Vietnam Airlines (info please)

[Dihedral1]

I sent you a PM.
But as a bad as you think BA is, most contractors would would give their left nut, to have the sort of representation BALPA provides
and the package you have, even if somewhat diminished.

[NG708]

Cheers Luke. Could be buying you that beer soon...:p

[never_home]

never_home I could answer all those questions but I'd rather just say "you're a fool". Do NOT leave a senior position in BA for the A321 fleet here.

Ouch! That hurt, but I guess I did ask for it. :E

Seriously, though. Thanks for that, I will certainly bear it in mind. The grass isn't always greener but that also works both ways. We, in BA, have had a substantial number of DEP recruits return to their previous airlines in recent months. Many of the attractions of joining the airline are now vanishing and faced with the prospect of >20 years to command with very little pension provision and paid no better than UK market rate whilst working harder than colleagues in other airlines, many people are looking at their options.

BA are recruiting, funnily enough, if anyone wants to apply. :=

Cheers all.

[Dormant Dog]

Never-home, in that case, of semi-commuting, the UK tax man would still consider you a UK tax resident. Get some very good tax advice first.

[never_home]

Thanks Dormant Dog

That is true, and very good advice. My understanding is that the UK and Vietnam have signed a double taxation agreement whereby taxes paid in Vietnam may be offset against tax arising in the UK.

Do VN pay the Vietnamese taxes on a pilot's behalf as in China? What kind of percentage tax is payable on a pilots salary in Vietnam?

[pilotcpb]

While on the topic of taxes and commuting, does one get an RP in Vietnam? Thanks.

[vivek67]

hi Luke,

that was a very informative write up. You got any idea about the A330 Captain flying and future prospects.

Thanks.
Vivek67

[Luke SkyToddler]

vivek the 330s are supposed to be starting to get retired in 2016 and all gone by 2019 as the 350s arrive. It's much the same time frame for the 777s getting replaced with 787s.

I'd say almost certainly that they will still have a need for widebody captains at that time but, the million dollar question is, what will they do to handle the transfer of expats onto the new generation types. They haven't announced anything yet with regard to contracts & salary on the new types, or the cost of conversion. Based on past performance, it's unlikely to be handed out for free.

So joining on 330 and 777 now is a bit of a punt, it might be a quick way into a next-gen rating in a couple of years, or it could be a total dead end, depends on what the deal is for the new ratings.

Here's some more food for thought :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Saigoneer | Exploring Saigon and Beyond - Hanoi Is The Most Polluted City In SE Asia Says Expert (http://saigoneer.com/saigon-health/2678-hanoi-is-the-most-polluted-city-in-se-asia-says-expert)

[Dihedral1]

Without a king: Vietnam SOE reform needs solidarity - Equity - Deals - News - FinanceAsia.com - The network for financial decision makers (http://www.financeasia.com/News/389537,without-a-king-vietnam-soe-reform-needs-solidarity.aspx)

[frog777]

Hi,


I've seen vacancies for B777 capt with VAC and I'm considering such an experience. Before applying, I'd like to have infos from other expat capt. working with VAC. I've been contacted by placement agencies quite often, but never been a contract pilot. So, if some guys could discuss with me about VAC either on the forum or by private message, I'd be grateful.
Many thanks,


Safe flights and happy landings

[Dihedral1]

Hi, have you read through this thread? Maybe some questions have already been answered, maybe you could be more specific, what do you want to know.
Luke has recently given a good overview and I have chipped in with a few..:cool:

[FFRATS]

PARC and Rishworth are very similar, pay the same, both offer medical and support services and both have good guys here on the ground to help their pilots out.

Not sure about Rishworth but PARC have been next to useless in helping many Vietnam contract pilots I know.

Offer to help sort out problems that could be averted with sound management and guidance before the usual ones arise. Then still come back with it's a company problem after you ask for help. :ugh:

No amount of free 60c beers washes away the bad taste of them getting your money for little or no effort after you sign a contract.

As mentioned, no real increase in contract amount in how many years?

FFRATS

[pandazoo]

On the subject of UK tax. It looks like it can but complicated but a question for the guys out there.......is the following correct?

It looks as if tax is paid at source and the agency payment is takehome pay. As long as you are spending less than 183 days in the uk in any one tax year or collectively less than 91 days a year in any four consecutive tax years then you are not liable for payment of uk tax.

This is on basic working pay and does not include any other liabilities, property's, dependents etc. thanks.

[Border Reiver]

No, UK tax is far more complicated than that sadly. The guidence notes are available on line and warrent close study. Depending on your ties, family availability of accommodation etc, you might be left with far less than 90 days. It is also now not an average.

On the positive side it is all now laid down on line.

[pandazoo]

Ok thanks, I've had a quick look at the SRT and the Double Taxation agreement for the commuting contract, I'll dig a bit deeper.

If you have any links to more guidance notes that can help that would be appreciated. Thanks

[Just an other number]

Back to Never Home's question on 6 September; I don't know what VN pilots are paid but I can give you the tax caculation for 100,000,000 Vietnam Dong per month, approx USD 4,717 per month, USD 56,600 per annum.
The overall rate of tax is 22% on this level of salary and the marginal rate is 35%. Vietnam operates Pay As You Earn with tax deducted from monthly pay.


Monthly Tax Calculation in Vietnam Dong and USD
Gross pay 100,000,000 $4,717
Less tax relief 9,000,000 $425
-
Monthly Taxable Income 91,000,000 $4,292
Tax Bands -
VND -
5% on first 5,000,000 tax is 250,000 $12
10% on next 5,000,000 tax is 500,000 $24
15% on next 8,000,000 tax is 1,200,000 $57
20% on next 14,000,000 tax is 2,800,000 $132
25% on next 20,000,000 tax is 5,000,000 $236
30% on next 28,000,000 tax is 8,400,000 $396
35% Above 80,000,000 tax is 3,850,000 $182
Total Tax 22,000,000 $1,038
Net Monthly pay 78,000,000 $3,679
Total deductions are 22%

Obviously you can use this to calculate tax on lower or higher salaries. The VND 9 Mn tax relief is a single person's personal allowance. This is a straightforward calculation, tax will also be charged on other benefits received such as medical; but this is charged at the marginal rate at year end.

My apologies for the formatting, this was done in excel, copied into word and copied into Pprune!

[Luke SkyToddler]

The taxation thing with VNA is a very hot topic and it's way too complex to start getting into on this forum

To make a very long story very short, historically the expat pilots were not registered as individuals with the Vietnamese tax office, the airline dealt with our tax obligations through some other internal mechanism within the government :rolleyes:

That all changed about 18 months ago and now we are all either finished, or still going through the process, of getting individually legally registered with the Viet tax man.

People have, in the past, had issues with double taxation on return to their home countries, because the required paperwork was not available from the VN gov't.

The agencies say, that this should be less of a problem under the new system, and we should in the future be able to get these tax certificates from the VN government. However, it's a work in progress, as this is the first year we've spent under the new system.

As always, I would really advise anyone who thinks they might be affected by double taxation issues, to get professional advice and don't trust the opinion of anyone on the internet

[vivek67]

Hi Luke..thanks for the info.....could you also tell what kind of flying one can expect on the 330 fleet & please keep me posted with future updates. Thanks. Vivek

[pandazoo]

That helps guys thanks. Good thread this thanks to all for contributing.

[BlackandWhite2000]

So surprised to see this thread somehow comes alive again.

I stayed in VNA for 3 years, so I know it quite well.
First thing first.
Will I recommend you to join VNA now, as in Sep/2014 and hereafter?
The quick answer is:It all depands on the fleet.

For 321 CAP and FO:Absolutely "NO".
There is no discussion, the answer is just "NO". Even some local pilots are trying to running away from VNA 321 fleet to join the LCC Vietjet, this should explain everything. You fly as a dog, not as a human being. Always fly 5 or 6 days in a row, and then you get only 1 day off, and then again 5 or 6 days hard working in a row. Expect to fly 3 or 4 sectors EVERYDAY to small airports without ILS, and expect to begin your doggy day from 6:00 AM!(which means you have to wake up at 4:00 AM) As a CAP, you get less than 11000 usd per month(less than Vietjet) And guess what, the first year you only get 90% of your salary! So in fact in the first year, your salary as a 321 CAP is less than 10000 usd. Dont ask me why is the 10% deduction in the first year, this is the way it is, it is in every contract, there is no escape! Come on guys, you can easily get more than 16000 usd in China as a 321 CAP. Yes, in China you also fly domestic flights, but you fly to big airports with ILS. In VNA, you fly to so many small airports without ILS and without radar control. Every month there are some unstable approaches in 321 fleet, not a big surprise considering the workload along with so many non-precision approaches. Come on guys, dont talk to me the "air pollution" or "politics" issues in China, it is more or less the same in Vietnam. Many guys get their upgrade in VNA 321 and running away within 1 year after check out, this should explain why VNA never stops looking for direct entry 321 CAP for at least 6 years already, and its only getting worse because VNA is doing nothing to improve the bad working conditions in 321 fleet but saying:"We thank you for your hard working!" Yes, drivers in turn around fleet always work harder, but VNA 321 fleet is really one of the most difficult 321 job out there, with a very low salary.

For 777 CAP and FO:Go for it!
Especially if you are 777 FO, and you enjoy the benefit of long hual fleet and dont worry about the upgrade that much. In fact, many senior 777 FO refuse to upgrade in 321, as the difference in salary is only 1000 usd per month, but the roster and life style....it is heaven v.s. hell! I will say the 777 FO job in VNA is one of the best FO job out there:Salary is good; Job security is good; Roster and life style is good! As a 777 CAP, you will be working harder than FO, but still, it is not that bad. All you fly is to Euro, how many euro you can fly in one month anyway! And you have multiple crews or even double crews to Euro. Come on guys, it is not that bad actually.

For 330 CAP and FO:The answer is probably "NO".
Both CAP and FO fly 85~95 hours or even more every month. Expect at least 5 overnight flights and many domestic flights every month. Dont expect you can take some rest in the bunk when you fly those overnight flights, because theres no bunk in 330 and you only have 2 pilots. Yes, even on the 8.5 hours overnight flights to Astralia, you only have 2 pilots in he cockpit. Actually the roster and lifestyle in 330 is not so much different than those in 321 now, sometimes it is even worse because you get fatigue from both overnight flights and turn around domestic flights. For guys looking into chances to transfer to 350, it is positive. But hey...listen carefully, you have to pay for the training fee by youself, along with a training bond(you say:"what the fxxx...I pay for the training and I still have to be bonded?" I say:"man, that is the way it is in Vietnam", there is no escape), and you have "ZERO" salary until you begin the line training, and guess what...you will again get only 90% salary in 350 fleet for the first year.(I know, you again say:"what the fxxx...") Still feeling like to show off your 350 cockpit photos on FB? Well....you have been warmed.

