VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)

[NCO]

Rayleigh --- Dynamic --- 6 Test

Right - CMP,50 SR,05 to 95
AQ,19.0 B,15 to AQ,0.05 B,15

Left - CMP, 50 SR,04 to 96
AQ, 24.0 B,15 to AQ,0.04 B,15

Any help on these results will be greatly appreciated ....

[Sacky]

1. Can a person with Dichromat - Deuternanopia become a pilot? This means that the person is moderatley severe and one of the basic mechanism is absent. In this case because it is Deutermanopia, it is the Green pigment which is absent/missing.

It all depends on how well they do on the tests, but generally I'd say it's no go. I have Deuteranopia and I was refused a Class 1 Medical.

2. Can a person be Dichromat - and at the same time be part Deuteranopia and part Deuteronomaly ?

I don't think so... it is my understanding that Deuteranopia means the absence of a cone that reacts to green wavelengths of light, while Deuteranomaly is just the impairment of that cone. I suppose it's possible to have say Deuteranopia and Propanomaly, but that would be bizarrely rare.

[NCO]

Thanks guys

Im not getting my hopes up, but I will definitely get back to you guys after I have figured it all out.

2close :)

[danielm]

Hi guys,

I'm flying this sunday to Oklahoma City right to Wiley post airport where is located a center called LEFTSEAT how can help pilots with problems in the medical cert.; did anyone go to this place or know someone who went? i'll appreciate any help.
Best regards,

Daniel

[cottam approach]

Searched the whole thread but couldn't find anything.......

Does anyone know if a recurrent iritis/uveitis will prevent me from obtaining a Class 1? Haven't had an episode for about a year and vision is unaffected.

Regards,

CA

[cottam approach]

Hi guys. I am a recurrent iritis sufferer. Last episode was about a year ago, and am wondering if anyone knows CAA policy on this with regards to a class1 medical? (for ATC). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

CA

[cottam approach]

Perhaps my condition is more rare than I originally thought. Has nobody out there got any experience of this?

[terrain safe]

Well I have never had it, but my wife had a very severe episode a few years ago. Very painful and she went blind in one eye. After applying steroids every hour, day and night, for 3 weeks her sight returned. Very very nasty indeed. I would have thought that there is usually an underlying reason why it appears and this might be a reason why a medical may be difficult. Speak to medical branch and they will advise. It is also more commonly called anterior uveitis.

[woltgreat]

Hi guys,
I am in a very strange situation right now.
I hold an FAA CPL, an FAA Class 1 Medical and my prescription is the following:

Right Eye:
-7.00 dioptres, 0.25 astigmatism, 180° axis

Left Eye:
-6.00 dioptres, 0.50 astigmatism, 160° axis

As you can see my right eye is 1 dioptre out of the limit (-6.00 is the limit) but obviously within the revalidation standards, since there are no myopic limits anymore for the renewal (read on the JAA and CAA website, 100% and more sure).
I would like to try to get my JAA Class 1 in Gatwick, hoping they could make me fit applying what the CAR themselves say:


"ICAO Licence holders
Existing licence holders (i.e., a current valid licence equivalent to the medical certificate for which they are applying e.g. CPL or ATPL for class1, PPL for class 2) from other ICAO states with appropriate demonstrated experience applying for initial issue of a JAA medical certificate will be assessed to the JAA initial standard. Those who fall outside the initial standard, but within the revalidation standard and subject to satisfactory assessment and appropriate limitations, may be considered for a long-term deviation, which will then be transferred to their JAA licence, when issued."


I really don't care about the deviation, I just would like to have opinions about the chances I really have of sorting it out there in Gatwick.


I really, really appreciate any advice guys, provided you know what you're talking about!


Thanks!

Hi all,
nothing about this?
Come on, guys...I don't wanna think that nobody here has got the same problem of converting an FAA in a JAA being outside the JAA :mad: class 1 initial limits!:}

[pl6pilgrim]

Hi all,

I am currently the holder of a JAR Class 2 medical.

I am looking at doing my ATPL theory soon, but my eyesight is preventing me.

My refractive dioptres are within the -6/+5 limit at +0.50L/+2.25R.

However the visual acuity is slightly out in my right eye. The limits for this are at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 both eyes combined.

My left eye is 6/5 however my right eye is 6/10 after correction. Together my eyes are corrected to 6/5.

I am looking into the possibilities that I have and one of them is LASIK. However, the CAA says that some aspects do not allow you to undergo corrective surgery to get you within the limits. Does anyone know if this applies to the initial refractive error (-6/+5) alone, or the visual acuity as well?

Shaun

[HeathrowAirport]

Hi,

I was just reading the CAA medical website, vision section.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED-JARClass1InitialVisStds%5B2189%5D.pdf

It says taking into account any astigmatism.

So is that +5.00 with the astigmatism or without? So If i was 5.00+ and astigmatism was +2.00, totaled 7.00 or is it say 3.00+ Correction and 1.50+ astigmatism or something similar?

That bits very confusing, help would be appreaciated before I throw it at D&A.

Regards,

Robbie

[HeathrowAirport]

Hello,

I went to my Local Opticians and booked any eye test for wednesday (next avail) and I asked him if he could check my current perscription. So he looked at my glasses and one of them (Strongest Lens) was 5.25+ Diopters. and astigmatism was 0.75

However I was once under the NHS 7 years ago, but my eyesight improved under the drops and the patch, they since kicked me out because It was no longer needed. My eyes are improving and I am needing less stronger lenses.

I am improving and the opticians did say I wont need the glasses forever, apparently, they are improving and my vision is going to normal (Not longsighted) so the strength is dicreasing. Ill let you guys know what I get wednesday night.

So will the CAA allow me with that or can I kiss goodbye to a dream unless I loose 1.0 Diopter of correction? Also havent been in a year and these glasses need an upgrade me thinks.

I dont understand, If I can read up close, If I can see British Airways on the side of an aircraft were it is 4000ft above my house then why is there a restriction on how strong your glasses are? I understand thats its there for a reason, but what reason? Its sad but hey thats all thats stopping me getting my class 1 :(

I have also heard some go over the + limits and still get a License due other factors. I am not sure, but thats what I was told.

Regards,

R..

[AceSkyCaptain]

Hi Guys,

Have an history of Peripheral Retinal Hole very small one. will that affect my initial Class 1 medicals.


Regards,
AceSkyCaptain

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

As has been suggested on here many times..... why not bell SRG and ask them? That's the way to get the answer you are after.

[cottam approach]

Heathrow Director; I tried speaking to them about my eye condition (iritis) and they were unable to help me over the telephone. I was told to collate all my medical history and send it to them (am currently in the process of doing this but it is no mean feat) Understandable, i know, but in the meantime it's nice to put the feelers out, say on this forum, to see if anyone has any experience of said ailment/disease/condition.

[HeathrowAirport]

HD thanks, they have told me as also like cottam approach; to write to them due to confidentially.

Regards,

R..

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK guys. They're frequently very helpful indeed, as I know from personal experience.

[HeathrowAirport]

HD,

Yes they are, I replied back telling them so. I know being rude becuase they could not jump to me straight away wont get me anywere either. So I replied nicely.

I wonder if they take into account that my prescription is dropping and that the glasses will make my eyesight 20/20 0.00 correction almost. To pass me on a C1 on that basis. I do know a few that have had worse eyesight than me pass. 0.25 Diopters over(bad) and 1.25 Diopters under the astig max (good :))


Regardsm

Robbie

[HeathrowAirport]

Right Eye SPH:+5.00 CYL:0.50 AXIS:10 6/5
Left Eye SPH +6.00 CYL 0.75 AXIS 40 6/12
Both Eye S 6/5

With both eyes and right I am 20/20, with left I am 20/40

My Biggest let down is my lazy eye, maybe that dream job ever since I saw Concorde take off at Heathrow is now down the drain for both Private and Commercial :sad: and was just a dream. Everything is good apart from that correction on the left eye is 1.00 Diopter over :{ Just a question does anybody know anyone with more worse eyesight than me that flys? I will be sending that to the CAA medical as requested and let them decide my life forever.

Regards,

R..

[woltgreat]

Just a question does anybody know anyone with more worse eyesight than me that flys?

There is me!
I am currently completing my FAA multi addon in the US...and I have one eye with -7.00 of myopia (read the first post of this page).
I wrote to the guys of Gatwick explaining my situation, I hold an FAA class 1 and an FAA CPL and I am currently waiting for their reply via post cause I want to know if I am eligible for a restricted JAA class 1, that would be enough for me since I am gonna have eye surgery in a short time.

Don't stop dreaming, ask them if they would issue you a class 1 if you came back with an FAA class 1 + CPL...if so start packing your bag, find a school in the US and good luck!:)

[HeathrowAirport]

On another note its cheaper out there right?

And Ill wait and see what the CAA say, when did you send yours? If you dont mind me asking?

Will I pass an FAA medical on the Vision basis? And why is there such a high limit like -6 on the Diopters and a low limit on the + Diopters? Also the - Diopters shortsight you can get a retinal detachment, I wonder why with longsight theres a limit of 5 not 6.

Anyone know whom I can contact over there to find out?

Regards,

Robbie

[woltgreat]

On another note its cheaper out there right?

And Ill wait and see what the CAA say, when did you send yours? If you dont mind me asking?

Will I pass an FAA medical on the Vision basis? And why is there such a high limit like -6 on the Diopters and a low limit on the + Diopters? Also the - Diopters shortsight you can get a retinal detachment, I wonder why with longsight theres a limit of 5 not 6.

Anyone know whom I can contact over there to find out?

Regards,

Robbie

Hi,
don't worry, I don't mind you asking.
I sent them my prescription 9 days ago and I'll get a reply withing 2 weeks or less I guess. I really don't know why JAA put these stupid limits cutting the wings to a lot of people like us...I only know that there isn't an actual reason, JAA rules are not producing better results than the FAA ones, in the other side of the world a lot of people who wouldn't be fit in Europe fly and some of them are also captains able to ditch and aircraft without any fatalities...:rolleyes::}

I could fly a 777 in the US...and not even be able to get a class 1 in another place.
No answer...

[HeathrowAirport]

I mean I just cant get around that 1.00 Diopter will ruin everything I have worked hard for in school, work experience and stuff like that, and my targets and goals to be a pilot may go down the drain quicker than I thought.

I hope they give you a JAR Class 1.

So will the FAA allow me though? Or fail me, how can I found out for sure?

I am jumping to conclusions as the CAA mite let me off, I mean with them results they meet 95% of there requirements, nothing abnormal.. pressure and colorblindness was good. Only problem was the Correction the left eye was 1.00 Diopter over. I really really cant imagine me not flying a plane. I cant really see something I have set my eyes on will let me down.

1.00 Diopter.. :{GOD HELP ME! Such a small number aye?

Regards,

Robbie

[woltgreat]

Hey Robbie,
don't desperate, ok?...nothing is said.
I know what it feels like, I passed through the same, but UK is for all of us a light in the tunnel.

Look here the FAA requirements:

Federal Aviation Regulations / Part 67 / FAA Medical Certification (http://www.leftseat.com/far67.htm)

If you are in the requirements for class 1 I would suggest you to try this, cause they would probably issue you the JAA class 1 after the FAA CPL + FAA class 1.
Ask them everything, what they would do in that event, but 90% they will accept this route...and they aren't giving you nothing for free, everything it's written here, "ICAO License holders" section:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MedDeviationsPolicyJan07.pdf

Are you ok for the JAA renewal requirements, aren't you?
Don't lose your hopes, in the past I lost mine after a JAA examination that said "unfit" but I am still fighting for it, and I don't how why but at the end I found something able to give me hopes.
Anyway, if the rules don't change start considering having an eye surgery AFTER the JAA class 1, cause if they issue the medical with the long-term deviation the only way to remove it (if the regs don't change) is to have the surgery.
It's exactly what I am planning to do, if they let me do.

Now I ask a question: how old are you?

Don't lose your hope, remember of people like me!!:ok::ok::ok:

[HeathrowAirport]

Hi Again,

I think I might meet FAA straight away, but not sure.

However reading this I might be able to get a Deviation due my left eye right?
There will be no short-term deviation route for new initial class 1 applicants whose refractive error falls between –6D (the new initial limit) and –8D (the previous revalidation limit which no longer exists). Applicants who have between 2D and 3D of anisometropia or astigmatism should contact medical department for advice.


Mine is +6L and +5R with 20/20 both and right. Left eye is 20/40.

My eyesight is improving, just I cannot do anything about that left eye, its improving in terms of longsight but will always be lazy. I am 16.

Is there any deviation for +5D

Regards,

Robbie

[HeathrowAirport]

I have just been reading that Deviation policy and it does not or say they can say no, they mite give me a long term or short term Deviation. But that could be my appeal, there deviation policy.

Regards,

Robbie

[woltgreat]

Hi,

the short-term deviation policy does not exist anymore, the only one still existing is the long-term one.
As far as I can see you're pretty young...why so worried then?
It is very likely that the JAA rules are gonna change in two\three years, right when you will be old enough to start your ATPL course.

Or, in alternative, you can take the FAA route as I did...but be careful, the thing you quoted it's not talking about + dioptres but about - dioptres...

–6D (the new initial limit) and –8D

Anyway the same applies to + dioptres, and you can extend the requirements until the renewal ones if you hold an FAA CPL + FAA class 1.

[HeathrowAirport]

Hi,

I wish to start my PPL, under a Class 1, As I have been told to always take the higher medical, as if they change and you once held it, and you only meet Class 2 you can gain a Class 1 once again. If thats BS, I am not sure but, I don't mind as long as I can become a pilot.

the only one still existing is the long-term one.

And weres that stated?

And yes I know, thats why I was wondering if there is no deviation or a limit to the deviation applied. I do prefer to live and work in the UK, but it all depends on there verdict right?

Thanks very much for your help, it has boosted my hopes a bit. Feel proud for that :)

Regards,

Robbie

[woltgreat]

And weres that stated?

In the file I showed you, in this part:

There will be no short-term deviation route for new initial class 1 applicants...

The only deviation that still applies is the long-term one and only if you hold an ICAO CPL, in the event you fall outside the initial standard but within the revalidation:

Those who fall outside the initial standard, but within the revalidation standard and subject to satisfactory assessment and appropriate limitations, may be considered for a long-term deviation, which will then be transferred to their JAA licence, when issued.

Once you got your "long-term deviated" class 1 you want to remove the deviation. How?

...the deviation will remain as long as the medical condition is still present and/or the relevant regulations remain in force.

So you have two choices:

1)You wait for the regulations to change.
2)You find a way to make the "medical condition not to be present anymore", as they want. In other words, you decide to have an eye surgery to have your problem removed. Once you have done this, you will have a new examination and they will remove the deviation.

