Vietnam Airlines (info please)

[Kapitanleutnant]

The difference between getting fired and getting let go/furloughed??? Jeez dude... that difference is HUGE!

It will matter when you go to your next job interview... and are asked why you left. Would you rather your answer be, "I was fired".... or, "I was layed off".

If I'm hiring pilots... or anyone for that matter, I'm NOT going to hire the guy who was FIRED!

HUGE DIFFERENCE Kimono.

K

[BlackandWhite2000]

Let me provide some detailed info about the so-called "777 expats all get fired" story.

First of all, VNA has been flying 787 for a while already, it is not a new fleet just started 3 months ago. So, from long time ago, VNA had provided chances for 777 expats transfering to 787. In the end, if you accept the transfer, you have to pay a bond for 3 years in advance, but no other training fee. After 3 years, you get your bond back.

So the real cost is, when you begin the ground school, you do not get any payment until you begin the IOE. This is the main reason, that many 777 expats refuse, or do not apply for, the 787 fleet transfer. Because for a very long time, the schedue for 777 expats is so relax, so why bothering to transfer to 787 and pay the bond for 3 years, plus 1-2 months no income?

I have friends in 777. Some check out and fly in 787 already. Unfortunately, for those who think they can stay in 777 forever, flying 30 hours per month and get 1xxxx USD per month, they all got the 60 days notice.

True, I do not think the deal for 787 fleet transfer is the best one.
But "FIRED" is not a very accurate word. Those get the 60 days notice now, they all had chances long time ago. They did not accept the deal, now they have to leave VNA. I think this is fair enough.

[kimono1950]

You are wrong, the bond is for 3 years ( not reducing ), but you need to pay for the training too. You will get the cost back after 5 years ( still not reducing ), if you do it in 2017, after that you will pay for it.

Do not say, the foreigners have had the chance to move, it is VNA who decide, when and who.
I told you before, one guy was flying the 787 for 6 months and have been layed off ( Kapitanleutnant )

VNA is managed by idiots, simple .

[BlackandWhite2000]

Ok, I have no idea who is the guy in 787 been laid off, i do not know him. Even so, you can simply open your eyes and see once again what I am talking about.
I am talking about the so called "777 expats all get fired" story.

And this story, my friend, was made by you on 04/Jan/2017.
"All B-777 expats have been fired"
This is exactlly the words you said. Ok?
Not remember? go back to the post by you on 04/Jan/2017 and see it for yourself, its not long ago.

Even there is one guy get LAID OFF, you intentionlly exaggerated it, for some reasones, by saying "All B-777 expats", and you keep this point all the way till now.

Do you know, how many expats have been transferred to 787 in the last 2 years?
The answer is: Many.
Do you know, since when, VNA had been asking 777 expats their intensions about moving to 787?
The answer is: From at least 2 years ago.

Do not play "word" game, my friend. What is the definition of "chance"?
All B-777 expats got the email from agencies about the transferring from long time ago.
You could simply reply the email and say "YES".
You could simply go to 777 fleet office and say "YES".
No one's there to STOP you.
2 of my friends said "YES", and they are in 787 now.
3 of my friends ignored the email, and they get the 60 days notice now.
This is not a "chance" to you?

Again, I do not say the deal for transferring is the best one, but you have 100% freedom to make your decision: YES or NO, TAKE IT or LEAVE IT.

By the way, if some expats did not have the chance to move to 787 because they're already 5x years old, please do not bring it to this discussion.

[BlackandWhite2000]

I do not enjoy talking about this, but....

In the last 2 years, for so many times, I "reminded" my friends in 777,
that they had the opportunity to fly the excellent 787,
that they could expect to have a stable job in VNA for xx years in 787,
that sooner or later the 777 fleet would be phased-out and they might lose their jobs in VNA,
that they should act quickly before it's too late,
.......
For fxxking 2 years, I kept reminding them. Because I knew they enjoyed the life in 777 fleet for years, and they would love to stay in VNA for another xx years.

And what's the response from them?
They showed me their schedules and said: "Hey man, I only flew 40 hours last month. And this month I fly only 25 hours and I have 2 weeks vacation. Why should I move?"
Then I said: "But, what if VNA phase-out the 777 fleet?"
They looked at me with big smiles and said: "That is only a rumor from years ago....VNA will keep some 777 because VNA can not find any buyer. There is no worry."

Conversations such as this one, kept going on for 2 years, and they insisted only "idiot expat" would pay the bond and move to 787 from 777.
Now, they have to say "Bye Bye" to everything they enjoy so much in Vietnam.

I never ask them: " If time went back to 2 years ago, would you make a different decision?"
No need to ask. I do not see their big smiles anymore, and that is the answer we both know deeply in our hearts.

Also, for the last 7 years, I personally know 2 expats got FIRED, without 60 days notice, only 2.
1 did not pass the PC.
1 had serious CRM problems with all pilots. Even his countryman hoped VNA kicked him out.

Sure, maybe there is more.
I do not personally know the other expats got FIRED without 60 days notice, but I do believe, there must be a very strong reason behind.
"An 787 expat captain got fired simply because a local guy is coming to 787 to take his seat?"
My friend, I do not buy it. Either you do not know the whole story, or you are hiding something from us and you intentionally exaggerate something you want to show us.

[kimono1950]

I have checked the daily schedule for the 787 and only 3 names were not viet , 2 of which ,did join VNA as DEC on 787. I do not know, what means many in your mouth ?

The agencies asked about the 787 ( and 350 ) 1 year ago, not 2. But probably you are better informed than me.

Nb all the 777 expats have been layed off ( fired, what so ever ).

[Chocks Away]

...only 3 names were not viet , 2 of which ,did join VNA as DEC on 787
Well that explains the 787 departure out of London that wasn't reaching cruise speed or Altitude... until they realised they had the gear down for the last hour!

[L-13]

For the gents who were thinking joining VNA, the latest is the following :

All B-777 expats have been fired
No more upgrading to PIC for the expats
More than 70% of the A-330 expat crew will be fired
35 A-321 expat FOs have been fired
The P2F is the norm for the new expats
100 vietnameses cadets will take your RHS
All the low experienced viet FOs will take your LHS

After that, good luck for the agencies to find new idiots to come to this low grade crap ! :ugh::mad:
dear kimono,
So 35 expat FO's on A321 also got fired?
A friend of mine flies there but did't get that news...he heard about the 777 but not about his fleet..how accurate is this information?

[kimono1950]

Information coming from a vietnamese Cpt, well connected to the mng. Now if it is true.......I can not say .

[ia1166]

Information coming from a vietnamese Cpt, well connected to the mng. Now if it is true.......I can not say .

Its not. Stop spreading lies. Enough already. You insult the management then pass on information you say you have from them.

They have not sacked 35 fos.

If you dont like it. Leave.

[ia1166]

Its not. Stop spreading lies. Enough already.

If you dont like it. Leave.

There are a lot of people pretty content here all things considered. Some of us here a long time which should mean something. If you have somewhere better to go you should.

[kimono1950]

Bla bla bla.....:hmm:

[pezetaroi]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that they will reduce the working rosters (salary included) of ALL A321 Captains following the Tet; maximum salary will be 9,600 on the 6x3. Still want to join? Don't worry, obviously no new entries this year...

[kimono1950]

Oh yes , I forgot about that one ! :ugh:


In here, some guys will say, you are a bull**** man ! ;)

[booze]

Just an answer i got recently after an application through an agency: "due to a change of fleet plans, the airline are not currently looking at accepting pilots for the A320 fleet."

[Flappo]

I love them. Is all about love babe.


So happy that I´m leaving.


Enjoy guys.

[bob_bowne]

A bit of misinformation on this thread and the usual trolls full of spleen but it is all ‘sort of’ true.

All except 1 of the remaining expat B777 Captains and F/Os did receive 60 days notice of termination.

The company has also indicated that they would like to reduce the expat F/Os on the A321 by 35 in 2017.

The expat pilots given notice were told that there were no upgrade opportunities for them even if they had previously been told that there was.

Subsequent to this, some expat pilots on the B777 have been advised that they may now remain but so far, have not been given any other details.

Rumour has it that one B787 Captain received a letter stating that he may be given notice as he was surplus to requirements at the same time as there were 3 new expat B787 captains training.

The fact that management of the airline is dysfunctional is beyond dispute by both expats and locals.

The Company has had for some time now, had a well known aim of Nationalising the operation by 2018.

[kimono1950]

Good luck for that. :eek:

[ia1166]

The company has also indicated that they would like to reduce the expat F/Os on the A321 by 35 in 2017.

Obviously. they have plenty of cadets coming. Not recruiting for fos for a while.

The Company has had for some time now, had a well known aim of Nationalising the operation by 2018.

Obviously. Why wouldn't they. Maybe not in next few years though.

The expat pilots given notice were told that there were no upgrade opportunities for them even if they had previously been told that there was.

I was told by some 330 fos that why would they take a command on the 321 for roughly the same salary and a lot more work? Well there is your reason. They should have jumped on the chance when offered. But they didn't. Any contract pilot will tell you to get a command at all costs.

The fact that management of the airline is dysfunctional is beyond dispute by both expats and locals.

Really? I see no direct affect on me. A couple of guys from BA i met on holiday skiing told me they were only flying 2 routes a month on the 74, and some 78 guys were not flying at all due to too many 78 drivers trained and now no aircraft. they're all on the slopes in Morzine having a great time on full pay. I think airline management is not something i want to get involved with so happy to let someone else do it and not complain. Easy to sit on the fence and throw insults. maybe you should volunteer.

[ia1166]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that they will reduce the working rosters (salary included) of ALL A321 Captains following the Tet; maximum salary will be 9,600 on the 6x3. Still want to join? Don't worry, obviously no new entries this year..

Great. I have been after 5 and 3 for years. This is the best news of 2017 so far.

There you go. Mentioned. Its a gift from the gods.

Its also a lot better than lay offs. If you'd prefer they took this option maybe you should volunteer? If you think about it its actually a plus for management. The original contract is for 6 and 2. Increased rosters are a variation. So in reality it is only a minor change to original roster.

[pezetaroi]

Certainly, a reduced roster is always better than layoffs and 5x3 may fit you well, but if you have your kids on schools here, the cost of living goes way up, as tuition fees are nothing but cheap. Anyway, latest news is that a number of Captains have seeked other options and will leave, leaving the current situation a bit different, so we'll have to wait to see what happens. Nevertheless, no hiring is expected this year.

[Top gun pilot 797]

Quick question.
If these B777 expat captains were flying lifestyle rosters of 30-40 hours a month, may I enquiry as to what was their take home pay in that case.
Just curious ... :cool:

[V1RotateGearUp]

They've started handing out 60 day notices to expat FOs. Any info on this?

[kimono1950]

35 FOs as told before. There are 300 viet cadets waiting to take the RHS. I wish good luck to VNA to find new expat morons,the day it will see the big mistake who has been done.

[V1RotateGearUp]

Verified. Got 1 FO last week so far given his walking papers with 4 days notice. They said they'll be handing out lay offs in the following weeks too.

[bob_bowne]

The Boeing 777s are now pushed up against the fence, only rumours about their future, all crews both local and expat are either waiting for upgrade information or terminated. The Boeing 787 fleet has continued to employ direct entry expat captains.

[Bus Junkie]

Jetstar is rumored to be taking 35 of your local cadets in the near future. Your local FOs that we have all suffer from narcolepsy, laziness and real dislike for non VNA SOPs.

[V1RotateGearUp]

Some agencies trying to transfer the FOs affected by the early contract termination to JetStar. They are also giving some FOs a chance upgrade, but with a catch. If you pass the interview, you'll have to wait for almost a year before you start training, for the meantime have to go home and wait for the call, without salary. There's some expat FOs recently released on the line as late as January too. No planning, or poor planning. Either way, it's done without concern for the pilots.

[Ruzki]

I do confirm
Lots of high level FO as been terminated, or humiliated with non sense question during upgrade interview!
Company decided too upgrade local FO with 2500 hours ( not able to land with xwind) and let those guys go
Huge loss of experience for the company!!!
Us captains... NEXT!!

[wingdeagle]

Who needs flight hours and experience ? You have SOPs and as long as you follow them "strictly" nothing bad will ever happen !

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Good luck!

[wingdeagle]

"( not able to land with xwind)" this will require a control input and control inputs are not encouraged by the company as they could lead to several events requiring a punishment of crew ! Don't blame the crew, blame the airline.

[Ruzki]

Well... i know punishment by the airline for crews whi forgot the ldg gear down for 45 min without reconize that... i know punishment for crew continusly mistaking SID and STAR in japan.. i know punishment for crew that almost killed pax on A350 withot reconizing a depressurizzation..
Never heard any punishmet for people landing with xwind, or making a rawdata App.
Pilot fly... or they supposed to?
And yes its the Airline fault.. and pilots are part of that.

[captain330]

I am really interested in joining HVN however reading about this news is not very encouraging. How many expats can there be in the airline?

[captain330]

Hi I saw the news that Vietnam Airlines is laying off expats, I was encouraged to apply but I am not sure anymore. Is it true? I mean how many candidates can you lay off?

[wingdeagle]

Never heard any punishmet for people landing with xwind, or making a rawdata App.
Pilot fly... or they supposed to?

Ruzki, I hope you understood the sarcasm in my post. If you are a Captain at VN, you probably would have noticed the low standards of many first officers controlling the airplane. These low standards come from pure fear of making a mistake while controlling the aircraft, always having in mind the dreaded "level" list which can lead to punishment or worse a public humiliation called "safety briefing". Too much yaw, too much bank, too much speed, too much this and that. Especially for new pilots this is pure poison for their development. Therefore you may see poor (or no) crosswind technique and other basic things. But as I said, as long as you follow SOPs "strictly" nothing will ever happen (at least VN management believes that).

[bigbird]

Agree totally with wingdeagle. They are so scared of flying because of this company culture of punishment and humiliations that they cannot build basic flying skills.

[Ruzki]

Sorry i didnt catch the sarcasm..
And i totally agree with u.
As for the expat.. more to be fired

[captain330]

Hi guys thank you all for your comments. I am currently working in PIC . I got a message that QR is coming to Vietnam, is this true?

[booze]

got a message once again that they are hiring now A320 LTCs, TRIs, TREs...

[Oscar84]

Got the same message.

Looking for A320 captains again????

[TANUA]

Message from who-which agency?

[Ruzki]

They are looking for tri/tre ltc to replace the ones who left!!!
In 1.5 y all captains will be terminated ( I was in the office today)
Stay away!!!!

[Viking101]

You mean that trainers being hired now will have their contracts terminated in 1,5 years from now???

Can't be right. Sounds totally insane should that be true.

Rishworth is one agency that takes applications for trainers positions.

VNA seems to be a good company, only bad things I have heard before is that the upgrade to the A350 is down to who you know in the management.

[Ruzki]

If you think is a good company go for it
Rishwhort in the agency with most of the pilots terminated, and most of the cpt on the way to have a reduced roster.
Im one of those.
I work here ( not for long ) and yes nothing make sense.

[JammedStab]

Well... i know punishment by the airline for crews whi forgot the ldg gear down for 45 min without reconize that... i know punishment for crew continusly mistaking SID and STAR in japan.. i know punishment for crew that almost killed pax on A350 withot reconizing a depressurizzation..

Interesting stories...any more details? I would be interested to know more.

Thanks

[V1RotateGearUp]

You mean that trainers being hired now will have their contracts terminated in 1,5 years from now???


Nobody really knows. One thing looks certain though is that all (if not most) expat FOs are on their way out. Company would rather get pay to fly expats and pay 800 usd per month or locals for 3K than hire expats. Also with all the local cadets waiting to get released, it will only take some time before this company gets nationalized, just hoping they give ample time for guys to prepare to move out and not the 2 month surprise the FOs had.

The boost in TRI and LTI really make sense for VNA. A lot of cadet waiting to get released in the line, after that, your guess is as good as mine. It was good while it lasted, just sad for those who came late to the party.

There's a lot of better companies out there to work for, one that you wont have to think about where you'll end up next year constantly is probably a better choice.

[pezetaroi]

Surprisingly in the latest twist of news, they have respected the Captains original roster and will not be a downgrade in the salary. But the "Master Caution" has already appeared and with several roadshows in Vietnam, it's a matter of time of when aviators start leaving for better and more stable options. Indeed, the "Vietnamization" of VNA is underway and probably will be completed in no more than three years.

[ATH]

Hi folks, this is my first post here. I am an unemployed brazilian ATR captain and I were invited to join VNA. Is there any VNA's ATR pilot in here or others VNA's pilot that could tells me some infos about being an ATR pilot in Vietnam? Thanks a lot!!

[Obbie]

QATAR AIRWAYS RECRUITMENT SHOW IN SGN :

Flight Deck Presentation-Times and location as below:
Date: 3rd & 4th April 2017
Two sessions per day: 10:00 and/or 13:00
Venue: EASTIN Grand Hotels Saigon
253 Nguyen Van Troi Street – Phu Nhuan District
Ho Chi Minh City, Vietman

FLIGHT DECK CREW ONLY

[CPR]

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen.

I'm currently seeking employment on the A320/1 fleet based in HAN.
Any info would be greatly appreciated on the feasibility of commuting between HAN and SYD/MEL. Direct flights? Stby travel and likelihood of upgrades? What is VNA policy on using crew jumps seats?

Many thanks in anticipation.

[Yesse]

Hi folks, this is my first post here. I am an unemployed brazilian ATR captain and I were invited to join VNA. Is there any VNA's ATR pilot in here or others VNA's pilot that could tells me some infos about being an ATR pilot in Vietnam? Thanks a lot!!


My friend, stay away. They will nationalize the company only for locals, or expat with no experience who are paying 100.000 USD for the training here. If u don't fly A350 or 787, stay away, there is not future for expat in this company, doesn't matter what the agencies are saying, they need only TRE, TRI and LTC to train the 200 local cadets plus the 150 rich expat cadets paying 100.000 usd for the training.

After no more than 3 years, all expat will be fired, including the Captains and TRE, TRI and LTC joining now. If you don't have more options, ok, but i recomend you to find something better... This is not worthy. They are firing now all senior FO's in the middle in the contract, next will be the Captains, when the actual local FO's flying already become Captains, and when the 200 local cadets are released, covering the empty space of those locals FO's who were upgraded. The ATR will be flying VNA maybe one more year... I have been told in the office today, for a very very good local friend, so i am looking for another options right now. Good luck guys!!

[MD83FO]

Would anyone recommend JSP over VNA?
I'd appreciate is someone can send me a typical roster.
Thanks.

[box]

CPR, why don't you join Emirates:E

[CPR]

I don't think a full time contract is for me with minimum days off between flights. I'm looking for some quality time off whilst based in warmer climes.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[pezetaroi]

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen.

