PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Airlines, Airports & Routes (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/)
-   -   Ryanair-10 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599821-ryanair-10-a.html)

mik3bravo 19th Sep 2017 06:28


Originally Posted by 3wheels (Post 9896249)
It's the beginning of the end....

If nothing else, that comment gave me a belly laugh. Fanciful wishful thinking. Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel happy.

However, let's get back to numbers shall we, and some hard data:

http://corporate.ryanair.com/about-us/fact-and-figures/

blind pew 19th Sep 2017 06:32

Not the only ones...my son flew to Istanbul last year from Heathrow...some BA diversions from Gatwick which didn't effect his flight. At the last minute they allocated the aircraft and crew to another service with the result that he and his family had a total of eight hours before they eventually left. Refused compensation as outside of BA control..not.

mik3bravo 19th Sep 2017 06:42


Originally Posted by blind pew (Post 9896438)
Not the only ones...my son flew to Istanbul last year from Heathrow...some BA diversions from Gatwick which didn't effect his flight. At the last minute they allocated the aircraft and crew to another service with the result that he and his family had a total of eight hours before they eventually left. Refused compensation as outside of BA control..not.

. . . and there you have it. Shit happens.

Energy providers raise cost of electricity to households. Insurance providers raise cost of car insurance. Credit monitor provider (Equifax) gets hacked, your PII is now at risk.

Shit just happens. First world problems. People need a sense of perspective and get over it.

Sober Lark 19th Sep 2017 07:32

3 wheels (9 posts) 100% affected? If you had brains you'd be dangerous. I have 11 flights with FR over the next 3 weeks none cancelled.

heidelberg 19th Sep 2017 07:41

Ryanair cancellations
 
Mrs and myself planning DUB to AGP in November.
Because of the present Ryanair pilot holiday problems our choice is now down to one airline i.e. Aer Lingus - unless of course they run into a similar Pilots 'holiday' problem!
Anyone know if Aer Lingus operate their Pilot holidays programme using the calendar year?

SpannerInTheWerks 19th Sep 2017 07:47

What goes around, comes around. This issue has been brewing for at least 15 years. MOL has reaped what he has sown - this issue is far more than pilots' annual leave naturally.

Sooner or later employees will take no more and vote with their feet - which has been going on to some extent for a long time now.

I've never spoken to anyone with a good opinion of Ryanair. Nothing about their organisation, from the comments made to me, puts them in contention for an 'Investor in People' type award.

Don't be too confident that Ryanair is exempt from it's own self-destruction - this is a PR nightmare and the pilot shortage within the company a potentially insoluble problem.

Pilots are not made overnight and simulator capacity cannot be increased at a whim. Someone mentioned on LinkedIn a few days ago that airline flying is not as attractive as a career option anymore - thanks in no small part to people like MOL, a lack of sponsorship (investment in people) generally and an expensive no-other-option training route to a fATPL/MPL.

I'm sorry for the passengers of course, but I for one would be pleased to see Ryanair and their attitudes to the public and staff crash and burn in a metaphorical sense.

BigFrank 19th Sep 2017 07:55

EU261/2004
 
O’Leary said consequential losses, caused when travellers cancel hire cars or hotels, will not be covered by Ryanair. He added that the airline will not book passengers on to rival airlines to get them to their destination on time.

“We will not pay for flights on other airlines,” he said. “We cannot afford to pay the high costs of our competitors.”

From The Guardian (London) today.

The first part is I think down to the carrier's T&C but I would suggest that this final part of the statement is outwith the spirit of EU261.

Is it outwith the letter?

If yes, will Herr Schulz's successor and/ or M Jean-Claud be taking an interest; always supposing the latter is in a state to so do.

Curious Pax 19th Sep 2017 08:03


Originally Posted by Sober Lark (Post 9896487)
3 wheels (9 posts) 100% affected? If you had brains you'd be dangerous. I have 11 flights with FR over the next 3 weeks none cancelled.

Perhaps if you thought about it you would realise that out in the real world the vast majority of people booked on Ryanair in the next couple of months will be fretting about whether their flight will happen. Although only 2% (on Ryanair's figures) will end up being affected, the impact will be much wider. I would expect a number will look to rebook on another airline if they have the choice, rather than chance their flight being added to the cancelled list late in the day. There will also be a fair number who would have booked to travel at fairly short notice who will not do that on Ryanair now.

