Vietnam Airlines (info please)

[frank einstein]

Same question from me guys living out there....
Lifestyle..6 on 2 off... How hard does one work on the 320/321 fleet?
How easy is it to plan your return to the UK via Paris for the 2 off?
Is there much chance of getting a few beers in whilst out there?(should have been number one on the list!!)
Do i keep my UK licence current at my own expense and time?
Salary paid into an Isle of Man bank account... Do most guys utilise this service and are there any restrictions on length of stay in the UK to avoid paying uk tax?
Do many guys house share to cut costs?
What is the turnover re numbers who attend screening v those actually offered the contract?
Do many folk find it's not for them and quit soon after arrival or is this an opportunity not to be missed where a current employer is offering long career breaks( with a tax free lump sum) and therefore a "get out of jail free" card to return to a seniority list after a few years??
I appreciate, in advance,and look forward to your replies...Please!!
Cheers.

[harlock]

Posted on June 2008, I don´t know if things have changed..

A normal week has one or two days OFF(recently), so assuming five days of work:

Day 1. SGN-HKG-SGN
Day 2. SGN-PNH-VTE-HAN Layover in Hanoi (5 star hotel)
Day 3. HAN-VTE-PNH-SGN
Day 4. SGN-REP-SGN-HUI-SGN
Day 5. SGN-DAD-SGN-KUL-SGN
Day 6. OFF
Day 7. OFF

Generally all day flights, home at night.

[jumpdrive]

this is for 320

[priority-left]

hi all
anybody know what are the chances of a contract a320 fo getting an upgrade.....if the answer is yes..how long
just looking for someones best guess
thanks

[jumpdrive]

@ least a wait of 2 or 3 years

[AERO75]

any reason, why vna is not searching FO´s for ATR??

best regards

jo

[Lost in Saigon]

They have a Cadet program for Vietnamese Nationals.

[jumpdrive]

anything's possible!!!!!...........!

there is already a French f/o flying on the ATR........(the only expat 1)

in a very rare case......................(in the 320 are maybe 2 that ive heard)

he started working in HAN collecting data
now he does that during week &
only flies on the weekends

he paid his rating
has a 1 year contract
and gets paid peanuts ........less than 2K

:ok:

[azlee_19]

i m wondering if VNA ever employ muslim pilot, coz rumors say they dont, any say?

[harlock]

Any ideas on how many pilots they are looking to hire for the A320 fleet?
What about the pass/fail rates on sim assesments
:ok:

[Sox0104]

some 320 capts/fos having type rating for 330 (12 local,4 foreigner capts), 2 capt leaving, so i guest they need at least same number

[German Corner]

Hello!
any German guys flying for HVN ?

asking because I really really would like to join them and I am considered

...or maybe shotlisted or eventually...
I need some tax recommendation (going there with family) and I also need some info about health insurance options for the family (Allianz, Bupa etc.) Thank you all and you are free to send me a email
Best Regards


Your New Board Member

[superced]

I will appreciate if somebody can describe me how a typical 6 weeks on roster on a320 looks like. how many hours a month during the full month ON, how many sectors a day??

thanks for that

[CAVnotOK]

Hi Guys, can someone please post, or PM the kind of roster you can expect on the 777.

Also, any Aussie 777 F/Os.......how often during your 6,5 or 4 weeks on do you get to layover in SYD or MEL.

Many thanks.

[Khaosai]

Hi,

i heard a whisper that the B777 F/O recruitment has been put on hold for the time being.

Rgds.

[longobard]

anyone knows if A330 recruitment is going on, or Parc/Rishworth/Direct are only collecting applications wishing that VAC is starting to hire again?

[Barefootsailing]

Looks like the recruiters are advertising interview for A320 F/O this month. I have my stuff in with two different recruiters, 15,000+ hours, 1500 SIC A320 with a PIC type.

Haven't heard a thing from anybody. Anybody else have any information??

Thanks,

barefootsailing

[Real Captain]

Yes people, can confirm that they have started giving dates for A 330 SIM and ground school. Anyone who has some program infos / questionaire regarding interview or SIM. THANK'S !!

[jaarrgh]

Adverts for the 320 seemed to give a start date for early January and sim in December. Some of December has happened and January is not far off. Anyone had any screening or start dates yet. Thanks.

[varigflier]

Rishworth and climbto350 are still advertising for the 777 F/O position. You might want to get in touch with them.

[powderkeg]

Gentlemen,

If I may, does anybody know if there are any foreign line capts on the A330 with VN ? I'm hoping to get a sim evaluation soon and would appreciate any info on simulator profiles for A330 capt. evaluation. Any word on the typical schedule they fly every week, total time each month, etc. will apprecite any info on these. Many thanks, safe and happy flying

powderkeg :)

[bonobo6669]

Hello Gents...

Does anyone knows near future dates for VN A330 Captain screenings...

Happy Landings to all of you... :ok:

[Fubaliera]

Who Cares How Many Options You Have

[jaarrgh]

Well its gone from hurry, hurry to very silent? The agency said it was due to the trainers being too busy to have screenings rostered. Don't how much truth there is in it. Wonder when they will get all excited next??! Life is one delightful roller-coaster.:rolleyes:

[Honeyman]

Parc emailed me today.. $10,700/month. The catch?? 10% pay cut for the first year!!! It never ceases to amaze me. Anyone know the status of their hiring? specifically for 320...

[Mat Kilau]

I believe if you are the pilot hired through contract agencies you are the " contractor ", I also think you mean " accepting " Captains for now.

[Dream Land]

He's a pilot, cut him some slack...:}

[UALSIC]

With the amount of flying they are talking about going down this year - you can BET they will need some A320 FOs as well and soon.

Hang in there - also if one agency says they are only hiring CPTs why not inquire at the other two?

[varigflier]

There are still ads for F/Os as well.........

[Adrian Cronauer]

Parc emailed me today.. $10,700/month. The catch?? 10% pay cut for the first year!!! It never ceases to amaze me. Anyone know the status of their hiring? specifically for 320...

Piss piss bitch moan. Pay is $9630 per month for the first year. Get though that and prove yourself; you get a 10% increase the following year. Does that make it easier to swallow?

"...it never ceases to amaze me...Anyone know of their hiring..." Hmmm, didn't we meet somewhere in 89?

[Adrian Cronauer]

If I may, does anybody know if there are any foreign line capts on the A330 with VN ?

Are you joking? Any foreign captains at VNA? Of the thousands of postings in this forum, have you seen ONE posting written in Vietnamese?

ATR, A320,321,330, 777, and even the two little f&cker F70's all have foreign captains.

[Adrian Cronauer]

I will appreciate if somebody can describe me how a typical 6 weeks on roster on a320 looks like.

Simple. It looks like this... :bored: and... :ugh:, followed by ...:yuk:

[Duh]

Starskate, you tired of KZ ? To cold up there ?

[Adrian Cronauer]

I started there but never got off the ground.... They had a change in operations for the A320 and decided they did not need so many A320 pilots.... last one hired first one off as they say.

What a load of rubbish! Would that be you Pierre? Or is it one of the other chaps who showed up and couldn't pass the line-check?

VNA is hiring over 140 pilots this year alone. Can't find enough "qualified" chaps. The future looks good here mate.

[Mactor]

I've been offered a screening for A320 captain position. Any one care to give me some info on the sim profile and what life in general is like in Ho Chi Minh.
Thanks. M

[guemes]

Any whispers about 777 hiring anytime soon?

[PappyJ]

There's saying in Africa that fits quite well in Vietnam - all of Asia for that matter....

"If you come here without patience, you'll soon learn it. But come with patience; you'll soon loose it!"

[moral17]

hi everyone

i know i'm not the only one asking and will appreciate any answer

thinking of changing lifestyle and wondering to move to vietnam

so far i'm quite confused with too many infos found on the web

is there anyone out there who could tell me more about living and working in vietnam.

wondering to send my application for f/o position on the a320 fleet

actually current with more than 2000 hours on type ( more than 5000 hours flying )

thanks very much for spending some time with this

see u

[Dream Land]

too many infos found on the web

is there anyone out there who could tell me more about living and working in vietnam You say you have too much information, but you would like to have more.. well I'm afraid it won't e different the second time around, please be more specific if there is some conflicting remarks.

In a nut shell, it's a good contract and VietNam is a great place to live.

[PappyJ]

i know i'm not the only one asking and will appreciate any answer
And an answer you will have

thinking of changing lifestyle and wondering to move to vietnam


Life's short. Stop wondering; start doing!

so far i'm quite confused with too many infos found on the web


I feel that way with dating sites on the web

is there anyone out there who could tell me more about living and working in vietnam.

My guess? Probably yes!

wondering to send my application for f/o position on the a320 fleet

I'm gonna sound like a broken record (DVD for you youngins')..... Life's short. Stop wondering; start doing!


actually current with more than 2000 hours on type ( more than 5000 hours flying )

"Actually", currently having a bit of fun at your expense!

thanks very much for spending some time with this


You're welcome. I enjoyed our time together. ;)

[moral17]

thanks a lot

u made me laugh...as much as i did i hope.....


ciao

[Luke Darkstar]

Powderkeg, you have got 1 PN

[bmwm5]

Who Are The Current Agencies In Charge Of Vn Other Than Rishworth,parc And Direct Personel And Who Gives The Best Deal Currently?thank You

[Dream Land]

Who Are The Current Agencies In Charge Of Vn Other Than Rishworth,parc And Direct Personel And Who Gives The Best Deal Currently?thank You There is also Euro-Pacific. You must do your own homework on who gives the best deal, there are many opinions about this subject, factors include items such as:

1. Do they have any screening dates?
2. What is the salary?
3. When does your full time salary begin?
4. What insurance is supplied?
5. When is your salary paid to you?
6. Does your agency charge you a fee to xfer your salary to your bank?
7. Are you free to use a bank of your choice, or must you use a designated bank?
8. In case you have some questions or problems, are there any local reps to help you?

Good luck, :ok:

[tungsteno]

Can someone please give an example of an A330 FO roster? destinations, how many nights out, sectors, and block hours per month in average...
always two pilots or augmented crew with proper rest?
any comments on crm and sop in the cockpit? is it western standard or...?
thanks

[skytrek21]

Hi Guys,

I recently got selected to go to Vietnam as an A320 F/O. I also got selected with Wataniya. I am a little confused as to where to go. I have the standard contract with Vietnam....the 6 on 2 off and the pay. Does Vietnam have an upgrade policy for A320 F/O's. If anyone has insight of that, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

sky

[NVpilot]

Of course it's great if you can go and experience each of the locations, if you are a single guy from the states, my guess would be that you would enjoy the life style here in Vietnam much better than the ME.

I would do whatever is necessary to speak to one of the crews in Kuwait, do your homework. Good luck.

[skytrek21]

Thanks NVPilot....as you said I am in the process to speak to one of the crews in Kuwait. At the moment I am flying in India. Please let me know if there's a chance for 320 F/O's to upgrade to Capt's. Thanks.

Regards
sky

[longobard]

for the guys in VAC:

1)what are the A330 layovers?
2)are A330 rosters based on many night flights?
3)average A330 monthly block/duty hours?

thanks!

[shak]

Aloha Gents...its there a fellow 777 guy at VN who could PM me....i got a few questions....tnx a lot....n keep it safe....
Shak

[youwantmetodowhat]

Hey you guys,

My buddy just sent me this earlier and I thought of you guys....God damn!!! Forget VN, China's where the moneys at.