I'm currently seeking employment on the A320/1 fleet based in HAN.
Any info would be greatly appreciated on the feasibility of commuting between HAN and SYD/MEL. Direct flights? Stby travel and likelihood of upgrades? What is VNA policy on using crew jumps seats?

Many thanks in anticipation.

Looking for an upgrade in VNA? lol := Head to Jetstar, mate...

[VietJetPilot]

Well; my 50 cents here since I've seen almost everyone complaint but not really bring up the facts. Let me see if I can shed some details on why so many have negative responses at the moment:

Let bring one fact to the discussion: as an Expatriate, being an FO, a Captain, TRI, TRE or GOD, in Vietnam Airlines, as in any other Airline in Vietnam and most of SE Asia, you DO NOT work for Vietnam Airlines; you work for an intermediate company, a Broker, who sells out your skills, experience and expertise! It is of the utmost importance to understand that you are but NOTHING ELSE than a Mercenary for the locals! Keep that in mind!

Now, this is Asia and any Asian led company hiring Expats will believe that this is THE BEST job offer out there in the world. You are, in their mind, obligated to feel thankful that they hired and welcomed you to their amazing country, though most Expats will say "how the hell did I end up in this ****-hole?".
If you are unable or unwilling to adapt to what I, a westerner, in my year and a half here observed as a suppressive and fear oriented work culture, then don't even dream to apply here. You can do everything right and since you are the expendable Expat, YOU will take the blame, YOU will get fired and YOU will pay any damages! Locals will lie through their teeth to cover their asses, not including the hypocrisy of this entire entity. Here you have NO rights as you are in THEIR socialist country, not even the right to defend yourself if you are blamed for any event. And guess what else: NO Broker Company will stand up and defend you as they do not wish to upset their so fragile asian customer relationship by loosing face, which is the managers of the Airlines.
This kind of mid-evil, outdated and, for westerners incomprehensible, form of management is still strongly rooted into the "culture" of any company directed by Vietnamese or, as a matter of fact, almost any Asian managers. They are "born" into this corrupt system and environment and I don't see any tendency that this will improve in this century.
Another interesting factor is that even though Asian companies, even VNA, a state-owned socialist enterprise, want results and efficiency levels as high as European or American companies, most are neither willing to invest nor make the western type of effort to get to that level. Instead, in the traditional Asian way, problems are usually ignored until they disappear by themselves! VNA is no exception!
But lets take a closer look at what VNA promises and what it has to offer, so to say the "pro's and con's":

Attractive Renumeration Package:
no, not really, unless you work full time, that being an exhausting 10-1 schedule; but, until recently, the entire Expat A321 fleet was forced to a 6-3 scheme, dozens of pilots already resigned as QR and HK Air smelled blood in the waters and came to Vietnam to recruit. Surprisingly, management regretted that peanut saving decision and offered veteran pilots to return to their normal roster.
Also, you will be made believe that you will have a great chance to earn extra for every hour over 160 bi-monthly. Until today I have never exceeded that on an 6-3 schedule, and what I heard, you never will, even working full time here.
Another note here: VNA scheduling will NEVER be responsible for your schedule. Its up to YOU to stay legal! Good luck with that!

Great benefits package:
Well, medical insurance varies as it depends on your Broker; but when it comes to Stby Tickets, VNA made sure to complicate the hell out of the process so you will just don't WANT to use that benefit. I personally was bumped on "guaranteed" home tickets a few times as their logic is "you are just an Expat".
Forget ZED or Interline; they will never get those, not even for their own pilots as they would never know how to use them, anyways.

Possibility of upgrade and career advancement:
yeah, sure; and I also belive in Santa Claus; you might want to try getting on a wide body for US$60 grand and 4-6 months of no pay, but only if you pass a ridiculous humiliating interview with management which is nothing but bias for Expats; but hey, there will always be some suckers who will starve to death to do that; rumors were also floated that some "intimate favors" were the way to get ahead as a female FO to be considered for upgrades, but there is no proof of that, of course.
But as an Expat FO, don't hold your breath for your command here, you will be very disappointed!

Great working pattern:
yeah, especially the A321 Fleet could sing a song and cry a river about how, without warning, the ****-ups of upper management is costing them a lot of money. Suddenly now you can go back to your previous roster after already making adjustments to your life style upon receiving the bad news, like you perhaps already pulled your kids out of the school or so.

Great work environment:
well, that depends with whom you fly with, and where they are based; the locals bitch about all of the expats, more the guys from up north than from SGN, but most complaints are actually about our Russian counterparts. In general though, the work ambience in VNA has always been toxic, from what I heard, but I think things are on a steep descend and almost spiraling downward. Management does not offer any kind of promises, neither do the brokers. Last month 30+ First Officers were surprised to receive their release notice from VNA, even though there are 140+ "cadet pilots" lined up to join the airline; definition of hypocrisy?

Efficient Safety Management System
Not really! As mentioned previously, the general work culture is one of fear motivated to avoid punishment and being publicly embarrassed. Monthly "Safety meetings" are held to "shame and blame" Expats, very few locals get burned in those as they have their own, secret meetings; only when the "sacrificial offer", the gift, to the Safety Manager and boss was too low or the event too public to cover up, local pilot get roasted.
It sometimes stuns me how much this airline must loose each day for inadequately trained pilots carrying excessive extra fuel; but as it turns out, in the past, management tried to put an end to that by publishing a list of the "worst extra fuel pilots". So, pilots stopped doing that. Turns out that it provoked a huge wave of flights alternating due to ATC delays and weather at destination. Again, management stopped their penny pinching tendencies and things got better.

Living with the "asian culture", in my personal opinion, as a Westerner or Australian, is a challenge itself. Again, everything is a party when things go as planned, but sooner or later things will go sideways and any one of the locals, that being a pilot, manager, dispatcher or air traffic controller, will sell his grandma to keep face.
Also, there is a profound understanding that lying to an Expats face seems to be allowed and is not frowned upon when it serves a purpose for the Asian; thats how so many North and Central American Expats signed on as VNA was supposed to operate to the US since December 2015. I wonder when management will understand that it is exactly THAT cultural problem that will get any US Operations Certificate revoked shortly after it's been issued, if ever!
You are a visitor in SE Asia, so you will be expected to behave like one, adapt, and when its time to go, leave. I'd have a plan before that time comes.
The choice is yours
Good luck

[Sunliner81]

Regarding the above post, here is my 50 cents on that:

I never felt like a mercenary.

I never felt obligated to be thankful for the job.

I never described Vietnam as a sh*thole. My expat friends never described Vietnam as a sh*thole. The major thing that seemed to be a discussion point was the pollution in Hanoi.

I didn't feel that the working culture was suppressive, however I did notice a fear culture amongst a significant proportion of local pilots who, on occasion, appeared to operate to the FOQA limits instead of to the SOP. I tried my best to alleviate this practice on my flights.

Most of the expats that I know of who were involved in safety incidents were not fired. I never heard of a local pilot being fired, but they were certainly demoted.

I have never heard of any pilot paying for aircraft/equipment damage. I did hear of local and expat pilots losing salary (per day) whilst being suspended due to pending investigation of serious safety events. However, I think this is in the contract (something about not being able to be rostered for duty during your on rotation).

I do believe some but not all locals will lie to save his a*s as opposed to yours. I did not experience this, nor did any of my expat friends.

You do have the right to defend yourself in the event of a safety event. Many have and were not fired.

Regarding the role of the agency in defending you when need a helping hand, you are probably correct, but I never required such help. You can only expect the agency to do what is in the contract, and nothing more. This is the viewpoint I took when I started the contract. Take this, have a backup plan and you won't be disappointed. I had no issues with my agency, in fact they were great to work for.

I have flown with various other operators, in other cultures, and the view you give of management is generally the same everywhere. However, I had no issues with management.

I share your view of the political and social culture, but this never bothered me or affected my ability to do my job, get paid for it and enjoy myself in Vietnam. I suggest you get laid more :ok:

I previously worked in what most would view as a 'higher overall reward package' airline, but I can tell you after taking into account the amount of vacation you get in VN and the cost of living, I was better off at VN. Yes the money isn't the same as China, but you have a choice and I made a choice not to pursue China, as I felt (and subsequently experienced) what appeared to be much less headache during application, screening, training, line operations and simulator.

The exhausting 10/1 schedule is by choice and is not much different to most full-time A320 operations that I have experienced. The actual daily duties at VN were by far the easiest/least tiring duties I have experienced in my career.

Your statement regarding the force to 6/3 is true, but what most should have done (i.e. the smart thing to do) was to just sit tight and let them realise that they cannot crew the aircraft by making the Captains reduce their roster (this took me about 1 hour to calculate and come to such a conclusion, also based on other expats' advice that VN will revert this instruction in about 1 month's time, based on precedence).

I was never made to believe that I would earn overtime on a 6/3 roster. In fact I averaged < 40 hours per month on this pattern. If one wants overtime, then one should choose a higher pattern.

You are correct, you will never work full time here. That is why most pilots choose this contract!

Yes crewing on occasion tried to get me to fly illegaly, (happened in every airline I have ever flown with), but this was generally after a roster disruption - i.e, I was never rostered illegally. I simply denied their request with my reasons and I never received management backlash.

I was hospitalised whilst in Vietnam, and my insurance paid back every dollar.

I never used a standby ticket. When I wanted to travel within Vietnam/SE Asia, I just bought the cheapest full fare ticket I could find (with the salary and the cost of living, this is not an issue).

I was never bumped off a confirmed ticket to/from home. In fact I always managed to get the Business Class upgrade as promised. If indeed you did get bumped off, then this is an issue you can take up with the agency as it is a breach of contract. Actually this happens in many of the other expat airlines around the world, so it is nothing new. Over-bookings happen, its a fact of life. However, it never did for me.

ZED fare for expat contract pilots? This is not in the contract anywhere, so no need to expect it.

Career upgrade? Enter as an A321 Captain and you don't need anything nor should expect anything else. Its a contract job! If you want career progression, go the Middle East, but be prepared for the flak that comes with that, or better yet, get with the legacy airline of your home country (if you can).

Yes the upgrade interview for expat FOs seemed to be biased and pre-planned to have them fail. However, I believe that VN wast not impressed by the attitude and competency of some of these FOs, and unfortunately, on some occasions I understood their point of view. All of them however were much more competent than the most of the local FOs. Anyway, enter an Asian contract as an FO and you expect an upgrade? :confused:

Your statement about the company reversing their decision regarding the roster reduction is somewhat true, but it is not the entire story. The story I got was that new upper management wanted to reduce costs and implemented this order without seeking approval from the roster department. Hence the roster department advised that a reduction was not possible, and then upper management withdrew their order.

Yes it is true that the locals have a b*tch session about the expats, but then again we (including myself) are guilty of the exact same thing at times. It is nothing new and happens in all expat/contract jobs. This is natural.

Your statement about our Russian counterparts I feel is unfair. There are some really nice young Russian Captains who are on the same wavelength as me regarding SOP, CRM and overall Airbus knowledge. And they are a pleasure to have a beer with.

It is true that crew interaction between pilots and cabin crew is almost non-existent in HAN, but better in SGN. But there is plenty of interaction from locals outside the airline, so its not an issue for most.

Regarding flying with local pilots - only one CRM issue I had and I dealt with it after landing and the issue didn't go past this point. 95% of local pilots are respectful and courteous to fly with.

Yes it is true that 30+ expat FOs are being made redundant and are being replaced by P2F expat cadets. Why would the airline not take advantage of this? Perfect business sense for them. I don't agree with it, but like I said before, entering the contract world as an FO in Asia always carries significant risk.

The monthly name and shame meetings is true. Quite an eye opener really :eek: But it wasn't just the expacts getting the shaming - more the local pilots, and it seemed like it was always the new young local Captains doing most of the stuff-ups. It wouldn't surprise me however if a 'gift' was used as a get out of jail free card, but this is Asia, and it is their train-set. Just don't stuff up, operate to SOP, promote good CRM, don't cut corners and you shouldn't have to be at one of those safety meetings. If it is pure bad luck that you are, then you have the chance to explain yourself.

I agree that fuel uplift is out of control here. Yes I did see the list of 'heavy fuel uplifters' but that did stop being published many years ago. Guys divert because they don't TAKE ENOUGH fuel when the weather is bad or unpredictable. It is a good thing that the management don't bug you on your uplift, but this doesn't mean you have to uplight extra fuel just because you have a free ticket to do so. The weather, infrastructure and fuel policy in VN is no different to what I have been used to, so my personal uplift policy did not change just to fit into the VN culture. I was told I was one of only about 2 expats that regularly took CFP fuel into HAN during the winter. In my experience, the weather never really called for it in winter, and neither did any NOTAM / FON regarding traffic etc. Overall, 0 diversions and 0 min fuel calls. Sensible uplifts based on sensible decisions.

I have lived as an expat in 3 different cultures, and living in Vietnam was definitely NOT A CHALLENGE.

[Ruzki]

Yes the upgrade interview for expat FOs seemed to be biased and pre-planned to have them fail. However, I believe that VN wast not impressed by the attitude and competency of some of these FOs, and unfortunately, on some occasions I understood their point of view. All of them however were much more competent

For your information all those FO are alredy been employed elsewhere , most of them as a direct entry captains, maybe in Airlines than you can only dream off. IV flown with all of them, those guys they where constantly called to fly with some captains considered " at risk"..

Attitude? When someone ask you the diameter of the cable that connect the fuel truck to the plane... which kind of attitude you must have? Smile?

Duty time one of the lowest you have ever experienced ? Where have you been flying before? Nigeria ? Iran?

80hrs 198 duty In March

[ia1166]

sunlier.....FIGJAM. is that you? are you back?

[Sunliner81]

For your information all those FO are alredy been employed elsewhere , most of them as a direct entry captains, maybe in Airlines than you can only dream off.

Curious to know which airlines these are? I know that Whizz Air are taking FOs as DECs, but I would hardly call that a 'dream' airline.

IV flown with all of them, those guys they where constantly called to fly with some captains considered " at risk"..


I have to call BS on that one. If there are Captains who are identified 'at risk' and require special pairing with only expat FOs, this would be a logistical nightmare for the rostering department. I hope you are not getting confused with a new Captain unable to be paired with a new FO and hence a non-new FO has to be called out at last minute to replace the new FO. I can see how fact can quickly turn into fiction here. My post was to give the fact based on personal experience, as I felt that the post above mine was a little 'bitter' and the truth somewhat distorted.

The fact is, that the VN management believe that experienced FOs are not needed and are too expensive, and the current expat and local Captains are good enough to fly with local and expat Cadets. It makes no sense in THEIR minds to pay an FO 3 x the salary of a local FO. I WISH they retained the expat FOs and gave them upgrades, but it makes no financial sense for them to do this if THEY THINK that their experience is not needed.

Attitude? When someone ask you the diameter of the cable that connect the fuel truck to the plane... which kind of attitude you must have? Smile?


Yes I agree with you, as in my post I said that the interview is setup for them to fail by asking ridiculous questions such as that. Don't get me wrong, 95% of the expat FOs I think DESERVE to have been given the upgrade, its just that a small FEW (read 1 or 2) think its their RIGHT to be given an upgrade just because they have X thousand hours in their logbook, when in fact an command upgrade is a PRIVILEGE. If your going to be given an upgrade over a local, and be subsequently paid 3 x higher, then you need to be much better than the standard FO, otherwise it makes no financial sense for management to upgrade you. Sad truth really, and this is something that the agencies will not tell you.

Duty time one of the lowest you have ever experienced ? Where have you been flying before? Nigeria ? Iran?

80hrs 198 duty In March

I never get that amount of duty time per month, on average 2-3 positioning per month, mostly of 1 hour flight duration.

[VietJetPilot]

Thanks for you “enlightening” commentary up there, Sunliner; almost had me a good laugh here; and you saying you had “no problem” with the Vietnamese Culture in the Aviation business for me only means you were either legless all the time, as lazy or even as incompetent as the majority of them; either way, you must have flown in VNA a long time ago or you’re not familiar at all with the Workhorse (A321) Fleet. But, good for you, makes me feel resentful, almost! I have to deal with those apathetic, benighted, insolent primates on a daily basis...

So, sketchy rumors are coming out day by day about an event that supposedly occurred last month up North in Ha Noi involving a very capable Russian Captain and an imbecile local FO; turns out that following VNA SOP, as much as management and Instructors say will protect you always, actually does not. And why is this not mentioned in the monthly safety briefing? Is it that much of an embarrassment to the locals?

So, mentioned Russian Captain, Pilot Flying, with Local (Vietnamese) FO who does as SOP dictates, “the walk around”; plane takes off and ends up returning to departure Airport because incompetent FO did not see that the Static Ports were still covered up. Personally I don’t think he went to do the walk around, he went for a smoke somewhere. And it doesn’t end there…

CAAV comes in, and hand in hand with VNA, instead of praising the Captain for brining a broken bird back in one piece (experts here know how many Jets crashed due to Static Ports blocked) they actually SUSPEND the Fella! For two months! Congrats!

In ANY other company he would have gotten a medal; not here! Here that gets you 2 months unpaid leave!

That was at the beginning of April; its almost the end of May, and managers are still debating what in their miraculous SOP’s they should change to make flying at VNA safer; well, if one of you Management Turds is reading this, I highly recommend taking some of the inputs from Expatriats serious! Some of us actually got quite a bit of experience in this **** but as you’re either too proud to admit your own failures or too busy covering up all the daily crap of your incompetent local pilots; that must take quite a lot of time away from developing no-nonsense and common-sense SOP’s for your fleets! This kind of incompetent managerial behavior only leads to utter lack of credibility in your abilities from your peers, that is if there is actually any at all there anymore! Bloody hell, you would actually kill people and STILL believe VNA is a safe, competent and coordinated airline.

Once again, if you are employed, go somewhere better; if you have no other choice, I’d recommend anyone but this outfit!

Good luck!

[ia1166]

Thanks for you “enlightening” commentary up there, Sunliner; almost had me a good laugh here; and you saying you had “no problem” with the Vietnamese Culture in the Aviation business for me only means you were either legless all the time, as lazy or even as incompetent as the majority of them; either way, you must have flown in VNA a long time ago or you’re not familiar at all with the Workhorse (A321) Fleet. But, good for you, makes me feel resentful, almost! I have to deal with those apathetic, benighted, insolent primates on a daily basis...

So, sketchy rumors are coming out day by day about an event that supposedly occurred last month up North in Ha Noi involving a very capable Russian Captain and an imbecile local FO; turns out that following VNA SOP, as much as management and Instructors say will protect you always, actually does not. And why is this not mentioned in the monthly safety briefing? Is it that much of an embarrassment to the locals?

So, mentioned Russian Captain, Pilot Flying, with Local (Vietnamese) FO who does as SOP dictates, “the walk around”; plane takes off and ends up returning to departure Airport because incompetent FO did not see that the Static Ports were still covered up. Personally I don’t think he went to do the walk around, he went for a smoke somewhere. And it doesn’t end there…

CAAV comes in, and hand in hand with VNA, instead of praising the Captain for brining a broken bird back in one piece (experts here know how many Jets crashed due to Static Ports blocked) they actually SUSPEND the Fella! For two months! Congrats!

