PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Airlines, Airports & Routes (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/)
-   -   Ryanair-10 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599821-ryanair-10-a.html)

DublinPole 21st Sep 2017 19:07

Indeed but the problem is there is a pile load of people in the British Media who are treating this very different because it's Ryanair and have it in for them, some of which have already been sued before for printing untruths about Ryanair.

If the exact same happened with another airline it would get very little coverage, the amount of flack Jacobs has got in the Mail and the invasion of his privacy however is pretty disgusting.

01475 21st Sep 2017 19:13


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9899685)
If the exact same happened with another airline it would get very little coverage, the amount of flack Jacobs has got in the Mail and the invasion of his privacy however is pretty disgusting.

Really? Apart from through insolvency the only airline that has ever had problems on a similar scale has been BA and the press certainly haven't ignored it when it's happened!

The actual effect has probably been felt by something like 100,000 UK citizens, and every UK citizen that had a Ryanair booking in the next few months has suffered fear. Newspapers don't often get to print a story about something that's affected that many people!

DublinPole 21st Sep 2017 19:18

BA was a much bigger scale than this as far as UK flights are concerned.

How many UK flights are Ryanair cancelling a day? About 10? How many were BA cancellng a day? A whole schedule of hundreds.

How much notice did those BA customers get? A day or two. How much notice did Ryanair fliers get? Up to six weeks.

How many BA flyers could transfer to an alternative flight the same day? None How many Ryanair can? A lot.

If you add up all the UK flights BA have cancelled this year it's still going to be higher than Ryanair by the end of all this, but lets not let that get in the way of a good media witchhunt.

01475 21st Sep 2017 19:26

It was more severe for a shorter time. But that's part of the problem Ryanair faced; even the drip feed lasted long enough to scare a lot of people!

racedo 21st Sep 2017 19:38


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9899679)
Word on the street that Ryanair's lawyers are going to start proceedings against some of the media and the press in the upcoming days for some of the ridicolous things that have been printed in the media, the fabrications and the outright lies.

There's been people claiming they were treated badly and had their flights cancelled between airports that Ryanair don't serve, photos claiming to show things on Ryanair aircraft which are not even 737s just to mention a few things.

One only has to look at the fabricated illness stories on All inclusive holidays to see what people will do.

racedo 21st Sep 2017 19:39


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 9899688)
Really? Apart from through insolvency the only airline that has ever had problems on a similar scale has been BA and the press certainly haven't ignored it when it's happened!

The actual effect has probably been felt by something like 100,000 UK citizens, and every UK citizen that had a Ryanair booking in the next few months has suffered fear. Newspapers don't often get to print a story about something that's affected that many people!

Hardly 100k UK citizens.............

DublinPole 21st Sep 2017 19:40


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 9899704)
It was more severe for a shorter time. But that's part of the problem Ryanair faced; even the drip feed lasted long enough to scare a lot of people!

I agree the drip feed was not good - but I suspect some of that was down to the fact they realised the problems so late that they had to cancel any flight in the first few days to be able to cope since they didn't have time to work out a more sensible plan of action that would effect customers the least like they did with the later cancellations.

DublinPole 21st Sep 2017 19:42


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 9899719)
One only has to look at the fabricated illness stories on All inclusive holidays to see what people will do.

Jacobs was particuarly bad, they started posting entire articles about him, containing screenshots from his Facebook and pretty much everything he ever done and taking a whole load of it completely out of context and linked it to the current crisis by saying that basically the person who was at a crisis press conference beside Michael O'Leary then was seen drinking beer.

There was one massive problem with this.

Jacobs wasn't at the press conference.

But why let the facts get in the way.

racedo 21st Sep 2017 19:43


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9899685)
Indeed but the problem is there is a pile load of people in the British Media who are treating this very different because it's Ryanair and have it in for them, some of which have already been sued before for printing untruths about Ryanair.

