Southampton-3
 

unfortunately a future with just those small regional carriers will not be enough for SOU to survive long term and therefore it’s essential they entice carriers that also add a few sun/city destinations. If you honestly believe the likes of EZY will continue to downsize once this pandemic is over, you are very much mistaken as pent up demand for short haul travel will be enormous and our nation will want to travel abroad to warmer climes again. In fact MOL stated recently that he expects demand to return to pre COVID levels during 2022, albeit with yield levels taking further time to recover!

This fixation with easyJet and Southampton keeps coming back. It’s not happening - certainly not within any time frame that any of us can foresee.

There may be other developments. But this isn’t one of them.

Red Four

An answer to your last sentence may be shortly forthcoming.

Albert Hall

not saying it is but how on earth do you know otherwise? Ryanair are happy to add ALC and
PMI at MME with route duplication just up the road at NCL so why not something similar at SOU. This extension and the millions being spent is certainly not to entice a watered down version of Flybe to come back!

Red Four

That's certainly the way I see it.

Whats 15m between friends!😃

The fixation with attracting Easy to Southampton with the runway starter strip by certain contributors to this blog seems to have reached a new high!
The runway plans which are shortly to be assessed by EBC are at best a small improvement to the airports capabilities.With the Covid on going situation and potential long recovery process , all that SOU can hope for is survival at a much reduced operating time. The chances of Easy or any other LCC coming to SOU are very small at best. It's difficult to see with even the runways possible extension an international future for the airport,to survive short time the best bet might be domestic flights with a selection of training,light movements and limited opening hours.

Deja vu
 

And so once again this thread resorts to armchair experts spouting absolute nonsense off the back of bits and pieces they can find on the internet. All of which of course is completely negative. If any of you seriously think any company, let alone one owned by a pension fund(!), would invest millions of shareholders money without a sizable business case you are a moron. God forbid a thread dedicated to an airport that is making a multi million pound investment during one of the biggest downturns of the aviation industry is talked about positively(!).

I always view this thread from a distance and comment occasionally on the airport and its goings on. SOU has clearly had its setbacks recently and will take a while to climb back up. However if the runway extension is built, I don’t understand why the airport can’t have its own ambitions and with the considerable investment being made, look to attract some of the more popular carriers. Other regional airports seem to provide the regular holiday destinations so why can’t SOU. A large base set up by a LCC will always be limited due to apron space available but it’s definitely feasible for a select choice of profitable routes, just my observation from a far

Rivet Joint

While not quite the language I would use, I'm inclined to agree. Not that private companies never do anything stupid, but it seems unlikely that SOU would spending the money without an expectation of pay-off. Certainly training and light a/c movements won't pay for the infrastucture required for an airport used for scheduled services.

Anybody know how long the planning permission would be valid for - I've got 4 years in the back of my head?

Oh I don't know... As an aviation professional I was staggered to watch how SH and COW destroyed FBE over its last 5 years with ridiculous plans that were never going to work. A public company (admittedly handicapped by JF's mad strategy) still choosing to write, and implement crazy business plans, with public and pension fund backing throughout. The chairman should have stopped it but he let it escalate. Picking a fight with LM on their home patch, where they could be relied on to fight to the death wasn't smart. COW rejecting a serious offer for FBE was the final curtain. The destruction of shareholder value was of its own making.

SWBKCB

Anybody know how long the planning permission would be valid for - I've got 4 years in the back of my head?[/QUOTE]
3 years I would say, unless business/commercial is different from private/residential.

SWBKCB

Agreed there are exceptions to the rule, but very rarely when it comes to largescale pension funds. The amount of hurdles and due diligence involved is extensive, and lets not forget SOU was up until recently known for being massively tight when it came to investing in it's airside operations. It is pretty daft therefore to suggest that they are now loosening the purse strings on a whim. Clearly that is not how they conduct their business. Light aircraft and general aviation is also clearly not of interest to SOU, in fact if I recall correctly the flight school that was based there was asked to leave and ended up at BOH. I believe planning is valid for 3 years usually, but seeing as the MD is on record as stating that £15m is already set aside for the works, hopefully that means they will get on with it straight away.

V12

Very good point, although I think BE are a special case. They are also small fry compared to the billion dollar companies that own SOU. As you say, the individual egos of JF and COW would appear to be the architects of BEs demise, I am not sure individuals have as much control at companies like the ones that own SOU (you would hope).

The big event i think is on the 17th!

Noting Wizz have opened a one aircraft base at CWL with 9 routes, this could be a decent option for SOU with a few sun routes post runway extension (assuming approval). Wizz have already stated they want UK expansion with more bases added so wouldn’t rule it out!