In ANY other company he would have gotten a medal; not here! Here that gets you 2 months unpaid leave!

That was at the beginning of April; its almost the end of May, and managers are still debating what in their miraculous SOP’s they should change to make flying at VNA safer; well, if one of you Management Turds is reading this, I highly recommend taking some of the inputs from Expatriats serious! Some of us actually got quite a bit of experience in this **** but as you’re either too proud to admit your own failures or too busy covering up all the daily crap of your incompetent local pilots; that must take quite a lot of time away from developing no-nonsense and common-sense SOP’s for your fleets! This kind of incompetent managerial behavior only leads to utter lack of credibility in your abilities from your peers, that is if there is actually any at all there anymore! Bloody hell, you would actually kill people and STILL believe VNA is a safe, competent and coordinated airline.

Once again, if you are employed, go somewhere better; if you have no other choice, I’d recommend anyone but this outfit!

Good luck!

Actually the sop says the PIC should do an exterior check if required. Subsequently the PF should check pins and covers. And finally the CM1 responds to the gear pins and covers in the before start check list. All this is not new, its been in the SOP for ages. So an exterior check is required by PIC if the covers have been on, to be able to respond correctly to the before start check list. PF or PM regardless.

So if you arrive at the aircraft for its first flight, technically speaking the Captain should check the covers are removed, as he has to check in the cockpit prep if PF and respond to the checklist as CM1. He is responsible for the covers. Not the rest of the walkaround, as has been upheld by VNA when subsequent issues have come up.

Also the Captain is responsible at all times, hence the title.

Anyway sounds like you are just trying to stir up trouble. Its actually grounds for dismissal. I cant see any benefit to be gained by so much slander.

[ia1166]

While i am about it, please enlighten me to

1 how many jets have crashed with a static port covered? I cant recall any. Pitot maybe. 1 static port, whilst not being ideal, is certainly not life threatening.

2 what medal would any other airline award a pilot for such actions? I dont know of any such medals being awarded to civil pilots, or military.

Your e mail is pretty offensive. I have my doubts that you are who you say.

[The Dominican]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4f8MgqChHrU

[Kodiak hunter]

Dear IA1166
SOP FCOM PRO-NOR-SOP04 P9/10 states
GEAR PINS AND COVERS ....CHECK ONBOARD AND STOWED / Check that three are on board and stowed.
Three - that's for nose, and 2 mailn gears. If that would presume checking static anp pitot covers the number of items would be different.
VNA SOP does not have anything on the matter so we follow FCOM right?

VNA SOP p209
If PIC is PF, when time permits, PIC shall undertake additional outside check if needed.
So basically I don't see any need for extra check if everuthing is normal. Yes if F/O reports something abnormal. But F/O didn't report abnormalities in that incident?

Yes the Captain is responsible for everything. But that is based on the assumption that other specialists handling the flight are competent and responsible.
If neither F/O doesn't see covered static, nor mechanic, why do you blame Cpt?
Or you suggest to act on the assumption that all specialists around are complete idiots?

If by CAAV Air reg walk around is mandatory for Capt, and by SOP not - it's a fault of the SOP.
If VNA issues a notice asking not to use/look at mobile phones during walkaround, it's a fault of the airline.
If you say local pilots accurately follow SOP... LOL

Too much emotions on the forum.
I just don't like when the facts are distorted.

[Bus Junkie]

You could enlighten us as to how your parking issue is going.


While i am about it, please enlighten me to

1 how many jets have crashed with a static port covered? I cant recall any. Pitot maybe. 1 static port, whilst not being ideal, is certainly not life threatening.

2 what medal would any other airline award a pilot for such actions? I dont know of any such medals being awarded to civil pilots, or military.

Your e mail is pretty offensive. I have my doubts that you are who you say.

[VietJetPilot]

Anyway sounds like you are just trying to stir up trouble. Its actually grounds for dismissal. I cant see any benefit to be gained by so much slander.

IA1166
I see that, unlike me, you've been pretty active on pprune for a while, thats great! :ok:
Slander might be a little far fetched, but yeah, blowing off steam and venting disappointing facts, you got me; guilty as charged!

But one thing you might not be completely aware of, pprune is actually a place where people, unlike in our labor-culture-divergence-paradime, CAN voice their opinions without the fear of threat or retaliation. So, if you are sensitive enough to actually feel offended, well, I must have hit a nerve then... oh well... :*

I believe this thread is for outside pilots who are thinking hard about career and life changes, and my opinion is actually just about THAT.
Also, no need to threaten me with "dismissal" (yes, that is what VNA is really good at, right? All threats, no improvements; long live socialism!) besides being fairly anonimous here, I also use several VPNs, so good luck. AND, yes, I already turned in my resignation a few weeks ago, so you can get your blood pressure under control again; sure :O you can go ahead and wish me the best and tell everyone how much you will miss me...

:E

Kodiak got my drift though; thanks! So, in your opinion, it was "only" the Static Port!! Great, but did you actually ask yourself "what will it be next time", perhaps? But, please admit at least, that VNA does not have a preventative safety management system or even a safety oriented culture. Its operating philosophy is that of threats and punishment, and as far as I was made aware of a few weeks ago, making elaborated safety reports and recommendations are actually frowned upon (perhaps it makes them feel inferior, or something, I don't know). But fact is, locals are treated a LOT different in this airline than Expatriates, or do you deny that, too? I suggest you should stop by one of those very entertaining safety meetings one day, which I am sure you already have... you would you like to comment on one of those, perhaps?
By the way, are you aware a Level 3 event for an Expat is also a "dismissible" offense (not just slandering on Pprune :} ) while the local pilot pays around US$300 to make it "go away"? A very nice Vietnamese Captain actually confirmed that to me (don't expect me to name him here!).

Now, I'm not sure what Bus Junkie was asking about the parking issue, but... 🤔

Oh, and one more thing: "giving someone a medal" is a metaphor; a figure of speech; an analogy, its origin being from the philosophy of rhetoric. Its like giving someone a "high five"; a pat on the back, a "thumbs up"; a "good job, mate"; I'd suggest a little Shakespeare to lighten up the day, perhaps?
But I'm not here to provide you with English lessons; you seem to manage that on your own pretty well.

So, purely as a rhetorical question to you, IA, why do you really feel offended?

[EagleA25]

Guys
Just ignore that person; obviously anything you say will be turned agains you; some people can not be helped, they just want to see the world burn!

[youwantmetodowhat]

Can anyone confirm that a local VNA captain was suspended for throwing a drunk pax off a flight? Allegedly, he was advised by cabin crew that he stank of alcohol and needed to be helped up the stairs. This drunk pax just happened to be some mate of a mate in upper management!

Apparently, he was told by management that he didn't know his role as a captain whilst the doors were open. This can't be true?!? Sounds like he was just doing his job as a captain because ground staff didn't do theirs.

If true, who would want to work under such conditions when management won't back a Captain for looking after the crew and remaining pax on a flight.

Surely this can't be true?

[EagleA25]

I heard the same from a local FO that it is true, and the Captain is already back on the line after 2 weeks of unpaid vacations.
Apparently there is more to the story; ground staff and Cabin Crew did not want to deboard the PAX and so the Captain made the decision on his own.
It is right though, the FOM does mention the moment responsibility is transferred to the Pilots at the moment the doors are closed. Thats why you see them bail almost instantly upon arrival 😆
But there must be a moral of the story if something happens...

[VietJetPilot]

So, IA1166, Cat at your tongue? (fingers in this case, I guess)
Can't mount a defense in a hurry? I gave you sufficient time, or not?
Is it dawning on you that management in this outfit is actually demonstrating all symptoms of utter incompetence as their internal lazy, socialistic and absolutely corrupt work culture actually inhibit its own growth?

I actually have a feeling that you might be one of the management pilot yourself, or are you not? Otherwise I would not understand why you'd be offended by the truth and feel that threatening me with "dismissal" would solve your problem here; instead you'd just agree that there is actually a fundamental flaw between Vietnamese management ethics and Aviation business customs in this company! Guess what, those kinds of flaws in the past are actually responsible for fatal accidents...

Here a small (of course unofficial) update on how Vietnam Airlines has been doing last month:

As expected, VNA and the CAAV have failed the FAA Safety and Policy Audit.

That's, what? The sixth year in a row? Oh, but what a surprise, right? Won't be flying to America any time soon, huh?

Turns out that the little remark on the license saying "Vietnam Airlines Only" is actually the one thing the FAA will NEVER accept and Vietnam Airlines NEVER let go of; mind you, VNA will loose half of its local, starving Pilot pool if that restriction were to be removed!

But: Its almost tragic to think that VNA seriously thought that buying new 787's from Boeing and a few Simulators from California would actually "secure" them their Operations Certificate to the US.

Vietnam Airlines: keep dreaming of new sources for your internal smuggling operation. Good job FAA!

So, I'm waiting IA1166; anything you have to say? I'm still waiting for your response of my previous post...

And you Eagle25: shining some sun up you *** does not cover the truth that in a normal, competitive business environment, this one would have gone belly up the day after it was deregulated... Enjoy...

[ZFT]

So, IA1166, Cat at your tongue? (fingers in this case, I guess)
Can't mount a defense in a hurry? I gave you sufficient time, or not?
Is it dawning on you that management in this outfit is actually demonstrating all symptoms of utter incompetence as their internal lazy, socialistic and absolutely corrupt work culture actually inhibit its own growth?

I actually have a feeling that you might be one of the management pilot yourself, or are you not? Otherwise I would not understand why you'd be offended by the truth and feel that threatening me with "dismissal" would solve your problem here; instead you'd just agree that there is actually a fundamental flaw between Vietnamese management ethics and Aviation business customs in this company! Guess what, those kinds of flaws in the past are actually responsible for fatal accidents...

Here a small (of course unofficial) update on how Vietnam Airlines has been doing last month:

As expected, VNA and the CAAV have failed the FAA Safety and Policy Audit.

That's, what? The sixth year in a row? Oh, but what a surprise, right? Won't be flying to America any time soon, huh?

Turns out that the little remark on the license saying "Vietnam Airlines Only" is actually the one thing the FAA will NEVER accept and Vietnam Airlines NEVER let go of; mind you, VNA will loose half of its local, starving Pilot pool if that restriction were to be removed!

But: Its almost tragic to think that VNA seriously thought that buying new 787's from Boeing and a few Simulators from California would actually "secure" them their Operations Certificate to the US.

Vietnam Airlines: keep dreaming of new sources for your internal smuggling operation. Good job FAA!

So, I'm waiting IA1166; anything you have to say? I'm still waiting for your response of my previous post...

And you Eagle25: shining some sun up you *** does not cover the truth that in a normal, competitive business environment, this one would have gone belly up the day after it was deregulated... Enjoy...

Where do you buy sims in California?

[ia1166]

Gear pins and covers.

Sorry but in my world that means gear pins..... And covers. Static and pitot. Which are stored in the avionics bay so a visual check of removal is required, thus requiring a check by cm1 on the first flight of day.

Incidentally the new sop has this check done by cm2. So on the first flight of the day captains need to do a walk around, but the cm2 is required to check these are removed befor flight.

And just as an extra, the captain cannot do a walkaround until refuelling complete and bowser has unplugged. If you need clarification read the fcom.

I am not management, but i can read.

The new sop requires a cm2 check outside on first flight, and a captain walkaround after refuelling.

Oh and just to clarify, the before start checklist. It is a confirmation by cm1 of gear pins and covers.. That is COVERS gents, not sleeves, not pins. Its covers. Static and pitot...removed.

Captains.. It is always your responsibility. Always

Read and inwardly digest my old instructors used to say.

[ia1166]

Actually the only pin is the nose gear. The mains are sleeves.

Anyway, you are just ranting.

Rage against the dying of the light.
Do not go gentle into that good night.

[ia1166]

Kodiak hunter,

Bears? I hunt sambar and red deer myself. 30-06 all the way.

Gear pins and covers..removed and stowed. No mention of 3.

Actually gear pins and covers means 1 pin, 2 sleeves, 3 pitot and 3 static covers. Pins and sleeves in the cockpit, covers.. COVERS..are stowed in the avionics bay.

So you need to check removal. Any missing covers are recorded in the defects part of the tech log.

So a outside check required

QED

[EagleA25]

IA1166; Kodiac Hunter;
Personally I prefer fishing over hunting, especially Trout; but would love to try Salmon fishing in Alaska one day.
I used to shoot the 7.62x51 in my days in the military; I loved my bolt action L96! Amazing piece of surgical precision! The 30-08 is the same catridge and projectile, right?
I'm on vacations in S. America right now and tried to download the latest update; it is HUGE, like 1.6GB; and it says it will take me 1.5 days; better get that done when I'm back; any other significant changes in the SOP?

[ia1166]

I would have to check ,y reloading manuals on that one. 7.62 nato is 308 winchester. 30-06 springfield is the standard US army round from ww2 up until the introduction of the m16, which uses the now more common 5.56 nato, or 223 in the civilian world.

If you were serving in the US a long time ago maybe, but if in Nato it would have been the 308. Same calibre but a bigger cartridge on the 06. Good for bear and moose, not so good for trout.

[ia1166]

The entire cockpit prep has moved to cm2. From gear pins and covers all the way down. Fmgc, top panel, the lot.
Cabin comm check before cabin briefing.
Mandatory items for cabin briefing, and a change to wording of paswords.

[ia1166]

Can anyone confirm that a local VNA captain was suspended for throwing a drunk pax off a flight? Allegedly, he was advised by cabin crew that he stank of alcohol and needed to be helped up the stairs. This drunk pax just happened to be some mate of a mate in upper management!

Apparently, he was told by management that he didn't know his role as a captain whilst the doors were open. This can't be true?!? Sounds like he was just doing his job as a captain because ground staff didn't do theirs.

If true, who would want to work under such conditions when management won't back a Captain for looking after the crew and remaining pax on a flight.

Surely this can't be true?

Its not the captains job to do this. Its the ground staff.

As always you need to know what ypu can and cannot do....

Much like the walkaround i dare say.

[EagleA25]

I would have to check ,y reloading manuals on that one. 7.62 nato is 308 winchester. 30-06 springfield is the standard US army round from ww2 up until the introduction of the m16, which uses the now more common 5.56 nato, or 223 in the civilian world.

If you were serving in the US a long time ago maybe, but if in Nato it would have been the 308. Same calibre but a bigger cartridge on the 06. Good for bear and moose, not so good for trout.
Precisely, I was with the German Air Force. I remember the 7.62x51 being the .308 but wasn't sure that the .30-06 was the Springfield Caliber, my bet.
Yeah, they used to pack quite a punch but were also heavier and the standard clip would not hold as many rounds. I do get to practice some Long Range shooting here once in a while. My old man hates it when I come along with him to the outdoor range and unpack my old ballistics tables and 80's Casio calculator infront of his buddies. They all go by feel and I usually bull on the Cold Barrel Shot at 1200 meters.
Thanks for the heads up in the SOP changes. I'm not able to download the updates from home on vacation, the download rate is snail speed. So, if CM2 is doing overhead now, I'd strongly recommend CM1 still checks the battery chergers. I've seen a few of them skip that part when it is their part to do.
So the Cabin Com-Check is still done? I always though it to be a necessary hassle as even the cabin crew themselvs seem to dislike that check.

[V1RotateGearUp]

The entire cockpit prep has moved to cm2. From gear pins and covers all the way down. Fmgc, top panel, the lot.
Cabin comm check before cabin briefing.
Mandatory items for cabin briefing, and a change to wording of paswords.

Hi there! Care to share where in the manual it states that the cockpit prep moved to CM2? All I have is from the SOP that the external walk around check from 2.1.3.1 moved to CM1.... though in the QRH it still lists it as the PM's duty:8 Thanks.

[V1RotateGearUp]

Got it! SOP Task sharing. Should've looked harder before posting the question (:

[kimono1950]

Looks like VNA is going to upgrade ( once again ) to A-321 PIC, the A-330 FOs.

I do not know what is going on on this airlines.:confused:

[MD83FO]

Hello, FCI is offering captain screenings at VNA any one aware of it, other agencies are only offering JSP.

[Yesse]

Hi I saw the news that Vietnam Airlines is laying off expats, I was encouraged to apply but I am not sure anymore. Is it true? I mean how many candidates can you lay off?

Very sure my friend. The plan of the airline is to fly the A321 fleet with only vietnamese pilots. They are recruiting more than 200 local cadets now, and will be released shortly, so these cadets will push for the upgrade to Captains to the actual vietnamese FO's, and these new local Captains, at the same time, will push out of the company to all expat Captains flying now in the A321 fleet. They just need 60 days to advise the expat pilot to be fired, same as they did already with all A321 Senior First Officers. They need the instuctors now to train all these new vietnamese cadets, but when they are released... Good bye instructors, Captains, etc... Vietnam Airlines is not a good place for expat pilots anymore. This is the truth, i have been flying here for more than 10 years, and i have a very good local friend working in the Company, he told me..." Start looking for other place as soon as you can, the plan of the company could start tomorrow or next year, but for sure they will do it ". Now you can do what you want, but as a pilot, i need to advise to all my colleagues that this airline is not recommended for expats anymore. Good luck

[kimono1950]

All the foreigners FOs , except a few suckers, will be fired ( furloughed ) before the end of year. In 2018 it will be the Cpts, like this, VN will be a full vietnamese airlines.

The agencies are hiding, not answering mails or call phones. Not protecting their pilots for years,it is, now, their turn to be fired by VN.

Soon ,VN will be a 4th grade airlines, with all a bunch of incompetent monkeys .

[ia1166]

Rishworth recruiting minibus captains

Go figure. Who knows what the future is but at the moment food on plate, family happy.

Anyone here who feels they can second guess management?

[ia1166]

Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage against the dying of the light

Rage.

Another happy camper. Good Luck and when you start somewhere new, please dont keep attacking your previous employer. Its really bad form.

And a bit immature maybe.

[Yesse]

Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage against the dying of the light

Rage.

Another happy camper. Good Luck and when you start somewhere new, please dont keep attacking your previous employer. Its really bad form.

And a bit immature maybe.

Really? I am just warning my colleagues. But if you want to joing this company, you are welcome. When everything happens, i would live to see your comments. Good luck!!

[ia1166]

You signed a 5 year contract?

You are terminating it early under the clause provided in that contract?

It works both ways.

I have been here 13 years. I am not looking for a new job, but will be watching the situation over the next few years and will move when i have to.

Its the contract world. Maybe you didnt read your contract.

[ia1166]

You are not warning anybody of anything actually.

You are posting rascist and inflammatory remarks, which is a sacking offence whereever you are, or intend to go.