The training fee/bond, 10% salary deduction in the 1st year....these also apply to guys transfer from 777 to 787. The thing is, all the 330 in VNA are on lease, which means you have to move to other fleet eventually, just a matter of time. While for 777, I can not remember the exact number but some 777 are actually owned by VNA, so VNA is going to keep some 777 operations. So if you dont like to accept those "what the fxxx", you can choose to stay in 777, not a problem.

[Dihedral1]

The only correction to Black and White's reply; VNA no longer imposes a 10% pay cut per say in the first year! However, you still aren't paid the full $10.8K as some is retained during the first 6 months and paid back at the end of the 5 year contract, if you resign before the 5 years you lose that money, so in effect you are bonded upon joining. His assessment of the flying and the fleet situation is pretty accurate.
This salary has been in effect since at least 2007, it sucks! And the flying is getting harder and harder. VNA/agencies are tinkering at the fringes with the T & Cs but in effect it's all illusory, as the overtime is almost impossible to get, they have reinterpreted sicks days and days off (so you have basically lost your sick days ) and the CAAV is in their pocket, so if you need to fly over 100hrs per month (as the local FOs are pushed to do) they will just change the Regs to allow more flying...
VNA is attempting.... An IPO:ugh: in the first half of 2014 they posted a $3MUSD before tax profit, on $1.3BUSD revenue, so basically the airline massaged the figures, to try and fool themselves/investors that they made a profit. We are talking a fraction of 1% even before TAX.
Yes wide bodies are coming, but even accounting for fuel efficiencies etc they are going to have to pay for the 32-36 wide bodies coming plus 321/ATR. The Government is strenuously pushing for the IPO because they are tired of subsidizing the airline...
VietJet has taken 25-30% of the domestic market in just over 2 years and the Gulf Carriers and Turkish are making major in roads both in pax and cargo.
So while VNA has great potential, without decisive, forward thinking management, it will be a bumpy ride...
VNA should have already offered its pilots a 25% pay increase , so they could stock up on the pilots they need in anticipation of the new aircraft arriving! instead they have once again been short sighted and are losing pilots to the ME and China and now local pilots to VietJet.
As alluded to before, if your not absolutely desperate, hold off! Crunch time is coming and the T & C will have to improve or planes will start to be parked..
As Luke highlighted before, Vietnam has a pollution problem as well, and China at least compensate you and offer 4/4 and 6/3 contracts. A survey of salaries to the north, highlight that you can earn more on 4/4 (6months of work) than a VNA321 Capt can on 6/2 (9 months of work). If you don't have a dodgy police record or kidney stones, head to China..
Of course 777 FO at VNA is still pretty decent...
Note FOs who upgrade still lose 10% the first year! as well as trg costs, bond and no salary during sim and wating for license (6-8 weeks on avg)
Same for Capts who transition to new A/c.
Only new hires get full salary (see above for explanation)

[Dihedral1]

Vietnam Airlines shoots for third in Southeast Asia | Business | Thanh Nien Daily (http://www.thanhniennews.com/business/vietnam-airlines-shoots-for-third-in-southeast-asia-31211.html)

[Luke SkyToddler]

Dunno why you guys want to work for VNA ...

Saigoneer | Exploring Saigon and Beyond - Leaked Photos From Racy VietJet Photo Shoot Cause Online Firestorm (http://saigoneer.com/vietnam-news/2745-leaked-photos-from-racy-vietjet-photo-shoot-cause-online-firestorm)

[FRE]

Does anyone have an update on the selection process at VNA these days?
They mention a technical and oral test on day 1 and if successful you can proceed to the simulator on day 2.

[Greenlights]

Dunno why you guys want to work for VNA ...

Saigoneer | Exploring Saigon and Beyond - Leaked Photos From Racy VietJet Photo Shoot Cause Online Firestorm

Luke, for information, those girls do not fly for VJC...they are just model and marketing, from the Venus Agency.
Same like VJ pretended to buy 90 planes or so...they have plane under leasing.
Actually according to a vietnamese article, they try to survive for doing this kind of marketing...they don't know how to attract with their reputation. (late etc).

To see sexy asian girls like that (long legs, thin body) no need to work for vj or vna, you just have to go to D1 in HCM in some bars or else. :)

The lfight attendants in VJ are cute (some soso) but have short legs most of the time, and normal appearance, especially if you remove the tons of make up they have lol!!

[cherokee and bus]

Can anyone describe the assessment day for Vietnam for a320 FOs ?
appreciate

[Smokie]

Yes, I would also be interested in above info, re: assessments, sim etc .:ok:

[Clown330]

A350 plans will be revised, I think so... A330NEO on approach :)

[Kapitanleutnant]

Clown….

Is the reasoning due to the price of the 350 vs the 330 NEO?

Luke, I think I just saw my future wife in that photo shoot!! :-)

K

[Cak]

First day of the assesment there is short theoretical knowledge test (50 questions, 30 minutes, mostly A32f systems, limitations and memory items). After that, short interview.
Next day, sim check

[airbus_indigo]

hello Luke I saw you online thought i should speak to you regarding the F/O in VNA A320 .....is it a good deal and to be honest how much is the take home pay after everything ...i mean in hand salary ...if you could answer me please.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Re salary, ask the agencies, the info is freely available.

Re A320, read the thread.

[cherokee and bus]

It seems that the interview process is really straight forward if the questioner is only airbus material

[PappyJ]

IPO news
Vietnam Airlines shoots for third in Southeast Asia | Business | Thanh Nien Daily

Same story has been running in the news each year for nearly a decade! "...VNA rises to number 3 in SE Asia..."

But, at least they've finally stepped ahead of number 4 (Jetstar Pacific) and number 5 (Tiger Airways). :D

[bigbird]

Thanks for all the previous posts about VNA, very useful. I have seen a typical A321 SGN roster but was wondering if HAN is much different in work pattern? Also are there likely to be any changes in the near future to terms and conditions being offered by the agencies for A321 fleet based HAN.
Thanks.

[Clown330]

Where is sim check for a330 usually take place?

[ZFT]

Currently KL or TPE

[pezetaroi]

FYI

A320 screening:

For the written, go through Smart Cockpit's A320 database, 2 memory items, a couple of limitations, and general knowledge such as: define RVR, TEMPO, SIGMET, ASDA, TORA, V1, Circling Cat C speeds/protection area, etc...

Interview, be yourself...

SIM check, expect a NPA, go around and ILS raw data, with one engine out. After that a double sistem failure that will lead you to perform a raw data ils, with ATHR off. You can stick to your company's SOPs.

Good luck:ok:

[Clown330]

ZFT

Thank you.

[Roti Canai]

So anyone had the mail from CEO saying about financial problem's not being resolved may affect the Staff salary by end of year?
I am not surprised anyway,

[Kapitanleutnant]

Whaaaaat????

Do tell please!!

K

[Dihedral1]

Yes roti, I saw that one. That is exactly what he said in the letter of Oct 10 to staff.
With only $3MUSD in profit for the financial year and ++$3.3BUSD in direct a/c purchases (350/787) and lease commitments for over 12 more (787/350) there isn't much free cash flow to service new loans or pay leases, yes there may be a few new routes but Vietjet and the boys from the Middle East and Turkey are making serious inroads.
State owned enterprises are notorious for not displaying the best business acumen, but rather basing decisions on perceptions of national pride and personal gain, until it comes crashing down al la Vinashin or Vinalines.
We shall see if miraculously VNA was the repository of the best business minds in the SOE framework or another folly, awaiting the dominoes to fall.:eek:

[MelbPilot85]

I wonder if anyone here can provide any info on time to upgrade?

I understand it can be difficult to predict, but assuming an FO joins with more than the minimum hours required for command, how long would you expect it to take before an opportunity came up to move to the LHS?

Is it generally based on date of joining for expats? Or is it more a case of who you know?

[Kapitanleutnant]

Although Vietjet is all the current rage for airlines in VN, would the government actually ever let Vietnam Airlines falter being that its the national flag carrier and all?

Seems that would be the biggest "black eye" to the government to let the national airline not necessarily go under but have a significant decrease in the airline world of Vietnam, especially with the new aircraft and new routes coming.

Yes, business is business and at the end of the day, you do have to make money, but hopefully this will make VNA realize they have to make changes to survive…..

Kap

[Dihedral1]

Kap,
the Government in Vietnam has been struggling to find the money for the new airport for the last 5 years, has poor infrastructure (roads, rail, ports), needs investment in education and healthcare, and is going to ramp up military spending now that the U.S. has lifted the embargo.
So whilst I am not suggesting they would let VNA die (huge black eye), they are aggressively pushing an IPO, because they have publicly stated they the don't want the economic burden of it. People in the aviation industry often look myopically, thinking their industry is the only one deserving of support. When quite often it is nothing more than a phallic projection of national pride. Whereas healthcare, infrastructure and education are very real and urgently needed investments.
Private enterprises such as VietJet, AirAsia and the Middle Eastern carriers (private, public?) will gladly fill the void.
Look at how many VNA321 spend all day parked on the ramp, ask pilots there what the daily utilization rates are like, ask about the 4 lemon 777's. Honestly, while most pilot's there are excited about the arrival of the 350 & 787, this punter believes the arrival MAY expose some irrational exuberance.
A number of SE Asian airlines have recently adjusted a/c requirements and cut overcapacity, time will tell if VNA has been guided by a deft, shrewd hand or more of the "same same".
Peace

[kwaiyai]

I saw this one worded something like this, Kap, Must be the same,

In The preliminary review of the first 6 months of this year,

The Board of Members has forced to decide not to pay usual additional salaries as one of the measures of financial balance and stability during this tough business time. If the problem of balance is not resolved, the income of all staff by the end of the year will definitely be affected.

One of my VNA local Colleagues has just walked over to vietjet with 4 of his friends BTW.

[Dihedral1]

Indeed, I saw the same letter from their CEO. Your quote is accurate.
Funny, in 2010 expats had a 5% paycut to help out, for 6 months.
No there is nothing in the expat contract about helping out. :ugh:
And.... No they didn't get it back when the airline posted a claimed profit in successive years...
2015 will be interesting. And yes the locals are heading to VietJet.
Now if Vietjet management were smart (oxymoron), they would introduce a PROPER stable rostering system and give a travel allowance and/or sign a Zed fare agreement. Also get their upgrade program up and running and then... It would be really interesting...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Well…. this is a bit disconcerting to me as I've been looking seriously at the contract in the near future with VN.