Coquelet 19th Sep 2017 08:05

I have 8 flights with FR over the next six weeks, none cancelled.

squeaker 19th Sep 2017 08:16

Yet.......

mik3bravo 19th Sep 2017 08:20


Originally Posted by SpannerInTheWerks (Post 9896501)
What goes around, comes around. This issue has been brewing for at least 15 years. MOL has reaped what he has sown - this issue is far more than pilots' annual leave naturally.

Sooner or later employees will take no more and vote with their feet - which has been going on to some extent for a long time now.

I've never spoken to anyone with a good opinion of Ryanair. Nothing about their organisation, from the comments made to me, puts them in contention for an 'Investor in People' type award.

Don't be too confident that Ryanair is exempt from it's own self-destruction - this is a PR nightmare and the pilot shortage within the company a potentially insoluble problem.

Pilots are not made overnight and simulator capacity cannot be increased at a whim. Someone mentioned on LinkedIn a few days ago that airline flying is not as attractive as a career option anymore - thanks in no small part to people like MOL, a lack of sponsorship (investment in people) generally and an expensive no-other-option training route to a fATPL/MPL.

I'm sorry for the passengers of course, but I for one would be pleased to see Ryanair and their attitudes to the public and staff crash and burn in a metaphorical sense.

I agree with your comment regarding commercial airline pilot as an occupation is no longer seen as an attractive career. Doing the maths, time taken to achieve min. Requirements plus work life balance / family friendly,etc. and cost to recoup your education investment means its not as attractive now. Plenty of other career routes out their with much higher attractive factors on many levels.

However, there will always remain a cohort of wannabes focused on getting into the right seat and jet time. Likes of Ryanair offers that basic hours building to help pilots look at opportunity with longhaul fleets elsewhere. For some, there will always be ambition of a right seat or PIC on the 380 or Dreamliner.

DaveReidUK 19th Sep 2017 08:34


Originally Posted by Coquelet (Post 9896512)
I have 8 flights with FR over the next six weeks, none cancelled.

That's not altogether surprising.

There's an 85% probability that eight flights, each with a 2% chance of cancellation, are all going to fly.

A350Saltire 19th Sep 2017 08:56


Originally Posted by mik3bravo (Post 9896435)
If nothing else, that comment gave me a belly laugh. Fanciful wishful thinking. Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel happy.

However, let's get back to numbers shall we, and some hard data:

Fact and Figures | Ryanair's Corporate Website

It will be interesting to see how this fiasco affects those numbers. There are a lot of very annoyed people! It's also way above 2% of flights cancelled - more than 80 a day, not the 40-50 stated.

oldart 19th Sep 2017 09:37

Passengers will soon forget about this episode and take a chance and book with Ryanair again and and again.

DC3 Dave 19th Sep 2017 10:02


Originally Posted by oldart (Post 9896602)
Passengers will soon forget about this episode and take a chance and book with Ryanair again and and again.

Was planning to fly to Limoges next August and hire a car. Now I'll drive all the way. I won't forget. There's enough growth out there for FR to brush this aside eventually, but it will have an effect.

mik3bravo 19th Sep 2017 10:06


Originally Posted by oldart (Post 9896602)
Passengers will soon forget about this episode and take a chance and book with Ryanair again and and again.

Of course they will. Customers are fickle minded on many consumer characteristics, not exclusively reserved to the airlines. Did Volkswagen see diesel car sales fall off that metaphorical cliff. Did the European high street banks implode following their predatory and irresponsible mortgage lending strategies that lead to the 2008 meltdown.
The consumer carries on.

Ryanair is extremely cash rich with high cash liquidity ratios. It is a powerful business operation and this latest challenge is an unfortunate event but one it will survive and continue growing. It's business model (whilst not for everyone) consistently delivers shareholder investment value and a major employer across Europe. That is the bigger picture.

MOL was upfront, said it as it is, facts and figures, the guy knows his numbers well, very well. The rostering dept on the other hand, well let's just say I would not like to be the leadership of that function, such basic ops stuff to get wrong.

Refuellerman 19th Sep 2017 10:17


Originally Posted by heidelberg (Post 9896497)
Mrs and myself planning DUB to AGP in November.
Because of the present Ryanair pilot holiday problems our choice is now down to one airline i.e. Aer Lingus - unless of course they run into a similar Pilots 'holiday' problem!
Anyone know if Aer Lingus operate their Pilot holidays programme using the calendar year?

