VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)

[RMarvin86]

I don't understand what your refractive error is, but your visual acuity is satisfactory. What you stated are the initial examination requirements, remember that after, for revalidation and renewal you have no refractive error limits as long as your visual acuity with or without lenses reflects those specified for the initial examination. I would not make worries if I was you!

[daria-ox]

I had my eye test today !

And there's nothing wrong with my eyes apart from the fact that on both eyes Im a little bit long sighted (+0.75), and the CAA maximum is +5.00 so no problem with that one! apart from the fact i will need glasses when Im over 50 years because it may get worse up to +1.50 or so. But I will still meet the requirements.

You wont have any problems with your Class 1 Medical. You meet the requirements. You are -1/-3 short sighted but this wont cause a problem until you're probably 50 too. The CAA maximum short sight is -6 so no problem with you too! and stop stresssing, before today you can't even imagine how nervous I was.!

[JohnRayner]

Well, your visual acuity seems fine, so that's not an issue.

What's your actual prescription in dioptres for each eye? With unaided visual acuity like that I suspect it will be fine, but the CAA medical call center people will want to know those numbers when you make the call.

As stated, subsequent revalidation is not based on exactly the same criteria as for the initial medical, I think this is to take into account that everything gets a little worse as you get older

[docash1983]

As far as I understand it the readings were - 0.75 in the right and - 0.3 in the left, so well within the acceptable range.

thanks for your comments so far

[JohnRayner]

Given mine are -2.75 and -4.50 and they STILL gave me my little piece of paper when I went to aviation house, I'd have thought your eyes will be fine.

[DB777]

A very interesting read for me today.

For years I have been looking for either a way to better my eyesight or for the JAA/CAA to change the parametres for the visual standards.

Only a few hours ago I think I may have found the way...

This is my current prescription

Right:
Sph +0.75
Cyl - 6.75
Axis 25

Left:
Sph 0.50
Cyl -4.50
Axis 152.5

I had this test 3 weeks ago, the optician at the time recommended that to save myself a fortune on lenses in the future I should consider LASIK. Pilot ambition aside, I went along today and had the examination. They can do it - they can correct my vision entirely.
With my ambition in mind I have just tried working out the current LASIK limits for a Class 1 Medical.

The way I read it, I need a year under my belt before I will be considered for a medical, although if i've read my prescription correctly, I may be just outside on my pre refractive prescription.

Bottom line is I need the surgery, and will be getting it anyway. The funny thing is on Sat I am starting my first lesson for my NPPL.

Can anyone on here confirm my thoughts on my prescription?

Thanks in advance.

p.s, good luck with your ambition too docash1983

[sapperkenno]

Greetings all.
My prescription for eyeglasses used to be -5.25 each eye, but my contact lenses were only -4.5 so I might have been able to pass the Class 1 on that.

To cut a long story short, I had the Lasek procedure in January 2007 and after a short recovery period (around 6 weeks) I was, and still am able to read the line below 20/20 (6/6) on the eye charts. Not bad considering I'd previously only been able to manage the top letter (easily-ish) and second line down with an allmighty squint. I had astigmatism, which was also corrected.

At the time I had a PPL and Class 2, so called the CAA to tell them of my surgery and faxed them a report from the laser surgery place in Leeds showing I had no ill effects and wanted to make an appointment for a Class 1. They needed proof that my eyes were stable, and suitable for the class 1 and also so that they could remove the corrective lense requirement from my class 2 medical certificate. They said this wouldn't be a problem so I went for the class 1 in October.

I passed and my eyes were the least of my worries. The Doctor there (German guy) was impressed and said it was very hard to tell I'd actually been operated on, and that if I hadn't mentioned it they probably would never have noticed it! He even called another doctor to come in and have a look. He too said it was very hard to see any signs of surgery.

I'd thoroughly recommend the procedure to anyone. It costs a fair bit, but at 23 years of age I'd probably spend a lot more over my lifetime on lenses/glasses anyway, and it's nice to have perfect eye-sight now. So to anyone considering, I'd say go for it.

I was in the military at the time (British Army - they didn't like me having the surgery one bit) and the CAA seemed to be pretty anal considering that the FAA and US military are ok with it (the US military even have their own laser surgery centers for their personel). Hopefully as lasik/lasek continues to prove itself they'll ease back a little on been so restrictive.

Regards, Lew

[David Horn]

Docash - it shouldn't be an issue provided you can read the chart at the initial Class 1 unaided. I have virtually the same prescription as you and can achieve 6/6 without glasses, but found the chart at Gatwick very tough to read.

I will be renewing it out in the States and having already been for an FAA Class 3 out here (virtually the eyesight equivalent of "How many fingers am I holding up?"), I know I'm achieving 6/5 in one eye and 6/6 in the other, but Gatwick tested me at 6/9 and 6/6 respectively.

[Mickey Kaye]

DB777

I would be very careful about having lasik with the amount of astigmatism you have. The results are not as predictable as with simple myopia.

I would speak to the CAA medical department big time before you go ahead.

Personally I wouldn't have LASIK in the first place I feel LASEK is better. I also regard wavefront technology as a must as in theory it minimizes post surgical drop in visual acuity.

[DB777]

I am having wavefront technology, with LASIK.

I've got to have it anyway, I sit behind a computer all the time and am having issues in general with my eyes. The added bonus is that I may be able to pursue the license I want. WIll have to see.

The problem is no has a definitive answer. everything seems to contradict everything!
According to the latest Visual standards for both Class 1 and 2 visuals LASIK requires less certification time than LASEK. Would that suggest that the process is deemed more reliable?
I realise my prescription is quite high but surely time tells?

The examiner didn't recommend LASEK, just LASIK. I have know idea which is safer. (They sell it to you by offering a lifetime's insurance of the surgery!)

I will approach a local AME before I decide to have a Medical though. Worst case scenario i'll just haev to make the most of my NPPL (Once I get it!)

[NurseToPilot]

Hi.... Have a look for my post on LASIK.... search for it near the and of VISION THREAD..... title is LASIK ... SUCCESSFUL.... or search for posts by me...

I've had it done and got my Class 1... but there are LOTS to consider... one being HALOs and GLARE....

You need your Flap to be cut larger than your largest pupil size - what i mean by this is they should measure your maximum pupil dilation in darkness with an infra red reader / measuring device (Mine was 8mm) and cut the flap accordingly and marginally bigger so my flaps were cut 9mm so that even in pitch darkness i WONT get halos as the flap scar is well away from the edge of my pupil

I'm a nurse who worked in Ophthalmology and have done lots of research into Lasik - do not take it lightly is my advice and if you have any specific questions about anything re the above please contact me as i can recommend somewhere you could go get it done...

DONT believe the hype that ULTRALASE do it from £395 per eye as its not true...... my quote was £1889 PER EYE!!

I eventually got another company to do it BOTH eyes for £1900

Hope some of this helps


JON

[NurseToPilot]

Hi

No pilot flies with one eye closed therefore any deficiency in one eye will be cancelled out by the other as long as your overall acuity is 6/6 with or without correction you will be fine...

You do not mention your prescription here are you able to post it? Your astigmatism can be up to 3.00 diopters in reality. Its 2.00 for initial however if you are higher than 2.00 at initial you may be granted a Class 1 With Deviation until you qualify / renew where the deviation will be removed if the astigmatism falls 3.00 or below.

I've had laser surgery (Lasik) to correct an astigmatism of -3.75 which was well out of any limits set by CAA. Its also corrected my prescription of +2.00 and -1.75.

If I can help with anything else drop me a PM... As I've been through the system in the last year having failed my Class 1 last year and passed it this year..

Hope this helps

JONATHAN

[NurseToPilot]

Lasik is better as far as results are concerned but riskier as you have an actual flap cut in the front of your eye that is lifted like a door - the laser is applied to the corneal surface then the flap is positioned back....

it sticks in less than 5 mins... however you are at risk of dislodging it for up to 2 weeks if you rub your eyes.

LASEK is more painful as the epithelial surface is effectively lasered directly onto it..... meaning its more sensitive for a lot longer.

There is no evidence that WAVEFRONT is better and it is very much OVER SOLD by the big companies such as ULTRALASE and OPTICAL EXPRESS as they want to sell sell sell....

In fact the complication of WAVEFRONT is that it can make the surface abberations that it claims to smooth out TOO CORRECT and your vision will actually be worse. Your brain over years has become used to slight abberations (bumps and troughs in the surface / imperfections) and has compensated for them.... If you suddenly correct them and get rid of all of them then you might find that its not as effective.

If you want more advice on this please contact me and i could put you in contact with the surgeon that did my lasik.

I found him through a consultant at my hospital - and in my opinion word of mouth recommendations in this type of situation counts a lot more than statistics and marketing.!

JONATHAN

[NurseToPilot]

-5.00 SPHERE and -0.25 CYL (Astigmatism) does not make you -5.25!
If anything it would make your Spherical Equivalent -5.12 which is such a small number would not change your correction in your glasses.

Sphere is the Near/Far correction and Cylinder is the astigmatism or angle of the refraction / shape of the surface of the cornea....

A -0.25 astigmatism is NOTHING to worry about and the limits are -6.00 as far as i know with regards to correction. Astigmatism measurement limits on class 1 is 2.00 and you are well within this limit. Meaning you could be up to -6.00 AND have an astigmatism of up to -2.00 as well and possibly STILL get through.

Obviously there are factors other than JUST the prescription that they test for but im almost certain you could get through on this prescription as long as with correction you can achieve 6/6 (20/20) on the vision chart.

Hope this helps

JONATHAN

[katsogr]

Personally I find that re-testing thing very intimidating. We have heard stories in this forum from people that had been re-tested.
In my opinion, if you simply want to renew your medical ( let's say your an instructor for example) and the AME asks you to do the test again ,simply leave the room and try going to another AME.

BUT, let's say that you wan't to fly for a major airline, like Lufthansa( just an example). They have their own medical facilities and their own doctors and it's almost certain that they'll ask you to take the test again...

I certainly wouldn't wan to go through the same stress again and probably fail. I think it's to much.

[DB777]

Thanks Jon

I would like to get a second opinion and learn more before I commit to anything.

I know there are alot of cowboys that do Laser Surgery and don't want to end up going down the wrong path.

I need to do it and would rather do it right initially so if I can/do decide to follow my license then my eyesight won't become an obstacle.

Can you recommend a company/optician that would give a more accurate service, or even confirmation right now that this is an option for me?

Knowledge is power and at the moment my knowledge on the subject is limited.

This is my current prescription

Right:
Sph +0.75
Cyl - 6.75
Axis 25

Left:
Sph 0.50
Cyl -4.50
Axis 152.5

I have no idea what each value means relative to the JAA/CAA standards. I would be grateful for any guidance.

The truth is even though i'm not solely considering LASIK so I can pursue my license, it is a large factor. If through some weird unconsidered twist that my current prescription is within the parameters and I would pass the Class 1 then I would probably not have it. Even then though I suspect as my eyes deteriorate further it would then become a problem once I had a license!

Any guidance/resources/recommendations greatly received by people in the know.

DB

[NurseToPilot]

DB...

I would never recommend going for the FIRST company to offer you the treatment without having second opinion.

I had 3 consultations in all before deciding on which one to go with - dont forget just because one is cheaper it does not make the more expensive one BETTER at what they do - I use ULTRALASE here as an example of a company who has millions of pounds to spend on marketing and good marketing does not always mean good service - for example you don't meet the person doing the laser treatment until the day of the treatment. NOW if you were having elective surgery at hospital you would most certainly be seeing the consultant before your operation therefore why shouldn't you meet him/her before your eye surgery?

The company i chose (and i will tell you if private message me... had the consultant himself doing most of the testing and advice before the surgery took place - this filled me with confidence from day one!

By looking at your prescription i can see that you have an astigmatism that the CAA would never allowed through a medical as their initial limit is ±2.00 and renewal is ±3.00.

Google "What is Astigmatism" and you will get some decent information that explains what it is and what you have!

You say in your post that you feel your eyes might deteriorate further? There are two ways that this can happen and you're probably confusing the two.... 2/3 of your refraction comes from the cornea (clear bit at front of eye) and the other 1/3 comes from the lens inside. Your ability to focus distance vs far comes solely from the lens and its ability to accomodate by stretching and contracting... as we get older this flexibility diminishes, hence why people over 40 need glasses for reading (called presbyobia)

If you have lasik done - the laser re shapes the cornea surface by sort of chiseling away the surface tissue to shape it correctly to focus light to where it should be (basically taking the prescription from your glasses and eliminating that much tissue from the eye surface) - you will still need reading glasses in future!

There are certain considerations here - the more of a prescription you have (ie the higher the number) the more laser that will need to be applied and thus more tissue that will have to be ablated..... your corneal thickness will be measured to see that it is thick enough to allow for lasik, and if it is then you can go ahead.... There may not be enough tissue there to take your prescription down to 0 however you may be able to reduce it and bring it within limits.......

So many considerations but i recommend you see consultants at these companies and find out as much as you can for yourself.

Sorry for the long winded answer but as i mentioned at the beginning I have researched it for 13 months before going ahead!!

TA - good luck

JONATHAN

[kewin444]

I would like to say you thank you very much for your reply....it was very complete!!!
I hope only onething...........the limit for UK are really the same in Switzerland.........
Thank you again..............!!!!

[pplstudent12345]

I'm a ppl considering doing my cpl - i wear fairly strong glasses - does anyone know if this will prevent me from gaining a class 1 medical?

[RMarvin86]

I see it's your first post here so welcome on this forum.
Not to be rude, but there are plenty of post in this section dealing with class 1 vision requirements that you will have difficult in reading them all. There are many restriction applying on vision, so the best for you is to take a look at the CAA medical dept. website where you will easily find all the info you need.
Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49)
But of course, if you have some specific question, then this is the best place to ask ;)

[Le Bigleux]

Hello,

I have written a post in the "Liberalizing medical requirements" thread and I just discovered the existence of this one which would have been more appropriate. I recently got in France the class 1 medical certificate with a -7 dioptres myopia. You can check the said post for the details.
Just to say shortsighted people can let their hope grew :)

[lhoggett]

hello,
i am at college studying for A-levels. my dream is (and has been for a long time) to become a plot although due to my eyesight i remain unsure whether this is a worthwhile career in pursuing.

having looked alot into vision requirements i have deduced that my eyesight is within the limits set out by the CAA and that visually i would pass the JAR class 1 medical.

although this is the case i havent heard of anyone being accepted onto programmes such as ctc, cabair, oaa etc. with any kind of visual impairment.
i would basically like to know if wearing glasses/contacts would put me at a disadvantage amongst other candidates at obtaining a place or if it would put me at a disadvantage in getting future employment.

if this was to be the case, would laser surgery solve any problems if i were to have my eyes corrected before applying

thanks

p.s. sorry if this has posted somewhere rediculous as i am new to pprune :bored:

[Sagey]

lhoggett,

The criteria for training to be a commercial pilot is a valid class one medical. Wearing glasses, contacts will put you at no disadvantage whatsoever.

