VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)

[AdamLT]

cheers telboy.
i think i'm just gonna bite the bullet and go for it at the CAA. i don't wanna sit round anymore asking all the same questions and getting worried about it.

i'll keep u posted with how i get on

[Need money]

AdamLT,

I was also told about 20 years ago that I was CVD (had a test at my junior school - actually make that 25yrs ago - my mother even remembers being sat next to me and couldn't believe I couldn't see some of them).

This put me off trying for the military side of life when i was old enough.

I have now decided to learn to fly - ideally commercial but if not then just learning to fly (Helicopters) would be my dream - but I had to know - I researched CVD on here and other sites, did all the online tests etc etc

Eventually decided enough was enough and booked in at Gatwick, ultimately only they will tell you, it doesn't matter how many "other" tests you take and pass or fail.

I passed !! - (with one minor exception that i need to a letter from my Doc about - mulit crew until then - but not eyesight related)

So i wish you the best of luck - and go for it.:ok:

PS: If you mean trace plates - the ones without numbers but lines to follow - I didn't do these - pass the numbers and I think (!!) - they skip these.

[teehee]

Hello everyone! Applied to fly contract for ANA & JAL and fear the JCAB Class 1 medical examination. I wear corrective lenses that allow me to see 20/20 :8. Anyone know the uncorrected vision requirement to pass? I've heard the JCAB recently relaxed their strict vision requirements for uncorrected vision. Is this true? Thanks to all who will answer! :ok:

[east_sider]

AdamLT,

In my view you should consider carefully whether to go straight to Gatwick - I'd go to City Uni first. Yes City is £125 (when I went anyway) and Gatwick is cheaper, but the money is insignificant compared to the cost of training! If you are a marginal pass/fail, having experienced the tests at City will give you more chance at Gatwick - you know what to expect.

If you go straight to Gatwick, fail, and get classified CP4 then you've got a long hard battle to get that changed to CP3 by passing another test elsewhere.

Good luck whatever you decide.
cheers
ES

[spindoctor83]

Hi guys,

which of these tests would by JAA-certificated in next time ?
A friend, who was in Gatwick told me that they do the CAD-Test with you there and they ment that the CAD-Test would be JAA-certificated in near future. Now I´m reading here, that the PAPI-Sim would become a new JAA-Test. Does both tests coming up to JAA-Level ?
Who can clear me up about that ?

regards

Peter

[AdamLT]

cheers bealzebub :)

still going to the IOO to know what to expect at the CAA

[TelBoy]

inverted123

The wearing of colour corrective lenses is against UK CAA and FAA rules (I do not have any personal knowledge of other aviation authorities). I assume they are a kind of red filter, as I can tell all the isihara plates fine looking through a red filter. I think that you would be "found out" during the medical and are likeley to suffer quite serious consequenses as a result.

You are 100% right when you say to people don't give up - nobody should and I hope the stupid and outdated rules in JAA land will follow the more enlighted Australian rules thanks to Dr Pape.

The link you gave for the lenses does not work as yet, but do you really need them when flying? I've never come accross a load of coloured dots with a number hidden in them in the sky and can tell all the aviation colours with my own eyesight (I wish the CAA would see it that way - the FAA do:))

Always great to see another pilot that has beaten CVD - happy landings mate.

[Shunter]

I've tried them aswell. Can you read the splatterbomb plates? Yes. Does anything else look any different? Not really.

[ernie1987]

Hello everyone, does anyone have an idea of the vision requirements to work as a pilot at EVA air? I know here in the U.S all you have to have is a corrected vision to 20/20. I don't know much about Asian airlines and their medical policies. Thanks

[Nokio]

May I ask some advice please?
Will I be able to get a CAA Class 1 with Amblyopia?
Anyone with amblyopia hold a CAA Class 1?
Thanks.

[Mach44]

They state the astigmatism limits is 2.00.

My eyes are +2.50 in the right and +2.75 in the left, whats the chances of still passing the medical? (I appreciate only the CAA Doc. can give an answer, but in general experiences)

I hear they relax it and pass people on occasions providing they would meat the renewal standards, which I appear to be ok on:

the astigmatism (distortion) and anisometropia (difference between the eyes) initial limits are 2 dioptres, but there are no limits for revalidation/renewal.

So...

[gijoe]

Dr Smurf,
There is a whole, enormous, big, gigantic thread on this entitled COLOUR VISION. It is worth your time studying this thread because it contains much information from those that are in the same boat as you.

Here it is:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229604

G

[niknak]

Daniel,

when it comes to CAA medical standards, despite what you may read here, there are no easy answers or solutions.

The CAA have a wide range of tests to diagnose any particular problem and I can assure you from personal experience that they will push the boat out to help you.
But ultimately, if you don't meet the required standard and nothing can be done, which unfortunately is sometimes the case, then that's it.

Good luck anyway.

[norton2005]

Hey guys, was wondering if someone could help me. I'm currently a PPL with a class 2 and would love to bump it up to a class 1 and go professional but my eyesight is -7. This obviously makes me 1 dioptre out of the requirment. so basically my question is, Is there any way to get around this and gain a class 1? Is there any one out there with a similar story who can tell me what they did?

[SAS-A321]

Norton2005: I have -7.00, just like you and I am currently waiting for answer from the UK CAA Aero Medical, if I can get an dispensation. I wrote and asked them if it was possible on a mail. They requested my last eye perscription and I sent it by snail mail to them in the beginning of September.

I dicussed this with my optician and he told me that the differens from having -6.00 and me having -7.00 is that without glasses the difference is only 1 cm when you have to see a text clearly.

Ex. with -6.00 you would have the text 20cm from your eye and with -7.00 you will need to have it 19cm from your eyes to read the text clearly. :sad:

So I really hope for a positive answer. Does anyone know how long it will take to get an answer from them?

[norton2005]

When you say if you could get a dispensation, what does this mean? And if the CAA were to accept this, would they be offering you a full class 1 or would they be offering you a class 1 with some kind of a restriction?

[FltSgt88]

Hi guys, I know there have been loads of threads regarding eyesight but I was just wondering how many of you have had the Bates Method work for you. Also, how far have got as a result? I've always wanted to be a RAF pilot, but currently my eyesight doesnt allow it. Flying will be part of my life somehow or another and being able to get my Class 1 would mean i could take it as far as i wanted really.

Some feedback and stories from those of you who swear by it would be interesting..thnx

Also, out of interest, how it the JAR Class 1&2 eye test carried out. Are they done with machines which can map your cornea or are they good old fashioned eye charts and coloured circles.

Much Thanks... :)

[David Horn]

Eye chart and coloured circles, but you read them off a computer screen at the end of a tunnel. I don't know if it was the contrast or the darkened room, but I found it a lot harder to read the letters at Gatwick than I did in my local opticians. Still passed, though. :)

[Re-Heat]

You do realise that you can get a Class 1 with glasses don't you? Your post seems to suggest that you think you need perfect eyesight...you don't.

[FltSgt88]

Hi, thanks for your replies. Yeah i realise that you dont need perfect eyesight as long as it is correctable with glasses. Although there are some min requirements. Astigmatism is my main problem. I have only 0.25D long sight in my left eye and 0.25D short sight in my right. But according to the corneal mapping i have 3.5D astigmatism is both...but a standard eye test tells me im about 2.75D.

[Mach44]

FltSgt88: If what I understand is correct, you astigmatism is 3.5/2.75.
I was in the same situation as you, my eyes astigmatism are 2.50 in one and 2.75 in the other.


I phoned the CAA on Wednesday to push my case but it was a no go for me and an end to obtaining a class 1 med and a dream of flying professionally :(.

They treat each person on an individual basis though. I believe it all depends on your last numerous eye tests,if they are stable enough, if not then whats the change and is it suitable, all those kind of factors.

Let me know how you get on though, would be interested in hearing your end result. (Remember, an initial med fail isn't the end. Just call or visit and discuss it further and push your case. Good luck.)

[TelBoy]

Well said Matt. Another soldier that won't give up - good for you.

Pilots are now considerd for immigration to Oz for what I could (briefley) make of the rules. Also I have seen that their tower signal test is only done at 300 and 500 metres (I will stand to be corrected of course) which would allow you to go to ATP and no weight restiction and international flying. The FAA tower signal test which I did and passed was done at 1000 and 1500 yards, so the Australian one "should" be easier. Australia is a fantastic place but my family etc are in the UK. It is about time the Uk (and Europe) got off their high horses, saw sense and followed the Australian example. Lets face it the medical is only the first step to CPL/ATP you will be assesed many times through training and again after, so if you can "cut the ice" you should be allowed to fly.

Good luck with your PPL mate and keep flying.

[Balticsea]

I've been reading this thread with great interest and finally decided to post my own worries:
I had a lasik surgery done some 18 months ago and everything's been amazing, can't believe I can actually see now, as before I had -10 glasses! That said, I know it says on JAR-OPS that they can only "consider" acceptance if the correction before surgery was -6 the most with class1 or -8 the most with class2 :* I don't know what to do, should I try to hide it? Wouldn't they notice something peculiar as there's been such a great change? Or should I be honest and try to "push" my case (what ever that means)? :confused:
All advice and opinions welcome, thank you!

[dodofantasy]

Does the Rebuild Your Vision program actually work? If they do not work,like they got a lawsuit,i need proff that they got sued,or sites that say they tried the program but no good,and also my eyes are myopia about -8.0 each,if you tried the program,and it worked for you,do you think it will work for me? Please answer soon. and thanks =)

[flyingcat]

well i'm facing the same problem as you mate..but i was advice to do the latern test if u not fail the latern test they can make an acception on ur class 1 medical..and u are allow to fly and night ifr and all...thats far as i know...but if u do have any other answer to our problem plsss do let me know...cheers mate

[miket_68]

HI.
I will be attending CAA Gatwick tomorrow morning for a EOT.
I have asked for this test as they(CAA) sent me a letter earlier this year saying they would not issue a Class 1 Licence due to my preoperative (Lasik) prescription is out of their normal scope.
Anyone tell me what I am in for during this test, the letter states 45 minutes.
Also, if I am successful in the eye test and have to book the medical at a later date would I have to sit the entire set of tests (including eye test). for an additional £53, I know in the grand scheme of things £53 isnt much but it will be money for old rope as far as the CAA are concerned, but then I hear thats there internal motto ;-)
On a less pertinant note, what shoudl I wear ? Correct impressions etc.
Thanks in advance.
MikeT

[7120]

If they get a bit sniffy - which I doubt - might be worth showing them this:
: Aviat Space Environ Med. 2007 Jun;78(6):547-53.
Visual and flight performance recovery after PRK or LASIK in helicopter pilots.
Van de Pol C, Greig JL, Estrada A, Bissette GM, Bower KS.
U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory, Fort Rucker, AL 36362, USA.
INTRODUCTION: Refractive surgery, specifically photorefractive keratectomy (PRK) and laser in situ keratomileusis (LASIK), is becoming more accepted in the military environment. Determination of the impact on visual performance in the more demanding aviation environment was the impetus for this study. METHODS: A prospective evaluation of 20 Black Hawk pilots pre-surgically and at 1 wk, 1 mo, and 6 mo postsurgery was conducted to assess both PRK and LASIK visual and flight performance outcomes on the return of aviators to duty. RESULTS: Of 20 pilots, 19 returned to flight status at 1 mo after surgery; 1 PRK subject was delayed due to corneal haze and subjective visual symptoms. Improvements were seen under simulator night and night vision goggle flight after LASIK; no significant changes in flight performance were measured in the aircraft. Results indicated a significantly faster recovery of all visual performance outcomes 1 wk after LASIK vs. PRK, with no difference between procedures at 1 and 6 mo. Low contrast acuity and contrast sensitivity only weakly correlated to flight performance in the early post-operative period. DISCUSSION: Overall flight performance assessed in this study after PRK and LASIK was stable or improved from baseline, indicating a resilience of performance despite measured decrements in visual performance, especially in PRK. More visually demanding flight tasks may be impacted by subtle changes in visual performance. Contrast tests are more sensitive to the effects of refractive surgical intervention and may prove to be a better indicator of visual recovery for return to flight status.

[miket_68]

Just got back from Gatwick.

I have passed my Extended Eyesight test (not the correct name but I cant remember it).

My preoperative refraction was -6.5 but after Lasik it is now .25.

After taking the test and being told I had passed I was over the moon.

They are rethinking the whole LASIK thing (internally if not out in the open). So if you have had it then get down there for an exam.

As long as each eye is at least 6/9 now and 20/20 together then you have a shot.

Just got to go back for the rest of the test as they were so busy they couldnt fit me in.

Many thanks for all the helpful answers.

Mike

[Balticsea]

thank you so much for sharing the info Mike! :D my heart just bounced when reading your post! i think i'll book one of those tests and hope for the best! :) was the required vision with or without correction?

[Mach44]

Whats the chances of the CAA relaxing the astigmatism requirements in the next.... say 5 years?

initial limit: 2.00
renewal: no limit/requirement!


Anyone know/have an opinion/like to offer input.


Mach44
(question was very much speculation, I'm 2.75 in astigmatism so kind of hoping they will relax them sometime before I get to old... Although not being able to get the class 1 med right now I'm still saving funds towards training, well for now at least, I guess if when I get to old and I still cant get the med then nothing is lost and I'll have some nice savings)

[NurseToPilot]

I read that the Renewal was 3.00 dioptres... I failed my class 1 based on 3.75 dioptres Astigmatism...

I am considering LASIK to have this corrected as they have not said they would not consider me once I can prove stability.. My view is that if I dont get it done at all I'll never get my class 1.... wheras i'll have given my self a fighting chance of gaining my class 1 after having it done... If they still say no ill be gutted BUT at least no more glasses ever! (appart for presbyobia which we all get in later life!)

[Mach44]

Well i'm not 100% sure, but:

Initial:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED-JARClass1InitialVisStds%5B2189%5D.pdf

Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres.


and then the 'Revalidation and Renewal of JAR Medical Certificates' page on the CAA website shows:
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=531

JAR Class 1

The initial refractive error (correction) limit is +5/-6 dioptres. There is no myopic limit for revalidation/renewal. The astigmatism (distortion) and anisometropia (difference between the eyes) initial limits are 2 dioptres, but there are no limits for revalidation/renewal.
NOTE: contact lenses must be worn if the anisometropia exceeds 3 dioptres.


So.... :confused:

[NurseToPilot]

That answers my question then!

