Ryanair - 7

[toledoashley]

Do we have any news on new routes / bases?

[jferreira20]

Santander-Paris is official.

[Jamie2k9]

BVA - Gutenburg City also announced

[Padanian1]

Still no mention of PIK-BGY and PIK-CIA for the winter?

[apron alpha]

think there pulled for the winter, unfortunately

[Noxegon]

A document has been sent to the Irish Government detailing how to fix the tourism crisis. The usual suggestions about DAA and the travel tax were discussed as well. You'd think the government would listen as extra 20 aircraft and 6m passengers over five years would be attracted to the country.

The fact is that Ryanair will put its aircraft somewhere else at the first sign of a better deal, or if they don't fill them, or whatever. Just look at what happened in SNN; FR were paying well under the published rates and still couldn't meet their own promises.

Personally I feel that the government should scrap the travel tax, and instead put a 50% levy on all additional charges added to the base fare charged by airlines. It'd be interesting to see how Mick would react to that one :)

[EI-BUD]

I have heard a rumour that Abertis Airports (owner of LTN, BFS & CWL and operator of others) may be looking at Barcelona El Prat, the basics of the info was that Abertis would be running the airport. This would replace AENA.

Lead on from this is that Ryanair are in discussions with BFS airport. So within the context of Ryanair now having a 5 aircraft bases at El Prat, is there some developments coming from BFS + Ryanair?

EI-BUD

[gate 22]

Lead on from this is that Ryanair are in discussions with BFS airport. So within the context of Ryanair now having a 5 aircraft bases at El Prat, is there some developments coming from BFS + Ryanair?



That is one route BFS does not need - BCN. If EZY bring back Luton, BFS does not need FR.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Please cut out the politics! The drift from Ryanair is NOT acceptable and many posts have been deleted - and will be again if it continues. We might close the thread too so be warned. Stick to the topic.

[apron alpha]

does anyone think that after olearys comments that he will look to get int0 more primary airports, that ryanair at GLA is going to happen? even if ryanair have the main maintenence hangar and basically paying nothing to use the airport? handling, power units, landing fees, parking fees, baggage, its all for free, opinions please

[Skipness One Echo]

I don't really see Ryanair moving to Glasgow. If they did, let's be honest Prestwick as a commercial passenger airport, dies (again!). Hence he can demand anything from PIK and assume he'll get it as he knows that BAA Glasgow will still want a commercial return in the mid term. PIK don't have the same business model.

What he might do, is start a couple of routes from continental bases into GLA to put the fear of God into the management at PIK.

I notice that there are no huge "Ryanair" titles on the hangars. Are they like the Polar hangar, owned by the airport and leased to Ryanair? If so, I wonder who is taking the risk on this.

[davidjohnson6]

BAA Glasgow will still want a commercial return in the mid term. PIK don't have the same business model.

Forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that PIK is not making money, or that PIK has lower costs per unit passenger and can therefore afford to charge its customers lower fees ?

[Skipness One Echo]

Here is my view on Ryanair over the next couple of years....

With the recession ending those who had shifted from legacy carriers to LCC are going to start moving back.

Actually this is your opinion which is fine but it's not actually as simple and clear cut as you imply. What MOL and Ryanair say and do are not the same thing. I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that I fly Ryanair on business to save money. If they were the most convenient then yes, but for price God no!

Let stewardesses land planes.
Passengers standing up.
Pay for the toilets.
etc etc

Sure Ryanair will move into new markets but in this particular case, there's nothing to be gained. PIK is already 45 minutes on a subsidised direct train service from Terminal to City Centre.

I think PIK will have a good future serving the West of Scotland and their never ending fascination with the same old places. Personally I am going to miss BHD and already miss ORK, SNN and BOH but if that's what they need to do for the base to be viable then excellent.

Forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that PIK is not making money, or that PIK has lower costs per unit passenger and can therefore afford to charge its customers lower fees ?

Second one I would say. They have to focus their whole operation in a way that supports the customer that allows them to survive. GLA adapt from Continental all the way to easyJet. Horses for courses!

[Amelia Earhart]

Why should Ryanair move to GLA from PIK?

In the absence of a rail connection to Glasgow International, Prestwick is a grand alternative, the train from the airport leaves you right into the centre of Glasgow in 40 minutes and only costs £3.

[Callsign Kilo]

The time for a GLA base has been and gone. Jet2s decision to get in their for April 11 suggests that there will be no FR competition. If anything, the GSM void will now be filled and it would be good to see Jet2 doing a good job at it. I believe summer 10 has been a success for FR at PIK, so if it isn't broken; don't fix it. EDI is achieving the main concentration of growth for FR in Scotland and will hold on to it's 6 a/c through the winter with possible further growth penciled in for Summer 11. If GLA get's anything, as Skipness suggests, it may be a few routes served from other bases. STN is dropping down to one a day from PIK (didn't there used to be 9 services per day at one stage); so maybe a route like this is better served from GLA where the majority of London business traffic resides.

[airbourne]

“It’ll be an evolutionary process,” he said. “When fares aren’t being reduced every year in 2013, 2014, 2015 there’ll be more of a focus on quality, service, customer satisfaction and all that, because the prices will be rising.

From the bloomberg article.

Its all well and good making a statement like that, but when you have been burned once by ryanair you go ok, twice, at a push but 3-4 times being burned, screwed in charges, cancelled flights, the general careless attitude that ryanair have about their passengers I find it hard to think that business travellers will move to them.

Let me ask you this, if Ryanair had a good level of customer service, treating the passengers and staff alike well, how many more people would travel with them. 73 million passengers a year, what is the number for those that just refuse to fly ryanair?

I have taken the same flights sometimes paying 2 cent, sometimes paying ¢100. Is there any difference in the service? NO, it generally average. Getting people to pay that ¢100 on a regular basis with no improvments wil be difficult.

[davidjohnson6]

airbourne - will the bean-counters in finance in most companies who are always looking for ways to cut costs ignore the possibility ?

Get the airport pair and timings right, make the fare a significant discount to traditional carriers, remove the cheap+nasty image, build a website for corporate travel management, and businesses may well take notice.

If easyJet can do it, then there's no reason as to why Ryanair can't do the same.

[Zippy Monster]

...rules out only London Heathrow, Paris Charles de Gaulle and Frankfurt am Main as targets because of the need to turn planes around in 25 minutes.

Nothing to do with inability to get any slots, useful or otherwise, at these airports then? :rolleyes:

[eu01]

Here we go again. MOL talking to Irish Times (in the Friday Interview (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0924/1224279584792.html)):
“The great advantage for Ryanair is that we’re now the largest airline in the world. We have governments all over Europe – the Spanish, the Italians, the French – beating a path to our door saying ‘please will you grow here’.”No, thanks. This populist-style erudition can't get my attention, really. Neither the iteration of "charging for toilets" or "let's take out the co-pilot" issues. What could we filter out of the interview? Maybe this: “We don’t need to grow out of Dublin, thankfully,” or perhaps this: “Aer Arann will go bust . . . It’s a subsidy junkie airline that can’t make any money. They still got €13 million for the [PSO] routes and still can’t make money. The subsidies are insane”.

Another, somewhat intriguing subject could be found here:
He claims to have just signed a deal with a European government to open four bases in that country. But he won’t say which one.
“Ah, stop. I’m not going to alert my competition to where I’m opening bases.”Interesting indeed. In which country one has to sign a deal with the GOVERNMENT to open bases there? France perhaps? Poland?

[FA10]

Interesting indeed. In which country one has to sign a deal with the GOVERNMENT to open bases there? France perhaps? Poland?


Isn´t in France a judges decision due how they treat the long-running dispute concerning the payment of pensions and health care contributions for french based FR pilots? The topic that was threatening the MRS base?

If that is going pro RYR a couple of french bases are imminent!

FA10

[Alsacienne]

“The great advantage for Ryanair is that we’re now the largest airline in the world. We have governments all over Europe – the Spanish, the Italians, the French – beating a path to our door saying ‘please will you grow here’.”

Well well well. What a short memory MOL has. That's why he's at FKB ... instead of SXB, because AF objected to the golden hello and other sweeteners. I think that the French are not waiting with baited breath for FR to taint our overpressured airspace!

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair have threatened to close all routes from Reus & Girona if AENA don't reduce airport fees further. Both airports are holding talks with other airlines to operate from the airports.

In Spanish
Ryanair insta a AENA a rebajar las tasas para continuar en Reus y Girona · ELPAÍS.com (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cataluna/Ryanair/insta/AENA/rebajar/tasas/continuar/Reus/Girona/elpepiespcat/20100902elpcat_4/Tes)

[teleport]

How many Ryanair planes are out of service and where are they?

[FA10]

Nothing mothballed - all are flying.
During winter there will be once again some aircraft be parked at various airports, but none of them for more than a couple of days until another one is taken out of the normal operation and the parked one is flying again. No mothballing.

[ssflyer]

I am copying my trip report,posted on another forum,for your delight and,no doubt,dissection.

"Check-in for an FR flight at BHX is traditionally a nightmare – our check-in in June took 70 minutes for 165 PAX with only one desk open.So we arrived early for our flight FR9163 to GRO last week and to our delight there were 3 desks open, non destination specific, and we were through in 5 minutes.
Then BHX terminal 2 Security - what a joke, twenty minutes to get through with one X-Ray machine working and about 12 staff behind it!
However BHXT2 is well served for outlets so, having bought our Boots £3.49 lunch pack to take on board, we settled down at Wetherspoons.
Departures board then shows 15 minute delay, immediately countermanded by gate staff shouting “Girona flight,Priority Boarding” As usual at BHX they get departing PAX down the passages to the air-bridge before the incoming arrives, and this was the case as the “delayed” Reus flight had caught up, and landed pretty well on time.
We were the fifth group of PB PAX and as there was some delay with an slow walking person struggling up the front steps we boarded the rear steps and were in our favourite seats (trade secret, but better legroom than Club Europe) before she appeared up front.

Good safety briefing, and good information from the Captain, as is always the case with BHX based aircraft. On GRO based aircraft the opposite is the norm-are they dumb or shy up front?
Trolly sales seemed to be mainly hot drinks-not much food or booze appeared to be sold as many PAX had brought their own. The usual smokeless cigarettes and scratch cards were offered but on neither leg did I see any purchases.
Smooth flight, landed on time to the Ryanair on time tootle fanfare.GRO is dominated by FR (for the moment but MOL is threatening to move to BCN#) and the handling is efficient, and inspite of 4 aircraft in, we had our luggage in 15 minutes.

After 8 glorious warm days the weather broke throughout Iberia on the last day with many storms so we set out early, aquaplaning on the autopista, to check-in for our return flight FR9162 GRO/BHX.As usual there our check-in (and security) were a doddle - 5 check-in gates open, non destination specific and four X-Ray queues at Security. We were through the lot in 8 minutes.
UK take note.
We noticed that the FR Stanstead flight was just departing, an hour late and the next flights before ours were FR internal flights (Malaga,Palma and Seville (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g187443-Seville_Andalusia-Vacations.html)).
At GRO,they announce the gate an hour before departure which does mean a lot of queuing and this was made worse for our flight by an announcement of a 30 minute delay and the gate allocation of number 2 - the only gate that does not have the split queue of PB and nonPB.So a queue starts at 19.50 for a flight not expecting to board till 21.15 at the earliest.

In the meantime the skies darken and rain and lightening starts. Aircraft in unusual liveries for GRO start to land with no PAX disembarking - Easyjet,Vieuling,Air Berlin etc and a further announcement is made that our incoming from BHX is 75 minutes late. It eventually arrives and the bedraggled and ill dressed PAX disembark wading the 200m from the aircraft-
Welcome to Sunny Spain.
By this time the boarding staff have announced “Priority Boarding Only” to looks of thunder from those at the front of the queue watching us who have been sitting in the cafe, in the know, waiting for the signal to stride to the front.A quick sprint in the rain, tiny brolly’s up, and we were third to board and into our “usual” seats.

