The CTC Wings Scheme thread

[Zippy Monster]

This is an old thread. The more up to date one is here (http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/250640-ctc-wings-cadets-thread-part-2-a.html).

I am a little apprehensive as to whether or not I should go ahead with the application right now as I have read somewhere that CTC wings wants £160 to process your appliation????

If the 160 quid is your main worry, you have some serious research to do...

[XTR_Chris]

I know about the financial implications ie the costs but don't know when they will have to be paid.

And I was asking about the £160 because if it is true I need to make sure it is in my account now so I can continue with the application!

Chris

[Bealzebub]

XTR_Chris,

I am not sure if you are serious or not. Sometimes with new posters it is difficult to seperate the naive from the trolls. Assuming the former, and at the risk of pouring water on your fire, the one thing the world is not short of is low houred pilots. There are hundreds if not thousands of people who have spent eye watering sums of money on "pilot training" only to find themselves and, or their families sitting on mountains of debt, with very little realistic prospect of any meaningful aviation related employment in the near term future.

There are many good integrated flying schools who offer this sort of training programme, and I have little doubt that CTC is right up there with the best of them, however these are programmes that require a huge amount of financial commitment. If you apply for an assesment and are offered a place, you will be looking at an early requirement to stump up nearly £70,000 as a training bond, and around another £15,000 for training and living costs. In fact £85,000 to £100,000 would be a ballpark financial outlay for most forms of integrated training, be it CTC or another good provider.

Given the reality of the market, and the combined need to balance the fact they are a commercial company with the costs of providing the assesment, I would suggest that £160 is but a tiny drop in the ocean, if you are serious. If you are baulking at this stage, it would suggest that you are right to be apprehensive. I would suggest that you spend a good deal of time using these forums to research this subject in some serious depth. If you could place all the paper qualified, low houred pilots who have completed their basic commercial training but find themselves with no related employment, in a large field, you would be staggered at just how many are out there, and just how crowded that field is.

Those licences and ratings that have been expensively aquired are perishable commodities with absolutely no intrinsic worth. For each of them the clock starts ticking when they are issued. Along with the medical certificate, they all need to be expensively renewed (often with additional training) at annual intervals. Those who are lucky enough to be plucked from this crowded field, often have to finance additional ratings at significant cost to themselves.

If you have £80K - £100K to spend on something speculative, go for a Ferrari. If it doesn't satisfy, you can sell it and get most of your money back. That is not a luxury that a commercial pilots license will afford in many cases. Having said that, if it something you simply must do, then do it with your eyes open, and do it armed with common sense and knowledge.

Once again if the assesment were £1000, I could better understand your question. £160 is about what it costs me to take my kids to a theme park for a day. That would seem a very small price to pay to find out if you think you have the ability to complete the training course, they think you have the ability, and much more importantly you want to commit to such a serious investment with all the real and potential risks involved.

[XTR_Chris]

Thank you for the Info, and to clear the air yes I am deadly serious about going for this! I have got some flying hours under my belt and all be it not many but its a start!

Just to clarify, I was asking about the £160 to make sure this was true in order to make sure I have the funds available. If it wasn't true then there would be no point in me transferring the funds into my account.

Sorry if I come across as being a little naive, but this is simply because I am new to this world of information and everybody has got to start somewhere.

[Hezza]

XTR_Chris - exactly how much research have you done? And by research, I mean willing to spend £85,000.00 - eighty five thousand pounds - research.

When I last checked, the loan for the training must be secured on a property - do you have one of those? Being 20, it seems unlikely. If you do, are you willing to risk it for a slim chance of achieving that '15 year soppy dream'?

Do yourself a favour, and close the application form until you have become less excited, and spend the rest of the evening - no scrub that - week, reading these forums. I promise you your excitement will be dealt a large dose of cold hard reality....

If, after this has set in you are still excited about the prospect of spending £85,000 - eighty five thousand pounds - on a blue license (read - a blue license, not a job) then please continue.

This forum has, without question, the greatest source of information from all sides that any wannabe pilot could lay their hands on. I strongly urge you to use it.

