Vietnam Airlines (info please)

[Hook Down]

ia1166

I am confused by your last post so would you or anyone with Vietnam clear up a few things concerning the work schedule for a 320 F/O.

From what was posted earlier, I thought that you work for 6 weeks and during those 6 weeks you would get about 2 free days per week off. At the end of the last day of the 6 weeks, you would then get 14 straight days off prior to being scheduled for a flight. Do I understand this correctly here or are there some other catches?

What do you mean by rotation days? Are these part of your 14 days off or are these part of the weekly 2 days off you get while working? Do you normally get 2 days off per week during your 6 weeks?

Are there any limits to flight hours per week or month and if so then what are they? Thanks for the info.

[varigflier]

That seems to be the case for most airlines. Widebody flying seems to give you a little better quality of life.

[Tintin]

ia1166 I'm 100% with you. You always have to thinks trough before accepting a contract. A 6 weeks on /3 off or 11 to 15 per month like korean IS a true commuting contract. And for those at VN who does'nt live within there network well its a no brainer....

In a normal contract you have min 8 days off per month while the office boys and girls have 10 per month = 8x12=96
annual leave 43 days anything less is rubish since you are expat and need to go home total 139.

VN you say 72days and you get to buy a full fair ticket at the other end....

[ia1166]

2 days a week off? Sorry mate but no chuffing chance here buddy. The fom states 7 days off minimum a month. And 24 in 3 months. Well your 2 weeks off is called rotation here. But they also count as days off so you get just 7 days a month when you are here. And thats only if you are here for a full month. If you take your 2 weeks rotation across 2 months, then it all counts as days off so you are effectively entitled to no more days off that month. You do get a 36 hour break every 7 days, but as this can be from say 0900 on monday to 2100 on tuesday it doesn't mean its a day off. So during your 6 weeks you're only going to get a 36 hour break every 7 days, or 1 day a week. or in other terms during a 6 week work rotation you may only get 5 days off, ie 1 every 7 days.

The worst thing is going on rotation on say the 8th to the 22nd. They can make you work the full 8 days until you leave, the 36 hours off they owe you would then be part of your rotation, then when you come back they can make you work 6 days straight and then give you 1 day off (36 hour rule). and thats it for that month.

oh and if you think of going sick after 20 sectors in 5 days all at different times of the day because you've collapsed in fatigue, then they call it a day off and you're straight back into 6 days working when you report back for duty. As i say, utopia it ain't.

In answer to the 14 days off, yes you do get 14 days straight. But the Paris flight leaves at 0100 and rocks up in paris around 8 am. add on the tavelling home and thats your first day gone. the return flight leaves paris at 1400 and arrives 0700, you can't work the day of arrival so its your day number 14, so you need to leave paris on day 13, so if you're travelling from england you have to leave around 8am on day 13, which gives you only 11 days clear at home. Clear as mud? You have to look at it all carefully.

[ia1166]

On the subject of flight hours, well the expats here do all the 4 short sector days. This means you will normally do 8 to 12 hour days but only pick up 4 or 5 hours. So we rarely reach 90 hours a month. You will however do 55 hours a week duty, week in week out. Once you start nudging your duty hours they will get you in to do a very short flight. The game of rostering is to make you work every day as its good for the party, and you never ever get more than the minimum 7 days a month.

All i can say is if it was that good, they wouldn't be short of people. guys are always leaving, most without giving full notice, some guys lasted 3 weeks last year.

If it's real commuting you want, join Korean.

[Lost in Saigon]

If the B777 FO pay is $9,464 USD for the 6/2 roster, how much is it pro-rated for 5/3 or 4/4 roster?

[RemoveB4Flght]

is this training bond for initial training... or for upgrade training?

i have had some correspondance with no mention of a bond yet, just curious how that works

[Lost in Saigon]

The training bond is only for upgrade training.

[RemoveB4Flght]

I am considering an FO position, and if so I would set up over there, returning to the US only as needed to make family visits.

Are there many expats there who make a new home there? I currently fly from the US to Central and South America, as well as the Caribbean, and spend my days off exploring these countries. My idea would be to use my rotations to travel Asia and the South Pacific in the same manner.

I can understand how the 6 and 2 would pose headaches for those who want to spend time at home, however with the need to commute not so much an issue, would the extra money be worth less time off?

Also for a small, but reasonably nice apartment, what are typical living expenses? In other words, how much can I expect to pocket after paying bills

[Hook Down]

ia1166

You do get a 36 hour break every 7 days, but as this can be from say 0900 on monday to 2100 on tuesday it doesn't mean its a day off.

In the above situation, since you are working on both Monday and Tuesday and do not get a full day off, will you then get a full day off (0001-2400)somewhere in the week?

In other words, does the 36 hour break in the above specific scenario count towards your minimum 7 days off per month as 1 day off?

[ia1166]

If you're entitled to a day off then it will be 36 hour so it covers both requirements.

The 2 FOM rules are as i said.7 days a month minimum, 36 hours in a 7 day period, or if not then a 60 hour break in 10 days.

so if you come back from leave on the 3rd say, then you only get 4 more days off that month. Each of them will involve more than 36 hours but will include a day, which is midnight to midnight..

The worst things are taking all your leave in the middle of the month, which results in no more days off that month, or splitting your leave 1 week in one month and 1 week in the next.

It wasn't always like this. Most of us were here when the 7 days off was given pro rata. but it ain't like that now.

[rockandroll1]

And why do you guys accept this? 7 days off, unbeleivable!

[ia1166]

Erm, why? Almost everyone i know is looking at somewhere else to go. there is a high turnover here. The only way around it is to take the salary cut and go 5/3 or 4/4. To pre answer the next question, it's 17% for 5/3 and 33%for 4/4.
I think life is better in pacific though.

As i said, it wasn't always like this. there are guys who have been here 4years or more and are hoping it may go back to how it was, but begining to realise it won't, and the FNGs who think it's great for the first 6 months then bail out after a year.
The new carrot is to offer upgrades to anyone who will pay and sign a bond for 3 years to make them stay, instead of asking why quality guys are leaving.

It's the 20th and i've only had 3 days off this month so far. And i've been here all month. Go figure.

And the facts of staff travel. You get a free ecomomy upgradable ticket home 6 times a year, and a total of 6 id90s for immeadiate family. That's it. The guys get business maybe 70% of the time to Paris. not 99.99% as someone mentioned earlier. Sometimes you get bumped off completely. Then the fun really starts because they try to blame you for this and take more leave off you because you were late back.

Look it's not a bad place, but not that great either. What i've said is the truth.

In answer to the cost of living, where are you from? A small quality western style apartment will cost 1500+. A semblence of a western lifestyle 1000 a month on top. If you have kids, then don't expect to save much at all.

[Hook Down]

ia1166,

Thanks for the details about the schedule. I will have to seriously rethink whether I want to do this. I am not working nowhere near as hard right now as what I would be with Vietnam. Two benefits I do see are the take home pay and sleeping in your own bed pretty much every night.

How do most guys hold up with this workload? Are they pretty tired all the time or is the time off adequate? I am not planning on commuting, thankfully.

Also, is it possible to get a 3 on 1 off rotation?

[ia1166]

ok. your situation is exactly why i'm telling you how it is. you don't want to leave a good company to find yourself a lot worse off. For those with no job then it's no risk at all.

On the line expect to spend 3 days a week in hanoi. It's ok but its 1 hour from the airport. not a problem unless you are on minimum rest (11 hours) which will equate to 9 hours in the hotel. And no free breakfast. So you won't be home in bed every night. put this with being away on leave then your expensive apartment will be empty 50% of the time.

If you don't want to commute and just spend your time seeing asia on your time off then it is a great deal for you. life in HCMC can be fun. it is much cheaper than the west. but when you're working, you work hard. If you're after an upgade and then stay for 3 years then yes it is a good deal. After 3 years you'll have a bunch of command hours and can look at your options then.

But be prepared for a 1 week roster that comes out at 1800 on thursday for the friday. it then changes every 2 or 3 days, you only get 1 day a week off which you may not know about until the evening before. And a constant battle with rostering just to get the bare minimum that you are entitled to.

As an example. I've had 3 days off this month so far. When it all comes to a head end of next week when i tell them they owe me 4 days off in the last week, the day i did on standby earlier in the month will curiously change to a day off and i will have to bring in my printed roster to show them that it was a standby day. It just gets tedious after a while. I didn't have to keep every roster for the last year in my last company. i do now.

3/1 is possible but you still only get 6 free tickets a year. And i wouldn't recommend it because you will not get any days off at all.

I'm also curious as to who told you you'd be in your own bed every night. Thats' a complete lie.

[RemoveB4Flght]

ia... thanks for the "no bull" insight....

ironically enough, It looks like I won't be offered the position. I have a PIC bus type, with about 200 hours in the right seat, but PARC is hard and fast on the 1000 in type. I am on reserve right now and it would take me over a year to make up the difference.

it's ironic becuase I have zero ties or commitments here, would love to relocate overseas, am not afriad of flying... a lot.

there is a huge disparity between guys with magic numbers in their log books who can pick and choose jobs anywhere, and guys like me with the type ratings, but not the right amount of time. I have to BEG for flying here.

[NEDude]

Anyone know which agencies are doing contracts for Jetstar Pacific or if it is better to contact them directly?

[varigflier]

Anyone knows how long before they let you upgrade? Do you have to finish one contract or can you upgrade before that?

[iflysky]

So will they still bond you for an upgrade if you already have an A320 command type. I can see if you do not have a command type, but if you do it doesn't really make sense.
Secondly, why does Rish require 500 hrs on type and Parc 1000. The contracts are almost identical and obviously you land up at the same airline.

[RemoveB4Flght]

Haven't been able to find a lot on JetStar hiring or compensation... I found an e-mail address on the website, but have heard nothing back

[Lost in Saigon]

ia1166,

I was in Vietnam from 2003-2006 on the B767 and it was much better than what you describe. Back then the A320 fleet worked considerably harder than either the B767 or B777 fleet.

It sounds like you are on the A320.

How is it on the B777 now?

[ia1166]

B777. Totally happy as far as i know. I do know you LIS. well i'm pretty sure anyway and it ain't anything like when you and the canadians were here. The A320 is a constant battle. I used to recommend this place to my mates. Pretty much every skipper i know has been looking at somewhere else

[Hook Down]

ia1166

This was posted earlier on this thread:

A normal week has one or two days OFF(recently), so assuming five days of work:

Day 1. SGN-HKG-SGN
Day 2. SGN-PNH-VTE-HAN Layover in Hanoi (5 star hotel)
Day 3. HAN-VTE-PNH-SGN
Day 4. SGN-REP-SGN-HUI-SGN
Day 5. SGN-DAD-SGN-KUL-SGN
Day 6. OFF
Day 7. OFF

Generally all day flights, home at night.

The above was what I used to formulate what I thought conditions would be like with Vietnam on the 320. If this is a truly typical weekly schedule than I can handle it, even though it is definitely more work than where I am at right now.

I wouldn't be thinking of going to SGN but the large carrier I am working for is in deep financial crisis and is announcing big cuts in the coming year.

[ia1166]

Well that's not a typical roster i assure you. maybe a 1 week special but you don't get more than 7 days a month so how can you get 2 off a week? Someone is talking it up.