I did send an email to my contact at Rishworth to see if they are privy to any of this…. which I'm somewhat convinced they are not, and more than likely know nothing about it, but worth asking about.

Guess, I'll just have to wait and see what the next few months bring…

I've spent quite a bit of time in VN the past 6 weeks and have really grown fond of it… friendly people, good food, good drink, inexpensive living. But CRAZY traffic!!

K

[Dihedral1]

What fleet are you looking at?
A search of this thread will tell you the 321 fleet is hard work.:ugh:
Don't get me wrong, things happen here in slow time, so if you need a job, there is one waiting for you.
My forecast is based on CEO statements and what happened at Vinashin, which everyone saw like a slow moving train wreck, but because they were all feeding at the trough, nothing was done until they defaulted on a $600M USD bond payment on $6B USD of debt and wrecked the countries credit rating.
Some argument could be made for replacing older wide bodies with newer aircraft, but these orders were made before the advent of VietJet and the likes of Emirates etc showed up.
The game is rapidly changing!
Vietjet is compressing margins in the domestic arena and now on the regional front and The ME carries are taking the premium traffic to Europe. AirAsia is now offering transit flights within their and AirAsia Xs network, so outbound traffic from Vietanm (Vietnamese consumers are quick learners, and recognize value for money and/or good service) is not the sole domain of VNA anymore, inbound traffic have many choices and VNA doesn't do themselves any favors when they send 777s to Frankfurt, with paint peeling off the a/c, the IFE INOP and half the business class seats not working properly (hey Luke Toddler, jump in at anytime if I am incorrect:p).
Hopefully the talk of ANA becoming a Strategic investor will materialize. Vietnam is blessed with amazing people, great weather, fantastic food, stunning geography, if the airline could employ the service levels of Singapore Airlines, the efficiency of the Japanese and treat it as a proper business instead of their nepotistic feeding ground, there be no stopping them...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Dihedral1…

A PM awaits you!

Kapitanleutnant

[BlackandWhite2000]

" if the airline could employ the service levels of Singapore Airlines, the efficiency of the Japanese and treat it as a proper business instead of their nepotistic feeding ground, there be no stopping them..."

That....my friend, is not going to happen in at least 300 years.
It is not because VNA.
It is because the so-called "Vietnamese Culture" that local people are so proud of.

If you have actually "lived" in Vietnam for some time, instead of just enjoying the cheap beer, you will know what I mean by "Vietnamese Culture".
Vietnamese are very very conservative, almost rigid. Yes, you will find lots of "open-minded" young ladies in Pubs, but even they are just open to sex for money, nothing else. For 99% of the Vietnamese, its very difficult for them to accept, to understand, anything that is not a part of Vetnamese culture.

For example, marriage.
95% of Vietnamese get married and have kids before 28. Now, I am not saying it is right or wrong, because there is no right or wrong. But for Vietnamese, they can not understand "Hey Jacky, you are 30 already, why you dont get married?"
They just can not understand that there is other choice, they can not understand that how can people live a single live.
Anything that is a not a part of Vietnamese culture, they have huge difficulty to understand, and honestly, they dont really bother to understand.
This is the main reason why things in Vietnam changes so slow.

Chinese people nowdays are so different than thier elder just 30 years ago. But in Vietnam, now people are still same same with their elder in 200 years ago. This is the most amazing part of Vietnam, if you really try to understand Vetnam.
"Things just do not change."
Yes, they have Starbucks now.
Yes, very soon they will have B787 and A350, the newest jet airplanes.
But Vietnamese, they are the same, they do not change.

[Dihedral1]

Not much of a beer drinker.

I must say, if you check service delivery and management ethos among the foreign educated younger Vietnamese (check out the tech start up scene) and among the overseas Vietnamese who have returned, it is on par with Oz, UK, USA etc

That said they have huge problems opening up the mindset of local rural Vietnamese and their elders, but they are fast learners. Talk to the pilots trained overseas who fly the 321, they are night and day different in their outlook to their fathers flying the 777.

On Vietnamese TV is a show about 5 woman who are all over 30, single, childless and professionals, so the times are a changing. I laugh at your assessment of 300 years, in that time the U.S. went from colonial upstart to World power to now still strong but fading superpower.

[Greenlights]

Im asian and know VN , lived there.
Some things are true but not fair.
First some vietnamese are old fashion, but mostly parents and grand parents.
The new generation nowadays is very near the occident culture. My ex g/f is 30 is not married, she has indeed pressure from her family "why are you not married".
That's true.
BUT, she does not care. And many girls do not care now. Many told me, they prefer to be married later on with a good guy than being married and unhappy.
Vietnamese meets many foreigners now and they are aware of what it is in other part of world.

another thing, don't expect a country who had known the war for many years (against japanese, french, usa) to change so fast. A country never changes like that. It needs time.
and don't think that girls only want sex and money, that's very wrong and not fair to them. I dated 3 girls, we broke up and are still freinds.
They give me ride, they help me if I have some administration problems, etc without asking me anything.
They are human being you know...not sex/money machine.
Of course depends where you. If you date hookers, that's your problem.

btw, I can say many stories about foreigners acting badly in VN...just because they feel "superior". They just want to f**** many girls in same time.

[chrispatrickGA]

Guys,

Would you mind coming back to the original topic about VNA.
I must admit that I am very unknowledgeable about Vietnam and their national carrier, yet all comments I can get so far is that vietnemese are extremely warm and welcoming.
After having checked a bit what they offer to tourists or expats desiring to seettle in for a couple of years, it looks like this country is really amazing...

Having closed the subject now, what about the contractors working with VNA?
I have so far contacted 2(Parc and Rishworth) and some differences in the contracts show that it'worth reading carefully their different offers to choose the best contract: can you tell us a bit more ? anybody working on A330/B777 get a good experience with any of the contractors involved in VNA recruitment?

Thanks for your information.

Safe flights to all you.

[BlackandWhite2000]

Do not worry about the contracts, they are 99.9% the same.
Yes, maybe some differences in medical insurance policy, maybe you get your salary on different day....but hey, big deal???

They are the same contracts.

[airplanedriver]

Guys, I've gone thru the t&c's with dpi. Note it's clearly stated that for the first 28 days there'll be NO pay, only hotel and transport. I presume this is for the period of ground school till line training starts which then the pay amounts to $243/day. And then after getting checked out, the $10,800 for the rest of the 6/2 contract. There is some discrepancy as someone told me that before this for about 7 months u didn't actually receive the full pay but has this actually changed with the DPI contract or is there something I'm not being told? Anyone here working for VNA thru DPI? Any info is much appreciated.

[Stone_cold]

If you are type rated / experienced and are willing to accept these conditions . You deserve each other .

[Kapitanleutnant]

Airplane Driver….

Those numbers are on par with what Rishworth offers as well…. no pay initially, partial pay and then when finished with training, full pay EXCEPT… for the first 3 or so months, they take about a quarter of your salary for a "security bond", which is returned upon completion of your contract.

What my concern is…. is that once the 330's and 777's go away, how much will the "pay for training" be to transfer to the new 350's and 787's. I've heard one say an astronomical figure of about 40-50K (USD) for it. I find this quite over the top as, for example, the difference between the 777 and 787 is merely about a 5 day differences course and maybe 1 sim (at least this is the way my old airline is doing it)…. and it's nowhere near a full course, so how can it be so expensive at VNA for this? Will it be pay upfront… will it be a bank loan, will it be a bond??? In addition, as I understand the EASA or JAA of Europe has these two (777/787) as common type ratings!!!! Someone is making a LOT of money from this.

Kap

[airplanedriver]

Kapitan, very valid points. Thank you. Just for my info, as I'll be on the 320 if I join, will they be phasing them out as well? Or only the 330's and 777's? Absolutely, those figures reek of some corrupted a**e trying to screw desperate individuals.

Generally how long after joining would u be able to start actually making the full pay? Can it take 7 months as someone told me awhile back? Cos that long with 75% of the pay is not really going to make me want to go there in a hurry.

[airplanedriver]

Correct, the 320's are phased out. They now operate 50+ 321's

[Kapitanleutnant]

FYI.... Maybe old news but:
Just reading that the first 787 at VNA is scheduled for July next year and will do both SGN and HAN to London Gatwick as its first rotation with VNA.

K

[fullforward]

Just heard they stopped accepting applications for B777 Capt from a couple of weeks ago.
Any thoughts?:confused:

[Kapitanleutnant]

If they are, I'd think it's only temporary. My sources tell me they'll be looking for pilots for quite a while….

Also just checked A few contract websites and Flightglobal, all of which still show new adverts from within the week.

K

[Cak]

They need little bit more then 300 pilots for the next year and presently they are in a lack of 32 whole crews

[BlackandWhite2000]

The training cost for 350/787....40-50K USD is too much, as I understand.

I will say, you can expect a total cost of "18-30K USD".
The total cost includes your type rating training, and also, you dont get any salary since the date the training begin until your first flight on the new aircraft. Things happen slowly in Vietnam. Yes, maybe the training itself is not so expensive and takes only 2 weeks including ground school. But then, you have to wait for the written test, wait for the CAAV license, and wait for something you can not imagine....
You will be very lucky if you get all things done in 6 weeks, during which you have no salary at all. So....expect a total cost of 18-30K USD for the training.

BTW, it is confirmed:"Someone is making money out of this" XD

[Dropp the Pilot]

Where did you see the job ads?

[Dihedral1]

If a pilot were to buy a Ford Fiesta (MSRP of $25K USD) and you asked him how much he paid. He might tell you 22K to demonstrate his negotiating prowess, while omitting to tell you he actually paid 27K.
Secondly, he won't add up the cost of fuel, Maintainence, insurance, tires, depreciation and the cost of the bank loan. To actually figure out that the car cost him 35K in the first year.
So when estimating the cost of a VN type rating, make sure you add in all the components. Loss of salary during training, type rating cost, upfront cost of bond (refundable after 3yrs) and 10% reduced salary when upgrading or transitioning to a new type, then throw in a compounding future value calculation for the money spent. That is the true cost.

[Dihedral1]

Perhaps, the temporary 777 hiring freeze is to assess, how far $51M will get them when they have over $3.3B worth of aircraft back ordered. Company plans to sell 20% to strategic investor at a company valuation of $1.5B or $300M for the 20% stake.
Company would have to sell itself more than twice to raise all the funds needed for WB aircraft orders.. :ugh:

Vietnam Airlines IPO fails to lure foreigners after 6-year wait | Business | Thanh Nien Daily (http://www.thanhniennews.com/business/vietnam-airlines-ipo-fails-to-lure-foreigners-after-6year-wait-33980.html)

Interesting...State owned airline bought by State owned Bank..

