdATC
18th Feb 2010, 19:06
Just out of curiosity I typed into airframes.org a few of the old 737-200 registrations. The 'Jaguar' painted 732 is noted as currently in storage. I was wondering if anyone knows what RYR did with all their 732's, who had bought any from them, and do RYR actually still own any in storage, and where do they keep them if they do.

Anyone got any info on this? Thanks

SpeedbirdATC

Random Flyer
18th Feb 2010, 19:08
From April 2010: Source is www.maltairport.com (http://www.maltairport.com/) timings are the arrival time at MLA. Seems like 2 or 3 a/c will be needed for the whole MLA operation. Maybe RYANAIRs newest base? Upcoming announcement? Any thaughts??


It appears the new flights listed above are no longer listed on the Malta Airport website.

allanmack
18th Feb 2010, 21:05
Re the 200s. Some were sold on I believe with some scrapped at PIK.

vkid
19th Feb 2010, 09:43
The Ryanair Story – How one airline is dictating its own online media agenda (http://olearyanalytics.com/the-ryanair-story-how-one-airline-is-dictating-its-own-online-media-agenda/)

Worth a look.. Robbed from here (http://www.politics.ie/media/124150-ryanair-how-one-airline-dictating-its-own-media-agenda.html)

Skipness One Echo
19th Feb 2010, 12:52
The Eircell one, EI-CJD from memory is a cabin trained at Dublin airport now. Quite a distinctive paint job!

danielmellor
19th Feb 2010, 14:14
Hello :)
Travelling BHD-STN-SNN On The 30th March and SNN-LPL-BHD on The 4th of April, Its £72.00 at the minute, is Now The best time to book or if not when is?

Charlie Roy
19th Feb 2010, 14:22
The Eircell one, EI-CJD from memory is a cabin trained at Dublin airport now. Quite a distinctive paint job!

http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~spot/man/man2/ei-cjd.JPG

MUFC_fan
19th Feb 2010, 14:40
Ryanair are the most unpredictable airline for pricing.

However, their website currently includes March and April in their promotions so it probably is the best fare.

Is there a reason why Ryanair haven't run any 'free' flight promotions lately? They must be getting the load factor they need at their current fares I suppose...

LGS6753
19th Feb 2010, 14:44
MUFF,

New corporate strategy - run it for cash, not growth. (Following the decision not to purchase more aircraft in December) Logically, fares will rise on that basis, commensurate with keeping the aircraft fairly full.

crewmeal
19th Feb 2010, 14:51
Here we go again, poor people dumped at a strange airport and told to fend for themselves. Seems like the fares they paid match up to other charter fares. What ever the reason for diverting they should take care of their passengers

Ryanair 'abandons passengers' on wrong Canary Island after landing in thunderstorm | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252245/Ryanair-abandons-passengers-wrong-Canary-Island-landing-thunderstorm.html)

ceimanfhiadh
19th Feb 2010, 15:39
Why didn't the plane just take off to Lanzarote again once the weather had cleared?

EuroChallenger
19th Feb 2010, 15:54
Given the pax were given details how to claim hotac expenses, and then a free ferry crossing, what more could they do? Maybe airport ground staff/Ryanair agents could have assisted in the hotel search etc?

lfc84
19th Feb 2010, 15:56
someone must be lying since the report says no one was around to assist when they disembarked

hence they paid out of their own pocket

Random Flyer
19th Feb 2010, 15:57
Why didn't the plane just take off to Lanzarote again once the weather had cleared?


Thats my thinking too. Surely there would have been passengers waiting in Lanzarote for the return flight to the UK?

As always with the press, I get the feeling we’re not getting the whole story.

sky9
19th Feb 2010, 16:54
OK its the daily mail.
Ryanair 'abandons passengers' on wrong Canary Island after landing in thunderstorm | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252245/Ryanair-abandons-passengers-wrong-Canary-Island-landing-thunderstorm.html)

It would be interesting to know how long the thunderstorm lasted.

ray cosmic
19th Feb 2010, 18:33
You get what you pay for. Airline is safe for sure, but passenger handling is a direct result of people's willingness to fly for cheap and be taken from behind. Good for them..:ok:

The SSK
19th Feb 2010, 18:48
'Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Lanzarote South Airport'

Capot
19th Feb 2010, 18:53
What exactly did Ryanair do that's so wrong? Which of the following FR spokesperson's quotes is a lie?

Ryanair flight FR 4755, Bristol to Lanzarote, diverted to Fuerteventura due to bad weather in Lanzarote.
ferries were also affected by these high winds so passengers were provided with EU261 information which outlines their entitlement to provide receipted hotel expenses to Ryanair, for refund.
Ryanair arranged that the ferry company would carry affected Ryanair passengers to Lanzarote free of charge when ferries recommenced the following morning.I don't know the details, but to anyone who thinks that they should have waited until they could fly them on to the original destination, I would say that I can think of several probable reasons why that was a non-starter. FCL, stand availability etc etc etc.

I don't suppose that Ryanair enjoyed landing them at the wrong place, and for the life of me I can't think what I would have done much differently, through the handling agent. The diversion was not FR's fault. Free hotel, free onward ferry when available, sounds OK to me.

Edit: Afterthought; OK, refunded hotel, not quite the same as free, and FR's legendary slowness and obstruction in producing the refund. But that's a sin they haven't yet committed for these people. so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

sky9
19th Feb 2010, 19:02
Capot,

I haven't got the Lanzarote weather in front of me but anyone one else flying from the UK would have waited until the thunderstorm had cleared then flown to destination and either night-stopped and returned next day or used discretion to get back.

Not only were the outbound passengers dumped, I presume the return passengers are still hanging around on an extended holiday.

You get what you pay for; except Ryanair really isn't any cheaper than the charter airlines when you add in all the extras.

And I doubt if they will pay the expenses, they will claim force majeure.

Le Tirer
19th Feb 2010, 19:04
What exactly did Ryanair do so wrong? Which of the following FR spokesperson's quotes is a lie?

Quote:
Ryanair flight FR 4755, Bristol to Lanzarote, diverted to Fuerteventura due to bad weather in Lanzarote.


I don't think Ryanair did much wrong......apart from commenting on the wrong flight!

"The family had flown from Bournemouth Airport to Lanzarote on Wednesday and were left stranded along with dozens of other passengers."

If that is the case they would have been on FR6766 from Bournemouth not FR4755 from Bristol. Were the Bournemouth passengers given the same information as the Bristol pax? If they were (and Ryanair pay the expenses as promised) then I see no problem.

LT

lexxity
19th Feb 2010, 19:14
I thought your ticket was a contract to fly you from point A to point B. Not point C. Point A can be say MAN and point B LHR. Your ticket is actually a contract to London, not a specific airport so you could be rerouted to LGW and that would be perfectly acceptable according to IATA. However to dump you on the wrong island and then (allegedly) leave you to make your own arrangements is pretty appalling really.

sky9
19th Feb 2010, 19:18
'Ryanair apologises to passengers for any inconvenience caused by this weather related diversion but can never put passenger convenience before passenger safety.”

How long was ACE closed by the thunderstorm? Is there a website that retains historical actuals?

vanHorck
19th Feb 2010, 19:26
the storms on the Canary Islands have been exceptionally rough this year. Have a look here
FOTO’S Zuidwesterstorm: ‘Adios Playa de Maspalomas’ at Gran Canaria: Hollandse Nieuwe. Artikelen en nieuws over Gran Canaria en de Canarische Eilanden (http://www.hollandsenieuwe.com/fotos-zuidwesterstorm-adios-playa-de-maspalomas_11902/)
at the damage caused to Maspalomas on the day. The beach has been washed away and can clearly be seen floating as a soup offshore

foresight
19th Feb 2010, 19:35
There was bad weather for much of the day yesterday. Several aircraft diverted.
Ryanair approaches ACE after a 5 hour flight, decides they don't like the weather (or it is out of limits) and, presumably not having the fuel to hold until it might clear, decide to divert. Just as anyone else would have done.
What were the crew then meant to do?
Sit on the ground going out of hours, in case the sun came out and turning a two sector day into a three sector day. If they had, they might have got the pax to ACE but there would have been no outward flight from ACE back to UK. It's next rotations from the UK would have been cancelled or severely disrupted as it sat on the ground in ACE for 12 or more hours.
So what did they do wrong?
Nothing except it was Ryanair and the Daily Mail doesn't like them

merlinxx
19th Feb 2010, 19:43
Check the wording for Scheduled Airlines, it is a promissory note of an offer to transportation from point A to B, not a guarantee of said transportation. Charter airline carriage is a fixed legal guarantee for transportation from point A to B.

Look at the carriage rules & regs. I'm no lover of O'Leary air, will not board one of his
acft, but tis legal:ugh:

Capot
19th Feb 2010, 20:16
anyone one else flying from the UK would have waited until the thunderstorm had cleared then flown to destination and either night-stopped and returned next day or used discretion to get back.There seems to be a misapprehension that "discretion" is something that pilots can always pull out of the bag to avoid the disruption and incovenvience that flight crew limitations would otherwise cause. It isn't.

Adding not only a sector, but also additional time to a duty period, ie a hour or two at best or several hours at worst, in situations of this nature is so far outside the acceptable use of "discretion" that the company who authorised/instructed it would risk its AOC and the pilots their licences. That's assuming (a big assumption) that adding the sector and time would have taken them right outside their company's FCL rules. But I would be surprised in FR don't roster crew for a normal day that has very little slack in it.

As well as this, a large reactive delay could have disrupted many hundreds of passengers' journeys that day and possibly the following day, and their interests also count.

7AC
19th Feb 2010, 20:19
What's the old maxim?
You get what you pay for or you pay for what you get.

BOU_PAX
19th Feb 2010, 20:54
Local Paper coverage:-

Ryanair dumps Poole family on wrong holiday island (From Bournemouth Echo) (http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/5016705.Ryanair_dumps_Poole_family_on_wrong_holiday_island/)

Interesting to read the comment by "poole girl" near the bottom of the page in the Your Say section....

Flightmech
19th Feb 2010, 21:10
Had some friends who were flying to La Palma (SPC) with Thomson just before Christmas. After one G/A and 20 mins holding they diverted to TFS, put in a hotel overnight and told to be up at 5am for a return to SPC after crew rest. After getting up for a 5am depart they were told they were now getting the ferry at 1100. No explanation given. Probably didn't even get a mention on here as it wasn't Ryanair:ugh:

BEagle
19th Feb 2010, 21:23
I recall travelling to a Spanish island some years ago in early winter. The flight couldn't get in due to weather and approach aid limits (cloudbase was below the VOR approach limit), so we diverted to another island where the weather was OK.

Taxi to an hotel, rooms were all ready for us. Next day another taxi took us back to the airport where we were put onboard an onward flight to our original destination. Every aspect of the diversion and nightstop was paid for by the airline and it didn't cost any of us a penny. Or rather a peseta.

But that was before the bottom-feeding 'low cost airlines' dumbed down airline travel to its current nadir. How can you expect a proper service if you don't fly with a proper airline?

FR-
20th Feb 2010, 06:52
Hmmm Ryanair bashing by the snobs and charters. Do you people have nothing better to do? Maybe you should spend more time looking at your own business model and start making a profit and organic growth. And before we comment too much on this one flight (one of 1000 plus per day), maybe we should try and find out all the facts first not the normal bias media image of Ryanair.

FR-
20th Feb 2010, 06:55
We should hear more about BTS by end of next week.

daz211
20th Feb 2010, 08:25
People make me so mad, maybe the news papers and the narrow minded passengers O/B the flight should look back in time and think what might have happened if Ryanair had not stuck to its SAFTY FIRST policy.

I can just see the headlines now and the news reports. as far as I can see RYANAIR done the best thing and the right thing, and NO you DONT get what you paid for, infact you get a whole lot more, you get NEW Aircraft and an Airline thats puts the safty of its passengers first and you still pay next to nothing.BBC News | UK | Crash passengers fly home (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/449145.stm)

I would ask all Passengers and Ryanair bashers to pay attention to the following

A Gerona airport spokesman said the drama happened at the height of a thunderstorm and on the pilot's second attempt at landing.

sky9
20th Feb 2010, 09:00
Daz, no one is criticizing the crew, they are criticizing the actions of the company. The 2 issues are completely different and shouldn't be confused.
What has happened to the passengers travelling from ACE back to the UK?
Whether Ryanair like it or not they do have obligations to their passengers especially when the flights are not daily. If they don't change the passengers will not book with them.

harbour cotter
20th Feb 2010, 11:39
Beagle,

You are quite right. I paid nearly £1500 for a one way, cattle class flight from Oman to the UK. I had been travelling all day to get to the airport, I never had the opportunity for a meal (for various reasons) and still only managed to get to the airport 1 hour before the flight, precluding any opportunity at the airport. Once on the tightly packed and uncomfortable flight, I was provided, rather thrown, 2 crackers and a piece of cheese. On requesting was there any meals, I was promptly told, NO this is a night flight, we dont serve meals. I asked was there any sandwiches I could pay for, for which she said no. I asked could I have a beer, the CC reluctantly brought one and quite clearly stated dont bother asking for any more.