Happy landings
Y



New Job Vacancy
>
> We have recently received a new job vacancy posting on Flightdeck Recruitment which may be of interest to you.
>
> A318/319/320/321 Captain - China
>
> FDR Job ID: 4590
>
> Posted: June 5th 2010
>
> Maximum age for applicants: 55
>
> Type-rated pilots only may apply.
>
> Minimum hours (on type): 500
> Minimum hours (total): 3000
>
> Airbus A320 Captain
>
> Our Client, a growing airline operating in China, requires for immediate and upcoming employment 55 Airbus A320 Captains.
>
> It offers an updated and unprecedented remuneration package that is the best package currently on the market whatever the aircraft type.
>
> Candidates must:
> - hold a passport from a country with diplomatic relations with China;
> - hold a recognized airline pilot license with a valid and current captain type rating on an aircraft within the A320 aircraft family;
> - have at least 3,000 hours total time;
> - have at least 500 hours PIC on an aircraft of the A320 aircraft family at the start of employment;
> - having flown an aircraft of the A320 aircraft family as captain within the last 36 months (see below);
> - have experience on international routes;
> - hold a valid Class 1 medical and be age 55 or below at the start of employment;
> - hold a an ICAO Level IV English certificate or better (must be indicated on license);
> - have no record of responsibility for any aviation incident/accident;
> - have no record of criminal activities;
>
> Candidates who have accumulated more than 2,000 hours PIC on the A320 and have flown the aircraft within the last 36 months are acceptable provided they have continuously flown narrow and/or wide body aircraft since flying the A320 and that they get current on the A320 before joining the airline.
>
> Preference will be given to candidates who have renewed their proficiency check (PC) within the last 6 months or have flown the aircraft and/or have completed three take-offs and landings within the last three months.
>
> Our client offers an outstanding benefit package including:
>
> - a monthly remuneration package, including lodging allowance and bonuses, of 17,000 US $ (204,000 US $ per year) net of taxes as follows:
> - 11,000 US $ base remuneration (132,000 US $ per year);
> - 2,000 US lodging allowance (24,000 US $ per year);
> - 1,000 US $ fuel saving bonus paid every month (12,000 US $ per year, average based on actual numbers);
> - 1,500 US $ long term loyalty bonus paid at the end of the three year contract (54,000 US $ at end of contract);
> - 500 US $ monthly short term loyalty bonus paid every twelve months (6,000 US $);
> - 1,000 US $ monthly safety bonus paid every twelve months (12,000 US $);
> - a travel allowance of 10,000 US $ per year;
> - a 6 weeks on/two weeks off work schedule;
> - medical insurance coverage in China;
> - ID travel privileges as per Airline rules;
> - expat support services at induction and throughout the period of service.
>
> A three year renewable contract is offered.
>
> Only candidates meeting the above requirements will be contacted.
>
> Last updated : June 4, 2010
>
>
> Please do not e-mail us your CV/resume. Members of the Flightdeck Club can upload a CV/resume and apply for this vacancy via the FlightdeckRecruitment.com web site. If you are not already a member and would like to join, log in at Pilot jobs, airline jobs, aviation jobs from aviation recruitment specialist Flightdeck Recruitment (http://www.flightdeckrecruitment.com/login.asp), then select a subscription period from the 'Services & Pricing' page.
>
> For further information and to apply for this job, please log in as above, then perform a search for the Job ID in the listings for 'Pilot Jobs & FE Jobs' - "ID4590"
>
> If you have friends who you think would be interested in this job, please forward this e-mail to them, or ask them to visit Pilot jobs, airline jobs, aviation jobs from aviation recruitment specialist Flightdeck Recruitment (http://www.flightdeckrecruitment.com)
>

[JotaJota]

Looking SWEET there... Must be with Sichuan!!! :ok:

[youwantmetodowhat]

Shanghai I think....sweet!!

Good luck guys.

[FlyByWire1]

Appreciate anyone out there could tell me for a joining A330 FO to VN with relatively good experience on the Airbus with MFF rating A330/340 could get an accelerated command on VN A320 fleet?If so what is the average waiting period..Many thanks to all the replies.

[On Final]

Hello,

I am pretty sure this is Capital Airlines. I have a friend there who loves it and wants to renew his contract for 2 more years. They are very short pilots and have upgraded the pay again.

Good Luck,

On Final




Hey you guys,

My buddy just sent me this earlier and I thought of you guys....God damn!!! Forget VN, China's where the moneys at.

Happy landings
Y



New Job Vacancy
>
> We have recently received a new job vacancy posting on Flightdeck Recruitment which may be of interest to you.
>
> A318/319/320/321 Captain - China
>
> FDR Job ID: 4590
>
> Posted: June 5th 2010
>
> Maximum age for applicants: 55
>
> Type-rated pilots only may apply.
>
> Minimum hours (on type): 500
> Minimum hours (total): 3000
>
> Airbus A320 Captain
>
> Our Client, a growing airline operating in China, requires for immediate and upcoming employment 55 Airbus A320 Captains.
>
> It offers an updated and unprecedented remuneration package that is the best package currently on the market whatever the aircraft type.
>
> Candidates must:
> - hold a passport from a country with diplomatic relations with China;
> - hold a recognized airline pilot license with a valid and current captain type rating on an aircraft within the A320 aircraft family;
> - have at least 3,000 hours total time;
> - have at least 500 hours PIC on an aircraft of the A320 aircraft family at the start of employment;
> - having flown an aircraft of the A320 aircraft family as captain within the last 36 months (see below);
> - have experience on international routes;
> - hold a valid Class 1 medical and be age 55 or below at the start of employment;
> - hold a an ICAO Level IV English certificate or better (must be indicated on license);
> - have no record of responsibility for any aviation incident/accident;
> - have no record of criminal activities;
>
> Candidates who have accumulated more than 2,000 hours PIC on the A320 and have flown the aircraft within the last 36 months are acceptable provided they have continuously flown narrow and/or wide body aircraft since flying the A320 and that they get current on the A320 before joining the airline.
>
> Preference will be given to candidates who have renewed their proficiency check (PC) within the last 6 months or have flown the aircraft and/or have completed three take-offs and landings within the last three months.
>
> Our client offers an outstanding benefit package including:
>
> - a monthly remuneration package, including lodging allowance and bonuses, of 17,000 US $ (204,000 US $ per year) net of taxes as follows:
> - 11,000 US $ base remuneration (132,000 US $ per year);
> - 2,000 US lodging allowance (24,000 US $ per year);
> - 1,000 US $ fuel saving bonus paid every month (12,000 US $ per year, average based on actual numbers);
> - 1,500 US $ long term loyalty bonus paid at the end of the three year contract (54,000 US $ at end of contract);
> - 500 US $ monthly short term loyalty bonus paid every twelve months (6,000 US $);
> - 1,000 US $ monthly safety bonus paid every twelve months (12,000 US $);
> - a travel allowance of 10,000 US $ per year;
> - a 6 weeks on/two weeks off work schedule;
> - medical insurance coverage in China;
> - ID travel privileges as per Airline rules;
> - expat support services at induction and throughout the period of service.
>
> A three year renewable contract is offered.
>
> Only candidates meeting the above requirements will be contacted.
>
> Last updated : June 4, 2010
>
>
> Please do not e-mail us your CV/resume. Members of the Flightdeck Club can upload a CV/resume and apply for this vacancy via the FlightdeckRecruitment.com web site. If you are not already a member and would like to join, log in at Pilot jobs, airline jobs, aviation jobs from aviation recruitment specialist Flightdeck Recruitment (http://www.flightdeckrecruitment.com/login.asp), then select a subscription period from the 'Services & Pricing' page.
>
> For further information and to apply for this job, please log in as above, then perform a search for the Job ID in the listings for 'Pilot Jobs & FE Jobs' - "ID4590"
>
> If you have friends who you think would be interested in this job, please forward this e-mail to them, or ask them to visit Pilot jobs, airline jobs, aviation jobs from aviation recruitment specialist Flightdeck Recruitment (http://www.flightdeckrecruitment.com)
>

[JotaJota]

On Final, not quite sure of that...

1. Capital Airlines (BCJ) does not offer a Fuel Saving Bonus.
2. None of all those loyalty bonuses neither.
3. All contracts are 2 years...

Base pay is up to $14k, w/ a $24k bonus after comp 24 months.

But it could be... I'll say hi to BB for you :)

Take care!

[krankin]

Sorry if this has been answered before on this thread but its so bloody long and keeps drifting on and off topic so i'll ask anyway!

Just got back from a month travelling in Vietnam. Awesome country. Would LOVE to work with VNA.

Exp:
2000 hrs TT
about 1100 Multi Command.
Aust CPL with ATPL passes.
Need another 50 - 60 hours night to obtain full ATPL.
No turbine time or A320 or ATR type rating, all piston hours :{

Anyone in VNA know if they take guys like me? Am looking at an ATR FO job.

Read before that they stic their cadets on the ATR so im assuming that the answer would be no but if anyone there has heard otherwise i would love to know!!

Cheers!

K

[yanafrica]

Minimum hours ATR72 First Officer:
Hours on Type: 300
Total Hours: 1,500
Age: Should be aged under 55 (retirement age is currently age 60).
Recent Experience:
Must have flown on type within 4 months. Must have valid sim check when
joining the airline.
Medical certificate and Pilot licence must remain current for at least 1 month after joining or as required by the airline.
First Officers are required to have a full ATPL or frozen ATPL with the relevant
ATR72 Type Rating.

[krankin]

Yanafrica,

Whilst i appreciate the effort you have made in copying and pasting the mins off the VNA website, my question was directed to someone WITHIN the airline who could answer my query. So do you work for VNA? That was really what im after thanks.

K

[hongkongfooey]

Sorry, slightly back off topic, but for those considering China :

1) read all the other threads about Chinese carriers regarding the advertised T&Cs and what you actually get
2) Tax for foreigners on 15K USD/month around 5K ( 30% )
3) China really cheap place to live ( unless you want something that looks and feels bigger than a shoebox )
4) Is the money worth breathing in a few packs of cigarettes a day ? ( guess it does'nt matter if you already smoke )

Yes, I and others have been burnt, and you have had fair warning.

Good luck

[yanafrica]

krankin,
this is what you will receive from any agency those are the minimums requiered by VN. agency will not even send your resume if you do not have this minimums.
& yes i work for VN
all the best in your search
PS if you look carefully you will notice that now you can apply with a frozen atpl

[krankin]

Ok thanks Yana,

I wanted to apply but i thought that would be the case. Frozen ATPL in hand but no ATR or 320 type rating. Will have to wait i guess!

Thanks again.

[fight30]

I have been called for the selection of 18 July as F/O airbus 320, does anybody know what will happen in the sim? :ok:many thanks in advance
VAC

[Adrian Cronauer]

yesterday an Aussy and a Canadian, both A330 captains at VNA were attacked in two separate incidents. The aussy was attached by a taxi drive. The Canadian by three thugs trying to rob him at a parking garage. the canadian had surgery and current condition is unknown.

previously these vicious vietnamese put an a320 captain into hospital. beware. the vietnamese are becoming increasingly jealous of expats and have taken to using violence against them at any opportunity. the police refuse to respond which leaves the foreign expats helpless.

[goldenseth]

@ Adrian Cronauer

While I feel very sorry for those who were attacked, I think it's totally irrelevant to put the jealousy among pilots and thugs' attack together. We don't need more tension between the locals and the expats.

Vietnamese will be vietnamese. We need to get along with them if we want to work here.Vietnam is still a good place to live and work if one knows how to adapt. but some people just don't learn.

[Fubaliera]

There are racist everywhere, concur that the vietnamese are nice people, especially the girls hihihih.

[NVpilot]

How the hell could you arrive at such a crass conclusion?Spendid, I don't think the poster is trying to insult the Vietnamese people, it's just a fact of life when living here, if a situation occurs, it's very difficult to get any type of a police response, if the following day you want to file a report, that's fine unless the next day is a Sunday, a day they don't work.

[UALSIC]

.....yesterday an Aussy and a Canadian, both A330 captains at VNA were attacked in two separate incidents. The aussy was attached by a taxi drive. The Canadian by three thugs trying to rob him at a parking garage....

Did they take too much FUEL ?! :=

Seriously though everybody needs to be aware of their surroundings here....very aware. :mad:

The amount needed for a night on the town in District 1 including drinks is a month's pay for these guys.......no matter how much you smile - you are a target. :ouch:

[goosensheep]

So I did a search in here. And couldn't find any recent information regarding sim check.

Might be going for a sim ride soon. On the A320/321

I am a First Officer.

Just wondering what one might expect during sim and line training ( if one get accepted)

[superced]

any feed back about euro pacific?????

[stillgettingitup]

Anyone know if these agency's are doing the kick back AKA brown payment bags with VA? I hear one company in DUB is and it's not PARC :=so stay away from them!!! Go with PARC as they will fight your corner and defend teh contract and fines you might get

[superced]

But anyway a lot of people are failing the sim and they aint gonna pay you nothing. So some savings in your account would be good for rainy days.