Would SOU runway be long enough for an A321/A321 neo to say Tenerife?

Southampton airport owners have milked the profits and now the cash cow has has been euthanised. All a bit to late this runway extension stuff and if the local Council are not backing it, trying to gain planning permission might well be too late? That is the problem with disconnected multi national owners. Terminal, apron and runway extensions should have been in place years ago, but whilst the cow was producing cash, why bother?

Good points
The runway application will be rejected and frankly it would make little difference in the short to medium term considering the impact of covid on aviation.
Other contributors have proposed old chestnuts like Easy and now Wizz coming to the airport,I'm afraid these are non starters.Even with a runway extension the sun routes would be limited to the Med,Tenerife would not be reachable with a full load.The airport owners missed the bus years ago for airport expansion,with capacity opened up at other regional airports Southampton future looks very uncertain.
​

Can we assume that this is a personal viewpoint and that we can retain faith in the legal planning process?

stewyb

I agree Wizz are probably now the most likely to open some routes after the works are completed. Easy are probably still the best match for SOU but Wizz seem to be riding out the Covid crisis much better than them. Wizz’s links to Eastern Europe would also be perfect to serve the huge Easter European population in the south. I happen to know quite a few who travel as far as Luton to use Wizz. They are clearly also targeting sun routes that use to be served by Thomas Cook.

in terms of Southampton council objecting to the planning, this is hardly surprising when there are militant labour Councillors in charge that are ruining the city by making it only possible to get in and out on a bicycle. Their so called green city charter basically means they have tied their hands behind their back when it comes to supporting anything that goes against the deluded Eco-mentalists. The ridiculous thing is that they partly objected on the basis of noise despite the fact SOU have offered to implement a noise cap which currently doesn’t even exist. Also ironic that they are happy for the docks to start building a fifth cruise terminal when the boats are one of the biggest polluters in the city. There is still a glimmer of hope that Eastleigh Council will agree to give planning as it means jobs for their constituents but it is looking more likely that SOU will have to go down the appeal route. I fully expect SOU to win on appeal as the extension is crucial to their business and they have done enough to address noise/environmental concerns.

It's a shame that Southampton hasn't approved it. I still don't understand why the airport doesn't approach the issue differently, as a way of keeping it's existing operators planes fuller - this is an environmental benefit. If they avoid talking about 320's and 737's then the discussion becomes keeping existing business sustainable with an extension. I don't understand their thinking. Telling everyone they're going to attract more planes, louder planes, bigger planes is creating their own problems locally.

Good point Rivet Jet on the sou cruise terminal. Cruise/shipping in general is one of the worst polluters of carbon ever! Cruise industry is probably throwing money at the council. Double standards!!

Is the cruise industry throwing money at the council? I thought that the cruise industry existed offshore and famously didn't pay taxes anywhere. No fuel duty, no VAT, no social security levies, next to no corporation tax.

It's a manner of speaking. I don't mean literally. The associated infrastructure and businesses supporting cruise passengers must be massive in and around Southampton - I'm thinking hotels, shops, restaurants, transport, before and after their journey etc etc... it's more that the council have dollar signs in their vision when making decisions about a cruise terminal (ignoring pollution) but don't veiw SOU's runway in the same way (despite the lower emissions of aircraft versus cruise industry)

What you say about cruise ships and pollution is certainly true in respect of most of the older ships but massive steps are being made to tackle this problem with most new build ships having much cleaner propulsion systems.

Planning decision delayed until 2021 (no date)...Southampton Airport to submit additional info...

inOban

It's worse than that, tax payer money is being used to build the new terminal. Whilst it looks like it is going to have shore power it is a bit ironic that the council are happy for a fifth cruise terminal and all its associated polution but not a small extension to its airport's runway.

Shamrock7seal: Good point, I guess the cruise industry does contribute more to the city. Surely any aspirational city requires a successful airport though. I guess it is indicative of the truly mad world we find ourselves in where double standards apparently don't exist.

Jamesair1: That is true but there is a brand new one in at the moment that has had smoke pouring out of it for a few days now. It seems the shipping industry is supported whereas aviation is blamed for everything. If it was supported better maybe there would be more investment in developing hydrogen/electric planes.

southside bobby

It is just going to go on and on ,and the longer it goes on then there will be more opposition,and less appetite for any airline to commit to SOU. The pressure of new needed housing will transmit to selling the airport land for development.

Curious - Southampton has appeared in the drop-down menu on ba.com within the last few days. Anyone know what's afoot?