A source of Thoi Bao Kinh Te Saigon newspaper told the newspaper that the two local institutions registering to buy almost all shares offered by VNA in the IPO, around 48.32 million shares, include a privatized commercial joint stock bank and a state-run commercial joint stock bank in which VNA has once been a shareholder.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Well…

According to the two contracts I have read, the "no pay" in the beginning is for a maximum of 28 days or completion of ground courses whichever occurs first. So… worst case you're not paid for "only" 28 days. I still believe someone is making BIG money from this arrangement though.

Also having been in the airlines for as long as I have (27 plus years), it has always amazed me how long an airline can last when it's considered "financially troubled". I recall Pan Am, TWA and Eastern all in the US, lasting well over a decade with having absolutely no net profit whatsoever, yet continuing to operate somehow for years and years.

The fact that VNA is The National Airline, I still believe that the government there will not let them falter. If it's local VN banks that invest, so be it. It is probably just a round about way for making the necessary infusion of cash to maintain the status quo of VNA so the government can appear to have made the artificial IPO as well as saving face that they indeed were able to find "investors" in their National Airline.

Just my two cents

K

[Dihedral1]

No your right Kap, 28 days no pay (people accept that, who are type rated??) is for new hires. I thought the discussion was about the costs of a new type rating IE 330 to 350 etc. My apologies if I read the discussion black&white had posted wrong.:oh:
Yes indeed airlines that are insolvent can linger, as well as unravel rather quickly. My aim was just to highlight (to fellow pilots) that all is not a bed of roses, financially speaking..

[Kapitanleutnant]

No worries Dihedral… Maybe I misread as well. You may be right on the cost to current VNA pilots re the transition cost over to the new equipment… but I sure hope you're wrong!! :-)

K

[thatwasclose]

Does anyone have an idea what the current rosters are like on the 777?

[fullforward]

Interesting: this position is closed with PARC but it's open with Rishworth!:confused:
What it takes? VNA is client of both agencies.
It doesn't make sense at all.

[Kapitanleutnant]

DPI still showing the openings as well…

I do think if it has stopped/slowed down, its just temporary.

As to the roster, I've heard that it's quite a full month during your 6 weeks on… 90 plus hours for the 4 weeks and about 50 plus for the 2 weeks. No rest for the weary!!

K

addendum: Forgot to add only 7 days off per month as well.

[Dihedral1]

Some Agencies advertise, even when hiring has stopped. They get you to sign up with them, as some gullible pilots convince themselves, that "their" agency has the inside track.
Once you submit the paperwork via a particular agency, they basically own you, in terms of a job with the relevant airline.
Also they use this a a negotiating tactic with the airline, they show the airline how full their "book" is with potential candidates..
Then said pilot is left wondering what's happened as the weeks turn into to months.
A cursory exam of flight global jobs would have shown some agencies actively Advertising for A380 Capts even after that deal fell through at Skymark (Japan) with Airbus, obviously some agencies pay in advance for ads, but reputable (hmm?) agencies usually update the ads "On Hold" etc or withdraw.
Pays to do a little homework...:sad:

[Dihedral1]

The Assignment Period will be 5 (five) years from the commencement date as outlined below with potential extensions thereafter in compliance with the Age Limitations of the CAAV.

The Assignment Period is the period commencing from the date you are issued CAAV’s license, or from the 28th day counted from the date of participation on the ground course, whichever is earlier. However NO fees:mad: (basic payment nor Per Diems or accommodation allowances) are payable to you for this period.
 Months 1-4 of paid Service US$7,103 is payable.
 Months 5 onwards of paid Service the rate increases to US$10,800.
 All amounts above inclusive of Basic Payment, Monthly
Accommodation Allowance and Monthly Per Diems.
Overtime | Every Hour in excess of 160 Block Hours in any 2 Consecutive months is payable at a rate of US$120 per Block Hour.

Upon successful completion of the full contract term a Completion Bonus of US$11,100 will be payable. (Actually just a return of money from months 1-4 of paid service):ugh:

[JetABro]

From what I've seen, Rishworth and DPI have the same bonding payment system in the first year. Only Parc seems to not require a bond. When I asked why they were different, they simply said that the airline does not require it.
This is the A321 contract at least.

[Kapitanleutnant]

If you do the math, they're quite the same actually, the only difference is that with Rishworth for example, they take the approx $9,300 in the beginning over a 3 month period and when you finish the 5 year contract (or more) you then receive it all back.

With the Parc contract, you're paid less each month but they don't take anything out initially and you don't receive the lump sum at the end of the 5 years.

So, at the end of the 5 year term, it's a complete wash… both are equal.

Kap

[BlackandWhite2000]

-----------------
a_pilot

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
What is HCM like to live in ?
-----------------

Well.....it really depands.

If you like music, art, live performance....etc, you will find there is not too much to do in HCM.
But...if you like cheap bia, pub and love affair, you will enjoy HCM a lot.

Especially, if you are from Euro,US,AUS, you are only second to a really KING in HCM, actually in any place in Vietnam.
Nothing personal, this is a FACT in Vietnam, even its 2014 now.

[vivek67]

Hi,
The ad for captains A330 has been out for more than 1 yr while the fleet strength remains the same. Is nobody joining & if so why....OR are people leaving & again if so,,,WHY.

Also is it true that VNA is owned by the PM?

[theXfactor]

Especially, if you are from Euro,US,AUS, you are only second to a really KING in HCM, actually in any place in Vietnam.
Nothing personal, this is a FACT in Vietnam, even its 2014 now.


Can someone translate this to non git-speak.

[BlackandWhite2000]

To vivek67,

1.There are not so many type-rated 330 CAP available in the market.

2.Yes, people are leaving 330. Some to middle east, some to Vietjet(yes, not only 320 pilots, now even 330 pilots are heading to Vietjet).

3.Some local pilots will retire in a year or 2.

4.350 is coming next year, and all local pilots in 330 want to fly the fancy 350.

IMHO, do not join 330 in VNA, for the roster is terrible in 330 now.
8.5 hours flight time(more than 10 hours duty time) to Australia, with only 2 pilots, and yes, it is overnight flight.
7 hours flight time(again, more than 10 hours duty time) from SGN to HAN, then HAN to Japan, again with only 2 pilots, and yes, it is overnight flight again.

Every month you will have 4-5 those terrible flights, and it does not stop here, because you still have to fly so many domestic turn around flight.

It will be even worse in 2015, because when 350 arrives, many local 330 pilots will be transferred to 350. You, as an expat, are the only one left to fly those terrible overnight flights.

[BlackandWhite2000]

to theXfactor:

Forgive me please, because English is not my native language.

It means, you people from EURO/USA/AUS with white skin, are taking advantage of those poor Vietnamese girls.

I hope this is clear enough.

[UALSIC]

It's probably the other way around :}

[On Final]

Hello All,

After 7 years in China, time to try something else..ha.

I have read through the many lose threads about Vietnam Airlines but no so much info out there it seems.

I am looking to interview soon at VA and need some information regarding the screening process on the A330. I heard 3 days for everything? Sim Check basic Air Bus? I know the salary is way low but i think they will have to raise it soon with the new aircraft orders.

Any other info would be greatly appreciated..!

Happy Flights,

Downdraft

[vivek67]

Hi,

Keep me informed as I am also interested. Which agency are you applying through. Also if you think they are going to increase the salary, don't you think you should wait.

[On Final]

Hello Vivek,

I am looking at DPI for Vietnam Airlines but am still on the fence. In China we are all given a "Me Too" deal in out contracts, means after you sign and later down the road the pay goes up for new contracts, you also get the increase.

My understand at Vietnam Airlines, its not the same, once you sign you are Locked in for the duration of your contract and pay level.

Now I at looking at the situation with Vietnam Airlines, I heard some pilots are leaving and others are not coming for new A330 positions. With new aircraft on the way, lack of pilots, I feel its good to wait as long as possible for the pay to go up.

That would suck to sign on a 5 Year contract and 3 months later the pay goes up to match the current market...ouch..!

Anyone that has any current information about the situation at Vietnam Airlines, please chime in, would be great to hear from you...!!!

Happy Flights,

On Final

[Dihedral1]

Multiple problems in my humble opinion.

- Correct, not aware of the "me to" contract clause in fact there are discrepancies between contracts, Instructor pay for example, medical benefits, O/T (Parc are being forced to accept what Rishworth proposed in this regard)

- 330 Capts are starting to work as hard as 320 Capt's (hard!), this will only get worse as local Capts go to the A350 or jump over to VietJet (much better local terms).

- once the A350s all arrive (forecast 2018) you may be offered a slot on the New bird, but it will then cost you..not cheap! Nobody knows true cost, but I have elaborated on FO to Capt or 320 to 330 costs before on this forum, which are easily verifiable.

So it may not be the 5 yr contract you might be hoping for, unless prepared to spend a bit of money..

Salary wise, whilst Vietnam might be a bit cheaper than, say China, the salaries have remained static since 2008 and prices locally & globally have gone up during that time..:ugh:

An increase of 15-20% would easily fix pilot retention and recruitment problems, certainly cheaper than parking planes, which by the looks of things, should hit them over Tet (lunar New Year) going forward (summer) to new aicraft deliveries.

Hold off a little if you can. Hopefully the bean counters will have an epiphany:ok:

[On Final]

Hello Dihedral and all.

Thanks much for the data, I am putting everything on hold at this point. The parts which are hard to stomach for a current A330 Capt is the 27 days "No Pay", no excuse for that.

Also the 1 to 4 months pay of 7K to 8K what is that all about? For now its just too low to do the deal. Also there are no "Me Too Clause" and if you sign for 5 years, you own it, even if in 6 months the pay goes up.

I heard its a good place to work in general but its mainly money as well. Lost that loving feeling to fly jets..haha.

I wish you and everyone good luck and a Happy New Year..!!

Happy Flight,

On Final

[Dihedral1]

27 days no pay.. Indeed:=

[fatbus]

No pay for 27 days is a deal breaker!

[Dihedral1]

for those of you considering Vietnam Airlines, do yourself a favor & wait awhile.
Over 30 local pilots have requested to resign...unfortunately the newspapers, as usual only get half the story, it's not just a salary thing for them, but working conditions and how they have been treated over the years...
Same applies to the expats...2015 is going to be an interesting year..

