Ryanair - 7

[crewmeal]

Racedo

Most of what you've stated has been covered by pages of comments, especially the BA disputes along with fuel surcharges etc etc. In the Virgin incident I'm sure the crew would have wanted the passengers off the aircraft as soon as possible. (The US Authorities are very strict about this) They couldn't because there was no customs and immigration available. The only thing Virgin were guilty of was diverting to an airport without proper facilities. But the article doesn't mention why they diverted to Bradley.

Facelookbovvered is absolutely right by saying Ryanair has dragged the level of customer service into the toilet. They have proved many times that they don't care once you have bought a ticket. They have introduced charges for everything thereby bringing their service levels to nothing. What do Ryanair offer these days that you don't pay for?

Remember customer service levels are usually set by Companies. It's the individuals who can make or break it.

[INKJET]

Racedo

Reading your posts you appear to be putting the case for a level playing field when judging Ryanair actions, sure other airlines cock up and do let their customers down, i know that if i had the need (for the care of my passengers welfare) to go into the terminal and purchase with my own cash some bottled water because for what ever reason i could not get it through our ground support services companies, then the my airline would not only refund me but would applaud my actions. Can you honestly say that Ryanair would support its Captains in the same way?

I think the point that Face made about Ryanair not needing to behave in the way it does is a valid point, in fact Ryanair is a large and very successful airline,but will dump its passengers at the drop of a hat,i suspect that it knows before departure the yield/cost of every flight and if anyone, Spanish/French ATC, Ash gives it a reason to cancel a flight that probably makes no money then it will do so and it is always quick to blame someone else.

It is my view that they have bought rather more aircraft than they need, and the base a week announcements are more about where they can park for free rather than true route/base development for the forth coming winter.

I have flown with Ryanair a number of times, but view it the same as going to the toilet, its something i need to do from time to time, so lets not confuse them or their standards with the likes of BA or Virgin who set out to provide a service and some time fall short.

That reminds me, i need to pee

[100above]

racedo

You asked if I would post similar on the Virgin forum, but while neither airline can be proud of themselves, they are two quite different scenarios. The Virgin aircraft was diverted to an unfamiliar small airfield due wx and airport authorities prevented the pax disembarking. The Prestwick incident was at a home base with no-one but the company preventing the passengers access to the terminal. The Virgin pax also had water according to a spokesman.

As matherswales pointed out the company are required to look after passengers in the event of a delay. The rest of us play by the rules with the associated costs, while incidents like this show that Ryanair can disregard them with apparently no sanctions - its not a level playing field thats all. I feel for the crew that were on board that aircraft - it must have been a difficult and embarrasing situation for them especially when the police arrived. I just feel it doesn't reflect well on this industry as a whole when over zealous cost cutting leads to situations that could, with a bit of compassion, been avoided for the sake of a few pounds.

[FR-]

racedo, nice to see someone sicking up for ryanair :ok::ok:

Does anyone know how the booked loads are on the greek routes?

fr-

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

SICKING up for Ryanair? Now is that what you really meant to say ... ?

[Nakata77]

oh the irony

[Based]

What do Ryanair offer these days that you don't pay for?

Crewmeal, what do any companies provide that doesn't have to be paid for?

I have flown with Ryanair a number of times, but view it the same as going to the toilet, its something i need to do from time to time

I think Ryanair would be quite happy with this view!

so lets not confuse them or their standards with the likes of BA or Virgin who set out to provide a service and some time fall short.


Also, lets not confuse that BA or Virgin don't provide the service that they do through the goodness of their own heart. Every company's objective is to make a profit, they will provide what they feel is the level of service required to do this on an ongoing basis. This is not an all out defence of Ryanair, just an acknowledgment that they have achieved profitability to date by providing the service that they do. This may very well have to change into the future, maybe not!

[racedo]

Also, lets not confuse that BA or Virgin don't provide the service that they do through the goodness of their own heart. Every company's objective is to make a profit, they will provide what they feel is the level of service required to do this on an ongoing basis. This is not an all out defence of Ryanair, just an acknowledgment that they have achieved profitability to date by providing the service that they do. This may very well have to change into the future, maybe not!

Pretty much agree but clear in the replies to me people see it as when Ryanair make an error on customer service then its seen as deliberate by the company but when its BA losing bags or abandoning thousands at airports because of industrial action well its not their fault so lets excuse it.

[Skipness One Echo]

Bases
Ryanair bases, 1 to 43:

Bases Ryanair | Low Cost Portugal

Thank you Charlie !

[uniform]

@racedo....it's human and it's called snobbery.
They also think milk from Tesco's tastes much better than milk from Aldi's

The best one so far is the one who doesn't like flying Ryanair but he does because he needs too.....as if there are no other options

Good luck, up to 100 million passengers.....

[apaul]

It's time for the usual Ryanair announcement of winter cutbacks from the UK with O'Leary blathering on predictably about APD. News : Ryanair Cuts UK Winter Capacity by 16% (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-cuts-uk-winter-capacity-by-16-percent)

[TSR2]

Just been watching a Ryanair flight from Brussels to Las Palmas which entered a hold east of the island. After about 30 mins in the hold, the aircraft diverted to FUE. However the following flights including a Ryanair flight from Prestwick went straight into LPA. A bit strange.

[BFS101]

@racedo....it's human and it's called snobbery.
They also think milk from Tesco's tastes much better than milk from Aldi's

Milk is a pretty standard product though. Where would I prefer to buy a pre-made dessert, or a ready made food product?? What brand name do I have more faith in?? The quality of the ingredients that make up the final product..

Some call it snobbery, some call it value for money. Good value doesn't necessarily come from the cheapest price or product. That's why people still use M&S food, Waitrose and purchase finest lines at Tesco. Otherwise everyone would be buying Value, or racing to Lidl... Do you honestly think MO'L munches Sainsbury's Basics, because its such good value and still excellent quality, yeah, get real...

But sometimes when that offer is too good to refuse, or you have no other option, you cover up and sneak into Lidl (or use Ryanair).

[befree]

As far a UK taxpayer goes it would be better that FR runs less flights. Ryanair pays no tax in the UK and most of the pax in winter are taking money out of the UK to spend somewhere warmer. It is simple that holiday locations need low airport taxes to get the pax to come but the UK gains from higher airport taxes.

The real killer will be when the EU has a EU wide common tax at around 20 euros per departure.

The other issue is that ryanair hedge about 90% of there fuel requirements. The profitablity of the last 10% of flying will depend on the spot price for fuel.

[racedo]

Some call it snobbery, some call it value for money. Good value doesn't necessarily come from the cheapest price or product. That's why people still use M&S food, Waitrose and purchase finest lines at Tesco. Otherwise everyone would be buying Value, or racing to Lidl... Do you honestly think MO'L munches Sainsbury's Basics, because its such good value and still excellent quality, yeah, get real...


ALDI frequent beats the brands and the so called finest from others, most products come off same production lines as limited number of producers so expensive means you don't get what you want as lets face it paying loads for BA seat and bags is great but when all that money and they go on strike well how much is that premium price worth again.

[Scottish Flyer]

AFSKAP - how can you criticize Ryanair when you never use them. As a frequent flyer I have flown worldwide on nearly 200 airlines and many of them have failed me badly. This year so far I have been abandoned by Swiss and badly let down by Emirates, neither of which were during the ash fiasco. I also had a very bad flight with BA during one of their strikes with a chartered aircraft and rude crew who gave no service at all. I have flown with Ryanair over 80 times and the only cancelled flight I have had was weather related (thick fog at Stansted) and I was politely and efficiently transferred to a flight the following morning. When things go wrong with Ryanair they seem to get lots of adverse publicity. When I fly, my prime reason is to get from A to B safely, relatively cheaply and on time. This Ryanair delivers and is fine for a short haul product. For long haul I would want something better but experience shows that even the best airlines don't always deliver.

[Based]

I didn't criticise Ryanair, I just said I never use them http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Somewhat ironically, despite your obvious disdain for the company, Ryanair still count you as a passenger whether you used those tickets you booked or not!

[teddybear44]

I have used Ryanair and frequently have to collect relatives and friends from STN.

When I used them (once), I found that they did what it said on the tin and nothing more, nothing less. I never found checking-in with them to be stressing. My seatmate was pleasant and overall I did enjoy the outward leg but not so the return leg. Priority boarding....don't make me laugh !

My main problem is that I hate travelling to STN on the M25/M11. It really is a drag either getting myself there to fly or picking up arrivals, that journey is just too darn long and the traffic just too darn heavy. Secondly, adding all the extra charges to the headline price makes it not that attractive on any of the occasions that I have booked for myself or relatives. The on-line boarding pass printing seems an additional chore and frankly....I just can't be ar**d.

In summary, I would rather avoid them, having weighed all the pros and cons up, even if it means travelling indirect. I'm not bothered by MOL's apparent disdain for his customers either but this seems an unusual approach to the people who pay his wages and to which my only question would be...why? I don't get it. Whatever floats his boat.

[cesare.caldi]

Where will be moved the plane from UK base during winter? I bet to Spain and Italy

[apaul]

I expect they will be sitting on the ground somewhere.

[cesare.caldi]

Maybe some plane on the ground and some others moved to european base

[Bournemouth Air]

It is stated in the Local Bournemouth Echo Newspaper that Ryanair is slashing its winter capacity at UK
airports by nearly 16% with Stansted around 17%

Passengers are frustrated as the airline has not uploaded the winter
schedules from Bournemouth as the spokesperson of Ryanair said they are
unsure when they would upload the schedules.

Ryanair are concerned that the UK traffic and tourism continues to collapse
whereas Ryanair continues to grow abroad. They are concerned about UK
tourist tax or airport departure tax.

Ryanair are switching unneeded aircraft from London to European bases due to
less tax costs abroad.

As it says in the Echo - paper version.

[apaul]

O'Leary spewing the usual publicity-seeking garbage - toilet fees, flying standing-up. Bit surprised the Express did not go for the Princess Diana to fly standing-up in Ryanair angle. Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Stand up and fly for a fiver (http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/184126)

[LPFR]

I don't see the benefit of installing these vertical seats on ALL aircrafts though, as on all flights +1h they couldn't be sold.
BUT, if that would ever be allowed and turned out to be a reality I wouldn't mind on under 1h flights for around 5€ as stated.

[CabinCrewe]

Has EDI-SNN been dropped for Winter ? Appears to be unbookable.

[Charlie Roy]

Has EDI-SNN been dropped for Winter ? Appears to be unbookable.

Indeed it would seem so. However Ryanair's Shannon based aircraft is currently showing a gap in the it's winter schedule on Tuesday, Friday and Sunday evenings.

[boyzinblue]

Kerry-Weeze started today.
Henrike Schmidt, Sales & Marketing Manager from Ryanair stated that:
a) it was the first destination from Weeze to the West of Ireland - a pity she forgot that Shannon had been a previous destination from Weeze
and
b) the Kerry region is always worth a visit in the summer or winter - again a pity she doesn't know that the route is not been flown for the winter

Great that the Henrike knows what her employer is at:D

[Jamie2k9]

Kerry - Frankfurt Hahn will also be dropped during the winter also this year.

[anna_list]

Hi Jamie,

Do you know that for sure, or are you using the booking engine as your source?

It is possible that Hahn - Kerry will go into winter hibernation, but at the moment we're only in the beginning of July and the winter season (which starts at end of October) is a long, long way away.

Ryanair will almost certainly tweak their winter schedules time and time again over the next couple of months (although other airlines do this too).

If a route is still unbookable at the beginning of September then we can be pretty sure that it won't be operating over the winter. Until then, it's probably best not to make too many assumptions.

It has been known for routes to be withdrawn from sale and then to be put back on sale again. Some cynics might even suggest that this is a Ryanair "negotiating" technique.

[Jamie2k9]

I under stand this but if a route is operating it will shopw as operating but the day and times won't be up yet for example go to Ryanair.com and look at the Bournemouth routes and they show they are operating but the dys of service and the times havnt been confirmed yet.

[OltonPete]

Jamie2k9

Using that theory would have announced three weeks ago that BHX-Katowice was ending in October but today it is released at twice weekly for winter.

I know what you mean that you can tell if a route is under review or about to be released by the way it is displayed in the booking engine. Believe BHX-KTW was not like that it had gone but only a few weeks later it is back.

Bydgoszcz however still shows the aircraft in the circle and this after three weeks - will it operate will it not?

As anna_list has said very much work in progress.

Pete

[positive]

I'm still dying to know why I can book Dublin to Malaga from Nov 2010 to March 2011 but can't book Malaga to Dublin Nov 2010 to March 2011 except for 5 days over Xmas Low Fares My Ass where's the normal PR crap from MOL about low fares!!!!

[Jamie2k9]

As Ryanair have a base in Malaga they havn't yet decided if the aircraft to operate DUB - Malaga flights will come from there Malaga Base or there Dublin Base. I would give it about 2 - 3 weeks as I was trying to book flights to Pisa and I was able book the outbound but not the inbound. Around 3 weeks lather I was able to book in both directions. FR are in the middle of putting there winter timetable up on there website.