For the record, I was once a starry eyed wannabe, keen to get on the next CTC flight to New Zealand. Now, I am still a wannabe, but one with a nice job and no debts who is still training for that nice blue license, but not with unrealistic expectations.
:)

[coffeewhiteone]

And there are many who are in their dream job turning their 'nice blue license' into a green one due to the CTC process. Yes it is a huge committment financially. I just hope that CTC are being realistic with the quality and quantity of cadets they are taking on board on the current cadet scheme.

[RJS1987]

Hi Guys,

I have read thread after thread and different numbers seem to be branded about.

1) So the bond of 69,000 this is paying for the course rather than a bond that is returned to you on completion of the course?

2) What are the other costs that are incurred throughout the course?

I am a little confused between paying the bond for the cadet course and the CTC Wings iCP where as I understand it you pay for the course yourself?

Thanks in advance for all the responses . . . .

[Air_One]

iCP and Wings are virtually the same these days.
You pay your 100K and hopefully, with a little luck, you get a job at the end.

(Wings course used to have big advantage that airline paid the TR - but not anymore it seems). Neither course is 'sponsored'. You pay for all the training yourself.

[George737-800]

I'm just wondering - would someone applying for the CTC cadet scheme who wears glasses be at any disadvantage?

[kwb911]

Not at all as long as you can get a class 1 medical

[George737-800]

Ok, thank you very much!

[systematically]

Yes in summary the CTC/OAA training system has become a money making venture in tough times.The quality of training has fallen dramatically and the companies are only training you to the bare minimums. They are using their past reputation of quality training, and high pass rates to entice more cadets. They cant afford the previous quality training (do some investigating they made losses in previous years). Eventually this will all fall over and the companies will go bust with your money.

[The flying bob]

blablablabla..... :ugh:

[stevop21]

I've read so many different versions of what happens when you finish the course. It looks like most cadets go to EZY flying the bus.
Do you still have to fork out 34K for TR?
Are most of the crew on flexicrew?
and the question that has caused the most debate
What are the prospects for a permanent position with EZY?

Thanks!

[The African Dude]

From an easyJet training captain on another thread, posted two days ago:

As a little aside, an announcement was made this morning that easyJet Swiss have just taken on permanently (on a very good deal) 8 of the flexicrew cadets. Also, we have sent out permanent offers of employment to 37 flexicrew pilots starting 1st Nov. Finally we have announced our intention to offer an unspecified number of permanent contracts in France and Italy on 1st Jan 2011. Every one of those job offers will be from flexicrew pilots.

[stevop21]

Thanks for that African Dude. I forgot about the other CTC Thread

[The flying bob]

Hi guys,
Good to hear things are improving... Can anyone give us any more details about these permanent contrats?? Are they identical to those always signed before flexicrew started or some new kind of low salary "permanent joke"?
Thanks

[HappyLittleRainCloud]

One of my friends recently graduated from CTC and has been offered one of these new jobs with Easyjet; however the pay is absolutely ridiculous!!! I don't see how he's going to be able to pay back his training costs in the near future! I'm going to CTC in a couple of weeks with the hope that in a year or so's time there might be more jobs around? Big gamble though... :sad:

[Tampicotb9]

I hear rumours that although permanent contracts will be offered to flexi cadets they are going to be on a performance basis rather than when people first started?

Could someone please elaborate....What do you meen when you say "Performance basis rather than when people first started??"

[Mr A.V.Onics]

djfingerscrossed - do you mean OAA are supplying eJ with cadets now too? I know there was talk of this a few months back but didn't CTC announce fairly recently on their website that they were supplying eJ with all their pilot needs for the next 5 years? Or have I taken the bait or just swung and missed there...?

[The African Dude]

I think CTC have used the term "preferred" supplier... but they are certainly not the only supplier...

[nickyboy007]

Do all successful CTC wings cadets , get a job offer in the end? Even if the wait is over a year or so ?