English - VietNamNet News (http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/society/120960/vietnam-airlines--pilots-demand-pay-rise.html#)

[kwaiyai]

That makes sense Dihedral. I just left the Cambodia Angkor Air which as you may know is mainly crewed by Local VNA crew on short contract.
CAA appear to be losing work and under pressure from 3 Competitor's now. I hear they are supposed to be recruiting more expat's from outside.
Maybe they need the local crew's back in VNA. Certainly some of the VNA Capts from over here left to VJC recently after there contract was up.

[Dihedral1]

This seems to be latest plan to deal with crew shortages..

"VNA has advised that it is seeking volunteers from all fleets to go to an 8x2 roster pattern or higher (eg 8x1, 10x2, 10x1) as soon as possible, to help with the shortage of crews over the next 6 months"

As previously discussed, hold off, until pay during first 28 days is reinstated and they bump pay to something realistic in 2015..

[BlackandWhite2000]

For all those insterested in VNA:"Please just wait and see!"

2015 is a disaster to VNA!
1.787 and 350 are sure to come. (The first 350 is coming around mid in 2015)
2.So many expat and local pilots are leaving every month.

VNA has already raised the salary for local guys starting from 2015. Its not a big rise, so local guys are still running away from VNA to VJet. For expat, the salary has been fixed for 7 years already. 2015 is a good time for VNA to provide a better package. Actually, if there is no salary increase for expat in 2015, then do not expect there will be any salary increase for the next 5 years, at least.

Vietnamese, they think differently.
Yes, a 15%~20% increase in salary for expat is a nice (actually, a must) solution. But they do not think this way. They think:"Hey...if you expat are willing to stay for this salary, why bother to increase it? Pilots keep leaving? That is fine, we will hire new guys."
You see....VNA knows 2015 is gonna be a disaster, but they do nothing to stop expat from running. And now they come up with this stupid solution:"request expat to fly at least 8/2 pattern, instead of the standard 6/2 pattern". Can you believe this?
People are leaving because the schedule is so tiresome, and thier solution is:"Hey dear expat, could you please fly more to help with the pilot shortage?"

Please just wait and see.
VNA needs to provide a better package. There is no other solution. The thing is VNA has to see some aircrafts sitting on the ground because of pilot shortage, and they can really understand that provide a better package for expat is the only possible solution.
Please just wait and see.
The pilot shortage in VNA is a huge issue starting from 2015. So do not be afraid that you won't be able to join VNA after they increasing salary for expat. The pilot shortage is too big.
Please just wait and see.

[Stone_cold]

I once responded to one of the Agencies , asking if they would work free for a month and reduced pay for 3-6 months being fully current and qualified . As expected , never got a response .

[Kapitanleutnant]

That must be an airbus issue mostly/only because I have several colleagues who've applied for the FO/CA side for the Boeing… all well qualified, and have not been offered an interview. Not sure what to make of that….

K

[Dihedral1]

VNA has been in growth mode for a number of years, but they plan on a last minute basis, 2 years ago they were getting rid of expats ( as if unaware of 787/350 coming), now that the new planes are coming it is panic stations, as both local and expats bail for better conditions.
So if 777 guys/gals haven't been called it's because they are overwhelmed, with pilot attrition, 2 new aircraft models to introduce and heavy competition both on the domestic front, with their JV in Cambodia and from the Gulf Carriers..
At the risk of being controversial, by the time one makes it to 777 Capt, that pilot is a pretty experienced/valuable resource, not like a newbie 500hr Capt on a 320/737, so why would well qualified 777 crew apply for a job that doesn't pay you for the first month, offers reduced salary for the next 3 and then offers a generally uncompetitive salary.. On Pprune there are many discussions/rants about declining Terms and Conditions, but seems to me that pilots play into the hands of industry management, by leaving a job to come for conditions such as is currently on offer..
Airline execs talk and attend aviation shows and conferences, they are not stupid.:ugh:
Just a thought!

[Dihedral1]

100% correct.. Wait & see what is on offer..
From US carries to Gulf Carriers to HK, to mainland China to SE Asia there is a need for pilots.. Don't believe me just go to Flight Global Jobs etc..
Don't come for a contract that has gotten worse than when introduced in 2008, at least then you got paid from the start, now no pay and reduced salary for a few months ( heard some sort of bond thing, for type rated guys, :mad:).
Even the local guys are jumping ship for better conditions...
If you wait, something, will have to be done... You apply and accept current offer, you only reinforce management thinking...

[BlackandWhite2000]

Yes, "Vietnamese always plan on a last minute basis". This is 100% truth.
This is not only an issue for VNA, this is an issue for the whole Vietnam.

I personally have been stayed in VN for 5 years, and many expat over 10 years. We may have different opinions about working and living in VN, but every expat would agree that "There is no plan at all in VN, in every aspect".

Just take a look at the TSN airport.
The capacity of TSN airport is way behind the increasing number of flights and aircrafts. It is so obvious from at least 3 years ago that they need a much bigger airport, and what they do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The only solution they come up with is:"xxx, stand by for pushback due to traffice taxi in/out." You have to wait for pushback for 10 minutes or more in such a airport, not because its as busy as Hong Kong airport, but because of its very bad design and very limited capacity.

Man.....
Starting from 2015, VNA really needs to provide a better package for expat. Otherwise, its just a matter of time, some aircrafts are gonna be grounded because of pilot shortage. Rumor has it that, when the lunar new year comes in next month, there will not be enought pilots to fly all those extra flights.
BTW, VNA is gonna change its FOM pretty soon, so a local FO with only 2500 hours will be qualified for command upgrade.
What a great plan!

[Kapitanleutnant]

Dihedral and Blackandwhite

Thanks for the good information! I always appreciate an insiders take and perspective on the airline and conditions and you two guys tell it very well.

Thanks for that!

DIHEDRAL… I just sent you a PM

Kap

[Tatarin]

Hi!
Can you guys tell me about interview for A-320 capt.positon. What they usually ask?
Thank you!

[pezetaroi]

Tatarin:

FYI

A320 screening:

For the written, go through Smart Cockpit's A320 database, 2 memory items, a couple of limitations, and general knowledge such as: define RVR, TEMPO, SIGMET, ASDA, TORA, V1, Circling Cat C speeds/protection area, etc...

Interview, be yourself...

SIM check, expect a NPA, go around and ILS raw data, with one engine out. After that a double sistem failure that will lead you to perform a raw data ils, with ATHR off. You can stick to your company's SOPs.

Good luck! ;-)

[Tatarin]

Thanks a lot for the quick answer!
Pezetaroi are you at VNA?

[pezetaroi]

Tatarin...

I atended a screening last year, although succesful I declined the offer, basically due to family matters. I'm still considering reapplying but in a commuting option. My friends flying there (HCM and Hanoi) are having a good time, so that says alot. The only thing I really didn't like about HCM was the motorcycles, way too many, lots of noise... Other than that, people were friendly, food was great and you can find a nice place to live in with less than 1,000 usd, so that means more cash at the end of the month on your wallet...

There is no perfect job out there, much less as an expat, I still think VNA is a fair option ;-)

[Tatarin]

What about medical exam? Does it same as in China?

[pezetaroi]

I've been told it's very basic...

[Dihedral1]

Blood work, Chest X Ray, Ultrasound, ECG, Eyes, E.N.T., Internal/Surgery Exam,

Maybe no brain scan or treadmill, like China, but they have still caught a few guys who held 1st class Medicals from US, Australia and Mexico (to my personal knowledge) with issues.. In fairness, they will try to work with you and local or your specialist, if it is not an outright medical fail.
Always pays to do your own medical check beforehand. At VNA/Vietjet the medical is not part of the screening, so once in a while, prior to line training someone gets a call..sucks if you resigned from elsewhere..

[Tatarin]

What kind of call? Put you down on medical check?

[Dihedral1]

Erh... call that you failed medical or have an issue.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Tatarin…

What Dihedral is saying is this:

You interview at VNA

You are hired with a start date at VNA

You then resign from you current airline

You start ground school for a few weeks and some point during that time, you are scheduled to take your "official interview medical exam"

You fail it for whatever reason… but you now have no options as you've already resigned your position with your previous airline and you're basically left out in the cold.

I honestly don't know why they do it this way as it can seriously ruin the life of some pilots who had otherwise counted on VNA to be their new employer for a number of years.

Wonder why they do it this way…. anyone there know?

K

[Tatarin]

Ok i understood. Thanks for made its clear.

[Dihedral1]

Why- I am no expert. But IMHO.
All simulators (ATR, 330, 777) and until a couple of years ago (320) are located outside Vietnam, so it would increase the cost and logistics of screening.
As it is the local 320 sim whilst quite new, seems to have reliability issues, so I think even some 320 screening is ending up outside of Vietnam.. That might be the reason, then again I could be completely off base, might be some CAAV issue..

[fatbus]

If you have a job and you are concerned about medicals at any expat outfit, stay where you are! Out of job different story.

[Tatarin]

Fortunately i dont have any problem with medical yet. I just wondered because in Russia we have almost the same medical as in China.

[Tatarin]

How much block hours per month you guys fly on A-320 in VNA?

[Dihedral1]

Hours vary, pretty much on the high side, some guys right at 100hrs, some at 80hrs. Then on month of vacation maybe 50-60hrs in 14 days.
Think Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi vary a bit, maybe a bit better in Hanoi (Japan/Korean flights). I stand to be corrected..:=
So on 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off you could hit close to 160hrs and still not earn overtime :mad:
Regardless of Base, think majority of pilots would agree, we are working a lot, with no end insight:ugh:
And so far no pay increase since 2008:}

[Kossack]

Hi guys.
What about roster on A330?
Deadhead flights etc. ?
I heard that it's getting worse.

[flying headbutt]

Hi, apologies if this has been answered before but, if you are dual rated, is there any mixed fleet flying in VNA between A320 and A330 or are you confined to one fleet? Thanks

FH

[mach 84]

confined to one fleet. 330 is a bit better as on the 320 you have a lot of days with 4 sectors.

[flying headbutt]

Thanks for the reply. Have a good one. FH

[BAe 146-100]

Any plans to start recruiting expat f/o on the 321 again?

[Kapitanleutnant]

Have heard VNA will be assessing their needs after the Tet holiday so maybe just another month or two… but who knows what will happen.

Just what I've been told.

Kap

[BlackandWhite2000]

It is not the "block hours" in 321 killing you, it is the "sectors" you have to fly.

There are so many short sectors (around or less than 1 hours) in 321. For many reasons, roster will give you these 4 short sectors in one day, so you end up with only 4 hours block time while your duty time is more than 8 or 9 hours in one day.