It was a full aircraft and the FA’s really did work hard to get everyone out of the rain and boarded.
Captain then apologises for the delay-“we have had a terrible week as the French ATC have been playing up, and that combined with the storms and all these diverted aircraft has caused the delays-I have a takeoff slot in 25 minutes and will get you out of here at best speed then”As he predicted he started engines and we made our way the runway for take off to the North-and we waited, and waited with all the sky around us lit by lightening and the rain bounced off the wings. A few PAX had white faces and a few held their heads in their hands but eventually we took off & although I am no expert I felt he had full power, with no noise abatement, till we cleared the thunder tops. Surprisingly little turbulence but loads of lightening all around.
At a cruise of 38,000ft there was the usual trolley service (suspended briefly for some CAT) which was cheerful and efficient from again a BHX crew.A delighted Captain came on to say how pleased he was to be on his way home, and with an unexpected tail wind, our flight was 10 minutes shorter than normal.
Cold and dry in Birmingham and as the aircraft was parked for the night we were bussed to Arrivals and again, unusually for BHXT2, there were 3 Border desks open for a quick(ish) passport check and an unusually short wait for luggage.(30+minutes average for us at T2)

We paid for our tickets in March, £97 return each to include hold luggage and PB, HALF of what we would have paid 8 years ago on BA-BHX/BCN.

FR has many detractors and many fans.However they are a highly succesful business model and are very profitable although the pathetic headline grabbing spouting that comes from MOL does,in my opinion, detract from the good work of the employees.
For my part it an airline of necessity as it is the only one that flies from my local airport to where I want to go to.
Follow their rules -hand luggage/hold luggage weights and sizes, pay for PB if you desire and check in on line and at the airport on time.
If you don’t want to pay their F&B prices, or as we do, don’t want to wait for it to get to us, then take your own on board."

# I see an earlier posting has picked up on this
SSF

[JDB1052]

RTÉ Business: Ryanair cuts Kerry-Dublin service to 1 flight (http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0923/ryanair.html)

So Ryanair have finally caved in and handed back their government subsidy contract for flying between Dublin and Kerry. It was only a matter of time before they would find some excuse to terminate this service, blaming it on government, airports and anyone else they feel will distract attention away from one of their worst ever business decisions.

If I recall correctly, they bid low for the Kerry Dublin PSO a few years ago and won it from Arran and crowed about how they were saving the taxpayer money with such a low bid. They very quickly realised their model was all wrong for it and ended up flying flights with regularly less than 20 on board, frequently less than ten. For an airline that always looks for full aircraft, this one must have ranked at the bottom of their network by a pretty big margin.

Absolutely no doubt 'saving the government 2m euros' by handing back the contract will actually save Ryanair a helluva lot more.

[fullrich]

Why is anyone surprides at Ryanairs move at EIKY. They did the same at SNN, built a fortress then locked everyone out and disapperaed overnight. They will do the same at every Irish airport yet but given enough rope they may hang themselves in the process. I doubt that operating a 737 from Kerry to Dublin will work either now that its a commercial operation. The route was ideal for an ATR.

[Jamie2k9]

The fees at Dublin Airport have nothing to do with the route been cut. Ryanair are carrying less that 50 passengers on each flight from Kerry. As Ryanair will be operating the route without any PSO funding they will pay Kerry Airport the same fees as they pay for the other routes. With the PSO they pay higher fees.

The times on the route from Oct 31 are:
KIR 06:30 - DUB 07:20 (should depart 07:00 arrive 07:50)
DUB 21:30 - KIR 22:20 (should depart at 18:00 arrive 18:50)

Departing at 06:30 is to early and returning at 21:30 is way to late.
The aircraft will operate from DUB during the day. LTN, STN and HHM will be operated from there bases.

[Sikpupi]

It's not in the bag that they will still be on the Dublin route. The Irish Government might seek out another airline and offer the them the opportunity to operate the balance of the PSO to June 2011. That means that they will be off the Dublin route ....they can't be on it as well as a PSO operator.

The Governement really p*ssed off with them. First BFS, then SNN and now KIR....MOL is pushing it and politicans are keen to see their bluff.

I love the the Minister's quote (using Justice Kellys famous quote)
"....Ryanair and the Truth make uneasy bedfellows..."

Classic!!!

[CCR]

The early morning departure to Dublin and late flight back to Kerry are ideal for travelers catching connecting flights at Dublin airport.

[Sikpupi]

But the times are ridicoulous! Thats nearly 16 hrs from leaving Kerry in the morning. Not everyone is catching international flights....most are doing a days business in Dublin / in Kerry and need say a decent 6-8 hrs to do so.

I can see people only doing one-ways .i.e out on plane , back on train!!

[Jamie2k9]

The times need to be the same as the ORK - DUB route.

[eu01]

The policy of shifting to bigger airports will not necessary make life easier for Ryanair. There are gains achieved in terms of big airports they already fly to (like Madrid and Girona in Spain), but the situation elsewhere might become much more complicated. Ciampino's existence as civil airport is uncertain in a long term, moving e.g. from Bratislava to Schwechat didn't help others in any way (as in the Sky Europe case), now the clouds are gathering over Berlin as well.

The Mayor of Berlin Klaus Wowereit will start the official consultation process with airlines and associations on 5 October, but there are substantial fears the capital of Germany could in 2012 face an exodus of low-cost airlines anyway. Although differentiated according to the services required, all fees at the new BBI Schönefeld are going to rise substantially and the airlines will have to pay probably twice as much per passenger as today. "If it stays as expensive as previously announced, we will not fly there in the future any more," said O'Leary in his interview with "Wirtschaftswoche".

[racedo]

It's not in the bag that they will still be on the Dublin route. The Irish Government might seek out another airline and offer the them the opportunity to operate the balance of the PSO to June 2011. That means that they will be off the Dublin route ....they can't be on it as well as a PSO operator.

Can't have a PSO on a route that is already being run commercially.

[Sikpupi]

Can't have a PSO on a route that is already being run commercially

..They can only be on the route 'commercially' as from 1st November. A one flight a day flight is not the basis of the PSO and if the Government get another airline to run the PSO - he won't be allowed to run his 1 x flight a day. He will not be allowed to cherry pick to screw up the PSO.

[racedo]

..They can only be on the route 'commercially' as from 1st November. A one flight a day flight is not the basis of the PSO and if the Government get another airline to run the PSO - he won't be allowed to run his 1 x flight a day. He will not be allowed to cherry pick to screw up the PSO.

EU Law won't allow PSO on Commercial routes.

I doubt there is a huge worry in Irish Govt regarding PSO routes given the state of their finances.

[liffy2A]

Actually they are worried about it raceco, Its a long trip in a bus or a train and with Kerry being one of the highest tourist areas in the country the people deserve better for business and personal travel. Infact I'm sure alot of ministers use the route. Ryanair need to grow up a little and stop wasting share holders money. They blame everyone but themselves, It would be nice to see MOL make a statement on the French ans Spainish ATC strikes, have a go at them for a change.See how it works out. Heres an article about how the minister of transport see it.
ANNE LUCEY

THE MINISTER for Transport Noel Dempsey yesterday said the subsidised Kerry to Dublin flights being discontinued by Ryanair were available, and the Minister strongly hinted that Aer Arann, should apply to fill “the vacancy”.

Mr Dempsey also made a strong attack on Ryanair’s model Europe-wide in which he said the airline “squeezed” regional airports and squeezed competition out. He speculated that its approach in tendering for the Kerry public service obligation (PSO) had been “predatory” in the first place and they had got their sums wrong.

Aer Arann, which operates a number of other PSO routes between Dublin and other regional airports, had operated the routes from Kerry until undercut by Ryanair when they were last tendered for.

Aer Arann is in examinership having lost about €6 million for each of the last three years. At least 14 groups have expressed interest in investing in the airline which also operates regional routes on behalf of Aer Lingus.

Mr Dempsey said it was Ryanair’s “unilateral decision” to pull out of Kerry. He said the press statement issued by the airline announcing it was pulling out of the PSO scheme was “incorrect, inaccurate and untruthful”.

Mr Dempsey was speaking yesterday on Radio Kerry in the aftermath of Ryanair’s announcement on Thursday that it would no longer operate the PSO flights out of Kerry, but would operate one return flight a day, from October 31st, on a commercial basis.

In a statement yesterday Ryanair pointed to the increase in charges imposed on the route including a €4 tax on return tickets, a 40 per cent increase in airport fees and a 25 per cent increase in Irish Aviation Authority charges.

It pointed to a clause in its contract which required the Minister to have due regard when setting compensation to developments impacting the cost of operation which “could not have been anticipated by the company”.

Ryanair took over the PSO Kerry to Dublin route in 2008 with a tender which required a subsidy of €1.75 million. Aer Arann had been operating the route at a subsidy of over €3 million. The contract runs until July 2011.

Mr Dempsey said: “Ryanair contracted for this PSO and from what I can see either they got their bid hopelessly wrong or they made a predatory bid and under the PSO contract now can’t [fulfil] it. They got their sums wrong. It’s either one or the other. But typical Ryanair, they decide they’ll blame everyone else except themselves.”

[racedo]

Its a long trip in a bus or a train and with Kerry being one of the highest tourist areas in the country the people deserve better for business and personal travel.

Assummed that PSO's were only to be used to serve areas where no one would serve not as a business subsidy.
If just being used by business then suggests not really warrants a PSO route as business can pay for itself.

[Sikpupi]

EU Law won't allow PSO on Commercial routes.

...you keep going on about commercial routes. 1 x flight a day is not what this route needs - hence the need for a PSO to subsidise the losses on an airline to operate according to the needs of the area. The PSO was not set up to get a 9am and 5pm flight up and running....a dog on the street could make money on that scenario. PSO are set up to give support for the non- profitable routes that woudl be needed to make business interests in a designated area viable vis-a-vis access to the main Capital.

This PSO is not EU monies and hence they do not have a say in it - it is Irish Tax Payers who fund this. Also - Galway Airport have already tested thsi out as far as the EU courts and the EU has no objection in The Irish Gov allocating PSO as it wishes.

[racedo]

This PSO is not EU monies and hence they do not have a say in it - it is Irish Tax Payers who fund this.

WRONG

EU has a big say on it to prevent Govts channelling support to airlines on PSO routes and preventing commercial operations.

[befree]

I noticed the seat sale for last weekend for 5 euros was for only 1/2 million seats for the dead period in October/november. Last year the offer was for a million seats. Given higher fuel costs, taxes and landing fees these offers must be on the way out. Instead of dumping spare seats at a loss the airline is likely to cut flights in quite periods and give in on growth targets.

[pee]

@ flying to big airports
It really looks more like a verbal slogan than an imminent move. Ryanair has just canceled all its slots reservations at CPH Go new low-cost terminal at Kastrup (formerly called SWIFT). So far the 200 million DKK (€13.5 million) investment didn't attract any other carrier but easyJet.

@ winter schedule reductions
Sometimes non-experts can summarize the developments very well. Look at two of the opinions from Finnish Travel forums concerning the discontinuation of the routes from Tampere to Malaga and Bergamo (translated by me).
“They terminate routes where the planes are always full and prices are same as with the legacy carriers, are they idiots or what?”
“Flights to Malaga sell for over 250 euros one way. If that's not profitable is Ryanair a true low-cost carrier indeed?”

[eu01]

Ryanair is confident that its present negotiations in Lisbon will lead to the creation of a new Ryanair base at Portela Airport (LIS/LPPT) next year. "We are confident that our discussions will have a good result, " said Ryanair's Daniel de Carvalho at the press conference (http://www.abola.pt/mundos/ver.aspx?id=223814), explaining that "the main Achilles heel is related to operational issues" (25 min. turnaround time). The problem could be solved by using the domestic terminal, we learn. De Carvalho thinks Ryanair could start flying to Lisbon by next summer.
----------
“They terminate routes where the planes are always full and prices are same as with the legacy carriers, are they idiots or what?”I guess that the criteria which routes to axe (for the winter or generally) could be more simple than we think. Like: no marketing support - no flights. As the above example shows, it's possibly not always the best rule from the economical point of view. In some cases it could be a "matter of principle", though.

[IJM]

Flitefone - that clip has been posted on PPrune a few times now.

[FR-]

and this has what to do with ryanairs operation?

[eu01]

Now THIS is funnyFunny, huh? What about Jet Blast? Pretty disturbing here.

[RooCat]

anyhoo... Bloomberg and a few other news websites came up with an article regarding Ryanair expanding into Georgia, subject to the upgrading and improvements of various airports in the country. Does this article have an element of truth to it since Ryanair now seem to slowly expand their services in the eastern parts of europe?Or are we going to see more expansion in Greece, Cyprus,North Africa or central/eastern europe?