S

[NurseToPilot]

AS LONG AS YOU FALL WITHIN THE LIMITS STATED

Go to Civil Aviation Authority Home Page (http://www.caa.co.uk) and click medical and then visual standards

Have a good read of all the stuff then come back with questions on here

I FAILED my Class 1 Last year and passed it this year after having LASER CORRECTION - though complicated and not for everybody it worked for me...

thanks hope this helps

JON

[ACIDO]

How did you pass class 1 if you were outside the limits for laser surgery that are -5,00?

[NurseToPilot]

CAA dont actively encourage LASER SURGERY therefore there is no "limit for laser surgery"

I think what you mean is that the prescription cannot be more than -5.00 right?

Well my prescription was OK but i Had an astigmatism of -3.75 of which the CAA allow you only to be -2.00 for Initial and -3.00 for renewal....

I had my lasik done in march... and came to 0.00 prescription/astigmatism in LEFT eye and -0.50 astigmatism in Right eye which is 1.5 within limits

hope this clears it up

JON

[ACIDO]

From CAA website:
"The CAA does not recommend refractive surgery to gain a medical certificate to fly. The decision to have this type of treatment must be between you and your eye specialist. In fact the certification limits of eye correction with glasses and the limits of refraction before surgery are the same, so it is not possible to gain a medical certificate by having refractive surgery, that you would not have obtained by wearing glasses.
...
the pre-operative refraction should not have been more than + 5.00 to -6 dioptres"
So, before having surgery, you were outside the limits for your astighmatism (-3,75 instead of -2,00 max).
Did you get a special authorization from CAA or what else?

Thanx

Bye

ACIDO;)

[NurseToPilot]

As I said before I had already FAILED my class 1 therefore the decision to have lasik was one that was made as an I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO LOSE situations.

I did NOT get special authorisation from the CAA as they say in their own documentation....

"The decision to have this type of treatment must be between you and your eye specialist."

They also cite somewhere else in their documentation that people who've already had laser surgery (for example people who had not considered becoming pilots when they had the procedure done) would be considered for medical class 1 as long as their post operative results fall within limits and that they have NO PROBLEMS with GLARE/HALOS and have no pathalogical problems following on from it....

WOULD IT REALLY BE FAIR TO STOP PEOPLE AT THE DOOR AND SAY SORRY NO MEDICAL BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD LASIK - WITHOUT FIRST ASSESSING THEM?

THE CAA IS FAIR AND ASSESSES ALL CANDIDATES INDIVIDUALLY THIS IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO GET ALL THE ADVICE YOU CAN FROM CAA AND OTHERS WHO HAVE MADE DECISIONS LIKE MYSELF AND MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE.


What I did was have the lasik and then ask the CAA please would they just review me again which they did - and because the results of MY LASIK were really good and had NO effect in relation to my ability to perform required functions to become a pilot - they had no reason NOT to grant me class 1....

I had the Visual acuity standard required (6/6) in fact I am 6/5.

I had NO GLARE or HALOS around lights (due to careful consideration when having the 'flap' cut (It was made bigger than my pupil could ever become in darkness) so that I would not see the scar at night and have light bounce on it/ refract on it.

As with ALL medical interventions the CAA have rules about all procedures and ground ANYBODY having any form of medical intervention - ONLY when they have assessed that you can maintain their strict standards do they then issue the person with a medical "fit to resume flying duties"

I hope this clears up any questions - if not send me a private message and I will explain further

PLEASE NOTE - I HAVE NOT POSTED TO ADVOCATE LASIK IN ANY WAY I HAVE SIMPLY SHARED MY VIEWS / EXPERIENCE IN THE HOPE IT HELPS OTHERS WHO ARE IN THE POSITION TO GAIN CONFIDENCE THAT ALL IS NOT LOST AND THAT THERE OFTEN IS A LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL WHEN THINGS SEEM TO GO AGAINST THEM.


JJ

[Mohit_C]

Hi guys,

I have my Class 1 Medical renovation in less than two weeks and I'm getting really worried about my vision. I'm going to do the renovation at the Iberia Medical Centre in Barajas and I need some advice.

According to the website on Fomento, the limit is +3/-5 dioptres and/or 2 dioptres of astigmatism, however on my Class 1 Medical certificate is says "Refractive error +3 to +5 or -3 to -6". Recently, perhaps I have been studying too much, I felt the need to change my glasses and when I went to my optician in both eyes my vision had got worse exceeding slightly the limits.

Can someone please confirm me the limits on refractive and astigmatism errors for the Class 1 Medical renovation?

Are they really strict on these limits?

Right now I have the choice to either change my glasses to the stronger prescription (and hope for the best) or keep the older prescription (with which I did pass my Initial Class 1 Medical).

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

[rick0]

Mohit_C - if you've passed the initial already then i'm pretty sure (the CAA JAA C1) the minium becomes -8 dioptres for renewles etc.

[Mohit_C]

rick0 thanks for replying I just need someone out there who can confirm this so that I can relax a little before going for the medical test as the days keep on reducing...

[captainyonder]

What are the current regulations in the UK regarding Corrective Laser Eye Surgery? I currently hold a class 1 and have my renewal coming up in just over a month. I went to see my optician yesterday and I've had to increase my perscription, although it is still within limits I'm now considering LASIK to resolve the problem. Do the CAA still require a year off in between having the treatment done and regaining your class 1? This seems somewhat restrictive, I have several friends who have had it done and they've been back at work with perfect vision the next day, albeit in ground based jobs!

[AMEandPPL]

This is directly from the CAA Medical Department's web site :


Refractive Surgery
The CAA does not recommend refractive surgery to gain a medical certificate to fly. The decision to have this type of treatment must be between you and your eye specialist. In fact the certification limits of eye correction with glasses and the limits of refraction before surgery are the same, so it is not possible to gain a medical certificate by having refractive surgery, that you would not have obtained by wearing glasses. However, if you have had refractive surgery, Class 1 certification will be considered three months after a LASIK procedure, (provided an assessment including refraction has been carried out at two months post-operatively). Certification can be considered six months after LASEK/PRK for myopia (provided an assessment is carried out at three months post-operatively at Gatwick). is usually possible one year after other types of operation.
Please note that:
• the pre-operative refraction should not have been more than + 5.00 to -6 dioptres (applicants just outside this range should contact the CAA Medical Department for advice.)
• an assessment by an eye specialist at Gatwick will be required

This mentions the time-scales you wondered about. There is never any harm in contacting the CAA to ask about individual cases.

[Flag Track]

Apologies if this has been mentioned earlier, believing my vision to be too poor for a class 2 med pass I thought NPPL standards would be less exacting, asking the optician if I would pass the minimum uncorrected DVLA professional driver requirements It was proved NO, Yet checking the CAA website you can fly with a prescription of up to -8 dioptres of correction with no uncorrected limit. Have I read this right? Thanks in advance for replies!

[AMEandPPL]

More directly from the CAA's own web site :


Distance Vision
Your visual acuity (your ability to see, tested by reading lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/12 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error must not exceed +5 to -8 dioptres. This is in the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 3.00 dioptres. The difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 3.00 dioptres. Your AME or optometrist will be able to explain these terms.

Just ask your optician if you meet these criteria ! Good luck !

[Mohit_C]

I have a little doubt regarding Class 1 Medical renovations. Suppose if, in the future when you fly for an airline and when you have to do your Class 1 Medical renovation something on the other turns wrong, let's say your vision gets worse and goes off the limits; i.e. according to JAR FCL 3 it must be between +5 / -8 with 3.0 dioptres of astigmatism.

My question is what exactly would happen? Would they make an allowance as you're already performing activities related to your licence, would they confiscate the medical certificate and you lose your licence or what would happen?

Thanks.

P.S. Vision deterioration is only an example; perhaps someone would, let's say, have a BP above the limit.

[Bealzebub]

There is no simple answer to this as it involves a human dynamic. As we all get older the acuity of our senses becomes less and less sharp. Eyesight and hearing ability naturally reduce. Weight gain may become more of a problem. Blood pressure may rise. Memory becomes less sharp. Susceptibility to age related illnesses and diseases increases. All of this is part of the natural ageing process.

There are certain conditions that can not be safely tolerated in aircrew and they would certainly result in the withdrawal of a medical certificate. On the other hand many conditions can be treated and tolerated, sometimes with the application of additional safeguards such as "multi-crew only" etc.

Many conditions result in slow deterioration and they can be treated in conjunction with the persons own G.P's. Hypertension is a common example. A condition that be seen to be controlled to the reasonable satisfaction of the authority wouldn't usually result in the permanent withdrawal of a medical certificate.

Sometimes on this forum people with conditions beyond the initial issue limits laid down, fail to appreciate that those limits are not simply random pass or fail obstacles, but are limits that may reflect the fact that further natural age related deterioration may result in the early termination of their certification. Clearly this is unfair on the candidate and unfair on any prospective employer, both of whom might expect a fair period of medical certification if they are to have any confidence in the system.

Once issued, the authorities (certainly in the UK) go to great lengths to try and ensure that an individual does keep their certification for as long a period as is reasonably possible. This is often reflected in the fact that renewal limits are more relaxed than issue limits, and the discretion that is often applied to individual cases for the purpose of maintaining medical validity.

At the end of the day the importance is attached to treating the individual, not the medical certificate.

[Mickey Kaye]

"I went to see my optician yesterday and I've had to increase my perscription, although it is still within limits I'm now considering LASIK to resolve the problem"

If your still within limits why have it done? You may have friends who have "perfect vision" but that is not always the case. I see loads of patients who have fair worse outcomes and in your case it could cost you your job.

[littlehobo75]

I have recently passed selection for a position as an ATCO with NATS. However I failed my medical as my eyesight was -6.5 in both eyes in 2006 before I had LASIK. I am now 6/6 in both eyes and have been since treatment.

I understand what the requirements are, but was told to go through selection anyway as it would be treated on a case by case basis. It turns out this was not the case and NATS actually have a more stringent requirement than the CAA and pre-LASIK vision must be greater than -3.5

Does anyone know why, clinically, pre-LASIK prescription is even a requirement where current treated vision is stable. I cannot see any medical justification for this. It is interesting that the FAA and Australia's CASA feel the same way. I appreciate that they may want to discourage people from having the procedure purely to pass the medical, although this is a matter of choice. Luckily my local MP and cabinet minister agrees and is taking my case to the CAA for an answer, but I would be interested to know others opinions.

Also, if there is anyone in the same positon, contact me, I think the more people that question this, the better!

[AMEandPPL]

I cannot see any medical justification for this

Let's be clear at the outset, I'm NOT defending any form of officialdom . . . . . and it's true, most people would think that if you can read the 6/6 or the 6/5 line on a standard Snellen chart, then that should be that !

BUT . . . . . . . scientifically and medically there is absolutely no doubt that anyone with a HIGH degree of myopia ( say -5.00 or -6.00 or even worse) has a very significantly increased risk of retinal detachment in later life. I know this, it has happened to my own daughter. A detached retina, if deemed predictable, MIGHT be thought of as too much of a risk in someone on whom thousands of pounds of training is about to be lavished ( eg - as an ATCO or as an ATPL ).

The question I am not expert enough to answer ( there may be someone on here who is ) is : "If the VA is improved from 6/60 to 6/6 by Lasik surgery, is the risk of later retinal detachment decreased correspondingly ? "

Anyone know enough to enlighten us on that ?

[littlehobo75]

Severe myopia can be a risk for retinal detachment, in younger people, i.e. early 20's and under. Even if this was a consideration I can't see why it would be relevant, detachment does not always lead to blindness, if caught in time it can be treated. Also, you would need to make playing contact sports a precluding factor!

Also, if conditions that could lead to costly absences were a deciding factor and not just safety, the medicals would need to take into account risk factors like race, gender and lifestyle, which rightly they don't!

[AMEandPPL]

The question I am not expert enough to answer

. . . . . . . . . . still hasn't been answered.


Agree that if caught in time can be treated. But timescale is often pretty quick, not days or weeks. Might be in minutes or hours - retinal detachment is an emergency when it happens.
What if it occurs in a pilot ? In mid-flight ?
We are back to the calculation of probabilities. The probability of retinal detachment is MUCH greater in one who starts out as a high myope.

[Mohit_C]

Regarding my previous question of, in case of passing over the vision limits (+5 / -8 dioptres) once you're established in an airline, what could be the possible limitation that you have on your medical / licence?

For instance, as was quoted a OML if the person has a high BP.

[Ollie247]

Good evening one and all!

Just wanted to pose a quick question.

If you have had Laser surgery (within limits) and go and apply for a CAA class 1 I believe you have to supply a report after the surgery.

I was just wondering if anyone has gone through this process and still has a copy of one of these reports that I may take a little look at??

Just wanting to see what information the CAA needs to see etc.

I can promise extreem confidentiality with regards to this, it would just be from a purely personal point of view.

Please feel free to PM me if this would be better.

Thanks in advance,

Ollie:ok:

[NurseToPilot]

why dont you just ask the CAA what they want to know.

Basically with mine all they needed was for my surgeon to confirm that I had "un complicated laser refractive surgery" and what procedure was used and what my post op prescription was.

JON

[Ollie247]

Thank you fpr the reply Jon,

Just wondering how long ago did you have your op?

Ollie :ok:

[NurseToPilot]

March 14th 2008! And wrote to CAA 2 months afterwards - to which they replied they won't see me until 3 months had passed and that they would like me to arrange a visit around 3 months post operatively asking for EYES first as well as ensuring my visit was on the same day as the Consultant Visiting Ophthalmologist was on site in case i needed an extra examination (at £100 more!!)

Luckily for me my operation was so successful that my vision is now as near to perfect as it can get therefore I passed all tests and did not need to see the ophthalmologist consultant

Hope this helps

JON

[Ollie247]

Thanks very much indeed for you time JON.

Every little bit of info I get is really useful to me.

Ollie :ok:

[tigermagicjohn]

Having had a Lasik 3 years ago, pre op was +5.75 and +4, I now have perfect vision.

I was aware 0,75 outside the limit on my left eye would be a problem. And today told me that I was classified unfit for class 1 medical because of my pre op condition.

These was the JAR rules, and now exceptions possible! Accept one option.
Gain a commerical license in another country who is not member of JAR, Australia or USA, and they will 99% issue a class 1 medical.

I do qualify for FAA class 1 medical, so would mean first doing FAA IR and Commerical license, then return UK and get a class 1 medical.

However I it is amazing to see the logic of this, unfit - but also fit! I have to say this is very disapointing and makes you wonder, what is the risk of going me or others in my situation a class 1 medical, so I could do the training here in the UK in my own pace.:*

[eject]

JAR preop limit is -6.

[Ollie247]

I believe that the Initial Limits are +5 and -6!

Sorry to hear that you cant pass the medical think I might be in the same boat too.