Ezy or ls out of belfast, no delays or that type of shit happening up here

Refuellerman 19th Sep 2017 10:19


Originally Posted by mik3bravo (Post 9896627)
Of course they will. Customers are fickle minded on many consumer characteristics, not exclusively reserved to the airlines. Did Volkswagen see diesel car sales fall off that metaphorical cliff. Did the European high street banks implode following their predatory and irresponsible mortgage lending strategies that lead to the 2008 meltdown.
The consumer carries on.

Ryanair is extremely cash rich with high cash liquidity ratios. It is a powerful business operation and this latest challenge is an unfortunate event but one it will survive and continue growing. It's business model (whilst not for everyone) consistently delivers shareholder investment value and a major employer across Europe. That is the bigger picture.

MOL was upfront, said it as it is, facts and figures, the guy knows his numbers well, very well. The rostering dept on the other hand, well let's just say I would not like to be the leadership of that function, such basic ops stuff to get wrong.

Rostering dept nothing to do with 140 transfers to d8

PAXboy 19th Sep 2017 11:50

Economics101

And this ignores any further long-term reputational damage.
There will not be any. The factors in FRs favour are already noted:
  • They are RICH.
  • Pax are POOR.
  • They have a PR machine that runs smoother than a Rolls-Royce.
  • Some Pax wannabe Pilots.
mik3bravo

Storm in a tea cup. It's today's news story. FR ballsed up, big deal. Shit happens. 2% of their customer base affected. The FR monster machine will continue to out perform the other wannabe's.
Absolutely. Even if the 2% number is not accurate, they will keep spouting it. And, given that BA has buried the reason for their massive systems failure a few months ago, they can claim to be 'open'.

Andy_S 19th Sep 2017 11:54


Originally Posted by PAXboy (Post 9896742)
They have a PR machine that runs smoother than a Rolls-Royce.

Self-evidently not true after this cock up.......

PAXboy 19th Sep 2017 12:13

Just wait until a few months have elapsed. They will continue to smooth this, even as the real reason continues to leak out.
Again, compare their PR with BA's.

Andy_S 19th Sep 2017 13:01


Originally Posted by PAXboy (Post 9896775)
Just wait until a few months have elapsed. They will continue to smooth this......

And Iíve no doubt it will be. And no, this isnít the end for Ryanair. And yes, people will still book with them.

But I do wonder if this is a bit of a watershed moment for them. Theyíve been shown to be vulnerable and to have issues with staff retention and internal processes.

mart901 19th Sep 2017 13:15


Originally Posted by Andy_S (Post 9896833)
And Iíve no doubt it will be. And no, this isnít the end for Ryanair. And yes, people will still book with them.

But I do wonder if this is a bit of a watershed moment for them. Theyíve been shown to be vulnerable and to have issues with staff retention and internal processes.

They've had issues with staff retention for years, especially cabin crew. It's now come to a head, and the pilots are in a stronger position than they were because they are fighting for them

EI-EIDW 19th Sep 2017 13:25

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/201...us-for-pilots/


Ryanair offers Ä12,000 bonus to pilots who give up leave

mik3bravo 19th Sep 2017 13:30


Originally Posted by EI-EIDW (Post 9896863)

Nice money, if you can get it.

squeaker 19th Sep 2017 13:46

Plenty of strings attached if you read the whole article. Too easy for them to worm out of paying it.

LGS6753 19th Sep 2017 13:49

I find it astonishing that they feel able to cancel 25% of their Stansted flights over the six week period. Since they are so dominant there, there's (almost) no-one to fear.

BCALBOY 19th Sep 2017 14:21

FR are cancelling 7-10 departures per day from Stn in the period from 25Sep , this is no where near 25% of operation.

It involves the equivalent of 2 out of 41 STn based a/c though some of the cancelled flights are operated by overseas based aircraft.

It looks more like 7-8% of STN operation.

WHBM 19th Sep 2017 15:35

Not paying someone for 12 months, and then not at all if they have left in the meantime, would appear to breach minimum pay legislation, in the UK at least (possibly also in Ireland and other EU countries).

Saying they will not be paid the amount due if they have more than 4 days sick in the intervening 12 months would act as an incentive to wish to work when unwell, which should surely attract the attention of even such a toothless regulator as the Irish CAA.

Interesting BBC take on the situation, at last now questioning the Ryanair official line

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41319482

BFS BHD 19th Sep 2017 15:40


Originally Posted by 1sky (Post 9896414)
Ryanair press conference in Burgas - Bulgaria this morning.

Did this press conference happen?

mik3bravo 19th Sep 2017 16:04


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 9897008)
Not paying someone for 12 months, and then not at all if they have left in the meantime, would appear to breach minimum pay legislation, in the UK at least (possibly also in Ireland and other EU countries).

Saying they will not be paid the amount due if they have more than 4 days sick in the intervening 12 months would act as an incentive to wish to work when unwell, which should surely attract the attention of even such a toothless regulator as the Irish CAA.

Interesting BBC take on the situation, at last now questioning the Ryanair official line

Does Ryanair have a pilot shortage? - BBC News

Slow day at the Beeb and amateur so called journalism. If they bothered to rewind yesterday's VT of the MOL press conference they will have fact based data on crew availability per airframe. Stupidity of the BBC. MOL would not be stating the numbers and facts yesterday for the fun of it. It was aimed at aviation regulators attention to detail and the Ryanair institutional investors and it's own employee's.

1sky 19th Sep 2017 16:07


Originally Posted by BFS BHD (Post 9897012)
Did this press conference happen?

Yes, Burgas 1 aircraft base confirmed with 10 routes.

Nothing on the Ryanair website for the moment.

BFS BHD 19th Sep 2017 16:10


Originally Posted by 1sky (Post 9897052)
Yes, Burgas 1 aircraft base confirmed with 10 routes.

Nothing on the Ryanair website for the moment.

Thanks for the info!

Sober Lark 19th Sep 2017 16:10


Interesting BBC take on the situation, at last now questioning the Ryanair official line - We know 140 Ryanair pilots have gone to Norwegian this year
"April to June adjusted operating profit before leasing and depreciation (EBITDAR) fell to 1.19 billion crowns (€125.8 million), down 21 per cent year-on-year and below analysts’ forecast in a Reuters poll of 1.51 billion crowns. Norwegian Air’s operating result swung to a loss of 863 million crowns from a year-ago profit of 1 billion, while analysts had expected a loss of 246 million."

Not everyone you lose is a loss.

Jamie2k9 19th Sep 2017 16:12

Bulgaria New Routes
 

Yes, Burgas 1 aircraft base confirmed with 10 routes.

Nothing on the Ryanair website for the moment.
Burgas:
Bratislava (2)
Dusseldorf Weeze (2)
Frankfurt-Hahn (2)
Krakow (2)
Memmingen (2)
Milan Bergamo (2)
Riga (2)
Rzeszow (1)
Tel Aviv (2)
Warsaw Modlin (2)

Sofia:
Paphas (3)

Plovdiv:
Brussels Charleroi (2)
Frankfurt-Hahn (2)
Milan Bergamo (2)

Vana:
Brussels Charleroi (2)

1sky 19th Sep 2017 16:43

The Bulgarian press release is now here:

RYANAIR ????????? ???????????? 100 ???. ?????? ? ???????? ? ???? ???????? ???? (? 87) 1 ??????? ???????, 10 ???????? ? 250 000 ??????? ??????? ? ???????? ?? ???????? ?????????? ?? ???? 2018 | Ryanair's Corporate Website

The big question is what they plan to do with the aircraft in winter.

BigFrank 19th Sep 2017 17:08

EU-free airline company?
 
That would seem to be the case given that the BBC has just reported that Ryanair's offer to rebook passengers on alternative flights is contingent on their being willing to pay the difference when the replacement flight is more expensive in clear contradiction of EU261/2004.

An error by the BBC?
Far from impossible !


A clear indication that Ryanair is an EU-free airline
? Far from....

toledoashley 19th Sep 2017 17:12

Would a Plovdiv base in the winter make sense, to tie in with ski season?

Charlie Roy 19th Sep 2017 20:50


Originally Posted by PAXboy (Post 9896775)
Just wait until a few months have elapsed. They will continue to smooth this, even as the real reason continues to leak out.
Again, compare their PR with BA's.

At least BA wet leased a bunch of Qatar A320's when BA had staffing issues (strikes). I wonder did Ryanair even explore this option? The 8 Qatar A321's would have worked great, and Qatar still have not resumed the dozens of daily short-haul flights it was forced to suspend earlier this year.

RAT 5 19th Sep 2017 21:00

The underlying thought seems to be that cancelling the published number of flights and the slow winter schedule will somehow, at a stroke, solve their pilot shortage for next year. I am very sceptical about that. Next summer is not far away and the bums on seats that matter are in 1A & 1F.


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:04.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.