I guess (and hope and pray) that when I have my laser surgery done that I will be 2.00 diopters or below ... I've known from reading hundreds of forums / articles on line that people with higher dioptre astigmatism than myself have acheived a minimal or zero astigmatism post surgery so i am very hopeful!

[Mach44]

Well good luck with it :ok:, and heres hoping they will relax the limited so I can be as lucky in the future :\.

Mach44

[Tamesy1]

I have 2.5D astigmatism in my right eye, yet i passed the Class 1 medical in March. I guess I just got lucky, however it did take a lot of letter correspondance between the CAA and I. Originally, they wouldn't let me take the medical because I submitted a prescription which was outside of the initial limit (2.00) and it was after December 2006 so the 'deviation route' was closed. Following this initial denial, I saw many different opticians, and had eyetest after eyetest, until one (a highstreet chain that shall remain nameless) reported that i had only 1.75D in that eye! I then sent this report off to gatwick, and said that the original optician had got it wrong. It seemed i created enough doubt about my eyesight to require their optician to solve it once and for all.

My class 1 exam was an extremely nerve-racking event. I had to wait for about an hour in the waiting room as i was having an 'eyesight first' exam- they do this for marginal candidates to save the expense of the rest of the medical should they fail. After the very thorough test, the optician and I sat down in a side-room, i was convinced i'd failed, he said 'I measured your Astigmatism, it was much closer to your original prescription, 2.5 Dioptres'...Oh noooo i thought...that's it... the dream's over, but he continued to say..'im passing you fit class one'
I have no idea why he decided to pass me, maybe because i was such a pain writing to him all the time! or he was just in a good mood that day

Moral of the story...don't give up, do whatever it takes to pass. The CAA are your friend and they do want you to pass.

[NurseToPilot]

I did EYESIGHT first as well and failed yet was advised to carry on with the medical and spend the 302 quid!! - reasoning behind it.... well if i later got my eyes "fixed" he said and came back for class 1 then maybe id find something else wrong like a dicky ticker - so it made sense to me to eliminate everythign else and i think that if i re apply for class 1 within 1 year of last one i will only have to go through the EYE ONLY part again!!

[Arturo Lan]

Hello all,

I have a question...I don`t know if it`s been asked.

Say I have a pilot license from another country outside Europe, like a FAA or in my case also a Mexican license. And I have in both cases a class 1 medical.

If I decide to go live and work in Europe in the future I would have to get a JAA (or CAA) Class 1. But say I have a bit more than -6.00 (which is the initial limit). Could they consider giving me a class 1 based on my flight experience in these other countries if I have flown commercially for airlines, having flown with that same prescription (like doing a special assesment)? Or would it be a direct NO if I do my initial?

If it`s a NO, it doesn`t make much sense to me, because of their renewal regulation (no limits).

Thanks for the help :)
Best,
Arturo

[SAS-A321]

I have a FAR Class 1 medical and I asked the UK CAA if I would be threated as a renewal if I applied for a UK Class 1 medical and the said no. :=

I don't have any licenses yet, which I did not tell them, so I think it is the same for all.

[Strobe lights]

Thrustidle74.. Just for curiosity, why have you gone over retesting your colour vision? As per JAA it only goes on initial, I think..:confused:
Why your employer asked you to retake the exam??

I am asking because something similar might hapen to me..
Thanks..

[audimatt]

Hi, just a quick reply to shunter.

Yes I failed on the last set of RED/GREEN lights, but the green didnt look as green as the previous one, so i thought it was white, so i failed on the last set, by saying white, not green! SOOOOOO :mad: annoyed!

Hope Zurich goes well, I look forward to your reply, maybe if you pass you can fly at night at long last.

I just dont know what to do with my ppl now, any ideas..... ???? i just want to be up there flying......

Good luck guys.

Matt

[thrustidle74]

Strobe lights,

Sorry to confuse you,I should have been more specific,I found a job in middle east that time and it was their CAA who asked for the retest.
As long as you stay put in Europe you are fine,don't worry.

Cheers

[bypilot]

Hello everybody.I have problem on my eye.I went to an eye doctor for a standart eye check.And he showed me Ishara.I did Ishara and I fail.He showed me 6 or 7 plates.(not first or second pages.they are easier)And I didnt see numbers.And doctor said me.You are a colour blind.(He didnt execute any other test for me because it was a standart check.Not for pilot training)And I said.I want to be a pilot since my 4 years.He said:You cant be a pilot but you can only take PPL.But I want to be an airline pilot.My father is an airline pilot and I traveled in cockpit 6 times at night and day time.I looked PAPI-VASI and other light in cockpit and outside.I saw everything.There wasnt a problem.
Then I found this site.My country is a member of JAA.And accorting to JAA if fail Ishara you can take other test.I said this to doctor.But he said.You failed a lot of pages.Your wrongs are crowded.So they will not give you other test.
Now I want to learn this.May I take the other test for colour.How many mistakes do they accept for give the other test?And really is there any mistake restriction for take an other test?I m waiting for your help.And it is very important for me.I looked all pages.And see your answers.And can you explain me other alternative test shortly.Thank you...

[bypilot]

oh mate thank you very much.I will try.I m sure.In fact I read something about this subject.But I didint find the correct answer for me.And I did 5-6 mistake:):)I think I should light gun test.I m searching.Thank you again.And I m waiting for answers ıf other people want to reply.

[thrustidle74]

Hi guys,

As I said earlier I got my appointment from City Uni,London for last week.I was on a layover,the total cost was 75 pounds.
Unfortunately they cancelled the appointment at a very short notice,then they send me another msg saying that if I can make it in 2 hours they would be able to perform the assessment...but I've already had a couple of beers by then and my crew hotel is in Heathrow.So I couldn't make it.
I'll try next time and keep you posted.

Cheers

TI74

[thrustidle74]

katsogr,

Sorry to confuse you...At the time KLM Medical Clinic was the closest location to where I was based,that's why I went there.
The CAA asked for it was in Middle East...

Cheers

TI74

[bypilot]

Okay guys.Thank you for your helps.It is very important for me.But this news is not good for me.I dont know medical standats of TURKEY for colour blindness test.I m going to search it.Thank you again.And lastly I m waiting for other answers if a person who has information about this subject.Thank you again...

[SAS-A321]

Just a small information to some of the people who wrote to me and asked about the result from the UK CAA.

I am still waiting for an answer. I have sent a kind reminder, which they responded to in a strange way, but it has now been 1½ months since I sent the request for dispensation for my vision. Next week I will give them a call, as I find it strange that it takes so long time to get an answer. :confused:

[Strobe lights]

Hi 320/321..

What kind of medical report is that?

Regards,
SL

[audimatt]

Hi

"guys y are u making a big deal out of it?"

I just wanted to express my frustration :mad: with this comment, a BIG DEAL?

Yes it is a big deal to everyone who is part of this forum, and many more people who im sure just keep an eye on it and dont actually write anything!

And its a big deal because when flying, I can see all the lights, and when driving or walking, I can see any light, But in a stressfull test at Gatwick I cant!

Rant over

Matt

(sorry)

[windforce]

Shunter, well done!!! congratulation on your CP3 achievement :D

stay on touch with this thread, don't forget about us now :E

:ok:

wf

[stevieb1]

Congratulations, so there may be hope for some of us yet!

Can you post some details of the test itself, conditions etc? A little background info is always useful, and I'll be going over there myself soon.

Well done again

[Captain Smithy]

Hi folks,

Have just noticed this thread (I don't look in this forum as often as perhaps I should).

A quick visit to the opticians yesterday to the opticians confirmed my fears that my dream may have been killed off due to the old uncorrected visual acuity... whilst I am within the refractive error limits (-3D in one eye, -4D in another), have atigmatism (again within the limits, 1.25D for both eyes), eyes in "exceptional health" (optician's words) and have excellent corrected visual acuity of 6/5, my uncorrected visual acuity is very poor (optician quoted it as <6/20!) and this looks like a Class 1, possibly even a Class 2, may be scuppered.

Have sent an E-mail to the friendly folks at the CAA Med dept., will wait and see what they say with regards to the possibility of a restricted medical or not. However I fear that my ambitions of becoming an instructor may have been well and truly torpedoed!

Whatever the case, at least I can still fly, there's still the NPPL as a fall-back. Not all is lost.

Smithy wheres me bloody contact lenses then *squints at screen*

[wbryce]

Hello,
I can't find the document which lists the visual limits for the C1 renewals. I can only find the document for the initial class one standards, are these the same for renewals? Or if anyone can list them it would be great! been a few yrs since I renewed my class one and I fear my sight could be near or beyond the limits.

p.s. found this little sniplet on cash and agros website, are these the limits? the word initial throws me off the scent a little bit!

The initial refractive error (correction) limit is +5/-6 dioptres. There is no myopic limit for revalidation/renewal. The astigmatism (distortion) and anisometropia (difference between the eyes) initial limits are 2 dioptres, but there are no limits for revalidation/renewal.

NOTE: contact lenses must be worn if the anisometropia exceeds 3 dioptres.

Thanks

[Mohit_C]

On the renewal I heard that the eyesight limits go up to -8.

[norton2005]

The renewal standard nowadays is unlimited for short sight.

[Tamesy1]

"The initial refractive error (correction) limit is +5/-6 dioptres. There is no myopic limit for revalidation/renewal. The astigmatism (distortion) and anisometropia (difference between the eyes) initial limits are 2 dioptres, but there are no limits for revalidation/renewal."

From here: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=531

[Shunter]

Just a final note on the subject for anyone who might find themselves in the same situation as me. Having read of previous experiences in the 'colour vision part 1' thread, I was a little concerned as to the reaction of the CAA to being sent some results from outside the UK etc etc.. turns out my worries were utterly unfounded; unrestricted license and medical turned around without issue!

That said, I won't be simply swanning off into the CP3 sunset. The system stinks, has cost me a lot of time, money and effort in 'beating' it, and things are well overdue for change.

[davidgq]

my eyes are at about -10D each. well beyond the JAA limits. most of what ive read regarding refractive surgery refers to LASIK and how it isnt an accepted form of correction for anything over 5D. Does this limit go for all forms of refractive surgery? Ive been looking into getting intraocular lenses and was wondering if they would allow me to gain a Class 1

[Cx292]

Hi to all,

I have a very simple question about vision medical requirements.
I hold a class I med JAR and have an uncorrected -4.75 and -3.75 and I'm able to see 6/6 (10/10) with glasses or contact lenses.

Now I'm worried about one day my eyesight could be worst ...

How is the situation in UK?

Here in Switzerland if I have a refractive surgery I will loose my med class I temporary until a new medical examination.

I heard about this is not true in UK.

Is it true?

Thank you very much
:eek:

[Robbo0885]

Hi all. Alot of talk on this thread has been for -ve prescriptions, short sightedness, myopia. I am hyperopic, +4.50, and am wondering about class 1 renewal. Got initial in Nov last year, just to make sure I wasnt wasting my time with modular training. Im currently doing PPL, and was told at the time of initial to get a check in a year (i.e. around now) out of interest to see if my eyesight was still changing. (been going up slowly over last 8 years).

All I can find on CAA about renewal standards is what has been qouted in this thread a few times, "for myopia there is no revalidation/renewal limit" but I am wondering if that means there is therefore a limit for hyperopia? I can't find any information on it at all on CAA, or anywhere else. I was under the impression any limit would be on CAA medicals website with inital stuff.

I know I can call CAA Gatwick and ask on Monday, so thanks for that suggestion, but I have an eye test booked on Sunday and only came online to get a copy of renewal standards so I know the score on Sunday.

Any help on this one would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks All.

[Kengineer-130]

Hi Guys,
I need a bit of help please! Basically my uncorrecred eyesight is awful, my prescription is -11 diopters, and I am largely Monocular through my right eye :ugh:. Now I have a JAA PPL, and a CAA class 2 medical with an exemption as I have proved I am safe to fly using my normal glasses and had special examinations , but they will not even consider a class 1 medical :(....
I was just wondering, If I wanted to be a flight instructor in the USA, what medical eye standard would I need to meet? as I understand CPL over there is less stringent than ATPL? If anyone has any info please can you let me know? :ok:

[world]

Kengineer,
In USA, you could pass both CPL and ATPL. As long as you have 20/20 corrected. You can be blind without your glasses, it doesn't matter. Same for Australia, Pakistan and some other countries.

[Kengineer-130]

I don't think I have 20/20 corrected, as I am largly right eye dominant :(.... if it's not 20/20 are there any exemptions I could use? I have heard stories about USA pilots being blind in one eye and being allowed to fly?

[JUZ777]

Neilo.....TelBoy is dead on..Up till june last year i was restricted up to and including CPL in Australian airspace only. I done the signal gun light test and have had the restriction removed, I have both a NVFR and ME C IR of which i had before having the restriction removed ..and if your interested its the same test for a FAA class 1 as well. PM me for any other info.... Cheers. JUZ:ok:

[Farrell]

You do not have to have 20/20 corrected.

It depends on what your AME thinks.

I have an unrestricted FAA Class 1 but my right eye is uncorrectable to 20.

I requested a SODA (statement of demonstrated ability) however, when my medical was issued, I was told that I did not require one.

All I need now is for a JAA state to give me a class 1 for Europe when I have about 500 hours ME - thereby showing that I can fly safely.

[Witza]

Hey guys and girls

I'm just another one to join the group as i was on my way to (try) getting a C1, and was found color unsafe...that so :mad: annoying and frustrating, our dreams destroyed because of something the Doctors themselves are not really in full understanding. I say that they are not, because from what i understand there can be many little deviations from the "real" perceptions of colors, and i admit it, i mix the colors (light green and light yellow) when they're 4/5Meters (13/14ft aprox.) away, and have the diameter used on those machines. I do not make any mistakes if the colors are in the normal wave length and i do not change one color with another(I've checked this quite a few times in different conditions with the help of my (non color defective) girlfriend and friends.

I've done the exams and the Center for Aeronautical Medicine at the Air force Hospital in Lisbon, Portugal and they were quite friendly i must say, but i still feel that I'm being put aside for a reason that is not that fair. I use contacts to correct my vision, and i was able to use those (as i am inside the regulations restrictions) but i hear that one cannot use the color correcting lenses (colormax or stuff like that), isn't that just something idiot ?? wtf, i can sit back on a pilots seat and not be able to read the instruments(without the corrective lenses), but if i cant tell the difference between mild green and mild yellow i cant have a C1?