Good Luck for the future,

Ollie :ok:

[tigermagicjohn]

Well as the CAA told me today, if you get FAA class 1 medical, and FAA commerical license, then there might be a way.

I will anyway make a formal letter to them to get this information in writing.

For me the requirement of pre op conditions seems to completly nonsense, specially when they will possibly give a class 1 license after flying commerical in other countries.

I dont know your details oll, but I would say dont give up, where there is a will there is a way. Also going to US might end up cheaper in the end even after converting licenses, simply because the hour building is much cheaper there.

[Ollie247]

As you quite rightly say, dont stop the dream!

Keep you chin up, I'm sure by hook or by crook we'll get there.

Ollie :ok:

[AMEandPPL]

We AME's in the UK have just been sent this latest update today. There are no concrete changes just yet, but it gives a hint of how the way forward is being projected . . . . . . See last paragraph in this :

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_Med_ColourVision.pdf

[Neo_RS14]

Thanks for posting that up AMEandPPL;)

I can only echo what Shunter has said. Demonstration of abillity is the way we need to go, not into yet more academics! :ugh:...Especially seeing as the practical approach has been succesful in other parts of the globe.

It really is harsh, because the scientifically constructed tests, manipulating the wavelengths of light etc etc...different hues etc etc....probably nail 75% of us to the wall....however in reality, with a practical test, I am certain that we'd be looking at 75-85% of CVD's passing, not walking out the door with their hopes and dreams destroyed.

[Bips]

I am 39 and pretty new to flying. I absolutely love it and am looking for a PPL but fear my time in sky is numbered, as I have read the CAA vision requirements and my vision is -7.8 and -1 cycl in each eye, which is outside the class 2 as described in their literature.
From reading the extensive vision thread, I understand there is an appeal process for people who are outside the inital requirements but inside the renewal requirements. However, I am outside both requirements and as it stands even if I undergo corrective surgery I will still be outside the requirements.

Are there any other routes to getting a PPL or is this curtains on my dream?

To my understanding, the US based FAA does not have these restrictions.
What if I pass my PPL in the states, how would that then work in the UK?

Or is there a better way of moving forward.

[tigermagicjohn]

The truth is that I would not be to worried about the PPL, as long as your eyesight is corrected within limits they probably will give you PPL, but you might as well call the medical service and ask them.

But believe renewal limit was -8 ?? Or am i wrong here!

[belowradar]

Shunter - just to state my position I am now a member of the group challenging the CAA via their internal appeal process. As a group we are well aware of this recent legal precedent and have factored it into our legal planning and strategy.

We are still hoping that CAA / EASA will see that urgent change to regulations is required and take the initiative themselves but if not we have a very solid legal basis to force change via the courts if necessary.

Once again I urge all affected pilots to lodge an appeal via the internal CAA appeals process as a first action. :ok:

[Bips]

The limit is (+5 to) -8 but that includes my -1 cycl so I am actually over by less than a dioptre at -8.8. Thanks for the reply John, however I am not sure while you say I shouldn't worry. Are the rules somewhat relaxed as long as you are close?

I am going to call the Medical Services to see if these limits are soft or if they would make an exception for me. Is there anyone on here that is outside the specified ranges but has a PPL?

[tigermagicjohn]

I know they are much more relaxed on PPL class 2, but you might as well just give them a call, they should tell you straight out. I believe as long as corrected vision is within limits you should be ok.

You could also got 1 month in USA and get a PPL there, and convert upon return.

[shgsaint]

Thanks for the replies guys,

It's nice to know that the CAA make it as thorough as possible!!! :E

I'm pretty confident that I will by-pass the Ishiara tests quickly!!! I've done them enough times and I never get any better at them, and know I never will.

Bring on the lanterns!!

Thanks chaps.

[AMEandPPL]

Anyone seen this from Aviation House

Yes, I posted it, way, way, back on the . . . . . . . . . 27 August !

I must take issue with
As . . . . . said, it is designed to try and catch you out

Just ask yourself "why ?" Who could possibly gain anything by just catching people out ? The overall system is in place to try to ensure adequate visual standards in aviators in the UK (and elsewhere !).

OK, I know it's not absolutely perfect, but very few things in life are. It is recognised that the present system has failings. Together the JAA and CAA are trying to come up with a better system for the future.

[AMEandPPL]

the CAD test coming in soon, a fair, practical, aviation environment based test

Just what we have all been waiting for . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . but hey, might mean the demise of this thread ! !

[AMEandPPL]

I cannot agree that the CAD Test is a fair and practical aviation based test

In fairness and honesty I have to agree that I did actually say that. However, perhaps what I actually meant was that it was just an improvement on the various unsatisfactory methods used hitherto - still, of course, very far from ideal.

My second chastisement in less than 24 hours - I think I'll give this a break for a while. Happy Landings to all !

[NurseToPilot]

Refractive correction is never measured in anything except 0.25 increments... therefore your -7.8 would unfortunately be rounded to -8.0 which puts you on the very edge of the limit.

No two refractive exams are ever the same therefore there is a chance that if two people did your eye test on same day they would have an error factor of 0.25 to 0.50 diopters so you could either be measured as having -7.75 or -8.25 depending on who did it, your tiredness, eye strain, lighting etc etc.. number of factors.

[Neo_RS14]

Originally posted by me further up page
Thank God for the CAD test coming in soon, a fair, practical, aviation environment based test, things are looking up, money well spent! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif


I was actually being sarcastic when I wrote the comment above. I believe I've made my take on the CAD test more than clear in previous posts. I'm of the same opinion as 2close, in that the CAD test is about as relevant to aviation as cabbages are to computing. As previously stated herein, it may be a tool to assess someone for a CVD, but it certainly cannot assess whether they are safe to fly or not, and since there are practical systems around the world that DO assess this (without flight safety being jeopardised due to someone thinking a green light was actually red) going into such investment to devise another test along purely academic lines was a really poor (and excruciatingly unfair) decision.


Originally posted by 2close
Sorry to pull the soap-box back out but this issue really annoys me


No need to apologise, pull the soap box out anytime you like.

[Bips]

You're absolutely right, I took an eye test and my prescription was actually -9 and -9.25. I have been recommended to go for the NPPL or do a retest against 6/12 on each eye separately and 6/6 together. Unless you tell the optician they will correct you to 6/6 in each eye which would probably be 6/4 together. Apparently 6/12 is a couple of lines higher up the lettered chart and hence the letters are significantly bigger. On that basis I am trying a retest and I hope I can read them with less correction hence fall within the limits for a JAR PPL. I'll get a good night's sleep first too! :8

[NurseToPilot]

I was an ophthalmic nurse before I had my Lasik done.... therefore I had a slight advantage when it came to my research and reading the CAA documentation on requirements as I have a little more understanding of what all the requirements mean.

I'm happy to help anybody who wants more information on the procedure I had done etc.... either reply here so others can see or you can PM me...

JON

[DB777]

I wrote a letter to the CAA yesterday outlining the issues with my prescription and hope to book a meeting to discuss. I am still in the dark, however, if my prescription is even close to the parameters - can anyone confirm;

Right:
Sph +0.75
Cyl - 6.75
Axis 25

Left:
Sph 0.50
Cyl -4.50
Axis 152.5

?

Thanks in advance.

[Tamesy1]

DB, I'm afraid that the astigmatic component of your prescription (the CYL part) is probably too large for a class 1. The initial limits are 2 dioptres.
Good job on writing to the CAA, thats definitely the best way. If you want a quicker response, (the CAA may take a few weeks to respond), you can take the following document to an optician to get their opinion.
Cheers

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED-JARClass1InitialVisStds%5B2189%5D.pdf

[DB777]

I should have said, I meant my pre-operative refraction is this current prescription. The CAA have a limit for what it should be prior to surgery. Hopefully, once i've had the surgery it'll be 20/20 - then it's just case of stabilising it!

[Tamesy1]

Ahh, well you should probably refer to the 'Refractive Surgery' section of the first page of that document. Has all the info you need.

[DB777]

Thanks Tamesy1

They don't make it easy to find out.
I'm really at a cross roads at the moment (all dependent on my prescription).
My future plans are in the ands of the CAA!!!!

Guess i'm not the only one though...

[NurseToPilot]

the PRE OP refraction they refer to is only the SPHERE AND CYLINDER they dont mention that you can't have lasik for ASTIGMATISM

I Only just realised the above NOW...

The reason for setting a limit for refraction for SPHERE is due to MYOPIA (short sightedness) meaning that lasik doesnt take the risk of RETNAL DETACHMENT away!

Retinal detachment risk occurs in everybody with myopia as they have a longer shape eye which increases risk of the retina peeling away - this is a major ophthalmic emergency.

Obviously you can go blind in minutes not hours if this happens and what if you were on a transatlantic flight ?? i think this is why the limits are imposed!

JONATHAN

[belowradar]

But without opposing viewpoints, we would really be going nowhere fast.

Agree with the sentiment but the debate has rolled on for far too long
I don't have a problem with different views but I do have a problem with a restriction that is not based on proven safety factors. I appreciate that non CVD pilots are entitled to a viewpoint but would prefer to see viewpoints that are based on fact not simply conjecture.

[Neo_RS14]

No worries shgsaint, that's a great result, you must be chuffed:cool:

[AMEandPPL]

chances are they are frustrated pilots that didn't have the nuts to make it in this industry and want to get at those who do

A ridiculous and absolutely unforgiveable statement. Most of the medical officers in the (BRITISH) CAA Medical Department have ATPL's, IR's, and keep current by flying large jets periodically with well-known airlines.

[shgsaint]

Cheers for the feedback.

I'm chuffed but then the test wasn't really testing me on Aviation colours. :hmm:
So i'm taking the result with a pinch of salt. I do admit from what I have read about the tests, they do seem a bit dated and a little impractical. But I guess as with everything the CAA have their reasons and as it's a safty thing I don't think they can afford to be anything else but air-tight.

It does make me wonder how some of us would perform if they did test us using different means. For example showing us a picture of Wx radar or EFIS and electronic ADI instrument.

As you say Soup Nazi everything else is backed up by raw data. If the big handle above you starts flashing and screaming and it says: ENG FIRE on it, you cut of the fuel, extinghuish the fire and the rest of it before you even notice the thing was red!

That might be a rather simplistic view on the whole CVD in the cockpit issue but untill I sit down in a cockpit with all these pretty coloured lights and gadgets i'll probably never know if I can / could safely operate it.

[shgsaint]

Yes sorry Neo they were rather naive comments from myself. To be fair I was just playing devils advocate. I've dipped my toes into this thread every now and again and try to keep up with it's momentum. Not being a commercial airline pilot (Catch 22 coming up)... I can't suggest what tests would be practical and can't genuinely say current CVD tests are inpractical. But then that's becuase of I have no comparison to the real world operation of commercial aircraft. I'm taking a stab in the dark effectively but i'm probably right as you say. ;)

I don't have any examples of saftey violations by pilots with CVD so this backs up our arguement that the filtering in the medicals are probably a bit antiquated. I seem to have the same deficiency as yourself and never seem to have any problems when looking at photos of Papis etc.

Don't worry you didn't offend me. My comments weren't meant to stir the hornets nest in any way. As mentioned they were rather simplistic views on the CVD issue. As we all know it's a lot more compicated than my inexperienced views.

At the end of day i'll always stand up for CVD population and fight our case. :ok:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Ame
So correct old chap, full marks! Really though if these guys are in fact current jet captains thats even worse. It reeks of old school and the fact that these people can't bring themselves to make change a regulation that cannot be justified makes me think that they are just bureaucrats.

The various regulators world wide make regulations that stipulate the medical standards a candidate must meet to pilot an aircraft generally. These standards cannot possibly be guided by cockpit displays because the regulators have only very broard control over how those displays are presented. I would think that if Collins, Honeywell or garmin decided that one of their EFIS displays required X level of color perception to fly that system then they would insert words to that effect in the manual.

[Bealzebub]

They are green. There are also very obvious and fundamental differences between the two items as well. However as you say "in the heat of the moment" it simply becomes another piece in the error chain.

[RMarvin86]

Hello,

I've a JAA class 1 medical but I'm a little bit worried about my eye sight as I have problems of astigmatism and hypermetropia. With my left eye (the bad one) I've 2.50 dioptres of astigmatism and with correction I can see 8/10 which is above JAA minima of 6/9. What is worring me is that astigmatism (maybe) get worse and therefor visus may reduce below minima. I've talked to opticians and I understood that astigmatism+hypermetropia is a stable condition and vision should remain stable. I've also understood that this refractive error can reduce with ageing (improve?) but I don't understand if this means that visus with spectacles is going to improve?
About the 6/9 vision requirement are they really strict to it for medical renewals? What happens if a pilot along his career drops down to 5/9 in 1 eye?
It may sound like an odd question but I really appreciate to know if there're other pilots out there with the same vision problem and maybe who can tell me something more about this condition or any other kind of information is of course really really appreciated.

[Sagey]

From the UK CAA website.

JAR Class 1 (Professional Pilot) Initial Examination Visual Standards
These are the JAR Class 1 visual standards as applied by the UK CAA.

Distance Vision

Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight. This is in the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres. Your optometrist will be able to explain these terms.

However, the renewal limits are significantly higher and with astigmatism and anisometropia above 3 dioptres class one holders require a comprehensive eye examination every 2 years.

You got through the intial which with eye sight is a lot stricter. By the sound of it your optician is confident that your astigmatism will not get worse. Actually your astigmatism is below the level that requires a comprehensive eye examination so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Talk to an AME or an optician but I would suspect that with regular eye check ups etc that you will be fine.

Visual - JAR Class 1 Comprehensive Eye Examinations | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=534) contains all the renewal info


S

[Barut]

Hello everyone,

I'm having my flight training(CPL) in Australia and I hold a class 1 medical issued by CASA.

My right eye is 6.50 and my left eye is 6.00.

my visual acuity is 6/5 using both eyes, and 6/6 when I'm using only one eye.

My plan is to go back to Turkey(as I'm Turkish) and convert my licence to JAR.

You think my current prescription could cause me a problem there?

btw I've got a class 1 in Turkey 4 years ago before deciding to become a pilot. My prescription was 5.25 for the right eye and 5.00 for the left at the time when I've got through class 1 medical check up in Turkey.

Any opinion is appreciated.

Kerem

[Neo_RS14]

Originally posted by 2close
The chances are that if you do use a BCF extinguisher on board an aircraft with a fire you are going to have some very ill people on board, if not dead...

xxxx

...So I raised the question with said regulator - why are BCF extinguishers still used on aircraft? The answer - (paraphrasing) 'They're lighter and cheaper in terms of weight versus effectiveness.'


Well this is absolutely disgusting. ...Human life vs Cost effectiveness...Its all well and good until one of the bean-counters' relatives are involved in a related incident, God forbid. Surely there must already have been some aviation incidents with this extinguisher if this is still currently used?

------------

Prince William is to become a full time pilot for the RAF SAR...Yes I saw this "Breaking News Flash" on the News earlier.

...Prince William has CVD yes, it's a terrible shame.

...Prince William (and others) apply pressure for him to get into flying.

...Prince William no longer has CVD

Wow, I'll have a glass of whatever that guy was drinking!:}

As said, fair play to him, I know he'll absolutely love his role(s) and will make a great pilot I bet, and do some fantastic flying. But for the rest of our little Motley crew, it really is rather a lot like having our noses rubbed in it. :sad:

LOL To be fair, it's not like we were ever gonna be sat in the waiting room down Dubendorf AMC shooting the **** with him really was it.

[Neo_RS14]

Thanks for posting that "Royalist" link 2close!:ok:

Definitley one for the favourites.

[Shunter]

As you'll see from this page (http://myflightsurgeon.com/Farnsworth.html) yes, the hue does change. If you know this, you're half way to passing.

You could always buy yourself a "revision aid" (http://www.guldenophthalmics.com/ccp51/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F532085&rnd=8401556&rrc=N&affl=&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=Farnsworth_Lantern_Flashlight+&cat=&catstr=).

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Shunter
Seems to me that the portable Farnworth kit would be a good investment for the budding CVD candidate. If I were starting out again I would start with that.

[Flag Track]

If I understand correctly, NPPL eyesight standards are higher than PPL, any reason why? ( I can't be a professional lorry driver, but I could pass PPL!)

[Hoverfrog]

:ugh:Can anyone please help? - I know the initial limit for astigmatism in a class 2 medical is 3.00. My question is two fold. 1. Is the renewal limit different? 2. Is there an eyesight test in a class 2 renewal. On the med cert it appears to say not. Sorry if this has been covered - I have looked through but could only find class 1 references.

[Neo_RS14]

I was under the impression that you are able to do a tower signal light gun test in Australia, as a last resort to remove any restrictions on your medical.

:confused:

Am I incorrect?

[brakpanner]

Does any one know if I can do an IMC if I am restricted to VFR only because of CVD?:confused:

[biggles7374]

Hi Brakpanner

The answer to your question is yes.

The endorsement on your licence used to be 'VFR flights by day only' and following a review by the CAA the endorsement is now 'flights by day only'

So IMC and IR is possible but only by day.

Hope this helps

[Shunter]

Yes, IFR no problem. I had an IMC rating whilst I still had a restricted Class 2 medical. Do your night qualification dual, get a restricted Class 1, then onwards and upwards to CPL/IR/FI, whatever you like. You can get the whole lot, but you still can't log P1 at night. Pathetic.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Sacky
Come on down old son, we might be at the ass end of the world but it appears we are leading from the rear on this one.

[Malta_Flyer]

Is it only me or is there anyone else who doesn't like the wording of the Medical renewal? They seem to be a bit vague and leave a lot to the doctor's discretion.

I'm bang on the -6 dioptre limit on my left eye (-5 on my right) and i've held a class one medical for 3 years. What concerns me is that if i exceed -6, (i'm not expecting anything too dramatic but might go up to something like -6.5) the doc might say i'm out of the game. I'm gonna start working as a flight instructor in a couple of months and therefore by the time i need to do my next renewal i'll have around 600 hours.. will this help?

[RMarvin86]

I think you should have no problems at the renewal as after the initial examination there is no dioptric limit anymore! Dioptric limit applyies only at the fist time examination.
In my case I was something like 1.50 dioptres o astigmatism when I did my first examination 5 years ago. I did not fly in the meantime and the past year I did my revalidatin with 2.50 dioptres (which exceeds the limit of 2.0 for astigmatism) and I did pass.

JAR Class 1 and 2 medicals | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=68&gid=211)

I hope it helps.

[RMarvin86]

Are you sure you're out of limits? Check the CAA link I posted in the previous post. If it is about your dioptric error then you should be in with +5.00 and +4.50. If you're able to pass a class 1 then i would recomend you to take the examination as early as possible as you may get worse and your actual vision condition which appears to me as borderline become out of limits.

[fireoff]

I checked those and you're right, i'm borderline although I was told my vision had improved. I still think it would be wise to take it now. Do the same standards apply when renewing?

Sean

[Neo_RS14]

Sacky,

Do your best to find out if there are any practical CV tests offered to remove restrictions from a medical, e.g the light signal test...

No-one answered my question about it so I'll assume the regulars to this thread (the ones that actually post) do not know if the test is offered...

I would investigate it as best you can mate, good luck.

[RMarvin86]

When renewing standards are much lower! And that's my fortune as now I would NOT pass an initial but I get through renewal (due to astigmatism). I took initial at the age of 16.

When renewing you do not have dioptric limits anymore. With ageing your miopia can get worse and you will be medical fit as long as your sight remains 6/9 each eye and 6/6 using both eyes with spectacles.

If you check on the CAA medical website you will be able to find all those parameters. Again, if you're borderline now and you want to start an aviation career I think it's wise to take your initial examination as soon as possible.

[Malta_Flyer]

thanks for your help rmarvin. i hope i never have problems cause at the moment i'm spending all i have on getting my licences done...i probably could have bought a benz!!

[Jet_A_Knight]

neo rs 14

I was under the impression that you are able to do a tower signal light gun test in Australia, as a last resort to remove any restrictions on your medical.

Yes they do.

[KandiFloss]

Im really worried about my left eye, when I look forward the vision out of the side of my left eye appears all foggy. It began on Thursday after drinking strong coffee. I got home and had a really spaced out feeling, just like if you spend too long in a room thats just been painted. I went to bed and thought that things would be ok when I woke up the next morning. When I woke up I thought that my vision was ok, but by the time I had gone downstairs the same thing had happened. I was gutted as I had to cancel my flying slot that day. I managed to get an appointment with my gp who checked my blood pressure (normal) and check for retinal damage etc, but said that she couldn't see anything and that she receommemded me to go for an eye exam that day. But appart from that she had no idea what was happening. She told me that if the condtion worsened then to go to casualty. I managed to get an eye exam done, but the optometrist said that she couldn't see anything wrong and that I had perhaps had a migraine. ( I do get them occasionally but they are never like that). When I left the opticians I felt really strange. I knew that there were people around me but it was as if they weren't really there. It seemed as though I was in a dream, really wierd. Luckily my husband was with me at the time.

I went home and had a sleep on the sofa and woke up with a migraine. I went to bed a couple of hours later. I woke up this morning initially feeling fine, but as soon as I had walked round the same symtpoms started happening ... foggy pheripheral vision in my left eye, difficulty in reading and feeling sick.

Please forgive my spelling, which is normally spot on , but im finding it hard to see.

It's really worrying because I normallly have perfect vision, and have never worn glasses. Even looking down to type is making me feel nauseus.

Has anyone ever had anything like this? Im really upset with this, not just for my current situation, but it's my dream to be able to fly professionally one day (I currently hold a Class1 medical).

[Pilot DAR]

Pilot Chick,

It sounds like whatever it is, has not "just gone away on it's own". I am not a doctor, though I do have some very limited medical training. Were I to be in your situation, I would be going back to the hosipal without too much delay. Perhaps the difficuly with your sight is only a symptom of something else. I hope that the doctors you have seen also have suggested this.

I hope it's nothing more than a bad migraine, and leaves you shortly, but go and be sure...

Pilot DAR

[KandiFloss]

Thanks for your reply PilotDar,

Im waiting for my husband to get home and i'll ask him to take me to hospital.

[KandiFloss]

Just got back from casualty. Saw a doctor who examined me and thinks that it is just a migraine? Maybe it is, but i've never had a migraine like this one ever. I'm going to keep monitoring it and i'll be back to the hospital if it hasn't improved.

[Loose rivets]

I'm a pilot, not a doctor, but I've written pages of stuff about classical migraine over the years. Search -- Loose rivets -- migraine -- Anytime (top of timescale list) -- and pick this forum at the bottom right.

First and foremost, is the visual disturbance definitely one eye or in both eyes? ( Edited.)

I ask you to be sure because sometimes, because of the way some information does not cross to the other hemisphere of your brain, it is surprisingly difficult to be tell if it is not some sort of overlap.

Don't panic, because so many people have an episode like this, but nevertheless, my feeling is that you should get an appointment to see an ophthalmic surgeon.

One told me that he sees many late onset migraine suffers, who have no idea what's going on. Often patients have never had anything like it in their lives before. Anyway, first things first: Is the disturbance in both eyes despite being in the left of your visual field? (Edited)

If it's still bad, monitor your temperature like a hawk. Report any significant rise quickly, and make sure they are informed or reminded of the entire problem to date. (Edited)

[Sacky]

So it does indeed appear that CASA offers a practical light signal test, has anyone ever done this before and what were your experiences?

[TelBoy]

I did the tower signal test in the US many years ago - and passed. Taken at two points on the airport 1000 yards and 1500 yards. Seemed easy enough, but I cannot pass any JAA test, so unrestricted FAA medical and restricted CAA medical.I think someone from Oz posted in this thread once about a tower signal test and said it was only taken at 200 metres. Take time to read the whole thread and see what he had to say.Good luck mate.

['India-Mike]

Get a cheap flight to Glasgow and have it done at Glasgow Caledonian University

Academic Staff: Vision Sciences: Life Sciences: Glasgow Caledonian University (http://www.gcal.ac.uk/sls/Vision/staff/index.html)

Ask for Prof. Heron. He saw my son within 24 hours of his class 2 initial and by the end of the week the results were with Gatwick and an unrestricted medical issued.

Good luck whatever you chose.

[TelBoy]

Are the CAA "delaying" due to the CAD test being almost here?

[FlyEJF]

Hmm interesting Telboy. I got the feeling that i was being fobbed off this morning, which is why I posted. The response I got this morning seemed different to those that I got before. What is this new test?

Ed

[KandiFloss]

Still having problems. Went to see my GP yesterday who thinks that it's a complex migraine. I've been refered to see a neurologist on friday.

I'll post what happens.

Im just stressing (i've been told not to do this) as I can't even drive let alone even think about flying (for fun), i'll be devasted if this stops me flying long term.

[Loose rivets]

Hello again, sorry to hear you're still having problems. A neurologist is good, but the only reason I mentioned an ophthalmic surgeon, is because they get so many people going to see them with their first episode of migraine. They get very good at knowing what's going on.

Although some senior doctors might order an MRI and look further themselves, others will often refer to a neurologist anyway.

Some people have visual disturbances lasting for weeks. They often become 'diluted' so that they are little more than a slight nuisance. An example might be that you have not been thinking about it while looking round at general scenery, but then you look at a face. The eyes seem normal but the mouth could be anything from vague to blotted out completely.

It has occurred to me that while the brain can often fill out missing areas, faces are a much more 'labor intensive' area for the brain. It is an image formed in circuits that cannot be fooled. The danger is, that the filled out areas may not contain vital information, like a car approaching from a certain point. Take care to be completely well again before driving.

Someone I know spent 18 months trailing from one specialist to another, checked for MS etc etc.. While out with them they would spend time covering one eye and or staring at my face...whatever, they were totally taken over by the symptoms. Despite this, they had the good fortune to get a good job and the change in lifestyle transformed them. A while later, they commented that their eyesight had never been better.

Good luck, and do keep us posted.

[Neo_RS14]

Does anyone know if they're any closer to getting this CAD in? Wonder how it's been received by the relevant parties.

[TelBoy]

I did the CAD at the CAA in May this year - oh yes! They told me they would keep my results on file until it was certified and then tell me if I passed or failed. At that time they were expecting it to be about 6 months, which would take us to Novemeber. That seems a real possibility considering what has happened. As for service on the lanterns, I did a freedom of information request on the CAA. The Beyne had a new bulb a few years back, but guess what - the Holmes Wright has had no maintanace for about 20 years. Why not do an FOI yourself, it's free and your right!!

[Neo_RS14]

Interesting. But if it's certified, it will be published on their website won't it? They can't just bring it in and not tell anyone surely?

Plus then there is the issue of whether it will be JAA-wide....Are all JAA states going to suddenly adopt the CAD in a months time?? It seems pretty unfair to just use the CAD for UK applicants, but our Continental brothers and sisters get to carry on with the former tests....hmm....it was never the fairest of games anyhow, so I wouldn't be surprised I suppose.

[flyboyweeksy]

I'll try not to rant on this one, but just curious to see whether anyone else has had the same problem and tosee your views...

I went for a Class 1 medical in January of this year. I did not gain my Class 1 for the reasons that when I was younger, I had astigmatism in my right eye and subsequently was corrected as much as possible without surgery. I have glasses and my left eye is 20/20. Now the dilemma is: if I had had my PPL, they would've issued my Class 1 there and then (with my eyes in the state they are). However, I don't have my PPL... yet. Does anyone else find this strange/stupid or is it me no understanding the logic?So they are willing to issue a Class 1 with my eyes as they are with a PPL but not willing to issue it at this time. Does it matter that you have a license but still have non-20/20 vision.... :ugh:

Forgot to mention, I don't need to wear my glasses day to day only when Im using the computer for long periods, otherwise I can see clearly. But obviously have glasses to help my stronger eye, so its not weakened.

[TelBoy]

The CAA will put details on their website as and when the CAD is accepted. I think they are holding out to get ICAO approval so that it is used in ALL ICAO states. In May they already had the equipment, and indeed their own pass criteria, but would not say what it was in case it had to be changed!! If indeed they wanted it as a UK only test it could have been done a long time ago. Good if you pass as any ICAO state should accept the test results. The CAA told me that it was planned for them to accept any other ICAO states results (of their CAD test!!). I still do not think the test is appropriate for pilot testing - let it be done in the real world and those that can will and those that can't won't - simple!!

[Neo_RS14]

I still do not think the test is appropriate for pilot testing - let it be done in the real world and those that can will and those that can't won't - simple!!

Amen to that!:D

[tigermagicjohn]

Why complain? Get you PPL and get class 1 - CAA say many things, not always logical, however what can we do about it?
Out of limits pre op, they say one day maybe with FAA Commerical we give class 1, next time somebody else call they say they don't give - so you never know the exact answer. Just wait, see and try!

But getting the PPL is easiest thing to do to qualify for class 1 medical, if they told you this 100%, then you should have nothing to worry about.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Sacky
Once you pass CV is not tested again. That, as has been stated previously in this thread, goes for QF as well. It is the CASA who make the pass criteria for the class 1 not QF. In Australia you do not need to worry about the CAD it has nothing to do with us unless advised otherwise.

We do however need to get behind our friends in the UK to have it stopped before it does threaten our shores.

[airmiles]

Can someone please explain Sphere Cylinder Axis Prism Base
I am long sighted and I have astigmatism in both eyes, but my left eye is the worst one. (Wish I could have an eye implant.. :()

In the Sph column this is either + for long sightedness or - for short sightedness
In the Cyl column I have - what does this column mean?
And the Axis what does this column mean?

It talks about diopters on the CAA website that it should not exceed +5 but that astigmatism must not exceed +2. How do I know from my results if I have passed or not?

I would like someone to pm if they can as I am very worried. I have passed a Gatwick CAA 1st Class Medical 4 years ago but my left eye only just passed.

Thanks

[Malta_Flyer]

i suggest you give us the exact prescription and we'd be able to help more..

[Mohit_C]

I have a question regarding all those of you out there that have finally reached the airline position. Right now, I'm reaching towards the end phase of the ATPLs after which I will start to do the hour building. Ever since I have started the ATPLs, my vision did get worse due to studying a lot but luckily the Class 1 Medical renovation limits have been stretched which basically means I'm on the limits on a certain requirement.

Now my question is, for all of you who have reached the airline RHS, how have you coped with taking care of your eyesight? I mean, there is a lot of studying involved which means a lot of eye-stress. Do most pilots/co-pilots out there wear glasses?

I'm starting to get worried because, not even being 20, if I start to experience these problems now, I don't want to imagine how I will end up in the future....with respect to meeting viision requirements.

ANY advice, suggestion or solution is appreciated.

Thank you.

[Arturo Lan]

Hi,

Eyesight can change with age regardless of the fact that you study a lot. At the age of 21-22 it becomes stable. It might change after that but it does not change that much.
I wouldn´t worry about it much.
I have myopia. I started wearing glasses at age 12 with about -0.25 as I grew it became worse until I reached -4.25. I´ve had the same glasses for about 10 years now and it has only changed a bit (maybe -0.25 in these 10 years).

When you study, just look at distant objects once in a while for a minute or so and then continue. Also you can take short breaks to go walk a little bit, that helps.

Best
Arturo

[planecrazy.eu]

Hey

Its an easy question, and i bet pretty obvious, but i cant find a link to the FAA for there C1 Medical and Vision Requirements? Any help?

I read here on one page that the FAA have lower vision requirements than the CAA, is this true?

If so, do any other states/countries have lower requirements than the CAA/JAA?

Last question is...

I have been having an almost throbing sensation in my left eye for the last few weeks. Its not done nothing to my vision or any other side affects such as head-aches, etc... Doctor says the eye is fine but go to the optician, the optician says check with the doctor but he cant see anything wrong...

Any one ever had this?

Doctor thinks its physcological but i am sure there is a physical sensation of throbing intermitantly once or twice a day...

[tigermagicjohn]

Easier vision requirements???

I think you would need to be a bit more specific on what you want to be easier.

It's fairly easy to find info if you go to the FAA official website and the JAR FCL 3 to compaire what you are looking for.

I would say easier is the wrong word, different regulations - still you need to be more specific.

[Mohit_C]

Thanks for the reply Arturo. I do tend to do those things you mention in your post whilst spending a lot of time in front of books.

After doing some browsing on the Internet, I came across this Rebuild Your Vision programme, and it seems quite convincing. Is there anyone on here that has tried it or is it all a fraud?

Mohit

[planecrazy.eu]

I see what you mean, easier is not really the correct word...

I shall re-phrase...

Year or so ago, failed C1 on Vision, it wasnt good enough to pass, but it was mighty close. So, i was wondering if there are any slightly less stringant medical authoraties or if there are requirements just a little less?

For the above post, i tried one of these vision programmes... Didnt work as far as getting a C1 was concerned as a started it 3 months before...

However, they make you feel more comfertable about with life without glasses/lenses as i can see better in everyday life and read with no correction, however i still cant see well enough to pass a C1...

I would be interested to know if any one has had good luck with these books or courses to improve vision

[Loose rivets]

A Pilot's viewpoint only.


Firstly, I'm sure that eye exercise is of some benefit, but I'm equally sure that it's not very great. The cilia-like suspension of the lens works in the opposite sense to the way most people think it should. Correction for poor near vision is like trying to push a piece of string.



Doctor thinks its physcological but i am sure there is a physical sensation of throbing intermitantly once or twice a day...Muscular spasms do tend to enter into a cyclic or diurnal pattern.

I wrote a lot about pain in the Extra Ocular muscles, and have just finished on another thread saying how bad Valium is, but I used it to test my theory that my E O muscles were causing weeks of pain. They were, and once I knew what it was, they stopped doing it. Often the mind work like that with spasms.

Taking just 2 or 3 tablets from the doctor, used only as a diagnostic tool, will ensure that your not tempted to take more.

http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/221939-bates-method.html#post2523979


http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/178554-eyes-class-1-a.html#post1939228

[jakeekaj]

Would this be ok for class 1?:sad:

Right
Sph = +3.75
Cyl = -0.25
Axis = 90.0

Left
Sph = +0.50
Cyl = -0.25
Axis = 20.0

Thanks.:):ok:

[waitec]

I am seriously considering doing Lasik.

May I please ask how much does vision fluctuate after the operation and how long these fluctuations take? I know that this is a subjective question. I am just after an average. Is night vision an issue?

For those who did it (preferably pilots who had Lasik in the UK) can you please recommend a specialist and place?

Thanks

[tigermagicjohn]

This will depend on what your prescription is. For small corrections short sighted could be very fast, 1 week, for long sighted my personal experience took 3 months - many days of very much worries, but got there in the end.
Accuvision in London did mine and was excellent.

[NurseToPilot]

It varies from person to person - I had lasik in march and gained my Class 1 in June

I wouldnt say i had fluctuations but the astigmatism of 3.75 i had corrected took about a month to settle. Immediately post lasik i had an astigmatism STILL of about 1.5.... but its now between 0.25 and 0.50 for which no glasses would be prescribed.

I had 3 consultations. One with ULTRALASE (£4000) one with OPTICAL EXPRESS (£3500) and finally a family run optician in Bolton called Clough's and had my treatment for £1900 (both eyes total price)

Don't believe all the HYPE that the big companies use to over sell their treatments as there is still no real evidence that you actually benefit from the machines they boast with bells on.

The consultant at Cloughs does his own consultations (the others have technicians who decide if you are suitable or not!!! - comforting eh!)

Night vision for me IMPROVED....

The problems people have reported in the past was due to the fact that no consideration was given to the PUPIL DILATION at night time..... the surgeons used to cut the flap apply the laser and put the flap back....

Then later on at night when the pupil dilated.... it might have dilated larger than the edge of the incision / flap hence the production of HALOS and HAZE where the person could SEE the flap's edge in the form of deflected light...

This was taken into consideration at my consultation and my pupils were measured to 7.5mm at their largest.... my flap was then cut at 8.0mm wide. The result is that I will NEVER see it even in total darkness!

I hope this helps you

Another person from this forum contacted me a while back re laser surgery and has since had it done!

If you need further information about my experiences etc either PM me or reply on this thread

JONATHAN

[waitec]

NurseToPilot & tigermagicjohn,

Thanks for your time to reply to my question.

My main concern is whether the fluctuations are so significant that they affect every day life and activities such as driving my car or minor and negligable.

Any personal experience would be greatly appreciated such as pain after the intervention and what you recommend I should do before and after.

Thanks once again

[AMEandPPL]

be nice if it were true!

You know that saying about "with a pinch of salt" . . . . . . ?

Well, you'll need an HGV to carry this particular pinch !


PS - at first sight this might seem a strange comment . . . .

but it was in response to a post containing this link :

which, for reasons best known to the poster, has since been deleted.

[NurseToPilot]

The "claim" is that you can be driving NEXT DAY...... obviously its all dependent on each individual..... and in most cases it IS TRUE...

For me however it was the day after next simply because of the size and shape of my flap that was cut it had to have its "hinge" at the nasal aspect rather than at the top.... so to stop gravity affecting the flap and the risk of it possibly sliding down and becoming misaligned i had a non prescription 'bandage' contact lens applied over my flap....

This made my vision 'soggy' because the water / fluds that were on my eye during the surgery had been trapped under it - so protein had built up in the hours after surgery making me feel like i had scum in my eyes!!

However when the contact lens was removed i rinsed my eyes with the drops given post op and my vision was near perfect!

I think the "fluctuations" you mean would have to be a PHYSICAL change in prescription "right in front of your eyes" kind of thing..... this wont happen...

My Astigmatism immediately post op was still 1.50 dioptres - bear in mind there may be oedema (water swelling) in the area causing the front of the eye not to be perfectly in the right place.... over the following week this must have settled as my astigmatism came down to 0.50.

(I only had a residual in my RIGHT eye. MY left eye was totally non prescription therefore the 1.50 diopter astigmatism in the right eye was not noticed as the left eye 'took over' and sort of cancelled out the blurring) so over the weeks of "settling" there were no visible fluctuations)

Now when its tested its usually in the range of 0.25-0.50.... this ISNT a fluctuation but merely a tolerance level between tests.. For example if you had 3 eye tests in 1 hour EVERY single on would have slight variations.

Hope this helps

JONATHAN

[PASCAL377]

Hi all, I'm going to do ryanair training course, and during our training we will have the medical exam and i have the following problem, i would like to know from you how many chance i have to pass it!
I have an ambliopya on my left eye, better know as lazy eye, and with my left eye aided i'm able to see 1 or 2/10 not better unfortunatly :ugh: (below the 6/9 as required) anyway my right eye is perfect, 100% of normal vision, and i'm able to see with it more than 10/10. How many chance i have to pass the medical exam and follow my dream?
Let me know about, thank you
Best Regards
Pasquale D'Errico

[dy1ng_to_fly]

This is strictly my opinion and not fact...
But I imagine that, as there is no second chances in an emergency, there is also no second chances in a medical

[hippotamus]

While I sympathise ( I know all about dodgy eyesight) I'm not sure how you expect to pass second time around? What are you expecting to change?

[Abusing_the_sky]

Pascal, one question: is it operable?

Whilst waiting for the pending answer... my 2 cents.

I'm sorry if i, by telling you the truth as i know it, am somehow ruining your dream.
If your left eyesight, even aided, isn't satisfactory and doesn't meet the safety requirements, then i'm afraid that, legally, you are not allowed to operate as crew.

One has to be medically fit in every way for emergency reasons. It might be a minor "eyesight defect" but not in this job.

I suggest you, if i may, to look for another (ground job) as i see you are quite passionate about the aviation industry. Perhaps you could apply for a job at your local airport with a ground handling company or research airlines who have their own handling staff. It might not sound so good but at least it'll give you a taste of what's it like to work in the aviation industry. It's a buzzing place, the thing about working in an airport is that you either hate it or love it, there's no way in between.

I do feel for you and i hope you find a way around this issue (i.e. my "operation" question); dreaming about something and not being able to achieve it is painful.

I wish you best of luck and let us know the outcome.

Rgds,
ATS

[PASCAL377]

yes, my eyes are operable but it's not sure if after the surgery treatment my left eye recovery at least for the minumum requested to work as cabin crew. I'm ready to start the training and to do my best to pass it and to reach the medicals day as planned.
In the meanwhile i'm praying, and maybe for that day God will be nice with me!
Otherwhise i try to follow your advise but it's not simple to work as handler in an airport!!
I will keep you updated, and thank you for your reply!

[planecrazy.eu]

Just wondering, but if your fit enough to get a Class One Medical, then wont you be fit enough to pass the company medical?

Does ryan air expect more that the re-validation requirements?

I have read loads of places where pilots of an older age couldnt pass the initial, but they can still fly as they meet and pass re-validation standards?

People have "OFF" days, and if the medical centre at Gatwick can accept this then dont see why a company cant? If yours stressed or trying to hard then your vision gets blured...

[hippotamus]

The question is from a cabin crew member wannabee rather than a pilot. Perhaps a reason why this thread shouldn't have been moved into this forum?

[llobregat]

Hello!

I am new here and I see there are a lot of people with the same problem as I have.
I didn't find an exact description of the Holmes Wright test that is taken at Gatwick, so if someone could say how intense are the lights,what colours are involved, the diameter of the light bulbs, some day to day things that have the same intensity. Thank you very much


Excuse my english

[AMEandPPL]

which, for reasons best known to the poster, has since been deleted

OK, so it is now apparent it was not deleted by the poster.

presumed that the poster had deleted it; why should anyone else do so ?

I'd now really like an answer to that question. OK, it might have been a bit dubious, a bit of quackery, but it was certainly of interest to our readers with CVD, and even specifically mentioned pilots and aviation. Surely that means it's OK to be discussed here ?

IF there really is a good reason for Sanjeev's claims to be barred from here, then why can we not be told what they are ? We are not toddlers, but adults who can make up our own minds. The really sickening thing is that these deletions (CENSORSHIP) are done with no explanation, no warning, and no discussion.

We deserve better treatment than this. . . . . . . may we please have better treatment ?

[Hawk]

Sanjeevan's claims are not disputed. However, the moderators' have to delete any "direct link" to a commercial website. Anyone who has had a positive result from any treatment is more than welcome to post their experience. Links are viewed by the Site owners as advertising.

Thank you
Hawk

[inverted123]

Hawk I posted this link so us CVD people could at least look at what people around the world claim or say they can do to help us, I am sure that we all stand in hope that one day some cure will arise.
I dont know how else I could have shown people what these people were offering and for us to investigate into them further. Regards inverted123

[sonjasun]

:Ohiya...I am sorry for being so daring to write in the thread for pilots but I am just a bit curious about what you were discussing.

I am wondering what does it mean 6/6 or 20/20...I know that it is the size and the distance in feet or cm....but what is the size 6 or size 20???? ehm...how big is it.... anyone can help? sorry for sounding so stupid:)

As it would be interesting to find out if I am gonna pass the medicals in Bahrain ( to become a Cabin Crew....not a pilot !!!) actually we are going to fly with nothing done in our countries....so, don´t wanna fail and end up jobless after all that waiting.

Thanks a lot.

Sonia:O

[Neo_RS14]

The unquestionable data from the USA, Canada and Australia reveals how 'dangerous' CVD pilots really are :rolleyes: - in fact, it is quite interesting to note that each of these countries permits CVD pilots to fly commercially (in Australia, at night also) yet, statistically, over the same time period their safety records are far better than those of many other countries, including certain JAA member states.

Yet they choose to ignore that data in favour of their own very flawed, archaic and biased arguments.


These are very important points indeed.

The very fact there aren't any safety issues abroad illustrate that similar standards should be made available worldwide, across the board. There shouldn't be any issue of one aviation authority being stricter than the others over a thing that does not vary from birth to death.

Ultimately things will even out, Human Rights are important. It's just a matter of when and how.

Maybe when William comes into power:ok:

[Neo_RS14]

Point taken, hilarious post as well, it has to be said.:D

At least you have the warmth and sunshine to temporarily take your mind off the injustice:}.

Effing freezing 'ere!!! And fireworks galore!

[Arturo Lan]

Hi,

6/6 or 20/20 is a measurment of visual acuity used as a standard. When you have 20/20 vision it means that you are able to see from 20 feet away what a person with "normal" vision would see from 20 feet. If you have 20/40 for example it means you can see from 20 feet awat what a person with "normal" vision would be able to see from 40 ft, thus your vision would not be as good as that person and so on.
6/6 is the same but measured in meters.
People who don´t have 20/20 vision without glasses wear spectacles or contacts in order to achieve this standard.
Some people have better than 20/20. It would be something like maybe 20/15.

Hope this helps.
Arturo

[2papabravo]

Would anyone hazard a guess whether the 3 month lapse of Class 1 following laser surgery will ever be reduced further?

Following surgery for minor/moderate myopia (no astigmatism), most people I speak to seem to say the vision is fine within a matter of weeks.

I have a Class 1 and don't NEED to have it done, but would like one day to throw away the glasses/contacts. I doubt an employer would sign off a 3 month holiday whilst you wait to become medically valid again!

Would be nice if the CAA maybe looked at it case-by-case. The numbers of active pilots getting laser surgery is probably relatively small. A check up 2 weeks after the surgery may indicate everything is fine and work can commence again.

Interested in anybody's thoughts on this...

[llobregat]

Thanks for the info. Anyone knows what are the chances of an mild anomalous trichromat to pass the Holmes Wright test?

[Shunter]

One word: bollocks.

I expect the "classes" are simply memorising the plates.

[AMEandPPL]

Why don't we do some investigating

inverted123 - you might like also to investigate just why your posts linking to Sanjeevan's alleged "cure" were unceremoniously deleted, while post # 999 has now remained untouched for well over 24 hours.


Done. Thanks for picking that one up. I must have missed it. BM

[Afraz]

Can you wear glasses and still pass the class 1 medical? These were the most recent results from my eye examination at Vision Express (i dont think they are the best):

Dist Sph Cyl Axis

Right -4.50

Left -4.50 -02.5 45


Aided VA Dist

Right 6/6

Left 6/6

[Hawk]

Hi Afraz, thanks for your post. In terms of a formal answer to your question the best we can do on a website is quote the appropriate regulatory authority vision guidelines. The direct interpretation of your results is up to your AME of course. Nevertheless, there is some useful information and discussion on the Vision thread about eyesight in general.

Please be cautious about taking on face value any "expert" opinion.
Best wishes
Hawk

[NurseToPilot]

Your SPHERE measurement is within the allowed limits for correction with glasses or contact lenses however teh CYLINDER (astigmatism) is -2.5, and would need to be discussed with the CAA

For class 1 medical certification you need to be within 2.0 to pass the INITIAL and 3.0 to pass the renewal/revalidation......

NORMALLY in this case if you are outside the INITIAL limit you may still be awarded the class 1 with a restriction until you pass your CPL but as said you would need to discuss this with the CAA on an individual basis

I had LASIK to correct an astigmatism of -3.75 (it is now -0.25)

HOPE THIS HELPS

JON

[Afraz]

my cyl is as it says on sheet of paper is -0.25.

[Afraz]

is Cyl -0.25 the same as -2.5?

[Blues&twos]

There's been some confusion about your cyl because your original post says

Dist Sph Cyl Axis

Right -4.50

Left -4.50 -02.5 45

I assume you meant to type -0.25?

[Afraz]

Yes I did mean to type -0.25. Sorry about that, completly my fault and I take the blame.

[inverted123]

Ok Guys, i have been given a number to call Dr.K.K.Goyal .
"Quote" "We do not use any special glasses or contacts for the treatment.The treatment is completely natural without any aid."

Dr.K.K.Goyal.

Very interesting LETS FIND OUT MORE!!

[AMEandPPL]

Very interesting, LETS FIND OUT MORE !!

I agree entirely, though must admit I'm still very sceptical ! Conventional medical wisom and teaching is that CVD is simply NOT amenable to change. However, many important medical advances have happened in some most unexpected ways over the years in the past.

What is much more alarming is that debate on this very important subject is so stifled as it is on here. Whiskey, I apologise for whistle-blowing on your post. It might have remained longer if the mods' vision was a bit below JAR standards ! ! :sad: Well, let's face it, on here if you didn't laugh, you'd cry !
I must have missed it

[Bad medicine]

What is much more alarming is that debate on this very important subject is so stifled as it is on here.

Nope, debate is not stifled at all. The posting of links to commercial sites, without the site owners' consent, is not allowed under the site rules. You know it, and have known it for a long time. Yet for reasons best known to yourself, you still attempt to hijack threads to further your own agenda.

BM

[NurseToPilot]

In this case your prescription SEEMS to fall within the JAR / JAA / CAA requirements but they normally assess each case on an individual basis so it is ALWAYS a good idea to contact them directly for advice if you cannot make 100% sense of their documentation!

[Malta_Flyer]

If you hold a Class 1, and all of a sudden your myopia has increased out of initial limits (nothing too dramatic..somewhere between -6 and -8 diopters), you can still get 6/6 correction with your specs and you have no pathology...can the doc NOT revalidate your medical???

My question comes from the 'MAY CONSIDER' wording in the requirements. Its like we dont have anything to support our claim that we are suitable..as a lot seems to be left to the discretion of the AME!

[NurseToPilot]

Why would your MYOPIA 'suddenly' change?

I would think that you had some pathological problems if you jump 2 diopters over night?

-6 or -8 IS dramatic thats a steep prescription!

Again i RE ITERATE the documentation "may consider" suggests once again that the CAA will treat each case individually and you cannot base your experience on that of the last or next person - ASK THEM for advice



JON

[Mohit_C]

In response to Malta_Flyer.

That very same question I did to an AME in Madrid when I last went for my renovation for my Class 1 Medical test. According to the AME, if you are working for an airline or are performing duties related to your licence and if you do tend to drift away from the limit of -8 dioptres, then they won't revoke the Class 1 Medical certificate.

I actually am quite worried too about my eyesight getting worse, especially about my astigmatism (2.5 dioptres). I just feel so encouraged to have LASIK, but then the recovery time is an issue plus the possibilty of losing permanently the medical certificate. On the other hand, I also feel a good alternative using the "Rebuild Your Vision" programme, however many posts on this forum don't clearly state whether it's just a waste of money or "does do some benefit".

[2papabravo]

NurseToPilot,

I don't think Malta Flyer meant that your prescription changes overnight from -6 to -8, that's crazy. I think he means that your prescription drifts into that banding. And if so, what are the implications on medical renewals?

On an additional note, does anyone have any stats on number of Class 1 holders that have had LASIK? Any ideas?

2pb

[Malta_Flyer]

No absolutely not. I meant obtaining your class one with close to the initial limit, and then drifting off to close to -8 over a number of years (say 5 or 6 years).

I agree that -6 or -8 is a steep prescription. However lets look at it this way, the CAA considers someone with a -6 to be healthy enough for a class 1 initial! Also, until some years ago, someone with a -8 was definitely healthy enough for a revalidation. The point is that if this guy can read the bottom numbers just like anyone else, why stop him from moving forward? Mind you, my optician often remarks that he has people with a correction of -0.75 or -1 who still cant see 6/6!!

As Mohit_C said, I believe there is quite a bit of tolerance nowadays. Infact strictly speaking, it even says on the CAA site that there is NO myopic limit for renewal an revalidation. However when your beloved career is at stake...that 'MAY consider fit' starts to worry you!! Do you know of anyone who actually LOST his medical due to myopia at revalidation?

[Canada Goose]

My last eye test was August 2005 and I specifically had it for Class 1 renewal purposes. Since then there has been a change (relaxation) in the eye testing periodicity. My last Class 1 was August 2007 and since I am only really flying GA at present and with no job insight, (in fact, I’m not looking anymore), I am flying on Class 2 privileges. I will have to renew my medical next August but not sure if I will bother with Class 1 or 2 at this moment.

Anyway, to cut to the chase. I want to get a new pair of specs and prescription sun glasses and since my last eye exam was 3 years ago I felt I should have a new one in case the prescription has changed. However, as those who wear glasses know, the CAA want additional info and forms to be filled in, which of course an optician charges more for. Now my question is, given I am now over 40 (42 in Jan 09) is it worth my while (money and hassle) of getting the optician to do these extra tests etc in readiness for my next medical or will it be out of date by the time I need to present my eye test results given the change in the rules.

I’ve tried looking on the back of my medical certificate, in LASORS and on the CAA website but can’t find any definitive info, so can any knowledgeable soul please advise. Thanks for sticking with it and reading my long winded scribe !!

Cheers, CG.

[Canada Goose]

I fear I may have written an overly complicated thread so let me try and put it more succinctly! :O

1. How often does one have to have an eye test for CAA medical renewals ?
2. If I had an eye test now (including completion of CAA forms), how would it remain valid for ?

Cheers,
CG.

[Neo_RS14]

JetBlue,

My friend, you are in an extremely favourable position in comparison to 98% of the posters on this mammoth double thread which goes back as far as 2001 or so...

This is because you have a shot at the light gun test...There are loads of things you can do to prepare for that....head down to some airports, maybe make a call to an ATC tower and be polite and explain your situation, and ask if they'd possibly give you an example of the lights.

There are even some clips of the lights on youtube...you also have an opportunity to try the other forms of tests first...do as much research on all of these tests, and understand how they work etc....

Do your absolute best and make sure you get through this...you have an INCREDBILE opportunity, make sure you make good use of it...

Fail the tests here, then thats it, end of the line.

Do your best, you can make it.

[Ouseburn]

Hi,

If at the time of obtaining a CAA Class 1 initial medical I was wearing glasses to correct my vision but later on wanted to wear contact lenses whilst flying, does anybody know if I would have to retake the visual test at the CAA in order to get the contact lenses certified?

Thanks

[Shunter]

Im a little worried about the light gun test because you can only take it twiceFind me someone who's failed it once and I'll be impressed! It's easy.

[Bips]

After a long silence from the CAA Medical Dept I phoned them to find out that my perscription of -8.25 & -1.25cycl in each eye was outside the range for both class 1 & 2. Other than that I have no medical issues.
They told me there is no appeal process worth following and barring a change of rules (which they think would't happen for at least 3 years) there was no way they would issue a medical certificate to fly.

They told me to contact NPPL for further information on their requirements and restrictions.

Has anyone ever overturned this? Or have I run out of runway here..

[2papabravo]

Bips,

Was this for a renewal or were you going for an initial medical? If its initial, the limits are -6 dioptres. If its renewal, there shouldn't be issue as there is no upper limit.

If they indicate no other options, then I'm afraid that could be it.

2pb

[Mr Grimsdale]

I'm considering starting my ATPL ground exams next year and will attempt to get a class 1 medical before in order to determine if it is worthwhile investing in the ground exams and training.

My eyesight is just outside the class 1 requirements but my optician, who works at Moorfields in London, insists he knows plenty of commercial pilots with worse eyesight than me.

Can anyone offer any advice on this?

[C172 Hawk XP]

my optician, who works at Moorfields in London, insists he knows plenty of commercial pilots with worse eyesight than mine

Vision standards are higher for the initial Class 1 than for all subsequent renewals. That's a fact.

Whether that is fair or sensible is entirely another debate !

[Jetblue190]

Im a little confused about how many times you can take the signal light test in the USA. Sone people have told me you can take it twice, but others have said you can only take it once and if you fail it thats it. Does anyone know for sure how many times you can take it? An correct me if im wrong, if you take the FALANT test and pass it, you have to re-take it every time you go to renew your medical.

Thanks

[Mr Grimsdale]

Thanks for clearing that up.
So with -5.25 in both eyes it looks like I've saved myself the cost of a class 1.

[C172 Hawk XP]

If you have typed the MINUS 5.25 correctly, then you are probably OK.

Look here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED-JARClass1InitialVisStds[2189].pdf

and you will see, inter alia :

If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight

But the best way by far, instead of speculating on here, is to ask your optician to contact the CAA Med Dept directly with your exact eye details. He will get a prompt, polite and thorough response.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Thanks for the link and tip C172 Hawk XP, much appreciated.:ok:

[NurseToPilot]

It has nothing to do with whether you see perfectly or not ....

Its because of the RISK of retinal detachment!

The higher the myopia the greater the risk of you suffering from a retinal detachment.

Having lasik re shapes the cornea to compensate for the myopia but it does NOT change the shape of the eye that causes the myopia in the first place...

Therefore having 20/20 vision is one thing but if you 're at 37,000 ft in the air and suffer a retinal detachment you're in serious trouble.

[4eyedfreak]

I'm almost in the same boat as flankerpilot. I had laser surgery 3 months ago from -7 and -5.5 to 20/20 in both eyes. Are the CAA strict on the -6 limit or is there any leeway if the corrected vision is perfect?

Thanks

[NurseToPilot]

CAA will treat each case on its own merit.... you MUST contact them and ask what your options are.... I did and gained my CLASS 1 in JUNE 08.

I had lasik to correct my astigmatism of -3.75 to -0.25 (CAA LIMIT ±2.00)

Please note that ASTIGMATISM is not the same as MYOPIA therefore the restrictions are different.... for example having a high astigmatism doesn't produce risk of retinal detachment which is why the myopia limit is imposed!

Hope this helps

JON

PS anybody wanting advice / my experiences of LASIK feel free to contact me I'm more than happy to share with you.

[Shunter]

But I wonder how many other people were told that?Me, for starters. Incidentally I now have an unrestricted class 1 medical. It's a crap system with no scientific foundation whatsoever.

[LeeMaxwell]

Hi All,

I'm trying to reconcile JAA class 1 visual requirments with the results of my specsavers basic eyesight report.

Here are the results of the specsavers report I received today (the lady said I need glasses, but I'm sceptical as I know some are under a lot of commercial pressure when it comes to borderline cases:8): -

Right eye: Sph -050 Cyl -050 Axis 90
Left eye: Sph -050 Cyl -025 Axis 80


I hope to do an initial class (JAA) one medical next month. Can anyone say if I meet the requirements? Also, even if I meet JAA requirements, does anyone know if the airline's requirements are higher?

Greatly appreciated, many thanks,
Lee

[gijoe]

Ed,

All or most of the colours???

If Gatwick didn't need all of the colours then that is very interesting....:ok:....As 2close said there are very many on here who would be interested to know that.

G

[Rasco]

Thanks 2close. :)

Confidence is back up, at least some of it. Still, I'm officially color unsafe here in Sweden.

There's one more medical clinic here in Sweden approved to do the first class 1 medical. The question has been brought up before. If I fail/pass a new exam in Sweden, will I experience any obstacles with Luftfartsstyrelsen(the Swedish Aviation Authority), since I'm already stamped as "color unsafe" in their files?

Or should I directly try doing the exams through another JAR-country and try my luck? If so, where?

[flyingsheep]

I am currently a holder of a UK class 1 with deviation due to my astigmatism and i am in a serious dilemma. My astigmatism is 2.50 on both eyes and I am in my early 20s, should I consider a laser surgery to make sure that my astigmatism will not exceed the limit of 3.0. And can please someone explain to me what will happen after my surgery (career wise, Will I be suspend from work for 6 months or more?)

FYI: I still haven’t started my advanced flight training, if I do have the surgery should I get it done before I start?

[Mohit_C]

flyingsheep, I am in the exact same condition as you with the exact worry, astigmatism 2.50, not even twenty and towards the end of doing my ATPLs, however I have a Spanish DGAC Class 1 Medical. Eventhough my myopia did increase after the initial, it is within limits for the renewal, but what does worry me is this limitation on astigmatism. I'm curious too about what to do...

[bucket_and_spade]

As I undertstand it, astigamatism tends to have stabilised by the early-to-mid twenties (which seems to be born out by the spread in astigmatism initial and renewal limits - only 1 dioptre. Compare this to the spread in short-long sight requirements).

I went through the Deviation route myself - I don't think it's any longer available to people.

Your absolute best bet is an email/call to the CAA themselves - you can speak to one of the eye specialists.

B&S

[2close]

Hi guys,

May I ask what deviation has been imposed and on what grounds?

By that, I mean what are the clinical reasons for imposition of the deviation and on what aviation safety basis?

Cheers,

2close

[bucket_and_spade]

2close,

The old Deviation route used to be available to those who had eyesight meeting the renewal limits but not the initial limits. The procedure for me was that I had to get a PPL and go for a Class I medical after that. I was issued a Class I (Deviation) - as expected. I then did pro training and was issued with a CPL (A). The Deviation was then removed and I now hold a bog-standard Class I medical (with a requirement for corrective lenses of course).

I'm flying for a living now and haven't really kept up with the current requirements but I think the limits were relaxed in some areas a few years ago (with the Deviation route being phased out).

B&S

[steve_uniacke]

Hey guys, just a quick update for those following my post.

I manged to get my Class 1 in the end after I got refractive surgery to reduce the anisometropia (difference in refraction between 2 eyes). I had to get laser eye surgery and wait 6 months, but managed to get it in the end.

Also, the squint as it was fairly minor didn't have any impact on the results.I now have a class 1 without any restrictions.

So, I guess my final thought for any of you in a similar situation or not is go get assessed and good luck with it!

Steve

[RMarvin86]

Hello Steve,
well done with your class 1.
I've a 2.50 dioptres of astigmatism in my left eye but luckily I did take my initial examination at the age of 16 when I was under 2 dioptres.
My astigmatism is stable since 1 year and according to my ophthalmologist it should not get worse but there's even the chance to see it improving with the ageing as it's combined with hypermetropia.

Can I ask you if you reach a normal visual acuity with your lenses? With my astigmatic eye I do reach only 8-9/10 with spectacles. Some people told me it's a light ambliopia other that it's caused by the high degree of astigmatism, don't know.

[steve_uniacke]

RMarvin86,

At the moment I don't need correction after the LASEK.

Before I had the procedure i had -1 in the left (which i still have) and -4.5 in the right... and I had them corrected with glasses both to 6/5 vision. This wasn't enough for my initial medical.

This caused a large degree of refractive error difference between the 2 eyes. (Anisometropia) and that was in excess of 2 dioptres, so i failed my initial eye test based on that.

When it was corrected, the astigmatic component of my right eye was removed and my vision went to 6/5 in my right eye. My left remained unchanged at 6/6 with a -1 astigmatic component.

hope this answers your question.

steve

[RMarvin86]

Yes steve thanks for your answer.

I've always been worried about my eye condition and getting informations about other astigmatic pilot's is always of help.

RM86

[Air1980]

Hello All,

The best way to get any advice per your eyesight is to email the CAA at Gatwick directly. For years growing up in Blighty I had been told my eyes were too bad for the Class 1 and I should consider other careers. Well, came to the states and have had 10 years of happy flying - Capt on an E145 and now F/O on the 744. Never had a problem with passing the FAA 1st Class. With the US not looking so rosy anymore I emailed the CAA with my prescription: -5.50, -.25 each eye with a slight astigmatism in the left. Was told unequivocally that there was ' no problem' and that I should pass. Going next week and really not that concerned now, so by all means email them - otherwise you'll be a bag of nerves and will fail the blood pressure portion......!!!

[Northern_Lights]

Hi,

I just wanted to say that natural vision therapy has worked for me. My myopia was -5.00/-5.25 according to an eyetest last year. It's now -3.75/-4.0 according to an eyetest conducted last week.

The main thing I did was avoid wearing glasses as much as possible, and also, wearing a reduced prescription (one diopter less than my full prescription). I also did some Bates stuff (palming etc) and another set of exercises called 'power vision' exercises which helped a lot.

I think it's worth trying natural methods before going for surgery, if one has the time that is! These methods do take a fair amount of commitment and patience, but they've been effective so far for me, and I intend to continue them.

Best wishes,
Northern Lights

[Neo_RS14]

I must agree, eye exercises work. I started going short-sighted at 14 with many people in my family strongly myopic. But I managed to stave off having to wear them full time, and then not having to wear them at all...passing the driving sight test without them. My vision isn't perfect, but I have 20/20 apparently so I'm very pleased with that.

It is something I have to work at constantly, as with reading, and screen work, my distance vision reduces.....but relaxing the facial muslces, neck, forehead + jaw, a bit of light massage...I can increase my distance sight.

The exercises I do are focussing from left to centre, down to centre etc etc...then a couple of rotations in each direction 'around the clock', and a good firm blink or two at the end....a few times a day. It's worked for me. Check your neck, upper back posture, that can have a knock on effect on tension in the face and scalp.:ok:

[C172 Hawk XP]

My myopia was -5.00/-5.25 according to an eyetest last year. It's now -3.75/-4.0 according to an eyetest conducted last week

Not very convincing, I'm afraid ! You don't actually give your age, but from other clues I'm surmising that you're still pretty young. It is a well known phenomenon that during certain phases of life, and especially in the late teens / early twenties, significant changes in visual acuity can occur (usually a move making the eyes somewhat less myopic) for absolutely no demonstrable reason whatsoever. Chances are that is all that's happening.

I do agree, however, that eye exercises can do absolutely no harm !

[HVYMETLDRIVERWANNABE]

GREAT THREAD! I wished I noticed this earlier... anyways I posted this in the military thread but to no avail and I read through a lot of this thread but not all so I apologize if its already been covered. I'll check my PMs as well:

Hey I just need some quick advice, I'm going through the process of getting into the Army. I'm a Commercial/Multi/Instrument rated pilot with 1400TT fixed wing looking to jump over the rotorcraft side and fly for the United States Army.

I did well on the ASVAB and the physical went well except that I failed color vision portion. I've always been able to pass the FAA first class medical because the flight surgeon always gave me a secondary test and checked my vision of colors by questioning. It has never been an issue until now...

Anyways, my question... is there any chance of me getting into WOFS? Or should I just give up now? I'd be pretty dissappointed if I can't get in, but I'd rather know now than go through the AFAST, flight physical, get letters of recommendation, etc. only to be told I'm SOL... http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/sowee.gif

[Northern_Lights]

NeoRS14, well done on managing to stave off myopia! The exercises I learnt off the power vision book , which I find very effective, are pretty much the same as what you've described. i.e. eye movements to strengthen the outer muscles of the eye- "ocular stretching" .

The other really useful method it contains is the technique of "print pushing" ('retinal defocus') where you hold a book at the point where the letters just blur, and then practice eye movements to bring the letters into focus. It's sounds a bit weird but I find it works pretty well. The downside is that one has to do it everyday for at least half an hour to see decent improvements in vision.

Good luck everyone! :)

[HVYMETLDRIVERWANNABE]

Thanks for the reply.

I can't remember what they all actually mean is

ASVAB: AS Vocational Aptittude Battery- the entry test you take upon entering the US Military, its a major part in deciding what jobs you qualify for

AFAST: If you want to be a pilot you take this test, its a basic flight knowledge test this may be Army only

WOFS: Warrant Officer Flight School/ Warrant Officer Flight Training

SOL: Sh*t Outta Luck! :ok:

[Mickey Kaye]

Utter, utter rubbish

[Loose rivets]

I've posted on this forum about the Rivetess' attempts at improving her eyesight. She got the old, "Better Sight Without Glasses." By the time she was half way through this book...with it's quaint old English, she needed glasses.


Utter, utter rubbish. Is it all rubbish?

What think you to the to strengthen the outer muscles of the eye- "ocular stretching" . part?

I've written quite a lot on how the brain can fine tune eyesight with the Extra-ocular muscles. In my case, it backfired on me in a very unpleasant way after a lifetime of being told, "Your better than some chaps just starting." an AME. "You have fabulous eyesight." A Colchester eye surgeon. But the pain in my eyes after I suffered a double PVD, seemed unexplainable and caused me weeks of grief.

When no one was able to help me, I finally worked out that these muscles were going into spasm. Trying to focus past a load of debris in the eyes had become impossible, and the focusing logic seemed to go on full lock. I used the drug that I protest about so much, Valium, to test the theory. After weeks, 5mg of the dreaded drug switched off the spasm within 30 mins.

I have to say that I try to preach the word on this every time I can. I was days with pain killers, in a dark room for 48 hours...nothing helped, as soon as I went back to gentle use, the spasm came back. As is so often the case with things that Valium will 'cure', knowing the cause stopped the feedback loop, and I was fine. I used it a couple of more times over the next month. 15mg in all.

Back to the original 'theory'. So many people think that the cilia-like strands - that surround the lens - are muscles in their own right. The relevant muscles are wrapped round these 'strands' and work in the opposite direction to the way most people expect.

When folk try to avoid age-related long sightedness by exercise, it's as though they are attempting to push a piece of string. An exercise in futility. But is it totally impossible for the opposite improvement to be made?

[Mac the Knife]

Read all about it.

Eye-Related Quackery (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/eyequack.html)

:ok:

[C172 Hawk XP]

Thanks for that, Mac !

After reading that, I'm now even less convinced !
I'll stick to my varifocals, thanks !

[Lancelot37]

Note, I'm in my 70s and do not now fly other than as pax.

A recent eye test resulted in me being told that my eye sight was below the standard required to drive a car.

The test was conducted at a branch of one of the largest spec groups in the U.K.

I was told that they could bring my eye sight to within the requirements to drive, by wearing specs.

Collected a pair for reading and a pair for driving. I've never doubted my eye sight before this test and have driven over 2,000,000 miles. I would have sold my car if I had any suspicion of a problem.

On my first venture wearing the driving glasses it was immediately noticeably that I could see better without them. Things appeared blurred in the far distance.

Wearing the reading glasses I had to sit with my eyes 4 inches from the computer instead of the (since measured) 22".

I went back to the optician today and they ordered another eye test. I was told that I did not need spec to drive and that my eye sight was close to perfect for my age. The reading lenses were changed for another pair and I can now read the computer without a problem.

A long story and what I have written is only brief summary of what went on. I was offered a full refund.

The whole point is that I could have sold my car, but where is the professionalism when it comes to eye tests for pilots?

Like any group of "experts" there can be differing outcomes.

I'll be drinking much more alcohol tonight in celebration!

[SilveR5]

Hello guys...

I badly need help!
This hasn't been discussed enough before...

A condition name is Exotropia (outward deviation of one eye)...no any other visual impairment except for loss of stereotepic vision.

I've read a previous a post of one user here saying that the UK CAA has assessed him as fit for class 1 medical while having the exact above description of the condition.

Can anybody confirm that Exotropia is not a JAR FCL requirement?!

I appreciate your consideration

[planecrazy.eu]

Does vision therapy help? I dont know!

But does it make vision worse? NO!

If you think you can see better, then you do. My optician proved this to me, when i got all stressed about not been able to see well.

So maybe you cant make your eyes better, but maybe you can make your mind work with your eyes better so you can see that bit better?

I have read loads and loads about this. 50% says its rubbish, 50% says its correct.

I have three family members who all gave up correction in early teens and all with a similar perscription as myself. By the time of early 20;s they passed the driving test without correction.

My brother had around +3.5, gave up at 12 wearing specs, at age 17 passed driving test.

Saying driving test as they check your vision by reading a plate, not scientific i know, but may go to show that specs shouldnt be the only treatment available.

I, myself have never took my specs of my face, and my vision got a little bit worse each time i went back.

Few years ago i went to wearing my glasses around 75% of the time, and now feel i can see a little better without them on, so next month when i have my 2 year check i will find out if its all in the mind.

Dont think there is a definative answer, as for all the phd's, m.d's and the likes that say its possible, there are the same ammount that says its rubbish.

My advice would be to just try the book if "you" think it may help. Its not going to do any harm, and maybe it can do some good? If you never try, you'll never know. So the few $$ for the book is worth the knowing in my opinion.

Oh, i dont sell these books by the way ;-)

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Guy's
have a look at this thread;

http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/354871-medical-not-valid-when-using-sunglasses.html


Very interesting.

[Loose rivets]

so next month when i have my 2 year check i will find out if its all in the mind.

The trouble is, that all vision is in the mind, and you can train the incoming information to mean more to you. This blurs (I know!)...this blurs one's assessment of how well muscle training helps a given prescription.

Your eyes move 2 to 3 times a second, each new scene seemingly refreshing the field, and according to new research at University of Münster in Germany, you have already, in part at least, modeled the target before you lock on to the new image. This is exciting new work - only made possible by fMRI machines - and it spells out our mind's ability to modify our sight, of not totally construct it in the first place.

Similar work has shown that we turn up the contrast when we view items of high value. Well, items that the subject perceives as high value to them. So, more data might be processed when a pilot looks at an instrument panel - as apposed to a tree, or a bag of shopping for example. By this, I mean the initial image, not all the processing done to convert the picture into a flight situation.

'We' seem to be at the end of an authority chain when it comes to structuring that final image.

All this goes towards making me think that some improvement may be caused by our concentration, the nature of the subject cranking up the processing power. It is very difficult to be sure that the final model in the mind is improved entirely by an image that is being fine-tuned by willpower alone.

[Loose rivets]

Deleted post about searching, cos I didn't search enough m'self.:\

[planecrazy.eu]

This thread has in the main focused on getting ready for, or can i pass, etc, but its all about the actual Aaviation Auth test.

I was wondering this.

You scrape your C1 (Yippeee) but then you get called in for an interview and get given an airline medical (new worry).

I am trying to get at, what do airlines expect from your vision?

Do they have initial and renewal?

Do then take age into consideration? or maybe degeneration from Initial C1?

C1 renewal is well within the reach of most posting there things on here, but i am guessing that airlines may have much tigher requirements?

But yet again, like i say, just guessing!

[Loose rivets]

Hey fireoff and 172 My mistake!


The first bit about not re-posting was probably good advice, but the second, as 172 says, was not. I've got so involved in a huge tome and another web site all dealing with modern neuo-mapping in the visual field, that I'd forgotten we were on an open thread. Mea culpa.


There was a thread dedicated to better sight without glasses, I'll go and hide there.:cool:

[Shunter]

Chucky, I recommend you spend this evening reading this thread from start to finish.