[sam dilly]

Does anybody know what actual routes from Stansted have been cancelled this winter.
I was hoping to go skiing to Bareges, near Lourdes, and Lourdes isnt in the system yet. Has it gone ?
:confused:

[pee]

Regardless of Lourdes, you can always consider Pau as an alternative.

[The SSK]

The Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled that Ryanair can't take over Aer Lingus (upholding an earlier decision of the European Commission) - but they also decided that FR doesn't have to divest itself of the 19% of EI that it already owns.

http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2010-07/cp100072en.pdf

[BFS101]

If FR cannot fulfill its ambition to take over Aer Lingus, do you think they will continue to hold on to their current shareholding, or will this be sold off in the short or medium term.

[davidjohnson6]

There is an argument to say that given that the court has decided that it does not have authority to order Ryanair to sell its stake in Aer Lingus as the stake is considered only a minority shareholding, that Ryanair may well decide to hang on to those shares so as to substanstially weaken one of its main rivals.

With the Govt's 25% and the staff 12.5% of the shares, Ryanair's 30% stake means that any other commercial company would be loath to get involved in Aer Lingus - there are just too many interested parties with very sizeable stakes to push anything through. Whether the Govt would consider selling most of its stake in a year or two's time, I don't know

Thus, if Ryanair holds onto the Aer Lingus stake, and doesn't need the money for any other purpose (and Ryanair shareholders seem remarkably docile on this), then this will end up just grinding Aer Lingus down. While not impossible, it makes consolidation with any other large airline group (e.g. AF-KL) less likely, and the general sense of fear, uncertainty and doubt over Aer Lingus' future may well dissuade other parties from getting involved. Would you buy shares in a company where the board is not the master of its own destiny ?

Essentially, Ryanair keeping its 30% equity stake means that Aer Lingus is put into a limbo like state. Manageable for a while, but long term can only lead to decline.

[JayPee28bpr]

Just to add to David J's points above, Aer Lingus is hugely unattractive to any purchaser. 55% of its shares are held by persons that a purchaser would not want on its own share register, namely the Irish State and Ryanair. The Irish State would dearly love to sell its stake, as it's so desperate for cash right now (all State and semi-State bodies are potentially up for sale). However, which airline would want, or could afford, to make an offer at least 55% in cash (I'm assuming all other shareholders would accept a 100% share swap - very unlikely actually)? Even if there is an airline that would do this, which one could obtain the necessary funding?

Ryanair has already written down its Aer Lingus holding to current market value. As and when the Irish economy improves, and air travel does so in tandem, Ryanair will write back its losses. Ryanair shareholders are pretty sanguine about the losses, I suspect. If nothing else, Ryanair protected itself against competition in one of its key markets (remember when it first bought the shares Ireland was booming and a "proper" owner of Aer Lingus could have provided a challenge to Ryanair). Keeping hold of 30% gives Ryanair a de facto veto on where the Irish State's holding eventually ends up.

I still think Aer Lingus' entire future looks dubious. They've virtually no presence outside Ireland, Ryanair's presence in all its facets makes attracting strategic partners very difficult, and the 25% State ownership causes its own challenges, both in terms of ownership and EU competition/aid rules. Very hard to see how Aer Lingus can remain as anything other than a shrunken reminder of a bygone era in airline management. If Aer Lingus disappeared, would anyone actually notice?

[waffler]

I am sure the several thousand employees, their families,the government who receive millions in taxes every year which is used to pay for the services which you enjoy and the 10 million pax they carried would notice.
I am also sure that whatever business you are in would suffer due to less Irish customers buying its goods or services.So while you are not a fan of Aer Lingus,which is your choice,The benefits of its survival to the Irish economy must be clear now, even to you.

[840]

The Irish Government is planning an asset sale to help with the ongoing deficit. Most semi-state companies are basket cases that no buyer would touch. There are a few exceptions - ESB, Bord Gáis - but not all that many.

Seeing that the Aer Lingus shareholding is one that has a tangible value, it would probably be among the early assets to be sold.

I would imagine they would prefer a trade buyer than trying to float all those shares at the moment.

[vkid]

That could be very risky for share price no? If they couldnt kind a buyer for their share in EI (which is likely with Ryanair owning 30%), if they dumped a load of share for sale surely the price would go way down?

[Nakata77]

ALL BOURNEMOUTH BASED CREW CALLED TO A MEETING WITH THE AIRLINE DIRECTORS IN THE BOURNEMOUTH CREW ROOM TOMORROW.

This cannot be good news. Total withdrawal? Reduction in aircraft base from 2 to 1? It certainly cant be good news if the Director of Personnel is present.

[boyzinblue]

maybe the aircraft in bournemouth are going to leeds?

[chris647]

Agp base to closed for the winter,
All crew offerd unpaid leave for 4 months or move to our new base BCN.

I feel another round of base cut's are on the way. (

[james170969]

The Malaga base just opened a few weeks ago and now they are planning to close it? What was the point of opening it in the first place?

[Cloud Bunny]

Agp base to closed for the winter,
All crew offerd unpaid leave for 4 months or move to our new base BCN.

You sure?? That makes no sense at all. They've been going on and on about how it's so expensive to operate out of the UK and Ireland over the winter and that the aeroplanes will be placed elsewhere where we make money and operating costs are low. Spain for example. As a year round destination Malaga would seem to exceed all their requirements and wishes.
Perhaps the biggest pri*k ever to walk the face of the earth (MOL) has fallen out with them already. Wouldn't surprise me.:ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

Perhaps the biggest pri*k ever to walk the face of the earth (MOL) has fallen out with them already.

*cough* Steady, he does have enough money to be able to afford lawyers you know.

[Noxegon]

*cough* Steady, he does have enough money to be able to afford lawyers you know.

Hmm, are you sure that Cloud Bunny wasn't actually quoting the words of the great man himself? :)

[Cloud Bunny]

Yes you're right that almost sounds like a compliment!! I amend it to smallest pri*k!!
Honestly, I'm sick of this guy now wish he would just do one.
Anyhow, any news on AGP and BOH? Have friends in both and just wondering whats happening. Would be particularly surprised if anything untoward is occuring in AGP.

[frfly]

AGP just reduced A/C as its a summer focus base, therefore some crew offfered unpaid leave (as in most FR bases). I think the same will happen BOH down to 1. As in most UK bases just a reduction as theres no point flying half empty A/C around europe. All airlines do this so its nothing exceptional. FR just want to highlight it this time around to say to the UK and Irish Governments rethink your tourist taxes.

[Jimogr]

Dublin fleet to be reduced to 12 for winter, with the loss of 150 flights a week.

RTÉ News: Decrease in Ryanair's Dublin winter flights (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0708/ryanair.html)

[Facelookbovvered]

Offered unpaid leave, really!!! offered makes it sound like they have a choice?

For the contractor's you can stay where you like, but no flying means no money

Its been said elsewhere but they have more aircraft than they can profitably fly apart from a few months of the year, so it makes sense to park them and opening new bases allows them to do just that very cheaply.

As for the headline's Ryanair creates 1000 new jobs because they have moved an aircraft to Leeds perhaps if the headline was Ryanair cuts a 1000 jobs might be more apt, thankfully because they never create that many jobs they cant loose that many either!

[Cloud Bunny]

Well, the boys at the top have now surely stooped to an all time low in the appalling way staff are treated in this god foresaken company. Have several mates who have done more 'favours' than you thought possible (flying on off days, etc etc) in order to help their cause for a Malaga base then as soon as it opens it closes and they're "offered" unpaid leave.
Disgusting, absolutely disgusting. I can understand the commercial and business reasons for needing to reduce capacity and maximise profit over the winter but to keep this little nugget to themselves while people are falling over themselves to get down there frankly stinks.
Everyone of them should hang their heads in shame - but they wont they couldn't give a ****e. God I'm desperate to get out of here.:ugh::mad::mad:

[Evanelpus]

Could be worse, you could be at ARIK!

[mickyman]

Cloud bunny

You do come over as being 'desperate' - do you not know
where the door is?

MM

[Cloud Bunny]

You do come over as being 'desperate' - do you not know
where the door is?

I most certainly do sir and I'm working hard trying to prize it open and leg it through. Problem is there aren't many options to leg it to at the mo although I favour a move abroad.
The company know this and therefore for the time being are getting away with it. It will however come back to bite them in the bum when things get moving as they most certainly will and they lose a hell of a lot of good guys. I fear though they wont see it that way. Or are just so monumentaly arrogant (as appears the case) they wont care.
Perhaps desperate is a bit strong a word - it's more a case of being so disillusioned with the companies behaviour and so disappointed. This could so easily be such a brilliant job, but it's getting worse and worse by the day. It's for that reason and many others unrelated to FR that I'm working towards getting out at the earliest opportunity.

[TSR2]

Have several mates who have done more 'favours' than you thought possible (flying on off days, etc etc) in order to help their cause for a Malaga base

Could it not have been more of a case of your mates volunteering to move to a 'sunshine' base and it has backfired on them, as opposed to them doing the company a favour.

[RYR738_driver]

Well, the boys at the top have now surely stooped to an all time low in the appalling way staff are treated in this god foresaken company. Have several mates who have done more 'favours' than you thought possible (flying on off days, etc etc) in order to help their cause for a Malaga base then as soon as it opens it closes and they're "offered" unpaid leave.
Disgusting, absolutely disgusting......God I'm desperate to get out of here

Cloud Bunny before this descends into further bashing, has anyone got any facts and/or proof that AGP is closing for the winter. If not, keep your wild rumours to yourself.

Previous information already indicates that Malaga is a 4 a/c base with one extra a/c for the summer period, which is why there are numerous floating pilots who are 'based' in AGP for around 3 months or so. If unpaid leave or BCN has been offered to excess cabin crew, this seems better than having them sit around doing 5 standbys a week don't you think?

Congratulations if you or your friends have done the company a favour. Your not the only ones. Don't forget that working an off day gets you either a working day off payment and/or extra sector pay and it isn't compulsory to work it.

mickyman has some great advice for you, take it.

RYR738

[Cloud Bunny]

Right okay then lets nip this in the bud before it gets personal.
First off I'm not a "basher", trawl through my posts, you'll see I'm one of the more 'sympathetic' posters on here with regards to FR and a strong supporter of the standards of operation that we have here. Like I said, there are many things here which could contribute to it being one of the best jobs you could get in the industry at the moment. However there are elements that are driving guys, including me, to look elsewhere. I'm not going to bore you with it, it's just fact.
If this AGP thing is proved to be the case (and RYR738 if you'd bothered to read this thing properly you'd see it's not my "wild rumour" I am merely commenting on it) then I think it's a pretty poor bit of staff relations to move guys out to a new base and then immediately reduce it/close it for the winter (delete as appropriate). Unpaid leave, relocations whatever - it's just poor practice.
I myself have not had to do the company any "favours" as I am not relocating and have absolutely nothing to do with AGP as a base but I know guys who have gone well above the call of duty with that little nugget dangled in front of them. Maybe I shouldn't give a toss, I'm not affected but I'm sorry I thought we are all in this together and it's nice to show a bit of solidarity and support every now and then. Maybe not.
I shall now keep my opinions to myself and wish everyone a good day.

[davidjohnson6]

I thought "Solidarity" led to temporary marshal law in Poland, followed by the collapse of the regime ?
It's just a case of how much pain you are willing to take for the cause. The regime can make life extremely difficult for you if they choose

[escapeeRYR]

Cloud Bunny, you are definitely not alone with your views. Most of the guys I fly with, feel the same. Excellent post, keep em` coming :D We will never get a union working here, we will never get recognition, so vote with you your feet and do like the rest of us. Get the hell out of there:zzz:

[Bournemouth Air]

Any ideas what come from the Meeting at Bournemouth today

[INKJET]

Cloud bunny (or cloud nine?) your in a hamster's wheel at Ryanair and guess what when you escape there is another bunch of Lemmings ready to take your place. Ryanair have been bashing the circuit all day at EMA today so you wont be missed, if you want to p**s them off then stay, that way your jamming up the production line!

Very clever to be able to have a training dept that is a profit centre in the middle of a recession

[chris647]

Just been told that the BOH base is to close also for the winter,
Not sure what the crew have been offerd.

[Cyrano]

Dublin fleet to be reduced to 12 for winter, with the loss of 150 flights a week.

RTÉ News: Decrease in Ryanair's Dublin winter flights (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0708/ryanair.html)

The RTE report says:
Its Dublin fleet will be reduced to 12 aircraft from 14 and it will operate 850 weekly flights, a reduction of 150 on last year.

Has anyone figured out whether this really means that some routes/frequencies are being cut (and if so, what?), or are they just being served from the other end?

[Stevek]

Bratislava, Prague, Budapest, Bournemouth are being cut for good.

As well as; Almeria, Biarittz, Bologna, Brest, Grenoble, Marseille, Nice, Reus, Rodez, Santander, Seville, Tours, Trapani, Valenica, Zadar being cut till next summer.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Bratislava, Prague, Budapest, Bournemouth are being cut for good.


Do you mean just from DUB or as bases? We need to be careful not to set hares running.......

[Stevek]

Bournemouth is to close for at least this winter.

Budapest, Prague which are not bases are closing for good due to the high charges. With Bratislava some of the routes are being cut, with Dublin being included in those cuts.

[Callsign Kilo]

Listen, does it not become obvious that bases like AGP, ALC, AHO, FAO, TPS etc are all summer focus bases? Take AGP for instance. It is 5/3 in the summer and 5/4 in the winter. Why - because it is seasonal. Productivity is higher in the summer and lower in the winter. Why - because no fecker wants to lie on the beach in the Costas or the Algarve in November. Sardinia and Scilly completely shuts down in October. I remember when TPS and AHO opened. People were offered 'summer' contracts on a 5/3. They would return to their original base at the end of the season. Same thing in place at ORK (of all places) at the moment. Reason being that the extra capacity will be gone come winter. It will be back to one aircraft flying the Cork - Dublin and Cork - Gatwick route each day.

The AGP and FAO base were like the second coming amongst some crew. Life in the sun, long routes, Mediterranean type lifestyle. However why didn't anyone catch on to the fact that the vast majority of people heading here would be of the Brookfield variety. I think only 15 permanent positions were available for flightdeck. Everyone must have known it would be seasonal, surely???? After all, it's the way Ryanair are moving. And in some bases more so than others.

[Callsign Kilo]

Perhaps the Ryanair pilots regularly seen sleeping in airport staff car parks are more clever than we give them credit for....?

Classic :rolleyes:

[Tom the Tenor]

Have to put you right on that one - Cork is not 'Of all cases.' You are making it sound like a hopeless place and somewhere to be pitied and you are only allowed to think like that if you are all ready from Cork in the first place. All other dissenters are offered a blindfold for that kind of negative talk and are dealt with it appropriately at dawn on the First Friday of every month down at the end of 35 at Lios Cross.

Now, unlike prevous years, the Cork aeroplane, yes, alas, the singular frame come the winter will be fully tasked every day - it will be about five out and backs per day to Dublin, Liverpool, Gatwick, Dublin and Stansted. The early morning Stansted will continue to be flown by a Stansted based aeroplane.

As to what is to happen in the winter for the new AGP and FAO bases I am entirely fascinated as to the outcome will be and I will be reading these pages with eager anticipation - after all if they reduce in Malaga and Faro for the winter and stick the aeroplanes back in there for next summer they may well do the same back in dear ol' Cork, boy! Some might not get that last bit but you will just have to ask someone from Cork to explain!

Safe flying!

[Callsign Kilo]

No Tom, Cork is not an 'of all places' part of the Ryanair network. You are misunderstanding the context. The context relates to seasonal bases/destinations. We typically consider Malaga, Alicante, Reus, Alghero, Faro when it comes to that line of thinking. This summer, Cork has been an exception and the first real and indeed formal example of how Ryanair's business model has taken on a new shape for all to see. It was self explanatory that southern european bases would be seasonal, however much will be the same for their northern counterparts. Gone are the days of year round flying, it has simply become cheaper to park up aircraft for nominal fees and have contract crew sitting idle.

Don't worry, Cork will have another frame or two next summer. It's by far an 'of all places' type of place.

[en2r]

With Bratislava some of the routes are being cut, with Dublin being included in those cuts.
Well Dublin to Bratislava is on sale for the winter on the Ryanair website, four weekly - MWFS.

[JonnyBfs]

Does anyone know when the Spring/Summer flights be released? Any new routes from BHD?:ok:

[Stevek]

Well Dublin to Bratislava is on sale for the winter on the Ryanair website, four weekly - MWFS.

Haha, only went up today. I was told last week it wasn't going to happen.

[scotsunflyer]

Gothenburg now to be served 3 weekly from EDI, from 5 Nov, with PIK route dropped

[james170969]

Stansted - dropped. Charleroi - dropped. Gothenburg - dropped. How many more routes is Ryanair going to drop from Prestwick? I wish Prestwick would attract another major airline.

[CabinCrewe]

This is the start of the end of regular pax ops from PIK. The only airline it will attract in the future will be operating aircraft with big cargo doors. The rest of the routes will be at GLA before you can say Michael O 'Leary

[racedo]

Interesting that FR is pulling so many routes previously served in the winter which is indicative that the next phase of the recession is going to be bloody.

The public sector cuts across the EU will reduce the disposable cash for many people not just those employed within public sector but for many companies and industries who have a part of their turnover reliant on trading with the public sector.

Its probably like the UK situation 3 years ago when Tesco was worrying about the impact of Aldi / Lidl on their business model as they were seeing the downturn earlier than many other businesses. There are always indicators of what is really happening out there.

Unless something dramatic happens its going to be a very hard winter for all.

No doubt the anti FR brigade will be feeling smug but perhaps they should consider that if the airlines leading growth within the industry slow down then the ones who were way behind a growth curve may no longer be around.

Just like BA has suffered with the demise of the Premium passengers on their key long haul routes the prognosis for others isn't looking good.

[INKJET]

Racedo
What utter tosh, perhaps it has dawned on Ryanair that they have over expanded going into the down turn when most other airline have reduced capacity

It's a bit like Gordon Brown proclaiming an end to boom and bust!! FFS it didn't pan out that way!!

Ryanair can fill aircraft with people who are willing to pay £12 to fly Byceweeztorpgdanski but not people willing to pay enough to cover the costs when the route/launch aid money runs out

If you follow MOL regular spouting (which you seem to) then he does great in a down because people are looking for a cheap deal, trouble is it isn't that cheap any more unless you travel looking like someone from a Ray Meres program wearing all your clothes and a 40 pocket smugglers jacket, I'd rather stay at home !!

Still think of the money he will make by increasing baggage fee's in July&August to change peoples travel habits( but only in those two months)

It don't think pilots will be sleeping in Airport car parks they have to pay for them!!

[ryanair1]

Excellent post.

Ryanair business model is very disciplined. How come people dont realise that? And give us credit?

[Johnny455]

IN what area will the FR cuts be made in Dublin Cork and Shannon this winter?

[Copenhagen]

perhaps nothing more than "Thanks Scottish executive for building me a new maintenance centre. Now, give me another million or I'll drop my PIK routes."

Whats going on is classic Ryanair. Give me a discount, or i'll drop all my routes, and to show i'm serious...

Perhaps as a double bluff the airport should respond - if less than xx flights daily, then we will close the airport.

[ballyboley]

Ryanair1, any idea whats happening at BHD? Its only a single a/c base so can't really be reduced any further. What about any summer routes? I assume another aircraft and UK routes is out of the question with the taxes situation?

[Based]

The travel tax is just a convenient smokescreen for Ryanair to blame their current woes on while carefully avoiding mention of the real cause of all their troubles.

What specifically are you referring to as woes? The fact that they are reducing overall UK capacity this winter? So what is actually the real cause of all their troubles? Enlighten us. Remember Ryanair exists to make a profit which they achieved in their last financial year (€319m after tax) and at present expect to do so again in the current year.

If you look at the Ryanair website you'll see they're expanding at LBA after announcing there would be no further expansion in the UK until the travel tax is abolished.....unless of course LBA is exempt from the travel tax.....

I think you'll find that it's more that they're just not contracting for the winter period. Sucked in once again by the Ryanair PR you so love to hate!

[mickyman]

ASFKAP - United states of Europe.

Very insular - bit of a comedian - very large chip.

MM

[compton3bravo]

I hope everybody has not forgotten that the tax or APD call it what you like is going up to 12 pounds in November and even more for worldwide and business class. I hear some charter airlines on long haul are withdrawing some of their premium class because passengers will not pay the increase. One easy solution - when going further afield interline to Amsterdam/Paris/Frankfurt/Madrid etc. and just pay 12 pounds.
The tax will not go because UK Limited is broke and the Government needs every penny it can get its hands on.

[Copenhagen]

Lets not forget that Germany is also adding a travel tax.

Economies that need tourism to survive, like spain and portugal will not add a tourism tax as they need as many passengers as they can get.

Countries that provide tourism, like Scandinavia, Germany, Belgium, UK & Ireland will have a travel tax.

Michael also calls it a tourist tax - to wind up the 'little people' perhaps?

[cesare.caldi]

Countries that provide tourism, like Scandinavia, Germany, Belgium, UK & Ireland will have a travel tax.

These country are not only outbound tourism, there is also a lot of inbound tourism

[mickyman]

Thats callled immigration or economic migration - here !!

MM

[davidjohnson6]

cesare - you are correct that places like Scandinavia and UK get a lot of ibound tourists. However, if the residents of a particular country spend more on holiday than inbound tourists, then the country as a whole is a net loser from tourism, and thus an aviation tax of (e.g.) EUR 15 will decrease the magnitude of the net loss to the country

[flyzen]

Regarding taxes it seems that Spain will intoduce a "tourist tax" for canarians flights (source local newspapers)

[ballyboley]

ASFKAP, I mentioned the tax because that is why they say they are not expanding in the UK. If you look at the LBA base apart from Dublin there isn't a single UK/Ireland route - Ryanair are only interested in expanding into Europe and to countries who are making concessions on charges e.g. Spain, Portugal taxes etc. Like it or not, thats how its going. If they start increasing charges, he'll go elsewhere and so it continues. I know everyone on here would love to see Ryanair go bust or whatever else, but believe it or not there is great demand for alot of these services, especially inter-europe routes e.g. between France, Italy, Portugal etc where historically its been high fares and flag carriers.
The numbers of pax I have flown of late has been unbelievable, I can honestly say I haven't flown an aircraft with less than 120pax, I keep a record and the average is 162 (apart from 1 or 2) for at least the past 6 months. This is including a lot of 6 sector days. Obviously we dont know the yield on these but make no mistake - Like them or hate them, Ryanair is expanding and making serious amounts of cash! 319Million Eur is an incredible performance while getting 2/3 new planes a month and in the middle of a recession.

[looot]

"Remember Ryanair exists to make a profit which they achieved in their last financial year (€319m after tax) and at present expect to do so again in the current year."


you are right. But you know why? Because the oil price dropped, so they spend exactly 300 million euros LESS for fuel. Voila, there is they so called "profit". Revenue per passenger is declining, anc. revenue is declining, average ticket price is declining, crew salary is declining etc. So there is no real profit.

[IJM]

I know everyone on here would love to see Ryanair go bust or whatever else

:ugh:

Don't talk nonsense, not "everyone" wants them to go bust!

Even if there are people who don't care much for MOL or Ryanair's practices / "public relations" etc, I think a lot of us would take no pleasure from seeing employees thrown on the dole.

Anyway, it is not very likely that Ryanair will go "bust", even in these difficult times.

[mickyman]

ASFKAP

The people running Ryanair are FAR too clever for you -
give it up and spend your time doing something better.
Your argument is unsustainable by the facts - so move
on - theres a good chap.

MM

[Skipness One Echo]

ASFKAP
The people running Ryanair are FAR too clever for you -
give it up and spend your time doing something better.
Your argument is unsustainable by the facts - so move
on - theres a good chap.


Dude what is your religious attachment to this outfit? Please try and understand the genuine criticism that people have here. They're actually NOT that clever in that they have little sophistication. If the market doesn't fit their B737-800 they bugger off. They are not nuanced, they are merely cash powerful. They can carry a vast volume of people but only by grinding their suppliers into the ground, our ability to fly at silly prices is paid for the people on the ground who work for this "company".

Tell me Mickey, once Ryanair have screwed over every airport in Europe and the intial discount deals run out and there's nowhere new to go, what next? Assume they'll all do a Valencia and come crawling back with more taxpayer subsidy? Look at what's happening in Bournemouth right now. That's not right in anyone's book, business or no business.

The reason I ask is that Ryanair have walked away from mature markets that they could not sustain. If they can't maintain a mature market once the initial period of freebies runs out, given the finite number of new desperate airports out here, what do you see as the medium term challenge to the business model that can't maintain a mature market without unrealistic discounts and subsidy?

I'm something of a Ryanair fan Mickey but you gotta engage in the argument here. The amount of chopping and changing isn't going to be sustainable once the market continues to mature.

[racedo]

you are right. But you know why? Because the oil price dropped, so they spend exactly 300 million euros LESS for fuel. Voila, there is they so called "profit". Revenue per passenger is declining, anc. revenue is declining, average ticket price is declining, crew salary is declining etc. So there is no real profit.

You do realise how idiotic thst is ?
You either make a profit or a loss, Ryanair made a substantial profit when pretty much rest of the industry was losing money./

Love to see you analysis of the airlines who made a loss even when fuel prices dropped.

Number of passengers in last financial year was up lets was it 7-8 million...........funny how you ignore that. Its strategy of holding down prices to grow volumes is pretty much standard in growing businesses but hey what do they know as they only make millions a year.

[Skipness One Echo]

Ryanair made a substantial profit when pretty much rest of the industry was losing money.

On the face of it's that's damned impressive. My question is to sustainability and just how much of Ryanair is underpinned by dimwit regional politicians p***ing someone elses money up a wall at Ryanair.

Look at Prestwick's new maintenance hangar. Basically the Scottish Government is bribing M'OL with my own money (!) When you're playing that kinda gane in the free market you gotta start asking soime serious questions.

Look at where Ryanair have been for a while and what's happening. I think the market is self correcting.

Dublin - mature market - little growth - "government's fault / DAA's fault"
Shannon - dumped - DAA's fault
Stansted - no growth - mature market - BAA's Fault / HMG's fault
Bournemouth - semi dumped
Manchester - mature market - wouldn't lube up for the Ryanair lovin' - semi-dumped -MAN PLC's fault

There's a pattern storing up trouble if you look close enough. The much vaunted economic benefits of Ryanair are just PR claptrap.

Look at Prestwick - reduced to bucket n spade traffic that GLA had years ago - city routes dumped.

Taking the UK and Ireland as a whole, we're caring less and less as the bluster has less and less impact on each iteration.

How much money do the above airports make out of Ryanair? Answer - virtually NONE. They have to allow the likes of WHSmith to charge the punters £££s for the basics once trapped airside to make back the money they lose on Ryanair ops. This is proving to be a sound business model for today but as to sustainable? I doubt that very much.

[looot]

you can increase the pax number every year and in the same time lower the av. fares by 15%, but how long? Until you carry 200 million pax/year completely for free :-)
Total revenue per pax is declining since 2 years: last year by 11%, in 2009 by 6%. That's the only thing counts: revenue/pax.
I know they have terrific success in the past, but in the future they need some fine tuning.

[Coquelet]

I know everyone on here would love to see Ryanair go bust or whatever else,

... said ballybelly : how stupid !
I, with many others I am sure, hope that Ryanair will go on offering us cheap flights, and for a long time. To ROM, NYO, BGY, MAD, DUB, and return for less than 30 euros, I like it.
Back to the pre-deregulation and pre-LCC days, with tickets costing a small fortune ? No, thank you !
Anyway, Ryanair is far from going bust, thanks heaven.

[james170969]

"They have to allow the likes of WHSmith to charge the punters £££s for the basics once trapped airside to make back the money they lose on Ryanair ops."
Skipness I have to agree with you here. However when I fly from Prestwick I tend to spend more time and money landside mainly because I can buy a decent cup of coffee and something to eat on board at Peckham's deli. Obviously I have to go to WH Smith in the departure lounge to buy something to drink onboard. I have flown back from Charleroi twice in the past year and the catering at the new terminal leaves a lot to be desired and it is very expensive. Even if I'm hungry I don't buy anything. I tend to go through security quite late and have something to eat and drink before. If airports like Prestwick and Charleroi improved their catering and shops and also lowered their prices to a more realistic level then I would spend a lot more.
Some people will criticise me for saying this but I actually prefer using Prestwick mainly because it is smaller and therefore there is a lot less walking than at Glasgow. Yes I know there are several improvements that could be made at Prestwick. I would love to see Ryanair increase their destinations from there and also another airline with a base at Prestwick. Maybe that's just wishful thinking!

[racedo]

you can increase the pax number every year and in the same time lower the av. fares by 15%, but how long? Until you carry 200 million pax/year completely for free :-)
Total revenue per pax is declining since 2 years: last year by 11%, in 2009 by 6%. That's the only thing counts: revenue/pax.
I know they have terrific success in the past, but in the future they need some fine tuning.

Have you not been following FR for the last 10 years?

Their stated aim has been to reduce air fares !!!!!!!!!!!!!
A statement of intent time and again carried out.

At the same time they have cut out millions of pounds of cost by focusing on charging for bags and going to online checkin removing a need for checkin desks.

As for the fine tuning well lets see they have increased passenger numbers and total revenues year by year and pretty much gained the competitive advantage in low cost yet somehow they NEED fine tuning.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

The idiot idea that well you can't rely on past performance is funny as lets face it looking around European aviation industry there is pretty few who you can bet the house on that they will provide growth in the future with ample cash to do so.

It seems that quite a few are sucking on bitter lemons because their desire for FR's demise is not happening anytimesoon.

[mickyman]

racedo

I concur with your excellent post.

MM

[barrymah]

I've been following the recent topic of this forum for a while and am provoked into replying because it is obvious the participants are divided into the pro and anti - not surprisingly, but some of the antis are using the ryr thing to hark back to an era which is long gone, and, imo, no loss. When flying first started there were seats arranged like railway carriages and curtains in the windows and obsequious service, like the Titanic. Safety had a role on eliminating the seating layout, economics has had a role in eliminating everything else and bringing flying to what it is, a transport service. Ryr provide that, a transport service, you have a choice....

Airports are, in many cases, for reasons that are not clear to me, state run. That means that economics has no place in their thinking. MO'L rants at the DAA, which has been a political football ever since it was created, and the subject of a number of enquiries for suspected fraud and a retirement home for failed pols. I suspect other airports and their authorities are similar, so are state airlines.

A common phrase today, vis a vis the financial mess, is 'we are where we are' personally I like where we are in the air transport business. I wouldn't like to consider MO'L as someone whom I would call a friend, he is far too pushy for my liking, but he runs a tight ship and provides what I want, an efficient and good value transport service.

BTW, I never eat in airports......:O

[Skipness One Echo]

The Ryanair business model means :

My Cost : I now have to pay to check in luggage when I go on holiday
Family Cost : My family now has to pay to drop me off at the airport as the airport allows Ryanair to fly for free.
Supplier Cost : I now have to pay over the odds silly money in WHSmith as the airport is forced to charge over the odds rent as Ryanair fly for virtually free.
Meal Cost : Extortionate money for food on board.
Human Frailty Cost : Baggage is 1kg overweight, gigantic fine if my
boarding card doesn't scan at security ££ to print out a sheet of A4
Infrastructure Cost : Stansted's Sat 3 would never be built now, the future is queuing in a tin shed.

None of which affects me as I fly alone and with a single rucksack, however that's not most people. I ask again, where the market has seen this in action for a long time, ie in the UK, Ryanair are in retreat. Good riddance to them as well! I agree they've done amazing things to bring down the cost of flying, however they just don't know where to draw the line. Publically challenging a wheelchair service cost is a clue.

There will never be another airport terminal if this model is allowed to grow as the revenue won't be going to the operator. Ryanair forced out all competition at Shannon and now look what happened when the market proved unsustainable. Traffic collapsed and there was no Plan B as no other airline would risk SNN with an FR base. Same with PIK I think.

[mickyman]

barrymah

An excellent post - may I say.

Skipness

Just dont fly with them - okay!

MM

[Skipness One Echo]

Mickeyman I do choose to fly with them and may I remind you that that decision is mine not yours. I am pointing out politely and without too much emotion some serious issues that this business model is having on the industry and our travel patterns. It's not all a sunny upside.

Screaming loudly that the declining market in the UK and Ireland ( the mature markets I am talking about ) is everyone elses fault is interesting to me as it's not very likely.

If they maintain STN-PIK I will fly with them a few times each year, if not then it might be a while before I'm back on board. My concern is the wider impact and the race to the bottom that Ryanair have maintained.

Can you perhaps address some of my questions on why Ryanair is retreating from markets once the free introductory deals expire? Are they perhaps unsustainable without indirect taxpayer subsidy?

[CabinCrewe]

"without too much emotion"
Capital letters and exclamation marks would suggest otherwise...;)

[FR-]

EMA has lost BGY and MJV for the winter, to be honest im alittle shocked that these two are being cut out for the winter. Where will them second home owners go now MJV has been dropped for the winter. Also I think milan is better to visit in the winter, the last few times ive flown BGY its been rammed always 180+. Shame both of these routes had high loads, and not always cheap either.

Fr-

[pwalhx]

The wisest comment I have yet seen on this forum is that it is composed of pro's and anti's and therein is the problem there is no middle ground.

Those who are anti cannot accept anything positive about FR and those who are pro will not accept anything negative. If you post anything that can be construed as even handed you are attacked by both sides.

Therefore there will never be any reasoned debate on this forum.

[Jamie2k9]

Dublin & London Stansted will operate flight to Murcia all year round and all other flights to the UK are being dropped for the winter.

[mickyman]

Skipness

'the race to the bottom that Ryanair have maintained'

What on earth are you on about??

'Ryanair is retreating from markets once the free introductory deals expire'

Seems like common sense to me.

You are too concerned and listening for every mutterance from
MOL - for some reason?? You seem unable to grasp the business
model - you dont have to agree with it but to keep moaning the way
you do is daft.Seems you have the 'British desease' in a big way.

MM

[rpmac]

I turn on and notice "Ryanair" and look to see any news regarding aircraft, routes, bases, etc but most of this thread is a boring waste of time from those who are against Ryanair and those who defend the airline. Now lets see what news about Flybe ......................

[Skipness One Echo]

Mickeyman I have asked a few questions of which you have answered none. I have explained I am happy to fly Ryanair so I am not an anti. I have also explained that I am verry unhappy at the wider impact that the Ryanair business model is having in that airports are introducing a raft of ancillary charges as their business model is forced to adapt to Ryanair's on a "FIFO" basis.

I am quite capable of understanding the business model thank you very much. The main focus of my argument was attempting to engage in a look forward to see what happens when the rest of the Ryanair model reaches "maturity" in the same way that the UK has.

Forgive me if that all went over your head.

The "race to the bottom" is a commonly used industry term explaining the continiuing deterioration in Terms and Conditions of those involved, from Flight Deck, Cabin Crew to the bloodbath that is ground handling in the UK.

I was attempting to quantify that in embracing the Ryanair model so wholeheartedly, as ever we have failed to recognise the price that goes with it. Cheap Fares but outrageous "optional" charges as I wrote above. Hence at the end of the day, I find it cheaper, as I'm London based, to fly BA. This is in itself interesting. Sadly outside of the M25, the rest of the UK does not have that option. I was only aiming to give some food for thought, racedo and mickeyman's religious fervour is increasingly amusing to watch.

[ballyboley]

Can we not get back to talking about "Airlines, airports & routes" rather than this thread going back to the pros, cons and life story of the Ryanair business model? I always regret posting anything on here as the utter tosh that follows means I end up unsubscribing to the thread again. Now staff T's and C's and the infamous "race to the bottom" have been mentioned on here - there is lots of that discussion on the Terms and Endearment thread.
I'm interested in what Ryanair are doing as regards new routes, bases or changes within existing ones and will be happy to comment from the inside on anything I know. Perhaps we could get back to that? Any more info on Bournemouth? I have some friends in BRS who have been moved to other bases for the winter due to it being "overstaffed for the winter" - I know nothing more than that at present. Again, facts would be really useful as opposed to "This is unsustainable so I think the base will close in a year when they stop getting free charges" etc

[Based]

I am verry unhappy at the wider impact that the Ryanair business model is having in that airports are introducing a raft of ancillary charges as their business model is forced to adapt to Ryanair's on a "FIFO" basis.

Charging for dropping people off at an airport regardless of how long you take is a personal gripe of mine. I'm not sure you can correlate charges like these exclusively to Ryanair's presence at airports though. For example, I don't believe they're in existence at a majority of Ryanair's bases. Actually it seems to be largely a UK phenomenon at the moment. Birmingham would be a good example of a UK airport where the majority of current traffic is non-loco, non-Ryanair (probably not how Ryanair planned for it to be right now!) but still they have introduced a drop off fee.

The main focus of my argument was attempting to engage in a look forward to see what happens when the rest of the Ryanair model reaches "maturity" in the same way that the UK has.

Your argument of the Ryanair model reaching maturity (rather than the overall market itself) in certain markets would stand up if there was still growth in the overall market but a decline in Ryanair's market share. I'm not sure that this is the case in Ireland or the UK so I'm not seeing the evidence to validate the argument. Please don't confuse this as me suggesting the Ryanair model is infallible.

Cheap Fares but outrageous "optional" charges as I wrote above. Hence at the end of the day, I find it cheaper, as I'm London based, to fly BA.

I don't find BA working out cheaper in some instances either interesting or surprising, nor should anyone else as far as I'm concerned. Ryanair's headline 'cheap' fares are only for passengers who are prepared to fly within Ryanair's terms and conditions (go to the hassle of getting a prepaid Mastercard, taking only hand luggage, etc.). However, if everyone did this, the company would quickly have to change its current business model or face going under quite quickly. Human nature and behaviour is the reason they don't. As long as certain people insist on paying through the nose for excess luggage, getting their boarding cards reprinted, not checking competitors' prices, etc. then there'll be headline cheap fares available to others. A form of cross subsidisation I guess you could say!

[compton3bravo]

The only comment I wish to make about drop off charges from an ex-Pat enjoying living outside of the UK is three words - RIP OFF BRITAIN!
Also regarding Border Controls - the Shengen Agreement is named after a place in Luxembourg where the agreement was signed - but not by the UK. In theory you can drive from the North Cape of Sweden right down to the border of Spain and Gibraltar without ever having to show your passport. No wonder the people living and working on the Continent of Europe get fed up when they come up to the UK Border - we are all supposed to have free movement. Before the Daily Mail and Telegraph brigade start going on about Johnny Foreigner the problem about immigration should have been tackled years ago but it wasn´t and the UK is now paying the price for letting in too many from outside Europe and the Commonwealth.

[MidlandDeltic]

Charges for drop off / pick up at airports are not wholly due to the LCC phenomenon. Airports (in the UK at least) are being "encouraged" to reduce their environmantal impact, both landside and airside. As a result, they are trying to encourage the use of public transport to and from the airport, rather than large numbers of individual car trips. This applies for both passengers and staff.

I was involved in the work on ground access at East Midlands 3-4 yars ago. Charging for cars has increased, partly due to taxi drivers using the short stay car park for meal breaks, but also due to the reasons stated above. If you look at the increase in public transport provision, both in terms of locations served and the operational times of the services, to the airport over the past 5 years, you can see the quid pro quo. And speaking to former colleagues, use of these services is increasing dramatically.

If you really object to the charge at Birmingham, drop your friends at the railway station and they can get the "Skytrain" free link to the airport - similarly pick up from there coming back.

MD

[mickyman]

Skipness

60+ million passengers - Europe-wide

Why do English people not understand
they are a small % of Ryanairs business?
I would expect more complaints from
mainland Europe than I read - if they were
as bad as some people say.
Time will tell with their business model but
its not my remit to worry about that now -
nor yours.There is always a certain amount
of tittle-tattle within a company about how
the grass is greener etc.
You decide who you fly with.

MM

[EGCC4284]

Is Ryanair returning to Manchester and basing aircraft there

[cuthere]

I've been following this thread for ages, and I have to say, Mickyman and ASFKAP, just get a room and get it out of your system. You'll feel better after....probably!

I'm sure the rest of us have noticed MM is a big Ryanair supporter, and voices his support accordingly. ASFKAP doesn't like Ryanair, and like a broken record keeps informing us of this point too.

Each to their own I suppose, but any chance of some NEWS regarding Ryanair rather than just debating their merits? We all know what kind of operator they are, and anyone, including myself, who flies with them are well aware of what they're letting themselves in for.

P.s. A final thought for ASFKAP. Lay off the smilies/emoticons will you? They're unnecessary! Cheers.

[racedo]

None of which affects me as I fly alone and with a single rucksack, however that's not most people. I ask again, where the market has seen this in action for a long time, ie in the UK, Ryanair are in retreat. Good riddance to them as well! I agree they've done amazing things to bring down the cost of flying, however they just don't know where to draw the line. Publically challenging a wheelchair service cost is a clue.

There will never be another airport terminal if this model is allowed to grow as the revenue won't be going to the operator. Ryanair forced out all competition at Shannon and now look what happened when the market proved unsustainable. Traffic collapsed and there was no Plan B as no other airline would risk SNN with an FR base. Same with PIK I think.

In the UK every airline has been in retreat but as pretty much history tells us that the Airline industry is cyclical. The difference in FR's case is that it has growth opportunities elsewhere to avail of in the downturn.

The last 2 yrs have seen the private sector get it in incomes and jobs, the next 2 its the public sector but in circa 2 years things will change thats not counting the growth from London 2012.

The days of airports being a shopping centre with a runway attached are hopefully gone because the majority of passengers have always wanted to get from A to B quickly and not spent hours sitting in a shopping centre while the airport thinks up other ways to screw money out of them. The retail specialists have earned millions from BAA in funneling people directly into shops, reducing available seating and effectively making it impossible for a person to get through security and direct to a gate without have to go past shop after shop.

I notice you seem to feel that only since the advent of Ryanair have passengers been hard done by, funny that as I can never remember cheap drop off parking at UK's main airports nor can i remember getting value for money food either but I think everybody remembers the extortionate fares with the Saturday night stay requirement a must.

The idea that the industry is a mature one is a bit of a fallacy as kids who have grown up with cheap fares may end up not having that for a few years as family incomes drop, inevitable though given the spending splurge on credit for last 15 years. Ultimately they are the next generation of passengers who not surprisingly will grab the opportunity when old enough to take advantage of visiting wherever they wish. Recessions don't last for ever despite the actions of Governments.

FR's business model relies on being able to move its assets around to get the best return. I can think of few businesses (aside from Cruise industry) that have the opportunity to move capital assets around countries to seek the best return with little or no financial penalty. Labour has always been flexible but rarely Capital assets.

What is funny though is that IF anybody wishes to track back 18 months then the very same people hoping for Ryanairs demise were claiming that adding 40 new 738's to their fleet was impossible and the sky would fall in. They added that plus a few more since and guess what the sky is still there.

I look around at the other airlines serving UK and see their position and lets see
LH - struggling to injest over paid for acquisitions like BMI etc
BA / Iberia - Pension fund with wings with inherent major structural problems that will not go away easily, BA side struggling for funds for new planes
Easyjet - a court fight between founder and company that will go on and on, a new boss who ran a paper, funny why experienced airline people stayed away from the job, risk of implosion and name change is 20/80 but as witnessed on here there are staffing issues
US airlines - Chapter 11 revolving doors
Aer Lingus - new strategy every 6-9 months while blowing hundreds of millions of euros on sacking staff, pointless expansion and covering losses
Flybe - decent niche operator but will get gobbled up eventually which if done by Legacy will not work
AF/KLM - protected domestically in France but that won't last for ever and KLM weak because its a small part of the unit and French don't do partnerships very well
FR - retirement of MO'L prob biggest risk but then again someone following same mantle but with investment in customer service weaknesses and then where does that leave the detractors............making up more reasons to hate them I guess.

[davidjohnson6]

racedo - you are considerably more pro-Ryanair than me and more often than not I disagree with your opinion. Your posts do however, like Skipness, tend to have a reasonably well-argued point.

Could others perhaps try to argue their opinion in a way similiar to Skipness and racedo ? Someone like anna_list doesn't post very often here, but what anna_list writes is usually well thought out, has a good signal-to-noise ratio and makes for interesting reading.

[Jamie2k9]

I wouldn't think so as MAG own Bournemouth Airport and with Rynair's future there up in the air I'm sure MAG are not happy with Ryanair.

Manchester would be better off without Ryanair. Also if they were to return what routes could they operate without having an impact on there Liverpool Base. They could operate routes to Hoilday spots such as Malaga, Faro, Ibiza, Palma etc.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair have reversed there decision to pull flights from Prague on October 30. On there booking system it shows Stockholm Skavsta is operating but not not bookable yet.

[pwalhx]

Jamie2k9 MAG also own East Midlands which has a considerable Ryanair presence.

I do not understand why when talking about Ryanair and MAG people seem to forget this fact.

[crewmeal]

Here we go again. Why can't FR spell out what their fares actually mean? As usual they are misleading.

Ryanair guilty of misleading ads - Home News, UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ryanair-guilty-of-misleading-ads-2026032.html)

[victorc10]

Out of interest, other airlines behaving in exactly the same manner, and sometimes worse include JET2, Easyjet, Flybe etc etc etc

It is normal behaviour, also normal for other companies not related to aviation,

PPRuNe....some interesting stuff, but mostly a place for people to moan about stuff, cheaper than a therapist I suppose.

[Jamie2k9]

Looks like a decision will be made by Ryanair.

Decision expected today over Ryanair's winter Bournemouth schedule (From Bournemouth Echo) (http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8270472.Decision_expected_today_over_Ryanair_s_winter_Bourne mouth_schedule/)

[Jamie2k9]

Routes on Ryanair booking system from Bournemouth (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Bournemouth_Airport) which showed to be operating after October 30 but not bookable have now being taken off and all flights will end on 30 October.

[barrymah]

"Can we not get back to talking about "Airlines, airports & routes" rather than this thread going back to the pros, cons and life story of the Ryanair business model? I always regret posting anything on here as the utter tosh that follows means I end up unsubscribing to the thread again."

Well, there is a choice, but in case you persist can I raise the issue I mentioned in my previous post, namely, the number of airports which are state owned (and monopolies)?? Can anyone explain why this is? Even the BAA which is, technically, private, has been required to divest for being monopolistic.

Mo'L, yes him again, tried to establish a new terminal at Dublin on land owned by a pal, but was shot down, can't remember what the technicality was.

[EKCH2730]

The I've heard a few reliable rumblings from DAA that the Copenhagen base will be announced shortly. Ryanair will also be offering a few other new winter routes in DUB for a change this year.

Any news ragarding a possible Copenhagen base from November? It has been quit for a while, but it might be before the storm?

Personally I still think it's possible, but on the other hand not very likely to happen...

[Jamie2k9]

Any idea on what new routes will be announced from DUB this winter??

[fivejuliet]

Jamie,

Given that its been announced they are cutting back capacity at Dublin for winter it is not likely that new routes will feature

[Jamie2k9]

As Germany plan to interduce a Travel Tax Ryanair has threatened to withdraw planes from Frankfurt Hahn, Weeze and Bremen as well as reconsider plans to fly to other German locations.

German Air Tax Deters Budget Airline Ryanair (http://www.tax-news.com/news/German_Air_Tax_Deters_Budget_Airline_Ryanair____44293.html)

[FR-]

Sir Stelios wins apology from O’Leary

FT.com / Companies / Airlines - Sir Stelios wins apology from O?Leary (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7d33ba14-8fe7-11df-91b6-00144feab49a.html)


Would love to watch him say sorry, shame he wouldnt mean it :E

Fr-

[Exasperated]

Coming soon

Edinburgh - Fuerteventura

The following routes are shown but not bookable

Edinburgh - Grenoble
Edinburgh - Wroclaw

They have been there for a while and may be an error.

Ex

[Jamie2k9]

Edinburgh - Grenoble
Edinburgh - Wroclaw

Are not in the booking system now.

Edinburgh - Fuerteventura is bookable now and operating twice weekly

[RYR738_driver]

Grenoble was only once a week on a Saturday and only for ski season.
Wroclaw stopped a while ago and along with Carcassonne was transferred to PIK.
Good to see EDI-FUE. With BCN starting in September, potentially CPH if Ryanair can negotiate, and the fact that we will be keeping capacity on some routes that used to be done by FlyGlobespan, it should keep the 6 a/c busy. Always rumours floating about of more a/c, but drastically running out of room on the South East Apron. Work on the much needed second link between RW12/30 and the SE apron is starting in September

[Jamie2k9]

RYR will also fly to Gothenburg City Airport from Edinburgh from November 5 but will lose Shannon from 29 October.

[Hull City AFC]

Does anyone know why the Ryanair flight to Alicante tonight left before the inbound plane actually landed at Leeds. I know this route operates Alicante-Leeds-Alicante, so where did they get the plane from? Did they use one of the Leeds based ones? If so is the Alicante based one remaining at Leeds?.

[Jamie2k9]

The inbound a/c was delayed and it arrived at:

FR9078 ALICANTE 1930 LANDED 23:46

The RYR flight from Ibiza arrived at:

FR2487 IBIZA 2120 LANDED 22:13
so the crew of the Ibiza flight used that a/c and boarded and done everything else and when the inbound Alicante flight arrived the the crew got straight onto the other a/c and departed for Alicante.

FR9079 ALICANTE 1955 DEPARTED 23:49

So one based Leeds a/c will be in Alicante now and the Alicante a/c will be in Leeds.

It happons a lot.

[anna_list]

Good morning. The Q1 results are out today. First Quarter Results - London Stock Exchange (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10577911)

Here are the highlights and lowlights:


Adjusted profit after tax up 1% from €136.5m (excludes €13.5m write-down on Aer Lingus investment) to €138.5m (excludes €50m costs for volcanic ash disruption)
Unadjusted profit after tax down by 24% from €123m to €93.7 (including the above exceptional items)
Revenue up 16% from €774.7m to €896.8m
Passengers (including no-shows) up 8% from 16.6m to 18.0m
Yields up 5%, revenue per passenger up 7%
13% increase in sector length
Fuel costs up 34%. 2010-11 fuel bill to increase by €300m.
Costs excluding fuel up 1%
Q2 yields to rise by between 10% and 15%
Full year yield (+5% to +10%) and profit guidance (in the range €350m to €375m) unchanged
By 2013, 72 aircraft are to be delivered, with 23 disposals planned (of which 6 are sales and 17 are leases), fleet to grow to 299 aircraft

[frfly]

Fantastic results. Good to see the FR model is now maturing as average fares and yields are raised to deliver a long term profit.

For once lets hope the FR bashers can look on and appreciate how successful this airline is even in such turbulent times in the industry.

[no slot]

In addition,

Ancillary revenue grew to e204m. Now accounts for nearly 25% of all revenue.

Rgds
no slot

[racedo]

Fantastic results. Good to see the FR model is now maturing as average fares and yields are raised to deliver a long term profit.

For once lets hope the FR bashers can look on and appreciate how successful this airline is even in such turbulent times in the industry.

Agree a great set of results but the bashers will be back indicating its going bust soooooooon as they are so badly run.

[carousel]

So now can I have my 261/2004 Expences repaid as promised in April? :O

[Hollymead]

Seville becomes a base in November .

[multiflight123]

Dresde

Ryanair is about to introduce Dresde. I just got the information that Dresde apeared in the online check in dropdown field last night showing BGY, CRL and EDI as destination.

[Master_Dn]

Ryanair, the World`s favourite airline, today (Thursday, 22nd July 2010) announced it would open its 44th base at Seville in November 2010 with two based aircraft and 29 routes (including 10 new routes, which go on sale tomorrow). Ryanair will offer over 250 weekly return flights to/from Seville in an investment worth over $140 million in the airport.

Ryanair`s 10 new routes from Bari, Eindhoven, London Gatwick, Marseille, Palma, Paris, Santiago, Valencia, Venice Treviso, and Zaragoza will increase Ryanair`s traffic at Seville to 1.5m passengers p.a. which will create and sustain 1,500 well paid local jobs.

Ryanair celebrated its new Seville base, two new aircraft, 29 routes and 1.5m passengers p.a. by releasing 500,000 €3 seats for travel across its European network for travel in September and October which are available for booking on www.ryanair.com (http://www.ryanair.com/) from midnight tonight until midnight Monday (26th July).

[befree]

They ignore the 50 million euros due to ash cloud when stating the Adjusted profits. We had BA on strike during this period and they have not made and adjustment for that.

The thing to note is "2010-11 fuel bill to increase by €300m" on top of the cost rise this year. They have also failed to sell any planes this qtr. When they do manage to sell planes they will have to take a loss on falling residual values.

[FR-]

Befree nice points but its a shame the stock market dont agree with you. Trading just below its 52 high.

FT.com - Markets Data (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=RYA%3ALSE&ftsearchType=type_quotes&vsc_appId=ts&ftsite=FTCOM&searchtype=equity&searchOption=equity)

[jpthomas72]

Thanks, multiflight123 .

Ryanair is about to introduce Dresde. I just got the information that Dresde apeared in the online check in dropdown field last night showing BGY, CRL and EDI as destination. I assume there is no airport somewhere in Scandinavia which is called Dresde, so this must be the east German city of Dresden (DRS) :). Very interesting !
No sign yet in the German media. As I don't use Silverlight, so can't see the routemap. Sure this might happen, it's a big change of hearts by DRS management as a few years back they swore not to sell their soul to budget airlines. But they never got enough 'legacy' traffic. Easyjet's new BSL-DRS was a first sign, of course, they might add something LON, I guess. Despite really liking the town, I don't expect something so useful for me in central England, as FR do EMA-SXF which is a very similar market. Maybe they chop Altenburg for DRS. Note of course that DRS will be subject to the planned German flight tax, just like HHN, NRN etc. And DRS has expensive facilities, much nicer than HHN and SXF. They must give FR a massive fee break (another chunk of West German money wisely spend in the East :\).
I'd hope maybe for LPL-DRS ? NRN-DRS seems fairly obvious option (AB do DUS-DRS), or maybe some Eastern European cities (GDN, RIX ?). Let's see if it works. Just wanted to book BD's LHR-DRS, but maybe worth waiting a few more weeks. BTW, CRL-DRS I think will not work, unless many Polish and Czechs are interested.

[Charlie Roy]

BTW, CRL-DRS I think will not work

I live in Belgium. In my small circle of friends I know 2 people who need to regularly travel between Belgium and Dresden, and I know maybe a dozen who have visited Dresden as a tourist at some stage (myself included).
Indeed, I wouldn't expect it to be the most profitable route ever, but I already know some people who'll be very happy if it comes to be...

[Jamie2k9]

I'm not sure if this will happon.

Ryanair are planning to make cuts to there German Bases as well as not flying to new German locations. Ryanair had planned to open two new German Bases but if the tax is interduced the cuts will be made.


Ryanair are also looking at expanding into Turkey for next summer as well as other eastren european countries.

[ericlday]

From UK Airport News -

Ryanair announced on Tuesday that seven routes they operate from the UK to San Javier airport in Spain will be stopped from the winter schedule. Those routes are from Birmingham, Liverpool, Bournemouth, Glasgow, Leeds, East Midlands, Luton. The only two flights which will continue throughout the winter are those between San Javier and Dublin and Stansted.

A Ryanair spokesman said the reason the flights stopping was that the regional government of Murcia have been unwilling to negotiate a deal it. He said this will mean that 120,000 fewer passengers will fly into Murcia this winter, and 76 weekly flights will not operate.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair also wouldn't confirm if the routes dropped for the winter would return for summer 2011.

[jpthomas72]

Charlie Roy, I'm not saying this wouldn't be nice, but up here in BHX, we're far too used to FR's 'experimental approach' to route planning. I guess normally people would do BRU-BER to go there, it's a two hour drive, not really far, and SXF is just by the new motorway.
This might have something to do with moving operations in from PRG, or maybe even SXF, if Saxony throws money at them.
Don't get too worried about this German flight tax plan. Ask any German about the state of Merkel's government, this can change in days again. I heard LH already has some exception (no tax on transfer passengers). Also e.g. HHN is owned by the regional government in Mainz, it's not the first time they'd throw-in money to keep it alive. It's in an economically weak area, the jobs are much needed.

[ara01jbb]

UNPAID FOR ADVERTISING IS NOT ALLOWED ON PPRuNe.

Ryanair can advertise by paying the going rate.

[Tooloose]

Isn't that using pprune for advertising or am I missing something? Oh, I forgot, it's Ryanair so no problem.

Edit: Yes it is!

[jpthomas72]

There is silence on this in the German media. My gut feeling is that this was just a rumour, and FR at DRS is not happening. I'd expect LH/4U and AB push DRS hard not to do this. E.g. LH runs a likely loss-making LHR service and many flights to FRA a day, which are its long-haul connection life-line. So DRS owes them something. A small number of EZY flights could be more acceptable to LH/4U/AB, as the ticket price difference is much smaller than with FR. DRS could just phone CGN management, why the FR deal there never happened.

[Padanian1]

Hello, my first post. Sorry for not properly introduce myself. I'm basically a lurker, who frequently travel for work and for pleasure.
I was trying to book for a flight from BGY and FCO to PIK for next winter, but apparently all flights to PIK from Italy are just available up to October 31st. I heard about Ryanair stepping out from PIK and redundancies among the workers in Prestwick.
Any truth in that?
Will I have to fly with Easyjet from MXP to EDI, then...

[Scottish Flyer]

Rome CIA to PIK has been a seasonal route for some time now. Unlikely to operate over the winter months but should return at end of March. Milan Bergamo has operated all year round as there is a winter market which includes winter sports. Last year the flights were announced fairly late and the same may well be happening this year. It is still quite possible that this route will operate. Ryanair have still not finalised the winter schedule from PIK with a number of changes of frequency and days of operation being made in the past few days. There is no question at this time of Ryanair pulling out of PIK but just of reduced winter frequencies.

[Jamie2k9]

Rome CIA also operates to Edinburgh with Ryanair 3 times weekly during winter.

[Padanian1]

Thanks for replying. If course I meant CIA, and not FCO as you both realised. :ok:

Hello and welcome to PPRuNe.

Thank you for your posts.

We can't help you out with your flight details on this forum. You probably better off contacting your travel agent. We try to keep this forum to general business involving the industry as a whole. Please see our forum regulations above.

cheers
AAR Mods

[FR-]

While were on the subject of CIA, its been droped from EMA aswell, very odd, the flights are always packed, even in the winter, and the fares are not cheap either.

fr-

[Padanian1]

Thanks for the moderator for his/her advice. My question was not timetable-related, but literally: "I heard about Ryanair stepping out from PIK and redundancies among the workers in Prestwick. Any truth in that?"
As such, it is surely industry-related.

[eu01]

Beauvais will get number of new routes to non-base destinations. Among the newest (http://www.air-journal.fr/2010-07-30-ryanair-six-nouvelles-lignes-en-france-cet-hiver-59447.html) destinations four will be in Morocco (Marrakesh 4/7, Fez 3/7, Tanger 3/7 and Nador 2/7) and one in Italy (Verona, 3/7).

Just wondering how much BVA differs from other airports in FR network. So many W-patterns as nowhere else...

[GrahamK]

eu01, something to do with French working laws/contracts?

[tictack67]

When did this creep in?

Bag Charges to and from Canary Islands are now £20 Each way, but to other destinations from UK it is £15. Surely that is not fair and crippling the tourist industry to Canary islands. i know they are longer flights but so is Marrakech etc.

I am really sorry to say, that has been the final straw for me. I just wish they would charge a propert fare, and not have all these silly silly extra charges which in this case make up 67% of my total "airfare"

I am no an FR basher, but sometimes one can't help it. . .

[TSR2]

I just wish they would charge a propert fare, and not have all these silly silly extra charges

So would I but Ryanair are no different to ALL the other lo-co airlines.

[Charlie Roy]

four will be in Morocco (Marrakesh 4/7, Fez 3/7, Tanger 3/7 and Nador 2/7) and one in Italy (Verona, 3/7).

I suppose the Moroccan routes will be W's from Madrid. Or maybe a couple from Seville or one of the other Spanish bases with Moroccan routes.

[Jamie2k9]

Beauvais will get number of new routes to non-base destinations. Among the newest (http://www.air-journal.fr/2010-07-30-ryanair-six-nouvelles-lignes-en-france-cet-hiver-59447.html) destinations four will be in Morocco (Marrakesh 4/7, Fez 3/7, Tanger 3/7 and Nador 2/7) and one in Italy (Verona, 3/7).

Just wondering how much BVA differs from other airports in FR network. So many W-patterns as nowhere else...


Ryanair would open a base in Paris Beauvais but the airport has a night ban on flying so if a flight is delayed past 11:30 it has to divert to Lille.

The new landing system will be operating by October 2010 so if there is fog flights will not have to divert as much.

A lot of money would be lost on busing passengers, paying to land in Lille etc.

[tictack67]

No they are worse.

I believe next all flights over 1 hour and 4 mins, a cup of tea will be and extra 1 euro, and a Kit-Kat to non EU destinations will be also 1 extra euro.

To charge customers different prices for the same service flight+luggage should be the same, after all, that's what they accuse Dublin and some other airports of, different charges for SAME service they receive everywhere else. If there is an increased cost base on the same service on longer flights, reflect this in the airfare.

Anyway, once MOL runs of with his share of e20m share diffy, and new management come in.....hmmmmm then what?

[WallyWumpus]

TicTack, this is not aimed at you personally, but rather at an earlier post of yours: I go to the Canaries with some regularity (4-5 times a year). I normally go for a week and I have never had to take hold luggage, my cabin bag is fine. I think we pax fall into 2 broad categories (IMHO). I like to think that my ticket price is a little bit cheaper than it would be if RYR had a free baggage allowance, and this motivates me to pack light. One day, hopefully, I will have a family and will no longer have the option, but please let me enjoy it whilst I can :)

(For clarity, I am suggesting the other group of pax would rather pay a bit more for the basic ticket and get a free hold bag, perhaps a cup of tea and other basic services).

Wally.

[apaul]

I have no objection to charges that reflect the extra costs to the airline of hold baggage or say paying by credit card. But Ryanair's fees are set far above this level and are intended to generate a substantial part of the airline's revenue. You say you do not want to subsidise passengers with hold luggage. Fair enough, but why should you be subsidised by those paying Ryanair's extortionate fees?

[WallyWumpus]

apaul,

I shouldn't, you are right. The charges should reflect the cost base plus a reasonable commercial profit. If they don't (ie. if baggage is excessively loaded, no pun intended) then I feel less comfortable with my previous post.

Unfortunately, I have no capability to address my own concerns, and I have no idea what baggage handling fees are, so now I feel a bit like I'm blowing in the wind...........

Wally.

[Jamie2k9]

From September all Ryanair checked in bags will cost €15 for all routes except all international flights from the Canary Islands it will remain at €20. Passengers traveling to airports in Spain from Canary Islands it will remain at €15.

News : Ryanair?s Optional Checked-In Bag Fees (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryanair-s-optional-checked-in-bag-fees)

[clareview]

Some people might not like the way Ryanair calculates what it charges passengers. On the other hand 70m bookings this year suggest a lot of people are ok with it - after all, when you get to the section of the booking that shows the total price you can always abort the booking and go elsewhere

[tintits]

can any body tell me if ryanair have finished flying to murcia from eastmidlands and birmingham from the end of oct 2010:confused:

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair have suspended seven of there nine routes for winter 2010/11. Flights will operate to London Stansted (3 weekly) and Dublin (2 weekly) for winter. Ryanair wouldn't say if the routes would return for summer 2011.

The reason for these route cuts is failure of the Murcian Government to promote tourism.

[tintits]

thanks for that it is just that i cant find any flights to murcia next year right up to april eastmids or birmingham

[Jamie2k9]

If the routes are to resume it won't be until March 30 2011. Ryanair's summer flights won't be available to book until at least December.

[eu01]

Just wondering how much BVA differs from other airports in FR's network. So many W-patterns as nowhere else. eu01, something to do with French working laws/contracts? Well, it obviously has much to do with this issue. I just can imagine how important BVA must be for Ryanair - so much "acrobatics" with W-patterns while otherwise FR seems to dislike them.

The article published yesterday on tourmag.com (http://www.tourmag.com/Ryanair-attend-la-decision-du-tribunal-d-Aix-en-Provence-en-novembre_a39881.html) referred to these issues« Au vu du nombre de destinations desservies à Beauvais, nous pourrions très facilement en faire une base mais pour différentes raisons, il n’est pas prévu de le faire dans un avenir proche », estime Janita Govinden, sales & marketing executive.

La compagnie irlandaise attend la décision du tribunal d’Aix en Provence à propos du statut de ses employés à Marseille qui travaillent avec un contrat irlandais.

« Avant ce jugement qui devrait intervenir en novembre, il n’est pas question d’envisager l’ouverture d’une autre base française », explique Janita Govinden.

Ryanair a d’ailleurs laissé entendre qu’elle pourrait fermer la base de Marseille si le jugement était en sa défaveur…
"Given the number of destinations in Beauvais, we could very easily open a base, but for different reasons, it is not intended to do so in the near future," estimates Janita Govinden, sales and marketing executive.

The Irish company is awaiting the decision of the court of Aix en Provence on the status of its employees working in Marseille with an Irish contract.

"Before the ruling which is expected in November, the opening of another French base cannot be considered," says Janita Govinden.

Moreover, Ryanair suggested that it could close the base of Marseille if the ruling was against them ...

[Ringwayman]

nowt to do with the Murcian authorities not promoting. Ryanair might one day hit upon the idea of not relying on others to splash some money advertising their routes, but as they are miserly I doubt that would happen.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair won't open a base in Paris BVA airport as a lot of flights have to be diverted and every diverted flight costs money. Even though ILS CAT III won't be braught into operation until at least November. Flights cannot arrive or depart between 11:30pm - 7:00am. because of the night flying ban. Most Ryanair flights depart around 6:30 and don't arrive until around 11:45pm so a base in BVA would not work. A Ryanair a/c based somewhere else could make more money.

A new Terminal is due to open by the end of 2010

[BleadonHell]

On the subject of Murcia, the new regional airport of Murcia Province at Corvera, which is about 15 - 20 minutes drive inland from Murcia - San Javier is due to open in summer 2011, to the best of my knowledge, there are currently no airlines banging on the door to use it - except maybe FR ???

The new airport project, which is many years delayed and millions over budget had to be bailed out by the regional government when the developer ran into financial problems late last year; the project would have been stopped before completion without their intervention.

Interestingly EZY have also canned Murcia from Bristol and Newcastle this winter and have dramatically reduced their service from LGW, another candidate for Covera when ever it may open?

[Telstar]

"Before the ruling which is expected in November, the opening of another French base cannot be considered," says Janita Govinden.

Jamie2K9

The above reason is the main problem, which is more then very likely insurmountable. A CATIII is just a matter of time and money in BVA case. Until then the answer is more and more W patterns.

[airnoc]

HI Myself and the family flew from Ire west Knock to faro last week and both times flights were ahead of time going out 23 minutes and comming back 12 minutes.
Food on board was to say the lease was pure crap and costly and will not be buying it again but will fly again with ryanair.

[FR-]

The fresh food really does depend on where the a/c is based, I must admit most the european bases have really bad fresh food, the UK and Irelands fresh food is to a good standard. I personally think Dublin has the best fresh food!
The fresh food prices went down about to months ago, with a basic sandwish starting from only 3euro, and something like BLT or chicken salad 4.50 euro. Since the managers in Dublin have changed the prices, the sales have gone up.

Just on a moaning note, esp pax with second homes who come with drinks from boots and a sandwich from home. You are now helping the low fares, ryanair has a set target per pax, if we dont get the money out u from sales in the long run the tickets will go up or maybe even the routes dropped, we have seen his in EMA with several french second home owner flights. Come on just spend 2 two.

fr-

[lexoncd]

When baggage charges escalate as they have in the summer. Its makes more sense to take a ferry with as much luggage as you want and avoid costly car rental too.

Not sure how long it will be before the OFT clamp down on the online check in charge. Your HAVE to check in somehow be it online or at the aiprort so as this is a compulsory charge why have they got away with it until now?

Surely the options of fleecing passengers is running short now. Forget about the pure pr spin of loo charges etc etc. and when that happens punters will increasingly be choosing Ryanair whey they offer value and others where there is a more competative/customer friendly alternative.

If FR came out now with a new customer focused initiative they could shock the low cost world and convert the cynics... I hope they do.

[FR-]

I know what you mean about the online checkin, i personally dont agree with it either.

As for customer service, most of the crew really do try hard, but the crew are put under so much pressure, either it being time to make slots, or more like how much the average spend is. But if you ask most crew, all of us love it when a pax gets off and says its been a lovely flight.

Might i also add, over the last year or so, the average time crew have spent in the company as got longer, and i think this has helped some gain much needed customer service skills. For any of our new crews it will be their first job from leaving college/university, and do no have any experience dealing with customers. The days of crew being in the company for 12 months then being a number one has long gone.

Just out of interest what would make the ryanair experience more enjoyable for you? And what would you like to see on the inflight bar service/price.. p.s. a hot drink is now 3euro/£2.60

fr-

[jdcg]

For me FR cabin crew have improved markedly over the last few years, notably when they first started employing east europeans and some of the mediterranean staff. I'm not sure what they'd be like in an emergency but they always seem very pleasant.
I think FR get away with the online check-in fee because sometimes it's waived in a sale campaign. So it's not always compulsory.
The one that really annoys me is the credit card charge per passenger rather than per booking which is virtual robbery. I've gone and found an appropriate pre-paid card but it's just so blatantly extortionate. Amending bookings is virtually pointless as well. On both these issues EZY is much better. However, punctuality is another matter....:)
Priority boarding is a bit of a con sometimes too. I was on the same airside bus as the Priority gang at Krakow airport the other week so I don;t know what they'd paid for.

[lexoncd]

The crew do a good job on short sectors. Charges aren't down to them but to M'ol.

Here's my take on what the next round of increases will be

On Line check in to £10
Airport Check in to £50
Carry on baggage limit reduced making more put it in the hold... Safety concerns bla bla
Baggage charges increasing all round
Priority boarding increasing to £10
Airport Taxes increasing blaming airports hmmmand finally
Increased credit card charges whilst sasying you can use a card no one has heard of.

Possible late check in. If you don't print off X days head you'll pay extra.. Helps with fuel planning will be the excuse.
charge for carry on luggage!!! Prob most likely one actually

[ara01jbb]

I think FR get away with the online check-in fee because sometimes it's waived in a sale campaign. So it's not always compulsory.


The online check-in fee never applies to advertised fixed-price (not % discount) sale fares. FR only ever advertise promotional fares (i.e. those in the current promo on the homepage). They never advertise non-promo fares, which means they can slap an additional £5 fee on them without violating various rules about only advertising the achievable fare.

[clareview]

Fly regularly with Ryanair and even with the "additional" charges they are still cheaper than the alternatives. In addition, booking one of the sale offers usually means most charges are included.

As I have said before, if you don't like Ryanairs cheap flights, go elsewhere and swim against the tide of 70m bokings this year,

[Noxegon]

Am I the only one who'd love to see all prices as a single fare? I really don't give a flying if I'm being charged €5 for online checkin or not; I can't avoid it when it applies, so who cares??

[Stevek]

Thats how it is right now. Its always the displays the total cost.

[Civagiarn]

Ryanair are launching a very exciting new route Stansted - Plovdiv, initially twice weekly from November 02.

[apaul]

Not sure a Bulgarian skiing route will work given Ryanair charge £40 each way to carry skis.

[Civagiarn]

Well hopefully it will also promote other forms of tourism in the area, as there really is a lot to do and see around Plovdiv.

[pee]

there really is a lot to do and see around Plovdiv
Although I do remember an interesting old town in Plovdiv and the Valley of Roses nearby (been there many years ago), it's still virtually unknown place for Western Europeans. Probably that's why it will commence with just two flights a week.

That's a good example of how extremely prudent Ryanair became in launching its new routes. Even if Plovdiv isn't a famous place for Britons, one should take into account thousands of Bulgarians working in UK and elsewhere in EU. Twice weekly? Too cautiously perhaps?

[Civagiarn]

There are also a lot of very good day trips a short drive away from plovdiv, such as to the Bachkovo monastry, Asen's fortress, devil's throat cave, wonder bridges and ancient ruins, but I reckon this route is mainly targeted at those owning properties in the ski resorts.
A new terminal was opened a year ago at PDV and currently only used by a few british and russian ski charters, so there'd be good facilities for Ryanair to expand there if they decide to.

[racedo]

News : Ryanair?s Traffic Grows 13% in July to a Record 7.6m (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-s-traffic-grows-13-percent-in-july-to-a-record-7-6m)

7.61 Million in the month and up 13% on what was a good July last year.

[pee]

A very interesting incident in Spain. Yesterday FR told the media about the press conference to happen today at noon in Bilbao to announce "new Ryanair routes" to this Basque airport. Just two hours later the company cancelled the presentation. Total confusion, phones ringing, nobody knew what was happening, is Ryanair coming or not. Reversing the decisions or just a time-out please?

[Jamezon]

Perhaps Spanish press conference tied in with ATC issues featuring on their 'news' section recently.

Re. July traffic, as per, how can you include an approximate figure (up to 1.45million) of passengers then simultaneously boast about your statistics? More to the point, LF is down, which I thought was the true key to Ryanair's success?

[befree]

7.61 Million in the month and up 13% on what was a good July last year.

On the other hand they had 12% of the seats unsold in July, the highest percentage for July since 2003.

Also they face a 300 million euro increase in fuel costs for the year. The revenue from extra passengers over the year will just about cover the extra costs.

[pee]

... from November 2010

5 New Madrid routes

Ancona ... 3pw
Ibiza ... Daily
Krakow ... 3pw
Oujda (Morocco) ... 2pw
Stockholm Skavsta ... 3pw


7 New Rome Ciampino routes

Bari ... Daily
Fez ... 3pw
Gothenburg ... 3pw
London (Gatwick) ... Daily
Marrakesh ... 3pw
Marseille ... 3pw
Tenerife ... 2pw

[clareview]

So Ryanair continue to grow while others fall or at least stand still.

[Buster the Bear]

An interesting fact. At one particular airport, the Ryanair passenger spend in the terminal is 1/20th of that using another low cost airline.

Balance that fact with the knowledge that the recipient airport only takes a percentage of that spend from the retailers.

If that airport has granted Ryanair certain concessions on landing fees, parking charges etc, how then can they make any money from having Ryanair operating from their airports unless the throughput is in the 'millions' of pax per annum?

No wonder airports need Ryanair less that they need the airports!

No doubt Ryanair will be grounding more planes in the UK this winter (for repainting).

Good luck to the airports paying Ryanair for the privilege of using their runways!

Fantastic management Ryanair has, undoubtedly the best in the business - bar none!

[racedo]

On the other hand they had 12% of the seats unsold in July, the highest percentage for July since 2003.

Also they face a 300 million euro increase in fuel costs for the year. The revenue from extra passengers over the year will just about cover the extra costs.

2 months ago you were saying it was the increase in average fares that would enable them to pay the extra €300 million now its the massive increase in passenger numbers:cool:

Afterall you stated that their success previously was based on BA being on strike where as in July BA wasn't on strike yet the BA numbers were down:ugh:

Ryanair have added 4.8 Million passengers over and above same period last year in the 7 months to July.

The drop in from 89% to 88% over same period last year in actual fact means 1 less ticket sold per flight per day. Somehow I doubt its that much of a concern.

[befree]

taking another 300 million euros just to cover extra fuel costs is important. That needs about 7-8 million extra pax or a significant 4-5 euro extra revenue per pax. Ryanair is not going to have it easy and in the winter months the higher fares will make filling the planes harder.

Also get the maths correct 1% of 737-800 is 1.8 people. If repeated monthly am average 1% drop takes about 28 million euros off the income. Pax pay very different prices and the effect will be a lot more if its the late bookers who are flying less.

[racedo]

taking another 300 million euros just to cover extra fuel costs is important. That needs about 7-8 million extra pax or a significant 4-5 euro extra revenue per pax. Ryanair is not going to have it easy and in the winter months the higher fares will make filling the planes harder.

Also get the maths correct 1% of 737-800 is 1.8 people. If repeated monthly am average 1% drop takes about 28 million euros off the income. Pax pay very different prices and the effect will be a lot more if its the late bookers who are flying less.

Dear oh dear you just keep making up the numbers to show how they are doomed its like a latter day Dad's Army.

Lets see Average fares are rising / Passenger numbers are rising / Average non ticket revenue is rising but still they are doomed according to your analysyis.

If you did the analysis of Easy / BA and all the others mentioned on this forum it may be comparable but strangely you never do. This alone kinda highlights an agenda which each and every time predicts doom with fictional items all the time.

[racedo]

Also get the maths correct 1% of 737-800 is 1.8 people.

7,610,000 / .88% is 8647727 available seats divide by 189 is 45,755 approx total flights in July

Adding 45,755 to 7,610,000 and dividing by available seats gets you 88.52% which to 0 decimal places is 89%..................think will stick with my Math as yet to find 1.8 passengers.

[befree]

The way you calaculated it could be repeated for 2 seats per plane and get very close to a one percent change in load factor.

one percent of 189 seats is 1.89 seats. We have no idea if the 88% and 89% are 87.6% and 89.4% or 88.4% and 88.6%. Ryanair keep reducing the detail of data suppled. in 2007 they told us the exact number of seats sold.