[Ruzki]

Yesterday an a321 put the wheels out of the runway in danang... it is jus the beginning ,nothing to do with racism as the Cpt was expat and the FO is one of the Brand new FO that replaced the expat FO.
Open you eyes for f! Sake!
тщательный 😓😓

[Ruzki]

Btw inflammatory remarks... is that a new desease? Do we need take paracetamol for that ? Loolllzzzz

[wingdeagle]

Here are "two cents" from a guy, who spent many years working for VN: while it's sad to see many expats being let go, foreign pilots need to understand that they are only CONTRACTORS. That's right. There to fill seats till these seats can be covered by a local pilot. Every national airline has the right and should aim to "nationalize" it's airline, as this is much cheaper and we are in the business world. Will it effect their operation and drive the already low standards shown by newcomer pilots even lower ? Most certainly. But it's their airline and their decision to make. For years Vietnam Airlines has been a good to a great place for many expat pilots. They were pretty much the only airline to offer upgrade opportunities to F/Os, Captains could switch fleets or become instructors and examiners. Career opportunities were give to those, who were initially hired to fill a vacant seat. While many operational decisions were always questionable, the locals were always very kind to most of us, therefore insulting and calling them names is LOW CLASS ! You may not agree with their policies, philosophies and decisions, but again it's their airline and it's their right to decide which way they want to steer the ship (a direction I find highly questionable and it was one of my reasons to leave after many years). At one time VN had the monopoly flying domestic routes. With VJ in the mix and more competition from outside, VN is not the only option for passengers anymore. The economic pressure is there to save money and it's usually the contract pilots who are the first "casualties". And, if you are being let go with a 60 day notice, you are not being "fired". Your contract is clearly saying you can be let go with a certain timely notice. Am I concerned to where VN is heading ? Having left many friends (locals and expats) behind I am very concerned. Economically and yes operationally. Economically the airline is not prepared to face the wind of competition. Operationally I have seen standards from new First Officers go to a very concerning low point with not all but many simply being afraid to fly and make a mistake, always seeing the much dreaded "level" and the "safety debrief (public humiliation and loss of face)" in front of their eyes. Safe flying, guys. Stick together instead of spending time bashing the company and each other. With VN's current direction everyone may need to buckle up tight !

[Ruzki]

Yes i totally agree with u. Most of the local they are nice guys,but we are taking about safety here.
And yes more , we need to buckle up expcially when we are positioning , we never know who you have as a crew ...it's like a ... Russian roulette nowadays 😂😂😂😂

[kimono1950]

These morons are now advertising for Cpt/FO on the A350. What a joke ! Moreover, the clowns in SGN are calling back the A-321 FOs they fired 2 months ago.Of course, these FOs gave them the finger.

Between the the new local Cpts, the local cadets and the P2F, VN is heading to a catastrophic event ! I am just hoping not being in that plane !

[Ali Sadikin]

There you go. Monkeys who couldn't get the bananas they want wishing ill on others. Sigh!:=

[duyen]

Kimono is such an angry man. Must have been flying too many charters.

[kimono1950]

Am I telling any lie ? These morons are looking for Cpts on the ATR with transition to the Airbus fleet, they are looking for A-321 Cpts too ! On the meanwhile they have fired all the A-321 SFOs who where more than ready for command and they plan to do the same with the A-330 SFOs.
Tell me if these guys are not greedy monkeys, firing people, who are in VNA for years to take some guys, from more than suspect countries, and rich kids on P2F.

[duyen]

Kimono must be among those so called SFO who didn't get command because he failed the interview

[fatbus]

Mate give it a rest!

[pezetaroi]

Well it's official, the Captain that "took over" the controls late (from a low hour-freshly released FO) and prevented a major catastrophe has been terminated. Word of advise: don't risk your job and be the PF all of your sectors, especially with this kind of weather that we've had lately...

[Ruzki]

IV just heard the news today ..
But nooooo we are racist , but noooo the local are wonderful .... but nooooo we are contractors .
wtf!!! Wake up!!!
They guy just saved an a321!!!! And had been terminated !!!!Because his fo, son of , friend of , uncle of, with super perfcet air style wsnt able to keep a ******* center line!!!!!!!!!!
But nooooooo we are racists but noooo we are contractors....
kurvah my 2 cents

[wingdeagle]

IV just heard the news today ..
But nooooo we are racist , but noooo the local are wonderful .... but nooooo we are contractors .
wtf!!! Wake up!!!
They guy just saved an a321!!!! And had been terminated !!!!Because his fo, son of , friend of , uncle of, with super perfcet air style wsnt able to keep a ******* center line!!!!!!!!!!
But nooooooo we are racists but noooo we are contractors....
kurvah my 2 cents

Hi Ruzki, yes, you are a contractor or are you not ? The locals are nice, but not the ones making the decisions in this Flying Circus Wanna Be An Airline ! The majority of them are stuck in the system (you may know the word "system" ?).
Centerline control has been an issue for years ! How about crosswinds ? Did you ever have to help out with the rudder with a 7kt crosswind ? Cessna 150 limitation is 12, by the way. All this is nothing new. Re-read my post about the low standards.
Wake up ? I did and left ! Safety and the associated stress were my concern. You advise the current employees to wake up. I am sure most of them are awake, but what is your suggestion ? Another "October Revolution" ;-) ?
My suggestion is: all expats lay down your work and get the f..k out ! Now they can see how to run the Flying Circus since they know it all so much better !
Nice thought, but not so easy, right ? Expats who are settled there with families, children in schools, girlfriends and motobikes need to be paid for. Easy to tell them all to "wake up". How about you go to the fleet office and tell them that. I am sure they will appreciate it. Stay safe !

[Ruzki]

Alredy done.
Last 2 months in this flying circuss
Of today we all have been called from stby cos those great great and nice local don't dare to fly

[kimono1950]

No Viet can be fired, as simple as that ! These guys , one day soon , will kill people.

Some SFOs , more than ready for command, are showed the door, to allow, these local top guns to be on the left seat.

the circus will stop when VNA will write off an aircraft or will injured someone.


Ps Where did it happen ?

[bigbird]

That one was DAD i think. Latest grass cutting exercise 11L at HAN yesterday i believe.

[MD83FO]

Would VNA guys preffer to fly for JPA?

[EagleA25]

Guys; I deleted my last post as I was posting in a rumor only; but it seems it was not so much a rumor after all.
Some of my latin american coleagues confirmed to me and I was shown pictures of the Runway Excursion in Hanoi; it was a complete excursion of the right main wheel; the Da Nang excursion did apparently break a few runway lights after it was affected by a 27kt gust left crosswind (reported wind by TWR was wind veing variable with 3!), but returned to the center of the runway without leaving the paved surface; it still requires to be mentioned that it IS and foremost will always be a Captains responsability to decide who is in what function during a critical phase and what to do when things do not go as planned. The Expat Pilot is at fault for that oversight, NO matter the experience level of the First Officer. What I was explained by colleagues is that he IS accepting full responsability, something I admire of him! (Yes, perhaps a local pilot would not, but perhaps he would, we do not know...)
The Hanoi incident crew was reported to have been a local, to say full Vietnamese crew, and the aircraft's right main wheel completely left the paved surface. I was not told if the aircraft returned to the runway, if it taxied to the gate or stayed where it was. And its not important now...
The part that is of importance is that colleagues of us, be it Expats or Locals, made dificult yet wrong decisions, and I belive its easy to blame and point fingers when he/she was not or has never been in that situation, but yes, it would be nice to see "constructive corrective actions" instead of a correction that is typical of the punitive culture that everyone hates so much, be it local or foreign.
What happened last week is bad; not for the Expats, not for the locals, but for ANY pilot professionally operating in Vietnam!

[kimono1950]

Guys; I deleted my last post as I was posting in a rumor only; but it seems it was not so much a rumor after all.
Some of my latin american coleagues confirmed to me and I was shown pictures of the Runway Excursion in Hanoi; it was a complete excursion of the right main wheel; the Da Nang excursion did apparently break a few runway lights after it was affected by a 27kt gust left crosswind (reported wind by TWR was wind veing variable with 3!), but returned to the center of the runway without leaving the paved surface; it still requires to be mentioned that it IS and foremost will always be a Captains responsability to decide who is in what function during a critical phase and what to do when things do not go as planned. The Expat Pilot is at fault for that oversight, NO matter the experience level of the First Officer. What I was explained by colleagues is that he IS accepting full responsability, something I admire of him! (Yes, perhaps a local pilot would not, but perhaps he would, we do not know...)
The Hanoi incident crew was reported to have been a local, to say full Vietnamese crew, and the aircraft's right main wheel completely left the paved surface. I was not told if the aircraft returned to the runway, if it taxied to the gate or stayed where it was. And its not important now...
The part that is of importance is that colleagues of us, be it Expats or Locals, made dificult yet wrong decisions, and I belive its easy to blame and point fingers when he/she was not or has never been in that situation, but yes, it would be nice to see "constructive corrective actions" instead of a correction that is typical of the punitive culture that everyone hates so much, be it local or foreign.
What happened last week is bad; not for the Expats, not for the locals, but for ANY pilot professionally operating in Vietnam!

Should we cry ?:{ :p

[EagleA25]

Should we cry ?:{ :p

Sure; but since not everyone of us thinks of themselfs being Captain America himself and belive this could happen to me, too, a little compassion and constructive critizism should be in place. You might be in one of these situations yourself one day and react wrong. We are all too human...

But here a thought: ever spent a minute or two thinking about WHY local pilots are the way they are? Or why there is a general Anti-Expat consensus among them?
Question to you, me guessing you being an Expat like me: would a Vietnamese pilot be allowed to work in YOUR country? Not in mine, and it has nothing to do with their skill level but where the pilot was born...
I politely would like you think a little, you, like me, are a guest worker here taking advantage of a need that the country themselves can not cover as we are not happy working in our own country. We have no right to claim anything...

[wingdeagle]

Sure; but since not everyone of us thinks of themselfs being Captain America himself and belive this could happen to me, too, a little compassion and constructive critizism should be in place. You might be in one of these situations yourself one day and react wrong. We are all too human...

But here a thought: ever spent a minute or two thinking about WHY local pilots are the way they are? Or why there is a general Anti-Expat consensus among them?
Question to you, me guessing you being an Expat like me: would a Vietnamese pilot be allowed to work in YOUR country? Not in mine, and it has nothing to do with their skill level but where the pilot was born...
I politely would like you think a little, you, like me, are a guest worker here taking advantage of a need that the country themselves can not cover as we are not happy working in our own country. We have no right to claim anything...

I could have not said it better, Eagle :ok::ok::ok:.

I do agree with the previous statements that unless they really bend metal (and they are on the best way to do it) no one will ever care to ask WHY things are the way they are.

The ever lower getting standards by some (not all) locals, but also Expats with very questionable background and performance will keep hurting the safety record of this airline.

Management has no urge to ask WHY. It's always easier to blame the pilots for not following SOPs than impose a real change. Change away from punitive culture to SMS (I am sure VNA management does not even know what SMS is ... they were too busy chasing the 4th star from Skytrax ... a private company only frequent travelers know about; the majority of traveling public does not, nor do they care). Change will also mean admitting that the way things are going is not the right way, since "loss of face" comes in. Keep having the idiotic "safety debriefs", publicly humiliate pilots; and management is off the hook.

This company has more problems than they realize and deserves tons of criticism. But personally insulting locals, calling them names, using prejudist and racist slurs like a few on this board is discrediting to the ones who are posting them.

Stay safe guys !

[RTBCXP]

Hi

Sorry if my email are not appropriate.

I'm just graduated from flight school, and hold ICAO CPL/IR/ME License. Now I'm looking for Line Training Program and job opportunity after that.

I found an advertising about Vietjet Line Training program few days ago. Is there any guy who had experience with LT program?

[wingdeagle]

Hi

Sorry if my email are not appropriate.

I'm just graduated from flight school, and hold ICAO CPL/IR/ME License. Now I'm looking for Line Training Program and job opportunity after that.

I found an advertising about Vietjet Line Training program few days ago. Is there any guy who had experience with LT program?

Suggest you check on the Vietjet threads then. This is Vietnam Airlines page.

[kimono1950]

I could have not said it better, Eagle :ok::ok::ok:.

I do agree with the previous statements that unless they really bend metal (and they are on the best way to do it) no one will ever care to ask WHY things are the way they are.

The ever lower getting standards by some (not all) locals, but also Expats with very questionable background and performance will keep hurting the safety record of this airline.

Management has no urge to ask WHY. It's always easier to blame the pilots for not following SOPs "strictly" than imposing a real change. Change away from punitive culture to SMS (I am sure VNA management does not even know what SMS is ... they were too busy chasing the 4th star from Skytrax ... a private company only frequent travelers know about; the majority of traveling public does not, nor do they care). Change will also mean admitting that the way things are going is not the right way, since "loss of face" comes in. Keep having the idiotic "safety debriefs", publicly humiliate pilots; and management is off the hook.

This company has more problems than they realize and deserves tons of criticism. But personally insulting locals, calling them names, using prejudist and racist slurs like a few on this board is discrediting to the ones who are posting them.

Stay safe guys !


I rest my case ! No point to argue with a bunch of sucklips like you ! :ugh:

[kimono1950]

What is it true :any time some goes seriously wrong, about once a week, it is a viet pilot as PF.

They want to get ride of the expats, ok. But after do not cry if you are forbidden to overfly China or flying to Australia. Not to talk about be blacklisted in Europe.

These guys are more interested in smuggling goods from any foreign countries , than to fly correctly the aircrafts.

One guy said , no viet will be allowed to fly in my country, it is true, but to be honest, I thing they should not fly in Vietnam either.:hmm:

What I can say is, on my country, they will not be treated the way they have treated the poor guys they fired , with no reason !:ugh:

[wingdeagle]

What is it true :any time some goes seriously wrong, about once a week, it is a viet pilot as PF.

They want to get ride of the expats, ok. But after do not cry if you are forbidden to overfly China or flying to Australia. Not to talk about be blacklisted in Europe.

These guys are more interested in smuggling goods from any foreign countries , than to fly correctly the aircrafts.

One guy said , no viet will be allowed to fly in my country, it is true, but to be honest, I thing they should not fly in Vietnam either.:hmm:

What I can say is, on my country, they will not be treated the way they have treated the poor guys they fired , with no reason !:ugh:

Kimono, I think most of us on this forum are aware and even agree about the standards at VN and the problems they are facing. Yet as I previously mentioned, it is a Vietnamese airline and the locals have the right to run it the way they concider is right. And if they are wrong, they will face the concequnces. While it may give you a better feeling to vent over the internet, you must know you are not achieving anything. Not by insulting people, not by calling them names. In the matter of fact I am not even sure you work for VN and if you do, why don't you just pack and leave ? If this place is as bad as you say why hang out ? There are plenty of Airbus jobs out on the open market. Or are you simply pissed off because you would like to leave but can't due to some other "pleasant obligations" many expats got themselves into while in Vietnam ? I also noticed that the angrier you get, your English grammar seems to deteriorate. But as long as you know the terms like "sucklips" and are in possession of your racist slurs, it's all good, I guess. If you indeed are an airline pilot, than I am ultimately ashamed to share the same profession with the likes of you. I suggest a hefty doze of anger management class before you consider controlling an airliner. You are scary !

[Yesse]

I agree that we shouldn't fault the respect to these people, but at least, try to advise to all other colleagues who are thinking to join this company, that is is not a safe place to fly anymore. VNA is not like the company was 10 years ago. They are getting rid of all expat pilots, and is just a matter of time that all of them will be fired. I couldn't ask to any of my friends to come here, because i don't know when they will receive the 60 days notice, and doesn't matter what the agencies are saying or promising, is a fact, they want to fire all expat pilots at least the can do it. Now they need to cover the huge hole they have because many guys could see the situation, and they left. So who want to join a comoany where all expat pilots are leaving of being fired? That's the point. If they fly better or worst, if the management is corrupt and they care only about how much money they could take from ur pockets, is their problem. Better stay away of VNA, because when they don't beed u, u will be fired with 60 days notice, even if u signed a contract for 10000 years. Good luck guys, and choose well.

[pezetaroi]

Indeed, although hiring has been announced I wouldn't recommend any of my friends or colleagues to apply, as there is no guarantee that the five year contact will be respected. Remember that if a pilot does not complete his term, he is subject to a penalty, however this does not apply to the agency or company, as they can terminate it whenever they feel necessary (without any consequences). Truth is we do not have any certainty of when the massive expat cleaning will begin. The only thing that might help is the fact that all of the PF in the last four serious events, were local.

[EagleA25]

Indeed, although hiring has been announced I wouldn't recommend any of my friends or colleagues to apply, as there is no guarantee that the five year contact will be respected. Remember that if a pilot does not complete his term, he is subject to a penalty, however this does not apply to the agency or company, as they can terminate it whenever they feel necessary (without any consequences). Truth is we do not have any certainty of when the massive expat cleaning will begin. The only thing that might help is the fact that all of the PF in the last four serious events, were local.

Peze; what is it exactly that you want? Assurance that you become untouchable for the time your contract is on?
The fire/hire at companies discretion is anywhere you go around the world; it depends on the economy at the moment; if you are being laid off for economical reasons, the process has different names: in S America its called "efficiency", Europeans call it "Streamlining", the US it became famouse as "furlough"; any company does it; VNA is NO exception!
You might want to wake up to how things work in NON-unionized companies... you are older than 18 years of age, I assume? No one MADE you sign on, you signed the contract on free will WITH the clause that says "at company discretion"...
May I ask why you did not make it into a unionized company in your home country? Ahhh... yes, you see?
I can not say I am not one of the many who were disapointed, but accumulating anger, as Kimono, is not healthy, not for anyone!
If VNA continues on its present track, yes, they WILL have a major accident sometime soon! But as long as YOU keep your cockpit organized and take good decisions, this will NOT affect you! Just Be a professional and have some self respect!
Blue skies!

PS anyone internally applying for the A350 here?

[pezetaroi]

Eagle:

Of course I'm aware that we do not have a union and that as expats, our job is always on the line, I refer to the "Vietnamisation" of VNA, where in a few years from now, their plan is to have a 100% local pilot base. Few of the aviators currently flying here have been a part of the company for more than eight years, which I highly doubt any of us will achieve, due to the mentioned fact. On my experience, as long as you follow SOPs and do not have a major incident, you will be out of trouble. Chinese/ME companies are much more strict than VNA and I do appreciate the fact of working on a more "relaxed" atmosphere. I am not speaking against VNA or there future plans for us, that is the way it is and I fully take responsibility of my decision of joining here. But I also know that the clock is ticking and I wouldn't recommend to join now, because I highly doubt that they will need us in five years from now.

About becoming and expat, well, I would very probably still be flying in my unionized legacy airline at home if it hadn't gone bankrupt.