Hope this helps!:ok::)

[HeathrowAirport]

It says only for -D not +, It does not mention the + Deviation if there is any at all.

There will be no short-term deviation route for new initial class 1 applicants whose refractive error falls between –6D (the new initial limit) and –8D (the previous revalidation limit which no longer exists).

So Is it the US route for me for now? Or will they give me a Long term Deviation in the UK, that allows me to train and fly in the UK?

Also there visual acuity is 20/20.

Mine is 20/20 using both, but left on its own is 20/40. Will that fail or pass FAA Requirements?

Regards,

Robbie

[woltgreat]

Hi Robbie,

how is your left eye visual acuity WITH correction?
Are you able to get to 20/20 with correction?If so don't worry at all about FAA, you will pass for sure!

As far as concerning the UK, if you get there with an FAA CPL they should extend the examination standard until the renewal ones (no limits for the + and - dioptres) and basically this means that you would be in.

Luca

[pplh]

Hi

Just wondering what you guys thought. Need to get my CAA class 2 medical done soon and had an eye test a couple of weeks ago. Apparently I am now short sighted by 0.75 dioptres. I haven't got any glasses yet as apparently I am within CAA minimum requirements?
Something is just telling me its worth while getting glasses, even if I only wear them for flying, as in my opinion I am putting myself in a position where my eyes could potentially save my life and so it's best to have the best vision I could possibly have?
I notice a bit of blurring occasionally and its a bit frustrating when identifying aircraft nearby etc, but I don't know whether I'm being over the top wearing glasses if I don't actually 'need' them.

Just wondering what your opinions are?

[HeathrowAirport]

woltgreat (http://www.pprune.org/members/174365-woltgreat),

Its 20/40 with the left with correction. :{However I seem to meet CAA standards on that, but not FAA. Ah this is horrible. CAA have less limits on that, while on something I am over they have a limit on, they FAA dont limit Diopters but they limit vissual acuity. God Help me!

Does anyone know what the short term deviation is for? I think I might fall into that category. As it clearly states they cannot not give me a short term deviation.

Regards,

Robbie.

[Scott Diamond]

Unfortunately Red/Green colourblindess isn't helpful in aviation as they are the crucial colours you need!

[pplh]

Robbie, I think what woltgreat was trying to say is are you able to get a stronger prescription which will correct your left eye to 20/20?

[illusion]

Speak to Terry Robinson (sp??) CASA Perth office.

He has a lot of expertise in this area.

[crcroberts2]

I have been bothered by eye floaters (vitreous floaters) for some time now. As I scan the horizon, looking for dark silhouettes, I see shadows from these floaters flitting about. Anyone else having the same problem. I'm in mid-forties, mildly nearsighted, otherwise healthy. I am ready to do just about anything to get rid of them. I found someone in the US that specializes in treating eye floaters with a laser. It looks legit. There are videos of treatments and you can the the floaters breaking up from the laser.

Does anyone have any experience with these seriously annoying floaters? Know anything about laser treatment?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I've had floaters all my life and never found them too annoying, except when I used to shoot long-range target rifle.... then, s*d's law, one would get in the way as I was taking my last shot! Usually they would go away temporarily if I quickly flicked my eyes left to right or up and down.

More serious floaters may be an indication of what I've just had - Posterior Viscous Detachment, where the jelly-like fluid inside your eye becomes detached from the back of your eye. It is not serious, there is no cure and it doesn't affect your vision. Sometimes these floaters persist for a year or more; other times they go quite quickly. The consultant who checked me out (twice) did not think it was a good idea to try and get rid of them other than "naturally". Several months down the road the floaters associated with the PVD have all but gone.

Probably one of the medics on here will be able to offer more help.

[pplh]

In general floaters aren't a sign of anything else apart from age. The key with floaters is to go and see a specialist if you see a SUDDEN INCREASE in the amount of them and if they are accompanied by FLASHES of light. If you have experienced this, it is worth immediately attending your local opticians, as it can indicate a retinal detachment. This is more serious than a vitreous detachment (which Heathrow Director experienced) and treatment is required.

I have had floaters myself for a while and yes IF you spend all day staring at them and watching them float around, they can drive you absolutely mental! Most optometrists you speak to will tell you to simply get used to them and that is exactly what I have done. You really can learn to ignore them if you are strong minded enough and now they don't bother me at all.

I remember reading more or less what I've just written and thinking, no way, these are going to drive me over the edge, but honestly, you do get used to them, just give it time.

If anyone else had asked about forms of treatment, particularly by laser, I would have advised them to have more of a chat with a specialist and see what they can come up with.
However, judging by the title of your post I understand you are flying and I would ask anyone in this position to have a long hard think about what the consequences could be, should some form of treatment cause issues.

I'm not sure where you are in the world or what form of flying you are undertaking (private, commercial etc) but the majority of aviation authorities have strict preferences when it comes to eye sight and I'm sure the last thing you would want is to lose the ability to fly.

Hope that gives you a bit of guidance!

[nannodnai]

More serious floaters may be an indication of what I've just had, Posterior Viscous Detachment, where the jelly-like fluid inside your eye becomes detached from the back of your eye

Actually, HD, it's "Posterior Vitreous Detachment". I know, because I have it too ! A little bit alarming when it first occurs, but usually settles and can be lived with. Most importantly, does not affect basic visual acuity, and most unlikely to change significantly over a short period or suddenly.

[Loose rivets]

.....by FLASHES of light. If you have experienced this, it is worth immediately attending your local opticians, as it can indicate a retinal detachment.

Yes, have it checked out by a surgeon, but don't assume a retinal problem when flashing occurs. It's one of the prime symptoms of PVD.

However, there may or may not be a danger to the retina - depending on which of the suspension points of the vitreous membrane that have become detached. Strangely, there are not many of them, and as said before, one is near the optic nerve/ blood supply entry point.

3 years ago, it was not known what caused the flashing. (UK consultant eye surgeon.) However, this should subside and even the associated muck floating about can clear to a point that will allow good vision.

Most importantly, does not affect basic visual acuity, and most unlikely to change significantly over a short period or suddenly.

It is not certain that this will clear. If the membrane is hanging in such a way that it leaves you looking through the encapsulation at some obscure angle, and one of the attachment points has migrated to a critical area, then it is very distressing. Vision can be badly impaired.

Vigorous movements, with associated blood pressure increase, say when really tightening stomach muscles, can cause a sudden worsening of the problem. In my case it was severe, the eye was more or less useless. Mind you, I was hanging upside down at the time.

Remember, there is an escape route. Vitrectomy. This should leave the eye perfectly clear...until a cataract arrives, anyway.

Laser treatment. My decision was NO!!!! Not in a million years.

There is an Essex eye surgeon that had a PVD following a car accident as a lad. He achieved what he did by learning to ignore the floaters.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Actually, HD, it's "Posterior Vitreous Detachment". I know, because I have it too >>

Of course, you are right! I mised the "Vitreous" bit when the doc told me and thought my bottom had fallen off!

I also had flashing lights when I moved my eyes quickly and they persisted for quite a while. In fact I still see a bit of light when it's totally dark but it's all but gone now. PVD is also (usually?) accompanied by black dots in one's vision but they've also gone. Only problem is the doc told me my other eye will probably suffer too. Good to be old, eh?

[SilveR5]

Hi there..

My advice is to consult the guys at Gatwick about the possibility of correcting that refractive error of your left eye using non-invasive surgery (Epi-Lasek is the safest one I think).

My condition was 20/40 and +3.25 Diopters with correction of my left lazy eye..the right eye was just fine...both eyes toghether were 20/20...I've done the Epi-Lasek, although the measurements were within acceptable limits for the class 1 medical..Now I believe that the refractive error (diopters) of my lazy left eye is just fractional...!

Don't lose hope buddy...just consult them at Gatwick and then let us know how did things go:ok:

Good luck

[ChicagoHeights]

heterophoria correction....is there anything you can do to maybe exercises...

[zagno83]

.....Since i have a house in Italy i went in Milan to the IML institute an approved JAR medical center.
I toke it back in 10-2006 i think....

Thanx for any inputs.
Cheers:ok:

[S_Reyes_V]

Good day everyone !


For my first post here at PPRuNe, I am appealing to you from Belgium for your wise experience and knowledge of a subject that really worries me at the highest point : nearsightedness (but rather from the "career" side)

I have a quite important nearsightedness that must be corrected with eye glasses (I have been wearing them for 12 years out of 17 ; their refractive power is now at minus 12D, almost stabilized), still I have been told that I DO have a chance to once get into a cockpit, not in Europe (due to the +/- 3D limit) but in the USA ! I am indeed eligible for a class 1 medical certificate, as far as my vision can get perfectly corrected to 20/20. Moreover, I do not suffer from any other disease, chronic pathology or any other considerable reason that could affect my overall performances while "exercising the privileges of airmen duties".

BUT, here is my question :
Can I expect REAL chances of getting hired at a major or regional US airline with such physical condition after completing the requisite training courses ?

The point is that I have already been told about so many very disappointing rumors concerning today's airlines' discriminative policies towards nearsighted pilots (justifying unfair selection with various explanations, many of them having to do with "safety") that I fail to believe in any successful outcome.

I have also heard about intra-ocular implants (the well-known IOLs) that could get my sight much better (insomuch as I could get an unrestricted Class 1), but again, I am afraid of any negative or reluctant reaction from airlines if they fall upon this surgical intervetion in my medical record.

Subsequently, I wanted to know about a list, a link or anything else that could help me find out which airlines run discriminative policies or refuse to hire nearsighted pilots.

By the way, please feel free to let me know if this representation of "narrow-minded airlines" is inappropriate or inaccurate. (I personally hope it is not a grim reality)


Anyway, even if my expectations are well-founded, I do not plan on moving to the USA from Belgium before having prepared every single part of this dreamed exile (after secondary school, I would like to finish high studies in electronics or airspace engineering as a back-up - we never know, especially in my case ; I also do believe that training English at top-level is crucial - I have already passed the FCE Cambridge Exam with an A grade (:ok:) anyway, so I think I am on the right track...)
I have no doubt concerning my psychological and mental potential, since I have always been at the edge at school (best student in the whole grade for more than 7 years, A marks EVERYWHERE, really keen on maths and accurate sciences, self-responsible, enthusiastic about Precision with a big P, conscious that Safety with a big S comes first, whatever I do).


Thank you in advance, first for having read this post entirely :D, and above all, for your answers that will certainly be constructive.


Kind regards,


Sébastien Reyes,
a Belgian pilot aspirant

P.S. : answers from experienced pilots or airmen in similar cases preferred.

[zacokeeffe]

How is the CAD TEST coming along? Is this good news for us folk or is it further bad news? Any updates or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

[Donalk]

Sebastian - If I read your post correctly you mention a refractive error of minus 12. This is a very large error and while the FAA do not specify a pre correction limit you might want to consult an opthalmologist to find out what is likely to happen to your vision as you grow older.

Whether an airline will discriminate against you because of your myopia is anyone's guess..........In theory they should not, but this is the real world and individual airlines will adopt certain criteria for selection as a matter of course.

Surgical correction is an option but you should discuss the impact on your medical with an FAA AME. Implants I believe are frowned upon whereas laser correction is becoming routine and is not disqualifying. However if you are truly minus 12 then I think you are outside the limits for the laser procedure.

You might also want to consider your chances of getting a visa to work in the US. They are few and far between.

In summary you have plenty of time so carry out some intensive research then examine your findings in a very critical light.

[tigermagicjohn]

I think your biggest problem with USA is that you will not get work permit there unless you get married there.
However you can work most parts of the world with an FAA license, except JAA registered aircraft.
But I have also heard many airlines have their own medical's, so a FAA class 1 medical is not always sufficent to get a job.
If you want to work other countries you will most likely need to speak the local language in that country - and also be able to obtain work permit in that specific country.

It is not easy, but it is not impossible either - but unless you get married in the USA you will never get work permit there.

[S_Reyes_V]

I confirm (with bitterness) that my nearsightedness is at minus twelve D (don't worry too much, I've seen worse !).
As I am not very keen on surgery (it is for me an ultimate possibility), I would rather like to get your point of view on airlines' selection criterias for corrected vision with glasses.

Concerning the visas, and as mentioned in my first post, I am not planning on moving to the USA earlier than at least in ten years (I still have to find money for the training courses !) and anyway, nobody really knows how many things can change in a decade, either in the good or the wrong way.

I'm waiting for as many answers as possible. They will all be of great value for me.

Fingers crossed,

S. Reyes

[Donalk]

With all due respect Sebastien it is futile trying to predict what selection criteria will be like in 10 years time. Supply and demand is one factor which influence how high or low airlines will set the bar. At present the market is weak so airlines can pick and choose from a large pool which means they can choose to discriminate more easily. As the previous poster rightly pointed out most airlines may also set their own medical standards also.

I can only suggest you research the issue with an AME who might be able to give you a better insight due to the fact that they are closer to the issue and may have knowledge of others who have a similiar error and who are gainfully employed. The FAA website will have a list of of AME's in Belgium. Even then the answers you get will only reflect current and recent practises. Ten years down the road requires a crystal ball.

[S_Reyes_V]

Just wanted to tell (to answer Donalk's post) that I definitely agree with the fact that hiring possibilities have always been pretty unpredictable, so let's carry on crossing fingers.
I would also point out that I have already got in touch with a FAA medical examiner : after sending a letter to M.D. and AME John DAX (living in Paris, if you must know), he not only had the elegancy of following up on it, but I also got a positive response from him (he clearly confirmed that I could fly without any trouble with -12D, as long as I wore my glasses, that's for sure). Unfortunately, as I wasn't so worried about my chances of getting a pilot job at the time, I did not raise the question).
Anyway, I'll follow your wise remark. I'll try to find another AME who's a little bit more aware about what's going on with the airlines overseas...
What about sending mails directly to the airlines' recruitment department ?

Take care,
Seb

[BestieGirl]

I've been looking into pursuing flying professionally as a commercial pilot but have realised that my prescription is -0.75 over the -6 limit in one eye, though I meet all the other requirements and have 20/20 vision when corrected, I should also have not probelms with the renewal limits, just the initial. I'm 21 and will not start training for at least a year and so am hoping that either my vision or the standards will change by then but I've got a few questions I'm hoping you can help me out with.

Is it possible to get someone from the CAA to look at your prescription and advise you before taking the full medical?

Is there any way around these initial limits if you'd be fine with renewal?

Also, does anyone know why the initial and renewal limits are different? Surely if you are unsafe to fly due to vision at one level then that level should be upheld for renewals.

Thanks in advance for any answers, I really want to see if this is still a viable option for me.

[nannodnai]

Is it possible to get someone from the CAA to look at your prescription and advise you before taking the full medical?

Yes, it is. Write to the Medical Department of the CAA, asking just those questions, and enclosing a copy of your optician's latest prescription.