[turbine100]

Why would someone want to pay all that money to CTC and then get a bad contract with EZY that perhaps pays poorly based on some forum comments and not be able to live due if loans have to be repaid.

Its quite amazing

[The African Dude]

Well, making that choice before handing over the cash is a lot more straightforward than making it afterwards, that is very true! ;)

The permanent contracts with easy haven't been too awful considering we're <1000h experience in most cases - easy Swiss in particular have offered quite good deals indeed.

Nevertheless, meeting basic living costs during the initial 8 months with loan repayments to make is not easy (excuse the pun) unless you've got well-lined pockets, which, after paying for part of the type rating, practically none of us have.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I had a chat about the permanent contract issue with a balpa rep I flew with last week, and he said that basically the pool of flexicrew pilots ezy now has flying for them are viewed (by ezy, not by their colleagues) as contract pilots and therefore a further stage of selection is required to offer permanent employment. I think that is completely unfair as many of these guys have been flying with us for a few summers now and if they weren't up to the task they would have been binned a while ago. The balpa rep also told me there are some cadets the company does not want to employ for reasons of personality/performance and therefore this seems like a way of picking who they do want to keep.

It should be a fair and transparent process to offer permanent positions, ie date of joining but of course this is easyjet, and I afraid when you do get here from a ctc scheme you will find out it isn't always as rosy as all those videos they show you at selection/during training suggest it is.

[d41xcs]

why should easyjet (or any company for that matter) offer a permanent job to someone who has struggled through training and inevitably cost them more to train than someone who hasnt had performance issues? sounds perfectly reasonable...unless of course, you're the person with the performance issues.

[HappyLittleRainCloud]

I know some of you have touched on the matter of the 'bond' that is payable in instalments during the course, but what I don't understand, and what i don't think CTC make very clear is the 'bond repayment' ... they talk on their website and on interview day about the £60 something thousand bond that will be repaid once the cadet gets placed in an airline and starts working??? That apparently tops up the salary?? I don't really understand what this is?? Can anyone enlighten me please?:O

[Bealzebub]

I will try.

On their cadet courses they require a bond deposit of around £69,000. This is in addition to a total outlay of roughly another £10,000 for a foundation course and various insurances. On top of this there is a requirement for the candidates to provide for their own living costs (excluding accomodation which is already included in the above sum.) The bond is payable in defined instalments over a period of some 14 months. This bond is either provided by the candidate directly from their own resources or via a secured loan through a commercial bank.

As a "bond" it serves two purposes. It provides the underwrite for the costs of the integrated training programme. In other words if there is no employment offered or accepted at the end of the training course, or if the employment is offered on terms that do not include "bond transfer" (for example, the candidate obtains their own employment, or accepts an offer where the company does not assume the bond, or there is simply no employment to be offered,) then the bond is converted into the training providers costs of providing that training.

If the candidate is succesfully placed with a partner airline that does recognise the bond facility, then the successful candidate would be transferred to the partner airline usually on a six month without prejudice transfer where the airline provides the candidate with a type rating and a short term period of line flying. In the past these transfers have often been on the basis of no salary other than expenses for the initial period, although the training provider has returned around £1000 a month from the bond security during this phase.

During better economic conditions, many (but not all) of these placed candidates were kept on by the partner airliners, who (presumably) paid the provider for their services and as part of that package, then received the remainder of the candidates "bond" to then provide their own security. This remaining sum was repaid to the new cadet pilot in monthly sums over an agreed period, in addition to the cadet pilots entry level salary.

The advantages of this arrangement over more conventional integrated courses are that in certain circumstances it does provide an opportunity for the bulk of the ab-initio training costs to be repaid to the candidate, although this is by no means a surety. It also may provide an opportunity for the candidate to be placed in an airline career with low levels of experience, although balanced in some measure by airline orientated training regimes and facilities. For the partner airline it has the advantage of recruiting low hour cadet pilots with little financial risk and outlay, during a fixed probationary period. These pilots also have a consistent and recognised training history that aids in selection. If offered an employment contract subsequent to the initial period, there is a monetary bond that provides security to the employer, and also supplements the real costs of remuneration to the employee.

