SCANDIC

Don't normally get involved with this thread but I believe LH was in the hangar after an indication problem with the landing gear, so probably just on jacks for retraction tests rather than "a massive problem with the airframe or something"

...why let a bit of scaremongering get in the way of a true story....:rolleyes:

Scandic - any evidence to back up these statements? Put up or shut up.

Does anyone no if Jet2 will be adding anymore aircraft in 2015 to their fleet? If so any idea what the aircraft could be added?

Thanks :)

It doesn't look like routine maintenance and therefore it's a "problem with the airframe or something". Really though? :rolleyes:

To be fair, you need some evidence to back this up. Jet2 seems to have taken a battering in the last few weeks. Thomas Cook had a lot more tech delay last summer and didn't see anyone branding their aircrafts unsafe or criticising maintenance practises. I think people are being a bit unfair. I think they've been quite unlucky recently. But least they sort their tech delays, generally, a lot quicker than others.

Plan is 5 aircraft a year for the next 5 years! They'll be 737-800's! If they can get type-rated and experienced quality people to fly them will be the challenge.

Well I fly both variants on a regular basis, and I can assure you I am just as happy and reliable in the Classics as in the NGs!

Thanks for that Sean! :)

Recently flew down to Malaga and back on Jet2 from Leeds. Havent been with them for some time but very impressed. Out on G-CelJ of Blackpool fame and back on the 757 `AA`..Both felt very safe and comfortable.Will certainly be flying them again. Age doesn`t bother me its how they are maintained, something Jet2 do well..

My son is a ground engineer (Raf) and I take professional advice from him. Maybe some of the Jet2 knockers should do the same..

PS He flew many times in the Tristar and VC10 until they became extinct and always felt safe for the reason above....Good luck to Jet2 and all the people it gives jobs to :ok:

Year end results published

http://www.dartgroup.co.uk/uploadedF...4%20Prelim.pdf

Results
 

Clearly the market doesn't think the results are good, share price in free-fall.

I suspect the share price drop is more to do with the future rather than the past (generally the case). PM's last line in his statement about lower profits for this FY probably started the fall (in addition to uncertainty about oil prices, state of the economy in the North, uptake of hols during the world cup etc - as evidenced by the plethora of e mails advertising sales of seats I have received from the 3 main operators from LBA).

Fowler Welch:-
Distribution is extremely competitive and the reduction in profits here will not have helped the share price. It will no doubt recover

Jet2
 

Quote:" ....meant that operating profits reduced 23% to £3.6m (2013: £4.7m)
Distribution is extremely competitive and the reduction in profits here will not have helped the share price. It will no doubt recover"

Touching faith in the ability of a very weak middle management!

Flybar,

Surely the fact that they have a fleet made up of many gas guzzling older planes (733s and 757s) may take its toll now that oil prices are on the rise again and increased general maintenance ?

Even their 738s are pretty old.

Suppose depends on whether they hedged their fuel and if so what at.

Current Brent Crude has risen from below $100 a barrell few months back to $114 a barrell today, with a market forecast of possibly up to $121 by end of year.

Jet 2 remind me slightly of BMI Baby, whos fleet of older 733s and their inability of being able to buy new generation planes probably paid a big part in their demise.


Nigel

Apart from the fact that Jet2 own the majority of their aircraft outright, so don't pay exorbitant leasing costs as bmibaby had to do. Also, Jet2 are bringing 'new' aircraft to their fleet year on year whereas bmibaby maintained a fairly steady figure towards the end.
Jet2 also looks for ways of expanding i.e. Jet2 Holidays, which I think is the 3rd largest tour operator in the UK now.
bmibaby had a management whose hands were tied by those higher up. The writing was on the wall when Lufthansa were forced to buy them by Bishop.

Flying wild
 

I think you are more or less spot on with your comparison between Jet2 and bmibaby, however Jet2 face some challenges going forward that other airline who have invested in newer aircraft are less exposed to, the recent ruling against Jet2 over compensation for aircraft faults inevitably increases the cost risk for delays.