Rc

[flyzen]

AFP: French court charges Ryanair over employment law (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jz3U9MuubjMB1REGmxCacFZkC95g?docId=CNG.23f222f97c78009 8c57e478e66c05532.21)

Does MOL will close MRS base as previously stated ?

[Jamie2k9]

dep KIR - 09:25 - arr DUB - 10:15
dep DUB - 16:45 - arr KIR - 17:35

[TSR2]

Ryanair have cancelled 306 flights tomorrow.

[Coquelet]

Belgian ATC went on wildcat strike today at 1400, due to last until tomorrow 1400.
All flights cancelled at CRL, including a lot of FR flights.
Strike has just been cancelled as from 2200 today.

[Charlie Roy]

Ryanair have cancelled 306 flights tomorrow.

Also strikes confirmed in Spain.

[Seljuk22]

Rumour: FR will open a route from Weeze to a city in the Baltic states. But KUN and RIX are routes from NRN. Will they go to Tallinn or somewhere else?
Tallinn Airport will get a 65 mln kroons cash injection from the state :: The Baltic Course | Baltic States news & analytics (http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/transport/?doc=32085)

[MidlandDeltic]

Racedo is correct on the PSO issue. Governments cannot subsidise routes which are being flown commercially. Given the two different schedules mentioned, the Kerry to Dublin business trips are facilitated, which are the main market. In any event, after our budget in December, I don't think there will be any PSO servies in Ireland apart from (possibly) a Derry - Dub - Donegal - Dub - Derry type rotation. Kerry / Shannnon / Galway now have motorway links which mean centre-centre journeys are faster than air; Sligo rail services have been vastly improved, and NOC is in the middle of nowhere with no large city nearby. And the government is broke (bonds now at around 6.8% and rising).

Oh, and to the poster who suggested RYR are upsetting the Irish govt over Belfast City, I think not - it is in a different country!

MD

[Amelia Earhart]

RYR are upsetting the Irish govt over Belfast City, I think not - it is in a different country!


Different jurisdiction of course (ergo no tax implications) but I'm not sure the Irish government view it as a different country, afterall they operate a PSO to LDY.

I don't think there will be any PSO servies in Ireland apart from (possibly) a Derry - Dub - Donegal - Dub - Derry type rotation

The load factors on LDY-DUB are very poor (average 9 pax) - it will get the chop also:

the government is broke

[BFS101]

but I'm not sure the Irish government view it as a different country, afterall they operate a PSO to LDY.

Not to make this political, as it's an aviation forum for crying out loud, but to clear up a point mentioned previously. From the Good Friday Agreement:

Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish constitution are to be re-worded so that there is no longer a territorial claim over Northern Ireland. Instead, the constitution is to support the right to electoral consent. It will also declare that Irish laws only apply to the 26 counties and not to all 32 as previously asserted.

Back to aviation and Ryanair...

[MidlandDeltic]

[Quote:]
but I'm not sure the Irish government view it as a different country, afterall they operate a PSO to LDY.
[\Quote]

LDY serves not only NI, but also a significant part of northern Donegal, an area which is always agitating about lack of access to the rest of the Republic thanks to history. Hence my thought that both Derry and Donegal may survive as a single aircraft operation - I did witness a lunchtime Donegal rotation there a couple of years ago, and it appeared well loaded (on an ATR42). Didn't realise Derry was so poor - seems surprising, although roads are not too bad now I suppose via Belfast.

The other potential option is Manx2 operating something commercially, as they seem to be looking at niche markets albeit avoiding DUB to date. That is thread drift though, so I'll stop now :O

MD

[airnoc]

HI. Should the P.S.O remaind after the next budget. Ithink it should be Donegal and Sligo with the one aircraft twice daily and a new one for shannon as its need a lifeline but still has a motorway. Waterford should get one as well to serve the sunny south east. Galway has the motorway. Kerry has ryanair. Knock can survive without it but would be a help to get one. Derry has poor pax number so it will cost too much. What about Belfast int instead of Derry?

[cuthere]

What about Belfast int instead of Derry?

Airnoc, do you actually understand the purpose of the PSO routes? And furthermore, what has it got to do with Ryanair? (This is the Ryanair thread after all).

[Sober Lark]

As a matter of interest are the 120+ Ryanair employees in MRS (and elsewhere?) who seemingly pay their taxes, social security and pensions payments in Ireland included in the central statistics office Ireland employment statistics for the ROI? If so then surely a distortion of employment figures here. I understand these 120 individuals are French living in France.

[clareview]

Whats all this stuff about PSO, LDY, etc to do with Ryanair? If you want comment on those issues, a DUB-Belfast route was tried a few times and failed. Even less chance now with the new motorway. A new road is out to tender from the border to Londonderry to link with the much improved link from Dublin to Monaghan. When completed, admittedly a few years away, it will blow a Dub-Ldy air route completely out of the water.

[pee]

Rumour: FR will open a route from Weeze to a city in the Baltic states. But KUN and RIX are routes from NRN. Will they go to Tallinn or somewhere else?
According to my knowledge, it shell be Tallinn. Most probably commencing in December and/or January, not one but as much as nine destinations are planned: London, Dusseldorf-Weeze, Milan-Bergamo, Мadrid, Girona, Brussels-Charleroi, Oslo, Stockholm-Skavsta and Kaunas (very short route indeed).

The confirmation should come today (not sure if all these routes will be announced at once).

[davidjohnson6]

as much as nine destinations are planned: London, Dusseldorf-Weeze, Milan-Bergamo, Мadrid, Girona, Brussels-Charleroi, Oslo, Stockholm-Skavsta and KaunasThat would appear to set up Ryanair for a considerable degree of head-to-head competition against Estonian Air, who coincidentally fly to London, Milan Malpensa, Barcelona, Brussels, Oslo, Stockholm and Vilnius.

Estonian fly additionally from Vilnius to Amsterdam, Milan (from December) and Stockholm, while Ryanair fly to Milan from Kaunas.

One may also wish to consider that Estonia as a country has a population of less than 1.4 million. Lithuania, where Ryanair became the dominant carrier following the demise of FlyLAL in 2009, has a population of around 3.3 million

Assuming pee is correct, the level of route overlap does not look good for the newly nationalised Estonian.

[pee]

as much as nine destinations are planned
As rumours keep coming; these are routes discussed in June. How many of them will start from the very beginning is still unclear.

[wanna_be_there]

nine destinations are planned: London

Will it be to STN or do you think RYR will continue its expansion at Gatwick?

[FR195W]

New destination, country and route for Ryanair: Weeze - Tallinn to start from 13th december 3 times a week...

Greets
Matthias

[Based]

7 routes officially announced:

Dublin
Dusseldorf Weeze
Edinburgh
London (Luton)
Milan Bergamo
Oslo (Rygge)
Stockholm (Skavsta)

[pee]

Okay. The updated destination list (to be announced within one hour from now):

From 13th December:

Düsseldorf (NRN)
Oslo Rygge
Stockholm (NYO)

From 14th December

Dublin

From 16th December

Milan (BGY)

From January 10th (2011)

Edinburgh
London (Luton)


Hope it will be the same as official list.

[pee]

It became official a few minutes ahead of my post.
One may also wish to consider that Estonia as a country has a population of less than 1.4 million.
Right. But again. Don't underestimate the Russian population living to the East of Estonia. The same way Russians fly from Tampere (the distance from St. Petersburg to Tampere is as much as 470 km), they'll be flying from Tallinn too (360km). Only Lappeenranta is located better (195 km), but here FR is slower to develop.

The distance is a very relative concept, I would say.

[jpthomas72]

One may also wish to consider that Estonia as a country has a population of less than 1.4 million. Lithuania, where Ryanair became the dominant carrier following the demise of FlyLAL in 2009, has a population of around 3.3 million ...though VNO in total still has quite a bit more passengers than KUN. We know FR can generate demand out of nothing, however I believe there are way less EE immigrants e.g. in the UK than people from LT and LV, as EE has a stronger economy, and they have rich Finland just a short ferry journey across. Maybe FR count on the Finnish to use their TLL services. NYO will surely work, strong ties to Sweden (esp banks). BTW, again 'my' airport HHN has been ignored for a new interesting route in favour of NRN. Note LON is also in competition with EZY who go from STN. BTW, TLL-KUN isn't that close really, 620km by road. People do fly VNO-TLL (some even via RIX), as other transport is a bit tedious (no trains). Still, wise FR doesn't do KUN yet, not clear this would work. One thing they could try is SXF which EZY used to serve from TLL, but gave up a few years back. BT won't be amused as this attacks their idea of a mighty Baltic base at RIX under their control.

[racedo]

It became official a few minutes ahead of my post.

You are very rarely wrong on route news:ok:.

[jpthomas72]

Don't underestimate the Russian population living to the East of Estonia. So they all get visas so easily ? Russian-Estonian relations used to be quite troubled. Estonia is now Schengen treaty area, so e.g. the Germans and French will have a close eye on their policies w.r.t. visas for Russians.

[pee]

So they all get visas so easily?
Well, pretty easily. The Finnish embassy for example has just outsourced the entire process, so it's possible to get (Finnish/EU) visas without any queues that used to be there before.

Our Tarja Halonen is quoted as saying "Finland will back Russia's bid to scrap the visa regime with the European Union,"

"We are doing all we can and will continue to do so for the introduction of a visa-free regime," Halonen said at a news conference after talks with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
Btw., look at this picture (cute, isn't it?) http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/2010_07_21/halonen-helps-medvedev-conquer-the-visa-regime-2010-07-21_l.jpg

Medvedev said "the time was ripe" for a visa-free regime between Russia and the EU. "It is the spirit of the time," he said.

[dublinaviator]

Whats all this stuff about PSO, LDY, etc to do with Ryanair? If you want comment on those issues, a DUB-Belfast route was tried a few times and failed. Even less chance now with the new motorway. A new road is out to tender from the border to Londonderry to link with the much improved link from Dublin to Monaghan. When completed, admittedly a few years away, it will blow a Dub-Ldy air route completely out of the water.

Sure even now, Aer Arann can't fill an ATR 42 from Dublin to Derry, so I could see that route getting the chop long before the new Dublin-Derry motorway is finished.

[barrymah]

This is old stuff, RyR have been pushing the EU to rationalise the law covering employees, and/or to sort out the consequences of free movement of labour. Of course the EU is ducking and diving, it is VERY sensitive political issue.

As usual MO'L is pushing, and he is threatening to leave MRS, and Bauvais, and then kick Sarkozy in the a*se and so on. Technically, staff can be contracted in any Member State and work in another, under the terms of their contracts.

The bottom line? save money. The consequences? race to the bottom, no union rights, etc., etc.

Bye, Barry

[FR-]

Interesting few posts regards MRS, but my question is why is every UK base on a UK contract and with Ryanair UK Ltd?

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair will close there Kerry base on Oct 31. They didn't announce this when they announced cuts to DUB flights.
Routes will be operated by HHM and STN a/c:

SUN - MON - WED - FRI
Dep - Frankfurt Hahn - 08:00 - Arr Kerry - 09:00
Dep - Kerry - 09:25 - Arr Dublin - 10:15
(will operate Dublin - Frankfurt Hahn - Dublin)
Dep - Dublin - 16:45 - Arr Kerry - 17:35
Dep - Kerry - 18:00 - Arr Frankfurt Hahn - 20:50

TUE - THUR - SAT
Dep - London Stansted - 07:30 - Arr Kerry - 09:00
Dep - Kerry - 09:25 - Arr Dublin - 10:15
(will operate extra Dublin - London Stansted - Dublin)
Dep - Dublin - 16:45 - Arr Kerry - 17:35
Dep - Kerry - 18:00 - Arr London Stansted - 19:25

STN will operate on SUN also but will return to STN at 09:30.
LTN will operate daily with LTN based a/c.

[Seljuk22]

Ryanair will close there Kerry base on Oct 31. They didn't announce this when they announced cuts to DUB flights.
They did: Ryanair will, from 31st October, switch its Kerry based aircraft to another EU base where Govts are reducing airport fees and welcoming tourists instead of taxing them. Ryanair will, from 31st October, continue to operate four routes from Kerry to Dublin, Frankfurt Hahn, London Luton and London Stansted.”

