From Zero to Forty Five - my PPL Diary [Archive] - Page 2

mazzy1026

11th Oct 2004, 12:07

I have bee really unlucky with the weather ever since starting my circuit training. Every single session that I have done, it has been bloody windy, close or past aircraft limits. My instructor told me I would have already gone solo had it not been for this fact, so I get a little cheesed off when I wake up for the lesson and its howling outside. Anyway, that’s UK aviation for you so I either get used to it or stress myself out!

On rw 09 today we had a 20kt headwind throughout most of the session. Takeoff was interesting as we got airspeed for free and we climbed higher, quicker so we had to crab quite a bit to get a decent crosswind distance, so that we were not too close to the runway on downwind. The flying was going well, and on the second circuit we performed 2 orbits to give spacing to one of the easyjets (the sky in Liverpool especially on a weekend is dotted with orange!) So there we are jollying away, knowing that if the weather was good I may have had the opportunity to go solo, but still, was loving every minute.

Then, we thought we could do a couple of gliding descents to land. As we turned to final, instructor said to me:

“Tell me when you think we could cut the engine and successfully make the runway”.

Bearing in mind the wind was bloody strong, I was guessing at pretty much over the extended threshold – the metal structures that hold the approach lights (anyone know the technical word I am looking for?). So at 1000 feet, we cut the engine, carb heat on and kept the nose up for 70kt. Then commenced the glide. As we got further along, I was thinking, “We aint gonna make this”. All of a sudden…..WALLOP! We were dropping like a whore’s knickers (sorry) – loads of power back on to keep us from dying and ensure that we make the runway – very very interesting indeed.

On the next base:

Instructor: “Wanna do another one?”
Me: “Too right”.

This time, it was quite scary. We were practically over the numbers when we cut the engine at 1000ft. the runway looked TINY! Miles away! I was expecting a very exciting landing as we were SO high, never seen the runway from this perspective before (listen to me like a kid with a new toy). So again, trim for 70kts and set the glide up. This time, we were making it no problem and had plenty of runway to play with – landed fine. I had concerns with what I had learned: What would it be like if you REALLY had lost your engine and you had no runway to play with, or for that matter, no runway at all! Getting the glide angle spot on and picking the best landing point (a nice field) would be essential, and I can imagine pretty scary.

Lots learned today, and still awaiting my solo which I am really looking forward to. I gave my airband scanner to my dad who was back at the house, more than 15 miles away, he could hear me clearly in the circuit which was great.

Safe flying,

Lee :ok:

c-bert

11th Oct 2004, 12:59

Hi Lee. Glad someone is getting some flying in! Just to validate you point about judging the glide - that was the thing I really struggle(d) with during PFLs. Once you've learnt what the picture should look like it's not so bad but it takes a lot of experience. Then again, doesn't everything! ;)

magpienja

11th Oct 2004, 21:20

Lighting gantry is the word you are looking for.

Nick.

Gertrude the Wombat

11th Oct 2004, 21:51

... it has been bloody windy, close or past aircraft limits. My instructor told me I would have already gone solo had it not been for this fact ... Yeah, yeah, they all say that!

(It's usually true of course.)

Sunfish

12th Oct 2004, 11:42

Cheers Mate! It will happen when it happens. Look on the good side: you are getting invaluable experience in coping with rotten flying weather!

Just think how it would be if you learned in creampuff weather, went solo, and then copped a pasting!

You are doing it the right way.

Just for the record, did the first navex today. About a 140 nm triangle. Trying to minimise the bits of paper, pencils, maps and erasers that I\'m juggling. Trying to get the right frequencies and make the right calls to radar, local and military controllers and so on. Recompute ETA, track groundspeed, SARtime, fuel and so on.

Oh - and fly the plane as well.

Going to go out and do some circuits tomorrow or Thursday to get used to the Warrior a bit better - of course the new DC headset will make my flying infinitely better.:E

kookabat

12th Oct 2004, 15:01

Anyway, that’s UK aviation for you so I either get used to it or stress myself out!
... it's not just UK aviation... wait until you start doing navs!!! Then again, had beautiful wx today. Damn hot though... pretty bumpy towards the end of it.

Sunfish...
Just for the record, did the first navex today. About a 140 nm triangle. Trying to minimise the bits of paper, pencils, maps and erasers that I\'m juggling. Trying to get the right frequencies and make the right calls to radar, local and military controllers and so on. Recompute ETA, track groundspeed, SARtime, fuel and so on.

Oh - and fly the plane as well.

Going to go out and do some circuits tomorrow or Thursday to get used to the Warrior a bit better

Looks like you're a few weeks behind me... did the same thing not too long ago. Doncha just love juggling everything and keeping on something resembling proper altitude and heading...
:uhoh: It gets better after a while!! (then they start giving you diversions... :\ )

Adam

mazzy1026

18th Oct 2004, 15:09

No, sorry, it’s not my solo but a very interesting and challenging lesson indeed. Because I am waiting for the weather to do my solo, it was agreed that I needed to do something else and get out of the circuit for now, because I have done a hell of a lot and need to do something else. So today, we decided to go to Blackpool.

Got all sorted and started checklists etc then parked into wind to do power checks etc. this is the thing, for the past 2 lessons now I have missed things in the checklist – I am too eager to get going and I miss a page out, or I say we are ready to get clearance when really I should be at 1800 rpm checking the magnetos! I think it is eagerness to fly, and next time I get in the aircraft, I am gonna slow down a little to make sure I don’t miss anything out – don’t wanna look unsafe! The thing is, I seem to recall saying something like this in an earlier entry, where I was missing things off the checklist – I need to work on this or it may just let me down on the check ride!

So on to the flight. We would leave the zone standard VFR via Seaforth, head out towards Maghull, then remain east abeam Woodvale and onto Blackpool. It was decided that we wouldn’t talk to Woodvale on the way there, but to try and contact Warton instead – so we did:

“Warton Tower Golf ####”
nothing………….
“Warton Tower Golf ####”

Ok, still no reply so we went over to Blackpool ATIs, copied the details, then stood by on their approach freq. This is the point where I could feel my legs tingling with adrenalin, because I knew what was coming up. Something which I had only done in a practical exam, which scared the sh*t out of me. The dreaded position report. Ok so my instructor went through what I needed to say briefly, and I remembered from the RT oral. I hit the PTT button and off I went:

Who we are: G#### is a PA38
Where we are from and where going: routing Blackpool to Liverpool
Any checkpoints: via Ormskirk (or currently overhead)
Our height: at 1600 feet
The pressure setting: QNH 1013
With ATIS: with information November
What we want: requesting flight information service.

Et oila! It all came out smoothly with no glitches like “errr” or “ummm”. I couldn’t believe it – I actually got it right! Approach quickly responded with out FIS. The way I done it was to remember the first 3 parts which are obvious essentials, then a quick glance at the altimeter, quick glance at kneeboard to get QNH (which no matter how much I remember, will always forget once I hit the PTT button) we have their ATIS and we want something! To be honest, it was ten times harder in the exam, because of 2 reasons, firstly, the information I was giving in the exam was false, i.e. made up for the purpose of the exam – I didn’t have any instruments, and I couldn’t visually see where I was, it was more a case of remembering the hard core speech. Secondly, there was more pressure on me in the exam to get it right in order to pass – ok I know you have to get it right in the air which is more important, but I am sure you know where I am coming from.

We then requested a join and set up for the landing – it was more difficult than I originally thought spotting the airport, I will always remember it is roughly south of Blackpool tower (the tourist attraction one!). I set up for the approach and got it all sorted. It was weird landing at another airfield, the runway was much shorter and much narrower – no room for too many mistakes! I ballooned it once – I flared and didn’t hold it for long enough, letting it come down to quick, then as I tried to keep the nose wheel up for a smooth touch down, up she went again! Bas***d I thought to myself, it is so frustrating knowing you have done a crap landing, when the last one the other week was perfect. Anyway, we departed right at the end of the runway and went to the GA apron to pay the £15 landing fee – bit steep I thought but the controller have a bloody tough job looking after 3 (or 6) runways. The airways just seemed constantly packed and aircraft were being told to hold and go around left right and centre. Too much to take in for now, so I had a wind down walking to the C point to pay fees.

Back to do a quick oil and fuel check then back in the cockpit for the full departure checks. We requested taxi and navigated through what seemed a complicated mass of holding points and taxi ways. I had the map of the airport on my lap which helped (it is essential of course) but it was still a mass of confusion. After the longest hold I have experienced so far, we got airborne. This time we were going to talk to Woodvale, as this would be more good practice in talking to different ATCO’s etc.

It all went well again from here, got the position reports sorted no problem and headed back to home base (no not the DIY store). We had a decent tail wind and got back before you could blink an eye lid – just as I would say “Kirkby in five” it quickly became “Kirkby in 3”! I have one question for you guys – I was gonna discuss it with my instructor after the flight but was on a bit of a high and forgot to ask. We asked for a JOIN instead of a REJOIN – what’s the difference?

The landing this time was good – I have had better, but compared to the one at Blackpool, it was good hehe. This lesson was fantastic, I had a great time and learned lots of new things. I think it is worth pointing out that the use of my newly acquired air band receiver has been of great use. I mainly hear people putting in position reports and am getting used to the style and context of RT – a great investment. A valuable lesson I learned today was get a pen without a bloody lid, and keep it either in your hand or extremely close by because it seemed like essay writing, the amount of stuff I had to write down. Kept arse**g around with the lid and this, that and the other.

Now I am just waiting for solo. I am at the point where doing circuits on a windy day is just a costly way of getting not very far, I may even cancel a circuit session if it is solo’able – what do you think?

Sorry for the long post – a lot to write as there was a lot to take in.

Safe flying all, and again, keep up the posts, which I do appreciate.

Lee

Gertrude the Wombat

18th Oct 2004, 18:08

I am gonna slow down a little to make sure I don’t miss anything out – don’t wanna look unsafe! Wrong attitude. You don't want to be unsafe, not you don't want to look unsafe.

Here's my story of hurrying through a check list the other day. We survived. Others haven't.

The club 172 checklist says to check that the fuel selector is on "both" three times, once in PRELIMINARY, once in INTERNAL AND PRE STARTING and once in PRE TAKE OFF.

Over the top, surely?

Er, no, it turns out, the third occurrence of this check is in fact vital.

On finding that the aircraft had enough fuel for 2hr15, when I needed 1hr30 plus reserve, I decided to refuel. I did all the external and cockpit checks before taxiing to the fuel pump, because I wasn't going to go to all the trouble of refueling an aircraft if it were to turn out to be U/S. So, checks done, I taxied to the fuel pump, and shut down according to the check list ... including setting the fuel selector back to RIGHT.

After refuelling I "obviously" didn't need to repeat all the checks I'd already done ... so ran quickly through the first parts of the check list making sure I repeated everything important ... or at least thought I did. So it was a bit of a shock to find the selector still on RIGHT when I got to the third occurrence of the fuel selector check during the PRE TAKE OFF checks.

Now, for this particular flight we would have survived anyway, as the entire flight to the destination could have been conducted with the contents of one full tank leaving plenty to spare, and I've have gone through the check list again anyway for the flight home. But I've just been reading The Killing Zone again, with its stories of people who killed themselves and their passengers by getting the fuel selector wrong ...

So:

* Thank you to whoever put that check in the check list three times.

* I will in future be much more careful about deciding to skip bits of check lists that don't need doing again because I just did them ten minutes ago.

* This was also an "unfamiliarity with the aircraft" problem, as most of my flying was on the 152s with a different fuel selector regime, and I've only done a few hours on the 172s.

* I must somehow get into the habit of checking the fuel selector in my FREDA checks (yes, I've just looked, it is in that section of the club check list too, but again I got into my FREDA habit on the 152s where the selector lever was never ever moved for anything).

Sunfish

18th Oct 2004, 19:26

Gawwwwd Gertrude! I hope I never do that! Whenever I do the checks I start at the beginning and if someone interrupts me as has happened) I go back at least two steps just in case.

TOday I'm off to do Navex number two. I'm flying the Warrior a bit rough, especially the landings. I think I've worked out why - its not a C150 and I have to fly a wider and longer circuit because its about 10-15 knots faster in cruise and base is 80 knots, not 75 and final is 70 knots, not 65. I kept wondering on the weekend why I was 100 feet to high all the time on landing - which resulted in some pretty awful landings.

Idiot me was using my favourite C150 aiming points! This is a bad habit even when flying a C150!

mazzy1026

19th Oct 2004, 07:46

GTW: you are quite right, I do apologise. Use of the wrong words I think there :ok:

Sunfish - keep it up mate, practise will see to that :cool:

c-bert

19th Oct 2004, 09:41

Mazzy,

It was a join and not a rejoin because you had landed away and in effect where completing a seperate flight if you see what I mean.. :confused:

Spikeee

19th Oct 2004, 12:30

We requested taxi and navigated through what seemed a complicated mass of holding points

I remember the 1st time I went to Blackpool on my practice QXC. When we landed the controller gave taxi instruction which I was totally unprepared for! I quickly got my chart out and it seemed really complicated!

The next time (on the QXC) it wasnt too bad, after the 1st time its never as bad, but i sooooo know what you mean!

I was looking at Heathrow's, now thats impressive!

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32LL0201.PDF

The words 'say again' would be greatly over used if I flew there! :D

Sounds like your enjoying it, good luck with the weather for your solo!

Spikeee

kookabat

20th Oct 2004, 02:49

We requested taxi and navigated through what seemed a complicated mass of holding points
hehehe... me at Canberra the other day... got lost, had to get clearance to enter the runway to find our way again... who forgot to put a reverse gear on the Warrior????

I'm flying the Warrior a bit rough, especially the landings. I think I've worked out why - its not a C150 and I have to fly a wider and longer circuit because its about 10-15 knots faster in cruise and base is 80 knots, not 75 and final is 70 knots, not 65. I kept wondering on the weekend why I was 100 feet to high all the time on landing - which resulted in some pretty awful landings

Yep... that was me a few months back too. After the ol' 152 it felt a bit weird to actually feel a bit of acceleration when you open the throttle!! And the aircraft actually climbs occasionally... :D I was so far behind that aeroplane the first few times I flew it.

Adam

(flying back to Canberra next week... hope I don't get lost again!!)

Milt

20th Oct 2004, 03:47

Kookabat

No problem - Canberra is over here.

Don't fall for that one Maizzy.

Student came up on RT to ATC requesting taxy.

Tower requested present position.

Student to Tower "I'm over here"

I'll post a description of Del's "Brevet" qualification flight at Hendon 1913 when your much awaited solo report is made.

Your QFI will probably say a few well chosen words. Remember them as we want to know what he said.

kookabat

20th Oct 2004, 05:47

Canberra the airport I can find... just finding the right runway to take off from again is a bit difficult... :\

hehehe

adwjenk

20th Oct 2004, 18:02

hey Mazzy 1026

Just started to read ur thread and its amazing!!!
I am currently to flying at EGGP and completed my first solo on August 21st best experiance of my life espically since im just 16.
Ur on a high for ages.
Thanks in giving me an insight into the RT oral exam found that very useful keep on posting hope u go solo soon but the whether has been dreadful. Best of luck maybe ill cu at ravenair one day

ADWJENK

mazzy1026

21st Oct 2004, 11:47

ADWJENK

Hi mate - your welcome, glad you like it. I am next door at LFS (hangar 4) so let me know when your next down there and I will say hi.

Good to see you have gone solo, especially at such a young age! I have still had bad luck with the weather :{

Best regards

Lee :ok:

FingersR

21st Oct 2004, 13:39

Hi Mazzy!

I know the feeling with the weahter- Im (hopefully!) due to solo on Saturday weather providing!!!

Fingers

Blinkz

21st Oct 2004, 14:14

Mazzy,
Just want to say great thread! I'm 2 weeks into my PPL, got just over 7 hours so far, have done 3 circuit details, altho the weather at the moment isn't amazing. Its werid how much of your diary I can relate too!

I'm flying from EGPH so its a really busy place, but its great to fly around 737s and airbuses. My RT at the moment is abit patchy, I keep forgeting what the ATCO has said, but I'm getting better. I'm flying a PA38 too, its a nice little aircraft, but I've not flown anything else yet apart from gliders so don't have much comparison. I've been known to miss part of the checklists too! Although I realise before the instructor says anything lol.

Why can't the UK have better weather!!!! :p

c-bert

21st Oct 2004, 14:22

And cheaper fuel!

Hampshire Hog

22nd Oct 2004, 10:40

Hi All,

After nearly a month and a half of enforced abstinance, I called my flying school one morning when the weather looked reasonable and asked - can you do a lesson today - any instructor will do!!! By the afternoon, the beautiful blue sky had clouded over, but I enjoyed an hour of circuit bashing revision with an instructor I hadn't flown with before. I've found I've learned something new from every different person I've flown with, but like to return to my own instructor when possible, because I feel he has the personal responsibility and interest in my training.

Still haven't gone solo - same reason as Mazzy - weather but, having just finished my MBA, I'm now planning to focus my efforts on the flying. Just to keep up the studying, I thought I might get on with the rest of the PPL exams too! Might get more time to call in here occasionally as well.

Be glad to get rid of this unfriendly weather.

HH

Blinkz

22nd Oct 2004, 18:23

Hey guys,
just to let y'all know that I passed my airlaw exam today, managed to get 97%, and the one mistake was stupid! oh well. will have to aim for 100% on the next one. Hopefully the weather will b ok for a lesson tomorrow, introduction to VORs and navaids :)

FingersR

22nd Oct 2004, 19:05

Nice work Binkz!:ok:

Vee One...Rotate

22nd Oct 2004, 20:18

Blinkz,

Well done sir :ok:

V1R

mazzy1026

23rd Oct 2004, 16:09

Great work Blinkz - it's a good feeling innit. Put the same effort in for the rest of the exams that you have evidently already put in for Air Law and you will pass them all!

Hoping for solo tomorrow guys - just dont want no :mad: wind!

Regards

A very anxious Lee :bored:

Blinkz

23rd Oct 2004, 17:49

Thanks guys.
Managed a lesson today, was my first time in a different aircraft, a pa28-161 no less, very nice to fly, much smoother/easier to control then my usual tommy, different speeds but got used to that pretty quickly. Did the intro to nav-aids today, my heads still spinning!! I need to sit down and try and figure it all out lol.

Good luck mazzy!! You'll be fine :cool:

Hampshire Hog

26th Oct 2004, 11:43

Hi all,

Lesson booked yesterday - too much wind - cancelled again:{

Now I've booked about 7 in the hope I might get one of them!

HH

c-bert

29th Oct 2004, 12:52

Hope you get some done! I've given up even booking lessons at the mo as I'm waiting for the QXC and I think decent wx across the south is highly unlikely for a while.
How did the MBA go?

Hampshire Hog

29th Oct 2004, 13:21

Hi c-bert,

MBA exam went ok (I think!). Results due just before Christmas (nice present!).

Looks like there's a nice high forecast for the beginning of next week, so here's hoping. (Have spent a good few hours honing my skills on FS9 over the last couple of weeks!)

Are you still confined to flying at weekends? Hopefully we'll get some of that lovely still, clear, winter weather that should allow you to do your QXC soon.

HH

c-bert

29th Oct 2004, 14:06

Well I still work if that is what you mean! The QXC will have to be done on a weekend but I'm back at home now so I can fly evenings, except of course it now gets dark at 4 :{ .
I heard about the high over the weekend but I also hear that because it is coming off the Atlantic it should be bringing lots of stratus with it. As they say, it never rains but its gets bloody cloudy....
Fingers crossed for that weather and your MBA! :ok:

kookabat

30th Oct 2004, 12:00

Well the weather's been pretty good recently when I've been booked to do my next nav... but now the aeroplane's gone u/s.
Seems this is the story:
-Aeroplane
-Instructor
-Weather ----> Pick any two of three!

