From Zero to Forty Five - my PPL Diary

[mazzy1026]

Welcome to my PPL diary. This will be my daily/weekly record of how my PPL is going. Today, 18/07/2004 was my first lesson in a Piper Tomahawk at Ravenair, Liverpool John Lennon Airport. The purpose of this on my behalf, is to record what I think is a great achievement. The reason why I am putting it on PPRUNE is for the benefit of others, whether it be pure enjoyable reading, or a good advice/reference. This isn’t a list of all the social struggles towards getting my PPL, I will not be talking about financial struggles, problems, babysitting, getting to work etc, it is purely a note of my progress. I hope you enjoy reading it, as I am aware that there are a few other posts of this nature.

HOUR 1

Flight time 0915. My new instructor is a real nice guy, he takes me through the membership forms and procedures etc, and before I know it, we are walking to the apron to get in the aircraft. I am a pretty big fella, 17 stone, 6ft 2 etc, so upon looking at the Tomahawk, I am concerned, however, upon getting settled in the seat (it wasn’t as big a struggle getting in as I thought) I actually realised that it is rather roomy, certainly tonnes of space for me, and as there are no back seats, I can move the seat quite far back. This is fear number 1 overcome!

I already like the way he is teaching me, he doesn’t sit around for hours explaining every button and dial, he simply goes through the checks, with a quick explanation of each one, shows me all the basic instruments, starts her up (explaining along the way) and before I know it, he is letting me taxi the aircraft to the holding point. I am feeling great at this point, so much responsibility at such an early stage! (sorry about that)!

I can here him talking to ATC and can understand a few phrases, as I have gone over the RT section of Air Law a few times. He says “Ok you can take off – see the airspeed indicator? When that gets to 60 kts, pull back nice and gently on the controls and the aircraft will smoothly rise off the ground. Keep the airspeed at around 70 kts (or thereabouts) and let her climb”. At this point, was the best feeling so far. Here I am, first lesson and I am taking off !

He went through the basic principles, basic handling, lateral axis etc then power, carburettor icing, mixture control, flaps, air speed, rudder pedals etc. he asked me if I had done any flying before, which I said yes to as I was an air cadet. I had about 10-15 hours on the bulldog and various gliders, so it was very professional of him as he explained to me the needle on the rate of ascent/descent with ease as he assumed I already knew a bit about it, which luckily I did. His level of teaching seemed to fit in perfect with what I already knew/didn’t know. So now I am thinking I have a great instructor whom I will get along well with.

We done a lot of basic handling, south of the airfield (as this is where most of the training takes place) over Wrexham (not directly over) then flew around, North back through Malpas, Tilston etc, where we had a great view of 2 castles (sorry cant remember the names).

Then into the approach phase, another aircraft to our left who was on approach, had given an incorrect position which meant he caused a bit of upset as we nearly had to make an orbit to let him sort himself out. Apart from that, the landing was excellent, very smooth (the instructor landed the aircraft). So at this point I have an overwhelming feeling of happiness, knowing I am one step closer. I even met a chap in the waiting room who has about 35 hours, who was actually another pruner! I gave him my nickname so he can PM me. It is a small world!

So now I am booked in for Saturday and simply cannot wait. This is the start of a beautiful thing! I will write back next week with hour number 2.

[any edits are for typo's]

[LowNSlow]

Keep it coming mazzy, it looks like it could become a very useful reference tool for otheres going through the same experiences.

[Fujiflyer]

mazzy, excellent informative detail, I'm sure if you are able to keep the thread updated then it will be very useful to many.

Good luck,

Fuji :ok: :ok:

[BRL]

Brilliant post Mazz, there has been a lack of student issues on the forum lately, this is just what we need.
Best of luck with your training mate. :)
Brl.

[mazzy1026]

Thanks loads guys for your great encouragement! It may take a while to complete, as at the moment I am aiming for a lesson a week, and it may get quite big, but as long as people wanna see it, I will carry on writing it !

Cheers all :ok:

Lee :D :D :D

[Gertrude the Wombat]

there has been a lack of student issues on the forum lately Now, let me guess, the treatment of the last person to post a student diary couldn't possibly have discouraged others, perhaps?

[Monocock]

Go for it mate....

Just don't talk about the colour of your headsets!!

[Whirlybird]

Crikey! Give us a break. What next?

Who cares, you ask. Lots of people. Those thinking of doing their PPL. Those doing it, who may feel very isolated at times. Those who've done it, and just like hearing others' detailed accounts. Instructors, since it may show different ways of teaching things and how students react. And for those who don't like it, there's a simple solution, don't click on it.

mazzy,
I think this is a great idea, and I'm all for it; thankyou. But having done several "live" diary threads myself, there are a few things maybe you should know. Your flying life is about to become public property. That's fine when it's all going well, but what about when you find something really difficult, when the going gets tough, when you screw up and wish you'd never started? Unless you're very lucky, that will happen at some point. Will you share it with the world? How will you feel about that? Also, although a lot of people may like what you're doing, some won't...as has started already. Some will hate you for it, for whatever reason. Do you want that, on top of doing a very difficult course?

This is all worth thinking about. Personally, I found at some point that I was getting too well known, and that as a result there were people who tried to shoot me down the moment I stuck my head above the parapet...they seemed to be just waiting for me to screw up! Which is why I didn't post for a week or so, and have eased off a bit since then (OK, so none of you noticed. :) )

Of course, the other side is that you'll get loads of advice and support. I think PPRuNe is wonderful, and I doubt if I'd have got where I have aviation-wise without it. But once you start getting known - and you will, if you keep up this thread - there is, or can be, this other side to it. Ask pink aviator about that, and ask...well, not for me to say, but quite a few people. And I just felt that you should know about it.

Sorry for using up so much bandwidth on your thread; let me know if you want this deleted and I will...I nearly pm-ed you instead, but I felt that it was worth saying in public too. Especially after QSK's comment, so early on. :(

[mazzy1026]

Whirly

Thankyou for your post - I appreciate your thoughts and advice - of which I will consider dearly. (Absolutely no need to delete it :ok: )

As for those who wish to "shoot" you or me down for trying to do something good then the simple phrase stands, as Whirly correctly stated:

And for those who don't like it, there's a simple solution, don't click on it.

It's as simple as that - there are thousands of threads out there, some which may get on your nerves, and others which make you feel great in the day - if you dont like it just dont read it ! I am not trying to make any enemies, nor am I trying to gain any extra buddies !

As for your comments regarding when something goes wrong. Well I had thought of that possibility but like you said, it is very rare that someone will get through it without problems, and if I can document my problems and hurdles along the way, then it may help others. Whether people read it for; advice, humour, out of sheer boredom or whatever, as long as it is read without spite is all I care about. Whats the point in bringing someone down for making a note of their achievements?

I hope this remains a good thread and thankyou for the 5 star.

Best wishes

Lee

[Deano777]

Go for it Mazzy

This is your forum as much as theirs, you have as much right to post here as anyone else, its really good to hear how people are progressing, the trials, the tribulations, the ups and downs etc, ignore them, they'll go away

Keep it up mate

Dean

[Obs cop]

Mazzy,

In my little world, there is more knowledge in people's heads than you could ever read in books. With this in mind I figure we learn most in one of 3 ways. Firstly by instruction, secondly by personal experience and thirdly from others experience.

Your thread is the latter and so warts and all should make for an informative read, but more importantly you may make some mistakes that other's haven't. The whole joy of flying is that it is so dynamic it can never really be fully mastered and there is always something to learn.

Keep it coming:ok:

Oh, and it can also serve as a form of revision notes for you to reflect on in the stickier stages.

Regards

Obs cop

[Peeking Duck]

GFI Mazzy;

Reminds me of when I did my flying instructors rating in 1986 with Dennis Dickenson at CATS.

The North West and North Wales are some of the most beautiful parts of the UK to fly.

Even though Liverpool Airport is based on an estuary it has one of the best weather records of any airport in the UK, which is why Data Post based their operation there.

Not many Students get to learn at an international Airport, that is minutes away from total uncontrolled airspace.

Enjoy!

[mazzy1026]

Yes they were also some of the reasons which helped me decide to fly from Liverpool :ok:

[Peeking Duck]

Is Cheshire Airtraining still there? and at Raven Air

Clare Pollard?
Peter Marsden?


Flew into to RAF Woodvale last month, which is were I intructed for a good many years. It was good to fly around the area again, haven't done that for a long time.

Based DOWN SARF! now.

Good Luck

[mazzy1026]

Havent heard of those names yet i'm afraid but Ravenair is the trading name for Cheshire Flying Services. The hangar next door is Liverpool Flying School too.

I flew lots from Woodvale when I was a cadet in the Bulldog's - what great times !

Cheers

Lee

[magpienja]

Looking forwards to reading how you go on mazzy, keep it up.

Nick in cheshire.

[BRL]

GtW My honourable friend...... The lack of student input on our forum stems from before the PA thrad. We used to have, about two years ago quite a few students posting all kinds on here all the time but hardly anything since.

Pinks thread came and was massive. We all know that, you just had to look at the 'hits' it got, constantly a few hundred a day, easy. Since then your comment may be valid but I would like to see much more of students posting questions here, not only for their benefit, but for others in the same boat too. The amount of people who just read her thread and have never posted on pprune is amazing, PA has had numerous e-mails etc from people spurred on by her thread.

Overall though, I would like to see much more input from students than there is now and Mazzys post is a great start. Again, as Whirly stated, you(!) dont have to read it so why bother clicking on it then moaning about it..!!

For those who don't like this kind of thread, take the advice just given. I am right behind this thread all the way and as soon as someone posts something negative like what was posted this morning, then it will be deleted so don't bother wasting your time.

Keep posting Mazz' and best of luck with it. :ok:

[mazzy1026]

Regarding the last major thread (say nor more) of this nature - I didnt read it, nor get a chance to. It was in full flow roughly just after I registered.

I understand that my post may trigger some reincarnation (however that may be) but this is by no intention. I want to show how serious I am about my diary/aviation life/pprune, and I have just bought a personal title which I hope will show soon.

I welcome all opinions here good or bad, but I still stand by the saying "If you dont like it dont click it". This isn't my thread - it is ours.

Lee :ok:

[Peeking Duck]

Good to see moderator on the ball, I wish Mazzy all the best and I am sure I will relive my student days though this thread.

The great thing about flying is you never stop learning. Those that think they know it all; inevitably are the most dangerous.

In the air and on the ground!

:ok:

[FNG]

"how serious I am about...pprune"


Just one word of advice from one of the grumpy whinging gits, mazzy: getting serious about pprune is usually regarded as a reliable indicator that one needs to get out more.

[mazzy1026]

I would love to get out more but as I am stuck behind a monitor for 7.23 hours per day I cant !

I actually meant my thread/diary rather than pprune itself - but thankyou for pointing that out.

Lee

[Peeking Duck]

Have to agree with mazzy, don't see anything wrong with wanting to use Pprune for a serious thread for a change

[TonyR]

Em.... using the words Pprune and serious in the same post.

Thats what I call serious

[DiscoChocolate]

Great thread mazzy!!
Glad to see that I got a mention in your post... :D
I also encountered that aviator who messed up their approach,their go-around procedure and several other ATC instructions!!!
They messed up so bad they ended up 10ft behind me as my wheels touched the ground and my sheer happiness of making a near perfect landing turned to horror. Its not often that you take off from a touch and go while a PA28 is about 20ft away from your right wing tip! SCARY!

Keep up the diary and I will no doubt see you in Ravenair soon!

[mazzy1026]

C'mon guys ! Dont biccer about something stupid - OK so I used the wrong set of words to describe what I was trying to say. One disadvantage of text communication is that it is bloody difficult to show tone or attitude etc.

DiscoChocolate - welcome to pprune :cool: ! Glad to see your making posts! For the benefit of everyone else, this is the nice chap I met in Ravenair on Sunday.

That sounds like a nerve wrecking moment - all character/skill building I am sure.

Regards


Lee :ok:

[Flyin'Dutch']

M,

Good thing about Proon is that it caters for all tastes, and that you can choose what you read by looking up those threads which are of interest to you.

I think we see less threads like these as there are less students and some BBs offer a special forum for studes which may give some competition.

Best of luck with your PPL training

FD

[cessna l plate]

Top idea, and good luck mazzy!
And to help, here's a piece of advice. You will shortly begin to (If you haven't already) the groundschool part of the course. If you have a choice (Some schools prefer one book to another), then go for the Trevor Thom series.

I JUST scraped through Human Performance, which is supposed to be the easiest of the lot. Then I discovered the difference between Thom and the Jeremy Pratt books I was using. Thom has a lot more detail and explains items better. For instance, I am currently reading navigation. A whole chapter of Thom is dedicated to time, very little mention of it in Pratt.

Now Jeremy Pratt is a very well respected aviator, and I am not here to rubbish him, and some people do achieve great success with his books, but from my point of view, Thom wins hands down. Sadly, it now costing me an arm and a leg to buy the remaining Thom books having bought the full AFE series!!

And to answer a previous question, CATS is still going strong at Liverpool, but not with the names that were given.

[mazzy1026]

Hi Cessna I Plate - thanks for your post !

With regards to groundschool - I am not actually receiving any tuition - I am going through the books myself and using the confuser to brush up before the exam. I actually bought a pack which had everything in it which I needed about 4 months ago, and hoping not to contradict your good advice, they were actually the AFE (Pratt) books!

To be honest I havent seen the Thom ones, so wouldnt be able to give a good comparison, however, so far I have read the Air Law book thoroughly and seemed to get through it OK with no problems. I have just (tonight!) started the nav/met book, which is more complicated and daunting at first, but on the other hand is far, far more interesting and thereofre I am hoping it will sink in better.

As mentioned in HOUR 1, one of my first fears (petty I know) was the size of the Tomahawk. I have now developed another concern (not a fear really, but a foreseeable hurdle) that is, the use of the ARC-1 flight computer. I am pretty good with numbers and maths etc, so am hoping to get to grips with this as best as possible. I have a friend in the RAF who has completed NAV training so I am hoping to get some tips from him. Also fellow flyers at the flying school who are good with the device.

I am pretty sure, a few hours down the line form this post, I will be writing the fact that I can now use the ARC-1, at least better than I can now. Please correct me anyone who thinks it takes longer! :D

Goodnight all,

Lee :ok:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I am pretty good with numbers and maths etc, so am hoping to get to grips with this as best as possible. You can either treat it as a recipe - do what it says in the book and believe the answer - or you can try to understand what's going on, which personally I prefer as I think it'll be easier for me to spot gross errors if I understand the process. All the whizz wheel does is solve vector triangles - to understand how it does this is just a matter of drawing pictures and thinking about it.

Point is, the whizz wheel is supposed to be quicker and easier than either doing the trigonometric calculations with algebra or drawing scale vector triangles on a piece of paper and measuring them; you can use whichever you like for pre-flight planning; in the air, if you have to re-plan a diversion because of weather or something, like I did last Saturday, it's estimating and mental arithmetic (by any of the means discussed here from time to time) and rule-of-thumb (the rule being that a thumb is six miles wide on a half mil chart).

[TonyR]

mazzy1026,

The groundschool subjects will fall into place, just like the flying.

There are two ways to study.

You can beat yourself to death trying to understand everything in the books, or you can learn the answers to the questions.

Many of us could not pass the PPL exams if we had to do them tomorrow.

The knowlege gained either way will only become aparent as your flying skills develop.

Try to get some flights with other pilots, and if you can, listen to the radio (ATC, not radio 1) as much as possible.

My first lesson was 30 years ago just last week and I still love just being in the air, it is still one big adventure, we are all just kids with bigger toys.

Many pilots seem to give up after a couple of years, I think some just did not have the passion to begin with.

Flying should be fun, its not normal, its different, so enjoy it.

Continue to post here (you WILL be insulted) there is lots to learn from others and I am sure you have lots to give.

Tony

[mazzy1026]

Thanks GTW, TonyR

It all slowly starts fitting into place. I agree with going up with other pilots - I met DiscoChocolate at the school, and will go up with him when he passes as he is much further ahead of me. Until then, it's just a case of finding someone to fly with who lives near Liverpool.

Its a shame that I will be insulted - I simply cannot see why, as I am not insulting anyone else, making nasty comments or disrupting the forums in any way. It is very sad.

Thank you

Lee

[TonyR]

Its a shame that I will be insulted

that bit was a joke

[mazzy1026]

hook line and sinker :ok:

[cascade07]

Hey Mazzy 1026...

Good luck with your training. I wish I'd kept some sort of diary of my training so far. I've just completed my General Flying Progress Test recently here in OZ and took my wife and daughter flying for the first time (am now allowed to take passengers). That was a huge blast for me...even bigger than the first solo.

Regardless of your ultimate goal in the industry, be it the airlines or just for a bit of fun, get out there and enjoy the flying. I'll keep an eye out for future installments in your diary. ..

Happy Flying,

Cascade
:D

[c-bert]

Hi Mazzy,

I'm currently about 30 hours into my PPL at Southampton. I've read the CPL diary in the Prof Pilots Forum and if your's end up anything like that it will be a most valuable input to the forum. Good luck and let us all know how it goes!

[mazzy1026]

Thanks guys, cant show you enough how I appreciate your positive comments. :)

[gingernut]

Mazzy, keep up the good work. The forums are a two way affair, you learn from it, and it learns from you.

I found it really useful whilst contemplating training, during training, and now, as a PPL, i continue to learn constantly.

I'm currently working for the health service, (not far from the big bridge), and still enjoy the student contact I have in this field---it always keeps you on your toes. The grumpy so and so's who resist student contact, tend to be the ones who have been doing it "their" way for years at a time. (Usually doing it wrong every year, for 20 years).

Learn from an old medical adage, DLTBGYD....don't let the b:mad: s grind you down ! Good luck, and keep us posted

[Andy_R]

Good for you Mazzy. And do try and ignore the put-you-downs that you WILL get. I felt very intimidated by this forum for a while, mainly during my training which led to me finding a friendlier forum as I saw it.... but ultimately always keep coming back here. And a recent fly-in proved to me that everyone posting here is only human, they eat, breathe and sleep just like us!!!

Look forward to HOUR 2 :ok:

[TonyR]

I felt very intimidated by this forum for a while, mainly during my training which led to me finding a friendlier forum as I saw it....

but ultimately always keep coming back here.

I just can't beleive there is a friendlier forum.

Something here must bring you back

Tony

[Happyeater]

Hi Mazzy,

Well, I just booked my first lesson today for the 9th August at 3.30pm. Its a lifetime ambition to fly and I can't wait to get up there. Keep up your diary please, it will be really useful to hear of your experiences as you move along to gaining your PPL.

It should be some experience.

Regards,

Paul

[mazzy1026]

And a recent fly-in proved to me that everyone posting here is only human, they eat, breathe and sleep just like us!!!

Great point - I look forward to meeting people from pprune in years to come when I can say I have a license.

Gingernut - I too work in the health service - in IT. What area are you in?

Happyeater - great stuff mate ! Hope it goes well for you, and please do feel free to post your progress too !

HOUR 2 should be here Saturday afternoon ! :O

[mazzy1026]

Well, there isn't going to be an hour 2 I am afraid fellow pruners. I contacted the airfirled to check the flight, and it was no longer on - whether it was because of bad weather or something else I dont know. Never really got a decent explanation (no planes were grounded and were still flying throughout the day).

As it turns out (for one reason or another, which I dont think I should go into here) I have changed flynig school. I have to find a school, with an environment, that is perfect for me, and unfortunately that was not the case. I am still flying from Liverpool so all guesses as to where I am.

On one note I must say that my decision was nothing personal about anyone in particular, I had nothing but praise for the level of instruction.

My next lesson is Sunday, and I have secured more cash, so during August where I have a month off work, my diary will have more hours on it than I thought.

First of many problems along the way, taken firmly making me even more determined !

Until then.

Maz.

[cessna l plate]

As I fly (now & again) at Liverpool, tell us where you are then!!