News : Ryanair to Cut Kerry-Dublin Flights From 3 to 1 Daily (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-to-cut-kerry-dublin-flights-from-3-to-1-daily)

[MidlandDeltic]

"Interesting few posts regards MRS, but my question is why is every UK base on a UK contract and with Ryanair UK Ltd?"

Presumably dates back to the fact that when Ryanair started in the UK they needed a UK AOC to operate domestic flights (prior to full deregualtion), so a company was set up to achieve that. Once in place, the cost of changing becomes prohibitive.

MD

[Jamezon]

EDI-TLL doesn't seem to be on sale? Is it a certain time they go on sale?

Anyone know the timetable for flights?

[james170969]

Does anyone know when Ryanair will start selling flights for next summer?
My cousin wants to fly to Alicante next May. At the moment Easyjet and Jet2 have their summer flights for sale from Glasgow but Ryanair have yet to release their Prestwick summer flights.

[dublinaviator]

EDI-TLL doesn't seem to be on sale? Is it a certain time they go on sale?

Flights don't start till January 10th. I just tried to book a flight there and its working grand.

Anyone know the timetable for flights?

M--T-S-

[jamesp]

I'm trying to book flights to lpa in mar/apr but to no avail. Do fr work on a 6 month booking period only or is it when they can be a+¥ed to. Whats the difference between ezy/fr etc... And the likes of monarch. Bmibaby flybe( flight only ). My point is you can book most flights for next year but ryanair you cant

[eu01]

The same way Russians fly from Tampere (the distance from St. Petersburg to Tampere is as much as 470 km), they'll be flying from Tallinn too (360km) I tend to agree. Nevertheless, I wouldn't say the same about most of Western Europeans.
Myself, I could consider flying via Tallinn to, say, Helsinki, but the road travel from TLL to St. Petersburg would be frankly too far to be considered - except if looking for some kind of extreme adventure ;). If - and I'm not so sure about it - Ryanair plan to encourage us to travel to Russia via anything in the EU, the only acceptable place seems to be Lappeenranta, situated less than 200 km from Sankt Petersburg. Any offer of that kind should however be carefully tailored for such a purpose. FR could evaluate e.g. providing the regular coach services from LPP to former Leningrad in co-operation with a local partner (coach enterprise/ travel office). I believe that giving pax a choice of further travel to Russia by coach in connection with the booking process would be a viable solution, worth trying. Otherwise most of the passengers will come from Russia only.

[alm1]

To consider flying from these remote airports you have to think not as a plane passenger but as train/bus passenger. Instead of 30 hour train journey your are getting 8 hour train journey and 2 hour flight - for a total trip duration of say 15 hours including transfers. The duration of the trip is reduced by half and the total price is also probably significantly lower - that looks like a very good deal.

And if you think that is still a tiresome journey think about that before Ryanair we had multiple daily direct schedulled bus departures from Kaunas to London full of travelers.

[racedo]

I believe that giving pax a choice of further travel to Russia by coach in connection with the booking process would be a viable solution, worth trying.

Problem with that is the Russian visa restriction tend to make inward travel problematic.

[davidjohnson6]

Problem with that is the Russian visa restriction tend to make inward travel problematic

Ryanair do not need to and almost certainly would not want to act as the principal on any coach journey. The trick would be that Ryanair has a link on its website, pointing to a coach company that runs coaches between Tallinn airport and St Petersburg.

The coach company has a clear message on its website saying that if Estonian / Russian immigration don't like you, then you either don't get a refund or they'll put you on the next coach with a spare seat back to where you came from. Because they are a coach company rather than an airline, all the airline-specific legislation from the EU does not apply - i.e. no refunds, and the coach company does not get fined for bringing you across a border without a visa.

Ryanair would make money, a) by filling more seats on its flights, and b) the coach company paying a commission based on each ticket sold via the Ryanair weblink

One should of course consider, that processing a coach load of people at the EU-Russian border will take a substantial amount of time - there's always one person whose papers are complicated for which everyone else has to wait.

I have no idea whether this would actually generate worthwhile substantial income for either of the 2 companies

[barrymah]

"Interesting few posts regards MRS, but my question is why is every UK base on a UK contract and with Ryanair UK Ltd?"

Presumably dates back to the fact that when Ryanair started in the UK they needed a UK AOC to operate domestic flights (prior to full deregualtion), so a company was set up to achieve that. Once in place, the cost of changing becomes prohibitive."

'cos UK is a "cheap(er)" place to recruit/employ?

The issue is really about EU law and employment. MO'L is up to his usual tricks, he's working towards a judge forwarding the case to the ECJ, no French judge will do it, they know they'll lose....

[racedo]

The issue is really about EU law and employment. MO'L is up to his usual tricks, he's working towards a judge forwarding the case to the ECJ, no French judge will do it, they know they'll lose....

I believe there are more people employed across EU with French companies on French contracts than the small numbers employed by Ryanair.

This has nothing to do with Employment law as if it did then France would have acted against companies many years before who have people employed in France under UK contracts.

This is about looking after Air France purely and simply.

[eu01]

Public would trust O'Leary to lead Ireland out of recession?

Questioned during the telephone poll by Independent/Quantum Research the respondents were asked which non-politician they would trust most "to do the right thing in some form of national government". The Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary emerged a clear winner with 30 per cent of voters. "O'Leary would be perfect, can you imagine him allowing the waste that goes on in our public services?" was the view of one male respondent.

Based on the independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/public-trust-lenihan-to-lead-us-out-of-recession-2362702.html) news.

[danieln]

Press conference in Brussels tomorrow afternoon 5. Oktober, with Michael O'Leary himself. Someone any idea what this will be about?

[Sober Lark]

O'Leary would cheer them up by making them believe they were on a €10.99 annual tax rate. Seriously in my view the chap has 9 of the 10 core compentencies of good leadership but why on earth would he want to. He's done his bit and they wasted it.

[racedo]

Ryanair’s booked passenger and load factor statistics for September 2010 are as follows:



Sept 09
Sept 10
Increase
12 mth to Sept 10*
Passengers (m) 1
6.12M
6.84M
+12%
71.6M
Load Factor 2
85%
86%
+1%
82%



September passenger numbers

[TSR2]

Well the 306 cancelled flights on the 29th September is bound to have a positive impact on load factors either September or October assuming of course the inconvenienced passengers rebooked on later date flights.

[befree]

As the pax have paid I suspect they are counted in Septembers pax total even if the sectors were cancelled. When they rebook they could be counted again. Ryanair traffic figure are nothing to do with people flying but just that they had a seat paid for. The airline "carred" loads of pax when all flights were grounded.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Does "carred" mean travelled by car? Because that's what lots of folks had to do when they were grounded!

[racedo]

As the pax have paid I suspect they are counted in Septembers pax total even if the sectors were cancelled. When they rebook they could be counted again. Ryanair traffic figure are nothing to do with people flying but just that they had a seat paid for. The airline "carred" loads of pax when all flights were grounded.

The usual insight into Ryanair..........not.

As planes didn't travel they are not counted as passengers, neither were they counted in April BUT you know that anyway but need an anti FR post.

Why does their success disturb you so much ?

[davidjohnson6]

I very much suspect that Ryanair's definition of passengers fits in with general accounting principles. I'm sure there are others out there who know far more on accounting on me - if I've got it wrong, please say so !

As most know, Ryanair generally do not give refunds unless they absolutely have to. Thus, if you pay for a flight but do not show up, Ryanair gets to keep your money. In accounting terms, this means the funds paid by the customer can be "recognised" as revenue.

If on the other hand, Ryanair cancels a flight, the airline is obliged to refund the money paid back to the customer. These funds cannot be recognised as revenue.

The volcano in the spring was extraordinary, and it is likely that many airlines will show their monthly stats to include both recognised revenue and also separately "customers who booked but had to be refunded because of the airspace closure".

Investors and auditors may well accept the volcano as being an extraordinary event, and will take the separate "what if there had been no eruption" figures when examining the company's overall health. Air traffic control strikes are infrequent but not unusual and would not be deemed extraordinary. Thus a company should not normally expect to be taken seriously if it manipulates the stats for ATC strikes.

[DutchBird-757]

Let the speculation begin... ;)

RYR interested in up to 300x A320 NEO aircraft.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97bf5f8c-cf25-11df-9be2-00144feab49a.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97bf5f8c-cf25-11df-9be2-00144feab49a.html)

And why wouldn't they look at it?

[potkettleblack]

Old news. Airbus doesn't need him, it has plenty of backlog orders. They told him so much about 6 months ago when he went down to Toulouse to try and extract the deal of the century from there. I think they were quoted as saying that they would be more than happy to sell him as many airframes as he wants at their list prices. They are not stupid people and they won't have appreciated the fact that they had concluded a deal to sell him A320's only for him to fax it to Boeing and be undercut at the last minute. Boeing doesn't need him either. Nor do either manufacturer want him flooding the 2nd hand market with his wares reducing the fleet values and the knock on effects this has to the leasing market.

[befree]

Nor do either manufacturer want him flooding the 2nd hand market with his wares reducing the fleet values and the knock on effects this has to the leasing market.

This is spot on. MOL got is 737-800s at a big discount but will now be stuck with them. Boeing and Airbus need as many airlines to keep in business as possible and giving cheap planes to MOL just kills other orders.

The best thing for Boeing and Airbus is for Ryanair to go under in 5-10 years time. This will allow for many new startups and the refleeting of the old boys.

[pwalhx]

Befree, like them or loathe them how can it be the best thing for anyone for an airline to go under. Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard.

[racedo]

Befree, like them or loathe them how can it be the best thing for anyone for an airline to go under. Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard.

Its reflects a desire on his part and pretty much any positive news on FR on here is always met by the "they are going bust" mentality. Think its called Exemployee Syndrome.

[jpthomas72]

New Norwegian.no base at HEL:

https://www.norwegian.com/about-norwegian/press/press-release/?itemid=489317&languagekey=ee0f6538e0cbfa0c1c263411f5f7e46c&pressroom=uk;ee0f6538e0cbfa0c1c263411f5f7e46c&typeofmedia=pressrelease

This should take a good chunk out of FR's possible customer base for TLL. Now it could really be just EE which seems too small to sustain a base, or depend on the Russians. Plus not great news for 'St Petersburg West' LPP. I don't get why FR is so reluctant to expand in Europe's biggest economy (and also the second and third), but go to all the fringes instead. They will learn eventually where the money is.

[pee]

This should take a good chunk out of FR's possible customer base
But here we can also see a specific attitude so typical of FR. Could have harvested quite much out of some niche areas where they didn't have any real competition in lo-co sector. Like in Finland, but not only here. Even after a very quick investigation of the load factors and price levels on some routes, one must realize that in many cases there was much more money waiting to be earned. But no, FR was just hesitating, waiting for the support from communities, for lowering the airport fees, and so on. Building the route network based on whims and wishes rather than any careful analysis of customers' needs, deals-motivated mostly.

FR remains a very successive airline, no doubt about it. Thanks to their financial discipline and hard negotiation skills. But in the same time they did not manage to avoid many obvious flaws in regard to the development strategy and potential opportunities, lost in some cases. Also as a non-basher, have to take notice of this.

[befree]

Befree, like them or loathe them how can it be the best thing for anyone for an airline to go under. Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard.

Ryanair kill off other airlines and overall do more damage to the viablity of other airlines than departure taxes or ash clouds. When Ryanair expand at an airport other airlines downsize both there and in the region. just look at Birmingham/Coventry.

[pwalhx]

Reading the Birmingham thread you get the impression that it is Ryanair that have downsized there and not other airlines, however I look forward to the evidence to the contrary. Regarding Coventry I very much doubt the demise at that airport had much to do with Ryanair and more to its proximity to Birmingham and other local issues.

Don't get me wrong I am neither a fan of of Ryanair in the way Racedo is for example or do I particularly dislike them, they fill a need in the market, however I do feel your comments were unfair to the people who rely on FR for their livelyhood.

Closer to home where I live the feeling was they may lead to the demise of Jet2 ate Leeds/Bradford, this certainly dorsnt seem to be the case.

[frfly]

You cant blame BHX/CVT's problems on Ryanair. Just look at EDI, massive FR expansion great news for Edinburgh and Scotland, but this has had no effect on other LCCs such as easyJet and Jet2 who are also doing very well running side by side.