If the exact same happened with another airline it would get very little coverage, the amount of flack Jacobs has got in the Mail and the invasion of his privacy however is pretty disgusting.

Oh its stored up revenge and this story will get dredged up at every turn.

Media buying arm always changes it because when some see the £1 million campaign that excludes their newspaper they get the message.

MOL refusing to kowtow to UK media makes them angry as doesn't he know who they are.
Problem is that he does which is why he ignores them.

01475 21st Sep 2017 19:51


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 9899722)
Hardly 100k UK citizens.............

Ok, a large number of people and far more than affected by the normal news story.

The day I looked at may not have been representative, but on it more than half the flights involved the UK, and we might guess that about half the people on those flights were British (I know some will have more people from abroad than others, but on the other hand don't try telling me that there's a lot of Spaniards flying from EMA to Palma at this time of year :-D )

01475 21st Sep 2017 19:54


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9899728)
There was one massive problem with this.

Jacobs wasn't at the press conference.

But why let the facts get in the way.

The good news is that things like this (if it's true) may have less effect than you think. I first found out about this from you right now and had never seen the story or heard of the man.

But I have seen a Facebook feed with people sharing stories about cancellations and worrying about their short breaks (not one person I know has actually had a flight cancelled by anyone other than EasyJet in this period, but that's by the by; the fear and the bad press are there and causing harm).

DublinPole 21st Sep 2017 19:59


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 9899746)
The good news is that things like this (if it's true) may have less effect than you think. I first found out about this from you right now and had never seen the story or heard of the man.

Ryanair marketing boss boasts of his 'busy week' | Daily Mail Online

Of course, it won't do any real damage, but my point is this shows the way the British Media are, it's not about printing facts it's all about having it in for people who they don't like and facts need not necessarily get in the way of that.


But I have seen a Facebook feed with people sharing stories about cancellations and worrying about their short breaks (not one person I know has actually had a flight cancelled by anyone other than EasyJet in this period, but that's by the by; the fear and the bad press are there and causing harm).
I agree and the fact that Ryanair tend to normally cancel less flights than almost all the other airlines because of the extensive use of standby crews to recover service means historically they have cancelled less flights in the past.

That's before you take into account the many strikes that have took place over the years in other airlines and IT problems etc that has grounded whole schedules for days.

As I've said even after this is finished Ryanair still probably won't be anywhere near the top of the stats of % of flights cancelled in this calendar year, but the media would have you believe that they are unreliable and more likely to cancel than anyone else.

racedo 21st Sep 2017 20:03


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 9899742)
Ok, a large number of people and far more than affected by the normal news story.

The day I looked at may not have been representative, but on it more than half the flights involved the UK, and we might guess that about half the people on those flights were British (I know some will have more people from abroad than others, but on the other hand don't try telling me that there's a lot of Spaniards flying from EMA to Palma at this time of year :-D )

Really ?

Southern Railways strike ?
London Euston fire last week ?
Tube Strikes ?

racedo 21st Sep 2017 20:05


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 9899746)
The good news is that things like this (if it's true) may have less effect than you think. I first found out about this from you right now and had never seen the story or heard of the man.

But I have seen a Facebook feed with people sharing stories about cancellations and worrying about their short breaks (not one person I know has actually had a flight cancelled by anyone other than EasyJet in this period, but that's by the by; the fear and the bad press are there and causing harm).

We are talking of Facebook where people will be claiming their trip to X has been affected as all of a sudden they get attention.
Reality is most will NOT have anything booked and will not be effected in the slightest.
However their claim to fame will be people reading their crap on facebook.

EI-EIDW 21st Sep 2017 20:49

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/201...1-ryanair-agm/

Ryanair bases in Dublin, Barcelona, Stansted and Shannon have joined colleagues at over 50 other bases in rejecting the airline's proposals for pay increases and bonuses in exchange for giving up annual leave to alleviate the staffing crisis.