One of the key factors to passing the tests is knowing how they work. Knowing that the reds, greens, whites etc.. will change their hue (shade) during the test. There isn't simply 1 red, 1 green, 1 white. The CAA don't bother to tell you this, so although you think, "That looks like a green to me, but it can't be, the last one was green and it wasn't the same as that....", it IS green, and your brain is distracted by what is essentially a mindgame. There is detailed information on the tests if you read back far enough.

I failed the tests at Gatwick, but after substantial research and finding out exactly how these tests operate I had no problem passing an alternative JAA approved test in Switzerland.

Just my 2c.

[ollywood]

Alrite Guys,
Just wanted to know if anyone has used any natural eyesight improvement programmes especially the Bates method or the one by Orlin Sorensen and basically do they work?? Am a bit sceptical as they seem a little too good to be true tbh!
Am contemplating trying one, any recommendations as to which one to go for?

Also how far can they actually go to giving you 'perfect eyesight' as they claim to??

Any help appreciated
Olly

[punit]

Hey mate I would recommend anyone to do yoga, not the yoga that you might think of at the moment but it is called anulombh vilombh(indian name for it) and kapalbhati pranayam( indian name), these are done by a great yogi called swami ramdev who is extremely good at yoga and i had glasses for 9 years and now i don't need to use no glasses my sight is perfectly fine now, even checked with optician and he was surprised. so try it
type in google patanjali yog pith and in the website purchase his english version of the book it is extremely good. i had a change in 6 months and i had number of 4.0 in left eye an 3.25 in the right

[Loose rivets]

Mmm...If I had to make an unqualified guess, I'd say that you were causing the error by tension in the extraocular muscles, and the yoga relaxed them.

See Wiki

What astonishes me, is the error can be very constant...almost as if some feedback signal is giving wrong data and setting the eye to the wrong focus. Only when the entire system is truly at rest, can an optician make an accurate assessment of your prescription. Happily, it seems that not many people are thus affected.

[planecrazy.eu]

Hey

this is a reply to the yoga thing. Read it a few days ago (post) and downloaded the material (free via another source).

I tried this 1 hour in the evening, so three hours all in all.

First up, i could read a 7mm letter at a distance of 1m with no correction.

Just tried my last attempt, and now i am at 4mm at 1m, so thats loads of improvement.

I think its all in the mind, but cant find out how to convert this to a visual accurity.

If i calculated right it should be 24mm letter at 6m distance, but whats that in terms of 6/6 etc?

I will say, i didnt think in the mind i could read the letters, but i did get them correct, i needed 6mm letters after three days to feel confident that i could see them without feeling i was guessing them, which i did at 4mm, even though i got them all correct and just to be sure i didnt memorise them i printed a few more pages out of random letters at 4mm.

Someone help converting it, as i want to see if this is the same as what i get at the opticians and i have wasted my time.

20/50 is what i can see in the opticians with no correction, and 20/25 with correction.

My eyes fall within CAA limits, always have done, but i just cant crack that 20/20 line which is what my goal is, and will try anything no matter how stupid it sounds.

[Rasco]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know any nice AMC's where I could do the anomaloscopy?
I'm not allowed to do another examination in my home country.

Take care guys!

[cx252]

Hi everyone,

I have done my eye test today and it comes out with the result are listed below,

R: SPH -5.25, CYL -1.50 and AXIS 17
L : SPH -5.50, CYL -1.00 and AXIS 10

Am I still qualified as correctable 20/20 standard to be a airline pilot?


Best Regards

[planecrazy.eu]

To the above, your ok up to -6, so that falls within limits.

However, i am guessing that your best bet is to send the last three opticians reports to them and get their opinion.

If you can see 20/20 or 6/6 corrected, then you should be ok.

[alexw9]

I'm not really educated on understanding vision and if I would qualify for a class 1 medical with the CAA, so would appreciate if someone could guide me.

I recently had some eye test and my result's are as follows.

Unaided vision is 6/5 R and L (binocular 6/4)

Prescription:
R +0.75/-0.25 x 180
L +2.25/-0.25 x 120

Near Vision:
N4 at 30-50cm
N8 at 100cm

Cover test shows a small alternating esotropia (near only)

I will of course be contacting the CAA with regards to my vision as well as other medical issues I have, but if someone could give me an educated answer if my vision is good enough I would appreciate it greatly.

Regards,

Alex

[Paradise Lost]

There has been much discussion about eyesight improving or deteriorating at fairly short intervals. I haven't yet seen any reference to hydration relative to ocular accuity.
My eyes dimmed due to normal wear and tear at the age of 53, so I am now compelled to CARRY glasses for near vision (not WEAR them?).
The next 2 AvMeds carried out by the same doc. showed that now I don't need to carry them! Too late to remove it from my Class 1 Med cert but interesting nonetheless. The conclusion we came to is that due to dehydration (arrived straight from 12 hr night flight), the check that necessitated my "carry glasses" anotation, was considerably worse than when I presented myself subsequently properly rested, hydrated and alcohol-free.
An example that may demonstrate this to you, is how difficult it is to read tiny print first thing in the morning after a 'session', but it becomes quite easy to read in the afternoon when the H20 levels are back to normal.

[alexw9]

I'm not really educated on understanding vision and if I would qualify for a class 1 medical with the CAA, so would appreciate if someone could guide me.

I recently had some eye test and my result's are as follows.

Unaided vision is 6/5 R and L (binocular 6/4)

Prescription:
R +0.75/-0.25 x 180
L +2.25/-0.25 x 120

Near Vision:
N4 at 30-50cm
N8 at 100cm

Cover test shows a small alternating esotropia (near only)

I will of course be contacting the CAA with regards to my vision as well as other medical issues I have, but if someone could give me an educated answer if my vision is good enough I would appreciate it greatly.

Regards,

Alex

Without trying to sound a bit cheeky, is there anyone that can advise me, please?

Cheers

[bethkait]

I just stumbled across your thread after having this test during a medical for a job interview yesterday. I have never had this test before.

When I was looking through the instrument I could not see any of the numbers on the right hand side where the white arrow was pointing. My vision was blocked by the metal bar on the right hand side of the instrument. I could see the red arrow and numbers on the left and I could see the white arrow but no numbers at all above it.

The doctor was pretty rude. When I asked, "is it a trick?", she scoffed and said a hundred people had done this test today without a problem. So what is wrong with me!? Eventually I asked if I could take my glasses off, wondering if their pressing against the binoculars of the instrument was affecting my view. I still could not see the white numbers!

Under pressure because the doctor did not believe I could not see the numbers, I squinted a little and eventually saw the bottom of what I thought was a 3, so I just said three. This test has bugged me though. I don't understand it and is there something wrong with my eyes?! Help!

[Rasco]

2close,

I'm definitely listening to what you're saying. I told the JAA-guys about the same thing and as I said they're looking at my case at the moment.

I talked too a brittish CAA-man who told me that they could consider accepting my anomaloscope result if they got the issuing authorities opinion as to whether the test is a pass for JAR certificatory purposes.

The issuing authority in my case is it the AME? Or the Swedish JAA? And would this authority really say that my anomaloscope test is a pass "for JAR certificatory purposes" even if they wouldn't accept the results themselves? And what would I say when they ask: "Why do you need an english translated version of your examination confirming that this is a test done for a JAR certificatory purpose?"

Just gotta try, I guess :)

[Valdas]

Hi,

I've got following problem:
Yesterday i went to a doctor to asses my CVD with an anomaloscope. After the test the doctor tried to "classify" me on the basis of the JAR requiremnts of 2002... :( After i pointed out that problem he promissed to check it out, but claimed even he is doing the tests regularly! Today, the doctor contacted german LBA and it came out... he is not allowed to make any assesments any more, since he is not an AME (although he has neccesery equipment) and this is the reason why he has no actual JAR requirements. So, that's the story, and i'm a little bit ****** up.

The question: could any AME tell me whether I passed the test or not in terms of JAR FCL 3?
Diagnosis (in german): Deuteranomalie (Anomal - quotient = 4)

or at least is it worth of doing the same test in AMC, or should I try another type of test?

The problem with this parameter ("Anomal - quotient") is, that in Annex 14 uses a parameter from a measuring device "which is not being used any more", so the doctor and he was not able to compare them.


Thanks a lot in advance

[chriscarr13]

Hi guys,

I am currently in my final year at University and really want to pursue a career afterwards as a commercial airline pilot.

However, looking into it I need some thoughts about whether I'm likely to pass the medical test.

I am a physically fit 21 year old who plays a lot of sport etc.-however, I have had a detached retina in my left eye in the past-the vision is now fine, but I do wear contact lenses to correct my short sightedness, which is -6.00 in my left eye and -5.75 in my right-is there a limit to how short sighted you can be in order to pass the medical?

I'm a bit worried that this may prevent me from passing-any advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

[planecrazy.eu]

I would say its going to be hard to pass, simply because you have had a detached retina in the past, which is 1 of the reasons why those limits are there, as people outside the limits are more likely to have retnal detachment.

-6 is the limit, but you also need to be able to see 20/20 Bino.

Your best bet is to contact the CAA and ask them, they will get you to send in past results and tests and then maybe invite you down.

They are there to help, and i am assured they take no pleasure in turning people down.

[llobregat]

Gatwick. There were 2 rounds

[DuffyDuck]

Hey Alex, just read your question. I think you eyesight should be ok. I've got an esotropia as well (a small one) and I even have very bad stereovision. As long as you have a good binocular vision (looking with both eyes the same time without doublevision) there shouldn't be a problem. I got my medical about 2 months ago in Germany.
Best luck to you.

[llobregat]

If you don't see a difference between green and red for example, you can't pass the test because the colours are randomized everytime e. And the doctor doesn't tell you... here is the first round, here is the second one.

[SoundBarrier]

Hi Peeps,

I've been for an eye exam have been told that my vision is good although I do strain somewhat for reading and close up stuff. I do notice that I get tired when reading and have subsequently got glasses.

My glasses do help with the reading as a drive computers all day and wear my glasses for most of this time. When I remove these glasses to go home my eyes take a while to adjust, things are a little blurry for 10-45 seconds. I *think* this is getting worse (I have had the glasses 3-4 months now).

My question is, are the glasses damaging my eyes or am I going to become totally reliant on them. I have asked my optician who says that this is normal but when it is affecting my vision I want to do my due diligence.

Any thought out there?

Thanks
SB

[woltgreat]

Hi guys,
I am in a very strange situation right now.
I hold an FAA CPL, an FAA Class 1 Medical and my prescription is the following:

Right Eye:
-7.00 dioptres, 0.25 astigmatism, 180° axis

Left Eye:
-6.00 dioptres, 0.50 astigmatism, 160° axis

As you can see my right eye is 1 dioptre out of the limit (-6.00 is the limit) but obviously within the revalidation standards, since there are no myopic limits anymore for the renewal (read on the JAA and CAA website, 100% and more sure).
I would like to try to get my JAA Class 1 in Gatwick, hoping they could make me fit applying what the CAR themselves say:

"ICAO Licence holders
Existing licence holders (i.e., a current valid licence equivalent to the medical certificate for which they are applying e.g. CPL or ATPL for class1, PPL for class 2) from other ICAO states with appropriate demonstrated experience applying for initial issue of a JAA medical certificate will be assessed to the JAA initial standard. Those who fall outside the initial standard, but within the revalidation standard and subject to satisfactory assessment and appropriate limitations, may be considered for a long-term deviation, which will then be transferred to their JAA licence, when issued."

I really don't care about the deviation, I just would like to have opinions about the chances I really have of sorting it out there in Gatwick.

I really, really appreciate any advice guys, provided you know what you're talking about!

Thanks!

[johnobr]

Hi guys,

First time poster here.... It's nice to know I'm not the only CVD out there - can't believe there's over 50 pages on this thread! I must admit I haven't had time to read them all yet. My story is I've been flying for 8 years in Australia, >3000 hrs with plenty of night and multi IFR time and I also hold a CASA Grade 1 multi engine instructor rating. I actually hold an ATPL too, but just can't legally use it.... up until now my Class 1 medical has always been restricted (1) Valid up to and including CPL and (2) Valid only in Australian airspace.

What I'm curious about though is that today my medical renewal arrived in the mail today and the restrictions have changed slightly.... It now states (1) Not valid for ATPL operations and (2) Holder does not fully meet requirements of ICAO Convention Chapter 6 of Annex 1.

Is this basically saying the same thing as what the restrictions have always previously been? The not valid for ATPL ops is self explanatory, but what about the Australian airspace only restriction? Does this mean I can now fly internationally using my CPL previleges? eg. be a SO/FO on international ops? Or maybe that's being a bit hopeful!

The whole CVD thing is extremely frustrating! I've done all the testing possible here in Australia including the signal lights test where I got 5/6 lights correct so this classed as a fail unfortunately. So looks like all my options have been exhausted for now unless anyone has got some other suggestions?

Thanks guys!

[danielm]

Hi all,

I have a problem with color vision and i'm planning to fly to the USA next month and do the FALANT. Does anyone know how much time i need if i have to request a SODA or medical flight?
I'm a bit worried about this because i don't have too much money and time.
I guess it doesn't matter in which state you do the test, i'm planning to fly to Oklahoma where it's LEFTSEAT company that help pilots with medical problems. Does anyone know if i'm in the right way?
Thank you all very much for this thread.

Daniel

[NCO]

Hi all,

Does anyone know how to read/understand the Anomaloscope test results? For example, according to the Anomaloscope test, I have been diagnosed with Green deficiency. Left eye 19 and right eye 24. The test was done by a nurse and the hospital I took the test in is not recognised by The Aviation Authority in my country.
I know I need to take a test from an authorized hospital and I am also going to try and show these results to some of the Dr's in advance. But from people who have taken this exam and are experts at it, what could green deficiency 19 and 24 mean according to JAA rules?? PASS/FAIL

Regards

[NCO]

2close

If the benchmark is 32 and the subject's score must be within 4 units of this benchmark, this means with left eye 19 and right 24 is a fail? is that correct ?
btw, are you certain of this information, is the benchmark 32 ?

[NCO]

Thanks for taking the time

[danielm]

Thanks 2close for your answer.
The problem is that i'm in argentina, south america. Right here nowone has a FALANT.
I think i have to fly to USA or UK and do a colorvision approved test.
Best regards,
Daniel.

[NCO]

Hi all,

I have two questions:

1. Can a person with Dichromat - Deuternanopia become a pilot? This means that the person is moderatley severe and one of the basic mechanism is absent. In this case because it is Deutermanopia, it is the Green pigment which is absent/missing.

2. Can a person be Dichromat - and at the same time be part Deuteranopia and part Deuteronomaly ?

The reason I am asking the second question is because, after I took the Anomaloscope test, my Dr said that I was Dichromat but at the same time Deuteranopia AND Deuternomaly. This does not make any sence because according to my research, for a person to be Deuternomaly, that person needs to be Anomalous Trichromacy(One of the 3 cone pigments are altered. It is inpairment rather than lost) NOT Dichromat.

Thanks for the answers in advance,

Regards