BHX is simply an airport feeling the effects of the recession more than most, this is not Ryanair's fault. Passenger's want bucket and spade for their annual holiday and arent as willing to take 2/3/4 weekend city breaks. Those who can afford that drive to London etc and use those airports.

Once the good times come again expect all airlines to expand in the UK again.

On a note away from the usual Ryanair bashing...this winter sees a change in schedules dramatically across the network, with turnarounds increasing every now and again from 25 minutes up to an hour etc...I wonder whether this is effective planning to buffer the usual winter delays after a summer which has seen punctuality badly effected by strikes all over Europe. There's also lots of gaps which should allow for new routes to be announced. Still a strong rumour CPH is to see some Ryanair flights.

Also - 3 new bases are set to be announced in the coming weeks if all the rumours are to be believed, talk is 2 Canary's and Palma are high in the running.

[daz211]

Well I must be missing something and in a big way ...
Why are Ryanair so wrong in getting/wanting massive discount on A/C when they place such a big order ...
If I was buying 10 fleet cars for my company I would want a huge discount and if I was buying 300 I would want MASSIVE discount and yes if I could show Ford that vauxall were offering me a good deal I would expect Ford to beat that offer.

Am I missing somthing or is it just the Bashers throwing their toys out of their prams again.

[davidjohnson6]

daz - the reason Airbus were not happy with MOL faxing Boeing the details of Airbus' offer is probably down to
a) What is often referred to as "commercial confidentiality", and
b) Airbus would have expended a lot of wasted time and effort on putting together a deal with Ryanair, meaning that they had less time to spend on airlines that were serious about buying from Airbus

Commercial confidentiality is the concept that if you want me to tell you lots of commercially sensitive non-public information that my rivals would like to hear, then I expect the information to be treated confidentially and for you not to dislose it. In a similiar way, if a company has many employees, the staff expect their boss not to tell everyone else in their team their salary.

As for b), how do Airbus know that if they spend time in 2011 putting together a deal with Ryanair, that Ryanair will actually treat it seriously and not just use it as a negotiation tool with Boeing and then tell Airbus to get lost. In effect, are Ryanair just being timewasters, or are they really serious about buying 300 A320-family aircraft ?

If you tell Ford the details of the offer on a huge fleet of 100,000 cars that Vauxhall were offering (remember that a 737 is worth over 1,000 times that of a car), you may well find that Ford improve their offer and you go with Ford. If you need to buy some more cars five years later, and in the meantime the fleet salesmanager at Vauxhall finds out what you did, then Vauxhall will be much less interested in talking to you - in effect Vauxhall may tell you to either pay full price for their cars or stop wasting their time.

[Jamie2k9]

Shannon Airport is taking legal action against Ryanair for breach of contract as they failed to meet passenger numbers.

RTÉ News: Shannon taking legal action against Ryanair (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1006/shannon_ryanair.html)

[compton3bravo]

I have noticed that Ryanair have already cancelled a large number of flights next week some four days before it is due to begin. A number of services are not to French airports but overfly. May I suggest that it is the middle of October and a bit quiet just before half-term so lets not operate or try to operate because the revenue will be down.
I bet a lot of other airlines will try to rearrange flights and show a bit of guile and ingenuity and try and get round the problems especially flights to/from Spain - but Ryanair don't do that sort of thing do they!

[WHBM]

how do Airbus know that if they spend time in 2011 putting together a deal with Ryanair, that Ryanair will actually treat it seriously and not just use it as a negotiation tool with Boeing and then tell Airbus to get lost. In effect, are Ryanair just being timewasters.
Determining this is one of the joys of being in the sales team for any large-scale product, and is a skill that both Boeing and Airbus will be leaders in. Believe you me, both manufacturers get many approaches more potentially wasting of their time than Ryanair !

[racedo]

Determining this is one of the joys of being in the sales team for any large-scale product, and is a skill that both Boeing and Airbus will be leaders in. Believe you me, both manufacturers get many approaches more potentially wasting of their time than Ryanair !

Correct which is why I said last year that Airbus Exec who gets FR's business is set up for life with bonuses.

Despite the public statements no manufacturer will turn their back of a 200 plane order irrespective of what they think of the purchaser.

[Facelookbovvered]

Post 9/11 MOL took a huge gamble & called it right, he got probably the deal of the decade and Boeing kept it plants turning and no doubt some soft loan loans in there as well!

Unfortunately for MOL the time is not right, both Boeing & Airbus have huge backlogs of orders (Boeing are increasing NG production to 38 a month!!)

Having said that a large order would be fought over by both sides and if Ryanair are to grow they probably need to split the order to keep both parties on their toes price wise.

I very much doubt that MOL will get the same level of discount from either player, they don't need it that badly, unless he has the balls to order a 1000 units!! or he could go to the Russian's or China?

The next money maker could be the regional market place, think what he could do in Europe with 500 dash or ATR's? lots of unemployed pilots (many trained and drained by Ryanair)

I was taxing out of EMA to Turkey the other day and the Ryanair "T" was doing circuits, when asked whether it was a touch and go the the training Captain said " no a full stop" quick as a flash someone came on the radio and said " credit card empty"

[rewdan]

stn ibz back on from december, made a second home owner very happy!

[WHBM]

Having been one who, along with pee has written here about the potential of Lappeenranta for Ryanair, the current schedule leaves me cold. Destinations are Dusseldorf and Brussels (well, their nearby equivalents). Who decided on these then ? For those in St Petersburg the prime destinations of choice in Western Europe would be London, Paris, and either Milan or Rome in Italy. Quite why these didn't make the cut but the lesser destinations did I can't imagine.

Also looking at the FR "timetable", Dusseldorf Weeze seems just once a week on Sunday, and as for Brussels Charleroi I can't get it to show me anything at all. That's not a road to profitability at all.

[eu01]

Don't forget about me ;) - pee was first indeed, but I've backed this idea as well, already in 2006 in Ryanair-2 thread (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/235196-ryanair-2-a-14.html#post2848740). The ideal place and still underdeveloped. But even if NRN-Weeze wasn't the most fortunate choice, Lappeenranta did take a second place among all destinations served from NRN in July if ordered by the load factor, which was 90% on this route.

Ryanair tends to react very fast having struck a good deal somewhere, places several planes at once there and starts flying partially loss-making routes just to celebrate this deal. On the other hand, many interesting and decently profitable destinations with great prospects are developing very slowly as a "few euro per pax" deal is missing.

[virginblue]

I guess it has to do with subsidies. Probably these do not come exclusively from the Finish end and NRN and CRL were willing to cough up some money, whereas those airports you mentioned were not.

[Coquelet]

Charleroi - Lapeenranta will be flown on Tuesday and Saturday, beginning November 2nd.

[pee]

Tampere will get a new connection to Italy. The route from Pisa to be announced soon.

[eu01]

On Wednesday (October 13th), MOL will hold a press conference in Marseille. He is expected to make known his future moves concerning the base. Taking the planes away?

[AvWRup]

Full story here (http://bit.ly/a2f490)

So any guesses on what airport will go first?

[Jippie]

As per Ryanairs press release:
Ryanair Announces Closure of Marseille Base
4 AIRCRAFT, 13 ROUTES, 200 JOBS LOST AT MARSEILLE,AS AIRCRAFT AND JOBS SWITCH TO SPAIN AND ITALYNews : Ryanair Announces Closure of Marseille Base (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-closure-of-marseille-base)

Not to much of a surprise.
Routes(10) from other bases will stay, routes to non-bases will disappear. They also note aircraft go to Lithuania, must be Kaunas getting (an) extra plane(s).

[lfc84]

what a load of rubbish from ryanair. if they were confident of winning the case, happy with route performance they would not use this as an excuse to cut staff, reduce routes and try and come across holier than thou.

[barrymah]

RFI's take -

http://www.english.rfi.fr/sites/english.filesrfi/rfi_logo.png
Published on RFI (http://www.english.rfi.fr (http://www.english.rfi.fr/))

Ryanair flys from Marseille base over illegal working practices case

Created 2010-10-13 17:15
By RFI
France - Ireland



0



Low-cost airline Ryanair announced on Wednesday that it will go ahead with the closure of its base in Marseille. The Irish carrier had threatened to pull out because French prosecutors accused the airline of illegal working practices.




“We are very disappointed at this decision by the French authorities to initiate proceedings against Ryanair’s base in Marseille (http://www.mp.aeroport.fr/) [1],” said Ryanair’s boss Michael O’Leary (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-closure-of-marseille-base) [2].
French prosecutors claim Ryanair had illegally declared 120 employees as working in Ireland, when they worked in France.
“These are not French jobs, but rather Irish jobs on Irish aircraft,” said O’Leary. “This ill-judged legal action has therefore cost Marseille and France jobs, foreign investment and lost visitors in circumstances where our Marseille base fully complies with EU regulations for transport workers.”
On Saturday O'Leary threatened to leave (http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20101009-ryanair-boss-oleary-says-airline-may-quit-marseille-over-court-case) [3] in a letter to the Le Parisien newspaper.
Thirteen routes from Ryanair’s Mediterranean hub will cease to operate from 11 January 2011. The airline’s four aircraft and 200 staff will be moved to airports in Spain, Italy and Lithuania. Ten routes will continue to operate to and from Marseille, including Brussels, London, Madrid and Rome.




http://www.english.rfi.fr/sites/english.filesrfi/imagecache/rfi_169_large/sites/images.rfi.fr/files/aef_image/tag%20reuters.com%2C0000%20binary_PM1E6AD14T201-BASEIMAGE_0.jpgMichael O'Leary outside the Court of Appeal in London, 13 October
Photo: Reuters/Stefan Wermuth






Ryanair boss O'Leary says airline may quit Marseille over court case (http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20101009-ryanair-boss-oleary-says-airline-may-quit-marseille-over-court-case) [3]

Ryanair profits slump on volcanic ash crisis (http://www.english.rfi.fr/europe/20100720-ryanair-profits-slump-volcanic-ash-crisis) [4]

Air France files complaint against Ryanair (http://www.english.rfi.fr/economy/20100312-air-france-files-complaint-against-ryanair) [5]




Source URL: Ryanair flys from Marseille base over illegal working practices case | RFI (http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20101013-ryanair-flys-marseille-base-over-illegal-working-practices-case)
Links:
[1] Aeroport de Marseille Provence - Vols, horaires, destinations, acces, parking (http://www.mp.aeroport.fr)
[2] News : Ryanair Announces Closure of Marseille Base (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-closure-of-marseille-base)
[3] Ryanair boss O'Leary says airline may quit Marseille over court case | RFI (http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20101009-ryanair-boss-oleary-says-airline-may-quit-marseille-over-court-case)
[4] Ryanair profits slump on volcanic ash crisis | RFI (http://www.english.rfi.fr/europe/20100720-ryanair-profits-slump-volcanic-ash-crisis)
[5] Air France files complaint against Ryanair | RFI (http://www.english.rfi.fr/economy/20100312-air-france-files-complaint-against-ryanair)


<img id="lightboxImage">



FWIW, as I said before on here, I think he's bluffing and trying to make a European case out of the issue. Does anyone know if there are other similar situations? i.e. Irish contracted workers working somewhere else? If there are he'll move on them too.
In the MRS situation he'll have plenty of local support, the mayor of MRS has said it will be a disaster, and as the mayor of the third city he has clout. Also, ryr has clattered the others on the Maroc routes, and there are a lot of Maghrebians in MRS.
Meanwhile he'll save money, that's his raison d'etre.

[racedo]

I think it will go to Euro court with the likely result of France getting smacked down as its France trying to interpret laws in its favour but that is likely to come back very quickly and bite them.

[compton3bravo]

Somehow I don't think so. If you are working in France or any other country you should expect to abide by their laws whether you like them or not. Typical Ryanair -throw the toys out of the pram if they don't get there own way - at this rate there is not going to be many prams left!
Just noticed also that all their domestic routes from Marseilles make up part of the routes closed - funny that it wouldn't be competition would it - no of course not! Trouble is I am just an old cynic.

[Billy the Cheese]

First to go will be Glasgow, then Stansted, then Southampton, then Aberdeen.......just leaving the two capital airports and the ferrovial debt substantially repaid with the remaining two airports aquired for a fraction of their value....unbelievable but brilliant !!