That was with BA. And it wasnt the first instance, I even had a bad experience in club class, however since then, I have only flown 'proper' airlines and avoided BA like the plague. Incidentally, I did get the cost refunded by tmy Company, but that does not take away the appalling cost and lack of service.

The only other bad experience with long-haul was with Iberia...they seem a heaven made match for each other.

My next flight is to Naples, its £25 all in return, including all costs, the leg room is the same as BA, buts its direct unlike BA. but I may splash out a tenner on a sandwich and a drink - Are you really sure you get what you pay for? It an old adage that may have some merits, but its untrue on so many levels.

harbour cotter
20th Feb 2010, 11:51
Oops, I meant to mention RYR within my last post, but the principles remain the same

Capot
20th Feb 2010, 15:11
Sky 9,

We understand that you think that Ryanair should have acted differently. But all you have provided is rhetorical questions and statements like

What has happened to the passengers travelling from ACE back to the UK? and

Whether Ryanair like it or not they do have obligations to their passengersYes, well, good rhetoric, but please tell us in simple clear terms what actions Ryanair should have done from the time the aircraft landed at the diversion airfield, and the order that they should have done them in.

For example; "they should have waited until the weather at the destination cleared, then reboarded the passengers, then flown to the destination, then operated the return sector with a delay."

That's only an example of what you might say. Please don't forget to cover all the angles such as FCL, ATC and stand clearances into the destination,overnight engineering cover if a nightstop were to become mandatory, rescheduling the following day's programme, calling in standby crews etc.

I'm sure you have a clear picture about how it should have been handled, instead of just criticism about how it was handled, so why not share it?

sky9
20th Feb 2010, 18:01
Capot

As someone who has spent 35 years in the industry at the sharp end I can assure you that the company I worked for would never have dumped passengers in FUE and returned to the UK empty (if that is what Ryanair did). I know that they are masquerading as a schedule airline however the routes that they have migrated onto are holiday routes where people fly out and back within 14 days.
Had I been operating that flight with the company I worked for we would have waited for an improvement at ACE then flown there with the outbound passengers. If it was possible to return to the UK within FTL's we would have done it. If not we would have overnighted with min rest in FUE or ACE and returned next day with the inbound passengers, yes late but not a week late like the passengers in ACE are facing.

I have never in 35 years in the industry had problems in stand clearances and calling in standby crews, so don't try to sound clever and sophisticated and talk down to me. It might just be that there is insufficient slack in the Ryanair model to allow for delays.

Be in no doubt it will only take a few more incidents like this for Joe Public to recognise that if you buy a Ryanair ticket it is no guarantee that they will get you to your destination or home again at the end. It's call Customer Service or looking after your passengers something that appears to be bottom of the list of priorities in Ryanair.

Yes the airline I worked for was a charter airline but they had more idea of customer service that Ryanair will ever understand.

Badgermanuk
20th Feb 2010, 18:29
Just to clarify Ryanair did Fly to ACE and take those waiting passengers back to BOH -and if you read the link mentioned in post #806 and the comments from Poole Girl it seems when the plane landed in FUE it had the Outbound BOH passengers on it.....well most of them anyway !! so maybe a bit more to this story than has been published.

A recent Ryanair BOH -TFS flight went Tech on arrival in TFS, delaying the return until the next day, the affected passengers had Taxis and Hotels laid on for them, so it does seem Ryanair get it right when they have too....

Limburg
21st Feb 2010, 21:01
I heard a rumour about possible bases at one of the Canary islands and Venice Treviso, can anyone confirm that rumour?

MUFC_fan
21st Feb 2010, 21:53
If it is to be any Canary Island, sense would be TFS but it wouldn't surprise me if any of the four became a base.

The islands have this unique ability to have year round sun and very high air fares compared to the rest of Europe.

Just take a look at some of the fares the so-called 'low fares' airlines are able to charge, some over £400 one way (not mentioning any northern airline in particular) yet their aircraft got out and come home packed to the rafters, not to mention the money they make onboard!

If not Ryanair, easyJet will be there before long...

FR-
22nd Feb 2010, 06:34
Yes ive heard its going to be either TFS or FUE. . . . . not sure about venice, makes sence with all the routes it has. I just wish FR would look at more north africa from the france/spain/italy.


fr-

Hollymead
23rd Feb 2010, 18:19
Cancelling routes out of Alghero , CRL, BVA, GRO, BRI , VBS and LPL.

potash
23rd Feb 2010, 18:30
If the base happens it will be more than likely to be fue deep down fr like the place great airport loads of room for expansion

JohnnyPharm
23rd Feb 2010, 18:31
The weary family finally arrived at Playa Blanca yesterday following an eight mile ferry trip in choppy seas to Lanzarote.




8 miles, that is actually very good for FR getting you to your destination. It's usually at least 3-60miles from the airport to the "destination" eg Paris Beauvais, Frankfurt Hahn etc so 8 miles is pretty fantastic. Maybe they should change their destination name to Lanzarote Fuertaventura! :ok:

jaypla
24th Feb 2010, 07:30
Does anybody know which are the 3 biggest FR non-base airports? Thanx

Gulf Julliet Papa
24th Feb 2010, 09:01
In Feb;

BVA - Paris Beauvais (9th including bases)
SXF - Berlin (17th including bases)
TSF - Venice Treviso (20th including bases)

pee
24th Feb 2010, 09:17
Peter Vinthagen from Sweden expresses his opinion why people seem to love to hate Ryanair Perhaps because that is all they are. Those that have gotten used to cheaper prices no longer remember the old days of £200 or bust flights from Stockholm to see the folks back in the UK.

Perhaps because they treat their passengers the same way they treat all the suppliers, customers and their competitors alike – with ill disguised contempt. They are the Chelsea FC of the skies – “No one likes us, we don’t care…”

There is no pool of goodwill.

For a long time it just didn’t matter, the paying customer would come back time and again anyway, feeling more and more cheated as extra is added upon extra, even the prospect of toilet charge surprising no one. Money talks, and as the dominant low-cost carrier, they could undercut everyone else.

The reaction to the announcement that Norwegian is opening more routes from Arlanda, and last week’s well-publicised spat between the Ryanair and Stockholm Skavsta, one can sense that the Irish airline may have to start to draw on a pool of customer loyalty that just does not exist – it has never existed.

Nyköping obviously enjoys the business opportunity and growth that Ryanair has given them, as do I am sure all the other backwater airports across Europe – but, given the choice, would they rather get their money from someone, anyone, else?

Ryanair is perhaps no better that the ‘fat cat’ airlines that it disparages and thus no more than a poor man’s monopoly. People fly with them for purely utilitarian reasons – they have to, not because they want to.

Like all empires, Ryanair’s will come to an end, but like a old punch drunk prize-fighter, will they see the upper cut before it is too late?

The Ryanair paradox – They may be the self-proclaimed “World’s Favourite Airline,” but the world, one feels, couldn’t care less either way.
Source: The Local (http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/onswedishbusiness/2010/02/18/ryanair-when-the-going-gets-tough-will-the-tough-get-going/), Sweden

racedo
24th Feb 2010, 09:26
Yet another journalist who feels he speaks for everyone.

What is it about Journalists who arrogantly feel they speak for everyone, in reality what they write is just more stuff to add to the recycling bin for collection by the dustmen.

pwalhx
24th Feb 2010, 09:36
I will preface my comment by saying I do fly Ryanair, have no axe to grind with them and accept you get what you pay for.

However I have to say the Swedish piece is quite well written and in truth sums up the situation quite well.

Racedo I guess your response is tempered by where your loyalties lie.

racedo
24th Feb 2010, 10:37
Pwallhx

Given the number of Daily Mail, Daily Express, Sun, Times, Telegraph etc etc etc journos who claim the same stuff then after a while listening to the stuff they come up with not just on Ryanair but on everything then you tend to file it away pretty quickly.

Journos have generally an axe to gring or issue to get themselves noticed because a journo unnoticed is just another unpublished writer.

Hobby Flyer
24th Feb 2010, 10:39
Flying is tedious. Getting crammed into a metal tube and being propelled across the skies at 800kph until you get to your destination is a task we have to endure in order to get to where we want. Terrorists, red tape, anti-immigration laws, regulatory requirements, and even ecomentalists have all conspired to bring us to where we are today. The 1950s was apparently "the golden age of motoring," where every trip was a joy. Now sitting in our cars in heavy traffic while we wait to get to wherever we are going is called commuting and is something we don't like, but have to endure in order to get where we are going.

The "full service" airlines prospered during the "golden age of aviation," but now that the market has matured, low cost airlines have come of age, and people wistfully reminsce about the golden age, the same way that the drivers of the 1960s fondly reminisced about the golden age of motoring. In summary therefore, and this is merely my opinion, the low cost airlines have changed the whole market, and we are currently close enough to "the golden age of aviation" that some people who experienced it fondly remember it, whereas the vast majority of the flying population today have lower expectations, which are adequately met by Ryanair. Flying is a means to an end, and as such is something that must be endured. Like standing on the subway, or sitting in traffic on the M25. The likes of Ryanair are the future, whether certain people writing in small scandinavian "newspapers" like it or not.

racedo
24th Feb 2010, 11:02
The 1950s was apparently "the golden age of motoring," where every trip was a joy. Now sitting in our cars in heavy traffic while we wait to get to wherever we are going is called commuting and is something we don't like, but have to endure in order to get where we are going.

Slightly off topic but the Golden Age always brings wry smiles from people.

Someone I met recently whose dad was a Salesman living around Redhill area close to Gatwick told me that when he was on the road in early 1970's he would leave on Sunday evening and stay at a B&B / Hotel close to area he looked after i.e. Greenford and surrounding area as on Monday it would take 3-4 hours to get there and generally returned on Thursday's with day in office on Friday. These days a Sales guy would get laughed at doing this as M25 etc makes it commutable.

I think it is similar with "Golden Age" of aviation which great if you had the money, majority never did and people forget the long flights from horrible airports.

Bearcat
24th Feb 2010, 11:17
Like all empires, Ryanair’s will come to an end, but like a old punch drunk prize-fighter, will they see the upper cut before it is too late

i dont think so, for me though their deadliest threat long term is Easy. FR also have a CEO that can be the doyen of the media or the greatest rascal....a flawed genius maybe but he has set the bench mark in todays climate of costs / yields.

mickyman
24th Feb 2010, 13:30
Journos hide behind words and think that because they get published/printed that they are immune from confrontation.
Remember the Panorama journo who thought that he could
ruffle MOL's feathers by badgering him on the companys
doorstep??
Like Ryanair and newspapers - you pays your money......

I resent the 'Chelsea of the skies' remark - everyone knows
that Man U/Liverpool are more arrogant !!

MM

Random Flyer
24th Feb 2010, 13:51
I resent the 'Chelsea of the skies' remark - everyone knows
that Man U/Liverpool are more arrogant !!


At least Man Utd and Chelsea have a reason to be arrogant ;)

racedo
24th Feb 2010, 13:52
It was Millwall who had the slogan.............typical journo, no research.

Seljuk22
25th Feb 2010, 08:44
HHN to Volos, Kos and Ibiza from May :ok:

PPRuNe Pop
25th Feb 2010, 09:14
You may notice that a few posts have been deleted. This is because they breach the boundaries that PPRuNe laid down 11 years ago. Now and again, however, we find that someone thinks it is an OK thing to say anything they want. Its not!

Airlines are fair game for exposing their shortcomings or service, including personal experiences or news that is of interest but we draw the line at snide, abuse, naming names, insults and anything that goes against the rules. Sniping at fellow posters is a sign of your own inability to debate and it very often leads to tit for tat and leads to the deletions you have noted. Indeed, a system is in place for your fellow posters to complain about anyone who they feel has stepped out of line, which automatically alerts the moderators. That happens frequently.

Please remember freedom of speech does not exist on PPRuNe, it never has, so thinking you can say exactly what you want is not acceptable. But we do enjoy good debates. Also remember that these boards are read by millions on a daily basis, including those you write about so just stick to the topic and avoid using PPRuNe as a means of spouting rubbish.

AA&R mods

Limburg
25th Feb 2010, 09:22
New Reus-Maastricht route announced today, starting 21st of May and 3x weekly.
Reus expansion or just a shift of routes?