Address is : Aviation House
Gatwick Airport, South Area
West Sussex
RH6 0YR

It might not be immediate, but you will certainly get a reply.

[HeathrowAirport]

Ive waited 1/4 of a year now for a reply :uhoh:, for something similar :( and its tense day by day, and I want it to be at the least of my memory.

Send as soon as possible, and good luck, I hope you and I both get what we want.

[nannodnai]

I've waited a 1/4 of a year now for a reply

To be honest, that's very unusual, and is not borne out by my experience of communicating with Aviation House. There may, of course, be something of which I am not aware which makes your case unusual or difficult.

However, periodic enquiries over a reasonable time scale can always be made to see how things are progressing. General number is 01293 573 700 , you get through to one of these automated synthetic operator systems. You press "1" for Medical, then get four or five other choices. My advice would be to ask to speak to one of the Aeromedical Advisors.

At the very least they should be able to help explain why it is taking so long to make a decision !

[BestieGirl]

Yes, it is. Write to the Medical Department of the CAA, asking just those questions, and enclosing a copy of your optician's latest prescription.

Address is : Aviation House
Gatwick Airport, South Area
West Sussex
RH6 0YR

It might not be immediate, but you will certainly get a reply.

Thanks. I'll send off a letter today.

[Nipper2]

A friend of my daughter has recently been told by her school careers adviser that she will not be able to fulfill he ambition to become a commercial pilot 'because she wears glasses'. I have a feeling this is not correct.

Without knowing the full details, I believe the lady in question has mild short sight (needs glasses for distance vision) with no complications.

The simple answer is ....?

Thanks in advance.

[nannodnai]

The combined VISION THREAD is now well over 700 posts in length, and is a great deal to wade through for this information.

Much better to print off this

Vision | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=68&gid=1250)

and give it to your daughter's friend with the advice to check it out with her optician.

Simple mild to moderate short sight (myopia) is certainly not usually a bar to a commercial flying career if it can be well corrected using spectacles or contact lenses.

[Nipper2]

Thanks nannodnai. Exactly what I needed.

[HeathrowAirport]

Unfortunately after returning from the Flyer exibition and returned all happy and enthusiastic, I found a CAA "Personal" letter, and I knew straight away this was it, this is the moment Ill find out the truth..


"I am very sorry to advise you that your opthalmic refraction falls outside the standard of both Class 1 and Class 2 Medical certification. You also have a substandard vission in your left eye due to excess hypermetropia."

So thats it, unless I can improve my eyesight on my left eye by 3M and my Correction by +1D Ill never ever set foot in a a airplane cockpit for the rest of my living days. Now I personally know what the real people go through when they have there wings taken of them due to one or two minor issues.

My left eye is Vissual acuity of (20/40) 6/12, the CAA requirement is (20/30) 6/9, I fall short by 3 meters (9ft) and my Correction is +1D over there +5D at +6D. My right eye has no problems, unless I can sort my left eye out and according to the CAA I need to change my proffesion:{:{:{:{:{And there rules even state you cannot have Laser surgery if over these limits, how cruel is that, if I have had laser surgery and I can see perfect they still wont let me fly due to my past perscription.

Its been a dream ever since I was a little boy to fly a plane, and I had a taste of that 1 year ago in a PA28 and now I feel like Its over before it even began.

I dont know what to do, I want to become one of you guys and live in the dream world not for the money or anything like that but the pure addrenalin rush I get in airplane cockpit.

Thanks,

Robbie

[NurseToPilot]

Robbie

Don't be disheartened......

I was in your situation last year where I was told that my Astigmatism was outside limits.. (limit being 2.00±) and i was -3.75D.

I had laser surgery and asked CAA to re evaluate my particular case again to see if I could be considered for CLASS 1.....

They did and on 26th June last year I was granted my CLASS 1 Medical!

THey said i had to wait 3 months before they would see me and I had to supply copies of the ophthalmic assessment, as well as a signed report from my surgeon declaring that it was an uncomplicated procedure......


PM ME If you want more information

JONATHAN

[jakeekaj]

I posted multipul replys to other threads but noone ever replied to mine!
So my question is
Q. Is this acceptable for a class 1 medical?

R Sph | Cyl | Axis
I +3.75 -0.25 90.0
G
H
T


L Sph | Cyl | Axis
E +0.50 -0.25 20.0
F
T

Thanks.

[HeathrowAirport]

I have just spent the last 3 hours looking for treatment and many articles wereby one person improved there eyesight from 20/400 (Legally Blind) to 20/20 now with or without the glasses by just playing a computer game and wearing a patch. I know I am living on a dream world but my eyesight is L 20/40 with Amblyopia 0.75 Astig and long sight at 6D+ and my R is 20/10 with +5D and 0.25 Astig., so I am just barely outside CAA Limits.

I am fairly young at 16 and I was once under NHS treatment and my eyesight got to a state were it was at a standard were there was no point in wasting precious NHS money to improve anymore. It was at 6/9 and thats 20/30 vission, its now 6/12 at 20/40, so something has obviously gone wrong in the last 8-9 years of not using that patch.

I am now determined to not give up on my dream and let it slip by me with one persons encouragement on this forum, I am looking at many options.

I have booked an eye appointment with Vission express on Saturday were I wish to ask if I could be referred back to the Hospital such as Kings or Moorfields Eye Hospital.

I wish to not take no for an answer in the quest for my treatement, so what can I say to the Opticians? If they say no there is no point due to your age, when each case is obviously individual and I wish to at least try, and I am very ditermined.

Any Suggestions.

Kindest Regards,

Robbie

[baz76]

I have got prescription glasses from the optician

the prescription reads as follows

right eye
S=-0.25
C=0.5
Axis=175

Left eye
S=infinity
C=1
Axis=5

Can I go for class 2 initial medical ? what about class 1 initial

spoke to an AME who said they wouldnt accept if my uncorrected vision is worse than 6/9. I am a bit confused as on the requirements it says otherwise


Any advise would be appreciated

thanks
baz

[cross bleed start]

Baz

I am not sure the S and C in yours are stands for because my
country use different jargon.

This is what the ICAO Annex One(10th edition) says about
eye acuity:6.3.3.2. is for class 1 and 6.4.3.2 is for class 2.

6.3.3.2 Distant visual acuity with or without correction
shall be 6/9 or better in each eye separately, and binocular
visual acuity shall be 6/6 or better. No limits apply to
uncorrected visual acuity. Where this standard of visual acuity
can be obtained only with correcting lenses, the applicant may
be assessed as fit provided that

6.4.3.2 Distant visual acuity with or without correction
shall be 6/12 or better in each eye separately, and binocular
visual acuity shall be 6/9 or better. No limits apply to uncorrected
visual acuity. Where this standard of visual acuity can
be obtained only with correcting lenses, the applicant may be
assessed as fit provided that:

Hope this could be help,

CBS

[nicolai]

I'm going to assume baz76 has some astigmatism and therefore the S is the spherical section of the lens required and C is the cylindrical section. In the UK these are often written as "sph" and "cyl". Axis is the orientation of the cylindrical part of the prescription.

[suddste]

Hello, I don't want to be annoying and bump this post up, but I really would like it answered quite soon if possible.


Thanks,
suddste

[nannodnai]

You will get HUNDREDS of ideas of "what it's like" if you take the time to trawl through this massively long thread in its entirety.

However, to take up slightly less of your time, it would be

Best to arrange an appointment to have it done at Gatwick . . . . . . only then will you really know

The opinions you will get on here are worth precisely NOTHING when it comes to decision making about YOU at the Belgrano.

[suddste]

Ok, thanks

[suddste]

Ok, thanks very much for your post, it helped a lot. Looking at the amount of text in it it seems like you spent quite a bit of time doing it so i'm grateful for that. Thanks!

[baz76]

thanks guys for the reply

yes i have astigmatism. i am wondering if i can go for class 1 or should i try class 2 first?

[HeathrowAirport]

To apply for an FAA issued medical certificate:
1. Download FAA Form 8500-7;
2. Have an examination with an eye doctor, and request they completely and legibly complete the 8500-7; and
3. Bring the completed 8500-7 along with you, when you have an examination by an FAA designated Aviation Medical Examiner (AME).

The AME will submit your examination findings and eye evaluation report to Aerospace Medical Certification Division (AMCD).

If you otherwise meet medical standards, the AMCD will likely issue a student pilot and medical certificate with the limitation “Valid for Student Pilot Privileges Only,” and authorize a Medical Flight Test (MFT).

If you demonstrate the ability to safely operate the aircraft during the MFT, the AMCD will likely issue a “Statement of Demonstrated Ability” (SODA) and medial certificate.

Please see:

http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8500-7.pdf

Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners<br>Decision Considerations (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item50/amd/)

Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners<br>Application Process for Medical Certification (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item23-24/)

Thanks

Ok I understand most of it, but whats Statement of Demonstrated Ability? Does this mean with my amblyopic condition I can fly Commercially and gain a FAA Class 1 and train in the US?

[NurseToPilot]

@ BAZ76

Do you intend on going Commercial?

If so then you might as well go for a Class 1 from the outset - to be sure you CAN get one come the point of starting commercial once you've done private flying...

It would be a nightmare to find out that you can gain a class 2 - complete your private training then apply for a class 1 and realise you cannot get one!

You will have to go to Gatwick for your initial (assuming you are in UK)

I've been through it all in the last year with Medical - where I failed Class 1 due to astigmatism (-3.75)

I had this corrected by lasik in March 2008 and gained my Class 1 in June 2008

From your prescription details They don't seem too bad - the figures seem to be within CAA limits for VA..... obviously they will need you to see 6/9 or better in each eye individually and 6/6 with both together.

If you need glasses to achieve this then it is acceptable.

Reply here or PM me for more information about my experiences

[fireoff]

Hi All,
My left eye is ok (+2) but it's within limits but my right eye was said to be +5/+5.25 but after a second shot i was able to read the 6/9 line.

Would you think this was dodgy? My local doctor who is an AME gave me my class 2 but he wasn't able to say whether or not I would get the class 1.

What do you think? Also, if I went to an ophthamologist and he said I was fine, gave the results and a cover letter would I still have the tests in Dublin for the class 1 for the eye done again or would they look at the letter and say "ok"??

All feedback will be gkladly appreciated.

Fireoff

[NurseToPilot]

Hi

First of all - with all the fraud thats going on in the world there is no way a Regulatory Body who grants Medical Certification is going to just look at somebody's letter and say "OK" and give a Class 1 Based on that alone... they would have to test you themselves too..... what's to say you weren't in collusion with your AME and had paid him to say you were ok...... then you crashed the plane because your eye sight wasn't up to standard??

I'm not for one minute suggesting you would do that but my point is that to safeguard themselves from litigation the authority would do their own tests!

With regards to your 6/9 reading ability after a second shot... you would probably need to be able to prove it on your first shot to get through a CAA medical - you won't get a second shot at seeing traffic in the air!!!

I believe the limits is +6 therefore you may just be within limits...... have a look at the authority website medical / eye sight requirements to be sure.

J

[fireoff]

Many thanks for that.

I think it would be wise maybe to go and see the IAA's ophthamologist 1st before doing the whole class 1 and failing and paying a couple hundred more.

I looked and the regulations for long-sighted are +5 so if I was +5 and on the border will they pass me?....im not outside but i am on the limit?

[NurseToPilot]

They may well pass you -

THe problem is that when you have an eye test you have one reading... then if another optician did it again 5 mins later you would no doubt be around 0.25 different in prescription..... and again 5 mins later there would be a change again.....

What I did was had to book the full Medical......... and ask for the eye test FIRST so that if i failed I would get a refund for the bits i didnt have done... However i DID fail but was advised to carry on for the full medical to make sure i could pass the rest with no problems before getting my eyes sorted....

I had told them i was considering LASER SURGERY although it is against their recommendation...... so what they said was "If you are going to go ahead with laser surgery its your choice we cannot guarantee a medical for you at the end of it....but would it not be wise then to have the full medical now incase you spend on correcting your eye only to come back and fail medical on something you did not otherwise know about...."

I thought this was them trying to gain the extra cash from me... but it does make sense!!

JON

[fireoff]

Very true!

Did you have the laser? If so did you pass it after?

Sean

[NurseToPilot]

Yes and Yes.....

BUT i had laser surgery for ASTIGMATISM .... NOT myopia!

My Refraction was only -1.75 so well within the limits.... however my astigmatism as -3.75... limit was 2.00

The reason HIGH myopia patients aren't granted Medicals is due to the risk of Retinal Detachment..... a Very Short Sighted person's risk of the retina becoming detached is high due to the shape of the eye....

Having laser surgery although would correct the vision would NOT remove / eradicate the risk of retinal detachment..... and this is why the CAA say that they would still base decisions on the PRE operative refraction results in some cases where it was high......

It is not always the fact that you can see with correction that is important.

JON

[fireoff]

Sorry Jon...1 more question.

You spoke about the short sighted people....i'm long sighted is that worse, same or better?

Thanks,
Sean

[NurseToPilot]

I think its better to be Long Sighted than Short.... however you would need to clarify that with the CAA / IAA whoever your authority is....

With LONG sightedness - you "could" be eligible for Laser Surgery but again this would need to be discussed. Their immediate answer will be is NOWAY YOU CANT HAVE LASIK.... but they said that to me - then i Had it and told them and asked them to see me again to re evaluate and i was granted the medical class 1..


Keep in mind mine was to correct astigmatism - so my refraction WAS NOT in the 'at risk' category for retinal detachment which i think is they key issue here.

[fireoff]

Jon,
Thanks for all your help...much appreciated:ok:

[pistonprovost]

Hello Robbie,

Try these people: Accuvision
I spoke to them on Thursday and they advised me they may be able to help people with Amblyopic (lazy eye) problems providing there is some form of correction present in the first place.

Best of luck, pm me if you wish.

Take care,

Nigel.

[4eyedfreak]

Hi all,

So just got the letter from the CAA saying that they can´t possibly accept me for a Class 1 as my right eye was outside of the short sight limit for class 1 prior to my LASIK surgery. My eyesight is now perfect 6 months post surgery.

Are there any other options for me to get into the RHS (preferably of a UK carrier), e.g training outside of the EU etc, or should I just deal with the bad news and start considering a new career?

Any help / encouragement much appreciated.

Thanks, Elliott

[7oodaz]

hi ,
iam having moderate conjunctivitis in both eyes , eye dryness , astigmatism , floaters and small cyst in both eyes ( but still my vision is 20/20 with correction )
note that when i went for my first faa class 1 medical i had all of those problems except the cyst ,, and i think now i have more astigmatism
so can those disqualify me to renew the Medical ?
and if any of you know's ,, what can increase those problems ? can smoking do ?
thanks

[HeathrowAirport]

Hello Nigel,

Do you mean that If it was corrected when I was younger? Then Yes. And apparently mine can also be corrected with lase surgery aswell becuase its due to excess (Long Sight) and I have a squint. But Ill try the natural method first.