[MidlandDeltic]

While I see the logic Billy, I think that none will be divested for several years as BAA drag this through appeals in the UK and possibly Europe. Stansted is a cash cow, and divesting of either of the lowland Scottish airports will severely damage them at the other. Southampton and Aberdeen are relatively small beer, and probably not of concern either way.

Time will tell!

[davidjohnson6]

Never mind the gunboats thing, I suspect this may come down to what accountants refer to a person's tax domicile. It can be a grey area, but essentially domicile tries to describe the country of which someone is a permanent resident or has strongest ties. It is not the same as nationality.

A UK soldier sent off to Afghanistan would normally expect to return to the UK after fulfilling their duty, and thus would normally be seen as domiciled in the UK.

An Italian citizen or permanent resident working for a Spanish airline flying all over Europe, but who maintains a long term home in Italy and spends the majority of their nights during an extended period (e.g. a year or more) sleeping in Italy would normally be treated as domiciled in Italy.

There are of course infinite variations on this "what if...". However, for all but the wealthiest of individuals it's usually pretty clear where a person is domiciled.

Domicile in particular looks at a person's long term intentions rather than what someone is doing for a few weeks.

There's a good introduction to this at:
Domicile (law) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_%28law%29)

[compton3bravo]

Excellent point David. I now live in Spain for most of the year only returning to the UK when it is really necessary although retaining my UK nationality. While I live in Spain I abide by Spanish laws and if I worked I would expect to pay taxes etc unfortunately some people (especially from the UK) who come to work here think they can get away without paying taxes etc and if found out are heavily fined and also their employers.
My point I was trying to make is you cannot cherry pick what suits you. People in the UK would be up in arms if say French or Spanish people who worked there did not pay taxes.

[Jippie]

Ryanair (and employees) pay the taxes in Ireland. They argue that the crew work on Irish aircraft and thus work in Ireland most of the time. Seems reasonable and every EU country agrees, except France.. But it's not only Ryanair having this problem with France.

[DinoCraft9]

News : Ryanair Announces Closure of Marseille Base (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-closure-of-marseille-base)

[INKJET]

On this rare occasion i find myself agreeing with the French! We have Ryanair aircraft based in the UK ie the crew live here use local services such as hospitals GP roads yet pay no UK tax or NI on their earnings, which in turn puts UK reg airlines at a disadvantage. If you night stop other than in a hotel at your employers expense then you are resident in that country, this is not the same as a lorry driver sleeping in his cab.

Perhaps if the UK adopted this attitude the loss to the UK revenue would be less, in effect UK tax payers are subsidising Ryanair passengers whilst we cut the RAF and child benefit!!

[INKJET]

On this rare occasion i find myself agreeing with the French! We have Ryanair aircraft based in the UK ie the crew live here use local services such as hospitals GP roads yet pay no UK tax or NI on their earnings, which in turn puts UK reg airlines at a disadvantage. If you night stop other than in a hotel at your employers expense then you are resident in that country, this is not the same as a lorry driver sleeping in his cab.

Perhaps if the UK adopted this attitude the loss to the UK revenue would be less, in effect UK tax payers are subsidising Ryanair passengers whilst we cut the RAF and child benefit!!

The republic of Ireland is no more than a flag of convenience for MOL

Some of these crews never go to Ireland other than to see the tax/NI scam accountant

[racedo]

Ryanair (and employees) pay the taxes in Ireland. They argue that the crew work on Irish aircraft and thus work in Ireland most of the time. Seems reasonable and every EU country agrees, except France.. But it's not only Ryanair having this problem with France.

Correct as do the BA and Virgin crews pay tax in France or UK or the SAS crews in France, Spain or Scandanavia or the Lufty crews in France, UK, Spain etc etc.

The idea that no French people are doing it is a joke as French multinationals have French people on French employment contracts work in overseas locations so clearly with immediate effect other countries can now treat French employees including Diplomats as their taxpayers.

[tangarizie]

Sorry about creating this thread, but... where is Ryanair thread? It simply disappeared.

[racedo]

Probably became very contentious and Mods took the sensible view of removing it for a couple of days or possible permanently.

[airbourne]

(passes paper bag to racedo) Easy now, just breathe! It will all be back to normal soon. :ok:

[Sober Lark]

Give them a low cost terminal at MRS and everything else they want and they still shut up shop and go with a months notice. Talk about burning bridges.

[befree]

Ryanair will be glad if we cannot discuss the many routes being closed, the legal battles being lost and the big fall in profits that could come next year. I assmue we will be able to say now much better Easyjet is doing compare to un-named other airlines.

[eastern wiseguy]

You must admit racy ole bean that you do NOT tolerate any off message posts regarding RYR. How much would it have cost the public for an enquiry in to a runway extension at BHD the building of it (maybe) before he would cite some spurious unfair practise and bugger off?

Looking forward to next years results:p

[Sober Lark]

Why would anyone want to censor the Ryanair thread? Are their engines hanging by a thread or was it because of unrestrained deviltry? Either way, I question if censorship is the right approach.

[mickyman]

When I read in the papers of a web-site that
criticized everyones favorite airline I didnt relise
they meant this PPrune one - hence the vanishing
act!!!

MM

[tangarizie]

It's shame. In my opinion, censorship is never the right approach.

Thank you for your answers, guys. Now, let's move on...

[Alsacienne]

And nothing can stop Michael O'Sneary opening his mouth in the UK press on something that doesn't really concern him to court more publicity - perhaps to avoid the MRS débacle ............

BAA ruling through the eyes of Ryanair's Michael O'Leary - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/alistair-osborne/8062540/BAA-ruling-through-the-eyes-of-Ryanairs-Michael-OLeary.html)

[IJM]

When I read in the papers of a web-site that
criticized everyones favorite airline I didnt relise
they meant this PPrune one - hence the vanishing
act!!!

MM

Mickeyman - was the recent media coverage not referring to the "ihateryanair" website, or whatever it is/was called?

Wasn't aware of any reference to PPrune?

[wawkrk]

Where is Ryanair thread? It gone, where it gone.:rolleyes:

[J-Man]

Theres probably an extra charge to view it.:ok::E

[Evileyes]

Apologies to all. My less than adept keyboard manipulation last night caused the Ryanair thread to become invisible for 24 hours.

No grand conspiracy theory, I simply bolloxed it up!

On a completely different topic, lets leave Allied Servicemembers out of this discussion. They are performing wartime deployed service and are not in any way domiciled employees. To state otherwise is falatious, and is demeaning. I assure you it is offensive to them. please desist from doing so.

Cheers,
Evileyes

[sitigeltfel]

It is incredible that it was the unions who brought the case against Ryanairs employment contracts. Here we have organisations, who profess to protect employees and their jobs, actively campaigning to put their members on the dole. They should have known that MOL does not make threats, he makes promises, and he has done it before. If they do not play the game by his rules, he will take his ball away.
I notice the chamber of commerce is trying to fight the courts ruling. At least someone is standing up for common sense.
If you want to see how much Ryanair means to the Mp2 terminal operation, have a look here....

Horaires du jour des vols à l'arrivée de mp2, en temps réel | mp2 Aéroport Marseille Provence (http://www.mp2.aeroport.fr/arrivees-du-jour.html)

[racedo]

It is incredible that it was the unions who brought the case against Ryanairs employment contracts.

Nope as remember most Unions sole purpose is to protect the interests of the people holding positions of power in the Union.

[FA10]

On this rare occasion i find myself agreeing with the French! We have Ryanair aircraft based in the UK ie the crew live here use local services such as hospitals GP roads yet pay no UK tax or NI on their earnings, which in turn puts UK reg airlines at a disadvantage. If you night stop other than in a hotel at your employers expense then you are resident in that country, this is not the same as a lorry driver sleeping in his cab.

Perhaps if the UK adopted this attitude the loss to the UK revenue would be less, in effect UK tax payers are subsidising Ryanair passengers whilst we cut the RAF and child benefit!!




Inkjet, you are totally wrong on this - RYR employed crew based in the UK have a UK contract, earn Pund Sterling and pay their taxes and NI in the UK.
That regulation comes from the old days when FR set up its first base out of Ireland and today might not even be necessary any more - however retaining RYR UK obviously saves a lot of discussions!

[compton3bravo]

Disagree Racedo again I'm afraid - I was a proud member of a printing union for over 30 years and took my turn like everybody else to try to look after the affairs of union members and - yes - the interests of the organisation which employed us - trying to improve working conditions, pensions, sick pay etc and the profitability of the company which was in everybody's interests. When I started work as an apprentice at 15 years of age the boss of the company in York was the most obnoxious person I have ever come across in my life and I thought have I got to put up with this for the next 50 years - fortunately I didn't.
So Racedo all union members are not Bob Crowes and not all employers are like Michael O'Leary - thank God.

[iwhak]

Whilst not having great affinity for unions, I have to once again disagree with Racedo. The sole reason MOL is fighting this is because French employment law is very stringent, once you employ somebody it is virtually impossible to get rid of them!

[shesaidcaptain]

AIR FRANCE GUYS PUT RYANAIR INTO COURT BUT BEAR IN MIND THAT AIR FRANCE IS ALSO ILLEGAL WITH CITYJET, AND AIRPORT SLOTS AT ORLY ARE GIVEN TO AIR FRANCE GROUP BECAUSE THE MANAGERS GIVING SLOTS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME AS THOSE WHO WORK AT AIR FRANCE.

PATHETIC :yuk:

[lplsprog]

Isn't that the same at Heathrow? (BA managers on the slot committee):E

[Sober Lark]

You always hear that a camel can go 500 miles without water. How come nobody's ever bothered to see how far they can go with water? Give the camel a chance. France isn't the easiest of places to operate in but worth cracking.

[BFS101]

Has anyone heard rumours that FR are to keep on the BHD - STN after the end of October?? The flights are not on sale, however a BHD based captain has said that he is to be put on standby for the first week in November for this route. General rumours also circulating among the BHD based cabin crew mentioning similar.

Other rumours are that if FR do pull all routes as announced, they will be back to Belfast within six months to a year?? Wouldn't see the logic in this decision myself, but that's the chat at BHD apparently.

[virginblue]

It is worth keeping in mind that easyJet has been through this drama already. They lost in court and transferred all contracts to French jurisdiction - without going bancrupt.


As for Air France and its influence in the slot allocation process, suffice to say that the head of the German slot co-ordinating bidy is an ex Lufthansa employee.

[INKJET]

I was referring to the increasing number of contractors, oh i guess you don't count them as Ryanair employee's?

[N1/TOGA]

shesaidcaptain, you're wrong...Bobigny prosecutors have charged Cityjet for the same practices today...(in french), Netjet too...

Le Figaro - Sociétés : Une filiale d'Air France-KLM poursuivie pour travail illégal (http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2010/10/15/04015-20101015ARTFIG00355-une-filiale-d-air-france-klm-poursuivie-pour-travail-illegal.php)

[flyzen]

Yes four compagnies were in the "same basket" on same time ... easyjet, ryanair, cityjet and netjets

[eu01]

Jean-Claude Gaudin, the Maire (Major) of Marseille wrote today a letter to Nicolas Sarkozy demanding the repeal of the decree on the labour law introduced in 2006 by Dominique de Villepin that was originally meant to protect Air France.

In his letter, Mr. Gaudin says the decree is obsolete and "should be revoked in order to give French airports equal opportunities with other European competitors without the loss of jobs in France".

[dublindispatch]

The BHD thread appears too have that information re BHd-STN

[eu01]

From Radio Netherlands Worldwide (http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/amsterdam-airport-hubbub-over-hub-status):
For many people it’s a prime example of how a small country can manage to compete with the big guys: the Netherlands’ main international airport, Amsterdam Airport Schiphol. But a majority in the Dutch parliament thinks the great reputation of this international ‘hub’ is being undermined as the airport tries to woo budgets carriers such as EasyJet and Ryanair. Parliament wants the airport to drop its plans to charge these cheaper airlines lower landing fees, whilst raising the charges for transit passengers, those for whom the airport is not the final destination but a place to change planes. The argument for this demand is that it is the well-established airlines, including ‘home’ company KLM, which depend most on this transit traffic. […]

A parliamentary majority believes the airport itself is now undermining its own position by giving preferential treatment to cut-price carriers and not to the bigger airlines with their worldwide networks. Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf quoted Christian Democrat MP Sander de Rouwe saying, "Schiphol has launched an airline war with the major companies […] This strikes at the very heart of the carefully established hub operation.”