You rarly get 2 together, unless you take in choclates/presents/money. And those that do don't care that by doing so they are making their work collegues pick up their slackness.

They know who they are.

And home at night.???? all day flights???????is that person here???? What's his nickname and i'll find out who it is. He's pulling your chain. Or he's paying for a roster like that.

Most of us pull 20 sectors a week . One of the captains i know usually does 70 sectors/90 hours a month. Whoever is getting this roster is definately not pulling his weight.

Anyway i can't be bothered to look up whoever is spouting that drivel. Whoever it is they've been remarkably quiet to my tirade on here. Proves the point.

[cpt.parrot]

Hey Hook... I'm in the same boat as you, it sounds like even with the same company. My plan is to rack up as much 320 time as possible until the furlough comes. Rishworth has this contract with 500 hours in type, and I figure that should be doable by November. Just keep flying as much as possible and hope for the best.

[Dream Land]

Anyway i can't be bothered to look up whoever is spouting that drivel. Whoever it is they've been remarkably quiet to my tirade on here. Proves the point.
Right. :ugh:

[Dream Land]

ia1166, in addition, pilots are looking at this thread for information, not squabbling, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't make any wild ass assumptions because I don't get involved in your baiting. People are smart enough to see through the bs.

[ia1166]

right. and how is the happy chocolates for Lan doing for you. I've stood next to you as have many of us and watched you do it. Lan is getting fat Don't use your roster as an example for everyone else.

in case it's escaped your attention, most of us are rostered 2 to 3 nights a week in hanoi, so we're not home every night. And 2 days off a week? You're passing out incorrect information. If someone was to resign from his present company on the strength of your comments it wouldn't be very fair would it.

[tknapp]

Thats one of the first rules you learn in the aviation industry, do what you can for scheduling and they will help make your life a lot better in this industry most of the time. Look at SWA airlines they give pizza and drinks to ATC, and look at the treatment they get, everybody has to wait for them to taxi by. You cant fault someone for being smarter than you!

[ia1166]

for a company to do it for the better of the company is one thing. to do it out of your own pocket so you get more time off or just cushy day flights than your collegues which results in everyone working harder than you is not. If we all did that where would it stop. Should we all start paying the airline for the better flights? Maybe a bid line should be published and we can buy our roster every week.

The first thing you learn in life is that if everyone works together life is good for everyone.

Or are you really that selfish.

[stringbender]

What is the medical requirements.
Is it crazy like Japanese? Does anyone have documented information that explains the pass/fail requirements? I appreciate your reply.

[jumpdrive]

the medical here its quite simple & quick
top's on your 1st time it'll take you 2 hours
& thats 'cause you don't have a guide to take to you each room
if you happen to go alone that day
if not ask the any other expat that you might bump into
all is in 1 building except the xRay guy
who's on a different building (really old & crappy) a minute walk

but in th end is all very straight fwd
blood & urine sample 1st
eyes, ears, ecogram, brain stuff, cardio, xray
and some others that dont come to me now
but nothing stressful like chine or japan...............no way jose!

you'll have the results within 2 days

company does the rest for you

[angelgabriel]

hey guys,i don't know why some guys like to bitch,we are pilots....that means flying.not many airlines will pay a good salary and give you 6/2 or 4/4 or 5/3.
flying 70hrs a month is fair,for us xpat pilots we mostly fly the local routes.
i see that alot of guys getting 2 days off...so for the guys who are not happy and thing that you want to leave..pls go and stop bitching :=.
all airlines have their good and the bad,even the 5 star airlines.

[jumpdrive]

right ON man
bunch of whiners

[FLinfinity]

hey anyone know how long to the left seat on the 777

[Lost in Saigon]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think any contract pilot has ever done a right seat to left seat upgrade on the B777 at Vietnam Airlines.

So I would say the answer is a very long time.

[bob_bowne]

It has not happened, but almost all the 777 expat F/Os who want upgrade are on A320 command upgrade courses at the moment. :bored:

[varigflier]

So how long before they let you upgrade?

[ia1166]

No upgrades on the 777. and for those wanting upgrade on the 320, there are fos alread here ready, waiting, and more than capable so expect to stand in line for around a year. You can't stroll in and go to the front of the queue.

Don't shoot the messenger. What i've told you about the rostering is absolutely true. I've been here over 4 years. I returned from leave 5 weeks ago and have had exactly 5 days off. I'll show anyone my roster if they want. I wouldn't call that whining. When i was thinking of coming here some people here told me a lot of bs too. Don't be fooled.

All i'm saying is that if you are jumping ship from a mainline or legacy carrier you need to do the math on the 6/2 option. Most of my mates in europe average 10 days off a month on short haul ops, plus 36 days leave a year. Thats 156 days off a year. Guys it's more days off in total than you get here. Think about what you do on your days off during the month at home if you're in a first world country, coz most of your normal activities you can't do in HCMC. You can't even ride a bike around. sitting in a pub drinking cheap beer wears thin after a while. The nearset decent watersport beach is 4 hours drive away. There is a small rock climbing wall which is pretty neat. And golf is the same price as home if you play that.

If you're coming from the states, don't burn your bridges and try to keep your travel benefits. They've been talking about flying to the US since before i arrived. It hasn't happened yet and with current climate in the US i doubt they'll let it happen any time soon. We only have 1 american left here. The other 2 left and they didn't go home much when they were here. Too far and too expensive.

Jumpdrive, you haven't been here long have you. We all had a certain honeymoon period here too.

[Reepicheep]

Well, I'm sure we all appreciate hearing both sides, but which is it? I mean, two days off a week and only one layover in Hanoi is vastly different than one (sort of) day off and 3 nights in Hanoi. I've talked with several pilots here in the US who are keen to go based on the first scenario but might think twice if it's the second.

[ia1166]

Ok. well i do know that we don't all get the same deal from rostering for reasons that i won't mention again. If people are getting 2 days off a week and only 1 overnight then I'd like to know why i'm getting shafted as do 2 or 3 other captains i know.I'll take a look next time i'm in work.

[stardustcologne]

ia1166,
thanks for the other look inside. It is absolutlely necessary to be told all sides of businness.

But show me the place where heaven meets earth - and I will go there.

Some people might be attracted by a good payscale (much much much more than I have here) or the promise to change to the left seat after a while (and this with a contract job!).
But having the job which gives you the maximum of benefits its rarely to find. I don't know. You always know better afterwards. But the question is: What do you leave behind...

So, please again, what are your weekly hours, 4 legs every day? Your monthly hours? I did not see any payscale for overtime. So they will wear you off then.

[Dream Land]

we don't all get the same deal from rostering for reasons that i won't mention again by ia1166Question: Have you ever given chocolate to the rostering department at Vietnam Airlines?

Anxiously awaiting your response. :}

[Hook Down]

What is a typical working day like?

How long is a normal working day? What counts as a duty day? Is it from the first brief to the last block in time?

What about the turn time between each leg. Is there a lot of sitting around time twiddling your thumbs or is the aircraft turn quickly and the day fairly efficient?

I am just trying to get an idea of a typical day so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance guys.

[jumpdrive]

he he right on man

i have indeed

& it has worked WONDERS for me

its like a holiday all year long for me

its like having my personal asistant

je je je je

by the way.............i gave belgium chocolate
ha ha ha ha ha

good one

[ia1166]

ok. this week of the 40 so expat captains, a total of 11 have more than 1 day off in the week. 1 guy has 3. only around half of these have 2 days together. almost everyone has time in hanoi. some 1 day, some 2 days and maybe 40% have a 3 day lay over in hanoi. I guess by looking over the lot most people are flying 14 to 20 sectors with a very few flying less.

Look this is just a snap of this week. It's not the hardest flying but it's exactly as i said guys. You get 7 days a month, so obviously you can get 2 together maximum twice in a month if you ask, and they will try to work you the 8 days before it so you pick up on the 60 hours off in 10 day rule. for my part i now have 4 days off before the end of the month but i had a 30 minute battle with rostering to get it and i had to get the CAAV involved. And that just gets me to my minimum 7 days this month.

Having said that what do you expect? 2 days a week off, good money, 2 weeks off every 6 weeks, we're short of pilots. Guys one of these statements isn't correct is it.

It's a good place all in all if you can take the rostering, but if you come, then know what it's like before you get here, otherwise you'll be unhappy. Pprune isn't a recruitment sitefor management, it's hopefully where the truth can be told pilot to pilot.

Oh and the post above highlights exactly what i was saying. I jst can't wait for more people like him to turn up.

And i see you have 2 nights in hanoi this week jump drive. and you're getting in at midnight tonight, back into saigon midnight tomorrow night, and working thursday night too. Some roster.

[Lost in Saigon]

3 Day layover in Hanoi in the hotel, when you are based in Saigon? That seems odd. I never saw that when I was there 2003-2006.

Just so there is no confusion, can you confirm that most of what has been said here applies to the A320/A321 rostering?

The B777 rostering is of course substantially different. I only mention this because there must be potential B777 pilots reading this as well.

When I flew the B767 at VNA the rostering was very good. I am curious how the the B777 is now.

I know the B777 often has double augment(2 CA, 2 FO) for the longer flights so you will never max out on flight hours because time in the bunk doesn't count.

Can someone post a typical B777 roster for us?

[ia1166]

ok here's one from this week for a mate of mine.
sgn dad sgn han
han cxr han hui han this is a long day
han rep han sgn arriving back in sgn around 2300

ok? 3 days. and actually he's the first captain i came to. i could go on.

there's one guy on the list whose line already starts in hanoi and he's there for 3 days so he most be there for 4 days or more.

Anyway, maybe the choclatiers have something. I just like to operate as per my contract, thank you.

[Lost in Saigon]

Again, please confirm that it is a 320/321 roster.

Is it possible that the 3 days in Hanoi is actually because he ended in Hanoi and was positioned back to Saigon? Then he is positioned back to Hanoi 3 days later to again start flying?

This happened to me once or twice on the B767. Occasionally I spent 48 hrs in Hanoi because they liked the extra "Standby"(reserve) coverage. But never 3 days.

[Dream Land]

Anyway, maybe the choclatiers have something. I just like to operate as per my contract, thank you.And for some reason you are avoiding a direct question, could it be that perhaps you are guilty of bringing chocolate to rostering, the same person winging at others for the same offense, so if you are guilty, get off your high horse you hypocrite, your dribble is getting old.

Apologies to all crews just looking for intelligent information about the operation.

[Dream Land]

FWIW you must be a bit flexible here, rostering is doing there best to keep locals and expats happy, some people here do not get along with the staff and receive an unbalanced amount of flying due to their inability to work with the company, this situation can occur at most any company where staffing and available lift varies from month to month, the staff in rostering are cordial and friendly, I have submitted requests for certain days off a couple weeks in advance and not had any problems, others may have a different experience- in any case, if the company is not treating you fairly, it can be easily resolved by notifying the contractor, certainly not by making wild ass accusations about fellow expats.

[ia1166]

when you get 5 days off in 5 weeks and work 50 hours duty a week, there's not much scope for being flexible. Is not like they can call me on my day off is it?

doh

[kiwilad]

I think what has been discussed has to do with the A320 roster etc, is the ATR similiar?

If anyone can enlighten me on a weekly roster pattern for the ATR that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers:ok:

[stardustcologne]

Someone told there would be 2 new A330 coming to VAC. Is it true? Are they still coming?
The last existing job opportunity for A330 F/O is not available anymore and they kept me hanging for lots of weeks. Not very nice. Well done. :yuk:
So good luck for the rest of you.