It is understood that pilots at 55 of Ryanair's 86 bases have now turned down the deal - raising the prospect of conflict looming between management and staff at the airline.

However, Mr O'Leary has ruled out any change to the airline's contractor model based on hiring a significant number of staff through agencies or alternative arrangements rather than as direct employees.

Pilots were offered the bonus in exchange for working an additional 10 days to plug a shortage that last week forced Ryanair to cancel over 2,000 flights in September and October.

Pilots at London Stansted, Dublin, Frankfurt and Berlin have now been offered an additional €10,000 a year, Michael O'Leary said.

Charlie Roy 21st Sep 2017 20:59


I grant you that it was operated by Eirjet rather than Ryanair
The question should be: why didn't Ryanair resort to the modern day Eirjet's of this world for this pilot shortage and wet lease planes and crews from other airlines?

01475 21st Sep 2017 21:15

Have they not?

I assumed the cancellations would be what was left over after they'd got their hands on anything they could!

mik3bravo 21st Sep 2017 22:02


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9899685)
Indeed but the problem is there is a pile load of people in the British Media who are treating this very different because it's Ryanair and have it in for them, some of which have already been sued before for printing untruths about Ryanair.

If the exact same happened with another airline it would get very little coverage, the amount of flack Jacobs has got in the Mail and the invasion of his privacy however is pretty disgusting.

Nail. Head. Hit.

mik3bravo 21st Sep 2017 22:05


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9899693)
BA was a much bigger scale than this as far as UK flights are concerned.

How many UK flights are Ryanair cancelling a day? About 10? How many were BA cancellng a day? A whole schedule of hundreds.

How much notice did those BA customers get? A day or two. How much notice did Ryanair fliers get? Up to six weeks.

How many BA flyers could transfer to an alternative flight the same day? None How many Ryanair can? A lot.

If you add up all the UK flights BA have cancelled this year it's still going to be higher than Ryanair by the end of all this, but lets not let that get in the way of a good media witchhunt.

The BA outage was a buried story. And there is a lot to that little gem. Bur it was buried. Those on here know it.

DaveReidUK 21st Sep 2017 22:14

Strange. I could have sworn that it hit the headlines in pretty well every newspaper in the county.

A350Saltire 21st Sep 2017 22:33


Originally Posted by mik3bravo (Post 9899876)
The BA outage was a buried story. And there is a lot to that little gem. Bur it was buried. Those on here know it.

Is that you Mr O'Leary?

aileron 22nd Sep 2017 07:32

I've never flown Ryanair and I never will. It will never get a penny from me. It has no respect for its employees, how anyone could work for them is a mystery. Its workforce slaves away to make it richer. Amazing. The quickest way to stop a system is to stop funding it.
Stop funding Ryanair.

Andy_S 22nd Sep 2017 12:02


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 9899886)
Strange. I could have sworn that it hit the headlines in pretty well every newspaper in the county.

I wasn't even in the UK at the time, and I read about it every day.

There's some serious Ryanair Fanboy vibes going down here......

DublinPole 22nd Sep 2017 17:21


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9897418)
Since this is a Ryanair thread, I'll explain the Ryanair factor in this decision, the Ryanair factor is not the only reason they are building it, but certainly it is a factor that contributes to it.

Basically there is a long running battle between PPL (Polish State Airports) and Ryanair which has been going on for the best part of a decade to be honest on and off, I would say Ryanair have worse relations with PPL than any other airport operator, they've complained to the EU about them numerous times.

Basically what it stems from is many years ago when Ryanair flew from Chopin Airport, PPL closed the low cost area at Chopin Airport when LCCs started to rapidly expand and told Ryanair could stay if it went to the core part of the airport with much higher charges. many people speculated that this was an attempt to try and protect LOT.

Ryanair then was heavily lobbying for Modlin Airport for some years, quite a few before any building work started on it. The problem was that Modlin wasn't going to be built because there was not adequate funding for it and PPL would not supply it. Many people felt that PPL could fund it but simply refused to, again to protect LOT.

