PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Airlines, Airports & Routes (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/)
-   -   Flybe-9 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599822-flybe-9-a.html)

AirportPlanner1 19th Oct 2020 09:47

It’s a gamble and a half on account of where we are with Covid, but perhaps not as bonkers as it first looks. There are aircraft and crews sitting around all over the place which it must be assumed would now be available on much more favourable terms than was previously the case. There might even be a market for some subsidised flying from major hubs to slot-sit.

Is there precedent for an airline coming out of administration?

willy wombat 19th Oct 2020 09:50

Sky News just now running this story which it describes as one of the more improbable business stories of the year. Finished the report with the quote “God loves an optimist”. Couldn’t agree more.

ATNotts 19th Oct 2020 09:50


Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 (Post 10907273)
It’s a gamble and a half on account of where we are with Covid, but perhaps not as bonkers as it first looks. There are aircraft and crews sitting around all over the place which it must be assumed would now be available on much more favourable terms than was previously the case. There might even be a market for some subsidised flying from major hubs to slot-sit.

Is there precedent for an airline coming out of administration?

PanAm and Eastern to name two in the USA. Neither terribly successfully. Can't think of any resurrections in UK; in Belgium and Switzerland Brussels and Swiss were virtual reincarnations of Sabena and Swissair though.

runway30 19th Oct 2020 09:55


Originally Posted by Albert Hall (Post 10907268)
I notice that there's no mention of one very important element in any of the announcement - slots. As the business is being sold but not the legal entity, the Operating Licence and AOC will need to be obtained from scratch, so logically the same would apply on slots - unless anyone has any insight to the contrary?

If they haven't found a way to transfer the legal entity then I can't see the point. They will be starting a new airline using a name that they previously saw no value in and wanted to rebrand as Virgin. The strategic positioning of flybe was so confused that if they are planning more of the same, only smaller, it can't work.


davidjohnson6 19th Oct 2020 09:56

Buying assets from an administrator signals intent but there is a long way to go before fare paying (and profitable) passengers are in the air. Perhaps best not to get excited yet

TOM100 19th Oct 2020 10:17

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feat...ews_id=2044726

Alteagod 19th Oct 2020 10:17

I would not get over excited just yet. I think this will be a very very long road unless in the background its some kind of convoluted way to rebrand/buy Stobart Air.

willy wombat 19th Oct 2020 10:30

Can you imagine what the financial fitness meeting with the CAA will be like!

Jenny Tails 19th Oct 2020 10:32

What are the actual assets left? A website and is that about it?

southside bobby 19th Oct 2020 10:35

Overall voting control of a reconstituted company will be held by a Lucien Farrell described by another hedge fund manager as "unbelievably crafty" & who "takes no hostages".
Specialty & concentration being distressed companies but non-airline.
Let the game & gaming commence.

ATNotts 19th Oct 2020 10:36


Originally Posted by willy wombat (Post 10907297)
Can you imagine what the financial fitness meeting with the CAA will be like!

If they have the finance behind them them then shouldn't be an issue. If it's smoke and mirrors I imagine the regulator will see through them.

Life of Leisure 19th Oct 2020 11:04

Return of Flybe
 
According to the BBC the Flybe brand and remaining assets have been purchased by one of its former shareholders Thyme Opco. The article says operations could restart next year.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54596915


caaardiff 19th Oct 2020 11:08

Am I right in thinking they don't appear to have any of the key assets left.... aircraft? Admittedly there are probably a number of aircraft on the used market that may now come cheap. Any updates on where the previous aircraft are? Did they all find new homes?
There's the added complication of now having to go up against a stronger Loganair and to a point Eastern. I suspect Eastern will be the one to suffer in this though.
Could there be any link to Virgin again? Didn't Virgin pull out because of Flybe's finances? If the finances are in better shape they may regain interest, especially with MAN growing as a base.

virginblue 19th Oct 2020 11:08


Originally Posted by Albert Hall (Post 10907268)
I notice that there's no mention of one very important element in any of the announcement - slots. As the business is being sold but not the legal entity, the Operating Licence and AOC will need to be obtained from scratch, so logically the same would apply on slots - unless anyone has any insight to the contrary?

Where in Flybe's main markets would slots be an issue? You don't have to buy slots, you simply apply for them if an aiport is slot-regulated and get them allocated. There is only a handful of airports in Europe where, contrary to that general rule, slot-trading takes place. I assume that LHR and LCY will not return as these airports were never their core business. Few of the other airports they served were slot-regulated or even (seriously) slot-constrained (DUS and AMS) and thus subject to slot-trading (which, on the continent, other than in the UK, is illegal anyway as there slots are seen as a common good rather than the property of an airline), but I assume they will stick to flying around the British Isles in the beginning. Even if they were interested in serving slot-constrained airports, COVID19 has taken care of that problem as for the foreseeable future there will be spare capacity at once busy airports.

SWBKCB 19th Oct 2020 11:11


I assume that LHR and LCY will not return as these airports were never their core business.
But if they hold slots for these airports they could be considered as an assett which could be sold - certainly once upon a time, not so sure now. As mentioned above, not sure what else is left, assett wise.

virginblue 19th Oct 2020 11:18


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 10907323)
But if they hold slots for these airports they could be considered as an assett which could be sold - certainly once upon a time, not so sure now. As mentioned above, not sure what else is left, assett wise.

IIRC, most of the slots BE held at LHR were remedy slots that can only be used for specific routes once served by british midland.Therefore, they would be of no commercial value. I don't think that sots at LCY were outright traded in the past. Even if, I doubt that in the current situation they would attract buyers willing to cough up serious dough for them.

southside bobby 19th Oct 2020 12:04

Farrell/Cyrus & Sir Richard/Virgin have history as the hedge fund also helped Sir Richard set up Virgin America back in 2005.

Bigt 19th Oct 2020 12:26

What is left to buy? No aircraft, no engineering hangar, no routes....

Wickerbill 19th Oct 2020 12:30

..no AOC, no operating licence...


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:00.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.