As i stated earlier, i don't know how much they really understand or better yet, what they "think" we see, the doctor there wouldn't explain to me what my problem was, what colors i mixed (was she afraid i'd go somewhere else and cheat the system?) that's just idiot, they would just have to show the lights in a different order and i would not be able to tell the difference (I think...) anyway, I was unsafe to fly a plane, I would surely be the first one to say that I would not want to be in control... If i wanted to kill myself i can really think of cheaper and easier ways to do it...

It's really a shame that we cant just have a practical test like in the states, where at the very least we would understand why we are sooo unsafe. I'd like to do a test where they would stage a dangerous situation where my safety would depend on distinguishing between those two shades of green and yellow and se how i would do. And then, i would be satisfied after earing that " well, you see, this situation happens some times, and you would have been :mad: because of your color unsafeness's, so thank us for being good to you and not letting you have the C1. After that i would send them a fruit basket and we could all be friends.

oh well, i will not give up, i think i'll try a different color test as soon as i can, but they surely screwed up my plans for the future, and i know that as most of you, if this wasn't such a unfair thing we would be alright with it and just move on. The general idea is, as someone already said, that ppl like us change colors, or just cant see them...i had to explain and prove to my friends that i can tell the colors just as well as they can, i just cant tell the difference between mild green and mild yellow if they are the size of the guy who decided this test's brain and it's flashed at me from 4 meters...
I will continue to try and pass the C1, and at the same time continue my life as a Software Engineer....maybe i'll just make some software that receives the output of all those light tests and programs the colors to flash at a different wave leght in order for us to "see" it properly. If they rely their lives on all those computerized systems the new jets and air control units have, they must accept something like this... :}

Sorry for the long rant, i think i could just steal all the JAA regulations and burn them, so that they would have to re-write them :) hehehehe anyone up for a bbq? ;)
Keep up the hope
Rui (I see the colors, really...) Daniel

[Kengineer-130]

Will JAA states give you a class 1 off the back of an FAA Medical/ CPL/ATPL licence?

[Farrell]

No. They can refuse it.
However, the logic behind it is very questionable.
Example:
An American Airlines 767 captain with 10,000 flying hours on type, with an FAA Class One is allowed to fly his plane to Heathrow, despite his eyesight being outside of JAA initial AND renewal requirements.
He can continue to do this as long as he is flying an N-reg 767.
However, if overnight, the aircraft's reg was changed to a G-reg.
He would not be able to fly the aircraft back to the US.


Does that make sense??

[norton2005]

It's absolutly ludacris. The JAA really need to shape up on these damn vision requirments. If you can see 20/20 no one should give a damn what your prescription is.

[world]

Keninger, if you are one eye blind, then the other has to be 20/30 corrected, and you will fly perfectly.

norton, execly. European rules are dumb. In many Eastern European countries, you couldn't get a license if you are not 20/20 UNcorrected. One man were 20/40 uncorrected, 20/20 corrected, but they didn't allow him to fly...

Now the rules are changin, even for military and space.

[Jabout]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but do Air Traffic Controllers have to pass color vision tests?

[2close]

In a word, Yes!

[Jabout]

http://www.physorg.com/news93792566.html

I reckon, we're probably the last generation to suffer from color blindness

[SAS-A321]

I just got a NO-GO from the UK-CAA on my -7,00 eyes. :{(Prescription).
I explained them in a mail that my optician actually wanted me to wear
-6,75, but they are not produced and -6,50 i too weak for me. I think I will try again next year, as I think I am very close to the go/no-go limit. :}

Does anyone know what they set as the measuring distance?

The surface of the eye - contact lenses - or the glasses distance, because you add 1 dioptre when using glasses, and IMHO it is not fair to add 1 dioptre, just because of the equipment. :ugh:

[Shunter]

Just like Tomorrow's World said our cars would all fly by now :}

The thing is that it shouldn't be us who has to change. The standard of colour vision required by JAA is utterly unrepresentative of that required in order for a professional pilot to safely do his job. According to both UK and EU law, the current regulations are at best discriminatory and at worst downright illegal. Some of us have already taken legal advice on the subject, the general response being prolonged open-mouths or, "WHAT?!".

There are 2 possible routes out of the currently untenable situation:

1. The regulators seeing sense
2. Litigation

Whilst I would like to think that the former will prevail I suspect the latter will be inevitable.

[Kengineer-130]

I personally don't see how they can say it's safe for me to fly on the JAA class 2 medical, as a PPL, where arguably I would spend 100% of my time VFR, on far far less equiptment than in a big jet with co-pilot and banks of nav aids and atc/tcas/radar and IFR, when suddenly my eyes ARE NOT good enough :bored:.... I don't care if you have the eyesight of superman, if you hit another aircraft it's going to hurt whatever medical you have .....:ugh:

Bit of an odd question, but could this be classed as discrimination?? As how can they say people are unfit to fly on a CAA licence due to eyesight, yet there are hundreds of american / FAA pilots who fly in the CAA states with far "worse" prescriptions than the CAA allow :ugh:..... If it is proven that your corrected vision is no factor to flight safty, and bearing in mind you have to by law carry a spare pair of spectacles anyway, how can they refuse you a medical? :ugh::mad:....shocking :*

[SAS-A321]

The vision has nothing to do with safety as long as it is corrected!
Kengineer-130: I have for many years said that JAR is discriminating people with having a vision limit! First it was +/- 3, then +/- 5 now +/- 6 and no renewal limit... what makes +/-6 better now than five years ago!? Discrimination I say! :mad:
With the removal of the renewal limit I guess the initial limit is also on its way out... so what is taking them so long? :* Maybe they should start focusing on other areas, as peoples health, as a poor health increases the effect of fatigue. Much worse than -8 on both eyes.
For once the Americans are right and allowing people to fly as long as the vision is corrected.
Just so people can understand my frustation, I have been fighting to become a pilot for about 10 years and I am not quitting this close to my goal! :ok:

[Kengineer-130]

SAS, it is my dream too :ok:, I don't see ('scuse the pun :}) how in this day and age, with all the discrimination laws floating round that they can hold out for much longer...... The annoying thing is that it is NOT a safty issue, it has been proven by thousands of people who can safly fly in the same skys as everyone else.

Can you do all the training for CPL and be awarded the licence, but not hold the medical?

[LastMinute]

You can't be issued a CPL without a Class 1 medical.

You can't fly solo during training without a Class 2 medical.

You can't enrol at any professional flight school without a Class 1 medical.
(Why? Because you'd spoil their stats when you failed to earn a licence at the end of it...)

This post points out some of the reasons why there are limits.

[SAS-A321]

To give my honest opinion, what JAA state as the reason for the limit is BS, as it has absolutely no effect on people wearing contact lenses. I have in my years of finding a reason for the limit also heard a lot of crap, even from JAAs doctors and it is not what is stated in the quoute in LastMinute's link.

"There is no myopia limit for revalidation/renewal."

Let me make an example... a person at the age of 20 get a Class 1 with -6 and when he turns 25 it has increased to -8... but he is still allowed to fly...?
Then why is a new guy with -8 not allowed? They have the exactly same vision, but just because you are a new guy you are not allowed to fly a commercial airliner.
...and no! Your vision don't get better because of more experience! :=

[mfa2000]

Can you wear glasses and still be a pilot?!!

[effortless]

Yes of course. - 5 diopters for a ppl uk.

[Shunter]

If you want chapter and verse, I suggest you read this (starting on page 49):

http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/606984.pdf

[LastMinute]

Perhaps not, given that your eyesight wasn't good enough to spot this thread. :8

[march1981]

Thanks there Shunter,

I'll be following this through, see how it fairs. After months of disappoinment and then reading your thread it brought hope to me, I thought I'd never get that Class 1, now at least there seems to be another chance.

I'll let you know how things go.

Cheers

James.

[Davidbriggs30]

Dear All

Yesterday I went to Gatwick to have my class 1 done, however there was a question on my eyesight because I have an astigmatism in both eyes, one of 2D and one of 3D. So in the medical they said to have my eyes tested first. After waiting for around three hours, they told me they could not continue my medical any further due to their machine making me 3.5 in the in one eye. I have my PPL with flight time of 55 hrs, with hopes of starting ground school in January. I was thinking about having LASIK surgery which they said at the medical might be a possibility but did not say as I suspected that I would be gaurenteed at medical if the procedure was successful. Any advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated.

Dave Briggs

[IRISHPILOT]

Hello Dave,

Have you been officially denied your medical? If not, get it somewhere else. You then swap it for the UK medical.
This is done pretty often, cheap and quick, as travel + medical is usually much cheaper than a Gatwick medical. All info on Pprune.

If you have been denied, you may need to do your licence elsewhere, which is not really a big deal (many countries do it all in English).

good luck! IP

[Davidbriggs30]

Would that be another JAA state? If so can you recommend any good ones to go to?

Also I have heard of people who have had their medicals denied in the UK then go abroad to get a medical then come back yet to find that they denied it?

[IRISHPILOT]

Well, as I said, depends on if you were denied the medical or if they simply broke off the process.

If you have not been denied it, you do it in another JAA state (eg. Ireland, Czech Republic, Serbia, Germany), then swap it (I believe it is a 20 pound fee). There will be not further investigation from the UK side, as you have fulfilled the JAR requirements in another JAA state.

If you have been denied the UK medical, you will have to fulfill the UK requirements before getting the UK JAA medical.

As I said, you can always do the licence abroad (in Germany / Croatia for example you can use Bristol ground school, Ireland, Malta and the Czech Republic do it all in English too...).

[Davidbriggs30]

Thanks for your help

[vlieger]

Aspiring commercial pilot here. I am about to book my medical class 1 in Gatwick, but as I am on Travatan eye drops to keep my eye pressures low (from about 30 I got them down to 18), I was told that I need to send my whole medical file from Moorefield's Eye Hospital to the CAA. I'm a bit freaked out by this as I know that although there hasn't been any significant damage to my optic nerves (my field tests are fine), it does say that I have ocular hypertension in the right eye (no problemo) but also "early glaucoma" in the left eye (doctor said there was very minor damage but that it doesn't affect my vision at all). That may easily make them very suspicious and I can see how I can be denied a pass just on the basis of that file, which was compiled in Moorefield, whose eye tests are much more rigorous, I understand.

Any advice on this? I'm still trying to get hold of my file in the first place, hopefully that won't take ages...

[7120]

Whether you have "early glaucoma" or not is immaterial. The issue is: do you meet the visual requiremnts? If your visual fields are normal then there is no problem. Do have a look at your files before you trot off to the CAA.
If you have a subtle but minor defect on the field test carried out at Moorfields you could argue that their testing technique is more rigorous and sensitive than the CAA tests and you are therefore disadvantaged.
If this situation arises you should ask to have the CAA visual field test. Do ensure that they have a clear definition of what is a normal visual field and the technique used in testing.
If their standard involves someone stading in front of you and asking when you see his finger wiggling at the edge of your vision - this is known as confrontation testing - then don't worry; you'll pass easily.
Good luck

[sam.lk7]

hi everyone,
:)
I recently have turned 18 and am ready to start applying to airlines ( i am in western australia), i have been proven to have a mild colour vision deficiency, does anyone know if this will affect my chances of gaining cabin crew employment with QF or DJ (virgin blue) or any other airline for that matter? Any help would be great...:confused::confused:

guys i am really scared.:uhoh:

sam

[2close]

Sam,

Look up Doctor Arthur Pape on the internet and you will find out why (a) Australia is far more liberal towards CVD than any other country and (b) that, you can actually fly as an airline pilot in Australia by day and night even with CVD.

Good luck.

2close

[2close]

Troops,

I have to be the bringer of more bad news.

There are those of you that think the FAA route may be an option to corporate work in the EU.

Well, the bad news is that the door is to be shut firmly closed by the new powers that be.

EASA Medical regs come into force in Spetember 2009 and they will prevent anyone from flying a foreign registered aircraft that is based in the EU on anything but an EASA medical certificate. So, even if you hold a FAA CPL/IR ATPL or whatever you will still require an EASA medical.

Further, it seems that EASA Flight Crew Licensing regulations, when they eventually come into force, will go one stage further and require pilots of such aircraft to hold EASA licences.

Note, I only mention those foreign registered aircraft that are based in the EU - it would not apply to foreign registered aircraft that are also based outside the EU that enter the EU for scheduled / charter flight purposes.

[Assad Spaceship2]

Hello, Here's a link to follow:
Association Colours in Cockpit
http://www.vfcev.de/content/eng-index.html

Allow me to wish you all merry christmas & happy new year 2008

[2close]

HAPPY CHRISTMAS AND A MERRY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL

Well, that should bugger you lot up!

Oh, for God's sake, it say's "Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year to you all".

But hey, I selected those colours myself without ANY help, and after six tons of nosh washed down by 14 1/2 gallons of El Vino Collapso!

Tee Hee.

Seriously, have good one, troops, and keep up the fight!

2close

[TelBoy]

2close, you are a God, an Angel, you are a giver of colour. For I can see you wishes of merriment for the festive season, I can read each letter and without looking through a red filter. You have brought me colour to a grey Europe, for the CAA tell me I am “colour blind” and I must therefore live a grey life and my dreams must stay as dreams. However now due to your gift of colour I can now visit shops that show SALE sign outside and save money on items marked X I can drive away from a green light and stop at a red one, and indeed when the signal shows yellow I can make great haste with all the others who see colour. When flying an aircraft and having a radio failure I can now enter into a one way conversation with the tower instead of simply phoning them on my mobile – how wonderful the world of colour is.

I thought that Europe was to be forever grey. America is the land of color as the FAA man told me “my son you can see color just fine” I thought that that the different spelling and far away land must surely mean that things look different there and that this was the only county where I am to be blessed with colour, but 2close you now have brought colour to me in Europe.

I must now tell the CAA of their mistake; for I am sure that they cannot want to make me “different” that would be discrimination and I am sure that the CAA would not do anything like that.

I hope that colour will be for life and not just for Christmas.

[Witza]

Hi, i was wondering if anyone that has been around this problem for longer than me has a list of the type of color exam and the place where one can take it?

Another thing, how much does it cost to take the medical exam in Zurich, or even better, does anyone know if i can go there and have only the color exam to check? (i have done all others, and would not want to pass through all that again just to fail at the color...)

Thanks for any help :)
Green
a litle less green
an ugly green
Red
yellow
pink
white <-that says white...
blue
Damn.... :D i see color now! lolll, i guess that the exams could be made with crayons... :) or maybe those guys who design aircrafts could use distinct color instead of different shades of the same one :ugh:
HAVE A GREAT NEW YEAR! :cool::ok: try not to drink too much

[Witza]

Thanks for that info Telboy, i think it was a test like that although i cant remember if there were two light one above the other or just one light that changed colors....i seem to have the idea of having a blue light also....is there any test like this or am i confused?

anyway, i am at least a bit pleased to hear that i can take a different test...

I hope you all had a nice new year party :), and lets hope that this will be even better.

[isi3000]

If you take the medical quite a while before starting training for any pilots licence, so before the PPL, and fail it do you have to mention this when you take the test again? :confused:

[Blinkz]

If you also read the protocol for the beynes test, it doesn't seem to be the one the UK is using? I did mine years ago so can't remember exactly. Those of you that have done it recently, is that what they do? I thought the CAA just show you each colour once and that was it? the protocol says u see them a couple of times, and if you only make one mistake your allowed a second run....

[Blinkz]

Neo, hehe thats quite a lapse in concentration. Cutting it a little fine as well failing 2/3 of the official tests! glad you passed ok though!

2close, I guess you can look at it in that way. However for most people its more a bonus that the dream can actually begin having been told that it wasn't going to happen! Also by the sounds of it the UK HAVEN'T changed their protocol since they are still doing it the way they always did. Question is, why haven't they changed?

[mau mau]

Therefore, any person making two or less errors must be classified as COLOUR SAFE

Yes it's true.
I've never did only one mistake with this test, and I done it at least 4,5 times.
At gatwick I done 2 mistake....and they, to be sure before release 1 class, did the test of lanterns: lights with color orange, red, blue, green and dirty white.

[ivierre]

Hello all,

Being an airline pilot has always been my dream. One of the reasons stopping me from starting my aviation train is I have the problem of astigmatism of 2.0, and 2.5 in each of my eyes. (or in chinese saying, 200 and 250 degree in each eye respectively.)

I am currently living in Hong Kong and since the HKCAD does not spell out the requirement like JAA (for example) does, I am getting confused on whether I could get the Class 1 medical. I tried to have a look at the JAA visual requirements for reference and their requirement for Astigmatism is 2.0 for initial applicants and 3.0 for renewal.

Does anybody know what the requirements for CAD are? and does anyone know if I have lasik done to cure the astigmatism, and after that 1 year waiting period, do they still need to consider the astigmatism problems i have before lasik?

I am aiming to join CX eventually either as cadet or direct entry pilot, thats the reason why I really want to know about what CAD or CX thinks.

I check with some old post and seemed like SIA do consider the original prescriptions before lasik....

I heard that there are some pilots with similar problems, what they have done is to get their license in a different standard like FAA or CASA (I dunno just for example...but do they have lower standard?) and then later on convert it into JAA, which would be count as a renewal of license? How did it work and have I misunderstood anything?

Thank you very much for help and advice in advance.

[ab33t]

If you do a CAA 1st Class you will have to do the colour vision again . I dont see any risk involved in doing it. I have sympathy that is why I am going down the FAA route as well .

[Loose rivets]

Have a good look through with "Search" using words like Lasik etc., there's been quite a lot posted about the initial requirements. There is a maximum correction allowed, and there are other factors listed as well over the last few years.


Set one year in the second box down on the left -- and filter for the medical forum of course.

If you don't get what you need, set the maximum time, (the first one on the list) something like "Anytime"

[IRpilot2006]

What if I just wanted to do a JAA PPL/IR i.e. a class 2 CAA medical, would they need the CV test again?

I should pass the CV test perfectly okay but one never takes a risk like this.

I have spoken to some people about this and all recommend getting the whole medical done elsewhere in Europe. Airline pilots who think they might have a problem never go to the CAA to have it looked at, in the first place!

When you say there is no risk, ab33t, do you mean the FAA licence is not affected by failing any later medical?

[ivierre]

thanks very much for reply. Actually i have done looks through quite some old post about it but wondered if those were update. I will try to search for them again.

By the way, could anyone please confirm with me that the FAA and CASA have already dropped the pre-lasik prescriptions limit?

thanks very much

[vlieger]

Thanks for your reply, 7120.

In the meantime I have done my medical class 1 at Gatwick and guess what, I passed!!

You were right, as long as you meet the requirement the question of "early" glaucoma is irrelevant. Their ophthalmologist even said that he doesn't consider my case glaucoma but just ocular hypertension (contrary to what they said in Moorefield). Their testing didn't involve the confrontation technique but I had to do a proper field test that I had never done before, i.e. not the normal one -- this time it was a so-called "monocular Estermann" test, which basically means a field test concentrating on the very outer periphery. I only had very minor faults so they said it was alright, they checked my eye pressure, which has been brought down from 24-26 to 14 with my daily Travatan drops, and that was it...

I found them to be very friendly and the ophthalmologist is a very relaxed guy who's a pilot himself, we ended up more chatting about which school to go to than about vision :ok:

So anyway, if there's anybody else in a similar border case scenario as I am, be aware that there is hope! (and please do get in touch)

Now off to get a visa...

[dogsbody711]

Hey everyone,

I have partial colour blindness and have therefore failed the ishi hara plates test but was advised at the time that by taking a FALANT test i could possibly get the restrictions placed upon me lifted. Would anyone here have a contact number or an address i could write to with regards to taking one? I heard Gatwick was the place to go but cant find anything off of my own back.

Many thanks in advance!!

Greg Noles :)

[gijoe]

Greg,

Can I suggest you read the colour blindness thread on this board before doing anything else?

There is lots of good advice on the thread and it will spell out all the options to you.

G:ok:

[sam.lk7]

Hey,

does anyone know if you can be cabin crew if colourblind??

thanks heaps.

[TelBoy]

Not sure about cabin crew in Australia as they allow CVD pilots thanks to Dr Pape, but in JAA land - NO they do NOT allow cabin crew to have CVD.

The same question was once asked in this forum. Why not try searching through it and PM the guy concerned.

Hope it works out bettin in Oz for you than it would over here.

[pmh1234]

Hi
I'm red-green colorblind.
Have several times been trough the threads regarding this subject.
I don't think even if I find all the different lanterns in the world and line them up, that I could pass one of them.
My medical limits me to VCL, which means no night flying.
Will I ever be possible to obtain a jaa instrument rating - still only flying by day?
The trick is that I have no limitation on IFR, but I understand that in order to obtain the IFR you need to have a night rating first.
Can this be handled with on a special permit from caa or...........

[sam.lk7]

Thanks heaps mate,

i am going to look into the matter further!

[jimdean2]

I've got an optomoterist meeting booked for two days away. Does anyone know if there's a test for general eyesight as well as colour and what is it it/what i need to pass?
Thanks, Carl

[Mohit_C]

Hi everyone,

I read somewhere in this section that when you do the Class 1 Medical renovation the limits on far sight goes from -5 to -8 but I would like to know if it is the same in Spain, at CIMA in Madrid (for instance).

Thanks.

[RMarvin86]

Is it possible to pass the initial class 1 at Gatwick if I fall a little bit out of the limits with my eye vision. Max astigmatism for initial is 2.0 dioptres, may they accept 2.25 ? I'm ok with myopia. Are they that strict or do they consider each single case? Does anyone know a story like this?? I hope to improve my astigmatism by changing my eye glass asap and with the help of a very good oculist. It should be possible.. but just in case i can't?? HELLLPP. Thanks!

RM86

[bluenose81huskys]

HI RMARVIN,

The best thing to do is to ring CAA Gatwick itself and just ask them questions before you decide to book up Just in case!

Here is a Link, Hope this helps : http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49

[Bealzebub]

No definetaly do not do that ! The AME is certified by the Civil Aviation Authority to conduct medical tests in accordance with their requirements and nobody elses. There are procedures in place to deal with matters such as this when a problem occurs.

They do want you to pass, plenty of people do. Ignore the "Whoo hoo" and "or else" merchants and follow the correct protocols. Hopefully it will all work out fine.

[2close]

One other thing.

It seems that the CAA has the CAD test sat on the shelf at CAA Towers and is only awaiting procedures to be finalised before implementing its use.

I was under the impression that, before any change can be made to any CAA procedures which affect the public the new system has to be put forward for consultation, which includes comment from members of the public. This also includes a Regulatory Impact Assessment and the dates for consultation have to be notified to the public.

I am not aware of any such procedure being followed for the implementation of the CAD test.

Please could someone advise me if this process is not applicable to the Medical Department and that they are permitted to do ther own thing and if so where is that laid down?

[mauli747]

Hi,

just want to know, how you guys think about the following prescription concerning my intentions, getting a JAR-FCL First Class Medical:

R: + 5.25 (sph) -2.25 (cyl) 173 :\
L: + 4.75 (sph) -1.75 (cyl) 8 :)

I am aware of the JAR FCL's and the limits for the initial examination, but the vision required (6/9 each eye and 6/6 both) can also be reached with an correction of R +5.00 / -2.00 which is the max allowed. :ugh:

I just wrote to the CAA, but maybe, there's some one with an experience concerning my problem or any advise.
210 hours flight experience are already existent - I have a FAA PPL/IR and FAA First Class Medical.

Thanks.

[mau mau]

MAULI, by my experience, since you have a FAA PPL, get also CPL.
If you get it, Gatwick is more free to apply bigger limits till the renewal if they guess.
In your case, since you are a little bit out of limits, I'm quiete sure you will get 1 class. But before, you have to get FAA CPL because they will want to see yuour flight licence. They don't ask your FAA medical certificate, but only the licence.

[FlyEJF]

Ok so i guess i'll have to book an appointment down at Gatwick after i have done some research on here.

Thanks for the info

Does anyone have know what the apprxs cost will be?

Ed

[2close]

Telboy,

I think you need to request chapter and verse copies of the relevant documents to which they refer, under the Freedom of Information Act 2005.

The CAA as an organisation is very determined to comply with the FOIA and prior to its implementation instructions were issued to all departmental heads and staff on complying with the Act.

Ask the author of the letter directly to inform you exactly which relevant sections he/she is referring to. Only give them a limited but reasonable period of time to respond.

We've tried to discuss this issue with them and they fob us off with double-talk, contradiction between letters to respective enquirers and excuse after excuse. You would need to be from another planet not to realise what is going on. They are trying to stall any action to the point where EASA takes over whereupon they can say "it's out of our hands". You really don't even need an O Level in Cookery to work that one out. My negotiating and waiting is over - I'm moving to the next level immediately.

Another point that I had not thought about (just pointed out by my other half) regarding the CAD Test, this test not only allegedly tests your colour vision but is also a major test of ambidexterity. The missus, who has perfect colour vision, reckons there is no way on earth that she would be able to pass the CAD Test because she would not be able to operate the equipment quickly enough. So, how many more false failures are we going to have?

BTW, I find the web-based CAD Test is a piece of p*** and I was informed at City Uni that I would in all probability meet the final standards for passing the regulatory CAD Test, therefore, from a purely selfish point of view it would be in my interests to see its inception. However, the big picture requires me to maintain my standpoint that I fail to see how replacing one set of irrelevant tests with another equally irrelevant test actually improves flight safety standards. I'm not being altruistic, just practical.

[pmh1234]

Glad the threat is back up..........I'll try again:

I'm red-green colorblind.
Have several times been trough the threads regarding this subject.
I don't think even if I find all the different lanterns in the world and line them up, that I could pass one of them.
My medical limits me to VCL, which means no night flying.
Will I ever be possible to obtain a jaa instrument rating - still only flying by day?
The trick is that I have no limitation on IFR, but I understand that in order to obtain the IFR you need to have a night rating first.
Can this be handled with on a special permit from caa?
Has anybody got a UK JAA IFR with VCL in their medical?

[Blinkz]

One suggestion might be to try and get the contact details for Dr Sally Evans, she is part of the CAA UK Medical department and is currently chairman of the EASA medical board that is in charge of setting the new EASA medical guidelines. Talking to her as a group might be useful to see what is proposed under the new regs and if there is anything we can do to try and get them to use a decent test?

[2close]

Windforce - are you a working FAA licenced pilot. If so, you may want to ensure that your colleagues are brought up to speed on this back door method that the authorities are using to restrict foreign registered aircraft operating in the EU. They failed in restricting the aircraft so now they go for the licences.:ugh:

Corporate Aviation has an equivalent of BALPA so they should be told about the proposals.

A bit of good news is that AOPA are intending to take on the authorities (CAA / EASA) under human rights legislation as it is proposed to do away with the UK CAA issued BCPL which is not a JAA licence and will have no equivalent under EASA. Therefore, anyone wishing to change to an EASA CPL may have a rough road to travel down to get one and this may be outside the means of some who will then lose their licence and their jobs, clearly in contravention of existing EU law.

I raised this issue with Dr Evans as I am in the same position. No deviation for CVD = No medical = No CPL/FI = No job = Loss of income. Her reply? What do you reckon?

Therefore, I have written to AOPA to bring our issue under the same umbrella as the BCPL and I also intend to bring my MP into the fold. Come on troops, we need to bring pressure to bear. Parliament is now involved in the IMCR debacle so why shouldn't they get involved here. Anyone know or fly with Lembit Opik or any flying celebrities who know what crap this issue is? Get your pens out and start writing.

[shayne87]

hey guys im new here from australia, ive read abit of this thread and discovered i might still have a chance in pursuing my dream of becoming a pilot, i started my training a few years ago and decided to go for my medical which i failed my colour vision and got diagnosed with a moderate deuteranomaly, i dont have any problems in day to day life and dont see the problem. wat r they requirements in australia and is there anyway around it without having to move to the US to do my training.
thanks
shayne.

[sergs]

Hello everyone,

Apologies if this has been covered before, but 'Search' didn't return any results. Firstly, I'm having difficulty finding the Belgian adaptation of the JAR-FCL standards. Could someone please either provide a link to their specifications/limits, or write the specifications/limits here?


Secondly, my situation is as follows: Simply put, I am within the UK CAA initial limits (+5/-6) but suppose I were to fall outside of the Belgium limits. Presuming that I pass the UK CAA Class 1 medical, would I be able to renew or (pardon my ignorance here) convert the UK medical to a Belgian Class 1?

Thanks in advance,

[ACIDO]

Dear Sergs,

I don't Know Belgian limits, but unfortunately I must inform that CAA initial limits are +5/-6, not -8!


Bye!

ACIDO

[sergs]

ACIDO,

Thanks for the post. You're right, ofcourse, it is -6. I read the entire 22 pages before making my post and I think that's how it shows itself.

Regards

Sergs

[Mohit_C]

I think because my post got moved here, it must've been skipped. Anyways, I'll repeat myself:



Hi everyone,

I read somewhere in this section that when you do the Class 1 Medical renovation the limits on far sight goes from -5 to -8 but I would like to know if it is the same in Spain, at CIMA in Madrid (for instance).

Thanks.

[2close]

Who's there?

Oi, I know you're out there!!!

Come on, play fair, use a 'proper' colour! Let us all in on the game!

;)

[supermantk]

can you obtain a class 1 medical if you are just over the -6.00 limit or is it if you are over by any amount you will fail??

[Northern_Lights]

hello backtrack,

ive found vision training exercises helpful for my myopia....your son may want to see if they help before trying surgery.

my myopia was -5.25 eight weeks ago. A sight test this week showed it's -4.75.

The two things that have helped me the most have been leaving my glasses/contacts off as much as possible, and wearing plus lenses (+1.5) while doing near work.

I think my progress has been pretty decent considering I have to do a fair bit of reading every day, and have to wear contacts/glasses for hours at a stretch when Im at work (im a medical student).

hope this helps. good luck! :)

[Shunter]

It's in London - http://www.city.ac.uk/optometry/

Personally I found the Farnsworth much easier than the lanterns used in JAA-land, so it might be a decent option for you!

[planecrazy.eu]

Just wanted to add a few things from experience here.

My perscription is .25 over, and the guys at gatwick asked for my perscriptions for five years, then asked me to go get two more. They then said its 50/50, but if i can read the 20/20 line with my specs on then i will be ok.

So advice from that is, if you are a little over the limits, but can read 20/20 with correction then its worth a shot, if you cant read 20/20, then sorry to say, its not going to happen, thats what they told me.

Another thing, i have read loads about improving vision using natrual techniques.

This is not 100% rubbish to a degree. The techniques actually help the muscles of the eye, and in turn help you focus and see better, however, they dont corrent vision in the true sense.

Its possible that if i trainined my eyes to focus better then i could improve upto 1diopter on the eye test, an optician told me this, and another one reluctantly back him up, but said its a long shot.

The only way to truely know is to take the test, and if you pass you pass, and then that great. If you fail, then thats just the way it is, life goes on, and you;ll not spend the rest of you days asking what if?

With regards to the last thread, I also got an improvement leaving my specs off for a week, i went from +5.25 to +4.75, which is very similar to yours.

I considered the laser too, however, there is a 30% chance i will get 20/20 vision, even if i can see now 20/20 corrected they informed me at my consultation that there is a good chance i will loose the ability to see 20/20 corrected or uncorrected, which is why i said no way, as the CAA told me that 20/20 corrected is a must, and i will take no chances.

The last thing, at my consultation they told me about an astigmatism reduction surgery, where they make two cuts and this can reduce astigmatism, which in turn, usually correct vision by a small ammount. However, since its a small ammount i need, i am looking into this very serious.

For the guyes that are long sighted, there are new ways now to improve your vision using a lens when you sleep, my optician sells them but tells me they are only useful for long sighted people, dont know any more about this as i am short sighted.

[9v-SKA]

Hi, I'm in the process of researching for my flying training in Australia. I may be calling up an AME in Australia within the next few days as I have astig of 1.0 in both eyes and myopia of 4.0 also in both eyes. This may be of interest to you: http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/dame/index.htm

[steve_uniacke]

Hey guys,

Ok, have been browsing around on this site and there seems to be a lot of helpful info being shared, so hope i'll be able to get something back for this.

OK, like so many of you... im really passionate about being a pilot, but because of my eyesight i dont think i can get a JAR Class 1. Funnily enough, after looking at the criteria i believe i can get a transport canada or FAA licence, but since im european (irish) i'd like to try whatever i can to get a JAR one.

OK, the result for my recent eyetest (2 weeks ago) are as follows:

-small to moderate right convergent strabismus which on occasion is alternating (right esotropia)

- bilateral inferior obliques over action in a V pattern

-visual acuity or 6/24 in the right and 6/6 in the left. Weak vision in the right is due to a myopia and astigmatism (-3.5 ds with a -075 cyl axis 165).

- a correction improves right vision to 6/5 part

-1 dioptre of myotropic astigmatism in the left eye, with correction, left vision improves to 6/5.

-Generally eyes are healthy. Ichihara colour vision test normal, as is intraoccular pressure.

OK, so would anybody be able to give me some advice/help on this one or is anyone in a similar situation?

Keeping in mind that since i live in Ireland (the rip off republic) and its actually cheaper to fly over and back to the UK to get a class 1 medical, its an option i'd consider, so any JAR info would be appreciated.

Thanks!

steve

[Cookie88]

2close,

I m from Asia, where its national carrier is one of the leading airline in the world.. " )

anyway, yes, it is quite an old equipment and I was not able to find out much about the colour used in the test...it was not so straight forward as for some part of the test, it has a filter that mask the colour as though you are seeing through a layer of dust and mist..

nevertheless, i was still able to pass the test by identify the colours correctly.. hope that, soon i will be able to fulfilled my childhood dreams..and for the rest, not to give up..

cheers,

[2close]

Good stuff Cookie,


Just don't build your hopes on being able to pass one of the JAA tests on the basis of passing the E-G test.

Sticking with your home national carrier sounds like a good option.

Happy flying,

2close

[2close]

Hi Tel,

My German is fine but that is one really difficult to understand accent; only the second time I've tried Swiss!!.

All it says, though, is along the lines of "This is a recorded message for Augenpraxis..... The office hours are 9 - 11 in the morning and 12 - 4 in the afternoon. The emergency number is yada yada yada". I hung up then to keep the cost down.

I suggest you give them a call between 11 - 3 UK time.

HTH

2close

[CVD]

I'm a little confused about the possibilty of obtaining a night qualification as a colour retard. My class 2 restricts me to day only.

I have been advised by an Instructor that I cannot obtain a night qualification because I cannot comply with the requirement ‘to complete 5 take offs and full stop landings at night as PIC of aeroplanes’ as my licence restricts me to day only and therefore cannot be PIC at night. Further the entry requirement for a CPL course is worded slightly differently, it requires ‘5 SOLO take offs and full stop landings’ which again seems to be contrary to my licence. I have had this view confirmed by the CAA. They have advised that if I want a CPL (restricted to day only) that they will agree a deviation from the requirments and provide a letter to give to the training organisation so that I can undertake the course-but no night qualification.

So my question is-as usual -who the hell is right

CVD

[gijoe]

In this case the CAA because they unfortunately think they own the air around us.

But my advice would be to be very careful given the EASA chaos that is about to descend upon us. Many others have written here how they think that all of the deviations issued by the CAA for the like of us will be worthless once EASA is in charge.

G

[Shunter]

Stick the instructor in the RH seat as a safety pilot, then fly your circuits and log P1. That's how many people have done it, and the CAA have happily issued their night qual.

The instructor who told you otherwise is incorrect (although the CAA do have a habit of making it up as they go along sometimes, so perhaps he's not entirely to blame!).

[TelBoy]

Thanks 2close for the translation, you are truly a star. I thought I was going to have to go to night school first to get passed the JAA :)

[steve_uniacke]

just a quick reply for anyone who has been in a similar condition to mine...

a few days ago i got my eyes checked by an aeromedical examiner, however, i wasn't given a "yes" or a "no". i was referred on to the aeromedical center in Dublin for the following reason:

basically, my visual acuity is fine, but the main problem is with my stereopsis and binocular vision. The good news is, that my brain hasn't entirely suppressed the input from the weaker eye, as would normally be the case for most people over the age of 20 with the similar condition, however, the problem being that my eyes dont fixate on one particular point, hence the stereopsis problems.

So, its off to dublin i go for a referral, and get the aeromedical examiners opinion. If this fails at achieving the requirements, im gonna have to look at getting my weaker eye straightened, and hopefully try to recover some of the stereopsis this way.

for completeness sake, the rules in the Jar-FCL 3 is

"An applicant with significant defects of
binocular vision shall be assessed as unfit. There is
no stereoscopic test requirement "
"Monocularity entails unfitness for a Class 1 certificate."

"(e) An applicant with imbalance of the ocular
muscles (heterophorias) exceeding (when measured
with usual correction, if prescribed):

2·0 prism dioptres in hyperphoria at 6 metres,
10·0 prism dioptres in esophoria at 6 metres,
8·0 prism dioptres in exophoria at 6 metres;
and 1·0 prism dioptre in hyperphoria at 33 cms,
6·0 prism dioptres in esophoria at 33 cms,
12·0 prism dioptres in exophoria at 33 cms

shall be assessed as unfit.

If the fusional reserves are sufficient to prevent asthenopia and
diplopia the AMS may consider a fit assessment

For Heterophorias: The applicant/certificate holder shall be reviewed by an ophthalmologist acceptable to the AMS. The fusional reserves shall be tested using a method acceptable to the AMS (e.g. Goldman Red/Green binocular fusion test)."


I suppose any input from people in similar cases would be great. thanks!

[Shunter]

Anyone else get a letter from City about further red/green CVD research? They say they'll throw me a tenner and travel expenses for my trouble. Wonder if that stretches to 120L of Avgas :E

[gijoe]

I don't know about that much but £70.00 for the train fare from the West Country on Monday looks as though it might be on.

As far as I am concerned any chance to help in the understanding of CVDs is good news and I will use the chance the pick their brains about how things are going and where.

G:ok:

[Shunter]

wf,

Just a brief letter saying, "we examined you in 2006 and as part of further research we need red/green CVD's. We'll pay your travel expenses, so give us a bell if you're interested". Didn't go into any details or specify if it was anything to do with the CAA.

[gijoe]

No it's not - it's to do with a new test being devised for Tube drivers...but this is good for news for everyone because it means that there is a move to undertake testing that is not cards with coloured dots on but more practically aligned to the job in hand. The TfL test is single presentations of the same coloured lights as for the Beynes.

I genuinally think this is a good sign. :ok:

[2close]

gsportcars,

Check your PMs asap.

If anyone can contact Gav tell him to do so stat!!

Cheers,

2close

[norton2005]

Northen lights, what eye exercises are you trying? could you point me in the direction for some info about it?

[alanmtc]

Hello guys,

I have perfect vision in my left eye.

In my right eye I have +2.50, and I can see 6/12 only using my right eye.

I have my JAA Class 1 Medical, and also my CAA NZ Class medical. All good for European and New Zealand flying.

Now the problem.......

I am going to Naples Air Centre to do my training, but I have just heard the FAA class 1 requirments are 20/20 in each eye seperatly!!! IS THIS TRUE???

If so.... AM I SCREWED??????

Can someone advise!

[alanmtc]

Hello guys,

I have perfect vision in my left eye.

In my right eye I have +2.50, and I can see 6/12 only using my right eye.

I have my JAA Class 1 Medical, and also my CAA NZ Class medical. All good for European and New Zealand flying.

Now the problem.......

I am going to Naples Air Centre to do my training, but I have just heard the FAA class 1 requirments are 20/20 in each eye seperatly!!! IS THIS TRUE???

If so.... AM I SCREWED??????

Can someone advise!

[Shunter]

20/20 yes, but glasses are allowed.


The FAA reports Eye standards for a firstclass airman medical certificate are:
(a) Distant visual acuity of 20/20 or better in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses. If corrective lenses (spectacles or contact lenses) are necessary for 20/20 vision, the person may be eligible only on the condition that corrective lenses are worn while exercising the privileges of an airman certificate.
(b) Near vision of 20/40 or better, Snellen equivalent, at 16 inches in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses. If age 50 or older, near vision of 20/40 or better, Snellen equivalent, at both 16 inches and 32 inches in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses.
(c) Ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties.
(d) Normal fields of vision.
(e) No acute or chronic pathological condition of either eye or adnexa that interferes with the proper function of an eye, that may reasonably be expected to progress to that degree, or that may reasonably be expected to be aggravated by flying.
(f) Bifoveal fixation and vergencephoria relationship sufficient to prevent a break in fusion under conditions that may reasonably be expected to occur in performing airman duties. Tests for the factors named in this paragraph are not required except for persons found to have more than 1 prism diopter of hyperphoria, 6 prism diopters of esophoria, or 6 prism diopters of exophoria. If any of these values are exceeded, the Federal Air Surgeon may require the person to be examined by a qualified eye specialist to determine if there is bifoveal fixation and an adequate vergencephoria relationship. However, if otherwise eligible, the person is issued a medical certificate pending the results of the examination.

[mcgoo]

Why do you need an FAA class 1 medical for training, an FAA class 2 is sufficient for the use of CPL/IR, class 3 otherwise.

[2close]

Interesting comment by Prince H on the BBC News Special on his return from Afghan regarding his brother's possible deployment on operational flying tours.

[alanmtc]

I think FAA class 2 is still 20/20??

But are you saying I can do my training with a FAA class 3???

Thanks

[CLSpringer1223]

Hey all,
Just had a quick question. I have a friend who is color blind and has been interested in flying for most of his life. He is now considering beginning his PPL, but he is worried that his color blindness will keep him from reaching this goal. So, here's my question. Does anyone know if there is any way that he could get a medical, or is there a waiver that he can get from the FAA, or should he just give up? Thanks.

[davidd]

Guys, hope for cvd pilots ?

check it out http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3983384

maybe

:ok:

[tingtang]

I just got my JAA class 1 but it wasn't a straightforward ordeal as my visual correction for being short sighted was 0.50 over the limit (i.e. -6.5) and I initially failed the medical at Gatwick. A bad day!

I wasn't too happy that day last summer at Gatwick, especially since my optician said I was inside the limits and should have no problem with the medical. I have no other problems with my eyes, they just require correction and I have been waiting for the initial medical limits to rise for a good few years.

As soon as I failed the eye exam, both the optician and doctor explained the deviation route. They said that if I were to come to them with an ICAO CPL (eg. FAA) they could treat the medical as a renewal - since there are no renewal limits of correction - there should be no problem. I initially dismissed their help as I thought they were being too harsh not giving me the medical in the first place and I didn't want to go and train in another country and waste my money. However, after getting their advice in writing and after thinking about what they said for a while, I decided to quit my job, go to the USA and get the FAA CPL.

I went to the USA with a UK PPL with 75hrs for 4 months of intense training and came back last week with an FAA CPL/IFR (single/multi). I went to Gatwick 2 days after I got back and I passed the medical no problem!! I was pretty happy!