Adam

mazzy1026

31st Oct 2004, 08:57

I had been checking the weather every single day to get updates on what today’s whether would be like. It appeared that it was due to be calm for the first time in ages. My lesson was booked for the Saturday this time, rather than the usual Sunday. When I woke on Saturday at around 0930 the first thing I did was ring up and check Liverpool ATIS. The one thing I was looking for was the wind, which was 8 kts. A little annoyed again, but not anywhere near as bad as it has been for all my circuit lessons. So I rang up again an hour or so later: “6 kts”. It was slowly going down. By around 1300 it was 1 or 2 kts – on its way to calm (lesson at 1500).

When I got there, it was dead calm. Not a single breeze. I was sat in the lounge waiting around and preparing things, when thee biggest downpour came along. I thought I must be the unluckiest guy on the planet, having wind on every lesson, and now the rain once the wind has gone! *****! I sat there thinking “it aint gonna happen today”. Anyways, my instructor came along and he said we would go in the circuit, and see what happens. The rain had this time completely passed, it was a very quick downpour (one thing going right).

So off we go, the usual checks, power checks, taxi etc and away we are. Circuits were going fine, apart form the haze/fog which was significantly thick (yet another bit of bad luck). We could still see the airfield reasonably well, but there was no clear horizon to the south of the airfield, so that meant on takeoff, crosswind and downwind, we had no horizon (we were using runway 09). Still though, there was nothing too difficult and we had 5 successful circuits. On the taxi way back to the apron, my instructor hit the PTT button:

“Tower, would like to make a request….”
“Go ahead G-SD”
“Would like to send my student on first solo?”
“Approved G-SD”

Well I ****. And that’s exactly what I said to him when he got off the radio. I genuinely thought I wouldn’t be soloing today and that I would have to wait at least another week. At this point every single cell in my body was swimming in adrenalin, I must have had a pint of the stuff pumped in me. I was so bloody excited; fear isn’t the right word, just nerves and happiness throughout. Anyway, aside with the emotional content for now, the taxi back to the apron was the longest taxi ever. When we got there he gave me a small brief about how it would climb quicker and come down slower, he got on with it and just jumped out the aircraft, he has a lot of faith in me and he just let me get on with it.

When he shut the door I felt like the most isolated person in the world. Totally alone with nowhere to turn. The thing is though, at this point I thought I would be trembling, but I wasn’t. It was simply overwhelming excited ness. So I done a quick magneto check, got the ATIS and put in the call. Because I was so used to mainly using rw27 I took the airfield chart out the back of my knee board just to make sure I was clear about the taxi ways at the 09 end. I think at this point I had a strange repetitive condition. I kept looking at the chart just to make sure I had read it right, Echo the Foxtrot coming back in, Echo then Foxtrot. I must have looked at it 20 times, even though I knew what I was looking at, don’t ask me why! So I was told to taxi to Echo, which is a backtrack (not on the runway) of pretty much the entire length of the runway. Again, this felt like 10 years, rolling down there, not too slow, not too fast. Keep the nose on the yellow line, don’t panic, you’ll be coming back down here in 15 mins (hopefully)! So I got to Echo and waited 10 mins, there were a few aircraft coming in so this wait felt (again) like light years. I kept putting carb heat on every couple of mins (again, probably doing it too much – was just making sure!)

So I heard a call on the radio:

“After the landing Cessna, line up and wait G-Sierra (crackle)”

(I 90% knew it was me and thought I would reply after a few seconds with the read back and the full call sign – he never came back so it confirmed it was me he was talking to – ok so maybe I should have confirmed properly!)

When the aircraft landed, I was to make doubly sure:

“Lining up to wait G-SD”
“G-SD”

As soon as I heard that I knew this was it. Lined up and waited for the call, which then came in:

“G-SD cleared takeoff not above 1500……………..”
“Cleared takeoff G-SD”.

Putting on full power was amazing, knowing that as soon as those back wheels leave the ground, I am all alone and must make a successful flight. Looking at the right hand seat and seeing it empty other than for a few charts, was the strangest feeling in the world. You all know the feeling! I got to 500 feet a lot quicker due to our weight being less, so when I turned crosswind, I extended it for about 30 seconds, to get a good distance from the runway for the downwind. So I put the downwind call in and was told to report ready for base. Before I reported base, I was given traffic information and told I would be number two to a Cessna on final, I immediately spotted the Cessna and reported visual and number 2. Seen it land, then I became number one – I was again alone - in the circuit! I turned onto base and was made up with the flight so far. I remember my instructor saying it would come down slower, so I started the descent ever so slightly early – which turned out to be the correct decision. Full flaps and started turn to final. I remember a friend of mine (who is a Nav in the RAF) saying to me: “think of a song for your first solo”. Well, I thought if I do that I will probably forget to use the radio – so I never sung to myself…….yet! I put the final call in and then started singing out loud – I am crazy yes but I was just so happy to be doing this and I had set up on a good approach.

I couldn’t have been any happier with the landing, straight down the centre line and no ballooning or floating like I had done previously. It went so well I am just over the moon. I put the call in to taxi back and ATC congratulated me on completion. I must say that the help I received that day was excellent and the chap in the tower was great. I thanked them properly on my way into the apron. I was made up. I saw my instructor pointing to me to where to park, and the last hurdle now was not hitting another aircraft (how annoying would that be after a successful solo, to hit an aircraft on the ground….) And before you say it, no I never hit nothing! Done a quick shutdown and was greeted by my instructor with a handshake. I told him how it went and made my way back to the office.

Well, I will spare any more emotional descriptions if I can but I am now the happiest guy on earth. This has to be number one so far in the best day of your life book. And like you lot all said to me, I couldn’t get the smile off my face! I got a great bottle of champagne with a personal label on it, which I think I will keep and not drink (even though I wanted to) – thanks to LFS and my instructor for having faith in me. If I may quote myself from earlier posts, I never even thought of getting this far, but here I am, my first P1 SELF post of 20 mins in my logbook! And thank you once again to all the people in here that give me confidence and positive vibes – THANKS!

Until the next solo circuit session,

A very very happy

Lee :ok:

magpienja

31st Oct 2004, 12:02

Congatulation lee well done sounds like it was perfect.

Nick.

Vee One...Rotate

31st Oct 2004, 12:43

Excellent read Lee. I was feeling some of the excitement/nerves just reading it!

Fantastic job :ok:

Well done. Better get started notching up that P1 time, eh!?

V1R :)

Blinkz

31st Oct 2004, 13:50

Congrats mate!!!!!!!!!!! So happy for you. Great feeling isn't it? Just when you look over and see that empty seat. My solo (in gliders) I just got to the top of the launch and shout yea!!!!! :D

Sounds like you did a great job of it, I've always been told that ur first solo landing will always be your best, because your concentrating so much!

It was a gorgeous day up here too, but I've got a cold so decieded to sit it out :{

Congrats again mate :ok:

Happyeater

31st Oct 2004, 14:18

Magic Lee. What an experience, so pleased that it went so well for you. Great stuff.

What was your song btw?

Paul

Milt

31st Oct 2004, 23:36

mazzy

There were many of us mentally flying with you on your first solo.
Well done and walk tall!

How did Del do it back in 1913 without any dual instruction?

You have seen the account of his first flight in a Caudron wing warper at Hendon. Well the following is Del's account, from copious diary entries, of his close equivalent to your solo. The surrounding incidents help set the scene of those early days of aviation.

THE BREVET

Continuing from Del's first/solo flight in a Caudron at Hendon in 1913.

Immediately after his return to Hendon Del's thoughts and plans were thrown into near chaos by circumstances over which he had no influence and that seemed to put his entire future in jeopardy.

Firstly a crisis in the French associations came when Monsieur Deperdussin, the wealthy tycoon, who as an enthusiastic and philanthropic supporter of the struggling aviation industry was involved as an innocent puppet in a share-broking scandal. He was arrested and goaled until at a later date his innocence was established and he was released. The immediate effect at Hendon was that his flying school closed down and the pupils who had paid 100 pounds to learn to fly, could not complete their training. Simultaneously another scandal swept through the Ewan school. It seemed that Mr Ewan had purchased a prize winning Wolseley car at the recent Olympia motor show, (with company funds) and was using it for his own private purposes. He had not previously informed, nor obtained his co_directors agreement, for the payment of 800 pounds for the car, and they felt he had greatly exceeded his authority in the purchase. Some directors therefore obtained a legal writ to seize the car and sell it, but the foxy Ewan got wind of the action and removed and hid the car in London.

Now rumours immediately began to circulate that the Ewan Company was in default of payments and would be sold up. Following the Duperdussin debacle it seemed that Ewan's students, including Del, would likely follow the path of the French company's embryo pilots. It later transpired that one of the major directors, Sir W Ramsay sorted things out, the car was paid for by Ewan and the company resumed normal business.

Had the rumours been laid low at an early stage of the proceedings by a forthright statement from the directors, no damage would have been done as the company was quite financially sound, only the bickering had to be stopped. But to Del, like the other students and staff, it seemed that suddenly his whole world was about to collapse and leave him in England without his brevet.

It was the 22nd December 1913, three days before Christmas. Del felt he must do something quickly about his flying test and not wait until early in the New Year as had been planned. By then rumour had it Ewan would be bankrupt.

Del went to see Ed Beaumann and Frank. He told them that he had to return to Australia as soon as possible and asked them to arrange for him to fly his test immediately, to_day if possible. The weather was fine, Ed and Frank knew he would have no trouble in being successful, so they arranged for two Certificate observers to be available at 3 pm. One was the South African, J F Weston, the other a test pilot with the Handley Page Company Mr E Whitehouse.

To make sure nothing could now go wrong, Del took Ed to lunch, to ensure he would be present at the test and not get preoccupied with his office work. So after lunch they gathered at the aerodrome, and Del was once more briefed on the requirements of the test. He was to take-off, climb to 500 feet then fly level whilst making five figure of 8 turns, close the throttle and volplane in for a landing as close as possible to a white strip of cloth stretched and pegged out on the ground near the centre of the aerodrome. Then he was to repeat the whole exercise a second time.

As Del helped to wheel out the Caudron he noticed that Willows had taken his ungainly dirigible out for one of its rare flights, and now it was floating around close to the aerodrome in a seemingly aimless fashion, constantly changing its location and height. There was no point in waiting for it to be brought down, this was the shortest day of the year, and by four thirty it would be almost dark. Now at 3 o'clock it was both misty and dull.

Del completed his usual check of the aircraft's condition, climbed in and was soon taxying out. He noted that the breeze had picked up a little, also the dirigible was still flying around near the aerodrome boundary. He took off, positioned himself over the middle of the aerodrome and commenced his series of turns, 360 degrees to the left, then one to the right, one to the left and so on.

During his second turn he was distracted to see that the damn gas bag was right on his height and heading towards him. He avoided the unwieldy obstruction, but throughout his entire flight it seemed he was haunted by that airship, forever it seemed to be obstructing his carefully controlled turns. Completing his first series of turns, he landed close to the markers taxied back, again took off and resumed his battle with the dirigible. But now, a little wiser from his first encounter, he was able to watch and plan his circles to avoid coming too close to it. He landed finally, and with immense satisfaction touched down spot on the white marker.

Back at the hangar, Del felt fairly annoyed at having to cope with this cumbersome hindrance to his test flight and vehemently said so as they discussed the flight.

"Oh don't worry Mr Badgery" said Mr. Weston "You coped very well; you have passed your test. I'll see you get your certificate as soon after the Christmas holidays as possible. Meantime you may act as a fully licensed aeroplane pilot".

So Monday 22nd December 1913 really was Del's triumphant day. He would never forget his first circuit of the aerodrome for the wonderful feeling of exalted elation but this day was somehow different. He HAD accomplished what he had set out to do, it seemed so long ago since he sailed out of Sydney harbour heads, his feeling now was not so much of elation but thankfulness that he had at last realised his primary goal. He always knew he would make it, somehow deep inside he had that self assurance but now he had heard the magic words and knew it was a reality.

In response to frantic yells and calls from the aerodrome they went back outside and watched a real pantomime that nearly ended in tragedy. The crew of the dirigible had attempted to land their ungainly monster in the centre of the aerodrome. To do that they had to bring it over the intended point of landing, lower a long rope with an anchor attached stop the motor and at the same time vent a quantity of gas from the airship. This allowed it to sink down until the ground crew could seize the rope and pull it to the hangar.

The breeze by now had increased and in the gathering gloom the ground handlers had missed the rope and the wind blew the semi_deflated gas bag away from the aerodrome and over the eight tracks of the main Midland Railway system. The anchor finally caught in the boundary fence of the railway line, and the dirigible was tethered right above the rail tracks. Express steam locomotives were roaring and pounding past to and from St Pancras Station every few minutes at speeds around 50 miles per hour, with whistles screeching as their drivers suddenly came upon this great rippling gas_bag in the evening dusk, suspended right over their path. With the anchor rope caught, the effect of the wind passing over the dirigible caused the top of the envelope to glitter violently and it was forced down lower and lower towards the rail tracks. The ground crew and all available people including Del's group from the Ewan hangar heaved away and with a scant three feet between the top of the passing locomotives and the bottom of the gondola, the dirigible was finally towed clear and hauled back to the hangar.

Once again Mrs Crump immediately saw the change in her Aussie's boarder's composure. He had become increasingly moody lately, she sensed that something was wrong at the hangar but said nothing; she didn't understand these mad fliers anyway. She had noted how despondent he seemed this morning, as he ate breakfast in virtual silence with none of the usual cheerfulness she had come to know. Now Del was bubbling over with happiness - he had passed his test at last and all the world was alright again. Mrs Crump also knew that meant that soon she would lose her Aussie as he would be off back home now that his mission was complete.

A few weeks later whilst doing the rounds of the various aviation companies in London he often called at the Royal Aero Club in Piccadilly. There it was confirmed that his Aviator's Certificate would be issued to him, as from the date of his examination, 22nd December 1913. Also his name had been placed upon the Competitor's Register, entitling him to take part as a pilot in racing at Hendon or in any other competitions conducted under Royal Aero Club rules but he would not be availing himself of this endowment.

His Aviator's Certificate (Brevet) was handed to him on 19th January 1914, No 717 of the Federation Aeronautique International, issued by the Royal Aero Club as "the sporting authority in the British Empire" and recognised by the FAI.

The word "sporting" indicates the official conception of aviation in those pioneering years. Flying was a sport or pastime, and nothing more than that, until it was developed for military use during the rapidly approaching war, and on scheduled passenger and mail operations many years later.

In the constraints that his Certificate imposed, Del could make a career for himself as a professional aviator in Australia only by giving exhibitions of flying with a charge for admission, or perhaps by establishing a Training School of Flying, or by manufacturing and acting as agent for the sale of aeroplanes and components to enthusiasts of this new sport. That would take time and would require considerable organisation and experience; but all beginnings are difficult and require total faith in one's own ability.

Delfosse Badgery went on to build a Caudron in Australia to become one of Australia's aviation pioneers. He later survived military flying operations in the the Middle East following many aviation firsts for Australia.

Sunfish

1st Nov 2004, 03:48

Congratulations Lee!

Hampshire Hog

1st Nov 2004, 10:14

Well done Lee,

Still waiting for my solo - my instructor keeps saying to book lessons assuming I might get to solo (i.e. right time, length), but weather keeps getting in the way. I was with you all the way with the first concern about whether you would actually get to fly that day!

Made my palms sweat just reading your description though. I like the idea of having a song to sing during the first time aloft on your own. Anyone any good suggestions;)

Paul

adwjenk

1st Nov 2004, 11:43

WELL DONR MAZZY

Its the best feeling in the world to do ur first solo and the landing is always the best.

I know the feeling about taxying back on Kilo tht was and is still my worst fear hitting an A/C espically when ur on ur own :bored:

AGAIN WELL DONE

ADWJENK

Vee One...Rotate

1st Nov 2004, 12:01

Hampshire Hog,

How about Kenny Loggins - Highway To The Danger Zone? Or Eddie Van Halen?

Or maybe a more leisurely bout of Tom Petty - Learning To Fly?

V1R :p

God, I'd love to have a little cassette player with some Kenny L. blasting out on final ;) Safety aside of course...!

BRL

1st Nov 2004, 12:02

Well done mate, now i must make my way up there for that drink. Jeez, the things you do for a pint...!!! :D

mazzy1026

1st Nov 2004, 12:13

Guys/gals thanks loads for the responses - it makes it all worth while :)

Milt - great story, thanks - very inspirational indeed. Wouldn't like to have been that airship pilot over the rails though :eek:

BRL - ahh yes my friend I remember you saying you would come up for a beer on my solo. Any time you want mate, any time - and that goes for anyone else too!

I sang Simply the Best by Tina Turner on final approach - dont ask me why the hell I done that, I dont even like the song at all, in fact I have no idea why I started mumbling that to myself - bit stupid innit, felt such a pr*ck looking back :rolleyes:

I just cant wait now for more solo flying - I am not sure what is round the corner, I cant remember the syllabus off the top of my head, but I presume there will be an hour or 2 of solo circuits, perhaps at Hawarden or Sleap, then will they let me out the zone?? :E That would be truly superb, I reckon I will feel the true freedom of flying, when I can fly over where I live and go where I want, and practice anything!

Thanks again - :ok:

Lee

radarcontrol

1st Nov 2004, 16:27

Hi Lee!!!

Very well done. I remember the feeling well. I went solo about 8 hours ago (8 flying hours) and it was, like you, the best day of my life so far. You'll land after the next solo flight with the same telltale grin - I actually found my subsequent solo flying more exciting and enjoyable than my first solo - probably due to a little more confidence and spending a good 40 or 50 minutes at a time by myself.

I dunno if your syllabus is the same as mine, but I assume it will be similar. I did 3 hours of solo circuit flying (great fun but a pricey business!) and then did PFL's and precautionary landings before getting to where I am now, which is just starting navigation. I think those 3 hours collectively are the best 3 hours I've spent doing anything ;) No dirty replies please LOL.

RC

Gertrude the Wombat

1st Nov 2004, 17:03

I like the idea of having a song to sing during the first time aloft on your own. Most people, it seems, just recite their checks out loud ...

g0kmt

1st Nov 2004, 22:44

Congratulations Lee. It had to happen one day :) and now it has :) Looks like it ws worth the wait. Like others you had me on the edge of my seat. Great stuff!!

SQUAWKIDENT

2nd Nov 2004, 14:28

Well Done Lee - and a great post. Woke me up at the office;)

Adam

mazzy1026

3rd Nov 2004, 09:16

Most people, it seems, just recite their checks out loud ...

Cant you just smell the sarcasm. Aint that what the dowind leg is for? On final approach, the checks I would be doing are:

Making sure left hand is on the controls and right hand is on the throttle.

Keeping centre line.

Keeping 70 knots and no lower.

Keeping the aircraft balanced (ball in the middle).

I would again check the brakes, mixture and carb.

If I am going wrong from what I have been taught or have missed anything out then please do educate me :suspect:

Thanks again for the nice replies people :ok:

ThePirateKing

3rd Nov 2004, 11:38

Mazzy,

Depends on what/where you're taught.

For example, in a PA28, my finals checks would be: last stage of flap, and carb heat off (having flown the base leg with 2 stages and carb heat on), and that's it (other than the physical handling).

