BA staff walkout @ LHR
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys and gals
When you've finished all of your posturing, the brass tacks are that the folks who suffer most from this episode are the folks who can do nothing about it (no, not ATC!!). THE PAX.
They really are getting the sh**ty end of the stick. After all, they are only tring to get home/away.
There are ways and means of taking industrial action, strikes are an entirely valid method of making a point to an intransigent management IMHO. However, a sneaky, co-ordinated mass walk out without union approval is NOT. The whole world is hard done to and to think that you're more hard done to than the next guy is pathetic. There are people out there without jobs, starving and being forced to do crap for f**k all.
My message to you all is, yeah, strike if you need to but, for the love of God, go the right way about it so that the travelling public can at least make arrangements to avoid the outcome.
P7
When you've finished all of your posturing, the brass tacks are that the folks who suffer most from this episode are the folks who can do nothing about it (no, not ATC!!). THE PAX.
They really are getting the sh**ty end of the stick. After all, they are only tring to get home/away.
There are ways and means of taking industrial action, strikes are an entirely valid method of making a point to an intransigent management IMHO. However, a sneaky, co-ordinated mass walk out without union approval is NOT. The whole world is hard done to and to think that you're more hard done to than the next guy is pathetic. There are people out there without jobs, starving and being forced to do crap for f**k all.
My message to you all is, yeah, strike if you need to but, for the love of God, go the right way about it so that the travelling public can at least make arrangements to avoid the outcome.
P7
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: About to join the A1, UK
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ncusack - I fear that a lot of them probably do need a lecture - and therein lies the problem - leadership (on the shop floor), and its' failure to lecture those that need it on the realities of running airlines in 2003.
It's not that difficult an equation to fathom, and so, given the prevailing environment, today's action borders on the suicidal. Look through the keyhole - 9/11, followed by Gulf War II, followed by SARs, followed by the strong re-emergence of the American Flagship airlines (brought about by Chapter 11/re-structuring etc) and yet more trans-atlantic price wars = the most difficult trading regime ever for BA and a cash burn of £1million, per day, for the foreseeable future.
Mark this day as a the moment BA was delivered a mortal blow thanks to poor judgement and even poorer leadership (on the shop floor).
It's not that difficult an equation to fathom, and so, given the prevailing environment, today's action borders on the suicidal. Look through the keyhole - 9/11, followed by Gulf War II, followed by SARs, followed by the strong re-emergence of the American Flagship airlines (brought about by Chapter 11/re-structuring etc) and yet more trans-atlantic price wars = the most difficult trading regime ever for BA and a cash burn of £1million, per day, for the foreseeable future.
Mark this day as a the moment BA was delivered a mortal blow thanks to poor judgement and even poorer leadership (on the shop floor).
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone who does the job they're paid to do has nothing to fear from 'swiping' on & off the job. Wonder what the "fortress LHR" union bully boys have to fear ?
Like many of you I've encountered very hard working & loyal ground staff, but the few union rulers (can't bring myself to call them workers) do not have their interests at heart, only their own. They have led them straight into a situation which may cost many of them their jobs.
They've been taking the **** for years whilst LGW takes the flak, now BA has spent the last year or so working through the list of easier things to do there's nothing left but doing the hard stuff.
There's no way they can afford to back down over this, and I can't see there being any public support for this action either.
The sad thing is the people who orchestrated this are going to take many other hard workers down with them.
PS - also re earlier comment, concorde auction thingy is donating profit to charity (after marketing costs) according to the leaflet I saw.
Like many of you I've encountered very hard working & loyal ground staff, but the few union rulers (can't bring myself to call them workers) do not have their interests at heart, only their own. They have led them straight into a situation which may cost many of them their jobs.
They've been taking the **** for years whilst LGW takes the flak, now BA has spent the last year or so working through the list of easier things to do there's nothing left but doing the hard stuff.
There's no way they can afford to back down over this, and I can't see there being any public support for this action either.
The sad thing is the people who orchestrated this are going to take many other hard workers down with them.
PS - also re earlier comment, concorde auction thingy is donating profit to charity (after marketing costs) according to the leaflet I saw.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Point Seven: When you've finished all of your posturing, the brass tacks are that the folks who suffer most from this episode are the folks who can do nothing about it (no, not ATC!!). THE PAX.
They really are getting the sh**ty end of the stick. After all, they are only tring to get home/away.
There are ways and means of taking industrial action, strikes are an entirely valid method of making a point to an intransigent management IMHO. However, a sneaky, co-ordinated mass walk out without union approval is NOT. The whole world is hard done to and to think that you're more hard done to than the next guy is pathetic. There are people out there without jobs, starving and being forced to do crap for f**k all.
My message to you all is, yeah, strike if you need to but, for the love of God, go the right way about it so that the travelling public can at least make arrangements to avoid the outcome.
They really are getting the sh**ty end of the stick. After all, they are only tring to get home/away.
There are ways and means of taking industrial action, strikes are an entirely valid method of making a point to an intransigent management IMHO. However, a sneaky, co-ordinated mass walk out without union approval is NOT. The whole world is hard done to and to think that you're more hard done to than the next guy is pathetic. There are people out there without jobs, starving and being forced to do crap for f**k all.
My message to you all is, yeah, strike if you need to but, for the love of God, go the right way about it so that the travelling public can at least make arrangements to avoid the outcome.
Well said, Point Seven!You have to ask yourself, if things are really this bad, why isn't the union taking the lead and organising a proper, legal strike that allows the innocent victims to plan around it? Never mind the complaints that staff have about the management - what complaints do they have about their union that we aren't hearing about?
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone who has worked as a member of ground staff will relate to the crappy working conditions that are constantly brought up i.e. 12 hour shifts with no breaks etc. Ground staff may be on £7/hour. Now, forget the "my job is more stressful than your job" childish jibes. Overtired, underpaid, overworked staff is a safety issue, especially airside.
However, I'm not really convinced that those striking are making that their priority, and I'm not convinced that wildcat strikes are the way to go to resolve these long standing issues. As far as I know, these issues were being tackled with the GMB, so the process of ballots etc. may have happened in the future. Perhaps pax would be less frustrated if they had notice of a strike.
However, in reference to the insults thrown at these staff from some on this board. To all you PPruners who may guess who I am, please don't "out" me, but I now work in a well paid job, am a researcher at a university, and can say working with a major carrier at LHR was one of the best jobs I've ever had. It was a laugh, I learnt a lot about people, and had the privilege of working with some very smart colleagues. Smarter than many in my current environment.
Whether someone is competent in their job does not always mean they need umpteen letters after their name and years of specialist training. They need the personality and skills for that particular post. Granted, some at BA won't have these. But name me a company in the world that doesn't have personel problems?
However, I'm not really convinced that those striking are making that their priority, and I'm not convinced that wildcat strikes are the way to go to resolve these long standing issues. As far as I know, these issues were being tackled with the GMB, so the process of ballots etc. may have happened in the future. Perhaps pax would be less frustrated if they had notice of a strike.
However, in reference to the insults thrown at these staff from some on this board. To all you PPruners who may guess who I am, please don't "out" me, but I now work in a well paid job, am a researcher at a university, and can say working with a major carrier at LHR was one of the best jobs I've ever had. It was a laugh, I learnt a lot about people, and had the privilege of working with some very smart colleagues. Smarter than many in my current environment.
Whether someone is competent in their job does not always mean they need umpteen letters after their name and years of specialist training. They need the personality and skills for that particular post. Granted, some at BA won't have these. But name me a company in the world that doesn't have personel problems?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nurjio - just one omission in an otherwise very sensible post:
followed by the strong re-emergence of the American Flagship airlines (brought about by Chapter 11/re-structuring etc and multi-billion dollar state subsidies)
It should also be borne in mind that over the last 7 days there has been immense disgruntlement amongst the ground staff about a new security restriction on staff travel, which has led some staff to be deliberately obstructive and downright bloody-minded towards some of their colleagues using staff travel. There were mutterings about industrial action from several groups during the week, and I suspect that elements of petulance and sour grapes may have a hand to play in this dispute.
followed by the strong re-emergence of the American Flagship airlines (brought about by Chapter 11/re-structuring etc and multi-billion dollar state subsidies)
It should also be borne in mind that over the last 7 days there has been immense disgruntlement amongst the ground staff about a new security restriction on staff travel, which has led some staff to be deliberately obstructive and downright bloody-minded towards some of their colleagues using staff travel. There were mutterings about industrial action from several groups during the week, and I suspect that elements of petulance and sour grapes may have a hand to play in this dispute.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Country
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nurjio
There is a very old saying - 'Management get the unions they deserve'
If the management were a teensy bit competant, you wouldn't have had this action in the first place.
therein lies the problem - leadership (on the shop floor),
If the management were a teensy bit competant, you wouldn't have had this action in the first place.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London,England
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
re:
This might just act as a catalyst for further outsourcing.Some seem to think that BA owes them a living just as BA face the biggest combination of threats in their history.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My final post on this sad subject;
They only "got a 3% pay rise"!!
Well, Jet II, who promised them any payrise at all? Where is it written that they will get a payrise each year? Get real dude, ask how many pilots have had a payrise at all this year? Ask how many My Travel pilots have had a payrise and whether that is their major concern? Ask Monarch pilots, who has had a pay rise? Ask anyone! These guys are happy to have a job!
Yet, the fact that the blond bimbos and other "educated" types haven't been offered a 3% rise, gives them grounds to ruin their employers business, is ok? I say again...sack the lot and recruit people that want and need a job and who might show some loyalty to those that pay their wages.
Yes, let us all be paid the salary of a brain surgeon, then we can freely give some 'grey matter' to those that need it most
They only "got a 3% pay rise"!!
Well, Jet II, who promised them any payrise at all? Where is it written that they will get a payrise each year? Get real dude, ask how many pilots have had a payrise at all this year? Ask how many My Travel pilots have had a payrise and whether that is their major concern? Ask Monarch pilots, who has had a pay rise? Ask anyone! These guys are happy to have a job!
Yet, the fact that the blond bimbos and other "educated" types haven't been offered a 3% rise, gives them grounds to ruin their employers business, is ok? I say again...sack the lot and recruit people that want and need a job and who might show some loyalty to those that pay their wages.
Yes, let us all be paid the salary of a brain surgeon, then we can freely give some 'grey matter' to those that need it most
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ground Crews
Would everyone who in their posts advocates that all ground staff should be sacked, and are lazy and unintelligent, please take a moment to re-consider their words.
Although a tiny minority of ground staff do fit into that category, I assure you that the vast majority of ground staff that I work with at least are dedicated, hard working, and do everything within their power (which is often limited) to get each and every flight away on time.
We are on pitiful pay (less than £6 per hour), and we do work long hours. 24 hours is very unusual, but not unheard of in my place, however, 12-16 hour shifts are frequent.
Many of the employees where I work are either uni students on summer break, or people who have been in the industry for many years and have a wealth of experience behind them.
I am a dispatcher at STN, and had the misfortune of working this evening, for the company that handles BA diversions.
Luckily for us, we only had 4 aircraft into STN, 2 x 767's and 2 x small A320 family (didn't get as far as finding out which variant) - but the pressure that put us under was immense.
Yes passengers had to endure more than 2 hours on the aircraft, and my heart does go out to the crews (especially cabin crew) who had to deal with 300+ angry and tired pax. I am sorry for the 2 aircraft (the 2 767's I believe) that at different stages requested immediate police presence at the aircraft due to "near rioting" on board.
I promise you, we were doing our best to get you sorted out. Funnily enough, we were short staffed this evening, even before your 4 aircraft arrived, 10 minutes apart, and with 20 minutes notice!
Give a thought to the ground crews who will now offer to stay on for several hours after the end of their scheduled shift in order to help get these aircraft, and passengers, back where they should be.
Although a tiny minority of ground staff do fit into that category, I assure you that the vast majority of ground staff that I work with at least are dedicated, hard working, and do everything within their power (which is often limited) to get each and every flight away on time.
We are on pitiful pay (less than £6 per hour), and we do work long hours. 24 hours is very unusual, but not unheard of in my place, however, 12-16 hour shifts are frequent.
Many of the employees where I work are either uni students on summer break, or people who have been in the industry for many years and have a wealth of experience behind them.
I am a dispatcher at STN, and had the misfortune of working this evening, for the company that handles BA diversions.
Luckily for us, we only had 4 aircraft into STN, 2 x 767's and 2 x small A320 family (didn't get as far as finding out which variant) - but the pressure that put us under was immense.
Yes passengers had to endure more than 2 hours on the aircraft, and my heart does go out to the crews (especially cabin crew) who had to deal with 300+ angry and tired pax. I am sorry for the 2 aircraft (the 2 767's I believe) that at different stages requested immediate police presence at the aircraft due to "near rioting" on board.
I promise you, we were doing our best to get you sorted out. Funnily enough, we were short staffed this evening, even before your 4 aircraft arrived, 10 minutes apart, and with 20 minutes notice!
Give a thought to the ground crews who will now offer to stay on for several hours after the end of their scheduled shift in order to help get these aircraft, and passengers, back where they should be.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Imo, one of the prime causes of airlines having industrial problems, and eventually going down the tube, is the performance bonus paid to management.
For them to get their £x million annual supplement to their "basic award", they need to continually trim away to show an increase in the bottom line.
It is this ridiculous bonus system based on GREED, that has the (already) Fat Cats now at the stage where they can only retrench staff at the coalface, to further pad their bulging wallets.
Point Seven, it IS the passengers who can do something about the problem. Once the bottom line is affected, management will sit up and take notice - because THEY...or at least their expected bonus.....is affected.