[saviboy]

I am not familiar with contract work.\\\

If the contract is supposed to last 3 years, does that mean I not free to take another job during the 3 years. can i break the contract.
are there any penalties?

thanks

[Boxshifter]

No, normally you can terminate your contract as the contract agency can terminate your contract.

Contract work has usually nothing to do with slavery, well at least in this respect.

[NVpilot]

Each contract is different, some contracts give you a bonus upon completion, essentially holding back your pay, some contracts will include a clause that charges you some amount of money if you do not remain for the contract term, this is to cover the fine that they pay for you leaving early. Most contracts require a notice of leaving period, maybe sixty days, if you choose to ignore this period you risk burning a bridge. In any case, a contract IS negotiable, if there is something you don't like, tell them it's unacceptable.

[555orange]

You guys do TPE layovers? Just wondering....

[olepilot]

Yes, me thinks so, but most of the layovers go to the locals.:ok:

[varigflier]

If you choose the 6/2 option and then wants to chance to 5/3 or vice versa, can you do it?

[kefz]

with ur hours.. u'll probably get direct command :)

[Blue320]

I did a search on 2 questions that I have and did not find anything on the subject so if they are posted somewhere please forgive me!

1. Regarding a contract; do you pay any taxes out of your contracted wages?

2. How is the social life for a single fellow? Are there many non-local women to meet out at a pub or just locals?

Thx!

[jumpdrive]

1. No

2. Good & Yes

[Blue320]

JumpDrive,

Thanks for the non-dramatic reply mate!

[Lost in Saigon]

2. How is the social life for a single fellow? Are there many non-local women to meet out at a pub or just locals?


After a few weeks in Vietnam, you will ONLY want to meet "Local" girls.

This was part of my initial briefing at Mulligan's Irish Pub in the Omni Hotel the first night I arrived in HCMC. I didn't take it seriously at first.....

[varigflier]

So can you switch between the roster patterns or no???

[THRidle]

How about just asking one of the agencies concerned !!!

[tamie]

Hello folks!
I found this thread and read all the pages (uuh, a lot of...).
There was a lot of good information here, and I decided to apply for the job A320 as first officer a while ago. I have a current rating and about 3000 hrs on Airbus.

Can someone here who is working there already tell me if they stopped hiring new first officers? I didn't hear anything from the agencies. I thought to get at least the possibility to do a screening or interview or so...

It looked like VAC needs crews desperately as the agencies are posting ongoing starts and improving their conditions. But no reply for weeks now. I asked them and they told me they would contact me when there would be any news :bored: so no news obviously. Not enough hours? Wrong gender? Wrong history? :(

Well, maybe I had the naive idea... thought I could come along and start there immediately :ouch: no, I won't as it looks like.

Any idea? I need work, so will try something else, but I would prefer this job in Saigon.

Thank you for any information!

[tamie]

uuups sorry, this was sent twice!!

[Lost in Saigon]

Hello folks!
I found this thread and read all the pages (uuh, a lot of...).
There was a lot of good information here, and I decided to apply for the job A320 as first officer a while ago. I have a current rating and about 3000 hrs on Airbus.

Can someone here who is working there already tell me if they stopped hiring new first officers? I didn't hear anything from the agencies. I thought to get at least the possibility to do a screening or interview or so...

It looked like VAC needs crews desperately as the agencies are posting ongoing starts and improving their conditions. But no reply for weeks now. I asked them and they told me they would contact me when there would be any news :bored: so no news obviously. Not enough hours? Wrong gender? Wrong history? :(

Well, maybe I had the naive idea... thought I could come along and start there immediately :ouch: no, I won't as it looks like.

Any idea? I need work, so will try something else, but I would prefer this job in Saigon.

Thank you for any information!

Make sure you apply with all the contractors. Occasionally one or more of the contractors will be overlooked by VNA when they are looking for pilots.

Usually it is because someone at the contractors head office forgot to provide a little brown envelope under the right door in Hanoi.

[tamie]

Thank you!
I tried now with Rishworth and Parc. I think Euro Pacific is one more agency, I didn't apply there yet. I was a bit scared VAC wouldn't like to have the same application letter three times to look through. I wouldn't be amused to have the same papers of people several times on my desktop, a lot of unneccessary work.
But maybe you are absolutely right. Thanks for advice!!

So you think I should have heard about it in meantime??

[Lost in Saigon]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just apply to all 3 and make sure you are up to date with all 3. VNA probably doesn't see any names until you are actually hired by the contractor and VNA just rubber stamp the names.

You could also contact each contractor to see what is going on. They all want your business because they will makes lots of money off you for the duration of your contract.

If it has only been 2 or 3 months it may be normal. Things don't happen overnight.

I don't work there anymore, but I believe that is the way it is still done.

[tamie]

Thank you very much!!!
So I will be more patient...

[olepilot]

If it has only been 2 or 3 months it may be normal. Things don't happen overnight.

This is very true! and then suddenly everything happens at once.

BTW. I was, at the same day, told by Rishworth that I didn't have enough hours and by PARC that I was welcome to screening.

[tamie]

Oh, that's interesting! Hopefully you first got the mail by Parc, then the "disappointment" was bearable.
But this means the airline give preference to some agencies, in this case Parc??
What is the average total/airbus time they are looking for? I know what minimum requirements they want - but what is ist in reality? I am so "proud" to finally reach at least 3000 hrs but I know it is not the jackpot!! :O

And please, don't be annoyed by my questions...
How much time is there after the positive reply and screening/interview and then start training/working? How much training/screening is there each month?
Do they give priority to some special nationalities? Or is it just a question of the number of applicants (for example there are ten times more applicants from US than EU or from other Asian countries because it is quite close)?

Thanks for your replies!
Tamie

[jumpdrive]

many of the nationalities here are from countries that VN fly to
so they wont spend a nickle in tickets to get home when off or holiday
i c u'r from the states so , go figure the numbers to move
To & from the east or west coast of US to saigon or hanoi
but then again there are many many that do pay to get home
'cause here VN will just drop U in CDG or FRA (europe, theres also moscow!)
or if U live in the west coast maybe china airlines is your escape route from
taipei, they have very cheap fares to SEA & LAX even to JFK

c U

[olepilot]

I am so "proud" to finally reach at least 3000 hrs
I don't have 3000 hours even today!

How much time is there after the positive reply and screening/interview and then start training/working?
In my case I asked for 2 weeks and got it.

How much training/screening is there each month?
?

Do they give priority to some special nationalities?
Don't think so.

Or is it just a question of the number of applicants
?

"Demisse et lente"

[tamie]

Oh, thanks so far! :)
I live in reasonable distance to a destination airport... very good.
But I need more patience, I see... ;) Can't await a positive reply...
So, all of you have a nice time there in Saigon, I hope desperately I can follow soon! Would be a pleasure!

Ciao, Tamie

[Lost in Saigon]

I applied to Europacific and Parc at the same time in Sept 2003 for a 767 FO position that both were advertising.

Europacfic emailed me a few times with little teases asking when I would be available for screening. First in Seoul, then in Taipei.

Then nothing for 3 weeks.

In Oct 2003 Parc emailed me and asked what is the earliest I could get to Taipei for screening.

About 1 week later I was in Taipei. The "screening" is actually done in the first 5 minutes in the simulator. The next 3:55 is your initial training followed the next day by another 4 hours.

Then it is off the HCMC for groundschool.

[varigflier]

Hey LiS, are you planning on going back to Saigon?

[Lost in Saigon]

I might one day, but not until I get a 777 rating or they get some some 767's again.

[varigflier]

I still want to see your pictures from Saigon someday!!!!

[flamingmoe]

I'm currently a B737NG captain and interested in VNA for a variety of reasons. What position would I be able to apply for? If I did a 777 differences course would that suffice? Or do you require the rating plus some time on type?

Regards,

Moe.

[NVpilot]

Moe, suggest you contact the contract agencies for the latest, in the past they only have hired current and qualified, recently there have been rumors about a program being developed for non-rated pilots, in this program you pay for the type rating. Also you may want to look into Jetstar Pacific or Vietjet with your 737 experience.

[Reepicheep]

I noticed they took the pilot positions off the employment section of their website, and the financial report for the first 6 mos. of the year contains a lot of (unfortunately) familiar verbiage about fuel costs and "rationalization" and such.

Are VA still desperate for flight crew?

[tamie]

Yes, I realized the same as you from employee position. The agencies tell me they are still looking for crews. Don't know...:confused:

edit:
But maybe they did like this because they have hundreds of applications in stock and also enough offers/options with the agencies. I think just in a bad case it would be more easy to get rid of expats than local crews with permanent contracts.

[tamie]

Sorry for double posting...
I am curious: Are there any Indonesian pilots (or maybe cabin crew as well) working for Vietnam Airlines?
Would be very nice. :)

[vikena]

Tamie mate , are you for real?

[kefz]

priority is given to the viets now and the south east asians.. if ur white.. just wait a while my friend... the yellow skinned needs a job too ...

[josewoodward]

Can anyone tell me what the medical is like at VAC? What does it entail? Has anyone failed the medical after being hired at VAC? How long does it take for the CAA to issue your license after you start Training? Thanks in advance for the answers if you have any....

[NVpilot]

First of all, one must pass the medical examination prior to operating on the line, has there been a problem with pilots passing the initial screening? Not too much, occasionally a pilot will have to take care of some particular issue that may create a small delay.

There have been a few instances of pilots failing the medical after being hired, very few.

As far as how the exam is administered, please read the thread, someone has already posted a good description.

Sorry mate, no CAA here I'm afraid.

[josewoodward]

Thanks for the info

[bjlurzjet]

Is anyone going so Singapore in August for an interview with VAC? I would like to get paired with someone. Understand if you go alone and you're paired with someone that you don't know too well, it's tough> Let me know. Thanks,

[Lost in Saigon]

priority is given to the viets now and the south east asians.. if ur white.. just wait a while my friend... the yellow skinned needs a job too ...
What are you talking about? Vietnamese Nationals? Vietnamese Nationals are hired "In House" by Vietnam Airlines. They are either ex-Vietnamese Airforce, or Cadets from the Vietnam Airlines Cadet Program.

The problem is there are not enough Vietnamese Nationals to satisfy the growing need for pilots at Vietnam Airlines. That is why they hire pilots through contractors like Parc, Europacific, and Rishworth.

The Contractors don't care about the colour of your skin, and Vietnam Airlines doesn't either. They just want a body in the seat for the length of the contract.

[varigflier]

When is the interview in August???

[flyboy320]

Understand if you go alone and you're paired with a VC, it's tough

Well bjlurzjet, you might be surprised, but in case they really hire you, there is a big chance that you have to work together with Vietnamese pilots. So better get comfortable with it right away.

[Dream Land]

Well bjlurzjet, you might be surprised, but in case they really hire you, there is a big chance that you have to work together with Vietnamese pilots. So better get comfortable with it right away.Nice response, I think if bjlurzjet was concerned about flying with Vietnamese crews, I don't think he'd applying with the airline. The fact is, there is a very high failure rate at present time and applicants are only echoing the rumor that is on the streets, the real issue here is why does it take the Vietnamese TRE's two full simulator sessions to evaluate a pilot..!!? :hmm:

[varigflier]

How experienced are the applicants? Are they being fair or is it more like a Korean Air thing?