[pezetaroi]

Regarding the 350, who wouldn't want to fly long sectors to Japan, Korea, Europe, Australia, etc instead of sorting the bad wx in Vietnam everyday? The truth is I do believe the same scenario will repeat again, when the expat FOs went for their upgrade "interview". Management will open the door, but Fleet Office will be in charge of standing you in the wall in front of a firing squad. I really hope it's not the case, but I highly doubt a big number of pilots will actually pass the screening. Nevertheless we've got nothing to loose, do we?

Safe flights! ;-)

[EagleA25]

Hey everyone, to be honest, the A350 offer came to me as a complete surprise, just as it did to many of my Expat AND local colleagues; aditionally, my Broker actually made a very fair and reasonable upgrade offer for everyone interested.
Rumors are surging that , after hearing for months over months that the A350 fleet was supposed to remain a "pride for Vietnamese Pilots only" fleet, that there is a more profound reason why it is now becoming "Expat-Friendly". It is said that another crew, last month, pure Vietnamese, fell asleep again on the way to CDG and was rudely awakened after 45 mins without any contact... so, to sum it up, it seems that it has become an ethical and work moral problem which management wishes to resolve by letting Expats on the A350... who would have thought, some of us might actually have a real shot at the wide-body upgrade...

[pezetaroi]

I wouldn't be surprised, after all, we all know policies change from one day to the other here... ;-)

[VietJetPilot]

Since everyone here knows about the Hanoi runway excursion, I'd like to widen the perspective a little and dedicated tgos post to Vietnam Airline's Shaming Tradition/Policy and make the following known:
the Turd's who used his family influence and illegally manipulated crew rostering to go for a quick spin in the A321 with one of his high school buddies junior FO.

Here a quick resume:

Turd goes off-roading in Noi Bai during a thunderstorm overhead after his junior FO not just asked but demanded a Go-Around THREE TIMES is the BEST example of what Vietnam's Aviation Youth has to offer!

https://ibb.co/huyaba

https://ibb.co/neOaba


After coming back to the runway, he taxies back to the gate, parks his plane, pretends nothing even happened, then even tries to bribe the mechanics on the spot. But since pictures were already taken, technicians, well aware of their dilemma, did not want to stick their heads for this ignoramus into a noose and declined (good for them!)

Even though this event showed the level of immaturity of this super-star, his complete lack of Aeronautical Decision Making and the process involved, no ethical remorse what so ever for the safety of his clients but only for his own image and career, an unimaginable level of incompetence and disrespect for Crew Resource Management administration as a Commander, he is currently receiving "remedial training" with some of the most mediocre A321 instructors of the company who are just ****ting their pants to put any constructive criticism into the training file about this asshat as they all know it will cost them their job! This guy has DANGEROUS written all over him, but since he's the son of... well, you all get the picture! Now, lets compare this with the Expat Pilot in Da Nang who took complete responsibility for the actions of his Vietnamese first officer; well, the Safety Management System is Top-Notch in Vietnam Airlines!

Guys, please, the underlying message here for interested pilots is: DO NOT come to Vietnam Airlines if you value your careers! Every month since January VNA received an unprecedented amount of resignations as the problems are getting more and more evident. There are SO many better Air Carriers out there offering not just more money, better benefits but at a WAY lower risk to your health! It will NOT end well! Here you will be part of an airline that prefers to "safe face" than to adequately address safety issues! The way this is done is extremely mediocre and reactive in every way!

#VietnamAirlines #IATA #AviationSafety #SkyTeam

[EagleA25]

I wouldn't be surprised, after all, we all know policies change from one day to the other here... ;-)

Dude...
I just realized you're the "owner" of this thread...
Respect! 😆

[pezetaroi]

Dude...
I just realized you're the "owner" of this thread...
Respect! 😆

Lol... I guess destiny meant me to come here... cheers and safe flights... ;-)

[ia1166]

Hey everyone, to be honest, the A350 offer came to me as a complete surprise, just as it did to many of my Expat AND local colleagues; aditionally, my Broker actually made a very fair and reasonable upgrade offer for everyone interested.
Rumors are surging that , after hearing for months over months that the A350 fleet was supposed to remain a "pride for Vietnamese Pilots only" fleet, that there is a more profound reason why it is now becoming "Expat-Friendly". It is said that another crew, last month, pure Vietnamese, fell asleep again on the way to CDG and was rudely awakened after 45 mins without any contact... so, to sum it up, it seems that it has become an ethical and work moral problem which management wishes to resolve by letting Expats on the A350... who would have thought, some of us might actually have a real shot at the wide-body upgrade...

But doesn't this involve giving money to the airline?

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Paying my employer money, so i can earn less money.

[EagleA25]

But doesn't this involve giving money to the airline?

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Paying my employer money, so i can earn less money.

Well, that's kinda how things work here in SE Asia; you pay to fly and pay to upgrade; again, there are NO unions and seniority is a reference, nothing else. Besides, it isn't really that much different from what most of us did when we started our training and got pur PPL's and CPL's; also, no one's putting a gun to your head, you can stay put if you like...
Personal preference of lifestyle, I guess; also, money is not everything, some of us have been flying the mini-bus for a while; I'm looking forward to a change of pace if the opportunity arised...
have a great weekend everyone!

[ia1166]

Well, that's kinda how things work here in SE Asia; you pay to fly and pay to upgrade; again, there are NO unions and seniority is a reference, nothing else. Besides, it isn't really that much different from what most of us did when we started our training and got pur PPL's and CPL's; also, no one's putting a gun to your head, you can stay put if you like...
Personal preference of lifestyle, I guess; also, money is not everything, some of us have been flying the mini-bus for a while; I'm looking forward to a change of pace if the opportunity arised...
have a great weekend everyone!

Sure. Depends on your take on it. 22 years on the scarebus, and never paid for anything in aviation apart from the odd sim check, means it is a hard step for me to take. We all have choices.

Also as has been said here a lot, i think 5 more years here is slightly optomistic maybe? So where would you go with a 350 type rating. As a contractor the type to be on is the 320, sad as it is.

[pezetaroi]

Also as has been said here a lot, i think 5 more years here is slightly optomistic maybe? So where would you go with a 350 type rating. As a contractor the type to be on is the 320, sad as it is.

That precisely, is something to think a lot about, as mercenaries our best weapon will always be the 320... Undoubtedly the 350 will give us a completely different panorama, but besides the fact that we will have to pay for our rating and have a reduced salary during the training, after the 5 year contract our options will be very limited...

[ThunderLizard]

Just browse through 330 jobs on Rish or Parc today. That's what A350 jobs will be like in a few years. That being said, my guess is the 320 will continue to offer the best job security, in SE Asia at least. There's just so many of them.

[ia1166]

Time will tell of course. But i heard the 350 isn't proving very popular. Lots more options with a 787 rating i would have thought.

Its all speculation, but work on the 320 is guarenteed for another 10 years at least.

[EagleA25]

Just browse through 330 jobs on Rish or Parc today. That's what A350 jobs will be like in a few years. That being said, my guess is the 320 will continue to offer the best job security, in SE Asia at least. There's just so many of them.

I think in the end its a question of lifestyle; on the 321 I manage 27 days at home average sleeping on my own pillow; the 350? No one knows yet, but costs of livonf will definetly increase (wife will want to come along everywhere; but who can blame her?).
The question also is, will the 350 rating be accepted anywhere else after 5 years as the License will say "for VNA only"? You might not even want to stay after your contract is over... and then?
Another input I had was that the 330 and 350 will be one rating, especially when the A330Neo comes out...
It seems that sometimes bigger is not always better...
Suggestions?

[wingdeagle]

Since everyone here knows about the Hanoi runway excursion, I'd like to widen the perspective a little and dedicated tgos post to Vietnam Airline's Shaming Tradition/Policy and make the following known:
the Turd's who used his family influence and illegally manipulated crew rostering to go for a quick spin in the A321 with one of his high school buddies junior FO.

Here a quick resume:

Turd goes off-roading in Noi Bai during a thunderstorm overhead after his junior FO not just asked but demanded a Go-Around THREE TIMES is the BEST example of what Vietnam's Aviation Youth has to offer!

https://ibb.co/huyaba

https://ibb.co/neOaba


After coming back to the runway, he taxies back to the gate, parks his plane, pretends nothing even happened, then even tries to bribe the mechanics on the spot. But since pictures were already taken, technicians, well aware of their dilemma, did not want to stick their heads for this ignoramus into a noose and declined (good for them!)

Even though this event showed the level of immaturity of this super-star, his complete lack of Aeronautical Decision Making and the process involved, no ethical remorse what so ever for the safety of his clients but only for his own image and career, an unimaginable level of incompetence and disrespect for Crew Resource Management administration as a Commander, he is currently receiving "remedial training" with some of the most mediocre A321 instructors of the company who are just ****ting their pants to put any constructive criticism into the training file about this asshat as they all know it will cost them their job! This guy has DANGEROUS written all over him, but since he's the son of... well, you all get the picture! Now, lets compare this with the Expat Pilot in Da Nang who took complete responsibility for the actions of his Vietnamese first officer; well, the Safety Management System is Top-Notch in Vietnam Airlines!

Guys, please, the underlying message here for interested pilots is: DO NOT come to Vietnam Airlines if you value your careers! Every month since January VNA received an unprecedented amount of resignations as the problems are getting more and more evident. There are SO many better Air Carriers out there offering not just more money, better benefits but at a WAY lower risk to your health! It will NOT end well! Here you will be part of an airline that prefers to "safe face" than to adequately address safety issues! The way this is done is extremely mediocre and reactive in every way!

#VietnamAirlines #IATA #AviationSafety #SkyTeam

Amazing ! So a privileged kid takes a 321 ride for a spin, puts it into grass, taxies to the gate like nothing happened, tries to bribe engineers etc. All this sounds very believable and yes, in other countries this would be a criminal offense ! Next thing you know, the discussion turns into 321 vs 350. If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ? Thanks for posting VietJetPilot.

[ia1166]

I think in the end its a question of lifestyle; on the 321 I manage 27 days at home average sleeping on my own pillow; the 350? No one knows yet, but costs of livonf will definetly increase (wife will want to come along everywhere; but who can blame her?).
The question also is, will the 350 rating be accepted anywhere else after 5 years as the License will say "for VNA only"? You might not even want to stay after your contract is over... and then?
Another input I had was that the 330 and 350 will be one rating, especially when the A330Neo comes out...
It seems that sometimes bigger is not always better...
Suggestions?

It wont be transferable to a UK Easa licnece. Its a good point that after leaving here it will be useless as your licence will be cancelled.

At the moment i am home in my own bed every night bar 3 or 4. And i am always in bed by midnight ish.

Look at the long haul guys. Its a brutal lifestyle. And you cant take your wife with you here either.

[pezetaroi]

s If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ?

Whether we like it or not, that's just the way it works here (and everywhere else where expats are part of a Flag Carrier) so there's really nothing we can do about it but fly on the safe side, or is there?

Back on the 350; yes, the rating will be on our "exclusive" license and very difficult to add to our international one, so another point to think about.

cheers

[EagleA25]

Amazing ! So a privileged kid takes a 321 ride for a spin, puts it into grass, taxies to the gate like nothing happened, tries to bribe engineers etc. All this sounds very believable and yes, in other countries this would be a criminal offense ! Next thing you know, the discussion turns into 321 vs 350. If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ? Thanks for posting VietJetPilot.
Wing: we are not "part" of this; every Commander is responsible for his/her own flight; if Vietjetpilot wants to make a dent into VNA, he is barking at the wrong place; here, at leat I belive, the majority are serious and career oriented pilots who look for information and opinions on opportunities and operational issues; I'm really not interested on reading about a young colleagues escapades.
My personal opinion on that issue? Not the first; won't be the last. If VNA management does not feel it is worth any more disciplinary actions then it is them who will take responsibility for any events in the future which will have far reaching consequences affecting everyone, not just local pilots!
As this Airline is under Communist rule, what would you like the pilot community in VNA to do? Go on strike? :ok:
Vietjetpilot, wake up man; this airline is "taking advantage" of the pilots that come here, quit your complaining and start taking advantage of them!

Back to the A350 upgrade discussion: anyone know what is the EASA requirement to add the type to the license is?

[ElitePilot]

With regards to 330/350 transfer once you have 500hours on type, do a skill test, do the paperwork, pay the money wait for the endorsement. I don't see the problem.

[ia1166]

I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.

[EagleA25]

I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.

You got a good point there... is the A330 and 350 "one license" now?
If so, the future for the A330Neo looks kinda interesting...

[nike]

Whether we like it or not, that's just the way it works here

Normalisation of deviance.

and everywhere else where expats are part of a Flag Carrier)

Nope.

If VNA management does not feel it is worth any more disciplinary actions then it is them who will take responsibility for any events in the future

Hahaha! Management would never take responsibility.

Back to the A350 upgrade discussion

Sad state of affairs on show here.

[ZFT]

I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.

I would recommend you recheck all of the above with an ATO because I believe you are incorrect

[safelife]

EASA rule is rating can be renewed till 36 months lapsed. Thereafter full course required.
Renewal training depends on your flying duty in between. A320 lapsed three years while flying 330 or 350 (comparable aircraft) means no additional training required, just the LPC.

[ElitePilot]

IA you are not correct. First of all EASA TRTO's went out many years ago replaced by ATO.
It is not mandatory with most states I am aware of to go through an ATO as there is no training requirement so long as you meet the requirements from Commision Reg 1178 just a Skill Test and evidence of flight hours on third country license.
Next you do not lose a 320 rating after 2 years. You can not fly the plane for years and keep it current by LPC every year with no ATO. Or let it lapse with increasing "recommended" sim sessions as per ATO discretion up to 3 years as safelife says.
I'm not trying to pick an argument but if you're not interested don't make false statements if you don't know, it misleads.

[ia1166]

Sure, i probably am a long way out of date as i am not particularly interested in paperwork and suggested anyone considering this should check their state regulations.

I can ask my mates up in the belgrano for clarification maybe.

I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,

[Luke SkyToddler]

Go ask captain M or captain V at Green Dot Aviation, they've done loads of EASA renewals for VNA pilots

[ia1166]

Sure, but not all easa is the same. Better to check with your home country. I have some old chopper mates up in the belgrano who keep an eye on my stuff.

I have heard some of the 330 guys can struggle to get a lpc from their home country. Getting sim and a tre or whatever they are called now. I can only imagine getting one on the 350 could be an expensive event. Getting your easa 320 lpc out here is expensive too. Certainly a lot lot more than my one was in england. And getting a sandbag for the other seat?

Its just more sense to me to stay on the 320. The cost to change fleet could be invested in property which is more interesting than slogging back and forward to japan at night.

Alternatively go to China Southern where its just a bond.

[ZFT]

Sure, but not all easa is the same. Better to check with your home country. I have some old chopper mates up in the belgrano who keep an eye on my stuff.

I have heard some of the 330 guys can struggle to get a lpc from their home country. Getting sim and a tre or whatever they are called now. I can only imagine getting one on the 350 could be an expensive event. Getting your easa 320 lpc out here is expensive too. Certainly a lot lot more than my one was in england. And getting a sandbag for the other seat?

Its just more sense to me to stay on the 320. The cost to change fleet could be invested in property which is more interesting than slogging back and forward to japan at night.

Alternatively go to China Southern where its just a bond.

Sure, but not all easa is the same.

Seems to defeat the purpose?

[wingdeagle]

I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,[/QUOTE]

Even though I should stay out of this 350 discussion as it does not affect me, here are a few reasons I can see why: you avoid four sectors in the overcrowded skies of Vietnam. You have practiced enough holding patterns, tired of dealing with mediocre Vietnamese ATC :ugh: and got fed up with switching airplanes in the middle of a busy flying day. You stay away from the "I just got released" 200 hour wonders who know all the level 1,2,3 numbers by heart, but don't remember one memory item of the Airbus (only God knows how 90% of them get "released" nowadays) :=, you sit in a pub in Narita having your ego massaged by telling your mates from other airlines you are flying a brand new A350 :D, sit in a Paris cafe enjoying a nice cup of coffee and the "views", all while your A321 mates back in Vietnam are continuously getting harassed with schedule changes and calls out on their stand by days to either do a typhoon flight some "air aces" don't feel like operating or it's a Sunday morning and they have to cover "sick" calls. I do agree with ia1166 though, going to the 350 severely limits a contract pilot's options should there be a need to find a new job.

[EagleA25]

I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,

Even though it does not affect me, there are many good reasons I can see why: you avoid four sectors in the overcrowded skies of Vietnam. You have practiced enough holding patterns, tired of dealing with mediocre Vietnamese ATC :ugh: and got fed up with switching airplanes in the middle of a busy flying day. You stay away from the "I just got released 200 hour wonders who know all the level 1,2,3 numbers by heart, but don't remember one memory item of the Airbus (only God knows how 90% of them nowadays get "released")" :=, you sit in a pub in Narita having your ego massaged by telling your mates from other airlines you are flying a brand new A350 :D, sit in a Paris cafe enjoying a nice cup of coffee and the "views", all while your A321 mates back in Vietnam are continuously getting harassed with schedule changes and calls out on their stand by days to either do a typhoon flight some "air aces" don't feel like operating or it's a Sunday morning and they have to cover "sick" calls. Like everything in aviation, it's all a trade off. Cheers.[/QUOTE]

You are funny... 🤣

[ia1166]

I only have 3 4 sector days this month, 3 overnight stays, 2 in dad and 1 in cxr. No night flights, 60 hours flying.

Are you keeping a record of your duty time? 4 sector days really ramp it up,and you will exceed the 4 week limit, not the 7 day one.

In response to your 350 reasoning, I save almost all my salary and dont need to be buying 10 euro coffee in paris, sitting around on my own all day, or in some bar talking to pilots, same for Narita thanks. Seen it once, dont need to see it again, and i certainly dont want to sit in the front of an airplane for 5 excruitiating hours in the dark, or worse 12 hours. I actually like take off and landing as its interesting. And i get to chat to people on the ground a bit, and make a cup of tea.

Also lots of free time in the gym of my choice, not some hotel gym. Lovely.

You will need to get assesed and signed off by a UK ATO for your 350 rating. Good luck as not many operators in the uk. You will have to pay a premium for a mainline tre i suspect for check also. Which will need to be a UK ATO approved checker. Thats from my mate in the bee hive. Do your own research.

And why would you keep your A 320 type rating on your home licence while flying the 350 on your VN one. Puts you right up,the creek should you suddenly become unemployed. You need currency.

My mates quote good luck, not many 350 operators here.

Which is my point i guess.

[EagleA25]

I only have 3 4 sector days this month, 3 overnight stays, 2 in dad and 1 in cxr. No night flights, 60 hours flying.

Are you keeping a record of your duty time? 4 sector days really ramp it up,and you will exceed the 4 week limit, not the 7 day one.