HH6702
25th Feb 2010, 11:18
Ncl to oslo also

Seljuk22
25th Feb 2010, 12:35
All together 6 new routes to Greece

25th May: Weeze-Trieste 3 weekly + Trapani-Ancona 3 weekly
25th June: Malaga-Haugesund 2 weekly

FR-
25th Feb 2010, 12:38
About time Ryanair went into Greece :D

dwlpl
25th Feb 2010, 14:17
New Ryanair Liverpool route to Szczecin announced.

Media Centre | Press Releases | Ryanair’s new flight to Poland sees JLA become joint top UK airport for Polish destinations (http://www.liverpoolairport.com/press-office/ryanair-s-new-flight-to-poland-sees-jla-become-joint-top-uk-airport-for-polish-destinations.html)

SteveRandall
25th Feb 2010, 15:50
Um! you were on that flight?

We flew around Lanzarote for 50min to see if the weather changed so we could land, it did not, so we headed of to Grand Canary where we landed and re-fulled. After another 40min on the runway we took off for Lanzarote to try and land, again the weather was too bad.

So we landed at Fuerteventura at 21.40. To be told by the captain "You will have to disembark because Ryanair contracts ends here"
We did not get any further help by Ryanair ..

We asked if Ryanair would fly us to Lanzarote the next day, but the Captain said they had to go back to Bristol empty.
We have since found herd they went back to Lanzarote to pick up passengers to take back to Bristol.
We had to find our own hotel and taxi to get there. The next day after another taxi ride we managed to get the ferry to Lanzarote..
This was our first and last time using Ryanair :ugh:

Skipness One Echo
25th Feb 2010, 16:14
They tried pretty hard mate. Ryanair won't put you up in a hotel or pay hotel rates for the crew who have a duty elsewhere the next day. Also the aircraft needs to be somewhere early doors the next day as well.

Low prices demand high-utilisation and low cost base. Mate you got what you paid for. Stop whinging. Unless you have been on another planet, you knew the score when you booked. I fly with them a lot but I know that one day they may well dump me somewhere I will need some serious cash to get home or to my destination. That's the grown up real world price of 1p fares.

Charlie Roy
25th Feb 2010, 17:22
About time Ryanair went into Greece

Indeed, great to see the Greek destinations now on the route map.
PS - When they colour in Greece, they might colour out Slovenia and Switzerland ;)

apaul
25th Feb 2010, 18:25
Skipness you are going on about whinging and knowing the score when you do not appear the score yourself. The EU travel directive applies to Ryanair as much as any other airline. The relevant part of the Air Travel Users Council states: 'If your flight is diverted, the airline must get you to the destination airport on your reservation - at no extra cost to you. Sometimes the airline may arrange buses or taxis. Or it may ask you to make your own transport arrangements and send in the receipt to be reimbursed. The AUC would prefer that passengers were not asked to make the initial outlay in this way, but accepts that it may sometimes be unavoidable. The important point is that it should, in the end, not cost you any extra to get to your destination. However, if the airline arranges a bus and you choose to go by other means you will struggle to get the airline to reimburse you.' The captain certainly should not have made an announcement that Ryanair had no further obligations on landing at FUE as that is directly against the EU air travel directive.

lplsprog
25th Feb 2010, 20:12
The Canary Islands are not part of the EU, does it apply?:confused:

Charlie Roy
25th Feb 2010, 20:38
The Canary Islands are not part of the EU, does it apply?

The directive applies to all flights that either begin or end in an EU country. So yes it applies. Anyway the islands are politically within the EU and subject to all EU law except that pertaining to customs.

eu01
25th Feb 2010, 20:38
As a part of Spain, the Canaries are also part of the European Union, don't you think?

lplsprog
25th Feb 2010, 21:03
No, same as the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles are not part of the EU.

RWY26
25th Feb 2010, 21:37
According Belgian newspapers Ryanair will restart operations out of Ostend-Bruges. Malaga and Girona will be served three times a week from October or November on. Ryanair wanted Malaga and Faro, the city council of Bruges and tourism officials wanted Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester, the compromise was Malaga and Girona.

WallyWumpus
25th Feb 2010, 22:47
Steve,

Sounds like they did all they could, on the day, to get you there. My understanding is that RYR agreed to pay for a ferry to transfer the pax the following morning, which should satisfy your request to be transported to final destination.

Wally.

LPFR
26th Feb 2010, 00:18
Faro-Hamburg (Lübeck) to be announced soon?
Already on the website but no information about frequency or anything.

Wellington Bomber
26th Feb 2010, 06:22
Steve Randall

Once too many, you have heard about Ryanair before, you deserve what you got

Sorry!

EuroWings
26th Feb 2010, 09:37
NCL - RYG is a very interesting route for FR, perhaps signalling a few more destinations from NCL. With RYG actually being a reasonable distance from Oslo city, it actually seems a viable route for FR! Those aircraft have to go somewhere :ok:

At last, GREECE:D:D It's such a lucrative market with many small airports VERY suitable for an FR seasonal low-frequency operation (JMK, EFL e.t.c)

The next day after another taxi ride we managed to get the ferry to Lanzarote..
This was our first and last time using Ryanair

They will have fulfilled their contract with you as they have got you to your destination and reimbursed you for any costs incurred. Remember Ryanair are a budget airline and not a tour company, if you want total security where you'll be escorted you should book an inclusive tour with Thomson, Thomas Cook, Cosmos e.t.c.

frfly
26th Feb 2010, 10:42
Regarding the Canary Islands this again is poor research by the media. Passengers are entitled to the right to care. All handling agents are made aware of this. If onward travel is not provided by the airline then passengers are to make their own arrangements, keep all their receipts and send them into Ryanair where the cost endured will be refunded. All of these expenses have to be within reason to the cost of the ticket, ie 3 star not 5 star accommodation if that is needed etc.

I agree it isnt the best option, but it is the option offered by Ryanair. Passengers are never told thats the end of the line in a wrong destination. This is poor communication by the handling agent to passengers of the policy - they should be fully aware of this.

Jippie
26th Feb 2010, 11:12
According to this article(dutch) (http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/binnenland/Ryanair_wil_terug_naar_Oostende.8301097-438.art).
Ryanair wants/gets a subsidy of €1.147.260 (over 3 years) for the route from Gerona to Oostende.

SteveRandall
26th Feb 2010, 12:41
Yes I know there low cost, but my gripe is there attitude to there customers who pay there wages and keep them in business, To say to us Ryanair contracts ends here! when we are not even on the right island is very poor.

Charlie Roy
26th Feb 2010, 13:14
Ryanair wants/gets a subsidy of €1.147.260 (over 3 years) for the route from Gerona to Oostende.

Apparently the regional officials think a route from Gerona to Ostend is going to bring a flood of Catalonian tourists to Bruges (and Ostend).
The routes from Gerona and Malaga are in any case likely to create some jobs (at the airport for example), and having the word Bruges on the Ryanair route map is promotion in itself. Some German guy checking out the routes from Hahn for a citytrip, notices the Ostend/Bruges dot and considers "hey maybe I could drive there for a break"... Londoners reading the inflight magazine and seeing Bruges in the destination guide may think "Oh, it might be nice to go visit Bruges one day by ferry/eurostar"... etc.

Het Nieuwsblad - Gemeente Oostende: Ryanair keert terug naar luchthaven Oostende (http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail.aspx?articleID=IV2MMPKR)

james170969
26th Feb 2010, 14:45
I wonder if Ryanair and Ostend Airport have made up. Didn't they have a row about charges that Ryanair didn't pay to Ostend Airport a few years ago when they flew from Stansted?

OltonPete
26th Feb 2010, 16:35
Something to get your teeth into (hope the link opens).

News : Winner of ?10,000 Ryanair scratch card eats winning ticket (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/winner-of-10000-euro-ryanair-scratch-card-eats-winning-ticket)

I found it funny but no doubt the PC brigade will say that it is in poor taste (yes that is a pun)!!!!

However I wonder if any poetic licence has been taken here??????

Pete

west lakes
26th Feb 2010, 16:40
Pete

It is absolutely true, I knew about it yesterday evening

http://www.pprune.org/5536042-post500.html

The only bit of spin is the reference to on-board snacks

FlyboyUK
27th Feb 2010, 14:29
I can confirm it is true, it was my flight. Passengers never cease to amaze me:ok:

james170969
27th Feb 2010, 15:04
"According Belgian newspapers Ryanair will restart operations out of Ostend-Bruges. Malaga and Girona will be served three times a week from October or November on. Ryanair wanted Malaga and Faro, the city council of Bruges and tourism officials wanted Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester, the compromise was Malaga and Girona."

What do you think are the chances that the city council and tourism officials will get what they want and Ryanair will fly to Glasgow Prestwick, Liverpool and Manchester? I go to Ostend several times a year (my next trip there is next Sunday). The trek from Charleroi can be a bit tiring at times.

Binder
27th Feb 2010, 15:36
Passenger eats winning ticket!

It serves to illustrate that flying is too cheap and that some low co pax are stupid/idiots and shouldn't be anywhere near an aircraft.

Tin hat on...standby for incoming!

Binder

northumberlandairway
27th Feb 2010, 15:52
Binder's right! Whatever made the eejit who won the ticket think that the crew would have 10,000 euros stuffed down their knickers. They barely have change for a ten pound note!

Noxegon
27th Feb 2010, 18:54
Um, does nobody else think that this was all a massive publicity stunt? Seriously, the timing is flawless for the weekend papers...

daz211
27th Feb 2010, 20:02
Erm no !
It might have been more impresive if he had swollowed a car...
What a silly man he neally had enought to buy a cuppa and a sandwich.

FR-
28th Feb 2010, 06:29
No its true, one of my friends was the number one on the flight. We do get a few winners of the 10,000 euro, only last summer someone won it from GRO-EMA.

http://by121w.bay121.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=2&messageId=8e603ef5-55f4-48ac-8fa7-2849b1582815&Aux=44|0|8CBCDC14243ABC0||

Noxegon
28th Feb 2010, 07:04
I still think he may have been paid by Ryanair to discover a winning card and then eat it...

racedo
28th Feb 2010, 12:48
I still think he may have been paid by Ryanair to discover a winning card and then eat it...Yeah of course, fly out to Poland and then have cabin crew specifically planted to sell him just that ticket so he can eat it :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

sky9
28th Feb 2010, 13:17
I'm surprised the crew don't find the winning tickets. A dark cupboard and a bright torch normally shows up the winners with scratch cards.:)

davidjohnson6
28th Feb 2010, 13:32
sky9 - I don't know the rules of Ryanair's scratchards in detail, but for most scratchcards, employees and their relatives both of the company and its suppliers are usually prohibited from any winnings.

Now all you need is to be best mates with (but not related to) a cabin crew member, and negotiate your share of the winnings ! :}

Noxegon
28th Feb 2010, 18:38
Er, why not? Given that FlyBE paid people to fill their DUB-NWI flights see story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/7321306.stm) I don't think it's at all impossible that this guy may have been a plant. As for the scratch card, who's to say he didn't have a winning one ready in his pocket to swap out for whatever one he happened to sell?

As I said, clever PR stunt.

james170969
1st Mar 2010, 14:53
Does anyone know when the Ostend flights will go on sale?

Charlie Roy
1st Mar 2010, 16:18
Does anyone know when the Ostend flights will go on sale?

It's hard to know. As it is, I do not believe that any seats are already on sale for Winter 10/11. I suppose this will happen in the next couple of months.
Whether the Ostend routes will be immediately announced at the time of the winter schedules being made available or will the announcement have to wait for some bigger general Girona / Malaga / Spain announcements remains to be seen.

anna_list
1st Mar 2010, 19:16
Hello,

According to the booking engine, it seems that at the end of March, Ryanair are binning EMA-BZG (was 2x weekly) and reopening BHX-BZG.

BHX-BZG will be 3x weekly this time, after having been 2x weekly from its launch in July 08 to its suspension in October 09. Loads appear to have been strong both from BHX and EMA, although I have no idea about the yields.

This seems a slightly odd move, as does the recent opening and re-opening of a number of other routes from the UK to Poland: At the end of March, Liverpool is getting back previously canned routes to both Lodz and SZZ (SZZ also failed with routes to BHX, BRS, LTN and NRN) and Bristol gets its route to Gdansk back along with a new route to BZG.

Is the UK-Poland market not declining as fast as some would have us believe, or have Ryanair lost the plot completely?