?????????????..........

[Soap Box Cowboy]

How's Rishworth?

[superced]

it's the best agency.

[superced]

was a joke.

[dadof6]

Spring Air

[Airbus320Asia]

i am with direct personnel .i am half way through my training .I am quiet happy with direct personnel .They are based in Dublin .You can contact them through their website.you can contact either Barbara kelly or Derek Doyle they are quiet helpful.Once i complete my training i will post you in detail all the info about Vietnam Airlines and Direct Personnel.

[duyentranvan]

i will fail u....

[duyentranvan]

paul jeeves, are you here? if you are i want to let you know that i'm coming on the 330. Wait for me i will do your training.

[NVpilot]

He's beyond training at this point. :E

[superced]

serious issue......:=

[MainDude]

Hi guys, just wanted to know *how* people manage to swop from RAL to Parc.

I understand that RAL has a clause in their contract that restricts a person from accepting work from either VA direct or from another agency for *one year* after the RAL contract expires or is terminated... is there a way round this clause?

Have some guys managed to put a line though it before they signed with RAL?

[Dream Land]

The couple of pilots that switched contractors did it by completing their current contract and then asking permission from the airline. Switching prior to completion of your current contract is something unheard of.

The clause does not hold water.

Cheers, D.L.

[duyentranvan]

show me someone from the political post.

[ia1166]

superced. If you read the sim profile and did a bit of study you wouldn't fail the sim. It's up to you.

If you fail the sim though, you won't be paid until you pass the resit. And you'll have to pay for that too.

[jetjoker]

Are they hiring DECs for the A330 fleet? Thank you

[Vrille]

If I was to join on the right hand seat as a Parc or Rishworth contractor what's the chance to move to the left eventually? Is there a priority system for the locals or is it a fair process?

[Algol]

Are they hiring DECs for the A330 fleet? Thank you
Last one was back in June. All dried up since then. They seem to be promoting locals instead - like the lovely "doitinatranyvan".

Try HK Air instead. Or Jet India. Or Turkish.

[jetjoker]

Thank you ALGOL

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Anyone know if there is a chance or if anyone has ever moved up from the right seat of the ATR to either left seat or onto the 320?

Heard of guys going from left seat ATR to the right on the 320 and 320 guys moving up to the 330 but seems no one has moved on from right seat of an ATR.

[malaysiacadet]

did any expat get hired on permanent terms instread of contract?

[Dream Land]

Cowboy, you seem to answer your own question, so not real sure what information you're asking.

Cadet, yes there are a few special circumstances where pilots were hired directly, almost zero chance that it would work for you though, and by the way, pilots working directly for VAC are on a local salary.

D.L.

[Morten_M]

I'm seriously considering joining Vietnam Airlines as a FO on the 777.

I've read all the post, but not been able to find specific roster information for the 777.

I would really appreciate if someone could either post or PM me a full expat FO roster for the 777. A couple of months worth would be great, to get an idea of what to expect.

Thank you very much.

Regards

[malaysiacadet]

"almost zero chance that it would work for you though"

hi, thank you. btw, what exactly do you mean by this?

i have some hours on the bus, contract work is not to my taste.... i prefer permanent long term job.

thanks

[superced]

oh lalalalala....

[malaysiacadet]

PappyJ,
I've no idea what's wrong with you, but anyway, i removed the "baby" and "small" since you didn't like them. No point trying to argue.

gents, i really want to know if any foreigners get hired on permanent basis(directly by them).

[Lost in Saigon]

No, Vietnam Airlines only hires Vietnamese Nationals on a permanent basis. They get paid less as well.

[malaysiacadet]

Thank you gents

[Luke SkyToddler]

Jeez pappy ... chill out ... everyone calls it a baby bus, including plenty of mega experienced captains at my last company, it's like a gesture of love and affection.

With regard to contract work malaysia-cadet, I don't think you understand how it works here ...

1) Locals get paid a LOT less than contractors. Many thousand US$ less.

2) If you are on a local contract you'd be paid in Vietnamese dong which is a non-convertible currency, so you can only spend it in Vietnam and can't take it back to Malaysia.

3) Locals lose out on a lot of other perks the contractors get, i.e. when we go out of base they have to stay in the old-skool company accommodation while the expats get the Sheraton, locals get no ID90s, etc etc.

Basically you'd be crazy to voluntarily want to be on a local contract if you qualify as an expat.

[Morten_M]

I'm seriously considering joining Vietnam Airlines as a FO on the 777.

I've read all the post, but not been able to find specific roster information for the 777.

I would really appreciate if someone could either post or PM me a full expat FO roster for the 777. A couple of months worth would be great, to get an idea of what to expect.

Thank you very much.

Regards

[Eight Ball]

Just curious, what are the chances for an A320 F/O with 500 hours on type of getting a contract with VA ?

[MainDude]

500 hours A320 is enough to get in, how much total time do you have, and do you have full ATPL?

[Eight Ball]

yup, Australian ATPL, total time 3,500 hrs. Currently here in Asia.

[duyen]

not taking anymore FO's at the moment apparently.. they are just accepting interest..

[fcychao]

In 777, you fly about 60hrs in average. Currently the destination for expet, except Russian, r only CDG, FRA, ICN, HAN, and rarely SYD.

VA does issue monthly roaster at the beginning of the month, but it changes a lot and basically you only know your schedule for the next couple days by phone.

People are generally very nice to go along with; very relaxing life and company culture.

[Lost in Saigon]

Is that 60 hrs only stick time? Time in the bunk doesn't count?

[Adrian Cronauer]

Soundbarrier,

I agree parts of Africa(VN) are way behind, Libya(HAN) being one of them.

The problem is, everything is behind including their CAA(V). This means that the airlines are doing whatever they want - as another poster has stated the airline in question has had pilots failed by Expat TRI/TRE only to find out the decision has been reversed by a "local TRE" at the behest of the company.

The end result is that you have people who dont know what they are doing, flying in an environment that sets them up to fail, in an airline that only brings out the books and SMS system when overseas inspections are taking place.

You have brand new Airbus aircraft being operated in, what amounts to no more than a cowboy bush operation - sadly that a newly painted and shiny jet fools many people into thinking that this is a safe "European type operation". It is not... far from it.

Until the larger picture in Libya (VN) changes, put that Libyan (VN) pride aside and put the best people in the flight deck - irrespective of their nationality.

On the ground get good people that actually know the aircraft and want to work... people who bother to take their tools to SA and not just sit there for weeks on end collecting the money and not looking after the aircraft.

People who know how to change a wheel... and not try and say its fine to fly the aircraft with huge cuts running through the sidewall... people who will not try and tell a native English speaker the MEL says something else and it is ok to fly... when it quite clearly is not.

I know there are many problems in Africa (VN) I have seen them first hand... but this is NO excuse for a loss of life... It may or may not have played a part in this accident.

However it has in many others and left unchecked will continue to do so... So please don't use "this is Africa (VN)" as an excuse it just wont wash with me.

PT6A

[ReverseFlight]

I have read the detailed requirements on VNA's recruitment webpage but does anyone know or heard of them taking on fATPL F/Os with a self-funded A320 TR with zero hours on type ? (I realise that their A320s will be phased out in a couple of years' time.) Advice appreciated.

[superced]

Absolutely No chance .

[UALSIC]

Minimums are just that - sorry. :ugh:

[gdukkoq]

Hey mates, I'm offering a screening on the ATR as a FO, currently I have 3100hrs with 1300hrs ATR time and rated as a captain, do you believe there is any chance for a left seat upgrade ? and how expensive is the upgrade on the A320 or 777 ?
Thanks

[gdukkoq]

Does anyone knows what is Rishworth offering now for FO ATR.
This is what Direct Personnal is offering :Monthly salary
US$65 per day is paid to you by Direct Personnel during ground school (Max 14 days). The payment will be included in your first month’s salary.
Thereafter, upon receipt of CAAV validation:
 For the first 6 months of Service US$3,900 is payable.
 Thereafter from 7 - 12 months of Service an increased rate of US$5,450 is payable.
 Thereafter from 13 - 36 months of Service an increased rate of US$6,000 is payable.
Upon successful completion of 36 full months of service, Direct Personnel International will make a payment of US$7,500 to you as a Completion of Assigment Bonus. This payment is made regardless of your further extension.
Should you wish to further extend your assignment period, Incremental Payment increases will also be payable as follows:
 Upon completion of 36 months full service – an increase of 2% is payable going forward.
 Upon completion of 48 months full service – a further 2% is payable going forward.
 Upon completion of 60 months full service – a further 2% is payable going forward.

[Dream Land]

Rishworth has better pay and benefits than the DPI contract, please contact RAL for the details, you don't always get the facts from the pilot forums.

Cheers, D.L.

[Sun02]

Hi,
Any pilot fliying on A320 from Hanoi base????
How is the typical roster ??

Thanks !

[TopTup]

DL.... While I do not discredit your experience with RAL, mine was utter incompetence and acceptance / promotion of ritual contract breaches. If one reads back a few pages RAL placed an ILLEGAL pay cut on their pilots in Vietnam and elsewhere. My experience of RAL while on contract in India was criminal at best.

Better to go with an agency that supports its pilots. Personally I would rather forgo a few $$ for transparency and integrity, or hold out for a slot with a better agency (but not EuroPacific - not much better if at all). RAL's reputation by and large offers nothing of transparency nor integrity.

Talk to pilots with RAL at Air India now, as well as those at Vietnam, so it seems.

Personally if I had the choice I'd rather be unemployed than be with immoral scum like RAL.

[lostcomm]

Im with RAL for a while now. No problems, pay is on time. Insurance package is better then DPI or Parc. The rest is the same I think. RAL does pay you back a part of the screeining cost. At least it used to. DPI does not. The rest is more or less the same.

To SUN02.: What roster? Is there a roster in HVN? :ugh: It changes daily at the moment. Calls late in the evening for the next day...

LC

[sandworm]

Is VN still hiring 330 FO? Which contractors are best to contact? Thanks y'all

[ia1166]

I've been here ages with PARC and RAL. How exactly is the RAL insurance package better than PARCs? I'm at a loss with that statement.

And lets not mention the pay cut RAL got.

You're not in control of the facts maybe?

PARC pay a couple of days before RAL. Come XMAS time i've been paid by PARC by the 22, when RAL have delayed payment till the 2nd JAN due the XMAS holidays. DPI?? well even worse.

I get free accident insurance with PARC. It costs around 100 bucks a month with RAL.

I get paid more with PARC. Not sure about the FNGs but the standard contract a couple of years ago was 50 bucks a month more with PARC. 50 bucks is a lot of beers in Vietnam

I get BUPA gold with PARC. It'll even cover me on my ski holiday in France next year with accident insurance if i break my leg. RALs won't. RALs insurance might be equivalent in Vietnam but the same as BUPA gold. I doubt it. You need to look at it. look at the cover skiing in France or climbing in Nepal. BUPA is good for all these things. Not so sure RALs is. And the free accident insurance?

Take it from the horses mouth. PARC is better. Mucho.

If nothing else their beer calls are much better.

DL is paid by RAL so he will sing their hym book to you when you go to sleep.

It's your choice

[ia1166]

And before you bring up the evac insurance? I asked for it so i have it. It didn't cost me anything. I'm not sure what happened with the recent accident but maybe they didn't read the from and tick the right box?

Who knows.

[Dream Land]

On the BUPA policy at Parc, you have to pay extra now for evacuation services, not so on the RAL policy, also there is no deductible on the RAL policy as on the BUPA plan, around $400.00 for a year.

[ia1166]

As i said. I am covered. I haven't paid anything for it. I just requested it on the renewal.

Get your facts correct.

Deductible what? Tax? Don't have to pay any so no problem.

How can you honestly say RALs insurance is better than PARCs.

How much per month does Accident Insurance cost you DL. 1000 a year? Does 400 deductable against tax offset this? In your recent predicament, if you were with PARC you would have been paid 80% of your salary while injured. 3 months at say 7 grand a month. And you talk of 400 bucks deductable. My dear boy you lost out on 21 grand.

[Dream Land]

DL is paid by RAL so he will sing their hym book to you when you go to sleepI think anyone with average intelligence can go through the thread to see your skewed perspective, I don't need to embellish the truth, I am simply correcting the people that don't seem to have the facts. You obviously do your best to make RAL sound bad, but I think it is obvious to anyone that you are only on the threads to make trouble, have a nice day.