There are also limited protections in place for possible repayment of the bonded amount up to a defined ceiling (£40,000 I believe) should the candidate fail to the complete the training for specific reasons and in defined circumstances.

In summary, you may get the monetary sum of this bond repaid back to you over a period of some years, thereby reducing your ab-initio bill for training if all goes well. That is by no means guaranteed though, and it should be clearly understood that the bond is in effect the cost of the training provided, that will be converted into the price paid by you should the bond not be assumed for whatever reason after the course has been completed.

[SMOOTHFLIER]

DO NOT GET FOOLED BY THIS!

THE "BOND" IS SIMPLY A LOAN THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN OUT IN YOUR NAME TO PAY FOR THE TRAINING.
iF YOU ARE NOT PLACED IN AN AIRLINE OR ARE IN A HOLDING POOL FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME YOU WILL BE RESPOSIBLE FOR THE MONTHLY REPAYMENTS IF YOU ARE FLYING OR NOT.

THE BANK VIEWS IT MERELY AS A LOAN IN YOUR NAME WHICH YOU MUST REPAY.
THIS TERM BOND IS INTENDED TO CONFUSE AND IMPLIES THAT EMPLOYMENT IS GUARANTEED WHICH OF COURSE IT ISNT.

[Bealzebub]

I think you may have left your "Caps Lock" switched on.

I believe you will find the bond is what I have already described it as. It isn't a loan, although you may need to enter into a loan agreement in order to secure the money for it. It is intended to cover your training costs in the event that it is not picked up by a potential employer at the end of the course. The bond can be provided by any monetary vehicle (such as your savings, or somebody elses savings) not simply a loan.

I am not confused by the term, although you seem to be. I cannot see that there is any guarantee specified, nor would it seem intended to confuse anybody with sufficient wit to read it.

It is a commercial agreement with attendant risks, but it comes with some limited safeguards and the possibility of some beneficial prospect. The benefits and drawbacks should properly be weighed up against what else is available in the marketplace, and any decision should rely on careful and studied research.

[Portside]

HappyLittleRainCloud, simpler vesion.

YOU GET THE LOAN, YOU AGREE TO PAYBACK THE LOAN OVER 7 YEARS, STARTING FROM WHEN YOUR TRAINING SHOULD BE COMPLETE! (secured against assets).;)
CTC DRAW MONIES DOWN FROM YOUR LOAN, OVER 14 MONTHS APPROX`.:cool:
AFTER 18 MONTHS, IF YOU COMPLETE YOUR TRAINING YOU THEN HAVE AN fATPL.;)
CTC THEN TRY TO PLACE YOU ON A P2F, BASES. IF PLACED WITH A CERTAIN AIRLINE YOU MAY HAVE TO BORROW ANOTHER £30k FROM THE CERTAIN AIRLINE FOR YOUR TR.:bored:
YOU THEN RECEIVE THREATS FROM THE BANK FOR MONTHLY REPAYMENTS, WHICH YOU CANNOT FURNISH! THE AIRLINE THEN LAY YOU OFF FOR THE WINTER.:\
CTC THEN OFFER SWIMMING TRUNKS AND A SNORKEL, FOR AN UNDISCLOSED LENGTH OF ATTRITIONAL TIME!:mad:

BEAZLBUB,
YOUR INFORMATION IS OUT OF DATE! WAS CORRECT 2 YEARS AGO!

[Bealzebub]

Why is it two years out of date?

The only significant differences that I can see prevailing two years ago, were that unsecured loans were often available for these courses, and the global economic markets had yet to start melting.

Loose credit markets, and expansions in relevant sectors of the market, enabled these programmes to attract unsecured lending, coupled with a high likelihood of career placement with partner airlines at the end of the training. However there was always a risk, and the terms and conditions of contract never provided for a "guarantee" that obviated that risk. Unsecured lending, didn't mean unenforceable or unrecoverable lending either.