[Padanian1]

Since when cutting prices and favouring competition is considered bad practice?

[racedo]

Jean-Claude Gaudin, the Maire (Major) of Marseille wrote today a letter to Nicolas Sarkozy demanding the repeal of the decree on the labour law introduced in 2006 by Dominique de Villepin that was originally meant to protect Air France.


So nothing got to do with employment law just a law designed to protect one player........ aah protectionism at its best.

Gonna be fun seeing it in EU court.

[Sober Lark]

Methinks Ryanair will just have to bypass France for a while. You'll never get more than a 35 hour week out of them. Never get more than an age 60 retirement. Never get more days worked than days off. Never give up Air France.

[chris647]

I would just like to point out that I work for Ryanair Uk Ltd (as do ALL Ryanair staff within the UK)
And we pay tax NI ect, ect just like you!

[Padanian1]

Oops... somebody screwed up the booking system

http://www.qualitymeteo.com/ryan.jpg

[pee]

Ouch, a stumble apparently. But anyway, the summer timetable announcements are comming. New routes from Scandinavia: RYG-IBZ, RYG-BZR (Beziers), RYG-PMO.

[0523 cov man]

are ryanair doing cvt-dub route 0523 covman.

[NorthernCounties]

Any firm date for the Summer announcments, I know they didn't annouce Derry's summer routes until mid december last year.

And any suggestions which routes may be added to LDY this summer, Malaga, Palma? Would be great to get a City route too, I.e Reus, or Paris (Although I know they don't base any aircraft there.)

Regarding Coventry, I haven't heard of any intention to serve there as they have a full & comprehensive service to Bham...

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair are planning to cut flights from Hahn. Berlin is alsomst certain to go and some other routes.

It was announced that the multi-million investment to build a maintenance hangar and crew training facility at the airport has has stopped until further notice.

Tageblatt online | Nachrichten - Hahn: Ryanair will Flüge streichen (http://www.tageblatt.lu/index.php/europe/45933.html)
(in German)

[jpthomas72]

Yes, there is talk in the local press around Hahn. However, nothing is official yet. Domestic German flights are obviously hard-hit by the new air-tax, which is 8 Euro per one-way flight and due to it being domestic, VAT is added, all-in-all 19 Euros on a return fare. This is on top of the 19% VAT we anyway have for all domestic flights. Berlin is the only domestic flight from Hahn. Lubeck was tried, but short-lived. Hahn already had plenty of especially UK routes chopped, also Polish and Hungarian (Budapest now served by Wizz). Berlin is 3 times a day, which to me always seemed excessive, as all surrounding airports also offer Berlin. Ryanair's route network from Hahn already is so rationalised that I'm personally not too worried about its future. Plus they keep threatening, people in the region get a bit tired of that.

[jpthomas72]

A correction: HHN-SXF in the winter season currently 13 departures per week (twice daily except Sat). Bookable until 26th March 2011. They surely can't change this anymore, esp with the Berlin New Year's Eve tourism. April 2011, sure, different situation then. But as said, there are doubts how much sense this route makes even without the new tax. Even current prices over the holiday period look low, I mean the base-rates. People read the news and stopped booking ? Or instead booked from CGN. Any other route they'll chop from HHN wasn't making money, regardless of those 8 Euros. The sun destinations, also STN, are very popular and busy (look at HHN's parking lots).

[eu01]

The prevalent trend in route development nowadays: no marketing support, no flights.

Ryanair announced today that it will close all three international routes from Santiago de Compostela - to STN, HHN and CIA - from January 11, 2011. The reason for this cancellation is Xunta de Galicia's refusal to assist in promotion and marketing of the region in Germany, Italy and the UK. Ryanair will contact each passenger affected by the cancellations and will offer the reimbursement or the option of flying from another airport in the Ryanair network.

The cancellation of the international routes from Lavacolla means also Ryanair's withdrawal from its base creation plans at SCQ.

[wesleyscott]

any news on when FR will release their 2011 schedule?

[Jamie2k9]

Very shortly. All routes from Oslo Rygge for summer 2011 are on sale.

[Janu]

I flew with Ryanair this morning for the very first time, not that bad actually. On-time arrival and all for just £5!

[OltonPete]

Quote

"I flew with Ryanair this morning for the very first time"

I tried flying Ryanair as well this morning but not for the first time
and the flight was six and half hours late. As it was a day trip it
wasted my time, a days leave, as well as train and parking fees.
At least they credited my CC back - I think!

I am sure the pax on Wednesday nights Krakow were pleased to get
away even if it was over 12 hours late (yes on "my" aircraft).

Not the first time FR have let me down - I suppose some people
never learn ;)



Pete

[h&s]

Interesting developement for HHN and not surprised if FR pulled out as the base is a financial nightmare. BHD was another dog and is now gone. MRS was bad, gone. I wouldn't be surprised if BOH, VLC, MLA, BRE or PSR are in trouble as well as soon as new contracts / levels of subsidies would need a new agreement. APD or contracts are a nice excuses to get ride of dogs, and I am 100% sure than if belgium decided to introduce an APD, Ryanair will never leave CRL, same for CIA or BHX

The last few months has been very unusal for ryanair as it used to be the predator, but has conceed big defeats recently, for example at BSL, BHD or BUD. The low brain airline will still make a profit this year for sure as it is the most subsidised airline in europe, but I really hope than more and more airports will decide that "enough is enough" and will cut the "marketing" help.

[situatedness]

It's interesting that you state that "I work for Ryanair Uk Ltd (as do ALL Ryanair staff within the UK) And we pay tax NI ect, ect just like you!".

When I took Ryanair to court, their first line of defence was that I could not sue them in the UK because they had no employees in the UK, and that all their staff are offshore because they work airside.

It struck me as nonsense but they had some kind of court judgment that appeared to support the claim.

However they settled out of court so these claims were never tested.

I am not surprised that France is trying to stop the practice. Although there are lots of silly protectionist practices in France I am not sure that the idea that people who live in a country should pay taxes in that country is that unreasonable ...

I would be interested in further clarification from FR staff.

[jpthomas72]

if belgium decided to introduce an APD, Ryanair will never leave CRL same for CIA or BHX You surely mean _will leave_, I mean instantly ? Sure, don't get us BHX folks started on our so-called FR-base. BHX these days is surely not a FR stronghold. The whole situation isn't so different from when they were at MAN (Lots of BE plus legacy carriers to their hubs and some longhaul), just that at BHX, they retreat slowly, not with a big bang. Should try NRN-BHX while it lasts.

[Star dust]

What are the prognosis of Long-Haul LCC carrier? what can make it work..many have tried but very few ( AirAsia that i know of) why?

[Aeronave]

According to an article at the LVZ (Leipziger Volkszeitung) Ryanair is negotiating with the MDFAG (Mitteldeutsche Airport Holding/ Airports Leipzig and Dresden). :ok:

[MME4eva]

Any news if FR are operating the Durham Tees-Alicante flight in Summer 2011?

[dublindispatch]

Is BHD-STN defo defo dead!! Lots or rumours from lots of places that it may be kept? ANy one any knowledge of this?

[eu01]

Austria is the next European country to introduce its Flugticketsteuer - air ticket tax - from January 1st, 2011. Looks like a potential chance for Bratislava (most probably to be wasted though, as FR will likely insist on not covering the costs of using the airport).

[Jamie2k9]

Bratislava is in Slovakia

[eu01]

Bratislava is in Slovakia Oh dear, that's what I mean. The low-cost airport for Vienna across the border (no tax). This year I've been to both Bratislava and Vienna, so I've used the coach and rail connections between the two cities.

[OltonPete]

Jamie2k9

Quite correct but I think you are missing the point. I would check just how close Bratislava is to the Austrian border;)

Pete

[ryan2000]

About 30 miles at most. Vienna Bratislavia about 1 hr by train.

[RooCat]

hi all, just a general question regarding ryanair's position in the south-west of France. Is it likely that Ryanair will increase their position at Carcassonne by basing a plane there or increasing services or whether it will do the same at either beziers or perpignan or possibly even start from Toulouse for Summer 2011? Or is it wary of increasing its position without hurting its Girona/Barcelona base

[Jamie2k9]

without hurting its Girona/Barcelona base

Since Ryanair opened a base in BCN, this winter Girona will have routes dropped and reduced flights on others.

[h&s]

Plus they just closed their base in MRS because of a french reglementation which is applicable at all french airports, so no base for CCF for sure in the near future.
For TLS, very unlikely as not very Ryanair model / airport not very keen to give massive incentives. Ryanair opened BOD last year, but it was because of the new low cost terminal, and TLS has a new terminal but not a low cost one, so can't really see why ryanair would come.

[FR-]

Has anyone else heard of from within fr that we are planning to open a base in Romania from April 2011? If so what routes? And I keep hearing about Turkey for summer 2011.

fr-

[EISNN]

Not that I've heard anything but there won't be any operations to/from Turkey to anywhere except the republic of Ireland if it's true as FR is an Irish registered company. The reason is that Turkey does not have any aviation agreement with the EU. Morocco does though hence as an Irish company FR is able to operate from anywhere within the EU to Morocco.

If you'd like to read more click on the link below.

EUROPA - Press Releases - EU-Morocco aviation agreement: Morocco joins Europe in the aviation field (http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/06/1770)

[Boeing 77W]

I would be interested in further clarification from FR staff.


From a flight crew perspective, there are very few who are actually employed by Ryanair. Currently, all pilots set up their own Irish Private Limited Company. You then sign a five year contract with Brookfield Aviation whereby you agree to outsource your companies services to one of their clients, in this case Ryanair. As the only qualified employee of your company (has to be registered in Ireland) you do the work. Once the five years is up, and if they choose, you can then be employed directly by Ryanair in Dublin. Basically to start with your self-employed.

I believe there is a similar deal with Cabin Crew whereby, once trained through external organisations, CC are employed by a CC agency such as Crewlink and Workforce.

Then when you take into consideration the ground handling roles, which are all outsourced...I'm not too sure where the comment below comes from...:confused:

"I work for Ryanair Uk Ltd (as do ALL Ryanair staff within the UK) And we pay tax NI ect, ect just like you!"

Hope that clarifies things!

[FR-]

Cabin crew tend to be 50:50, i myself have a fr contract and have done for a few years now, the other 50% of cabin crew are with crewlink or workforce. And for the pilots, it depends on what base you are for the % of f/d on an fr contract. EMA does have a high number due to EMT staff flying out of EMA, but again its still about 50:50.


Last time i check the number ryanair had on its books was 7,828

[Boeing 77W]

Cheers FR :ok:

I'm still somewhat of a newbie!

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair to announce cuts tomorrow (Oct 27) at all German bases. A press conference in Frankfurt. It also looks like Frankfurt Hahn will be the worst hit.

[DILLTHEDOG]

Just had an email from a friend with a list of 240 Ryanair flights / sectors cancelled on Thursday due to French ATC strike ??

How many Pax is that going to P off ?

[Jamie2k9]

At least 50,000 passengers

[jpthomas72]

Some news coming through now about a 30% cuts at HHN for summer 2011 compared to summer 2010. Being a former frequent user of HHN, I should say that compared to last summer, there were already many cuts anyway, e.g. BHX, MAN, BTS, PRG. So the real effect is smaller, still nearly 3 million passengers at HHN. They seemed to have run out of ideas for their trial-and-error route planning at HHN, which drove people back into the hands of more predictable companies at FRA and CGN, even LUX. HHN can't be too disappointed about this, and maybe talk a bit more to Wizzair. As every passenger at HHN costs the tax-payer money (15 million deficit per year), one might even wonder if less passengers (flight movements) mean less deficit ?

[jpthomas72]

Unofficially rumoured: Cuts for summer 2011 are:
Agadir, Berlin-Schönefeld, Danzig, Göteborg, Klagenfurt, Prag, Santiago de Compostela, Sevilla und Breslau. If true: Klagenfurt was always on the brink, lived on Austrian tax money plus now the Austrians also have air-tax. Prague and Santiago was already cut anyway. Berlin is no surprise, never made money and is hit hard by German air-tax and VAT. Gdansk and Breslau/Wroclaw are a loss though. Expect Wizzair to look at this, they have a strong Polish base. HHN will then become 'every village in Italy and Spain plus Stansted and a little Ireland'. How imaginative... 'Auf Wiedersehen, Lufthansa !' of course means 'See you again !', not 'Goodbye'. Some smiles today at the LH/4U and AB HQs...