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

Penguina

3rd Nov 2004, 12:59

Congratulations Mazzy! Your write-up brought it all back. :D

Don't be embarrassed about the song business; I burst spontaneously and without premeditation into 'Fly me to the moon' after I finished my downwind checks on my first solo. I really didn't plan to do it at all - don't know what came over me! :O (Having said that, I fly at a well-known north London aerodrome with a circuit that takes in most of Hertforshire, so I probably had more time than some)...

At least your song was released within the last quarter of a century... :hmm: :O

PS - my final checks STILL go 'and relax, and relax...'

Kolibear

3rd Nov 2004, 13:30

Congratulations Mazzy, :O

You'll never forget your first solo - no matter how many flights you make afterwards.

On my first solo I remember climbing up from the runway, taking a deep breath and saying 'Well, its up to you to get this thing back down again!' On my downwind leg, I was told to orbit. Thinking about it much later, it ocurred to me that the controller was hedging his bets, by getting the inbound aircraft down before me in case I spread myself across the runway!

Hope that you enjoy the rest of your training and I look forward to reading about it - this thread is bringing back some pleasant memorys.

FlyFreeWbe

3rd Nov 2004, 13:50

Hullo! Don't know if you remember me mazzy (page 12) but I've been following your story since you started. Well done with the first solo man, its a great feeling. Thing is, I have trouble remembering things of great importance..my mind goes in a blur. So while I know mine was the greatest, I couldn't tell you a thing about it! Keep up the progress man, it's well worth it in the end.

Speaking of the end, I passed my skills on sunday! Paper work done, and in the pipeline (under severe supervision). There is no feeling like it, waking up and knowing you can go flying because you're a full fledged pilot. Excellent :D.

Wrt penguina's post (hello btw, havnt chattd2u in a while) I still hum loony tune songs, or tom&jery ditties on final. Whatever floats your boat I say!

Keep em coming
FFW

Whirlybird

3rd Nov 2004, 16:17

Memory is a funny thing....

All I remember of my first solo (f/w) is looking at the empty seat next to me and finding it odd that no-one was there. I don't remember feeling good, or bad, or even indifferent. I just can't remember.

My first helicopter solo I remember thoroughly enjoying, and also an intense feeling of relief, as it has been postponed several times for all sorts of reasons.

My first night helicopter solo I enjoyed so very much that on the last circuit (I had to do five) I considered making downwind from Gloucester extend all the way to Worcester so that I didn't have to stop. It was a lovely night and I didn't want to land.

I remember my first flexwing microlight solo in great detail - bounce, go-around, realising the sun was going down fast, wanting to be on the ground, landing badly and wrenching my shoulder, thinking the congratulations were a complete farce.

Why can't I remember the good things? :confused: :{

Anyway, well done Mazzy. :ok: :ok: :ok:

Milt

3rd Nov 2004, 23:42

Mazzy

You ask about additional checks worth making on final approaches for landings.

Most of your approaches will be with power down a standard 3 degree slope. Most pilots get to recognise this angle very acurately and strive to stabilise their approaches as early as possible as they line up on the runway. When you start to recognise that 3 degree slope you begin to feel uncomfortable when you are not on it and deliberately fly to intercept it as early as possible. The rest of the final then tends to become standard and repeatable with precision leading to accurate arrivals at the flare and smooth touch downs.

So I would recommend you add another check to your list to be actioned as you initially line up on final.

"Am I on the right slope?"

If not make the correction EARLY.

Discuss this with your instructor.

Obs cop

3rd Nov 2004, 23:54

Lee,

Fantastic result with the first solo.

Well done and may it be the first of many flying achievements. Welcome to a very special group of people.

Obs cop

Sunfish

4th Nov 2004, 03:49

Went out today on my first Nav Solo. Did all my flight planning and had it checked by an instructor. Given a nice newly painted and freshly cleaned Warrior to fly with the instruction not to get it dirty and to see if it flew any faster with new paint.

Then "Seeya" and everybody else goes about their business and I'm left standing there thinking. I'm standing here with an aircraft. I'm not under any time pressure or pressure to perform manouevres or pass tests or anything. Just get in the aircraft when you are ready and take it to the Latrobe valley, land, eat sandwich, then takeoff and fly back via the scenic route. Don't break anything. Don't end up in controlled airspace and don't feature in the newspapers.

A slightly daunting feeling. No one to hold your hand and if you screw something up, then you had better fix it yourself because no one else can.

So much for the introspection and confidence thing. Anyway I had a good time. For once the air was smooth as velvet. Landmarks arrived at the appropriate time and from the right direction. The landing was OK.

Had a sandwich at Latrobe and watched an Airvan under test demonstrate how well it and its pilot handled when its engine decided to play up at 200 feet on takeoff - it didn't lose all power and it made a very neat and very tight circuit back to the gravel rather than the extra few seconds to the bitumen.

Then back via the scenic route. All in all two and a half hours of flying.

A very pleasant and satisfying morning.

kookabat

4th Nov 2004, 11:58

Nice work Lee... keep it coming!

Sunfish... you've now overtaken me... b#gger it! Can't wait for my first nav solo... still waiting for the aircraft to come back from a trip around the country though...

adam

mazzy1026

4th Nov 2004, 12:05

FFW - yes I remember you, hey I always thought first solo must be the best feeling but I cant imagine how good it is when you finally get your license and, like you said, can go flying whenever you want and be fully fledged - a truly amazing achievement I say and well done on passing, hope you have safe flying :)

Whirly - welcome back, nice to see you posting in here again! ;) The closest thing I can relate to from your post was the feeling of looking at the emtpy seat, when he opened the door, climbed out and shut it behind him this was the point that it hit me that it was all down to me!

Why can't I remember the good things?
You will always learn from the bad ones :ok:

Milt - on my first ever lesson my instructor might have said something like "a little too high" or "your a bit low" on the approach and I would think, "how the hell can you tell from such an acute angle?"

As I fly more now, I am starting to build up a picture of what the runway should look like on approach, i.e. what it's like to have the correct angle. I still might think I am on the right angle yet will be high or low etc - this will only come with years of experience I am sure. I think this is a subconscious check that we do whilst flying the approach (I am guessing there is no way to calculate the correct angle without the use of instruments (for an instrument approach)) and must therefore rely on this subconscious check?

Then "Seeya" and everybody else goes about their business and I'm left standing there thinking. I'm standing here with an aircraft.
That's gotta be another great feeling for the "lifes greatest moments logbook" eh :p Hopefully I will be doing that tomorrow if the weather is ok, (only in the circuit of course).

Obs - thanks mate, hope you are doing well with your IMC, I have missed a couple of your posts which I am about to catch up on now!

Safe flying all

Lee :ok:

Sunfish

4th Nov 2004, 20:31

Its a great feeling ! And there is so much more space to spread out maps, ERSA, and so on.

Blinkz

8th Nov 2004, 16:10

Just to hijack the thread again, today I went solo!!! :D

instructor popped the question out the blue, "so you fancy one by your self?"

hmm, let me think :D

So off I went. After that had half an hour break then a quick dual check, then I was off on my own again. Did 5 solo circuits today, so am well chuffed!!!!

Happyeater

8th Nov 2004, 18:16

And a very well done to you too. :D

kookabat

8th Nov 2004, 19:06

Gee, everyone's going solo. Must be the season for it... good on ya's!!:ok:

Well, 'my' aircraft's back... but then the wx turns to cr@p again, doesn't it!! :rolleyes: I was supposed to go to Canberra again today... Showers of rain forecast all day :{ . I just can't win.

Ahh well, we'll get there one day...

ADam

Sunfish

9th Nov 2004, 03:37

Never mind Kooka. It will happen when it will happen.

mazzy1026

9th Nov 2004, 10:34

Great stuff blinkz - keep us well posted ;)

FingersR

10th Nov 2004, 11:58

Just wanted to let you guys know that I have joined the "bandwagon"! I went solo 2 weekends ago and last weekend did a further 4 circuits by myself- Awesome feeling! My first solo's circuit itself went well, however the landing was a little "firm" shall we say...:D :) Second time out the landings were better (just hope i have not jinxed this weekend now!) Anyone else noticed the difference in performance when the right hand seat is vacant? My 152 leaps off the runway! Roll on learning to navigate and landing on grass!

Cheers

Fingers

SkySista

10th Nov 2004, 14:08

CONGRATS!!!!!!

All you guys!!! (girls?)

have been watching this thread with much interest the last week or so.... am insaaaaaaaanely jealous!!!! :)

The closest I am to solo flying is a can of soft drink..... Solo..... err.... never mind :D

:ok:

Sky

mazzy1026

10th Nov 2004, 17:54

Nice one Fingers, well done. Absolutely amazing isn't it - the buzz just doesnt go away!

Sista - hang in there kidda, it will happen! And when it does, make sure you post it here!

Lee :cool:

FingersR

10th Nov 2004, 19:23

Thanks Mazzy! u 2! How u getting on with ground school?

Wont be long for you either hey Sky???

Hampshire Hog

11th Nov 2004, 08:57

Congrats to everyone who has recently gone solo. I'm still waiting even to fly. Aaaargh, this weather!!! It's been really nice the last couple of days (while I've been at work), but earlier in the week, when I had lessons booked ...

I've now decided, if I can't fly, to do my met exam tomorrow. Maybe I will then be able to make better predictions than our forecasters:D

HH

kookabat

11th Nov 2004, 11:11

Aaaargh, this weather!!! It's been really nice the last couple of days (while I've been at work), but earlier in the week, when I had lessons booked ...

You get used to it eventually... :(

Adam

mazzy1026

11th Nov 2004, 11:54

The weather is now firmly on my list of "things that p*ss you off" - but you just have to accept it (or move to another country) :E

I supposed ground school isn't something which I have really talked about, mainly because I havent had any yet! The way I done it was to buy the kit from AFE, which is a great investment and contains everything you need. Luckily, as I am anviation buff (arent we all) I enjoy reading the books and studying the material (PPL Confuser - a MUST HAVE). This means I can be well prepared for the exam and pass them on self study.

So far I have done:

Air Law
Meteorology
Human Performance
RT Oral

I understand that in order to pass Nav (or at least pass it with the best interests in mind) you need to practice it within your flying - call it 'skyschool' if you like :} I reckon it will be the last one I do!

If anyone does have any exam questions they need help on or any info at all, then stick it in here - it would be interesting to share.

Happy flying and dont get too down about the weather :{

Lee :ok:

FingersR

11th Nov 2004, 13:24

Cool. I have done Airlaw and Human Factors so far. Busy studying Met as we speak. I've not had any formal "classroom" sessions and am self teaching using the Jermey Pratt books (personally prefer the style to Thom) and also am using the Transair / Oxfoird Avaition CBT for Met - which I'd throughly recommend. All good fun :D

mazzy1026

11th Nov 2004, 18:27

Ditto! I am also using Jeremy Pratt - I have read tonnes of opinions on here about which books to use, but you just have to pick the ones that are best suited to you - and to be honest, I think you would do just as good whichever you choose. Saying that, I have never seen the Thom ones so I cant really say :confused:

Blinkz

11th Nov 2004, 19:27

I'm also using the pratt books, and am currently studying met! We should all meet up on msn and have a met discussion lol :E

I've only done airlaw so far. Met seems ok, afew things need reading twice :)

FingersR

11th Nov 2004, 19:56

sounds good blinkz! Ill PM u my msn account name!

CB1

11th Nov 2004, 20:54

WOW...that took longer than i thought!! Discovered this thread at about 19:55 and just finished now!!

Good stuff and great foresight to see that this would be a valuable idea lee/mazza (i'll stick with the user name for now!!)

I'm way back with a couple of hours under my belt deciding the next step I wish to take. I've have found this thread extremely entertaining (must have been to keep me entertained for two hours!!). Just wanted to say thanks and good luck with the rest mazza et al, I'm sure i'll keep checking up on it from now on!!

CB1

FingersR

11th Nov 2004, 21:21

Hi CB1 Welcome aboard! Your captain for this flight is Mazzy (ably;) ) assisted by many a co pilot!

Fingers

Captainkarl

11th Nov 2004, 21:32

im 15 and I have just had my confidence boost after realising I can land the bloody thing! (properly!):O i was getting a little worried that I was just wasting hours but im 20.92 logged with another 24 remaing so all looks good! Any advice/tips for flapless landings, glide landings etc?

Vee One...Rotate

11th Nov 2004, 21:44

CB1,

Don't feel bad, I've only got 4 and a bit hours so far...which will hopefully become 5 and bit by tomorrow evening...weather permitting :confused:

V1R

c-bert

12th Nov 2004, 14:03

Scheduled to do my QXC tomorrow. Sh*tting bricks!

Hampshire Hog

12th Nov 2004, 14:14

Hi all,

C-bert - best of luck for that QXC! Let me know how it goes.

Well, at last I made it into the air today. Warm front coming down from the North and not looking too good when I left home but, by the time I made it to Wycombe, the end of the cloud was in site and my instructor thought it would be worth waiting to see if we got some flyable weather before the forecast cold front materialised.

I occupied the waiting time by sitting my Met exam, which I'm relieved to say I passed. One of the questions I got wrong, my instructor thought should have been right, which (bearing in mind his many years of experience as an airline captain, followed by some 15 years as an instructor/examiner) really calls the CAA questions and marking scheme into question.

Imagine my joy when he told me I'd passed the exam AND we could go flying!

So, 1 hour 10 of circuits and I think I'm getting there. Good approaches, still a bit rough on the rudder when landing, but then it was quite bumpy and windy.

I can see Lee's point about nav experience in the air, but my instructor suggested that I do nav next. Anyone any suggestions for how best to study this?

HH

c-bert

12th Nov 2004, 14:19

Hi Paul.
Well done on getting some flying in. Its been about 7 weeks for me....:(

Congrats on the Met as well. To be honest the Nav is far easier once you have done one or two lessons on it. That said, my school 'recommended' you do the exam before starting the practical.
My advice would be to study the whole syllabus before you start the flying, but leave the exam until later.

Back to the met I had a marginal question as well. It wasn't about ocluded fronts was it?

adwjenk

12th Nov 2004, 15:14

Hey Captainkarl

best way to land flapless.

Dont know how uve been taught to land but use the box method which always works for me on anytype of landing u just have to get used to the diffrent nose attitudes.
IE flapless is a flater approch and glide is a stepper approch.
But just listen to ur instructor it will come with time.
The box method is where u draw a box on the windshield ( Imaginary) and keep the touch down point in tht box at all times. Use throttle to control speed and pitch to control rate of decent. Simple some pepole use different methods all depends on which works for u.
Another method which is manly used for instrument flying is where speed is controled by nose attitude and rate of descent by using the throttle both work but the box method is better.

adwjenk

Human Factor

12th Nov 2004, 16:13

The box method is where u draw a box on the windshield ( Imaginary) and keep the touch down point in tht box at all times. Use throttle to control speed and pitch to control rate of decent.

Depends on the power of your aeroplane. If it's something like a 152, there is a possibility that it won't have sufficient thrust to overcome the drag, although as you're flapless, there's obviously less of this. Doesn't work particularly well with flaps down though. This technique is more often used in the big jets and more powerful props.

adwjenk

12th Nov 2004, 16:43

I find it works really well in the PA38 ive never had a problem landing using that method.
Yet i find it works espically well in the PA34- Seneca due to as u say the extra power to over come the drag.
Yet it works with flaps down in the Tommy never flown the cessna 152 before so cant comment.

So what method would you use or what method where u taught to land. Normal landings not glide or flapless?
Im very intressted to hear other pepoles techniques and opinions.
Cheers

ADWJENK

Vee One...Rotate

12th Nov 2004, 18:10

What a day!

Weather looked dodgy until my lesson time approached and it cleared up a treat :O

Today was a follow-up lesson on stall/spin awareness and recovery. Ended up letting 3 full spins develop and recovered from each - bloody fantastic stuff :ok: Makes it that much harder to concentrate on what you should be doing when you're diving toward the ground and being pushed down in your seat! As if the whole houses-getting-bigger thing wasn't enough!

Had a 40 kt (gusting 55) headwind on approach - on a C152 witha 60-65 kt approach, we basically ended up doing a good impression of a helicopter :p

Been told we're going to start some circuit work next week...only 5 hours in so still a loooooong way to go...

V1R

P.S. Experiencing a fully-developed spin isn't a REQUIREMENT of the syllabus anymore but I'd highly recommend doing it if you've not had the pleasure yet - I feel a lot more confident in general handling, knowing that a spin is about the worst (handling-wise) situation you can get into...it's good fun as well :)

Gertrude the Wombat

12th Nov 2004, 19:45

ended up doing a good impression of a helicopter It's not difficult to fly a C152 backwards; I wouldn't do it on the approach though. (Tried it the other day in a C172, but either I was out of practice or the aircraft just wouldn't do it or it wasn't windy enough or something.)

kookabat

12th Nov 2004, 21:53

Use throttle to control speed and pitch to control rate of decent.
?I've always done it the other way around... pitch for speed and throttle for rate of descent...?

ended up doing a good impression of a helicopter

Oh! Me! Pick Me! I've done that too!!!;) Takeoffs in that sort of wind are fun too..:}

My flying? There's a front coming up the coast today, my one day off work/uni this week... guess who's not flying today either!!:{
Now I'm REALLY suffering withdrawals... Think Mazzy said it earlier, "get used to the wx or move to another country"... methinks I'm in the country that's supposed to have close to the best weather for flying. This may be so, but never where I am, if there's an aeroplane involved!! :D :rolleyes: :confused:

Ahh well, you guys keep me interested... at least SOMEONE's doing something!

Cheers,
Adam

Blinkz

12th Nov 2004, 23:33

I didn't fly today, again because of the wind. Careful instructors lol. Hopefully tomorrow!

c-bert

15th Nov 2004, 08:10

:ok: :ok: :ok: I've finally got my QXC out of the way!!!

The weather on Sat was gorgeous and after a few circuits with the CFI ( I hadn't flown for 2 months :uhoh: ) I was off to Bristol. Arrived there with no issues, then off to Exeter. Had trouble leaving Exeter as the during the engine power checks the righthand magnito was failing - cue 5 minutes taxiing back to the parking wondering how the hell I was going to get home. Thankfully I managed to clear it in the engine run up area and after much checking and re-check I was back on my way to Southampton.

All in all a great day but not one I would rush to repeat in the near future! :ok:

Whirlybird

15th Nov 2004, 08:18

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use throttle to control speed and pitch to control rate of decent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

?I've always done it the other way around... pitch for speed and throttle for rate of descent...?

I haven't time to read the whole thread, but I assume you're talking about on final. If so, you'll find out in due course that this is a hotly debated topic among pilots and instructors. I'd say use whichever way round you're being taught, and worry about whether it's best later on. And you may find later on, like many of us, that you're not sure what you use for what; you just point at the runway and land the plane, somehow. :confused:

kookabat

15th Nov 2004, 11:19

Whirlybird -
Yeah that... you're right about the 'point it at the runway' bit!!!

mazzy1026

15th Nov 2004, 12:03

I rang up today to confirm the flight, and was told that my instructor has left the flying school. I was well gutted because not only was he a great instructor, but he was a great laugh and we got on well. I wont go into the reasons why he left as they were personal, but I wish him the best of luck. He got me to my first solo phase and then departed, and I am lucky in a way because I may have had to wait longer to solo if he left earlier.

Anyway, onwards and upwards I must go.

My new instructor, I think is relatively new to the school. He is a top bloke and a very good instructor. I have spoken to him a few times before and always known him as a nice person. He is a full time instructor and works days that suit me quite well actually.