For much of the bread and butter work down to the mainland Costa's the 737-300 is still a very good work horse, but needs more and more TLC as time goes on and whilst Jet2 clearly pull all the stops out when something goes wrong more and more passengers are less tolerant of delays, they expect aircraft to preform like new cars where you seldom if ever look under the bonnet.

Fuel costs for older aircraft are a straight trade of against a much lower lease or ownership/purchase cost.

There is probably oversupply of seats in Jet2 home turf of Northern England and moves by Ryanair to become more customer and family friendly will overtime eat into Jet2 market and FR have cost base of less than half of that of Jet2.

On the plus side they now have a large loyal customer base in Leeds,Manchester and the Midlands, my only worry would be that number of mainly minor tech issues like loss of cabin pressure,RTO's, evacuations, diverts,increase and that one of them get badly handled by the crew, but a steady flow of newer aircraft overtime should address that

Something to bare in mind is that this was before Jet2 started to have airport standby aircraft and crews at LBA, MAN and ALC. This was to mitigate against the 3hr EU261 time frame.

One further problem the Dart group face which is nothing to do with the Jet 2 operation but will effect results is the Fowler Welsh logistics side of the business. The market is very competitive and in September the Drivers CPC becomes a requirement in Europe. Unfortunately this is likely to cause a HGV driver shortage as many older drivers retire early rather than take the cost and time of the training. Fowler tend to use mainly Eastern European drivers but even they are starting to dry up and as a result they may have to start paying more to recruit their drivers. I just hope this doesn't put more stress on the Jet 2 side of the operation. Perhaps it's time to sell and concentrate on aviation?

Flying Wild,

Hmm hardly call their 737-800 fleet "new" they are between 13 and 17 yrs old :eek: !!

However get the gist, next gen 737s so will be more fuel efficient that the 733s.


Nigel

With regard to the profit warning and statement about pax levels in summer 14.

Hopefully with GB now out of the World Cup they might experience the same surge in summer bookings as reported by Thomsons this week.

GB were never in the World Cup, its was actually only England !!!!

Would that be the friendly Ryanair that cancelled many many flights this week during the French ATC strike telling their passengers to come back upto 4 days later to travel??

How many flights did Jet2 cancel - 0

It's when things go awry that Ryanair fall over and leave their passengers in the lurch year in and year out.

Actually Johnny F@rt Pants I think you'll find that Jet2 did in fact cancel 2x flights from Leeds/Bradford to Amsterdam and Dusseldorf on Wednesday evening. But I do agree with you it was not as many flight cancellations compared to either Ryanair or Easyjet, who lets not forget have much larger fleets..

Stand corrected then, humble apologies.

Larger fleets, more flights, so you'd expect more cancellations surely?

Recent ATC cancellations
 

Yes fleet size is a major factor but also fleet usage and Jet2 have a big advantage there, it is very rare to hear a Channex call sign late at night meanwhile Easy/Ryanair & Norwegian are still flying around at un godly hours, so a delay of a few few hours does not have a knock on to hundred of other passengers on later flights.

How long before the new competition and market authority clampdown on jet2 adding check in charges to passenger fares excluding them from the headline fare. Checking in for a flight isn't optional. By all means charge a supplement for airport check in but my understanding is this is simply an irritating factor consumers despise

Jet2 have quite a backlog of 3 hour plus delay claims waiting to be paid to passengers, pending their appeal against their High Court of Appeal defeat in the Supreme Court.

I wonder if any reserve appears in the recent accounts to allow for such payments being made? That could account for a profit reduction, if it has. However, for such an amount not to be put aside, would be pure folly.

I travelled from Leeds to Paris and back two weeks ago. Provided you check in on line and allow the system to give you a seat, there is no check in charge. So it isn't compulsory.