You think 8 or 9 hours duty time is nothing you can not handle, then you are very wrong.
1. You have to fly 4 sectors a day very often, your fatigue is slowly building up everyday.
2. You are flying into local small airports without radar control, without ILS, with lots of tailwind landing on short runways, with possibility to fly a circle to land, with very high terrain around the airport...All these things make the short sectors very stressful. You are not flying into Hong Kong, there is no ATC to help you, you are on your own.
3. You have to fly with all those young cadet with very little experience and skill and knowledge....Again, you are on your own.

321 is a hard working fleet everywhere, but it is even more harder in VNA.
This is why people keep running away from VNA.

[Kapitanleutnant]

BW2000 & Dihedral….

Is there much difference between VNA and Vietjet regards to this rostering and do they fly into the same type airports. Just curious….

Kap

[tknapp]

Same flying but only 30 minute turns

[Lost in Saigon]

It looks like they will start flying the 787's to Heathrow in March and Gatwick in July.

When are the 787's being delivered to VNA?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/msowsun/photo%20stuff/photo16/VN1.jpg~original

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/msowsun/photo%20stuff/photo16/VN2.jpg~original

[Kapitanleutnant]

Nice photos but you're a bit outdated…

VN will start serving LHR Heathrow vs Gatwick this year with the 787's. Also just read that Paris will be an A-350 route.

Very cool stuff to read…

Kap

[Dihedral1]

Paris & Lon are already routes served by VNA, so news of them on the 787/350 is to be expected.. More important, with a doubling of the widebody fleet envisaged, would be an announcement of some totally new routes, hopefully taking the fight to the Gulf/Turkish carriers and and the likes of KAL, ANA, CX etc.
That said, it seems the first commercial flight of the 350 has slipped a few months to September..
Apart from crewing issues, the influx of a/c by both domestic and international carriers is putting a strain on ATC, the airspace and particularly the SGN airport (which authorities in spite of the overwhelming evidence, are still debating whether to build a new purpose designed airport - they should look to the new Dubai and planned Beijing airport for inspiration, sadly it seems they are following UK/Heathrow, lot of talk, but no decisions, while losing the title of No.1 International airport to Dubai)..
As with the need to increase the salaries of the pilots at VNA, and the need to build a purpose built Hub/cargo airport (manufacturing is shifting from China to the likes of Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar), it would appear, that only when the s$&t hits the fan, will action be taken..:ok:

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks for the good update Dihedral!
Are guys having to hold much on arrival there in SGN? In Dubai, it seems a common theme each night and morning
.... All of course with no extra pay!!

Any ideas of where the new SGN might be located?

Kap

[ldodds1]

Hi

Are the tests mutli choice/ computer based?

[Dihedral1]

Vietnam Airlines will take delivery of the first of 19 Boeing 787-9s in May, and the first of 14 Airbus A350-900s in June. The SkyTeam carrier ordered the Boeing 787-8 in 2007 and converted the order to the larger model 787-9 in October 2010. It also ordered the A350s in 2007. Reported by ATW.

[Kossack]

Yepp. 30 questions Just the same as in smartcockpit. Go threw them thoroughly in order to save time. Plus 15 questions to explain what is for: TODA,MORA,SIGMET,V2;memo items(emer descend,loss of breaking),limitations(just few). Only 30 minutes for 45 questions on the whole.
Good luck.
P.S.:Are you applying for a320?

[Kossack]

Hi guys.
Is there anybody who passed the sim-check on A330 for VNA recently?!
I would be REALLY Appreciate for any info!
Sim-check scenario for F/O Most Wanted!
Thanks in advance.

[vivek67]

Hi, I am in Hanoi for a day....leaving 20th morning....any chance of meeting any of you guys flying with VNA ..especially the 330guys. Am staying in Tay ho.

Thanks.

Vivek

[vivek67]

Hi,
Why has the place been changed? And where does one shift now from Tay ho to be close to the pick up area?
Vivek

[flyhighfast]

There is nothing to do in Long Bien, the new pick up place for Vietnam Airlines.
How can an expat live there?

And don't believe the B.su..kers on Rishworth advertisement video , they just arrived in Vietnam, new comers, they don't know anything, maybe they paid them or promised them an upgrade, who knows...

:ugh::ugh:

[framer]

And don't believe the B.su..kers on Rishworth advertisement video , they just arrived in Vietnam, new comers, they don't know anything,
I don't think so bud, I started there with Rishworth in 2009. They were average to deal with. No real problems.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Ya... Rishworth are not newcomers to VNA. They've been, according to their website, been supplying pilots for over 10 years.

I'd agree with above poster... They have been ok for me so far. Although I notice they haven't updated their comment about getting a van ride to HAN from the Sheraton yet.

Kap



I don't think so bud, I started there with Rishworth in 2009. They were average to deal with. No real problems.

[Kossack]

Dear F/O's A-330! ASAP!
Who is going for screening with VNA in SGN next week?
Please,send a PM.
Thanks.

[rsajlk]

Received from Rishworth an advise that Vietnam Air has resumed A330 Capt hiring. Can anyone confirm this. Thanks all..

[Dihedral1]

If Rishworth have advised you, I think that is all the confirmation you need.

However a quick check of Flight Global, shows Parc says the same thing..

http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401416285/a330-captain-vietnam-airlines-new-rosters/

[Kapitanleutnant]

Wonder what's new about the roster they mentioned? Been the same 6/2 for a long time.... Or am I mistaken?

Kap

[Dihedral1]

Kap,

It might be that before they used to advertise the possibility of 4/4, 5/3 or 6/2.
With them asking guys to volunteer to reduce their rotation cycles from 6/2 to 8/2 etc..
The new roster might be solidly 6/2 or greater IE 8/2, 10/2 etc
I stand to be corrected but I doubt anyone has gotten 4/4 or 5/3 in the past year..anyone?

[Thumb War]

Apparently 6/2 is still the standard, with 6/3 possibly available on request and a bunch of rotations which see you working more also available on request. Due to manpower shortage I hear.

What's the latest with getting to work in Hanoi? If you live in one of the more popular expat areas and don't have your own transport, what does it cost to get to and from work each trip?

TW

[Intruder One]

Got this package 2 days ago from a agent "new approved terms".If correct it seems they may be making some changes.They may be having some trouble for DEC A-320 as I'm sure guys are bailing for the 350 and 787.Anyway it said 6/2 was still the standard package and Saigon and Hanoi were both available for base.Is this correct or just some agent hype to get you signed up.








1 week OFF
2 weeks OFF
3 weeks OFF
4 weeks OFF
4 weeks ON
$11,600.53
$9,466.80
$7,939.63
$6,797.33
5 weeks ON
$12,133.20
$10,227.31
$8,798.67
$7,687.16
6 weeks ON
$12,514.99
$10,800.00
$9,466.80
$8,398.40
8 weeks ON
$13,023.02
$11,600.53
$9,228.68
$8,258.80
10 weeks ON
$13,346.31
$12,133.20
$11,107.90
$10,227.31

[Intruder One]

Sorry about the cut and paste it seems to have spread it out a bit......

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks for that, Intruder!!

It's "doable"!! :-)

Were there other scales for the 777 by chance?

K

[320busdriver]

Thanks Intruder - I guess for the 330 you can add maybe 2k to that - anyone know the routes the 330 fly out of Hanoi
Cheers

[Dihedral1]

Seems you have gotten sucked in by the smoke n mirrors. A cursory glance reveals that the standard 6/2 package is still $10.8 per month (circa 2008) all the other variations have always been available with crew rostering, but the money hasn't improved. They are selling you a 6 for a 9.
Oh and the 330 is less than 1k better than the 320...::ok:
Nothing new here mate!:mad:
Would love to know which agency has sunk to this deceptive recruitment method.. Do tell:D

(See my post April 14, nobody is getting 4/4, 4/3, 5/4 the rest are just variations IE 6/3 $9.4K same as 4/2, 4/1 $11.6K same as 8/2, guys have negotiated these sort of rosters for years, but all predicated around the base 6/2 salary)

[Intruder One]

Thxs Dihedral for the info..........sent you a PM

[air_cowboy]

Hi,

Looking for some info on the assessment for the 320.... Whats are the sim, interview and technical test like ...

Please share!!

Cheers

[pezetaroi]

Air Cowboy,

Read my post on page 53, as far as I know, it's still the same... ;-)

[vivek67]

HI,
I am interested in joining VNA but a friend of mine who joined recently mentioned that getting a work permit is almost impossible....is it true because without it my salary would become taxable in my country....India

[320rider]

Hi friends,
Does anyone know how local medical check (in Vietnam) deal with candidates who has eye surgery (LASIK)?
One of the question in the questionnaire form about having eye surgery and I have got some hesitation about answer.
Thanks for answers.

[NG708]

See that the agencies are again advertising A320 positions with VNA and that there is talk for faster upgrades, as mentioned on Rishworths site.

Any Hanoi based guys advise on how long the commute to the import is now and where the expats accomodation tends to be?

[pezetaroi]

Depending on where you live in Hanoi you can either choose to take a cab or drive your motorbyke to the 919 and then take the free shuttle to/from the airport. Anyway many of us prefer to go directly to the airport in taxi, round trip is around 13-14 usd. An average time would be around 25 minutes, usually there are no traffic jams...

[mach 84]

You can call or sms to ABC taxi, 098 320 27 19, they have a flat rate of VND 180.000 to the airport from the city, if you go to 919 you pay meter fare, from the sheraton area about 100.000, on the way back from the airport no flat rate, to the area around the sheraton about 320.000;
if you decide to go from the airport to 919 after arriving in the morning, be aware that the bridge over the red river is closed for taxis from 6 to 9 am.
the taxi has to detour, which costs about 200.000 from 919 to the area around sheraton. so it is worth to spend 100.000 more to be home in 25 min instead of 1+ hours.

[FoxForce44]

Hello Folks!

I'm looking for informations about the Vietnam Airlines F/O contract for A320. Would like to know

1- (and more important) the upgrade thing is real?

2- Is the company good to work? Sallary? Roster?

3- Is the city is good to live?

4- Are you happy my fellow airmen?

5- What Broker do you guys recommend?


Waiting for the answer...thanks !

[BlackandWhite2000]

As an expat in VNA 321 for more than 6 years, I will try to tell you the "FACT", instead of my "personal feeling".

1.Yes, expat FO do get upgrade in 321. I will say, if you are willing to stay in VNA for 3 years (or more) as 321 FO, and you dont have any serious viloation of CAAV, FOM....etc, then your chance of getting the upgrade is 80%. You lose the 20% chance mainly because "they just dont like you".

2.There is no answer to "VNA is good or not to work for". For salary you should ask your agency. Just keep it in mind, the salary has not been improved for more than 6 years, it stays the same from at least 2009. Roster in 321 is a nightmare, this is both a "FACT" and my "personal feeling", and I beleieve more than 95% expat in 321, CAP or FO, will agree with me. Very often, you fly close to, or even over, the maxium duty time, followed by a minimum rest. Very often, you get schedule cnanges. Even on your DO, you will get a call from company and they will ask politely: "I know its your DO, but can you fly today due to ...."

3.If all you are looking for is cheap food/beer/romance...anything fast and cheap, you want nothing else, then you will be happy in VN, as an expat "male" pilot. If you want more, for example: quality art exhibition or dance performance, a big park you can wander around for 30 minutes or have a picnic without worring about the air pollution....then, you will find the options for your free time in VN are very limited.

4.My "happiness level" is VNA is getting lower and lower every year in 321. This is a personal thing, but I believe at least 70% expat in 321 will agree with me. Mainly because the tiresome schedule, and also the way Vietnamese people dealing with things.

5.Agecies are more or less the same, really.

Simply put, if you are dying for a chance of command upgrade within 3~5 years, and you are willing to pay around 50000-60000 USD, including the training and bond and 2~3 months unpaid, then VNA is for you. If you are looking for a long-term career, VNA is not a good option.

And one last thing, keep this in mind please, because you are probably thinking about getting a fast command and leave! You pay for the upgrade by yourself, but still it is possible to fail the upgrade, and you can not get your money back! Keep this in mind please, this is serious! It is not "I am paying for it, so you will let me pass" training. In 2014, at least 2 expat FO fail the 321 upgrade trining.

You have been warned!

[BAe 146-100]

What is the chance of HCM base on the 321? Can you request it , or is it fixed Hanoi?

If no answer on here feel free to pm...

[BlackandWhite2000]

If you are 321 CAP, you need to deal with the agent, insisting on HCM base, otherwise dont sign the contract. It is possible you will get it.

If you are 321 FO, not sure it works or not.

[Dihedral1]

For what it is worth, BW2000 is fairly accurate.

For the FOs, there is a pay to fly scheme coming, which, should help accelerate salaries lower.

For Capts, some agencies are advertising 350/787 within 6 months, maybe a few expats already on widebodies will see that. But with 25 more A321 coming, doubt it will be as advertised, not saying there won't be opportunities, but highly doubt it will be so quick.

[pezetaroi]

Although B&W post is quite accurate, I do believe he is based in HCM. Hanoi, as far as I've seen, offers a better quality of life than HCM. Obviously if you're into partying and girls, this is not the place to be, but on the other hand it is not as loud and caotic. Hanoi, in my experience has a much more calm rythm of life. You can actually go for a walk in downtown and enjoy it and there are several areas where you can live and make the most of it. You don't have as many changes in the roster as the guys down in HCM, the ride to the airport, if you live in Ciputra or Tay Ho is around 20-25 minutes without to worry about any traffic jams, also you don't have to deal with daily +TSRA or heavy ATC traffic everyday... ;-)

Yes, we do fly constantly, but hey, who has a dream roster nowdays? I brought my family to live with me and I'm glad to be at home almost every day.

Becoming an expat will always require an effort to cope with the culture you are new into, that my friend, applies to any country you decide to go. Things WILL be different and you have to be aware of that, if you're not prepare to do so, stay at home. Local guys do have different customs, but I can assure you that if you're mind set you will have no problem dealing with this.

If you don't want to deal with agencies, try out a direct application to Jetstar or Vietjet, which have a bigger expat workforce and also offer command opportunities.

Hope it helps... ;-)

[Raptor69]

Does VNA has planned in the long term do flights to the United States? :confused:

[pezetaroi]

They do have plans to fly to the USA, in the long term that is...

[LindbergB767]

When I worked for Vietnam Airlines in 1994 THEY were planning to fly to USA ........

[Kapitanleutnant]

Vietnam is classified as Category 2 from the US FAA regarding safety issues. This means (and I stand to be corrected) they can not start any new services to the US. If they already flew there, they could continue flying but could not add new destinations.

I would think…. with the big purchase of 19 B787's that this situation was discussed while the VIP's were in the US recently to take delivery of the first 787, and it will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. Seems to me there would be quite a market to say LAX and/or SFO. I know in the LA area (Orange County) there is a very large and thriving Vietnamese community. My guess is the demand would be there.

Time will tell…

Kap

[Greenlights]

And one last thing, keep this in mind please, because you are probably thinking about getting a fast command and leave! You pay for the upgrade by yourself, but still it is possible to fail the upgrade, and you can not get your money back! Keep this in mind please, this is serious! It is not "I am paying for it, so you will let me pass" training. In 2014, at least 2 expat FO fail the 321 upgrade trining.

I confirm, not only VNA do that but some others airline in Vietnam... ;)

[bvzA320]

Hi guys! Any body past the interview and sim recently? I will appreciate any help and info! Please, PM!
Thanks!

[320busdriver]

Anybody pass the 330 screening lately - any help appreciated - questions, sim profiles.Cheers

[airplanedriver]

Please PM me if any of u require the 'Real' answers, i will be happy to assist, but if u have a stable job, pls dont waste your time applying here, its easily the most screwed up company i have ever worked for

[avoka]

Hi guys
Anybody can shed some light how can I apply for pilots position in according to this link
Flight Crew Recruitment | Vietnam Airlines (http://www.vietnamairlines.com/en/careers/Welcome%20to%20the%20largest%20job%20search%20web%20of%20Vie tnam%20Airlines)
I tryed to send some letters to two mail adresses,from this link,but all letters were returned back to me "due to wrong adress".:ugh:
Is there other way to apply for F/O position for VNA.(Richworth doesn't have such offers for A-320fleet)
Anybody have faced with such situation?
Many thanks
Safe flights

[Top of drinks]

[QUOTE=airplanedriver;9122881]Please PM

How was the interview process ?

[vwm737]

hello, as a cpt 320, u are stuck in 320,or u will have the opportunity to do the ccq330 ?

[pezetaroi]

hello, as a cpt 320, u are stuck in 320,or u will have the opportunity to do the ccq330 ?

We are all still flying the 321, plans for the 330/350/787 transfers are still not revealed...

[sonicbum]

Hi guys,

strongly considering VNA as DEC A320 mainly for the commuting roster. Have been flying in the Gulf region now for nearly 10 years and looking forward to commute with Europe which is impossible from where I am. The question is : are they offering any 4x4 patterns ? Don't mind the base, I'm looking for time off. Could eventually make a 4x2 or 5x3 but aim is the 4x4.
Any advice/input appreciated

Cheers.

[ni si ni no]

No matter what the agencies say. The maximum time off you will get is 6x3. Some guys over the years got 5x3, none as of right now has 4x4.

Cheers

[sonicbum]

Hi xhamster, thanks a lot for your reply. Can I ask you what's your agency ? Have you already done your assessment and medicals ? Any feedback ?
Thanks !

[LimaVictor]

Xhamster, I have applied via FCI for the 78 dec job in February and still had not received any invitation for an interview. How and via which agency you got hired if u don't mind to tell pls?
I am getting kind of pissed off with my agency :-(
I'm also in AUH btw
Cheers
LV

[LimaVictor]

Xhamster are u A320 or B787? EY as well?

[ia1166]

I would try to get the pattern you want before you sign.
4 on 2 off does not get you a free ticket for every rotation. You are limited to the same tickets as 6/2.
5/3 4/4 not available. Those who are on it will not get it back if they change.
6/3 is the best option for time off. No free travel days so if you are travelling to europe you lose 2 days travelling every rotation. You will also get hammered with no days off for your 4 weeks on. Just the 36 hours in 7 days rule.

Its not as rosy as it looks. Many guys leave as they didn't research it first.

[sonicbum]

Hi ia1166,

thanks for the info. Is the schedule somewhat manageable on the A321 for the time you spend there or is it a complete headache ? I spent 10 years in the GCC and the working conditions here are getting harder every single day so I would like to go for a job that still gives you a reasonably healthy lifestyle.
Thanks

[ni si ni no]

7 days consecutive is the norm then 2 off, many 4 sect days some 2 sector days. Atr´s to be operated by a separate airline so 321 does most of those flights!

Depends what would you consider by manageable.....

[Juhie10]

Hi guys . I have an interview with veitnam airlines . Can you please tell what jind of questions to expect and what all do they ask? Help

[Panam85]

Hi gents,
I've been interested in the gig at VNA for some time & just had a good read through this post. Thanks for the insightful info. Presently I'm on a permanent gig with fairly stable rosters, decent route network & overall a fairly easy going operation.

I've been interested in the expat commuting lifestyle for sometime but my biggest concern is regarding contract renewal. My present company has in the past, let our contract pilots go suddenly due to the prevailing conditions at the time & also suddenly recalled them back. My question regarding VNA is do they renew contracts at the end of the term? Have there been any serious issues in the past regarding renewal of contracts? Have they been known to suddenly terminate contracts due to company requirements? How long have the longest serving expats been there for? Also how is the staff travel/entitlements for spouses/families?

I'm looking at joining on the 330 fleet & any insight on how the present operation is with a 6/2 contract is would also be appreciated.

Cheers
Panam

[Cak]

They renew contracts at the end but there are some cases when they just terminate contracts, even before the end. In February they terminated contracts for few guys on 330 and after 3 weeks they called them back. Presently, they are terminating some guys on ATR.
Staff travel is a joke. Return ticket to FRA costs around 600$ (it's a standby ticket) and you can buy full fare ticket with Qatar or Turkish for about 700$ if you book little bit in advance. Sometimes you can even book full fare ticket with VNA for the same price.
Regarding flying, 330 fleet is the best one and it's easy life, flying around 50-60 hours

[BAe 146-100]

Hanoi is quiet and more laid back then Saigon, but for the majority of people, no one really wants to be based in Hanoi but most people when they come here they tend to stay instead of requesting to go to SGN. However asking SGN folks to come to Hanoi is like drawing blood out of a stone!!

SGN is where all the fun is at!! Not too many better places in Asia for single (or married guys, if you get what I am saying......)

[320wonder]

Hi Gents,

for VN job, is it better to apply through the contact given on the airline's own website, or through an agency?

thanks.

cheers

[Cak]

You cannot apply directly, only through agencies

[avoka]

Hi guys!
Has anybody ever faced with FCI to apply for VNA?
I'm so interested in some info regarding their dealings
Please feel free PM to me
Safe flights

[allatp]

Hi everyone!
Does anybody know the name or type of test that VNA is applying to candidates?
Thanks a lot for the info!!
Safe flying!!

[Tatarin]

Hi everyone!
Does anybody know the name or type of test that VNA is applying to candidates?
Thanks a lot for the info!!
Safe flying!!