[Jippie]

Danzig is the German name for Gdánsk. The same is true for Breslau.
To immediately say jpthomas72 is 'deliberately trying to be offensive' is an exaggerated response in my view, probably there's just something lost in translation.

[virginblue]

It is simply a problem of "copying & pasting" and not identifying that the text is not genuin, but was copied from a German website (which uses the German names).

Certainly nothing political.

[boeing767]

The current 532 flights/week from HHN are going to be reduced to 382 next summer. Approximately 1,000 jobs will be lost at HHN. Number of passengers will drop with a million to 2,9 million.

Luchtvaartnieuws: dagelijks actueel luchtvaartnieuws (http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=36798)

[babemagnet]

http://adserver.adtech.de/adserv|3.0|289|1061238|0|277|ADTECH;loc=300;key=key1+key2+ke y3+key4;grp=[group] (http://adserver.adtech.de/adlink|3.0|289|1061238|0|277|ADTECH;loc=300;key=key1+key2+ke y3+key4;grp=[group])
Irish budget carrier Ryanair is blaming the introduction of a controversial German aviation tax after deciding to cut more than a quarter of its flights from its base at Frankfurt Hahn.
The airline is to reduce its stationed fleet at Hahn from 11 Boeing 737 aircraft to eight from summer 2011 and close nine routes: Agadir, Berlin, Gdansk, Gothenburg, Klagenfurt, Prague, Santiago, Seville and Wroclaw.
It says the capacity reduction will also mean operating 382 flights per week from the airport compared with over 530 currently.
Ryanair adds that it will cut 150 pilot and cabin crew positions as a result. The airline says the new German tax of €8 ($11) makes the country an "uncompetitive tourist destination".
It will transfer the three 737s to bases outside of Germany. Ryanair says the German Government should study the "damaging impact" of similar taxes imposed elsewhere in Europe and withdraw the charges, which have also been strongly criticised by German carriers.

[virginblue]

This "1.000" jobs mantra is the usual Ryanair propaganda. The airport has already said only 150 jobs are directly affected and that the airport will not make anyone redundant, but look for other pax and cargo carriers.

[Beanbag]

1000 jobs going in total apparently. Blaming a new €8 tax. Anyone believe that's really the reason?
Ryanair axes 1,000 jobs at German airport - Business News, Business - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ryanair-axes-1000-jobs-at-german-airport-2117956.html)

[threemiles]

Crews won't be fired but go elsewhere with the planes.
FR is punishing the government with their immense purchasing power and right they are.
The tax is ridicoulous and the steep upturn in air traffic this fall will have its imemdiate end beginning next year in Germany.

[ROSCO328]

Smoke and mirrors! Who gives a s**t.

[One Outsider]

there is a difference. True, one starts with an R the other with an F. Meanwhile you're still out of a job.

[GlueBall]

Sounds more like a smoke screen, a convenient excuse to reduce capacity in a market of overcapacity. The £7 tourist tax is not exclusive to Michael O'Leary's train set; it affects all carriers, where the new £7 tax becomes part of the cost of doing business. What will MOL do when the rest of the world adopts a tourist tax.....stop flying? Duh. :{

[Nightrider]

While we all can easily accept that this tax is absolutely nonsense, the aeroplanes will move elsewhere, new routes will be announced, crew will shift, this IAW contracts..... "the employer reserves the right to change the base ....". Floating bases are anyway FRs policy....

[No RYR for me]

Nothing new.... All part of ryanair negotiations... If we dont get what we want we leave...

Ireland 02/09
News : Ryanair Announces Flight & Job Cuts at Dublin Airport (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-flight-and-job-cuts-at-dublin-airport)

Man 08/09
News : Ryanair to Switch/Close 9 of 10 Manchester Routes (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-to-switch-close-9-of-10-manchester-routes)

UK 06/10
News : Ryanair Cuts UK Winter Capacity by 16% (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-cuts-uk-winter-capacity-by-16-percent)

Shannon 09/10
News : Ryanair Cuts Shannon Flights by 21% (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-cuts-shannon-flights-by-21-percent)

[Flying_Frisbee]

Ryanair used to fly daily to PIK from HHN. At the moment they fly approx once every two days to EDI, and have done for a long time now.
The tax is a convenient excuse, I think.

[Phileas Fogg]

The report states:

Budget airline Ryanair is to axe 1,000 jobs

The cutbacks are at Frankfurt Hahn airport

Ryanair will reduce its Hahn-based fleet of aircraft from 11 planes to eight

1,000 staff for 3 B737's?

I'd be making cutbacks aswell! :)

[pee]

Is Ryanair running out of steam these days? Yesterday in St. Petersburg took place a joint press conference of Ryanair & Lappeenranta Town/Airport.

Main points:
- Over 60% of all pax flying from LPP are Russians, great potential
- good load factors on the LPP-NRN route
- Ryanair has been "extremely satisfied" with the development (as usually) and wants to challenge the position of LED Pulkovo Airport. How? By starting "one or two" new routes from LPP next year.
Well, sure, a true challenge indeed. :hmm:

Meanwhile, the Lappeenranta Airport is also negotiating with both Wizz Air and easyJet (and expanding its parking area). While I do not believe U2 would decide to come, Wizz could. If so, as the Russian press commented, "the Irish may be late". Hmm, not only in Lappeenranta, it seems.

With my poor knowledge of Russian I've compiled just two sources, the better is probably this one (http://www.dailyj.ru/articles/2010/10/26/73858.html).

[Jamie2k9]

Did the other German bases survive cuts?

[black kettle]

I'm not involved directly in the industry but I have seen no evidence of FR being in commercial difficulty,at least relative to the whole trade,and from a passenger point of view think it's great we now have an airline with the clout to influence pricing policies at airports and even governments.After all,we pay airlines for our travel and those outside the industry have no interest in the latter two hiking our costs.
I'm quite sure "No RYR for ME" is correct that this is exactly what he suggests,a form of punishment.Interestingly,the three airports he mentions are all in crisis in terms of route/passenger losses,and two have made massive capital investments which are now under-utilised.
Those who await a backdown may be disappointed when it doesn't come from the airline.

[virginblue]

According to the media reports Crawley today only said that there will be cuts at other German airports as well, but that he did not go into detail. BRE and NRN were mentioned as airport with ongoing negotiations. Last week he said that there will be cuts in Germany, but mostly at HHN and less so at the other bases.

Realistically, HHN has been under pressure ever since NRN became a base. NRN simply has the better catchment area and for many people in the Rhine-Ruhr area who used HHN in the past NRN has become the more attractive alternative.

[potkettleblack]

Same old same old. He only works in round 500's or 1,000's. In Dublin there were going to be how many jobs created with his move to Hangar 6? Then how many were "lost" to Prestwick when the DAA and Irish government didn't open up the cheque book for him. No doubt the dole queues in Scotland have now emptied with his massive investment.

FR is punishing the government with their immense purchasing power and right they are.

Ah what purchasing power? Now lets see he flies EI registered aircraft, has crews paid through intermediary agencies who will themselves be paying tax (if at all) in some other jurisdiction, his company pays naff all in corporate tax due to taking advantage of accelerated depreciation on his Boeing orders.

His "purchasing power" certainly had Airbus racing to sign up his business during the summer didn't it? Or maybe not.

[Seljuk22]

CRL base grow very fast the past months/years. Also a reason why HHN is under pressure.

[GobonaStick]

His "purchasing power" certainly had Airbus racing to sign up his business during the summer didn't it? Or maybe not.


My understanding is that both B and A had already mutually assured one another that they wouldn't be put over a barrel by MOL.

[crewmeal]

FR is punishing the government with their immense purchasing power and right they are.

I don't think the German Govt could give a t**s about that. What will be of interest is which other carriers will pick up the routes.

[eu01]

FR is cancelling routes [even] in Spain. At a very short notice will end the STN - Ciudad Real route (from November 11). The reason: the airport manager CR Airports' failure to fulfill the trade agreements (to pay for flying presumably, or whatever it means). Also Santiago de Compostela will not get back its routes. Galician Air Route Committee has held an emergency meeting today in order to re-consider the allocation of its "sponsorship" funds, but Ryanair representative invited to take part in these consultations simply did not appear.

[Cyrano]

Ryanair has been "extremely satisfied" with the development (as usually) and wants to challenge the position of LED Pulkovo Airport. How? By starting "one or two" new routes from LPP next year.
Well, sure, a true challenge indeed. :hmm:

Pee: you know this part of the world well so please excuse my naive question: if Ryanair attacked LED head-on by opening 20 routes out of LPP, is there any danger that they would suddenly face "obstacles" in the form of unpredictable long passport-control checks for Russians crossing the border to travel to LPP, for example ;) ? Who owns LED? The city government?

C.

[Copenhagen]

LED is owned by Fraport and the city government.

[RAT 5]

I thought that when RYR decided to pull out of hanger 6 at Dublin and move it's maintenance elsewhere MOL trumpeted that HHN would be the beneficiary. Is it not also the case that they did, or were going to, pump many euros into a new terminal at HHN? What about plans for it to become a central Europe training centre with sims, cabin crew training etc? I thought there was more to HHN's future with RYR than just 11 a/c flitting in & out. What has happened to all those plans? More toys out of the pram.

[Jamie2k9]

All plans have being put on hold. I think that they will come back to Dublin or London.

[Doors to Automatic]

What will be of interest is which other carriers will pick up the routes

Unlikely any of these routes were sustainable in the long term. You can't create endless demand with just low air fares. Even if the flights were free business travellers need to have a reason to fly and leisure travellers incur other costs aside from the air fare so there is a finite limit to market sizes. Looks like the penny is beginning to drop with FR! Taxes are just an excuse.

[davidjohnson6]

Doors - you may well have a point. During 2009, there were multiple "fly for 1 penny" offers. I bought the tickets, but come the day of the flight, I sometimes decided at the crack of dawn that it just wasn't worth getting out of bed.

[daz211]

Bigger Airports, Connecting flights to New Transatlantic Low Cost Airline based at say BCN, STN, EDI and DUB ...:oh:...

[pee]

LED is owned by Fraport and the city government
About Fraport I didn´t know, the city government is for sure.

I think that in Russia it's still possible to create obstacles to anything if you have the "connections" good enough to get someone high-ranked on your side.
So far no signs of it. The journalists at the press conference asked if there are many pax late due to the border control; "the coaches are on time, sometimes a couple of people (travelling by private car) arrive late, not even every day".

There are also plans to create the daily direct train from St. Petersburg to Lappeenranta (trains do not have to wait) and a bus connection from the border train station to bring pax from St. Petersburg - Helsinki express to Lappeenranta (this "Allegro (http://www.vr.fi/eng/ulkomaat/venaja/palvelut_junissa/allegro/)" high speed train's frequency will be raised to four daily by next summer).
Trains, however, are much more expensive than the airport coaches.

[pwalhx]

Interestingly then at the moment the tax in Gemany only seems to have hurt Hahn is it not applicable at other German airports. Surely this isnt just a ploy by FR to cut back at Hahn and blame someone else? Heaven forbid.

[tangarizie]

2 new routes from OPO announced today:
OPO-CIA from 11th January 2011 (moved from SCQ)
OPO-LRH from 28th March 2011

[tangarizie]

2 new routes from OPO announced today:
OPO-CIA from 11th January 2011 (moved from SCQ)
OPO-LRH from 28th March 2011

[daz211]

Nothing been talked about for a few days, this is not the Ryanair thread im use to :bored:.

[h&s]

I heard almost half of the free free (or 1p) bookings were no shows...
It's not a surprise they used it a lot less this year (can't remenber any of them this year actually whereas they had at least 5 each year in 2007/2008/2009) and MOL finally understood it was a (his) crazy idea. Not surprised either their yields is up as a consequence - o, i thought MOL wanted to sell only totally free air tickets? :p

[jferreira20]

I can't read the new posts from this thread. They just don't appear.

[Jamie2k9]

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