No idea but have seen rumours of a U.K. airport running a summer seasonal programme with BA Cityflyer!?

Loganair code share with BA Loganair fly to SOU

Pessimistic - BA codeshare on some existing routes - maybe Loganair/Blue Islands? But not sure how that would benefit BA, the only obvious connections being to Aer Lingus via DUB/MAN(assuming the latter goes ahead).
Optimistic - BA Cityflyer flying some weekend sun routes next summer as they have from other airports - ALC/AGP/PMI/FAO, possibly Greece too?
Up in the clouds - BA Cityflyer basing a few E170/190's flying a mix of European city and sun routes.

Regarding the second scenario, while they'll never be able to offer LCC fares, BACF are probably best placed for flying any longer routes at least off the current runway - their LCY spec (i.e. powerful) E-Jets manage LCY-JSI and similar non stop. Believe they are limited to ~75-80 seats or so, but the 200m runway advantage at SOU vs LCY would probably allow a full 98 passengers on their E190. In fact, I remember it being quoted that FlyLolo were limited to 97 seats on the Flybe E195 which would support this assumption.

Looking at the third it initially seems absurd, but business travel is predicted to recover very slowly BACF may find an excess of capacity at LCY, even accounting for the leisure routes that have grown in recent years there. Outside of SOU there are not many airports that do not have any significant LCC competition on the main european routes, and the runway length works in its favour in this sense to maintain this. In this purely hypothetical scenario, I can't see them not wanting a slice of the major domestic and Irish routes - EDI, GLA, BHD, DUB so it could spell bad news for the likes of Loganair and Eastern.

BA City Flyer 11+ weekend routes from Southampton for summer 2021.

As reported on twitter: https://twitter.com/HeadForPoints/status/1336617753223041031?s=19
​​

• Berlin – starts 2nd May, Sunday out, Friday back

• Edinburgh – starts 16th May, Sunday out, Friday back

• Bergerac – starts 15th May, weekends plus Tuesday in peak season

• Faro – starts 1st May

• Florence – starts 1st May

• Ibiza – starts 2nd May

• Limoges – starts 15th May

• Malaga – starts 1st May

• Mykonos – starts 16th May

• Nice – starts 15th May

• Palma – starts 1st May

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/1...routes-coming/

Great news for the airport - any ideas on how many a/c will be required each weekend?!?

BA
 

Some very good news for SOU! The following seems to be bookable at the moment (some duplicate information from above...). All appear to be E190 operated, although some of the flight times seem a little lethargic for a jet (SOU-FAO is 3hrs!).

Berlin - out Sun/return Fri (positioning flight)
Bergerac - Tues/Sat/Sun
Faro - Sat
Florence - Sat/Sun
Edinburgh - out Sun/return Fri (positioning flight)
Ibiza - Sat/Sun
Limoges - Sat
Malaga - Sat/Sun
Mykonos - Sun
Nice - Sat
Palma - Sat/Sun

Looks like 3 aircraft needed Sat and 2 on Sun (the Edinburgh positioning flight departs in the morning).

looks like they’ve used LCY block times, should be at least 15 mins faster to/from SOU versus the odd routings in and out of LCY

Flybe's EMB 195 sat 118 pax so the JSI flights done for FlyLoLo were an awful payload penalty at 97 seats - and 1 or 2 flights still had to tech stop IIRC...

Someone mentioned above if an A321NEO can do TFS from SOU - answer is nope. Not even with the planned starter strip. The A321 has a higher risk of tail strike.
It can operate in/out of Skiathos but it will usually Tech stop on the way home.
An A320 maybe able to do SOU to Greece or the Canaries likely with a payload penalty of around 15-20 seats less.

The BACF program from SOU looks rather nice for summer 21.
Pray we have some normality back for our travel abroad to the Med by early summer, but if we don't then that lot will not happen in any quantity.

Needs around 3 aircraft both days -- unless W patterns are going to be happening>?
But W's on a SAT or a SUN originating at LCY are an issue with the LCY pm/am airport closures on those days.
So you cannot do LCY-JMK-SOU-JMK-LCY for instance.

The main major historical weekend charterer of BACF was Bar Head Travel in Scotland who did loads of holiday flights from GLA EDI and ABZ, but sadly they are not renewing their own BACF charter flight series for next summer after having to cancel all of their S20 programme.
This, I guess means BACF are going alone and having a stab at SOU...

The only other sunshine flights are with TUI packages to Palma on TUE and SATS (Volotea flying)
TUI cancelled the IBZ and MAH series.

A bit of good news for a change;
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/189...ropean-cities/