LPFR
2nd Mar 2010, 04:50
It's a known fact that sometimes Ryanair just randomly opens routes and then waits to see if they work.. At the end of the day, they just ensure that the planes (that keep on coming more) are moving around, either full or half empty...
No complains here though. Thanks to that random selection of routes I've discovered some amazing places around Europe :ok:

eu01
2nd Mar 2010, 19:22
In a few days (possibly tomorrow) Ryanair could announce cancellations (removal from the schedules) of some of its flights to Granada - Jaén. The Provincial Government of Granada has recently announced the termination of the cooperation agreement, resulting in discontinuation of the financial incentive (marketing support) to the airline.

sam92
2nd Mar 2010, 21:29
Hi guys ,

I recently heard a rumour that ryanair are planning to suspend all its flights on the edinburgh - bournemouth route, does anyone know if this is true or not ??

Thanks

en2r
3rd Mar 2010, 08:31
Hi guys ,

I recently heard a rumour that ryanair are planning to suspend all its flights on the edinburgh - bournemouth route, does anyone know if this is true or not ??

Thanks
It's more than just a rumour, the route is being axed from the end of this month.

racedo
3rd Mar 2010, 09:53
ASA - ASA Adjudication on easyJet Airline Co Ltd (http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints-and-ASA-action/Adjudications/2010/3/easyJet-Airline-Co-Ltd/TF_ADJ_48184.aspx)

WOW Advertising Standards Agency agree with Ryanair............expect now to see Blue Moon and Flying Pig

Sober Lark
3rd Mar 2010, 10:08
So by the time the recommendation was made the advert would have run its full natural life and achieved what was intended.

boyzinblue
3rd Mar 2010, 12:23
New: Bremen - Berlin twice daily and Bremen - Zadar

apaul
3rd Mar 2010, 13:04
Not sure Bremen-Berlin will do well against the train which is three hours city centre to city centre. It often takes an hour just to get from Schoenefeld to the centre of Berlin.

pee
3rd Mar 2010, 14:43
In Finland Ryanair "proudly announcing" today that due to high demand and success of sells, some flights will be added on the AGP - TMP route.

It's probably much to their surprise that a route between FIN and Spain (with no low-cost links existing so far) could become so popular several months before its starting date. Once again old good Ryanair, so hopelessly unaware of where the real opportunities are to be found.:ugh: So hard to anticipate, really?

GRO, CIA, PSA, SXF etc. ... (guess what I mean)

vkid
3rd Mar 2010, 15:06
Not sure if you can watch this outside of Ireland but here's last nights Primetime interview report on the Hangar 6 episode, a story that keeps on going..Hilarious stuff.

RT Player: Catch up with your favourite TV programmes online (http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1067768)

Seljuk22
3rd Mar 2010, 15:53
BRE-SXF 12 weekly from 11th May + BRE-ZAD 2 weekly from 2nd June.
Aktuelle Nachrichten : Ab Mai 2010 nach Berlin und Zadar (http://www.ryanair.com/de/nachrichten/ab-mai-2010-nach-berlin-und-zadar)

FAO and AGP will see one more a/c during July/August used for increasing existing routes.
Novidades : Ryanair celebra grande volume de reservas nos voos da base de Faro (http://www.ryanair.com/pt/novidades/ryanair-celebra-grande-volume-de-reservas-nos-voos-da-base-de-faro)
Últimas novedades : Ryanair Aumenta sus Frecuencias en Málaga Durante el Verano (http://www.ryanair.com/es/novedades/ryanair-aumenta-sus-frecuencias-en-malaga-durante-el-verano)

FR will give up 4 routes to/from Granada to GRO, STN, LPL and MAD by 4th May.
Últimas novedades : Ryanair Cancela 4 de sus 6 Rutas en Granada (http://www.ryanair.com/es/novedades/ryanair-cancela-4-de-sus-6-rutas-en-granada)

Traffic:
passengers: 4.37 mln +6%
load factor: 75% -3pp

davidjohnson6
4th Mar 2010, 00:53
Anyone know the reason for Angouleme being dropped ?
Poor loads, the local Govt declining to provide the marketing support that FR wants, a combination of the two, or something else ?

pee
4th Mar 2010, 05:46
Don't know about the loads but thisthe local Govt declining to provide the marketing support that FR wants- is obvious. Do you speak some French? Read here (http://www.sudouest.com/charente/actualite/article/879284/mil/5756064.html).

anna_list
4th Mar 2010, 06:27
Hi,

The flown loads on STN-ANG were pretty decent. 2009 was a big improvement on 2008 (data from CAA):
2009 27,987 pax on 188 flights 79%
2008 24,792 pax on 179 flights 73%

However, loads and passenger numbers on STN-LIG (not that far away) have dropped from 83% in 2007 to 82% in 2008 and 78% in 2009, suggesting that FR may have been doing their favourite trick of competing with themselves and diluting their own loads.

M62
4th Mar 2010, 07:38
First flight booked with Ryanair to Granada, now cancelled. Alternative flights at this point approximately double the price (and they weren't that cheap in the first place).

I won't be back and neither will any of the large group I was travelling with.

ConstantFlyer
4th Mar 2010, 08:25
Not sure Bremen-Berlin will do well against the train which is three hours city centre to city centre. It often takes an hour just to get from Schoenefeld to the centre of Berlin.
Quite right, apaul, if the passenger's destination is central Berlin; however, Schönefeld is also a gateway to other parts of Brandenburg and Saxony, so if they're heading there, it's time saved.

Ryanair's choice of airports has caused much comment in the past; but some passengers' journeys are inevitably going to be easier without a slog into or out of a busy city centre.

anna_list
4th Mar 2010, 08:56
"Ryanair will also operate six new routes between Malta and European destinations where the airline currently does not have a base. The services will start by the summer, pushing the number of Malta routes on the Ryainair network to 18."

timesofmalta.com - Agreement reached on Ryanair base in Malta (http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100304/local/agreement-reached-on-ryainair-base-in-malta)

One of those new routes seems to be MLA - Billund:
Ryanair åbner rute til Malta - TV SYD - TVSyd - Nyheder - Lokal - Billund (http://www.tvsyd.dk/artikel/40879:Ryanair-aabner-rute-til-Malta)

jferreira20
4th Mar 2010, 10:15
Billund, Valencia and Seville are guaranteed.

pee
4th Mar 2010, 10:38
I won't be back and neither will any of the large group I was travelling with.
I'll say what I feel. All what the airline business is about it's providing services to passengers (or transporting goods). Transferring people from A to B, getting some profit out of it - that's it. What it shouldn't be? By no means should it be an instrument of political pressure or a tool to get the own will through. Flying pax versus not flying them as an argument during the negotiations could be acceptable, but only before the release of the schedules. The same feels totally disagreeable at the stage when thousands of passengers have already acquired their tickets. Such a practice only damages the reputation and will have to be paid as decline in yields for the airline itself.

Without any profit for myself, I also used to organize some group tours flying Ryanair. Four different flights, bus- or rail transfers between them, hotels booked in advance and so on. There is still one such a trip coming. The last one. Hopefully FR will not mix all schedules just before we leave. With some good luck it won't happen. But observing how often cancellations and schedule changes happen, I'll not risk any more, it's not worth my nerves. Coming to Stockholm aboard the ship in the morning... oops! The plane scheduled to depart at 11:30 will actually leave earlier. To disembark from the ship while the plane is departing? No, thanks.

tangarizie
4th Mar 2010, 10:43
What about Malta routes to Portugal (OPO or FAO)?

pee
4th Mar 2010, 11:53
@Malta.
The first route from new Malta base will be announced today (they say). Probably MLA - KRK.

@St. Petersburg-West ;)
On the first flight from Lappeenranta to Düsseldorf the vast majority of passengers were Russians (as anticipated).
Source: YLE.fi (http://yle.fi/alueet/etela-karjala/2010/03/ryanairin_lennot_lappeenrannasta_alkavat_1501923.html) (Finnish Radio).

pee
4th Mar 2010, 12:01
KRK and 5 more: Valencia, Bologna, Seville, Billund in Denmark and Marseilles.

Source: Times of Malta (http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100304/local/agreement-reached-on-ryainair-base-in-malta)

Shed-on-a-Pole
4th Mar 2010, 13:09
M62 / pee / All,

Sadly, Ryanair has a history of playing politics with its routes and bases. That is unlikely to change. The company has demonstrated a preference for playing "bullyboy" with airports and regional governments rather than working in partnership with them to build up sustainable and profitable networks. The company's disregard for its own customers' travel plans is legendary. 'Common Sense' seems to be an alien concept at Ryanair; it is simply 'meet our demands' or 'toys out of pram' with them. As you point out, the customers do (eventually) notice. And a sustainable business needs repeat business.

Here in Manchester, Ryanair pulled its network (except for the ultra-profitable DUB operation) in a fit of rage when the airport refused to provide use of its valuable services for less than £3 per passenger journey. A reasonable sum for use of facilities requiring millions to run each year, and one which passengers would not baulk at paying as part of their fare. Warning to Ryanair: in these tougher economic times you may run out of airports and local governments willing to operate as a charity.

I am sure that there remain afew customers who will dutifully follow Ryanair to a distant field of its choosing when these games are played. But many will not. When you abandon a large conurbation on a whim you abandon many customers too, and their negative impressions are ingrained (and communicated to others) for the long term. Ryanair's run of success through its growing years has allowed hubris to build, but ultimately customer disaffection (loathing?) will eat away at the business. Customers don't just forget and move on. They learn - and avoid businesses which have let them down in the past. A mature company increasingly NEEDS a positive relationship with its customer base.

In my case, I do not have an agenda against Ryanair or any other no-frills operator. (Surprised?!!!). On the contrary, it frustrates me to see a potentially great business which is prepared to jeopardize its whole future by stitching up its customers, and, publicly slagging off its industry partners to the media. Alienating customers, p*ss*ng off airport operators, squashing essential suppliers, bullying local authority officials ... a business which does this will eventually see the backlash impact its bottom line (and the share price). Once those city boys turn against you - watch out! Especially if your company has no friends left amongst its industry partners.

Returning to the case of Ryanair specifically, I actually believe that fundamentally it is a good business, but one which is making major blunders which will return to haunt it in the future. The whole 'hardman' act and "we're just a bunch of Paddies and we don't care" routine works fine for a youthful company in its growth phase. But Ryanair is a mature business now. It must recognize the need to realign its priorities. Build loyalty with the regular customers - don't abandon them, cancel their bookings, or enrage them with hefty charges disguised as penalties for minor infringements (online check-in errors etc). Develop a positive relationship with airport and ground-handling partners - acknowledge that their businesses need to pay their way too. There is a finite number of airports in Europe - and they are all now well aware of Ryanair's hardball reputation. How long can they afford to offer free service? Regional Governments across Europe are in fiscal crisis - sweetheart grants for airlines and subsidies for basket-case airports will become impossible to justify to voters whilst core local authority services are facing the axe. Tourist Authorities will be cut back or scrapped entirely. Wake up, Ryanair! The free ride is coming to an end ... you are going to start needing some friends!

Speaking personally, I am still prepared to book with Ryanair if they offer me a service which is cost-effective and convenient for my travel plans. Unfortunately (for Ryanair's bookings), I am in Manchester - one of the conurbations which Ryanair abandoned because it failed to 'persuade' the airport with its "offer which we could refuse". As a result, my own 27 current flight bookings at the time of writing include NO sectors operated by Ryanair. In the months leading up to Ryanair's tantrum at MAN, I flew 22 sectors with them. I am the epitome of Ryanair's problem going forward. I am one of those would-be customers left marooned by Ryanair's preference for playing politics with airports rather than developing a mutually beneficial relationship with customers. No service? No booking!

Ryanair may kid themselves that their abandoned customers will obediently follow them to the inconvenient airstrip fifty miles away. Some will - if the deal is amazingly cheap (margins, anyone?). Many won't. I would happily pay MAN's £3 passenger charge to use its facilities ... in fact, I am doing so by making bookings with Ryanair's competitors who still offer me a convenient service from there. What I will not do is waste my day traveling to Ryanair's favoured 'airport-du-jour', paying avoidable fares, charges and hotels along the way (alot more than £3!) to make the whole thing work. Many others think as I do.

It is far easier for a business to retain an existing customer than attract a new one (if it offers a positive experience). With money tight in both the public and private sectors, a wise business will take customer retention to heart. Take a look, Ryanair. Read the comments of M62, pee, those on customer review sites. What is the message? Never again? Can't trust them not to change things? They ripped me off 'cos my boarding pass wouldn't print? Is this the path to customer loyalty? Perhaps the time has come to make the choice between endearing yourselves with your clients, or facing a slow decline by a thousand cuts.

Are you going to make yourself indispensable to customers, or irrelevant to customers? [In the case of my own example, flying from MAN or from some place miles away].

Good luck with that decision.

SHED.

pee
4th Mar 2010, 13:24
Shed,

Couldn't agree more.

mickyman
4th Mar 2010, 13:45
SHED

Having read your last post I agree with most of it but for one
niggling thought....