In response to your 350 reasoning, I save almost all my salary and dont need to be buying 10 euro coffee in paris, sitting around on my own all day, or in some bar talking to pilots, same for Narita thanks. Seen it once, dont need to see it again, and i certainly dont want to sit in the front of an airplane for 5 excruitiating hours in the dark, or worse 12 hours. I actually like take off and landing as its interesting. And i get to chat to people on the ground a bit, and make a cup of tea.

Also lots of free time in the gym of my choice, not some hotel gym. Lovely.

You will need to get assesed and signed off by a UK ATO for your 350 rating. Good luck as not many operators in the uk. You will have to pay a premium for a mainline tre i suspect for check also. Which will need to be a UK ATO approved checker. Thats from my mate in the bee hive. Do your own research.

And why would you keep your A 320 type rating on your home licence while flying the 350 on your VN one. Puts you right up,the creek should you suddenly become unemployed. You need currency.

My mates quote good luck, not many 350 operators here.

Which is my point i guess.

Mate; I hate to disagree, but I understand that the 330 and 350 are essentially now the same license with EASA:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/20140917%20A350%20Letter%20of%20Acceptance.pdf

So, I have a feeling that once you are able to get the A350 TR on your license a whole world of operators flying the A330 and in the future A330Neo's open up; and yes, in most companies, bigger means better (pay, time off, destinations, treatment)... but as you said, its everyone's personal choice... which opens up another can of worms: how will Brexit affect EASA

10 Euro Coffee? With a view of the Eifel Tower, right? 😆 I might get myself into tge smuggling business as the cabin crew is; geez!
I used to love T/O's and landings, too, and especially hand-flying! What I liked even more is tutoring amd teaching young and aspiring First Officers. But, since here the levels of aeronautical incompetence have to be protected and good stick and rudder skills are just considered "show-off-skills", A321 Fleet SOP now states that the autopilot is to remain connected until landing configuration is set! Yeah, with the auto-trim operating, those configuration changes seem to be extremely hazardous!
So, yeah, I actually prefer not to anymore, I compensate my need for this kind of adrenalin rush on my vacation time flying Extra 300's at home!

But there is a good point you are making: here in VNA they use that bird to fly only to Da Nang, Hanoi, Tokio and Paris, thats all, or am I missing anything? 🙄

[ZFT]

Mate; I hate to disagree, but I understand that the 330 and 350 are essentially now the same license with EASA:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/20140917%20A350%20Letter%20of%20Acceptance.pdf

So, I have a feeling that once you are able to get the A350 TR on your license a whole world of operators flying the A330 and in the future A330Neo's open up; and yes, in most companies, bigger means better (pay, time off, destinations, treatment)... but as you said, its everyone's personal choice... which opens up another can of worms: how will Brexit affect EASA

10 Euro Coffee? With a view of the Eifel Tower, right? 😆 I might get myself into tge smuggling business as the cabin crew is; geez!
I used to love T/O's and landings, too, and especially hand-flying! What I liked even more is tutoring amd teaching young and aspiring First Officers. But, since here the levels of aeronautical incompetence have to be protected and good stick and rudder skills are just considered "show-off-skills", A321 Fleet SOP now states that the autopilot is to remain connected until landing configuration is set! Yeah, with the auto-trim operating, those configuration changes seem to be extremely hazardous!
So, yeah, I actually prefer not to anymore, I compensate my need for this kind of adrenalin rush on my vacation time flying Extra 300's at home!

But there is a good point you are making: here in VNA they use that bird to fly only to Da Nang, Hanoi, Tokio and Paris, thats all, or am I missing anything? 🙄

Brexit has no impact on EASA. May well have significant implications for UK CAA downstream

[EagleA25]

Brexit has no impact on EASA. May well have significant implications for UK CAA downstream

Sweet! 👍 Thanks for the info!

[ElitePilot]

Just for clarification in EASA world you can do the Skills Test for either 330 or 350 (whichever you are current on). Exactly the same as 777/787. You get the other stamped on the same line in all EASA states I am aware of. True there are some differences between state but the jist is meet the 500hr req and do a Skill Test with an EASA TRE in an approved sim.
UK CAA has just released a relevent Information Notice stating they want a license verification by the 3rd country CAA before applying for this service. (effective 1st July 2017). Other states just go with the basics and don't ask any questions. Harmonisation :)
On the other note deff worth keeping the 320rating ticking over as a backup.

[GAVARD]

Hi everybody,

Does anybody Have some details information about Vietnam airline interview, written test and simulator ?
Thanks

[EagleA25]

Hi everybody,

Does anybody Have some details information about Vietnam airline interview, written test and simulator ?
Thanks

Gavard;
I went through the process a year and a half ago, its VERY simple; study the smartcockpit systems of the plane you are applying for, speak kindly and know your normal, basic abnormal and supplementary procedures.
The one-on-one interview is a short and basic systems knowledge Q&A, and an even more basic "hi, who are you?"; funny thing, if you don't give them a reason to, you'll probably never see any of the managers of the company ever again...
In the sim you might get some basic failures and dispatch/startup problems; definetly one engine failure, perhaps inextinguishable fire. Use basic airman and checklist discipline and you'll do fine.
Hope thos helps; Good luck!

[Yesse]

Guys, i was in the office today, because i am doing my recurrent sim, and i saw a lot of brand new local cadets. I was talking with oke of them, and he told me that they are 500 in total for this year. So, 500 cadets plus 250 who will be relased shortly, will be around 750 new pilots in the company. The local instructor, who is my friend, told me that these cadets will give the upgrade to the actual local FO's ( around 200 with nearly 5000 hours ) within the next 1 or 2 years, so good bye to the expat captains after this time. The agencies are doing fake promises to the pilots that they need for this short period of time, but then they will say, sorry... You have 60 days and ur contract will be finished. So guys, choose another option if u are thinking about future in this company. All this info was just confirmed again for some other high position person in the office this morning. If you want to join, is up to you, but this is the real thing that nobody will tell you, and the real thing that many others they just don't want to see. Good luck!!

[Yesse]

Hi everybody,

Does anybody Have some details information about Vietnam airline interview, written test and simulator ?
Thanks

My friend, better find another better option. VNA is not for expat anymore. Good luck!!

[BESTGLIDESPEED]

Hi guys

Do any of u know if there are any Vietnamese airlines hiring DECs for A330 ?

Would you also happen to know what are the rosterings like and also the Econ. Cond. ?

Looking to move to Asia and that I've been told is Avery good place to start looking around

Thx

[iggy]

Only Vietnam Airlines with 330 in the country.

You may approach VJ and Pacific for DEC A320 if you hold a current 320 TR and they are short enough to give you an extended line training. Money is good if you work hard, really hard for it.

330 better look Hong Kong Airlines.

Mucha suerte.

[fivecandles]

Anyone got info on TRE positions in Vietnam Airlines?

[Yesse]

Anyone got info on TRE positions in Vietnam Airlines?


Yes, if you dare to join this company, first you should be really brave, and second, don't planify to stay here more than 2-3 years maximum. You will be fired, same as all other expat FO's, Captains, LTC, TRI and TRE. They are recruiting a lot of locals LTC, TRI and TRE now. Why? You can guess, the salary of a local TRE is $5000 vs 14-15 thousand of an expat. The thing is that now they need to cover the huge hole they have, because many captains left the company already after knowing these plans, and as they didn't expect that this could happen, now they have a huge problem, and they need everything... Good luck!!

[fivecandles]

Thanks for the warning - appreciate it

[Yesse]

Thanks for the warning - appreciate it

Its ok fivecandels, finally we are here to help each other and try to share our experiences. The agencies are promising everything, but then, when vna says that they don't need you anymore, they will just let you know with 60 days notice. Is the way as they work, and is written in the contract. No warranties for pilots, just protection for the company and the agency. As we know that all these things are happening, and the plans of vna were revealed, so i think is more than easy to choose well, specially if you are planning for a long time contract. If don't, then maybe could be a good chance, but keep in mind that they could finish your contract at any time, because the fact is that they could be many things, but not serious at all. With these considerations, i think that there are many better options than vna in Asia. Good luck!!

[Golgoth1]

I have something to say to people interested to join Vietnam airlines,this airline is full of bull****,liers and incompétent.They fire you 1 time every year,depends on their moods and how much you willing to pay to stay here,and sometime this is not enough.Moreover,if you want to join such airline,you have to know that the agencies will not support you at all and let you in very big trouble,expecially with no license revalidation and no financial compensation.so good luck,and stay very far away for this bunch of clowns.

[ia1166]

Anyone got info on TRE positions in Vietnam Airlines?


Sure , what do you want to know?

[ia1166]

I have something to say to people interested to join Vietnam airlines,this airline is full of bull****,liers and incompétent.They fire you 1 time every year,depends on their moods and how much you willing to pay to stay here,and sometime this is not enough.Moreover,if you want to join such airline,you have to know that the agencies will not support you at all and let you in very big trouble,expecially with no license revalidation and no financial compensation.so good luck,and stay very far away for this bunch of clowns.

Nice, but in 14 years here, i would disagree with most of what you say. If not all in fact.

People have been fired for lots of things, mostly i would say are justified. If you want to bring up individual cases please be more specific.

[ia1166]

Yes, if you dare to join this company, first you should be really brave, and second, don't planify to stay here more than 2-3 years maximum. You will be fired, same as all other expat FO's, Captains, LTC, TRI and TRE. They are recruiting a lot of locals LTC, TRI and TRE now. Why? You can guess, the salary of a local TRE is $5000 vs 14-15 thousand of an expat. The thing is that now they need to cover the huge hole they have, because many captains left the company already after knowing these plans, and as they didn't expect that this could happen, now they have a huge problem, and they need everything... Good luck!!

Thanks, i will resign tomorrow on your advice.....

The truth of contract work is you are temporary. You are only as good as your last pay check. The expats may be thinned out gradually, and if and when this happens, you can make your own assesment on time and risk management. Your ranting is just tiresome, and a bit insulting as i and most of the guys here are fully aware of what being a contractor means. I will be here until i feel its time to go.

[ia1166]

Thanks for the warning - appreciate it

I have been here as a tre for 14 years. Just cruising along.

Talk to the horses mouth, not the back end. If you get my drift.

[Yesse]

I have been here as a tre for 14 years. Just cruising along.

Talk to the horses mouth, not the back end. If you get my drift.


I am wondering how much is paying VNA for your words here. I could demonstrate that, if you are flying A321, you will be fired within 2 years, maybe earlier. The VNA from 14 years ago, is not the same VNA of today. Try to help your colleagues who are trying to make the biggest mistake of their lives, thinking that VNA still the same than 14 years ago. And all cases, not only one, starting from the SFO, were unfair and with no reasons. Just 60 days notice after 1,5 years working ( with the famous 5 years contract ). So they do what they want, when they want. If you want to encourage some colleague to come to this place with these future expectations, i think you are blind, or having an extra pay to clean the dirty clothes of your beloved company. About me, yes, as Captain i have same options than you, but i still have time, so i am looking for the best option, and i have a few already, so within one year or just a few days-months i will be far away from this place. Good luck for you, with your point of view, you will need.

[Sunliner81]

What part of being a contract pilot do you guys not understand? If the contract says 'you can be terminated with 60 days notice, if your services are no longer required', and you guys sign the bloody contract, why are you crying foul when it happens? Besides, you can go anywhere with a current 320 rating, so what's the big deal? You must actually like flying and living in Vietnam if your getting so upset about being 'fired' with 60 days notice. You cannot come to Vietnam expecting a 15 year career stint (although this has happened for many) when you sign a contract for 5 years with a 60 day termination clause. This 60 day termination clause gives the airline the flexibility to get rid of you should they not need you, and as more and more locals come online - rightly so, it's their airline. Ride the wave while it lasts, enjoy it, when it stops, move on.

[Yesse]

What part of being a contract pilot do you guys not understand? If the contract says 'you can be terminated with 60 days notice, if your services are no longer required', and you guys sign the bloody contract, why are you crying foul when it happens? Besides, you can go anywhere with a current 320 rating, so what's the big deal? You must actually like flying and living in Vietnam if your getting so upset about being 'fired' with 60 days notice. You cannot come to Vietnam expecting a 15 year career stint (although this has happened for many) when you sign a contract for 5 years with a 60 day termination clause. This 60 day termination clause gives the airline the flexibility to get rid of you should they not need you, and as more and more locals come online - rightly so, it's their airline. Ride the wave while it lasts, enjoy it, when it stops, move on.

Exactly, that’s the point. The 60 days notice. They used this clause with the expat SFO, and they will do the same with the expat Captains, LTC, TRI and TRE within the next 2 years... Almost 500 new cadets joining now... And many local Captains waiting for some kind of upgrade... and more Local FO waiting for the Upgrade... What do u think that will happen with you?? Do u think they will let you continue for another 14 years?? Probably, if you renew your contract recently, you will not reach the 5 years of your contract... And that’s why we are try to prevent to other colleagues to join this company... Yes, they can do what they want, is their airline, and they will not give one **** for you. Many A320 jobs, yes, but you don’t have nothing for sure buddy. This is what is happening now. Expat pilots being fired using this clause of the 60 days notice. You can’t say this is a lie, right??? That’s why we want to prevent everybody about this contract, with this company. For short time... Maybe one year, ok, but don’t planify much more... Then find another place and another company... And about living in VN... The only one good point is that you can save a lot of money ( if you get used to the local living style ) or you can waste even much more than in your own country ( if you can’t get used to the local life style ). You can’t buy a car, first becauee has no sense... There are no roads ready for driving a car, and you are rounded all time for millions of motorbikes trying to pass first!! Maybe you can kill someone soon or later, if you drive a car in VN. And the taxes... You will pay 3 times the price of a normal car in Europe. So, where is the good point of living in Vietnam? There is NOTHING. Just the commuting contract, because you can scape from here often. Ah, i forgot, as the only one good point in this country... The girls, ok, i agree with that... This is a huge cheap candy store. So, having this in mind, sorry... I can’t recommend to any of my friendd or colleagues to leave their actual companies for something like this. Good luck you all!!

[Sunliner81]

I agree with you with regards to your advice for pilots who are considering a long term career at VN. The outlook is not very good. In the past it was good in terms of longevity, but nothing last forever. Remember, not everyone is looking for a long term thing and I believe there is still a few years left in it for captains. In saying this, you would be pretty foolish as an expat in any foreign country to expect longevity as a pilot on contract.

And about living in VN... The only one good point is that you can save a lot of money ( if you get used to the local living style ) or you can waste even much more than in your own country ( if you can’t get used to the local life style ). You can’t buy a car, first becauee has no sense... There are no roads ready for driving a car, and you are rounded all time for millions of motorbikes trying to pass first!! Maybe you can kill someone soon or later, if you drive a car in VN. And the taxes... You will pay 3 times the price of a normal car in Europe. So, where is the good point of living in Vietnam? There is NOTHING. Just the commuting contract, because you can escape from here often. Ah, i forgot, as the only one good point in this country... The girls, ok, i agree with that... This is a huge cheap candy store. So, having this in mind, sorry... I can’t recommend to any of my friends or colleagues to leave their actual companies for something like this.

Who the hell needs or wants a car in Vietnam?? The pay is good, the commute is good. What else do you expect or want from a S/E Asian nation? Where else do you think is better for an expat with regards to lifestyle? China? Africa, Middle East? If you can't be satisfied in Vietnam, you will probably never be satisfied anywhere. Probably best to go home my friend, or are you unhappy there too?

[Yesse]

I agree with you with regards to your advice for pilots who are considering a long term career at VN. The outlook is not very good. In the past it was good in terms of longevity, but nothing last forever. Remember, not everyone is looking for a long term thing and I believe there is still a few years left in it for captains. In saying this, you would be pretty foolish as an expat in any foreign country to expect longevity as a pilot on contract.



Who the hell needs or wants a car in Vietnam?? The pay is good, the commute is good. What else do you expect or want from a S/E Asian nation? Where else do you think is better for an expat with regards to lifestyle? China? Africa, Middle East? If you can't be satisfied in Vietnam, you will probably never be satisfied anywhere. Probably best to go home my friend, or are you unhappy there too?

Many people love to drive cars everywhere. But here is impossible... No rules, and of course, no respect anywhere. Easy to find a huge bus invading ur lane, and flashing lights, asking you to abandon your lane for him to pass. The red lights are ignored also, and many many other things... Just like 9 million people driving on the street same as 4 years old kids with bicicles in the park, same rules. Examples better than VN? Where the streets are clean, and at least there is more order for living, which finally means a better quallity of life... Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia and yes, even China. You fly to China anyway with VNA, but flying in a chinese airline, at least they will give you always more priority than VNA. So, better to fly in China than VNA under all points of view. The only one thing i would recomend is, for a short period of time, fly with VNA, leave before you are being fired shortly, gain experience in this side of the world, then your transition will be better and easier. VNA is very relaxed, because they still have not much idea about anything... They just pretend to know. So you will feel comfortable and relaxed. Then, go to another better place. So just consider VNA as a transition company, don’t think about any future here. I hope we agree with this now. Good luck.

[Sucram]

Any likelihood of 787 direct entry Captains in the near future?

[EagleA25]

Any likelihood of 787 direct entry Captains in the near future?

The chances are slim to none even though a lot of expats left that fleet and VNA lately; I wouldn't get my hopes up, nothing in VNA is for sure as an Expat... why would you want to come here anyways..?
Besides,

[HH Chan]

Isit true VNA offering Defo straight to command?

[EagleA25]

Isit true VNA offering Defo straight to command?

Nope... VNA is currently only upgrading a few Senior Expat FO's who's contract seems to have a clause (pay to fly/upgrade); and local Vietnamese FO's who have met the "new and improved" requierements...!

[wingdeagle]

Nope... VNA is currently only upgrading a few Senior Expat FO's who's contract seems to have a clause (pay to fly/upgrade); and local Vietnamese FO's who have met the "new and improved" requierements...!

"new and improved requirements" ? This means one additional year or two of sleeping on the job or playing candy crush ? :rolleyes::ugh::ok:

[EagleA25]

"new and improved requirements" ? This means one additional year or two of sleeping on the job or playing candy crush ? :rolleyes::ugh::ok:

Nahh, it means that due to the Off-Road incident in Hanoi a few months ago the Insurance Company has increased the premiums for FO's upgrading with less than 5000hrs Total Time and 32 years of age (I was told that number by a few FO's). Those seem to be the new requierements...
The direction of the company though is still very vague and seems to change as often as they update the edocs; notable new procedures are in place though: Pilots are now signing Maintenance releases in certain Airports in the A321 fleet; this will increase the responsability and workload; niw you will be blamed for something a Technitian was trained for years to detects and understand; you will, oficially, get 16 hours of hands on quality training!