The deviation means that you can only fly 'G' reg aircraft on the medical and if you want to fly other European planes you would have to get a separate medical from that JAA state first. This was no problem to me as I want to fly G reg and be based in the UK (and with my FAA licence I can also fly N reg if required).

If you are in a similar position to me, my advice is to not give up if flying is your dream. I took a bit of a risk, but it was calculated and the advice was straight from the head doctor and optician at Gatwick. I had the best time flying in the USA with Europe-American Aviation (EAA) (amazing flying school), met some great people, had great experiences, and even managed to work out some back-up plans flying N reg aircrafts (one was flying in Indonesia...) in case I didn't get the class 1.

If you are in a similar position to me, I could not more highly recommend the route I took. If I was given the medical first time around and I had the choice to go to the USA to get my FAA licences I would do it without a doubt - the GA flying is amazing out there and EAA is the place to learn! Who wouldn't want to have Nassau as part of their CPL qualifying cross country... Good luck.


PS. When I went back to Gatwick last week, the doctor said that because I was only just outside the initial limit he was issuing a medical without a deviation?!?! I didn't actually ask what prescription they worked out I was, I just took the full class 1 and ran and have zero regrets of going to the USA!

[gsportcars]

As much as I am interested as the next CVD person about various different tests available in different countries for the class 1 colour vision medicals I feel that this thread needs to be brought back to it's orignal purpose/topic.
That is the fact that the CAA/JAA are way behind the times and blatantly discriminating against CVD's.
Way back in the thread there were people talking about solicitors and court battles against the JAA because of this unfair discrimination but it has now gradually changed to possible ways to pass these unfair tests and regulations. I think what we should be discussing is how to get rid of these tests.:D

Has anyone made or heard of any real progress regarding this recently.
In the mean time I am still looking into the best way to 'get around' these tests just like everyone else lol.:rolleyes:

[2close]

Yes, there is real progress but for obvious reasons we have stopped discussing them openly on this forum and are now working with our legal advisers.

If you wish to be involved then PM me your e-mail address and details and I'll let you know what the present state of play is.

[gsportcars]

I remember our conversation 2close but I did not want to openly mention anything for the exact reason you just mentioned. I know how a simple comment on a public forum can cause all kinds of bother.
I am still very much on a learning curve with this topic and I am currently weighing up my options so I would be wary of going the legal route just yet but I will keep a close eye on the progress as much as possible. I just wanted to know that the main point of this thread hadn't been forgotten as such.

[xxgunnerxx]

Hi, does any know where I can find the exact eyesight number I need to be in order to get a class 1 medical in Canada? Im currently a first year uni student with three years to go until I find out if i'll make it to med school, so my backup is aviation. I currently have -2 eyesight on both eyes and it is getting 0.25 worse each year.

On this website: http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/Part4/Standards/t42402.htm it says you need no more than +-3. Is that the actual number or is it for something else?:ooh:

[Hawk]

For the moment there may be cross-overs between the Vision Thread and the Color Blindness thread as new regulatory "vision" arrangements are currently discussed. The Forum is not concerned in the short term and encourages members to read both threads.

On another point as mentioned by 2close, possible personal or class actions regarding color blindness against regulatory authorities are best discussed off the Site. Posting actions here is basically posting in public domain.

PPRuNe provides this thread for general discussion and networking only.

Regards,
Forum Mods.

[davidd]

what make me laugh about night flying is that many reports suggest that cvd people have improved night vision, so why the no night flying !

belowradar >what were you diagnosed at city uni ?
moderate ? severe.

[Witza]

Hi there,
a few days ago i sent an e.mail to check about making an appointment at the Aeromedical Center in Dübendorf, and i was surprised by the e-mail e got back...

"Dear Sir

Unfortunately we do not fix appointments anymore for people from abroad.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again for further questions.

Yours sincerely

xxxx xxxxStv Leiter Arbeitsbereich Human Technics & Support
Eidgenössisches Departement für Verteidigung,
Bevölkerungsschutz und Sport VBS
Verteidigung - Luftwaffe
Fliegerärztliches Institut FAI / Aeromedical Center
Bettlistrasse 16; 8600 Dübendorf+41 44 823 25 19 (Sekr)+41 44 823 25 42 (Büro)+41 44 823 25 20 (Fax) "

did i sent the e-mail to the wrong medical center??? :)

[belowradar]

Diagnosed Moderate protomenous

FAA CLass 1 with SODA unrestricted

JAR Class 1 restricted to daytime only no public Transport

I gained CAA night rating based on US medical so met JAR CPL/IR requirements (must have night rating) but although they issued me a night rating and charged me for it (after training with JAR instructor at night and proving safe and competent) - they then restricted my license to daytime only !

I have gained night experience and if I thought I was unsafe I would definitley not fly as I do not have a deathwish.

The JAR system is geared up to stop CVD pilots before they ever gain a license. I was odd because I already had an FAA license and had proved myself to be able to fly safely at night no proble. I now fly IFR without any issues.

Moral of the story based on my own experiences (and CVD condition)

Keep on flying and don't let anyone tell you that you shouldn't be a pilot. Only stop if you are unsafe and cannot distinguish the colours that you need to see for example red / white for PAPI / VASI's - One day soon the rules will change for the better.:ok:

[Strobe lights]

Belowradar, did you told spiez Dr. all about that you mentioned before, in advance?

Regards,
Strobe

[Witza]

Hey guys, just found this website, i thought some of you might be interested...

http://www.dgcolour.co.uk/products-colourvision.htm?gclid=CKeYh9uDsJICFQpCMAod4WJwMQ

take care,
:)

[zagno83]

Thank you much fella'......
I'm here in the US and i fly with no problem with my FAA 1, no limitations with a soda (had to do light gun test).....
I was just wondering what are the standards in middle east since there's a lot of jobs there, i was wondering if they would let go a first class with a soda or if the company clinic will turn us down for CVD...... i heard different opinions....
anybody else has experience with that?????

P.S. dont give up on the greencard....that's how i got here....

Regards everybody.

Zagno

[zagno83]

Telboy
i couldn't agree more with you about european BS when it comes down to CVD......what can you do???? just hope for the future for all the people with this issue....i have mild protano-something i've been flying glass cockpit at night for 3 years now with NO ISSUES AT ALL its all discriminating BS......
Just move to the states or canada or australia...in this places is fairly easy to get a 1st class with CVD.....

I'm still wondering about middle east and the requirement for the local authority and for the specific companies....they accept ICAO license and medicals....but what about soda????

Anibody know????

Take care y'all

[march1981]

I feel the same way Scottish CPL, I've done so much research I think I'd qualify for an honoury doctorate at City Uni. It's sadly become part of my daily routine, checking out the PPRUNE site for any updates on CVD, now and again I pop to have a look at the CAA site, I should know better really, they have much more important things to deal with, like investigating airlines who lose bags. ha!

I'm not sure where it'll all end up, but here's hoping they sort something soon, and for good. We can then close this thread down and we all know where we stand, end of story.

Do we really have to make the testing process this complex.

[2close]

Rare Limited Edition For Sale to Good Home

Limited-edition pink-vinyl 12" picture-disc of Agadoo signed by Alan Barton whilst he was on holiday in Skegness when the cloud cover was BKN026 and the wind was 370/10

Well said, Shunter, glad to see that wine has come in for some good use. Time for me to hit the Strongbow, methinks!!! ;)

[TelBoy]

Stella for me - well said Shunter. I'm 16 years and still fighting (JAA that is, FAA are OK!).

Lets :mad: em - I'm working on it :ok:

[2close]

Stella for me - well said Shunter. I'm 16 years and still fighting (JAA that is, FAA are OK!).

Lets em - I'm working on it

Tel, With your thinning lid and wrinkly skin you are not going to convince anyone that you are 16! Laughter lines my ar*e!!! ;)

[belowradar]

Guys , good to know that I am not unique in being a dogmatic headstrong, argumentative not take no for an answer SOB who won't let some light box technician tell me that I can't fly a plane safely at night. Clear Logic is a pure curse sometimes.

I think that we will see some light at the end of the tunnell but in the meantime it is great to know that you guys are also out there making sure that this nonsense stops as soon as possible.

The more qualified and experienced we get, the more daft their pathetic arguments will be.

Off to listen to Agadoo and have a pint of Stella !:)

[2close]

And just to keep everyone happy whilst they quaff their personal tipples......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu-UkTv8tVk

[TelBoy]

I didn't know you are a fan 2close :)

[davidd]

Thats a good thing, but seems strange, how can you ( i mean collectively speaking) hold it for a class 2 but not class1 , its a vision test.
Seems very odd, no ?

[Overdrive]

Good post 2close.

Surely when things go EASA they wouldn't pull the concession plug for aerial work retrospectively... would they?

:eek:

[TelBoy]

Daniel,

Each ICAO state has its own regulations. In JAA (Europe) we have very restrictive regulations on Colour Vision and in fact until late 2009 the UK CAA has the most liberal of all EU states in allowing a restricted class 1 medical.

The USA has a very liberal view of colour vision - see the FAA website for details. Canada is similar and Australia has it's own regulations after a law suite by Dr Pape.

In short the ICAO has no definitave answers for CVD and a medical for a professional licence - I say professional licence as in JAA land it is a class 1 medical, but in the US you can fly on CPL with class 2.

The destinction between states is very different and you need to pinpoint where you want to fly and under which licence. I'm sure that when you can answer these questions we will be able to give you very specific answers.

In short there is no ICAO medical - each state will view it as its own and this will vary much between ICAO states. As I said you need to be specific where you want to fly and under which licence.

Congratulations on joining this forum and I wish you all the best in your future flying.

[audimatt]

Hey guys!

Once again its been a while since iv posted on here, just thought id touch base and say hi.

Doesnt seem to be any major leaps forward with the fight from what iv read so far which is what i expected given how annoying the caa are. I read a post of daniel, form argentina.... i assume you are cvd? you were asking about austrailia.

Have you done much reasearch into flying over there? iv done very little still, but it appears that going over and getting an "atpl" and flying there is a possibility, is there anyone on this forum who is from the uk, cvd and flying for an airline, or at least for money over there? Id really like to speak to you if you are. Theres just a minefeild of information which drives you mad trying to sort through it to find what you need...

Good luck everyone....

[audimatt]

it would be nice if they did!

[eyedoc]

Well the guy at the CAA isn't an AME or an ophthalmologist. He is an optician- kind of person you have your eyes tested by in the local shopping centre who then tries to sell you rip off glasses you don't want. Would much rather be told i have failed after having my eyes tested by a doctor who has studied at university and knows what they are looking at, thank you very much.

[eyedoc]

Call me a traditionalist, or even old fashioned, but I was around before the days nurses or spectacle sellers were allowed to call themselves healthcare professionals. There is some value in having a doctors do medical examinations as they will always have a greater understanding of what is wrong, and perhaps have the training to break bad news in a more emphathic manner.

[steve_uniacke]

Ok, so... for people following my post, here is some news...

went to the CAA and did the medical.

unfortunately failed, but hope is not lost. I passed everything except one condition: anisometropia (as expected) but found out that my alternating squint is not a problem due to the fact im used to it and no double vision ever occoured, or eyestrain, etc. (e.g. sufficient fusional reserves) So im not exploring the Laser eye surgery way of correcting the anisometropia (because my pre-operative refraction limits are ok)

Interesting to note that Anisometropia has no limits past the initial medical... (so seems a bit silly to be spending €2500 On it, but oh well, rules are rules)

so hopefully, 6 months to a year after that i'll have a class 1

*insert expressions of joy and excitement here*

So, anyone in a similar position to me (or with any doubt about passing a medical) i suggest you go to gatwick and just do one. yes its £310 but if you're seriously considering a career in aviation, its worth every penny just to clarify your individual case.

Steve

[Sailboat]

Has anyone had one of these in to the middle of their career (Transport Jet Captain) and still flying by FAA or Transport Canada medical standards? Or, does anyone know of someone flying with a substandard vision in one eye(and do you know what limitations that creates)? I have a ahem... 'friend' who is correctable in the right eye to a high standard (20/10 corrected and 20/40 uncorrected) but a left eye that is barely making 20/30 to 40 corrected now. It used to be 20/25-30 corrected and required some ophthalmologist's reports a long time ago to issue the medical. The North American standards seem to 20/30 corrected as the minimum. We're talking mainly about an injury at a young age to the left eye and its giving problems later in life.

[Kengineer-130]

Sorry if it has been asked before, but what are the eyesight requirements for an FAA class 1 medical ?

I have my JAA PPL(A), but I can only get a JAA class 2 medical with a specal deviation for my eyesight, as I am -11 diaopters and basically monocular to my right eye. The CAA have let me have a licence on the basis that I have yearly eye exams and obviously do the usual of carrying a spare pair of specs, and I think already having obtained my licence swayed them to the fact that I am safe to fly.

Now I obviously want to go commercial, but JAA/CAA regs deny my class 1, basically said there is no chance, :mad: ( how can I be safe to fly in the same airspace as everyone yet not safe to fly a bigger jet? :}) , so i am looking at going the FAA route....

Does anyone have the rules/regs to hand, as I have heard that as long as you are safe and correct to a decent level, even if you only have 1 eye you can obtain a SODA, or statement of demonstrated ability?

Could anyone shed any light on this please :ok:

[brakpanner]

Is it possible for me to obtain a class 1 medical - I currently fly on a class 2 med PPL I have a colour vision problem and also wear contacts +3.75 and +5.25, RESTRICTED TO VFR only - what are the chance ???
I have heard that i MAY be able to do this in the states, or possibly have my eyes corrected surgically.....Has anyone got any advise?

[Kengineer-130]

"FAA standards in the US are generally slightly more lenient than ours. Whether that is a good or bad thing from an air safety point of view is an ENTIRELY different subject . . . . . . ! !"

As regards to air safty, how many accidents are documented where vision has been a key factor? :confused:... Serious question.

i hold a full unrestricted JAA PPL with -11 diaopters and monocular vision, I had to have a retinal examination and a deviation on my licence, but if I am safe to fly then I am safe to fly, as confirmed by the CAA examiner....

I find it interesting how many people discriminate becuse you have a high prescription with no real knowledge of the real implications ( not aimed at you AMEandPPL) :ugh:

[AMEandPPL]

( not aimed at you AMEandPPL)

No offence taken, I assure you. My response was MAINLY aimed at the colour deficiency aspect of the original post, making it clear that that is not amenable to any surgical correction.

I probably understand this topic better than most AME's, having one eye which is less than 6/60 without correction, and the other which is nearly amblyopic due to a congenital cataract. I would certainly not get a class 1 because of these, but then I don't want one !
But I've had PPL and flown regularly and safely for last 25 years, without any problems or incidents.

how many accidents are documented where vision has been a key factor?

Good question, and I could not give you an answer or any figures on this.

[RavenII]

Everything depends on if you can correct your vision to 100%, even with 11 dioptres there is a chance to get a soda if you reach 100% with correction.

If you can't reach 100% you are in trouble, but it's still possible to get the soda.

I have only 3 Dioptres on one eye, but it can only be corrected to 95%(Amblyophia). They still gave me a soda for a first class medical.

Call the FAA in Oklahoma, they can help you setting up a medical check flight. I would also contact a FAA medical examiner first, there are plenty in Europe.

Good luck!!

[AMEandPPL]

Do you know where i can have one done?

Best place is probably the CAA medical department at Gatwick, if only because it is they who will ultimately decide whether you can be granted a class 1 or not. As far as I know they will do single items (such as colour vision) rather than having to submit for a full (and expensive ! ) initial class 1 medical.

[brakpanner]

Thank you .:) What about my vision is that a problem to gain a class1 ? my vision is 6/5 and 6/12 aided.

[Rugbyears]

I suggest you follow the evert trustworthy advice of AMEandPPL!:ok:

[27mm]

Went to the optician's to be tested prior to ordering new specs last week. The field of view test - the one where you stare at a red light and press a button each time you see a green light at random positions around it - was no problem for my right eye, but my left eye failed it. The optician then took a closer look and referred me to my GP, who has pushed me on to an Opthalmologist. No one at this stage is willing to tell me what might be the cause - have looked at Macular Degeneration, but discounted it, as it appears to affect central rather than peripheral vision; would welcome any educated guesses, or advice from fellow Ppruners with a similar condition......

[Mickey Kaye]

How old are you?

Go and see the Optom ask him/her what they think. Ask them to be honest with you. Explain the situation you are in. Would a private referral be prudent as it would expedite the time to see Ophthalmologist.

My experiences with Opticians is that by and large they are a help full sort.

[27mm]

Hi Mickey, I'm the wrong side of 50, so have been wearing bifocals to adjust for long-sightedness for about 8 years now. You're right, the opticians are generally helpful, but in this case I think he was genuinely unsure of what the cause of FOV reduction was. I'm waiting for the Opthalmologist apppointment letter and if necessary will go private. The look on my GP's face when I handed her the Optician's referral letter was priceless - she hadn't a clue and promptly dumped it in her "too difficult" tray while pointing me at the Opthalmologist.....

[TelBoy]

Have a look at this EASA doc and paragraphs 3.a.1 and 3.a.2

http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/r/doc/rule_ER_LIC_final.pdf

Will the EASA take into consideration real abilities??

Your comments on this would be very interesting.

[brakpanner]

Can someone please tell me what the requirement is for passing the class 1 med? Does it have to be 6/6 in each eye corrected if one wears glasses or contact lenses? (Tested in a monocular manner )
Or does it have to be 6/6 with both eyes tested ? (Tested in a binocular Manner) :ok:

[TelBoy]

At one time I do remember discussions about the CAA swapping FAA CPL and medical for CAA with the right ammount of experience. That died a death!!

The facts are that our CAA are the most acceptable of the JAA states for CVD - the rest seem to have their heads up their a*** about it. The EASA will take votes from all its members - not looking to good.

There was also talk I do beleve about PPL instuctors being able to take payment?? This will kill of the CPL and restricted class 1 and also probably sh** upon many instructors such as yourself.

Now is the time to act for ALL CVD pilots. We need to make our opinions known to the EASA and make sure that they know there WILL be legal actions (human rights etc) brought against them if we loose out.

Now where is that writting pad!!

[tornado617]

Hello.

I phoned up to book my initial class 1 today, and was surprised to find out that they require your eye details before the actual medical. Anyway, I gave them my details and they said that a optometrist would get in touch with me tomorrow. I assumed that standard guidelines would suggest whether I would meet/not meet the requirements. Is this normal? Its just that im a bit worried, because it was unexpected. My details are as follows:

Right Eye-Sphere= +3.5/Cylinder= -0.50/Axis= 113

Left Eye-Sphere= +3.0/ I dont have a cylinder or axis for my left eye.

Any help would be much appreciated!!! Thank you.

[AMEandPPL]

This is from the CAA medical department's own web site, where information about medical standards can be found :


Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight.

[ab33t]

I paid £80 about two years ago , give CAA a call and make an appointment .

[Tordan]

Hi all, I´ve browsed through the thread as well as the current national regulations for medical requirements for an ATCO applicant and may have a problem with my old nearsightedness.
I currently hold a UL-B license, Swedish. Not sure which class medical that required, class 2?
My problem is that prior to my laser eye surgery I had about -8 diopters. The surgery took place 10 years ago and while the result wasn´t perfect it has been stable since. I now easily meet the demands for application to ATCO training. What worries me is of course the pre-op demands of +5/-6. I totally respect stringent demands on current, corrected, eyesight but fail to see what my eyesight ten years ago has to do with anything since I can prove stability since then? Looking in the JAA manual it states that a fit assesment may be possible after 3-12 months under certain conditions, which to me contradicts the pre-op requirements. I do understand that it´s different ruleset, but haven´t been able to find similar info for the Swedish requirement that in turn is based on Eurocontrols documents, phew.

1. Can the medical examiner be flexible in such a case, especially given that I´m aiming to be sitting either in front of a monitor or up at a tower where there are no high G-loads, low air pressure or other factors that influence aircrew?
2. Does my previous license mean that I´m considered as a renewal with less stringent demands, even if it´s not the same class?
3. Looking at the requirements there may be a difference between refractive surgery and laser surgery. I initially thought they were the same, but it could be interpreted in such a way that refractive surgery is the type where you actully make small incissions in the eye as opposed to, well laser surgery. I´m just getting more confused the more I try to find facts...

I have been in contact with the people that held my interview and they basically said that I meet the requirements for application but that I should inform the medical examiner about my medical history. Didn´t get much enlightenment there...
I guess that in the end I´ll take the exam and see what the heck happens, lol.

Cheers from Sweden!

[Asdrius]

Hello,

Interesting information in this thread. I live in JAA member state and have problems with medical licence renewal. Maybe someone could answer some of my questions.

In real life I have no problems at all, and see all the colors just fine. The only time I don't see something is when I look at those Ishiara plates.
Several years ago I decided to go for class 2, made Ishiara test with some mistakes and was given Class 2 with daylight restrictions. Started flying for fun and enjoyed it very much.
Now when renewing my licence I had to do Ishiara again, and this time I did more mistakes, and the doctor doesnt want to renew my Class 2 as he says now I am color unsafe, even for flying in daylight :(

I am confused how can that be? Colour vision does not change with age, I am still of young age and had no illness'es recently.
Now I read here, that if you pass once you don't have to do it anymore. So maybe this second test was illegal? But I read JAR-FCL3 manual, that colour vision tests must be done on class 2 renewals if there are "indications". What are those indications?

[AMEandPPL]

Are there any limits how severe CVD has to be, before licence with VCL limitation is not given?

To the best of my knowledge the answer is "no" - at least in the UK, and other participating JAA states should be very similar. I have never heard of an OSL condition being applied because of CVD. Has any other AME heard of this ? Definitely worth challenging !

[Blinkz]

Does it mention which lanterns are acceptable?

[TelBoy]

Nice to see you back here Neo and I totally agree that real life testing is the way to go.

The CAD test is probably the worst thing to happen to CVD pilots worldwide, although might let more fly in JAA land. The CAA are pressing the ICAO to make it a world standard, which could see the FAA scrapping the Tower Signal test in favour of the CAD.

I did personally ask the CAA optician if he would accept a practical test based apon their own studies carried out at Farnborough. The answer was NO!! The CAA see practical testing as unreliable due to enviromental influences on the day. Quite true and this is why the FAA will alow one retest on the Tower Signal test should you fail so that a fair result can be obtained. This would seem only applicable in the medical section as I'm sure that the licencing section are still very much in favour of practical flight testing:).

Saftey must of course be of paramount concern and our flight tests MUST show that an applicant IS safe to preform the duties of the licence or rating sought. If he or she can demonstrate that - well fine!! I would welcome flight instructors and examiners comments on this.

Take the practical tests an airline pilot has taken.
PPL, Night, Multi, CPL, IR, Type Rating

As for the CAD test I must be the first to take the CAD test at Aviation House!! After failing all else they let me take the test and said they will keep my results on file and when and if the CAD is certified they will look at my results. So we will see if I am the first 'victim' of the CAD or the first sucess story.

I shall be writing to the EASA, ICAO and send copies to the CAA regarding loosing my UK class 1 with restrictions when the EASA take over, also worth a copy to my MP as it is a Euro 'thing'.

[AMEandPPL]

"clinical indication" - what´s that?

Basically it means if the examining doctor has any CLINICAL ( = medical ) reason to believe that a change has occurred, and that re-testing is therefore appropriate. There are parts of the medical examination where this is very right and proper. A good example would be measuring someone's peak flow rate if wheezing is heard in the lungs, or if a prolonged bout of coughing were to be mentioned. However, in the case of CV this will ALMOST NEVER be justified (see my post #796 of 3-6-08 ).

[Neo_RS14]

Thanks TelBoy, it's good to be back. I wouldn't desert my colour blind comrades at a time like this:ok:....colour blind, who even came up with that damn term...the bad press it gives us is a joke.

Yes, if the FAA were to abolish the tower signal test (even though it's been working fine trouble free for years) then we really are up the creek without a paddle. I can understand them replacing one of their CV tests with the CAD, and still leaving the option open to be tested at the airfield, but to completely abandone that system after all this time without any problem with the pilots who passed it, seems a bit ridiculous. I mean they allowed CVDs unrestricted medicals after passing for a reason, as they are believed to be safe. To suddenly reel in these priveleges, or to just stop offering the test at all seems completely unreasonable, it's taking a step back in time for the FAA surely?

But to be honest, I completely agree with you TelBoy, safety is paramount, and obviously we can all agree on that. I can see the person's point about environmental interference, but surely that can be factored in somehow, e.g. as you said the FAA allow one re-test. LGW is on the doorstep of aviation house too, admittedly it's a busy operation there, and it may be a bit much to expect the folks at the ATC to have to perform these tests for us, but even so, it would not be irrational to arrange a quick test at another airfield.

I'd just like to know why Tower signal testing is not appropriate for the JAA when it works succesfully in the States, what's the difference? They have a huge bustling aviation industry over there, and they are not suffering from the few CVD pilots that are working there professionally...we've not heard a peep from them. As I said, I take that person's point regarding environmental factors but it's not enough to cast out the idea of using the Tower singal test here when it works so well there. In my humble opinion, it demonstates that most pilots with CVD attempting to fly comercially, are actually able to do so safely, OTHERWISE we would have heard about it by now, or the system would have of been revoked.

I just wish I could put together some stats of pilots flying professionally based on a tower signal test pass, I think they would surely speak for themselves.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Neo
What avenues are available to you to appeal the the Reg's in the UK? We have the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. It was through this avenue that the Reg's were challenged and subsequently changed. IMO you need to use a process that is unbiased and one whose outcome's are be legally binding.

I think momentum is building for change although I also think at present it could go either way as far as ICAO is concerned. If another significant ICAO state comes on board with a system either similar to Australia and the US or something new, such as abolish the CV test, then I think the pendulum could well swing our way. The thing is legal precedents are set all the time. This one is just waiting to happen and while the CV thing worldwide is in such a mess with varying standards and authorities not able to get there crap in a pile the sooner it happens the more likely it is to succeed.

The world is a changing place. The UK could well be the one to do it but it will take more than one pilot to take it on and you will need legal counsel. Perhaps there is a lawyer specialising in aviation that would take it on on a "no win no pay" basis. It would make his/her career if they won.

Cheers

[katsogr]

Hello all,
I've been watching this part of the forum a year and half now as I'm sure many do without making a single post.

Now to what NEO said:


The UK could potentially be that nation, if that is the case. I mean we're currently the only state in JAA land allowing CVD deviations right? And if it were up to the UK alone, we would probably keep those deviations for good.


I'm not sure I understand well what you mean by "CVD deviation".
I live in Greece, I have a CVD and i also have an unrestricted JAA class 1 medical issued by the Hellenic CAA. It was not an easy task to get it but after many months of reaserch I fianally made it.

My story is definately a long one and I don't want to bother you with.My point is that Greece might be a country that could help. I know of at least 2 AME's that are very open minded persons and one of them used to be ( or still is) an FAA medical examiner. Especially the latter had told me that is in favour of signal light testing etc. The other one is writting about medical issues in a magazine for civil and general aviation.

We, or me, or whoever, might me able to inform them about the current situtation and how many people are affected. we could do that with a letter to the magazine and then maybe even more CVD's who don't know their options or rights help us somehow.

Well, just thoughts
c u all (or read you actually)

[Neo_RS14]

Hi Guys,

Well there are avenues there Soup Nazi, and there is one party of people from this forum whom are gathering together information for some type of legal challenge I believe, hopefully they will see our posts and see fit to comment here. But they have already spoke about it on previous pages in this thread.

Myself, I'm in no position to make any such challenge as of yet. But, I am more interested in the human rights aspect of this carry on....cold hard human rights. There is a Eurpoean Court of Human Rights, which caters for cases which exceed the jurisdiction of member states of the EU, this may well provide the platform for this debate.

Thanks for your information katsogr, it's great to hear that there are AME's out there who understand our plight from a professional viewpoint. It really is quite startling to think how we are in the twenty-first century, yet things are still able to be so ascew, with different countries asserting different approaches...some major countries liberalising, and the others tightening up:confused::ugh:...or trying to harmonise the more liberal countries with their own particular stance on things...

Look, we're either safe, or unsafe...CLEARY WE ARE SAFE, since countries with more liberal approaches do not suffer from any casualties/accidents relating to this relaxing of the regulations.

Ultimately I have faith that these regulations will be universally more forgiving for us, but it's just a matter of time...as someone somewhere is dead against relaxation of CVD regulations in commercial aviation, and they are obvisouly unwilling to confront the reality that it is not really a flight safety issue anymore. Shame that for the parties affected by the draconian rules, we will probably not able to go into our most preferred careers over this, whereas the children of the future probably won't suffer in this way. And the rulemakers/deciders, well it's just another topic in the boardroom to them, they remain unaffected by it on a personal basis, so what do they care.