Why would a large airline such as Ryanair have such a horrid
attitude towards its beautiful customers?

MM

Shed-on-a-Pole
4th Mar 2010, 14:13
Mickyman -

Ryanair can't choose its beautiful customers ... but its beautiful customers CAN choose another airline! Large airline or not, don't be horrid to those who pay the wages.

CHEERS.

mickyman
4th Mar 2010, 15:09
SHED

Agreed .....but why would they behave in such a way ??

MM

Shed-on-a-Pole
4th Mar 2010, 16:36
mickyman -

Not being a Ryanair insider, I can only speculate that the company values a penny today more highly than a pound tomorrow. Hit the customer for a misprinted boarding card - £40 in the kitty today, but the customer never rebooks. £40 for the familys' misprinted boarding cards ... £40 multiplied by 'X' persons today, but the family never rebooks. And all their friends get to hear about it, so they don't book either. [I stand to be corrected on the £40 figure, but I think this is the current penalty charge. The principle applies either way].

Then there are all the other hidden penalties and charges, swingeing fees (per person) for using a debit card on a single booking (real transaction costs miniscule). And the fee for checking yourself in using your own time, computer and ink. There are so many aspects of the Ryanair experience which hack customers off. And that is assuming that the booking is not then abruptly changed or cancelled by the airline. Even allowing for the fact that the final fare paid may be very reasonable all considered (and often is), the customer still *feels* mugged and aggrieved.

As you say, why would they behave in such a way? But they do. And in the long term it will be retrospectively identified as having been poor business practice. The marked downturn in the aviation industry is not the result of economic problems alone; it is also a consequence of customers losing the desire to travel on discretionary vacations by air, because the experience has become stressful and unappealing. Customers - having been fleeced at the airport / abandoned / cancelled feel no urgency to rebook for another dose of this discretionary product. The excitement and allure of air travel has evaporated. It has been replaced by apprehension and dread. Ryanair has been a primary culprit in effecting this change.

If you wish to make money by selling leisure travel, then you are in the business of selling DREAMS. Deliver a nightmare, kiss your future business goodbye. Why would they do it? Why do they do it? Why indeed!

A penny gained today, a pound lost tomorrow.

SHED.

befree
4th Mar 2010, 18:28
today we have pax stats our for easyjet for feb 2010. They are adding 12.3% pax in feb when ryanair added 5.8%.

I know a few people who have been upset by something ryanair have charged them or dropped ther flight. They do tell as many people as they can. Everytime ryanair flece someone they lose lots of possible future paxs. once that did not matter as there was a big market to expand into.

At some point soon ryanair will have a month of negative growth.

mickyman
4th Mar 2010, 18:30
Shed

It does seem non-sensical of an airline to behave in such a way,
perhaps the decline in passenger numbers is just around the corner?

MM


(PS) Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to comparable airlines
by passenger numbers flown given that Ryanair moved 60m last time
round - thanks. MM

Going loco
4th Mar 2010, 19:22
Shed - Ryanair were good enough for you when they were at MAN (22 sectors you say) and by your own admission, you'd book again if the price is right and it operates from MAN. In otherwords, all this is really about you being chessed off about them pulling services from your own personal favourite and showing committment to a regional rival. Hardly makes them unique in the airline business and I'm pretty sure the good people of Liverpool, Leeds or whereever could make many a similar claim about business that has gone the other way.
I wonder if you know how much of MAN's passenger traffic comes from a radius greater than the 50 miles you won't travel? I also wonder if you see the irony of the fact that you are able to book 27 flights from MAN in part because consumers behave in exactly the opposite way to you in response to airlines doing exactly the same thing Ryanair are doing (albeit less publically, but doing it nonetheless).

Shed-on-a-Pole
4th Mar 2010, 20:32
Going Loco,

Your reasoning is illogical. You argue a cause which I have not challenged. My last post was made in response to a direct question which I have answered as requested. I openly acknowledge in my postings that I WOULD book Ryanair again if they offered me a useful product (which, right now, they don't). The Ryanair tricks which I mentioned (in response to the question "why would they do it?") are well known to me, so I know how to avoid the pitfalls. But many potential customers do get caught out, and whether you like it or not, do adjust their future purchases accordingly. With regard to traveling to other more distant airports, it is exactly as I stated in my earlier post: some customers do, many do not. It is a personal choice. I respect that. But there are considerable extra costs to account for if you do that, not only financial but also the value of elapsed time (even if you wish to calculate that merely at minimum wage rates, which I do not). You seem to have a problem with this? Is money no object for you and your time valueless? Well, good for you!

With regard to Ryanair, I have expressed my belief that they are fundamentally a good business (in my 14:09 post), but expressed my frustration that their strategy of short-term exploitation of customers and suppliers will damage the business in the longer term. Note my emphasis here is that I do not wish to see the business damaged, I simply point out that such is the reality.

I have not expressed any opinion about the decisions of other customers to travel 'more than 50 miles', or to Leeds, or to Liverpool, or to Manchester (as appropriate). This is a matter of individual choice as far as I am concerned. (Though you seem hot under the collar about it - take a chill-pill). But I will - and do - point out the additional costs of traveling to a more distant airport. These are a fact. And for me personally, there is no comparison between the £3 passenger charge at Manchester versus the cost of reaching an airport 50 miles away for an 06:30 departure. Unlike some, I do not choose my airport/airline like a football team. I choose what is cost-effective and convenient for my journey. In my case, that is usually Manchester. Sorry if you don't like it. Well actually, I'm not sorry at all. I really couldn't care less what YOU think about MY travel choices. But an airline business would be well advised to take note of the public's travel preferences if it cares about future prosperity.

By the way, what does "chessed off" mean? I probably am - never liked the game much!

SHED.

OltonPete
4th Mar 2010, 22:08
Summer 2010 schedule seems finalised for the based aircraft after three
of the four weekly Girona flights changed to BHX based aircraft from 5/5/10.

Four based as in 2009 about 10 less flights per week on these and over 15
less away based aircraft a week. Schedule about 20% down with 11 routes gone with five added all operated by Monarch.

Pete

Bournemouth Air
5th Mar 2010, 03:49
Re Bournemouth Edinborough

Ryanair had recently dropped Bournemouth to Prestwick and EDI but now you can fly with Flybe Bournemouth to EDI (via Manchester) as sure it will be a very positive move by Flybe,

Flybe just need to cover the other good routes Ryanair have pulled out off from Bournemouth

mickyman
5th Mar 2010, 08:55
Shed

Can you give us all a clue as to which airline you
run as you seem to know what is best for success.

cheers,

MM

Shed-on-a-Pole
5th Mar 2010, 09:38
mickyman -

I know that taking good care of your customers is crucial to success in any business. It is far easier to retain an existing customer than to attract a new one. In business, you will learn this on day one.

Is this concept a little too difficult for you?

SHED.

wowzz
5th Mar 2010, 11:00
Completely agree with you - I am not sure why others are trying to pick holes in what is a very reasoned post.
I got 'shafted' once by Ryanair - I will never fly with them again and have told anyone who cares to listen exactly why. I now only use Ezy, even if more expensive than Ryanair [not often when all the Ryanair costs are taken into account] so Ryanair have 'lost' my custom for 10 flights a year for the last 4 years, and [hopefully] the next 20 years, making a total of over 200 'lost' flights.

mickyman
5th Mar 2010, 13:37
Shed

60m per anum - what % complain ?

MM

Noxegon
5th Mar 2010, 14:21
MM - you're like a stuck record.

McDonalds sell 550 million Big Macs every year. Does this make them the last word in cuisine? I think not.

Shed - superb post, well done.

Shed-on-a-Pole
5th Mar 2010, 14:30
mickyman,

I have answered your recent questions fully and in good faith and have shown patience in so doing, as I am well aware of your track record of mischief on these boards. However, if you believe you are going to draw me into a petty tit-for-tat slanging match just because you dislike my responses, then you are mistaken.

In accordance with your usual pattern of baiting any contributor who posts an item which you perceive to be critical of Ryanair or Liverpool Airport, you are again indulging in gamesmanship. Do enjoy yourself - I have better things to do. But be assured that you will not succeed in driving me off these discussion threads. I shall post whenever I am minded to do so regardless of your crude attempts at intimidation. I would hope that others will also stand firm against your predictable tactics.

Thankyou to both 'wowzz' and 'no slot' for your responses. wowzz's posting is another illustration of the point I have been making regarding Ryanair's uncanny ability to alienate those who could have become regular customers.

SHED.

P.S. Thankyou also to Noxegon whose posting appeared whilst I was composing this.

allanmack
5th Mar 2010, 16:16
Bored at STN due early arrival so just added up my SLF flights since the start of the year and credit where credit is due:

FR 4 X PIK - STN -PIK

BE 3 X GLA - BHX - GLA
2 X GLA - BHD - GLA
1 X GLA - CWL - GLA
1 X GLA - MAN - GLA

EZY 2 X GLA - BRS - GLA
1 X GLA - BFS - GLA

BA 5 X GLA - LHR - GLA

BMI 2 X GLA - LHR - GLA

BMIBaby 1 x GLA - EMA - GLA

Best on time - FR (Followed by EZY)
Worst - BE

Best Value for Money - FR (Followed by EZY)
Worst - BMI

Most Courteous Crew - BE (Not much between them all to be fair)
Worst - BA

Best Aircraft - BE EMB195
Worst - BMIBaby 737

Going loco
5th Mar 2010, 16:38
Shed - let's start over. Your view is that the market as a whole will pay a premium for convenience - fly me from my local airport and I'll pick up the extra cost. My view from the industry is that Ryanair are not alone in seeing things differently - consumers with access to competing airports in a defined market are on average more sensitive to seat price than choice of airport. I accept and respect that you as an individual would pay more for convenience and for what it's worth, so would I. But the market as a whole behaves differently and it seems this applies as much in Poland, Italy, Germany as it does the UK.

The reference to your own local market in the North is make the point that the make up of passengers and routes between the competing airports is evidence that Ryanair aren't the only ones guilty of operating in the interests of their own bottom line ahead of passenger convenience. Wouldn't there be gains and losses at all airports in that market if the industry put their aircraft closest to the point of passenger origin or destination?

mickyman
5th Mar 2010, 18:54
Shed

As I have written -I agree with your logic but this airline
defies that logic when you look at their results.
Therefore passengers can only be using them because they
offer a service that is acceptable - is this a wrong
conclusion? or not the one that fits your ideas ??

As to 'baiting' you - I reject this on the grounds that I am
just asking questions that may offer some facts that do not
support your argument-is that not allowed?If you pontificate
be prepared for contension on a semi-public forum like this
- is that wrong -that is all.

Noxegon

Your McDonalds reference - they serve their market -
as do Ryanair.Quality is not everything to all.

MM

Shed-on-a-Pole
5th Mar 2010, 19:15
Going Loco -

Thankyou for your response. Starting over is fine by me.

Let me address your points in order:

"Your view is that the market as a whole will pay a premium for convenience."

No, this is actually not my view at all. I believe that the phrase I used in an earlier posting was: "Afew will [follow Ryanair to another airport] but many will not." This reflects my true opinion of the situation. I do not accept that there is a "one size fits all" answer; every travel decision made is unique to one customer's priorities. Some people will pay a premium for convenience, others will not. It is a diverse and free market of individuals out there, to generalize about the behaviour of the market as a whole is hazardous.

"Fly me from my local airport and I'll pick up the extra cost."

My own policy is to assess the cost of a journey in its entirety rather than the airfare element in isolation. Hence I factor in the cost of reaching the airport(s) competing for my booking (public transport fares / taxis / car parking etc), the value of time expended in so doing, and incidental costs such as hotel accommodation or meals away from home. In my case, a higher headline airfare from Manchester Airport often wins the day overall because my costs to reach there are low. For other customers this same calculation will influence their purchasing decision differently based on their own circumstances. They may live much closer to the alternative airport than I do; they may receive discounted travel on public transport; they may achieve a better deal on car parking. Again, every decision will be individual. No one size fits all.

"... in a defined market."

The concept of competing airports' catchment areas being a 'defined market' is one which I wholeheartedly reject. If you believe that it is possible to predict the booking patterns of air travelers based on a narrow set of criteria, prepare to be surprised. Again, we return to the point that each traveler's decision is made in response to his/her own priorities and circumstances. In reality, no airport has a defined catchment area. A single customer who may use Manchester for flights to Philadelphia may still choose Leeds-Bradford for a flight to Dublin. Neither decision is necessarily illogical. Another customer may choose a long road journey to Stansted if they source a particularly cheap deal befitting a stag-do (for example). Others will pay whatever it takes to fly from the airport nearby. Catchment areas require detailed study on a route-by-route basis if you wish to understand them more fully, and even then they are a moving target. The best one can hope for is to model the likely behaviour of the majority of a group which is deemed to comprise 'the market' for a particular service. But even then, what exactly constitutes 'the market'? Remember also that customers may actually be in the market for "a weekend away" rather than "a return airfare to Marseilles". Hence, when Ryanair's MAN-MRS offering is withdrawn, the selected alternative could actually be Manchester-Rome with Jet2. Complicated, eh? Mister Market is full of surprises!