[bjlurzjet]

I am heading over for an interview there on the 18th. I was just wondering if anyone might want to pair up since I've heard that it would just make things a little less stressful for the ride. I'm not afraid of flying with a "local" but why not try and reduce an already stressful event, that's all. Anyways, PM me if you want to try and get paired.

[Jimmy Do Little]

the real issue here is why does it take the Vietnamese TRE's two full simulator sessions to evaluate a pilot..!!? :hmm:


Because they give you the first one - at their expence - as a refresher training SIM / SOP review. Then they actually do the evaluation in the following SIM session after you've been introduced to their procedures, etc.

Do you think you would find that level of fairness at Etihad, Emirates, etc?

[NVpilot]

Fairness, I think counting the evaluation as a six month check has a lot to do with it.

[huckleberry58]

Do they allow walk in's for the interview in Singapore? Where is it being held?

[UALSIC]

Good point NVPilot. :)

[Jimmy Do Little]

Call it what you like. The bottom line is this; if you show up with a good attitude and flying skills commensurate with the level of skill they request, the SIM check pretty much a no-stress event.

Regarding working with the Vietnamese (I see someone referred to them as the "VC" - tacky); if you would enjoy working with a bunch of friendly folks who don't have any hidden agendas or bad attitudes, then VNA is the place to be.

[bjlurzjet]

I mistyped the "VC" and when I re-read it, I see what you were saying about "tacky". With Rishworth, they've been abbreviating Vietnam Airlines as VAC and that's what I meant. Sorry if it offended anyone. In answer to the question if they take walk-ins, I believe you have to go through one of the contractors as someone posted earlier since they have to get your visa, and background checks started. I have an interview date on the 18th-19th of August. Also, if anyone has info to gouges or any advice, it would be appreciated.

[ia1166]

There is no interview. Just a back of the clock LPC, so in laymans terms it's a screening that if you pass will constitute your LPC. Therefore you arrive, touch on ground school, line training which is short and sharp, and you're off and running.

For what it's worth, VAC sim checks are old school. Lots of raw data, direct law and multiple failures. Not your new world AQP happy clappy or loft type scenarios so best get your books out and have a look at Emerg elec, triple adr and double hyd stuff. Unreliable speed also and imultiple ir issues. Circling one engine overweight. All with maximum cross wind. Double elevator fault after take off was on last months session.

Don't be put off. Just follow ECAM, know your stuff and it's fine. If you have never opened a book and think it'll be a breeze, then you may get a rude awakening.

[tamie]

Thanks for info.
What about procedure call outs? Do they give you a bit of time to review the kind of call outs they want to hear before screening? I have had three different procedure call outs in the last three years...
Is it screening with just 1 F/O and a checker Cpt on the left seat (for F/O screening)? Or they share a 4 hrs mission in sim with two F/O - each 2 hrs?

[A319rider]

Hey guys, still trying to make up my mind about vietnam. Can you shed some light about the rostering, turnaround times and days off that you currently have on the line? (Yes, I've read the threat but everything gets a bit confusing after so many different versions).
How long are the sectors your fly everyday? Do you have 30 min or 1 h turnarounds? Do you always fly 4 sectors or get longer 2 sectors days too? Do you get 1 or 2 days off?
And also if you have any more info that can be helpfull like recent house prices or lifestyle issues this would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance and I hope you can spare the time to answer my questions.
Safe flying.

[NVpilot]

Maybe they're too busy flying to answer..! :bored:

[tamie]

Hi!

The airport is in northwest of the city. I think most of the expat pilots live in the surrounding of Saigon in some nice houses (which are quite cheap to rent) or in some appartments in the districts close to the airport. There are some who are living in city center district 1 or 3 which is a distance to the airport but manageable.

Housing costs are quite high in comparison to the costs of living there. You will find something reasonable.

I guess all the expats will go to work by taxi or taxi-moped.

The city is very busy and noisy. As all big asian cities. But I am sure you will get your sleep when you need it!! ;) Have you ever been to an asian city before?? Don't worry about the noise.

[tamie]

Hey,

no, I am not living and working there - yet. But I am working on it for quite a long time now. Hopefully I will go there soon... :)
I don't speak Vietnamese, I am learning with Rosetta Stone and several self study books. But the Vietnamese guys around me here are just laughing when I try to talk to them... ok, they don't understand me ;) as I still don't understand them. Difficult... But I guess English is helpful there most of the time, isn't it?

I am sure you will have easy shuttle to Australia when you work in Vietnam. Shouldn't be any problem. Don't wait too long with your application because you might have to wait quite a long time until you will get any response. Obviously they have plenty of A320 crews interested in joining them.

[jumpdrive]

OMG tamie
are U for real ?
which planet U live in ?
disney land ?
ha ha ha ha

[tamie]

Jumpdrive,

are you for real?

Yes, I am, and I am very pleasent with it.
I will always share my experience with those who are asking for it.

You can behave as you want to. But I will never ever let me tell how I will have to behave.

[tamie]

Thats for sure.

[vikena]

Starskate you are correct . Lets stick to the topic.

But also tamie can you stop posting on this thread. you sound like a child.

[Lost in Saigon]

But also tamie can you stop posting on this thread. you sound like a child.


vikena, I see nothing wrong with tamie's posts and I see nothing that makes them sound like a child.

Can you tell us why you have a problem with her posts?

[olepilot]

Most places rather-very noisy.

House rent very high and rising, especially in expat areas, An Phu & Phu My Hung. Most landlords want +100% when it's time to renew contract.
Downtown and close to airport cheaper, with a bit of luck and patience.

Inflation 21%

School, approx. 1100USD/month/kid.

To and from duty taxi, motorbike, motorcycle-taxi or walk if you live in Tan Binh.

Rather different/special place/country/company but if you can cope and accept you can have a good life here.

PARC is IMO very quick to respond.


and in my opinion, tamie and likes, spare us your hearsay and "I think/heard/believe-info" This thread is long enough without a lot of static.

[Lost in Saigon]

Cars are very expensive in Vietnam due to a special import tax to discourage their use. (the roads are too crowded)

Cars takes for ever to get anywhere because of all the traffic so you are better off to take a motorbike. If it rains, you stop and throw on your poncho like everyone else.

OR... Take a taxi, they are still relatively cheap if you live not too far from the airport.

[NVpilot]

I know it rains a lot in Vietnam It does? Compared to where, yes it's now officially the rainy season but it does not rain a lot in my opinion. :cool:

[mach 84]

this years wet season is quite wet compared to the recent years,

[tamie]

Oh yeah
let's talk about rain
It is not childish...
Not at all... :)

[NVpilot]

I really wouldn't be too concerned about the rain or what model car to buy, most pilots are failing the evaluation, maybe some emphasis should be getting hired first. :rolleyes:

[olepilot]

Wet season means that it rains, sometimes a lot like 60-70cm of water on the road. Airport closes etc. and then you take a taxi or wait until it passes.
Own car = nope

[UALSIC]

NVpilot - what are the issues they are running into during the eval? :ouch:

[olepilot]

Can be found earlier in this thread

[Taylor01]

Just wondering what airplane the guys were on that are failing the evaluation. I just got an acceptance from Rishworth, and you are correct about the verification letter, but if you send a copy of your license you have to wonder why the need a letter also. Thx

[varigflier]

For those of you flying in the States of applying using your FAA license, can't you tell them to check the FAA site for verification of your licence? The site tells whoever looks what license and ratings you have. That's one of the reasons for having it on the FAA site. Maybe I'm missing something??

[ia1166]

A lot of qualified a320 operators have failed. Not knowing their way around the FCOM or QRH and not being able to fly raw data single engine in a 20kt crosswind to minima.

I think a lot of US operators have their own books. So if you have never seen an FCOM then you are pretty much buggered before you even get in the sim.

There is no chance of a half day intro to FCOM here so try to find some somewhere before you turn up.

Rain and cars. how about the recent attempt to make days off midnight to midnight GMT or local, depending on how it suits rostering (i'm not joking) and days off not in your home base.

Everyone is working hard here. It's exactly like i said earlier. 6 days on, 1 day off, unless someone wants to contradict me.

[Jimmy Do Little]

Fact, most US operators create their own Books and Manuals. But, a competent A320 operator should be able to adapt to the Airbus FCOM and QRH without too much difficulty.

For the US (FAA) folks not familiar with them, it's really quite simple:

FCOM 1 - Systems Information. You probably studied this during Initial Ground Training towards your Type Rating.

FCOM 2 - Performance and Loading. Your FAA Dispatcher and Load planning department would create their manuals from this book.”

FCOM 3 - This is the operators manual. Contains the Normal, Abnormal, Emergency, SOP, and Supplementary procedures.

FCOM 4 - You'd know this one as the FMGS Training Manual.

QRH – Quick reference handbook, which you DO have in the FAA system.

At a minimum, review the “contents” pages. Then, you’ll be that much further ahead when you attend the evaluation. If you need them, feel free to IM me, and I’ll send you a generic set.


Next, your (FAA) Flight Operations Manual is broken into 4 parts and usually published as 4 separate books:

Part A – This is the FAA version of the FOM (contains Company Procedures, and data similar to FAR 121, 135, [some FAR 91] etc)

Part B – This consists of the FCOM data for any particular and specific fleet of aircraft.

Part C – This is the FAA route manual. Otherwise, your Jeppesen (or NOAA) chart set.

Part D – The Training Manual. It would include information from the FCTM (Flight Crew Training Manual – A320 Personal Trainer), content from the FCOM and the various SIM syllabus, testing standards, info from FAR 61, etc.

There is no chance of a half day intro to FCOM here so try to find some somewhere before you turn up.

Intro Complete!


can't you tell them to check the FAA site for verification of your licence?

A number of people have shown up in the past with forged documents. You can’t blame the company for taking extra steps in the interest of safety, and the reputation of their company.

how about the recent attempt to make days off midnight to midnight GMT or local, depending on how it suits rostering (i'm not joking) and days off not in your home base. Everyone is working hard here. It's exactly like i said earlier. 6 days on, 1 day off…

It’s not happening to everyone at VN Air. But, there does seem to be a parallel between the number of days worked, and the level of complaining by each respective pilot!


Remember, you have 6 weeks on, then 2 weeks off. (or 5 & 3, or 4 & 4) You won’t get that at Etihad, Emirates, Qatar, JetStar, or SQ. In fact, EK is 8 days off each month… regardless of what country you may be sleeping in during those 8 days!



Cars? Forget it! The cost is staggering. You can import your own car as a “Transferred Asset” but you’ll need a blood relative within VN Customs to make it happen. And, unless you were a NYC taxi driver in a former life, you wouldn’t survive on the streets. Taxis are cheap, and a lot less trouble than owning a car here. Find a good taxi driver, get his hand phone number, treat him with some respect, and you’ll have a loyal, dependable driver who will respond in minutes – at most any hour - for your entire time in Vietnam.

The site tells whoever looks what license and ratings you have. That's one of the reasons for having it on the FAA site. Maybe I'm missing something??

The trouble is that FAA licences are not compliant with ICAO accepted standards. VN issues licences that look like the ICAO document, where the FAA issues a document that looks like a “Credit Card”. It’s different; therefore it takes some extra steps to validate, as do the Brazilian licenses which also look like Credit Cards. (Before anyone says anything – I agree, the FAA makes it easy to check the validity – but, VN Air is not a US Air Carrier) Worse, you can find current licence validations for Deceased Pilots, so they don't place a lot of faith in that system.