By the way, I am talking about the CURRENT policy, not the one that you may be on, we are talking about the current situation, not 5 years ago.

[ia1166]

As far as i know, PARC told me i have evac because i asked for it. They didn't mention any kind of grandfather rights.

And in any event i'd be happy to pay for evac and get free accident insurance. It's a lot cheaper.

And BUPA is the same everywhere, not in the states though but who cares about that?? I can go skiing in France, kiting in the thailand, diving in maldives, any number of things and my BUPA/PARC accident insurance is good to go. I really doubt the RAL insurance is the same.

I don't have a secret agenda, i'm just clued up on the facts.

Say whatever you like, but the overall insurance from PARC is better. No doubt.

[ia1166]

And lets face facts DL. You tried to change to PARC with the rest of us a few years ago. But it didn't quite happen did it. The few of us still here know the all about it.

So don't be bitter old boy.

And tell the truth.

[Dream Land]

That's fine, I'm not on here to sell RAL as you accuse me of, I'm only trying to give pilots information, and in most cases refer pilots to the contract agencies, by the way, you can get provisional BUPA coverage in the USA for a low daily rate.

[ia1166]

I don't particularly care about the states. I'm just concerned with anyone who compares the contact insurances and decides RAL is better than PARC.

As i said to RAL on leaving, i would like to be insured so that in the event i wake up in a hospital, i know my bills are covered and my mortgage will be paid.

PARC provides cover for this. RAL do not. It's not a secret agenda. It's just fact.

And the added benefit is that PARC stick to their contractural agreement, and RAL do not. Or have you forgotten your pay cut?

[Dream Land]

Some people just don't get it, you are trying to put down RAL's health insurance that has more coverage than the current PARC policy, a policy that has a deductible that RAL's coverage does not have. I am stating a fact with relation to our Health coverage, not your Personal Accident and Injury policy, do you know the difference?

My recent surgery was 100% covered including taxi fare with NO deductible. :ugh:

There is no need to misinform people, it's public knowledge.

[lostcomm]

Why dont you relax ia1166.

Since you have all the answers about the contracts, medical and xmas pay maybe you should join Parc as a consultant. Maybe you can make more money then on 90 hrs of DAD, HUI and HANs.

Relax and enjoj your beer in Hanoi Sheraton.


LC

[USMCProbe]

I got paid by Parc on the 25th of February, for the month of February. The other agencies here in China only pay, AFTER the airline pays them. It is supposed to be on the 10th of the month, after the month that you worked. This month they paid 5 days late.
If I had been with Rishworth, the 5 days waiting I would have had to worry about whether the airline didn't pay, or if Rishworth decided to keep my money.

[Dream Land]

The other agencies here in ChinaProbe, this is a Vietnam Airlines (info please), not China.

[USMCProbe]

Yes, I am in China, and if you remember right, I left VAC because your employer decided that the contract we both signed was overpriced from my side. 359 days ago. Then, VAC owed me about 7k in man-days for vacation not taken. Brand R decided to keep the money. A few phone calls to the contract office in Hanoi confirmed that VAC had, in fact, paid my man-days. Brand R decided that the money was theirs, and not mine. I finally got the money.

Nothing against you DL. You are a positive in the lives of new pilots at VAC. The scum you have chosen to work for in Auckland are nothing short of White Collar Criminals. Your association with them dilutes your contribution.

[USMCProbe]

Yes, DL it is. But as you remember I left VAC 1 year ago, because Brand R decided to keep more of the money VAC paid to me than was contractually agreed to.

Nothing against you DL. You are a help to all new pilots that come to VAC. Unfortunately the scum you have chosen to work for dilutes your contribution and credibility on this forum. Nothing personal.

[tknapp]

I was under Rishwworth and I thought they were fine.That was my first contract job. I was there during the start of the pay cuts.Though I think the pay cuts were wrong, I was used to them since I took about four with my company I work for in the States. I was still making more money at VNA.I don't agree with the way Rishworth handled it but it's business 101 1st thing to go is employee pay.If you didn't agree with it they're plenty of contracts out there.

I will say pay was always on time.
Medical was good,I was covered in the States. The only bad thing was family is not covered in the States.I did have loss of liscense for a small fee.It was much cheaper than my job at home plus the medical is 100 times better than at home.
Rishworth was able to get my contract changed multiple times from 6x2, 5x3 and 4x4.u don't believe park got to many changed I believe.

DL is a great guy to get you set up for your adventure in Vietnam.He has helped out many pilots joining Vna with Rishworth and also Parc.

[olepilot]

Glad to see that you are alive and kicking, ( each other )
;-)

[ia1166]

Yes but the point is when RAL cut your salary, PARC did not.

Parc have handed out more roster variations that RAL. You know that tom.

90 hours a month? More like 400 average a year over 6 years. Sept 30, Oct was 3, Nov 36 (That was a busy month!), Dec no hours, Jan 20, Feb 25. March will be about 35 i think.

And before anybody throws i sim time? it's not much either.

Don't know where you get 90 a month from.

Mind you i don't ask for overnights. I just get what's left.

[tknapp]

I think the most I ever flew was 90 hrs and that was during TET.Other than that maybe 65 a month on average.

[USMCProbe]

Hours wise I agree. 790 hours in 18 months. Job was great. Good to see you online again TK. Hope everything is working out great at home.

FWIW I do have to disagree with the roster changes. Parc guys got it, at least 5/3, with a request. Rishworth guys had to fight for it. It took me 3 months to get the scumbags to submit the request. They lied for the first 3 months. I had to get the contract office at VAC to verify that the request had not been made. Me and you TK are one of the few Rishworth victims to get the roster change. I can't tell you how many Rishworth FO's I flew with that requested a roster change, but it was denied. And they flew far fewer hours than my 60 a month.

The agencies get paid less if you work less, so they lose money by making the request. My opinion is Parc looks at you as a long term investment, Rishworth looks at you as a short term cash cow. IMHO of course.

[Dream Land]

My advice for anyone out there looking into a contract position in Viet Nam or general advice for any contract, is to make contact with someone currently working on that contract, there are always cases where someone feels they were burned in the past and continually dredges up their dissatisfaction over and over again, apparently not concerned with the bigger issues at hand, their real concern only to serve themselves.

IMHO I can highly recommend to anyone looking- a position here at Viet Nam Airlines, they are continuing to grow and modernize their operation each year, the fleet is very young and the working environment is very accommodating.

Although the culture here is very different, you won't see anyone complaining about having to live here, once you stay here for a while, it gets into your blood for most.

Cheers, D.L.

[USMCProbe]

DL
Serve themselves? How am I serving myself? I am simply warning others of the perils of working for your employer. What do I gain from this?

What do you gain? You get paid by them. I believe advertising for them is a violation of forum rules.

Vietnam Airlines was a great gig. I was extremely happy working there, as was treated extremely well by everyone, every time I showed up for work. I only left because I couldn't stand working for your employer any more. I knew if I stayed, they would simply rip me off again, which they attempted to do again a week later. It was a great choice.

I would also like to thank those that took the time to warn me about Rishworth when I got to Vietnam Airlines. This advice was very valuable. I believe ia1166 was one of them - thank you.

I am simply trying to pass on the good information that I received. It turned out to be all to true. Burned and now vindictive???? You bet.

If Rishworth were the last agency on earth, advertising the last pilot job. I would not apply for the job. Period.

Being a VAC thread, I do have to end this rant with a:ok::ok::ok:
for anyone wanting to work at VAC.

[USMCProbe]

By the way DL, I already have at least 4 confirmed "saves". What is a save? Aircraft? No "saved" from working for Rishworth.

I can also give a half a save to ia1166 for clueing me in to your employer. If it hadn't been for that, I might have stayed with them longer, probably resulting in more anguish for me. That means one unhappy customer begat me, and then I begat 4 others.

Its like being a missionary really.........................:=

[Fubaliera]

Question anybody based in Hanoi on the A320 for VN. How are the patters now, are they out and backs or are there still any layovers. Thanks for the info

[Luke SkyToddler]

This beating up on Rishworth is getting completely ridiculous

For anyone who's interested, I am a very happy Rishworth pilot, for a number of reasons

1) Pay is the same as PARC and better than DPI
2) Medical insurance is better
3) Prompt and professional reply to any communications or concerns I've had with them
4) They absolutely bent over backwards to help me get this job, I missed a connecting flight through no fault of my own while I was coming out for the interview, by the time I arrived at my transit airport they had already sorted me out with business class connecting flights on a different airline, totally at their expense, and their rep met me at the arrivals gate to help me get to the interview on time
5) The Rishworth pilot support guys here in Vietnam are a couple of top men who've been here for decades, they'll buy you a beer all day long, they give you a very good briefing on arrival with the heads up on everything you need to get started in this town. They'll answer calls and texts day or night if you need a hand on something, whether it's pilot related or just something random like figuring out how to buy a bike or rent a house
6) Rishworth has the best christmas party
7) Regardless of how wonderful you guys think Parc are, their candidates just aren't getting phone calls at the moment. I don't know the politics of the situation but I can tell you I know guys who applied from my old company through Parc and are still waiting after +1 year, I applied through Rishworth and got interview offer within days. On my joining course was 4 DPI guys and 5 Rishworth's, go figure.

There are clearly some people out there on this forum who are pretty angry over some bad thing that's happened to them in the past, fair play to them, their story is just as valid as anyone else's, but sometimes it seems like certain people have a search function running 24/7 in case someone mentions the "R" word so they can come slag them off.

The sad truth is that it seems to be the same couple of guys telling the same story year after year, and we're only getting to hear one side of a presumably two sided story. There are several hundred pilots employed by Rishworth and all the ones I have met, seem to be pretty happy with their situation.

And finally I have to say I'm sick of all the PARC worship that goes on here. Whatever they may have been in years gone by, these days they are a subsidiary of Oxford Aviation School, they are owned by private equity, and they are absolutely up to their necks in the destruction of decent airline wages in Europe, and the exploitation of 200 hour wannabes, through selling pay-to-fly schemes and crap like the "Easyjet Flexi Crew". You guys should go read about it elsewhere on this forum, stuff like that is the absolute biggest :mad: cancer on this industry at the moment. Anyone who is a professional pilot and maybe wants their kids to follow in their footsteps one day, should not support any agency that's involved in flogging such :mad: crap

[angelgabriel]

Well said, Have been with Rworth and they are great.....i know alot of pilots who are happy with Rworth. You are right,it always the same grumpy old men who complain all the time.

There are alot of Parc pilots who are not happy with them...esp in matters of medical....talk to the pilot who had a bad bike mishap. FV hospital refused to start the operation on him until someone put down a deposit of USD5000. Even when his BUPA medical card was showed to them:=.

One more Parc pilot found out that he was not covered for medical evac...when he asked them,they said you have to tell us if you want it or not...:ugh:.

Point is...both have their good and bad points..its never smooth flying anywhere....THATS LIFE !

Just be greatfull that we have a good job and are able to put food on the table for our familes and save for our golden years.

Save and Happy Flying !

[USMCProbe]

I am as guilty as anybody on diluting the value of this thread with contract agency stuff. So I will cease, and I have started a new thread called "Contract Agency Rants and Kudo" in the SEASIA area.

To the moderators, my apologies.

[Dream Land]

Simulator screening depends on the fleet you are joining, on the A320 it will be a two hour simulator session going through most of the standard abnormals, straight forward, no tricks.

Cheers, D.L.

[DesiPilot]

Hi starskate,

Since you mentioned in your previous posts that you were furloughed from your previous job I am assuming that you will be applying as a first officer. At present time VNA is not hiring FO's. Nothing to say that it will not change sometime in the future.

I think your best bet is Tiger in Singapore, Air Asia (the pay is horrible), Air Macau and I heard Tianjin in China is hiring FO's as well. Of course the mid east is also open, Emirates, Etihad, Air Arabia, NAS, Qatar they were all looking for first officers.

As for the sim ride it is pretty straight forward, V1 cuts, SE ILS approach, SE go around, VOR approach, Wind shear, dual hydraulic failure, either NDB (yes NDB) or VOR hold and finally for PICs evacuation drills.