It used to be. I remember they charged for both on-line and airport check-in but charged a lot more for airport check-in. Plus they also increased the check-in fee if you added a bag which I thought was very scummy!


They still do this with airport check-in. For example on EMA - DLM in August it charges £49 return for the bag but increases the airport check-in fee by £6 for every bag so strictly speaking it actually costs £55 per bag (and I have seen even more severe cases than that).


I never considered flying with them because of this but at least you can now avoid it by checking in on-line. Glad it has somewhat changed.

SWBKCB
 

Regarding the amount of flights cancelled.
Ryanair have about 300 aircraft and cancelled somewhere in the region of 400 plus flights.
Jet2 have a fleet of about 60 aircraft and cancelled 2 flights. Somehow I think it is a better ratio in favour of Jet2.
But Ryanair will stand there saying look at our on time performance. I firmly believe that cancellations should be recorded in official OTP figures.
As for late night flights, of 5 arrivals into Manchester at 2 am (ish) this morning 3 were Jet2.

Jet2 Cancellations
 

Quote:

---

SWBKCB





Regarding the amount of flights
cancelled.
Ryanair have about 300 aircraft and cancelled somewhere in the
region of 400 plus flights.
Jet2 have a fleet of about 60 aircraft and
cancelled 2 flights. Somehow I think it is a better ratio in favour of Jet2.

But Ryanair will stand there saying look at our on time performance. I
firmly believe that cancellations should be recorded in official OTP figures.

As for late night flights, of 5 arrivals into Manchester at 2 am (ish) this
morning 3 were Jet2.

---

Many of Jet2's passengers are on inclusive tours so not so easy to cancel flights. The 2 flights they cancelled were city flights from LBA

Flybar
 

You're missing my point.
And that is Jet2 do everything they can to get the customer there. Whether that be a Jet2.com or a Jet2Holidays.com customer.
Ryanair just cancel and not through some altruistic gesture of protecting the passengers. It is to protect them and their on time performance figures.

Check Mags On

The difference is that FR operate very tight schedules and can easily have at least 3, 4 or even 5 return flights per day compared to LS which is usually only 2. Effectively, FR would end up with a huge backlog of indefinite delays if it were not to cancel the disrupted flights.

It is much more manageable for LS however to operate the disrupted flights without causing any severe problems to the rest of its network.

So in my mind it's a no brainer for FR to cancel all the effected flights and promptly inform the relevant passengers whilst keeping everyone else whose flight isn't affected happy. The alternative would be constant delaying and delaying of every single flight across its network and for FR of all airlines would cause absolute havoc for everyone involved.

Neither case is right or wrong as such, it's simply just a difference in the operation between the two airlines.

I believe FR and EZY were instructed to cancel flights into France on the strike days by the French authorities. I believe this was around 15% each day. Further cancellations were announced later in day as more flights became disrupted.

Easyjet cancelled 150 flights
BA cancelled over 50 flights

DGAC ordered/requested/pleaded FR to cancel around 20% of flights to/from French airports, with its aircraft based all over France. This particular LS/FR comparison is just silly.

FRatSTN
 

What makes your schedules any more precious than any other airline.
Jet2 aircraft do not just do 2 rotations a day.
Keep believing your own excuses.

777X
FR wish to compare their on time performance to all other airlines. So why is a comparison of cancellations silly.

Check Mags On


I'm not too sure you've really followed but I don't want to get into a big debate about this because that would be silly. So lets just agree to leave it at that hey?

FRatSTN
 

I have followed you, and I fully understand how airline schedules work, the fact that I profoundly disagree with you is the difference.
I am proud that Jet2 operated most of their flights. FR did cancel lots of their flights in France on request of the authorities. But you also had mass cancellations out of many other airports.
You could quite easily have operated flights to non French airports and took the hit on the CTOT but no, they were cancelled.

Quite happy to agree to disagree.
OTP is all lies, damn lies and statistics.