Again, FAA guys needing a short briefing on the FCOM, feel free to IM me.


Fly safe….

[ia1166]

Actually my friends in SQ are getting around 12-14 days at home every month, and 6 weeks leave a year. You might want to check your information.

Everyone who is already here has been knocked back when applying for 4/4 or 5/3. It would appear it's only applicable to the new joiners.

[Dream Land]

New joiners are now being forced onto the 6/2.

but you’ll need a blood relative within VN Customs to make it happen.Or a friend of blood relative will do...! :E

[Dream Land]

By the way, if I understand this correctly, the USA is an ICAO compliant state, there are some FAA certificates that are not ICAO-compliant. They would be the new Sport Pilot certificate, the Recreational Pilot Certificate and an ATP certificate when the holder does not meet the ICAO experience requirements. All of these certificates will have a restriction placed on them that says they do not meet ICAO standards.

Waiting to be corrected. :\

[confirm-finals?]

Any news on first officer 330 hiring? They were keen up to last month now silence.... Any info?

[ia1166]

As far as the intro to FCOM, i really meant FCOM 3 and if you go into the sim, you should at least know that a double RA failure is in FCOM 3 and not the QRH. It's a bit more involved than a paragraph on PPRUNE.

[Jimmy Do Little]

By the way, if I understand this correctly, the USA is an ICAO compliant state, there are some FAA certificates that are not ICAO-compliant. They would be the new Sport Pilot certificate, the Recreational Pilot Certificate and an ATP certificate when the holder does not meet the ICAO experience requirements. All of these certificates will have a restriction placed on them that says they do not meet ICAO standards.

Waiting to be corrected. http://static.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/wibble.gif

I'm only refering to the format of the Certificate, not to the status of the US system. Hope this clears it up.

[Jimmy Do Little]

Actually my friends in SQ are getting around 12-14 days at home every month, and 6 weeks leave a year. You might want to check your information.


If you’re certain that it's that good at SQ, and judging from your apparent feelings about VN Air from the numerous complaints that you’ve posted, maybe you should have one of your friends at SQ get you onboard with them. They are still recruiting!

[Asia_flyer]

...As far as the intro to FCOM, i really meant FCOM 3 and if you go into the sim, you should at least know that a double RA failure is in FCOM 3 and not the QRH. It's a bit more involved than a paragraph on PPRUNE...-- i made my way over to Asia a couple years back and had some trouble with my first sim eval for the same reasons talked about here. -- i grew up in the faa system and know where i find the answer in our manuals. -- if jimmy sent me the info that he post sooner, I’d of had a much easier time with my first evaluation. -- thanks for being a team player jimmy. -- comin' from the USA doesn't mean we're all stupid. our way is just different from some others. -- we do know what we're doin', and the cross reference that jimmy provided helps mend the gap. -- .ia1166.... maybe ya'll should take care riding up in your high saddle... ya never know when ya might fall off and land in a big ole pile o' horse crap! -- See ya'll.

[jumpdrive]

heard 'bout the last report & saw a copy
of the number (high!) of failure in the screenings
for all, ATR, B777 & A320

[UALSIC]

The FAA verification letter is on the FAA.gov site. You fill out a small form and they send it to you via e-mail.

PM me if you can't find where that is and I will walk you through it.

[ADFS]

I have screening in Saigon in September and if I pass and am selected could be interested in renting...can anyone out there give me the lowdown on screening/interview/sim ride to be expected ? ia1166, I have enjoyed your posts and would appreciate any information. PM me if you would,thanx !!:ok:

[bjlurzjet]

Who did you go to for your contract? Rishworth or Parc? How long after you applied did you get an interview? Good luck!:D

[VNAv8r]

A follow up on autos in VN... Do not drive a car here... DO NOT.

If a few of you are living very near each other than consider splitting the cost of having a car with driver at your disposal. Between 3 of you it might run 350 monthly... Scooter is an option, except its a trick to carry a flight bag on the bike in traffic in the rain... Save the scooter for off duty meanderings...

Just checked with the money boss and she says our all our monthly utilities> phone/cable tv and internet/ trash/ water/ elec ( a/c runs when home) about 3 million VND so call it $200usd to be safe... our place is about 75 sq metres

[Shogun-16]

Dream Land,

I'm a retiring US Military pilot that have been corresponding with PARC and Rushworth about possible employment in Viet Nam. I recently completed the A320 type rating. They didn't mention the shortage of FOs, but wanted me to hurry and complete the paperwork. They didn't talk terms. What should I do? Is it worth the move? I have no commercial Airline experience, is this a plus?

Shogun-16

[Dream Land]

They didn't talk terms. What should I do? Is it work the move? I have no commercial Airline experience, is this a plus?

Shogun-16Shogun, I would highly recommend accepting the job if it's offered, being ex- military you are no doubt aware of the fun place it is here in Asia, you will enjoy it here and life on the line is anything but dull, the crews you will fly with here are very experienced and you learn a lot.

Review the contract carefully, if there is something you're not happy with, be sure to try to work this out prior taking the job, after you are here there is no more negotiating power.

Not having any commercial experience is not a negative factor, maybe even a plus since you will come with an open mind, good luck!

D.L.

[Shogun-16]

Thanks for the valuable information. I spent 12 of 26 years in Asia. Been to Viet Nam several times as recent as this Spring. I'm just trying to get in front of the bow wave. Dream Land and Starskate, I trust I'll be having a few private conversations with you over the next 90 days.

Shogun-16

[stardustcologne]

I didn't reply here for a long time because I still don't have any new information.
But I would bet on there were more posts recently, they made me kind of upset. They are gone. Deleted?
Someone told here in this thread that guys are jumping into screening and line training after 2 to 3 weeks of applying. After this time one shoud suggest he was not accepted by VAC.

What is VAC looking for? They obviously take applicants with just a little experience on A320 and obviously without Airbus-procedure knowledge (or how shall I interprete recent conversation here). And there are still applicants with several thousand of hours on type and doing nothing else than Airbus-procedures who are not invited.

But maybe I get it wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me.
Maybe there are different pilots pools with different agencies, I don't know. Or it is just a bad luck.
Is someone hired via Rishworth at all? I guess all the American applicants come via Parc...

Does anybody know if there are screenings beyond September?

[Dream Land]

Someone told here in this thread that guys are jumping into screening and line training after 2 to 3 weeks of applying. I work with many applicants and lately I am not aware of anyone receiving an invitation within the first four weeks.


Is someone hired via Rishworth at all? I guess all the American applicants come via Parc...Pilots from Rishworth Aviation in ground school now, more arriving next week that work for Rishworth, don't believe everything you hear.

D.L.

[flyboy320]

@stardust:

Initially you are only dealing with the headhunters and not with Vietnam Airlines; and these guys know about Aviation as much as my grandma who told me once not to fly to high and to fast because it might be dangerous.

So if you put in your application as type A320/A330 they might not find a "Airbus 320330" in ther database and you are out. You are dealing with a bunch of shortsighted laywers....i am quite sure that VNA will still need a lot of pilots in the future.

[CORNELIO]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to this website. I am looking for a position as a Ground Maintenance Engineer with Vietnam Airlines or any other carrier. I have a B2 license rated on ATR and A320 with 15 years experience. I may get laid off soon. I am not exactly sure where to post this reply. I have tried many other job sites but can't seem to find a suitable position. Can anyone please guide me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Francisco.

[UALSIC]

Is it "appropriate" to put packages together from BOTH Rishworth and PARC for the Vietnam Air contract and go with the first interview or do you have to pick one and hope for the best?

How does Vietnam Air view this practice?

[stardustcologne]

@ Cornelio,

just try these agencies like Parc Aviation or Rishworth, they hire for Vietnam Airlines - at least pilots' jobs. They have a site for maintenance crew as well, maybe they have any job for you.
But you can also try any other of those agencies, I guess all or at least most of them support maintenance crews as well. You will have to register there, but don't hesitate to get in contact with them via E-Mail or phone and ask what you want to know.
Good luck!

[olepilot]

UALSIC, you can apply to both Rish and Parc.
I was, at the same day, told by Rishworth that I didn't have enough hours and by PARC that I was welcome to screening.

[UALSIC]

Much appreciated Ole :ok:

[flamingmoe]

With 8000hrs TT, 4000hrs 737NG, 700 command NG, and a 777 type rating, would it be possible to go on the Boeing as a captain? Or would it have to be F/O?

[Lost in Saigon]

With 8000hrs TT, 4000hrs 737NG, 700 command NG, and a 777 type rating, would it be possible to go on the Boeing as a captain? Or would it have to be F/O?

Sorry, Unless you have a current 777 rating AND at least 500 hours recent 777 time, you are not employable at Vietnam Airlines. Not as a Captain, and not even as a First Officer.

[stardustcologne]

If you ask for 777:
My last information is that they require at least 1000 hrs on type for a F/O position on B777 (a few months ago via Parc).
But maybe you should just ask them and just try. I made the experience: when they don't find enough who fit in the requirements, they will go below requirements, but it was a lot of years ago. Just try it. Apply.

[stardustcologne]

Hey, after complaining here I suddenly got mail. Maybe I should have complained earlier... ;)

But please, was it like this in past as well: I have to pay for my travel to screening in advance (ticket, hotel, I don't know, everything) and I will get money back only after positive screening?? That's strange... and expensive. Ooookaaaay.

Does VAC give any documents about tax payment over there? I will need it here. Anyway it was not so sure for me after reading the standard contract version if tax is already paid with the salary or not. I asked the agency again, I will see what they say. Before I was sure payment would be after tax. Now I am not.

[Lost in Saigon]

Your pay is free of any Vietnam Taxes. It is all paid by Vietnam Airlines. Depending on your circumstances, some other countries might want a piece of it, but it is up to you to figure that part out.

[Dream Land]

In the past, tickets to interviews were paid by the contractor in advance.

[stardustcologne]

Thanks a lot for answer!
I misunderstood the wording in the contract. Yes, tickets within VAC network are free (except ticket tax as far as I understood). So it will just be the accomodation over there where screening takes place. And this will be paid back by agency after successful check.
Ok, so this salary will be the value with which I can count, there won't be any xx% subtracted. That's nice to hear.
I will have to find out how to keep peace with my home tax system.

But step by step. First I will have to pass screening, then the next step. Thanks for answer!

[mach 84]

best to avoid the tax man in your home country is to deregister there and register with your embassy in vietnam as an expat. doing this for the last 6 years and it works.

[Lost in Saigon]

Each country has it's own rules, so it's best to get advice from an expert.

[Jimmy Do Little]

Does VAC give any documents about tax payment over there? I will need it here. Anyway it was not so sure for me after reading the standard contract version if tax is already paid with the salary or not. I asked the agency again, I will see what they say. Before I was sure payment would be after tax. Now I am not.