[mazzy1026]

The hangar next door, Keenair ! I made the mistake of not checking them out before I started. Silly me. :ok:

[SkySista]

Hi Mazzy,

Nice idea. After a couple years of not flying, I am finally able to begin my PPL in earnest (loooooong overdue!!!) and am just so ecstatic to be taking that 1st step as you have done.

As has already been said, I think this thread will be helpful to those who are wanting to fly, or even for those high-timers who may be wondering what it's like now to be doing a PPL.

I too am planning to keep a diary of my PPL progress (not here though) and definitely plan to be coming back to PPRuNe with all my questions. 99% of people on here are so lovely and willing to help with anything you may want to know or be having trouble with.

Keep up the good work, I'll be interested to see how hour 2 goes. Hopefully I start my actual flying this week, as well as groundschool; we'll be learning at the same time (can compare notes even) :)

And as for the Trevor Thom series, I second the assessment, they are very good. For the person that was looking for them, you can sometimes find recent ones on eBay for a reasonable price.

My AU2c ;)

Sky

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Mazzy,

The reason why you may not have flown whilst other people were out enjoying themselves with the aeroplanes was probably because you are on your first few lessons.

It is extremely important that you have excellent weather including a distinct horizon so you have something out of the window to base all of your maneouvers around.

Straight and Level requires an nose attitude against the horizon, Turns require an attitude against a horizon etc...

It won't be until later on that you will start to fly with a non-distinct horizon.

During our summer days over here in the UK we do have some nice weather, including some nice spouts of high pressure systems but usually that means haze or an temperature inversion giving no horizon available.

Personally I believe your previous school may have had your best interests at heart and plenty of other schools would probably have taken you flying with undesirable weather. However I am not implying that is why you changed schools, please forgive me if you think I'm saying that.

I'm not sure what the weather was like up in the Liverpool area on Saturday so I may be totally mistaken.

All the best for the course!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[mazzy1026]

Hi Charlie Z

Thanks for your post - I never really thought of it like that, and I do agree that this may have been in their best interest, however, an explanation of that fact from the flying school would have been nice :O

That isn't the reason why I am changing schools, it is more a collection of other small things, but I dont want to go into them here, as that isn't the purpose of this thread - I would like to concentrate on the flying and progress etc.

Thanks

Maz

[applebyca]

Hello to one and all. I'm after advice and saw Ravenair mentioned quite regularly in this forum, so if no one minds, I'll drop my question here. I don't see any harm though after reading the terms and conditions of forum usage.

I'm hoping to start my PPL in August after doing a fair bit of research around the flying schools in the North- West. They're all around 45 mins from me, but after doing a trial flight at Ravenair, I feel the most comfortable here.

However, I expect it will probably take me close to a year to complete due to work committments etc. I see Ravenair have a very good package on offer for the full PPL, but just have trouble parting with that much money upfront before starting my training.

Can anyone offer me some advice.

[NinjaBill]

Dont ever ever ever pay for anything up front. Ever, not even a little bit.

[mazzy1026]

Dont ever ever ever pay for anything up front. Ever, not even a little bit.

I can see the potential dangers of doing so - but if you pay a fair bit up front then you do get a significant discount. If you want to pay up front - maybe use a credit card to get insurance.

Maz

[Gertrude the Wombat]

but if you pay a fair bit up front then you do get a significant discount The theory is that an organisation that wants you to pay up front is desperate for cash and vastly more likely to go bust than one which is happy for you to pay on landing because their business is in good shape.

Having read many stories of flying schools going bust over the years and losing their students' up front money I would also advise never to pay in advance.

[mazzy1026]

GTW

Yes agreed - do all schools offer a discount ? Even if you are just hiring for 10 hours or so ? I have never been forced into giving money up front - I can imagine if it is "strongly" advised by the school then maybe there are some possibilities of things going wrong, like you correctly stated.

Maz

[Gertrude the Wombat]

do all schools offer a discount No.

And those that do should only be offering a discount that works out at about 6% APR. If they're offering a larger discount than that it means that they're trying to borrow money from you for more than they ought to be able to borrow from the bank ... which means that they've tried borrowing from the bank and been turned down.

Does any student pilot really want to lend money to an organisation that the banks think is too dodgy?

[applebyca]

Thanks very much for all your wise advice. And to think I was about to send a cheque for that much. What a mistake it could have been.

I think I might do some more research before jumping in. Again, many thanks for your advice. It certainly makes a difference having a site like this where we can share opinions.

[maggioneato]

Mazzy, I will follow your progress with great interest as I learnt to fly at L'pool too. Enjoy your training. I took myself off to a lovely grass strip instead several years ago.
Peeking Duck. Clare Pollard left before I did. Great guy.

[Hampshire Hog]

Mazzy, great idea to put your experiences on here. I'd thought about the same myself, so I hope you don't mind if I butt in on yours.

As a 10 hour student, now flogging around the circuit, I can't emphasise enough the importance of shopping around flying schools and doing some trial flights.

Check out the briefing (and briefing facilities), instructor - technical knowledge and instructing capabilities, and the aircraft. Not all flying schools have knackered planes and, whilst individual rapport is one thing, some instructors are definitely technically better than others. I tried several schools close to home, before ending up with a well known one (albeit a good 1/2 to 3/4 hour drive from home) at Wycombe. There I found good, very experienced instructors, very well maintained aircraft (even a nice livery for posing!) and excellent club facilities, where total flying costs are less than my local clubs'.

As a lawyer, I would never advise anyone to pay up-front - even for a heafty discount. Flying in the UK is often abortive - you may be forced (rightly) to go some time between lessons. Money spent now alway has a higher cost than money spent later - think about the real value and risk involved in that discount. Almost everyone at my club pays as they fly - after the lesson - for actual chocks-chocks time. Moreover, time spent student solo is charged at the solo rate.

And what about Thom v. Pratt. Well, I've only sat the air law so far (would have been embarassing to fail!) but I actually used both books. Thom goes into the detail, but Pratt is far more readable. Use both (if you can find them/afford it). I'm convinced the differences in emphasis, presentation and thus, improved understanding, can only make you a better and safer aviator.

[c-bert]

I'm curious Hampshire Hog, where do you fly from?

[ACW 335]

Howzabouts we leave this thread to Mazzy so people who actually want to read about the thread title can do so without having to trawl through ten or so pages of not so relevent stuff?

Just a thought - i would like to be able to see a thread written just about someone doing their PPL rather than what everyone thinks to the idea. Why not delete all irrelevent posts.

BTW - i think its a fab idea! :ok:

[mazzy1026]

I will leave this one to develop itself! I realise it will probably take a while to finish this diary, i.e. it wont be a daily update. I dont mind people discussing other things, just as long as I can keep the diary going it aint a problem :ok:

[mazzy1026]

After arriving at the flying school at 11:30 I am now settled after filling out the membership form. I have met my new instructor, who again is a real nice guy, and before I know it we are sat in the lounge having a one on one chat. Something which I hadn’t previously been able to have. He explains everything to me and asks me about my other flying experiences. This is great as it is a more personal approach for me and I feel al lot more comfortable in a ‘family’ atmosphere.

We done a basic walk around the aircraft (only basic for now as the more detailed one which should take over an hour is done on days when flying cant be done). Went over mostly the aircraft surfaces to make sure of any obvious defects like another aircraft hitting it. Also, I got the aircraft checklist – something which I hadn’t seen yet. Upon getting in the aircraft, we went through the basic checks, I would read out the item in the list, then he would take me through what it meant, whilst actually carrying out the check at the same time. This was good and I took in what was said. I hadn’t seen the primer before, and it was a bit awkward opening it and twisting at the same time as it is quite close to the side of the throttle panel. Bit of funny start to the day as we swapped headsets only to realise I had soaked them due to the heat (I know I should have my own but this will be the last thing I buy as the money IMHO is better spent on the flying for now).

So now I was beginning to understand the process in more detail, and things were slowly fitting onto place from what I remembered in the previous lesson. I am thinking “Yeah I could get used to this”! :D

Again, I done most of the taxiing, learned how to use the brakes at best, also the handbrake with the awkward release button on. The take off run was great, again having most of the control along the way, instructor looking after keeping it down the centreline. He explained as the aircraft left the ground it will want to turn left, so I was able to anticipate this with some yaw and aileron. Today is an extremely hazy day, with not what you would call good visibility. There is a lot of micro light activity and quite a few aircraft in the vicinity, and because my headsets are a bit better (much clearly sound) I am hearing a lot of air traffic advice etc, thus beginning to understand what is being said a lot more.

I like this lesson a lot because my instructor (after helping me with use of the throttle etc) is giving me tasks to do such as “Maintain 3000ft, 90 kts using attitude, controls, trim and throttle” etc, so after a few tries it seems relatively straight forward and I am beginning to get the hang of straight and level flight. A few more manoeuvres later over where I live (the training this time is mostly done North of the aerodrome, which is great as this is probably where I will be doing most of my flying upon passing) we are on our way back to the aerodrome. We do a gliding descent from 3000ft to 1400ft and he is explaining along the way what’s happening and why we are doing it this way etc. we see a Cessna at a slightly higher speed than us, so we do an orbit to let him/her in front, then we are number two in the join, following the Cessna. I am at the controls all the way until after touchdown – obviously being followed through and getting some excellent verbal instructions along the way. My first real attempt at landing which went very smooth without any problems. An amazing feeling, which still have now. Now it is time for my first ever RT transmission:


“Golf sierra alpha, leaving kilo, goodbye” to which I get an instant response.

Now anyone would think that is easy to say no problem, but let me tell you, as you all know when it was your first time, even remembering something as small as this is harder than you think. The PTT switch went down and it came out easy, and upon hearing the reply was probably the best feeling so far, I have attempted a landing and spoke to ATC (this must sound very sad to all you experienced guys, but I am sure it takes you back when you were in the same situation)! :cool:

We taxi back and go through the shutdown checks, all is well and I have learned a lot today. I feel more confident than ever and cant wait for the next lesson. Now its back to the school for the Air Law exam ! instructor offers me a brew and gets another chap to sort me out with the exam.

Now, I have read the AFE Air Law book twice, and go through the confuser twice also. I thought the exam went very well and hopefully I have passed. It took me about 25 mins to complete and really wasn’t difficult at all.

In summary, I have had a superb day. I have done the air law exam, tried a landing and used the radio. I am buzzing all over and will be until Friday morning, which is my next lesson.

Until then, thanks for reading and I look forward to writing hour 3.

Regards

Lee :D

[Whirlybird]

Maz,

Good report. :ok:

this must sound very sad to all you experienced guys, but I am sure it takes you back when you were in the same situation

Doesn't sound at all sad! It does indeed take me back to my very first radio call during an early lesson, when my instructor asked me to say "G-XXXX is five miles North for rejoin". He had to tell me about three times, and it was probably the hardest radio call I ever made. Your thread reminded me that little and often is the way to go for radio use; not all instructors get you to use the radio that early on, and it sounds like yours is a good 'un. :ok:

it was a pretty hazy day, wasn't it. Still, probably less crowded than yesterday, when I tried to get into the Liverpool Zone with a student, and had to give up after standing by for nearly ten minutes, during which the poor ATCO on Liverpool Approach hadn't stopped talking!

Keep up the flying and the writing. :ok:

[mazzy1026]

Thanks Whirly - it's funy you mention the ATCO like that, I heard him say today "Jeez I got a million people talking to me at once here" - it's kinda funny looking back, but obviously at the time was probably quite stressful.

Are you based at Liverpool Whirly?

Cheers

Lee :ok:

[Whirlybird]

Maz,

No; I'm a part time helicopter instructor at Hawarden, just south of you. I had a trial lesson student on Saturday who wanted to overfly his house which was near Ellesmere Port. I told him we could try, if Liverpool would let us into their zone. Well, we called up, and he got to try flying while we were standing by; then I got in a quick call to tell Liverpool we'd be returning to Hawarden. :(

I also have a share in a C150 based at Sleap.

I thought I might have an instructing job at Liverpool last year, but it never worked out.

[Holdposition]

twenty mins at the hold in the sun yesterday @ EGNH (Blackpool) wasn't fun, but well worth it to allow the Lancaster & Spitfire to take off. Taxiing passed the Lancaster on engines startup is something that will live for me forever:). Now who do I send the dri- cleaning bill too:)

[c-bert]

Holdposition - I'm with you there, I had to do the same thing at Southampton last week. Had to give way to the Spit and got a 'thank you' wave - from a Spitfire pilot. Wow. Still smiling....:D

[SkySista]

Congrats Mazzy!

Ah the first radio call... always a 'big thing' for the students... I remember mine was made worse by the knowledge that 15 or so of my classmates were listening in on the ground! :p

Nice description of your lesson, you're making me jealous!!! Can't wait to be back flying again as you are...

It's funny how excited we can get over things like checklists and walkarounds... but there you go! It's all part of the learning process... and if you're enjoying what you're learning, you'll learn it well! :ok:

Have fun Friday!!!

Sky

[mazzy1026]

and if you're enjoying what you're learning, you'll learn it well!

Too right ! I just cant get enough of it now ! :D

As mentioned earlier in ths thread though, I am sure there will be problems along the way, which will come along at one point or another. :8

Thanks all

Lee :ok:

[Sunfish]

Glad to see this thread! I'm learning in Melbourne Australia at the moment and have about six hours.

Just getting into circuit work in a Cessna 150.

[mazzy1026]

Keep it up sunfish ! I look forward to the circuits.........:ok:

[Hampshire Hog]

But be prepared for both good and bad days! I have been in the circuit for a few lessons now, both on our tarmac runway and the grass (which might be bumpy, but it's wider and at least looks softer!).

Several of my lessons flogging around in circles have been good, but on Monday the haze was terrible, I was flying a non-standard circuit from the tarmac in a direction I've only used once before and I spent most of the hour severely testing my (very good) instructor's nerves. Not properly lined up, too high, too low, and flaring too early. Ah well, keep positive and try again next week!

[c-bert]

Yeah, the circuit can be a pain, but when your instructor finally says, "OK, I'm going to hop out now and let you do one on your own." it all becomes worth it. Especially as you start nav after that which is far more interesting.

If it helps anyone out there, I had problems with flaring too high as well. I solved it by trying to view the bigger picture just when I normally flared ie. not staring at a spot on the runway like I was doing but just looking further down the runway. Made my landings a lot better and more consistant as well.

[Hampshire Hog]

Thanks for that advice c-bert. I'll certainly try to focus my eyes further down the runway. My instructor has told me several times to look at the far end, but by the time I'm crossing the threshold my eyes are fixed rigidly just beyond the prop, on the centre-line (oh, all right, whichever side of it I've ended up!). I think, having messed it up a couple of times, I'm just getting too tense on final. Sure next time will be better:)

[Obs cop]

HH,

The tip my instructor gave me for flaring a 150/152 was to look towards the far end of the runway and when you can see the runway coming up to meet you in your peripheral vision, gradually raise the nose so that the top of the engine cowling lines up with your horizon and then hold it there. As long as you are not too fast and have chopped the power, the attitude will be just about right and you will descend nicely onto the runway.

If you look close in to the aircraft, you will tend to over compensate on the controls and either hit nosewheel first or bounce along your runway.

Hope this helps,

Obs cop

[c-bert]

Yeah, everyone always says look at the far end of the runway, but I'm far to scared that I'll fly into the ground! About halfway down I find strikes a good balance between fear and competence...:ok:

Oh BTW, I'm no expert, a grand total of 31 hrs so far.

[Margo]

Hurray! It's sooo great to hear you talking about all the things I'm going through!! Kinda feel a bit isolated... A buddy of mine gave up because she couldn't handle the unpredictability of lessons being cancelled... But how great does it feel when you are up there?? Doing solo nav's at the mo. and still can't believe they let me fly off on my own... Wouldn't swap it for the world. Two more exams to go and my qualifier, gulp! Lovin it ;-)

[Footsie]

Brilliant thread Mazzy.

I'm at Ravenair; just passed 45 hours and awaiting skill test. Went up for a couple of hours this morning and absolutely loved it, even though I made a total hash of my diversion. Had to keep flying lower and lower as the cloud base descended, and that was enough to throw my concentration. Being up there still gives me a huge buzz a year on, and I'm sad enough to get on FS2004 when I'm back on terra firma.

Whilst talking FS2004, I highly recommend the VFR photographic scenery. It really is good enough to practice nav flights, and if you link it with VFR terrain, then you can really clearly see the Beeston Hills, Helsby etc. This will help you when you start flying out of zone.

So much of your experience rings true with mine. First radio call is terrifying, but you soon get the hang of it. The guy who visits Ravenair to teach the R/T, and maybe Keenair as well, is a Manchester ATCO and really superb. Suggest you may want to do that course once you're regularly flying out of zone so you've heard MATZ penetration calls etc.

IMHO, the Pratt books are excellent, as long as you've got the Confuser - which is just essential. Doing the exams as you go, as you are, is the right way to do it - I did a load at the beginning and then left 3 until the end, which ended up getting in the way of the flying.

I know you're being diplomatic about your change of school, and totally respect that. I had some issues early on but a change to a new instructor, at my request, changed everything and I've nothing but praise for them now. As someone else says, they will be very picky over the weather you can fly in at the beginning, as smooth air with a clear horizon is essential. They do ease off as you get more experienced, as I describe above re. descending cloud base.

Liverpool is a superb airport to fly from. Excellent facilities, normally good weather, Class D discipline but uncontrolled beautiful areas all around, real feeling of sharing the skys with the big boys as you watch Easys and Ryanairs on long finals. Occasionally a bit busy, but early mornings are normally quiet.

Looking forward to hearing more.

[mazzy1026]

Woke up this morning, and after a week of thunderstorms, was chuffed to see a perfect clear sky with not one knot of wind. Got to the airfield around 8:35 and booked in. My instructor was having a quick meeting with a fellow instructor so he said I could go through my checklist and do a quick external check (don’t worry, he done it himself also before the flight). So I got my high vis vest and off I went. Done the external checks, checked the fuel tanks, surface controls, undercarriage, flaps etc.

We then went back in then for the pre flight briefing. Now it is at this point that I realised I had been reading the wrong material too soon. I had previously done the Air Law exam so thought I would start on Navigation and Meteorology. The problem is, when he asked me if I had read up on climbs and descends (which was the schedule for today) I could do nothing but say no. He told me I should be reading through the syllabus as we go through it before each lesson, so that I at least have a basic understanding of the subject in hand. So at this point I have just finished reading the Met section of the AFE book. I am going to drop it here for now and start on flying training, reading the parts I will need for the next lesson. I have 18 months to do the exams in so not really in any great rush. I know I have to pass nav/met though before first cross country, but this will be a while off.

Now onto the flight. The pre flight checks are starting to sink in, I needed a quick reminder on the suction, the ammeter reading and the magneto check. All else was ok. I got to do most of the taxiing too, which is getting easier. Ok so all take off checks complete and we continue to roll down and take off. The plan of action for today was climbs and descents. We flew over the usual territory and began training. At this point it is worth mentioning that in the pre flight briefing, my instructor went through all the theory that I would need, and the actual procedures of climbing and descending.

I remember being in the bulldogs as a cadet and the pilot drilling into me “P-A-T”, Power-Attitude-Trim. I have always remembered this and we used this today. To climb, add full power, raise the nose to the correct attitude to maintain 70 knots. Instructor would cover up the speed indicator so that I didn’t rely on it too much and “chase the needle” as they say. So I gave it a go without verbal instruction……full power, raise nose, trim and wait. I found that that engine tone and reaction of controls would indicate the correct speed/attitude, and low and behold, when he removed his hand from over the air-speed indicator – bang on 70kts! Felt great! so when levelling off, I kept power full, lowered the nose to zero climb and waited for 90 kts, then reduce the power to around 2200 rpm (maybe a little more). It is at this point when the acronym becomes “A-P-T”. I am getting along fine with this and enjoying my success for the time being. Quite a few tries later we start to head back. I enjoy these lessons because I have got control for 95% of the flight, none of this “Here I will turn for you”. I always remember my driving instructor, he would hover over the brakes and actually use them with you as you were braking, pointless as you will never get used to the brakes!