"The market as a whole behaves differently"

The market as a whole is the sum of many individuals each making the purchasing decision which best suits them. If two or more alternatives are competing for the customers' business, expect a mixed outcome.

"Ryanair aren't the only ones guilty of operating in the interests of their own bottom line."

As a rule, agreed, absolutely. And guilt needn't come into it. I expect every business to operate in the interests of its bottom line as a matter of course. Where confusion may have arisen with regards to my view on this particular issue relates to a point in my post of 14:09 yesterday. My contention is that Ryanair's specific decision to abandon nine Manchester routes was nothing to do with the bottom line. They were enraged that MAG would not give them something for nothing and pulled out in a knee-jerk reaction. I suggest that attention to the bottom line was cast aside in favour of making a point (give us a free ride or else?!!!). This particular decision was based on corporate politics, not economics. Accordingly, my view is that this decision was detrimental to the interests of Ryanair shareholders. MAG's [very generous] proposed service charge of around £3 per passenger journey could have been incorporated into fares with minimal resistance from consumers. Instead, Ryanair wrote off the investment made to date in building up those routes, disrupted many passenger journeys by canceling bookings, and forfeited customer goodwill in a rather large market. Many regular Ryanair customers such as myself are now cut off from convenient access to the wider Ryanair network (Dublin excepted) and as such represent a lost opportunity to the business. Those individuals who do place a premium on use of a convenient airport (as I do) are often the most frequent flyers.

"Wouldn't there be gains and losses at all airports in that market if the industry put their aircraft closest to the point of passenger origin or destination?"

The obvious answer here is YES, but let me be clear that I have never advocated a contrary view. The posting which spawned this discussion related to very specific actions by Ryanair in its relationships with assorted airport operators; it is a quite different argument with nuances well beyond geographical location. As a general observation, let me confirm that I am very happy for all airports to offer whatever air services they are capable of sustaining without public subsidy; they all provide employment and pay taxes to the exchequer after all. However, I do oppose measures which distort the market at taxpayer expense to play off one airport against another (as is common on the continent). This is ultimately a zero-sum game at the expense of the public purse. I realize and respect that some readers will disagree with this in principle, but my own view is as stated.

I hope you have found my answers helpful and thank you for your interest.

Cheers, SHED.

wowzz
5th Mar 2010, 21:19
I must be one of many who are getting tired of your un-questioning loyalty to Ryanair. I, along with many others are in the fortunate position of being able to choose between a number of carriers flying between here in Southern Spain and the UK. The 'occasional' traveller will choose Ryanair because of the low-cost entry-point fare - the serious regular traveller [lets say 10+sectors per year] will go elsewhere. In the long run the serious pax are of the most interest to any business, especially as they will be prepared to pay a higher fare for a more professional service.

Cymmon
5th Mar 2010, 21:47
I travel regularly between South Yorkshire and Lanzarote. I always check Leeds/Bradford, East MIdlands, Manchester and Liverpool.
Invariably, due to flight times, need of a hotel, travel costs etc then Manchester wins the day.

I can more often than not travel with Monarch (paying for extra legroom) from Manchester with the baggage I need than I can by using Ryanair (East Mids/Liverpool) and Jet2 (Leeds/Manchester) at a cheaper price! etc.

Strange that lo-cost seem to be losing to higher-cost airlines offering extra legroom, decent flight times and good customer service........

As a friend of mine flying into Lanzarote was left to fend for himself in Fuerteventura (3 buses, a ferry and a taxi to get to me, 6 hrs minimum) by a certain Lo-cost then I tend to have a slight opinion on customer service.

MUFC_fan
6th Mar 2010, 23:43
I know that MOL is now focusing on making money for their shareholders opposed for growth, but I ask a question on behalf of hundreds of thousands of bargain hunters:

Will Ryanair ever offer their 'free' flights ever again?

mickyman
7th Mar 2010, 00:55
wowzz

I have no loyalty to Ryanair - I just prefer facts
that fly in the face of some posters reasoned efforts.

MM

Quality is not everything to all - re:60m.

daz211
7th Mar 2010, 14:08
Just got back from my flight with Ryanair STN-LPA-STN I was very happy with both flights. We arrived on-time after a very good flight the out-bound flight was full the crew very friendly and the drinks trolly was up and down the isle more times than i have seen on any charter flight, The return flight was also on-time which was very nice to see on the departure boards next to TOM LGW,MAN flights showing delayed, again the flight was full, it was interesting to see how many Americans and Canadians were on the flights. I was talking to many people on the flight who thought is was amazing the price they payed for the flights ranging from £65 rtn up to £120 rtn, now I like Gran canaria and go about 3-4 times a year and the price i am use to paying is about £200-£250 rtn so Ryanair is the way I will be going from now on and just to add the A/C both our and rtn passengers were able to use mobile phones i did not here anyone making a call so all the fuss that was made months ago on here about people not using Ryanair because of the introduction of mobile use on board was not worth the time that was taken in shouting so loudly about it.

We done Ryanair for this route, winter sun all the way 26c was a very nice escape from the UK with ice, slush, sleet and snow however it was a shock landing at STN -4.

ericlday
7th Mar 2010, 14:48
We are returning to Ltn from Tfs on 1/5 with Ryanair, having deserted ZB for a pre midnight arrival and an inexpensive flight (almost half ZB price on like for like basis)

Based
8th Mar 2010, 18:30
Shed-on-a-Pole,

While I can see some merits in your arguments from a general point of view, I can't say the same about the details. For example, you say that to generalise about the behaviour of the market as a whole is hazardous, yet you are happy to claim that only a few will follow Ryanair to another airport, many will not!

Beyond nitpicking, with regards to your specific gripe of their reductions at Manchester, I actually think you might have fallen into the trap of believing some of the Ryanair 'public slagging' you love to hate. The continuation of the DUB-MAN route is all that needs to be said in response to your 'knee-jerk reaction' belief. I'm confident that if any of the other routes were performing in line with the DUB-MAN one, you'd still be able to book a ticket for it today. Announcing the switching of the routes to other low cost airports was largely Ryanair spin in relation to marginal routes - try booking a Ryanair flight from Liverpool, East Midlands or Leeds to Charleroi, Cagliari, Hahn, Marseille or Weeze right now and see how far you get!

Your 'corporate politics, not economics' comment is interesting. What percentage of global business do you genuinely believe is based on pure economics and not corporate politics? Very little I'd wager.

You say that there’s a finite amount of airports in Europe but there’s also a finite amount of Ryanair aircraft – comments such as ‘regular Ryanair customers such as myself are now cut off from convenient access to the wider Ryanair network (Dublin excepted) and as such represent a lost opportunity to the business’ would be 100% valid if Ryanair had an infinite supply of planes but given that they don’t, why shouldn’t they focus on the locations that currently give them the best returns (something generally not viewed as being detrimental to the interests of shareholders)? Don’t forget as things stand, the Ryanair as we know it has limited expansion opportunities available anyway given that they are fast approaching their planned total of 299 aircraft with no orders beyond 2013.

Skipness One Echo
8th Mar 2010, 21:57
I have no loyalty to Ryanair - I just prefer facts

Bless you mickeyman. I wonder if you have any idea how that reads to some of us who have read all your love letters to Ryanair.

Shed-on-a-Pole
9th Mar 2010, 02:16
Hi BASED,

Thankyou for your comments and observations. Let me reply to some of your points:

In your first paragraph, you write that I am "happy to claim that only a few will follow Ryanair to another airport". I must point out that this wording is your own, not mine. I said no such thing. If you re-read my posting No.921 the very clear message is that the market is made up of many individuals who each make the decision which best suits their own circumstances. I did say that "many will not [follow Ryanair to another airport]", but in this case 'many' is used to indicate a significant number of customers (I did not anticipate your forensic analysis of my wording). I never suggested that "few" would [follow Ryanair elsewhere]. Think of it as "some will, some won't" if you want the point rephrased. Since the whole essence of the posting was about the individuality of travel decisions, I am surprised that you accuse me of generalisation in this instance. I have to agree that you were nitpicking in trying to make a point out of this!

"You have fallen in to the trap of believing some of the Ryanair 'public slagging' you love to hate." Well, in that case I must have "fallen into the trap" of believing my very reliable cousins who were caught out with the boarding card issue on a recent DUB-MAN sector for a family funeral. I have also "fallen into the trap" of believing close friends who have told me exactly why they never intend to book with Ryanair again. However, I do reconfirm that I myself would use Ryanair again should they offer me a service which matches my travel requirements. I have also made it quite clear in my previous postings that I do not have a 'downer' on Ryanair as a whole, but I do point out opportunities for the company to improve itself. A successful company will always strive to improve itself and I wish to see Ryanair optimize its success. The door should always be left open for constructive criticism from customers and shareholders of any company which values its future.

"The continuation of the DUB-MAN route is all that needs to be said in response to your kneejerk reaction belief." Erm ... may I refer you to the second paragraph, first line of my posting No.900? I think you will find that I myself raised the point regarding the profitability of that route ... I believe my description was "ultra profitable". So if you have doubts, let me be quite clear about this. My understanding is that DUB-MAN is an especially profitable route for Ryanair. I seem to recall it being listed as one of the top performers in a Ryanair annual report. I'm not surprised in the least that they didn't drop it (and I thought readers would appreciate my view on this from the comments in posting No.900). I don't for a moment suggest that the other nine MAN routes came close to the performance of this one - but then again, that is true of most other routes across the entire Ryanair network. However, I do stand by my contention that the hasty decision to axe those nine routes was indeed a kneejerk reaction. Furthermore, I did not suggest that these routes had already reached profitability/maturity/success (as they had been operating for a relatively short period of time). I'm sure I don't have to explain to you that any new route has to be built up ... few are instantly profitable straight from inception.

"What percentage of global business do you genuinely believe is based on pure economics and not corporate politics? Very little I'd wager." So let me get this right. You believe that "very little" global business is based on economics??? We will have to disagree on that one, I'm afraid! I acknowledge that corporate politics play a role, but I think you will find that economics is pretty crucial in most business plans.

"If Ryanair had an infinite supply of planes ..." Come off it, now. Nowhere have I remotely suggested that the Ryanair fleet is infinite! In fact, I don't believe that I mentioned Ryanair's fleet size at all. As for the company fleet approaching its intended compliment of 299 units, I think all regular readers on here are aware of the reason for no further aircraft orders at present. In short, the manufacturers and Ryanair could not agree mutually acceptable terms. But your claim that Ryanair's finite fleet size invalidates the points I made in my earlier postings is something else upon which we must disagree. Are you seriously suggesting that Ryanair's sudden decision to axe nine MAN routes immediately after a public spat with M.A.G. was actually made because they would only have 299 aircraft to play with? You are right that I believe that decision to have been a kneejerk one, and I absolutely stand by my claim that shareholders are not well served by petulant actions such as this.

With regard to your suggestion that Ryanair should concentrate on locations which give them the best returns ... agreed. Where did I suggest otherwise? I remind you that the nine MAN routes were axed suddenly and simultaneously to make a point. Do you seriously ask readers here to believe that all nine were deemed to be financial lost causes at exactly the same moment, just after Ryanair had its bust-up with M.A.G.? Nice coincidence. If so, we will just have to agree to disagree again and allow other readers to draw their own conclusions.

Thankyou again for your comments and feedback.

SHED.

BILGROM
9th Mar 2010, 03:32
ryanair is opening bases right and left because they have around 42 aircraft grounded this winter, and as life is also dificult for the airports, most of them refuse to park them for free.
Solution? : Open new bases offering free/or almost free flights in return for free parking and very reduced landing fees. Next summer? we will see.
This winter FR lost a lot of money and they are trying to hide it. Let see for how long.

Jippie
9th Mar 2010, 07:54
The most bases they announce now are for next summer, not this winter.
Most aircraft are flying a reduced schedule indeed and spending more time on the ground then in the summer as you would expect in the winter.
As far as the money they lost, they will have an annual report and it wil state exactly and in detail where they lost(and made) money, as required by law. Not much to hide there.