I hope this helps.

[Firegoofy]

Hey together,

I just have some questions about VNA and hope that someone will give me a short answer.
What is the different between the job offer on the VNA website and an agency?
How is living in Vietnam with two young kids?

Thank you!!!

[Prisoner Number 320]

Quality of life at Air Vietnam will completely depend on the fleet you join.

777 fleet is the most professional of them all. roster no change much and is pretty fair.

A320 fleet is the fleet most open to the fact that VNA is still learning and needs help from foreign organizations, pilots, etc. Roster is busy, but not terrible. Young management is very good and easy the work with.

ATR and F70 fleets most friendly and humble.

papa always says, "if you can't say some good about someone, don't say anything" With that, I don't talk about A330 fleet.


Vietnam is family friendly and an easy place to live once you get yourself around the immaturity of the government, civil servants, and officials.

[superced]

"and finally I have to say I'm sick of all the PARC worship that goes on here. Whatever they may have been in years gone by, these days they are a subsidiary of Oxford Aviation School, they are owned by private equity, and they are absolutely up to their necks in the destruction of decent airline wages in Europe, and the exploitation of 200 hour wannabes, through selling pay-to-fly schemes and crap like the "Easyjet Flexi Crew". You guys should go read about it elsewhere on this forum, stuff like that is the absolute biggest cancer on this industry at the moment. Anyone who is a professional pilot and maybe wants their kids to follow in their footsteps one day, should not support any agency that's involved in flogging such crap"


100% agree with that !!!!!

Parc is getting really unfair .

[ia1166]

As a matter of point luke, nobody has been here decades. The longest serving guys are on 15years.

I'll throw this into the pot for a bit of fun:

The senior RAL guys, yes that includes the rep, get BUPA gold and Loss of Licence insurance free from RAL. And a higher basic. So maybe you should ask yourself why that is.

We're all equal in PARC. All entitled to BUPA, free accident insurance, same money.

The other RAL rep tried to change to PARC a couple of years ago. So that's his opinion.

RAL. They make me laugh. I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a sharp stick.

Think about it. If BUPA is as bad as RAL say, why do they still give it to the long serving guys here. And not you.

Because you're not worth it to RAL.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Is that right mate.

And how did you come about that nugget of information ... did you hear it from a friend of a friend of a friend or read it elsewhere on pprune?

Unlike you, I don't make it my business to pry into well-known people's individual salary packages, and publish them on the internet without their permission ... but I would be very surprised if the two Rishworth pilot support captains did not get paid a bit extra to provide support services and dealings with management on behalf of the rest of us, and more power to them. Rishworth gets an absolute bargain out of them two for the excellent services they provide to us. Who are the PARC equivalent of those two guys by the way, I don't believe I've seen them around? :rolleyes:

I don't believe your "rumour" re medical insurance for a second, but I can tell you that the "rumour" I heard as reported elsewhere on the thread, is that the best hospital in town (FV) doesn't recognize BUPA / PARC's medical insurance provider at all, as the captain who recently had a serious motorbike accident found out, when he had to find a large US$ advance on the credit card before they'd even admit him.

Good luck with your digging of more sensational news scoops on Rishworth there dude, keep the entertainment coming :ok:

[nomad45]

Hi
I am one of the Taiwanese pilots in VA. I am appalled by the accusation that you made towards some of our fellow pilots here. I hope that these claims stand an actual fact and proof and not just your own made-up fantasy.
First of all, I don't know where you get the idea that we want to become Vietnamese people, with all due respect to them. Do you want to be a national that you're not? We are very proud of our own heritage and culture. It is the most preposterous thing I've ever heard.
Secondly, it is not in our culture to write reports behind someone else. Although I would be too hypocritical to say that it never happened. But what about in your own culture? Don't tell me it never did. It's the human nature! Bad seeds exist in every culture!!
Most of the Taiwanese pilots here, like a lot of fellow pilots from other countries, just want to fly safely and enjoy the life that this country can offer. I do agree with you that we are all expats here and we need to look out for each other. if there are some sort of misunderstandings, I'm sure we can all work it out and leave it behind us. but blatantly de-value our culture and people is something I can not tolerate.

[...]

Hi,

Apologies to change subject...
Thought someone might be able to answer that one:

as part of the requirements for A320 capt contracts with Vietnam Airlines, most agencies are asking for 4000h TT, 1500h PIC, 500h PIC on type.

Does anyone know if the 1500h PIC could be negiociable with any agencies?

Cheers!

[respect me]

and .....tell me who you are ?

[...]

Hello Respect Me,

I'm someone who'd like to apply for such a position, but not yet fulfilling all the advertised requirements, hence my question :)

[PappyJ]

is that the best hospital in town (FV) doesn't recognize BUPA / PARC's medical insurance provider at all, as the captain who recently had a serious motorbike accident found out, when he had to find a large US$ advance on the credit card before they'd even admit him.

Not at all true. The issue with the FV hospital came about when hospital's admitting receptionist made a decision which was contrary to hospital policy. When the hospital management was made aware of the problem, the money was promptly returned and BUPA's policy took over per the agreement between the hospital and BUPA.

Next; within the hour BUPA telephoned the injured pilot in his hospital room and confirmed that they would be paying ALL the costs, less a very small deductible (100 GBP).

This is not something that I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend. I personally answered the phone call from the BUPA representative who explained all the details, and then relayed that information to the injured pilot myself, so I do know the facts in this particular case.

Regarding other issues concerning the PARC / Rishworth debate, I prefer to remain mute.

[VVTS25R]

Hi! there, I think respect me is asking that so call: Prisoner No# 320 who try to light-up a fire between expat pilot, so please be patient, some nice guy here will answer your question soon!:ok:

[PappyJ]

Does anyone know if the 1500h PIC could be negiociable with any agencies?

The official answer seems "No. Contract requirements are contract requirements."

But, we have witnessed a lot of things happen that over the years that we did not expect. For example, we've seen non-type rated people get hired. We've seen F/O's get upgraded who were under the minimum age specified for a captain. We've also seen these minimum requirements change vastly over the years.

I do know that VNA have hired pilots with less than the specified requirements, ;) so it would seem that it is possible, but the official answer remains.

Good luck

[...]

Dear VVTS25R/ PappyJ,

Many thanks for your answer. I'll definately give it a try.

Despite the few bad things written, it still seems a very nice company to work for.

Happy landings :)

[ia1166]

Luke. I've been here 7 years so i know lots actually.

I don't pry but when i arrived with RAL some old friends of mine were here already. They were from the Airbus days so i had inside knowledge. Your suggestion of prying is a bit rich. More like your lack of appreciation of how much you are being shafted. Maybe you should avoid sitting down!

The original Airbus contract of 1995 included BUPA Gold and Loss of Licence. When RAL took it over a few years back they continued to pay the original Airbus contract guys the same insurance and LoL. They still do. But they save money by giving you less. I had to pay 1000 a year extra to upgrade my insurance to BUPA. They can do it. They have a company policy. They just don't want to pay to put you on it!

That is fact. And it's well known amongst the long timers here. Ask RN and he will tell you. It's why he didn't change to PARC when the rest of the RAL guys did, me included, 4 years ago.

The story about the FV hospital is an BUPA issue and they have taken it very seriously. It's all about some medical admissions orderly in FV and is a typical Vietnam problem.

Both of the RAL reps get either 500 or 1000 a month to do what they do. The PARC rep gets 500. That is another fact. Otherwise why would they do anything? How do i know? Because RC couldn't help himself but tell everybody what a score he got out of RAL. It's no prying. He told everybody.

When i arrived there was no help. But who needs is anyway? We're supposed to be pilots. Able to sort ourselves out. If you really need someone to hold your hand as you get off the freedom bird...

All the PARC boys are pretty happy. We didn't suffer a pay cut like you boys did.

[Dream Land]

Yes IP, on the original contract they were put up in the Omni and made 13 months salary too, what does any of your ranting have to do with anything that is actually relevant to newcomers?

Amazing! :ugh:

[ia1166]

I'm pointing out that the the PARC contract is the same as the contract RAL give to their very senior pilots. And as such is better than the standard RAL pilot contract.

You keep saying the RAL contract is the same. But it's not, otherwise why would the senior RAL guys still get BUPA and LOL.

And PARC honour their contract. RAL doesn't. Or do i need to mention the PAY CUT again?

You are a RAL employee. Newcomers are after the truth.

[Prisoner Number 320]

Rishworth is crap man. I come here more one year ago, listen to RC bull **** but really should come wit parc. Rishwoth is joke the same so many 3rd world pilot they bring here. chinese and spanish is the same rishworth, all talk and crap, but can't fly and always talk **** about other foreigner pilot. Rishworth only care about they're money. they no help me when i need something. Parc is number one but to late for changing.

[pilot7612]

Hi for everybody,
im pilot on atr42/72-500, type rated in toulouse and i have 350 hrs as first officer. And im looking a job in Vietname Airliners.

[ia1166]

I'd be careful about attacking an agencies pilots. We're all the same brother. we take the contract from the agency that offers it.

I can 100 % assure you that the overall quality of pilots from all the agencies is the same.

What i'd like to see is the same treatment of the pilots from the agencies. If we all know what each agency does maybe we can pressure them into it.

Incidentally the RAL contract has improved a lot since PARC came to town. Anyone care to dispute me can feel free, but i can assure you that the RAl medical was appalling until they started losing people to PARC.

I've just heard that RAL are paying on the 10th now like DPI? VAC pay the agencies on the 15th, and PARC pay us on the 25th. RAL used to pay at the end of the month. Please tell me they haven't followed DPI now??? Do they sit on your salary for 25 days??? Do they put it in the same bank account with your pay cut i wonder????

[Dream Land]

As far as I know, RAL still pays on the last business day of the month, my salary was in the bank on the 29th.

[Fubaliera]

Dream Land, anyword on when vn will start recruiting 320/21 F/Os.
Thanks in advance

[ia1166]

Now. There are courses in ground school. And new fos on line training.

Based in Hanoi though.

Screening has been on going as far as i can see on the sim schedule

[Dream Land]

Vietnam Airlines is currently looking for A320 CA's and FO's.

[Michi]

Via which agency? Only see RAL "intention of ..."... Is it possible to make a direct application?

[Dream Land]

You will read on some of the threads that agencies are quite unnecessary and you will also read that expats can work directly for the airline because you can apply directly from their website…but the reality is that you must apply through one of the agencies.

Having said that, there are a few expats working directly for VAC, and the reason has been explained several times why this happened and why it's not going to happen to you.

D.L.

[ia1166]

Can we move on from the cultural abuse and get back to the agency abuse.

It's more fun. And they can't answer back without revealing themselves!!

I know you read this thread over there in RAL towers.

[ia1166]

last guys were from RAL i think.

apply to all of them and take the best offer.

[chai ja]

Just missed out on the screenings 19/20th May - Does anybody know if there will be screenings June/July for 320 FOs? BTW, its thru Rishworth

Cheers CJ

[Dream Land]

All new pilots will have Hanoi for a base, more Western in HCM, yes probably so, the weather is a bit dreary in the winter months, but Hanoi has a lot to offer.

Most expats in Hanoi are living near the Sheraton Hotel on West Lake, this is where they catch their transport to the airport, it's a very nice area, but prices are bound to go up with the influx of flight crews.

If you enjoy riding a motorcycle, Hanoi is much better with a variety of highways in the area.

Cheers, D.L.

[tknapp]

When is VNA going to increase the pay? It's way lower than a year ago for new pilots.

[UALSIC]

There has been talks with the airline with both Rishworth/Parc - no info yet.

They better get on it before more CPTs leave for China etc. :ugh:

[chai ja]

Are VNA losing guys to Emirates/EY etc?

[mach 84]

some are going to the desert, but also some are coming from there.

etihad has a roadshow at the sheraton in saigon on june 21st at 3 pm,

let's see what they have to offer. :}

[The Dominican]

some are going to the desert, but also some are coming from there

Lots of people changing just for the sake of change, some times even taking a pay cut!!!! the pursuit of the greener grass I guess. :hmm:

[chai ja]

Cheers for info.
Does anybody know if VNA are screening for F/Os through Rishworth June/July? Is it ongoing?