Long time Expats belive the "happy times" are over: most Expat Captains are already complaining about flying almost to the permissible limit of 100 hours, and short notice schedule changes are now frequent. All Standbys are activated due to lack of pilots in all fleets.
Also, the FOM just changed the "respect your day off" clause; your day off can now always be your "day on"; supposedly ots negotiable, but when you know you'll always pull a short straw, what's to negotiate.
In general the work ambience, at least on the Airbus Fleet here in SGN, has lost a LOT of quality...!
Fun fact though: the more they expand, the more they fly, the more discontent pilots will be, the less pilots will want to join or stick around, the more you get to fly if you stick around, especially on your days off; its a vicious circle. And pay has been the same for Expats for quite some time...
One comment I heared also was that VNA had a lot of complaints from local FO's about ex-S7 Pilots; apparently there are a lot of cultural issues and VNA won't recruit nor renew those Captains contracts. Again, all rumors I hear from local FO's; I don't stick around at the local water holes socializing a lot; with angry wife and two kids things are not as harmonic at home as they could be...
The few Western Expats who are willing to take the new rules are keeping a close eye on things and it appears things are getting worse each month.
Good luck out there

[wingdeagle]

Nahh, it means that due to the Off-Road incident in Hanoi a few months ago the Insurance Company has increased the premiums for FO's upgrading with less than 5000hrs Total Time and 32 years of age (I was told that number by a few FO's). Those seem to be the new requierements...
The direction of the company though is still very vague and seems to change as often as they update the edocs; notable new procedures are in place though: Pilots are now signing Maintenance releases in certain Airports in the A321 fleet; this will increase the responsability and workload; niw you will be blamed for something a Technitian was trained for years to detects and understand; you will, oficially, get 16 hours of hands on quality training!

Long time Expats belive the "happy times" are over: most Expat Captains are already complaining about flying almost to the permissible limit of 100 hours, and short notice schedule changes are now frequent. All Standbys are activated due to lack of pilots in all fleets.
Also, the FOM just changed the "respect your day off" clause; your day off can now always be your "day on"; supposedly ots negotiable, but when you know you'll always pull a short straw, what's to negotiate.
In general the work ambience, at least on the Airbus Fleet here in SGN, has lost a LOT of quality...!
Fun fact though: the more they expand, the more they fly, the more discontent pilots will be, the less pilots will want to join or stick around, the more you get to fly if you stick around, especially on your days off; its a vicious circle. And pay has been the same for Expats for quite some time...
One comment I heared also was that VNA had a lot of complaints from local FO's about ex-S7 Pilots; apparently there are a lot of cultural issues and VNA won't recruit nor renew those Captains contracts. Again, all rumors I hear from local FO's; I don't stick around at the local water holes socializing a lot; with angry wife and two kids things are not as harmonic at home as they could be...
The few Western Expats who are willing to take the new rules are keeping a close eye on things and it appears things are getting worse each month.
Good luck out there

So far for the wishful thinking of getting rid of all expats, like some on this board have been "warning". With a substandard contract (pay and benefits well below most Asian contracts) I wonder how much longer they will be able to fill the seats with expats. Through all these years VNA somehow always managed to get a group of pilots agreeing to work for substandard wages and working conditions. Now that the "happy days" have come to a close and the market is drying up, it will be interesting to watch how it all will keep unfolding.
Pilots signing off on maintenance releases is a liability and could be a career braker. Surprised guys agree to this.

[walterdiba]

Hi guys, do you know if there are any Italian pilots in VNA? I would like to talk with an Italian to understand his experience with VNA

[EagleA25]

Hi guys, do you know if there are any Italian pilots in VNA? I would like to talk with an Italian to understand his experience with VNA

Hmmm, I met a few Italian FO’s here in the past; but the few I met already moved on to Wizz or other adventures; actually, quite a few of the Expat FO’s that were let go this year were Italians, thinking of it...

[ia1166]

You wont get a decent pizza here.

[ia1166]

Many people love to drive cars everywhere. But here is impossible... No rules, and of course, no respect anywhere. Easy to find a huge bus invading ur lane, and flashing lights, asking you to abandon your lane for him to pass. The red lights are ignored also, and many many other things... Just like 9 million people driving on the street same as 4 years old kids with bicicles in the park, same rules. Examples better than VN? Where the streets are clean, and at least there is more order for living, which finally means a better quallity of life... Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia and yes, even China. You fly to China anyway with VNA, but flying in a chinese airline, at least they will give you always more priority than VNA. So, better to fly in China than VNA under all points of view. The only one thing i would recomend is, for a short period of time, fly with VNA, leave before you are being fired shortly, gain experience in this side of the world, then your transition will be better and easier. VNA is very relaxed, because they still have not much idea about anything... They just pretend to know. So you will feel comfortable and relaxed. Then, go to another better place. So just consider VNA as a transition company, don’t think about any future here. I hope we agree with this now. Good luck.


Why would someone who lists driving cars as a hobby or interest consider a job in Vietnam?

Unbelivable what some people complain about. I love hunting, sailing, skiing, and trekking. 6 and 3 gives me ample time to pursue these things. I am not here to pursue my pastimes, but to allow me enough time off to do them.

For that this job gives me exactly what i need from work. Time off to enjoy life.

[EagleA25]

You wont get a decent pizza here.

Classic 🤦🏼*♂️😁

[ia1166]

Classic 🤦🏼*♂️😁


Xmas in paradise eagle?

[iggy]

You wont get a decent pizza here.

4P's, either SGN or HAN. Amazing pizza, said by 99.999% of the Italians I've met here.

[walterdiba]

It's not a matter of pizza I would like to talk with an Italian about the life in Ho Chi Minh city, I'm not a pilot I'm an engineer

[pezetaroi]

Got the mail about the 350? Great deal isn’t it? 35K + 20K bond, sweet ...

[EagleA25]

Got the mail about the 350? Great deal isn’t it? 35K + 20K bond, sweet ...

Please remember that it will be a “For Vietnam Airlines Only” Type... 🤦🏼*♂️
Also, it seems that some sort of seniority system is in place (first to pay 7-10k under the table to the fleet chief will be “considered”)...
Word of wisdom: If you wish to do your initial A350 with quality, do it NOW; you’ll be trained by pro’s in France; don’t wait until the Type is trained in Saigon with local instructors...

[AirbuzHamster]

Hi guys!!

Wow!! What a lot of pages to go through and what a lot of different stories!!

So how is it really now and the next 5 years??!!

I am a ‘settled’ Cpt A320c in Europe and considering a move into Asia and therefor contracting pilot.
(Due to wife needing a tropical climat physically and also looking for a new challenge myself as I am getting bored with the job here).

Any Dutch guys out here??

Thanks everyone already for more up2date experiences and looking forward for advise and info!! (Good or if bad, advise to where to go instead)!

[duyen]

Jeez if you don’t wanna kill yourself, don’t come. Roster on the 320 is getting tougher by the day. No mercy on your standbys and schedule changes almost everyday either by retime or different sectors. The Chinese charters will be increasing in the near future. If you’re gonna be doing Chinese sectors, you might as well be flying for the Chinese for double the pay. Not worth the effort here. Guys are leaving on a monthly basis. And the fat bitch in the roster will keep on changing your vacations because they don’t enough people.

[EagleA25]

Hi guys!!

Wow!! What a lot of pages to go through and what a lot of different stories!!

So how is it really now and the next 5 years??!!

I am a ‘settled’ Cpt A320c in Europe and considering a move into Asia and therefor contracting pilot.
(Due to wife needing a tropical climat physically and also looking for a new challenge myself as I am getting bored with the job here).

Any Dutch guys out here??

Thanks everyone already for more up2date experiences and looking forward for advise and info!! (Good or if bad, advise to where to go instead)!
If you’re interested in full time, living year round, I’d suggest VietJet or JetStar, I hear they pay a lot better than VNA; VNA has a few better schedule perks, they will ship you confirmed on your vacation to Europe; but that is about it.
VNA will bond you for one month salary if you intent to leave early, but the training they give is a almost joke; can’t comment on VJ and JS.
Looking into the crystal ball: overall a lot of Expats are not happy with what they see; there is a fairly big demand for Captains in the A321, upgrade to Line Training Pilot will be very quick (if you volunteer, something a lot don’t want as it’s high risk and only $800 more) but VNA is not interested in increasing the pay, so you’ll be flying with quite a few interesting characters...
Another note: You could also become one of the A350 carrot chasers... 🤦🏼*♂️

[pezetaroi]

Hi guys!!

Wow!! What a lot of pages to go through and what a lot of different stories!!

So how is it really now and the next 5 years??!!!

The Good
-Out of the three options in Vietnam, VNA is probably the best overall
-Good chances of getting your 5 year contract respected
-Working atmosphere is quite relaxed, as long as you’re a “standard pilot” and follow SOPs, you’ll stay out of trouble
-Quite reasonable food served on every sector, so generally no need to worry about taking your lunch to work
-If your plan is to commute, they have decent working rosters available and a business seat on their network to catch a flight to wherever you’re heading to.
-If your base is Hanoi, and live in Tay Ho, a 25 minute -traffic free- ride on taxi or bus will get you to the airport.
-Vietnam is not cheap, but also not as expensive as other cities where we have options to work at
-Vietnam is safe -low crime rate- and with a proper mindset, also a cool place to live in
-Locals are generally nice guys to fly with, specially the recently released

The Bad
-Workload has increased lately. Safety Exterior Inspection, Preliminary Cockpit Inspection and Exterior Walkaround are always perfomed by CM1. Additional to that, checking/filling the logbook, signing multiple forms before flight, briefing the cabin crew and performing the emergency intercommunication system check adds to your cockpit preparation and briefing if you’re PF. Transit checks/refueling is now being implemented on various destinations, so you can also add that. Expect multiple change of aircrafts, so be prepared to do again everything mentioned above, once again on every change of aircraft. It gets to you, believe me...
-If weather is ****ty, you’ll do the flying, FOs are not allowed to do so when Xwind exceeds 15k and/or raining.
-FO’s practically only program the MCDU and fly when weather is CAVOK, Captains do everything else.
-If the weather is ****ty (again) you’ll also might have your last minute change of service. Local Captains don’t like to fly into wx and will call roster to fly anywhere else with better wx
-Unless you are wiling to pay 35k + a 20k bond, the upgrade to the 350 is out of the question
-Not the place to plan to be for more than 5 years, locals will eventually fill in the spots
-Pollution in Hanoi can get severe, traffic in Saigon is insane
-Out of the three options available in Vietnam, VNA is the lowest paid
-If you are considering moving with your family, bear in mind that schools are pretty expensive. One kid-ok, two-maybe, three, head to Qatar

The Ugly
-Weather in summer, it gets nasty, expect +TSRA everyday

My point of view, hope it helps... ;-)

[CaptainProp]

I just received email from Rishworth advertising for VN:

"Annual fee increase of 2% from the completion of 3 - 10 years’ service. "

That's a whopping 0.5% pay "increase" for the first 4 years in a country that's historically rarely had lower than 5% consumer price inflation.

Enjoy!

CP

[EagleA25]

I just received email from Rishworth advertising for VN:

"Annual fee increase of 2% from the completion of 3 - 10 years’ service. "

That's a whopping 0.5% pay "increase" for the first 4 years in a country that's historically rarely had lower than 5% consumer price inflation.

Enjoy!

CP

Yeah; it’s a joke... things here in Saigon are not cheap, nor is a live to live here by any standard; worse if you have kids; schooling is big business here and VERY expensive! And what colleagues are telling me is that Hanoi is already just as bad and Da Nang is even worse!

I agree with Pezet on almost everything that is in his cons but only a few things on his Pro’s and I would like to point out a few things: I’m sorry, but we do not trust the local FO’s; that’s why critical items are now Captains respinsabilities; they have demonstrated over and over that they are not capable of managing ADM, sound judgement or even basic flying skills! If you let them be PF, even on an easy day, be VERY aware that they can and will surprise you with some very weired stuff, and on top are VERY defensive when you try to tell them what they did wrong!
They also know very well that they have almost ZERO liability when flying with Expats. You are a completely burnable asset to management and their kids if it helps them to save face! And things are not getting better here!
This is a “do not report” culture; you are strongly discouraged, as i was explained by Instructors, to send any kind of inform to management, be it about safety issues or simply trying to protect your own back from repercussions of something someone else did. The office environment towards Expats is very different and the operating environment, when flying with Vietnamese Pilots, feels almost hostile as they do not appreciate you being here; they do make it clear that you should not be here...
The truth is: Many Western Expats were promised a lot more and are very disappointed and looking for greener pastures. Choose wisely if you consider coming to VNA!

[arigato]

Flying in Asia Pacific Region is simple. You have more advantage if you belong to an Asian culture in which you internalized from childhood that much respect is given to the "elders" or "patriarchal" type of organization. Much more to authority figures.

Try to be RACIST and DISRESPECT the LOCAL CULTURE and your name will be immediately submitted to CAA for your next License validation.

"If you are in Rome, do what the Romans do." Otherwise, do not attempt to go to Rome. Try to learn the history of Westerners who were booted out for this mistake due to arrogance and racist treatment of locals. You can learn a lot for there were many of them.

There are Western nationalities that are banned from joining reputable Asian Airlines due to long history of Racial Discrimination among Asians.

I hope that you are not among these Western nations coz' you still have a job at the moment. Or rather you already started to learn how to RESPECT.

Otherwise, you are also be leaving pretty much soon.

Just my two cents

[pippobaudo]

Maybe little off topic but......Dear Arigato, you are talking about “respect” of the Elders......”Patriarchal” society........is the same colture and attitude that lead to Airlines like Korean or similar to MUST have Expat pilots to be accepted to fly anywhere in the world? Colture that applied to a Cockpit lead to a situation where if the Captain is about to crash on a hill the FO rispectfully remain silent to respect the elder? (Again as far as I remeber Korean is a golden example).
Are you sure that we westerner are always racist when we complaying about something or we criticize something?
Are those “Elders” humble enough to accept and at least consider others opinion?
I don’t mean to attack you or criticize your colture (i spent many years in middle east and my wife is asian) and I also know that many times many of our collegues have BIG ego problems pretending to be the best and to teach everything to everybody but sometimes it seems that you guys are STUCK in your point of view/colture/tradition and who came with a different mindset is just “racist”......that's it!
If you go in Rome do as the Romans for sure, but if the Romans needs you they must be open to at least understand you!
Is a mutual agreement.....
Just my consideration......
Cheers

[pezetaroi]

Just got an email from an agency; Vietjet on 6x2, 3x1 roster, up to 14k, you’ll never make that amount here...

[ia1166]

You wont make it there either. Unless you pay rostering for the good earning flights and fly max hours and duty and take all the roster disruption.

You also have to pay for your own tickets home. We get free upgradeable tickets. Add up what thats worth.

Also on a 2 week off month you will get a very small salary. Look at the overall year.

[pezetaroi]

And definitely you gotta fly your ass off to earn those 14k...

[EagleA25]

Maybe little off topic but......Dear Arigato, you are talking about “respect” of the Elders......”Patriarchal” society........is the same colture and attitude that lead to Airlines like Korean or similar to MUST have Expat pilots to be accepted to fly anywhere in the world? Colture that applied to a Cockpit lead to a situation where if the Captain is about to crash on a hill the FO rispectfully remain silent to respect the elder? (Again as far as I remeber Korean is a golden example).
Are you sure that we westerner are always racist when we complaying about something or we criticize something?
Are those “Elders” humble enough to accept and at least consider others opinion?
I don’t mean to attack you or criticize your colture (i spent many years in middle east and my wife is asian) and I also know that many times many of our collegues have BIG ego problems pretending to be the best and to teach everything to everybody but sometimes it seems that you guys are STUCK in your point of view/colture/tradition and who came with a different mindset is just “racist”......that's it!
If you go in Rome do as the Romans for sure, but if the Romans needs you they must be open to at least understand you!
Is a mutual agreement.....
Just my consideration......
Cheers
How did this become a racial and respect discussion?

[EagleA25]

And definitely you gotta fly your ass off to earn those 14k...

I was going to reply to this as well; beware of this VietJet add; I know of quite a few Expats who are actually trying to leave VJ for VNA. The guys upstairs are actually quite right about a few things: VNA has its perks in comparison to VJ and JS.

[pippobaudo]

Dear EAgle, no worries. I don’t mean turn this into a racial discussion, mine was just an observation about what Arigato wrote....

[MajorLemond]

It's generally well known how the bottomfeeders at VJ make those 14k paychecks on some months...:rolleyes:

All of the airlines mentioned are more or less tarred with the same brush (from a local management perspective) and unfortunately if you want to fly in Vietnam the reality is that you just have to play their game.

You WILL pay somebody something for a job / promotion etc... Cash is preferred.

As far as Asia is concerned it's actually not a bad place to live. Most things are pretty accessible (western food / internet etc) and The locals are generally really nice, peaceful people. :ok:

[CM1A320]

How to survive the pilots chain smoking on Vietnam Airlines cockpits?
brand new A350s cockpit ruined, and can be smelled from business class the entire flight.

[ikon757]

well it looks like things are headed for betterment..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-07/boeing-working-with-u-s-to-lift-vietnam-s-air-safety-rating/

[ni si ni no]

The Bad
-Workload has increased lately. Safety Exterior Inspection, Preliminary Cockpit Inspection and Exterior Walkaround are always perfomed by CM1. Additional to that, checking/filling the logbook, signing multiple forms before flight, briefing the cabin crew and performing the emergency intercommunication system check adds to your cockpit preparation and briefing if you’re PF. Transit checks/refueling is now being implemented on various destinations, so you can also add that. Expect multiple change of aircrafts, so be prepared to do again everything mentioned above, once again on every change of aircraft. It gets to you, believe me...
-If weather is ****ty, you’ll do the flying, FOs are not allowed to do so when Xwind exceeds 15k and/or raining.
-FO’s practically only program the MCDU and fly when weather is CAVOK, Captains do everything else.
-If the weather is ****ty (again) you’ll also might have your last minute change of service. Local Captains don’t like to fly into wx and will call roster to fly anywhere else with better wx
-Unless you are wiling to pay 35k + a 20k bond, the upgrade to the 350 is out of the question
-Not the place to plan to be for more than 5 years, locals will eventually fill in the spots
-Pollution in Hanoi can get severe, traffic in Saigon is insane
-Out of the three options available in Vietnam, VNA is the lowest paid
-If you are considering moving with your family, bear in mind that schools are pretty expensive. One kid-ok, two-maybe, three, head to Qatar

The Ugly
-Weather in summer, it gets nasty, expect +TSRA everyday

My point of view, hope it helps... ;-)

Some things never change do they? Had a blast during 7 years.... But I must agree it gets to you. Left a while ago now and miss the country but no really the airline. Its a bitter taste tbh.

[yellowcontrails]

Seriously how desperate are you people?

[EagleA25]

Seriously how desperate are you people?

What do you mean...?

[EagleA25]

So; I was told a large number of local pilots went to see management two months ago and threatened to leave for greener pastures; in the meeting the company offered a pay increase of $45; and supposedly now they are happy 🤣...

I find that hilarious...

[arigato]

That is good enough to hold them back temporarily at US $45.00/hour. Like anybody else, nothing is permanent and they are qualified to find a "better fit" somewhere else especially in Vietnam with a booming Aviation Industry.

[ia1166]

You can tell the quality by the caav request that we please land on the correct runway recently.

Maybe a small bonus for correct runway landing would be a good idea. Along with a tech log signing payment.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Have the locals just had a $45 / hour pay rise? Really?

[BAe 146-100]

So; I was told a large number of local pilots went to see management two months ago and threatened to leave for greener pastures

Threaten to leave to where.... Vietjet ??

I am sure they can go many places with their CAAV lisence that belongs to Vietnam airlines... yes give me a break

[bringbackthe80s]

They are advertising for A350 captains now.

[Slarberg]

New Tail Strike due to New Low hours FO!!!

Accident: Vietnam A321 at Hanoi on Apr 1st 2018, tail strike on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4b6e5c30&opt=0)

[Cak]

Low hour FO should be no problem. He needs to learn. Problem in VNA is that there is almost nobody (except few expat instructors and maybe just 3 or 4 local instructors) to give that FO a proper training

[EagleA25]

New Tail Strike due to New Low hours FO!!!

Accident: Vietnam A321 at Hanoi on Apr 1st 2018, tail strike on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4b6e5c30&opt=0)

I’m sorry, but... I just can’t stop laughing...

One comment on the AvHerald page is SPOT ON: it IS the company and their superior over-lord leaders!
Well, they tried saving peanuts and it will cost them Elephants!

[VietJetPilot]

Well, yesterday the company sent out its monthly Fleet Bulletin, or what I like to call, it’s very own “freak-show-summary”.
As a result of the incident ALL flight ops, including training flights, are allowed using A/T on, except of course when A/T is not available due to MEL; then their “safety conscience” is not as important as on-time-performance. So, when the risk is requiered, it is allowed, but in normal operation a student, Captain or First Officer, are not getting the training requiered.
As this cost the job of an Expat Instructor who not only has been teaching at VNA for a VERY long time but I also highly respect for his skills as a mentor and teacher, I am especially disappointed in the managers as they are supposed to support their Instructors in cases like that and investigate what went wrong, not just apply blame, for it not happen again!
My question: who was the Sim-Instructor that signed the local First Officer off for line Training? Was he also fired? (I am saying HE because Vietnam has NO female instructors in aviation!).
Why was the severe lack of Manual flying skills not addressed at THAT stage already? Was it because he is the son of a management pilot (again)? Is it still ethically and culturally not right to critique a student early enough in training BEFORE he/she becomes a threat?
My point is, there is a SERIOUS problem with managing bad apples in this company, especially the local ones, but you, as an Expat, responsible for everything, are to sit quietly as this is not supposed to concern you!
As someone here said before, it’s a corrupt circus that won’t change... :(

[wingdeagle]

Well, yesterday the company sent out its monthly Fleet Bulletin, or what I like to call, it’s very own “freak-show-summary”.
As a result of the incident ALL flight ops, including training flights, are allowed using A/T on, except of course when A/T is not available due to MEL; then their “safety conscience” is not as important as on-time-performance. So, when the risk is requiered, it is allowed, but in normal operation a student, Captain or First Officer, are not getting the training requiered.
As this cost the job of an Expat Instructor who not only has been teaching at VNA for a VERY long time but I also highly respect for his skills as a mentor and teacher, I am especially disappointed in the managers as they are supposed to support their Instructors in cases like that and investigate what went wrong, not just apply blame, for it not happen again!
My question: who was the Sim-Instructor that signed the local First Officer off for line Training? Was he also fired? (I am saying HE because Vietnam has NO female instructors in aviation!).
Why was the severe lack of Manual flying skills not addressed at THAT stage already? Was it because he is the son of a management pilot (again)? Is it still ethically and culturally not right to critique a student early enough in training BEFORE he/she becomes a threat?
My point is, there is a SERIOUS problem with managing bad apples in this company, especially the local ones, but you, as an Expat, responsible for everything, are to sit quietly as this is not supposed to concern you!
As someone here said before, it’s a corrupt circus that won’t change... :(

Save face, save face, save face !!! Your questions answered, Vietjetpilot ? Save face above safety, ok ?

[ia1166]

Has the TRE lost his job?

Is that confirmed?

[VietJetPilot]

Has the TRE lost his job?

Is that confirmed?

He’s suspended by CAAV for now; broker expects him to “just be downgraded” to Captain, but I wouldn’t hold my breath...

[ia1166]

There is a lesson for all ex pat captains in there.

[wingdeagle]

There is a lesson for all ex pat captains in there.

And which lesson is that, aa1166 if you don't mind sharing ?

[EagleA25]

And which lesson is that, aa1166 if you don't mind sharing ?

What aa means it that you should start looking for greener pastures and take VNA as your last resort, if it is the last you have.
I agree with him, it is NOT a safe place to fly, and you need to have either a good lawyer or a thick skin here. And if you have thoughts about making this a career, it’s not a place to stay!
I hear somewhere they will change Fleet Managers (again); so everything will be happy-happy again, right?
The definition of insanity comes to mind...

I kinda feel for Cap. Son here; he’s good hearted but they put him in a crap position.
If you accept Instructor here, you WILL have political pressure to pass the sons of the management pilots, no matter how incompetent they are!

[ia1166]

What aa means it that you should start looking for greener pastures and take VNA as your last resort, if it is the last you have.
I agree with him, it is NOT a safe place to fly, and you need to have either a good lawyer or a thick skin here. And if you have thoughts about making this a career, it’s not a place to stay!
I hear somewhere they will change Fleet Managers (again); so everything will be happy-happy again, right?
The definition of insanity comes to mind...

I kinda feel for Cap. Son here; he’s good hearted but they put him in a crap position.
If you accept Instructor here, you WILL have political pressure to pass the sons of the management pilots, no matter how incompetent they are!

I was alluding more to follow the sop strictly. As is stated in many many fsrs that are issued by the company.

Read the sop and apply it. Why fly ap athr off. That is what the sim is for. I dont agree with practicing abnormal procedures in the real aircraft is the way forward, so i dont. Never have, never will. Unless required by training.

Use apprpriate automation at all times. Its there in writing. If you take everything off, then prang it, you may be poorly placed.

[ia1166]

I was alluding more to follow the sop strictly. As is stated in many many fsrs that are issued by the company. Also as captain you are tesponsible. As i said before with the static port incident.

Read the sop and apply it. Why fly ap athr off. That is what the sim is for.

And take over early maybe.

I was not alluding to what you said.

[ia1166]

And take over early maybe.

I was not alluding to what you said.

Honestly, if this was the uk the captain would be responsible too. They had a tail strike, with structural damage. Questions would be asked. Same with the dragon air 330 a little while back. The captain is responsible for the safe conduct of flight. End of story. Everything else is just mitigating circumstance. So maybe stop throwing mud around.

[ia1166]

Well, yesterday the company sent out its monthly Fleet Bulletin, or what I like to call, it’s very own “freak-show-summary”.
As a result of the incident ALL flight ops, including training flights, are allowed using A/T on, except of course when A/T is not available due to MEL; then their “safety conscience” is not as important as on-time-performance. So, when the risk is requiered, it is allowed, but in normal operation a student, Captain or First Officer, are not getting the training requiered.
As this cost the job of an Expat Instructor who not only has been teaching at VNA for a VERY long time but I also highly respect for his skills as a mentor and teacher, I am especially disappointed in the managers as they are supposed to support their Instructors in cases like that and investigate what went wrong, not just apply blame, for it not happen again!
My question: who was the Sim-Instructor that signed the local First Officer off for line Training? Was he also fired? (I am saying HE because Vietnam has NO female instructors in aviation!).
Why was the severe lack of Manual flying skills not addressed at THAT stage already? Was it because he is the son of a management pilot (again)? Is it still ethically and culturally not right to critique a student early enough in training BEFORE he/she becomes a threat?
My point is, there is a SERIOUS problem with managing bad apples in this company, especially the local ones, but you, as an Expat, responsible for everything, are to sit quietly as this is not supposed to concern you!
As someone here said before, it’s a corrupt circus that won’t change... :(


Actually the fcom states use appropriate automation at all times. Fd athr off is a required item in the opc/lpc. You can have 1 resit under caav regulations to fly this within perscribed limits. If you cant, you fail the sim and need additional sim training to correct.

The procedures are in place to train and correct in the sim. Not the aircraft.

Additionally, if you had an abnormal in the real aircraft that required manual flight, i would assume the skipper would take control and fly it, as the most experienced pilot. So the fo would not need to do this anyway. Thats why they are the fo. Low experience. Once they are experienced and have a demonstrated high ability, they get promoted. Thats the whole concept.

[EagleA25]

Actually the fcom states use appropriate automation at all times. Fd athr off is a required item in the opc/lpc. You can have 1 resit under caav regulations to fly this within perscribed limits. If you cant, you fail the sim and need additional sim training to correct.

The procedures are in place to train and correct in the sim. Not the aircraft.

Additionally, if you had an abnormal in the real aircraft that required manual flight, i would assume the skipper would take control and fly it, as the most experienced pilot. So the fo would not need to do this anyway. Thats why they are the fo. Low experience. Once they are experienced and have a demonstrated high ability, they get promoted. Thats the whole concept.

I might not quite get the part about the concept; in the Sim, manual flying, yes, Airplane, no; so if the A/T is inop, I should fly myself all day, or better, just reject the plane? I mean, worst thing in Sim I could bump my head, right? In real life... my job?
So, if we are at the whole “need everything” concept, why are we flying into Tuy Hoa without Papi, approach or Runway lighting?
And since we are on following SOP’s “strictly”, very few follow Flaps 3, idle reverse and packs off T/O’s... I know because I keep getting weired looks on my FO’s faces when I do it, just like when I do one-Engine Taxi-in and -out... any comments on that?

[EagleA25]

On a different note: anyone hear anything about the two engine puff-puff from Vietjet in Da Nang?

[ia1166]

I might not quite get the part about the concept; in the Sim, manual flying, yes, Airplane, no; so if the A/T is inop, I should fly myself all day, or better, just reject the plane? I mean, worst thing in Sim I could bump my head, right? In real life... my job?
So, if we are at the whole “need everything” concept, why are we flying into Tuy Hoa without Papi, approach or Runway lighting?
And since we are on following SOP’s “strictly”, very few follow Flaps 3, idle reverse and packs off T/O’s... I know because I keep getting weired looks on my FO’s faces when I do it, just like when I do one-Engine Taxi-in and -out... any comments on that?

Sure. flaps 3 pax off single engine taxi. All allowed under FCOM. All in VN airline specific sops. All at Captains discretion. Reverse use is covered under SOP. All at captains discretion. Personally i try not to do any of them unless there really is good reason for it. Life is hard enough when flying with cadets.

ATHR is recommended for all phases of flight. FCOM. No airline specific sop allowing captains to take it out to practice an abnormal situation. It was under training flight, but this was not a training flight. And its not now sadly. To me practicing an FCOM ABNORMAL in the real aircraft just doesn't make any sense. Anyway as a Captain you should be able to operate without ATHr as you should have the experience and ability. With FD and AP how hard can it be????

ATHR INOP is permitted under MEL. But NO AP, NO FD, NO ATHR would come under multiple associated MEL entries and would be a no dispatch condition. And i wouldn't be too keen to fly ATH INOP for more than 1 sector to recover to main base, and would then ask for another aircraft. Flying with it all off by choice is not permitted under FCOM, and is putting the aircraft in a NO DISPATCH condition. Do so and prang it? As the Captain you will be held accountable for sure. Anywhere in the world. Sorry but thats the case here.

As i said, there is a proper approved procedure in the LPC/OPC requirements to practice this condition. Under supervised and recorded conditions. There is a section on day1 for extra training at the discretion of the instructor. You should ask for extra training if you want some. It will be noted on the form and some other items will be marked as not flown due extra training given. On check day you will need to perform to required limits, or a resit or extra training will be noted.

There is no requirement to practice in the real aircraft.

I have never had anybody ask me for a some practice athr/fd off in the sim. Why not? Its easy to do and the best place to do it.

[ia1166]

What aa means it that you should start looking for greener pastures and take VNA as your last resort, if it is the last you have.
I agree with him, it is NOT a safe place to fly, and you need to have either a good lawyer or a thick skin here. And if you have thoughts about making this a career, it’s not a place to stay!
I hear somewhere they will change Fleet Managers (again); so everything will be happy-happy again, right?
The definition of insanity comes to mind...

I kinda feel for Cap. Son here; he’s good hearted but they put him in a crap position.
If you accept Instructor here, you WILL have political pressure to pass the sons of the management pilots, no matter how incompetent they are!

I have never been asked to pass someone. EVER. In over 14 years. Nor has anyone i know. EVER.

If i fail people, which i do, it has never been questioned.

[bigbird]

I have to agree with all you said 1186. But I suspect it's all sorted by rostering before you get the candidate.
They roster the right TRE.......
Or if one of the favored one's find you on their training roster they "suddenly" go sick?

[Arewerunning]

No auto thrust against FCOM? Hey dude, you
Must be smoking. I changed a couple of outfits in Europe recently and they all fly autopilot off / auto trust off...every single flight. Appropriate use of automations means...appropriate. Sure. flaps 3 pax off single engine taxi. All allowed under FCOM. All in VN airline specific sops. All at Captains discretion. Reverse use is covered under SOP. All at captains discretion. Personally i try not to do any of them unless there really is good reason for it. Life is hard enough when flying with cadets.

ATHR is recommended for all phases of flight. FCOM. No airline specific sop allowing captains to take it out to practice an abnormal situation. It was under training flight, but this was not a training flight. And its not now sadly. Not that i do it anyway. EVER. To me practicing an FCOM ABNORMAL in the real aircraft just doesn't make any sense. Anyway as a Captain you should be able to operate without ATHr as you should have the experience and ability. With FD and AP how hard can it be????

ATHR INOP is permitted under MEL. But NO AP, NO FD, NO ATHR would come under multiple associated MEL entries and would be a no dispatch condition. And i wouldn't be too keen to fly ATH INOP for more than 1 sector to recover to main base, and would then ask for another aircraft. Flying with it all off by choice is not permitted under FCOM, and is putting the aircraft in a NO DISPATCH condition. Do so and prang it? As the Captain you will be held accountable for sure. Anywhere in the world. Sorry but thats the case here.

As i said, there is a proper approved procedure in the LPC/OPC requirements to practice this condition. Under supervised and recorded conditions. There is a section on day1 for extra training at the discretion of the instructor. You should ask for extra training if you want some. It will be noted on the form and some other items will be marked as not flown due extra training given. On check day you will need to perform to required limits, or a resit or extra training will be noted.

There is no requirement to practice in the real aircraft.

I have never had anybody ask me for a some practice athr/fd off in the sim. Why not? Its easy to do and the best place to do it.

[EagleA25]

No auto thrust against FCOM? Hey dude, you
Must be smoking. I changed a couple of outfits in Europe recently and they all fly autopilot off / auto trust off...every single flight. Appropriate use of automations means...appropriate.

I remember reading LH and German wings have as SOP at 1000 ft the ATHR going off, always...
So yeah; I’m also calling Bull**** 🤣

[EagleA25]

...
I have never had anybody ask me for a some practice athr/fd off in the sim. Why not? Its easy to do and the best place to do it.

Of course they don’t; everyone in VNA is scared ****tless of the Expat-Instructors, especially the locals; the idea of having to follow SOP while using good airmanship is a little too much for many, here...
then, at the same time, MY most uncomfortable check-rides we’re all with locals... they just make sure you know from the get-go that they have authority... sad, wired culture... 🤦🏼*♂️

[wingdeagle]

I remember reading LH and German wings have as SOP at 1000 ft the ATHR going off, always...
So yeah; I’m also calling Bull**** ��

Agree with Eagle. LH had three hard landings: two in Denver and one in Narita, which lead them to change the SOP and go manual thrust for landing.
I also understand, that at least United if not more US airlines follow the rule "autopilot off, ATHR off".
If one does not posses the basic skill of landing an airplane without auto thrust, than this person should consider another profession.

[VietJetPilot]

...
There is no requirement to practice in the real aircraft.
...

.

That is like the stupidest thing I’ve read all day...
Let’s just recall Asiana 214: can’t even do a VISUAL approach, let alone handfly... mixed with inadequate pride and cultural respect!

ia, all arguments I read from you are excuses for the laziness and inadecuacy to do your job properly; or is it simple fear to speak up? Has pleasing management become so much more important? In any form, you have become mediocre; and at least admit it to yourself!
The box will not solve critical thinking problems, it’s the attitude to being able to think outside said box, that will. But sure, keep up the good work; the definition of insanity is doing the same and expecting different results; and the frequency of severe events is increasing! And as Na Instructor, YOU are part of the system.
If this was SO bad, and the FO was properly trained, why was no go-around initiates by the FO? You see, any FO should be able to replace a Captain if nesesary and even though does not have the experience, should at least have the skills to; we OWE that much to our customers! But in this airline, the skill level on the line deteriorates and hand-flying is almost seen as a crime... thanks to laziness being the motivator!

[VietJetPilot]

Cat ate everyone’s tongue...?
Must have said something that either stung or was completely on target 🤦🏼*♂️

[squarecrow]

More like a winde up Troll. End of.

[pineteam]

Ia1166, what you say is scary and so wrong. I really hope you are trolling. You can’t be serious. You know you might have to fly in direct law in the real aircraft right? Happened in 2016 in my company.
Never praticsing raw data flights in the real aircraft is a recipe for disaster.
The fact you are saying you won’t accept to fly more than one sector with A/THR inop says it all. Surely it’s not ideal but would not be a problem if you were doing it in a regular basic. Noone can claim to be able to fly accurately an aircraft raw data by just training in the sim. Period.

[Sunliner81]

It may be SOP to use full automation whenever possible. Doesn’t mean you can’t have a practice at raw data every now and then. Just don’t F*CK it up when you do otherwise be prepared for BOTH crew to be called in because BOTH failed in their primary duties. Previous posts indicated unfair treatment to the Captain but at the end of the day he/she allowed the inexperienced FO to fly raw data and failed to correct when that FO went outside parameters. You are having a go at management for doing their jobs?

[EagleA25]

Well, it’s all over the News Channels... how the f**k did we manage this? Wrong Runway landing... great job!
Oh, please, explain how our superior training at VNA should have avoided this, because a Vice Minister of the Red Patty was on board... let’s see how we didn’t
follow SOP’s strictly this time...

[Ruzki]

in less tha 1 year sice almost all expat FO some of the ready for upgrade where gently sent home:
2 runway excursion
1 tail strike
1 landing on a close/underconstruction work
(stradars of black listed company)
is that a coincidence?
maybe
think about that