When the recession bit hard, those partner airlines not only stopped their input from these programmes, but they also made swingeing cuts to the terms and conditions of their existing employees. Many made redundancies, and some went out of business. Credit markets dried up and unsecure credit for what had now become a highly risky endeavour, became a thing of the past.

For a commercial training provider with hundreds of people in the pipeline what were they supposed to do? The terms of contract stated that there were no guarantees of placement. The airlines were under absolutely no compulsion to provide employment where none existed. The whole supply line simply backed up with nobody taking that supply any more.

In fairness, the company apparantly went out and negotiated whatever opportunities it could find in a almost moribund marketplace. The "flexicrew" placements it obtained (and I assume you were alluding to,) were significantly less attractive or enticing than the prospects that had prevailed previously, but in a market where highly experienced type rated pilots were sitting at home with no relevant employment, they were something where otherwise there would have been nothing.

Many of the previous partner airlines are still in existence, and as their own business starts to improve, will in all likelihood start to intake recruits once again. The terms may or may not change depending on the conditions prevailing at that time, but the prospect for future "bond transfer" still exists.

This programme, even without the job placements, is broadly no more expensive than similar integrated training provision from the other major schools. No matter what your views on "flexicrew" or similar schemes, the truth is that they have recently been the only games in town, and if airline flying still remains the end goal for these low hour candidates, then this has still been one of the primary routes to that goal.

[Portside]

Beazelbub,
100% agree.

The training however, is of the highest standard! That has never been in question.

[The flying bob]

Smooth flyer is absolutely right BUT if the cost is huge the job prospect is still very good.
You will not find any other Integrated program that offers all its trainees such a massive opportunity.
and the training standards are simply amazing!

[The Red Knight]

Can anyone give me some info on the ATP scheme. Cost, training, and prospects etc? Thanks in advance.:ok:

[Cows getting bigger]

Trying to keep the Caps Lock off, I think a simpleton's view is required (and I'm a simpleton). :)

Call it what you will, the financial risk involved in entering flying training is always held by the student pilot. Any loan/bond is held against his/her name. All CTC (and all other flying schools) promise is that:

a. They will train you to a particular standard.
b. If you attain that standard they will try and place you with an airline.
c. They will take your money regardless of the outcome of b.

Cadetship, flexicrew, Wings, ATP, bond - it all means the same and the bottom line is are you willing to take that risk?

In a previous existence I would often be required to make a SWOT analysis.

Strengths
Weaknesses
Opportunities
Threats

I would recommend that each potential fATPL candidate does something similar when looking at each and every training program. Undoubtedly, some will turn out to be more attractive than others.

[HappyLittleRainCloud]

:\ Thank you all for your views … Obviously anyone paying that amount of money for something has to think twice, three times, and the rest. I start my training in November and am very fortunate that my family have contributed slightly towards the cost of the bond, so the wallet pressure is slightly less for the moment… Here's hoping that EJ etc… will be in need of some pilots in a couple of years time! :p

[Tonic Please]

I have just read the last 10 pages of this thread. I have a burning question...

Why not just take out a loan of £25,000, go to the USA or Canada (where I did my PPL for £3,000 + cheap hour building), get the JAA course (or convert an FAA/Transport Canada one - still going to be cheaper than the £69,000 you lot are talking about!) and then just come back to England and apply for a job?

I don't understand why you lot need to spend £69,000 and be in a huff about jobs when you could go abroad, get your CPL Multi IFR plus a few hours, do your ATPLs whilst flying, come back with 300-400 hours and apply to an airline?

I'm not being sarcastic; I generally want to know why you don't just do that?

If an airline likes you, won't they train you on the Airbus and take it from your salary for the following 5 years?

That way, you only spend around £25,000 abroad, and have £45,000 left over!

Looking forward to some insights since I don't understand why you all care to spend £70,000. Even if you had to pay for your own type rating on top of the £25,000 from being abroad, it still won't total £70,000!

[Bealzebub]

Because when you come back to England and apply for a job, you end up with a lot of rejection letters or no response at all. This is because most airlines have no burning need for people with 300-400 hours. Of those that do, it is usually as a result of a cadet programme that is contracted to or affilated with one of these Integrated training providers.