Based
9th Mar 2010, 08:41
Being caught out with a boarding card issue or never booking with Ryanair again are personal passenger circumstances that have absolutely no connection to my point that you have fallen into the trap of believing the Ryanair spin you complain about. If you don’t print your own boarding card, Ryanair will charge you €40 to reissue it (except when you’ve been affected by something like the current snow disruption in Girona for example), no spin involved. Ryanair would be me more than happy for you to stand by your "contention that the hasty decision to axe those nine routes was indeed a kneejerk reaction" when in fact the reality is that these nine routes were part of an overall review of UK routes last summer which, given that the majority of them are currently not available from Liverpool, East Midlands or Leeds either, don’t appear to have been feasible without additional discounts from MAG.

Agree with it or not, Ryanair’s general policy is to drop routes that are not profitable within 6 months. In the words of Michael Cawley “The cost for opening a route is low. So we don’t bother trying to analyse the living daylights out of it, we have a look at the demographics, and then make a decision to do it – we accept that around 7-10% might not work but we don’t see this as a failure – we see it as 90% success. We leave routes if we don’t make sustainable profits after six months.”

In my opinion, DUB-MAN would also have had to be dropped to prove a kneejerk reaction. Bremen was one route which was actually switched to Liverpool, this route isn’t available from any other airport in the region suggesting that it did show potential and that Ryanair believed people would still travel to Liverpool if they did actually want to fly direct to Bremen - again this doesn’t really fit in with a kneejerk reaction theory.

lexoncd
9th Mar 2010, 09:36
Not that different than the established charter operators who for years have flown more aircaft in the higher revenue months than in the winter. There is no public service obligation on any route.

Not so long ago Ryanair were running out of flying hours and had to curtail some winter schedules as a result. Now work the guys to the limits in the summer when you can earn more and less in the winter with a change in destinations reflecting change in demand ii.e skiing and canary islands.

OltonPete
9th Mar 2010, 10:35
Using Cawley's figures for route cancellations I assume the BHX base is a disaster then?

I make the route cancellations over 33%.

Not that I believe their decision to cancel these routes was wrong, (although NYO, PSA & PGF in summer seemed okay) but in most instances they were totally nuts to start them in the first place.

Surely some kind of route planning is needed?

That is one high % figure of route closures for a base not even two years old.

Pete

Shed-on-a-Pole
9th Mar 2010, 10:45
BASED,

Thankyou for your latest comments. Clearly your differences with me relate to matters of opinion and interpretation rather than hard data or facts. On those grounds we have little prospect of reaching an agreement with each other. I suggest that we will have to be content with allowing other readers to make up their own minds based upon our respective postings.

Regards, SHED.

adfly
9th Mar 2010, 15:44
There is going to be a route from gatwick to malaga starting this summer according to wiki, not sure of the frequency though?

eu01
9th Mar 2010, 16:13
Its funny how some posters always take the negative view of Ryanairs operations..... MM, I think that most of the posters tend to be more or less positive towards the idea of cheap flying, but at the same time they are able to notice a few significant deficiencies in the current system. While you seem to back the “pure and simple” model of Ryanair in the present form, your view seems to be very simplified by the very obvious lack of criticism. The criticism, friendly or not, should always be valued, as it potentially brings new ideas and solutions to existing problems. Of course, one have to acknowledge them in the first place. It's not very wise to listen to the flatterers only, why not consider “pros and contras” of every situation.

In my view, it's not very smart to perceive everything in a very simplified way. That's also a very basic fault in Ryanair's approach. For example the famous “pile it high and sell it cheap" strategy works in general, but does not convince everyone, possible just a minority. Not everybody will “crawl bollock-naked over broken glass” to get the cheap fares. It would be simply wise to soften the approach to customers, to convince more people to use Ryanair. The negligence will not help.

Too many people still deliberately choose more expensive options just to avoid the airline with its dubious publicity stunts, not friendly enough, abusing, blackmailing, considering stupidities (like pay toilets) and so on. The FR general approach to passengers also looks somewhat faulty. Potential pax want possibly not only cheap fares but also some... well, pretty usual lies about being the “most valued customer” + the average marketing fuss. Denying even the most basic finery in relations to pax results in narrowing the target group. Some will swallow everything just to travel very cheap, others will not. And indeed, an elementary “face lifting” would not even cost very much.

mickyman
9th Mar 2010, 18:12
eu01

Whilst I can agree that criticism is okay - I dont think that
taking the opposite stance in a discussion is wrong.Surely
its the basis of debate through the centuries?

Perhaps I think that Ryanair has found its market and its
market knows what its paying for.The expectations of some
who fly with them may be overblown by their experiences
with other (non so called Lo-cost)airlines.
If I book a flight with Ryanair I know exactly what to expect
- I do not expect four trolleys in the aisle as I experienced
last summer on a domestic flight from LHR - MAN with BA.
I know that if something goes wrong then minimal extra
help will follow - and I except this as the price to fly lo-cost.
I would just like to repeat that for 60m+ passengers Ryanair
is fine but there are plenty of other airlines around who will
transport you to places that will make a fuss of you if that is
what you want.
Some people cannot/do not want to get their heads around
the concept (Ryanairs' at least) of Lo-cost air travel.
No amount of moaning on these forums will change the airlines
operating ideas as far as I know - in fact its the people who
think THEY know best that are the really deluded ones.
Why would I critisize when most posters on here are already
doing that?
Lastly, I guess Im under no grand illusion about Ryanair but at
the end of the day I know what Im paying for (or not)before I commit.

Regards,

MM

GnRdL
10th Mar 2010, 08:23
- London Stansted (STN) - Ciudad Real (CQM):
from 25/May/2010
2/5/7

Aeropuerto Central Ciudad Real (http://www.aeropuertocentralcr.com/index.php)

pee
10th Mar 2010, 08:37
New big airport built with Ryanair in mind, still in very sporadic use as FR choose MAD as its base in Central Spain. Good for CQM to have at least that.

ChalfontFlyer
10th Mar 2010, 08:49
Nothing on Ryanair's website about it yet. Presumably in true Ryanair fashion when it does appear given this new airport's high speed train link taking less than an hour to the centre of Madrid they will market it as 'Madrid - Ciudad Real'! :rolleyes:

GnRdL
10th Mar 2010, 08:59
Ciudad Real Central :ok:

Hollymead
10th Mar 2010, 09:15
Why would they market it as Madrid when they already go to Barajas ??

They would be better off calling it Valdepeñas . :p

ChalfontFlyer
10th Mar 2010, 09:36
Granted they do have the base at Barajas but think about the fact that they've no doubt gone to this airport with the help of an incentive! So what better way to help put it on the map than link it with somewhere much bigger & that many more people will recognise!! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Charlie Roy
10th Mar 2010, 20:50
I hope Ciudad Real can make a success of their new airport. They're going to need another few routes to get going though. Barcelona, the Canaries, the UK and Germany hold the best potential in my opinion.

A bit off topic, but does anyone know if Ryanair are interested in the almost complete Castellon Airport (80km north of Valencia, 180km south of Reus)?

Hollymead
10th Mar 2010, 22:22
A bit off topic, but does anyone know if Ryanair are interested in the almost complete Castellon Airport (80km north of Valencia, 180km south of Reus)?

Only if Villareal qualify for Europe , which is looking unlikely . ;)

mickyman
13th Mar 2010, 17:42
I read an interesting report in the paper today that
said Ryanair passengers had complained more in the last few years
about the airline - and complaints about British Airways had also
gone up - no suprise there!!
Then I was gob-smacked to read that the airline with more 'official'
complaints than any other was................Easyjet !!
You could have knocked me down - as they say.
To think most posters on here sight Easy as a better low-co carrier
than Ryanair.......just goes to show you.

The silence of the last few days has not gone unnoticed!

MM

pwalhx
13th Mar 2010, 18:03
It would be interesting to find the definition of 'official' complaints, it may be a lies damn lies and statsitics case, however if in fact correct it is one in the eye for the anti FR brigade.

Skipness One Echo
13th Mar 2010, 19:33
Or were one to apply the grey matter one might conclude that people have concluded that moaning about Ryanair gets you nowhere and is an utter waste of time.

racedo
13th Mar 2010, 19:46
Or were one to apply the grey matter one might conclude that people have concluded that moaning about Ryanair gets you nowhere and is an utter waste of time.

So if there are more complaints they are bad or less complaints they are bad because people not complaining.........:ugh:

Based on that premises there is nothing that could be done that wouldn't ensure you would put a negative spin on the results.

pwalhx
13th Mar 2010, 19:55
Hav yet to see anything but a positive spin about Ryanair from you Racedo

mickyman
13th Mar 2010, 20:16
pwalhx....

Its a report by the Aviation watchdog:Air Transport Users
Council (AUC).I read it in the Grauniad.

'Hav yet to see anything but a positive spin about Ryanair from you Racedo' can I just add 'or a negative from you pwalhx'.

Skipness.....

'Or were one to apply the grey matter one might conclude that people have concluded that moaning about Ryanair gets you nowhere and is an utter waste of time.' - probably with the realisation that to complain about it officially would leave one open to ridicule - perhaps?

Its noticable that the number of complaints to the watchdog
per passengers flown (By Easy/Ryanair)was in effect quite low.

MM

daz211
13th Mar 2010, 20:26
Do people still write letters ?
It has always struck me as a sad thing to do, If i try something and dont like it, then at least I know for next time. You would think people had better things to do with their time.

mickyman
13th Mar 2010, 20:38
daz211

More likely to be an email in this day and age surely?

MM

pwalhx
13th Mar 2010, 20:43
Mickyman if you care to read my posts on this thred I try to keep an even handed view

Mr A Tis
13th Mar 2010, 20:44
I think its pretty obvious to most folk that writing to the likes of Ryanair, Baby, Thomsonfly etc etc is a complete waste of time
Even if you complain to the AUC, they have no teeth & the airline is not obliged to accept their findings.
UK Airlines + complaint = waste of time IMHO.

davidjohnson6
13th Mar 2010, 20:49
UK Airlines + complaint = waste of time IMHOMr Tis - I suspect that if you have a gold-coloured loyalty card with a UK airline or are some other type of commercially important person, and make a complaint, you are likely to be taken rather more seriously that someone who is not clearly identifiable as a frequent highly profitable customer

Donalk
14th Mar 2010, 11:35
Interesting newspaper piece which casts an alternative view on Ryanair's viability. Air France seem intent on pursuing this.

Is Mick O'Leary just a big EU subsidy-bunny? - Business, Frontpage - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/is-mick-oleary-just-a-big-eu-subsidybunny-2098802.html)

Coquelet
14th Mar 2010, 15:52
Air France objecting to subsidies : that is to say subsidies to others, of course.
As for Charleroi, some "subsidies" have been forbidden by the EU, but not all of them - Ryanair still fly to Charleroi, more than ever, and will soon have twelve aircraft based there.

skyeuropecapt
14th Mar 2010, 16:00
And the battle begins...:E

EUROPE March 12, 2010, 12:58PM EST text size: TT
Air France Lets Fly Legal Attack on Ryanair
The French flag carrier is challenging the Irish discount airline over subsidies it demands from localities, which keep fares down but are borne by taxpayers

By John Lichfield


An aerial dogfight is about to break out in the skies of Europe. The French national flag carrier, Air France (AFLYY), has launched the biggest and most elaborate legal challenge so far to the local subsidies – or "contributions" – received by the Irish-based cut-price airline Ryanair (RYAAY) for flying to regional airports in France and elsewhere.

In a complaint filed with the European Commission in December, and made public yesterday, Air France claims that Ryanair now receives €660m (£599m) in public funds from local authorities in Europe each year, including €35m (£32m) in France. Far from making a profit in 2008 and a small loss last year, Air France insists that Ryanair made a whacking de facto loss in both years, disguised by allegedly illegal public subsidies.

"The Irish airline purports to be the Robin Hood [airline] which offers unbeatably low prices, compared to the inflated prices of national carriers," a senior Air France official said yesterday. "In fact, Ryanair is only flying thanks to taxpayers' money."

Ryanair dismissed the suit, which was brought under EU rules guaranteeing free and fair competition. "We pay no attention to false claims from high-fares, fuel-surcharging airlines like Air France," said the Ryanair spokesman Stephen McNamara. "Ryanair is investing millions in regional French airports, whereas Air France ignores them."

Ryanair has survived previous EU challenges to the "contributions" that it demands from local or regional councils for flying to regional airports. Air France claims it has pieced together the true extent of these "subsidies" by trawling through the accounts presented to local financial watchdogs in France and other EU countries.

The money is paid to Ryanair for, among other things, helping to create new regional air links, or for "marketing" local attractions. In recent months, a couple of French local authorities have protested that Ryanair has demanded increased payments and threatened to move its flights elsewhere.

Michel Boutant, the president of the Charente council in western France, complained in December that Ryanair had asked for an additional €175,000 in "marketing" payments to continue its flights from London to Angoulême this year. He accused the Irish airline of "blackmail."