Hi!

I have been recently on screening. For the test study the smart cockpit, general aerodynamic, general meteorology, TAF METAR SIGMET from Jeppesen.

For oral part :memory items, limitations, take off performance , system as fuel, electrical etc.

Good luck!

[RemoveB4Flght]

Good morning all,

Seeking some information from VNA pilots on direct entry 787 captain position (typed and current). Basics such as which city they are based, which routes they fly, roster quality, and what patterns are being offered right now.

[Flyboy_SG]

They seem to advertise 3 year upgrade for 777/787 Expatriate FOs. How true is that? Hard to believe.

[izu]

Where did you see that ?

[pfvspnf]

Do they pay to fly ? Hiring people straight from Baltic aviation academy ? I wouldn't be surprised st all

[Luke SkyToddler]

Flyboy, they have been known to upgrade people within less than 2 years of joining but upgrade is always on the A321, they don't do right to left on the widebodies

[Flyboy_SG]

Thanks Luke.

[BAe 146-100]

Vietnam=$$$

If have $$$ can do everything, simples.

[Flyboy_SG]

And how long to widebody after left seat 321?

[Bus Junkie]

$60,000 USD

[ni si ni no]

And how long to widebody after left seat 321?

Some of the guys been there more than 15 years and it didn't happen. Expect to retire in the aircraft you join.
The brokers will tell you otherwise of course :D

[ia1166]

And how long to widebody after left seat 321?

Some of the guys been there more than 15 years and it didn't happen. Expect to retire in the aircraft you join.
The brokers will tell you otherwise of course :D

Not true. Some of the long timers are not prepared to part with their cash! Its the principle.

[ia1166]

Not true. Some of the long timers are not prepared to part with their cash! Its the principle.

Actually you are incorrect on both points.

All the pilots who have been here 15 years are on the 330 or triple. With the possible exception of 1 a320

All have fleet changed in one way or another.

All the long term 321 skippers have been offered a fleet change if they want.

[ni si ni no]

Ok I´ll change my words then, all of the Capt that have been here for more than 9 years still are in the same type!

We indeed have been offered a fleet change, sure! But did it happen?

[ia1166]

Maybe you need a bit of patience. The 350/787 hasnt been here long. The locals have had all the first slots. There has also been a lot of negotiating with the contract companies about the fees.

If its like the 330 then you will be interviwed. You will not automaticaaly get a fleet change amd it wont happen tomorrow.

To be honest if you are that angry you may be dissapointed. There are plenty of 321 guys who passed and pid for the 330. I expect it will happen to those who pass and pay for the 350. But if you have a questionable reputation it wont help you at all.

[ia1166]

So just to confirm. Your comment of 15 years and still on type, has now become 9 years and been offered but no date yet.

Quite a large disparity between those 2 statements.

Maybe check the attitude a bit. It will be noticed at work.

[ni si ni no]

nah! don´t worry bout me! Attitude´s fine :ok:

[ia1166]

I am sure it is. Something to consider is that until they have replacement skippers on the 321, they wont be fleet changing anybody any time soon. More captains joining the 321 fleet, more fleet crossovers. Simple math. Its not an upgrade by the way, its a fleet change.

So making disparaging remarks and putting new skippers off from joining wont be helping your aspirations at all.

Its shooting yourself in the foot so to speak.

You should maybe think about the bigger picture.

Or if you dont like it here....

[EagleA25]

Hey everyone,
So just to get this right, in VNA you might get a shot at 350/787 BUT you'll pay your upgrade, correct? Or is a bond the only thing you'll have to comply with?

[ia1166]

Its constantly changing but the principle is you have a bond held for 3 years, you pay for training and you are not paid until you start line training.

It can add up. There are usually enough volunteers so its up to you if you are offered. The deal is offered. Take it or leave it. The next guy down on the seniority will take your spot.

It is what it is. Its the contract world. If you want free type ratings you need to stay away from contract work.

[talk2jamesbond]

Hello Everyone, I just got offered B787 NTR FO Position, I would like to get info about Assessment, If someone know about details about Assessment (Interview ? SIM ?)
Please kindly send me PM,
I really appreciated, Thank you very much for your help friends :)

[PILOTHEAD]

Talk2

Are they still requiring a 30,000usd cash bond out your pocket if hired?

[talk2jamesbond]

Just in case I would like to try after contract they said refund... PILOTHEAD would you have any info about assessment ?? If you know, Pls send me PM Thank you very much.

[Flyboy_SG]

Yes pilot head

[PILOTHEAD]

I have no idea about the assessment, and have talked to one of the brokers who told me 30 grand. That's coming in as a current NG captain with over 5000 pic with only ntr first officer positions available in the 78. I can come back later when they come up with something worth my time.

[safelife]

Vietnam contracts offer mostly 6 weeks on, 2 off, and pay less than 3 on, 3 off in China.
Hanoi air pollution levels are on par with many Chinese cities.
Leaving the shorter training phase as the maybe only reason to choose Vietnam over China.

[kimono1950]

It is official, VNA does not upgrade expats W-B F/Os for a PIC position on the A-321 anymore. They prefer upgrading,low time vietnameses,who are able to keep the gear down for 1H, after taking off .

My advice for the people who is looking for VNA, stay clear of this so called national carrier .

[safelife]

Leaving the gear down for an hour? Why would one do that. Limits the cruise altitude as well :rolleyes:

[kimono1950]

Unbelievable but true, the 2 geniuses did left the gear down for 1H, before some other VNA airplane told them the LDG was down !

[Bus Junkie]

It happened departing narita. They couldn't understand why they missed a climb restriction.

[safelife]

They probably couldn't understand each other either. Pretty loud once you speed up.

[Cak]

3 of them were in the cockpit, departing from Fukuoka

[ZFT]

3 of them were in the cockpit, departing from Fukuoka

But not as bad as not pressurising an A350!

[kimono1950]

With the prime minister on bord. He does not want to be flying with vietnameses in the cockpit , anymore .

[kimono1950]

I forgot, they almost destroyed a brand new A-350, 1 week after receiving it. Hopefully an Airbus TRI was on the RHS to avoid the disaster. The popgun on charge came from the ATR fleet.

NB : an 787 have been AOG for 2 week, because the vietnameses Topgun forgot to set the parking brake in some japanese airport .

[ZFT]

With the prime minister on bord. He does not want to be flying with vietnameses in the cockpit , anymore .

Wasn't it the Minister of Transport?

[kimono1950]

Who cares ? :rolleyes:

[sahidahm]

Kimono 1950, Why are shooting such BIG BULL****?
Are you frustrated because you fail VNA interview for the upgrade? ( THANKS GOD)
IT is not true that VNA does not upgrade expat anymore!!!
Unless you are kimono 1950...

[kimono1950]

Bulh**** ????

Dear all
Follow VNA planning about the number of A/C of A330 fleet in next year 2017, we will keep only 4 A/C until 2019. There fore not so many flights for you, VNA suggest you transfer to A350 ASAP because no more change for FO upgrade to Capt A321. Please register to move A350 with Ms L-i before 30th November 2016. ( Interview on 06 and 13 December 2016).
Thank you very much.
Ms L-i

there is the email received by all expat FOs

Now who is the bull**** artist ?

[safelife]

Why do you need to apply, do an interview to move from 330 to 350?
That's the same type rating after all...

[kimono1950]

Not in VNA, they need your cash ! They want you to do a full type rating ???? !!!!!!

[safelife]

That's weird. In China they even want to fly 330+350 mixed fleet. Fly 330 today, 350 tomorrow.

[kimono1950]

Like in a good communism country, VNA likes the US $.

[safelife]

Back to the topic; how's the profile of an A321 crew schedule? Lots of layovers? Longer or shorter flights?

[duyen]

I was just wondering if that sour faced jerk off Ms Giang is still working in rostering?

[safelife]

Thank you. And I thought my outfit was bad at that.

[kimono1950]

VNA is runned by incompetents. All the B-777 expats have been fired , at the same moment 8 A-350 are coming and no SFOs want to go there. ( 55 000 US$ to pay ).

People stay away from this low grade so call flag carrier.

[kimono1950]

For the gents who were thinking joining VNA, the latest is the following :

All B-777 expats have been fired
No more upgrading to PIC for the expats
More than 70% of the A-330 expat crew will be fired
35 A-321 expat FOs have been fired
The P2F is the norm for the new expats
100 vietnameses cadets will take your RHS
All the low experienced viet FOs will take your LHS

After that, good luck for the agencies to find new idiots to come to this low grade crap ! :ugh::mad:

[4runner]

They're absolutely famous for that. The Thpanith are experts too. Think I'm joking? Make a random posting about offering an "opportunity" for FO's on something shiny and a self-sponsored, i.e. P2F. Your inbox will fill up...

[BAe 146-100]

The 330s and 777s are still out there flying, find it strange that pilots on those fleets would not be offered to continue on a different fleet...

[kimono1950]

I heard, one guy did pay 45 000 US$ for the B-787 and after 6 month got fired to be replaced by one viet topgun.

[seventhreedriver]

https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-and-services/career/pilots#/

Open day in SGN and HAN

[Kapitanleutnant]

I find it actually a bit hard to believe the 777 expats were fired! C'mon now....
There were guys there with more than 20 years (maybe retired) but my guess is they went over to the 787 or just left on their own as they didn't want to pay the money for the 787.

But fired??? Don't believe it....

K

[kimono1950]

But it is true ! I have talked to a 777 captain , whom has confirmed , all expats have been fired, including himself :mad::ugh::eek:

Only one 787 coming in 2017, no seats available for foreigners, only for low experienced viets.

That is the VNA way.:rolleyes:

[ia1166]

Fired is a bit strong. They have been let go under contract conditions.

Mostly they are over 60 and the quota for over 60s on the 787 is already met. The fleet is finished here. So the pilots ate no longer required.

Its the contract world.

If you dont like it you, vote with your feet. Kimono.

[ia1166]

I think its a strong message for all contract pilots. Stay on a viable fleet, like the 320. Keep an eye on the future and dont get caught out on an age/ type related issue.

Its not fair, its not good, but its fact.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Thanks for the clarification, ia1166.

I did learn today that 9 expat captains and 5 expat FO's on the Triple were let go under contractual conditions and that anyone over 58 (?) was not retained (age 60). They were effectively furloughed/laid off.... but not fired.

Workers get fired for doing something wrong or illegal against a company regulation. This was not the case.

K

[kimono1950]

Laid off, fired.... what the **** ? They are looking for a job now !
I do confirm , all expats, Cpt or FO, have been showed the door and soon it will be the 330 guys !