VAC will provide a document stating that Tax Obligations in Vietnam have been satisfied (I’ve received them in the past). Several countries have “bi-lateral” tax treaties with Vietnam, therefore a PORTION of whatever taxes levied against you by your home country would be off-set, subject to the information which follows:


Firstly, a word about Tax Treaties


Tax treaties set out clear ground rules that govern tax matters relating to trade and investment between the two countries. A tax treaty is intended to mesh the tax systems of the two countries so that there is little potential for dispute regarding the amount of tax that should be paid to each country. The goal is to ensure that taxpayers do not end up caught in the middle between two governments, each of which claims taxing jurisdiction over the same income. A treaty with clear rules addressing the most likely areas of disagreement minimizes the time the two governments (and taxpayers) spend in resolving individual disputes.


One of the primary functions of tax treaties is to provide certainty to taxpayers regarding the threshold question with respect to international taxation: whether a taxpayer’s cross-border activities will subject it to taxation by two or more countries. Tax treaties answer this question by establishing the minimum level of economic activity that must be engaged in within a country by a resident of the other country before the first country may tax any resulting business profits; wages; salaries; allowances; etc. In general terms, tax treaties provide that if the branch operations in a foreign country have sufficient substance and continuity, the country where those activities occur will have primary (but not exclusive) jurisdiction to tax. In other cases, where the operations in the foreign country are relatively minor,(i.e; salaried workers) the home country retains the sole jurisdiction to tax its residents.



Personal income tax (From Ministry of Finance of Vietnam)
Effective April 21, 2008


Personal Income Tax


There are currently four categories of taxpayers in Vietnam:
• Vietnamese citizens residing in Vietnam,
• Vietnamese citizens working, or on business trips, outside of Vietnam,
• Individuals who do not have Vietnamese citizenship but reside in Vietnam indefinitely, and
• Foreigners working in Vietnam including those who do not live in Vietnam but have income which is sourced in Vietnam.

Foreigners are deemed to be resident for tax purposes if they reside in Vietnam for an aggregate of 183 days or more within 12 consecutive months since their arrival in Vietnam, although this may be substantially changed by tax treaties.


Resident foreigners are subject to progressive tax rates; those who are not resident are liable to a single 25% tax on income earned in Vietnam if they spend between 30 days and 182 days in Vietnam.


Only foreigners who spend fewer than 30 days in Vietnam are exempt from income tax.


Taxable Income


Incomes which are subject to personal income tax include the following:


Regular income in the form of: salaries, wages, allowances and bonuses; income derived from scientific or technical services, technology transfer, licensing of rights to use inventions or trademarks, IT services, consultancy or training services or agency services; income from royalties; broking commissions; and other income not included in salaries or wages derived from business production or provision of services which is not subject to corporate income tax.


Irregular income derived from technology transfer and lottery winnings.


Non-Taxable Income


Non-taxable income includes:
• Traveling allowances;
• Allowances for toxicity and danger;
• Allowances for positions, allowances for responsibility with respect to officials and State employees;
• Regional allowances, incentive allowances and special allowances for work in offshore islands and border areas which have extremely harsh living conditions;
• Allowances for seniority with respect to the armed forces, customs, and cipher;
• Special allowances for certain industries and trades as stipulated by law;
• Allowances for officials who carried out revolutionary activities prior to 1945;
• Other allowances from the State Budget;
• Allowances for business trips;
• Fixed meal allowances for certain special industries and trades in accordance with regimes stipulated by the State;
• Social benefits for those entitled to social security and other benefits from the State Budget;
• Insurance compensation payments in respect of personal and property insurance policies;
• Retrenchment payments in accordance with regimes stipulated by the State;
• Allowances for relocation of production establishments, including one-off allowances for transferring to another region;
• Monetary prizes for technical innovations and inventions, international awards, and national awards organized by the State of Vietnam;
• Monetary prizes accompanying titles bestowed by the State, such as professor, people's teacher, workers' hero, and hero of the people's armed forces and other titles bestowed by the State; awards or other benefits from the State Budget;
• Money paid into social insurance or health insurance from salaries and wages of workers;
• Profits of the owner of a private business which is subject to corporate income tax.


Temporary Exemption


Interest income received from bank deposits and bank savings, profits from purchases of term bonds, ordinary bonds and Government bonds, income from investment in securities, and the difference on purchase and sale of securities are temporarily exempted from income tax.


Progressive Rates - Regular Income

For Vietnamese citizens and other individuals residing in Vietnam:

Level Average monthly per capita income (unit: 1,000 VND) Rate (%)
1 to 5,000 0
2 over 5,000 up to 15,000 10
3 over 15,000 up to 25,000 20
4 over 25,000 up to 40,000 30
5 over 40,000 40

For foreign residents in Vietnam and Vietnamese citizens working or on business trips overseas:

Level Average monthly per capita income (unit: 1,000 VND) Rate (%)
1 to 8,000 0
2 over 8,000 up to 20,000 10
3 over 20,000 up to 50,000 20
4 over 50,000 up to 80,000 30
5 over 80,000 40


For foreigners who are not residents of Vietnam, the flat tax rate is 25% of the total taxable income.


Contractually, your taxes obligations are clearly stated in the following clauses:


The Contractor undertakes and accepts responsibility to discharge promptly all Income Tax, National and Social Security and all other tax obligations arising in any jurisdiction (With the exception of Vietnam) in connection with his earnings hereunder and shall Keep (Name of Agency) fully indemnified in this respect.


Vietnam Airlines has warranted to (Name of Agency) that all tax obligations in connection with the contractors earnings hereunder imposed by the Vietnamese Government shall be borne in full by Vietnam Airlines.


There are some interesting things to note with regards to the Taxes.

• The following statement is of great interest; "...foreigners working in Vietnam including those who do not live in Vietnam but have income which is sourced in Vietnam…”

This statement would indicate that since your salary comes from monies that are paid to your agency, by Vietnam Airlines, that those monies could be considered as “Sourced” from Vietnam.
Another argument could be, that your salary is paid BY YOUR agency, thus it could be considered as sourced elsewhere.
What’s the answer? Honestly, I don’t know.
It’s also interesting to note, that your “…salary and ALLOWANCES…” are considered taxable in Vietnam.

In many countries, “Allowances” are not taxed, therefore the 25% obligation in Vietnam, would seem to go further in many other countries:
I.e.: An example from my home countries tax system – (Tax Treaty with Vietnam.)
• Vietnam Salary and Allowances = $96,000 (25% = $24,000)
• Home country calculation - salary only - $60,000 = (35% = $21,000)
• Result = I pay no additional taxes in my home country.(has worked this way for the past several years)



Conclusion

What does appear absolute is that your salary in Vietnam is taxed, and that rate is 25%. Furthermore, Vietnam Airlines has a contractual obligation to pay that tax on your behalf.


Therefore, if your country has a “Tax Treaty” with Vietnam, you should be able to consider 25% of your home countries tax obligation as “Fulfilled”. With the additional costs associated with working outside of your home country, it’s likely that these costs would reduce your taxable income to below the 25% threshold of your home country.


Some good advice is - as “Lost in Saigon” indicated - check with a Certified Tax Accountant or an Attorney in your home country.

[wakarandi]

Hi! I just received the contract and I am considering work in Vietnam. My question is this; Does the contract pays the ticket to go home and comeback to vietnam on the "off" days? I received on the contract that we should have "return economy ticket", and I was trying to clarified more the term "economy" and Rshwrth told me that the ticket is free, on Vietnam Airlines network. ¿any body has more information about it?
Thank you!!

[olepilot]

yes you get a free return ticket on VN network.
economy, but uprade to business if seats available

[youwantmetodowhat]

BTW everyone/anyone thinking of going to Vietnam it seems that the 4/4; 5/3 contracts on offer for pilots joining or already there is just not available any more. Is this true? I have also heard that the roster nightmares are true on the Bus. They are 3 A/C short of crews on the 320/1 fleet and there was an incident a week ago that can really only been put down to a basic error caused by the experienced Captain being exhausted due to flying too much. Surely they (management) need to/will learn from this...time will tell. But hey it may be only a rumour....

[jumpdrive]

dont worry pal' youll always go 1st class
no matter if its holidays or just going to hanoi for your medical
ive never seen it full on international flights
always half or empty, domestic maybe on the 320
but on the widebodies, no problem

[MyShout]

ia1166 and dreamland...did you guys kiss and make up or something (like one of you has left it sounded pretty bad, the rostering that is). What happened that was getting really interesting or has the rostering got sorted out....:D

[confirm-finals?]

Does anyone have any information on a330 sim check? Similar to a320?

[Dream Land]

Pilots for VNA don't really have a choice, the pilot base is in Hochiminh City, the hot spots include Phu My Hung (Dist 7), an all new area with close proximity to Intl. schools, a French hospital and lots of restaurants, also close to Dist 1, another hot spot is An Phu(Dist 2 & 9) which has a lot of new housing and also close to schools. Most families are in those two main locations.

In Hanoi I have a friend in the luxury Villas at Hanoi Ciputra, a very impressive village near West Lake, security guards on all main corners throughout the village and strategically located between Hanoi and the airport.

Good luck, D.L.

[Rabbit 1]

This is a handy site for apartments or houses in SGN. There's probably one for HAN as well but unsure of any link. I've not delt with the mob below but it offers prices and pictures which gives you some idea of what to expect.

http://www.chaocom.com/

[EK Snorkel]

Risworth is advertising in Flight for A330 FO positions offering different roster patterns.

Has anyone experience with the 4/4 roster pattern? Or 6/2 and 5/3 for that matter....How well does it actually work?

Thanks in advance

Snorki

[youwantmetodowhat]

read my post above.....

[fviloria]

Can anyone please tell me if the traveling allowance is included in the salary? :bored: If its not, how much does it average? What about hotels at layovers? Room for each? Perdiem? Thanks.

[Lost in Saigon]

There is no travel allowance. You get a VNA ticket in your mail slot.

Hotels are generally very nice (4 star, 5 star) individual rooms

No perdiems on layovers. Each contract or contractor is different, but part of your salary is called perdiems, and that covers every day of your contract.

EXAMPLE from 2 old contracts of mine:

Euro Pacific Remuneration:

Salary: US$4,500 per month
Per Diem: US$750 per month
Accommodation Allowance: US$750 per month

Total Package: US$6,000 per month
pro-rata, Vietnam tax free

Please note: The above package includes basic salary, per diems.

or

Parc

6 SALARY & PER DIEM USD 5,000 per month pro rata
7 ROSTER PATTERN Vietnam Airlines operate a roster pattern of six weeks on duty followed by two weeks off duty with a return economy ticket provided on Vietnam Airlines network (upgrade to business class on a space available basis)
8 ACCOMMODATION Parc shall provide an Accommodation Allowance of USD 1,000 per month to each First Officer to arrange accommodation at base accommodation at layover stations other than base.Vietnam Airlines shall provide hotel accommodation at layover stations other than base.

[EK Snorkel]

Just received terms and conditions from a contractor.

6/2 5/3 and 4/4 are available for A330 FOs.

Ongoing until at least 2013. :ok:

[cris95123]

i applied for this company one month ago
for the screening already you have to pay your hotel, your pick up, if you success the two first weeks they pay you only 50 $ by day during your ground course, while in hanoi , you have to pay your apartment and to manage your pick up, indian contracts are better for that
But the more funny with this company is when i went to airport to take my flight to go to bangkok via hanoi on vietnam airlines,they send to me "free" ticket, in fact while i was in boarding room they called me to request from me to pay 323€ for my ticket despite i explained that i was going for an interview , then 646€ for two ways, plus accommodation and fees around 300€,
1000€ the screening,

[Lost in Saigon]

i applied for this company one month ago[/B]


That doesn't sound like Vietnam Airlines.

