Emperors new clothes?

Whilst SOU is one of my local airports and I support flying from there where I can, one cannot sugar coat the facts anymore clearly as rounded up by the post of RW20 which has attracted some rather silly commentary.
We are grown ups here, and I do get it that when one gets excited when new SOU routes get announced and plenty of ''oohing & ahhing'' but please do step back and have a reality check.
To mention there is nothing to see here is simply daft.

SOU's and EXT's bosses have both openly said their airports are in danger of closing. We don't want that, but they cannot ignore that.

The announcement of BA's summer SOU programme was a joy to see, truly uplifting for the Industry, but - I too have to concur, I cannot foresee Summer 2021 leisure routes operating with any certainty, if at all.
This applies not just to SOU but to everywhere else - BOH, BRS, EXT etc...
We will be fortunate if we can all get a Staycation - should UK restrictions allow us.

KLM will come back once they can, and when we can all travel again.
Easy jet hopefully too - We hope for the next winter's Ski season, the demand is huge, but who knows for sure at this time if we will fly.
BA sunshine routes - Again we know the public demand is there. If plenty of advance bookings are made then BA has cash in the bank.
Loganair and Eastern - even Flybe2 if they start - they will have to try and get by with small pickings on some feeder routes for now.

Reality check folks -
Basically almost all air travel (both Business & leisure) and the Package holiday business has been lost for nearly 12 months up to now.
No bumper bookings for Easter or Whitsun 2020, Very little Summer 2020. No Winter Sun 2020-2021, and No 2020-2021 Ski season.
Now it's looking like no Easter and Whitsun 2021 - and as for Summer 2021 we have not a clue as yet.
How any airline or tour company can survive this much longer surely beggars belief.
I was in this business as many of you know from the early days of 1972, and I, knowing what margins we had to cover costs, let alone make any money -
I cannot see a lot of blue skies right now....

Let's not be mean to each other please - Frankly don't shoot down a messenger who frankly has just faced the hard reality of the mess we are in.

Context
 

ROG makes good points - Here’s the latest Eurocontrol summary and forecast for 2021 A global view - its worth a read:

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/de...t-28012021.pdf

Well summed up rog747. I have no issue with any of the contributors on this thread, & am somewhat mystified by the amount of criticism flying to & fro between certain individuals. Everyone has valid viewpoints (sometimes over emphasised, maybe) & less valid ones, too; & all contributions are of interest to me. In short, I don't quite understand the degree of personal antipathy which is , sometimes, evident here.

‘EBC need to confirm that this is not going to happen in the present covid climate,and allow some of the over speculative contributors to this post to get on with the life’

i agree about need for balanced realistic comments as we are very much in hard times and flying passengers for leisure or business could well be very restricted all year, but the above statement by the individual that seems to cause most annoyance on a forum that is for aviation professionals and people very much interested in that seems very strange to actually be demanding the council turn down the runway application. Surely if there ever was a time for that runway extension it is now to help drive route regeneration once all this hopefully is past us.

EBC need to follow due process and the established guidlines or they'll end up on their backsides...

Before Xmas, EBC requested that the airport go away and refine the application, of which they have done and submitted again this week!

I'm rather cynical about suggestions that SOU or EXT might close forever as airports. Places like Lydd, Cambridge, Norwich, Coventry, Blackpool Humberside, Teesside, Swansea, Prestwick, Dundee, Derry and others seem to carry on somehow

Perhaps a debt restructuring event might see the current owner lose their ownership to creditors. Perhaps the airport might close for a month while the airport under new ownership is relicenced by the CAA. But would SOU or EXT airports really close permanently with the consent of local and national Govt ? Seems dubious...

kcockayne

At last some contributors have a more rational approach to the Covid/aviation crisis. There are some on this SOU blog that continue to remain blinkered to reality,resulting in Personal attacks which dilute there argument. Southampton future at best is precarious ,I hope it survives having been following its progress from pre concrete days.
These are challenging times,may be some airports won't survive,aviation will never return to the recent past

rog747

I think you need to read my post again as I clearly said “constructive criticism” is welcome. The issue with this individual is that he has been essentially copying and pasting the same negative post for more than a year now and there is more than enough grounds to suggest that the posts are not intended to engage or further debate. They are mean spirited statements mocking people for daring to have positive outlooks on life with the intention to antagonise rather than contribute to healthy debate. This behaviour is the epitome of trolling and results in forums losing all of its best posters and therefore I think it is more than justified for mods to ban individuals who engage in this behaviour. If not then such forums cease to exist.

With all issues you need to look at the source of the problem, for you to ignore the fact people understandably have good grounds to have lost patience with this Individuals destructive impact on this thread is very strange indeed. People have tried to ignore it for many months as most normal humans would give up trying to antagonise people after not succeeding but this individual is clearly very troubled or there is an agenda against SOU. I can only assume that you do not appreciate the long standing nature of this individuals behaviour and the fact that his posts are cut and paste jobs. Are you suggesting he is right that the airport is doomed and should be closed down and turned into housing? Should all us just subscribe to his way of thinking and stop posting on the thread? People should lead a glass half full life at the best of times, let alone in the times that we find ourselves in. For you to take the view that you should target the positive contributors on here rather than the troll is quite astounding and personally I think you should take a look at yourself in the mirror. If people on here we’re suggesting pie in the sky stuff like routes to America or a runway to accommodate the A380 yes perhaps a reality check might be required. However, all the comments are well reasoned and justified off the back of a large stream of good news.

On the Covid position, is there really any need to mention it? Should positive news really need to be negated by it? Should positive thoughts by posters really be tempered by its existence? We all know it exists, we all know it is sticking around for a while yet, we all know plans are subject to change. Despite all this the fact so many operators want to open routes at SOU and the airport still want to invest £15m is cause for celebration and positive discussion.

With Southampton port the top cruise port in Europe it makes no sense to have a airport with short runway and lack of terminal space.The airport and port should go hand in hand to offer the best service,and with the airport with the upgraded infrastructure it would attract airlines from much further afield and passengers would use the airfield as not far from airport to the port.

the problem Yeo is where do you put such an airport? The current airport is surrounded by housing & development on 3 sides. There is space for a very short runway extension and even that is under threat from objectors

yeo valley

Top cruise port based on what? Passenger numbers wise, it ranks 6th in Europe.

BACF will have approx 6 acft flying ex SOU, SAT/SUN...High yield to be had from the relatively affluent area too, good move

Assuming the slow and gradual release of restrictions plus the slow progress of vaccinations in Europe permits European travel.

A double dose of vaccine, still means you can carry Covid abroad. The Brits may be vaxed up, but the Europeans, maybe not.

Add in any mutations........

Summer 2021 should be treated with caution.

Kestrel

In summer peak there’s also EGC-SOU-EGC on a Tuesday.

Southampton Airport to temporarily close on weekends
 

From the Echo - Airport bosses have confirmed that from February 6 to March 7 all weekend operations including flights will be suspended.

It comes as during this period the airport will only open Monday to Friday until 17.15 or 20.30 on some days.

Airport bosses said "this is an extremely challenging period".

The news comes as new documents revealed at the end of last week airport bosses stressed the need to expand the runway in order to attract new airlines in the future, prior to the onset of the pandemic, passenger numbers at the airport fell by 90% due to the collapse of Flybe. Now COVID-19 has exacerbated this situation further with the suspension of routes and reduced passenger demand due to the travel restrictions in place. This is an extremely challenging period for the entire aviation industry."

Reported that apparently any emergency medical flights from the C.Is will use RAF Odiham during weekends this month.

fanrailuk

Half expecting a similar announcement from Loganair 😂

rog747

Hopefully arrangements will include transfer to hospitals close to Odiham, rather than a long road journey to Southampton. Has anyone at SOU looked at the innovative method used by Bournemouth to handle out of hours medevac flights? Rather than the expense of ATC they provide an Air/Ground service to accomodate arrivals/departures. Plenty of local volunteers out there with the required ROCC to provide an A/G service and can role up at short notice to assist, I'll even volunteer.

We are presumably talking about Bournemouth. If so could be various reasons, radar (ie provided by a separate ATCO) probably not provided but ATC still provided by a single ATCO in the tower providing Aerodrome and Approach control. Don’t confuse this with non ATC Air/Ground service. As for a circling approach, if inbound from the east (?) flew 26 approach to break cloud then visual circuit to land 08 if the tailwind on 26 above limits? Probably saving a few minutes flying time over flying a full 08 instrument approach procedure from overhead.