There was a BA aircraft doing circuits for most of the day at Liverpool and there was no chance of anyone else getting circuits done. We were originally contemplating going to Hawarden to do some solo there, but the thing is, if you land, they charge a handling fee, as well as the landing fee's so we decided against it as I would hopefully get the chance to do them on Sunday.

I gave a brief as to what I had done previously and to how it was going, and it was decided that we do some advanced/steep turns. He asked me whether I would like to go North or South out of the zone, and as I live to the North, and have done 90% of the flying there, I chose it. Having thought about it though, now that I am building the big picture of the area and getting to know it (the North) I may suggest that we do a few lessons to the South, so that I have the confidence to fly there on my own as well.

Steep turns are good fun, and I think so far, they require the most practice over anything else (maybe apart from landings). We started with a few 45 degree turns, to the left and the right - these weren't too difficult. However, then we got onto the 60 degree turns. The hardest thing about these was not entereing a spiral descent. Keepig the nose high enough when turning requires a hell of a lot of back pressure. The biggest problem I cam accross was getting used to the different nose attitudes (or perceived attitudes) due to offset seating. When turning to the left, the nose looks very high, and when turning to the right, it looks very low.

When going through one of the turns, there was quite a significant shudder. This is a good sign, as it indicates that you are flying through your own vortexes, and indicates that you have not climbed or descended. Felt these a few times and it did put a smile on ones face :cool:

I like his style of teaching, he basically 'left me to it'. I would be practising away doing all kinds of turns, whilst he would get the ATIS. He trusts me a lot and gives me good responsibility - which I am pleased about.

I want to refer back to a few things I have mentioned about the checklist, and how I sometimes miss things out. Today I did it again, and missed the pre-takeoff checks. Stupid I know, but according to my instructor, a great number of students, who use the AFE checklists, do exactley the same. It is the layout of the checks that can cause confusion, as they do not follow in a logical order, for example 'starting the engine when flooded' is thrown in the middle. I am not blaming them at all, it is entirely my own mistake to miss such an important check, but I have been advised to consider buying a different checklist and bin the one I have already got. Has anyone else come accross this problem?

I am 110% happy with my new situation, and I reckon that because I will be taught in the end by two different people, then I may learn two different approaches to flying, and different styles etc. Good to see that a few people have managed to get flying also by making the most of Saturday's wx. Well done on the QXC also - keep up the good work!

All the best,

Lee :)

Blinkz

15th Nov 2004, 12:21

Sorry to hear that mazzy :( altho hopefully your new guy is just as good.

Steep turns sound fun, I'm still workin on doing more solo consolidation, did 20mins on saturday, was very bumpy and the instructor wanted to make sure I was ok (I was :cool: )

Weather looks crap for the next couple of days:{ back to meteorology!!!

Oh and I always thought that if you felt your own wake in turns it meant that you had descended, since your wake obvoiusly descends......anyone know which is correct :confused:

mazzy1026

15th Nov 2004, 12:26

Cheers Blinkz - I think your quite right about the descending wake's. Perhaps some wishful thinking from me :{

Blinkz

15th Nov 2004, 12:37

Sorry for bursting your bubble maz :suspect: :E :ok:

rustle

15th Nov 2004, 21:03

Your wake vortices do descend, at about 300 to 500 feet per minute.

However, unless you're travelling at blackbird speeds you should be re-entering your wake within about 2 minutes (rate one), and much sooner if you're doing steep turns -- so meeting your own wake is still a "good thing" at high turn rates :)

kookabat

15th Nov 2004, 23:16

For what it's worth, I looked back through the logbook one day and counted no less than NINE instructors in my first 35 hours!! :} Admittedly those hours were spread out over about a year though.

mazzy1026

16th Nov 2004, 08:33

Rustle

I was thinking that after I had made the post. I have learned about wake vortices in a couple of the modules, but most of them talk about high speed ones, like those created by heavy airliners etc. So the ones created by a Tomahawk would obviously descend much much slower, therefore, like you say, it is still a good thing (i'll leave it at that :E )

Kook

How did you find having so many different instructors? Personally, so long as this new one doesnt leave. then I will complete the PPL only having 2 intstructors.

Regards

Lee :8

Hampshire Hog

16th Nov 2004, 09:39

c-bert,

Congratulations on the QXC! Sounds like fun at Exeter. I had a similar experience one day at Wycombe - very rough running on one mag. Seems like a common problem on the Warrior and my instructor burned off the clag by increasing the revs and leaning the mixture.

Yes, my marginal MET question was on occluded fronts!

Lovely weather over the weekend. I'd hoped to get solo yesterday, but I had about the second worst lesson I've ever had. I made a complete b*lls up of my first take-off. So bad, my instructor made me do a full stop landing after a couple of circuits and try again (I applied too much back-pressure, too early, and then let the thing drift off to the left side of the runway!). Things didn't get much better. My next take-off was ok, but I couldn't get my landings right at all. All over the place with the rudders again and kept getting too low on approach.

Never mind, try again next time!

Mazzy, best of luck with the new instructor.

Paul

kookabat

16th Nov 2004, 10:54

Mazzy...
It was good in that I was exposed to a lot of different styles of flying - sort of picked up different things from each one... but then it wasn't so good in that at that level I had not yet (and still haven't:hmm: ) figured out my own style. So as soon as I got used to one instructor I went flying with another... and they usually had other 'pet hates' or whatever. That many instructors spread out over many more hours wouldn't be an issue, but at that stage in my flying it probably wasn't the best thing.
Having said that, I've done all my navs so far with the one instructor, so it's all good now...

Adam

c-bert

16th Nov 2004, 11:29

Kookabat:

I think I've used just about every instructor at the school at some stage! I agree that is is useful in learning different things but again, you lose continuity which is a pain.

Hampshire Hog:

Thanks! I'm glad it's over.
It sounds like you need to relax a little on takeoff. Still, practice, practice, practice as they say. :\
I think we must have had the same MET paper. It had the symbols of a Quasi stationary front but the weather patterns of an occuled or something like that. Most unfair I thought.
I now have the comparative joy of building 3.5 hours solo time "Any way I wish. Plan a route and fly it".... so I've got to try and come up with something interesting to do.
Any ideas anyone? Southampton to where? Preferably not land away as I'm trying to make it as cheap as possible.

Good luck all

Mark
:ok:

Hampshire Hog

16th Nov 2004, 11:41

Mark,

I can't really suggest where you might want to go to build that solo time, but there have been a regular series of free landing vouchers in mags such as Pilot and Todays Pilot. Why not use one of them?

My occluded front question was a bit different. It concerned the types of weather you could expect to experience when flying towards and through it. The answer my instructor (and I) went for was pretty much anything and everything, but the CAA had a far more subtle correct reply!

Paul

Whirlybird

16th Nov 2004, 13:32

I now have the comparative joy of building 3.5 hours solo time "Any way I wish. Plan a route and fly it".... so I've got to try and come up with something interesting to do.
Any ideas anyone? Southampton to where? Preferably not land away as I'm trying to make it as cheap as possible.

Not sure where you've already been, but if it were me, I'd fly all the way down the coast to Lands End, which has a free landing voucher for November in Flyer. Come back by a different route - North coast, or inland. In good weather the views should be great. Haven't measured it, but should be about right timewise.

Been there already? How about exploring Wales, if you can get the weather.

I don't know about "comparative joy", 3.5 hours flying sounds pretty wonderful to me. :ok:

Sunfish

17th Nov 2004, 07:16

Been out today for a lovely navex. Flew to Mansfield and landed on the Oakbank grass strip. Beth and I had lunch and talked with Mick and Phyllis and the timid sheepdog.

Then off towards Shepparton , Bendigo and Kyneton at 6500 feet.

Charged off through controlled airspace and back to Moorabbin.

Good time had by all.

Next one is the four hour solo nav.

mazzy1026

17th Nov 2004, 09:07

All these nav ex's sound fantastic, a splendour compared to the circuit! :=

Blinkz

17th Nov 2004, 09:58

Don't worry maz, our time will come :E

FingersR

17th Nov 2004, 14:30

watch out world! :D

mazzy1026

18th Nov 2004, 12:08

Yer look out for me doing stalls and steep turns/spirals at 300ft, coming soon to "a village near you"! :E

Hampshire Hog

18th Nov 2004, 14:34

Sounds like my last takeoff:E

HH

Blinkz

18th Nov 2004, 16:35

Hey guys,
Just back from flying now. Did 1hr 25mins solo today, 13 circuits :D Was great fun hehe. To top it off I sat my met paper when I got back and got 90% :ok:

Steep turns and PFLs here I come :E

mazzy1026

18th Nov 2004, 19:39

Nice one Blinkz - I envy you having had some time to yourself in the air! Well done on the MET exam, keep up the good work!

Happyeater

18th Nov 2004, 20:08

I must get some serious studying done too now. I'd hate to get slowed down cos I haven't had the exams sorted out.

All these solo's and navigation trips make me want to hurry up and experience it myself.

Hampshire Hog

19th Nov 2004, 14:30

Excellent lesson today. Still not gone solo:{ But, much better t/o and landings + a couple of self-selected go-arounds. Nice weather too!

Instructor much happier. Hopefully solo next time!

HH

Milt

20th Nov 2004, 02:13

Mazzy 1026 and others about to solo ponder the conditions only 90 years ago.
Earlier posts have described Del's first flight which was also his solo and then his flight test for his Brevet/Licence. Page 20.
Now here is Del's first flight in the first successful aircraft to be constructed in Australia.

Wednesday 18th July 1914, another momentous day in Delfosse Badgery's life. It should also have been recorded as one of the most significant days in Australian aviation achievements in that new science. The event was not widely publicised.

Most of the blame for this event passing almost unnoticed must be born by Del. He did not seek acclaim or publicity of his achievements, his entire concern then was the worry of his dwindling finances and how he could eke out enough money to keep his aims on course now that he had committed himself 100% to a career in this infantile phenomenon - aviation.

The morning frosts and mists over the Sutton Forest fields gradually disappeared as the sun rose higher in a bright cerulean sky. The Yabsley brothers, blacksmiths who had assisted with the construction, arrived with a local photographer from Moss Vale, to find Del and Sam completing their final checks of the Caudron. Once again they looked over each of the rigging wires and turnbuckles. Again they surveyed the appearance of the wings, longerons and tailplane setting. They had none of the modern devices to check rigging angles with complete accuracy - a quarter of a degree of dissimilarity in the attachment of wings, one to the other or the most imperceptible twist in a wing could cause large forces of an out-of-trim condition once in the air. Again, they could not check the weight and balance, they did not know with accuracy where the centre of gravity was located. They had balanced the aeroplane on a beam under the lower longeron and that gave a rough indication that all was well - but they could not be absolutely sure! The wings would flex and change their angles to the airflow as each piece of wood accepted its first flight load, so the forces could vary along each wing, particularly at the 'trailing edge' where the thin ribs maintained the contour of the wing. Only the first test flight could tell them how successful their efforts had been to produce another successful Caudron.

The main problem was the initial setting of the tailplane angle, for on this depended the amount of down force that the tail would produce to balance the other forces of the aeroplane - the lift of the wings opposing the total weight, the thrust of the propeller acting against the immense drag of all those struts, wires and wings, not to mention the nacelle with Del, the pilot, sitting with half his body stuck out in the oil spattered slipstream.

The paddock they were going to use was relatively flat and about half a mile long, roughly the same length as Hendon. They had walked over it many times, mattock in hand, knocking down the largest grass hillocks, and filling in the holes and dips, so that now it was acceptably smooth and firm. Windsocks had not yet been 'invented'.

During their talk together on the previous evening Del had agreed not to try to make a full circuit flight at the first attempt; just a gentle lift-off the ground to cheek the balance and then to come to a stop for a talk about how it felt no matter how perfect the controls seemed when in the air for this first brief occasion. It was to be a 'straight' as his old friend Frank Goodden at Hendon would have called it.

Del, Sam, the Yabsleys and a couple of other eager helpers pushed the Caudron out from the 'hangar' as Rebecca, Ethel, the two children and several locals who had somehow 'got the word' by bush telegraph stood around watching. The air was quite tense with excitement, here was the culmination of three and a half months of hectic work, a quite incredible achievement when looked at, even to-day. Almost unaided and without any form of power tools, the two of them had made a complete aeroplane. The quality of their handwork was evidenced later by the time it existed as Australia's first truly successful aeroplane. For, in retrospect, that is what the Caudron was. It wasn't the first aeroplane to be made in Australia, there had been Duigan and Marshall, who had built and left the ground for a few brief seconds or minutes in their creations and then they had crashed to finally give up their efforts. There had been Houdini, Hart, Hawker and now Guillaux who had flown successfully - but they were all in aeroplanes made in either England or France and imported for the occasion, and some had also crashed.

But this aeroplane was different. It was "Made in Australia". True, it was of French design and built mainly with foreign materials and parts, but never-the-less it was to prove to be the first really successful aeroplane to set the scene for the 'Australian made' aircraft, and Delfosse was the sole pilot to control and guide it through many, many successful hours of flight.

Del and Sam posed beside their creation for the photographer. Sam remarked "Best photograph it now, it might not be in one piece for much longer". Meant as the joke it was, for they both had complete faith in their creation and in Del's ability to safely return it unscathed, the tensions were such that Ethel burst into tears of apprehension and, together with the children, retreated to the sanctuary of the house, which event Mary, one of the children, vividly remembered in the 1990s.

An apprehensive Del stubbed out his last cigarette, then donning his leather flying jacket, gloves, helmet and goggles he climbed into the cockpit. Soon the Anzani engine was rumbling away as Del let it warm up at a fast idle. Then with the enthusiastic help of the bystanders hanging on to the longerons to restrain it, he ran the engine up to full throttle for a final check. She ran quite smoothly, emitting its usual haze of blue smoke. A quick smile and wave to his friends and a 'she's right' thumbs up to Sam, Del started to taxi out over the grass and cattle tracks near the paddock's corner dam. Lining up down the field, he once more tested the joy stick and rudder bar over their full range of movement, then slowly opened the throttle. The Caudron gathered speed and finally, with Del using considerable forward force on the joy stick, the tail came up as the aeroplane sped over the bumpy ground. A check of the wing warping, Del felt the wings respond correctly, and then it was time to close the throttle as he neared the far boundary fence. Del now knew that the tail plane setting was not correct, he had had to push the stick forward harder than normal to raise the tail. He decided to still fly his 'straight' back to the anxiously waiting group in the far distance, to check just how much the setting needed readjustment. Opening the throttle firmly and quickly, he soon had flying speed and relaxing the stick pressure, the Caudron left the ground for the first time into its natural element. Del eased the throttle down as he flew along 3 or 4 feet above the ground. A quick waggle of the wings confirmed the feel of the stick - she flew a bit left wing low, and Del closed the throttle to land safely.

As he switched off back in front of Newbury hangar, joyous shouts and whoops proclaimed the end of Del's first flight if it could be so called. The onlookers were disappointed. They had expected to see the Caudron soar away into the clear blue sky but to Del and Sam it was a moment of triumphant success. They now knew they had backed a winner, only a couple of minor adjustments were needed.

Del described the amount of force he had to apply to the controls. Sam now knew almost precisely the amount of adjustments to be effected, he had made dozens of such trim changes to Ewan's aeroplanes. The front spar of the tailplane was moved up about one inch on its curved adjustment plate and re-locked in position as Sam marked it with a scriber for future reference. He would make a final setting later to enable the aeroplane to fly 'hands off' in stable flight at normal cruising engine revs and speed. As there were no trimming controls available to Del in the cockpit, in all other regimes of flight he would have to hold a slight pressure on the stick at all times to make the Caudron climb or descend.

The adjustment to wings was a different problem: the wing warping cables had to be re-tensioned in order to correct the tendency to roll to the left. This procedure took about an hour of discussion and fiddling. Meantime one of the locals had been watching from an overlooking hillside on the nearby property of Judge Owen. From his viewpoint looking down on the paddock, it seemed to him that the aeroplane had not left the ground. Had he been more observant, he would have noticed the aeroplane and its shadow on the ground part company, but as this was the first flying machine he had ever seen or heard he really was not entitled to rush in to Moss Vale and spread the word that "the Badgery aeroplane did not leave the ground. I told you so, it's just one big furphy; that thing will never fly". But Del and Sam knew better; in fact it was most successful.

The trim adjustments complete, Del got back into the cockpit, started up and the flew another 'straight' to the far end of the paddock. Satisfied this time that the controls now felt satisfactory, he opened up to full throttle for his first real take-off. The Caudron quickly leapt into the air and passed over Sam, Bill and the others at about one hundred feet up, but as he waved over the cockpit side, Del could not hear the shouts of joy and encouragement from the excited little group. As he made his first turn for his circuit of the paddock, he felt the engine lose a little power as one spark plug cut out. The engine started to vibrate, and that worsened as a second plug gave up the ghost about two minutes later as he flew downwind in the opposite direction to that of his take-off. Del knew he had real problems now, the engine power was failing and he started to slowly lose height. He thought of making a forced landing in one of Marshall's paddocks close by, but the sight of dozens of ring-barked dead trees and stumps assured disaster if he pursued that idea, so he pressed on, hoping frantically that the engine would continue to give him enough life and power to regain Newbury.

Del's only instinctive thought now was that somehow he had to get himself and the Caudron back on the ground undamaged. He knew only too well how much his and Sam's future depended on this machine. He had to succeed, somehow. The Caudron just hung in the air as it passed over Sir Norman Kater's house roof at bare chimney height but as Del cleared the final ridge he then knew he could volplane in successfully for his landing. He did that safely and with an immense feeling of relief he taxied in towards the waiting group, the engine barely running with an irregular beat.

Thus ended the first real flight of his aeroplane and what was the longest six or seven minutes Del could ever remember. As soon as the initial congratulations and back slapping were over, he and Sam got down to looking for the cause of their near disaster. The faulty plugs were instantly located by Sam by consequence of long experience - he put his hand on the two lower cylinder heads - they were stone cold. Unscrewing the plugs his suspicions were confirmed, both were covered in unburnt oil and 'gunk' from the cylinder walls. It was exactly this trouble that within a few years caused aero-engine designers to duplicate the entire ignition system and have two spark plugs in each cylinder so that, apart from extraordinary circumstances of both plugs becoming defective together, power would always be produced by each cylinder, barring a mechanical failure of a major component.

Subsequent flights to many parts of Australia considerably enhanced Del's experience and permitted many Ausies to see their first aircraft.

mazzy1026

20th Nov 2004, 09:12

Great story Milt, I was feeling the tension when you started to describe the failing spark plug.

Del had agreed not to try to make a full circuit flight at the first attempt;
I dont blame him! A good idea IMHO.

Hampshire Hog - I know the feeling mate, a little gutted at times waiting for your first solo but hang on in there, it WILL come!

A few days ago, a couple of the poster's here gave me their MSN Messenger addresses, and we have had a good old natter. So if anyone else would like to do the same, and is currently using Messenger, then feel free to PM me with their details!

Cheers,

Lee ;)

Sunfish

22nd Nov 2004, 19:29

Wish me luck. Today I'm off on the final solo Navex before the ppl exam and flight test. I get to fly myself to Hamilton, land, refuel and back. Thats about four hours worth.

Woke up at 3 am thinking about it. Pure nerves even though I know what I'm supposed to be doing and have put it all together before with an instructor.

Flying an Archer this time, 180hp instead of 160 and about 15 knots faster.

kookabat

22nd Nov 2004, 22:49

I'm reeeeeeeealy jealous now Sunfish! Still haven't done that second Canberra nav, haven't flown for more than a month... really suffering withdrawals here:{
But yes, have a good flight... good luck... and all that. Enjoy it!!