Under a framework agreement drawn up by the European Commission in 2004, Ryanair (and other airlines) can receive local taxpayers' money under certain conditions. The aid must be notified to Brussels, limited in duration and restricted to small airports that would not otherwise attract international flights.

Air France complains that, in Ryanair's case, these conditions are often broken. It points out, for instance, that Ryanair receives payments from Marseille and Nice airports, both of which are already international and neither of which is small.

The Air France complaint will be studied by the European Commission competition directorate, which must decide whether there are grounds to take action. Previous legal moves against Ryanair by Brussels have been overturned by the European Court of Justice or settled by negotiation.

Provided by The Independent—from London, for Independent minds

D O Guerrero
14th Mar 2010, 16:06
Air France complaining about someone being subsidised?
Tres riche!

jetopa
15th Mar 2010, 06:33
A level playing field for all? A nice dream - but it will never happen in Europe. Remember the discussion about to reduce subsidizing agricultural products? Same thing: true local thinking and national egoism rule here, too.

If AF was successful in making Ryanair pay for services at local French airports, hey, they just go somewhere else and make a business there. And they will be received by local politicians with their arms (and the taxpayers' pockets) open wide.

As much as I hate to support Ryanair through taxpayers money, I would prefer any competitor to exercise some self-critique and ask himself the question: 'What's better in their offer than in ours - and how can we learn from that?'.

captplaystation
15th Mar 2010, 09:16
I was once told (and this is a rumours network so I have no problem repeating it here) that Air France paid nothing, zilch, in landing fees etc etc @ CDG, but, if indeed true, that is not the same of course :hmm:

BALLSOUT
15th Mar 2010, 11:54
And how much has Air France had in subsidies over the years? Just another case of the French complaining about anyone other than the French getting something for nothing!

rvsm compliant
15th Mar 2010, 16:38
World cup comes to mind
Platini head of fifa,Tierri scores with a hand ball but its ok cos 'I'm French and we are going to the World cup.........Funny really as that was against Ireland:rolleyes:

The SSK
15th Mar 2010, 16:52
I was once told (and this is a rumours network so I have no problem repeating it here) that Air France paid nothing, zilch, in landing fees etc etc @ CDG, but, if indeed true, that is not the same of course :hmm:

If you believe that, then you haven't got a clue. If AF got so much as a whiff of a discount at CDG, BA and Lufthansa would be breaking down the door of the EU Competition Commissioner to complain - and their complaint would be upheld, toute de suite.

On the other hand it's OK for Ryanair to fly routes that would never in a million years make money under the normal rules of economics and not only have their operations subsidised by the local taxpayers, but walk away with a nice profit into the bargain.

Is Mick O'Leary just a big EU subsidy-bunny? - Business, Frontpage - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/is-mick-oleary-just-a-big-eu-subsidybunny-2098802.html)

h&s
17th Mar 2010, 22:09
ryanair is the most subsidised airline in europe at the moment, so at least his ceo should keep a low profile and stop his ridiculous liberal market champion positioning - well done airfrance!

racedo
18th Mar 2010, 00:19
Tis a pity Air France doesn't have to show the funds made available under French defence budget payable yearly to ensure AF would immediately provide airlift capacity Civilian jets in event of France requiring it to move military personnel anywhere in the world at a moment notice.

At last count it was €2000 per seat for couple of hundred thousand seats...............nice little subsidy that never can be questioned in EU as its a military issue.

Then again when AF have slot controllers at Paris airports making sure no one gets in then that doesn't come under subsidy N'est Pas ?

45989
18th Mar 2010, 08:45
Evidence Please?

tommyc2005
18th Mar 2010, 13:31
FR seem to be doing some flying for BA in the upcoming strike! I wonder if this will mean FR flying from LHR?! I bet 'bye bye BA' stickers are being applied to the hired aircraft as we speak......

Hobby Flyer
18th Mar 2010, 16:34
Ryanair must be hurting Air France if they are acting like this. They have no hope of proving any of this.

Ryanair are driving down the costs of travel right across Europe. Aer Lingus, British Airways, Lufthansa, Sabena and Iberia have all tried and failed to try and link their low cost model with some form of subsidy.

Air France will fail as well. I wonder how much of our taxpayers money will be spent by the European Commission investigating this on behalf of the court?

Sober Lark
18th Mar 2010, 16:41
The ordinary Frenchman thinks Ryanair is French and they'll do anything to support their own.

MUFC_fan
18th Mar 2010, 17:21
Air France will fail as well. I wonder how much of our taxpayers money will be spent by the European Commission investigating this on behalf of the court?


Air France is way too big to fail...

45989
18th Mar 2010, 17:35
Racedo, Still waiting for the evidence??

eu01
18th Mar 2010, 17:47
AF is not the only hypocrite here. What about the Alitalia miracle? No one seems to remember any debts, the deficits probable never existed... or didn't they?

Seljuk22
18th Mar 2010, 18:02
from 22nd June AGP-VLC 5 weekly
from 1st July NRN-ZAZ 3 weekly

mickyman
18th Mar 2010, 18:31
There is a lot of speculation that Ryanair are to operate
the BA shuttle from Manchester over the strike period -
Anybody know anything more about this?

MM

Tom the Tenor
18th Mar 2010, 18:54
I would not rule out heading over to Heathrow to see that - a Ryanair 737 operating a LHR-MAN shuttle flight.

What is the world coming to at all - it is getting too much for me!

Ametyst1
18th Mar 2010, 19:39
British Airways has chartered 3 Ryanair Boeing 737-800s to operate domestic flights from London Gatwick to Edinburgh (3 a Day), Glasgow (3 a Day) and Manchester (4 a Day). All three aircraft will night-stop at Gatwick and will be used on 20,21 & 22 March

EuroWings
18th Mar 2010, 20:11
"Air transport and travel should never be disrupted by strike action and Ryanair has offered to assist BA in any way it can as it works against the demands of unrealistic unions," a Ryanair spokesman said.

Noted this in a Telegraph article about the strike. Ryanair actually SYMPATHISING with BA, offering help (for wet-lease cost of course) and no nasty comments! :eek::eek: Thought O'Leary and McNamara might of retired before i saw the comment on the Ryanair.com front page

“With the Unite union and British Airways once again disrupting thousands of passengers, travellers can ensure that they avoid being caught up in BA’s strikes by switching to one of Ryanair’s strike free, guaranteed lowest fares flights.

Aah! Back to normal! :rolleyes::E

Charlie Roy
19th Mar 2010, 00:38
If Ryanair get a good deal at Tallinn then they're interested in the following routes:


Bergamo (no competition)
Gerona (Estonian fly to BCN in summer)
Charleroi (Estonian fly to BRU)
Weeze (no competition)
Kaunas (no competition / Estonian + airBaltic fly to VNO)
Oslo (Estonian + Norwegian fly to OSL)
Stockholm (Estonian + airBaltic fly to ARN)
London (Estonian fly to LGW, Easyjet fly to STN)
Madrid (no competition)
Ryanair is pressuring Tallinn Airport for lower airport fees :: The Baltic Course | Baltic States news & analytics (http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/transport/?doc=24506)
Estonion Air won't be the happiest of campers. They're already suffering from a increase in airBaltic's Estonian presence.

RYR738_driver
19th Mar 2010, 13:24
"Heathrow Tower Ryanair 9201, ILS 27L..........errrr, sorry Speedbird 9201

Ryanair crews won't know what's hit them with hour long turnarounds and jet bridges.

Also would love to see the BA passengers face when the lovely RYR cabin crew offer them a beer............at £5 :ok:

biddedout
19th Mar 2010, 13:34
Are they likey to see their first crew meal - ever?

ara01jbb
19th Mar 2010, 13:46
Also would love to see the BA passengers face when the lovely RYR cabin crew offer them a beer............at £5 :ok:

According to the short item I saw on BBC News (featuring an Astraeus A320) BA will be providing the inflight catering etc. So while the FR cabin crew will be busier serving every passenger, they will at least be able to skip the time consuming bit handling the small change :ok:

racedo
19th Mar 2010, 14:53
BA Passengers in for a shock when they see very new aircraft instead of ones years old.

apaul
19th Mar 2010, 15:46
Are they going to be spared the on-time jingle?

ManofMan
19th Mar 2010, 15:48
BA Passengers in for a shock when they see very new aircraft instead of ones years old

LOL, with their Bright yellow interior, no magazines, nowhere to put items infront of you, packed in like sardines with no ability to recline your seat, advertising like you are on the number 169 bus arnt they just.

Think it will just re-iterate to people why they travel BA and not the flying supermarket.

Random Flyer
19th Mar 2010, 16:38
Think it will just re-iterate to people why they travel BA and not the flying supermarket.

Of course, the customers will keep coming back for more strike action and cancelled flights. :rolleyes:

james170969
19th Mar 2010, 16:38
At least those passengers will, hopefully, get to their destination on time instead of having their flight cancelled. In terms of legroom, I don't think there is that much difference between Ryanair and BA. Ok, so Ryanair's seats don't recline. I never recline my seat on the shuttle and I hate it when the person in front does.

Tom the Tenor
19th Mar 2010, 16:45
Not sure what the leg room is like on the BA A320s and remaining 737s but the economy seats on the 747s are on the narrow side to say the least and I am not tall, a bit wide, okay, maybe a little! The cabin service on the other hand was excellent, 10/10.

dublinaviator
19th Mar 2010, 17:01
"Heathrow Tower Ryanair 9201, ILS 27L..........errrr, sorry Speedbird 9201

Ryanair crews won't know what's hit them with hour long turnarounds and jet bridges.

Also would love to see the BA passengers face when the lovely RYR cabin crew offer them a beer............at £5 http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

AFAIK all BA flights that Ryanair are operating will be from Gatwick, not Heathrow, so we won't be seeing harps in heathrow just yet.;)

Random Flyer
19th Mar 2010, 17:03
AFAIK all BA flights that Ryanair are operating will be from Gatwick, not Heathrow, so we won't be seeing harps in heathrow just yet.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Shame. It would have been some sight, a load of Ryanair 737s lined up at T5. ;)

45989
19th Mar 2010, 17:09
Hey Racedo Still waiting for the facts??

Skipness One Echo
19th Mar 2010, 17:10
If I was flying this weekend I'd be grateful to both parties that they can work together and get me to my destination with the minimum of fuss. Speaks volumes about WW's determination to break BASSA that he's not too bothered about MOL making great capital out of this.

The SSK
19th Mar 2010, 17:13
They call it Gatwick but it's actually 'Gatwick West', er, Lasham.

frfly
20th Mar 2010, 10:27
Wont it make a nice change for BA's LGW passengers to fly on brand new modern boeing aircraft on domestic routes ;)

I hope the crew play the ontime PA on arrival....(I am sure however BA have already said a massive no to this!!!)

SGH
20th Mar 2010, 21:14
Not Ryanair, but some red tails!!

Falcon666
21st Mar 2010, 19:56
Anybody on this thread have influence over Poster Advertising --
You might like to know that Ryanair Posters have appeared in Northampton advertising Flights from ----:ugh: Bournemouth Airport:rolleyes:

Think East Midlands , Birmingham ,Luton or Stansted might just be a tad closer.

Random Flyer
21st Mar 2010, 21:08
Anybody on this thread have influence over Poster Advertising --
You might like to know that Ryanair Posters have appeared in Northampton advertising Flights from ----:ugh: Bournemouth Airport:rolleyes:

Think East Midlands , Birmingham ,Luton or Stansted might just be a tad closer.


Chances are these adverts are a joint campaign between Bournemouth and Ryanair. The geography of the adverts could be down to Bournemouth Airport trying to increase its catchment and attract passengers that would have previously not considered Bournemouth Airport for flights.

davidjohnson6
21st Mar 2010, 21:25
The geography of the adverts could be down to Bournemouth Airport trying to increase its catchment

At around 135 miles by road from Nothampton to Bournemouth (about 2h 30m to drive), somebody at Bournemouth airport would have to be rather optimistic as to how big their catchment area is !

DILLTHEDOG
21st Mar 2010, 21:48
That's not far ! and surely qualifies Bournemouth as Northampton South !

Random Flyer
21st Mar 2010, 21:55
That's not far ! and surely qualifies Bournemouth as Northampton South !


Wouldn't that be Southampton? :}

Eff Oh
22nd Mar 2010, 11:26
Is it just me, or have Ryanair stayed very quiet about the BA strike? I would have thought they would have been all over the press sticking the boot in. I mean surely they could not have a better opportunity to get one over on BA, which leads me to my next question.... Are BA sub-chartering flights to RYR??
If they are then I guess it must be in the contract that RYR doesn't say anything. It all just seems a bit strange. :confused: