Vietnam Airlines (info please)

[EagleA25]

Anyone got their standard “follow Standard Operations Procedures strictly” email already...?
hahahahah

[VietJetPilot]

I am SO interested in IA’s comment on this one... what’s VNA’s excuse this time?

[ia1166]

I am SO interested in IA’s comment on this one... what’s VNA’s excuse this time?

not following sop again. Thought that was obvious. Its on the 10-9.

[ia1166]

Anyone got their standard “follow Standard Operations Procedures strictly” email already...?
hahahahah


follow the sop and brief in accordance. Its a standard arrival brief, including the 10-9. A proper arrival brief would have picked it up.

The captain is responsible at all times.

[wingdeagle]

follow the sop and brief in accordance. Its a standard arrival brief, including the 10-9. A proper arrival brief would have picked it up.

The captain is responsible at all times.













ia1166, you are very correct, the Captain is responsible at all times and all the wisdom to aviation is written in the SOP. Follow it and you'll be safe from troubles. So let's abolish the practice of CRM, let's forget SMS (something your IATA and Skyteam carrier does not even aware exists as this will contradict the punitive culture), let's stop studying human factors (fatigue and risk management) and why worry about threats we face on daily basis ?
Four serious incidents in less than one year (and more that we do not know about ?) can hardly be blamed on not simply following SOP, even though for sure some SOP breach was present at every incident. How about judgement ? Does your SOP have an answer for every unpredictable situation we as professional pilots are trained to deal with ?
It's easy to get on the "follow SOP" blame game, but I think it's time for your company and senior instructors like yourself to stand up and demand a "root cause" study.
Was lack of proper training leading to incidents, lack of proper judgment, lack of support (CRM ?) fatigue, stress or other human factors. A man with your experience knows for sure than one factor does not lead to an incident or accident. The scenarios usually build up by several factors amounting to one bad result.
Just my two cents.

[VietJetPilot]

follow the sop and brief in accordance. Its a standard arrival brief, including the 10-9. A proper arrival brief would have picked it up.

The captain is responsible at all times.



I agree with wingEagle here; you’re a moron, if not an ass-kisser with your beloved managers!
I know everyone has heard this saying: “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results!” Therefore:
Step 1: blame the recently arrived Expat; he is expendable:
Step 2: set up an elaborate blame and shame show, so that the locals have something to jack off to
Step 3: pretend that management sees everything, do so by running around the airport pretending to know what they are doing.
Step 4: make sure the public, and especially the Red Party, knows, it was a foreigner, since Vietnamese don’t do this!
Step 5: hire a replacement pilot from a country that desperately needs a job, is disposable, and will be submissive and make no problems if fired.

If I was the US Pilot, I’d be in touch with my embassy and the FAA; I’d make a full report, requiere an audit and SUE Vietnam Airlines for public endangerment and wrongful work termination!
Will it stick? Probably not, but it will put a HUGE dent into VNA’s plans to operate to the States... and in my opinion, they shouldn’t; not even to Europe!

[Ruzki]

Ia1166 is one of the factor that drowned the standard at vna: where the fo was? And mostly who train the fo?

[EagleA25]

Ia1166 is one of the factor that drowned the standard at vna: where the fo was? And mostly who train the fo?
VietJet; we can do without the name-calling; at least pretend your a professional!
If I’m not mistaken, what Wingedeagle is trying to say is that people are not machines; and as many of us have exclaimed, there is NO checks and balances in Vietnam Airlines.
Fact is, someone let both FO and Captain our into this wide-wide world. Someone did not do the job to evaluate the skipper nor the FO. Someone dispatched the flight without making sure the crew knew what was going on (yeah, I sign papers all day, too, but important things should be highlitghted, or not?) and that person is off the hook; someone trained the lad, and is off the hook; someone released the Second in Command, and both are off the hook!
But the worst is this: There is a general “I really, really don’t give a ****” ambience we are working in! I mean, everyone hangs around the place thinking “if it imploded tomorrow, who cares?”; and it stinks because guys like me, who try their best to be as professional as possible, feel that we all have let the lad down... but I guess, that’s just me, right?
Well, I think with the backing of the FAA and a really good lawyer, yeah, I actually think he could get a good settlement... it happens like this in life sometimes...! Squeeze them Lemonades...

[Ruzki]

Faa and easa had been advised.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Holy **** you guys

The captain IS responsible

Yes of course we are all only human, and there are factors i.e. he's new to the company and I believe hadn't flown the RNAV20 approach before.

Isn't that the biggest reason of all to be very cautious and make a full briefing, keep the autopilot engaged, get stable early, follow the RNAV lateral & vertical profile, cross check EVERYTHING. The RNAV appch takes you straight to the threshold at 500'. I flew it today and in my opinion it's damn near impossible to misidentify it from minima if you're on profile. You NEVER call visual if you're in ANY doubt as to runway position. Your FO appearing to be confident of his position, is not an excuse that will save your ass in court.

I know IA1166 to be a damn good and conscientious instructor and I'm sure him and many other instructors are tearing their hair out about how can they train for this kind of screwup. Let's hear some of you guys' practical suggestions, as to how the instructor team can actually write a sim syllabus that will "train" people to not do something as crazy as misidentifying a half built runway in CAVOK conditions when you have so many visual cues like the ND and the lack of PAPIs and the complete lack of rubber marks on the runway etc etc etc.

Some of you guys are still talking "us" vs "them" as though you still think you're better. "We" the expats are the ones responsible for two pretty big insurance claims in the last few weeks. The rainy season is here now and it's dangerous out there. Time to walk the talk that we are professional pilots, and double down on caution and situational awareness and yes, following SOP

[EagleA25]

Holy **** you guys

The captain IS responsible

Yes of course we are all only human, and there are factors i.e. he's new to the company and I believe hadn't flown the RNAV20 approach before.

Isn't that the biggest reason of all to be very cautious and make a full briefing, keep the autopilot engaged, get stable early, follow the RNAV lateral & vertical profile, cross check EVERYTHING. The RNAV appch takes you straight to the threshold at 500'. I flew it today and in my opinion it's damn near impossible to misidentify it from minima if you're on profile. You NEVER call visual if you're in ANY doubt as to runway position. Your FO appearing to be confident of his position, is not an excuse that will save your ass in court.

I know IA1166 to be a damn good and conscientious instructor and I'm sure him and many other instructors are tearing their hair out about how can they train for this kind of screwup. Let's hear some of you guys' practical suggestions, as to how the instructor team can actually write a sim syllabus that will "train" people to not do something as crazy as misidentifying a half built runway in CAVOK conditions when you have so many visual cues like the ND and the lack of PAPIs and the complete lack of rubber marks on the runway etc etc etc.

Some of you guys are still talking "us" vs "them" as though you still think you're better. "We" the expats are the ones responsible for two pretty big insurance claims in the last few weeks. The rainy season is here now and it's dangerous out there. Time to walk the talk that we are professional pilots, and double down on caution and situational awareness and yes, following SOP

So, the company had NO responsability? It was not the company that hiered the lad? It was not one of the pilots, like IA1166, who released that fella? And there is no fault on behalf of the Chief of training for not revising their training outlines? Perhaps a few extra flights by a local Instructor as an observer? Nah, would not have changed that, right?
I agree with both you and IA, yeah, we skippers are “ultimately” responsible for everything, but both of you have to admit there is something really wrong in this company about it’s recruitment and training traditions; upon arrival here, I myself went through 5 days of “laziness” ground training with mediocre English speaking local instructors here in HCM, followed by 6 flights, that’s 3 only Days, of flight training; that was IT! No Simulator Training, no Operational indoctrination, just a quick hop in the office to fill out paper work, two pages of standard PA announcements, and the request to “follow SOP’s”. That was three years ago and at one point I was actually looking for a new fan club to go to because I thought to myself “they can’t be serious; they are playing around but not hiring me!”.
If I was a manager here, a personally responsible part for the direction and longevity of this company, my EGO by itself would dictate a LOT more indoctrination training than what I got here. I get the fact that Emirates or Qatar is way too extreme, but VNA is nothing in comparison; can’t it be something in the middle?
And while I have the attention of some Expat Instructors here, what is up with the Chief Pilot wanting to meet up with Expats on their day off? Yeah, so, the safety consciousness suddenly kicks in with him, probably because he’s getting a lot more phone calls from the CEO now, and the way to fix it is by having a pow-wow with selected Expats when they have BBQ plans and supposed to be on their legal rest day off... it puzzles me; seems they are trying very hard to adapt western cultures, too (sarcasm!). So, with this in mind, I’m confused, is this a critical situation for VNA, or not? Because if it was, then shouldn’t they schedule me for this meeting, so Mr Chief Pilot can actually have my full attention of the message he wishes to convey?!?

This month’s Blame and Shame game has officially been scheduled for tomorrow, and I would like to know why my schedule hasn’t been adjusted, accordingly? Is it because I’ll be flying to Cam Ranh myself tomorrow?
Fact is, the SMS in VNA is a non-exsistant joke! It’s in the books, yes, but with the turn over that this company has, it is neither adecuate nor able to do its job. Instead of helping identifying risks and dangerous patterns in order to adequately train and modify behavior, it’s simply abused to punish its most important participants: the pilots! And while the locals have an economic solutions to getting their slates cleaned by, occurrences like this one by Expat Captains get the local pilots into a frenzy. Some of ya should go by the fleet office in Saigon these days; when they see an Expat head sticking through the door it gets VERY quiet suddenly...
Sorry, I for my part am not impressed at all, as usual...

[Luke SkyToddler]

So many criticisms and so few solutions offered

So tell us, specifically, what would you do to stop this kind of thing happening in future? If you say "more training" then tell us exactly what you want to do and what extra items you will add to the sim syllabus, and what items you will take OUT of the sim syllabus to fit everything into the 4 hour slot

You say "observer flights" but we all know you can go months without doing the 20 approach, will you keep the guy on line training until he's done EVERY approach from both ends of EVERY runway in the network?

**** happens. He's not 100% responsible, and I hope that the captain doesn't get sacrificed, and the FO and the ATC don't also get what they deserve. They probably won't. That's a cultural thing. I don't disagree with you that it's wrong. I just can't see what the instructors and safety department could have done differently or better in this particular case. If you CAN see something then please do take it to them, I mean that. I don't think they'd ignore you if you have a good suggestion.

[wingdeagle]

Luke, more training alone would have not fixed the latest incidents. The two runway excursions and the tail strike: a simple go around would have taken care of everything. Sounds like a lack of good judgement: judgement cannot be trained. However the airline could do so much more to help the crew make a good judgement. It can start with doing away with punitive culture and implementing a non punitive one (SMS). No reports should be required in case of a go around. If a crew decides to execute a missed approach, more power to them. The public shaming needs to stop. And if a crew does deserve to get a slap on the wrist, it should be done behind closed doors. Secondly the company needs to get away from an Aero Club mentality and become a real airline. This means either hire real dispatchers or train the ones who call themselves "dispatchers" to provide proper information to crews during briefing. It takes more to be a dispatcher than print out flight plans and tell you the ZFW. As far as training, train the F/Os to properly read NOTAMS. There is more to NOTAMS than VIP movements. Runway and taxiway closures etc. need to be addressed. And lastly, it takes authorities weeks and perhaps months to investigate an incident. Strangely at VNA it takes a couple of days and the "follow SOP strictly" solves it all. Till next time ....

[EagleA25]

Luke, more training alone would have not fixed the latest incidents. The two runway excursions and the tail strike: a simple go around would have taken care of everything. Sounds like a lack of good judgement: judgement cannot be trained. However the airline could do so much more to help the crew make a good judgement. It can start with doing away with punitive culture and implementing a non punitive one (SMS). No reports should be required in case of a go around. If a crew decides to execute a missed approach, more power to them. The public shaming needs to stop. And if a crew does deserve to get a slap on the wrist, it should be done behind closed doors. Secondly the company needs to get away from an Aero Club mentality and become a real airline. This means either hire real dispatchers or train the ones who call themselves "dispatchers" to provide proper information to crews during briefing. It takes more to be a dispatcher than print out flight plans and tell you the ZFW. As far as training, train the F/Os to properly read NOTAMS. There is more to NOTAMS than VIP movements. Runway and taxiway closures etc. need to be addressed. And lastly, it takes authorities weeks and perhaps months to investigate an incident. Strangely at VNA it takes a couple of days and the "follow SOP strictly" solves it all. Till next time ....
Yeap; you pretty much beat me to responding to Luke...
perhaps a side note: a reason for a go-around for statistical purposes I would request, purpose to identify patterns such as ATC, weather, or simply Pilot Training.
One thing I like what you said, and I mean a lot, is the “get rid of punitive measurement” and “need for public shaming”mentality; I just can’t get my head around how the Chief Pilot wishes to improve their relationship with pilots by handing it to them with sticks. Do managers really believe we wake up and get out of bed in the morning with the intent of breaking an airplane today?

Luke, in my comments I ment no offense, and I think (and hope) we’re all on the same team, because I know it’s hard to teach common sense in this region; what is even harder is teaching in an internal company culture that inspires a privilege of laziness, Because that is what is happening: we are too comfortable with not moving another finger to even audit ourselfs when we fly! Perhaps even because some of us might not like what we will see at the end as the work ambience of the company promotes a level laziness that I can only describe as Habit-forming; and I am the first to admit: I am one of them!
I agree that “**** happens”, and being a keen AvHerald reader, I am very aware it happens all the time; but you can’t just go out to the plane with your fingers crossed hoping that it won’t happen to you today.
I remember hearing a local FO saying “we don’t always have to do everything perfectly!” to which I replied asking him if he would want ME to do my job perfectly if his mother or girlfriend was on board; guess what, I’ve never seen an FO enter the requested enrute winds so quickly into the MCDU in my career because I explained him that we owe this to all our customers, not just his family...
Fact is, if your normal ops is disciplined, your abnormal will be a matter of mind-over-body; but when things go wrong and you were not doing your job the way you are supposed to, and are not used to doing it, chances are that will probably end with a hull loss if it is a more complex failure.

But, as asked, here is my wish, Luke, and IA1166:
take the list that Wingedeagle mentioned and put it in front of management, in writing; that way it is a responsability that the managers HAVE to comply with or be accountable in case of an accident.
Have the balls as experienced instructors in Vietnam Airlines to highly recommend these changes, promote a non-punitive SMS system, one that analyzes data and corrects behavior, not beats its best source of information to pulp and into submission by ways of the force and fear! If not, the turn over rate will just keep going and nothing good will come from that... I myself am just too lazy to look for a new job by now...

[Luke SkyToddler]

Fair enough wingdeagle can't disagree with any of that

Also on further reflection I think now would be a very good time to push for a big overhaul of our bloated briefings, and replace them with a "threat forward", shorter more relevant and more interactive brief, such as they are using in Alaskan and Cathay and a few other forward thinking airlines nowadays https://www.aerosociety.com/news/briefing-better/

"If" I was an instructor I'd be pushing for that. But like most pilots here, I'm 0% interested in the extra stress, politics and risk to my licence of being an instructor, vs the miniscule extra reward they pay for it. Maybe that's something else that needs to change

[captainjoy]

I just finished 4 years withVNA.
Unfortunalty They have gotten worse every year I have been here.
You make the mistake of going with Parc. Your contract is worth nothing.
7 paid sick days in 6 months says the contract. But company changed FOM
so your schedule if screwed for rest of month after calling in sick and you have to work extra day to repay company.
how is that a paid sick day? Basically the company does what ever they want and Parc
Rolls over immediately. There are No Regs Here at all. If You go over Your allowed Captains discretion
Vice President calls and all of a sudden You are magically legal to fly till u drop. I have been coerced into doing 19 hour 6 sector all nite
duty!!!! And forget about any travel benfits. U only get ( more expensive then real ticket online) standby tickets
only where company operates. No sky team. No code shar, no zed far. No interline.
because of the contract you will work 100 hours month-No over time, because that's 160 hours
in 2 calendar months. With 6/2 schedule you will fly 159.9 hours in 6 weeks. You will have God awful
all night china turn arounds 3 -4 times per month. You will never ever get more then 7 days off in a month.
and they have no definition of what a day off is ( even though u are required to have 7 per month).No one knows what a day off is here.
they told me that I had day off when My report was at 00:30!!!! There are no rules. Schedules always change
its about the worst contract I have had ( out of 11 companys I have worked for on contract). They treat foreigners just as bad as they
Treat each other. To summarize. You will hate it, and when You leave they will try and charge you money for every sick day or day off they said you owe them. Basic a fu..^*¥ed up company that gets worse every month. I am so happy not to work there any more.
thats just Me. You might enjoy the abuse. Good Luck!

[Cak]

I agree with most of the things but why did you stay for 4 years if you didn’t like it from beginning???
All in all, very ****ty company
PARC contract is crap but also beacuse it’s a crap, you can avoid all penalties if you leave earlier. Just consulting a lawyer, you can find that they don’t have any legal basis for most of the things they ask for.
Also, you signed 7 days off per month, so why would you expect more?
Days off were defined. If it’s not clear in OM, you should consult CAAV flight time limitations document. It was based on UK CAP, so pretty detailed and good (maybe that changed but 2 years ago it was still in force).
And nobody can force you to fly above the limits or to use your discretion if you don’t want to do it. They can try, but as a captain you can and should decline it
Also, I believe that your 19h duty was with augmented crew, so it’s little bit more complicated

[EagleA25]

... nobody can force you to fly above the limits or to use your discretion if you don’t want to do it. They can try, but as a captain you can and should decline it




Actually, they can... not sure if you’re flying in Vietnam Airlines, but the FOM clearly states that the VP of Operations can order any extension necessary for the continuance of the operation. I’ve seen those authorisations in the Hanoi Briefing Room, they have then pre-signed there; blank checks lying around...

In reference to your “augmented Crew”: where is it allowed on the Narrow body to do so? Your third-world-country business class seat in the A321is NOT approved by the CAAV as an apropriate rest place. It is neither isolated nor adequate.
I personally brought this subject up with my Broker, and after months being ignored I sent an email to the fleet manager himself. Same resonse as my broker! None
You want to discuss legality of a communist led company owned by a communist country? Legality is the least of their worries; we are defined mercenaries, we might as well break the rules for THEM, because following SOP’s strictly at VNA requieres absolute flexibility...
Everyone talks about it, everyone here knows it, and even my own layer told me, the reenforced crew procedure at VNA is both illegal AND unsafe, but it makes them rich, Expats are expendable, so no one cares about your legality here, unless they get another event, and then the Expat has to go...

[bigbird]

Missing VNA threads? I can still see this?

[EagleA25]

Missing VNA threads? I can still see this?
Yeah; the thread disappeared for a few days... weired...

[Folsom]

Vietnam Airlines issues RFP for Regional Jet ACMI. News anyone?

[skyrocket]

B787 Captains,

New rounds of recruiting going on from various agents.

A few questions that have been covered before however a bit dated so I ask again.

1, Basings, Hanoi or HCM ? (Agency says both)
2. 6/2 contract to start then 5/3 on offer, what would the salary deduction be in percentage?
3. Does the tax credit certificate work in home countries.?
4. What does the general roster look like, hours? days off? routes?
5. Does the upgrade to business class normally work on positioning to/from HCM or is it a on seats available only?
6. Which agency is the preferred or most likely to hold your back? If any.

Thanks for all relevant information. Still in the decision mode to apply or not.

Skyrocket..

[Ruzki]

This is was 1 year ago ( not 10 years ago )

Dear A321 First Officers,

As you will be aware, there is growing uncertainty around the future of the A321 First Officer role at VNA and unfortunately, overnight, we were advised that VNA will soon be releasing A321 First Officers (with 60 days notice).

At this time we do not know who or when, but indications are that notice will be given in stages throughout the year, commencing this month.

RAL is continuing to communicate with VNA about this situation and will keep you updated with any news as we receive it, so that you will be fully updated as you consider your future options.

We understand that this is very difficult news to hear, and we will do our best to assist you as much as possible over the coming months. Given this news, however, we strongly recommend that you start to take steps now to secure your next contract opportunity.

Regarding opportunities available to you, I note that we work very closely with Jetstar Pacific and they are currently recruiting A320 FOs. Please find attached the brief outlining details of this role. Also attached are briefing documents for other roles that you may qualify for and be interested in. Please do not hesitate to contact the Recruitment Consultant noted on the brief for further information about any of these roles, and copy me into your email.

Once again, we will keep you all updated as news come to hand. In the meantime, if you have any further questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Regional Manager

you all have been warned. Ask your agencies about that

[kimono1950]

Do not forget the same email about the B777 and A330 !

[kimono1950]

VIETNAM AIRLINES

A320 FIRST OFFICER OPPORTUNITIES

Vietnam Airlines is accepting applications for A320 First Officers!!

Air travel, hotel and ground transportation will be provided. If you are interested, please APPLY NOW!

Benefits:

Very Competitive Pay - Increase in pay is expected
Annual Salary Increase from 3rd Year
Taxes Paid - Tax Certificate Provided
Flexible Commuting Roster
Amazing World-Class Pilot Insurance
Life Insurance Offered
Retirement Benefits
Excellent Great Working Conditions
Pilot Income Protection
Career Progression with Opportunity to Upgrade to A320

What a joke.

[kwaiyai]

Rishw555555 sent me something about Captain opportunity's at VNA very recently too.

Would be interesting to see what the recruiter in Kimono's post above would say about that email Ruzki
posted.

[Ruzki]

This is was 1 year ago ( not 10 years ago )

Dear A321 First Officers,

As you will be aware, there is growing uncertainty around the future of the A321 First Officer role at VNA and unfortunately, overnight, we were advised that VNA will soon be releasing A321 First Officers (with 60 days notice).

At this time we do not know who or when, but indications are that notice will be given in stages throughout the year, commencing this month.

RAL is continuing to communicate with VNA about this situation and will keep you updated with any news as we receive it, so that you will be fully updated as you consider your future options.

We understand that this is very difficult news to hear, and we will do our best to assist you as much as possible over the coming months. Given this news, however, we strongly recommend that you start to take steps now to secure your next contract opportunity.

Regarding opportunities available to you, I note that we work very closely with Jetstar Pacific and they are currently recruiting A320 FOs. Please find attached the brief outlining details of this role. Also attached are briefing documents for other roles that you may qualify for and be interested in. Please do not hesitate to contact the Recruitment Consultant noted on the brief for further information about any of these roles, and copy me into your email.

Once again, we will keep you all updated as news come to hand. In the meantime, if you have any further questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Regional Manager

if someone thinking to apply be sure in 1/2 years when the new cadets will be ready is going to happen again.
this is not at rumor this is a fact

[kimono1950]

Yes, when the cadets will be ready, means in about 1 year it will be bye bye for the poor sods , whom believe these monkeys.

[ia1166]

I just finished 4 years withVNA.
Unfortunalty They have gotten worse every year I have been here.
You make the mistake of going with Parc. Your contract is worth nothing.
7 paid sick days in 6 months says the contract. But company changed FOM
so your schedule if screwed for rest of month after calling in sick and you have to work extra day to repay company.
how is that a paid sick day? Basically the company does what ever they want and Parc
Rolls over immediately. There are No Regs Here at all. If You go over Your allowed Captains discretion
Vice President calls and all of a sudden You are magically legal to fly till u drop. I have been coerced into doing 19 hour 6 sector all nite
duty!!!! And forget about any travel benfits. U only get ( more expensive then real ticket online) standby tickets
only where company operates. No sky team. No code shar, no zed far. No interline.
because of the contract you will work 100 hours month-No over time, because that's 160 hours
in 2 calendar months. With 6/2 schedule you will fly 159.9 hours in 6 weeks. You will have God awful
all night china turn arounds 3 -4 times per month. You will never ever get more then 7 days off in a month.
and they have no definition of what a day off is ( even though u are required to have 7 per month).No one knows what a day off is here.
they told me that I had day off when My report was at 00:30!!!! There are no rules. Schedules always change
its about the worst contract I have had ( out of 11 companys I have worked for on contract). They treat foreigners just as bad as they
Treat each other. To summarize. You will hate it, and when You leave they will try and charge you money for every sick day or day off they said you owe them. Basic a fu..^*¥ed up company that gets worse every month. I am so happy not to work there any more.
thats just Me. You might enjoy the abuse. Good Luck!


you didnt leave, you were terminated. Lets be truthful here. And maybe if you didnt take all your sick leave all the time your manday calculation would have been different.

The days off are in the FOM. Maybe you need to actually read it, as well as the sop by the way.

yes i know who you are.

[ia1166]

Yeap; you pretty much beat me to responding to Luke...
perhaps a side note: a reason for a go-around for statistical purposes I would request, purpose to identify patterns such as ATC, weather, or simply Pilot Training.
One thing I like what you said, and I mean a lot, is the “get rid of punitive measurement” and “need for public shaming”mentality; I just can’t get my head around how the Chief Pilot wishes to improve their relationship with pilots by handing it to them with sticks. Do managers really believe we wake up and get out of bed in the morning with the intent of breaking an airplane today?

Luke, in my comments I ment no offense, and I think (and hope) we’re all on the same team, because I know it’s hard to teach common sense in this region; what is even harder is teaching in an internal company culture that inspires a privilege of laziness, Because that is what is happening: we are too comfortable with not moving another finger to even audit ourselfs when we fly! Perhaps even because some of us might not like what we will see at the end as the work ambience of the company promotes a level laziness that I can only describe as Habit-forming; and I am the first to admit: I am one of them!
I agree that “**** happens”, and being a keen AvHerald reader, I am very aware it happens all the time; but you can’t just go out to the plane with your fingers crossed hoping that it won’t happen to you today.
I remember hearing a local FO saying “we don’t always have to do everything perfectly!” to which I replied asking him if he would want ME to do my job perfectly if his mother or girlfriend was on board; guess what, I’ve never seen an FO enter the requested enrute winds so quickly into the MCDU in my career because I explained him that we owe this to all our customers, not just his family...
Fact is, if your normal ops is disciplined, your abnormal will be a matter of mind-over-body; but when things go wrong and you were not doing your job the way you are supposed to, and are not used to doing it, chances are that will probably end with a hull loss if it is a more complex failure.

But, as asked, here is my wish, Luke, and IA1166:
take the list that Wingedeagle mentioned and put it in front of management, in writing; that way it is a responsability that the managers HAVE to comply with or be accountable in case of an accident.
Have the balls as experienced instructors in Vietnam Airlines to highly recommend these changes, promote a non-punitive SMS system, one that analyzes data and corrects behavior, not beats its best source of information to pulp and into submission by ways of the force and fear! If not, the turn over rate will just keep going and nothing good will come from that... I myself am just too lazy to look for a new job by now...

sure , and should we talk about your recent cxr report? Pages and pages of all the fos fault? And where would you go after here and india anyway?

stop blaming me. My conscience is clear. My line check and sim check fail rate is higher here than any time before.

[ia1166]

I just finished 4 years withVNA.
Unfortunalty They have gotten worse every year I have been here.
You make the mistake of going with Parc. Your contract is worth nothing.
7 paid sick days in 6 months says the contract. But company changed FOM
so your schedule if screwed for rest of month after calling in sick and you have to work extra day to repay company.
how is that a paid sick day? Basically the company does what ever they want and Parc
Rolls over immediately. There are No Regs Here at all. If You go over Your allowed Captains discretion
Vice President calls and all of a sudden You are magically legal to fly till u drop. I have been coerced into doing 19 hour 6 sector all nite
duty!!!! And forget about any travel benfits. U only get ( more expensive then real ticket online) standby tickets
only where company operates. No sky team. No code shar, no zed far. No interline.
because of the contract you will work 100 hours month-No over time, because that's 160 hours
in 2 calendar months. With 6/2 schedule you will fly 159.9 hours in 6 weeks. You will have God awful
all night china turn arounds 3 -4 times per month. You will never ever get more then 7 days off in a month.
and they have no definition of what a day off is ( even though u are required to have 7 per month).No one knows what a day off is here.
they told me that I had day off when My report was at 00:30!!!! There are no rules. Schedules always change
its about the worst contract I have had ( out of 11 companys I have worked for on contract). They treat foreigners just as bad as they
Treat each other. To summarize. You will hate it, and when You leave they will try and charge you money for every sick day or day off they said you owe them. Basic a fu..^*¥ed up company that gets worse every month. I am so happy not to work there any more.
thats just Me. You might enjoy the abuse. Good Luck!



so, in summary then, you want a 2 week holiday every 6 weeks, and 10 days off a month, and 14 days sick leave a year.

thats around 200 days off in a 360 day year. And on the 160 days left you want to fly enought to get overtime?

is that about it?

Mate good luck with that!

[Dogged]

Hi, Does anyone have information on the 787 DEC selection process at VNA. I’m scheduled for an interview in a couple months but have little info on what to expect. I can share what I have if you can do the same. Good CRM and all. Thanks.

[EagleA25]

...

stop blaming me. My conscience is clear. My line check and sim check fail rate is higher here than any time before.


I think you still not getting my point; I am not blaming anyone nor am I willing to finger-point!
I’m happy your conscience is clear and you’re sleeping tight, but your “fail-ratio” is not something I’d be proud of, but as you mention this, I think this is exactly the problem. Are you sure you, your experience, your knowledge, your training and your leadership is actually being respected?
Ask yourself that next time at your watering hole...

[Merovingio]

Hi all,
Do you have any info regarding first officers A350 recruitment??? Thank you in advance.

[arigato]

Just like in any other outfit, some people are egotistically moron who try to prove to the world that they have the absolute monopoly of knowledge and experience and at times racist or personal.
True leaders have a strong moral courage to act and perform with a positive result in deep sense of humility. They are not only respected but exalted. Just my 2 cents observation. SAFE FLIGHT!!!

[EagleA25]

Hi all,
Do you have any info regarding first officers A350 recruitment??? Thank you in advance.
Last I heared the A350 is only accessible from within as some pay a lot of $$$ to the overlords to upgrade. I’m not even sure if the wide body fleet is recruiting FO’s right now at all. Ask around in Rishworth, FCI or Parc...

[Merovingio]

Last I heared the A350 is only accessible from within as some pay a lot of $$$ to the overlords to upgrade. I’m not even sure if the wide body fleet is recruiting FO’s right now at all. Ask around in Rishworth, FCI or Parc...
Thank you. May I have any feedback of ambient, roster, commuting chances for 350 first officer in vna? Thank you.

[skyrocket]

Does any B787 Captains wish to share via PM or public a average month or 6 weeks roster please?

[atpcliff]

so, in summary then, you want a 2 week holiday every 6 weeks, and 10 days off a month, and 14 days sick leave a year.

thats around 200 days off in a 360 day year. And on the 160 days left you want to fly enought to get overtime?

is that about it?

Mate good luck with that!

I am at Atlas Air, and our contract is quite sub-standard compared to UAL/AA/Delta/Southwest/UPS/FedEx/Alaskan/Hawaiian/Spirit, etc.
We get off close to 200 days a year, and it is easy to get overtime, if you want it.
If you fly for one of the "better" US carriers, then you can have more days off.
Senior pilots at all the above, can work as little as 6-8 days/month, AND have a lot of vacation.

At Atlas, if you have scheduled two weeks of vacation in a month, and you want more, you can automatically get the whole month off. A number of pilots I know of have set their schedules up to get two months off in a row, including over the summer. The best I ever heard anyone do was be off from 1Jun-27Aug. That pilot got the min pay of 62 hours/month during that time off.

If you are fatigued at Atlas, for ANY reason, you just call scheduling, tell them you are fatigued, and you're done. They will give you 12 hours min rest, or any amount more than that if you request it.

We recently had a terrible time getting airlined (always in biz/1st class on intntl itineraries) from HKG-XIY. It took us all day. When we finally got to the hotel, our standard min rest is 8 hours of sleep opportunity in our hotel room. I didn't even call fatigued...just told them that because of our situation, we needed 12 hours until the wakeup call, which would delay the trip about four hours. Scheduling said no problem, and set our wakeup call for 12 hours away.

Many foreign contracts, including Emirates and others, are VERY sub-standard vs US terms and conditions.

Fatigue kills. We need decent rest, and vacation. If you don't have that, you aren't providing your customers with a reasonable level of safety.

[iggy]

Cliff, any manager of any Asian airline (except perhaps Cathay) would faint after hearing that. It is not uncommon for contract pilots to get fired when they reach the yearly block time limit only to be hired again after the mandatory time off so the airline can save (or pocket) the basic salary during that time.

[pezetaroi]

Turns out that the “offer” for VNA A320 FOs is a cheap and dirty trick done by FCI to attract interested aviators. When any applicant refers to this job, after apologizing because “VNA has put FO recruitment on hold” they quickly offer an interview for Jetstar, attaching their current T&Cs on the email.
It is confirmed that VNA is NOT hiring ex pat First Officers, so just beware of the agency you are dealing with...

[kwaiyai]

Well that makes sense especially when you read the post showing an email from VNA planning to let First officers go etc and they will help relocate etc etc,

Regarding opportunities available to you, I note that we work very closely with Jetstar Pacific and they are currently recruiting A320 FOs. Please find attached the brief outlining details of this role. Also attached are briefing documents for other roles that you may qualify for and be interested in. Please do not hesitate to contact the Recruitment Consultant noted on the brief for further information about any of these roles, and copy me into your email.
Once again, we will keep you all updated as news come to hand. In the meantime, if you have any further questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Regional Manager

[kimono1950]

JPA what a joke . They call it a commuting contract , but JPA do not provide the airfares. The wages, too, are too low comparing to VNA. VNA do not need FOs ( it has hired 750 cadets ), it needs a few Cpts for a 2 years transition . The agencies use VNA to catch some morons to fly for JPA at sub standard, so called commuting job .

Try Vietjet, at least that bunch of idiots will pay you a lot more .

[EagleA25]

...
It is confirmed that VNA is NOT hiring ex pat First Officers, so just beware of the agency you are dealing with...
Rumor has it that there are some 400 Local and Pay-to-fly FO’s un the pipeline, the locals being kindly asked to become pilots at almost gunpoint.
So, gone are the days of flying with sons of B787 Management Pilots? ;)

[BAe 146-100]

If your intent of coming to vietnam then Vietjet is your only option and as a capt only, the other 2 are to be avoided. Unless in the case of JPA you wanna fly the same routes and get less money and fly aussie rules .

[Ecam321]

JPA what a joke . They call it a commuting contract , but JPA do not provide the airfares. The wages, too, are too low comparing to VNA. VNA do not need FOs ( it has hired 750 cadets ), it needs a few Cpts for a 2 years transition . The agencies use VNA to catch some morons to fly for JPA at sub standard, so called commuting job .

Try Vietjet, at least that bunch of idiots will pay you a lot more .
so Vietjet pay more than JPA and VNA ? Please could you tell me the average ball park monthly salary of a Vietjet captain.

thanks

[AviatoR21]

Since when was flying ‘Aussie rules’ a bad thing? We are safe, disciplined and adhere to SOP. Unlike the rest of the circus in Vietnam who choose money over safety and security. Good luck to you, personally I’d rather not end up in a smoking hole.

[BAe 146-100]

So in that case because your so called “safer”” (that’s objective by the way) your happy getting paid less for flying the same routes. Ah yes we don’t work for more money, what a stupid concept.

[AviatoR21]

We all work for money! What I’m alluding to is the fact that we don’t fly 200 hour months or pay for command upgrades. Clearly you’re one of the circus monkeys Im talking about who would do a trick for a penny.

[kimono1950]

so Vietjet pay more than JPA and VNA ? Please could you tell me the average ball park monthly salary of a Vietjet captain.

thanks

between 14000 and 16000 US$.

[iggy]

Basic + 100 hours + 50 sectors gives you 12.850 USD, not including perdiems of 50 USD per layover, 80 if it is international. Depending on your agency, time in the airline and performance you may get an additional couple of hundred, 500 tops.

[EagleA25]

I think it’s time for VNA to purchase Bogey Main Gears...

Accident: Vietnam A321 at Hanoi on Jul 28th 2018, temporary runway excursion on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbb586b&opt=0)

what’s that...? The Third Excursion in 18 month’s...?
Sure, nothing wrong with VNA’s Training, ADM and management system... nothing to see here 🤣

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

was the pilots expats again?

[wingdeagle]

I think it’s time for VNA to purchase Bogey Main Gears...

Accident: Vietnam A321 at Hanoi on Jul 28th 2018, temporary runway excursion on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbb586b&opt=0)

what’s that...? The Third Excursion in 18 month’s...?
Sure, nothing wrong with VNA’s Training, ADM and management system... nothing to see here 🤣


These trips into the green are becoming as regular and frequent as the monsoon rain. While runway excursions do happen all over the world, this is like the fifth or sixth in 18 months for VNA (correct me if I am wrong) ? If a certain trend here is not obvious, than the powers in charge are blind. In any case, another public humiliation of "blame the pilots" and every thing is fixed again. Till the next time.

[kimono1950]

VNA got ride of the experienced pilots and people seems surprised of this event !

[EagleA25]

This one’s fantastic; actually occurred just a few days before the one on top:

Accident: Vietnam A321 at Vinh on Jul 16th 2018, foreign object damage during roll out, temporary runway excursion (http://avherald.com/h?article=4bb55f20&opt=0)

I am sure all is explainable... if I was an insurance underwrite, I’d be more than worried. How is VNA still allowed to operate?
They should give Airbus a big kissy; the 321’s a freakin’ truck..!!

[fatbus]

Black list time!

[flying.midget]

hello all, any 787 drivers out there mind answering some questions pm or public? 78 rated and current, but wife and I looking for some new scenery after staring into the abyss of sand for too long now. 1 older child overseas so no schooling required, only got 5/6 years left so not looking for a long time just a (relativity) good time.

-anyone on the 6/2 pattern have a roster or mind sharing some info on the usual trips/hours
-staff travel for myself and spouse only or extended to children? J class ID90 available?
-how are trips, the 350 getting the cream of the crop? or still some good destinations on the 78?

any other info is greatly appreciated.

You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.
cheers f.m

[King on a Wing]

Yep.
Just as Flying Midget put it. Looking for any info on the 789 skipper deal.
Is the take home about the same for the 6/2 and the 3/1? That is about 13K usd?
Hows the lifestyle for a wife and self only.
Is it easy for the wife to commute into Vietnam on a monthly or two monthly basis.
If given a choice which base is better. Hanoi or Ho Chi Min.

Kindly humour me gents. Looking for valid info please.
Thanks

[BAe 146-100]

80% Hanoi and Saigon, maybe once in a while if your lucky you could fly to Korea, the viets take all the good flights to bring duty free to sell back home... who would have thought it

[LimaVictor]

Guys I applied for the captain job on the 787 and was told by the agent in Rishworth that Vietnam airlines has stopped the hiring process in order to evaluate their needs.
Do you guys have another kind of info?

[machngm]

Good morning everyone, i have had the chance to read thru ALL of the threads here, and i must say very helpful info thru so many pages.
As the time has come, for me to venture into the unknown, and basically look to spend some more time closer to my wife home in asia, i am far too old for the uncertainty of china. I.e. medicals or unfairness atleast dispalyed some years ago.

Having said that im am current and rated on the airbus, looking for any guidance as to how VNA roster patterns look on the 6 weeks on ? You can post on public or p.m. if you wish.

[Misteres]

Vietnam Airlines is dying. Local guys are already half way to Bamboo and/or VietJet. Expats to China and/or Middle East.
Corruption is apparently more dangerous for Vietnam and effective then any known weapon system.
Latest idea how to keep expat pilots happy? We have a new hotel in Hanoi (it used to be Sheraton). Local, 3 stars (contract guarantees 4 stars) in the middle of construction works around. Sweet dreams...

[duyen]

Vietnam Airlines is dying. Local guys are already half way to Bamboo and/or VietJet. Expats to China and/or Middle East.
Corruption is apparently more dangerous for Vietnam and effective then any known weapon system.
Latest idea how to keep expat pilots happy? We have a new hotel in Hanoi (it used to be Sheraton). Local, 3 stars (contract guarantees 4 stars) in the middle of construction works around. Sweet dreams...

Yay to the new hotel in Hanoi! its awesome! This is how the hotel planner aka the old fart Capt America screw the expats. Oh wait, he screws everything up in fact.

[machngm]

Just curious doesn't VNA have a huge fleet order already? I believe i read they are looking to atleast double in size, or is that just smoke and mirrors? Seriously considering to join 😰😰 Is it only first officers leaving or Captains as well?

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hey machngm I can't reply to your PM unless you clear some space from your inbox first

[Yesse]

Thank you. May I have any feedback of ambient, roster, commuting chances for 350 first officer in vna? Thank you.
My friend, i can tell you all you want. To start, joining VNA as Captain is not a good idea, so you can imagine as FO, is even worse. The A350 fleet is good, but will be around 1-2 more years that the expat FO will be fired again. The growing of the fleet will be stopped ( they will receive just 2 more aircraft this year and no more A350 for VNA ), and when this happens, the A350 fleet, even 787 fleet will be filled with local guys, pushing out all expat. That's the plan of the comoany. The thing is that now they have a huge hole that they need to cover, and the agencies are just.... I will not say the word... So when the expat coming now save their ass... And when they don't need you anymore, they will not care about your life or whatever, you will receive 60 days notice and goodbye. Knowing this company, i could say that the ONLY one reason to come, is if you have a contract where "at least" they remove the part of the 60 days notice, and some compensation in case of being fired before the agreed time signed on the contract. If not, better stay away. You don't know when, but will happen, you can't feel safe here bro. My recommendation, stay away. I just left the company almost one year ago, and after that, i was wondering... What the hell i was doing there the last 15 years... Finally, if you decide to come, more as an FO, doesn't matter which fleet, you take the risk to have a serious problem in your career, more with A350, because will be not easy to find a job with this TR when they fire you.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x960/56fbee7e_39dd_411c_ae72_aa21fea9129f_6651dd84a66c4509f9a6912 9cb1802ca7e94ce04.jpeg

Just one example of what they were managing. To fire expat makes them so happy, i tell you. This info is updated continuosly. The last info i had was last month, when they expect to cut up to 250 Captains and 0 FO's expat by 2020. So, on your own risk guys, don't believe the agencies!!!!

[ia1166]

My friend, i can tell you all you want. To start, joining VNA as Captain is not a good idea, so you can imagine as FO, is even worse. The A350 fleet is good, but will be around 1-2 more years that the expat FO will be fired again. The growing of the fleet will be stopped ( they will receive just 2 more aircraft this year and no more A350 for VNA ), and when this happens, the A350 fleet, even 787 fleet will be filled with local guys, pushing out all expat. That's the plan of the comoany. The thing is that now they have a huge hole that they need to cover, and the agencies are just.... I will not say the word... So when the expat coming now save their ass... And when they don't need you anymore, they will not care about your life or whatever, you will receive 60 days notice and goodbye. Knowing this company, i could say that the ONLY one reason to come, is if you have a contract where "at least" they remove the part of the 60 days notice, and some compensation in case of being fired before the agreed time signed on the contract. If not, better stay away. You don't know when, but will happen, you can't feel safe here bro. My recommendation, stay away. I just left the company almost one year ago, and after that, i was wondering... What the hell i was doing there the last 15 years... Finally, if you decide to come, more as an FO, doesn't matter which fleet, you take the risk to have a serious problem in your career, more with A350, because will be not easy to find a job with this TR when they fire you.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x960/56fbee7e_39dd_411c_ae72_aa21fea9129f_6651dd84a66c4509f9a6912 9cb1802ca7e94ce04.jpeg

Just one example of what they were managing. To fire expat makes them so happy, i tell you. This info is updated continuosly. The last info i had was last month, when they expect to cut up to 250 Captains and 0 FO's expat by 2020. So, on your own risk guys, don't believe the agencies!!!!


15 years is as long as i have been here.

there were not that many ex pats here then, and i dont know you.

[kimono1950]

What I have been hearing ,it is, by 2023, it will be no more expats in VNA ( FOs and Cpts ).

Good luck, if you chose to come to VNA !

[pezetaroi]

What I have been hearing ,it is, by 2023, it will be no more expats in VNA ( FOs and Cpts )

Kimono, previously you stated that in 2018, after that 2020, now 2023? You’re such a reliable source! If you’re still flying in VNA, what are you doing there? all you do is complain. If you’re not flying in VNA anymore, why all the complaints? let it go and get a life man! There are plenty of pilots who actually enjoy flying in VNA, if it wasn’t because of the money, I would probably still be there. You are so blinded by your negativity that you can’t see the bright side and just to remind you, there is no perfect job out there, or is there?

[kimono1950]

Kimono, previously you stated that in 2018, after that 2020, now 2023? You’re such a reliable source! If you’re still flying in VNA, what are you doing there? all you do is complain. If you’re not flying in VNA anymore, why all the complaints? let it go and get a life man! There are plenty of pilots who actually enjoy flying in VNA, if it wasn’t because of the money, I would probably still be there. You are so blinded by your negativity that you can’t see the bright side and just to remind you, there is no perfect job out there, or is there?






I have never say by 2018 VNA wouldn't t have any expat ! I said by 2018 it will be no more expat FOs on the A330. The 2020 was a forecast from the chief pilot, back in 2017.

Now the latest news are 2023. If you are flying in VNA ask any vietnamese pilot about that.

But , you are right , in VNA there is no reliable source, as these monkeys are not able to organise any business plan.

[Luke SkyToddler]

There may indeed have been a plan to reduce expat numbers, before VJ and Bamboo started plundering all the local pilots, but the fact is that right now the Vietnamese captains and high time FOs are leaving faster than they can upgrade them. They can’t get more locals, so their option is either to hire more expats, or park aircraft.

A330 was a special case because the fleet was getting finished. We (the FOs) were all offered the A350 RHS but most of us chose not to take it, because we had offers from several other companies to go and take quick commands elsewhere.

There are certainly issues of concern here, but job security isn’t one of them, for anybody except Kimono anyway ��

[kimono1950]

There may indeed have been a plan to reduce expat numbers, before VJ and Bamboo started plundering all the local pilots, but the fact is that right now the Vietnamese captains and high time FOs are leaving faster than they can upgrade them. They can’t get more locals, so their option is either to hire more expats, or park aircraft.

A330 was a special case because the fleet was getting finished. We (the FOs) were all offered the A350 RHS but most of us chose not to take it, because we had offers from several other companies to go and take quick commands elsewhere.

There are certainly issues of concern here, but job security isn’t one of them, for anybody except Kimono anyway ��




Job security isn t a concern in VNA ? Are you kidding ? You should ask to the B777 crews, the A330/321 FOs what choices they had !

You said all the FOs on the A330 were offered the A350 ? That is a lie. The proof is that only 5 FOs were taken in the A350 ( 1 indian, 1 spaniard, 3 russians ).

About the vietnamese pilots, you forget VNA has hired 750 cadets ( plus some foreigners P2F). In 3 to 5 years, some of these cadets will be upgraded .
I am telling you, there is no futur for the expats in VNA.

[kimono1950]

This is was 1 year ago ( not 10 years ago )

Dear A321 First Officers,

As you will be aware, there is growing uncertainty around the future of the A321 First Officer role at VNA and unfortunately, overnight, we were advised that VNA will soon be releasing A321 First Officers (with 60 days notice).

At this time we do not know who or when, but indications are that notice will be given in stages throughout the year, commencing this month.

RAL is continuing to communicate with VNA about this situation and will keep you updated with any news as we receive it, so that you will be fully updated as you consider your future options.

We understand that this is very difficult news to hear, and we will do our best to assist you as much as possible over the coming months. Given this news, however, we strongly recommend that you start to take steps now to secure your next contract opportunity.

Regarding opportunities available to you, I note that we work very closely with Jetstar Pacific and they are currently recruiting A320 FOs. Please find attached the brief outlining details of this role. Also attached are briefing documents for other roles that you may qualify for and be interested in. Please do not hesitate to contact the Recruitment Consultant noted on the brief for further information about any of these roles, and copy me into your email.

Once again, we will keep you all updated as news come to hand. In the meantime, if you have any further questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Regional Manager

if someone thinking to apply be sure in 1/2 years when the new cadets will be ready is going to happen again.
this is not at rumor this is a fact

About job security in VNA

[BAe 146-100]

Fancy low pay, mels galore, asshole connected FOs low job security with no back up from your management, welcome yo join VNA!!!

[wingdeagle]

About job security in VNA

You guys keep cracking me up (making me laugh in American English). You are looking for job security in the airline industry ? Ever considered becoming a Doctor, policeman or a lawyer ? Here is job security for you.

For those new to the contract world or living on Planet Delusional like Kimono:
- you are on loan by an agency. You are NOT working for THE airline.
- as a contractor you may be lucky to upgrade or change fleets as it has happened at VNA in the past, but you cannot expect it.
- you are looking for same treatment as the loclas: stay in your coutry and be a part of the locals.
- the length of your contract is worthless. The contract can be terminated from BOTH sides within a written time frame. This also gives you as pilot a way out, incase you are not happy where you are.
- you are being paid to fly an airplane from A to B and not to get involved in company planning and politics. This is THEIR company, your company is your agent.
- in most cases your contract will be honored and you will get paid on time for the services you provide. This is it.

Like many airlines, VNA is facing massive challenges. I was there many years.
Pros: Locals are mostly very nice, friendly and welcoming. They are a pleasure to work with. Pay is on time. Plenty new birds to fly and Vietnam is simply awsome and offers a very laid back life style. Despite the crazy traffic.
Cons: Substandard contract. No pay raise in almost 10 years, while inflation is through the roof. If you bring your family, you will be paycheck to paycheck. Overcrowded ATC environment and diminishing standards on flight deck, making the operation very challenging and extremely stressful.

Again, if you are looking for job security, consider becoming a firefighter 😜.

[kimono1950]

I was not there for a job security but to have my contract fulfil ! That is a big difference !
Now the people here, have been lied upon and deceived by a bunch of monkey boys ,whom does not respect what they have signed. They just give you 60 days, make you fly until your PPC expire and then goodbye.
Try to do the same on your side , you will see the difference.

[wingdeagle]

I was not there for a job security but to have my contract fulfil ! That is a big difference !
Now the people here, have been lied upon and deceived by a bunch of monkey boys ,whom does not respect what they have signed. They just give you 60 days, make you fly until your PPC expire and then goodbye.
Try to do the same on your side , you will see the difference.

Yours and all the other contracts had the 60 termination clause which in some cases the company opted to use. This is within their right, it’s brutal, it’s aviation business and it sucks, but it is legal. Why is it so hard to understand ?
When I left VNA I actually used the 60 day clause myself; as I said, this can be beneficial for both sides. There are expats who spent 20+ years in VNA and plenty with 10+. A rather unusual stat in the contract world.
They may have not fulfilled your expectations, but calling people of other nationality and race “monkeys” as you do in almost all of your posts makes me suspect, that this is the attitude and disrespect you must have shown the locals while being in Vietnam, so perhaps they had all the reason to.

[kimono1950]

Wrong again !

[AVApilot]

If you bring your family, you will be paycheck to paycheck.

Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldn’t find anything recent about this.

[pezetaroi]

Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldn’t find anything recent about this.

It all depends on your status. Are you single, married, kids, etc... Maybe if you’re a bit more specific on your plans I can have an idea...

[wingdeagle]

Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldn’t find anything recent about this.
PM me, I will give you a few numbers to work with. If you are single or there by yourself, it’s ok money. With a family (children in international schools) think twice.

[ia1166]

Kimono, a good advestisement for anger managament classes.

seriosly get some help. You cant be so angry and still be in the cockpit.

As far as job security? Over 14 years for me. New 5 year contract and i am not expecting to be terminated during it. As always keeping an eye on the situation and will leave before i am pushed, and wont be the last to turn the lights out.

but for now, i dont see any issues for my next five years.

The renumeration is too low now, so hoping something may be done. I am getting too many offers of more money to ignore.

If you are a contract expat FO then you are always at risk.

[EagleA25]

Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldn’t find anything recent about this.

Qaualiry, International Schooling prices are
going through the roof; especially in Hanoi and Da Nang; at the UN Intl. you will pay almost US$2k per kid; add to that a quality home somewhere nice, your 10.8 will start disappearing as quickly as you see it coming in...

[ROCCO SIFFREDI]

I can confirm that. Prices have gone up 20%. A good school will cost you 2000 USD. Don't forget also the premium you are paying because you are an expat, on everything that does not have price tag on it. Sometime up 4 times more then a local would have paid. VNA really needs to reconsider the salaries, specially now when Bamboo is opening.

Ciao,,,,

[ROCCO SIFFREDI]

Wow, we are getting a pay rise.... link PAY RISE (/jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401490021/new-vietnam-airlines-a320-captain-pay-increase-expected-/) .....or is it another trick to lure in pilots.

[kimono1950]

Pay rise ? Ha hahahahahahah !

[kwaiyai]

I like the way it says pay increase expected. :D

[Count von Altibar]

So 4 on 4 off and 5 on 3 off is only for instructors according to the FCI website that's a bit crap. I don't think they're going to increase the $$ as it wasn't long ago they did the increment thing but I guess if they cannot get pilots then money talks.

[BAe 146-100]

There has been expected pay increase since 2007 and its never happened, as long as they can get people then nothing will change. Theres never a shortage of desperate guys waiting to join just round the corner.

[machngm]

Good evening everyone, may i ask which agency is the best suited for work out there? FCI and Rishworth both seem to have contracts however, i was told of a third but cannot seem to find it? Does one have to use an agency or can one simply apply directly? Upon reading all the posts on here the last one regarding the interview process was some 4 yours ago. Is there any “new” changes to prepare for i.e. written test and sim for the airbus fleets? I my self am in my mid 50’s airbus rated. I was told to use ace the pilot interview, is this sufficient to study? Smooth flights to you all, hope that you all get the payrise sonner rather than later.

[PoyCNC]

Third one is PARC. For the interview, there's multiple choice questions with majority of the items coming from Smart Cockpit. Interview portion for my case were mostly airbus specific questions and Low Vis procedures. Nothing from the Ace book, but it's always different questions with different interviewers. Good luck.

[Yesse]

My gosh, and now they are "trying" to hire FO's for the A350?? And the most important, they said with upgrade opportunity? I really don't know if to laugh or cry, hahaha!!!!! Who will be the brave one who will even think about it?? When one year ago they fired all expat FO's and asked the expat captains to reduce their roster pattern to 4x4 because they had too many pilots? Now many of the local pilots left to Bamboo Airways and they need to cover the huge hole they have, and then, when they don't need you anymore, good bye again with 60 days notice. Don't trust any agency guys, everything is a joke, really. But if someone dares to join VNA after all things happened, up to you. I just did what i think i had to do for my colleagues. This place is not safe anymore, you will just cover the need they have for a while, then they will get rid of you, same as one year ago. Good luck!!

[ia1166]

First rule of the contract pilot. You are only as good as your last pay check.

thats the point.

[Yesse]

First rule of the contract pilot. You are only as good as your last pay check.

thats the point.


Yes, specially with VNA

[bringbackthe80s]

It’s simple, if you’re don’t want to deal with different mentalities and ways you stay at your local LCC and do 4 legs every day for 30 years (unless your country offers a good legacy and you’re good/lucky enough to get in).

IF NOT, then you enjoy different experiences throughout your career that even 20 years ago would be unthinkable, and accept the this comes with some downsides and risks.

Up to you.

[ia1166]

Yes, specially with VNA

i disagree. No more than anywhere else. The point of being a contract pilot is you are only here until the host has enough local guys to replace you. Then you get a contract somewhere else.

i have been here nearly 15 years. 5 years longer than i expected. And i expect to be here at least another 5 years if i want to be. I may look to move if no salary increase comes along sson. But i dont see them replacing all the expats in the next 5 years, maybe more.

as a contractor, you are still a temporary post holder though. Take it or leave it. Any downturn, we will be the first out the door..

[Yesse]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x960/e24878c3_2ad3_440f_bd22_3d09cdb4e635_79660633bd52df4908c6133 f79718b9da06c5c81.jpeg


i disagree. No more than anywhere else. The point of being a contract pilot is you are only here until the host has enough local guys to replace you. Then you get a contract somewhere else.

i have been here nearly 15 years. 5 years longer than i expected. And i expect to be here at least another 5 years if i want to be. I may look to move if no salary increase comes along sson. But i dont see them replacing all the expats in the next 5 years, maybe more.

as a contractor, you are still a temporary post holder though. Take it or leave it. Any downturn, we will be the first out the door..
Look, i agree with all that you said, they can fire you whenever they want, is their company, ok. The point is that they did it already last year, firing with 60 days notice all expat FO's, and why? Because they had a business with Mr Patella who was bringing expat cadets, these guys paid 100.000 USD to VNA for the training ( one of these cadets told me personally ) without salary, just an apartment in Royal City for the first year. If they quit before 5 years, they loose the money. Of course, all of them knew that was just an investment and they will loose the money, and VNA also. So, 1 million USD per 10 expat cadets, such an amazing business, plus no salary, much cheaper than a proffesional SFO. So this is how VNA works in general. Yesterday was good, today so so, but tomorrow will be not better. I have been there 15 years also, and around one year ago i left VNA, and yes, maybe you know me, but of course i will not reveal who am i. The idea is ro warn all other colleagues about VNA, specially SFO, because now they are looking for A350 FO's. Sorry, but you can't say they will be safe here. With the A350 TR, if they give you the 60 days notice, tell me where will you find a new job. So that's why, don't believe the agencies, there is not any kind of upgrade apportunity, unless you know the right person to pass him/her 25.000 usd under the table. So, if you are flying A350 in some other company and your position is at least stable, don't risk that stability, soon or later you will value that the most. And just in case somebody forgot, here are the numbers again. Explain that pale!!

[ia1166]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x960/e24878c3_2ad3_440f_bd22_3d09cdb4e635_79660633bd52df4908c6133 f79718b9da06c5c81.jpeg

Look, i agree with all that you said, they can fire you whenever they want, is their company, ok. The point is that they did it already last year, firing with 60 days notice all expat FO's, and why? Because they had a business with Mr Patella who was bringing expat cadets, these guys paid 100.000 USD to VNA for the training ( one of these cadets told me personally ) without salary, just an apartment in Royal City for the first year. If they quit before 5 years, they loose the money. Of course, all of them knew that was just an investment and they will loose the money, and VNA also. So, 1 million USD per 10 expat cadets, such an amazing business, plus no salary, much cheaper than a proffesional SFO. So this is how VNA works in general. Yesterday was good, today so so, but tomorrow will be not better. I have been there 15 years also, and around one year ago i left VNA, and yes, maybe you know me, but of course i will not reveal who am i. The idea is ro warn all other colleagues about VNA, specially SFO, because now they are looking for A350 FO's. Sorry, but you can't say they will be safe here. With the A350 TR, if they give you the 60 days notice, tell me where will you find a new job. So that's why, don't believe the agencies, there is not any kind of upgrade apportunity, unless you know the right person to pass him/her 25.000 usd under the table. So, if you are flying A350 in some other company and your position is at least stable, don't risk that stability, soon or later you will value that the most. And just in case somebody forgot, here are the numbers again. Explain that pale!!



any fo contract is fraught with danger. I think some of the guys looking at the fo 350 are also looking at a 320 command in the future. In any event i am sure they can make their own mind up.

[Yesse]

any fo contract is fraught with danger. I think some of the guys looking at the fo 350 are also looking at a 320 command in the future. In any event i am sure they can make their own mind up.

Yes, any FO contract is dangerous, but in VNA is more than anywhere else. Remmeber, they fired all of them last year. And about the command upgrade on A320, as long as they could bring indians and russian pilots, no upgrade for expat FO's in VNA. Only a few years ago they gave upgrade to some FO's, but that will not happen again with all new local cadets and all local FO's waiting for their chance for the left seat. Lets be realistic and don't give hope when there are not. I could tell you a few stories about some SFO who were fired because they didn't pay the 20-25 grand under the table, and some others who paid and then they fail them
in the sim for some ridiculous situations, like the subjetive CRM.

[kimono1950]

Last year, 10 SFO were nominated for the upgrade course and guess what ? They have been fired !

Do not believe these monkeys´ lies !

[Yesse]

Last year, 10 SFO were nominated for the upgrade course and guess what ? They have been fired !

Do not believe these monkeys´ lies !
only 3 FO's were upgraded. One is the son of one pilot XXX, the other 2 italians, and you know about italians... In fact, there was a famous trouble with one of those italians ( they both paid the 25 grand under the table ) because one of them failed the interview, because they confused his name with the name of another guy who went with him the same day to the interview. The other guy passed, and the italian fail, even paying the 25.000. This italian guy was so angry, and finally they request to the guy who passed to repeat the interview 2 months after. Then they both were angry, and the guy who passed said "no way" to repeat the interview when he passed already. They fired him and today the italian who failed is flying as Captain. This is VNA.

[Luke SkyToddler]

I did my upgrade a few months ago. I'm not Italian, or anyone's son. I was never pressured or suggested to pay anything under the table to anyone. My sim partner was also foreign, I'm sure he would say the same thing 100%.

Yes some unprofessional behaviour went down a couple of years ago with how the A321 and the A330 FOs were treated, also some of the A330 captains, I won't deny any of that, but let's not just make up B.S. about how they fired "everyone", and nobody got upgraded without paying black money.

Not trying to start a fight with anyone, just stating the facts :)

[BAe 146-100]

Wouldn’t happen to be a aussie would it.

[Yesse]

Well, if when i was upgraded long time ago, i should have pay some extra coins under the table... i would say the same words as you say. I know this facts by first hands. One thing is for sure, if you pay under the table, you will never put ON the table now that you had to pay. Cheers and congrats!!

[Rotate15]

Hello there,

I see that Rishworth is advertising positions for B787 FOs with Vietnam airlines.
Can somebody give some info about this position? Meaning: average take home pay per month, roster, accomodation, upgrade opportunities, etc?

Thanks

[NicolaiN]

Any info about low hour entry jobs in Vietjet or just in Vietnam ? :D

[Yesse]

Hello there,

I see that Rishworth is advertising positions for B787 FOs with Vietnam airlines.
Can somebody give some info about this position? Meaning: average take home pay per month, roster, accomodation, upgrade opportunities, etc?

Thanks
My friend, the agencies are trying the imposible to bring pilots because many of local guys left to Bamboo Airways. They promise everything, but there are a lot of local guys waiting for the upgrade, and some foreigners flying 787 and 350 already. The real thing is that i don't think that the upgrade opportunity is real if some new guys are coming. They are recruiting a lot of local cadets also, more than 500 starting this 2019, so i don't think that even for the foreigners working for VNA already, will have any chance to be upgraded... is a joke the quantity of lies that the agencies are inventing with VNA. If you just want to be in VNA for a couple of years, i think is ok, but forget about any chance to be upgraded... That is a big lie. About the income, 9200 USD for FO A350 or 787. If you are alone, you can live with 1000 usd plus 1000 more for the rent ( just single room apartment ). If you are with wife and children, forget it... You will just survive month by month. You have to go by yourself to the airport ( 45 minutes from Hanoi or 30 minutes to 1 hour in Saigon ). Forget about drive a car, you will pay 30.000 usd for a car worth 10.000 usd out of VN. There are many good things, but not everything is good. The people is nice, but also the corruption and cheating is everywhere. This is a third world country, beautiful somehow, but not everybody could get use to this. So, as i said, if you just want to try for a couple of years, is perfect. After that i would recomend you to leave as soon as you can, because they just could fire you with 60 days notice, as they did with all the SFO one year ago, and if you don't have plan and savings... Would be a huge problem, because can't do many things with just 60 days. Think well, i am being asked for many friends about these positions also, my answer is the same, stay away ane never listen the lies of the agencies. One of them he came anyway, and after 2 months just left ( and i am talking about a Captain, you could imagine as FO ). I hope this could help. Good luck!!

[Rotate15]

My friend, the agencies are trying the imposible to bring pilots because many of local guys left to Bamboo Airways. They promise everything, but there are a lot of local guys waiting for the upgrade, and some foreigners flying 787 and 350 already. The real thing is that i don't think that the upgrade opportunity is real if some new guys are coming. They are recruiting a lot of local cadets also, more than 500 starting this 2019, so i don't think that even for the foreigners working for VNA already, will have any chance to be upgraded... is a joke the quantity of lies that the agencies are inventing with VNA. If you just want to be in VNA for a couple of years, i think is ok, but forget about any chance to be upgraded...

That is a big lie. About the income, 9200 USD for FO A350 or 787. If you are alone, you can live with 1000 usd plus 1000 more for the rent ( just single room apartment ).

If you are with wife and children, forget it... You will just survive month by month. You have to go by yourself to the airport ( 45 minutes from Hanoi or 30 minutes to 1 hour in Saigon ). Forget about drive a car, you will pay 30.000 usd for a car worth 10.000 usd out of VN. There are many good things, but not everything is good.

The people is nice, but also the corruption and cheating is everywhere. This is a third world country, beautiful somehow, but not everybody could get use to this. So, as i said, if you just want to try for a couple of years, is perfect. After that i would recomend you to leave as soon as you can, because they just could fire you with 60 days notice, as they did with all the SFO one year ago, and if you don't have plan and savings... Would be a huge problem, because can't do many things with just 60 days.

Think well, i am being asked for many friends about these positions also, my answer is the same, stay away ane never listen the lies of the agencies. One of them he came anyway, and after 2 months just left ( and i am talking about a Captain, you could imagine as FO ). I hope this could help. Good luck!!

Hello Yesse,

Thank you for the detailed reply. Lots of useful information about the company.
Cheers

[ia1166]

My friend, the agencies are trying the imposible to bring pilots because many of local guys left to Bamboo Airways. They promise everything, but there are a lot of local guys waiting for the upgrade, and some foreigners flying 787 and 350 already. The real thing is that i don't think that the upgrade opportunity is real if some new guys are coming. They are recruiting a lot of local cadets also, more than 500 starting this 2019, so i don't think that even for the foreigners working for VNA already, will have any chance to be upgraded... is a joke the quantity of lies that the agencies are inventing with VNA. If you just want to be in VNA for a couple of years, i think is ok, but forget about any chance to be upgraded... That is a big lie. About the income, 9200 USD for FO A350 or 787. If you are alone, you can live with 1000 usd plus 1000 more for the rent ( just single room apartment ). If you are with wife and children, forget it... You will just survive month by month. You have to go by yourself to the airport ( 45 minutes from Hanoi or 30 minutes to 1 hour in Saigon ). Forget about drive a car, you will pay 30.000 usd for a car worth 10.000 usd out of VN. There are many good things, but not everything is good. The people is nice, but also the corruption and cheating is everywhere. This is a third world country, beautiful somehow, but not everybody could get use to this. So, as i said, if you just want to try for a couple of years, is perfect. After that i would recomend you to leave as soon as you can, because they just could fire you with 60 days notice, as they did with all the SFO one year ago, and if you don't have plan and savings... Would be a huge problem, because can't do many things with just 60 days. Think well, i am being asked for many friends about these positions also, my answer is the same, stay away ane never listen the lies of the agencies. One of them he came anyway, and after 2 months just left ( and i am talking about a Captain, you could imagine as FO ). I hope this could help. Good luck!!

i know 2 p2f guys that started a couple of years ago. One is now on full fo salary over in jetstar and very happy.

the other is now on the 350 here in vn on full 350 fo salary. He is very happy slso.

seems tonhave been a pretty good move on their part. Worked out very well for them.

[Yesse]

i know 2 p2f guys that started a couple of years ago. One is now on full fo salary over in jetstar and very happy.

the other is now on the 350 here in vn on full 350 fo salary. He is very happy slso.

seems tonhave been a pretty good move on their part. Worked out very well for them.
And the promised upgrade that all the agencies are talking about? I hope you don't say that this is true.

[DonVitto]

And the promised upgrade that all the agencies are talking about? I hope you don't say that this is true.


The agency I’m with has not promised any upgrades but they have pretty much guaranteed a raise this year, It hasn’t happened in the past three years, I don’t see it happening this year either.

I’m more interested to know what you guys think about the latest revision to the FOM, more specifically where it talks about reserves, the way I understand it is we’re now basically available for the company 24/7, please correct me as I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

[BAe 146-100]

i know 2 p2f guys that started a couple of years ago. One is now on full fo salary over in jetstar and very happy.

the other is now on the 350 here in vn on full 350 fo salary. He is very happy slso.

seems tonhave been a pretty good move on their part. Worked out very well for them.

the p2f guys always seem to be better off...wonder why that is.

[Sunliner81]

You idiots. VNA for an expat CAN BE a good job if you are a DEC and looking for a change for whatever reason. It's an even better job if you are out of work and looking for a no-fuss, quick and easy interview, induction and check to line. Your salary isn't too bad and it does go a long way if you are a SINGLE guy. Vietnam in general is great for a single guy if you get my drift : ) The package is even better if one of their destinations is your home city or in close proximity to.

As with anything, the above things WILL NOT apply for everyone. If it doesn't, then VNA isn't for you. It certainly IS NOT a good job for a P2F (no P2F program is ever any good). And it certainly IS NOT a good job for an FO looking to upgrade, or for a Captain looking to transition to bigger equipment without paying for it. If you are one of these guys and still join with those aspirations, you are a FOOL. Stop having a cry on this forum when your 'promises' did not eventuate. You just didn't do your homework. What you are doing is tarnishing this OK job for most because you tried to apply a job that was never suited to your situation.

[Yesse]

You idiots. VNA for an expat CAN BE a good job if you are a DEC and looking for a change for whatever reason. It's an even better job if you are out of work and looking for a no-fuss, quick and easy interview, induction and check to line. Your salary isn't too bad and it does go a long way if you are a SINGLE guy. Vietnam in general is great for a single guy if you get my drift : ) The package is even better if one of their destinations is your home city or in close proximity to.

As with anything, the above things WILL NOT apply for everyone. If it doesn't, then VNA isn't for you. It certainly IS NOT a good job for a P2F (no P2F program is ever any good). And it certainly IS NOT a good job for an FO looking to upgrade, or for a Captain looking to transition to bigger equipment without paying for it. If you are one of these guys and still join with those aspirations, you are a FOOL. Stop having a cry on this forum when your 'promises' did not eventuate. You just didn't do your homework. What you are doing is tarnishing this OK job for most because you tried to apply a job that was never suited to your situation.
How much money is paying VNA for your coments? For your info, me and many others left VNA long time ago by ourselves. Nobody is crying here, just warning other colleages about the risks to left an stable job in another airline for another that could be not safe at all, yes, specially for FO's SFO'S and even Captains, and this is for all fleets, because the corruption there is a fact. Is their airline, i understand, but i had many SFO's friends who were fired just because they found some other business with some foreigner cadets who were paying a huge quantity of money for the training. So good bye to the safety, 3 runway excursions, one landing on the wrong runway, etc etc... And the guys fired they had a 5 years contract, they put the trust on VNA, and on 60 days they were out in the middle of the contract. This is what we are trying to asvise here for all those guys who don't know anything about VNA. Same as all those other colleagues who were fired with no reasons, humilliated and failed in the upgrade interview because they didn't pay the 25.000 USD under the table ( even many of them were much more ready than many other local pilots who were upgraded at that time... But yes... they paid the personal hidden fee ). So please, i don't know for who you ate working for, maybe you are one of those corrup local guys, but don't tell me that VNA is a good place to trust... After 15 years flying there, and as i always say, if you have no job, ok, but if you are flying for any other company, don't even think about VNA, the best thing, stay away.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Well then don't be the guy that lands on the wrong runway or goes off the side of it. YOU can still be a safe captain here, if other people want to fly to a different standard, then that's their problem not yours. Sh!t is still going to happen occasionally because of the uniquely difficult and dangerous environment that we're in here, especially during rainy season, but honestly I have always found the safety management guys to be fair and decent when dealing with minor *** ups, as long as you made the captain report and didn't try to hide it. If you have a major major **** up that hits the headlines or writes off a jet, sure, you'll probably be gone, same with ALL airlines

Don't be the guy who pays money under the table. Despite your never ending claims to the contrary, you DON'T have to pay a single cent under the table money for anything here including the upgrade, IF they respect you and want to keep you around.

If they don't like you, and they don't particularly care if you stay or go, and if they think you have a weak personality and can be squeezed, and especially if they know you're already screwing your colleagues by paying the roster girls for nice roster, and ESPECIALLY if they know you constantly insult them and call them "monkeys" behind their back when you think they're not listening, then maybe they're gonna play money games with you at upgrade time. I wouldn't know :rolleyes:

With regard to the 60 days notice, yep, just like every other contract job. If you get a better offer halfway through your 5 year contract, you, too, can give them 60 days notice and walk away with no penalty. And most people do.

With regard to the JPA Hanoi pilots, 1) it's JPA not VNA, and 2) I am 99% sure that most of them got given the offer to relocate to HCM and continue their employment. Maybe she didn't take that offer for personal reasons, maybe they didn't make her that offer for reasons of their own? I don't know the person. Every airline in the world opens and closes a base sometimes, and makes people redundant, Cathay did it not so long ago.

This place has some issues, but seriously for most people, the crap you keep talking about - 60 days notice period, under-the-table money, failing the upgrade interview - they are NOT problems that affect the majority of pilots here. Just a few guys. For some strange reason. I wonder why :hmm:

[Sunliner81]

How much money is paying VNA for your coments?

Nothing, I no longer work there.

Nobody is crying here, just warning other colleages about the risks to left an stable job in another airline for another that could be not safe at all, yes, specially for FO's SFO'S and even Captains, and this is for all fleets, because the corruption there is a fact.

Leaving any job in a stable airline for a contract job in Asia carries some risk. I agree with you that for FOs, it is a poor choice for career progression. Disagree with you for Captains who want to remain on the A321.

corruption there is a fact.

Its Vietnam, what do you expect? Corrupt or not corrupt, they pay you to fly, and if you fly correctly, you do not hear from them. Life was good for me and my buddies.

i had many SFO's friends who were fired

They were not fired. They had their contracts terminated due to surplus requirements (i.e. cheaper local pilots and P2F fools) in accordance with the contracts that they signed. Like I said before, coming here as an FO carries alot of risk. But they signed the contract...

they put the trust on VNA

Very foolish.

Same as all those other colleagues who were fired with no reasons

Never heard of any expat CAPTAIN who has been fired for no reason. Some have been fired for screwing up, which happens in every airline.

but don't tell me that VNA is a good place to trust... After 15 years flying there, and as i always say, if you have no job, ok, but if you are flying for any other company, don't even think about VNA, the best thing, stay away.

I didn't say that you can trust VNA. I'm saying it can be a good job if you already a Captain, want to remain on the A321 and enjoy the Vietnamese lifestyle for 6 weeks at a time.

[ia1166]

The agency I’m with has not promised any upgrades but they have pretty much guaranteed a raise this year, It hasn’t happened in the past three years, I don’t see it happening this year either.

I’m more interested to know what you guys think about the latest revision to the FOM, more specifically where it talks about reserves, the way I understand it is we’re now basically available for the company 24/7, please correct me as I sincerely hope I’m wrong.


sorry, i missed this with all the white noise. Yes it is. A blank day is not a day off required by FOM. Required off days are noted as so on your roster.

For anyone getting more than minimum rest. 350 and 787 , and guys on more than 6 and 2.

The 321 guys on 6 and 2 or better won't be affected by this.

[Yesse]

Whatever you say. The thing is, would you recommend to any of your friends to work for VNA? Would you encourage any A350 or 787 FO to come to VNA with the hope of being upgraded?? Would you recomend any guy flying for Qatar, Emirates, or any other airline with undefined contract to change for VNA? That's the point!!!!

[Luke SkyToddler]

If you had ever actually worked in the middlle east you wouldn't even have to ask that question

There's one thing that all the ex QR guys here can agree on, leaving that place and coming here was the best thing we ever did :)

[kimono1950]

My posts have been erased !!!!!

[Sunliner81]

Would you encourage any A350 or 787 FO to come to VNA with the hope of being upgraded??

Yesse, for the third f*king time....NO I DO NOT recommend any FOs to come to VN with the hope of being upgraded. I totally agree with you on this one.

However, I will not discourage captains coming here looking for a tree-change, especially from wannabe legacy airlines such as Qatar and Emirates. It’s all the same ****, just a different environment which is what some captains are looking for.

[ia1166]

Yesse, for the third f*king time....NO I DO NOT recommend any FOs to come to VN with the hope of being upgraded. I totally agree with you on this one.

However, I will not discourage captains coming here looking for a tree-change, especially from wannabe legacy airlines such as Qatar and Emirates. It’s all the same ****, just a different environment which is what some captains are looking for.

i have spoken to a number of guys about coming here. The ones that did are still here. As i am.

So how bad can it be?

[wingdeagle]

My posts have been erased !!!!!
Perhaps you should stop your racist insults by calling people “monkeys” and your posts will stay !

[Yesse]

i have spoken to a number of guys about coming here. The ones that did are still here. As i am.

So how bad can it be?

Well, with these arguments, i have not anything else to say. I am happy of not being one of your recommended friends to go there. There are a few guys who were really happy due to clean and kiss some soft parts of the managers... Being upgraded to A350, 787 or they were forgiven when they made some huge mistakes... when they were almost out of the business due to the age. They will be always grateful with VNA. I see many of them here. So yes... now i can understand better your good opinion about that shiitty and corrupt company. Thanks God i am far away from there already, but you will never silent my voice to warn other colleagues to make the biggest mistake in their career joining VNA. Better Jetstar or even Vietjet, but VNA, specially for FO's A350 or 787... better forget about this place. Soon or later you will regret!! That's it, and i am saying the truth, and i will repeat 10000 more times!!

[wingdeagle]

Well, with these arguments, i have not anything else to say. I am happy of not being one of your recommended friends to go there. There are a few guys who were really happy due to clean and kiss some soft parts of the managers... Being upgraded to A350, 787 or they were forgiven when they made some huge mistakes... when they were almost out of the business due to the age. They will be always grateful with VNA. I see many of them here. So yes... now i can understand better your good opinion about that shiitty and corrupt company. Thanks God i am far away from there already, but you will never silent my voice to warn other colleagues to make the biggest mistake in their career joining VNA. Better Jetstar or even Vietjet, but VNA, specially for FO's A350 or 787... better forget about this place. Soon or later you will regret!! That's it, and i am saying the truth, and i will repeat 10000 more times!!

Yesse, nothing personal, but you and Kimono sound like two broken records. Obviously something bad happened to you guys at VNA and you are angry and bitter towards the company and probably with a good reason, I therefore am sorry things did not work out for you. VNA is far from a perfect company. Many people came and ran away, many stayed for over 10 years and more. Every pilot has his/her different needs and expectations; like all companies working for VNA has postive and negative sides, depending on a pilot’s need. I for instance worked there many years and like many of my friends who have come, left or are still there, we never regarded it as mistake. I of course cannot speak for every expat who worked there. While I was there I have seen many people upgrade, transition to other fleets and get promoted to instructors. I can guarantee you that none of these pilots paid their way “up”, even though an exception here and there cannot be ruled out. For those looking to join VNA and are new to the contract world, please see my previous posts; I clearly detailed what it means to be a contract pilot. There are goods and bads. And Yesse, just to set the record straight: VNA does NOT and never had a position of SFO. At least not officially. Some high time FOs might feel like they deserve to be called SFO, but this company unlike many others does not have a positionon or title of SFO. You are either FO or Captain. Hope that helps.

[wingdeagle]

Here is copy of my older post. Sorry if I may sounds like broken record like Yesse and Kimono :-) :

For those new to the contract world or living on Planet Delusional like Kimono:
- you are on loan by an agency. You are NOT working for THE airline.
- as a contractor you may be lucky to upgrade or change fleets as it has happened at VNA in the past, but you cannot expect it.
- you are looking for same treatment as the loclas: stay in your coutry and be a part of the locals.
- the length of your contract is worthless. The contract can be terminated from BOTH sides within a written time frame. This also gives you as pilot a way out, incase you are not happy where you are.
- you are being paid to fly an airplane from A to B and not to get involved in company planning and politics. This is THEIR company, your company is your agent.
- in most cases your contract will be honored and you will get paid on time for the services you provide. This is it.

Like many airlines, VNA is facing massive challenges. I was there many years.
Pros: Locals are mostly very nice, friendly and welcoming. They are a pleasure to work with. Pay is on time. Plenty new birds to fly and Vietnam is simply awsome and offers a very laid back life style. Despite the crazy traffic.
Cons: Substandard contract. No pay raise in almost 10 years, while inflation is through the roof. If you bring your family, you will be paycheck to paycheck. Overcrowded ATC environment and diminishing standards on flight deck, making the operation very challenging and extremely stressful.

Hope this is good info for those looking for detailed info without emotions involved.

[Sunliner81]

Yesse, I wonder what in the hell happened to to you at VNA to cause you so much bitterness. You say you were there 15 years....it’s sad to see such bitterness considering you spent a large slice of your life’s journey there. Kind of like a marriage I guess - it didn’t work out for you and there are always two sides to the story. Good luck wherever you are.

[volare_737]

Just a quick question. Is it a fact that when one starts you have to start on a 6/2 or 6/3 and after a year you can apply for a different pattern. Or is it just because I mist the beginning of the year ???
Thanks

[Luke SkyToddler]

You can "apply" for a different pattern once a year, but it's up to them whether they'll approve it. At the moment and for the foreseeable future, it's highly unlikely they'll approve anything that involves a reduction in working hours. If you want to increase your hours, that'll definitely be approved ...

[Yesse]

Yesse, I wonder what in the hell happened to to you at VNA to cause you so much bitterness. You say you were there 15 years....it’s sad to see such bitterness considering you spent a large slice of your life’s journey there. Kind of like a marriage I guess - it didn’t work out for you and there are always two sides to the story. Good luck wherever you are.
yes, i was 15 years ago, but then was not like today. If we talk about VNA 15 years ago, i would think 100% different. I left VNA because i lost my trust on them, after seeing many of my friends being fired just for some corruput people on the top of the company. I am not so young like to give them my last years of flying without knowing if they would do the same with me tomorrow. And be sure about something, if they find the way to fill their pockets firing you some day, they will do it!! If you are young captain, maybe you don't care too much, but when you are over 55, then the story is different. You need to find the place where, at least, you know they will not let you with the ass in the air, because they will not care at all if they destroy you career and part of your life, as long as they could continue stealing money. That's why i left, i saw their plans, and i didn't wait to give them the chance to f...ck me like they did with many other guys one year ago. Clear now?

[Sunliner81]

That's why i left, i saw their plans, and i didn't wait to give them the chance to f...ck me like they did with many other guys one year ago. Clear now?

Very clear. Nothing actually happened to you, you just chose to leave as a pre-caution :ok:

Contract flying in Asia 101 - you are always a guest in their country, and when you are surplus to requirements, your ride on ‘their’ wave is over. For FOs this wave is always going to be shorter than the wave for captains. They were lucky to even have one at all, as local FOs can be pumped out of the flying school like a suasage factory. Most took the salary, the experienced gained and moved on. They all signed contracts with 60 day clauses and had their contracts terminated legally. So stop going on about them being ‘fired’, it’s getting old. They were surplus to requirements, for whatever reason.

[Yesse]

Very clear. Nothing actually happened to you, you just chose to leave as a pre-caution :ok:

Contract flying in Asia 101 - you are always a guest in their country, and when you are surplus to requirements, your ride on ‘their’ wave is over. For FOs this wave is always going to be shorter than the wave for captains. They were lucky to even have one at all, as local FOs can be pumped out of the flying school like a suasage factory. Most took the salary, the experienced gained and moved on. They all signed contracts with 60 day clauses and had their contracts terminated legally. So stop going on about them being ‘fired’, it’s getting old. They were surplus to requirements, for whatever reason.
Yes, the 60 days clause is there, but listening the agencies, those 60 days notice would be never applied, only if there are some exceptional reasons. Nobody expected that they would apply this clause for those SFO's for a corrupt reason instead, in the middle of the contract. The agencies promised the 5 years of contract, which is a huge lie, same as they are promising now the chance of being upgraded to Captain. But now is worse, because before they fired the A320 SFO's, now they are calling for A350 FO's. As A320 FO maybe you have some chances, but as A350 FO, if they apply this clause again for them, tell me where will they find another job within 60 days... This is what i am saying. All those FO's thinking about VNA, please, forget about it!! You will not finish the contract, and you will be not upgraded. Knowing this as a fact, I don't know who will be the brave one coming to VNA as FO. That's it!!

[Sunliner81]

So shouldn’t your resentment be directed at the agencies rather than the airline?

[Yesse]

So shouldn’t your resentment be directed at the agencies rather than the airline?
the agencies are the intermediary. They both are to blame here, but the airline is who fire the people, well, better say, this airline is a kind of family business, the people on top are all of them related to someone else with power. They have no idea about the job, they are just there to study how to steal more money from inside, from the people. What happened is just an example of this. The airline is a disaster in general, just need to go to the office to realize about this. With that people in charge, is normal that if they find the way to earn some extra money ( i am talking about a few people on top ) cheating people, they will do it. 60 days notice and good bye. The agencies are just the bitc... hes of the airline. They will never fight for you. Just give you all the chances they have for you in other airlines, so they can still sucking your money. But the main problem is the airline. The agencies are to blame here only because they don't say the truth about VNA.

[Stayabovetheglide]

Hi Folks,

a friend of mine contacted me and told me today VNA will charge him for a simulator. He canceled the screening and now should pay 2500 $ for what.....
All the cost must be payed by the applicant, Airport Tax, Hotel accomondation and so on.....of course you get some back after you signed the contract.....he just thinking about to
fly to VNA, do the screening and flies back home.

Could somebody give advises and hints....i told him to call unfit to fly and send a sickness certificate that stated he is not allowed to make a step into a plane....and fly 12 hours...

Have somebody same issue with VNA and the agencies

Thanks guys....

[CM1A320]

I don't know if I would survive the chain smoking that goes on in the cockpits of vietnam airlines, much less on long haul flights, imagine 4 pilots smoking at the same time, you can smell it from business class from pushback to landing. they will never get FAA approval.

[atpcliff]

Whatever you say. The thing is, would you recommend to any of your friends to work for VNA? Would you encourage any A350 or 787 FO to come to VNA with the hope of being upgraded?? Would you recomend any guy flying for Qatar, Emirates, or any other airline with undefined contract to change for VNA? That's the point!!!!
I know an EK 777 captain who went DEC with Vietnam Airlines, and lived there full time. Last I heard he was happy with the decision. He was thinking about returning to his home country, but went to Vietnam because he wanted DEC, and he wanted a Viet wife/GF.

[pezetaroi]

Hi Folks,

a friend of mine contacted me and told me today VNA will charge him for a simulator. He canceled the screening and now should pay 2500 $ for what.....
All the cost must be payed by the applicant, Airport Tax, Hotel accomondation and so on.....of course you get some back after you signed the contract.....he just thinking about to
fly to VNA, do the screening and flies back home.

Could somebody give advises and hints....i told him to call unfit to fly and send a sickness certificate that stated he is not allowed to make a step into a plane....and fly 12 hours...

Have somebody same issue with VNA and the agencies

Thanks guys....

He signed a concent letter with his agency, it’s all in there... If he does attend the screening and is successful, he will also have to pay the penalty if he doesn’t sign within three months. No surprises here, it’s all stated by the agencies or at least the one I applied with...

[Aviator7777]

Fancy low pay, mels galore, asshole connected FOs low job security with no back up from your management, welcome yo join VNA!!!
Dear BAe 146-100,
Mistake or not I have commited myself to work for Vietjet or Jetstar, with upcoming simulator assesments for both of them, but have to make a choice.
According to what I hear, I cannot really get a clear picture for who is best. Can you please provide more information?

[avoka]

Hi guys
Has Anybody attended skype interview for VNA recently ?
I know about disadvantages&advantages for VNA but I’m interested in only type of the questions during interview
Thanks and safe flights

[A321drvr]

Hiya,

In case of Vietnam Airlines which agency is the best? I got an invitation to submit by Rishworth, FCI, CAE and the rest of the lot.

Cheerio,

Drvr

[Yesse]

Unveliable, last advise i saw from Rishworth, calling FO's to join the A350 fleet with FAKE upgrade announcement, fastrack... Come on, the guys who survived the SFO firing process 2 years ago have been working for the company for more than 5 years, and still waiting for the upgrade. I can't believe how these agencies lie to people.

[Yesse]

Hiya,

In case of Vietnam Airlines which agency is the best? I got an invitation to submit by Rishworth, FCI, CAE and the rest of the lot.

Cheerio,

Drvr

If you are brave enough to join VNA after all the risks you will have there, i recommend you to choose Parc. All others sucks, specially Rishworth which is the "bit....ch" of the company.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

I had very bad experience with PARC but good with Rishworth during my time in Vietnam! Actually I have started hearing a lot of bad things about PARC lately! They are treating their pilots like they are their property! Also, Rishworth and FCI have better medical insurance then PARC. Cashless and includes dentist!







If you are brave enough to join VNA after all the risks you will have there, i recommend you to choose Parc. All others sucks, specially Rishworth which is the "bit....ch" of the company.

[A321drvr]

Thanks for the replies. Managed to talk with a few people since and I am under the impression that Rishworth or FCI are the way to go and that I should avoid Parc at all costs.

[4runner]

He signed a concent letter with his agency, it’s all in there... If he does attend the screening and is successful, he will also have to pay the penalty if he doesn’t sign within three months. No surprises here, it’s all stated by the agencies or at least the one I applied with...

unbelievable. You literally can’t make this stuff up. No surprises? That’s not a surprise, that’s Slavery. Even the Middle East airlines don’t pull these stunts. If you go to their interview and don’t join, you’re in debt???

[Count von Altibar]

Which agencies are the biggest players in VNA? I'm guessing it's Rishworth, Parc then FCI or maybe direct personnel? Parc and Rishworth appear to have personnel on the ground at least.

[Cool banana]

If you get the opportunity of agency, you will find FCI (USA) would be the better of any other agency available for VNA. local and contactable agency representatives,unlike Richworth and Parc that seem to go missing in action when issues arrive and it many times it might be days or weeks before you might get an response if you are lucky. Avoid Richworth.

[DonVitto]

OTOH, FCI will withhold 20% of your salary for the first 6 months, they’ll give it back once you finish the five year contract, if you don’t do the entire contract they will prorate and keep a percentage of the money, this on top of the penalties already in the contract for early termination, Parc and Rishworth don’t do this, this is something important to keep in mind, FCI knows that many people don’t make it to the end of the contract and they’re making extra money off of that.

[Yesse]

I had very bad experience with PARC but good with Rishworth during my time in Vietnam! Actually I have started hearing a lot of bad things about PARC lately! They are treating their pilots like they are their property! Also, Rishworth and FCI have better medical insurance then PARC. Cashless and includes dentist!







Well, i left the company 2 years ago, when they start firing SFO's and asked to the Captains to reduce the roster pattern to 4x4. Then i lost my trust in the company and their unfair strategies to get rid of expats. I know today they regret, even they asked me many times to come back, but no way...
The point is that Parc was the only one agency trying to do something for pilots, Rishworth was just keeping silent until the last minute, when all agencies knew about the situation, and then they just sent the mails with 60 days notice to many of my SFO friends, of course, including all other offers they had in Asia to continue sucking their blood. They didn't try to fight or ask any explanation to the company, they just do what VNA says... U have no back up from Rishworth if u need them some day.
Yes, the medical insurance is one of the best, but other agencies have also medical insurance, so i think is not a big deal. All you would need to do with VNA if u come with rishworth should be paying first, so if you have some problem, for example, with some kind of transition to another fleet, they will take the money from the bond you have to pay in advance, then they could fire you. In Parc, you don't pay anything in advance, which is a good way to keep u flying until you find another place to go. I don't know, this is my personal opinion. I would choose any other agency, but never ever Rishworth.

[wingdeagle]

Well, i left the company 2 years ago, when they start firing SFO's and asked to the Captains to reduce the roster pattern to 4x4. Then i lost my trust in the company and their unfair strategies to get rid of expats. I know today they regret, even they asked me many times to come back, but no way...
The point is that Parc was the only one agency trying to do something for pilots, Rishworth was just keeping silent until the last minute, when all agencies knew about the situation, and then they just sent the mails with 60 days notice to many of my SFO friends, of course, including all other offers they had in Asia to continue sucking their blood. They didn't try to fight or ask any explanation to the company, they just do what VNA says... U have no back up from Rishworth if u need them some day.
Yes, the medical insurance is one of the best, but other agencies have also medical insurance, so i think is not a big deal. All you would need to do with VNA if u come with rishworth should be paying first, so if you have some problem, for example, with some kind of transition to another fleet, they will take the money from the bond you have to pay in advance, then they could fire you. In Parc, you don't pay anything in advance, which is a good way to keep u flying until you find another place to go. I don't know, this is my personal opinion. I would choose any other agency, but never ever Rishworth.






Yesse, despite that you keep sounding like a broken record every time someone has a question about VNA, do you mind explaining what you mean by “SFO” ? It’s a term you keep bringing up. Do you mean “San Francisco” or “Second Officer” or what ? Thank you.

[Yesse]

Yesse, despite that you keep sounding like a broken record every time someone has a question about VNA, do you mind explaining what you mean by “SFO” ? It’s a term you keep bringing up. Do you mean “San Francisco” or “Second Officer” or what ? Thank you.

Ok, first, tell me if i said something unreal in any of my comments, if so, then i will demonstrate "again", i have no problem, really. And yes, somehow my heart was broken after 15 years flying in VN, when i see how everything changed, but much more, because i saw how they play with the people lives just by dirty money. What they did 2 years ago, shows up what they are. 15 years ago they were waiting for you with the open arms, today, they look at you like something they want to kick out as soon as they can. Today they are suffering a bit the consequences, the local guys are running away to Bamboo, those guys who were trained and defended by the company for free when they were nothing, their whole life as pilots, are running away, and Bamboo is paying the penalty for them. So the company tries to fulfill VNA always with local pilots, and local pilots are always backbiting the company as soon as they have the chance. The company hates expats, only they shows you that they are happy to have you there if they really really need you, same as now, but is just a matter of time, that they will do again what they did 2 years ago. When? I don't know, but the plan of the company is there, get rid of expats as soon as they can. The only one good thing, is that the local guys moves where they receive more money, because is the only one thing they care. Its obvious, the local guys just uses VNA for the experience, because they have everything for free, training, Type ratings, even initial pilot license if someone had good contacts, then when they have theTR, they fly the A321 as cadet... And after 2000 hours, upgraded to Captain. So easy, same as they like, everything done. That's why they have lower salary, and the reason of because they have to pay the penalty if they want to leave, because in fact, all they have belongs to VNA. The company is always trying to find the way to pay less. They can't reduce the salary of expat ( they would love to ) because if so, everybody will leave. To have an idea, there are people with contract with VNA who are 6 years old... There are many like this, i saw with my own eyes. This is because someone puts their children also in some position, just to suck more money. So, they need you to fly like crazy, doing the dirty job that local pilots they don't want to do, to feed all these mouths who are eating for free.
This is not a broken heart talking, this is an angry person who saw the corruption and dirty play from VNA, so i try to warn all new pilots trying to join the company. If you ask me 15 years ago, i would tell you a very different story, but today, this is the reality. Maybe you had a touch of grace from VNA and now you are lovely and so grateful with them, so now you want to please and kiss them back ( i will not say here the real name of this ) so i guess you heart is not broken yet. Anyway, there will be always people like you everywhere. Last month 2 more of my friends left the company. They didn't like what they see, after just a few months flying with them... I told them, but they wanted to try, and then they told me, i should have listen your words. So, again, i was broken heart, as you said

And to finish, can't believe your question, really. I am surprised about how ignorant is the people sometimes. Anyway, to acculturate yourself a bit more, as everybody knows SFO means Senior First Officer. You sound suspiciously as a local!! But anyway, Good luck and congrats, you learned one more thing today. You are welcome!!!

[wingdeagle]

Ok, first, tell me if i said something unreal in any of my comments, if so, then i will demonstrate "again", i have no problem, really. And yes, somehow my heart was broken after 15 years flying in VN, when i see how everything changed, but much more, because i saw how they play with the people lives just by dirty money. What they did 2 years ago, shows up what they are. 15 years ago they were waiting for you with the open arms, today, they look at you like something they want to kick out as soon as they can. Today they are suffering a bit the consequences, the local guys are running away to Bamboo, those guys who were trained and defended by the company for free when they were nothing, their whole life as pilots, are running away, and Bamboo is paying the penalty for them. So the company tries to fulfill VNA always with local pilots, and local pilots are always backbiting the company as soon as they have the chance. The company hates expats, only they shows you that they are happy to have you there if they really really need you, same as now, but is just a matter of time, that they will do again what they did 2 years ago. When? I don't know, but the plan of the company is there, get rid of expats as soon as they can. The only one good thing, is that the local guys moves where they receive more money, because is the only one thing they care. Its obvious, the local guys just uses VNA for the experience, because they have everything for free, training, Type ratings, even initial pilot license if someone had good contacts, then when they have theTR, they fly the A321 as cadet... And after 2000 hours, upgraded to Captain. So easy, same as they like, everything done. That's why they have lower salary, and the reason of because they have to pay the penalty if they want to leave, because in fact, all they have belongs to VNA. The company is always trying to find the way to pay less. They can't reduce the salary of expat ( they would love to ) because if so, everybody will leave. To have an idea, there are people with contract with VNA who are 6 years old... There are many like this, i saw with my own eyes. This is because someone puts their children also in some position, just to suck more money. So, they need you to fly like crazy, doing the dirty job that local pilots they don't want to do, to feed all these mouths who are eating for free.
This is not a broken heart talking, this is an angry person who saw the corruption and dirty play from VNA, so i try to warn all new pilots trying to join the company. If you ask me 15 years ago, i would tell you a very different story, but today, this is the reality. Maybe you had a touch of grace from VNA and now you are lovely and so grateful with them, so now you want to please and kiss them back ( i will not say here the real name of this ) so i guess you heart is not broken yet. Anyway, there will be always people like you everywhere. Last month 2 more of my friends left the company. They didn't like what they see, after just a few months flying with them... I told them, but they wanted to try, and then they told me, i should have listen your words. So, again, i was broken heart, as you said

And to finish, can't believe your question, really. I am surprised about how ignorant is the people sometimes. Anyway, to acculturate yourself a bit more, as everybody knows SFO means Senior First Officer. You sound suspiciously as a local!! But anyway, Good luck and congrats, you learned one more thing today. You are welcome!!!


Yesse, a couple of facts:
I am not a local (with all the deep respect towards locals, my English grammar is a bit better than locals’).
I am not with VNA anymore, but spent almost ten years there.
Unlike you, I signed a contract which clearly defined my tasks: fly an airplane from point A to point B, get paid and go home.
My contract did not include the right to stick my nose into company politics and look for it’s faults.
YOU Sir clearly never understood what the flying contract world is about, this is why you are now angry, bitter and broken hearted. Yet Sir you have a huge ego: SENIOR FIRST OFFICERS ? Were you flying at Lufthansa, Cathay or Emirates ? Because they do have this title. VNA never had and does not have a SFO position, so quit making up stuff. Some FO’s are more experienced than others, but so are Captains. So what’s next: senior Captain �� ? I am truly sorry you signed a marriage contract with VNA, expecting love and affection which ended up in divorce. I signed a simple contract which gave both parties the possibility to quit with a timely notice.
P.S. I do agree that things there have changed (for the worst). If I would warn someone from going there it would be the dramatic decline in cockpit standards and basic flying skills !
Have a nice day.

[Yesse]

Yesse, a couple of facts:
I am not a local (with all the deep respect towards locals, my English grammar is a bit better than locals’).
I am not with VNA anymore, but spent almost ten years there.
Unlike you, I signed a contract which clearly defined my tasks: fly an airplane from point A to point B, get paid and go home.
My contract did not include the right to stick my nose into company politics and look for it’s faults.
YOU Sir clearly never understood what the flying contract world is about, this is why you are now angry, bitter and broken hearted. Yet Sir you have a huge ego: SENIOR FIRST OFFICERS ? Were you flying at Lufthansa, Cathay or Emirates ? Because they do have this title. VNA never had and does not have a SFO position, so quit making up stuff. Some FO’s are more experienced than others, but so are Captains. So what’s next: senior Captain �� ? I am truly sorry you signed a marriage contract with VNA, expecting love and affection which ended up in divorce. I signed a simple contract which gave both parties the possibility to quit with a timely notice.
P.S. I do agree that things there have changed (for the worst). If I would warn someone from going there it would be the dramatic decline in cockpit standards and basic flying skills !
Have a nice day.

Feeling amazing after your answer, thanks. Same as i thought. Anyway, at least in my case, when i work for an airline, i don't fly as a mercenary. My duty now is to advise all other pilots what they will have if they join an airline like this. Specially SFO's ( Senior First Officer, in General, a First Officer with more than 4000 hours flight time. No need to be in Lufthansa. You are welcome ) Because they are looking for them to fly 787 and A350, under the promise of a fake fastrack upgrade opportunity. You go to VNA as VNA as FO, 99% you will leave VNA as FO. This is the real thing. As i said in a comment before, the SFO's who survived to the firing process 2 years ago, still waiting for their upgrade, most of them on A350. So, you will go to the end of the list, and considering that these guys are now the last option for the company for being upgraded ( only if they really really need, same as always happened ) so you could imagine when would arrive the upgrade chance for the new A350 FO's... As i said before, 99% NEVER. And this is my warning and my duty with other colleagues. If the reality sounds bitter for you, am sorry, but i will not sweet your ear talking about VNA, honey... Have a nice day too!!

[wingdeagle]

You do not fly as mercenary ? According to you, you were in VNA 15 years so I guess you did just that. 4000 hours for SFO ? What is your reference, ICAO manuals or are you pulling this info out of your nose ? In my time at VNA countless expats came as FOs who are now Captains, TRIs, TREs and fly wide bodies. You want a career though ? Stay away from contract world and go work for an airline directly.

[ia1166]

Feeling amazing after your answer, thanks. Same as i thought. Anyway, at least in my case, when i work for an airline, i don't fly as a mercenary. My duty now is to advise all other pilots what they will have if they join an airline like this. Specially SFO's ( Senior First Officer, in General, a First Officer with more than 4000 hours flight time. No need to be in Lufthansa. You are welcome ) Because they are looking for them to fly 787 and A350, under the promise of a fake fastrack upgrade opportunity. You go to VNA as VNA as FO, 99% you will leave VNA as FO. This is the real thing. As i said in a comment before, the SFO's who survived to the firing process 2 years ago, still waiting for their upgrade, most of them on A350. So, you will go to the end of the list, and considering that these guys are now the last option for the company for being upgraded ( only if they really really need, same as always happened ) so you could imagine when would arrive the upgrade chance for the new A350 FO's... As i said before, 99% NEVER. And this is my warning and my duty with other colleagues. If the reality sounds bitter for you, am sorry, but i will not sweet your ear talking about VNA, honey... Have a nice day too!!

Personally I am quite happy here seeing it out till my retirement. I fulfill my part of the contract and VN has always abided by their part. I follow my roster. Follow the SOP and FOM closely. Do what I am told and don't create problems

Money flows to me, and loyalty flows back. All as it should be. All in equilibrium.

To be honest Yesse, Vietjet must be treating you well. Why get so wound up?

[ia1166]

Yesse,

I know who you are. And I know why you left.

Please stop attacking the airline that provided you with the qualification you now use at a competing airline. Its childish

[wingdeagle]

Yesse,

I know who you are. And I know why you left.

Please stop attacking the airline that provided you with the qualification you now use at a competing airline. Its childish

Ia1166, AMEN to what you wrote 🙏🏼.

[ia1166]

Ia1166, AMEN to what you wrote 🙏🏼.

Its fake news to divert recruitment to his airline. I can tell more if required

[King on a Wing]

Gentlemen.
Could someone be kind enough to post :
1. What are the commuting patterns available.
2. Approx t & c’s for each pattern.
787 skipper.
Cheers

[ia1166]

you'll need to speak to the contract company as they are all slightly different.

Medical insurance, actual date of payment, bonds, etc etc

Doubt better than 6 and 2 is available right now

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Is it possible to change agency if you are not happy with the one you have?

[DonVitto]

Is it possible to change agency if you are not happy with the one you have?

it depends, once you’re hired it’s not possible, you’d have to resign with your current agency as you’re working for them and are on “loan” to Vietnam Airlines, now, before being hired it’s possible, all you have to do is ask your agency to release ypur application.

hope this helps.

[CM1A320]

For how many years has vna been offering the same salary?
i dont understand why they are so careless on spending in the wrong things like catering waste, fuel wasted on improper flight planning and apu usage, and dozens of other easy to see wasted resources.

[Roti Canai]

just got emailed this by F6i

New Benefits Include the following:

MyIDTravel Benefits: Vietnam Airlines is now extending ZED tickets/ID90/ID75 travel benefits to pilots and their family members on Sky Team Alliance airlines! This is huge and will make your commute home on days off much cheaper and easier!!


Signing Bonus: Guaranteed $2,000 signing bonus to ALL pilots!


Cash Bonus: The CEO of Vietnam Airlines has granted another CASH BONUS to expat pilots. This is now the fifth cash bonus in the last 12 months for expat pilots totaling: USD $1,930.98


Fly Overtime (your choice): if you would like to fly during your days off you now have the option to do so! Make an additional USD $120 hourly if you work during your OFF Days


Annual Bonus: This cash bonus is an addition to the $2,430 bonus pilots receive annually – which grows to $8,100/annually


Wide- Body Upgrade: VNA is now quickly upgrading A320 Captains to the A350 and B787 fleet as VNA now has a huge shortage on both wide- body aircrafts – pilots can register their interest for an upgrade after only 6 months!


Easy Screening Process: Now you can do the interview via Skype and once you pass, you can travel to Vietnam for the simulator check. Enjoy HIGH passing rates! We will fully prepare you! Immediate start dates are available!


Flexible Commuting Roster – we know every pilot doesn’t have the same schedule which is why YOU choose which roster works best for you! Change your roster up to two times a year


Choice of Base- Pilots can choose from the following bases: Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, or Cam Ranh

=centerVietnam Airlines
Roster Pattern

(USD)
A320 Captain Monthly SalaryA320 TRE

Monthly Salary
A320 TRI

Monthly Salary
A320 LTC

Monthly Salary
4 weeks on / 2 weeks off
$9,466.00
$12,558.67
$10,445.56
$10,175.56
3 weeks on / 1 week off
$10,800.00
$14,286.00
$11,900.00
$11,600.00
6 weeks on / 3 weeks off
$9,466.00
$12,558.67
$10,445.56
$10,175.56
9 weeks on / 3 weeks off
$10,800.00
$14,286.00
$11,900.00
$11,600.00
6 weeks on / 2 weeks off
$10,800.00
$14,286.00
$11,900.00
$11,600.00
8 weeks on / 2 weeks off
$11,600.00
$15,322.40
$12,772.67
$12,454.67
10 weeks on / 2 weeks off
$12,133.00
$16,013.33
$13,354.44
$13,024.44
Additional Highlights below:

Commuting Contract: 3x1, 4x2, 6x2, 6x3, 8x2, 9x3,10x2


Salary Average USD $9,466- $16,013 (NET) + Overtime


Long Term Contract Renewable Contract


Choice of base – Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Cam Ranh


Loss of Income Insurance provided at no cost


Accepting Captain, LTC, TRI, and TRE


Immediate start dates available – we can Fast-Track your application!


Discounts at International Schools in Vietnam – up to 65% off!


Guaranteed travel on Vietnam Airlines network


Life Insurance with Death Benefits


Fast Process! Start Flying in no time!


Opportunity to upgrade to Wide Body (A350/B787) or Instructor


World Class Medical Insurance across the globe including your Home Country, USA & Canada FREE for kids see attached more detail

[ikon757]

salary has remained the same from 2016..no hike but just a various permutations and combinations in roster patterns

[fingerstyle]

OK guys,I know you may be interested in this Vietnam wonderland. As a 320 skipper for 3 years in VNA,I will share with you some info from inside.
1.STAY AWAY, if you are a 320 skipper.

2.DO NOT believe in 16xxx USD/month salary,it is BS. For a normal line captain,your salary (including everything such as renting allowance)begins at 10500 USD/month,thats it. This number has been fixed for more 7 years WITHOUT ANY increase. After you join,then every year you can expect a 1~2% increase in salary. Only 1~2% increase per year,BIG DEAL.

3.BS schedule,especially for expat. Yes,they do have LO in Japan/Korea,but that is mainly for local guys. As an expat,99% of your duty will be turn around flights. For an local,he flies 1 sector to JAPAN/KOREA,easy 5 hours in his logbook,and then he goes to hotel for 24 hours LO,and next day easy 5 hours in his logbook again for flying back to VN. And for you as an expat,you will be flying BS 4 domestic sectors in one day,duty time > 10 hours,tired as a dog,and then you only get 4~5 hours in your logbook. You get the same BS schedule again next day. You CAN expect LO over China airspace,for example,departure in midnight from VN,flying turn around flights to China,with duty time 10~12 hours,tired as a dog again.

4.BS quick upgrade to A350/787,DO NOT believe in this. First of all,you need to PAY for your training,its around 30000 USD for 320->350. And remember,“YOU PAY FOR THE TRAINING BUT THEY CAN FAIL YOU.”
DO NOT think you are paying so you are the boss,BIG NO. I know people got failed during 320->350 after paying for it.

5.DO NOT believe in 19xx USD bonus over the last 12 months. YES,i do get some bonus over the last 12 months,and each time the bonus is around 50~100 USD,so the total is more like 200~300 USD. 19xx USD my ASS.

6.Fly on you vacation for 120 USD/hour. You see why? Because so many expat are running away from this VN wonderland,so they want you to fly even on you vacation. 120 USD/hour,BIG DEAL! If you want money,why not go to China?

7.DO NOT believe in 8100 USD annual bonus,at least I have no idea where is mine,for 3 years in VNA.

8.DO BELIEVE in Easy Screening Process and HIGH passing rates. You should know the reason by now.

9.For 787/350 on type guys, its totally different. You are very welcome to join this VN wonderland.

10.STAY AWAY, if you are a 320 skipper.

[CM1A320]

the frustating element of vna is that nobody in management gives a ****, they are just milking the corruption cow.

that means that no improvements will ever be seen unless someone up there is making money from it.

they want to be a 5 star airline and are buying the cheapest interiors on all the planes, the cabin crew and ground staff take all the food and alcohol home.

and entires bussiness class smelling of cigarretes smoke from the cockpit and crew bunk beds.

local cabin crew and pilots have to pay management under the table money to get hired,

so the is no merit at all to work for them, no incentive to work and study to excel and be someone in the system,

its all about who do you know and how much money you have.

there are millions in waste, from improper fuel policies and procedures and poor pilot training and decision making.

etc etc etc. communism at work i guess.

[global gipsy]

I am working in Vietnam as well and I can confirm the last 2 posts are pretty accurate. The way they do business here will not change in the short-term because that's their culture at the moment. Nobody cares, not in VNA, not in VJ, not in Jetstar and not in Bamboo. Companies are milking cows for the management, either through cadet programs, captain upgrades, fleet transfers or instructor upgrades. But I think in the last few years they really went into overdrive. If someone doesn't need money and really wants to come to Vietnam then I guess 4/2 schedule in VNA is the best option, provided you don't need money and you don't care about anything else.
Airline business is no different than any other business in Vietnam, you pay - you can do. You do not pay - can not, can not.

[Sandysin]

I have completed VNA's skype interview and have been invited for a 30 minutes written test & sim evaluation in HCMC. Can any of my friends let me know what all is asked in written test as well as how is the sim evaluation done.
Thanks in advance.
Sandy

[PoyCNC]

I have completed VNA's skype interview and have been invited for a 30 minutes written test & sim evaluation in HCMC. Can any of my friends let me know what all is asked in written test as well as how is the sim evaluation done.
Thanks in advance.
Sandy


Written test is multiple choice. Your agency should give you what questions to expect. Few were taken from the smartcockpit website. Sim few years back was take off, a failure that makes you lose FMS navigation and land in direct law. Takeoff and land in VVTS. Good luck!

[BAMBOOzled]

Just curious, when, if ever, does VNA plan to start routes to the US since it has achieved cat 1 status.

[Check2]

Hi Everyone

Would anyone know about the 20 Questions Monkey survey, candidates are asked to complete by Viet Jet?.

regards

[CM1A320]

VNA is a state owned white elefant used by the short term management to get rich, there is no vision no merit no pride. airplanes are dirty, staff takes the entire galley home, including alcohol cutlery and food.

Cabin crew and pilots have to pay their way in, proficient or not.
Flight to USA not a priority, management pilots and instructors smoke in the cockpit and in the crew bunks.
(Thats why many pilots love vna)
currently no fleet can reach USA without a polar route.

the influx of indian jet airways pilots stopped the salary increase that was expected.

Interview is a walk in the park, they are just checking that you can get along with the local culture.

brokers are saying that there are skyteam tickets, its not true, its only way is with china airlines from los Angeles to taipei.
thats it. There are no improved conditions, if anything people are working longer days for the same 10.8 of eternity, plus some pop corn every quarter.

its all about the pockets of management and brokers interact with those pockets.

the only incentive is flying happy passengers who are oblivious to the inner workings...

[BlackandWhite2000]

VNA is a state owned white elefant used by the short term management to get rich, there is no vision no merit no pride. airplanes are dirty, staff takes the entire galley home, including alcohol cutlery and food.

All the statements from CM1A320 are confirmed.

If you can not fly without smoking in the cockpit, join VNA now! You are free to smoke in the cockpit the moment you enter it.

[ia1166]

All the statements from CM1A320 are confirmed.

If you can not fly without smoking in the cockpit, join VNA now! You are free to smoke in the cockpit the moment you enter it.



nobody smokes in my cockpit. Not now, not ever.

Havent seen any jet airways pilots. Indigo, yes.

i dont do interviews, but anyone suffering line training by my hands does not get an easy ride. Or line checks for that matter.

Maybe try to just be a good line pilot. As per your contract. Cant see anywhere on my contract that critiquing the management is required, or appreciated.

[aspo]

nobody smokes in my cockpit. Not now, not ever.

Havent seen any jet airways pilots. Indigo, yes.

i dont do interviews, but anyone suffering line training by my hands does not get an easy ride. Or line checks for that matter.

Maybe try to just be a good line pilot. As per your contract. Cant see anywhere on my contract that critiquing the management is required, or appreciated.



Just curious, since when is line training supposed to be suffering. Do the trainers there make people suffer and call it being professional?

[wingdeagle]

nobody smokes in my cockpit. Not now, not ever.

Havent seen any jet airways pilots. Indigo, yes.

i dont do interviews, but anyone suffering line training by my hands does not get an easy ride. Or line checks for that matter.

Maybe try to just be a good line pilot. As per your contract. Cant see anywhere on my contract that critiquing the management is required, or appreciated.













ia1166: you alone are not Vietnam Airlines ! You and a few selected instructors are a positive exception, yet no matter how much you teach or fail the local pilots, they will get “retrained” by local instructors as early as next the day and signed off to go flying. It’s a well known fact and It’s a very flawed system.
No one smoked in my cockpit either when I was there, but the fact is that smoking is still going on on select flight decks and this too will never change.

CM1A320: some points are valid yet how this airline works, it’s purpose, how the locals get their jobs, catering etc. I would once again recommend to my fellow expat colleagues: unless it’s an operational, scheduling or pay issue to just mind your own business, go work, do what you are paid to do, go home and enjoy this beautiful country and all the good it has to offer.
Like any other country, Vietnam has it’s own ways and it’s own culture: this may seem odd and hard to understand for a foreigner. But if you are not happy with the way things work for one reason or the other, just leave. There is no sense to be miserable and bad mouth the company which is currently putting bread on your table.
Cheers and be safe out there.

[BAMBOOzled]

ia1166: you alone are not Vietnam Airlines ! You and a few selected instructors are a positive exception, yet no matter how much you teach or fail the local pilots, they will get “retrained” by local instructors as early as next the day and signed off to go flying. It’s a well known fact and It’s a very flawed system.
No one smoked in my cockpit either when I was there, but the fact is that smoking is still going on on select flight decks and this too will never change.

CM1A320: some points are valid yet how this airline works, it’s purpose, how the locals get their jobs, catering etc. I would once again recommend to my fellow expat colleagues: unless it’s an operational, scheduling or pay issue to just mind your own business, go work, do what you are paid to do, go home and enjoy this beautiful country and all the good it has to offer.
Like any other country, Vietnam has it’s own ways and it’s own culture: this may seem odd and hard to understand for a foreigner. But if you are not happy with the way things work for one reason or the other, just leave. There is no sense to be miserable and bad mouth the company which is currently putting bread on your table.
Cheers and be safe out there.

So I take it that galley staff do in fact take stuff home on ALL flights or at least a lot of them unlike smoking which according to some of you only occurs on some flight decks? Any known rumors on your end about US routes?

[BAMBOOzled]

VNA is a state owned white elefant used by the short term management to get rich, there is no vision no merit no pride. airplanes are dirty, staff takes the entire galley home, including alcohol cutlery and food.

Cabin crew and pilots have to pay their way in, proficient or not.
Flight to USA not a priority, management pilots and instructors smoke in the cockpit and in the crew bunks.
(Thats why many pilots love vna)
currently no fleet can reach USA without a polar route.

the influx of indian jet airways pilots stopped the salary increase that was expected.

Interview is a walk in the park, they are just checking that you can get along with the local culture.

brokers are saying that there are skyteam tickets, its not true, its only way is with china airlines from los Angeles to taipei.
thats it. There are no improved conditions, if anything people are working longer days for the same 10.8 of eternity, plus some pop corn every quarter.

its all about the pockets of management and brokers interact with those pockets.

the only incentive is flying happy passengers who are oblivious to the inner workings...



Why is a polar route a limiting factor to get to the US? Many airlines do it daily?

Also, I thought getting FAA approval was a big deal to them. Why bother trying to get CAT 1 if they don't actually care to fly those routes?

And is the airline at least making a profit/stable?

[pearswick]

Hello - I am a journalist with the Reuters news agency looking to speak to Vietnam-based pilots who might be able to talk to us about the current state of air traffic control in the country, as well as any general infrastructure issues which have emerged as the aviation market rapidly expands.

Anyone interested in talking, please use Whatsapp or Signal to contact me on the following number: +84911853004

Any conversation would be completely off the record unless otherwise agreed. You can see some of our recent work via Twitter (@pearswick).

[wingdeagle]

Hello - I am a journalist with the Reuters news agency looking to speak to Vietnam-based pilots who might be able to talk to us about the current state of air traffic control in the country, as well as any general infrastructure issues which have emerged as the aviation market rapidly expands.

Anyone interested in talking, please use Whatsapp or Signal to contact me on the following number: +84911853004 (tel:+84911853004)

Any conversation would be completely off the record unless otherwise agreed. You can see some of our recent work via Twitter (@pearswick).

You AMATEUR ������

[Sandysin]

I got over with the skype interview then written exam and sim in Saigon. Cleared to join VNA as A320 captain with Hanoi
base mentioned by CAE PARC in their mail after sim assesment. Any clue what is next in line before starting flying with Vietnam Airlines?

[Check2]

Hi Sandysin,

care red to share questions , Sim profiles etc?
pm me if you want.
I have an interview comind up soon.

regards

[Sucram]

Can anyone give me an idea what life is like on the 787 in VNA, I see a 4/4 contract is been advertised which would suit me. I dont expect it to be wonderful but would appreciate any honest feedback about the good and bad bits. Thanks

[Sms320]

I got over with the skype interview then written exam and sim in Saigon. Cleared to join VNA as A320 captain with Hanoi
base mentioned by CAE PARC in their mail after sim assesment. Any clue what is next in line before starting flying with Vietnam Airlines?
Hi Sandysin,

can you share questions asked during Skype Interview?
pm me if you can
I have an interview coming up soon.

regards

[Aleks]

Hi!
Could you share Skype interview procedure with me, please?

[Airygen]

the frustating element of vna is that nobody in management gives a ****, they are just milking the corruption cow.

that means that no improvements will ever be seen unless someone up there is making money from it.

they want to be a 5 star airline and are buying the cheapest interiors on all the planes, the cabin crew and ground staff take all the food and alcohol home.

and entires bussiness class smelling of cigarretes smoke from the cockpit and crew bunk beds.

local cabin crew and pilots have to pay management under the table money to get hired,

so the is no merit at all to work for them, no incentive to work and study to excel and be someone in the system,

its all about who do you know and how much money you have.

there are millions in waste, from improper fuel policies and procedures and poor pilot training and decision making.

etc etc etc. communism at work i guess.

I have been with 2 flag carriers in the Asia Pacific region and they are no different than VNA from what had been described concerning corruptions and wastes. It is a product of "state owned" business so no one really gives a Sxxx such that money and favors are used to get ahead in the corrupt system. It probably will take another 10 years or even a few incidents or accident (God forbids) for the airline to clean up like their other "more developed" and a bit less corrupted Asia carriers that already went thru this growing process. It would be smart for the Top Management or Main Share Holders of VNA to read up some of the backgrounds and history of other already developed Asia Carriers and see what they went thru to change under this current mentality..

[Sucram]

Can anyone give me an idea what life is like on the 787 in VNA, I see a 4/4 contract is been advertised which would suit me. I dont expect it to be wonderful but would appreciate any honest feedback about the good and bad bits. Thanks
Anyone with any info please??
Maybe everyone on the 787 is very happy so doesnt come on pprune 😁😁😁

[Check2]

Hi E everyone

can anyone share any i fo on the Sim a320 for Interview plz??
any surprises ?.

regards

[wingdeagle]

Hi E everyone

can anyone share any i fo on the Sim a320 for Interview plz??
any surprises ?.

regards


I hear there will be an English grammar test before the interview to ensure the pilot knows how to properly write in English without using abbreviations of a teenager.

[Check2]

Oh dear....

[4runner]

I hear there will be an English grammar test before the interview to ensure the pilot knows how to properly write in English without using abbreviations of a teenager.


My Man. Filler

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hope they don't introduce that test, we would have no FOs left :}

Check2 the sim is pretty old-school, they love to get it into raw data, alternate law, man thrust, and spend most of the exercise flying around like that. Possibly a visual circuit for warm up. Popular ECAMs are FCU fail, dual MCDU fail, various combinations of flight control computers and radalt failures, whatever gets you hand flying. After that, probably a windshear and TCAS, standard instrument rating renewal stuff, V1 cut and non precision approach

[Check2]

Thank you Luke

thats much appreciate.

regards

[744 NOMAD]

Hi, I am about to apply to VNA B787 Capt. What is the latest on the best agency to use? Parc/(CAE), Rischworth of FCI?

Any information on the Skype interview, Tech Quiz and Sim would be highly appreciated.

Nomad

[Sharklet]

Any B787 FO's that have joined recently? Pls PM.

[King on a Wing]

Gents. May I ask what are the expected terms and conditions for a 787 skipper. I mean salary wise and otherwise. How is the working and staying condition please. And which base would be best.
Thanks in advance.

[PoyCNC]

How's life there during this pandemic? Any hopes of things going back to where they were, or just chalk it up to the good old days? Wishing everybody well during these tough times.

[Yesse]

Remember when i was warning all colleagues about Vietnam Airlines? Well, the pandemic has been the perfect excuse. Many A321 Captains will be fired now. Remember when i said that First Officers shouldn't apply for Vietnam Airlines? Remember when agencies were saying that pilots for A350/787 will have a fast-track to Captain upgrade? Well, now VNA will fire all of them. Many of these guys accepted to stay at home without salary for all this time, now, after almost one year without flying, they will be fired and their career as pilots will end. Nobody will hire a pilot who is not current and who was not flying for all these months. These guys were supporting the company without receiving 1 cent, trusting in this cheating and corrupt company. Now they found out that they could use the few expats they have left to do the dirty job that local pilots they don't want to do, like flying to Europe or other countries, and when they go back to Vietnam, they need to be 14 days under quarantine, and everything for $1500 maximum. Local pilots will just fly to Saigon and some other places where they don't need to do the quarantine. The managers they didn't reduce their salary, and they use the pandemic as an excuse to fire those pilots who were always doing their best for them, destroying their lives and careers. This is Vietnam Airlines. Someday they will need all these pilots, so i hope they could find a better place to fly, at least those who still current somehow. Many airlines fired pilots, i know, but any airline around the world was waiting 1 year until their pilots couldn't find any other place to fly, because they didn't fly for all these months. This is VNA, this is how they care about their workers... A company for friends and people with money to bribe all those managers with the power. I hope many of you heard my words before, spacially FO's, and for sure today you would have more options than if you choosed VNA. Good luck to everybody!!

[Flyingviking2018]

Any idea what’s happening in VN? Apparently no recalls. Where as VJ has recalled, or even hired pilots. Seems a bit odd. There must be quite a few expat VN pilots on unpaid leave still…..

[TruthtellerHan]

Hi,

Vietnam Airlines currently has the poorest working conditions in Vietnam. Most of pilots are currently resigning including Vietnamese and go to Vietjet, Bamboo being on hold now due to substantial financial problems too.
Regarding Vietnam Airlines, the airline seems not to know where to go, due to heavy financial problems, the operations are simply crazy, the procedures change every week creating an important workload both in flight and at home leading to fatigue and unsafety. The salaries are definitely the lowest in the area (CPT Basic salary: 600USD) and you have vacation, you have almost no salary, no sick leave for the same reasons.
AN AIRLINE TO STRICTLY AVOID AT THE MOMENT

[SQ2]

Any idea what’s happening in VN? Apparently no recalls. Where as VJ has recalled, or even hired pilots. Seems a bit odd. There must be quite a few expat VN pilots on unpaid leave still…..

Hi,

Vietnam Airlines currently has the poorest working conditions in Vietnam. Most of pilots are currently resigning including Vietnamese and go to Vietjet, Bamboo being on hold now due to substantial financial problems too.
Regarding Vietnam Airlines, the airline seems not to know where to go, due to heavy financial problems, the operations are simply crazy, the procedures change every week creating an important workload both in flight and at home leading to fatigue and unsafety. The salaries are definitely the lowest in the area (CPT Basic salary: 600USD) and you have vacation, you have almost no salary, no sick leave for the same reasons.
AN AIRLINE TO STRICTLY AVOID AT THE MOMENT
Pretty sad to hear.. was never the top paid job in the area but in my point of view the quality of life was very decent. Hopefully one day things will change again in a positive way for all.

[WSSS]

Hi,

(CPT Basic salary: 600USD) and you have vacation, you have almost no salary, no sick leave for the same reasons.
AN AIRLINE TO STRICTLY AVOID AT THE MOMENT

Do you mean 6000 USD or is it really 600 USD?

[TruthtellerHan]

Do you mean 6000 USD or is it really 600 USD?
You clearly read! A basic salary of 600 USD (Six hundred), then pay per scheduled hour