Cheers
Chai

[Taildragger Pilot]

Hi all:
I'm a A320 cpt flying in a semi-major airline that could be closing in the near future. Getting a job over here is not easy and less if a bunch of some hundred get in the same situation.
Of all the big places to get a job I like Vietnam the most. I don't like very stiff working atmosphere nor a very relaxed one. I don't like dessert countries policies. Just forget about Japan (gotto do all your training from scrach). Korea can get interesting as well as China but I feel more like VAL for a start.
I'm not looking for the buck but for a way of living, as long as I get enough to live well over there and send around 2.000€ back home I would be happy. Of course I would't say no to much more, but not at any cost.
Having said this I read all the last posts about the different brokers. It's a shame that our lovely profesion has to live with this brokers thing but it is how things work nowadays :( It's not clear to me wich one is better, I usually don't pay much credit for the first advice because it could be interested but this attacks against RAL worry me because we are talking about our money, our health and our lives, and these are no things to play with. If I had to make a decision within the next 2 minutes I woul go with Parc but I want to ask these guys who talk bad about RAL; I can understand anyone can have a bad experience with anything and talk subsequently bad about it, but do you think the RAL pilots are living such experience as you did today?
Thaks all for reading.

[ia1166]

We are all equal once here. You have to go with who offers you the job at the end of the day.

In reality its not hugely different. You can buy extra insurance to make up the difference. The other issues are not life threatening, just annoying.

If you're happy enough to leave your home country, family and friends, and just send 2000 Euro home a month then good for you. It would bankrupt some of us. Financially and emotionally.

[Taildragger Pilot]

Well, I guess I did not made the point clear, 2000€ to cover my fix expenses back home (maybe some more, didn't really calculate it) the rest to spend nicely in my everyday enjoyment.
And that brings me another question...how much can I spend every month in living? I have no children so no school is needed. Housing is a little expensive (maybe around 2000€/month, rent, expenses and maid?) but the rest is ok, isn't it?
I'm trying to read as much as I can about the country, just starting to know a couple of things.
Another question. I see all the jobs are for the Hanoi base, any chance for HMC? Which place is better for a nice country-style living? Is this possible in Vietnam living reasonably close to the airport (whichever city I'm base at?)
thanks for taking the time to read and respond :ok:

[Dream Land]

Taildragger, well of course we can't sit over here and answer a lot of your inquiries about the agency differences in a couple of sentances, let's just say that conditions have gotten better over here due to competition.

Agencies aside, it's impossible to predict which people will enjoy the atmosphere here without really knowing them well. All pilots now go to Hanoi, that is the policy, some negative opinions have been posted, I can tell you that after living in Vietnam for over six years, that Hanoi is a great city and I could be just as happy there, but now my roots are in HCM.

I feel your description of what kind of operation you'd like describes life here, laid back in comparison to Western operations, yes, not too laid back, yes again, and improving by the day.

Management is slowly improving all aspects of the operation, equipment, training, maintenance all are making improvements each year.

No need to do a lot of studying about the culture here, that is the best part of the experience.

You seem a bit interested in a rural setting, and near the airport, well you are in luck, since the airport is in the country side, most others live in the nearby neighborhoods of the Hanoi Sheraton West Lake. I think you would get a bit bored out there, but you could live there very cheap.

And as far as your budget goes, you could easily send that kind of income back and live a great lifestyle.

Cheers, D.L.

[ia1166]

What do you mean by country style living?

Mostly, everybody lives in apartments. Or they share a house.

Hanoi is fine, but it's 45mins to an hour by crew bus to the airport. Which isn't counted for rest requirements. And during tet its a major headache. 2 hours?

I'm not sure you could live by the airport. There's nothing there. And where would you park? It's not really an option.

You don't actually get much time off to enjoy country style living even if you could get it.

Are you employed at the moment? If you are in a good job i'd seriously recommend coming out to have a look before you jump ship.

Just my two pence worth.

[Chunks]

Any chance of getting upgraded if one is a P2 on ATR?

[captain.weird]

Someone here who knows the e-mail of the office-recruiters? I want to send my resume to them for an internship.

[Dream Land]

Internships handled through Rishworth Aviation.

[captain.weird]

Rishworth Aviation is only accepting maintanence crew applications, they don't have any office crew possibilities. Can't find it at the site of Vietnam Airlines either. Do you have to be a Vietnamese to apply for these kind of jobs at Vietnam Airlines?

[Dream Land]

Low time or 0 time on type crews will be on contract through Rishworth, but one must be accepted through other channels, such as a relative working for the company already, I am not aware of any other way to apply, but I could be wrong.

Cheers, D.L.

[triple_2]

Hi everybody.

Working in Europe at the moment for a lo-co and looking for something new. Saw that parc is looking for pilots with VAC. I'm A320 FO with 3000 tt of which 2500 bus, would it make sense for me to do it? Any possibilities for a command there after some time? I'm incredibly bored here..

Advice appreciated :ok:

[Fly4Fun]

There's any improvement on terms offered by VA? Any pay increase?

Many thanks in advance
Happy landings to all :ok:

[tknapp]

Any news on better pay. How can they keep the pay so low and hope to get pilots when everywhere else pays more

[Luke SkyToddler]

Really Tknapp? Everywhere else pays more? Can you tell us who they are?

Outside the Chinese mainland I can't even think of one. And I haven't noticed a great rush of pilots leaving VAC to head north :hmm:

[tknapp]

Just for starters Korean, Ana, Cebu and multiple carriers in the ME

[USMCProbe]

Plus Asiana, several Hong Kong airlines, NAS, Tiger, Jetstar Singapore, ANA, Singapore Cargo, Jetstar Vietnam pays about the same, Air Asia pays about the same but rising rapidly. The only airlines that I know that are hiring expats that pay less are the really dodgy airlines in Malaysia and Indonesia.

Vietnam Airlines is a reasonable secure job for the contract world. They are also a fairly lax on background checks and documentation when you get hired. They also UPGRADE FO's, and I heard they are upgrading a bunch of them now as they can't recruit enough expat Captains.

A couple of the Chinese carriers just bumped the pay to 18.5k a month, plus overtime. Most of the rest will probably soon follow. Unfortunately these are not secure jobs, and extremely difficult to get in the first place. I really wouldn't recommend them, and I am there now.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Come on guys I don't know what you're smoking, but there is no way that Jetstar Pacific (or any Jetstar airline), Air Asia, Tiger or any other "low cost" operator on earth, pays anything like VAC. That is just straight up B.S. and you know it, I don't even have to quote the figures, anyone who's interested can go straight onto PPJN and check them out. Especially when you consider the basic for VAC is a 6 + 2 contract and all of those others are either 4 or 6 weeks leave per annum - you'd have to be on a 6+1 or 10+1 contract with VAC to make it comparable in terms of annual leave and hours flown. In which case your basic with VAC as A320 skipper would be around $US13,000 or $14,000. VAC is multiple thousands of dollars ahead it's not even close, even before you factor cost of living in a place like Singapore.

NAS, Flydubai, Air Arabia, EY / EK / QR / take your pick of the sandpit : they are all between $12 - $14 K total package for LHS. So really the choice is between a hot boring third world country where a beer costs $10, or an interesting third world country with a quite nice climate, where a beer costs .30 cents.

"Several Hong Kong airlines" - I call B.S. on that one too, unless you are talking about the Cathay "A" or "B" scale which is long gone. The only way into CX/KA now is a cadet S/O. Hong Kong Airlines doesn't pay anything like as much as VAC.

Korean Air - very similar salary wise, and the 8 days off consecutive / month is pretty cool, it's probably the "other" gold plated long term contract job out there, along with VAC. If you can pass the 80% fail rate line training, then I wish you all the best :ok:

Asiana - according to their own website, total package for A320 F/O is $6500 and captain $10,500 - so not even close. Long haul is even further behind.

ANA - yep I'll give you that - pay is comparable to VAC and in captain positions, might be slightly more. F/O positions, looks like a bit less. And as we all know, the cost of living in Tokyo is quite similar to 'nam :hmm:

Don't get me wrong I'm all in favour of a pay rise and if they give one I'll take it gladly, but there's no point acting all cool and bitching about how low the pay is compared to what else is out there, because the facts don't support the bitching.

[152wiseguy]

Could be tknapp was referring to the ATR fleet. They are way behind when you consider other turboprop pic contracts. However like you say the 6 - 2 and relative job security might make up for the salary for some people.

[USMCProbe]

Luke;
Here are some recent figures. All in USD. All are 320 jobs, or will hire 320 Captains.

NAS 16k for 6/2
ANA 16k 5/3 Average pay over 5 years
KAL 12.2K 5/3 plus free accomodation
Asiana 10.5 5.5/2.5 free accomodation
Tiger 14k non-commuting
Jetstar 14k non-commuting (Singapore)
Jetstar 10.8 6/2 (vietnam)
Cebu 12k+ 6/2 Changing daily and going up rapidly
Hong Kong Airlines 15k But this might no longer be accurate
Chinese 320 gigs are averaging 16.5k
I don't know the exact figures for Air Asia but I believe it is above 10k.


Everyone of these jobs pays for overtime as well, which makes the VAC job even less competitive. The only way VAC becomes competitive is if you work 9/1 or 10/1. 10 weeks in a row in Saigon would drive me nuts.

I did enjoy my time at VAC, and might go back someday. But the pay right now is too low for me as well. As far as places to live for a contract job, Saigon is worse than any of the above places except NAS (Saudi). Despite the bad rep that China gets, the cities are modern and comfortable, and the pollution is getting cleaned up rapidly. Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou/Shenzhen are all decent places for expats to live, with thriving expat communities. Much better than Saigon.

Why go to VAC?

FO pay is pretty high. (Big +)
They upgrade FO's. (Very Big +)
You can tell your buddies you've been to Nam
flexible time off (sometimes)
you've never been to outer space
Flying is fun
You enjoy MEL's, and like to memorize as many as possible. (Deactivated brakes, no APU, etc)

Why not go?

Low pay for Captains
No overtime pay
your not culturally "sensitive"
horrible commute, except for Aussies
You can't ride a motorcycle

The above are just my opinion of course, except for the pay rates which are accurate as of now, or very close.

[fingerstyle]

What USMCProbe says is very true about 320 PIC in VAC.
You will be flying 1000 hours a year in 320, you have my words!!!
You will be flying 3 or even 4 sectors in one day very very often, you have my words!!!
You will be flying 5 or 6 days in a row, all turn around flights with no over night in out station, very very often, and once again, you have my words!!!

Yes, the living cost is Saigon is cheaper than all other cities, but the quality of life is also much much lower than all other cities! So it is really:"You pay what you get" game. You pay less for a beer in Saigon, cause you make less money in VAC. It's very true for a 320 PIC in VAC. And this is exactly why they "only allow" upgrade expat FO in 320 fleet.

BTW, did I mention that you have to pay for all the training cost for the upgrade, and during the upgrade training(3~4 months) you wont have any income, and after the upgrade your salary will be reduced for 10% for the first year as 320 PIC, and after all this ****, you are still to be bonded for 3 years...
Man...why you dont just go to Air Asia for the 320 upgrade?

But for the 330/777 expat PIC, the story is a little bit different.
The salary is actually more or less the same with other airlines, considering you wont get overtime and the basic working pattern is based on 6/2. So if you wanna enjoy and relax a bit, as a 330/777 expat PIC, instead of flying 1000 hours a year for making big overtime, than its very likely that you will have a good time in VAC.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Damn, some of you guys would get into a jacuzzi full of naked supermodels, and complain because the water was too hot :hmm:

Crying about "quality of life", for christ sake what would it take to make you happy?

I live in a beautiful big 5 bed villa in the expat district, we've got a full time maid and a gardener ($300 a month). We go out to bloody good restaurants and bars every weekend - last friday night it was steaks and cocktails here (http://www.aulacdobrazil.com/main.html/lang=en) and then $50 sunday lunch (with bottomless Veuve Clicquot, lobsters and caviar) here (http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/intercontinental/en/gb/locations/hotel-features/dining/restaurants/hochiminhcity). My kid goes to a really top school here (http://www.bisvietnam.com/home.php), I'll be taking him for a swim in the pool and a run in the playground here (http://www.riverside-apartments.com/) this afternoon, which is also where my very nice gym is. My wife and her buddies go spend $5 for an hour long manicure / pedicure / massage two or three times a week here (http://thaodienvillage.com/). Last time we had a week off, we went here (http://www.diamondbayresort.vn/en-US/index.cco) for some scuba diving with these guys (http://www.divevietnam.com/).