With a couple of thousand hours of verifiable turboprop / jet, experience to your credit, you may well satisfy the basic qualification criteria for most airlines direct entry protocols, but a couple of hundred hours of Cessna time from the cheapest overseas "puppy farm" to be found, isn't likely to excite much interest at this level. That isn't to say that this method is unsuitable for an airline career at some point, but for airlines with cadet programmes, they are not usually interested in somebody rolling up at the door with minimum experience aquired, that they (the airlines) haven't themselves had an involvement with.

[turbine100]

If the likes of CTC / Oxford are contracted to airlines to supply low houred pilots. Would'nt this be discriminatory, selective and illegal under UK laws as the roles are not being fully advertised? Assume if it were, BALPA may have done something, perhaps its not :)

Does anyone know the latested regarding Flexicrew? I understand you can pay for a TR and enter the Flexicrew hold. Anyone done this, did it work or was it a deep hold pool, few months work and then nothing.

[Bealzebub]

Yes, but you make the common mistake of assuming that the word "discriminate" only has negative or illegal connotations, when in fact there are a number of defined meanings. For example we all discriminate everyday in almost every choice we make.

If a company chooses a contractor it will in all likelihood be discriminatory in its choice. That discrimination is however neither illegal or adverse other than perhaps in an individuals perception.

Life isn't fair.

[lordlozz]

Does anyone else wonder why OAA offer a skills protection plan for all costs incurred on the intrigrated course and CTC only offer 40k?

[Maverick83]

Do CTC cadets go through a selection process before joining Easyjet as flexicrew?

[Mr A.V.Onics]

No, the CTC selection process has long been deemed satisfactory for easyJet. Certainly for the last 2 years or so. Don't know if that will change in the next few months?

[R T Jones]

That is correct, no further selection process required for working under flexicrew once you have passed the initial CTC selection process. They are conducting interviews and group exercises for permanent contracts, not sure on the details though.

[SW1]

Just wanted to know how much are these CTC cadets paying for the priveledge of flying for Easyjet? I think regarding the selection ofr Easy, it makes no difference to them. You pay your money, they give you the type rating and if youre no good, they can bin you at anytime. If your are a decent pilot with the personality as well, I think a temporary contract would be offered. Seems that everyone I know at CTC who recently finished have start dates ranging from January to March...

[PILOTPIRX]

Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum and becoming a pilot has not always been my dream. So I am completely new to the topic.
I wanted to ask you few questions in regards.

First of all is CTC Wings the only reasonable training programme? Are there no other places where one could learn how to fly?

My other question is more about the industry - I will be going to my phase 2 and 3 next week. How can I broaden my knowledge about industry?

Many thanks

[flightless_bird]

I am new to the forum and becoming a pilot has not always been my dream. So I am completely new to the topic.
I wanted to ask you few questions in regards.

First of all is CTC Wings the only reasonable training programme? Are there no other places where one could learn how to fly?

My other question is more about the industry - I will be going to my phase 2 and 3 next week. How can I broaden my knowledge about industry?



There are indeed other places where one could learn to fly other than CTC.

There are other integrated course (a course where you basically do all your training at once in one go) providers, perhaps the most well known being Oxford Aviation and Flight Training Europe (although there are others). The advantage with doing one of these courses is that some airlines have relationships with the training providers meaning that it is possible--but not guaranteed--that once you finish you may end up contracting for one of these airlines so it may give you a quick route into the right hand seat of a turboprop or jet. The disadvantage of this route is the cost, circa £100,000 by the time you've funded part of your type rating as well as well as the fact that you miss out on the fun flying (twins around the Scottish Islands etc or instructing).

The other option is the modular route where you can do your training where and when you choose to (and can afford to). This does not preclude you from doing it all in one hit though. It can be done at your nearest flight school, although some are definitely better than others. The advantage of this route is it is much cheaper, circa £40,000. The disadvantage is that once you've finished no one will find you a job but yourself and you certainly will not be able to go straight into the right hand seat of an international carrier.

Have a look on the web and also check out the jobs pages on the airline websites to see what's on offer there. Flybe are reknown for offering good sponsorship deals for future pilots.

With regards to finding out more about the industry, I was going to say read Flight International weekly but given you've only got a week it might be a bit too late. Any other suggestions anyone?...

[ribena]

To any guys and girls who get caught up the spin that is CTC (same probably goes for any high cost secured loan training provider) is the only way forward please work out your income and expenditure before signing over 100k.

I now know 8 ex-cadets that have now gone bankrupt! Most of these are working for easyJet under flexicrew. And these are the ones I know about! These are people who went under recently (last 1-7 months ago), not 2 years ago!

Or at least ask CTC at their next open day how many people are defaulting on their loan? The last rumor (it was just hearsay in the crew-room) I heard was that one of the director's was saying that NOBODY had even defaulted! :=

If the courts don't think you have enough income to survive on the current pay deal then why would people risk their or their parents houses! It is bad enough dealing with banks when you are arguing over an unsecured loan.

I don't want to put anybody off a flying career but I couldn't recommend handing over so much money in one go.

There are better options out there than CTC

If it helps just one person out there, here are some rough figures for someone that is single and living in a very small flat not in London:

Loan repayments: 1200 a month (With V low APR at the minute)
Rent: 550
Council Tax: 100
Phone:30
Food:190
TV:12
BALPA:10
Car Servicing:20
License Insurance: 22
Fuel:200
AA Cover: 15
Home Insurance: 17
Internet:20 (Could get it cheaper but remember on flexicrew you have 1 months notice until you may have to move)
Clothing 30
Car Insurance (Varies but mine is about 50)
Medical Class 1: 20
Hairdressing:15
Precipitations 8
Dentist:10
Water: 17
Medical Insurance: 7 (Have a close look at the flexicrew cover!)
Socilaising: 50 (I'm guessing that going out once a month would be in your mind - after all I can't be the only one who went into flying to impress the girls - hasn't worked of course) :O
Holiday: 25 (One 300 holiday a year - won't get you much but it is a holiday)
Electric/Heating 40-80


So all in all, for somebody with a Student Loan without calculating any extra loans for a type rating you would need to be earning a starting salary of more than £49000 just to keep yourself from ending up in court! (£44000 with out Student Loan).

I'm sorry but the numbers just don't add up at the minute - and this is before the interest rates go up. (I'm not an economist but I am sure that they will over the next 7 years!)

Even if you maxed out at 900 hrs a year, every year you will only be earning £43000 with flexicrew. Even CTC don't think you will be averaging that!

But you may be thinking by the time I get there I will go straight into easy full time. In which case your starting salary will be about £39000 including sector pay.

Of course, this doesn't include deposits for rent etc and all those other one off payments such as presents/uniforms/food/Christmas whilst at training days in Luton etc.

And one last thing, lets hope you finish on time as 8 months on 1200 a month before you start getting paid doesn't do very far.

Anyhow, for what is worth. The instructors I had at CTC were V good. I have huge respect for them. However, I can't recommend CTC as a school.

On a side note, I was talking to a EZY Trainer recently in Burgess Hill when I was having my Sim and he was saying that there was real concern over the quality of the recent cadets from CTC. (This was not about the cadet's potential ability but on how and what they have or not have been taught on the TR).

I only mention this as if CTC ever loose the contract were would all these cadets go.....?

[PILOTPIRX]

Thank you kindly for the answers xx

[Tekor Bali]

Does anyone has some news about the ATP program for pilots already in possession of ATPL?
Opportunity to be called after the course AQC?
Which are the partner companies of CTC for employment opportunities?Only Easyjet?
Thank you

[JamieBellamy]

Hi all I'm just trying to find out more info on selection. The first post in this thread refers to an "original thread" on stage 2. Would anyone be kind enough to point me in the right direction of said thread :)

Thank you!

[G-TD]

Here you go:

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/250640-ctc-wings-cadets-thread-part-2-a.html#post2943553

Regards