Sorry for my somewhat negative tone.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Katsogr
Can you tell me a little about the process in Greece like;

What was the initial test they gave you and what did you have to do to convince them to issue you a Class 1?

Do the Regs there allow for a CVD pilot to be issued a clean class 1?

[tarmac-]

Sweet, so passed the test.. Not so hard afterall :)

[Neo_RS14]

:ok:That's great news Tarmac

Happy (con)trails!

[zacokeeffe]

Thanks guys for your helpful responses.

I will let you know how it goes when I get back.

Looks ominous but you never know!!!

[tornado617]

I have changed opticians a few times now, and am happy were I am. Im not sure whether the opticians I used when I was a child will still have my medical records/history, as I havent been to them for a very long time. They might have even closed down. Anyway, I have my initial class 1 very shortly, and was wondering whether or not to bring a brief history on my eyes. I dont mean resting a piece of paper on my eyes and walking into the examiner's room:}. Or could I??????????;)

What do you think? Thank you

[spc98075c]

Hello,

i am currently a 15 years old kid. I have find out that i have double vision recently, and the only way i could fix it is the do the surgery. Are there requirements that saying u will fail class 1 if u do an eye muscle surgery even i have fix the double vision problem?

[AMEandPPL]

Are there requirements that say you will fail a class 1 if you undergo eye muscle surgery ?

Overall, the answer to that question is probably "NO", but as usual there is too little information to give individual advice ( which is not
really to be recommended, anyway ! ).

Put in just a little effort yourself, and search for the information !
This very thread itself is a potent source of facts and ideas about vision
problems as they affect aviators.

More information here :

Vision | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=68&gid=1250)

though bear in mind this is the UK CAA - Hong Kong may differ subtly.

[neel_the_one]

I want to do a CAA Class 1 Medical before i undergo my JAA ATPL course but am slightly concerned about my eyesight.

My optician gave me the following results of my last check-up (about a year ago).

RIGHT
SPH: 1.25 (-)
CYL: 0.5 (-)
AXIS: 105

LEFT
SPH: 1.25 (-)
CYL: 0.5 (-)
AXIS: 65

I dont know if this enough to pass the eye part as the requirements also include having a 6/9 separetly or 6/6 with both eyes :S I dont have a clue about anything to do with eyesight/vision. I would just like to know if anyone in here knows if this is sufficient.

Thanks

[spc98075c]

thx for your reply. I actually had research through almost the whole internet... and i try to get someon to help to to ask an AME. I knoew doing the surgery will give me some disadvantages but if i don't do the surgery, i can't even fly at all :ugh::{ that's why i decide to o it

[C-Hutch]

Hi there, I'm a student pilot in South Africa trying to make it in the industry. I've been diagnosed with a red-green deficiency so i have to prove to the SACAA that i can see the relevant colours. I've heard of corrective lenses manufactured in the UK. The question is, can they help? I've contacted the manufacturer but they need me to come to the UK for tests. If you have any information regarding these i'd really appreciate hearing from you.

[Overdrive]

C-Hutch:-

Doing a quick dig on Goo-goo by term "x-chrom" reveals plenty to look at.

Some of it is rather negative in comparative testing I must say from a quick glance, though for me that wasn't so.

Anyway... good luck.

[Neo_RS14]

JAA don't permit such lenses and I can understand why to be honest. They'll get you through the tests, yes. Will they make you safer to fly an aeroplane? No. You're perfectly capable of doing that already; the science and statistics prove that. But hey, when did aviation ever let the facts get in the way of good old discriminatory legislation?


LOL :D

Well said Shunter.

I do recall reading of someone's account, who'd been overcome by the debilitating approach to mild CVD in their native country, so having dual nationality or something, moved to SA, and had no problem after some persistence. I guess the quoted text posted by Shunter would explain this then. I just don't know why some other parts of the world don't follow suit in light of the success of practical testing elsewhere...I just don't get it:ugh:

[stilton]

During my aviation medical exam every year I am asked to look into a 'binocular' type device, presented are a row of numbers and an arrow above these pointing down.

I am then asked to say which number the arrow is pointing towards.

What, precisely is this test for, or measure, anyone know ?

Oh, and what is it's name ?

[alphamikeecho]

From your description sounds like a 'Maddox wing'?

Science Museum - Home - Maddox wing test instrument, c 1920-1937. (http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/I026/10287592.aspx)

[AMEandPPL]

This is the device to which you are referring :

Science Museum - Home - Maddox wing test instrument, c 1920-1937. (http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/I026/10287592.aspx)

It's called a MADDOX WING (presumably after a Mr or Dr Maddox, but no other information ). I have one here, but it's rarely used nowadays.
I didn't realise, though, that it was old enough to be a museum exhibit !

In simple terms it checks eye-muscle balance. Very few people have two eyes aimed in EXACTLY the same direction at all times. But once the brain realises that the image reaching each eye is nearly the same it can automatically compensate by adjusting the aim so that the two images are fused. Otherwise there would be double-vision (diplopia). If the misalignment of the eyes is severe, then it's visible to others, and is known as a squint (strabismus). This device is intended to pick up degrees of misalignment much less than the obviously visible squint. Misalignment is the horizontal plane is known as exophoria or esophoria, and in the vertical plane is known as hyperphoria.

The way it works is simplicity itself. As explained above, if the images reaching each eye are similar then the brain can fuse them. This device, by the use of the screens between the eyepieces and the far end plate, just gives each eye something completely different to see.
Then the brain will not attempt to fuse them. Thus, if the white arrow is seen to be pointing at the white zero, then the person is orthophoric. If the white arrow is seen to point at the white six, then the person is mildly exophoric.

Very old technology, really !

Hope that helps ! Best wishes.

[stilton]

Could this instrument test for Vertigo in any way ?

[AMEandPPL]

Could this instrument test for vertigo in any way ?

Not really, I'm, afraid ! It's testing the balance of the muscles actually moving the eyes in their sockets.

Vertigo is a SYMPTOM (ie something the patient senses and reports, as against a SIGN which is something that an outsider such as a doctor can elicit independently).

Many lay people know there is an association between the symptom of vertigo and a sign called NYSTAGMUS, in which the eyes flick rapidly back and forth horizontally. But this is usually mediated in the Central Nervous System, not specifically in the eye muscles.

[stilton]

Thank you for the information.

[C-Hutch]

To all who responded to my questions, thanks. I've done the practical test but I'm still waiting for the panels decision. I don't know about else where, but in SA our CAA can seldom be described as quick and efficient... I continue to wait for their response (it's been 4 months already - they said maximum 3) :ugh:I'll be looking into the alternatives, just to keep myself informed... To everyone out there. . . Goodluck and keep fighting the good fight!

[Shunter]

They were certainly quick and efficient when I validated my license over there to do some flying on holiday! Guess that's a sample of 1 though...

I see you're in Stellenbosch. If you do end up coming over here for some bizarre reason make sure you call in for a case of Le Riche's finest before you jump on that plane and address it to Mr Shunter :)

[Overdrive]

Great result ST :ok:

[Apostel88]

Hello everyone,

like many people on this forum I intend to pursue a career as an airline pilot.
I have a question regarding the vision standards for the JAR class 1 medical. Although I do not exceed the vision limits, as issued on the homepage of the caa, I am worried because my dioptre values amount to -5 degrees on the right eye and -5.50 degrees on the left eye of short vision. I therefore have -1 degree of astigmatism. With these values I should not consider any problems in obtaining the medical, but I am close to the limit of -6 of short sight and I wonder if there are any airlines out there who set their own limits for flight crew selection. ( Lufthansa for instance sets a limit of -3 degrees for the initial selection of its cadets)
I would be very pleased if there is anyone out there who knows more on that issue and could tell a few words or even mention examples of individual airlines in or outside the UK

Many thanks in advance

[ST-EX]

I don't know the exact names of the lanterns I took at Gatwick-but it must have been Beynes and Holmes-wright(I think. I didn't ask at the time as I didn't realise I had a problem until they told me at the end of the testing that I'd failed!)
Yes, the CAA had already put on my licence and medical that I was restricted to daytime flights only. After sending my results from Spiez to the CAA, they sent me back my new licence and medical without restriction.
Good luck at city uni!

[Shunter]

Gatwick only have 2 lanterns: Holmes/Wright and Beynes.

[flyingsheep]

Hey all,

I am going to have my class 1 initial soon, i had my eye tested today and the results are, sphere -5.5, cyl + 2.5, Axis 85. I phoned up CAA, they said i am outside their limits, but there are other alternatives and the guy said he may be able to 'squeeze' me in. Just want to know are there any people out there had the same problem and what was the outcome?

Also any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks all

[planecrazy.eu]

I think the perscription values are far more flexable than the actual vision check itself...

What i mean by this is that I am within the limits, however, i cant read the 20/20 or 6/6 line, therefore i fail...

So, just because you can pass on paper, doesnt mean you may actually pass...

[planecrazy.eu]

I did it, and failed it...

Too close to the edge, I passed mono-vision, but not binocular vision, just a tad out...

Conclusion was... Ask my optician if its possible to read 20/20 or 6/6 with correction, and try not to exceed diopter limits...

Outcome of that... In progess...

[planecrazy.eu]

I wouldnt have surgery unless its 95% or more sure its going to do the trick...

Aa majority of surgery will improve vision, however, i was told if i had surgery i would "never" be able to see 20/20 with out without correction...

So i am hedging my bets that in the future, there will be a new procidure to correct my condition with better results...

I found that just because it says i can pass on paper, when you get in the test, you can still fail by not reading the required lines correct... Something i am working on as in the optician i can, but maybe nerves get the better of me with the CAA?

I have been told, by a surgery, that i can have surgery to decrease the astigmatism, that could inturn improve my vision enough to pass... Some type of slit it is, but i am not 100% sure how the CAA would view this.

[NurseToPilot]

I know that there is a vision thread however its absolutely huge and talks about everything so has become difficult to find stuff in!

I posted a while back about Lasik surgery to gain class one and almost all responses were "DONT DO IT" as the CAA do not approve.

My Prescription was:

RIGHT EYE
SPH +2.0
CYL -3.75
AXIS 22.5

LEFT EYE
SPH -1.25
CYL -0.25
AXIS 10

Everybody were commenting on the fact that the CAA would not allow me to pass a medical if i went ahead and did the Lasik

I was in a catch 22 situation where by if i did not have it done i would not get a medical based on the Px above and if i DID have it done I might still fail simply because I'd had it done!

When i had originally failed the medical due to the above px i asked about Lasik and was told 'off the record' that I could in theory have the right eye zapped in the hope it would bring me within limits but that was not guarantee that I would get my medical.

I went away depressed and upset that I had failed but tried to be positive that there must be something i could do about it.

I started my research - and in fact researched ALL aspects of laser refractive surgery in depth (took 13 months in all) and finally i decided to do it.

Everything was uncomplcated and successful from the optometrist point of view - now all i had to do was persuade the CAA that it was ok so i booked a medical class 1 appointment 3 months after surgery which was 26th June and nervously attended.

Thankfully and nice of the CAA they did my Class 1 as a RENEWAL as I'd already passed all the other tests last year except for the EYES.....

I was very nervous when the lady was testing my vision - it was the longest half an hour i've ever endured - she said I had PASSED one part of the eye test but due to lasik had to have a contrast sensitivity test as well which i had to wait an hour for the machine to warm up before i completed it.....

I'm pleased to say that i HAVE PASSED MY CLASS 1 MEDICAL and am now the holder of a JAA CLASS 1 CERTIFICATE with NO RESTRICTIONS / DEVIATIONS

MY NEW POST SURGERY PRESCRIPTION IS AS FOLLOWS

RIGHT EYE
SPH +0.00
CYL -0.50
AXIS 90

LEFT EYE
SPH +0.25
CYL +0.00
AXIS 0

And i achieve 6/5 Unaided bilateral on Snellens Chart or 6/6 RIGHT 6/5 LEFT if done individually however nobody would fly one eye closed!!!


I hope other readers find comfort and hope in my experience and contact me if they require further information

I am a NURSE (as my name here suggests) that worked in Ophthalmology prior to going for my medical therefore I've got an "all round" knowledge of eyes as well as my own personal research into REFRACTIVE SURGERY

PLEASE CONTACT ME if you want further advice.

Please note that it will be advice and information ONLY and not an encouragement to have it done. It is entirely up to the individual concerned whether they have it done or not and they must weigh up the pros and cons of all aspects of surgery as all surgery carries risks.

thanks

JONATHAN

[kewin444]

Hello everybody,
please, anybody can help me to solve my big problem??It's about the Jar-fcl 3 in Switzerland.
I'm a short-sighted person for -5.00 and
astigmatic for 0.25== -5.25.
I booked the first class examination in Switzerland because I readed on this forum somebody get through the exam until -6, like in UK.
Anybody can confirm it me???:ugh::ugh:
I'm very worried and I need your help,PLEASE!
2) Is it possible do not pass the exam only for 0.25??
Thank you very much!!

[docash1983]

Hi guys and girls,

My apologies for this rather lengthy post. I’ve recently been to the opticians and these are my results. The optometrist did explain the results too me but had an old copy of the CAA requirements. About two years ago I was 6/5 in both eyes however I was told I have become a little short sighted, and my vision has deteriorated in my right eye and I am worried this may become a problem for hopefully getting a class 1 in order to get onto an integrated course for which I am due to sit the interview and tests next month. My main concern is how the AME down at Gatwick will view these results, and how he/she will be likely to determine any further deterioration in the future regarding the issuing of a JAA Class 1, although the optometrist did state that he is hoping that it is unlikely to get any worse if at all. The results are as follows and I would appreciate your comments as I am wondering how the AME will see these results.

Unaided:

Right 6/9 -1

Left 6/6 -3

Unaided together overall 6/6 – 1

Aided:

6/5 Both left and Right

Below are the new CAA regulations so that you don’t have to go looking through the CAA website.

Your visual acuity (measured by your ability to see, in this case, lines of letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you need correction the refractive error (the amount of correction) must not exceed +5.00 dioptres of long sight or -6.00 dioptres of short sight. This is in the most ametropic meridian (taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The difference in correction between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres. Your optometrist will be able to explain these terms.

Thank-you very much for your comments.

Docash1983