[jumpdrive]

they have everything wirtten
its no surprise to one that reads that 1st
or if you ask a lot anyone
i knew it before to my sim ride
i knew that i had to pay the hotel
and i got it back in less than 24 hours
for the free ticket man
i think someone screw you up BIG time
no one pays nothing on the network of the airline
if you have to move yourself to a VNA departing station
they only pay you back 50% up to 1000 bucks

and to be honest with you
i was 4 years in india
this is a trillion times better place to work than "%$? india

if i were you i would ask the agency that sent you to the screening the real numbers

[MD83FO]

I'm an A320 FO at Qatar Airways open ended contract.
I am curious about the 4/4 scheme just so i can sort of live back home in southamerica.
I appreciate any input or word of advice..
cheers..

[Lost in Saigon]

I am not sure of the numbers for 320 FO, but here are some some numbers for 320 Captain:

Option A 6/2 USD10,800.

Option B 5/3 USD9,033

Option C 4/4 USD7,270

[varigflier]

Here are the numbers for A320 F/O:

Option A:
6 weeks ON duty, 2 weeks OFF duty
$8,000 per month
Option B:
5 weeks ON duty, 3 weeks OFF duty
$6,667 per month
Option C:
4 weeks ON duty, 4 weeks OFF duty
$5,333 per month

[youwantmetodowhat]

Yes they (PARC and Rishworth) are still offering different rostered time off. BUT. At the moment there is a line a mile long of pilots trying to get it and they (including guys who have been there for years) have been told that at the moment that it is not available due to administative constraints. When you think about it they are short on numbers and then they offer this to try to attract people, everyone comes, and then the new guys and the guys already there want to spend less time there. Its not going to work.

By the way "Lost" in your post regarding your past contract. You actually do pay tax but all tax obligations are borne in full by Vietnam Airlines. Please be careful when saying that the place is tax free. Its not.

Good luck guys who want to go. Its a great place but it has it's limitations..cya

[Lost in Saigon]

By the way "Lost" in your post regarding your past contract. You actually do pay tax but all tax obligations are borne in full by Vietnam Airlines. Please be careful when saying that the place is tax free. Its not.

I didn't say it was tax free. All I did was include a part of the contract sent to me by Euro Pacific.

Euro Pacific are the ones who call it tax free. And I would agree with that term because it is tax free to the person who reads the terms and conditions.

Vietnam Airlines may pay the tax, but it is totally invisible to the contract pilot. Vietnam Airlines sends money to the contractor who then deposits a nice big amount of US dollars every month to the bank of your choice. Most pilots I know have it deposited to a "tax free" off shore account to further make it "TAX FREE" from any other country wanting their share.

[mach 84]

changed my contract from 9/3 to 5/3 in june and had no problems at all.

[Khaosai]

Hi,

got the latest B777 contract a few days ago.

It states that you will likely commence your contract with the standard roster pattern of 6 weeks on duty, 2 weeks off duty.

There is the opportunity to change roster patterns to 5 weeks on, 3 weeks off, or 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, but those will be subject to approval by Vietnam Airlines.

Salaries for the above are approx: 13200 USD, 11000 USD and 8800 USD.

No schooling, no provident/pension fund and no loss of licence provided as far as i can see. I reckon that would be approx 4000 USD gone on those alone.

Add to that some form of medical/dental care for the family, along with housing in Vietnam, then thats another 2500 USD approx.

Disposable income is better here in EK, but i would imagine life in Vietnam would far exceed life here in Dubai, which gets more frustrating by the day. I guess it always comes down to some sort of compromise !.

I have some leave in Oct, so might pop over for a look around.

Rgds.

[youwantmetodowhat]

Hey guys I am just passing on what I have heard. Thats all. Maybe everyone is getting it, thats great. Good luck, but dont say I didn't warn you. Maybe someone else there might be able to throw some light on the subject of the various weekly patterns for the 320 fleet.

[long-gonner]

Hey guys. Just looking for information on what VN looks for with A320 type rated pilots. Are they accepting guys with the "circle vmc only restriction"? Also, is there a network of local pilots there in SGN for setting up shared apartments and anything like social network, or does everyone just go their own separate way at the end of a roster/trip/ID?

Thanks for any info!

[ClimbSequence]

Can anyone share information about the salary for an ATR Capt please????

[evyjet]

For the 777 Captain contract, does anyone know if the accommodation whilst in Vietnam is supplied, or is that out of your own pocket?

What is life on the line like? Local F/Os ok to fly with??

5 on 3 off sounds like a good deal to me! Is Rishworth the only contractor for them?

Thanx, Evy

[LindbergB767]

Some of you should read the previous 23 Pages where you will find all the infos you need

To work in Vietnam you need to go with an agency
Parc Aviation is the first choice
then Europacific and Ristworth

The salary include EVERYTHING no tax to pay in Vietnam (but your country????)

Everything means if you receive 12000 US/month
you pay for your accomodation * maybe 1000 us /month
you pay your food and beers and all your expense (except Hotel and transport OFF base )for your 6 weeks anywhere you are
your travel is free on your rotation on Vietnam Airlines ONLY
If you live in America(exemple) you will have to BUY a ticket from Paris, Frankfurt or Tokyo to your destination
No pension plan
No school allowance for kids
No dispatch
No loss of license insurance
For those pilots who are working with a real Airlines (SIA,Emirates,ect,ect) stay where you are (I know some of you are not happy at those Airlines but this is 100 times better)
IF you D ONT HAVE A JOB now YES it is a good place to work specialy if you are single
The FO are generally OK
Roaster a lot of change on ATR and A320 B777 not so bad

[jumpdrive]

well just to add my opinion on 3 things

f/o's............DO suck................no SOP, no discipline, half of the check list's , they think they're driving a scooter, its like if some one told them to do nothing but take all the catering after a days work from the galleys!!!! if you can get along with that you'll be just fine , ohhhh they also smoke like prostitutes in the cockpit no permission asked to the captain

roster on the 320 its the worst !!!! not ATR, thats a paid holiday for those guys

and it doesnt matter if youre married
it will not be too difficult to find some cute viet girl :ok:

c ya

[DoctorEcam]

FO... do suck???????????:=:=Hey Skipper take it easy:) may be they smoke like whores but you complain like one of them:}

[Dream Land]

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I feel that FO's on the A320 fleet operate on a very high standard, many have already progressed to the L/H seat are doing well.

Cheers D.L.

[spinproof]

Would appreciate any info on the sim interview. I will be heading out to SIN in a couple of weeks....

Also any recommendations on good, inexpensive areas to live in Saigon?

Private messages are cool.

Thanks!

[packoverheat]

Hello!

I am also attending a sim session within two weeks! Anyone with some advise?

Thanks very much in advance!

grtz:ok:

[DoctorEcam]

hello folks

just to know...how long does it take to be called for the sim after having applied with parc?

thks a lot in advance:ok:

[Jimmy Do Little]

I am also attending a sim session within two weeks! Anyone with some advise?


PM me for details.

Cheers

[Jimmy Do Little]

just to know...how long does it take to be called for the sim after having applied with parc?


Can be anywhere from Minutes, to months. Generally, within a few weeks.

[Jimmy Do Little]

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I feel that FO's on the A320 fleet operate on a very high standard, many have already progressed to the L/H seat are doing well.

Cheers D.L.


Generally speaking, I have to agree. Like any other airline, there are always exceptions, but as a general rule these guys are pretty good operators.

[Jimmy Do Little]

If you a a Cirling VMC restriction they will reject your application ,
Also if you are a fit office you need to have had a check ride within the past 6 months. Its tough if your FAA FO and only required to have one every 12 months. I would give it a go anyway I did hear that they changed there minimums .
good Luck.

One recent candidate that I'm aware of had the same issue. His solution was to attend one of the type-rating schools in the US ("Primair" I recall was the name of the school) and pay for his own check-ride renewal. Also, he had the "Circling" restriction removed during that check-ride.

Incidently, he was successfull in his SIM evaluation and will be joining VNA in the coming weeks.

[Jimmy Do Little]

Is Rishworth the only contractor for them?

No, Parc Aviation and Rishworth share the recuiting efforts. But, if you have already had Rishworth (or Parc) begin any recruitment process on your behalf, you will not be able to change agencies. There is an accepted rule that once one agency has you, you cant' change to another UNTIL the end of the first contract. Even then, changing agencies is subject to all sorts of different criteria and approvals.

[A319rider]

Hi guys,

Anybody who has been to the screening recently would be so kind to share their experience?
I've been invited to singapore and would like to know as much as possible before getting there.
Thanks in advance and safe flying.

[spinproof]

If you use Airbus FCOM already, you should be fine.
Have you received your syllabus? We followed the syllabus that was sent to us.

Even though my sim partner and I came from different airlines with different procedures, we were able to get through the sim evaluation and offered positions.

You will get multiple failures, circling and vor approaches, landing with at least a 20 knot cross wind and no auto thrust or auto pilot.

[A319rider]

Thanks for that info. No I haven't recieved any syllabus yet, probably because I don't have a fixed date for the sims.
Is there anything else on the screening apart from the sims? any technical questionare or one to one interview?
Thanks again and safe flying.

[UFC]

Gday guys,

Ive also applied for an A320 f/o job through PARC. Has anybody recieved any dates for screening in Nov as my application has been in the system for over a month? Is it normal to deal with one person one week and a different person the next during this process. From experience who do you guys believe is better PARC or Rishworth? Lastly how many weeks notice do they give you before the actual screeing date? Your help is greatly appreciated!

Rgrds
UFC!!;)

[cpt.parrot]

Hey UFC... for what it's worth I've had the exact some results that you have. I've applied with Parc and been told that my app has been approved and to expect an evaluation in November as soon as they finalize their sim dates. (Also dealt with several different people which kind of confused me as well).

I guess we just have to be patient...

:hmm:

[Jimmy Do Little]

From experience who do you guys believe is better PARC or Rishworth?

I'm not going to chance any action from either of the companies by posting my opinion about this.

However, there are several cases of Rishworth Pilots changing over to Parc for various reasons. There is NOT ONE instance of a Parc Pilot changing over to Rishworth!

I think that this fact speaks for itself, thus answers your question. :O

[Abacus]

:OHi guys.

Lots of info on a320 topics, but does anyone know of the latest situation re
A330 recruitment, in particular Capts. I seem to get mixed messages about the A330 fleet for DEC's. Parc and Rishworth are advertising but some posts infer not a lot is happening. Any latest info would be very helpful.

Many thanks

[UFC]

Thanks Jimmy for you reply. I guessed that my be the case!
:ok:

[capt777chris]

When are you "committed" when you talk to these contract agencies? I have only submitted paperwork, not gone to a screening yet. I signed a declaration that states "if accepted for an interview and if I successfully pass the screening I agree to be contracted only by XXXX, on its contract with yyy airline." At what time in the process are you 'committed'? Is the above statement a two parter--pass the screening and get accepted for an interview?

I was told that I could apply to several contracting agencies but to different Airlines, ie xxx contract agency for an Asian carrier and YYY agency for a Middle East carrier. Is that correct?

On another front--how does one keep current while awaiting a job offer?

[Hook Down]

Can someone tell me what you need to bring to the sim check in Singapore as far as paperwork? Do you need to bring licenses, log books, medical, or anything else?