Thanks,

Robbie

[HeathrowAirport]

They are really really cruel, seriously I cant believe they take your post op stuff, I have spoken to many who have been allowed, just write to them and say, give me an actual real reason as to why you cant give me a medical, my eyesights perfect now, do you really like hurting peoples dreams, you only get one life and I want to be a pilot, theres no issues with my eyesight, what do you propose I do?

Im in same situation as you, I can never ever become a Pilot becuase of CAA Diopter Limits. I also unluckily have an amblyopia in my left eye.:{

Good Luck and DO NOT take it from them, and try writing to the Cheif Medical officer.

Regards,

Robbie

[HeathrowAirport]

As far as I am aware and to what I have been told there is no risk for retinal detachment in people who have long-sight, the CAA limit is just there to make it fair for the short-sighters who cant be pilots, must be the reason, becuase I can understand for Short due Retinal Detachment.

[casabula]

Hello,

I'm 34, not sure to be diagnosticated with KC.
Initial medical Class 1 approved. For renewal not sure...
Are you sure that JAA rejects pilots with KC stabilised and with 10/10
each eye ?

What's your story ?

Regards.

Laurent.

[planecrazy.eu]

Need something explaining to me =)

I have been reading about eyes, vision and all that, but cant find the answer to this.

Some people "cant" see 20/20 with correction, why is this?

Example case - +4.75 corr / 1.75D Astg, 20/30 vision.

To my mind, increasing correction could increase the vision? For example, if you used a telescope, you would obviously see 20/20, so why not if you increased dioptre?

Bad example really, but wondering why some can see 20/20 with correction and some cant?

Thanks

[NurseToPilot]

Correction CANNOT give you 100% perfect vision- it can only improve your vision.....

Obviously everybody's eyes are different but somebody with say +5.5 Could be corrected but may not be corrected up to +0.0... they may still have a residual prescription perhaps of +1.75 forexemple.... this fact would therefore mean that you could not achieve 100% 20/20 vision......

Also there is only so much you can correct - You've seen people with "JAM JAR" bottom glasses haven't you? The correction in this is immense yet their vision may still NOT be 100%

There is technology available to get the same prescription into THINNER lenses.... however it has its limits and you can only refract up to a certain point...

Hope this makes some sense.

JON

[tigermagicjohn]

CAA is blaming it on JAR, having spoken with chief medical doctor - he himself did not personally agree with the pre op limits put on laser surgery.
However it is because of JAR and later EASA, they need approval from all countries, and some of them want more strict rules, French and Germans I have been told.

However defies all logic with regards to safety, a pilot from USA, can arrive on a 747 with glass like the bottom of Coca Cola bottle, and not even see the exit door when he takes his glasses or lenses off.
I do understand and agree for military aircraft it needs to higher standards due to their kind of flying, but commercial airlines - sorry JAR has got this completely wrong. And all doctors I have spoken to agrees on this.

I believe given time, maybe 5 - 10 years they will start to see sense here in JAR land to, but I hope this will not kill of the dream for some! I say don't give up, where there is a will there is a way.
Going trough FAA might be risky, but there are other countries you can fly in who do not belong to JAR, and where FAA license is sufficient, but of course this is not the easy route, but if you young free and single, it is not impossible!

[NurseToPilot]

As I've previously said - I failed Class1 due astigmatism..... had laser surgery (against CAA advice as their blanked statement is WE DONT RECOMMEND IT) the told them about it and asked if i could be re evaluated.......

I now possess a Class 1 Medical! :ugh::ugh:

[planecrazy.eu]

Thanks for that.

What opticians do people use, and how do they find them?

Just wondering, as both vision express and D&A give me slightly better results than Spec-Savers.

I was also wondering if anyone has better experience with a type/make of lens or store?

I have heard Carl-Zeiss are good lens'?

I need a new pair, and was thinking of buying from a new optician rather than spec-savers and maybe using a new brand of lens rather than Pentax.

I am a SLR user, so i know that lens can make a high impact on quality and sharpness.

[7oodaz]

guys , can you please answer my question ? :(


hi ,
iam having moderate conjunctivitis in both eyes , eye dryness , astigmatism , floaters and small cyst in both eyes ( but still my vision is 20/20 with correction )
note that when i went for my first faa class 1 medical i had all of those problems except the cyst ,, and i think now i have more astigmatism
so can those disqualify me to renew the Medical ?
and if any of you know's ,, what can increase those problems ? can smoking do ?
thanks

[NurseToPilot]

Its all well and good getting Carl Zeiss lenses in your glasses....... BUT the CAA will still TEST your eyes using their own lenses which may NOT be Carl Zeiss....

The be all and end all of the result you get will depend on THE CAA results and nobody else's.... So regardless of which optician you go to and what results you get... Changing optician to get a better result will only make the 'difference' larger if the CAA results are less....

You can however almost guarantee that the CAA WILL be using the BEST equipment available (they have to to justify our silly costs)


Hope this makes sense

JON

[simulacra]

2·0 prism dioptres in hyperphoria at 6 metres,
10·0 prism dioptres in esophoria at 6 metres,
8·0 prism dioptres in exophoria at 6 metres;
and 1·0 prism dioptre in hyperphoria at 33 cms,
6·0 prism dioptres in esophoria at 33 cms,
12·0 prism dioptres in exophoria at 33 cms

Is this measured while the eyes are fixated on an object or is this the "worst case scenario" if a latent hyperphoria is forced through blocking one eye at a time?

[nannodnai]

Thank you so very much ! Never heard that classification before !

Been an AME for 23 years, and still learning something new almost every day !

Cheers !

[Zamfire]

This came up after hearing an interview with the founder of [a] pilots' supply business. Apparently he has one rather bad eye which did not meet the usual 20/20 (corrected) requirements for a CPL. But he eventually succeeded in getting his Class2 medical and going on to a successful flying career.

I was wondering if anybody here has personal experience with this:

Suppose you wanted to get a FAA Class 2 medical to go for your CPL (already have a PPL) but your eyesight in one eye was just outside the limits (20/40, corrected).The other is 20/20, corrected.

Now I heard of plenty of cases of commercial pilots with various vision defects, including only having one eye, still getting Class 2 and even Class 1 medicals. Either through a waiver or through a Statement Of Demonstrated Ability.

Has anyone here gone through this process? Is it worth a try? I know I can talk to an AME and have done plenty of research online, but I'd like to hear about personal experiences.

[Charlie Zulu]

Zamfire,

I've successfully gone through the process.

My eyesight is 6/6 (20/20) in my left and 6/9 (20/30) in my right and with both eyes together it is obviously 6/6 (20/20).

I originaly travelled to the USA (2003) to gain an FAA IR and pass a PPL checkride to obtain a full standalone-not-based-on-any-foreign-licence FAA PPL/IR. However because I had around four hundred hours at this point the IR examiner talked me into doing an FAA CPL checkride instead which I passed. When this all happened I had only an FAA Class 3 medical as I thought I wouldn't be able to hold any higher medical due to my right eye correction (the FAA stipulates 20/20 in each eye seperately for Class 1 and 2 medicals).

So I then held an FAA CPL/IR with an FAA Class 3 medical. In FAA land one can obtain any level of certificate up to FAA ATP with just an FAA Class 3 medical. However, obvious as it may be, one cannot use the privilages of the certificate unless you have the appropriate medical. So I was limited to private flying only with my FAA CPL/IR and FAA Class 3 medical (which was all I wanted it for anyway).

At my medical renewal a couple of years later my FAA AME asked if I wanted to go and try to obtain an FAA Class 1 medical. We had a discussion and it transpired that he would do the medical examination and if I otherwise passed (except the right eye being 20/30) he wouldn't be able to issue the certificate but would pass all of my information to Oklahoma FAA medical division for a decision.

I did have to have an FAA opthamology report filled in by the optician and had numerous tests done there. These were faxed off to the FAA via my AME.

A couple of weeks later I received through the post a letter from the FAA. I thought it was going to be a denial of medical certificate or more probably an FAA Class 3 medical.

However when I opened the letter I found inside an FAA Class 1 medical with the limitation "Must wear corrective specs" and "Not valid for any class after November 2005".

The accompany letter said I was issued an FAA Class 1 medical under special issuance. The condition of the issuance was that I furnished an opthamology report at least yearly. So at the second renewal (Class 1's are valid for 6 months and I wanted to keep the Class 1 medical valid even though I could have let it lapse to Class 2 privilages) the medical said "Not valid for any class after November 2006" and so forth...

It appears the FAA takes each case on its own merits and can issue medicals under special issuance if one furnishes the required information and it is acceptable by the medical division. Basically they want to ensure you're not going to be a risk to other people, whether flying with you or on the ground.

I did have about 500 hours and an FAA CPL/IR before applying for an FAA Class 1 medical. However I don't think they took any of this into the equation and I believe it was purely based on opthamology reports etc. I would not recommend getting a certificate without getting the medical first if you are wanting this purely for a career.

All the best!

[Zamfire]

Thank you very much for that information, it's good to hear a success story once in a while.

I hate to say it, but many commercial pilots seem to look down with disdain at anyone who does not have perfect eyesight and has to resort to eyeglasses. There are many factors involved in being medically fit to fly and eyesight is only one of them. I have always enjoyed perfect health in all other respects, unlike many CPLs I have known, who have a host of other medical issues to deal with, but somehow it is always eyesight that seems to be talked about the most.

I fly in the some of the busiest airspace in the world around Los Angeles and have often asked myself; what would I see if I had had a Class 1 or 2 medical that I don't see right now with my Class 3? What would I need to see that I can't see now?? How much safer would I be or my passengers if I had 20/20 in my "bad" eye instead of 20/40 since I alway (duh...) fly with both eyes open (at 20/20)?

Thanks again for taking the time to relate your experience.

[J500]

Hi,

I am a network engineer about to take a plunge into aviation for a Commercial pilot training course. Before that, I need to make sure I meet the Indian DGCA Class 1 standards for medical fitness. I have -4.5D in both eyes which is below the -6.00 standards. To be sure of my fitness, I am planning to take the class 2 and class 1 meds. How long are the class 2 and class 1 dgca meds valid? Also, how soon can I get a Class 1 once I clear the class 2? Any help would be highly appreciated.

[TelBoy]

Well the above statement might shock a few of you to thinking the CAD test is available - well at present it is not.

In my last visit to Aviation House I did actually take the CAD test (yes the CAA DO have it) they told me at the time that if and when it was certified they would look at the results. In my following letters to them they agreed to look at my results and tell me if I would pass or fail when it becomes available.

Well the CAA have now written to me using the results of my City Uni CAD test and say I would fail (funny they did not use their own results!!).

So there you have it folks, do not hang on hoping about the CAD because you could well get the same answer as myself.

[dombeaumont]

Hi Telboy,

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate results. What does this mean in terms of them not giving you results from theirs at the CAA? Is there any chance the results may differ?

How much nagging does is involved before they give you a reply? I have also written to them seeking results of the CAD I took last year at the CAA too. Still yet to hear anything.

[planecrazy.eu]

With FAA i think, pretty sure too, that you are ok as long as you can see 20/20 with both eyes.

With the CAA you are out of luck, as your over... However, call them, talk to them, send them what they ask for and they may call you down.

[Bubulle]

Hello!

As I'm in the doubt, I would like to remove it: I've 5.25 dioptres of myopia and 1.5 dioptres of astigmatism for my worst eye (thus out of the 6.00). I've read in the beginning of the topic (2005...) that CAA might give the 1st class if a candidate fits the renewal requirements. Is it still true, nowadays, in 2009? I've only 0.75 above the requirements and I can't imagine to have to give up my dream for that :{ I know that EASA could make the standard a little bit easier but I've been waiting for 23 years...

Thanks for your help

[vickers vanguard]

charlieromeogolf,

You would get a Class 1 medical, with the mention " Daylight only ". You can always fly dual at night if you wish to of course.

[modhop]

Hi Guys

I was wonderng if anyone could enlighten me as to where I can do An FAA Medical in Ireland or the UK. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Modhop

[Shunter]

AME Search Criteria (http://ame.cami.jccbi.gov/search.asp?search=country)

[Bubulle]

Does nobody have a previous experience? :uhoh:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

2Close I couldn't agree more!

WanabeeQF, I check out the tower lights as I go here and there and find them all pretty much the same;

The white is white
The Green is like the green on the wingtip nav light, looks like an aqua green to me; and the Red, well its Red!

They are also very bright and intense almost to the point where they burn your retinas, I guess thats for daytime viewing.

Its as if there is a standard for the hue of these lights. I'm not sure if there is a standard but if there is perhaps the CV tests should test only to that standard? I have no trouble with the PAPI, I shoot them almost daily.

Oh, and last time I checked the EFIS manual doesn't discriminate against CVD pilots.

[TelBoy]

The CAD test is just another academic wet dream that proves NOTHING. The only way to prove if someone is fit to fly is in practical situations. EVERY pilot should need to demonstrate that they are fully capable of preforming ALL duties needed for the license or rating they seek.

We all do practical testing and those that can preform to the required standards should pass and those that cannot will fail.

As soon as the aviation authorities come together and support real practical testing then we will have a non discriminatory system that is a step forward in flight safety.

I feel the aviation authorities will NEVER agree with this - so go on CAA, JAA, FAA etc and prove me wrong. (in fact the FAA do have a similar practical approach, but not to all applicants)

[rahulras1993]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anybody could tell me something about my eyesight and flying.

Okay so here

Eye Sph Cycl Axis
Right Eye -5.50 -0.50 15
Left Eye -2.00 -1.00 155

This was a regular optician , i go to every six months. Please let me know wether this acceptable for attaining a CASA/FAA/DGCA liscense

Thanks in Advance!

[cottam approach]

Off topic slightly. Posted on here sometime ago about IRITIS. Well CAA gave me a class one despite having had multiple episodes. Obviously I was and still am over the moon but thought i'd leave this post in case another iritis sufferer does a search and is worried. Obviously every case is different and it may not be the same result for other sufferers but just so you know, there is hope!

[AviatorDave]

Hi all,

this is a little lengthy, but please bear with me:

Currently living in Europe and wanting to go into commercial aviation, I underwent a JAA medical class I examination. All turned out OK, except for my myopic eyesight. My prescription is:

R -5.00 -2.50 (astigmatism)
L -6.00 -2.25 (astigmatism)

This prescription has not changed in many years, and my eyes turned out to be perfectly OK otherwise (20/20 vision while wearing my glasses, night vision OK, color vision 100%, glare sensitivity OK, you name it).

But:
JAA put down hard prescription limits in their regulations, and I exceed those limits, so I could get a class II medical only.

Now my questions:

I read the FAA regulations and did not find any such limit on the prescription strength for an FAA class I medical. It only says that you've got to have 20/20 vision while wearing appropriate corrective lenses.

Is there any regulation about the prescription strength that I have missed?

How is prescription strength handled by the airlines? Any "hidden agenda"?

I know that in Europe, especially the well-known airlines like Lufthansa tend to have their own (much stricter) prescription limits in place when it comes to hiring, so even someone with a perfectly valid JAA class I medical could not be eligible for a job at certain airlines.

Any input, experience and knowledge is highly appreciated.

Thank you

AviatorDave

[Shunter]

None of this detracts from the fact that the CAA demand you be able to differenciate between very very light green and very very very light green... A clearly proposterous situation as unrepresentative of real life as it gets.

The CAD test has the benefit of being much better able to more accurately pinpoint the nature and extent of one's CVD, that is not being contested. However, the key factor is that noone has ever provided any evidence that a) CVD pilots constitute a risk, and b) If they do, what threshold of CVD perfection should be set as the pass/fail criteria.

I'm sorry, but "we THINK cvd pilots are a risk" just doesn't cut it. The commonly used bolleaux revolves around PAPI lights. Personally when flying in a light aircraft I really don't care about PAPIs when I'm VMC and prefer to retain the ability to glide to the runway; I'm usually 4 whites right to the piano keys. If flying an IAP in duff weather I'm not breaking cloud until I'm over concrete so they retain their irrelevance either way.

I have a clean Class 1 these days, so perhaps my grinding axe isn't as sharp as that of some, but still I fail to be even remotely convinced by anything the CAA/JAA have to say as regards CVD.

[Bealzebub]

I'm sorry, but "we THINK cvd pilots are a risk" just doesn't cut it. The commonly used bolleaux revolves around PAPI lights. Personally when flying in a light aircraft I really don't care about PAPIs when I'm VMC and prefer to retain the ability to glide to the runway; I'm usually 4 whites right to the piano keys. If flying an IAP in duff weather I'm not breaking cloud until I'm over concrete so they retain their irrelevance either way.

Yes but not a very convincing argument! Try that in an airliner on a selection of average runways and your long term longevity, no I correct that, short term longevity is likely to be limited.

[Shunter]

You're missing the point. Such lights present red and white; hardly similar colours and easily discernable to all but the most severely affected CVD sufferers. Why do you think the City University PAPI simulator got canned? Because everyone passed....

At the end of the day it's a field in which little research had been undertaken towards creating an appropriate scale on which to place prospective pilots; even less so in terms of establishing relevant pass/fail criteria. As such common sense dictates that the only sensible test is one of reality; pilots confronted with feasible situations they are likely to encounter in the discharge of their duties. A 50 year old set of clapped out disco lights in a dingy room at Gatwick doesn't just doesn't cut it.

Lack of knowledge and understanding is simply not an acceptable excuse any more.

[Bealzebub]

Regrettably (as far as an officer of the CAA would be concerned) that is exactly what is being alleged and apart from clear UK case law in this area there is also an overwhelming agreement from Legal Counsel that the CAA is unlawfully discriminating in a number of areas, and we have spoken to a very significant number of solicitors and barristers on this matter.

Yes you were researching this legal challenge almost 3 years ago to the day on this very thread. The CAA is an emination of the state in part charged with maintaining the fitness standards required for a medical certificate. Clearly the standards are meant to discriminate, all standards are. I am not sure what your allegations are, and to be honest solicitors and barristers are always able to find an argument (some better than others,) to support a clients claim, (on the assumption you are one.) Unless the discrimination is unlawful under the relevant statutes, then it hardly matters how significant the number of solicitors and barristers (or legal counsel if you prefer,) you have spoken to. Presumably if it is so clear cut, you would have obtained a judgement by now?

I believe in this matter you want discrimination to mean something that simply isn't the case. Unless of course you wish to be more specific in your citation?

[sec1]

Hey guys,
i got a question if anyone ever experienced this. I have an uncorrected astigmatism (about .25 on both eyes) and lately I noticed that around light sources there are ghost images. They are only obvious on distant objects but i can still notice them on near objects also. it doenst affect my flying, I was just wondering if I'm the only one...
sec1

[belowradar]

to create fairer guidelines for those hoping to become pilots.

I understand that there has been NO operational assessment of how this relates to the competencies and tasks that pilots perform.

So we have a new test which draws a new line in the sand but still does not correlate to the job of flying an aircraft at night.

Putting the cart before the horse

If a study was following a logical sequence it would say

1 - What is the risk ? and then quantify the risk by practical testing of CVD applicants - for example what type of CVD does the candidate have ?(easily confirmed by medical testing e.g. at City Uni)

2 - What can they not do safely in an aircraft at night - Practical testing flying ILS PAPIS, VASIS ETC

3 - Based on the practical test and medical test what line should be drawn.

i.e. Medical and Practical risk assessment based on fact in real operational environment.

To have a medical led eye test driving the regs is nonsense and any doctor with a basic understanding of control testing would know that.

Analogy = Drug testing based on what the drug manufacturer has decided is sensible without any positive confirmation of the drug side effects IT JUST WOULDN'T BE ACCEPTED AS REASONABLE OR VALID

This does sound like the CAA has hoodwinked the FAA into a backwards step for their pilots BE AWARE OF WHAT THE REALITY WILL BE

[meger5]

Has anyone heard or does anyone have information about possibly having Cystoid Macula Oedema ?

Any help / guidance would be much appreciated.
Tks.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There are many references on Google... but it's spelt Macular.

[gijoe]

2,

Have you thought of bunging in a Freedom Of Information request to see what they say?

G

[meger5]

Thanks do you of any pilots who have it or had it previously ?

[Honeduser]

Hi all,

My prescription is:

R -8.50 -3.75 (astigmatism)
L -8.25 -5.00 (astigmatism)

Please advise me with this prescription whether it would be realistic for me to pursue a career in commercial aviation even if I had undergone LASIK. Please give me honest replies as I need to plan my path from now. Many thanks!

[modhop]

Hey

I was wondering if you guys could fill me in on which set of plates iti is for the JAA medical. Also how many are you tested on? ANy links to practice would be appreciated.

Regards

Modhop :ok:

[RMC]

My son wishes to persue a career in commercial aviation.

Searched the CAA website and on the subject of distance vison they say....

"Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight. This is in the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres. Your optometrist will be able to explain these terms."

His glasses prescription late last year was

Right eye distance - sph + 2.75 cyl -1.0 axis 85.0

Left eye distance - sph + 0.5 cyl blank axis blank

There are no units on this prescription. Are the units dioptres...is he likely to get the nod.


If he is unlikely to meet the class one requirements I will point him in another direction.

Any help much appreciated.

[dobbin1]

Thanks for the advice - and your efforts to help us "disabled" pilots throughout this thread.

Did you do have to do the night flying with a safety pilot? If so, can you do it as a night qualification before the CPL course itself? I don't really understand how I can log night hours with my PPL endorsed "flights by day only", even with a safety pilot. I do actually have 3 hours of night in my log book done in the US as part of my FAA PPL and I really enjoyed it. I would love to do some more.

[TelBoy]

It looks like the CAA s**t on you from FL3500! Passing a JAA recognized test and then getting a limited C1 - where did that come from??

I guess when you have your medicals now the CAA only do one eye test "well Mr 2close how many fingers do I hold up" and you reply "two in the shape of a V"

Double standards, no practical testing and more BS, how much longer must we endure this?

[Penguin68]

Pampas: go to Gatwick and get them to do an "eyes first" medical - that way if you can't get past Adrian you won't be put through (and charged for) the rest.

I'm no expert but I think your prescription might be classed as monovision which if true would rule you out as far as a JAA class 1 is concerned. You MUST get yourself checked out by Gatwick BEFORE you have LASIK.

That said, I was borderline but was passed last year: my left eye including astigmatism was -5.5 and my right eye was -6.25 BUT my corrected vision was way better than the required standard - I was 9/6 in each eye individually, so basically I got a pass because you could have depowered my right lens and I could still beat 6/6 ... its a rubbish standard.

As for LASIK, I had it done in December 2008 at the University of Miami's Bascom Palmer eye institute which is the #1 eye hospital in America. It cost $5000 and now I'm stable 20/15 in each eye and no halos, although the pupil dilating drops they gave me a week before the op gave me terrible starbursts that took at least a month to wear off. I did visit Dr. Giledi at the Centre For Sight at East Grinstead but I literally ran out of time to get the op done before I left the UK. I was told by my optician in Horsham not to get it done anywhere else in the UK.

If you have the option of working in the USA, the current FAA rules no longer have any restriction on pre-operative refraction. I am told this is because you are highly unlikely to meet the standard post-op if your eyesight is really terrible. In the US, if you had LASIK and are halo free and stable 6/6 or better afterwards you are in.

To make sure I can get a CAA class 1 at a future date (i.e. if there is any point in doing so ... seems unlikely TBH) I went back to Gatwick in April this year to see Adrian again and he passed me post-op - like I said, 6/6 isn't much of a standard to beat.

[flydream]

Hi!
Does anyone know the limits for an initial in Belgium (class 1)?
Read all the 40 pages but couldn't find anything.
I know that it's -6D in the UK and I'm just within the limits,just wondering if it's the same in Belgium...
Tried to call their center today but couldn't get any answer.

Thanks!

[planecrazy.eu]

RMC your son will be fine, and should pass the vision test no problems.

There is a form you can print from the website that you can take to the opticians, get the optician to go through it and you'll get your answer as passing the eye test is more than just meeting perscription requirements.

If he want to be a pilot, then as long as he is old enough, go get the medical now. I, and i know of a few others who wish they would have got the C1 medical sooner rather than later, can make life so much easier.

[Shunter]

The whole CAD test remote control thing makes one wonder if a youth spent being weened on Sonic the Hedgehog and Street Fighter II wasn't wasted after all...

[modhop]

Niall

Do you have a contact number for city university for arranging the test ?

Thanks

Modhop

[inverted123]

Hi, even after getting 1 Plate wrong you have passed you did not have to sit any other tests. It still seems that these testers make there own rules up makes you wonder how many of them want you to pass.

[TelBoy]

Thought some people might be interested in the following link

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/20090618CADForCMOsForum.pdf

To get in touch with the City Uni

Applied Vision Research Centre (http://www.city.ac.uk/avrc/)

[TelBoy]

The UK CAA should accept the anomalascope results if they are within JAA standards as it is a recognised JAA test.

The CAD test has not yet been accepted so they can only give you an idea that you will pass or fail IF the CAD test is ever adopted and using their accepted limits as present.

ponte give them hell to accept the anomalascope results - they WILL accept City Uni results, but they MUST be within JAA standards.

[benjamin.dordoigne]

Any ideas when the new CAD test will be available?

[TelBoy]

I have always had trouble relating the anomalascope results to JAA standards, but the City Uni should be able to tell you.

I have heard that the Dr in Spiez is very thorough and will do an anomalascope test anyhow.

Good luck with it and please share your experiences with us all.

Did you have any trouble getting an appointment in Spiez? all I got in the past was an answer phone message in German, so I never did get to go.

[Captain-Random]

Hey,

I did my class one medical i was asked to read the 4th line which was fine and 5th line which i did but with some strain. However i couldn't read the bottom line. Could anyone guess, to tell me what my eye-sight is?

[smallpilot]

Appreciate any experiences / advice on this.
I was recently diagnosed with acute glaucoma (sometimes called closed angle or narrow angle Glaucoma). Apparently its a sudden condition (symptoms are blurred vision + headaches) which needs immediate treatment. I was seen by the local hospital (specialist eye clinic with a good reputation) and was operated on within 72 hours (YAG lazer). The CAA has temporarily suspended my Class2 until the results of my peripheral eye test and follow-up meeting with the consultant next month.
Anyone else had this or know what the chances are on getting my class2 back?
Appreciate any experiences / advice.
Thanks.

[Penguin68]

"I did my class one medical i was asked to read the 4th line which was fine and 5th line which i did but with some strain. However i couldn't read the bottom line. Could anyone guess, to tell me what my eye-sight is?"

Depends on the chart but I think the 5th line would normally be 20/15 or 6/4.5 which is fine for JAR or FAA class 1. The doc at Bascom Palmer tells me the military pilots she has seen are all 20/10 (6/3) - they can read the bottom line with no problems. Even after $5k of surgery I cant read that line at all.

[TelBoy]

You can get in touch with City Uni here Applied Vision Research Centre (http://www.city.ac.uk/avrc/) or try emailing this lady who is part of the research [email protected]

[d3vski]

Hi,

Ive always wanted to be a pilot since i can remember. Ive been working hard and saving money for the last few years but ive got a serious problem which may put a serious dent in my plans.

Ive worn glasses since i was about 14 years old. The actual vision is only -1.5 in both eyes, so nothing major. Ive know to myself that i was weak in left eye but i assumed that its because im right handed/right footed etc.

so about six months ago, i was about to put my modular plans into action and i went to my Optician for a quick check up. They put me in one of those Visual Field tests and my left eye has about 60% view.

So i got referred to a opthalmist who checked my eyes inside and out and found no physical problem with them. I got transferred to a neurosurgeon who put me through an MRI and it was found that my nerve in the left eye was not developed as it should have been but ive led normal life (driving, sports etc) because my brain is used to only what i see because i was born with the crappy nerve.

I need to ask, in the CAA class 1 medica. what kind of visual test do they do? and more importantly, when it comes to possible airline medicals for jobs, how in depth do they check Visual field?

thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

[Nashers]

the eye test is the main part of the medical renewal when ive done them. you have to get one every year/6 months depending how old you are. other checks like hearing and you heart are done every 5 years i think.

best thing you can do is go and do your class one medical and see what happens. its best to do it before spending any money on flight training as if there is a problem, atleast you have not blown any money away on flying already.

try going through the medical forum as well. im sure there must be a few posts around somewhere in there for you.

[d3vski]

Hi guys, ive always wanted to be a pilot but im born with a nerve that is underdeveloped. My visual field is therefore rubbish (about 60%) in my left eye. I never noticed this as i was born with it and my right eye has compensated since birth.

This is going to sound stupid but i though as i was right handed, my right eye was stronger than my left eye but ive got it checked out by a neurosurgeon who told me that it wont get worse but it will never improve.

Do i have a chance (even a teeny weeny small one) of passing the Class 1 in the UK or should i thank Mother Nature for screwing up my lifelong dream. I have to admit when i found out that there was no chance of improvement in my case, i felt as if my whole life crashed around me.

[Parson]

Your best course of action is to speak to the CAA medical division. They may want to see you before giving a decision. But for goodness sake, don't base any career decisions on heresay or what unqualified people tell you, even if it is well intentioned.

[BoeingMEL]

... sumbit yourself for that Class 1 initial before you spend a penny on flight training!! Good luck anyway bm

[_ShIfTy_]

Hey,

I had a similar problem. I have browns syndrome and have 88% of normal vision in my right eye. I was in and out of the hospital for 8 months getting test's done as I am a rare case apparantly. It was confrimed by the opthamologist from the RVI that I have had it from birth and my brain has adapted to it. I didnt even notice it untill a quick check up before I booked my class 1. The opthamologist wrote me a nice letter to take down to gatwick. At the first medical I was reffered to the CAA opthamologist. After going back down the following month to see him I got my medical cert.

Hope this helps.

PM me if you want more details about my experience.

regards

ShIfTy.

[Hezza]

Hi d3vski,

There are many different eye tests involved with the class 1 at Gatwick, and by visual field i assume you mean how much area you can view in your peripheral vision (100º or 130º etc)? For this, the examiner stood in front of me and made me look straight into his eyes, whilst at the same time waving a metal bar out to his sides. This bar was right on the edge of your peripheral whilst looking straight forward and he would ask you whether it was still or whether he was wobbling it. This was done at various points all around your peripheral vision.

I would certainly go and have the medical before any commercial training, and i think you may even be able to just have the eye test by itself (?!). But whatever you do, be completely honest with them. I was worried about one particular aspect before i went, I put it all down on the form provided, the doctor had a look at it - but was not in the slightest bit concerned about it - and i walked out with my Class 1 certificate :)

Good luck with your training!

Hezza

[d3vski]

Thanks for the replies,

I never had any intention of conducting any training unless i had the class 1.

My problem is my peripheral vision and it has affected my right eye as well because it had to compensate for the left eye. let me try an do a diagram

ox o o o o oo o
o x xxxxxxxxx o
o x x x x x x x o
o x x x xx o
o x xx o
o o ooooooooo

if this is my left eye peripheral vision (everything i can see), xxxx is what i can see.

my right eye is:


ox o o o o oo o
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxx o
oxxxxxxx x x x o
oxxxxxxxxxx 0
o xxxxxxxxx o
o o ooooooooo

i can see far more in my right eye, with both eyes open, i can function normally in everyday tasks like driving and observation within my current job.

[vlieger]

I was in a similar situation as you last year. I was diagnosed to be borderline glaucoma. My eye pressure was basically too high which in time could lead to damage to the optical nerve and eventually loss of peripheral vision. This has not happened so my field tests are just fine.
I talked to the CAA about this and they said to me that if I can pass the field test (which I did), then they don't have any problem with me taking daily eye drops to keep the pressure under control. I just need to send them my field test results every year now.
Your situation is different as you say your left eye has only 60% view. That may be a problem. I would advise you to talk to the CAA directly. They are understanding and there is no point "hiding" information from them.
You will need to have an Estermann field test done. That's a particular field test they prefer which very few high street opticians actually do.
So I'd say talk to the CAA eye department. They will probably tell you to get one of those Estermann tests done. Or you could go to Gatwick for your class 1 medical of course, but you 'd better make sure the 60% vision is not an issue for them (it could well be, I'm afraid), otherwise the fee for the class 1 is a waste of money...
Good luck with it. Don't give up, I got my class 1 Medical in the end. :ok:

[d3vski]

if it is a Esterman test, i can wave my dreams good bye as ive had that at my optician twice and failed. Just to make sure the Opthalmalogist at the Royal Free hospital made me do it 3 x over a 2 week period and i failed every time!

Even the thought of having £35K in my bank account and a good job to ride out the credit crunch does not come close to making me feel good!

I pray my kids are not born with the same problem as i have.

[vlieger]

I'm sorry to hear that you failed the Esterman field test. If I were you I'd still ring up the CAA. One can but try, though as far as I know some countries even refuse to issue you with a driving licence if you fail this test, which, again as far as I know (I may be wrong), is the least stringent of them all.
To be honest, I think you can kiss the class 1 medical goodbye, but look on the bright side: you may well be entitled to a class 2 (check with the CAA but you may want to remain anonymous --> for class 2 medicals you don't need a field test, just an acuity test, nuff said :)) and with 35k in the bank you can do a LOT of private flying. Get a PPL, build some hours, enjoy yourself and travel through the USA or Europe in your own plane -- you might actually have much more fun than pushing buttons in the heavy jets without the added stress of finding a job or be at risk of losing your job.

[Bealzebub]

Socially irresponsible? Whilst I admire your persistance and advocacy of this issue, you are starting to clutch at straws.

Where have you determined that AME's will be required to re-test existing medical holders from? Even if this were to be the case it might only affect a very small number of people for all the reasons you have already stated, so it is hardly an issue. Even if it were an issue for a very small number of existing pilots, as with other deterioration and lower renewal standards, an allowance would almost certainly be made for the compensating factor of significant experience in the role.

These standards are being brought up to date partly in an effort to assist some initial applicants who might previously have failed. More importantly it seeks to bring more uniformity and updated methodology to the testing process.

The argument that the results can be guessed at, is weak, in that most forms of testing can be guessed at. However few candidates are likely to be successful in that endeavour. If AME's are required to invest in new equipment then that is an investment they will need to make, and yes they probably will pass the cost on along with the many other input costs they incur.

You want a formal investigation? Good luck!

[Bealzebub]

Oh dear, I fear we are never going to agree on this issue.

Possibly not, but such is the oft frequent course of civil discourse.

BTW, could you please save me some trouble and let us all know exactly how much of the public's money has been spent on this study. Save me the trouble of a FOIA Request and having to publish the information myself. Thanks.

If I could, I would. I suspect it will be a case of you making a FOI request. I don't have any association with the CAA beyond the normal professional ones.

[abedi]

Hi guys, its interesting to hear what people have been experiencing, but i have a question... i have a slight issue with astigmatism...
I wanted to know whether or not the guidlines meant that the combined correction fell into the pass or the individual parts as in...

My eyesight just tested today gave results :

Right : sphere -2.75, Cylinder -1.75, axis 180
left : sphere -2.00, cylinder -2.00, axis 170
right/left distance acuity: 6/6-1
right/left near acuity: N5
visual fields are full/ ishihara test is pass.

basically i'm borderline just making it in, in terms of astigmatism....but the combined power makes their requirements of -6 dioptres. Will i likely pass or do they really think about it and make me fail?
Im in the process of having my medical history sent off to gatwick to see what they say as i have IBS and was thinking i'll send off a copy of my prescription aswell. any help or words of comfort would be nice!:}

[rogerarr]

Hi,

I would like to know what’s the pre-op requirements for astigmatism, maybe is the same for myopia? That is more than 2 Dioptres.

Thanks in advance.

[planecrazy.eu]

Unless some one can correct me i was told by the AME optician person (dont know their title at gatwick) that it was +/-2.

I was +4.75 +1.75 giving +6.5 and was still given the clear, i failed as my eyes couldnt see the 20/20 line 100%, i only got 3 letters correct.

[Creep Feed Grinder]

Planecrazy,

I've followed this thread for quite a while and your last post intrigues me.
Can I double check?
You have a Class 1 and a prescription that exceeds +5.00
Was this achieved via the deviation route?

Thanks
CFG

[planecrazy.eu]

I was not aware that the CAA do deviated medicals anymore?

My perscription is not above +5, i was trying to say that they cant add sphere and cylinder as if they did mine would be +6.5.

As far as i am aware, and what was told to me by the ame, as long as your sphere is within +5 or -6 and your cylinder is no more than +/-2 then you meet the perscription requirements.

I would be interested if the deviated route is still available as i was told that it was not, and this was by the AME a few years back.

The only way i know that something like this is possible if you have out of limits vision, ie, more than +5 or -6 is to get an FAA C1 Medical and then get it converted to a CAA C1 via revalidation limits, but this is not a clear cut route, and one that there are no set yes or no's, all down the the ame and your history and all that.

[Creep Feed Grinder]

I’m not doubting your own personal experience but according to the standards they do total sphere and astigmatism. Unless I’ve missed something?

If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6 .00 dioptres of short site. This is the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism).

It's astigmatism that puts me marginally (less than yours) out of the limits so I'm sure you can appreciate the impact your post had

[Bealzebub]

No, but maybe I have missed an oportunity!

My interest in this thread first occured about 4 years ago by virtue of a question about "ICAO licences" or some such thing. Subsequent to this and coincidentally my son fell foul of CVD restrictions in applying for a class 2 medical as part of his PPL training. He then went through the additional tests required in seeking to have the CVD4 restriction removed from his class 2, and with a view to applying for a class 1 certificate. It was really an issue that i hadn't given a great deal of thought to up until that point.

Contributions to this thread have been based on my opinions and concerns as they relate to the possibility of flying with, and to that extent relying on, the pilots with a possible CVD deficiancy. In a monochromic environment there clearly wouldn't be an issue, but with aviation and particularly with regard to airline flying, there is. To a large extent this thread clearly contains the comments, observations, reports and opinions of people directly affected by CVD as a condition relevant to themselves. My input attempts to balance some of the argument with a viewpoint from another pilot within a multi crew cockpit environment.

I am not presenting argument for its own sake, and I do support the use of new technology or methodology that seeks to improve some aspect of the whole testing regime. Agree with them or not, like them or not (and in the context of this thread I readily expect it to be not,) they are honest opinions and comment.

Beyond that, I have no involvement with the regulator, or any benefit from the promotion of one test over any other.

[ExaltedAviator]

Hey, I just took my class 3 medical for my private pilots license today. The Aviation doctor said that based off of the test he performed I did not meet the requirement. Now here is my question/dilemma. I had an eye test about a month ago from a real optometrist and had told him I was going to be going to get an Aviation medical soon. I asked him if my eye sight was correctable to 20/20 with lenses and he said yes. So in my medical today I told the doctor about what the optometrist said and I also brought in my prescription that he gave me.

So the Aviation doctor told me I have to go back to the optometrist and get a note saying that I am correctable to 20/20. So how could the Aviation doctor say that I did not pass but the Optometrist said that I should be good.

Also the Aviation doctor made me stand really far away from the board with the letters on it. Its farther then I have ever had to stand for an eye test and there was no markings on the ground to show that was where I was supposed to stand. The doctor kind of just picked a spot and said stand there, next to a bunch of boxes.

[dcvdriver]

hi everyone,

i'm a dcv with an atpl flying on jets.... if you are one too, pm me please...want to talk to you!

thanks

driver

[tigermagicjohn]

Have had similar topic in the past, however there have been changes since last time.
I will recap in brief.

In 2005 I had a laser operation on my eyes. At that time I did not believe I would be going this route in life.
However last year I decided to make the jump, and start a slow change/transition in my life.

Not knowing where I stood with my eyesight, I sent on request of CAA my pre op report, to both UK CAA and Danish CAA. (both JAA)
They responded with different answers.

UK CAA said no, Denmark said yes, so travelled there and after extensive testing of my eyes, I recieved a class 1 JAA there.

I have started ATPL distance learning in Norway - I am living in London UK.
The Danish CAA found out about the assesment from the UK, and requested full report from the UK, which they recieved, and all was ok for Denmark, as they could confirm I had not lied to them, I had not failed a class 1 UK medical, but only had an assesment rejected. The main thing the Danish CAA wanted to know was that I had been truthfull to them.

I did explain the UK situation, as I called the CAA UK, and they told me despite having a Danish JAA class 1 medical, they would not be able to issue me a UK class 1 medical, because in their opinion I was outside the pre op limits.
However the Danish CAA contacted the UK CAA, requesting them to change their desicion, and explaining in a letter to the UK CAA why, with reference to JAR regulations.

However that letter was sent from Danish CAA in February, I recieved a copy, however I have not heard from either CAA since then.

Now I had planned to travel to Norway, to take my CPL/IR and ME, as I have been flying much there before, and is easy access from London. However since all this started we have had a baby daughter 6 months ago, and to be honest I would prefer to do all in the UK, at Stapelford, as this would be easier and more practical for me and my new family.

Now I am in a predicament, what do I do, how can this be solved? I have heard people tell me of "similar stories" where UK CAA have given class 1 medical, however my conversation in Februray seemed to be a very clear no!

Please any suggestions would be welcome. :ugh:

[tigermagicjohn]

I currently have an unrestricted class 1 medical from Denmark (JAA), however due to refractive surgery, Danish CAA and UK CAA disagree regarding my pre-op correction.

Now after some time, there seems to be a possibility of getting a UK Class 1 medical with a deviation, however in the same letter sent from the CAA, they also warn that future EASA regulations, could lead to complete loss of medical and license, in the event EASA would not accept the deviation.

So would EASA really be able to ground all pilots who have been given UK deviations?
Secondly I personally would like to avoid a restriction on my medical, as the Danish CAA have also furnished me an explaniation why I should have unrestricted class 1 medical.

The direct quote from the CAA UK is:

"when EASA implenting rules are adopted by the UK you may lose your right to exercise the priveliges of your UK CAA issued licence and medical certificate."

Now have to admit this really makes me frustrated!

[phillipsmw]

Im in a similar position. I have a UK issued class 1 certificate with a deviation due to LASIK surgery.

I am a couple of years into my flying career and I'm worried about the transition to EASA, and the potential to ultimately lose my employment if things goes awry.

I sent an email to the UK CAA with no response, so if anybody has any insider info please indulge us.

[NurseToPilot]

WHy have you got a Deviation?

I've received a Class 1 Last year following LASIK and have no deviation

My Prescription is within CAA LIMITS after lasik - My Astigmatism is less than -0.50 Diopters

I had a renewal done in July with no problems

JON

[phillipsmw]

I have a deviation because my pre-op refraction in my left eye (-6.00/-1.00) was outside the class 1 limitation of -6.0.

[NurseToPilot]

for myopia not astigmatism...that makes sense

i was astigmatism -3.75D before and -0.50 after but astigmatism does not carry the risk of retinal detachment as does myopia.....

i think this is why you have a deviation then, but correct me if I'm wrong!


JON

[phillipsmw]

True. There is no for pre-op limit for astigmatism, only for the total refractive error: +5.0 to -6.0

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Jabout
At the moment there is no way you can use glasses or contacts or indeed any type of CV correction. IMHO there will be a day when you will be able to use CV correction provide that the correction is of a type that can be worn in the cockpit at all times while flying and allows you to pass all vision tests. We are far from this point at this time and I doubt that it will be available in my career. A lot of work is being done in this arear though.

[JJRMAD]

Hi everyone,
Some weeks ago I was at the Spanish medical center CIMA to do the First Class Medical, all went very well but at the oftalmologic test I could see in my report paper a note wich made me get worried and it said: Hyperphoria 4 dioptres. Then the specialist made me some tests more:

- He stared at my eyes with a light to do the cover test
- I put a glasses with a red lense in one of my eyes and a green lense in the other one, and then I looked to a book to test my stereoscopic vision, everything was well, I could see the typical circles, triangles, butterflies in relief.
- Finally I put my head in something where he stared again at my eyes to measure my ocular tension, asthenopia, and everything was ok again.
Then he put a tick in the gap which said "Normal vergence and fusional perception"

In the JAR-FCL said that I MAY be issued a medical certificate if fusional is ok but depends on what the doctor decides, not who made me the test, another one I couldn't see and who finally decides if I pass or not. My results will be sent me in one or two month, they don't tell you nothing on the same day becasue "results must be evaluated and it takes some time". So now I'm a little worried about this problem I don't know if finally I'll be issued.

Anybody have a similar experience and could tell me what happened??

Thanks in advanced.

PD: Other parameters during my test were:
Visual acuity 1 both eyes and 1 on each eye.
Myopia 1 diopter on each eye
Astigmatism 0,5 on right eye
No tropies.
Good vision of colors.
No surgeries
No significant patologies

[Kestral757]

Hi Guys,

Can anyone please put my mind at ease and tell me if my eyesight will met the inital requirments for the class 1?

R Sph -3.75 Cyl -0.25 Axis 95
L Sph -3.25 Cyl -0.75 Axis 75

I had a contact lense check up recently and that increased R to -4.00, L -3.75

Thanks :)

[JJRMAD]

Hi vestu,

I have the same doubt. See just two post above what I wrote about my experience.

Have you been at CAA Medical Center at Gatwick yet?
They luckily tell you enough info to know about your assesment and specifically on the eye tests the same day you go there. Here in Spain we have to wait "until docs decides within 40 or 50 days since your exmination"

:ok:

[Mickey Kaye]

YES

Hi Guys,

Can anyone please put my mind at ease and tell me if my eyesight will met the inital requirments for the class 1?

R Sph -3.75 Cyl -0.25 Axis 95
L Sph -3.25 Cyl -0.75 Axis 75

I had a contact lense check up recently and that increased R to -4.00, L -3.75

Thanks http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

[pdidi]

Mr. Pape

I salut you!!!!
You are one of my heros when I heard about you some 10 years ago. :ok:

[Paraman1]

tigermagicjohn

just out of interest what was your pre-op error?, iam in a similar position and very confused. My prescription from my optician is R=sph -3.25 cyl -1.5 and L= sph -3.25 cyl -2.0 which reading the guidlines would just pass me, however i went to a lasik clinic and was told my astigmatism was -3.0 and -2.75 (sph remained the same)which would obviously not pass the class 1 if i went through with the surgery.

Does anybody know exactly how your eyes are tested for the class 1, is it similar to opticians or do they use topography scanning like at the lasik clinics?

Many thanks

[Paraman1]

Mickey Kaye

looking at the caa eyesight data I would say you were well within the limits:ok:

[bmw-rated]

Good eve!
Could anyone confirm that this is correct?

Is it still accepted in Australia or anywhere else?

Is there any other accepted way to practically demonstrate the ability to "perform all air man duties safety"? How? Will it remain allowed?

best wishes to everyone

[dcvdriver]

hey?

would casa accept a letter proving that i passed a tower test done in usa without further examinations?
or would i have to repeat the exam in australia?

thanks

driver

[bmw-rated]

thanks a lot for the answere,
does anyone know if there are plans to change that? (Fedex Crash......)

best wishes

[dtk300]

My Current vision prescription is:

Left eye -5.00 diopters
Right eye -5.50 diopters

I did my class 1 medical a week ago in Dublin, Ireland. The opth wrote down on the file:

Left eye -5.75
Right eye -6.00

THEY ARE NOT THE PRESCRIPTION IN MY GLASSES!

I am afraid i will fail the class 1 now because of that. I have confimed with my opth in Ireland who is a Professor in eyesight since 1986. I think he knows what he's doing. What should I do if i fail? I have wanted to be a pilot all my life! This means the world to me!

[maccoretti]

Are the rules for NZ the same as Australia?
I've been searching hard to find out and came accross this:

http://www.caa.govt.nz/fulltext/medical/medical_manual_vol1.pdf

It mentions that a medical can be granted with a SODA.
Sorry for the dumb question but I am an aspiring pilot wannabe and wouldn't mind knowing if I can pass with a signal light test in NZ.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Hi guy's. Well I would like to agree with the last two posts. If enough CVD pilot wannabees stand up and ask for the system to be changed it will succeed in time. In an earlier post a writer said "change the with Papi light to blue" well thats not as stupid as it sounds. Rules and definitions change almost daily in aviation and I am sure that if the colours of the lights were to be changed to those that cause less of a problem to the CVD pilot we would all adapt without so much as a wimper.

The colours would need to be chosen very carefully though.

Ponte: I know of no US or Ausie airline that tests for CV in there medicals.
SN

[Piper19]

Ok, so I'm reading a bit through this all. I have a PPL with class2 medical, restricted to day flying and no IFR, due to color deficiency. No class 1 could be given to me 5 years ago (in belgium that was).
Is there any hope for me to get a CPL license? Are the examining techniques changed and if I pass a new test, would I receive a class 1 even if they refused it a few years ago?
What are my options within europe?
I'm getting a bit confused by reading this all, and I don't want to get false hope guys...

[planecrazy.eu]

Many have had their dreams of flying spoilt by poor vision, and many have got over it and gone on to do something they love and enjoy, even though at the time it may have seemed like the end of the world as flying is all they have ever wanted to do.

I cant see why you would fail? -6 is the limit, you fall in this. If you can see 20/20 with correction, you should be ok.

Dont matter whats in you frames, it matters what the AME optician thinks should be in your frames.

My optician got me .25 of a dioptre higher than the ame got me.

My issue was not perscription in the end, but the ability to read the 20/20 line with correction. Maybe too many years of tv and computer messed my distance vision up...

[kerman]

If I have -9 (sph-6 cyl-3) refractive error on each eye, and I can read 20/20 using -6 correction lens, its this fine?

I mean, doesn't it matter the -9 as long as you can read 20/20, with no more than -6 (up to 2 cyl) diopters correction?

Thnaks.

[maccoretti]

Complete info for NZ testing is here: http://www.caa.govt.nz/fulltext/medical/2-1-Eye.pdf page 41 onwards

[petiule]

Hi everybody:),
Is there anyone who made it thru medical class 1 after laser eye surgery:confused:? How bad was your vision before the surgery and how good was its result? I myself underwent such surgery (abbreviated PRK) 13 years ago and it changed my refraction on both eyes from -7 to -1.25 diopters (stabilized). Since the limit for aspiring pilots with myopia to pass the vision requirements at initial medical class 1 are -6 to +5 diopters before surgery(!) I am definitely disqualified:=...unless I lie to examining doctor and say that my refraction before PRK was -5 diopters or so. Any chance to get away with such lie?
Thanks for any opinions and helpful information. Good luck at your medicals:ok:.
Petr, Czech Republic.

[acaresea]

According to the EASA NPA it will no longer be possible for a color "unsafe" to get an IR since the night qualification is required and the nq requires the license holder to be color safe. Has anybody else noticed this? (I did comment that the IR should at least be available as daytime only for CVD pilots) If anybody has connections into the FCL008 group they should try to get this option inserted already from the beginning.

Anyhow, maybe one should hurry before the new regulations enter into effect?
From the thread I gather that some people have managed to get the nq with a safety pilot for the solo part and then gone on to the IR. Has somebody managed this in Sweden or are we talking UK only? Translation and interpretation of the JAR is not always the same (and as far as I understand the JAR is not really applied currently). Any advice as to how one goes about getting the nq in practice would be much appreciated!

[planecrazy.eu]

An sph of -6 would be acceptable, but a cyl of -3 would not as this does not fit the criteria for JAA.

Not really up with FAA, but have been told that you can be over the JAA limits as long as you can read 6/6 or 20/20 with the FAA C1.

----

I thought you have to take you pre-laser optician reports? I would be interested to know on this one?

If you have "lost" you pre-laser reports you cant give them. Not sure if they would keep your records for 13 years?

I dont think it would be possible to determine your pre-laser vision? or would it?

I bet they can tell you have had laser, but can they?

If they can tell you have had laser and you dont have pre-op documents they may just refuse you on that.

I think this is an interesting situation.

[parislad]

Although the RAF state that decent eyesight is obviously required to work for them as a Pilot, they state that their selection process works on a case-by-case basis. I am short sighted in both eyes; my contact lens prescription is -1.5, don't know what my glasses are (if they are different). I'm 17 years old.
I would guess that this means I'm a nono for the eurofighter but do they still take on for rotary and transport? Is there any leniency for small-to-medium short sightedness if your proficiencies in other areas make up for it?

[airmig83]

Hi guys!
This is my first post here and like the most of you I am wondering if I can get a JAA class I medical.

I have high degree of myopia (nearsightedness: can see near objects clearly but distant ones blurred) with my contact lenses prescription as followed:

R - 4,5 (let's say it's 5.0)
L - 5,5 (let's say it's 6.0)

Since I can't get a reply from any portuguese AME or other authority, could someone clearly say to me if I am within the limits?

The JAR-FCL 3 talks about a limit at the initial exam of -6.00 to +5.00
the -6.00 is relative to myopia or to hyperopia (long-sightedness)?

Will I make it?

Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
-Miguel (PT)

[acaresea]

Ponte,

It is all in the NPA 2008-17A/B

[dtk300]

Passed Class 1 medical, no bother!

Got through initial, so the renewals should be grand.

Hope everyone gets on as good as I did!!

Airline Pilot here I come!! :)

[HeathrowAirport]

Who reckons I can appeal Against CAA decision. To the Cheif Medical Advisor.

If you have substandard vision in one eye due to amblyopia (a ‘lazy’ eye), you can gain a Class 2 certificate if the visual acuity in the ‘bad’ eye is no worse than 6/18 and the visual acuity in the ‘good’ eye is 6/6 or better, which can be with correction.

Left Eye: 6.00D 6/18 Right Eye: 6/3 D5.25

Its worth the try? Then I can do my JAR PPL Instead of an NPPL and get night ratings etc?

And Ive just noticed Substandard vision in one eye
Professional pilots
Currently under review.
Private pilots
Currently under review.

[danielm]

Hi all mates,

I would like to remark what Dr. Arthut Pape posted. He was very useful and has lot of experience in Australia and colorvision tests.
We should create a color defective pilot list and gather against currency regulations; all of us who has this color problems know for sure that we can safely flight every airplane at day or night, even better than most of pilots do.
I can't understand how different are the standars in each country; flying an airplane is the same anywhere. ICAO should work HARDER on this.
US allow pilots to take a signal light test at the airports... I would like to know how many pilots use this lights nowadays, many of them don't even remember what colors mean. This signal lights where used in the beginning of aviation where airplanes don't have radios. It can't never be used in IFR conditions and i can assure you that pilots approaching an airport can't even see this tiny lights from the tower.
Keep posting and disscussing this topic; if we stop, the world aviation will lose millions of incredible and passionate pilots.

Daniel

[airmig83]

Congratulations dtk300!
That's great news since I also have similar diopters as you have and was wondering if I could get through the medical :)

Regards

[flex50]

for those interested in LASIK watch out the video on the link below:


GOOD LUCK FELLAS...........!!! :ok:

[JAF0]

Has anyone here had Neurovision treatment for amblyopia?
my eyes are 6/6 (20/20) 6/12 (20/40)

From what I've been reading, theres not meeant to be a whole lot you can do about it, and this seems too good to be true if it does whats it supposed to do.

[AnthonyGA]

Are these tests administered to both male and female candidates?

[Shunter]

Why wouldn't they be?

[AnthonyGA]

Some people incorrectly believe that women cannot be color-blind. Doctors know better, but bureaucrats may not, so I was curious.

The online sample of the new test is interesting. It seems pretty objective. I hope it is administered on carefully calibrated equipment.

[tingtang]

Hi all

I have a JAA CPL and current UK CAA class 1 medical. I fly for an airline but have a window of no flying and am thinking of getting laser eye surgery at Moorfields Eye Hospital.

Can anyone who is a current airline pilot please comment on their experiences with getting their eyes fixed with laser and work etc?

I have read the caa document stating my medical will be suspended for 3 months if I have lasik so I just want to hear from other people on this.

Thanks very much

Will

[FltSgt88]

Evening all,

I am about to go for my class 1 medical but i have astigmatism http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif

The requirements state that you have vision of 6/9 each eye and 6/6 together, and that refractive error must not excede 2 dioptres for astigmatism.

My question is that with the maximum allowable correction, i do achieve the required vision however my full prescripition is larger than 2 dioptres astigmatism....will this be an issue..or will i be ok as long as i can read the letters with less than my full prescription such that i'm in limits.

Many Thanks

[tigermagicjohn]

I have just been informed that the "limit" +5 for refractive error, might be changed in the not so distant future. A chief medical JAA doctor informed me this in writing. So for you who are outside those limits, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And if you are border line, now is the time to go for it, before EASA takes over.

It was from a chief medical abroad, + I know from first hand information that UK CAA also are working to get the refractive error limitiations removed, and make it more similar the FAA.

Again the wording is maybe maybe, but the glass is half full, and not half empty.:D

[TelBoy]

A middle button????? there was only 4 when I took it. Top Left, Top Right, Bottom Left and Bottom Right - where the hell did the middle button come from!

Humm not another shift of the goal posts.

[ODMEA]

Hi there dtk300

Because you are 16 your myopia is most likely to progress i.e a good chance you will become more Myopic. I think your ophthal may have considered that.


Hey JAFO

Amblyopia (decresed vison in one or both eyes due to a refrcative error, manifest strabismus-(turn in the eye) or pathology/disease in one or both eyes)after about the age of 9 is untreatable(some studies suggest up till 12). The visual cortex(part of the brain that does the 'seeing') is what we call 'plastic' up until the above age. This is why you see lots of kids with eye patches and undergoing therpay as the visual coretx can still be manipulated to bring about equal or at least better vision in one or both eyes, usually by an orthoptist because there is still a high chance that with good treatment and a compliant patient vision can be rectified with therapy, glasses and surgery(or any combination thereof). At your age the chances are highly unlikey that you will achieve any better vision. Be careful before you spend $ on a treatment that may be a pure gimmick. Consult an Ophthalmologist and /or Orthoptist first.

Beware any treatment from 'behavioural optometrists' this is usually very costly and may have little if any benefit.

Oddy

[JamesPUK]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if somone may be able to help me.
My presciption is SPH -2 CYL -3 / SPH -2.25 CYL -3.15, which clearly puts me over the 2 dioptres of astigmatism limit as specified by the CAA in order to pass the initial visual standards for a Class 1.

My question is, is there a l@ser procedure that would correct my astigmatism sufficiently to allow me to gain a Class 1? And has anyone been successful in this?

I'm a student, finishing my degree at the moment. I will be in contact with the CAA this week to discuss the matter with them but was hoping I may get some feedback on here too.

Thanks for any information.

James

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Does anyone know if Qantas, QantasLink or JetStar do there own CV testing? I note from their website that they require an unrestricted class one. Just wondering if they take it any further with the CV thing?

[eastern wiseguy]

[QUOTE]Personally I would have refused to take the test,[QUOTE]


Not sure that that is/was an option. The ATCO medical is the same Class one as aircrew...at least until we got this diktat a few weeks back.

I guess I will see what my AME says in a week or two.:rolleyes:

[panpanpan105]

I was looking through the latest EASA Notice of Proposed Amendments June 2008, so kind of recent ish.

It looks as though the requirement to be grounded for 3 months after having LASIK has been removed from the text. If anyone has an old copy of the EASA rules dated before June 2008, maybe you could compare the text to confirm it was there before and that now it has been removed?

I also understand that the UK CAA may well be adopting the EASA proposals sooner, be it eye sight related or whatever EASA changes are in the pipeline. It would be very handy if the 3 month grounding post LASIK was to be dropped as the FAA and every other Aviation Authority have done, as loosing your medical for 3 months is a problem for those who are in current employment.

It looks like its gone from the EASA Rules anyway. Does anyone know for sure what the UK CAA are thinking of doing with regards to the 3 month? I cant get through to them to ask as they never pick up the phone!

[Creep Feed Grinder]

Reading tigermagicjohn’s post above it sounds like the future ‘might’ be optimistic for anyone over +5.00. Does anyone else have more detail of what the future holds. I gather that ICAO sight requirements are soon to be applied to class 2 medicals but class 1 is staying broadly speaking the same.

Tiger,did the JAA Doc. actually use the word might?

[EGBKFLYER]

An applicant with imbalance of the ocular muscles (heterophorias) exceeding (when measured with usual correction, if prescribed)...:

This is taken from FCL 3. Can anyone clarify if the limits for heterophoria apply WITH the relevant prism correction, as appears to be stated? I.e. if someone can be successfully corrected to within the limits, the degree of heterophoria without correction is immaterial?

Thanks.

[HeathrowAirport]

Really, So I might be within luck then? What about my Amblyopia Issue?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Has anyone had any experience with any asian operators such as Cathay? Just wondering how they go since they seem to recruit quite a lot from Australia?
SN

[WELCO]

Really, So I might be within luck then? What about my Amblyopia Issue?


Visual - Substandard vision guidance | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=4549)

Keep checking the above link for updates. And don't forget that after the handover of licencing to EASA, they might also come up with amendments in this regard. They already have some particular set of licencing and medical issues that are subject to review.

Good luck.

[belowradar]

Rahbanni330

Why don't you spend a few minutes reading the last few pages of this thread as the answer to your question is very clearly posted

[gijoe]

Tel,

Did they charge for sending you the results?

G :confused:

[TelBoy]

No charge - he emailed me the results.

[JJRMAD]

Hi everyone, particularly EGBKFLYER

I'd just like to say that yesterday I got my class1 medical certificate and I have heterophoria out of limits but I could succesfully pass the fusional vergence test, it was about stereoscopic vision. Therefore I'd like to say to people who have the same doubt I had about heterophorias that if you have one kind of heterophoria out of limits but you don't suffer from double vision and have a good stereoscopic vision (images in relief) you will pass.

EGBKFLYER, the limits of heterophorias apply with correction no matter what you have without it but what they really worth is your vergence fusional, I mean a good binocular vision, as I said before you show it through double vision test or stereoscopic vision.

I hope my experience help everyone with heterophorias.

:ok:

[WELCO]

I had about heterophorias that if you have one kind of heterophoria out of limits but you don't suffer from double vision and have a good stereoscopic vision (images in relief) you will pass.



I'm afraid that's not accurate. Stereotypic vision is not a requirement for JAA class 1 medicals. Yes, you will get tested for stereopsis but only for the record. Total loss of stereotypic vision won't be a limitation.


Cheers.

[JJRMAD]

Yes you're right, that's an extra test, if you pass it'll be shown you have good binocular vision no matter your heterophoria, whereas if you fail this test I think you have a last opportunity to show your binocular vision by Worth test (http://www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/courses/Pictures/jskill19.jpg) or similar test. As you said it's for record to show your binocular vision.

:ok:

[TelBoy]

15.6 SNU and the pass is 6!

[EGBKFLYER]

JJRMAD - thanks very much for your reply. I know it will be a big relief to the person concerned.:ok:

[TelBoy]

Hummm 2 years ago it was £40 for the CV tests - and that was an increase from £30!

[Zaphod the 0th]

Hi,

I'm hopefully soon to be starting PPL training in the UK (within the next 6 months if all goes to plan) and have some questions about the Class 2 Medical, after reading up on it on the CAA website. In particular to do with the eyesight requirements, given I currently wear glasses.

How do the CAA Class 2 eyesight requirements compare to the UK driving test eyesight requirements of being able to read a "post September 2001" style number plate at 20.5 metres?

I believe I saw on the CAA website that if you need to wear glasses you're required to carry two pairs with you on board at all times. If this is correct, does that mean you have to carry two "normal" pairs of glasses, or will one pair of normal/clear glasses and one pair of prescription sunglasses suffice (assuming no night flying)?


Thanks for the help

[Tony1961]

Does anyone have any answers to my question?

[Shunter]

Tony, there's no such thing as a medical conversion. If it's your first JAA class 1, you do the full routine at Gatwick. Do you have a reference for the "renewal" route? I've never heard of it; it's something which would have without doubt been mentioned before on this particular thread were it a feasible strategy.

[johnuk]

Zaphod,

The biggest difference between the eyesight requirements for driving & for flying is the fact that for flying in the UK your *uncorrected* vision is taken into account.

For a PPL you need a class 2 medical, which means your prescription must be between +5 and -8.

Regarding the "reading of a number plate" for driving, I think the standards are probably about the same for flying; I remember having to read letters on a chart, but not sure if it is exactly the same as driving standard or not. Very similar anyway.

If you wear glasses or contact lenses, then you also need to carry 1 spare pair of glasses with you in the cockpit.

I decided I wanted to learn to fly about 10 years ago (just PPL, not interested in CPL). I phoned the CAA medical people at Gatwick & told them my prescription (very long-sighted; +5.00 in one eye, +5.50 in the other). They told me that my eyesight was outside the accepted range even for PPL, & that there was no way I would ever be allowed to fly - end of story.

However, whilst talking to a flying instructor one day at an air show, I was given the number of a nearby doctor who could do CAA medicals; I went to see him & told him about one of my eyes being worse than +5.00; he simply replied "yeah, but your other eye is within the limit so don't worry about it." He gave me my medical certificate & I've now had nearly 10 years of happy flying! If I had just listened to the CAA person at Gatwick I would never have got my licence.

I've also had LASIK surgery a few months ago. While my eyesight now is more or less perfect, I'm concerned about whether or not I'll be able to renew my medical, as I've just been reading about how the "pre-LASIK prescription" must not be worse than +5.00 (the original doctor I saw has since sadly died, so I need to find another doctor who is flexible on this; I'm sure if I went to Gatwick to get my renewal I would fail).

John

[Dr Jekyll]

I knew 2 people who got class 2 medicals from a doctor at a North London airfield a few years ago. Both spectacle wearers, they said the doctor didn't ask to see a prescription but just guessed the correction from the uncorrected vision. One of them was borderline in reality, but the guessed prescription had him well inside the limits.

Mind you, that doctor is now in prison for unconnected reasons.

[Zaphod the 0th]

If you wear glasses or contact lenses, then you also need to carry 1 spare pair of glasses with you in the cockpit.


Thanks for replying, johnuk. For the "spare pair" rule can the spare pair be prescription sunglasses, or must both be clear, normal glasses?

[johnuk]

Zaphod,
I've just found this on the CAA's website

( Guidance on using sunglasses | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=9244) )

"....All pilots requiring a spectacle prescription must have one clear pair of correcting lenses but can have prescription sunglasses as their second pair. The wearing of plano sunglasses on top of prescription glasses is not acceptable. For night flying, it is recommended that both pairs of prescription glasses are without tint."

Hope this helps you.
John

[Zaphod the 0th]

Thanks for the reply John, I must have missed that.

[bmw-rated]

You´re not the only one. I fully agree (just as many others)

[HeathrowAirport]

If you have substandard vision in one eye due to amblyopia (a ‘lazy’ eye), you can gain a Class 2 certificate if the visual acuity in the ‘bad’ eye is no worse than 6/18 and the visual acuity in the ‘good’ eye is 6/6 or better, which can be with correction. If you do not meet these requirements you should be aware that the National Private Pilots Licence does allow pilots with monocular vision to fly light fixed wing aircraft.I cannot remember the old Class 2 requirements but they have since changed when I was told I would never fly a plane legally as a pilot by the CAA, this wrecked me for a while but does anyone think I should re-appeal?

Left eye 6/18 with mixed letters (if your a specialist you know what I mean) and single space out letters (6/12) were my right is 6/3 (Better than 6/6)

They may however knock me down on my correction, but Ill have to write to them - does anyone have the contact details for the Cheif Medical Examiner at Gatwick? So I can appeal against there decision.

Becuase I believe EASA rules are now in Immediate affect? http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/JARClass2VisStdsSep09.pdf


Kindest Regards,

Robbie

[Tsuen Wan Pilot]

Hi everyone , I wonder if someone received lasik 7 years ago will be recruited to be a cadet. Then after his vision has been perfectly normal, no sequeal,
refraction B4 surgery RE -2.25 LE-2.50
refraction after surgery RE 06/6 - 0.25 OR 6/5
LE 06/6 - 0.50 6/5+

Could any fans advise me about this???

THX:8

[WELCO]

Tsuen Wan Pilot

Looks like you meet the requirements for visual acuity under JAA/EASA medicals. For the refractive error, you are within the acceptable limits. No worries for you I guess.


Cheers

[Tsuen Wan Pilot]

Hi WELCO,
:D
Thx for yr advice, but I wonder if I can pass the Hong Kong 's Class 1, ( I did pass the class 1 in Australia). I wanna know the Hong Kong CAD's attitude towards lasik and the CX's attitude as well, since China's and Taiwan's aviation authorities will not allow a person who have received Lasik to get a flying job within their country( meaning I can't work inside China & Taiwan )....... be alert for those who might want to get a job in China (or some asian counties as well), think twice B4 receiving any eye correction surgery...........!!!

I welcome any fans here can advice me about this....!!

THX for yr concern

[Riddo]

Hello all,
I plan to start training very soon -zero to hero but before i start i thought it prudent to do the Class 1 med...

Results: Passed it just about, re right eye is amblyopic (lazy eye), and visual acuity is 6/9 right and 6/6 left. fantastic!!
As i just barely passed the IAA initial it was suggested by a friend that i do the CAA med as a second opinion ( seems futile now), which i did as ill be investing alot in training and want to be sure i'm fit.
Went to the U.K. to do an initial exam and failed because my right eye was 6/12 and could not be corrected to 6/9..
The standards should be the same of course !!! So passed one and failed the other!!
I plan to fly in Ireland (train in U.K./USA) but not sure how this will affect me down the line , i can resit CAA med but at the time had to get specalist while i was there at initial and he failed me..not sure if i'll pass reassessment..
Any advice really really appreciated, has anyone experience of this?

Dave.

Ref initial eye standards: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/InitialJARClass1Sep09.pdf

[ab33t]

This topic has been covered ad nauseum on this forum just do a search and you will find loads of info. I am in the same situation , all you can do is what you have said , go down to Gatwick or the Eye Institute near Elephant and Castle they do an intensive test as well .

[kenparry]

I can only advise from a pilot, not a medical perspective. Having failed a Class 1 initial, I think you would be extremely unwise to put any money at all into professional pilot training unless you find some specialist medical expertise to alleviate the problem, and with some long-term assurance.

I think you will find that CAA will keep your records, so you will not be able to go for another attempt without their knowing what has happened up to now, so they will look at you very closely.

Probably not what you want to hear, but that's my view. Others might see it differently?

But, good luck.

[Riddo]

Hi Ab33t , Kenparry,

Thanks for your replies,
I obviously want to be 100% sure before i start training, i want this real bad !! you know the way..was just confused as to why i passed IAA med and failed CAA..
Best option i gather is to go to another specialist and get another opinion and there view on the long term prospects.
If looks ok ill do resit of CAA eye exam...


so close yet so far damn!!

[FLAP ZERO]

Hi. After failing the class 1 initial (eyes only exam) at Gatwick owing to too much astigmatism I had LASIK in both eyes 3 months ago. It was a case of risk it or give up on a lifelong dream so it was an easy decision for me. Intralase flap creation and custom wavefront. Results are better than 20/20 in each eye with virtually no astigmatism. However, at night I can still see small starbursts around bright lights such as brake lights and LEDs in a dark room, plus small halos around street lights and headlights.

Has anyone had these problems 3 months post LASIK and found that they resolved subsequently?

The symptoms are a little better now than they were 2 months post op and much, much better than immediately post op.

Also, are Gatwick likely to fail me again if I see ANY starbursts/halos, even if they are not "problematic". I can drive just fine for example and don't anticipate a problem with say, PAPI lights. I wonder how they test for these things?

I'm sure that you can understand that I am reluctant to ask an AME at this point...

[MarcoB.]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and I'm going to ask you because I can't find a solution out of my problem!! This is my story:
Last september I went to Sweden for the JAR medical examination but unfortunatly I've been rejected due to hypermetropia +4 from my right eye. For this reason I asked a doctor at the swedish CAA if there was something I could do to fix my problem and if there was still a way to become a pilot! He told me about a surgery which substitute the eye lence with a new one.. I didn't quite understand what it was about, but he also said you do that kind of surgery on old people, so I forgot about that. He also said that I could go to the States, get the FAA CPL and after that ask for the JAR 1 class certiticate.. For this reason I decided to get a second opinion and contacted the english CAA. Well, they wrote me that there's nothing I can do, there's no surgery to fix my problem ( which is weird because I asked an oculist here in Italy and he told me that there's this surgery called LASIK , but I'm still too young for it - I'm 19 y.o.- ) and wished me all the best for any career I'll decide to do! WHAT?! I guesss they didn't understand that this is my life! I've been dreaming of this since I was a child and I don't wanna give up! I wrote to the swiss CAA and to a dutch doctor as well and currently I'm waiting for a reply. Therefore I'm asking you!
What can I do??

[FLAP ZERO]

The CAA document states that there must be no problems with glare following LASIK. Do they do a tangible test for that or is it entirely subjective?

I see a small starburst in my left eye at night, although for me it isn't a "problem". I'm worried that I will fail. Again...