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-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

757 Speedbrakes 4th Aug 2010 10:36

Well I did say rumor, and a probably a fairly poor one with Baby and Ryanair having a large 73 presence at EMA......

Facelookbovvered 4th Aug 2010 11:11

Speedbrakes
 
I don't think there is much doubt about Jet2 intention at East Mids, they are investing heavily in brand awareness and on good time keeping at EMA just has they did at Leeds with the first 737 on AMS and having a service back up from day one.

It is a much larger catchment area than Leeds and the loads and yields have been excellent so far. I have heard 2 757's and 1 733 from the start of April next year, what can WW do if anything, they are far smaller than Jet2 with only dozen aircraft & 5 or 6 at EMA Jet2 have night mail aircraft there anyway.

I don't see long term WW in the bmi group, Jet2 looked at them when LH had its car boot sale as did others, but no one was interested,the problem was the high lease cost of their old fleet and high pilot labour & pension costs with many earning over a 100k, perhaps with lease running out and a pay freeze that might change in the future, shame really because they started early and could/should have been a big player, but Sir bled it dry

Ryanair wont give a fig what Jet2 do its not the same market and Jet2holidays are taking a bigger and bigger share of Jet2 flights helped by the pound against the Euro and people learning that a do it your self holiday is often much more expensive than an all inclusive one and a lot more risky if things go wrong or you get flight cancellations as Easyjet are having to do with lack crews or Ryanair do when it suits, Jet2 have a much bigger incentive to get you were your going to because its costs them much more to cance.l

GayFriendly 4th Aug 2010 15:59


I have heard 2 757's and 1 733 from the start of April next year, what can WW do if anything, they are far smaller than Jet2
Come back to BHX!! There's plenty of space (apron and terminal ;)) and nothing to fear from FR who are continually contracting their base there. I'm sure BHX management will welcome a bigger Baby with open arms.....after all there's precious little else on the horizon for BHX at the mo!!

757 Speedbrakes 4th Aug 2010 19:00


It is a much larger catchment area than Leeds and the loads and yields have been excellent so far.
That's true, I'd say an average load of 190-200 on all my flights at least.

Bookings are already good for next summer apprently, even the new ones that compete with Baby......

4Screwaircrew 4th Aug 2010 21:33

Jet2 have no Royal Mail aircraft at EMA, they fly in and out, none are based.
As to next year, the MD has said 1 more 757, no mention of 737s at this time.

OliWW 6th Aug 2010 17:17

Thomson should be basing a B752 and B738 at EMA for the winter season, both winglet B73H are off to Canada on lease with a couple of others, so it will be a non-winglet B738 and non-winglet B752

[email protected] 11th Aug 2010 12:47

Current Vacant biulding that could be used as a........
 
The ICC members have been told by EMA route development team that there is a current vacant building at the airport that could be developed into a second terminal to be used for long haul services exclusively. They are currently looking for a direct service to India, a Middle Eastern Hub service and a N. American link.

I cant for the life of me ID the vacant building that could work.

Any advise???

Balair 11th Aug 2010 13:29

Second Terminal
 
Extracts from the ICC meeting minutes state:-

"EMA has the potential to develop a vacant building into a second dedicated terminal and could fund this for a potential customer." and

"EMA confirmed consideration of using a second terminal as a business terminal"

There is no connection with the airport's "long-term aims" of attracting further long haul routes, only perhaps through an assumption that this possible development might encourage an airline to commence a route to a European hub.

The only building which could possibly form the basis of a second terminal would be the old Post Office hub. This would require substantial development, but it is close to the check-in hall and the elevated walkway runs next to it on the airside?

NJTCF 12th Aug 2010 05:37

Penny is Leaving.............
 
Penny Coates has got a new job within the MAG group a promotion. I See the job for MD is going to be advertised internally. Lets hope we get someone with abit of airport experience. But advertising the job internally looks to me they are trying to save money. Lets hope there are No suitable candidates and we get someone like John Spooner. Just hope they dont get anyone else from Walmart:ok:.

Amazing the airport does not even mention the above yet on the website.

Lets just hope who does come in they stand up for the airport and get things going forward again. Not all the profits going one way up the A50.

NJTCF 12th Aug 2010 05:40

Second Terminal..
 
UPS Building?

Thou i think the above was always ear marked for a new arrivals hall.

Mr Angry from Purley 12th Aug 2010 20:46

direct flights to India, yeah and the UKIA Taliban Airways will rise from it's grave.. See EMA is 18% down on 2009 traffic the biggest drop across the UK Airports...:\

OliWW 12th Aug 2010 20:58

I cant see more passengers coming during this winter with Ryanair reducing the fleet from 6 last winter to 4 this winter. Yes, ok Jet2 are here now, but are only operating a few flights a week extra which won't make up the figures as well as there being no easyJet

FR- 13th Aug 2010 11:51

last winter fr used 4 a/c with somedays a 5th one being used for half a day.

egnxema 14th Aug 2010 15:35

Note that EZY were only operating to end DEC 09, so yes, the current figures part reflect thier absence, the figures for JAN11 will be a true YoY reflection of EMA without EZY.

Agree with the need for a european hub connection. The new MD should be making this a priority.

The WW flights to AMS and CDG are fine point to point, but EMA should be out courting AFKL subsidiaries Britair, Regional or CityJet, or KLM CityHopper to establish (or re-establich in KL's case) a 3x or 4x daily service in to its hubs. A viable alternative would be LH sub, CityLine in to FRA or MUC.

I think long haul point-to-point is the wet dream of a few. But it is an absolute fact that EMA is failing the local small & medium business community, as well as missing traffic from local international corporates like Rolls Royce, Toyota, NEXT, & the MOD by not attracting a global airline to feed full interline services in to its hubs.

Their is no reason EMA cannot continue to push LoCo leisure traffic, but it is a shameful omission that a feed in to a European hub is absent.

We live in an period where airlines will be unlikely to start speculative routes, but they are and will respond to clear business proposals put fwd by airport companies and RDAs.

So come on EMA, and East midlands Dev Agency. Pull you fingers out and get knocking on some doors!

flybar 14th Aug 2010 16:22


Their is no reason EMA cannot continue to push LoCo leisure traffic, but it is a shameful omission that a feed in to a European hub is absent.

Isn't Schiphol a 'European Hub'? Twice daily flights from EMA to AMS

Accepting that it may not be ideal for such a large catchment area given that 2 carriers compete on LBA-AMS both flying morning, noon & night!

airhumberside 15th Aug 2010 09:14

BRU may not be FRA, AMS or CDG, but Brussels Airlines codeshare on bmi's service and connections are possible across Europe and Africa and to a few other cities like NYC. EMA does currently have a 'hub' link

ATNotts 15th Aug 2010 09:15

Flybar:

AMS is of course a European hub - and one of the best from a pax transfer point of view.

However, WW are just a loco carrier that offers point to point travel only. So, if for example you want to fly from EMA to, say Moscow, you would have to buy your ticket from WW, and pay all the money-grabbing supplements for seat reservation, baggage, credit card payment and whatever else they can think of to charge for; then buy another ticket from KLM for the AMS/MOW leg. On arrival in AMS you would have to pick up your bag, go through arrivals (immigration controls), then recheck-in, or at least do a baggage drop in departures before going back through border controls, and to the gate for the AMS Moscow leg. A right palava.

If you book KLM from BHX, LBA, MAN or wherever you check in at the UK departure airport, along with your bags, get two boarding cards, and apart from security processes at Amsterdam it's seamless transit to Moscow. You don't touch your bag until it arrives, God willing, on the carousel at the Moscow terminal.

Moreover, if you compare the costs of a through ticket on one carrier (say KLM) from a UK airport via Amsterdam to pretty well anywhere, with adding the costs of two separate tickets (UK-AMS then AMS-destination) the latter option will almost always be more expensive.

This is why EMA simply fails East Midlands business by not being able to offer a proper ailrine service, with interline connections via anywhere other than Brussels through British Midland and the Star Alliance hub there - and Brussels is by no means the best interlining hub in Europe.

egnxema is quite correct in that instead of having pipe-dreams about long haul the management needs to start sorting out "proper" airline services to serve the business community, most of whom currently travel either via BHX or MAN.

GayFriendly 15th Aug 2010 09:37

A very interesting post by ATNotts.

At EMA it would seem you are crying out for the flights and interlining opportunities for business travel that BHX is IMO well served by (LH, LX, SN, AF, KL CO (for now!) and EK) whereas leisure users of BHX are increasingly being forced to travel to EMA (amongst others, LTN, LPL, BRS) to take non stop 'leisure/optional travel' flights to destinations across Europe that are not Spain or the Canaries (of course you can interline to FCO, MAD, VIE, TXL and so on and so on from BHX but at a vastly higher price and with a huge time penalty compared to a direct loco flight) What a strange situation :rolleyes:

The problem it would seem is: is there enough demand in the region to have both airports hosting a range of short and long haul destinations by both full service and loco carriers? The answer it would appear is not really - full service congregate (and do well) at BHX whilst loco seems to thrive a lot better at EMA than BHX. I am not saying that EMA could not support a full service interline carrier - I think KLM would be great, they have gone great guns at LPL and dont see any reason why they cant do so at EMA, but for now it seems that we have somewhat needless full service airport/loco airport divide in the Midlands leaving travelers of all persuasions frustrated!

EI-BUD 15th Aug 2010 12:08


is there enough demand in the region to have both airports hosting a range of short and long haul destinations by both full service and loco carriers? The answer it would appear is not really - full service congregate (and do well) at BHX whilst loco seems to thrive a lot better at EMA than BHX
This is a fair point gayfriendly. I was in BHX Friday and I felt that the place is majorly underserved in the afternoon/evening at times very few aircraft around, surprising given that Birmingham is the UKs second city. People on my flight that I was chatting to seem to recognise EMA as an alternative LOCO airport, and I fear that the airlines will feel this too. Moreover, BHX will be as aggressive in trying to woo full service airlines and I doubt any of the BHX legacy carriers would be too interested in EMA in these times.

Interestingly, what is the approx annual traffic at BHX?

BHX5DME 15th Aug 2010 13:42

EI-BUD

BHX is currently at 8.7m pax, it was as high as 9.6m a few years ago.

The current facilities could handle twice this amount, so yes well under utilised.

We should be in the 17m-20m pax range by now on par with STN & MAN.

As you say Birmingham is the second UK city and its airport has historically under acheived, hopefully things will pick up soon and with the forthcoming runway extension I do thing long haul opertors will see BHX as a London alternative.


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