Adam

mazzy1026

23rd Nov 2004, 16:33

Cant believe how lucky I was today with the weather. It has been so grotty and wet all day, even driving to the airport it was horrible, but we were expecting a gap in the weather any time, so onwards. Got there and it was a bit quieter (people wise) due to it being a weekday. We went up into the circuit and done 2, just to get checked out. Then we went back and he got out (grin time again). Great. This is my second solo and was very much looking forward to it.

The two landings I made however, before he left me to it, were floaters. I kept either coming slightly too fast, or flaring too early. I was told I made a good recovery though, by pitching the nose down quickly to regain, then let it touchdown. On the second base, I realised that I wasn’t holding the nose up long enough to let the aircraft slow down. I was putting the flaps in and letting the nose lower, and taking too much power off, so this is the first stage of a bad approach. I realised this and made the necessary adjustments the next time round, by establishing 70 knots before lowering the nose. When I come across a mistake, I like to describe it to my instructor so he knows when I am making corrections.

So he got out and away I went. It’s amazing how well this aircraft climbs due to the reduced weight. The circuit went fine and I made a good landing. It’s funny but all my solo landings so far have been great, I put it down to the higher level of concentration required, and perhaps to not being ‘watched’ (at least from the cockpit anyway!)

Ok so now here is where the fun starts and the old adrenalin starts flowing. Just as I was rolling out of base onto final, a Cessna Citation came on:

“Established on 6 mile final, runway 27 ILS”
“we have a Tomahawk on final, we will make it go around”

Buggar. Wasn’t expecting that. Ok so I waited a few seconds, then came the call for me to go around. This is where I made mistake number one. Because I was quite a while off touchdown, I waited. Don’t ask me why, I just had this mental image of ‘only going around just before touchdown’ – a misconceived unconscious thought perhaps. Anyhow, tower came back:

“perform go around immediately”

Ok, I let the flaps go – with an almighty whoosh as the flap lever shot my arm forward. Mental not number one noted “release flaps gently, in 2 smooth stages, as not to adjust attitude too quickly”.

Full power, and back into the climb with a left hand turn to get back to a thousand feet, adjacent to the runway. Mental note number two “TURN CARB HEAT OFF”. I left it on didn’t I. I realised just before the end of the climb, and quickly turned it off. It wasn’t too bad though, the aircraft sill climbed well (again, reduced weight). The Citation decided to change his/her/it’s mind and perform a go around itself, so the ATCO told it to go right instead of left. Mental note number three (which was realised on the ground, “when your told to go around, DO IT THEN” (if practically possible and safe of course (standard disclaimer – P1 is in control)).

Sent it round no problem and it was actually quite a good view of the airfield (saved me £7.90 too :E)! Ok so in the next one, I was told to report ready for base. No problem. When I got there, I was told:

“remain south of the lighthouse” (the lighthouse is a standard point to turn onto base).

So two things were in my head, one, extend downind, which wasn’t practical as it would take me over a load of chemical factories and steam/smoke etc, or two, an orbit. After about 15 seconds of pondering I put her in a right hand orbit, then told tower what I was doing. They had no problem with that, as an orbit is what they probably meant in the first place.

The next circuit and landing were fine, and I happily rolled back to kilo with the knowledge I had performed reasonably well and gained some truly valuable experience. Next time I have to do any of the above again, I will know what to expect and hopefully will not make the same mistakes as I did today. Again, grin from ear to ear, I really do love this flying lark. Total solo time now is 60 mins. Only another 120, then I am let off the leash! Fantastic day today.

DiscoChocolate – did you manage to get flying today?
Sunfish – good luck mate – I wish you all the best.

It’s worth another thank you to everyone posting in here. I am amazed at how well it’s going and appreciate your input and advice. Keep it up.

Best regards

Lee :ok:

Blinkz

23rd Nov 2004, 16:49

Congrats on a good flight, and don't worry about little mistakes. Like you say, they all add to the experience! (as long as you learn from then :E )

I know what you mean about the tommy climbing like a rocket. With my instructor in I'm lucky if I get to circuit height by the end of the crosswind leg, solo I'm at it by the end of the climbout :D

I occasionally forget to turn off the carb heat, since I sometimes forget the CRAP checks, usually when the approach has been alittle more complex then usual (one of the runways that I use has a valley just before the threshold, which means that you've gotta have a curved final leg, but also it can kick up some nasty eddies/sink.

Glad you had a good flight, hopefully I'll get up tomorrow! supposed to be my first navex :cool:

Confabulous

23rd Nov 2004, 19:50

Guys,

Good morning/afternoon/evening/night (select according to timezone and hangover status.)

I've decided to go for ze PPL - went for Class 2 on Friday and... well, I was bundled out of the surgery with the doctor shouting: 'And don't come back for 5 years!'

Me: "I won't!"

Doc: "Promise?"

Well after the shock of the probing wore off I wondered what I could do with the medical.

a. I could ignore it and save up for my granny's complicated eye operation.

b. I could FLY!!!!!

Naturally I chose wisely.

Option b of course. I'll buy the granny a glass eye... ok, a marble.

Anyway, some of you might have seen my thread on Stick & Rudder (now deleted - the tidal wave of opinion clinched it (cheers tKf & Sunfish et al) 'tis a good book).

So I'm going to start as soon as my granny's inheritance comes through. Or maybe I'll pay my own way.

(Just checked the will - she left me the marble. Touching.)

But before I start in summer (April to you and me), I'd just like to thank you guys for continuing this thread - I've never gotten so much useful information from any other forum. And long may it last. This is truely PPRuNe at it's best.

Cheers,
Conf

adwjenk

23rd Nov 2004, 21:49

Hey

Well done Lee on ur secound solo flight!!
Yeah i know the feeling in the circuit did a sortie where in 1 hour i did 2 touch and gos got so sick of orbiting i just requested a full stop on the next landing.
Been signed of again after not flying for 4 weeks so im up up and away on my own on Saturday whether depending :ok:
Could have gone last Saturday yet i had to get back to work.
Congratulations to everyone whos completed there first solo or qualifying cross country whilst this post has been up.
And to those who have just embarked on the joys of aviation i hope ur bank account can stretch lol just kidding

Enjoy ur flying guys and tresure every Minute

ADWJENK

mazzy1026

24th Nov 2004, 11:07

Confab - what a nice comment - cheers for that, glad you like it :)

Blinkz - sorry about the old MSN thingy, I will be online soon I promise :p

ADW: Saturday aint usually my day at the school, but I will book one soon for that day so we can meet up for a beer (after flying of course) ;)

Lovin it,

Lee :ok:

Blinkz

24th Nov 2004, 16:44

Had another lesson today. Weather was.....interesting lol. quite rought below 2'500 but smooth above that. The plan was for a navex but the weather around edinburgh wasn't really good enough so we decided to do my first IR lesson :E

It was such hard work! lol. With the hood on you gotta concentrate so hard on keeping your scan going and making all the little corrections to keep the heading/alt correct. Its a great feeling when you get it all sorted tho. I flew back into the zone under the hood all the way to 3 mile final. Off came the hood and there was 24 in front for a nice landing :ok:

Really enjoyed it, am looking forward to doin it more. However I really want to start my nav so fingures crossed for tomorrow.

DiscoChocolate

25th Nov 2004, 12:18

Mazzy- Sadly I didn't manage to go flying on Tuesday, life is being dictated by work at the moment :( cant whinge too much tho as it pays for the flying.
I'm hoping that I can get booked in on Sunday and finally get my QXC done. Fingers crossed.
Well done on your second solo flight !sounds like you learnt a lot from it and got some challenging moments in there too, doing a practice go-around with an instructor requires a lot of thought, but doing it on your second solo must have got the ol' brain working! Well Done!

Blinkz - aren't the IR lessons fanatastic? Isn't it the best feeling when the hood comes off on final and there is the runway, exactly where it should be? I dont think i'll ever forget that experience it is possibly the best (dual) flying I've done, so far...

c-bert

29th Nov 2004, 10:40

I had an excellent flight on Sunday. Managed to go early in the morning whilst the wx was still good.
Went for a solo 'bimble' round the Isle of Wight (where I used to live). There is nothing quite so satisfying as give a rude hand gesture to your old school from 2000ft! :mad: :D

1 hour down, 2.5 left and I can take the skills test :eek:

Hampshire Hog

29th Nov 2004, 10:52

Hi Mark,

Around the Isle of Wight, now I haven't flown down there for ages - how I love the view of the circuit at Wycombe, compared to the Solent and the Island on a nice crisp winter day!

I'll buy you a pint when you pass that skills test!

Paul

mazzy1026

29th Nov 2004, 11:32

I'll buy you a pint when you pass that skills test! (ahem) CHEERS :E :E :E

So annoyed - of all the nice wx we have had over the last day or 2, tomorrow is going ot be nice but I am betting that it will be too windy :sad:

Dam Air :suspect:

Blinkz

29th Nov 2004, 13:26

Aye the weather sucks.

I had my first navex yesturday, which was brill. Went down to the borders and back to edinburgh. Went on another navex today up north but there was low cloud in the valley east of dunblane :{ so had to turn back and return to edinburgh. oh well.

Damn air :E

c-bert

29th Nov 2004, 14:22

Aww the air isn't that bad. It's the sun you have to blame. And not the popular tabloid either, heating up places at different rates - damned inconsiderate if you ask me.

Thanks Paul, I might just take you up on that. Got the landings/take-offs sorted yet?

Milt

29th Nov 2004, 22:01

Hey Mazzy 1026

Remember the weather is all part of the medium in which you fly. It will always be there for you to comprehend and cause you to make decisions.

Think of the weather as you would the priciples of flight. There are heaps of fascinating things to learn about weather. Try to do your own forecasting from the weather patterns and embrace it with all the other challenges you are enjoying.

Where are the areas of the world's coldest upper air temperatures ? - for instance.

What causes air to go rushing up in a cumulus cloud? So many things of interest up there for you to get to know about.

How does ectoplasm form?

Sunfish

30th Nov 2004, 00:07

Good to hear about everyone's progress. Mazzy, after a while it gets easier to deal with ATC and the odd instruction. I wonder when you did your go around did you apply full power before touching the flaps or vice versa?

Did the Navex satisfactorily. I've also passed the PPL theory exam.

Today a short revision session, then on Thursday a "pre test" flight to see if its worth letting me near an examiner. If so, then three to four hours of air work preceded by a few hours ground work, to see if I am a danger to the community or not if I'm let loose.

The biggest concern I have at the moment is how much I DON'T know about aviation.

1pudding1

30th Nov 2004, 07:44

Finally did my QXC yesterday! :D Glocester-Swansea-Wellesborne-Glos. Viz was so bad coming south-west from Wellesborne to Glocester at 3pm, sun low and right in my face, illuminating everything in front of me so I could harldy see the ground through the haze, apart from laterally and behind me! Luckily was only an easy 20min leg so managed to just about find the airfield again. Great feeling getting this done after 7/8 cancellations over the past month due to poor wx.

kookabat

30th Nov 2004, 07:49

...aeroplane booked for tomorrow morning... hopefully we'll beat the forecast front back to the airfield... reckon I have much chance??

And Sunfish - The biggest concern I have at the moment is how much I DON'T know about aviation.
-me too... you never stop learning...

Adam

Hampshire Hog

30th Nov 2004, 11:40

C-bert

Yep. Much better lesson last time. I sat at the end of the Runway and remembered what you said about relaxing more during the take-off. Worked a treat.

My instructor suggested a steeper approach to landing which also helped a lot - so, booked on Thursday. Who knows what the weather's going to do. My instructor said he just wanted to see me do a couple more landings before he gets out. Here's hoping - so long as I don't regress again!

Paul

c-bert

30th Nov 2004, 12:10

Paul - Glad to hear it. I'm sure it won't be long now.

1Pudding1 - Congrats mate. It's a pain the proverbial trying to get the QXC done at this time of year isn't it? Still, not much left to do now.

The CFI has suggested I visit Thruxton for my next trip. Shame I can't go and see the touring cars while I'm there!

Cheers all!

Mark

steve181

1st Dec 2004, 07:51

Sunfish good luck with your upcoming PPL flight test, and to everyone else with solos etc etc. I passed my C.P.L flight test last week, and a month before that my MEIR flight test. I was relaxed about my cpl flight test, because now i'm used to the testing environment, but when i sat my PPL i was a complete and utter mess, i couldent physically hold my food down so i had to sit the test without lunch. But once the test was underway all my nerves went away, and i focused on the job in hand.

Just after takeoff in my MEIR flight test, due to the high workload at this time and the impending simulated engine failure i failed to notice the aircraft was cronically out of balance, and the examiner literally yelled at me to sort it out. Instead of going "oh i've failed", and fixating on my mistake i went 110% throughout the test, forgeting about the incident, and it turned out my test was almost faultless apart from that incident. So the moral is no matter what you do in the test go 110% throughout regardless, you've always past the test untill the examiner says otherwise!

mazzy1026

2nd Dec 2004, 09:39

Only an hour or so to go before I can join you lucky people doing your Nav! Glad to see you are all doing well and enjoying the flying. With regards to the weather, I do think that winter has brought along some beautiful flying conditions. The wind has dramatically reduced and there is more sunshine around. All that rain and wind from autumn didn’t half get on my t1ts – I am sure you will all agree!

Today was another borderline flying day, with regards to solo. One of the other instructors had said he was going to leave the zone and not let the student go solo, but we thought it would be worth doing one circuit just to see how I got on – so that we did. Today reminded me of my first solo day – the haze/fog was amazingly similar, in that you could make out the local features ok and see the airport, but there was no clear horizon to define. As well as the haze, we had a 9 knot crosswind, from the south, so today was certainly to be challenging. The idea of the crosswind increased the amount of adrenaline in the bloodstream but I was glad it was there, I wanted to defeat it (today), as to understand it a bit better and to move on. So on the first approach, I touched down ok, but was told that I could have perhaps used a little more right rudder (using crab technique). So next time around, on about 2 or 3 mile final, I put the rudder in first, as to use it all the way to touchdown, rather than after the flare. This was to demonstrate the use of the rudder in the crosswind and how it can be used all the way to keep the nose pointing down the centreline. This proved successful and I completed quite a good landing. So off we went one more time, I was being asked whether I felt ok about soloing and basically whether I would like to or not. It’s worth mentioning that the traffic was really busy when we departed, with quite a few aircraft waiting at the holding point etc. but by the time we had done 3 circuits, it had settled down a little.

So we went back to kilo and he jumped out. A little more (what’s the word? Nervous? Scared? Excited?) lets just say “adrenalin filled” than the last time, due to the traffic and the visibility, but off I went. First one went fine, nothing to report really, apart form the fact that I keep noticing things about the engine noise. Now I don’t know what it is, but I seem a lot more aware of what the engine is doing, I am probably imagining it, but as I am on my own, I am sure you can understand where I am coming from? If it makes a noise, or vibrates or anything, I start wondering? It is just my mind running away with me. Will I REALLY know if there is a problem with the engine? Are these noises just normal? It is probably the sun visor vibrating or something similar. Moving on.

I seemed to be too high on my approaches today, perhaps I am turning base to early, I will extend for a few seconds or so next time. On the final circuit, just after turning downwind, I was informed of a helicopter joining right base. I confirmed it and carried on as normal, then came the request to orbit. No problem, right hand orbit, remembering the wind velocity and adjusting the orbit as necessary as not to get too close to the runway. Then, a few easyjets later, I was told to continue on downind until told to turn base. So I did, carried on, and on and on. I went well past the industrial towers, just creeping past the Runcorn bridge, and I was wondering, “has he forgot?”. So I put the call in for late downwind, then he told me I could turn base/final. Ok so I was quite a way out by this time, and the runway was a fair way off. This was the first time that I would have to judge the approach and descent for myself, rather than do it as a matter of course at a fixed point (in the standard circuit). So I kept on going for a few seconds until I arrived just before the lighthouse, then began to bring her down. Again, I was a little too high, so put full flap in to get down easier. I remember approaching the runway and looking too ‘down’ on it if you know what I mean – I would have to judge the flare just right or I would end up either breaking the nose wheel, or floating for ages with a nice balloon! As it turns out, it was a nice landing. Very satisfying indeed to be able to correct my own mistakes and handle the circuit the way it was today. All good confidence building (I know, “don’t get too confident”!:8 ) and experience. Just cant wait to leave the zone!:E

Sunfish, I wish you the very best of luck with your test - remember me when your flying around the Liverpool zone :)

Safe flying,

Lee

Margo

2nd Dec 2004, 10:38

Nice one Lee!
Hope your Nav went ok? I've just got Met to go...
I can't wait to get back in the seat having not flown since my death defying cross country qualifier; I was definitely on a different continent to my comfort zone!
At a particularly gut renching 'I'M LOST!' moment my shopping skills came into play and Boundary Mills @ Grantham confirmed I was on track... Retail outlets are the way forward; it's a girl thing!
& thanks for this thread, it's great knowing I'm not the only one on this steep (but not stalling!) learning curve.
Lovin it,
Margot:ok:

mazzy1026

2nd Dec 2004, 10:41

Hi Margo! Welcome aboard! I havent done Nav yet - I understand it is the more difficult exam, I will do it after the Nav training as to be more au'fais on the subject :D I will read the syllabus though! ;)

Where do you fly from?

Lee :ok:

Margo

2nd Dec 2004, 15:23

Flying from Henlow, Beds - I just love flying from a grass airfield.
Yep, training on Nav'd be a good thing! :D
It's a toughie but the sense of satisfaction when it all works out is great. Not that I'm a 'glass half empty' type of person but I'm always sure I'm not gonna make my next waypoint and equally amazed when I do.
Met tomorrow, gulp! Got my knickers in twist over the difference between semi-occluded and quasi-stationery fronts :confused: but think I've got to the bottom of it, just hope I know it well enough for the exam!
I can really relate to your engine noises bit. I'm sure I carb heat more than I need to, just in case! Then I worry I'm doing it too much…
Hey-ho, all good fun!

Whirlybird

2nd Dec 2004, 15:45

I can really relate to your engine noises bit. I'm sure I carb heat more than I need to, just in case! Then I worry I'm doing it too much…

It doesn't matter if you do use carb heat more often than you need to. Much better than not using it enough! Flying a C150 that's extremely prone to carb icing, I've sometimes been using full carb heat all the time, and it's done no harm. Look back at my fairly recent thread on this topic if you like.

Margo

2nd Dec 2004, 15:51

Thanks Whirlybird!
Guess I've got some catching up to do...

mazzy1026

2nd Dec 2004, 17:56

I'm sure I carb heat more than I need to, just in case!
I'll have to second that one, but agree with Whirly - better to use it too much than not at all. Whirly, I did read your mentioned post, very interesting indeed.

Hope you manage to untwist them knickers in time for your exam :E I Would'nt worry too much about a high level of detail in quasi or stationary fronts, you will probably find there will only be one question on them, perhaps 2. As long as you understand the fundamentals - I am sorry but I dont have my MET book with me or I would help out, I am sat in uni (yes I know it's late) and I should be doing work - but here I am!

Best of luck,

Lee :)

steve181

3rd Dec 2004, 08:14

mazzy1026 are you flying in a Traumahawk? Is that what most people here are training in? I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but i don't have the patience to go through all the pages!

mazzy1026

3rd Dec 2004, 08:35

Steve - yes its the Tomahawk. As for others......

Lee

1pudding1

3rd Dec 2004, 08:38

PA28-161/160/140's here.

c-bert

3rd Dec 2004, 09:51

PA-28 161 here. Only a couple of years younger than me. :(

Blinkz

3rd Dec 2004, 11:43

most of my training has been on a pa38-112, but that went away for its annual in mid november so am currently flying a pa28-161 till my tommy returns. I have to say tho the pa28 is much nicer to fly then the 38. The 38 needs constant attention and it rarely will trim exactly how you want it (comes from having a crappy spring trimmer). The 28 is much more relaxing to fly.