That's all off the top of my head without even trying, and obviously I'm not into the nightclubbing / singles scene, which is the biggest attraction of all for a lot of guys here.

I guess some people will turn over every stone to find something to bitch about, but as far as I'm concerned, we live like kings, don't count the cost of anything, we still have $2 or $3,000 left over every month to send home to the investment property - and I'M A DAMN F/O!! The upgrade, if and when it comes, will be a very nice addition to the retirement fund, but it's not really going to affect the lifestyle I already have, money wise.

Obviously it's different strokes for different folks, but my mates who live in very small apartments in HK or Singapore, have come here and been blown away by how we live. Captains who come here and cry about how much everything sucks, I really don't get it at all. And anyone who'd choose an outfit like NAS over this place, needs their head examined.

[USMCProbe]

Luke;
Please re-read my post. The numbers are accurate, unless I said otherwise. Why? I have 7 months left on my current contract, and looking at other contracts. The numbers I posted are from contract agencies in the last 30 days.

Not Luke:

All of us are different, with different personnel requirements. I am happy you are happy in Saigon. About half the pilots that get a job there are not, and leave in the first year. I am one of the "other" half, that stayed. And I would go back someday, but right now the pay is not competitive with other gigs I can get as a 320 skipper. Just this morning I talked to another former VAC skipper, and he says the same. He would love to go back, but not to make 65% of the money he can make somewhere else. 10% less - no problem. But not 5k a month.

VAC treated me great, it is a reasonably secure job, and it is probably, without a doubt, the best place for a 320 FO to become a Captain, at least in the contract world.

It is a great job. VAC, like all airlines, is trying to figure out how to get pilots to work for them, for less. VAC's strategy is to get some poor smuck low time Euro-FO to pay them 50K USD for an upgrade, then pay them less than a PIC, with a 3 year bond. It is working, both for them, and the FO's. I give both a thumbs up. The airline gets cheap skippers, and the FO's get a command. Brilliant.

But that is keeping me from going back. No worries. Lots of other jobs that pay much more, in better places to live. Maybe someday it will change, maybe not.

[olepilot]

Regarding if VAC is good or not I would say it all boils down to one big issue.

Looking back I what I miss from Nam is the private life. Luke Skytoddler gave a very accurate picture I would say.

What I don't miss is the time travel 50 years, at least, backwards you do if you come from a decent company, regarding flight safety, CRM and some kind of job security.
Don't get me wrong, this is not bashing of pilots from the "third world". Some of the guys I met was also the best and most professional ones I've ever met and some was the worst. As it is with a mix of guys from all over the globe.
What I'm talking about is this.
<Step on the wrong persons toes and you're immediately out. For whatever reason there could be. FO got fired because he annoyed the chief pilots son. Had absolutely nothing to do with flight safety, or even flying. I got my contract terminated because young FO with substandard English but right dad thought we were illegal fuel wise.
<Have a mishap, technical or operational, do everything right and according to the books and you're out or grounded anyway.
<Before going to work pray to whoever you believe in that nothing will happen during today's flights because the colleagues you're working with aren't able to communicate in English.
<Forever argue with people that see the MEL as a hindrance that should be cheated in the most convenient way.

[USMCProbe]

Olepilot;
I agree 100%, but unfortunately "blame the foreigner" is the unwritten rule in the vast majority of the world, outside of maybe 20 countries or so. Not just flying, but civil law as well. That is a risk we take when we leave our "real world" jobs and head out for some fun an adventure in wild west of contract flying.

I would like to say it is worth it, but then I haven't been "blamed" for anything yet. I am sure I would feel otherwise if it happened to me.

[fedba]

Hi guys
From anyone in VN at the moment, what's the chance of getting 5/3 or 4/4 on the 320 (Capt). I asked Parc this a while ago but they were pretty vague about the chances.
Also is there any chance of getting onto the 330 from 320? I have 4000+ command on 320.

Thanks

[UALSIC]

5/3 and 4/4 is almost impossible to get right now on the 320 since we are short CPTs. Some are leaving for other contracts or permanent jobs.

Not saying it doesn't happen but just not at this time. A window every once in awhile opens up and people scurry on over there for the better Roster and pay. QOL is night and day between the 320 and 330 fleets especially for CPTs.

In general, NOTHING happens here quick - just be patient and hope you don't piss some local FO off that has a powerful last name in the meantime. :ok:

[UALSIC]

Olepilot;
I agree 100%, but unfortunately "blame the foreigner" is the unwritten rule in the vast majority of the world, outside of maybe 20 countries or so. Not just flying, but civil law as well. That is a risk we take when we leave our "real world" jobs and head out for some fun an adventure in wild west of contract flying.

I would like to say it is worth it, but then I haven't been "blamed" for anything yet. I am sure I would feel otherwise if it happened to me. .........

I blame you for giving business cards out to other guys girlfriends on the back of their moto-bikes at stop lights. :D

[ia1166]

Guys Luke is still in his honeymoon period maybe?

And i guess he's not on the 320.

Just my assumptions

A 5 bedroom villa as an FO? Must be on 777 salary or maybe 330. With all the time off that gives.

I'd treat it all with a grain of salt to be honest.

[ia1166]

Anyway luke. If you blab about how good life is on this forum, your lovely friends in New Zealand will cut your salary again.

God only knows they need it to pay Randy's Visa Bill!!!!

[vivek67]

Hi,
Anybody got any info on flying the A330 fleet in VNA? Like how many hours per month....days per month.....no. of night stops etc & future of the fleet in the company.
Thanks.

[pezetaroi]

Any fresh news on the current hiring process???

[TopGun 24]

Hey Everyone,
Where do you think I cud fit in? 9500TT, 1800PIC Military A/C, 5500 Hrs WideBody FO time of wch 3000Hrs on present A/C (777).looking to join up as an FO or Senior FO and then a fast upgrade to Left Seat...Thanks

[Dihedral1]

Why do you think, your qualifications would put you on the fast track program?
Many 320/330/77 expats FOs at Vietnam with equal or better waiting their turn.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Reading earlier today VN is advert for 777 DEC's in Hanoi at $13,200/month.

First time I've seen the 777 on their adverts in many years. Must be getting the 787's thus the vacancies?

K

[guemes]

Would be interested to hear from any former sandpit pilots now working at VN to compare and contrast VN vs. EK, QR, etc..

Lots said about pay and such but wondering about lifestyle, rostering, cockpit culture, management, safety culture, etc..

[pezetaroi]

Seems no active VNA pilots in this forum... :bored:

[Luke SkyToddler]

well guemes there's a pretty big difference between EK and QR so, which one would you like it to be compared to?

Plenty of ex QR guys here, and only a couple of EK that I'm aware of. I don't know anyone that's gone the other way, except a couple of old guys who reached 60 and went to the-airline-we're-not-allowed-to-talk-about so they could fly til age 65.

[pezetaroi]

Happy in VNA, Luke?

[Dihedral1]

I suspect Luke is on the WB fleet, so his info is somewhat different, on the A321 fleet a number of guys this year have gone to the nameless airline and to EK, and more are waiting for a chance.
VN pays nothing more than your salary and good luck trying to get overtime, school fees are on average +$1000 a month raising to almost $1800 per month for a senior in high school (field trip, laptop etc ). Whilst the cost of living is not that of Dubai, it has risen considerably in the last 7 years.. Factor in the official inflation rate over that period +10% annually compounded and a basic salary 10.8K for 6/2 Capt 321, if your a single guy it's ok, but if you have kids and a wife, not so much. Unfortunately guys often overlook the benefit of a provident plan, until it's to late. For FOs this is one of the best paying contracts out there and they offer a path to the left seat, albeit minus the cost of training and a bond and a 10% pay cut for the first year (approx $60K total)...
As with any airline that expands too rapidly, one calamitous incident may cause the CAAV to revisit the rapid upgrades and put the brakes on! As investment advisors often say "past fund performance is no indicator of future fund performance", there is no guarantee that the upgrade path will continue as it has.

[pezetaroi]

Thanks for The info, Dihedral... So basically what you're telling me is to skip VNA and apply in the nameless airline? BTW, I'm a a320 cap... I was kind of atracted to Hanoi and the low cost of living vs. the high cost of the sandpit...

[Dihedral1]

Talk to the agencies...:ok:

[A330AV8R]

hello

Anyone here have a contact email for VNA besides the ones from rishworth and what is posted on their website ? The latter doesn't go through !

Please inbox me the same if you do .

Thanks in advance :ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

Dihedral's right, and I'm right too I guess ... he's on A321 and I'm widebody so I appreciate we have different points of view. A321 has always been the fleet that works the hardest, does the most sectors and has the greatest turnover and the greatest cause for annoyance in terms of roster disruptions, fatigue etc. Having said that, everyone's working hard this year, I've done 960 hours in last 12 months, only did about half that the first year I joined.

Lifestyle here, yes I still like it and there's no way on earth as a family man, that I would leave here for anything based in the sandpit. Obviously there's some very tempting money on offer up in China these days but there's a reason for that, it's a much more difficult place to live and every sim / medical is a roulette wheel whether you keep your job or not.

If anything the quality of life in 'nam has gotten better overall, it seems every 10 minutes in the expat area these days, they're knocking down an old house to put up a new western style cafe or wine shop or something. We've got much better groceries and even good quality organic food places, Mcdonalds and Starbucks is here in a big way now, there's a heap of new bars and supermarkets and stuff now that were never here 5-10 years ago.

I agree with dihedral in that costs have gone up, a LOT, in the last few years. My kid's school fees have risen from $10,000 to $16,000 p.a. in the last 4 years. I was clearing out the cupboard the other day and found a pizza delivery menu from 2010 from my local, a margarita used to cost VND90,000 now it's 220,000. Electric and water etc also gone up. Having said that, rents have actually gone down I think, in HCM anyway, because of the glut of new build apartments that have come on the market in An Phu / Phu My Hung, these days you can get a really good 2 bed apartment for $7-800 and a 3 bed for $1000, it used to be hard to find anything good western quality for less than $12-1400.

There are certainly some major challenges ahead for the airline particularly with Vietjet snapping at their heels - they are massively expanding, undercutting them on price, and more immediate problem for VNA is that they are poaching a heap of our Vietnamese pilots and engineers. Mostly A320 guys of course which is another huge rostering headache for that fleet. The main airports are getting saturated with parking space and, because the local ATC is so bad and applies such huge separations between landing and departing aircraft, it's pretty much every flight now out of Hanoi / HCM where you have to sit at the holding point for 15 minutes waiting for a takeoff clearance. They need some major infrastructure upgrades on that side of things very very soon.

It's still one of the most secure contract jobs in the world, with the B787s and A350s both arriving next year there's going to be jobs galore. Total aircraft numbers are still increasing for many years to come. The next problem will be that the old 777s and 330s are starting to get retired in 2 or 3 years, and the expats on those fleets are waiting with great interest to see what kind of offer we get for transitioning onto the new types.

Command upgrades ... big news in town is that for the first time in VNA history they are upgrading some 777 FO's right to left on type, historically it's always been upgrade to the A321. They're very long serving guys who've been waiting patiently for their turn but, still, nice to dodge that A321 bullet. As things are at the moment, it's almost hard to justify paying for the upgrade onto A321 as a widebody FO, the salary's about the same and the lifestyle is significantly worse.

So overall marks out of 10, I'd still give it a solid "7". If they would sort out a few quality-of-life issues with rostering and staff travel and give a pay rise that matches the cost of living - specially for the A321 boys and girls - it would go back up to 8's and 9's.

[Luke SkyToddler]

All you guys asking for contact emails for the airline direct or if there's a way to bypass the agencies - forget about it - the answer is no.

The only way to get employed directly by the airline is on a local Vietnamese contract which you don't want to do. And even if you did, you can't, because you need a Vietnamese passport.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Luke ...

That was a fantastic brief on flying and lifestyle for Vietnam Airlines!! One of the best I've read on Pprune !

Very much appreciated sir!

Kap

[pezetaroi]

thanks for the time taken on those lines Luke, greatly appreciated :D

[Luke SkyToddler]

You're welcome.

By the way pezetaroi I just realized you're the one who started this thread back in 2007 - have you seriously been been agonizing over it for the last SEVEN YEARS and still not made a decision? :eek:

[fatcadet]

No doubt a well time consuming writtened information. Thank you. Happy flying.

[fullforward]

That's what PPRUNE is all about!
Great post my friend. Thank you so much!:D:D

FF

[pezetaroi]

Quite an observer, Luke... LOL! Indeed, back in 2007 I was looking for some adventure, now I'm searching for good income + a decent place to live in + a relative stable job... and it seems that VNA has that...

cheers ;-)

[fourgolds]

Hey Luke , please check your pm's.


Many thanks
4g's

[Luke SkyToddler]

haha you and a million others mate, I should start my own agency, I think Akbar al Baker and Tim Clark would have a meltdown if they saw the contents of my inbox right now :D:D:D:D:D

[Dihedral1]

Luke gave a very balanced view of things.
If you read again, whilst he gave it a solid 7.
I reiterate the A321 fleet is a world away from the WB fleet
Lifestyle wise. Rents in Hanoi where you would be based are not falling. I am neutral in terms of join or not. Some guys love it, some hate it and some tolerate it because its the best they can do. Whilst Luke gave a superb overview, I was just trying to dispel the notion that Vietnam was super cheap, cheaper than Dubai yes, but if your a family, no schooling, no housing, etc, no medical insurance seems to be the trend of late (mostly),
So there are a lot of additional costs, as Luke said a WB FO earns the same as a 321 Capt , a pay increase (also realistically achievable O/T) particularly on the 321, a revamped scheduling system and personnel, and implementation of proper staff travel benefits (Skyteam etc).
Well now that would be "come on in the waters warm:ok:"

[fourgolds]

Tks , Luke for taking the time., Your're a gent .Had to laugh , but not surprised at the interest you have received.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Dihedral…

Thanks also for your input as well!

It seems there certainly is an interest among us here for VN. I've read other posts that that VN wants to grow quite significantly over the years ahead which certainly bodes well for those of us who are interested.

One additional question I have…

How has the Agency (Rishworth) been with things like being upfront with those of you who are there, supporting you if issues arise? And what about contact-ability to the Rishworth rep if you need to have some questions answered? And finally, since I've never worked for an agency before, what exactly is the role of Rishworth once a pilot is there in training or on the line?

Thanks for the input!

Kap

[Luke SkyToddler]

^^^ reiterate what dihedral said. again. I'm not even HAN based so I take no responsibility for anyone's disappointment or claim to being some kind of guru about VNA.

Also on further reflection ... I think I was talking as much about the country as the job, in my previous post when I was scoring it 7 out of 10. The job's only a small part of the picture.

- If you're the kind of captain who gets driven crazy by nothing less than operational and SOP perfection, don't come here.
- If you're aspiring management, or have a captain-is-god complex, don't come here.
- If your idea of fun is sitting by the fireplace drinking port, or polishing the Bentley on your immaculately manicured driveway of your country house, don't come here.
- If you can't handle maximum hours and chaotic rostering, don't come here.

- If you're the kind of guy who goes to work, gets on with everyone, does the job with minimum fuss, goes home and then likes to go out and spend their very large salary partying in a cheap, filthy, fascinating asian mega city, then you'll like it here.
- If you're a divorced horny old captain looking for a cute young thing to take care of you in your retirement, then you'll like it here.
- If you want a base to explore asia and do stuff like hop off to thailand for the weekend for some diving or cambodia for jungle exploring or something, then you'll like it here.

I'm sure you all get the picture. Take the job for what it is and use it as a platform to go have some fun in your life. This place isn't everyone's cup of tea but if you approach it with the right attitude, it's as fun as a barrel of monkeys :ok:

[Dihedral1]

Luke's pretty much got the bases covered.
Without trying to offend, if your looking for Swiss Precision, German Engineering or Zero MELs....:=
I have looked at Korean Air planes, that are not new but seem immaculate. Unfortunately looking at our 777s doesn't leave you feeling warm and fuzzy..
Luke dealt with the infrastructural issues before, Vietjet and even Jetstar are all on fairly aggressive expansion drives, alongside the planned doubling of the WB fleet size at VN. (Delays, frustration, schedule changes, but that's everywhere I guess)
After Indonesia, Vietnam, I think is the next largest growing aviation market in the world, so I suspect, for a good few years to come, there will be opportunities within the Commercial Aviation Market, along with the Private Jet Market (very soon), we have expats now flying Grand Caravans on Floats between tourists spots.
Anybody looking to come here must be flexible, as that is how the Vietnamese treat all things- Red light! No worries, I'll just mount the sidewalk (pedestrians be damned) and bypass that silly thing whilst going in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic... :ugh:
China offers some very good money, because the need is so great and their CAAC seem to hinder rather than facilitate expat hiring..
I would say to guys, if your not desperate for a job right now!!
Hold off, there is a pilot crisis looming (Vietjet is already poaching pilots, and VN have responded with more pay and vacation for local pilots) the first offering from VN in response to a new expat contract has been met, with a very cool reception (Spring air et al being beneficiaries) especially on the 321.
Already the manning on the 321 is at critical levels, it won't take much to get to the point that flights are canceled. Then, we will see a reasonable contract, maybe even a signing bonus for the the newcomers..

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Does Rishworth provide medical insurance to family members?

[pezetaroi]

Interesting points of view, Dihedral... thanks! What I do perceive in both cases is that none of you is saying, "stay away", something commonly read in Chinese forums. So, after all, it does seem like a good choice... Here goes another one, how much longer do you think VNA will be in need of expats?

[never_home]

Fascinating stuff, Luke & Dihedral.

Thank you.

If it isn't too difficult a question to answer, what would you consider to be a reasonable (but not over the top) budget for monthly living expenses?

Thanks again.

[alloverthesky87]

What about recent advertising ATR FO? Anybody heard something?

[Dihedral1]

That's to broad a question in my opinion.
Are you single, single & commuting, family, family but commuting.
Where are you from, what are you accustomed to, what can spouse tolerate.
You can rent from a room from $400 to a Villa for $5000 plus
snap.com.vn (no affliation) that's HCM, Hanoi same or more.
Are you going live dangerously ride a motorbike,
or taxi it or rent a car/driver or even buy a car (it can all be done)
Kids: private school $€£¥!!
Spouse boredom begats shopping£€
Local girlfriend(s) could have beer to Dom Perignon tastes, is that additional to spouse or not!!
Are you going to eat local or at chillsaigon.com
Pilots seem to live the full spectrum. Some very flash/bling some a very modest more local style

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

HOUSING:
I live in Phu My Hung, about 40 min drive to the airport. With taxi 240000 VND aprox 10$. An apartments costs around 500-700$ for 2 bed room and 1000-1500$ for penthouse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq15iIO2b-

TRANSPORTATION:
I go to work by scooter. Is not so bad as people say (actually I love driving my scooter). Just be careful and don't drive to fast. Its very easy to get a license for scooter. No need for exams or tests. Let me know if you need contact details.

INTERNET: I pay 30$ for ADSL 3MBs

ELECTRICITY: Aprox 100$ per month (3 A/C running)

CABLE TV: 6$ per month

HOSPITAL: Vey good medical care in Vietnam (Better then in Europe), but it will cost you dearly if you are not insured. If you come to Vietnam its very important to have a good medical insurance. Best hospitals are Hanh Phuc Hospital (Singaporean) and FV Hospital.

QUALITY OF LIFE: Compared to Europe, I consider the quality of life as excellent for expats compared to Europe. If you have a wife she might find it a bit difficult in the beginning to find friends but a very good way for her to make new friends is ILV. Its a club for expat wifes in Saigon.

[alloverthesky87]

What about recent advertising ATR FO? Anybody heard something?

[Dihedral1]

For persons interested in Vietnam in general!
Watch the trend....
In China, Spring Air (being private and profit driven) was first to revamp their contract, you can earn $18.8K net on a 6/3 contract. West Air, Lucky, Beijing Capital, Hainan and China Southern all followed suit.
Air Arabia today's announces new commuting contracts in ME, how long before nameless, EK and QR are forced to do the same?
Korean Air has been advertising for the last 7 years (you would think it's the worlds largest airline) Asiana advertising as well.
A bunch of carriers in Japan advertising, pretty basic, all commuting, but nobody is going, hear JCAB is reviewing the 6 months of training to something more realistic.
Vietjet, Jetstar and VNA all offer a pretty basic contract at 6/2 10.8K (320/321), resorting to poaching local pilots, as expats not responding well in almost 2015 to what was on offer in 2007. (Despite central bankers fear of deflation, I have seen some pretty big inflationary advances in prices Globally in those 7-8 years).
Sorry Peze, in the last 6 months I haven't seen nearly the complaints out of China, that I used to, I think they are waking up to the requirement to treat expats decently (are there still complaints, sure, but Beijing's Global plans call for a robust Aviation Market, so it will improve).
Vietnam operates on looking at today.. Today we haven't parked any planes, but.. (36 widebodies plus more 321 and ATR @ VN), 60 firm, options for 32 @ Vietjet, Jetstar growing from modest 5 to 18 a/c. So there is a lot of demand and relatively little interest...
To put this in perspective, VN has a population 3 times the size of Canada but all 3 airlines in Vietnam don't add to the size of West Jet, much less Air Canada (fleet numbers).
So hold off, something better (contract wise) will have to be offered.
They won't let Gulf carriers and Air Asia/X steal their home market...
Someone asked how long will they hire expats, my response how long has Saudi Air been hiring expats??
Anyway vacation finished back to the grind. Talk again in 6 weeks..

[never_home]

Thanks all for those useful replies.

I am married with older kids and would intend to semi-commute, i.e. maintain a home in the UK and return a few times a year but also get involved in a life in SE Asia. My wife would do the same. We do not have massively expensive tastes but I would like a clean spacious apartment/ house in which to retreat from the hustle and bustle of the city.

Now you may think I am a fool, and please do say so if you think it, but I am currently a relatively senior BA shorthaul Captain on a full time contract. BA is going hell for leather down the low cost road and is ripping up its agreements with its pilots. BA, because of their extensive network are able to work their flight crew extremely hard and many of us are bouncing off legal limits with EASA FTLs just round the corner. Nightstops aplenty but mostly just 13 hours off before another 12 hour duty. All this in an atmosphere of weariness and extreme low morale.

I have another 6 years to go before I hang up my hat for good and I would like to finish by enjoying my flying again. At present the VN contract falls short of enticing but if they were to compete with the pay in China, it could be tempting. My question is; is it worth considering leaving a stable but unpleasant employer to join one that may be much the same. What is VN like to work for, management and colleagues alike? What does a "normal" roster look like? How flexible are the scheduling staff? How many sectors per day and nightstops per month? Are the sim checks chop or train? How many ADDs are carried and is the maintenance a worry? Answers to all those sorts of questions would be gratefully received.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, guys.

Thanks

[NG708]

For those of you contracting there, what is the current feeling with Rishworth? Are they looking after you? Being UkI based, I've been looking at the Parc contract which seems to include quite a few benefits, although I would like to seem full salary in the first year.

[Luke SkyToddler]

never_home I could answer all those questions but I'd rather just say "you're a fool". Do NOT leave a senior position in BA for the A321 fleet here.

NG708 the whole "which agency" thing is pretty over rated - except DPI who suck, because they pay their pilots a few hundred bucks less. PARC and Rishworth are very similar, pay the same, both offer medical and support services and both have good guys here on the ground to help their pilots out. In practice these days, we all crash each other's agency dinners and drink each other's beers and share each other's gossip and the Rishworth guy helps out the PARC pilots and vice versa.

alloverthesky87 - there's no expat FO's on the ATR fleet any more, and no plans to resume recruitment I don't think. If I was you I'd check out the Bali based job with Garuda :ok:

[Greenlights]

What about recent advertising ATR FO? Anybody heard something?

one exemple : the last ATR pilots in vietnam airlines, have not been renewed.
And now, it will be more and more the same case on airbus fleet.
Unfortunately IMO you would have better chances if you pay for a TR A320 than staying on ATR....