There's some chat on Twitter saying that an Eastern route to Gibraltar could be announced imminently. Apparently Eastern are basing an E170 in Gib for Summer 21 with flights to BHX and SOU rumoured. I reckon they'll be announced tomorrow. Gibraltar is now on the airport's website and route map as a destination but with no days of operation showing yet.
Credit to SeanM1997 on twitter for the initial info.

Won’t last long with Easterns reliability

The Nutts Mutts

I saw on comment on the airports spotter/nostalgia fb page about how the two regional france routes launched last week seemed like a too sensible decision for Eastern. I can only assume someone from the company read the same thing and decided that a spectacular return to form was needed! :}

On a more serious note, while I'm not sure an E170 is a particularly economical aircraft for the job, in light of the current situation I think I can see some sense in the route. With all the uncertainty about borders, vaccines and the like, Gibraltar is could be in a very good position to attract more British visitors than usual this summer. No border woes, and over 1/3 of their population vaccinated already. Perhaps the local govt have offered some incentives for Eastern to fly some routes from there to capitalise on this, which might make the aircraft choice seem more viable? It has been noted that Birmingham has also reappeared in the booking engine, which is also currently unserved from the rock...

What do you mean by no border woes?

Gibraltar is joining Schengen

You have to pass Schengen controls on arrival at Gib rather than at the actual border crossing

SOU-GIB is now announced and on sale. Flights on a Monday and Friday, Embraer 190. Interestingly, the aircraft will be operating from SOU in the morning, doing a W-pattern to BHX during the day, then returning to SOU at night. So there's potentially an E190 being based for the summer, unless it's positioning in on the GIB days.

Which begs the question what does it do the other 5 days a week!

I wouldn't be surprised to see ALC appearing at some point.

The Nutts Mutts

Glad to see the good news train keep rolling :ok:

The airports press release seems to confirm that Eastern are basing an E190 at Southampton. Hopefully they'll be able to recruit some ex.Flybe Embraer crew locally for it.

“This is also a new destination for the airport and a positive step forward given the challenging conditions our entire industry continues to face. We look forward to working with Eastern to develop this service further and welcoming the first passengers later this year and indeed the basing of an Eastern Airways’ Embraer 190 aircraft to make this route and others possible.”

I wonder where else they'll look at? Alicante seems like the most obvious omission, along with Verona (popular with tour operators and attracted some rather high fares). Beyond that maybe some of the longer French routes - Avignon, Perpignan, Toulon, Bastia. Further out the box would be trying a new unserved market - Croatia has grown significantly in popularity since Flybe served Split and Dubrovnik from Southampton about 10 years ago, as an example.

Perhaps they already have enough of there own crews to operate on the 190.

Does Eastern plan to have any tie up with BA city flyer? Could be a good partnership if risk is shared for expansion domestically and to sunshine spots. How many ERj-190’s can SOU take simultaneously? They’re going to be rather full at weekends 😂

I doubt it. The BA/Eastern deal on the Saab didn’t seem great and then went to Loganair and it seems BA and Loganair have already signed codeshares.

shamrock7seal

will be tight for E90’s if the schedules remain as is. Up to 3 BA on Sat & Sun, 1 Eastern and potentially 1 KLM. 4 stands available!

If you include stand 14 then it’s 5.

Whilst we are on the subject of BA and E90’s, one has just gone over head taking the saints team up to NCL. Even more odd is that it’s using a Jota call sign. Work that one out.

Appears one of the Jota 146s is off so guess they’ve hired Cityflyer to cover a run

Interesting, thanks for clarifying. They do seem to have a monopoly on the football charters, I guess that doesn't keep them that busy during the week though.

stewyb

There are planned to be 6 BA Cityflyer 190s on the ground on Saturday night at SOU, confirmed by 6 scheduled arrivals on Saturday evening. And 6 slot one departures on Sunday morning; Florence, Ibiza, Palma, Edinburgh, Bergerac, Mykonos.

Question;
Is the 190, being a bit shorter than the 195, able to use more stands than the 195 was?

No, the tail is still too tall for nose-in parking on stands 6-12. I think there'll be a lot of towing for overnight nose-out parking on those stands once the pax have disembarked.