I'm looking forward to touring in the clubs archer when I get my PPL :ok:

Margo

3rd Dec 2004, 15:43

Hurray, hurray, unravelled knickers and passed Met! :D :D
However, no amount of pouting or eyelash fluttering got me a flight, so back to work…:(
Phew, all exams completed and now I can focus on flying.:cool:
I’m in a C150-152, it’s cheap & very forgiving! Hope to convert when qualified. Looked at a share in a Piper Cub but think it's perhaps too soon; perhaps I should get qualified and do a few trips first!
Have a fun flying weekend...

steve181

4th Dec 2004, 06:42

Partenavia P 68
Piper PA28 range
Piper PA38

Hampshire Hog

4th Dec 2004, 13:33

PA28-161 at EGTB too. Stop showing off Cbert, ours are at least 10 years younger than me, even though they're probably about the same age as yours!

Excellent lesson the other day. Instructor would have let me go solo, but the vis was too poor. Even he lost his visual references in the circuit, so not much hope for me. Very hazy with the low setting sun, but beautiful colours just above the haze layer as well. Take offs and landings now just about sorted (although Thursday was so calm it felt like flying a glideslope with the autopilot engaged! I'll wait to see whether I can still pull off a reasonable landing on a gusty day)

Paul

Sunfish

5th Dec 2004, 19:10

The camel went through the eye of the needle - I passed!

I learned a lot on the test and I think I might do some more instructional work as well.

Two things I learned :

Don't be afraid to pull the power right back to idle if necessary, 1500-1700 rpm on approach is a guide only.

You CAN do steep turns at 500 feet with two notches of flaps at 80 knots, although its a good idea to have the fuel pump on just in case.

While we are trained to be gentle, coordinated and precise, don't be afraid to be rough if necessary to get the required performance.

Now a three week wait for the licence to arrive.

Gertrude the Wombat

5th Dec 2004, 19:16

You CAN do steep turns at 500 feet with two notches of flaps at 80 knots Went for a flightseeing trip in Alaska, over Glacier Bay.

At one point my film ran out, whilst we were over a glacier, between two rock walls. "No problem" said the kid who was flying, "you change your film and I'll just stay here".

He proceeded to do a steep turn on the spot until I'd changed the film. But the rock walls were sufficiently close that to get the turn tight enough he had to close the throttle somewhat, not quite how you're taught to do steep turns on the PPL course! (This was at nowhere near 500' above the ice, and nowhere near 500' from the cliffs either side.)

kookabat

6th Dec 2004, 04:26

Hey, nice work Sunfish!! :ok:

-me? FINALLY got back into an aeroplane this morning... just 1.9 hrs out and back, short nav since I hadn't flown since mid October... wasn't too bad, a bit of fun dodging cloud over the escarpment on the way back in - climbing over and coming back down the other side - then a PFL from 4000' overhead the field. Pleasant morning's work all up. Now to see if I can get the time off work for another try at that Canberra one next week!

Adam

djpil

6th Dec 2004, 05:09

The camel went through the eye of the needle - I passed! congratulations Sunfish! Ready for some spinning then?

mazzy1026

6th Dec 2004, 09:10

Well done Sunfish - I am envyous of you! Bet you cant wait for it to arrive in the post eh ;)

GTW - scary stuff, did you actually manage to change the film? :}

Me is booked in tomorrow at 1200 - I really hope the weather is ok, it should be sunny alright but I am worried whether the wind will stay at bay. Adam, now you can let go of the flight sim, you no longer need that fix (until next week) hehe :*

Cheers

Lee :ok:

Hampshire Hog

8th Dec 2004, 09:14

Sunfish,

Congratulations! It seems like you've completed your PPL incredibly quickly (compared to someone like me - taking the slow road with the help of the UK weather!).

Keep posting - it would be really interesting to know how those first few hours post-qualification feel. Fly safe!

HH

tired-flyboy

8th Dec 2004, 11:02

Its been a long time since i read this board (the last time it was only at page 8 (i think ):\

Anyways - Mazzy nice to see your still at it - and good luck for your test.

I finally had mine a couple of weeks ago (after nearly 5 years of trying!!) and passed also - that feeling is incredible when the examiner tells you.

But be prepared to be very very tired if you do it all in the one day.

The weather for my test wasn't all that great but the vis beneath the stratus was about 8km+. nice little route around oxfordshire and even had time to admire Silverston (not much but to somebody from north of Hadrians wall still a nice view!)

Had to share it with somebody sorry for butting in!

Cheers all

:ok:

mazzy1026

9th Dec 2004, 07:03

Hello flyboy and welcome back - great news on your test, well done :ok:

I have had 4 solo's now, and each time they drain energy out of me due to high levels of concentration, so I understand what you mean about being tired, however, I cannot imagine what the skills tets must do to you :E

Cheers

Lee :)

mazzy1026

9th Dec 2004, 10:46

Speaking of 4 solo's, I havent written the last one up yet.

Havent really got much to report to be honest, apart from the fact that I only got 2 landings done in 35 mins due to the amount of orbiting I had to do. Loads of traffic this time round, EasyJet's all over the place, and yet another Citation!

One thing is, the controller asked me to remain at the start of the downind leg (I was coming towards the end of xwind). So I was wondering, which way to turn? Bearing in mind I was in a left hand circuit, I chose to turn left, as this seemed natural at the time........should I have turned right perhaps? Not too serious I presume, but worthy of a discussion hehe :ok:

Safe flying all - NAV TRAINING SOON :D :D :D

Lee

Whirlybird

9th Dec 2004, 10:53

Maz,

It gets less tiring as your skills develop. But it can still be totally exhausting, at any stage, if you're close to your own limits. It's one reason to be reasonably careful, once you've got your PPL, and make haste slowly, as it were.

But we can talk more about that when you're a little nearer to that point, as you soon will be. :ok:

Blinkz

9th Dec 2004, 11:12

Sounds good maz, I've not flown for a week. With ur obit direction I think I prob would have turned right at the beginning of downwind, with a left turn you end up flying the wrong way down downwind for abit. Just my opinion.

Nav is cool, but my experience so far is that you fly far less because the weather generally needs to be better :{

I hate the british weather!!! :\

ThePirateKing

9th Dec 2004, 11:36

Mazzy, Blinkz,

Quote from GASIL2001/4:

Once in the vicinity of the aerodrome (usually accepted as being within the ATZ or what it would be if it existed), all turns must be made in the circuit direction. Air traffic controllers, and only they, may issue conflicting instructions within an ATZ, but otherwise pilots must follow the rules. It is also important to know where everyone else is in a busy circuit.
Rgds,

TPK:ok:

mazzy1026

9th Dec 2004, 12:03

It's one reason to be reasonably careful, once you've got your PPL, and make haste slowly, as it were. Excellent point, this ties in well with the "Quitting Flying" thread. If anyone hasn't seen it, it may be worth a read :ok:

all turns must be made in the circuit direction Looks like I made the right decision :O An example where a turn would be in the other direction could possibly be at the end of the downwind, i.e. to the right, as if it were left, then you'd be on base....:confused:

Thanking you's

Lee

Blinkz

10th Dec 2004, 18:18

Hey guys,
Took my air gen and pof today, got 92% :D

My next flight will be my first solo from edinburgh, all i need is some decent weather :{ maybe tomorrow if the mist doesn't stay long (but it will :E )

mazzy1026

11th Dec 2004, 15:25

Nice one Blinkz! Best of luck leaving the zone ;)

magpienja

13th Dec 2004, 21:17

Mazzy are you going friday night to the flying club evening I will be there with my pal martin.

Nick.

mazzy1026

14th Dec 2004, 10:23

Hey I didn't realise you would be going magpie! Yes I will be there, I will PM you my details now :ok:

Blinkz

15th Dec 2004, 18:13

Hey guys,
This will be the last update before xmas since tomorrow I'm off home down south until january.

Today was a great day, woke up and saw gorgeous clear weather :D So I managed to finally get my first solo from edinburgh! It was sooooo good. A proper flight out into the lothians and just flying about. I also did 2 PFLs and some steep turns. Am still buzzing :D

After I got back I took my Human Performance & Limitations exam, got 100% (tho I don't think it counts since its possibly the easiest thing I've ever done :} )

Hope you all have a great xmas!!!

mazzy1026

16th Dec 2004, 09:50

Great news Blinkz - sounds fantastic :cool:

I have cancelled a 0900 flight today as we are expecting 40kt gusts - twice in a row I have cancelled now, looks like the flight sim will be getting loaded up soon :rolleyes:

Have a great Christmas people, hope all goes well and you dont put too much weight on (like I will) :{

Best wishes,

Lee :ok:

mazzy1026

20th Dec 2004, 09:22

I never knew I would make such good progress today, as I was thinking I would need at least another circuit session before I am on nav, but I was wrong! I was a little cheeky though, I agreed to get back to the office for 1330, but as my last landing (or supposed last landing) was bang on 1330, I just couldn’t resist one more. And it paid off. The weather was totally superb, CAVOK and not a cloud in sight. There was about 7 knots of wind which made it interesting, as it was changing direction quite quickly and was, at times, a little bumpy.

The first circuit we done (to get checked out) was a left hand one on rw09. This was new to me, in terms of runway and circuit direction. My first solo was a right hand circuit on 09, so we done two left hand circuits, then I dropped my instructor off.

Now was sat on the apron, ready to go. Mistake number one………

“GLF## at kilo, with delta, ready for departure, QFE………”
GLF## this is approach, contact tower 12…………..”
“Sorry about that, will contact tower on …..”

Ah well, first time I had done that, and hopefully it will be the last! I did feel a bit stupid, but I reckon everyone must have done something like that at some point! We were having a discussion about mistakes back at the office, and I came to the conclusion that everyone has made even the silliest mistake, and the good thing is, every mistake that I have made I have remembered, and I make a conscious decision to check that I don’t do it again, for example, after leaving the harness out the door during power checks a few months ago, it made a really loud rattle as you may recall from a previous post, so every time I close the door now, I check that it aint out the door!

On one of the downwind legs I was given number two to an easyjet which was on 4 mile final, I could see it coming in and was aware of the vortex spacing, so I slowed down to 80 knots to allow more time – was I wrong in doing this? There was nobody else behind me or in front otherwise I wouldn’t have done it. I had a great time, and clocked 55 minutes, which is exactly what I needed to hit the 3 hour mark, I am now exactly on 3 hours solo and can begin navigation! I have one lesson in January with another chap, as my regular instructor is on leave. We are going over PFL’s and precautionary landings, and maybe the odd sideslip too, as I wanted to revise them.

I am amazed at how much I have progressed. I was reading the first few pages of my diary the other day and couldn’t believe the stuff I was saying, i.e. “how the hell will I ever fly that thing by myself”? Now I will say the same thing about nav – how the hell do I get to Wolverhampton, to Blackpool and then back to Liverpool without getting lost?!!

Regards all – and have a nice Christmas,

Lee

kookabat

20th Dec 2004, 10:58

“GLF## at kilo, with delta, ready for departure, QFE………”
GLF## this is approach, contact tower 12…………..”
“Sorry about that, will contact tower on …..”

Ahh the old 'wrong frequency' chesnut... done that a few times, though it was spotted by my instructor rather than any controllers - made a CTAF entry call on area frequency :oops:
--best one was heard rather than made by me though: call went out "Sydney Radar, ABC, request..." - reply: "I'd love to approve you, but this isn't Radar - try 12x.x", followed by "oh... BOTHER!!!".
(well, we laughed...) :D

Meanwhile no flying for me until instructor gets back from holidays :{ , I'm gunna take a full week off work early in the new year and spend as much time as I can at the airport - I figure I've got to get at least ONE day of decent flying weather in seven!!!

Anyhoos... all the compliments of the season and all that to all...
Adam

Blinkz

20th Dec 2004, 13:23

hehe, yea most people make that kinda mistake. I've never broadcast on the wrong freq but after my first solo when I stoped to pick up my instructor for 2 more dual cirtcuits I managed to not turn the radio on. I realised just before I taxied onto the active lol. Like you say lesson learned and now I always check :)

Glad things are going well tho maz, good effort! I'm just stuck in hampshire being depressed because the weather yesturday was so nice and I couldn't go flying!!!!!

c-bert

22nd Dec 2004, 08:05

Merry Christmas/holidays to all. Hope for some good flying in the New Year (its been a while now :( )

Mark

kookabat

22nd Dec 2004, 11:12

being depressed because the weather yesturday was so nice and I couldn't go flying!!!!!

You get used to THAT pretty quickly, let me tell you!!:{

Hampshire Hog

25th Dec 2004, 08:35

Merry Christmas to everyone on here. Best wishes for the New Year and, I'm sure, we'll all be sharing the same wish for some better weather in 2005!

HH

mazzy1026

4th Jan 2005, 16:41

Greetings all!

It's been a while since my last post, as obviously over the xmas period, I aint got any flying done!

I was booked in today, but it was too windy, and as I am now officially on NAV, it was to be my first groundschool lecture for this subject. We went through the syllabus and summarised what I had done and what I had left to do etc. Then we basically brushed up on everything so far, looking at RT, circuit detail, PFL's etc and then went on to talk a little about the aviation charts and the AIP (thee Bible!!)

I got all my equipment out that I received in the AFE pack, and we went through some bits and bobs, then looked at the charts and what some of the symbols meant. Then, we went onto what would be my first solo out of the zone, and went through it step by step. I learned a great way of remembering the emergency transponder codes - see what you think of this:

7500 (seventy five - taken alive) - HIJACK
7600 (seventy six - need a fix) - Radio broken

You can guess the last one right?

7700 (seventy seven - gone to heaven) Mayday

I also learned a fantastic way to work out the crosswind component. At first look, I thought "what the hell?" then it sunk in pretty quick. It's hard for me to explain but you basically take the angle between the runway and the wind (so for runway 27, wind of 230 degrees, the difference is 40 degrees). (Lets say the wind speed is 30kts) Then you count backwards from 40 using the 4 i.e. 3....2 - and this reversed gives you 2 over 3 (or two thirds). Then, two thirds of 30 is 20, so the xwind component is 20kts. I reckon that had to be the worlds worst explanation, so if someone knows what the hell I am on about, please feel free to come and expand a little!

Very much looking forward to my next flight, and once again (that same old feeling) I am wondering:

"How am I going to be able to fly the thing by myself away form the airport?"

And once again, I am hoping to be looking back in a few months time, wondering why I asked that question.

Happy new year everyone, and enjoy the flying,

Lee
:ok:

c-bert

5th Jan 2005, 07:23

I don't know about anyone else but I have trouble adding 4 mins to 29 mins when I'm flying, let alone subtracting 170 degrees from 240 degrees!

I guess it will get better but still not a lot of spare capacity during complex manoeuvres. :(

APRIANA

5th Jan 2005, 11:24

Hi Mazzy,

very interesting read:D . Alot of the issues / experiences you have had, I've also had. I trained in the Tommy and now have 80 hrs, I gained my PPL last March.

Re the crosswind I tend to think of it as if it's 30deg off of the Runway then you get roughly half of wind component, if it's 45deg off you get roughly 3/4 off the wind component, at 60deg off I just call it full crosswind

i.e. Runway 23 wx 260/12, your cross wind would be 6kts,

Wish you all the best with your NAV work.

Apriana

Hampshire Hog

5th Jan 2005, 12:52

Hi Mazzy, c-bert and all. Happy New Year!

Well, my last lesson before Christmas was far from good. I went back to flaring too early or too late and generally scaring the life out of my instructor. After a very good previous lesson, I'd expected to go solo, but instead ended up frustrated and cross at my apparent regression. At nearly 20 hours, I am beginning to feel bad about my lack of progress and I think it's frustrating my instructor too.

Booked to fly again tomorrow, but the weather looks questionable.

HH

Penguina

5th Jan 2005, 13:10

you basically take the angle between the runway and the wind (so for runway 27, wind of 230 degrees, the difference is 40 degrees). (Lets say the wind speed is 30kts) Then you count backwards from 40 using the 4 i.e. 3....2 - and this reversed gives you 2 over 3 (or two thirds). Then, two thirds of 30 is 20, so the xwind component is 20kts

Think midair trigonometry would be simpler than that! :)

Hampshire Hog - we've all been there. Sometimes it's just a bad day. I remember it from my interminable Ex12&13 days and was reminded of it recently when I seemed to regress during one session in my night training. Needless to say, all was well in the end.

I remember my first instructor saying that people who turn up expecting to go solo often fly worse. Whether this is subliminal because you're nervous about soloing or that you're putting pressure on yourself to get it perfect so you can and become too tense I don't know. I believe some instructors don't even mention the possibility in case this happens.

Whatever the case, I find that banishing expectations good or bad and concentrating on the job in hand does help with flying (after PPL as well).

Hope next week's weather is better! :(

APRIANA

5th Jan 2005, 13:26

I remember when I was about two hours from the end of the PPL course, me and my Instructor we doing a practice diversion / dummy skills test. After I completed it he just looked at me and said "what the hell was that". I dropped my chart, wasn't holding height or direction and messed it all up - purely nerves, however 3 hours later I had passed!

mazzy1026

5th Jan 2005, 17:16

Aprian - Welcome! I like that version, simplicity at it's best :)

HH - dont get too down about it mate, it happens to us all - just learn from it and the next time you have a good flight you will realise.

Penguina, hey nice to see you here again - it's been a while. How are you doing and how is the night flying coming along? ;)

Been such a crappy weeks weather so hopefully will get airborne next week for my first flight 'out of the cage'!

Lee :ok:

Hampshire Hog

6th Jan 2005, 23:35

Well, after my last post, I'm pleased to say that my lesson today banished my angst and that I have now completed my first solo with my dignity intact and the aircraft still usable:D However there was one minor excitement - an incident with a learning point for us all I think (see below). Sorry for the very long post that follows, but after a 1st solo ...

Penguina, I read your advice after the lesson, but I think you make a very good point. I was nervous about my expected solo, whereas today I felt really relaxed and had no particular expectations - much better.

Apriana, my instructor made exactly the same comment, 'what the hell was that', after one of my botched landing attempts several lessons ago. A short reminder of how important it is to remain calm and in control I think!

And Mazzy, thanks for your kind words as well.

So, what about the lesson and that learning point?

Well, after thoroughly checking the aircraft (I'm a stickler for this) and noting a slightly low oil level (my instructor promptly filled it), I managed a perfect readback on the taxi clearance and off to the hold. Power checks and pre-take off fine, followed by a nice relaxed take-off (thanks again for that earlier advice c-bert). Up to 1000' and into what my instructor had previously described as 'wispy cloud'. Could I see where I was? Only intermittently. Now, some people have suggested earlier on this forum that flight sim can be a bad thing for student pilots (which is true), but put a student with loads of sim exerience into cloud and I recon they worry about it a lot less. My only concern was getting lost. Flying the aircraft without an external horizon etc. holds few fears (although I haven't experienced turb in cloud yet!). Anyway, we ultimately elected to fly the circuit at 900' (which gives us only 100' separation from the helicopters and so requires constant vigilance) with far better vis. 3 touch-and-goes all great. Nice stable approaches. On the 4th, my ever kind instructor pulled the throttle, just to check I had remembered that SEP aircraft go downwards when the engine cuts. Then he suggested we do a couple of full stop landings. Back into the hold (power check area) and (I suppose I was expecting this really) he then asked if I thought I could take it around myself. What do you say in reply to a question like that? I decided to take my chance, before I regressed again!

