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-   -   Jet2-5 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/600427-jet2-5-a.html)

paully 3rd Nov 2017 20:39

Musket..

Dont jump to conclusions, read comments back on the previous page and all will become clear.....:=

southside bobby 3rd Nov 2017 21:14

Yes STN is obviously in Essex (but only just) & is a very large county but to reiterate EXS are marketing well beyond & to a huge potential market,it is currently their only Southern base.
It appears as well as identifying a market they are currently reshaping it to some extent in the South.

Flying Wild 3rd Nov 2017 21:30


Originally Posted by paully (Post 9945777)
I flew with them last month and can`t say I noticed anything different about the PA`s, or maybe I wasn`t listening.

Lucky you. They changed in the last week or so.

paully 3rd Nov 2017 21:45

What do they do differently now?..not going with them again until May

Johnny [email protected] Pants 4th Nov 2017 15:53


What do they do differently now?
Talk to you like you're a class of 6 year olds.

daz211 5th Nov 2017 16:23

Jet2.com has filed planned Airbus A321 operational network for 2018, mainly based at London Stansted. Planned 212-seater A321 operation from February 2018
I’m assuming it’s Titan Airways.

southside bobby 5th Nov 2017 18:09

Yes first A321 service appears to be 9.2.18 initially & then over 3 routes..Grenoble, Lanzarote & Tenerife South.
Expands from 25.3.18 on selected days over 14 routes.
Uptick of 23 seats per flight over the B738.Perhaps goes a little way to EXS`s stated 60% capacity increase for Summer`18 at STN.
Will be good to see the AWC (assuming) A321 working out of STN next year for the first time rather than being based away at MAN as this year.
EXS used an AWC B757 from STN this Summer I wonder if this is to continue in 2018 & if a rumoured AWC A330 will make an appearance for them?.
I note EXS have now officially stated they are taking ramp handling in house @ STN & are advertising for 160 staff for the operation.

southside bobby 5th Nov 2017 18:37

In addition to 160 ramp staff, EXS advertising for 50 pax service agents for the terminal at STN.
Regarding the A321 ops over Grenoble,Lanzarote & Tenerife South could it be reflecting some extra bookings too with the demise of MON.

Plane.Silly 8th Nov 2017 11:30

With the high court ruling that Monarch can't sell the slots, this is probably mixed news for Jet2.

Good?: Everyone talks about the Gatwick slots, which of course, Jet2 don't fly from....yet.
With the slots now in the pool, and on seemingly decent leisure route times, could this be the nudge Jet2 needs to move south of the M25?

Bad: Lots of slots at MAN/BHX they would presumably be happy to bid on. Now they can't get their hands on them, restricting their growth for a bit longer.

chaps1954 8th Nov 2017 12:24

Don`t think anybody has ever had to by slots at Manchester and don`t think it is a good idea,
to be honest why would they ever need to bid for them as they are the most likely to get them along with Easyjet

Plane.Silly 8th Nov 2017 12:32

Granted, MAN/BHX are nowhere near as full as LGW, but it's not exactly saying "Theres tons of space here, come one, come all". I'd imagine there would be some decent slots that would have the potential to be auctioned.
Not all of them mind, Doubt anyone would be in need of the 11pm departures to Ibiza

pabely 8th Nov 2017 12:33


Good?: Everyone talks about the Gatwick slots, which of course, Jet2 don't fly from....yet.
With the slots now in the pool, and on seemingly decent leisure route times, could this be the nudge Jet2 needs to move south of the M25?
If the KPMG appeal fails also and they go back to the pool then Jet2 would be consider an new entry at LGW where 50% would be free, but would it not be better for UK Plc to have some fresh long haul Airlines?
I'm sure jonny public would like them at LGW to keep prices keen to Spain but if they do not have spare aircraft already committed to other based, it might pospone expansion at other bases.

mr_moose 8th Nov 2017 19:49

Jet2 would be mad not to bid for some slots at LGW, even if at the expense of some expansion elsewhere next summer. Once these slots are re-assigned, its unlikely that the opportunity will arise again where they are so many slots available.

daz211 8th Nov 2017 20:04

Mad not to, I’m not to sure
Jet2 are somewhat overwhelmed with how well it’s operation at STN has turned out from what I have heard they can’t meet demand as it is and would love to add more aircraft to the base.
They have so much confidence in STN they are on a mass recruitment drive and by 2019 they hope to double summer 2018 fleet.

southside bobby 8th Nov 2017 20:41

LGW short haul Med services (& other airports in the UK) almost certainly suffering over capacity witness the draw down by NAX & MON racking up projected losses of 120m before the plug was pulled.
Why would EXS want some of that at LGW at the present time when they are for example leasing in again next summer to cover some capacity @ STN where they project 60% growth in 2018 alone.
For economy of scale anyway EXS would require certainly the majority of the slots at huge outlay if bought & if from the allocation system the process is going to allocate them with different reasoning.
The airport/airline business is nothing but fluid & dynamic & no one can predict when slots will become available again but one way or another they certainly will.

Plane.Silly 9th Nov 2017 07:25


They have so much confidence in STN they are on a mass recruitment drive and by 2019 they hope to double summer 2018 fleet.
I'd love to see them try. They'll have 10 planes in operation for S18. I don't doubt they could meet double demand, but a 20 strong base in S19? when MAN for S18 will only have 18. Not to mention theres not enough slots/parking for them.

If They are chasing that demand, surely the LGW has to be given a chance to further capitalise on the London area

EK77WNCL 9th Nov 2017 08:33

5 A330, 5 738 might just about double it? They just need to find 5 A330's!

Plane.Silly 9th Nov 2017 08:53

If they didn't have their "Proud to fly Boeing" strapline on their adverts, acquiring A330's wouldn't have been a problem. Closest Boeing option would be the B788? Leasing 1/2 is fine, but surely they made their bed with Boeing?
Where would they get those from at short notice.

EK77WNCL 9th Nov 2017 09:00

They already have at least 2 Airbii with their name plastered on the side... Not to mention that about 0.000001% of their clientele will even notice, never mind care.

I don't think that strapline would preclude them operating their own A330's. Having said that, they might get tempted into a deal on some 767's, should they re-enter production. Are the terrible teen dreamliners still kicking about or have they been bought?

Plane.Silly 9th Nov 2017 09:22

I was under the impression the 767 program for passenger flights was finished, and that they were only making 767 freighters. That would have been the obvious choice, as Jet2 could use their B757 rated pilots to fly these as their share a lot of traits.

With the new 738's coming in, i would assume Jet2 are moving away from the 2nd hand market. But it raises a good point, the B752's won't last forever and a few years down the line, they'd need to consider alternatives

southside bobby 9th Nov 2017 09:51

Plane.Silly..
Not speaking for the poster you picked up on I would imagine tho the line regarding a doubling of the Summer fleet for 2019 over 2018 was a mis-type with the years.
It seems to be known that 2019 will be double the 2017 fleet/capacity & that further growth in 2018 is inhibited by lack of aeroplanes.
You may be wrong with the assumption that STN will lack parking space & slots by 2019 both items are being addressed by MAG.
Your remark that EXS are chasing demand is v possibly approaching the issue from the wrong direction,commentary would probably state they are creating demand (for their product).
Just as an aside & not a reflection within the EXS debate,the B767 pax variant may not be finished after all as apparently UAL have been "talking" to Boeing concerning a re-launch.Possibly come to nothing tho.

daz211 9th Nov 2017 10:46

Sorry I might not have been clear, I did mean 2019 but the fleet size is without the leased in aircraft so the aim is for 17 by summer 2019 I must add this is the aim and not guaranteed a lot can happen in a short time in this industry as we all know.
Also the capacity could be taken up buy outstation bases if 17 is not possible.

southside bobby 9th Nov 2017 11:06

daz211...
Apologies...Thanks for the update..I know as you say a lot can happen & invariably does but a projected 17 unit base for 2019 is great to hear.
I see that even as of now EXS are advertising for 210 staff consisting of ramp & pax agents for STN as they are going self handling.

daz211 9th Nov 2017 11:14

Southside no need for apologies
I didn’t make myself clear in my post.
As you mention going self handling at Stansted is a massive boost and a sign of overwhelming confidence in the base very exciting time ahead.

Plane.Silly 9th Nov 2017 11:35

@Southside / Daz

Thanks for the clarification. I did think 20 was a bit too much.
Self handling was inevitable given the size of the operation. They've done it at EMA and they only have 7, so it was only a matter of time. Still dead impressive given they started from nothing to 2nd largest by 2018/19

As for the 767 option, if UAL can coax Boeing back into it, i wouldn't be surprised to see a decent order come through from LS. All 34 738NG's would have been delivered by then so bring it on

Plane.Silly 16th Nov 2017 09:16

1/2 year results are in (to end of september) and Jet2 unsurprisingly are faring very well. Good news for its future

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...-strong-summer

Skipness One Echo 16th Nov 2017 12:38


Are the terrible teen dreamliners still kicking about or have they been bought?
Ethiopian took the bulk of them.
https://www.planespotters.net/produc...ist/Boeing/787


Thanks for the update..I know as you say a lot can happen & invariably does but a projected 17 unit base for 2019 is great to hear.
That's a Hell of an increase. Surely easyJet need to react or just walk away.

southside bobby 16th Nov 2017 14:57

Skipness One Echo...
You posit that surely EZY need to react to EXS at STN or just walk away...
The two co-exist well at MAN which points to some strategic thinking perhaps with MAG & they the airport operator are aware they can.I doubt MAG would work up EXS to lose EZY.
Anyways surely EZY & EXS are different marketing models to quite a large extent?.
The EZY domestic network at STN is valuable to EZY in any case.

Skipness One Echo 16th Nov 2017 15:12


The two co-exist well at MAN which points to some strategic thinking perhaps with MAG & they the airport operator are aware they can.I doubt MAG would work up EXS to lose EZY.
easyJet moved into MAN after starting at LPL, the MAN was positive and a little aggresive. Whereas STN has been static for ages, no real growth agenda and then sit back and let a new competitor drop 17 based units into what was GO's biggest base.
They don't seem to have a firm idea of what they want at STN IMHO.


I doubt MAG would work up EXS to lose EZY.
If EXS are serious about working about to 17 aircraft MAG would cut easy loose in an instant, they've not shown any drive to grow STN, indeed with going into SEN, quite the contrary IMHO. EXS look like being a better fit for STN it seems.

Plane.Silly 16th Nov 2017 15:26

Don't think MAG would drop EZY, given they provide arrivals/departures on inbound based aircraft, when airports are a bit busier. EXS have started to copy this, with ALC/PMI bases, but if MAG want to keep volume up, they'd be better placed to just prefer EXS to EZY when allocating slots,

southside bobby 16th Nov 2017 16:14

Skipness One Echo..
Simply disagree...With your second statement that MAG would cut loose EZY over a larger EXS base in an instant is loose thought,would you not reason that for MAG it is far more positive to work with both?.
A lot of funding was made available for MAG to acquire STN so win/win situations will be in play not win/lose.
You do not address the supposition that EZY & EXS are different marketing models to quite a large extent.
You also do not acknowledge that even if static the network inc the domestic network is a valuable asset to EZY & it would not be credible to have no presence at London`s third airport & to cede presence & market.
As to EZY`s historical growth at STN that is the result of forces within the London market generally & are easy to identify or well known over a number of years.
Both Ryanair & EZY are good fits in the STN network as is EXS which is bringing the third way to the London market untapped historically for many years.

chaps1954 16th Nov 2017 16:27

Totally agree southside

commit aviation 16th Nov 2017 19:26

Plane Silly:
Stansted doesn't allocate slots. EZY would have historic or Grandfather rights to the slots that it holds. They can't be redistributed in the way you suggest.

Skipness One Echo 16th Nov 2017 20:18

Please define the “third way to the London market untapped historically for many years”?
11 years as a marketing analyst, I must have missed something.

I am not having a go at EZY or LS so not sure what you are defending.

easyJet will drop a profitable route if it fails to maintain targets. The fact they maintain some domestic routes from STN is meaningless in itself. If the aircraft is better deployed elsewhere they will be moved. They even moved capacity from STN to SEN!

FRatSTN 16th Nov 2017 23:19

Indeed EZY did shift capacity to SEN... and as I remember arguing quite strongly at the time, in the medium to longer-term somebody would see STN as an opportunity. Needless to say that was ridiculed for STN being in the wrong place and that nobody dare go up against FR blah blah... Though Jet2 turned out to be that 'somebody' and it can be quite confidently said it's launch (since that's all any of us can go by so far) has been a resounding success.

Nonetheless STN is still a good earner for EZY and I wouldn't even argue that STN is any less yielding for them than any other London airport. Even if so, much of that would come down to intricate details of the commercial deals and growth incentives they have with those airports. The truth is, LGW and LTN is where their appetite for growth is at. In 10 years time however, they may get a poorer deal from those airports or a key change in the market could mean that appetite then moves to STN.

What I'm getting at... is that it's not a simple case of one airport being less profitable than another. It overwhelmingly depends on what the airline is actually willing to do at that airport and, in part, the relationship an airline has with a particular airport.

Plane.Silly 17th Nov 2017 07:29


Plane Silly:
Stansted doesn't allocate slots. EZY would have historic or Grandfather rights to the slots that it holds. They can't be redistributed in the way you suggest.
I'm not suggesting they just take them away from EZY, what i'm suggesting is that in the future, when other slots become available, that they have a preferred operator in LS. With this, MAG would give LS first dibs at these other slots.
Merely a suggestion if they want to work more with LS than EZY

chaps1954 17th Nov 2017 08:29

The slots are allocated by ACL not the airport and do you really think they would upset a major operator like that

Sholto Douglas 17th Nov 2017 08:52

Quite rights, the airport itself has the responsibility to run the airport but has no say in slot allocation. ACL are an independent company who are responsible for the allocation of slots at various UK and other world-wide airports.

garry8g 18th Nov 2017 10:39

Jet2's Newest Boeing 737-800, G-JZBD arrived direct from Seattle into Leeds at 07:20 this morning.

Suzeman 19th Nov 2017 10:58

Slots
 
Dear Mr Silly

As others have pointed out, the airports do not allocate slots - it is done by ACL.

So here's some light reading for you. This the Slot Allocation Statutory Instrument where you can see the EU regulation taken into British Law.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...Regulation.pdf

If you are still interested, the EU legislation is here

EUR-Lex - l24085 - EN - EUR-Lex

And just in case you don't know who ACL are (who do the slot allocation in the UK), here's their website

https://www.acl-uk.org/about-us/


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