Another very successful lesson, landing was very smooth. One thing I found interesting today was the way the stall indicator works – I have always wondered this. A tiny metal flap on the leading edge of the port wing which lifts up when the angle of attack increases – very, very basic but extremely important device – no rocket science here!

Next lesson is Sunday, but I think the wind will be picking up too much so I am anticipating a cancellation. More time to get started on the flying training book.

Best regards

Lee.

Footsie - I know what you mean about the flight sim - just cant get enough mate !!

[SQUAWKIDENT]

Mazzy

Another great read - took me right back to my early training at Biggin in the early 90's. I have to admit to being another FS2004 + VFR Photographic Scenery + VFR Terrain Mesh fan - not for the "skill" aspect (it doesn't require any..) but more for the views - incredible for a Flight Sim - I would certainly recommend the combination to any fellow pilots grounded by the weather with nothing to do;)

http://www.visualflight.co.uk/ (for anyone interested)

Regards

Adam

PS: Looking forward to your next report!

[Penguina]

This is a good read! It's hard to talk about anything else when you're just learning, isn't it?

My experience suggests that it's a good idea to keep plugging at the exams, even if you do have ages. I didn't, and it really held me back a couple of times (first solo and pre-skill test). On the other hand, it's harder to learn and remember the content without the first-hand experience, especially law, nav and fpp. Hmmmm....

Ah well, keep up the head of steam!

:)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

the acronym becomes “A-P-T”. Or you can stay with P-A-T and put A-S on the front for "attitude, speed", "A-S-P-A-T", ie you level off, let the speed build, drop the power, readjust attitude which will now need to be slightly different because of the power change, and trim.

[SkySista]

A tiny metal flap on the leading edge of the port wing which lifts up when the angle of attack increases – very, very basic but extremely important device – no rocket science here!

That reminds me of something my AGK/Nav. instructor was telling us the other night - when he was learning to fly in the South African air force, they were in a Tiger Moth, and the airspeed indicator was out on the wing, just simply a metal flap that went flatter against the wing the faster they got, and he had to read off the speed from a scale on the bottom! :uhoh: Pretty basic to what we have now, eh, (but I suppose it worked...!)

Great summary again, Mazzy. You'll love having this to look back on once you're let loose on your own! ;)

(it's funny, those acronyms sure stick with you... I still remember HASEL from my school days... at least, I think it was hasel!!! :p)

Sky

[Sunfish]

Mazzy et al. At last I have found some people who are doing exactly what I've done, rounding out too high, looking too close to the aircraft instead of the far end of the runway and so on.

Last Tuesday was a horror day for me on the circuit. Flapless approaches and landings, gliding approaches and landings - these went very well indeed. Tthe final circuit was going to be me demonstrating my masterful landing technique - only to have Beth grab the controls and apply power as I bounced and did my best to stall the aircraft into the tarmac from 40 feet.

So anyway, Wednesday I re read what I was supposed to be doing in preparation for Thursday - which was solid rain and cloud to 600 feet.

About 2.00 pm we found a window of clear sky and went up just to do simple circuits. I finally think I have some idea of what to do in the last 200 feet.

Get the approach right otherwise things just snowball. Throttle back to 1700 revs, hold nose up to wash off speed then chuck out ten, then twenty degrees of flap and lower nose to maintina 75 kts. Teurn final seleect aimpoint fifty yards from piano keys.

Chuck out another ten degrees to give thirty degrees of flap and position nose to give 65 kts.

Then saying under breath 65 kts, keep moving throttle and elevator to keep the aimpoint AND sixty five knots. Aimpoint - 65kts - Aimpoint- 65 kts Aimpoint etc. It seems to work.

I was rounding out too high - scared of getting too low and flying it into the grass, but the logical contradiction finally hit me. Once you do round out, the aeroplane flys perfectly happily straight and level for that 50 yards before the keys, look at the other end of the runway and then just ease back on power and hold the nose up.

Anyway we did circuits for an hour and a bit, just watching the next rainstorm coming in from over the bay. Timed it right so we had the Cessna tied down and were walking back to the office when the first raindrops hit - very satisfying.

Wednesday I go out with a Senior instructor for a check flight.

[mazzy1026]

As this lesson is a continuation of the previous hour (climbs and descents) it will be quite similar from a technical point of view.

Today was quite a windy day and I actually rang the school to see if we were still flying but I think I rang a bit too early. As I am in the early stages of my training I cannot yet tell the strength of the wind purely by feel. I got to the airfield and actually thought it was quite a strong wind and that we wouldn’t be flying. I went out to the hangar and saw my instructor, he said the wind was around 8 kts in which I was amazed at as it seemed quite strong. The windsock was only about 45 degrees from the horizon. Another problem was the haze, as it was quite early in the day, the haze layer was still quite low, so he asked me if I was ok to continue and climb above for now (as if I was gonna refuse the flight yeah?!)

Ok so we went through an external check in more detail, draining some fuel to take a look at it and looking under the cowling etc. the things I learned today about the aircraft (amongst others) was the purpose of the pitot and the pitot heat. He shown me if you place the back of your hand under the pitot you can feel a gentle warm air flow, as this can freeze over in icing conditions and then you would lose the use of the ASI which wouldn’t be good. Then there was the static vent. This (in very basic terms) being a pipe running along the aircraft which measures changes in pressure and allows the use of the altimeter etc. Sorry if this sounds like a lesson to you, but writing it down and explaining helps me to understand more. Hope you don’t mind.

So, as this is a continuation of climbs and descents, it was time to make use of the flaps, a cruise climb/descent and one of my favourite parts, the ‘sideslip’. As I am aware, the sideslip has to be covered as it is still part of the syllabus, but nobody really ever uses it. Please correct me if I am wrong but was it used in earlier days when no flaps were available, to lose height at a greater rate as slow as possible? It was fun to do thought, I never knew the Tommy could have done something like that, I must have more faith!

So far things are going well, things are fitting into place and I understand what is happening. I performed the manoeuvres ok and on the way back, made my first position report/approach intentions to ATC. This was another highlight in the process as I am sure you can understand.

Now, going back to a post I made several months ago, before I had started any training. Some of you may have read it. It was about crosswind landings. I was asking how they are performed and I admitted that it seems a daunting process and that it may be something which (what’s the right word here? I don’t want to use ‘fear’) seems a bit difficult at first. Ok so we were landing on RW09 with a 120 degree crosswind, so we were being pushed to the left. I seem to recall that ATC didn’t inform us of the stronger wind, as it was significantly stronger than what was said in the ATIS report. Anyway, this is my first crosswind landing attempt. I confirmed that I was in control and was being followed through. I am going to be completely honest with you at this point, I kept the airspeed as close to 70kts as I could, I kept a steady attitude (had great verbal help from instructor) and let the plane fly itself, with physics doing the rest. The landing went very well, it really wasn’t as difficult as I had though months ago when writing my crosswind post. My landings have gone very well so far, I know I have only done 4 hours but I do look forward to the circuits, as I particularly enjoy the landing stage. I am also getting more taxi control, which is great as this has also been another area that daunted me at first Made the final call to ATC, this time, only with the instruction ok you know what to say”,

“Golf sierra alpha, passing kilo, goodbye”.

I rang up on Saturday to find out my Air Law exam result. Got 92% which was very good to know.

Thanks for reading.

Lee.

[Vee One...Rotate]

majorcan,

Erm...those who want to get a feel for the kind of things to expect from their PPL course - personal experiences rather than lesson plans from Thom.

Don't be a prat and if that doesn't work, you could always click the big back button on your browser and peruse something else.

Thanks mazzy - keep it up :)

Regards,

V1R

[locksmith]

I think this thread is good for students, just worried about it going a bit PINK though

[mazzy1026]

I have never seen the thread you are referring to, so anything in here (that comes from me) is just that, from ME! It's my own experiences and words!

[Vee One...Rotate]

What is this "pink (headsets?)" thread we hear so much about? It's famous...or rather infamous at PPRuNe...!

Last post like this from me - don't want the thread descending into something it wasn't meant to be. Over to you again mazzy et al...

V1R :D

[Fly Stimulator]

majorcan,

Looking at the sum total of your posting history here, the only thing of value you seem to have contributed thus far is this:
If you want to diss someone, please do it via a PM or something, there is no room for comments like yors on our forum.

[Hampshire Hog]

Thanks to all of you who have posted comments and advice re. the flare and landing. I'm booked for Thursday (thunderstorms permitting) so I'll give the techniques described a try.

I note several people have referred to FS2004, either as a learning aid, or simply as a flying fix substitute! As a 'sad anorak' I've used FS for some years now. It's not perfect, but it's great for running through the checklists that have to be rote learned. It's also quite good for learning radio navigation (what beacons do what and how the instruments work). The photoreaslistic scenary is not bad, but flying from Wycombe (the British Airports add-on is good for EGTB) I can say that there are an awful lot of extraneous buildings in the circuit area.

I would like to join others in inviting Majorcan to go and look at another forum if he doesn't like this one. Communicating with others is a great way of learning and we'll probably end up better pilots for it. If it repeats material from previous threads, well, what harm done?

Well done Mazzy. Crosswind landings, wow! keep it up

[SkySista]

Once again, nice summary Mazzy.

As for the comments questioning this thread's relevance, I too would like to add that I find Mazzy's posts informative, as I am about to start my training and it gives me an idea what to expect. We all learn from each other here, obviously Majorcan hasn't been here long enough to figure that out.

It's just like TV, if you don't like it, push the button and find something you do like. It's not that hard.

Mazzy, I am a tad confused about the sideslip thing. Is it the same as 'crabbing", you know where the nose is pointed to one side...? I'm not really explaining what I mean very well... There are so many different words I hear used I forget what some of them are... (blonde moment ;) )

Sky

[Fly Stimulator]

SkySista,

No, a sideslip and crabbing are different.

When you're crabbing you are (or should be) flying the aircraft in a perfectly balanced state - i.e. ball in the middle, wings level etc. The 'crabbing' bit comes from the difference between your progress through the air mass you're flying in and the movement of that air mass over the ground. In order to line up with the runway in a crosswind you need to point the aircraft into the wind; the stronger the wind the bigger the angle for any given speed. The aircraft is pointing somewhat into the wind, but its path over the ground is different, and hopefully in line with the runway. It's exactly like swimming across a river to reach a point directly opposite - you have to point yourself upstream in order to go straight across.

Sideslipping is a different thing, but it can also be used to hold a runway heading when you have a crosswind. It involves banking the aircraft into the wind to compensate for the drift, but at the same time using the rudder to keep the nose pointing down the runway. With a wind from the right you’ll end up with the right wing down but left rudder applied. This is so-called unbalanced flight - the ball won't be in the middle and the controls will be 'crossed' i.e. the ailerons and rudder will be applied against each other compared to the way in which you’d normally carry out a turn.

In this context it's known as a 'wing down' approach. The advantage is that it allows you to compensate for crosswind while remaining aligned with the runway. It also means there’s no need to align the aircraft with the runway at the last moment before touchdown – you simply land with the upwind wheel first. Some people (including me) prefer it to a crabbing approach, but it depends somewhat on aircraft type since some are better than other at sideslips, on some sideslips are not allowed with full flap and in others they’re not allowed at all.

The other thing that sideslips are good for is losing height in a hurry without gaining speed. This technique is especially handy in aircraft without flaps, but works well in anything where sideslips are permitted.

[EKKL]

I have to agree with most here regarding what majorcan has said. How can someone knock a thread like this, you don't have to read it mate, just stay away and let others learn from it and discuss as they are doing now. I can't wait for the discussions about whizz-wheels/nav etc, should be good reading. BRL, a bit harsh what you wrote to correct him/her but in my view right.

[mazzy1026]

Fly Stimulator

Thanks for that explanation, from the last lesson I was only aware of its use in terms of a rapid descent, like you mentioned, I never knew it could be used in a xwind - very interesting!

EKKL

I can't wait for the discussions about whizz-wheels/nav etc, should be good reading.

I am looking forward to that myself, however I know it's one of the hardest things to learn ! There will probably be a lot of discussions and questions being asked around then !

Cheers

Lee

[tired-flyboy]

Mazzy

Just reading this thread and like everyone else it brings back memories.

I mostly use the wingdown landing on x-winds makes life much easier (i think personally).

Have you completed a demo of a full stall (spiral descent yet -don't worry the instructor does this you just hold onto your stomach!!)

Great fun - keep it up, it only gets better!!



:ok:

[BRL]

Mazzy. I am sorry about some of the earlier comments posted here and I have just cleaned/deleted the posts with them in it up.(including mine.)

If anyone has a problem with what has been deleted then please PM me and NOT to comment on this thread here. Anything that is on this thread that is directed at me, the way I moderate and so on, will just be deleted so don't waste your time. PM me or even start a new thread but please DO NOT post here and ruin this excellent thread.

Once again Mazzy I apologise for having to post this here.

[mazzy1026]

tired-flyboy:

I look forward to learning xwind landings in more detail, and will probably be able to determine my own approach best, as you have done. I remember a good thread a few months back on xwind landings, so that may be worth a visit later on.

With regards to the stall/spin awareness, no I havent done anything there yet, but if it is anywhere near as fun as the sideslip, then I am sure it will be another high point in my training! Fun aside though, I know these are a serious side of aviation and suppose there not much fun when you are in one that you didn't enduce yourself! :ugh:

BRL:

No need to apologise at all - I think (and 99% of others think) that you do a fantastic job, it's just the 1% that like to spoil it. Sometimes I wonder whether the negative posts are from people who are just seeking attention, or like to spark an argument, in that case, sending negative thoughts via PM is a much better idea, and I reckon that nobody would ever bother via PM because then it aint on the board for other people to see! (watch my inbox fill up now :(

Thanks guys

Lee :ok:

[SkySista]

Fly Stimulator,

Thanks for that explanation - clears it up (though I was sitting here using my hands to mimic a plane and wind direction so I'd visualise what you meant) - once I read it thru a couple times it 'clicked' into place. I think my problem was from hearing the two terms incorrectly applied by others. (That, and a particularly trying Nav. class tonight has fried my brain! :p )

Think I'll actually print that out for future reference :ok:

As regards stalls, have only experienced stall turns and such rather than spirals (which sound exciting), but it's all something new to look forward to!

Will shut up now and leave it to Mazzy! ;)

Sky

[mazzy1026]

Keep it coming peeps - this is all good discussion ! :D

[NinjaBill]

SkySista..

During a correctly excecuted stall turn, the wing of the aircraft will not actually stall. This is becuase the stalling speed of a wing is a function of the load on the wing. Since there is no load on the wing, it doesnt stall.

There is a very indepth stalling discussion on the flying instrucors forum, and i dont want to hijack this thread, so ill be quiet now...

NB

[mazzy1026]

Whilst thinking, I thought it would be a good idea to post my experiences of the medical. In brief, I had always thought about a class 1 at Gatwick, but due to the eyesight (which is borderline) and the fact that it would be a complete nightmare getting to Gatwick and spending £420 - I went for the class 2. I just wanted to get flying and that was that.

So I got intouch with my local AME (and what a fantastic bloke he is) and booked it.

I arrived and was asked to produce a urine sample - the nurse gave me a littler pot and pointed me in the direction of the gents. After waiting a little longer, I met the chap who I spoke to on the phone a few times, my AME. He is a very nice chap indeed, a keen aviator himself so was very on par with me. He gave me the usual tests, height, weight etc and made notes as we went along, filling in forms.

The eye examinations were similar to that you would experience in an optician, but there were 2 other tests which I had never done before. One of them I think was a prism test, which involved looking through a pair of red tinted goggles, and rotating a wheel in the side, until the vertical line came into position of the light. I cant quite remember what this was testing off the top of my head. A few eye tests down the line, it was time for the ECG. This was very straight forward and involved attatching clapms to my wrists and ankles, then electrodes to my chest (which do leave a rather large red mark). Then it was just a case of relaxing for 30 or so seconds to get a reading, which turned out normal.

The thing that I had to do to pass the eyetest was get my optometrist who done my last eye check, to fill in a form with my details and basically sign it saying thay my eyes were healthy and no problems etc.

I actually had the medical 2 weeks ago and just recieved my certificate the other day. It is a hurdle overcome and one can relax knowing I can go solo (and actually get the PPL I supppose) :p

Aside from the medical - I would actually like this thread to become more than a diary - like some kind of reference or learning point (as it already seems to have done so). I will post (and others are welcome to) my difficulties and any areas that I find tough (yes such as NAV and the 'whizz-wheel') and I have no doubt in my mind that you kind people will come on and help out :ok:

Until Hour 5

Lee :cool:

[MichaelJP59]

Nice diary, Mazzy, keep up the good work:)

You said at the start that you had 10-15 hours on the Bulldog and some glider experience - do you think that has helped you? Oh and did you get to solo the Bulldog?

Anyway, you seem to have got off to an excellent start.

- Michael

[Vee One...Rotate]

I too had my Class II medical recently. Didn't have to wear any red goggles (!) but had a lovely stick with text on it held against my forehead...with the text being slid back and forth...! ECG was a LOT quicker than I thought as well. Funny you had to wait for your certificate - I asked when I could expect mine at the end of the session (less than an hour) and he signed his name a few times and gave me it there and then!

Quite enjoyable all told. There were even some ego-boosting phrases: "That's a low heart rate and BP, do you run?" :ok:

V1R :O

[mazzy1026]

Unfortunately I never got to solo the Bulldog as it was only AEF flying. Having done these hours as a cadet was definately a great help towards the PPL for a few reasons. Mainly, it helped me realise that I do actually love flying, because some people say they love it, but until they have tried it they would never know. It also helped me because each flight was more than just drilling holes in the sky. We learned all about basic handling, even performed take off's and landings. Aero's were cool too, learning how to do them was excellent.

With regards to the medical, I had to wait until I got the optometrist to sign the form (it was something which the CAA legally required) so once I had this done and the AME had it, he issued the cert.

Thanks all

Lee

[mazzy1026]

Today was the first time I thought that the lesson would be cancelled. The cloud was quite low and there was a presence of mist. I got up and drove to the airfield anyway, a little gutted that we might not be flying, knowing that we could do the detailed walk-around anyway if we couldn’t fly. However, when I got there it was decided that we could do some instrument work, making the most of the weather conditions in the most positive way. My instructor is very passionate about flying; he doesn’t like having to cancel a flight and loves to be able to get airborne too, which is great.

So we took off and this time flew south instead of north, due to the weather conditions they were slightly better around Chester. Once we were set up he went through the instruments in more detail and shown me how to do the radial scan (how sad is this; I remember this from reading the MS Flight Sim 2004 ground school and know what he means by radial scan)! I know a PPL cant fly through cloud, but the use of the instruments is in the syllabus and is still a very important part of flying, so getting used to them at this stage was very satisfying for me, I don’t find them a rocket science at all and with a little practice I was flying straight and level, climbing and descending (cruise), turns whilst climbing etc. We then went through the different bank angles and those which best to use during different attitudes of flight, for example no more the 20 degrees of bank in a descending turn etc. Each of the top white lines on the attitude indicator being 10 degrees of bank. I didn’t find this too difficult, and before long I was performing these manoeuvres using the instruments and instruments alone.

I find that as my lessons progress I get more used to the use of the throttle. People may be thinking “How hard can it be?” but the movement of around 3mm of the throttle can be the difference in 5 kts airspeed and can effect straight and level flight etc. I have been using around 2250 rpm to maintain 90kts straight and level cruise. On different days it has to be more, sometimes less. This is an experience thing, and something that can only be mastered with years of use, and I will take a guess in saying that it is the same on most aircraft. This is all IMHO of course, I only have 5 hours!

Today was good in terms of wind, being that there was none at all. It is amazing at how the landing is effected by a small breeze. Once I had the aircraft in trim and on the correct approach, it basically flew itself to the runway, which is physics for you. I find that upon flare, reducing the power to idle, it is a natural reaction to let the nose hit the ground, but I have to maintain back pressure for quite some time (were talking 3-5 seconds) to let the plane sink onto the runway nicely, and not let it go down too quick, which would damage the nose wheel, amongst other possible things.

Another good thing now that I have done it a few times is the walk around. My instructor lets me go onto the apron and do the walk around by myself, with the fuel drainer and all (I must sound like a kid) and perform the entire checklist. Starting at the left side, checking the avionics are off, master on, landing/strobe lights on, check, pitot heat, fuel vent, stall warning, control surfaces, undercarriage, tires, master off and it goes on! This is a great feeling as it is the first insight into some kind of responsibility towards the flight, and the fact that my instructor has faith in me, which is a good confidence builder. Don’t worry, the instructor still checks over things and once we are in the cockpit he can let me do all the checks and start-up etc, because he is there!

In summary today was a strain on the brain from a normal VFR lesson. Scanning each of the 6 main instruments can take it out of you, especially holding a turn or an approach. Speaking of approach, I got the first insight into the ADF, which seems basic enough, however, I did notice that it was important to obtain a specific heading from the ADF, then follow that, rather that the ADF needle, otherwise, as you pass the beacon the needle turns and I can imagine you would eventually start flying spirals! It was great also because after the flight, me and another chap (new PPL student) went out together and done the detailed walk through with the instructor, so learned a fair bit today.

Very much looking forward to tomorrow, which is exercise 9 (which should have been today) so will update again tomorrow afternoon. I would also like to thank you lot for keeping up with my diary and for continuing to read it, and hope you are still liking it. Without you following it, it would be pointless in doing it, CHEERS!

Lee.

[Capt. Manuvar]

Keep it coming Mazzy. I'm sure you must now be looking forward to this (http://www.harvsair.com/aircadets/2004/progress/MVI_0283.AVI)
:E
Capt. M

[mazzy1026]

Hour 6 was a revision lesson, as there was too much mist in the area for ex9. We tried climbing above it, but as my lesson was at 1200 rather than the usual 0900, it was too high to rise above. So we done some more instrument work, climbs and descents, to brush up on previous lesson. I used the radios a fair bit today, giving position reports, approach requests etc. One thing that we heard over the radio from Liverpool tower to another aircraft after take off:

"you have a tail knot ten wind"

Poor guy got his words mixed up, which was quite funny at the time :p

So this lesson was simply marked as 'Rev' in the logbook, which is good as it helps me retain the skills I have learned in previous lessons and not let them fade out. One problem I had today was that on the landing, I reduced power to idle too quick, i rotated and should have waited a little longer before cutting power. It's funny because it seems that you are going to touchdown when really you still have a fair way to go!

Hopefully I will get airborne tomorrow, but due to forecast rain it may be unlikely :(

Until then!

Lee :)

[mazzy1026]

Today the mist that has been lingering around for a few weeks seemed to have finally buggered off, so we had a very good horizon to do turns. After a few more climbs and descents, my instructor begin to explain turns, explaining that a standard turn would involve a 30 degree bank (if not climbing or descending) and 15 degrees otherwise. I had read in the ex9 chapter, that because you are sat on the left, then you observe a different view out the cockpit when turning, because on a right turn you are higher, and on a left turn you are lower - the difference of the nose being above or below the horizon was actually quite significant, and without the use of the VSI or if you had no knowledge of the subject, then it would be very easy to gain/lose altitude in a turn.

I performed a few 360 degree turns at 30 degrees level, both left and right, then some more turns whilst climbing/descending, only using 15 degrees. The controls become much more sloppy at slower airspeeds, so it becomes more difficult to maintain a good attitude if the aircraft is not trimmed properly.

I was also shown how to perform the missed approach (not near the airfield). The procedure is to apply full power, pitch nose up to best angle climb (65kts), once level flight is obtained, reduce flap to stage 1, once 200 has passed, obatin best rate of climb at 70kts and resume. Seems pretty straight forward. My instructor actually had to perform one in the previous lesson to me, so maybe thats the reason why he shown me at this point.

Today we flew south over Cheshire instead of north - the weather was excellent with some beautiful cloud formations, very sunny indeed. I have made extensive use of the radios today, making most of the calls. The sky was very busy, at one point there was a kit helicopter at 200ft to our right, which wasnt even on the radio. Someone taxiing saw something hanging off one of the 737's about to take off, so that was delayed at the holding point whilst it was checked, lots of radio activity which is all good for learning. Landing was very smooth and I was quite pleased with the way it went, this time I held it a lot more before touching down, just letting the stall warner go off - very good feeling when it goes well :D

Got MET exam on Wednesday so will be reading for that. Next lesson is on Friday.

Have a nice week and safe flying,

Lee

p.s check out the Liverpool thread in the bashes forum in the misc section, been trying to get a few people together. :)

[Sunfish]

I had a b*gger of a Saturday. 30kts of wind and rain with a twenty kt crosswind component.

So my intructor said it was time to learn crosswind landings. We postponed things for half an hour to let a particularly nasty squall go over, then I did a crosswind takeoff with ailerons held into wind until lift off.

The turbulence below three hundred feet was severe. I was flying the circuit with about twenty degrees of offset to compensate for drift.

Delayed descent on final because you are crawling along at 75 kts making maybe 35 over the ground.

Only 20 degrees flap, crab to keep the centreline and then right wing down and left rudder to hold centreline.

The aircraft was blown about like a leaf on final, big changes of power and attitude needed. After three tries including one partial success and two go arounds I gave it back to the instructor as I felt my confidence going.

After another demonstration I did two more and that was that. Not easy, but obviously its a necessary skill otherwise your flying is goign to be severely limited.

Four other idiots were doing the same thing in the circuit.

White knuckle dry mouth stuff at the moment.

[ThePirateKing]

Sunfish,

If you're doing 75kts on final and only making 35kts on the ground, you've got a 40kts headwind. Coupled with a 20kts crosswind, I figure you've got about 45kts of wind blowing at you from 27degrees from dead ahead.

Was flying in a 45kts wind a good idea? What is the max demonstrated crosswind (by a highly experienced test pilot) in your aircraft?

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[Sunfish]

Something like that at 1000 feet.. At ground level the tower gave us a crosswind component of 12 - 20 knots. Cessna 150's have a fifteen knot limit.

My instructor did it, I have to do it. CFI approves it and four other aircraft were doing it. The conditions were a little on the extreme side, that much was admitted, but 30 knot sea breezes are the norm in summer afternoons, so Iguess I juust better get good at it.

Better day today - no wind, steep turns, recovery from spiral dives, steep descending turns, then lunch and another hour of short takeoffs and landings, which went very well.

[ThePirateKing]

Sunfish,

Whilst it absolutely is necessary to learn crosswind landings, please don't go getting yourself killed because "other people were doing it" or because "the CFI said so". :(

Happy flying!

TPK:ok:

[Penguina]

I think this diary may help you retain your knowledge and skills better. When I first started learning, I did the same thing but privately and interestingly, my (initially pretty fast) progress slowed when I stopped doing it.

So keep it up.

Not that I'm thinking of myself at all here, you understand! ;)

[SkySista]

During my trawls thru libraries, bookshops etc, I came across (for me anyway) a gem of a book called Flight Discipline by Tony Kern. Deals with ways to make your flying safer whether you are a single pilot PPL or an airline pilot... also things like how to deal with situations where you may feel pressure to fly unsafely, whether from other pilots or traffic/circumstances......

I found it to be quite good in giving tips for making your thought process re: checklists, remembering important things. Have not completed it by any means but it looks promising! (Even has review questions at the end of the chapter) If any of you have read it and can offer some thoughts, PM me, or if Mazzy/mods think it's relevant to this thread...... ;)

Back on topic - keep 'em coming, guys(girls?) I'm really liking this thread....

Sky :)

[mazzy1026]

Bring it on Sista ! :D :D :D

[dgutte]

I am really enjoying your PPL diary.

As someone who has 6 hours from 10 years ago I am restarting next month (only be 1 hr per month though!).

Its good to read how things are going. Half the battle is getting a decent instructor, which you have by the sounds of it.

[mazzy1026]

Today has been the best flight I have ever had. I am on a high at the moment after such a superb time. Just got back from the airfield and already looking forward to tomorrow’s lesson. Firstly, I just found out that I passed Met, got 80% and am well chuffed, I took the exam yesterday and I really was doubtful over the outcome, to have passed is great for me. The weather today is exceptional, very high visibility, plenty of great sunshine and some beautiful cloud formations, not causing any problem, with a reasonably high base. We flew out over the north, then on to Wigan, toward Manchester. We over flew the JJB stadium, then used the Bolton Reebok stadium as a turning point, back towards the east. As the visibility was good, the scenery was beautiful and I could distinctively see different towns and villages. I pointed out to my instructor that it is a lot easier to orientate yourself with the surroundings on such a clear day. I think I am slowly getting used to the local environment and finding it progressively easier to say where I am and put the aircraft where I want it.

Ok so onto the training. We got set up for slow flight then the controls were handed back to me, I had to maintain the slow flight attitude of around 70kts, 0 on the VSI, and use my left and right hand (throttle and controls) simultaneously to keep the aircraft in this state. The first couple of minutes I used to get used to the more sloppy controls, and once I had a grip on the state of the aircraft and its attitude, I was managing to hold it like this for quite some time. I am aware that I need to do 4 hours of slow flight (minimum) so this is a great way to build it up. Then onto a demonstrated stall, to get a taste of them and to prep for the next lesson. Now I have a cousin who is the CFI at an international airport, who told me to watch out for wing drops, as they are fun and great to perform. I didn’t read up on them at first as I like the element of surprise, but as I was coming to them eventually in the training, I covered them in flying training. So we set up for the stall, idle power, maintain nose level to reduce speed, pitch nose up to stall (the stall warning buzzer is going mental) and there we have it, a stall, felt by a quick zero G and a loss of about 250 feet, however, there was also a very impressive wing drop in there too, a sharp roll to the right as the wing lost it’s lift and were away. A quick recover with full power, nose level, rudder/aileron as required and we are back in straight and level flight. Nothing to it right (well there is more to it). Stall’s can be made at any airspeed and several different attitudes, and the purpose of this training is to learn what the aircraft feels like when it is APPROACHING a stall, so that you can recover form it BEFORE it happens, this is important as prevention is better than cure.

I must admit that performing the wing drop was intense fun and those reading who have not yet done one will, I am sure, love it too. It did put a smile on my face. However, I will only think these are fun if I induce one myself. If a wing drop was ever to occur without me forcing it, I guess that it would be pretty scary indeed and a quick reaction is needed.

We had a crosswind today too, which I was glad about because, as said in a previous entry, I always thought crosswinds would be difficult. I have to admit, I am enjoying my landings more and more every time, mostly because I am getting used to what to expect, and I love it when they go well, such a great feeling. The only thing is, I know that there isn’t a pilot in the world who doesn’t have the occasional rough landing, so when I have one, I will tell people so that I can learn from it and stay on the never ending aviation learning curve.

To summarise: if I were taking a friend on a jolly of the local area, with some included excitement, then today would be that flight. Absolutely fantastic and loving every minute.

Best regards

Lee :D :D :D

P.S a quick question – do you think I am doing the exams too quick? I am will generally be having one lesson per week through uni, which I will finish in May – I now have 18 months to pass the remainders. Thanks.

[Human Factor]

My advice is get the exams out of the way ASAP and enjoy the flying. This thread brings back some happy memories.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but if you haven't already, check-out First Light by Geoffrey Wellum, a (the?) first-rate flying diary. You'll see how little has changed in sixty years.

:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

May I confess that I find this very useful.

I earn my living testing and approving new, usually light, aeroplanes. One of the main things such aeroplanes get used for is training - hearing about your trials and tribulations I find quite helpful in refreshing my mind about what is important in the characteristics of such aeroplanes.

Please don't stop.

G

[mazzy1026]

Had a corker of a hangover this morning, you know when you go out and say to yourself “right I’ll only have a couple then stop, or I’ll regret it tomorrow”. Well I said that and it didn’t work. Any hows, getting back to my diary.

This lesson was an extension to the previous one, and I am building up slow flight time nicely. We done some more stalls, and learned different methods of recovery, like nose down, reach 60kts and no power, then the same but with power. On one of the recovery procedures, I shot the control column forward too fast and the aircraft leapt forward (great who needs a diet when you can lose 10 stone in 2 seconds?), the problem I was having was that because an immense amount of back pressure is required to keep the nose up attitude, there is always a constant pressure forwards, so when recovering, you don’t need to apply too much forward pressure, you simply control the natural force of the controls wanting to go forward, in a controlled manner. So onto full power, 60kts, wings level, back into the climb.

One thing that was more difficult to overcome was the fact that the yolk has to remain centred as much as possible, as not to induce too much angle of attack on one wing – so even if there is a slight roll as a result of the stall, I still have to keep the controls centred as much as possible – I recall from the flying training manual that roll can actually occur in the opposite direction to that of the controls in a stall attitude. One thing also today that we covered, was a spiral descent – fantastic manoeuvre to say the least. This involves banking to a high bank angle (at first I was thinking, surely this type of aircraft cant handle a bank this big) and letting the nose drop, then, to stop the nose dropping, applying back pressure – this makes the airspeed SOAR away bloody quick, I couldn’t believe how fast that needle shot round the dial – so as demonstrated, the power comes off, wings go level, nose up, power back on. I also performed it without removing the power, simply by rolling the wings level before pitching up, then straight into a climb to knock the airspeed off. I don’t know about any of you people, it may kind sound of sad, but I love a good high G feeling, its truly amazing.

I have started to develop my own external checks. The order of my checks roughly goes as follows (I wont include everything here for obvious reasons): firstly, master on with anti collision lights, pitot heat and landing light. Then outside to check these work, as well as the stall warning buzzer. Once happy, master off then to carry on with the rest of the checks. I use the fuel drainer to check the fuel etc and that from the engine, also looking into the tanks. Then I move onto the engine, looking under both cowlings. After this, I then go onto the surfaces, control surfaces, flaps, undercarriage etc. I find that doing it this way is better as it helps me to remember them in a more logical way. The order in the checklist seems a bit odd. I know this is ok, as long as I don’t miss anything out (as my instructor rightly said) so I still carry the checklist with me, and go over every item to make sure I haven’t missed anything out.

I must confess that I got a little carried away today. I was still on a high from yesterday and I think I went through my internal checks a little quick. I missed the door latch and seemed to be racing ahead, missing a couple of things out like checking left and right magnetos. So after I settled down a little I was ok. Again, the RT is coming along nicely, one thing I am trying to remember is that I should only abbreviate my call sign once ATC has done so. It’s great as my instructor is allowing me, I’d say 90% of the radio usage – it just makes the lesson a lot more satisfying when it goes right. I’ve written down a couple of the major calls, like when first contacting tower/approach. Giving position reports and intentions – I read these to myself when I drive, each time changing words (i.e. for different locations etc) and it don’t half sink in quick – its great.

Gonna start reading the human performance book, not to chase the exam, but purely as a progression thing.

Cheers

Lee ;)

[Sunfish]

Last three lessons have been short takepoff and landing and then Forced Landings.


Short take offs and landings are fun, at least with a 3000 foot strip to practice them on!

Forced landings first lesson was easy as we had a grass strip to "pretend" to land on. Start at 3500 feet, select high key and low key, fly downwind, base and break off final at 500 feet.

Second lesson a little harder, you are flying along and instructor pulls carb heat on and throttle back to simulate a failure, and you have to get through the whole procedure while flying the approach.

ie: Tradespeedforhieghttrimtobestglideat65knotscheckfirecarbheat fuelquantityfuelselectormixturemastermagnetofieldsizeshapesl opesurfaces(over&under)shoots(c)sivilisationcyclefuelmixturemasteroilpressure andtempswitchesthrottlemaydaymaydaymaydayxyzxyzlocationpobih aveenginefailure -followed by the passenger brief and finally the BUSH checks - all while setting up and performing a gliding approach to your field of choice.

Next lesson their will be no warnings given nor height specified.

[magpienja]

Hi mazzy, reading your posts with interest, I am not a pilot but would love to be one, but do fly with a mate at liverpools LFS, just wondering your progress seems excellent and I see you are a user of MS flt sim products, do you think they have helped you with what you have done up to now and if so with what aspects, I somehow think I know what your answer will be, keep up the good work mazzy.

Regards Nick.

[mazzy1026]

Sunfish - keep up the practice. Good to see you are dong well!

Nick, MS flight sim is good to a certain extent, it helps you learn the basic controls and is great for practicing instrument work. Try not to develop your own style or habits though when using it, as the real thing is quite a bit different. I read the ground school notes which are scratch on the surface of most of the PPL topics, dont forget though they are written by an American with a dodgy sense of humour!

You should let me know when you are next at LFS - perhaps we could meet up.

Cheers

Lee

[Hampshire Hog]

Hi Mazzy and all,

Good to be back on here at last after several weeks on the ground (work and weather!).

Spent an hour this morning going around in circles at Wycombe. Rain showers forecast and the base was around 1000', but actually quite good visibility and fairly smooth.

Thanks to everyone's advice, I'm beginning to get the landing flare right, but still getting a regular B**locking from my instructor for being too rough with the rudder throughout the touch and go.

Mazzy, I'm sure you've said somewhere earlier on the thread, but reading your posts about pre-flight and stalling made me wonder what you are learning on. Mine's the Warrior - nice stable aircraft, but why a manual flap lever?!!! (My arms are quite short and I have one hell of a reach to pull it up off the floor).

The Human Performance book is one of the more readable - enjoy it!

Long term forecast is more settled - so maybe some more hours over the next couple of weeks???

[Captainkarl]

Ill chat here to, very isolated in my house really im 15 so I tend to go on a bit about my flying to my parents!! Im a PPL student with roughly 21/22 hours under my belt! Flew to the Isle Of Wight (Sandown) and got a taxi to the main town for lunch! Recommend that for others very nice little place!

Seeya!

[mazzy1026]

Evening Hampshire Hog! Keep up the practice on those flares! With regards to the flap lever, it generally doesnt cause me a problem (I train in the PA38 Tomahawk) apart from when you have your harness too tight!

CaptainKarl: welcome to Pprune! there is no better place to talk about flying. This is a superb place for information and contains a wealth of good advice. Do not be afraid to post questions if you have one, that's what it's for.

Please do keep posting - best regards,

Lee
:ok:

[Captainkarl]

Thanks for the "warm" welcome (it ain't warm its raining):O So who in here is a pilot?

[Vee One...Rotate]

Well, there's a lot of fledgling pilots in this here thread but on PPRuNe in general?

According to the front page, there's about 600 people online RIGHT NOW, meaning there's literally thousands of regular visitors...and a lot of the forums are specifically geared towards current aircrew...bottom line, I think it's fair to say, is that there will be thousands of pilots who use these forums...like mazzy says, a great resource for pilot wannabees!

Welcome to PPruNe :ok:

V1R

[Sunfish]

Forced landing practice again yesterday. Flying the plane is not he issue, its now about selecting the right field and the high and low key points, ie airmanship. I'm taking too long to do this.

[Hampshire Hog]

Hi Sunfish,

I have done several EFATO exercises, but not the detailed 'forced landing' stuff yet. Having said that, I guess the speed of your decision making will come with practice - it's like learning those 'before landing' checks off by heart - first time it's laboured and adds to the mental overload - gradually gets easier.

I was on a (management) course a while ago with a gliding instructor (owned his own school) who was also a PPL. He was complaining that, as a very experienced glider, he could put a plane down in just about any field from almost any position, but on revalidating his PPL for the forced landing his instructor insisted he do the spiral descent/circuit and that totally screwed him up!

Keep up the practice.

Welcome Capt. Karl. As has been said, this is a very good place to discuss your flying. Don't worry about the occasional negative response from 'les miserables', we try to encourage them to leave asap! My wife gets fed up with me talking about flying too - so I understand your situation with your parents - they just don't get it do they? What are you learning on?

Paul

[FingersR]

Hi Guys,

Glad to see theres quite a few of us going for our "wings":ok: :O Hope its okay to contribute to this thread Mazzy?

I amassed my first 10 hours at the tail end of last year and then needed to pass Air Law and Human Factors before soloing. Sadly work and life got in the way and I had to suspend my training :( Nevertheless things are looking up as I have had the time to refocus and last week passed my Human Factors exam! Busy battling through Air Law now (I really recommend the Transair CBT course on it!) and hope to take and pass it in the next week or so. Then its back in the air for me! Cannot wait! :cool:

Fingers

[tired-flyboy]

I got to the point of my skills test - ran out of money (poor student! gotta pay bills etc!) and had to choose flying or continuing to stay with the missus!

The missus won!

However about to start NATS and get 15hrs of flying training so with a bit of luck might get this finished after all!

Mazzy and the rest - good luck, keep at it.

:ok:

[FingersR]

Hi Tired Fly Boy! Good for you! Hope it allworks out well for you! :)

[c-bert]

Funds are a kicker aren't they? Done two of my solo x-country and have now pretty much run out of cash for the next couple of months. Its a pain because I'm not going to be able to fly again until the winter when the weather is rubbish. Maybe some nice chap will offer me a job in the states and I can learn on the cheap.....:rolleyes:

[Hampshire Hog]

c-bert

As a humble public servant, I sympathise with your predicament. Funds, wife, child etc - all designed to ensure moderation in my newfound hobby!

Just to keep your practice up, do you know any qualified PPLs who are happy to take passengers/students flying? Quite a few people seem to blog a little extra (unofficial) time at the controls by that method. Even if they won't let you fly, they might be happy for you to navigate etc. (Can't wait to get onto x-countries now!!!)

Flying as you do, from S'oton, maybe there are some ATPLs around who like to do a little recreational flying and would be prepared to share costs?

[mazzy1026]

So who in here is a pilot?

By the looks of it, a few more in X amount of months time! :D :D :D

Hope its okay to contribute to this thread Mazzy?

You dont even need to ask - it aint my thread, it's ours! Keep em coming!

I know what you all mean by funding (doesnt everyone). If I have too many lessons too soon, then I will run out of cash then wont be able to fly for a while - so I need to take it easy. Keep posting progress and hurdles, it's a great learning resource.

Best of luck

Lee :ok:

[c-bert]

Not a bad idea HampshireHog but unfortunately, due to the nature of So'ton it ain't a very social place. We all pretty much turn up, check out the aircraft and go. Not hanging around after either.
It's a shame Goodwood is so expensive as I think it would probably be a more friendly place to learn (and its just a close to me).

On an aside I think this thread is increadibly useful and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside seeing all the other people going through the same sort of thing as me. Keep it up guys, hope to see some of you sometime. :ok:

[deltamike02]

Hi everyone!

Mazzy & others, hope you don't mind me making my very first post on this thread!

Being a 11 hour PPL student, it's great to see that other people are going through exactly the same as me and this thread is a great help in learning.

I am currently doing circuits and am managing them fine except for the flare. The approach is usually perfect but it all falls to pieces when I get near the runway, usually failing to keep the nose attitude high enough and meeting the tarmac too quickly.:ouch:

I am doing my training in a C172. Does anyone have any tips?

I know exactly what the money problems are like. I was fortunate to manage to take my first 10 hours over a fairly short period of time, however, those funds are now gone and I will probably only manage 2 hours a month for the foreseeable future, which is a pain because once the 'bug' bites you just keep want to keep it going. Is anyone else only managing this amount each month? How do you find it?

Keep this excellent thread going.:ok:

[c-bert]

The flare takes practice and that's about all there is to it. Just try not to foxus on one point but take in the whole picture out of the canopy and 'feel' for the runway with the aircraft in a slightly nose high attitude.

As for the cash, I've been doing 1 lesson a week for several months with no problems but I'm now going to have to cut down to probably the same as you. It's not ideal but if that's all you can afford then that is all you can afford...

[FingersR]

Hi DeltaMike!

Im learning in a C152 and love it! I wonder if the 152 and 172 are similar from a handling point of view? Prior to stopping my practical training (needed to pass those darned exams before solo!) I was around the same number of hours and found the flare came with practice and my instructors constant words of "keep flying it" in my ears before touchdown. I found it easy to become too hung on on actually "landing" the plane rather than letting it land itself, if you get what I mean...

Have you passsed your air law and Human Factors yet?

Fingers

[Hampshire Hog]

c-bert

Don't really know it, but what about Old Sarum? Bit of a drive, but not too far and I've heard reports that they're more of a friendly club.

Welcome Delta Mike.

In practice, I've only managed about 2 lessons per month, with the odd extra one thrown in from time to time. It's not too bad. I have found if I have to miss a lesson for one reason or another that it can take a few minutes to get back into things, but everyone has good and bad lessons anyway so it could just be attributed to that. I know many articles on learning to fly suggest at least one lesson per week, but it really depends on how good you are at learning and remembering things. I fill in between lessons with the odd session of FS2004 - has its limits, but good for recall of key points. The British Airports and Photo-scenery add-ons help. And when you can't fly, there's always those exams to read up on!

If you look at some of the earlier posts, you'll see we had some discussion about the landing flare. It seems to be a sticking point for many people and probably the best bit of advice I've heard is just to keep looking further along the runway than you're probably comfortable with! Hopefully, someone can give you more specific help on the Cessna.

[deltamike02]

c-bert, FingersR, & Hampshire Hog

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll need to believe my instructor when she's telling me "dont' land!". I have a couple of hours booked in just over a weeks time, lets see if I can master it then.

FingersR - As far as the diferences between the 152 & 172 go, I have flown a couple of hours in a 152 and the one thing that struck me for straight and level flight was the engine cowling on the 172 slopes down much more than the 152 which caused a bit of confusion as you could see much more of the horizon and took a bit of getting used to. The space is another factor. There's much more space than the 152 and being fairly tall this is an advantage. Whilst the club has a couple of 152s I am happy to pay the slightly higher hourly rate for this alone, coupled with the fact the 172 is more readily available for bookings when it suits you. The bigger engine gives a great rate of climb and the 172 is much more stable in the air being that bit heavier, however, I have been told this makes it a little bit harder to fly. Whether this is true or not but its a great excuse when you don't get those flares right!

I passed my air law exam a few weeks past and I am currently reading meteorlogy with a view to sitting that exam in a few weeks time. I think that human factors is the next one that my club recommends I do after this. Is it easy to follow and understand?

[Hampshire Hog]

I haven't taken the exam, but human factors is probably the easiest to understand of all the subjects, if you have a basic understanding of human biology and you've ever done a first aid course! I'm doing Met next - seems to have some complicated bits. Did you find anything particularly difficult?

Paul

[c-bert]

I found human factors very easy. And it's only a very short exam as well. Looking through thte Q&A books there are three or four questions that always come up (although I can't remember them off hand:( ). I'm still studying for Met though as there seems to be an awful lot to remember and all the info is very similar i.e. cloud types associated with warm/cold fronts.
Nav is quite enjoyable if you fancy a break from met, but it pays to have done a couple of practical nav lessons before you get really stuck in as some of it makes a lot more sense then.
I found aircraft (general) to be quite straight forward but then my degree is in aeronautical engineering so some might say I have an unfair advantage! :ok:
R/T theory was quite simple as well, at least once you've been using the radio for a good 20 hours.
Still have R/T prac and flight planning to go though.....:confused:

[Penguina]

I think you notice the difference between the 152 and 172 most on climb-out (much less of a struggle!), approach and land (needs more precision to pull it off) and - most of all - go-around (the amount of forward pressure on the column needed before you retrim is considerably more).

[tired-flyboy]

DeltaMike02

I was learning in both the C152 and C172,

I was always told to wait till the last 50' then level off, then very very slowly pull back on the control column till it was almost in your belly!

But thats what all the good text books say!

I had problems with judging the flare height and one day found that a quick glance out the side window (assuming your in the middle of the RW), when i could see the runway edge at the bottom of the spar that was when to cut the power and glide the remainder.

Obviously this depends on the length of runway- but EGPF has a hell of a long runway for a small plane!

Hope that helps but it takes time and patience and a few bounces till you get it right!!


:ok:

[FingersR]

The 172 sounds fun! :D At some point in my training I'd like to have a go in a PA38 "TerrorHawk" - Although I love my C152, theres something about low wing aircraft that looks cool!

I found Human Factors quite starightforward - I found going through the book ( Im using the Pratt books) and then making sure i got at least 90% consistently using the PPL Confuser before I took it meant I went in full of confidence. Hope to get airlaw out of the way this or next weekend and then its back in the air and hopefully solo after a few hours!

Got the Nav & Met Pratt book last wekeend and had a flip though. Met appears to be a lot to understand but looks very interesting. Will probably become a weather bore as well as a flying bore - my poor wife! :p Thats the next step after airlaw for me. I also been using the Transair CBT course for airlaw and found it an excellent tool. Will certianly be investing in the Met one too!

Fingers

[Hampshire Hog]

Fingers,

'You're not going to become a weather anorak are you?!!!' My wife's words only a couple of days ago as I was gazing skywards and making comments about 'embedded CB'! Have to remember to keep my mouth shut sometimes.

Paul

[c-bert]

You think that is bad? Wait until you start learning Practiced Forced Landings. 'Field anorak' anyone?
I recently had the opportunity to go up as pax over in Houston. My only constructive comment was, "Gosh, aren't your fields big over here....."

[FingersR]

LOL Chaps! ::D Good job we have each other to chat to instead about these things! :ok:

[mazzy1026]

Glad I am not the only one who talks about these things with the wife/girlfriend etc. I have passed the air law, and most recently MET - I always find myself gazing into the sky naming clouds and stuff like that - its good in a way because this is stuff that we all should know, not just pilots. The MET is basic stuff when you consider the weather as a whole and its something that people take for granted. I think its great to be able to understand WHY the weather is the way it is - I mean, how many people do you know that could give you a reasonable explanation as to why clouds formed? And as to why the clouds seem to move in a slightly different direction to the wind (corolis effect). Once you have read the book and learned the questions, try and use this new found knowlede when outdoors, even when seeing weather reports on TV - you can see occluded/cold/warm fronts on the chart and I bet not a lot of people could tell you what they are. My girlfriend must get so fed up of me talking about flying and weather and allkinds all the time - but it will pay off one day when I can put my money where my mouth is and take her flying for the first time, only then will she appreciate the true value of all this learning and cost and all the :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: that goes with it. I think that people just dont understand all this until they experience it for themselves. Sometimes I find myself explaining to people WHY I am studying for a PPL? Like its any of their business to question my intrest, but like I said - those people who know nothing and say everything, and who are always off the mark to criticise, will never know anything until they can do it for themselves!!

Back on the exam side of things - I thought the MET wasnt too bad. The only thing I thought was quite difficult was looking at various METARS/TAFS and having to pick one which closely matched the metform chart - some of the questions seemd a little vague but with practice it can slowly start to make sense. The one thing that I would recommend after passing your exams, especially the MET, is to always keep looking at weather reports each day, and definately before you fly - you will then be able to appreciate them more and learn them better.

Enough of my rumble (I do enough of it in here dont I :8 )

Thanks all - this is great reading for me also - please keep it coming :ok:

Lee

[radarcontrol]

Hi mazzy...


Great Diary...keep it coming! I am almost in exactly the same situation as you. I have passed Air Law, Met and most recently Communications. I'm 3/4 of the way through Aeroplane Tech... which is a real ***** incidently. 12 hours 40 on the books.

I went solo this week and, weather permitting, should be back up there on my own tommorow. It was undoutedly the best experience of my life to date... I will never forget it. I am sure yours will be exactly the same when you get there... get excited!

RC

[SkySista]

Lol!

Can totally relate to the talking about planes/flying/weather/nav etc etc all the time - I have driven my family nuts for years with it!!! ;)

Has grown worse since started ground theory - had Met. & Air law last night. I was at my parents' the other week and the weather came on - my mother said 'okay smartypants, you tell us the weather, then we'll switch to the other channel and see if you're right"....... :p

PPrune is great for discussing all things aviation without driving my friends crazy..... on occasion I've been introduced with "This is SkySista*, she's the one that's crazy about planes...." :cool: (*not real name of course)

This thread helping a lot as to questions that I want to ask once I'm back flying....

As to not being able to fly often, the thing I've been drilled most often with, if you can't fly all the time, at least keep it regularly spaced - consistency is the key! And as has been said, try to read up on your stuff when not flying, to keep it fresh in your mind...

(Lecture over ;) )

Sky (the one who's crazy about planes.... lol

PS - For those of you in OZ who have/know someone with Foxtel, there's a program on (think Sunday mornings) on Discovery or similar, where a guy is building a kit plane, in between they go to the airfield and he shows the pre-flight checks etc. Also last night on Discovery, "Super Structures", they had a segment on Boeing's plant at Everett - completely awesome!!! Catch it if you can! :ok:

[Sunfish]

Beautiful day after two days of very windy weather.

Did four circuits with CFI who then got out and said "Off You Go".

One very careful circuit, uneventful landing and congratulations from the tower and that was that.

Now to build up a few hours solo in the circuit, then solo in the training area. After a few more lessons on precautionary landing, low flying and so on its the General Flight Proficiency Test (GFPT) with that and a pass in basic aeronautical knowledge (BAK) its into a Piper Warrior and Navigation training for the final PPL test.

[SkySista]

Congrats Sunfish! Must have been awesome!! You're lucky you got some nice weather - it's been really crappy here (WA) for the last week or two - one cold front after another (yes, I've been doing Met.! :p )

Good luck with the Nav. training!

Sky

[Fly Stimulator]

SkySista,

there's a program on (think Sunday mornings) on Discovery or similar, where a guy is building a kit plane, in between they go to the airfield and he shows the pre-flight checks etc.
That sounds like the series "A Plane is Born" in which Mark Evans (with more than a little help - seen and unseen) builds a Europa and learns to fly at Gloucestershire.

Watching the build was OK, but the segments on his lessons were the most entertaining bits I found. The programme has a web site at www.aplaneisborn.com (http://www.aplaneisborn.com/). They're selling DVDs of it there, though it does (or at least did) seem to get repeated fairly reguarly on the various Discovery channels in the UK at least.

[FingersR]

Congrats Sunfish! Very well done! :ok:

[mazzy1026]

This morning the weather looked completely cr*p - I drove to the airfield anyway and it was decided that we would do an hour in the training room, talking about the circuit. My instructor gave me an hour lesson on the circuit which was an excellent insight into the process. I really learned a lot today in this lesson, and coming towards the end I just couldnt wait to get up and flying - which is what we then did!

Preflighted the aircraft and got her started up ready to taxi, only to realise we had forgot the headsets - a quick jog back to the school.....

Today was a VERY windy day, we saw gusts up to 25kts and my instructor said that this is the worst you will see it, and wouldnt really fly in anything worse. We done 5 circuits, 4 left and one right due to traffic. It was awesome and it is suprising how quick they go, before you know it, after taking off you are preparing to land! The general procedure was take off, crab the aircraft to maintain runway line, get to 200ft, do various checks, trim aircraft. Once at 500ft, start the turn and then continue to ascend to 1000ft - again, ensuring sufficient crabbing technique to maintain correct line (we had to do quite a lot of crabbing today).

Once at a 1000ft and generally 45 degrees from the end of the runway, begint the base leg. A quick call to tower "[callsign] downwind". Then comes the traffic information and instructions, either number one or number 2, followed by the recommended guidelines for separation between larger aircraft. Then the BUMFFPICHLC (who can give me all of these? And who hasn't bought their checklist??) hahaha.

Onto base, again with a quick call and into the descent. Power to around 1700rpm, maintain nose up, slow down, one level of flap because of strong (very strong) x-wind and away we go to landing. Today I was making full use of the controls in order to put her down correctly, there was a hell of a crab in order to maintain centre line. My instructor pointed out that it was difficult for my first attempt at circuits, but from this lesson onwards, the conditions can only be better (or equal) and things will seem easier next time. I am completely satisfied with the way things went today and am glad that I have got some experience (although very little) of windy conditions, as like I have said a few times, this was one of my original fears. Bloody marvellous and cant wait for next lesson, as always!

SkySista - you are a legend!

Congrats to those who have just gone solo, I get nervous/excited just reading about it. :p

Safe flying,

Lee :ok:

[Hampshire Hog]

Sunfish,

Congratulations!!!!! I'm pretty close to my first solo and can't make up my mind whether to look forward to it or be extremely nervous - same as Mazzy really, but I haven't been up in such strong crosswinds yet!

Keep it up all!

HH

[Captainkarl]

He has also built a helicopter and some others!

Paul: I fly a Robin HR200 (Which I cannot find for fs2004 can anyone help?)

[SkySista]

Errr... forgive the brain lapse Mazzy, but what for....?

I once flew a Robin, not sure what type it was, it had a "bubble domw" if that helps.....?

Lovely little plane, looked greatin black with a yellow chequer scheme on it..... bloody hot in summer though!!!!! ;)

Sky

[mazzy1026]

SkiSista

For the bits about how you are asked to describe the weather amongst your family and also how you are becoming known to your friends as the "aviator" if you like. Just a friendly joke :ok:



Lee :8

[FingersR]

Hi Kaptain Karl,

I had a look through avsim and flightsim and the only Robin that seems to be available is a HR400. This post heres seems to support this http://www.visualflight.co.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1851

If you are still interested in getting a HR400 (which apprently is similar) try going here:

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=22485
http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=42704


This is the best model by the looks of it is one and was developed for FS2002 and then adapted for 2004. You ill need to get both files to get it to run well on FS2004. Any probs, please give me a shout!

Fingers

[SkySista]

Lol, no worries Mazzy....

Was a bit sleep-deprived when reading that post, brain checked out last night in Air Law and hasn't come back yet.... ;)

(How many lessons do we have to spend flipping thru the AIP to find the right section because someone made a typo on the handout....? argggh......)

Geez Sunfish, you're game doing X winds in that kind of weather, I have to say I'm a bit more timid (usually)

Though my driving has been getting worse.... does that mean I'm a pilot yet? :E

Sky

PS - Yup Mazzy, it's gotten so a particular friend of mine, when we are at a party or whatever, will be in the background talking and will say things like "Cessna", "black box", "...it flew right overhead..." to see if he can get me to turn around and see what the convo is about.... ratbag!!!! :p

[mazzy1026]

Thats awful being teased like that, although can see it would be quite funny! Best thing to do is to take one of them flying when you get your license and then, when safe to do so pretend to faint at the controls :E very irresponsible and dangerous I know - but could you ever imagine the look on their face? Makes me laugh just thinking about it :E

Yours,

the evil one :D

[SkySista]

Yes!!! Have been thinking evil thoughts of that type, this friend is just asking for it!!!! :E :E :E

Was thinking more of waiting till I can get an aerobatics rating, flying along nice and easy, then doing a sudden wing drop or stall turn or similar (with prior approval of course!) and scaring the daylights out of him!

Can guarantee no more teasing!! ;)

But the fainting idea is priceless!!! :ok: It'd be great to get ATC in on the trick too but I suppose that'd be illegal.....

Sky

[mazzy1026]

It'd be great to get ATC in on the trick too but I suppose that'd be illegal.....

Jesus wept - that would be truly priceless - I would pay to see something like that, however, as you said, it would probably be illegal - but who needs ATC? I am sure the initial event would be frightening enough!! :E

[SkySista]

Oh I am sure it would be, but a transmission of "passenger in XYZ callsign, if you can hear us, it seems your pilot is incapacitated, you may have to land yourself...." would really ratchet up the suspense :E

But, definitely illegal (not to mention worrying for everyone else in the circuit....!

Back on topic - how's the flying going Sunfish? Mazzy? Hog? etc etc ;)

Sky

[mazzy1026]

Wasnt it such a crappy weather system this morning? Nothing but pelting rain and low stratus cloud all over the place. Well, I was pretty sure my flight would be cancelled, but as it was later in the afternoon, thought I would hang out and see. As it turns out, I got a phonecall asking if I could go any earlier - so off I was.

Turned up to nice blue sky and high cloud base, but again, quite gusty wind. Today was more stalling. We done stalls in the turn, stalls with flaps and stalls at full power. The stall with the turn was an interesting one, because depending on the way your are turning there is a different method of recover. For example, when stalling to the left, the aircraft wants to yaw to the left when you apply full power (slipstream effect), so you need a good amount of right rudder, or you will end up in a spirl descent, the airspeed will shoot up and you lose height very quick. Wait for the airspeed to reach 60, level wings then begin the climb. Pretty much the same for the right turn stall, but dont need as much, if any, left rudder, as the aircraft naturally yaws to the left.

One thing I will bear in mind, is that it is essential to keep the controls as level as possible and not be tempted to roll out of the turn on stall. This can cause a sudden wing drop and even worsen the roll already induced. The way to do it is by relieving back pressure, unstalliung the wings, applying full power also, THEN roll the wings level, then begin the climb.

Stalling with full flaps was a scary reminder/example of how an aircraft can stall without you knowing it as well as without flaps. When full flap is extended, the nose needs to be kept a lot lower, as the aircraft reaches the stall. It is quite scary as to how low the nose has to be, and still make a stall. I suppose this may catch you out when in final approach, a stall here would be pretty dangerous.

It was amazing the amount of crab we had to use to compensate for the drift due to the strong wind, when heading for a particular area, we found ourselves pointing at least 30 degrees to the right, in order to achieve the correct ground track. Upon turning downwind, the aircraft accelarated pretty quick, and this was easily noticed as we were close to the ground - quite a fantastic experience.

It wa snow time for a flapless approach. Instead of the 70kt nose low attitude, it was an 80kt shallow approach. This is quite significantly different to that of a full flap approach as the nose is a lot higher, and you are a lot closer to the ground for most of the approach. I canimagine it would take some practice to be able to perform different landing configurations on different days (hence circuit training!!). The landing seemed a lot more smoother - this may have been because of the more reactive controls due to the higher airspeed, and even the propwash producing the kinetic energy towards the wings, giving greater lift and handling.

All in all another superb lesson - I am learning so much the I never thought I could - and it is all slowly sinking into place. All the previous lessons are now being put into one; "the circuit".
Next lesson I will be doing quite a few circuits, so I will let you know how I get on with them.

Safe flights,

Lee :ok:

[Sunfish]

Went out again on Saturday for some more circuits. Did about four with Richard and then I did another two on my own.

There was this guy flying a 172 who was going all over the place, both taxiing and in the air. This brought to mind two things:

1) Thats what I must have looked like three weeks ago.

2) Instructors (at lest here) are engaged in "experiential learning" in other words they let us keep screwing things up and stop us just short of killing ourselves or damaging the airplane.

Case in point was Richard springing a go-around on me at 200 feet. Muggins here decided to raise flap from 30 to 20 BEFORE applying full power - mistake number one. We sank about 100 feet because , not content with raising the flap 10 degrees, I inadvertantly pushed the swiitch all the way up and the flaps merrily retracted completely! - Mistake number two.

You need to watch the flap switch on some 150's as there are two separate types. One has the type with a set of detents for 10,20,30 and 40 flaps with an indicator next to it.

The other has a separate indicator at eye height on the left front strut and a three position switch. There is a spring loaded flaps down position and middle neutral position and a fixed - not spring loaded, flaps up position. So if you select flaps up and don't return it to the centre the flaps will continue going up. I've done this twice now and I have to watch it.

[mazzy1026]

Sunfish, these are all good mistakes to make (if you know what I mean) because you have learned not to do it again! Learning by experience, i.e. learning by our mistakes, personally I think is the best way to learn something practical. When I am flying and I forget to do something or I do something wrong, like leave the landing lights on too long, I will consciously remember this for the next flight and make myself do it, so as to not make the same mistake twice. I suppose more bigger mistakes that might give you a bit of a fright, will stay with you longer!

Keep up the good work,

Lee :ok:

[Hampshire Hog]

Hi all,

Sunfish - belated congratulations on going solo!

Interesting experiences with the flaps! Now I'm glad the PA28 has a nice simple lever - even if I do struggle to reach it!

I had a good lesson yesterday too. 0900 cloud base was about 500', but sat in the club lounge drinking coffee with students and instructors - interesting chat about the likelihood of surviving ditching in the channel - before the base had risen to 900' and began to break. Apparently it's quite difficult to get a liferaft out of a light plane once ditched - we concluded the best chance was an immersion suit.

Nice load of circuits, but with a different instructor from my usual one (who was doing far more exciting things with a X country student). Began to sort my landings. Interesting how, if you're just not quite getting something, flying with a different instructor for a lesson can help and they all seem to focus on different things. Sure I'll get solo soon???

Keep it up folks!

HH

[FlyFreeWbe]

Can i just say, this is a really good idea mazzy. I'm in the finishing stages noow, but did some revision on stalls and such that u were talking about. Even did a wing drop, I swear the door was parallel to the ground!! :yuk: NOT a good situation to be in knowing how cessna's love to occasionally open their own doors..
Great day today, come on friday :ok:
FFW

I think Cessna have fixed the door problem now, no cause for alarm.. sorry

[Gertrude the Wombat]

knowing how cessna's love to occasionally open their own doors Fortunately, a Cessna door came open during my training.

So, when I took my first passenger for a ride and their door came open I'd had experience of this and wasn't worried and was perfectly happy just reaching across and shutting it and explaining that the door was just to keep the draught off, the seat belt was what stopped them falling out.

[mazzy1026]

Even did a wing drop, I swear the door was parallel to the ground!!

Same ere! My first wingdrop went something like that - it was not an induced one so it went a little quicker. I'm not sure really but, I think that an induced wing drop doesnt happen as fast as one that is accidental - whether this is because when you induce one yourself, you are expecting it, I am not sure. Perhaps those who know about this can explain, as I am guessing!

Goodnight

Lee

[FlyFreeWbe]

Gertrude
Im imagining the look on their face! lmao. Been lucky so far, my greatest worry is losing something important, like my checklist. It would be good to put that in the training syllabus, kinda like stalls, no biggy but 'be prepared'

mazzy
My FI kept saying 'make sure you're balanced, keep that ball centred'. If you're not paying attention when practicing then it can kinda sneak up on you :eek: I know what you mean though, like watching a pot boil. I guess the whole point is to not forget that a lot can happen in 5 minutes.

You know, I feel like reading up on stalls and lateral stability...
FFW

[c-bert]

Hi guys! Couldn\'t let this slip off the first page so I thought I\'d bump it up.
Haven\'t been doing too much flying recently due to a lack of funds but I did an hours PFLs last week. I\'m having real difficulty judging the glide angle and keep ending up too low or too high in the final stages. Oh well, practice makes perfect. 34 hours down - 11 to go......
Congrats to those who deserve it and good luck to everyone else! :ok:

[tmmorris]

Bit late now, but... Mazzy, your cr@ppy weather on Friday was exactly what I was hoping for. When you've done your PPL and got a bit of experience do an IMC rating (I did mine when I had about 70 hours total) - it's great fun, really it is... I went to Cranfield and did an ILS, then back to Kidlington for the NDB approach. If you've flown ILS's on Flight Sim you'll know how hard it is (and harder in real life as the weather is much less predictable!) but very satisfying.

I'd have done the flight on Friday anyway with foggles on if the weather had been good (it was a refresher with an instructor) but real bad weather was fantastic. We were popping in and out of the tops of the clouds at FL50 - beautiful. And there's nothing in flying quite as beautiful as the sight of the runway lights glimmering at you from the gloom as you break cloud at 650ft above the runway...

Good luck with it all - brings back so many happy memories...!

Tim

[FingersR]

took my airlaw this morning...gulp! Shoudl get results on tuesday!fingers and toes crossed! :ugh:

[mazzy1026]

On Sunday morning I arrived at the airfield, only to see that it was quite misty. I came from north of the airfield, where it was clear as I set off, so I was hoping the mist would dissipate soon, however, there was no wind and it was very calm. I was due to sit my human performance exam after the flight, which was booked for 1030, so instead I sat it first, in the hope that in the given time the mist would clear. I have to say that the exam was very easy indeed, by far easier than any of the others - but this is only because I studied well for it, like any of the exams - anyone can pass them with a good deal of study beforehand.

Anyway, the exam took 10 mins, so that wasnt really a lot of time to allow the weather to clear, and as it turns out I didnt end up flying. The thing is though, we would normally sit down with a cup of tea for a while and just wait, but there was another student after me so we couldnt delay things. Whilst driving home, the weather was perfect (driving back north) and I was soooo gutted not to be flying, only thinking that if I had booked the lesson for maybe 1130 instead, I would have been up there. I am not complaining of course, these things are done for a reason, but the worst feeling of dissapointment doesnt half set you up for a bad day! Sorry, I am just whinginmg now, I will get back to my pram :D

[FingersR]

Phew - passed! :D

[FlyFreeWbe]

Airlaw was good reading material. I recommend it for insomniacs. :E It's a shame they had you wait that long though, I'm got all my results straight after. Which one are you going for next?

[SkySista]

No, mazzy, you're not whinging (much ;) ) j/k.... if I had gone to go flying, and couldn't I'd be so disappointed too! Never mind you can 'go another day', it's always not quite as good as going 'today', is it?

(The fact that my chosen airport is a 50min+ drive doesn't help either.....

Congrats Fingers!!! Airlaw is okay I suppose, although it does get a little weird doing Nav., Met., & AGK at the same time.... I keep sitting in class listening to the instructor, going "Hmmmm...... I seem to have heard this somewhere before....." :D

We are starting Human factors in December. I have to say, it's one of my favorites because a) most of it is common sense and b) I find it really easy, as have done a unit on it in high school! ;)

Sky

[FingersR]

Thanks guys! Ive now passed Human Factors and Air Law. Human factors was interesting stuff and certianly the easier of the two! Im planning to do Met next followed by Nav. Sound like a good plan?

[c-bert]

If you are doing the examsn at the same time as flying I might suggest you do Nav first. That we it frees you up to actually fly some nav. That said, if you are still bashing the circuit may as well stick to Met first. Just my two GB pennies.

[FingersR]

Thanks C-Bert. Now ive got passed airlaw and Human Factors I can solo. The plan is to do that hopefully withinin 2/3 hours (not flown for a while so need to get back into the swing of things!) and then will probably be circuit bashing for a few hours after that 2 I expect. Think I will get Met out of the way and then concentrate on Nav when Im going to be using it practically in the air - apparently makes much more sense then!

[c-bert]

Sounds like a plan...:)

[Sunfish]

I have just returned with Beth from having an "incident". I now have a large glass of wine in front of me even though its only mid-afternoon.

I'm just finishing up some lessons before taking the general flight proficiency test. Today we left the playpen of the circuit and flew to the aero club's country airstrip to practice precautionary landings as well as an introduction to gravel strips and short takeoffs and landings.

Beth demonstrates the precautionary landing procedure. Inspection upwind at 500 feet, then inspection upwind at 200 feet, then climb back to 500 feet and do a short field landing which involves selecting 40 degrees flap for the last stage of the approach.

So she does a beautiful demonstration and does a touch and go. Full power, flaps up and around again for my turn to have a go.

As we accelerated down the runway I was thinking "Gee this gravel really drags us back, we aren't accelerating very fast, I must remember that."

So we get airborne at about 50 knots which is correct for a short takeoff in a C150. I'm watching a big tree in front of me and a set of major power pylons on the hill in front of us getting bigger - only they are not going "down" the windscreen. They are just getting bigger.

After a second or two I realise something is very wrong, and for some reason I turn and check the flaps - and the flaps are still all the way down!!!. I check the switch which is in the "full up" position - flap malfunction.

I tell Beth we are in trouble and a few seconds later we get a call from the CFI who was watching us asking if we meant to take off with full flaps (Beth says No). Then he asks if we are in trouble (Beth says yes). She is in full "Aviate" mode to keep this thing flying because it does not want to.

At full power we can barely hold altitude at about 100 feet. We can't clear ANYTHING in front of us. Beth makes a 180 degree turn which we made with the stall warning horn screaming at about 40 - 45 knots - and this is with full power!! The only way she got us round was by accepting a descent - AROUND the tree. We made it across the threshold at about ten feet and dumped it on the runway. Once we turned, we could have dropped it into a paddock if necessary and accepted damage to the aircraft.

After coffee we borrowed another airplane and finished the sequence, then headed for home in our original ship with the flaps up - the CFI had fiddled with the switch and it decided to work enough to get the flaps up. I would have chicken ringed the flaps circuit breaker if I could have, but you can't do it with the old Cessna type. I did however made a solemn promise that if the flaps started moving I would flip the master switch come what may.

We were lucky in a number of ways:

1) We had a very light fuel load.

2) The airplane has a brand new motor and prop thanks to the old prop hitting a concrete kerb and busting everything. I don't think the other C150's would have had the performance to survive.

3) Neither Beth nor I tried to cycle the flap switch. If we had, and they moved, we would have stalled and would now possibly be dead.

4) We had a pure 90 degree crosswind of ten knots so we could land back onto the strip without any wind problems

We landed back at the main airport in an uneventful flaps up landing. Beth has to write this up for the regulators. She earned her pay today. Enough exitement for one day.

I've since learned that Cessna flap switches are notorious, as are electric flap systems in general. The "problem" isnt a problem in normal operation if you think about it, just in a touch and go or a go around.

If we had been at our main airport with a 3000 foot strip we would have twigged to the lack of acceleration and landed ahead no worries.

The switch entices you to "set and forget" but you need to check that the bloody things are doing what you want them to!

[SkySista]

:mad: Sunfish! Glad you guys are ok..... 10/10 to Beth (and yourself too if you were as calm as you sounded...!)

Geez well I suppose you were lucky it was while you were flying with an instructor for this - sounds like a two-person job!!! On the bright side, boy are you prepared for that one next time. And we can all learn from that. I am sitting here now writing "Check Flaps AGAIN..." in my book.... :D



The only way she got us round was by accepting a descent - AROUND the tree.

:ooh: My goodness, top flying from you two then!!! Glad you're still here.

Have another glass, Sunfish...... ;)

[c-bert]

@Sunfish - Makes you think doesn't it?

I had a slight (very slight in comparison) incident yesterday as well. Practicing forced landings with instructor when I notice there is bugger all fuel pressure :ooh: . We switched on the aux fuel pump and up the pressure came *relief all round*. Just to check the problem we tried turning the aux pump off...fuel pressure drops to nothing again. Decided it would be prudent to go home at that point as we didn't want to be practicing a REAL forced landing...

[FingersR]

My word Sunfish! What a "I learned about flying from that"experience to have! Very glad to hear your are okay though. Certianly one for me to take note of on my checklist as I fly the C152.

[MichaelJP59]

Hi Sunfish, I'm about the same stage as you in my PPL and that sounded extremely dodgy!

One question though, you said that you flew right around the tree at the end, low and slow with full flaps. If you'd managed to get around the obstacle (tree) couldn't you just land ahead there and then?

Cheers,
- Michael

[Hampshire Hog]

Mmmm,

Sunfish, I'm sure your instructor made carefully thought out decisions, but turning back, very low, with the stall warner going sounds really dodgy to me.

I'll stop moaning about the manual flap lever in the Warrior now!

Was there no suitable field ahead?

HH

[Sunfish]

No suitable field ahead, you CAN make a low level turn if you have full power as we had. ONce we had turned 180 we could have dumoed it in the paddock easily, but chose to carry on about 100 yeards and dump it on the airstrip.

FingersR, you will find (I think) that the C152 flaps now only go the 30 degrees and apparently this is the reason!! I've since heard anecdotally that this is an "Old" problem, however its not written down anywhere I have found yet.

One bloke confidently said "Yeah I know about the problem so when doing a short field go around or touch and go, I check flaps are moving before applying full power".

A Boeing driver has said that Boeing go around speeds are calculated assuming flaps are full down and won't come up.

I guess the lesson is that if your aircraft won't fly on full flaps and you use them, then if something breakes or jams, you are committed to land.

[FingersR]

Thanks for the info Sunfish!

[mazzy1026]

Sunfish - very scary indeed, glad to see you and Beth are ok. Thanks for making that post, it is a good reminder to the rest of us and may even save a few of us having the same problem in the future.

Keep it up peeps

Lee :ok:

[Hampshire Hog]

Sunfish,

Thanks for clarifying the circumstances. I guess even if there had been a suitable field ahead, there would have been hard choices to make. Important thing is, as Mazzy says, you're both ok and ready to keep piling on the hours.

Useful learning for all of us though.

HH

[c-bert]

Flew my practice QXC yesterday. Southampton - Bristol - Exeter and back to SOU. A good trip although I thought £42 to land at Bristol was a bit pricey!
Longest I have flown to date and I got back home absolutely knackered :zzz: It's amazing the level of concentration that can be required but I had a good instructor who kept me buzy. Shame I didn't get to see many of the sights though.
Now I have to do it all on my own...:eek:

[mazzy1026]

Whoever said this was easy must have had about 40 hours in training. As you may well be aware from my diary, I am only on 12 hours. I took the all day, one to one RT course, with the well known RT guy :rolleyes: at Liverpool. Let’s just say that the first thing I done when I got home, was go straight out on the ale. What a stressful day.

It started with us going through all the theory, different types of ATSU’s and classifications of airspace etc. This was quite easy as I have studied the reading material a couple of times and was OK with it. This took us right up to about 1400 (we started at 1000). With it being a one-to-one course, I could ask as many questions as I like along the way and this was good because there was never anything that I didn’t understand. So after lunch, we got back and it was decided that we do some practice. I had the northern chart, with a route drawn out on it, which went out of the Liverpool zone and through a MATZ to the south. Seems simple doesn’t it in theory, but when he leaves the room to go next door and you are all on your own, it is only then that all your previous training and knowledge seems to play a vital role. We had a simple two-way intercom device, designed to simulate the real environment, and to be honest, it really does feel real. It is easier however when you have a nice desk in front of you and no aircraft to fly!

Now this is the point where I was struggling. I will detail what I thought was relatively straight forward and what I couldn’t seem to grasp.

Requesting taxi, very straight forward:

1) Who you are talking to
2) Who you are
3) What you want.

No we have established the three ‘W’s. very important indeed. Now at this point it was stressed to ignore the standard phraseology around Liverpool, because usually, when at Kilo requesting taxi, it goes more like this:

Liverpool tower, G-####, is at kilo, with information Charlie (ATIS), QNH1013, ready for departure – or thereabouts with regard to order.

So this meant that requesting taxi was actually less work than I was used to. So after taxi, ready for departure, ATC (I will refer to examiner as ATC from now on) says:

“G-## clearance”

This is my first point of confusion that I seemed to keep screwing up:

“Request clearance G-##”

WRONG! What I was suppose to say is “affirm” or “ready for clearance” or similar, this means that ATC is asking me am I ready to write down all the clearance details. This did slip my mind a few times, but in the end I got it.

Every now and then, ATC would slip in something I wasn’t expecting, like a conditional clearance, which I had done a few of (these are quite regular at Liverpool due to busy traffic). I was ok here, always remember to read back the clearance. This can be an instant fail if you don’t. So now we are airborne, tell ATC you are leaving the zone and request a freq change. Fairly simple, and ATC usually always approve (until the test, the buggar).

Now this is the point that I kept screwing up, and I will tell you why I kept screwing it up later. Ok after a few practice tries, I still didn’t have it in the bag. It was time for the test. Very very nervous indeed, at the thought of failing and having to do it all over again. I think the most important thing for me was the following (which had been established from the start):

Report:

W – who your calling
W – who you are
W – what you want

Another report:

Call sign and type
Departure and destination
Position (overhead ….)
Level
Additional details
Intentions

Another one:

O – overhead
L – level
E – ETA next turning point.

Now with this firmly in mind, back to the test. Left the zone and am approaching a MATZ, so I make the initial call “WWW”. They then ask for my details. This is where it was going wrong. I kept getting confused as to which position report to give? Do I give “OLE”, or the full report? So I kept giving the wrong one and ATC was getting very peeved indeed! I would give the full report twice, maybe not enough and I just couldn’t understand what I was doing.

Let me tell you the very easy method I used to get around this and never make that same mistake again. I simply wrote “1, 2, 3” next to each report. i.e. WWW is one, full report is 2 and OLE is three. THAT’S the order you give to the ATSU/MATZ. When you first make contact, use report number one, when they ask for your details, use report number 2. When they request you to contact them at your next checkpoint, use 3. you only need to give the first and second report ONCE – this establishes that they have your details, so you should now only need to give OLE.

After I realised this, things seemed a lot easier, and I wasn’t making these mistakes any more. The test was a the full works, PAN call, MAYDAY relay, 3 MATZ, 5 turning points, a divert, collect weather from another MATZ, even had to get a True Bearing from another frequency.

To me, this day was a tough one. Lots and lots to take in and mentally tough if you have not had much experience. The thing is, you HAVE to get it right, there is no room for error on the test.

Here’s my two cents worth of advice.

1) When giving a mayday call, or relay, MAKE SURE you give the position, this is the most important part of the call – if you miss that out, you’ve failed. Even if you miss out most of the rest, please remember this.
2) Same for a PAN call.
3) Revise the above, make sure you get the position reports correct and in the right order (like I didn’t at first hehe).
4) Revise what needs reading back and what doest – when confirming landing clearance, don’t read back the weather!
5) Be ready for ATC to throw things in, and listen out. If you don’t understand what is said, request “say again”.
6) Don’t rush to get back to ATC, remember, in reality there could be 20 mins between talking points. Take your time and be clear.
7) Try not to request too many “say again” as I found out. I requested another read back of the landing instructions, and was asked “bloody hell can you read me OK” (or similar words)!
8) Study beforehand, know what you are going to say – in the famous words of Pratt “engage brain before opening mouth”.
9) Don’t forget to change the frequency on the intercom device, ATC will be watching!
10) Have fun.

Having fun is important, although it doesn’t seem like much fun at first, when you get something right, it feels good.

We finished at 1830 – with the words I had wanted to hear “you are successful”. This means that now I can start learning RT – it doesn’t mean I am now a super literate radio operator, it is important to realise this.

Best of luck to anyone who is to take this, and sorry if it seems I am putting you off – just want you to know the necessary points!

Who ever said RT course was easy?

Best regards

Lee



Hour 12

Well, I cant possibly write more here can I – I have already had my share of the pot today, so I will close it with 5 successful circuits with no problems. Got 2 right hand orbits in to give way to Easyjets and made some great approaches.

Safe flying

Lee :ok:

[Hampshire Hog]

Well done Mazzy.

Now I have loads of experience on both airband and other radio networks (I hold my marine radio cert too), but you've scared the Cr*p out of me!!! Some useful tips in there though. I'm leaving my radio exam until I'm further through the ppl (and after I've finished my MBA in October!).

Should have been flying today, instead of writing this, but got weathered off. Tried to book further lessons over the next couple of weeks, but my club has an instructor off and the earliest I could get was 30th Sept - now booked several slots!. Arrrrrh! Back to MS Flight Sim for my fix!

HH

[mazzy1026]

Arrrrrh! Back to MS Flight Sim for my fix!

LOL - before yesterday I was the same, because I hadn't flown for 2 weeks, I actually found myself on MS flight sim too - the thing is though, I used to think it was real (that was before I had started training). I just dont see much similarity at all with the flying characteristics, especially if you download the aircraft you are training in. I remember a while back I read a post about the flight sim, and a lot of people said that it was good for instrument training and the like - I see why now! Still good though for a quick 'flying fix' :D

Sorry if my RT post has scared anyone, that wasn't the intention. Please remember that everyone is different, and what I find difficult, someone else may find easy. A lot of people had actually told me how easy it was prior to me doing it, and that there was nothing to it, so no doubt a lot of people will feel the same!

Cheers,

Lee

[Hampshire Hog]

I actually found myself on MS flight sim too - the thing is though, I used to think it was real (that was before I had started training).

True, the further through flying training I get, the less accurate I think MS Flight Sim is, especially the light aircraft. On the other hand, I have flown a professional 737 simulator and was quite surprised by how similar that handled to the MS version - especially with professional add-ons.

I also have 'FLY ll' on an Apple Mac, which has quite good flight characteristics, but awful scenery.

I wondered whether anyone had tried X-Plane? Views?
(Yes, I know, I'm getting desperate. I'll be shaking next :O )

HH

[Vee One...Rotate]

X-Plane is great. Best flight characteristics in a flight sim. Defnately worth a look.

V1R

[SkySista]

Wow - I miss this thread for a few days and look what happens...!

Thanks for the radio tips, they were interesting reading. It's funny, a lady in my class said the same thing about Flight Sim - the more you fly the less you like it (but is handy for instrument stuff)

For you Aussies here, the latest issue of Aust. Flying mag had an article I was browsing today which was really good - a "What to Do 'bible'" e.g., static blockage, snapped elevator cable, etc etc. (One solution for the blockage was to break the glass in the 'least useful' instrument (VSI in this case) to allow cabin air into the system...hmmm... not sure the owner would be happy....still, better broken glass than broken plane!)

Am very busy this next week but will pop back in here and read all about everyone's adventures.... (watch the gravel, Sunfish ;) )

And lastly, fly safe everyone

Sky

[Hampshire Hog]

Thanks for the tip on X-plane. I'll take a closer look at that.

SkySista, I'd be fascinated to know what the advice was for some of those other problems, especially the elevator cable!

HH

[FingersR]

HH,

BRL has started a new thread on flight sims and i have posted my thoughts on there.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144852

Cheers

Fingers

[Sunfish]

SkySista, read the same article. Today I passed my area solo check, so I get let out of the circuit playpen and into the back garden (training area) on my own.

I still have a lot of work to do to get anywhere near competent in my own opinion, however I seem to have convinced one instructor that I am not a danger to the general population.

[SkySista]

HH,

I'm going by memory here, so may not have this entirely correct (Sunfish, feel free to correct me as I think you have the magazine??? -I just had skimmed at newsagent)

Elevator cable - in the example, it was the 'UP' cable that had gone... the writer says there is still a perfectly servicable 'Down" cable.... so all you need to do is trim the nose well up and fly it in from there - apparently not too difficult if you are careful and watch what you are doing.... (hmmm...wonder if it is worth asking to have a go at that during a lesson? ;) )

As for the rudder one (or was it ailerons - now Im just messing it all up.... ) I think it was ailerons...... if you have a problem with those, take hold of the inner 'horns' of each yoke (e.g. left hand on right side of left yoke, and vice versa..) and fly from there (could have some difficulty if also managing radios etc but better than flying it into the ground....

Errmmm... blocked intake, think was apply carby heat as it will be taking air from around the engine instead of outside.....

throttle stuck open, use the mixture like a throttle....if you lean off too much and it dies, usually enriching will bring it back again if you have the prop windmilling...... or something like that....

Anyway, there are a few other things they go into, such as gyros, fuel props etc.... anyone in Oz it'd be worth getting for your own reference.... (dont want to get busted for copyright here....! ;) )

They also said the golden rule is if you try something, and it goes wrong, undo the last thing you did.....

Sunfish, oooh a nice backyard to play in.... it's good when all the kids get let out to play...so long as everyone plays nice! :D Enjoy...! (as for competence, in my opinion it is better to think you need to be better and are in reality probably very good (because you will always be looking to improve your skills and safety) , than to think you're 'it' and be actually crap..... ) Just out of curiosity, (quite a stupid question really) do you get the CASA Flight Safety mailout? I got my latest yesterday and it's actually very good.... you could send in that flap malfunction story and maybe win a grand!!! :ok:

Sky

[Sunfish]

Sky, yes I got the mailout and when you read it you will find that deja vu has been at work. There isa long article on flaps in there already.

I guess the issue is not to put them into a position where you are in trouble if you cannot get them up. This is only about two places - the touch and go and the go around.

As touch and go is a training manoeuvre, maybe the trick should be to check the flaps are moving in the right direction before you apply full power.

On a go around, I guess in the worst case you have to fly a circuit with full flaps.

Just as an experiment yesterday after stalling practice at 3500 ft, we tried flying the "best" of the C150's with forty degrees of flap. You can just get it to climb at about 100 fpm. at full power.

Went Solo to the training area today. Returned with tension headache and stiff neck an hour later from having to think where I was going and look around all the time instead of having an instructor tell me what to do, or following the well worn groove of the circuit.

Anyway, at least I exorcised a few demons by doing stalls on my own and a few practice forced landings and suchlike.

Tomorrow its at YMMB at 5.00am for this Dawn Patrol event.

CHeers, hope all goes well with your flying

[Hampshire Hog]

SkySista,

Thanks for that. Sounds like an interesting article - hope some of it sticks for that fateful day!

Sunfish, well done on being let out of the circuit. I'm so bored with mine I can't wait to actually see some different scenery:D

I can't fly again until 30th now:{ But going on a work trip as PAX (LHR - MAN) next week, so at least I'll get up in the air. Don't think they'll let me have the controls though;)

HH

[Milt]

mazzy 1026

This is the way they went solo in 1913 at the Hendon Flying School.

No dual!!!

Saturday the 18th 1913, was the day Del would never forget. True to Frank's prediction it was a brilliant, almost calm morning, even the grass looked greener in the early sunlight, with just an occasional puff of wind stirring the flags. As Del rounded the hangar corner he saw to his astonishment that not only was Frank waiting, but the hangar was open and the Caudron out and ready.

"Morning Del. Lets go into my office for a while and talk things over again".

"Cripes, I've flown it a dozen times all night, and once more at breakfast' thought Del as they walked into the hangar.

But revision of yesterday's briefing were not all of Frank's aims. Although a last minute run through would ensure Del had it as much at his finger tips as possible, he also felt that Del was all keyed up, perhaps a little too much so. A quiet time to talk it through again would help steady him down, give him every assurance, and put him in the right frame of mind for his approaching ordeal.

The talk over Frank moved towards the hangar door.

"Best have a leak Del, you don't want any excess weight on board".

'No' thought Del, for a puddle to sit in either, as he made his way past the work benches to the toilet.

As they approached the aircraft Frank said "You'll be taking off to the west and over the railway line in this slight breeze, so you are familiar with the look of those hills over there to keep your heading on, as you climb out. See that gasometer over there, "he said pointing away to the east, "you'll see that sticking up like a sailor's prick on an overnight pass, when you're down wind, so look for it and steer straight for it. When you pass over the big new highway you should be ready to turn for your descent, so don't go too far past it or you'll be too far away for a nice approach. All right Del; Off you go; Good luck".

Del strapped in, Sam swung the propeller to start the engine, then gave him a big grin and thumbs up sign as he commenced to taxi out.

As Del swung the Caudron into wind, he got a cheery wave from Frank, who by now had walked out and was standing near the fence. 'Guess I'd better not bend this kite', thought Del 'I've got all the audience I need'.

With a last check of the joy_stick for freedom of movement he pushed the throttle slowly forward for his first real take_off. 60 yards and the Caudron lifted off and at thirty minutes past eight Del was away on his first real flight.

This time that implacable, unyielding fence held no fears or constrains as Del cleared it by a good hundred feet. He felt the slipstream beating against his face harder than he had ever sensed it before. He was aware that now the Caudron seemed to be a living, trembling thing of life. The rigging wires hummed and vibrated in sympathy with the big propeller whirling around and the staccato bark of the three exhaust stubs. The tightly stretched fabric sides to his small cockpit pulsated with the beat of each propeller blade and added to the noise and tumult. As he concentrated on keeping the nose up in the climb and the wings level, he now felt for the first time the effects of the slight air turbulence as the wings rocked with each disturbance. There were no trimming tabs or trim controls in those early aircraft so the pilot had to hold the stick with a steady force to maintain the desired attitude of the aeroplane in the air to each change of engine power or speed through the air. He had to concentrate hard to move the joy_stick left and right with each gust to keep his wings level. The Caudron was particularly prone to this effect as, with a solid wing spar running across both upper and lower wings it lacked the intrinsic stability of later designs that used inclined wings giving them both dihedral and sweep_back. He, of course, had yet to condition his reflexes to counter each gust with an automatic, unthinking movement of the stick. He would not develop that reflex response until he had logged four or five hours of flight time.

Suddenly, Del realised he was higher than he should be at 400 feet and it was time to turn. With the wings banked over, and Sam's wire lying along the horizon, he noted with some satisfaction that the nose of the Caudron moved slowly around the horizon as she turned. Again he had the turbulence problem as the wings tried to steepen the angle of bank with each gust. Out of the corner of his eye he saw the familiar shapes of the airfield hangar. Almost straight ahead he now saw Frank's gasometer, a little hazily in the mist. Levelling the wings he had time to look briefly at the ground all around him _ how small everything appeared from up here, the houses looked like tiny doll's houses, thousands of them, lining the sides of the roads, all crisscrossing the country side, and disappearing into the haze of the morning. He became aware of the slipstream _ it was quite violent now, tearing at his goggles and beating hard on his face.

'You stupid ass' he remonstrated with himself as he realised he still had the throttle pushed hard forward against the stop and the engine was clamouring a full throttle roar of annoyance. 'Ease it back' he told himself _ 'Where's that bloody gasometer gone' as he glared at the horizon through goggles which were now beginning to be spattered with oil droplets.

Then he experienced the most lasting impression of that first flight, for as he frantically looked for it, the gasometer emerged back into view from behind that single large engine cylinder up front, the top hat, as the Caudron weaved its nose around in the air currents.

'Christ I am still too high' thought Del and he pushed the nose down with a forward movement of the joy_stick. The slipstream started to pummel his face again as his speed increased. Del glanced at the aerodrome, _ he was past the eastern edge and suddenly he saw almost beneath him the highway. Vaguely, almost in a dream, Del recalled Frank's instructions _ 'turn left until you are lined up with the centre of the drome! As he gently rolled out of the turn he knew that he was higher than he aught to be, the fence had disappeared under the leading edge of the lower wing already. 'Damn fool, close the throttle and volplane'. Once again he chastised himself. With that the noise and beating of the slipstream died away. In fact in a few seconds everything became almost deathly quiet. He shoved the stick forward, the nose dropped down to the position Frank had sketched and once more the rigging wires took up their song of vibrant life.

'Phew' thought Del _ he recalled Frank's words when they had discussed volplaning. When the wires stop singing the angels start' was his dire warning of slow airspeed leading to a stall, and maybe a spin. Del knew now precisely what Frank had meant. Down the Caudron glided towards the field _ 'a bit too high' thought Del and he held the stick a little further forward. The speed built up and with it the slipstream on his face and as he flashed over the boundary fence he had a quick vision of Frank and Sam's upturned faces. Nearing the ground he eased the stick back, trying to keep the wings level as he waited for his speed to decrease. Suddenly the slipstream subsided as the great drag of a myriad rigging wires and struts took effect. Del snatched the stick back as the Caudron started to drop to the ground, then with a small lift of 3 or 4 feet she settled back down again with a very firm bump on mother earth. 'Keep her straight and don't relax' Frank's words now rang in his ears and as the Caudron slowed to a walking pace Del saw with some relief that his old adversary was still two hundred yards away.

He swung the aeroplane around and headed back to the two distant figures _

'I've done It!__ I've done It! __ you bloody beaut __ I've DONE It!' that's all Del could tell himself as the full realisation came that now he was certain he would soon get his brevet.

His flight had taken about ten minutes, but to Del it seemed like hours since he had rolled away from Frank to start his take_off run.

Del pulled up by Frank and Sam with the engine ticking over at idle. Each in turn ducked under the longeron and rigging wires, clapped him on the shoulder and firmly shook his hand.

"Well done Del, you've joined the elite club of men of the skies". Frank's words were never forgotten although later on with quiet reflection Del knew he still had a long way to go before he could say he had truly earned that accolade.

"Can I do another circuit, now" queried Del anxiously, already wanting to prove he could better his first performance.

"Best roll her back to the hangar and let's talk it over for a while" came the saged reply of an old head on young shoulders as Frank waved towards the hangar.

So Del's first flight came to its end. No flight would ever be quite the same _ he would always remember those moments vividly _ the quivering vibrations _ the beat of the slipstream on his face _ the rocking of the wings in the turbulence _ the gasometer _ and the awful quiet when he almost stalled _ the two faces as he crossed the fence _ and that slight pause just before the wheels found the ground again.

Back in Frank's office they talked, Del with elated enthusiasm, Frank with critical approval. Del didn't have to recount his leaving the throttle hard on, his gaining height all the way down wind, his forgetting to lower the nose to volplane, his too rapid arrival over the boundary fence and his rather heavier than hoped for landing. Frank had seen it all and quietly led Del through his mistakes making sure he knew just what he had done wrong, and why. Already Del was self analysing his errors as they went along, Frank was glad to see that; the aviator who could not do so was usually a dead duck from overconfidence sooner or later, generally sooner.

They had a cup of tea, brought in by Sam, and as they chatted Frank watched Del closely. His initial jubilant elation had abated, the colour of his face, flushed with mental exertion _ and then ecstasy had returned to normal and Del gave every appearance of having now mentally 'returned to earth'.

Best wishes for your first solo.

[Vee One...Rotate]

Excellent post Milt.

V1R :ok:

[c-bert]

Sad to think they would probably have both been in Flanders a year or two later.

[mazzy1026]

Milt that was a superb post - many thanks for that! I was quivering just reading it and the thought of my first solo sends shivers down ones spine!

Best wishes

Lee

[Thief13x]

thats normal. My first solo was a week before i got my drivers license:\ so i had never even driven a car by myself!:uhoh: . Ah the first solo! so memorable:ok: . You'll have fun trust me, with the empty right seat it'll probably be weird tho

[mazzy1026]

It was one of those days that just went extremely slow and seemed like it would never end. That’s the feeling I get when the weather is pretty poor all day and the flight is booked for 1630. Rang up at half 3 and it was on – wuhoo!

Sorry, bit carried away there. We had a strong headwind, coming slightly from the left, which meant a strong crab and a crosswind landing technique. My PTT button started playing up in the circuit, kept making a crackling noise when I pressed it, so unfortunately, my instructor had to look after the radios, which was a bit gutting as my confidence is building and I like talking to ATC, especially in the circuit. But not to worry, on with the flying. There was another Tommy in the circuit, which was behind us (or in front, whichever you prefer) and there was also a fair share of Easyjets out and about. That’s what I love about Liverpool, seeing the big guys so close to you and having to work around them and give enough spacing for vortex etc – its fantastic. Upon reporting downwind, ATC always give their recommendation for spacing, they cant tell you to give a 6 mile gap after a 737 – so it is like a bloody good hint to orbit, or extend downwind etc, whichever is more appropriate.

On one of the circuits, we were orbiting for about 5 mins, number 4 to 3 other jets plus we had the other Tommy behind us, also orbiting. It was very busy but I felt confident and was loving every minute of it. Each landing was with the use of 1 stage of flap, due to the strong headwind. We were trying to (well we did) perform the wing down landing technique, and it is amazing as to how much aileron needed (probably maximum) to keep the drift correct, and the amount of rudder used to keep the nose down the runway. We were landing on the port undercarriage firs, followed by the rest. Fantastic, and one of those original fears which is no longer fear (thanks to the guys who helped me out in another thread a few months back about xwind landings).

So the call comes in:

“downwind to land”

It was then decided upon (not by me of course, or due to any technical failure) to do an emergency landing, following engine failure, so off goes the ignition, keys out and master off……………………..(sorry, that was a joke, just couldn’t resist). OK power to idle and controls over to me following the words “engine failure”. This is mistake number one, I went straight for one stage of flap, probably for 2 reasons. 1 – we had been using them whilst landing in the circuit and 2 – they provide more lift at slower speeds, and due to a natural reaction, I stuck one stage in! So instructor kindly stated we don’t use them yet – you must let the aircraft settle and figure out what it is doing, decide upon the correct attitude and make decisions, then, use flap. After all, you may not even need them, depending on your height and distance from airfield – plus, you don’t want to exceed VFE (maximum flap operating speed).

So another successful circuit session. We have been joking about my circuit training so far, mainly because each time I do circuits, the wind has been close to maximum and conditions have been bumpy, (I have done 3 sessions now) so when it comes to doing them on a calm day, I should find them easier, and hopefully, get one step closer to solo! Cant bloody wait!

Safe flying all,

Lee

P.s. There was a girl also doing training that day – not seen her before. I handed over a fuel drainer to you – are you on here by any remote chance?

[VisualFlightRules]

Hi Lee and all,

just jumped into this excellent thread and although I haven't read all postings find it really interesting :ok:

It's not long ago that I've all also been through all these feelings and moments that you are now experiencing. It's about two weeks since I passed my (german) PPL(A) checkride and I have to admit that the one and only thing I was really worried about on that day was the "emergency landing". From my minimal experience, the only thing I can say is: "take your time with the flaps extension".

No complicated aerodynamics theory here, just what I have learned from the theory lessons and experienced myself. Stay on clean configuration as long as you are not 100% sure that you make it to the runway (I take it for granted that you constantly monitor your speed for best glide ;) ). Talking now of myself, I set the flaps only when I'm sure that I will hit the "numbers" :p ... whereas my estimations have not always been right at the beginning :ouch:

In any case, I wish you lots of fun and I'll definitely follow the thread to wish you best luck on your upcoming solo and all exciting moments you are about to experience. :ok:

Best regards,
Nikos

[mazzy1026]

Thanks for you post - (of course I was monitoring airspeed (ahem))!!

I will definately remember to leave the flap alone until I (the aircraft) is settled and I am sure I need them - dont wanna go failing any checkride!

Cheers

Lee :ok:

[Sunfish]

Went out for a checkride yesterday before another training area solo. The wind was way to strong (gusting 40 on the ground) and there was some pretty interesting turbulence. We settled for doing the party trick instead.

Pointed into the wind at 2000 feet and pulled 10 degrees of flap and slowed to 60 kts. Wierd feeling ! We were stationary! We slowed a little more and commenced flying backwards!

After half an hour we came home and forgot about flying since it was just to rough up there. Used the time to pass my radio exam and Basic Aeronautical Knowledge Exam.

Now a few more hours solo and then the GFPT (General Flight Proficinecy test). After that I move to a Warrior and start the Nav training for the second half of the PPL.

[mazzy1026]

I was lucky to have booked my flight for 1630 today because when I woke up in the morning, there was nothing but a blanket of cloud at about 700ft with constant drizzle. I was preparing for the worst, but when 1530 came it had eventually cleared and there was only the occasional cirrus cloud around, plus the wind had dies to around 4-6 knots.

So off to the airfield, a very happy chappy indeed. There was a lady before me who had just done her first solo, and it all went very well, so congrats to you if you are reading! It just made me look forward to mine even more! I had the last flight of the day and it was quite calm (which would change during the course of the session). The runway lights had been turned on just as I was doing my checks; I had not flown before and seen such an amazing view of the glowing runway, quite spectacular. So off onto the first circuit. There wasn’t that much wind at this point, so not a lot of crabbing needed. The tower had asked us to perform an immediate left turn after takeoff, so once we passed the tower, that’s exactly what we did – kind of like a diagonal line from takeoff to crosswind. This one went quite well, good landing without any problems. One thing I need to start doing is putting my checks into action – what I mean is, rather than just pointing to the fuel gauge to see its ok, actually change to the fullest tank and make use of the check.

On one of the landings I flared a little too high, so it took a little longer to float down and we had to make corrections as necessary. I done this a couple of times, so on the next one, I was determined to get it right – well, what can I say, I now left it a little to late, which meant we were a little too fast, and lets just say, so far, it was the roughest landing I have done – nothing to get worried about, it just made me a little frustrated that I was getting it wrong. What helped me get around this was what my instructor said to me. He pointed out that we are not trying to PUT the aircraft down by any means of force, we don’t need to force it down, just get a good speed, nice easy flare, hold it, hold it, hold it and let it smoothly touch down, let it land itself………basically, I was putting too much effort in getting the thing down, rather than let physics do it for me. This time, I was definitely going to get it right, I was determined!

Getting the right approach and descent is crucial, it sets you up for a beautiful landing if you get it right. I have a tendency to be too high, and keep the nose in a high attitude because the runway looks closer than it actually is, therefore sometimes I am too slow and require more power, which means the flare can cock up. It’s like a chain of events unfolding. Anyhow, my last landing was one of the smoothest yet – I remembered what I was told and just let it float down and it gently touched the runway, lots of right rudder and left aileron – such a big buzz getting it right, it truly is. I only hope that with practice I can get used to the right attitude and make safe, smooth landings. Instructor did say that after a while I will be able to judge it better myself.

Safe flying,

Lee.

[Penguina]

Ah, you bring it all back, Mazzy! I remember that all so well. First flaring too high, then too low, then flaring just right but moving off the centreline, then doing everything right but just not seeing it through and letting it 'plonk', then landing fine but forgetting to concentrate after you've touched down you're so relieved...

It all seems to go a lot slower now than it did in those days. Mind you, it still helps to take a deep breath and check that I'm relaxed on the way down from time to time, especially in crosswinds. :D

Perhaps they should change the verb 'to land' a plane to something that sounds a bit less - how shall I put it - deliberate?? It's something that misled me too, that idea that you make it touch down.

[mazzy1026]

landing fine but forgetting to concentrate after you've touched down you're so relieved...

I know exactly what you mean - sometimes I get distracted or focus too much on one thing, then I forget something like saying 'downwind' or 'final'. It's so easy for me to do at this stage, I must learn to 'not forget' any of these stages!

Cheers

Lee

[Sunfish]

I know exactly what you mean Mazzy - concentrating on one thing and forgetting another. I do that almost all the time, must focus more on engine management and altitude control.

I went out yesterday and did a "Pre GFPT" test for one and a half hours. For the record it goes something like this:

Your examiner askes you to do a weight and balance calculation, checks your knowledge of licence conditions, what constitutes VMC, VFR rules and so on, plus air law, etc.

From then on you treat him exactly as you would a passenger although he flips from "passenger mode" to "examiner mode" at will.

You take off and are asked to climb to 3,500 feet and demonstrate stalls in clean and landing configuration, then a forced landing, then a precautionary search and landing, steep turns and so on. There are competency standards like +- 10 degrees on headings, +- 100-150 feet on altitude, +5, - 0 on approach and climb speeds and so on.

Then its back to the circuit to demonstrate STOL stuff, gliding approaches, flapless approaches, crosswind takeoff and landings and so on.

At some point he will throw in one or two emergency procedures and all the time he is listening to your radio calls and watching everything else.

I was absolutely stuffed by the time I was finished. Practice by myself tomorrow and the test on Friday I hope.

[mazzy1026]

Its seems like a hell of a lot of work, something which I know will get the old nerves twitching quite a bit. What were the pre flight questions? I have passed air law but it looks like a revision will be necessary for the flight test! :confused:

[VisualFlightRules]

I only hope that with practice I can get used to the right attitude and make safe, smooth landings. Instructor did say that after a while I will be able to judge it better myself.

That is exactly what is going to happen :) ... and I can probably tell you when your first "best-ever" landing will take place. It will be the day when you will be fully concentrated... because noone will be sitting next to you ;) I have the feeling that this day lies really close in the future :ok:

Take care and greetings from EDGS 290650Z 26015KT 230V290 1900 -RA BR SCT002 BKN003 10/10 Q1014 :{

Cheers,
Nikos

[MichaelJP59]

Good point about landings, it's almost like instead of deliberately landing it, you merely set the conditions in which the plane will land i.e. throttled back, flared, gently settling on the runway.

My frequent mistake in the early hours was to make a nice smooth touchdown on the main wheels but be so pleased that I would then forget to continue with back control pressure and the nosewheel would plonk down ungracefully!

- Michael

[SkySista]

I was once told that a Cessna 172 is an aircraft that lands best when you try not to land it....!! (Wouldn't know myself as have only done four of five in it...!) ;)

Sky
(itching to be back in the air...! )

[Sunfish]

Michael and Skysista, you are both right. I keep forgetting that we are not landed till the nosewheel has been gracefully placed on the runway. I landed so hard this afternoon that i checked to make sure nothing was bent.

[Hampshire Hog]

Hi everyone,

Well, Mazzy, it sounds like you've reached the mind numbing stage that I was at a few weeks ago, trying to remember everything in the circuit and becoming increasingly frustrated at every bad landing. I flew with a different instructor for one lesson and he told me to stop beating myself up about forgetting things or messing something up. He made it clear that even the most experienced pilots mess-up sometimes (sit and watch those airliners coming in for a few hours and see how many bounce!)and it is better to relax than to worry about the last mistake.

Sunfish, sounds like you're doing well - good luck!

Having had to wait several weeks to get back to flying, I got weathered off yesterday. Fortunately, I had a second lesson booked for Monday - so ... if anyone can blow some good weather in my direction!

HH

[Sunfish]

I convinced the examiner that I am not a danger to the general public yesterday and passed the GFPT! God knows how because my flying is very rough.

Got to work on lowering the nosewheel instead of letting it drop on landing, more work on crosswind landings and try and do everything about ten knots slower.

Looks like next week I will work on a warrior endorsement, then start Nav training.

Cheers

[Hampshire Hog]

Sunfish,

You'll enjoy flying the Warrior - it's an easy and pleasant thing to fly after Cessnas, but keep that backpressure on after landing! Also, it has to be flown in trim - it's too heavy to just use pressure on the Yoke.

And good luck with the nav. Can't wait to start that myself - if the weather ever clears up enough for me to do any more lessons:D

HH

[c-bert]

I'm sure the weather will clear up by April or so...

Had my R/T practical on Sunday. Passed with flying colours (excuse the rather poor pun). If anyone is having theirs soon I recommend doing a search on this forum. The CAA have released a safety sense leaflet on it and there is a link here somewhere. Most useful.
Just flight planning to go....oh and the cross country, a few hours solo and the skills test. Should be done by next summer :{

[mazzy1026]

Now today was an interesting day if I have ever seen one! Before I start, just to let you know I left the airfield with a massive grin that would not come off my face for a while (no I haven’t gone solo yet!) I was in for a very interesting circuit session. As you may know the weather on Sunday was dire – gale force winds, horrible rain and low cloud – I was so sure that the 1330 flight would be cancelled, but as it turned out, the weather perked up a bit and we were off. Took off on rw 27 and started the left hand circuit, with a tail wind. I was absolutely shocked as to how much runway we used to get airborne, the thing just wouldn’t get off the ground, and when it did, it just wouldn’t climb like normal, quite a bizarre feeling. So when we got round from base, onto 1 mile final, in full landing configuration, we hear this from Tower:

“G-## Immediate turn right, orbit Jaguar, incoming fast jet”

Bo**ocks! Full power, raise nose, reduce to one stage of flap, right turn straight over to the Jaguar mushroom (you’ll know what I mean if you have flown there) to start orbiting. Bearing in mind we were in a left hand circuit, and the jaguar mushroom is on the right, so we have now transited to a right hand circuit, downwind for base on rw 09. Ok so this is all new to me, but no rocket science here, I understood what was going on. So now at least we were going to land with a bit of headwind. By now the wind was up to about 11 kts from the right.

The first approach was going sweet all the way until touchdown – because I had not trim the aircraft properly and kept the back pressure on, when I released a bit of back pressure to let her touch down, the yoke shot forward and we were gonna eat tarmac, hadn’t it been for some lightning speed reactions! I don’t know about you people, but when I don’t get something right it makes me so determined to do it right the next time round, frustration isn’t the right word, just a sheer need to succeed. So on the next take-off no in a right hand circuit. The first difficulty I was coming across is that I could hardly see the runway because of my instructor who is on the right and in the turn, you cant see it at all, you have to remember points on the horizon, roll level then check and make corrections as necessary. This time the wind was up to 15-16kts which is the Tommy’s limit, I’m not sure on the crosswind component as I haven’t worked on that yet but it was bloody strong – certainly the most effective crosswind I have experienced so far, and there was some serious crabbing going on to keep center line with an early turn onto final as the wind was behind us. My approaches were going so nicely and I was so pleased at getting them right – even the crosswind landings were better than what I thought I was capable of doing – plenty of crab, use the rudder to keep the nose straight and the ailerons to keep center line. After 5 more of these getting it right I was on top of the world – but I had learned another valuable lesson today, GET IN TRIM!

As I have said a few times, crosswind landings were my original big fear. Don’t get me wrong, I find them tough and they need a lot of attention and it will take me millions of years (if you know what I mean) to ever get comfortable with them, but now they are not a FEAR, just a bigger challenge!

Happy (xwind) landings and keep up the fine posting!

Lee
:ok:

[Sunfish]

Congrats on getting the hang of crosswind landings! Its a great feeling!

[kookabat]

I'm sure the weather will clear up by April or so...

No hope!!! Being about half way through my navs I can tell you that the weather just does not cooperate. One recent flight in particular I attempted five times, actually getting in the air and diverting twice, due weather - seems I have a little personal raincloud that follows me around Addams Family-style... hehe. I'm beginning to doubt that Bathurst actually exists!! We ended up giving up on that particular route...
Then again, once in a while you get very nice conditions - and then you REALLY enjoy the flying!!

And Sunfish - after 45-odd hours on the 152 (up to GFPT) I also upgraded to a Warrior for my navs - tell ya what, took me a little while to get used to it but I'm loving it now. Actually took it solo (just in the circuit) for the first time this morning - apart from one dodgy, bouncy land-bounce-goaround thing it was pretty sweet...

Adam

[Hampshire Hog]

Pleased to see I'm not the only PPL student who believes he has a 'personal raincloud':D

HH

[mazzy1026]

Just bought myself the Maycom AR-108 airband scanner - it's awesome. Thing is though, what can I listen to on the UHF frequency range? It says you can listen in to weather channels, this is something I aint a clue about as this is my first scanner - can anyone help me out?

Cheers

Lee (also with my own CB cloud over me all the time) :sad:

[c-bert]

Lee,

I think the RAF use UHF. Um, that's about all I know. Sorry! :rolleyes:

[SQUAWKIDENT]

Lee

I have the same receiver - great coverage but rather poor audio quality I thought. Great for for listening to all the go-arounds at EGLL ;) whilst not aviating myself.

I did a search for UHF airband frequencies on Google and found a few sites with lists of (exclusively military) frequencies.

As to the legality of tuning in to these broadcasts...:uhoh:

EDIT: I found the built-in antenna pretty rubbish for reception (too short!) so purchased a replacement telescopic antenna online. Much better reception now!

Regards

Adam

[Sunfish]

Kookabat, I did the Warrior thing myself on Tuesday and wednesday (wednesday was a beautiful day). I need to do the engineering paper today.

[c-bert]

Something I've been wondering for a while, why is it that motivates us all to go for our PPLs?

Personally I was thinking of doing the whole CPL, ATPL route although I have since changed my mind. I'm still looking forward to pottering around the UK though. :cool:

[MichaelJP59]

Personally I was thinking of doing the whole CPL, ATPL route...

I was once thinking about that until I did some research and found out to my amazement that it would cost me about £50-60K to get qualified for a job that is relatively low-paid!

That wouldn't be so bad, but to really put the tin hat on it it turns out that there are thousands who have actually done this and can't even get even the low-paid flying jobs!

So I'm just doing it for fun. I hope at some point to be able to fly to some business meetings but I'm not kidding myself it will be any faster and certainly not any cheaper than using the car:)

- Michael

[c-bert]

My feelings exactly!

[ThePirateKing]

Mazzy,

SquawkIdent makes a good point. Unless you already hold a valid Flight Radio Telephony Operator's Licence, using your scanner is illegal. See the Ofcom website for more details:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/codes_guidelines/radio_comms/enforcement/ofw156?a=87101

My interpretation of this is that ATC transmissions are not "general reception transmissions" (that is, they are not meant for the general public, but for specific parties), and therefore under section 5(1)(b) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949, only licenced operators are entitled to listen to the transmissions.

Under the "general reception" section, there is talk of "navigation transmissions". I believe this refers to GPS, TrafficMaster, etc. rather than ATC.

Of course, there is a big question over the likelihood of getting caught... :rolleyes:

TPK:ok:

[mazzy1026]

SQUAWKIDENT

Thanks mate - where can I get one of these telescopic antenna's and how will I know it will fit?

PirateKing

Thanks for that info - I really wasnt aware of that! My question is, can I use the scanner (legally) once I have my PPL and the radio license that goes with it? I know you can get your radio license way ahead of passing your actual PPL so is this sufficient/correct license? Because when you are flying your not only listening in but also broadcasting?

With regards to the CPL/ATPL business - I know exactly what you mean. Before I started training I was so full of "Yeah I want ATPL and wanna fly for British Airways" in other words, I was a naieve wreck! Now I am totally happy whilst in training and totally enjoy flying every Sunday even though I am still learning. I can only imagine that once I get my license that it will become even better. I would settle for a nice aircraft share and regular fun flying :)

Thanks

Lee

[ThePirateKing]

Mazzy,

The FRTOL and the PPL are separate things, both issued by the CAA. You can get a PPL without getting an FRTOL - I know at least one person who is in the situation. This allows you to fly non-radio. (Legally, without even listening in... but hey!)

I am not aware of anybody having obtained an FRTOL without getting a PPL too, and I'm not even sure you can do so. The CAA may well only allow you to apply for an FRTOL if you have, or are simultaneously applying for, a PPL. Like I said - I don't really know.

As I said before, the chances of anyone catching you are pretty small. If you have a transceiver (i.e. the ability to transmit) be careful not to accidentally do so, because they WILL track you down, and you WILL be in trouble! ;)

And if they do catch you listening in, and you point to your on-going PPL training, I would expect the worst outcome would be a slap on the wrist. But, then again, I'm not the CAA! :\

TPK:ok:

[c-bert]

Pirateking - Just had a look at LASORs and it says you only need a FRTOL to transmit - with the exception of pilots under training. I think anyone can listen in otherwise you would have hundreds of spotters being arrested all the time.

Equally you can listen in to police radio quite legally, it is acting on information recived that way that is illegal (as told to me by a policeman).

[SQUAWKIDENT]

Lee

Link here for telescopic replacement antenna for Maycom AR-108
(scroll down to the Maycom and select accessories)

http://www.airsupply.co.uk/acatalog/Air_Supply_Aviation_ENTHUSIASTS_PRODUCTS_1.html

Bit pricey IMO but definitely improves reception for me here in London. Can now hear Heathrow ATC and most of the Swanwick ground controllers (and Volmet comes in nice and clear which is very useful before I set out to go flying..)

Cheers

Adam

[ThePirateKing]

c-bert,

I don't wish to start an argument, and maybe your information is better than mine, but if you check the link I gave earlier, you will find the legal situation as laid out by the actual regulator of all things (radio-)telegraphic and (radio-)telephonic.

It is quite clear that receiving, for example, police transmissions is illegal. The specific question regarding listening to police transmissions and not acting on them is covered in the FAQ at the bottom.

Of course, how an individual policeman acts in relation to the law is another question. One in London the other day told me outright that he had no idea how to enforce the new zebra crossings they have which don't have zig-zag lines approaching them. Police officers make mistakes. (Just ask the magistrate who threw out my speeding case! :D)

WRT an FRTOL, I think you'll find you are only allowed to exercise the priviledges of the licence is relation to the safe conduct of a flight. Ergo, using one to have a chin-wag with your mate in the air, for example, is not allowed.

Editted to add that LASORS, section B1.1 states "the FRTOL does not entitle the holder to operate a radio station which is installed anywhere other than in an aircraft". Therefore, it specifically does not entitle the holder to use a handheld radio (except, perhaps, inside an airplane in event of a failure of a fixed radio installation).

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[c-bert]

PirateKing - no arguement (hopefully). I stand corrected on the police thing. As I said it was word of mouth only.

Have just read the link you provided. Seems I am completely in the wrong! :* :ok: . My unreserved appologies.

Having said that, I wonder how many people who own a scanner have a licence to operate one....?

[mazzy1026]

So why is it that all the spotters who stand at Manchester viewing point (or any airfield for that matter) aren't arrested? Even when I go flying I see loads of them at Liverpool - is it one of them laws that only exist as an item on paper and that nobody really is out to catch? I can understand if you are transmitting - which would be stupid and perhaps dangerous, wouldnt even go there!!

Cheers

Lee