I guess someone know exactlly the number of sectors and can work out an exact load factor.

[cesare.caldi]

No doubt Ryanair will be grounding more planes in the UK this winter (for repainting).

Repainting? Maybe new livery?

[Jamie2k9]

Will tbe route start in November. A letter of protest may be going to the European Commission over the new route.

Bulgarian airlines complain about Ryanair’s privileged position on the local market - FOCUS Information Agency (http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n227409)

Bulgaria Air mulls official protest over Ryanair 'privileges' - Business - The Sofia Echo (http://www.sofiaecho.com/2010/08/06/943265_bulgaria-air-mulls-official-protest-over-ryanair-privileges)

[eu01]

London Stansted - Plovdiv
Will the route start in November. A letter of protest may be going to the European Commission over the new route.Very likely it will start as planned. There were many such a protests before, some of them still pending - I don't think it ever had much influence on MOL so far. To mention a few, there were similar cases (concerning the unlawful State Aid and similar) at AHO, AAR, SXF, BTS, CRL, HHN, LBC, PUF, TMP, most recently Riga as well. At least one of them (CRL) dismissed by the European Commission by now.

In contrary, FR tends to abandon the apts trying to discontinue their marketing support. If my suspicions are right, it might be the case in Tours, France. All flights there just became unbookable after the end of August, am I right?

[en2r]

In contrary, FR tends to abandon the apts trying to discontinue their marketing support. If my suspicions are right, it might be the case in Tours, France. All flights there just became unbookable after the end of August, am I right?Tours is normally always a peak season summer only destination for Ryanair, operating between May/June and August/September. I can't ever remember Ryanair operating there during the winter.

[cym]

Looking forward to when MOL crashes and burn's ........ 2012 given current fiscal EEC cutbacks and the impact that has on pax spend

Crap product and a marketing approach that will run out of steam.

I vote with my feet and refuse to use them

Dance on a company's graves? I hate queues

[Jamie2k9]

Tours is normally always a peak season summer only destination for Ryanair, operating between May/June and August/September. I can't ever remember Ryanair operating there during the winter.

Ryanair do operate from Tours during the winter.

London-Stansted, Marseille and Porto operate during the winter. Dublin operates March - October.

The routes were boookable after August but now they are not but they sitll show as operating.

[ryan2000]

Not sure what you're basing your 2012 forecast on CYM. So far Ryanair appear to be holding up very well during this horrendous downturn for aviation.

[clareview]

Everyone is entitled to vote with their feet in fact 70m are voting with their feet this year and booking with ryanair. I am sure they will really miss your booking

[clareview]

What does sitll mean?

[pee]

Well, there are some airports that are doing extremely well thanks to Ryanair. Like Lappeenranta. It must be kind of Guiness World Record, presumably. According to YLE (http://yle.fi/alueet/etela-karjala/2010/08/lappeenrannan_lentoaseman_matkustajamaara_kasvoi_rajahdysmai sesti_1877820.html), after Ryanair and Air Baltic started flying there the traffic in LPP rose some 320.000% (6403 pax in July 2010 versus just 2 in July 2009). Indeed Ryanair's LF is close to 100% there. Very promising as the vast majority of pax comes from Russia.

But elsewhere FR seems being able to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Discontinuing the extremely popular and high-priced TMP-AGP for the Winter, still attractive season for the Nordic pax? Unbelievable! Also BGY gone.

[befree]

fact 70m are voting with their feet

Most people are on return trips so thats 35m. trips.
Those who use Ryanair will do so many times per year, esp those working away from home or will a 2nd home. It is very likely that ryanair have only 15m different pax per year who do an average of 5 sectors a year.

For each one the airline upsets they lose on average 5 sectors.

2012 may be a very hard year with a large rise in fuel costs, workers upset with pay freeze and extra airport taxes.

[clareview]

befree

Even if your statistical guesses are correct, the fact that numbers are growing indicates that more are joining the Ryanair users club than leaving it. Its down to simple economics - price matters.

[befree]

The "ryanair users club" size could grow 20% driven by expansion and agressive capture of market share but if total costs rise more that total income the airline can become loss making.

Economics is never simple and lots of frims have expanded too much only then to fail big time.

The storm is coming and it may be those who go via FR will be hit the most.

[racedo]

The "ryanair users club" size could grow 20% driven by expansion and agressive capture of market share but if total costs rise more that total income the airline can become loss making.

Economics is never simple and lots of frims have expanded too much only then to fail big time.

The storm is coming and it may be those who go via FR will be hit the most.

Afraid this is more phoney analysis attempt at pushing your desire for FR to fail.:rolleyes:

Time and again they have proven over last 10 years that they have an ability to move quickly in changing the face of aviation.

This laughable storm you desire somehow will only hit the company who has the most cash in the bank and not hurt those who are struggling already just to stay afloat.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[clareview]

I agree with racedo -Ryanair has proved the sceptics wrong time after time after time. Its business model is of course based on Southwest in the USA and it has been going strong for even longer.

The prophets of doom obviously want to rid the market of low fares so that we go back to hundresd of pounds for what I can now get from Ryanair, all costs included, for 10-20% of that.

[rapidman47]

The storm is coming and it may be those who go via FR will be hit the most.
Befree I have to thank you every time you come on here you have me rolling on the floor, with your miss information Ryan will still be here in ten years time HA HA HA:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[befree]

you all may not like my analysis but how is ryanair going to make a significant profit in 2012 onwards?

What will the cost per pax be?
what will the income per pax be?
how many pax will they carry and at what load factor?

If you cannot do the analysis then it is you who are making the guessing.

[clareview]

I suggest Ryanair has some able people who are in possession of the facts as opposed to speculation and idle gossip, whose job it is to look ahead several years and plan accordingly e.g taking account of no new plane orders.

No doubt you would like to see the end of Ryanair - who would you target then?

[racedo]

you all may not like my analysis but how is ryanair going to make a significant profit in 2012 onwards?

What will the cost per pax be?
what will the income per pax be?
how many pax will they carry and at what load factor?

If you cannot do the analysis then it is you who are making the guessing.

You are not even making an attempt at analysis rather throwing a few quotes in and hoping nobody spots it.

FR currently running aircraft carrying approximately 300,000 passengers each per year which even at an average current fare of €39 plus €11 ancillary gives them every asset generating €15 million a year over a 6 year life span plus inflation thats €100 million. On an asset that costs €30M to buy, even adding in fuel, maintenance, staffing you would expect each aircraft to give you €15 Million net over a 6 year life span in profit and a hell of a lot of cash before selling it on for a tidy sum.

As for the idea that passengers are disappearing well far from it, the movement of aircraft across Europe has built in lots more routes and users and while UK and Ireland are in recession now they won't always be and will clearly desire more opportunities to travel again which just reopens more routes

Problem FR face in 2014 maybe that they haven't enough aircraft to sustain demand.

[Jamie2k9]

Dur to Baggage Handlers Strike in Madrid on Monday the 16 August Ryanair will not be accepting checked baggage on all flights to/from Madrid. This is to prevent flight delays and cancellations.

Madrid Baggage Handlers Strike ? Monday16th August (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/notices/gops/100810-MAD_STRIKE_EN-GB)

Not sure if any other airlines are effected

[Flightrider]

Its business model is of course based on Southwest in the USA

Oh please. If Southwest was a rock star, it would be constantly fighting paternity suits to prove that it has no relationship to the masses claiming to be its offspring.

A few of the key and fundamental differences:

1/ Since day 1, Ryanair has operated its 737s at maximum seating density. Southwest takes two rows out of each aircraft to increase legroom.

2/ Ryanair charges for baggage - many would say unreasonably so given the hike in peak season baggage fees. Southwest is one of the few US carriers *not* to charge for this - with up to two free bags - despite the fact that the legacy carriers have begun to do so.

3/ Southwest accepts unaccompanied minors, cargo, pets, offers senior citizen fares, has a frequent flyer scheme, doesn't whack you with added charges which are several times higher than the initial fare display, manages its boarding process without recourse to customers' elbows....

4/ Southwest has active engagement programmes with its employees...which happens to include union recognition.

Ryanair does what it does, and has a unique Marmite effect - you either love it or hate it. However, if I was Southwest (which I'm not), I'd not be happy that my reputation was being subjected to comparisons with airlines - of which Ryanair is one of many - which bear no resemblance to the product that I provided.

[racedo]

Ryanair does what it does, and has a unique Marmite effect - you either love it or hate it. However, if I was Southwest (which I'm not), I'd not be happy that my reputation was being subjected to comparisons with airlines - of which Ryanair is one of many - which bear no resemblance to the product that I provided.

Got to be at least 10 years ago but Business Week did a piece on Herb Kelleher, Colleen Barrett and MO'L and Southwest duo were more than happy to accept the kudo's for helping Ryanair, Easyjet, GO and loads of other operators get on their feet.

BW Online | May 14, 2001 | Renegade Ryanair (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_20/b3732016.htm)

Had posted some stuff I remember from article but found it and worth a read even 9 and a bit years on.

[FR-]

I think some people should stop trying to work out ryanair ops costs and picking random numbers up. Why not leave it to the professionals, i'll leave you with a good starting point.

FT.com - Markets Data (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/analysis.asp?s=RYA:LSE)

[berkshire boy]

"Why not leave it to the professionals"
Perhaps not such a good idea. Wasn't it banking and investment "professionals" who got this country into the sorry state it's in now?

[wawkrk]

If MOL ever decides to change his strategy and become customer friendly like Jet2 for example, then many airlines will be wiped out.
His strategy reminds me of a sign on the door of a restaurant in Australia.
It read- Dress code:Smart casual or bugger off.

[Sober Lark]

Why some begrudgery here? The chap has already earned more than all of us in this forum have earned added together. If his work / life balance is as good then one cannot but be impressed. I wish him well.

[befree]

FR currently running aircraft carrying approximately 300,000 passengers each per year which even at an average current fare of €39 plus €11 ancillary gives them every asset generating €15 million a year over a 6 year life span plus inflation thats €100 million. On an asset that costs €30M to buy, even adding in fuel, maintenance, staffing you would expect each aircraft to give you €15 Million net over a 6 year life span in profit and a hell of a lot of cash before selling it on for a tidy sum.

FR is parking more planes up each winter and increasing sector length as if looks for new markets, 300,000 pax per plane per year will drop over the next few years. Also looking at the accounts for year to march 2010 they made million euros 1.375 million euros per plane, which equates to 8.25M over 6 years per plane. The fuel cost is rising 1 million euros per plane per year. that mostly wipes out the profit unless revenue goes up.

I have repeated said FR will not go under - what it will do is go ex-growth and make start making a loss. When is very dependent on the price of oil and the Eu wide downturns. A less agressive FR may be a lot better FR,

[racedo]

FR is parking more planes up each winter and increasing sector length as if looks for new markets, 300,000 pax per plane per year will drop over the next few years. Also looking at the accounts for year to march 2010 they made million euros 1.375 million euros per plane, which equates to 8.25M over 6 years per plane. The fuel cost is rising 1 million euros per plane per year. that mostly wipes out the profit unless revenue goes up.

I have repeated said FR will not go under - what it will do is go ex-growth and make start making a loss. When is very dependent on the price of oil and the Eu wide downturns. A less agressive FR may be a lot better FR,

You get funnier and funnier as you take any statement they make as always being negative and nobody would ever have the capability to do something about it.

Aside from being incapable of tell anybody why passengers will desert Ryanair in the millions and how they will lose millions I think I will put you "analysis":rolleyes: up there with Chicken Little and the Guy wearing "The End of the World is Nigh" sandwich board for its accuracy.

So why did they dismiss you ?

[cesare.caldi]

Ryanair new route BGY-Lodz and TPS-PEG

[clareview]

Fed up with all this talk about some airlines not charing for baggage and others charging. The fact is that they all charge for baggage, check in, costs etc, etc - no business does things for free. Its simply that some airlines like Ryanair and, it seems more and more, choose to separate out the figures while others quote a composite figure.

Instead of slagging Ryanair off (are you jealous of its success?) lets let the market decide as it does with every business.

[befree]

The list of why a few million people stop flying ryanair would be very long but there are always new pax to replace them. The probelm is FR needs millions of extra pax par year and that means they have to do a lot more than replace those who stop flying with them. It is not that they will get say 10% less pax but they may get 10% less pax per plane. They are going to have around 300 planes which means thay will need about 90million pax per year to get 300,000 per plane per year.

The bad press the FR gets will not help, for example in todays papers about a childs accident on Ryanair.

Ryanair review urged after child falls while boarding plane | Business | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/aug/12/ryanair-child-airstairs-accident-report)

[Sober Lark]

Shocking as such an accident is, it was a unique event and the changes to Ryanair's behavioural matters resulting from the investigation have more than likely reduced the probability of the occurrence of a similar event.

[TSR2]

The AAIB recommended that Ryanair review its passenger boarding and disembarkation procedures "so that assistance is made available to passengers accompanied by children and those with special needs".

I do not know of one single airline that provides any form of assistance to passengers with children or senior citizens when boarding the aircraft.