In the end without enough funding from PPL the Millitary agencies along with local authorites made submissions to the EU for grants to fund the operation of the airport which were accepted, at which point PPL became involved in the project again, the airport was built and Ryanair returned to Poland.

Then there was the situation with Wizz at Modlin who moved out of the airport back to Chopin for an undefined period because of the lack of ILS and then when the airport was closed due to the runway being defective Wizz tried to claim compensation from Modlin for the runway being out of action, despite the fact they'd already moved all their flights out of the airport at the time, they didn't get the compensation they were looking for and never came back.

Over the last 2-3 years PPL have made many attempts to try and gain sole shareholding of Modlin Airport and buying out the other shareholders and using their existing shareholding to get their own people appointed to the board and as chairman & CEO to influence the running of the airport and to run a so called duopoly airport strategy.

Most people I speak to are very cynical at this and believe that the only reason that PPL want to control Modlin is so they can control the growth of Ryanair and therefore protect Chopin Airport and LOT who have lost out because of the presence of Ryanair, there has been talk of having similar charging regimes at both airports and obviously that would hit Ryanair and benefit traditional carriers.

Modlin is now at capacity and again PPL are dragging their heals in relation to investing in the expansion of the airport however there has been indication that if they get full ownership they may be more likely to invest but there are questions about their motives for acquiring the full stake in the airport for the reasons that are outlined above, Modlin being at capacity suited PPL fine since if Modlin cannot expand neither can Ryanair.

To force the issue Ryanair moved it's domestic flights to Chopin Airport and said that if they cannot expand at Modlin they will just do so at Chopin starting with moving the most business orientated routes from Modlin (basically targeting LOT) to Chopin to allow more leisure routes out of Modlin. Chopin couldn't refuse this but on the day Ryanair announced it PPL made the extraordinary statement that they didn't want Ryanair at Chopin but they had to take them.

Since then there has been tit for tat stuff going on, for example in Chopin Airport now Ryanair are getting allocated the furthest away gates from the terminal on a regular basis when arriving into Warsaw that rarely see any use outside Ryanair flights even when nearer parking spaces are avaliable, having long waits for buses and other services that take long routes from the terminal to the airplane and vice versa. Ryanair is now pulling out of Chopin because of this and making a complaint to the EU about unfair treatment.

The idea of one central airport is essentially that in the long term when completed it can possibly replace both Modlin and Chopin Airport and will almost certainly owned by PPL - essentially this would give them complete control over aviation in Warsaw once more, without worrying about low cost carriers at a competing airport. It'll obviously help LOT too and it will bring other benefits than just related to LCCs and LOT so it'd be totally wrong to say they're just doing it for those reasons, but many people think that it plays a part.

PPL have today formally blocked the expansion of Modlin Airport.

A shareholder vote took place and they were the only ones to abstain.

They will not agree to expand the airport unless all the other shareholders sell up to them.

Also now talk of the airport being shut completely soon due to maintenance that cannot be completed because of deadlock between shareholders

EI-EIDW 22nd Sep 2017 21:25

Not exactly getting better:


Ryanair has told cabin crew staff based at England’s East Midlands airport that due to a winter reduction in aircraft, all Customer Service Supervisors must take a six-week block of unpaid leave.

They can avoid this by accepting six weeks secondment to bases with spare capacity in Eindhoven, Cologne and Berlin.

However the staff must pay for their own hotels and meals during that period.

If they reject this offer, they will not be paid for six weeks, and will not be entitled to statutory payments due to turning down alternative work.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0922/906745-ryanair/

racedo 22nd Sep 2017 21:57


Originally Posted by DublinPole (Post 9900760)
PPL have today formally blocked the expansion of Modlin Airport.

A shareholder vote took place and they were the only ones to abstain.

They will not agree to expand the airport unless all the other shareholders sell up to them.

Also now talk of the airport being shut completely soon due to maintenance that cannot be completed because of deadlock between shareholders


What shareholding do PPL hold ?

vikingivesterled 22nd Sep 2017 22:07

What happened to the Ryanair with many destinations but few bases, where everybody spent the night at home. Who created this ungodly mess with tiny bases in places where no crew wants to live. Airport incentives is not the be all and end all and one would think O'Brien had experience in that.
Each pilot should have a prioritised list of where they'd be willing to move and no new base should be created in a place that has less than 14 captains/fo with that place on their list. If that is not the case it can be a destination but not a base. In addition the sheer amount of bases becomes unmanagable. Where they to travel round to hear out what pilots want rather than more money, it could take 3 months.

DublinPole 23rd Sep 2017 10:08


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 9900993)
What shareholding do PPL hold ?

Millitary Property Agency 34.4%
Masovian District Local Authority 30.4%
PPL - Polish State Airports 30.4%
Town of Nowy Dwór Mazowiecki 4.8%

racedo 23rd Sep 2017 10:43

Thanks...,

heidelberg 25th Sep 2017 07:08

Looked at Ryanair charges for November outbound and December return Dublin/Malaga for 2 PAX.
Guess what - Aer Lingus were better value. I booked with AL.
Thank you Mr O'Leary for helping make Aer Lingus competitive.

Alsacienne 25th Sep 2017 08:32

Ryanair advertising on UK TV this morning ...'seats from £14.99' ...

pabely 25th Sep 2017 08:48

I remember when they used to be 99p, how times have changed :ooh:

ESCNI 25th Sep 2017 09:21

Take away the £13 APD, and those flights would be £1.99 ... so, times haven't really changed that much.

ayroplain 25th Sep 2017 09:29


Originally Posted by pabely (Post 9903175)
I remember when they used to be 99p, how times have changed :ooh:

There were fares of 0.01 as well as 0.99. I had some of them. Unfortunately, they had to end as the employees of a certain other airline mounted a campaign of buying up all those seats with no intent to fly.

canberra97 25th Sep 2017 09:34

I can remember taking over 25 flights with Ryanair when they offered 00.01 and 99 pence flights and in one week alone I took six flights.

I knew that they would never last so I made the most of them at the time and taking the opportunity to visit obscure destinations on their network.

Trav a la 25th Sep 2017 11:03

Looks like the CAA are keeping a close eye on MOL.

Ryanair agrees to put passengers on other airlines' flights

WHBM 25th Sep 2017 11:04


Originally Posted by ayroplain (Post 9903204)
There were fares of 0.01 as well as 0.99. I had some of them. Unfortunately, they had to end as the employees of a certain other airline mounted a campaign of buying up all those seats with no intent to fly.

Well so what ? If they were offered at a certain price, and were sold, the airline got the anticipated revenue. What more could they want ?

AirportPlanner1 25th Sep 2017 11:23

Not really because the flights were sold at that price in anticipation of being topped up by ancillary revenues, and also in some cases to ensure passenger targets with airports/regions were met to unlock discounts/rewards/subsidies. None of that is possible if folks don't show up.

c52 25th Sep 2017 11:31

It seemed to me almost invariably that when there was a 1p flight to anywhere, all return flights were priced at a more normal level.

Though I did once manage to fly five people STN-HHN and back for less than £100 including all charges.

vikingivesterled 25th Sep 2017 14:58

If Ryanair don't like Norwegian pinching their pilots, they need to muscle in on Norwegian's core multi frequency 737 routes that provide the cashflow to finance their very expensive transcontinenal expansion. Instead of leaving it to others to decide and just trot out the same mantra about them being out of money in 6 months that was the reason they didn't took up the mantel before Norwegian's big finance markets collection and before they had a bank to sell.


All times are GMT. The time now is 21:50.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.