So, there I am, sat in the LHS on my own. Yes, I know it's been said before, but it's an odd feeling (a friend of mine who is now an A320 captain told me recently that she burst into tears when her instructor offered her first solo!). I wasn't about to cry, but I was determine to do things right and make a safe return to Earth. I ran through the pre-take off checks twice, checked the mags (just for good measure) and called 'ready'. With an immediate take-off clearance I had little more to do than a quick check up the approach path, line up and start rolling. Again, I know it's been said before, but the Warrior feels like a jet fighter unsticking when you haven't got a nice heavy instructor sat next to you. I was expecting it, but it still surprised me how sprightly this aircraft could be. Up to 900' in no time and I was pleased to discover that I still knew where I was in the circuit! As some suggested before on this forum, having a quick sing-song to myself helped me to stay relaxed, completed the downwind checks in good time (I kept carb heat on for longer than I do with my instructor present) and called downwind. There was one ahead of me turning base, so I slowed a little to give him time for whatever (we have to backtrack after landing on the hard runway at Wycombe during the winter). All still quite relaxed. He then said he was on final for a touch-and-go, so I put the speed back on again and prepared to turn base. The plane in front was on final but he was going to do a touch-and-go so no problem.

Now here's the thing. The plane in front did become a problem (well a potential one anyway). His instructor reported that they had landed and that their engine had stopped. The no.1 was now blocking the runway. I stayed relaxed, monitored the situation and thought through the go-around that might be necessary. I heard the tower tell the disabled aircraft that if they managed to get restarted they could move onto the grass to let me (on first solo) land. I was down to about 400' on final they did just that (pity really, I was enjoying myself!).

I landed, slightly fast, but comfortably with no balloon or bounce, with clearance to backtrack and a nice compliment from the tower, not to mention a very big grin! Taxied back to the apron and managed to park the thing without hitting anything (parking it alone, for me, feels more unnerving than going solo!).

My instructor came out and, as we walked back to the clubhouse, we had a chat with the instructor in the plane that had suffered the engine failure. They concluded that the cause had been carb-ice. The instructor also explained that they had ballooned and had just been about to open the throttle to go-around when the engine cut - so committed to land anyway!

Made me think:

1. I'm glad I took more hours rather than less to go solo - my confidence in the circuit, experience of monitoring the radio and of many go-arounds (as a result of my numerous botched attempts during previous lessons) meant I wasn't panicking about the unfolding events, just monitoring and planning my next actions depending on how things played out. It's taken me a total of 19 hours, but I just wouldn't have wanted to be there 4 or 5 hours ago.

2. Maybe we should use carb-ice more. I have always tended to keep carb-heat on for longer than typically taught (especially on final) for two reasons. First, when you think about how long it takes to melt a block of ice with a hair drier, the 10 seconds of carb-heat many instructors encourage is almost certainly inadequate and, secondly, there are a load of factories under the approach to our runway 24 and I'm not planning on landing on them any day soon.

So, thanks to everyone for their support up to now. Can't wait for the coming lessons and all that solo consolidation, but not in the wind howling around my house right now!

HH

c-bert

7th Jan 2005, 07:26

Congrats Paul!

Won't be long and you'll be pinging all over the place solo. Now there's a thought. :ok:

I'm booked in again tomorrow so I hope this gale/rain/cloud clears....BBC assure me it will. :rolleyes:

APRIANA

7th Jan 2005, 08:25

Well done Hampshire Hog!

An interesting first solo then:D .

It is strange looking to the right and just seeing a headset sitting where the instructor should be, but when I got up I just started to sing and focus on flying.

If carb ice conditions are present, then 10 sec is not long enough to thaw it out, so your right in getting it on just as you turn downwind.

Whirlybird

7th Jan 2005, 08:46

Congratulations, Hampshire Hog. :ok: Good to know we have another pilot in our midst.

Maybe we should use carb-ice more. I have always tended to keep carb-heat on for longer than typically taught (especially on final) for two reasons. First, when you think about how long it takes to melt a block of ice with a hair drier, the 10 seconds of carb-heat many instructors encourage is almost certainly inadequate and, secondly, there are a load of factories under the approach to our runway 24 and I'm not planning on landing on them any day soon

Bloody hell; who's telling you ten seconds is enough? :eek: :eek: :eek: While there are many, many different views on use of carb heat, and a thread I started a bit back if you want to do a search and read some of them, one thing is certain - 10 SECONDS IS DEFINITELY NOT LONG ENOUGH. Thirty seconds is more like it. And a little too much carb heat won't do any harm, unless you're trying to climb. Why, why, why do some instructors do this? What do they have against carb heat? If in doubt, use it.

Hampshire Hog

7th Jan 2005, 12:06

c-bert - hope the weather clears for you.

Re. carb-heat. I should add that I didn't mean to suggest my instructor teaches short bursts. He's quite sensible about it, but many instructors do teach the 10second burst and I don't think it's long enough. I agree with the line 'too much rather than too little'.

I believe our club is considering changing its procedures so that carb-heat is kept on until landed - but turned off for a go-around. Must be the safer option.

HH

c-bert

7th Jan 2005, 12:19

Thanks HH.

I have been taught to put carb heat on when I put the first two stages of flap down on base, and the carb heat then comes off when the third stage of flap is put down on final. That way it is already off for a go around, but is on until fairly close to touch down.

Blinkz

7th Jan 2005, 14:17

Congrats HH, glad you made it. Its a great feeling!

Where abouts you fly from in Hampshire?

With carb heat in the circuit I will put it on when I start my descent (so mid-base leg) and will then turn it off whilst doing the CRAP checks at 300ft, unless the conditions dictate otherwise(low cloud/humid etc)

I agree you should err on the side of caution but there are other things you need to think about. You should try and avoid using carb heat on/near the ground as it is not filtered and so can allow all kinds of crap into the engine, and if you need to do a go around then you really should have full power availble instantly and not have to be fumbling with the carb heat switch first.

Just my 2p. Congrats again HH! :ok:

Hampshire Hog

7th Jan 2005, 14:50

Hi Blinkz,

Thanks for your comments. I use carb-heat on base and I prefer to keep it on during final until fairly close to landing. Yes, there's a risk of forgetting to turn it off, but I think the risk of ingesting crap into the engine in that case must be lower than the risk from an engine failure on final.

Although I live in Hampshire (near Blackbushe - where I started flying) I now fly from Booker (Wycombe Air Park). Bit of a drive, but for all sorts of reasons I prefer it.

HH

tony norman

7th Jan 2005, 15:24

this is only my 7th post..... so no-one will knowme but i thought i'd put my 2p worth.

i always use carb heat from the moment i drop the power to start my desent (and take 2 stages of flap).... i leave it on until i touch down.... in the case of a touch and go. Get rid of all my flap , carb heat off then full power and rotate at desired airspeed. and for a go around, full power, carb heat off, drag flap away pos rate of climb 2nd stage away, pos rate of climb 1st stage away.

as for carb heat on my downwind checks, its the first thing i do and the last thng i do.... so it stays on for my entire check. as you say.... too much is better than too little.

PUT - Stapleford in Essex

Gertrude the Wombat

7th Jan 2005, 16:58

Congratulations and all that, but do please remember ...Up to 1000' and into what my instructor had previously described as 'wispy cloud'. Could I see where I was? Only intermittently. Now, some people have suggested earlier on this forum that flight sim can be a bad thing for student pilots (which is true), but put a student with loads of sim exerience into cloud and I recon they worry about it a lot less. ... that the average life expectancy of a non-instrument qualified pilot in cloud is 178 seconds, as discussed here from time to time, whether or not they've played with toys on PCs, the occasional lucky one notwithstanding.

Penguina

7th Jan 2005, 17:36

Yeah, once you start reading all the literature about on that, it puts you off taking risks with straying too close to IMC unqualified... :uhoh:

HH - congratulations! That was quite an eventful first solo! BTW - I told you so! ;)

Mazzy - hello, and I'm doing very well thanks. :) & you? Very remiss of me not to make my presence felt more on this thread, but in my defence I've been busy. :zzz:

The night training... well lets just say the weather's helping me spin out every last second of pleasure - and I am enjoying it no end so I am quite glad in a way! :) Finally managed to solo last week, so I just have an hour or so to complete now. Enjoyed the solo very much. A rather attention-seeking wind, a game of hide and seek with a bizjet, three satisfying landings then home for tea and medals.

Then I left the airfield and got on the wrong bus. Non-essentials off and all that! :rolleyes:

Whirlybird

7th Jan 2005, 18:44

... that the average life expectancy of a non-instrument qualified pilot in cloud is 178 seconds, as discussed here from time to time, whether or not they've played with toys on PCs, the occasional lucky one notwithstanding.

Yes, I noticed that rather worrying bit of over-confidence too, but forgot to say anything. I wonder why it's only those of us with some instrument flying experience who really know how difficult it is, and know that messing around with flight sim won't really help. Please, trust me on this, and stay away from the fluffy stuff until you're qualified to fly in it. The fact that it doesn't worry you is not the point.

mazzy1026

7th Jan 2005, 20:21

WARNING - "alcohol induced post" :eek:

Firstly, Paul - nice one mate, well done. Great isn't it and it only get's better from here on. You have done very well but I will reiterate what Whirly and Gertrude say about the clouds (especially in the circuit) - please do be careful, I have seen many horror stories on prune about flying IMC when not qualified, and Jeremy Pratt (AFE books author) is hell bent on not doing it. When you think about it, 178 seconds is just under the life expectancy of a Royal Marine in a full war situation (according to a marine friend) - so take care mate ;)

With regards to the carb heat - I never used to have it on at all - only for a few seconds in the downwind checks (now there's a worrying thought) but after some more instruction, I now have it on from just before I reduce power for descent, until I reach 300 ft. I find sometimes that this can cock up the approach as you gain some RPM when you turn it back off, but careful throttle management overcomes this.

Penguina - no need to apologise. Having just one post from you is a pleasure :ok:
Then I left the airfield and got on the wrong bus. Non-essentials off and all that!
I'd have paid to see your face upon realising that :D

Tony - welcome aboard. Nice to see you in here posting. Please do continue :cool:

I think on one of my next lessons, I am to do the situational awareness training - where I close my eyes and have the instructor perform manoeuvres - I then have to figure out what we just did. I am betting I will get a lot of it wrong - and this emphasises the fact of staying out of cloud until qualified.

Thank you again,

Lee

Hampshire Hog

9th Jan 2005, 15:35

Now listen folks,

Please don't think that in my 'first solo' inspired post I was suggesting anything close to overconfidence. I first took up flying because I was scared of it! Safety is everything to me (you should see how carefully I check the aircraft) and I have no intention of deliberately straying into cloud - sim experience or not. I guess my point was that many instructors criticise sim pilots for constantly looking that the instruments rather than outside. After entering cloud instruments are necessary and I suspect those same sim pilots are more used to looking at them.

Having said that, I was comfortable with the situation because I absolutely trust my instructor. He is a retired 747 captain with thousands of hours of experience on aircraft dating back to the end of the war. If I find myself in cloud with him sat next to me - I have every confidence that he can get me out of it.

I have no intention of exceeding my capabilities (and I am all too aware that 1 circuit does not a flying career make).

Nonetheless, you were all absolutely right to make the point and put my slightly ill judged comments in their place.

HH

Whirlybird

9th Jan 2005, 16:56

Hampshire Hog,

Glad to hear that. :ok: And I didn't mean to sound critical; I was just concerned. :(

If you look way, way back, if the search function lets you do that and you have lots and lots of time, you might find a thread where someone said something to the effect that all good pilots flew by the seat of their pants anyway, and could therefore fly in cloud. I explained why that didn't work without visual references. John Farley posted and agreed with me, and then the guy listened. I just wanted to make sure someone else wasn't making a similar mistake.

GonTek

9th Jan 2005, 17:19

Hi Folks
I read this thread when you first started, congratulations for having the guts to do it and for getting as far as you have it's not easy.
I started a couple of years ago and am no spring chicken, I have now 100 hrs + night and IMC rating most of it done in the dark/in cloud. That is scary...

Dont let the moaners put you off, they are entitled to their opinion
you dont have to listen !!!

Keep at it (it gets worse the more you learn ! )

Fly Safe.

mazzy1026

10th Jan 2005, 09:44

GonTek

Welcome aboard mate - some good points there :ok:

Lee

Hampshire Hog

10th Jan 2005, 22:39

Whirly,

I had the experience of spacial disorientation in cloud, at night, up front in a 737 a few years ago. In the LAM hold for EGLL. I could have sworn we were turning the other way, but the instruments told the true story. A lesson I've never forgotten.

HH

mazzy1026

13th Jan 2005, 12:19

I took a lot on board today, and I am starting to learn the true value of flying - how to get places! We had a about 2 hours sat down with all my equipment laid out and he went through the very basics of Navigation, from the curvature of the earth and LAT/LONG lines, all the way to the numbers that go round the compass. It is good because he laid it out in a way that I had never actually thought of before, and it all helped my understanding a great deal. For anyone starting NAV - dont miss out the basic simple stuff, it all forms part of a big picture.

The main area for now was to learn how to calculate heading required and groundspeed, given a certain wind condition (this all done using the whizz wheel - by the way I have the ARC-1 from AFE, anyone got this? I have some questions about it later). He drew a straight line, which was a True Track (very important) and it represented us flying A to B. Then we went through all the necessary steps as to calculate the required heading to fly, and what are grounspeed would be (with 90kts airspeed). At first this seemed all very daunting - but as we went through each stage seperately, and I made of a note of what to do (in logical order), it all started to fit into place, and I was actually enjoying what I was doing (sad arent I) :D

Anyway, it all went well, but the fact it, as I left the building, I knew that by about 8pm I would have forgotten it and would need to go over it more (no way anyone would take this on first time) - I knew I was in for some serious practice in order to get it right. So I gave it a go in the evening, and honestly couldnt understand some of my notes - I went over it again and again (also using the instruction manual that came with it - this has slightly different methods though) and in the end I had cracked it - I made some further notes that were easier to understand, so at least when I come back to it (I will definately need my notes again) I can do it successfully.

I would like to thank Blinkz for his help on MSN in this subject - it was a good introduction and he was very (very) patient with me - cheers :ok:

I look forward to writing the next post - which will be my first solo trip out of the zone - I hope it goes smooth, and I hope it is tomorrow - but we will see.

FFF - if you still read this, you were right about how good all this Nav malarky is :p

Thanks guys,

Lee :)

Questions about the whizz wheel to come soon.......

kookabat

14th Jan 2005, 00:49

You want sad? Howzabout making flight plans (complete with wind) for flights you have no intention of ever making, just to see if you can - good for those times you can't go flying for whatever reason, and always good practice too!

(Of course, it loses its appeal when you actually have to re-do a flightplan four or five times because the flight keeps getting cancelled for whatever reason... )

Having said that, I have a few days off work this weekend, hoping to do at least three of the four navs I have to do before the flight test... getting there slowly!

Adam

Penguina

14th Jan 2005, 13:05

Oh, you mean it's sad to enjoy planning...? :O :8

Bob Stinger

16th Jan 2005, 11:39

What a great thread.
I am currently doing my PPL ,went solo in mid December and then did two solo flights last Thursday one 75 mins and one 40 mins so another 45 mins required to reach the three hours required.
Currently fly a C152 but the plan is to swap to a PA28 prior to Nav otherwise we will never get there! Keep it up everybody.
Bob:ok: :ok:

Blinkz

16th Jan 2005, 13:54

Hey guys,
I finally flew on friday, after a month of nothing, and 2 months since flying a pa38. It was a navex to the east of glasgow and then south and back round to edinburgh. It went ok, altho I felt very rusty. More nice weather please!

Gertrude the Wombat

16th Jan 2005, 14:19

Currently fly a C152 but the plan is to swap to a PA28 prior to Nav otherwise we will never get there! What's your issue with the 152 - speed or fuel capacity limited by weight?

Lots of people have done all their training on a 152 ... but it was easier in the days when people were less concerned about the strict legality of taking the things off the ground with a decent amount of fuel in them. Or perhaps we were all thinner then.

Whirlybird

16th Jan 2005, 16:46

Currently fly a C152 but the plan is to swap to a PA28 prior to Nav otherwise we will never get there!

Get...where?? :confused: Two of us took a C150 - slower than a C152 - to Southern Germany and back last summer. It wasn't particularly fast, but not all that slow either. C152s are just fine for touring, and certainly OK for PPL nav. :ok:

kookabat

16th Jan 2005, 21:18

Ahh the old 152 vs PA-28 debate... personally I changed to a Cherokee for my navs, if only for the extra space in the cockpit over two or three hours in the air! The extra 15kt or so TAS makes it slightly more bearable as well, though the extra cost is certainly becoming an issue now.

As for my flying, been foiled by the weather yet again, I'm actually staying near the airfield now (usually it's an hour and a half away), was planning to do at least two or three of the remaining navs over four days - here I am on day three with shoddy cloud over the escarpment AGAIN and all I've done is an hour in the circuit. Someone doesn't like me I think!!!:(

mazzy1026

17th Jan 2005, 11:39

Guys

I am at my lowest point in training so far. I had thee worst flight ever. The trip was to be Liverpool, Kirkby, Leyland, Southport, Seaforth, Liverpool.

After take off, routing Kirkby, we were told to route Seaforth due to traffic - mix up number one. On route I just couldn't seem to relate the chart to what I was seeing out the window - There was a huge river ahead (the Ribble) but there were lots of blue lines on the chart. I should have called Wharton but did so on the last minute, so all I got was an FIS cos she could tell I was up my own ass. My heaight was all over the place - I should have been 2000ft and I was up to 2,600 (I probably busted Manchester airspace) and down to 1300 - complete hash. My airspeed was about the only thing I got right. The flight plan went out the window and I wasnt writing anything down - I had pen in one hand, chart in the other, VFR log on my other knee - a complete mess and I just wasnt doing the obvious - FLYING THE AIRCRAFT. My RT was crap too - botched up the position report (as I didn't know where I was) and kept pausing.

To top it all off - I had the worst landing ever (ok we had 14kt xwind - very close to limit, certainly the strongest one I have experienced so far). I flared early, didn't have the nose straight, floated and then WHALLOP!! :oh: The wind was all over the place and kept gusting in different directions.

I think about the only thing we got near to correct was the timing - we did actually sort of arrive at the checkpoints within a minute of the time calculated. In all honesty, my instructor assured me not to worry as it was my first nav flight, and it was hazy, raining at times, dark(ish) and very windy. He said that a lot of people are like that on their first trip, and I bloody hope so cos if my next flight is like that then I am gonna need some serious practice. Furthermore, there wasnt any proper flight plan - I did it myself and had it checked, so for Wednesday I have booked a 3 hour slot, with groundschool before the flight, to make sure I know what I am doing.

I guess this must be the same feeling that has been experienced by several people in the past, and I have said to them "dont worry it will get better" - well I must take my own advice (and hope to :mad: that the next flight goes alright) :D

Regards all - and I hope you manage to get some flying done :ok:

Lee

DiscoChocolate

17th Jan 2005, 12:18

Lee,

Dont worry about that mate! Like you said it has happened to most of us during training. You will find that you learn a hell of a lot more by making a these mistakes. I know I certainly have. I think one of the best things that I have learnt is being able to anticipate the actions that you will have to carry out and try and organise your workload so your not doing to many things at once.
Most people who have done nav would agree that it is the most demanding aspect of the training but it is also, in my view, the most rewarding.

Good luck on wednesday!