My contract agency is trying to get me a simulator date at the end of this month. I am leaving for a long holiday this weekend and may not have time to come back home to pick up anything so it would be great if someone can tell me what I need to bring with me on holiday in case I have to go straight down to Singapore.

Thanks a lot in advance.

[Luke Darkstar]

The agency told me to bring all the papers which were already sent as a copy (pdf file) to the agency during application before. But during sim check I didn't need to show them. Nevertheless you should have them with you just in case they want to see it during sim check.
Later on when you are starting ground training you will have to give them to the office, then they will be given to CAAV for issuing your licence.

[Hook Down]

Thanks Luke.

To clarify, did you actually bring all your log books or just a copy of the last few pages?

[stardustcologne]

I did bring the whole book, they told me to bring it with me, but I didn't need to show. Maybe it depends on the fleet if they want to see it or not. You should bring it with you. Are yours that heavy? If they are that heavy and you don't want to carry them around during your vacation then just leave it, tell them you are very sorry in case they ask for it, but definitely bring all your licences with you and then the copies of the last pages.
You will have to hand over your original logbooks later on during ground training.

[Hook Down]

OK, I get the idea now. Thanks for info Stardust.

[leegoose]

Just got back and the whole thing was pretty straight forward. Make sure you go through all those failures i.e. Dual Hyd., ADR3 w/ IR1., etc. get familiar with the book and when the thing downgrades into direct law you are handflying it and it's a little squirly....fly green dot plus 10 until configured, I flew clean green dot and got the STALL, STALL...it doesn't take much to get that(very small margin). If you are not familiar w/ the bird you need to be as it is a great tool for NPA's which by the way are all selected/selected @ VAC and for the eval. GOOD LUCK BRO!

[THRidle]

Hi Guy's, Just wondering if someone could let me know the latest route structure for the A330.

Thanks in advance.

[Jimmy Do Little]

Just wondering if someone could let me know the latest route structure for the A330.


Structure! What mean?

[ia1166]

For NPAs VAC is as with everything 100% Airbus SOPs.

As none of our approaches are validated, the vertical profile cannot be flown, only the lateral profile.

So NAV/FPA if the accuracy check is high, or TRACK/FPA on 2 engines.

One 1 engine Airbus sop is TRACK/FPA only.

All NPAs are flown as a constant descent profile to MDA where you land or carry out a missed approach. There is no descent to MDA, level off and fly into the MAP. This is in line with JAA and most of the world. It's also covered in Jepps.

Just clarifying the comment on selected approachs only mentioned above.

Incidently with VAC there is no additive to MDA for an NPA which is actually mentioned in FCOM.

[ia1166]

Direct law is fine. You may have been overweight and dual hyd fail, which will make life harder and the stall more likely due to the lack of flight controls maybe?

For the sim profile it's best to configure on a long straight final. Ask for it from ATC. Also use manual thr and don't take all the power off when you start to configure and when you do don't stop until you're at flap 2. It's G+B hyd that has failed so on selection of flap 1 you don't get anything until you select flaps2. Slats are inop. It's probably why you got the stall warner.

As a tip i've found configuring in a shallow descent makes it easier. If the VSW starts to increase towards KIAS you can gently unload the wing to control it.

anyway just my 2 bobs worth

[ia1166]

VAC are trying to instigate a 10% pay cut now.

[THRidle]

ia1166- I'm waiting for a sim. date for the 330, and in view of your last post, I'm wondering what job security you would have if starting with VAC. ??

[youwantmetodowhat]

I've heard that too. It will be interesting if the agencies show any balls and stand up for the pilots on this one. I would seriously think twice about going there after this. The contracts are really not worth the paper they are written on if they let this go through and the agencies are going to not only loose pilots but a s%^t load of money too. Thin edge of the wedge and all.

They just gave their local boys a big pay increase and I believe the former CP is now the VP of the airline is behind this. He hates expats and always has and this just is another example of it. He was apparently offered the top job at at CAAV but would not have had the power...Total power tripper...there are other desciptions for him of course but we cant use those words on this forum. Any more info from the guys there???

[nom de plume]

It will be interesting if the agencies show any balls and stand up for the pilots on this one. Not much likelyhood of that!

I would seriously think twice about going there after this.Since news of this pay cut came to light, I've received 3 offers for interviews with other airlines in the region. The representatives at those companies all told me that they have seen an increase in the applicant's currently at VN Air.


The contracts are really not worth the paper they are written on This may come as a surprise, but one can never trust anything that the vietnamese say.

They just gave their local boys a big pay increase and they still act like a bunch of monkeys.

I believe the former CP is now the VP of the airline is behind this. True, he is now VP, and like every other fiasco that has occured at VN Air, he is directly behind it.

Total power tripper You hit the nail squarly with the hammer on that one.

there are other desciptions for him of course but we cant use those words on this forum. You're polite, I'll give you that.:ok:

[jumpdrive]

any news ?
other than our "dear" capt:yuk: Yuc reduction plan ?
guess evryone's on a holliday he he

[longobard]

for all the guys in VNA with one PARC option scheme (A,B, or C)...when they say you have 6 weeks on duty followed by 2 weeks off, do they mean that in the 6 week period you don't have a single OFF day? If no, how many OFF days do you have per month? Does it also mean that the 2 weeks off periods you are up also with the annual leave?

thanks folks

[THRidle]

If you’re thinking of joining on the A320 fleet it’s academic as I understand recruitment has been put on hold “Indefinitely”, but yes you do get day’s off.

[classicart]

does anyone know if VAC are still hiring for the ATR?
do they hire foreign FO's?
what about this non type rated positions I see advertised?

[longobard]

THRidle

i was thinking about 330, anyway how many OFF days in the 6 weeks period by contract?

Does the annual leave exists by contract? If yes, how many days?

[THRidle]

Longobard,

I’m still working through the contract right now, but the way I read it, you are guaranteed days off each week but there is no "Annual Leave" as those days are taken up by the 2 weeks off after every 6 weeks in Vietnam.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

THRidle

[Luke Darkstar]

Guaranteed?
There are certain days off, but not really "guaranteed". Neither the off days nor the duties are guaranteed, because there are a lot of changes in schedule...
You will have at least 36 hours off after 7 days duty. You might have more than that, in average one off day every 4/5 to 7 days, very rarely you have two off days in a row. And a few stby's.

[longobard]

thanks a lot guys!
do you personally fell ok overthere?

[UALSIC]

He fells fine I am sure !!!!!!!!!!! :}

[A319rider]

Hi guys,

anyone in VAC have more info about the contract negotiations?

Are they still trying to reduce the pay for expats? or have they come to

senses and are not looking into it anymore?

Thanks for your time.

[Qanchor]

longobard,
re, A330
The 6 & 2 roster is as you've guessed and it works well. During busier times sometimes (Tet) you may be asked to work beyond the 6 weeks, but additional days are then added to your 2 weeks off. They are pretty good about this and will not spiv you.
As for 2 days a week off, (as per the contract), you have to "flexible" about this. When the roster is published you will get one RDO every week with a stand-by day beside it. Most of the time you will work on the stand-by day. If there's an important volleyball game on or the weather is crook, you'll be called.
This rostering practice is not in accordance with the FOM, and the roster girl is quite inflexible on this. The agencies will not help you & going to the fleet mgr or C/P to complain about her is like going to your mother-in-law to complain about your wife.
Saigon is a great place to live, safe & cheap by western standards and the expat crewmembers are all great people.
Hope this helps.....rgds:ok:

[THRidle]

Qanchor,

Are you on the A330 ? Could you let me know the destination the 330 fly's to.

Thanks in advance.

THRidle

[Qanchor]

G'day THRidle,
Was on the 330 there but have moved on. I believe they still have only 3 aircraft so the route structure is somewhat limited. When I left, the 330 operated several services daily between Saigon/Danang/Hanoi, every night to Kensai & Incheon and Narita on the weekend.
I think 2 or 3 more aircraft are coming next year, (don't bank on it until you can kick the tyres), the network will obviously expand, where to is anyones guess but Aust & Euro destinations have been mooted.
The 320 guys are experiencing some grief with the T & C's of their contracts at the moment but the 777 & 330 seems to be ok.
cheers 'n beers
:ok:

[THRidle]

Thanks Mate.

Much appreciated.

[Luke Darkstar]

Hi!

So, the route structure is certainly quite limited by the time. You only have domestic flights to Hanoi and Danang, then there are flights to Incheon, Osaka and Fukuoka. Maybe some special destinations. But most of the time we expat pilots will fly domestic, more rarely international than the local pilots. This is due to the payscale of the local pilots: Locals get some more per diems on international flights (so I was told and I can understand). So it is understood that they are preferred flying to these destinations.

Nevertheless: In March/April there will be two more aircraft (as they say) and further two more in October. They wish to get rid of the very old A333. So maybe by the end of next year there will be 6 A332 - or maybe still 7 aircraft with the additional A333.
Then the route structure might be extended by Australia, Taiwan and even Russia. Yet it is still rumours, so we will see, it is still a bit time to go until then.

And about the rostering ladies: Up to now I think they are very communicative, they fulfilled quite some of my requests and so I am willing to cope with their changes on short notice - no problem. No point to complain.

[Kato747]

Whats the going rate for B777 skippers at VN? Monthly "Pay", ........ not inflated prices for the girls downtown!

[Paladini]

Just what are the T&Cs for the 777?

[youwantmetodowhat]

Is it true that the new contracts are being offerred at about $9300 USD/Month for A320 Captains?

Does this mean that it is only a matter of time before the present contracts when they expire will be at the reduced rate? If not before?!?!?

It is very interesting that they tell you that they are loosing money when the flights out of Europe and Australia are all full from what I understand. The only thing I can think of with this is someone hedged fuel at the peak of the fuel price and they have egg on their face and they are now trying to make up for it. :uhoh:

Good luck guys.....they will tell you one thing and do something else by the sounds of things.

[UALSIC]

As of the story I got today - A320 contracts still going out (they are hiring)......

Class of 12 starting in FEB...

Just took a delivery of an A321 - 2 weeks ago.

[NVpilot]

It is very interesting that they tell you that they are loosing money when the flights out of Europe and Australia are all full from what I understand Yes agree, here's an article from Vietnam News, anyone thinking of joining for 9,300.00 should know that everyone else is on 10,800.


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h159/180MPH/Article.jpg

[Sciolistes]

What is even more intriguing is that when, a few months ago, Vietnam Airlines announced that they expected to make an overall profit this year, analysts questioned it. There was much bemusement. I guess even more now that the turnaround in fortunes from $5m loss to $14m profit came from in 6 monhts :hmm:

[kwaiyai]

Just out of interest, whats the score regarding Licence. Am Applying for
ATR72 Capt. Regards.

[jumpdrive]

no worries on that lic
its a piece of cake

[V2+30 Flaps Up]

I am awaiting a call as we speak but the contract details sent out to me last month (when I submitted my application) noted $8k for 320 F/O's.

I trust that when (and if) I get a call for screening I am not presented with this $7200 figure that has been floating around. I will not be accepting it if it is as, to me, that's dirty business to entice with one number, and then lay down another.

[UALSIC]

I as of yet, have not met anybody who have qualified or accepted a different contract than what you have quoted...........

No bait and switch here bud...............:ugh: