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-   -   Manchester-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599775-manchester-2-a.html)

DP. 13th Jul 2018 13:00


Originally Posted by pholling (Post 10195756)
The CAA report is crap, i.e. so poorly written that it boarders on arbitrary. However, it seems MAN clearly has or has had issues with the handling of disabled passengers. It is also pretty clear that the airlines are probably even worse. I would guess that there are some airlines that are much worse than others and are also much less likely to be willing to pay for quality service at an airport. Smaller airports tend to do better, and this may be because they are 'minimum gauge' on the service, where as the larger airports are much more dependent on specific staffing levels. Incidentally, this isn't a survey and the CAA doesn't make directly, accessible reference to the passenger satisfaction survey results for individual airports, just the industry as a whole.

However it also states that, 1) the stats provided by the airport demonstrate poor performance and 2) that the airport accepted that their performance has been unacceptable.

You can dismiss it as 'crap', but the fact is that this is yet another piece of evidence which correlates with an ongoing pattern of poor service and increasing customer dissatisfaction.

pholling 13th Jul 2018 14:44


Originally Posted by DP. (Post 10195779)


However it also states that, 1) the stats provided by the airport demonstrate poor performance and 2) that the airport accepted that their performance has been unacceptable.

You can dismiss it as 'crap', but the fact is that this is yet another piece of evidence which correlates with an ongoing pattern of poor service and increasing customer dissatisfaction.

I actually provides almost no stats. The Executive summary contains information that is not present in the main body of the report, let alone expanded upon. Yes, the airports all have admitted to issues, but given the CAA has an enforcement role, there is an incentive to do so. In the case of Manchester, there is/was a clear issue with understaffing and as a result wait times compared to the 'targets' set by the CAA. We aren't told what those targets are or what the basis for them is, so it is effectively impossible to determine if they were actually 'correct' in the first place. That said, you are correct that there a significant signs of issues with poor performance in a number of areas at MAN, but the data presented is so poorly done that you cannot definitely say they exist. As for increasing customer dissatisfaction, at least in the CAA report there is no evidence of such, just evidence that the airport remains at 'Poor' on their criteria list. Keep in mind according to Appendix B and airport could rate poor and actually have very low dissatisfaction percentages.

pholling 13th Jul 2018 14:47


Originally Posted by Flightrider (Post 10195778)
EU1107/2006 removed the responsibility of PRM provision from airlines individually - who used to be able to contract with any of a range of competing suppliers - and handed that responsibility to airports, who by and large have contracted with a single supplier for their entire PRM requirements, the costs of which are then met by a PRM levy on every passenger's ticket. All of the airports assessed in this year's CAA report have a monopoly provider for PRM assistance so it's a level playing field - and one backed by EU regs - in that respect. I think there are a couple of airports where the operator provides the service with its own staff, but for the mostpart, it is contracted out to third parties who are then managed (or not) by the airport operator....

The tension is that the PRM charge is typically negotiated with the airlines. They have a strong incentive to not want to pay any extra and are not the direct subject of the report. In fact the CAA hints that the airlines are often very poor in PRM handling and might be worse than the airports. I would hypothesise that some airlines or groups of airlines are significantly worse than others and this will have a trickle down effect on the airports they serve, especially larger airports.

DomyDom 13th Jul 2018 16:04


Originally Posted by RAS_2001 (Post 10195743)
TUI have announced that they are starting direct flights from Manchester to Aqaba, Muscat, and Langkawi in Malaysia, I would imagine that LGK would even a seasonal destination, unsure about the other 2.

Thanks for posting this RAS_2001. Please can you post a link to the source as I can't find the announcement online. Presumably Aqaba and Muscat are charter flights as they don't appear to be bookable?

DP. 13th Jul 2018 16:48


Originally Posted by pholling (Post 10195852)
I actually provides almost no stats. The Executive summary contains information that is not present in the main body of the report, let alone expanded upon. Yes, the airports all have admitted to issues, but given the CAA has an enforcement role, there is an incentive to do so. In the case of Manchester, there is/was a clear issue with understaffing and as a result wait times compared to the 'targets' set by the CAA. We aren't told what those targets are or what the basis for them is, so it is effectively impossible to determine if they were actually 'correct' in the first place. That said, you are correct that there a significant signs of issues with poor performance in a number of areas at MAN, but the data presented is so poorly done that you cannot definitely say they exist. As for increasing customer dissatisfaction, at least in the CAA report there is no evidence of such, just evidence that the airport remains at 'Poor' on their criteria list. Keep in mind according to Appendix B and airport could rate poor and actually have very low dissatisfaction percentages.

I know it doesn't provide the stats, but as I said in my previous post, it states that the data provided by MAN demonstrates poor performance on waiting times and that they accept it is an issue (regardless of whether you think the targets are 'correct', or what you suggest their motivation for doing so is).

To be clear I am not saying that this report, in itself, can be held up as quantitative evidence (albeit that the summary does suggest it) of the dissatisfaction. It does however very much correlate with the wider pattern of dissatisfaction at the service which at this point is clearly undeniable.

Flightrider 13th Jul 2018 17:24


The tension is that the PRM charge is typically negotiated with the airlines.
The costs of the service are negotiated between the airport and the PRM provider. The airport then divides the total cost by the number of passengers it expects to come through its doors and levies a per passenger fee. It is normally ringfenced from the normal commercial negotiations between airports and airlines as to what the airline pays to use the airport. The airline influence over the PRM element of costs is probably the lowest of any component of the fees and charges paid by any airline at any airport. The Manchester PRM charge per departing passenger is already towards the upper end of the scale for major airports (although not the highest). It doesn't seem to correlate to the service being provided also being at the upper end of the scale. Either way, the ball is firmly in the airport's court to fix it.

RAS_2001 13th Jul 2018 17:24


Originally Posted by DomyDom (Post 10195912)
Thanks for posting this RAS_2001. Please can you post a link to the source as I can't find the announcement online. Presumably Aqaba and Muscat are charter flights as they don't appear to be bookable?

http://book.manchesterairport.co.uk/Info/MAN/Schedules
This is the link which clearly shows Aqaba and Langkawi, with also new direct route to Thailand Pattaya U-Tapao

BHX5DME 13th Jul 2018 18:23

These wereThomson cruise flights announced a while ago
BHX has similar

DomyDom 14th Jul 2018 08:13


Originally Posted by RAS_2001 (Post 10195972)
http://book.manchesterairport.co.uk/Info/MAN/Schedules
This is the link which clearly shows Aqaba and Langkawi, with also new direct route to Thailand Pattaya U-Tapao

Thanks RAS_2001

DomyDom 14th Jul 2018 08:15


Originally Posted by BHX5DME (Post 10196017)
These wereThomson cruise flights announced a while ago
BHX has similar

Thanks for the info BHX5DME. I thought that was probably the case.

LAX_LHR 14th Jul 2018 10:05

Eurowings increase DUS-MAN from 3 daily (Mon-Fri) to 4 daily starting 11th November.

RAS_2001 14th Jul 2018 10:31

Apologies for misleading you Dom, the article didn't say whether or not it was new cruise destinations or airline destinations. You can easily mistake one for the other...

LFC22 14th Jul 2018 18:10

Just recently passed in and out of security at T2, what a refreshing change and a genuinely pleasant experience. Flying out, I was in security for no more than five minutes and the staff were surprisingly cheery and helpful. Inbound today from Doha, the queue did look quite long but it was fast moving as all the passport barriers were open. It was actually quicker than Changi security. Hats off to T2.

Also agree on the previous points that it is great to see Qatar switch to the A350. Having flown on both this week, it is a much superior aircraft in every way.

ZOOKER 14th Jul 2018 20:48

LAX_LHR........More services,,,,..Constantly turning the screws on an already overloaded airport.

chaps1954 14th Jul 2018 22:31

A lot of things are going to change over next few months with terminal moves, pier 1 on T2 opening in spring

Mr A Tis 14th Jul 2018 23:23


A lot of things are going to change over next few months with terminal moves, pier 1 on T2 opening in spring
Deck chairs & Titanic springs to mind...

SWBKCB 15th Jul 2018 09:38


Originally Posted by Mr A Tis (Post 10196848)
Deck chairs & Titanic springs to mind...

Yeah, all these airlines must be daft, opening routes to an airport that can't cope. :ok:

RAS_2001 15th Jul 2018 12:51

With the expansion underway i'm sure MAN will be able to handle at least 15 long haul aircraft at once. I would also like to see PVG be available as a direct service are one point in the near future, but we will have to wait and see how things pan out. I would suspect that the four piers would be equally spaced out with an adequate number of gates for each pier. I would imagine at least 10-12 per pier.

DomyDom 15th Jul 2018 14:31


Originally Posted by RAS_2001 (Post 10196393)
Apologies for misleading you Dom, the article didn't say whether or not it was new cruise destinations or airline destinations. You can easily mistake one for the other...

Its no problem RAS_2001, thanks for sharing anyway.

RAS_2001 15th Jul 2018 19:24


Originally Posted by DomyDom (Post 10197246)
Its no problem RAS_2001, thanks for sharing anyway.

Thanks for the reassurance Dom.


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