Neil

Blinkz

17th Jan 2005, 12:45

Don't worry mate. Nav is easily the most tricky part of training I've had so far. All of the things you have to do in themselves are quite simple. Unfortunatly we have to do them all at the same time :rolleyes:

Like you say its just practice. Its sounds like you had crap weather, haze is annoying.

Don't lose heart. You'll be fine :ok:

Whirlybird

17th Jan 2005, 12:54

my instructor assured me not to worry as it was my first nav flight,

He's right; try listening to him! And think about it. So far you've been able to concentrate 100% on flying the aircraft, with a bit of radio work thrown in. Now, suddenly, you're trying to do that, plus work out where you, where you're going, how to say some unfamiliar things on the radio (not just "downwind" or "request taxi" any more), and how to juggle a cockpit full of bits of paper. On top of that you had marginal weather, and a crosswind landing. Now, Maz, read that as though it was someone else...doesn't it sound like a rather steep learning curve? But don't worry, as with everything else in flying, it'll get easier as you get more used to it. :ok:

Bob Stinger

17th Jan 2005, 16:04

Well the reason that I am thinking of changing is the extra speed could be usefull also between me and the instructor the C152 is carrying 35 stone to start with , and we are both over 6 foot, it just seems to me to make more sense to swap to the PA28, did some bad weather circuits this morning , and then the weather cleared so up I went on my own, the xwind got up pretty quickly and by the time I called finals it was at 20knts , I tried to battle it and ended up almost down at about 100' over the threshold, it then hit me there was no way I was confident so I called the go around, you guessed it the next circuit very similar only now 21knts , another abort and go around, a bit of panic now set in and i just calmed myself down and had a think, it was then that the nice man in the tower made up my mind for me, he offered me runway 25 the wind was from 230 so I took it got it down taxid to the club and had a long think about what had happened, I concluded after the first go around I should have instigated the change of runway, well live and learn.

GonTek

17th Jan 2005, 19:19

Hello All

Mazzy :
I posted a while ago and I am glad to see you are still posting your escapdes and results of lessons.

I can only echo previous comments and you will find it easier as you progress, I went through the "should I, Should I not " phase
but after spending the money I could not let failure be the end to my flying.

The rewards far outweigh the pressure of learning and it is well worthwhile just for your own self esteem.

safe flying and keep at it !!!!!!!

Regards All
ps
Blinkz and Whirly are dead right,just wait till your test !!!!!

kookabat

18th Jan 2005, 11:40

All of the things you have to do in themselves are quite simple. Unfortunatly we have to do them all at the same time

That's close to the best description I've read of it... love it!

So much for my weekend of flying... two of the four days were weathered out, the other two my instructor was busy with something else... I'm now going to try with another instructor for a bit, who's available when I am!!!

On the plus side, PPL theory is all done now, sat the exam this morning, wasn't too difficult.

Only four navs to go!

Mazzy - try doing all that when you're flying an unfamiliar aircraft as well!! Barrels of fun...:}

Sheepy

18th Jan 2005, 12:14

OK you have reached your Air Nav/ X Country stage

Why not "practice" the Nav side by using MFS2002/4 AND VFR scenery.

Before people say a flight simulator is not realistic especially for GA planes...I agree but combined with VFR scenery you can "fly"your planned route and recognise where you are ( oh look there is the River Ribble or there's Southport) as many times as you want. Once you are familar with how an area looks from the air some of the pressure is off you - allowing you to concentrate on flying or ATC

It isn't expensive and whilst its 2D and not 3D, flying at 2-3'000ft it is really really a good way of getting used to Nav side of things

I know..I used it ...and I passed !!!! There are a lot out there who do

Enjoy !!!

Hampshire Hog

18th Jan 2005, 12:47

Maz,

Don't worry mate! Remember all that advice you gave me when I was getting frustrated with my landings.

Don't forget all that human factors stuff either. Feeding in a load of new tasks it sounds like you're trying to do everything consciously. You can now fly the aircraft without doing this (you had the airspeed correct), so that's one thing out of the way. It also sounds like you were shocked by your altitude deviations (see below) and the difficulty of map reading whilst trying to fly in marginal weather.

I haven't started nav yet, so I have to profess considerable ignorance, but Sheepy's suggestion of using Flight Sim might be worth a try. I recon some areas of the photographic scenary are better than others, so I'm not sure how much help that would be. However, my instructor often talks about the need for practice to keep up 'scan rate' which sounds like it might have been an issue for you (with the altitude problems). FS might help you practice juggling the chart, simulated radio calls (without anyone to tell you off!), rough location (and you can double check using the GPS function!) and scanning airspeed, altitude etc all at the same time.

Don't worry - perseverance will pay off - and I'm sure you'll have a better lesson next time. Mine got cancelled yesterday - occlusion arrived over the airfield at just about the same time as I did:{

Paul

Penguina

18th Jan 2005, 13:38

Hmmph, I just wrote an long reply replete with all kinds of helpful advice that would not fail to revolutionise your flying, Maz, and then I was told I was not logged on and it was lost! :mad:

So it seems you'll never be enlightened. ;)

Anyway, the basic points were:

*Pointed out that chasing an instrument not helpful mid-leg VFR. Getting really well in trim, then using the horizon to hold height & heading and referring to DI (& compass) and altimeter regularly to check you're still OK a better idea, I think. Worked for me, when I developed an unhealthy obsession with my altimeter and was more up and down than someone with PMT...

*Piquant observation that stress = screw-ups is a cruel trick on God's part.

*Said it's much easier to be ahead of your aircraft in good vis ( you can SEE what's coming!:) )

*Recommended the writing down of calls until you're used to it.

*General words of comfort & solidarity.

:)

Yorks.ppl

18th Jan 2005, 15:56

Hi Mazzy, and everyone else who contributes to this thread, I am learning all sorts.

I passed my ppl over a year ago but reading this has taught more than my instructor did!

I was told 10 seconds carb heat, on downwind checks and during freda checks in the cruise, I now do 30 seconds instead!

I had to teach myself to use the wizz wheel, I booked an hours ground school with my instructor before my first nav trip and after him trying to calculate the wind for about 10 mins he declared that it was a "freaky wind" that day and gave up
:confused:
I worked out the winds in my self taught way and off we flew.

Thanks to all who take time to post on here, it is very usefull to those of us who wern't really taught anything during our training!

DRJAD

19th Jan 2005, 14:19

Good points Penguina.

Stress = screw ups is only too true, as is screw ups = stress.

A vicious circle until one takes positive individual action (informed decision) to break out of it.

Blinkz

19th Jan 2005, 15:42

Stress = screw ups is only too true, as is screw ups = stress.

I agree, but I also think that expereince will also help reduce stress when things do go slightly pear shaped.

I'll let you know when I get some, until then....... :uhoh:

:=

gingernut

19th Jan 2005, 15:52

Mazzy keep up the writing !

I don't think I've met any honest pilot who hasn't had days like your last one.

It sounds like your doing the right thing - reflecting on your flight, working out what could have gone better, what you could have done differently to improve the outcome.

The advantage of being a student is that you have got some lattitude to make these mistakes now. Keep on thinking about the flight, mentally rehearsing whenever you've got a spare moment, and make sure your well rested prior to your next attempt. And remember how far you've got and what you've achieved so far.

Thirty06

19th Jan 2005, 19:59

Totally agree with the others. First navex can seem really tough.

I think you are probably right about changing to the PA28 for Nav.

I did all my training in the C150 and it's a fine little plane for getting about in, but cabin space ??

The Warrior has a nice little pocket for putting your pens in and it'll take a small kneeboard and checklist as well. You can chuck stuff on the back seat too if you need to.

My first Navex was absolutely dreadful (Cranfield, Sywell, Conninton, Cranfield how easy is that ??) The second was not a lot better etc. and yet I got through the QXC without getting lost, lousy landings yes, but I didn't get lost.

Keep plugging on and it should all come together.

mazzy1026

20th Jan 2005, 13:29

Thank you all once again for the positive and kind words. I hear what you all say and it is very good advice.

I had more gschool yesterday in preperation for tomorrow. As it turns out, my first solo out the zone will only be Seaforth, Ormskirk, Kirkby............something which can be done visual, and something which I do feel more confident about as it has been the route on most of my flights. I should be doing that tomorrow, hopefully solo, weather depending :uhoh:

I probably wont need a flight plan with headings etc due to the fact that it is mostly visual, but I will do it anyway in the morning before, just for practice :cool:

Wish me luck, and I hope to be alive to come back and post (just kidding),

Bests as ever,

Lee

Aussie Andy

20th Jan 2005, 14:48

You'll be fine mate - and relish it: this was the best part of the whole PPL learning experience for me, and I think for many others.

Andy

Penguina

20th Jan 2005, 17:08

The Warrior has a nice little pocket ...

Yes, it's also definitely more stable and perhaps slightly less workload to keep it S&L while doing other tasks? (Dunno, never flown one from the LHS.)

I agree, but I also think that expereince will also help reduce stress when things do go slightly pear shaped.

Yes, I'm sure that's true. It's worth making a conscious effort at being firm with yourself and doing a reality check if you find the stress levels rising.

Nav is incredibly satisfying when it all works out as planned - you'll love it!

Good luck tomorrow :ok: (wx looks dodgy, mind :( )

Blinkz

20th Jan 2005, 17:58

weathers looking like it might be ok tomorrow and over the weekend, hopefully will get some flying done!

Slow-Rider

20th Jan 2005, 18:41

Reading about your bad day mazzy reminded me of several bad days I've had with nav.
Took a map that was completely wrong once. One leg had duff heading, next had duff time etc. I'm not sure how nav is taught for PPLs because I've only done mil flying which is just heading times and the rest is worked out MDR in the cockpit, so this caused extreme embarrasment!

I found nav to be deathly boring until something goes wrong then it it takes some degree of skill and calmness to sort things out again as you have discovered. Nothing makes you develop that skill faster than getting lost every now and again.

I'm sure you'll get to grips with it very soon but don't get complacent once things start going well or you'll set yourself up for a fall. I found out the hard way on a GH flight with a short, two leg nav out to the GH area. Upon reaching the first turn point I realised the next turn was a completely duff heading. Couldn't beleive I made a mistake on what was probably the world's shortest navex.

Best of luck with the next trip, solo nav was a great confidence booster for me after a very shaky previous nav trip.

mazzy1026

21st Jan 2005, 15:28

Well, after the last flight, all's I can say is that this time I got into the car with a smile on my face :O

I had planned Liverpool - Seaforth, to Kirkby, to Ormskirk and then back in. We went over my calculations, got rid of one or two minor errors and then went out to fly.

Upon takeoff, I had clear in my mind everything that I found difficult last time, and all of my mistakes. Sorry for the Hollywood sounding movie quote, but "I knew what I had to do" :E I had folded my map properly into more of a rectangular shape that covered the area better, then clipped it at the side with bulldog clips, and this has got to be the best thing I have done so far. The chart sat firmly on my knee in perfect position and didn’t move. My advice to anyone else in my position, PLEASE PLEASE fold your map as small as you need, then clip it in place at the sides to stop it form unfolding. It really did help and lightened the workload quite significantly. Ok, so we left via Seaforth and turned onto the calculated heading. At this point I felt a lot more confident because I could relate to the chart better and was using it quite a lot to pick out features (again, just folding it properly and clipping it helped enormously). We headed towards Ormskirk and upon reaching it, we decided on a small exercise. As we were to the right of Burscough Aerodrome, he said to me:

"Estimate a heading we would have to turn to be over the runway"

So I did, and got it reasonably correct. Here comes the interesting part (I will try and explain as best as possible). I then had to turn onto 190 to route to Kirkby, and that would entail a right turn, which is what I did, BUT because the wind was from the left, it meant that I had drifted over a mile, just turning onto Kirkby - which could have been overcome by a turn to the left, i.e. into the wind. This made so much sense and I have remembered this for the future. Ok, tune into ATIS, call approach and away we go - everything smooth so far, and we are both enjoying the flight. The weather was terrible actually, high winds, drizzle, low vis and a cloud base of around 25. Not solo weather, but still, I could pick out features, like I said, refer them to the map and it all made sense. So, on a clear day with nice weather, it should be even better :ok:

Ok onto the approach. We were told to join right base, so we set up. Now normally I am used to 70kts approach, but this time I was instructed for 80 - with no flaps. This threw me off course a little (mentally) but I got set up ok. The xwind component was 15kts - which is the limit on the Tommy, and it was such different approach. 300ft, carb off then line up with the rudder, aileron into the wind with left rudder. Now here my problems started - I must have been in driving mode and started using the wheel to line the nose up, instead of the rudder, however, unlike last time, instead of going up down up down up down, I held it there and let her sit down gently, even though it was rather bumpy on the approach (we were getting thrown around quite a bit). Very interesting indeed.

So to conclude, a very enjoyable and successful flight, and next time, it will be a solo on this route. Today was made easier probably by the fact that I didn't have to change frequency all the time to Warton/Woodvale etc. I aint sure, but what's the consolidation - do I turn up and do a few circuits or do I just turn up and fly solo? I think it is the latter, which will introduce a new angle into the way of thinking :{ :D

Sorry for the length, I just had a lot to say!!

Safe flying,

Lee

:ok:

You are all right about how things get easier, and once again, thak you for your kind words. I only hope the Northern route goes better than it did last time.

adwjenk

21st Jan 2005, 16:16

Hey well done

Glad you had a succesful trip.

I can curtainly relate to the importance of folding a map correctly!!!

Hope your next flight goes well and hope you go solo!!!!!

Best of luck

ADWJENK

Penguina

21st Jan 2005, 16:53

Cool!

I would not have been allowed to land in a 15 knot crosswind during my training, I'm impressed!

PLEASE PLEASE fold your map as small as you need, then clip it in place at the sides to stop it from unfolding.

Can't believe your instructor didn't make you do this the first time!! Did you have it completely unfolded flapping around the place? No wonder it was hard work! :ugh:

Chequeredflag

23rd Jan 2005, 18:17

I've spent hours reading this thread, having just registered for the forum. To catch up on 33 pages is a "bridge too far"!, but from the pages that I have read I can see this will be a great forum to help me. I have just, at the age of 61, started on the long road to (hopefully) achieving my PPL, having just had my 5th hour at the East Midlands Flying School. I THINK these posts have given me some insight into the hard work ahead, but I did go in with my eyes wide open.

Being virtually retired, I have the time for two or three lessons per week, so continuity should be pretty good. A pal of mine flies "big 'uns" for BMI, and he's been suggesting I do this for a long while, and several mates have their own planes (Archers and a rather nice Malibu amongst them).

I've really enjoyed my time in the air so far, and having spent many, many hours on a Microsoft Flight Simulator at home, taking a real plane off myself for the first time was something else!! (I'm training on a PA28 Warrior - evidently at 15 stone and 6'2", I'm too big for the Cessna 152's)!! Charming........

Good flying to you all, and hopefully I'll get a lesson soon in smooth conditions!!

Aussie Andy

23rd Jan 2005, 18:21

Chequeredflag: good luck mate - and welcome aboard!

You really can learn a lot here on PPRuNe: don't be afraid to start a thread and ask a question - there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers! Seriously, over the years I have had hundreds of questions answered and it really does help to be able to talk over things that may be confusing or worrying you along the way.

Make sure you let everyone know how you are progressing!

Andy :ok:

Chequeredflag

23rd Jan 2005, 19:05

Thanks Andy - will do. I'm off to Spain tomorrow (testing race cars), back on Thursday, and have two lessons on Friday, and three per week thereafter! Busy, busy, busy.....and there's all that blooming reading/revising as well!!

Aussie Andy

23rd Jan 2005, 20:33

and there's all that blooming reading/revising as well!! My advice on the exams is:[list=1]
do them ASAP to get them out of the way
start with Air Law as you'll be pleased to have this one behind you, then weather...
get the Confuser and/or use the online practice test service (will post URL later when I can remember it)
[/list=1]
Have fun with the cars!

Andy

Yes, I was thinking of www.airquiz.com - excellent!

Blinkz

23rd Jan 2005, 22:35

http://www.airquiz.com is the online PPL question bank, I found it very useful so far. also the PPL confuser is good too.

Good luck with your PPL, feel free to ask anything you want. We're here to help each other (and swap fun stories :D )

mazzy1026

24th Jan 2005, 11:28

Chequeredflag

Welcome aboard and thanks for joining us. I will echo the above advice, the PPL confuser is a MUST have. Airquiz takes the strain out of marking your own questions and gives you an instant reply, which is relatively cheap. I actually have a database which I built, which works in a similar way to Airquiz - the only problem is, I dont have any questions, as they are copyrighted and I aint got the patience to write my own!

Best of luck,

Lee :ok:

Hampshire Hog

25th Jan 2005, 09:33

Welcome Chequeredflag, there's plenty on here historically, but also plenty of us still working towards that ultimate goal. Whatever frustrations you experience during your training, you can bet one of us will have been there!

Maz, glad to hear you had a better nav detail. I can't wait to get on to that now!

HH

Blinkz

25th Jan 2005, 17:09

Hey guys, not posted for a cpl of days since I've been busy flying! Finally the weather up here has played ball and have flown lots :D

Had a flight on friday, this was a navex from edinburgh, up to leuchars for a matz penatration and then a full stop landing at dundee. Main point of this flight was so I could see dundee as I will be going there for my QXC. Weather was nice and clear but the wind was doin summit werid. In the leuchars overheard I was at full power and best climb speed and only managing to climb 50ft/min! The approach to dundee was possiblly the worst conditions I've landed in, being thrown about all over the shop, and with a near max cross wind. Once I was below 300ft tho it smoothed out and I decided it was ok to land and nailed it (cross-wind landings rock!) After paying the fees and having a quick cuppa we were off again. On the return leg to edinburgh I started doing unplanned diversions. I've been worrying about these as I wasn't quite sure how to go about doing them. It turns out that they ain't hard at all lol. Just gotta do a decent guess-timate for track, drift, distance, g/s and then just fly it. I had to adjust em slightly as my first guesses weren't quite on but I arrived at where I wanted within a minute of when I wanted. Not bad for a first attempt! My height holding wasn't that good, but I partly blame the turbulence, but its one of my weaker sides, really need to work on it!

Flight yesturday was to Prestwick! Now for those of you that don't know most of the airlines use prestwick for circuit training, and yesturday was no difference. Outbound leg was nice and simple, out of the edinburgh zone to the west and them change to glasgow to get a FIS, they were busy so couldn't give us a zone clearence so we had to go round the outside. Radio calls were all ok, if a little slow as I thought about what to say lol. Height holding was much better this time and so was very pleased with that. When we arrived at kilmarnock we had to hold for 20mins, which was slightly annoying! There was a easyjet 737 doing circuits there which was an interesting sight. However an even better sight was an Atlantic airways 747 arriving and also procedding to do circuits :D When clearence was finally given I gingerlly entered the zone approaching a right hand base leg for runway 31. This was the circuit of the 737 and so I had to join number two to him. The 747 was doing a left hand ciruit and just touched down as I enterd the circuit.

Apart from having to hold for 20mins Prestwick is a very friendly place. The flight back was uneventful. Good height holding, and glasgow were nice and let us transit their zone.

Today was an ok day, so went up to practice some VOR stuff, a brush up for stuff I did before and to do radio fixes. This was a good plan until we got 20mins outside of edinburgh to find out the VOR kit in the tommy is buggered lol. Got a vague idea about radio fixing so will practice that in MS FS2004 later (probably the only usful thing that can be done with it lol) after that did a PFL and then headed back to edinburgh, ending the day with a greaser of a landing :ok:

Hopefully off to glasgow tomorrow for a zone transit and a approach and go-around, then some more unplanned diversions.