It's past time to put an end to management "performance bonuses". Like every other staff member, pay them a set salary to do the job.
If they underperform, replace them.
And for the poster who stated that his "wife is a doctor who works 24 hour shifts", my comment to you, and she, is "How totally IRRESPONSIBLE for a person with that amount of responsibility, to do that!".
Please post her name and the place where she works - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one of her customers/patients!!
For them to get their £x million annual supplement to their "basic award", they need to continually trim away to show an increase in the bottom line.
It is this ridiculous bonus system based on GREED, that has the (already) Fat Cats now at the stage where they can only retrench staff at the coalface, to further pad their bulging wallets.
Point Seven, it IS the passengers who can do something about the problem. Once the bottom line is affected, management will sit up and take notice - because THEY...or at least their expected bonus.....is affected.
It's past time to put an end to management "performance bonuses". Like every other staff member, pay them a set salary to do the job.
If they underperform, replace them.
And for the poster who stated that his "wife is a doctor who works 24 hour shifts", my comment to you, and she, is "How totally IRRESPONSIBLE for a person with that amount of responsibility, to do that!".
Please post her name and the place where she works - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one of her customers/patients!!
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M
How crass of you!
Just hope she doesn't know your real name, so that when you are on the slab she doesn't make a wrong slip of the scalpel when you need it most!
The fact is that doctors DO work those hours, right or wrong. What would you say if THEY all walked out during your moment of need, such as in a heart attack? I think I know your answer, dude. Would you really care if the only doctor had been on duty for 24 hours? "No, sorry, my heart attack can wait till the next shift arrives in 6 hours time"! I think not!
Don't compare priorities
How crass of you!
Just hope she doesn't know your real name, so that when you are on the slab she doesn't make a wrong slip of the scalpel when you need it most!
The fact is that doctors DO work those hours, right or wrong. What would you say if THEY all walked out during your moment of need, such as in a heart attack? I think I know your answer, dude. Would you really care if the only doctor had been on duty for 24 hours? "No, sorry, my heart attack can wait till the next shift arrives in 6 hours time"! I think not!
Don't compare priorities
Paxing All Over The World
I can well believe that BA do not treat their staff as well as they should.
I can well believe that BA staff work like crazy.
I can well believe many of the things that have been said here.
But ... taking unannounced strike action is not clever. Not clever at all. Plan it, try and negotiate around it but to just walk out? No, they have cooked themselves in very hot oil. They will (probably) find themselves in breach of contract and other things besides. They have handed their management their heads on a plate. The management will, in all probability, be able to use this to push through other changes that they might not have been planning.
Unannounced strike action is 25 years out of date. I am astounded that an entire group of staff can be led in this way. Whatever they might have felt about their jobs and their management, this cannot be the way to handle it.
I can well believe that BA staff work like crazy.
I can well believe many of the things that have been said here.
But ... taking unannounced strike action is not clever. Not clever at all. Plan it, try and negotiate around it but to just walk out? No, they have cooked themselves in very hot oil. They will (probably) find themselves in breach of contract and other things besides. They have handed their management their heads on a plate. The management will, in all probability, be able to use this to push through other changes that they might not have been planning.
Unannounced strike action is 25 years out of date. I am astounded that an entire group of staff can be led in this way. Whatever they might have felt about their jobs and their management, this cannot be the way to handle it.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: _
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the hot oil BIG TIME !!!
PAXBoy - yours are the most sensible and unfortunately, truest comments on this thread.
Under the most recent re-work of employment law, my understanding is that the strikers are not only in breach of contract, but every single person who walked off this evening is PERSONALLY FINANCIALLY LIABLE for any loss, material or (and here's the important bit) financial suffered by their employer as a consequence of their actions...and trust me, the employer will know to the nearest 10p how much that amount is per striker.
Maybe some of the landside brain-dead should have considered this before they downed tools...too late...looks like lots of houses are going to be for sale in the LHR area to pay the legal bills - what a bunch of misguided, easily led fools.
Under the most recent re-work of employment law, my understanding is that the strikers are not only in breach of contract, but every single person who walked off this evening is PERSONALLY FINANCIALLY LIABLE for any loss, material or (and here's the important bit) financial suffered by their employer as a consequence of their actions...and trust me, the employer will know to the nearest 10p how much that amount is per striker.
Maybe some of the landside brain-dead should have considered this before they downed tools...too late...looks like lots of houses are going to be for sale in the LHR area to pay the legal bills - what a bunch of misguided, easily led fools.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here here Fast Jet Wannabee. It was interesting for us at STN for a while to say the least. 767's and A320's arriving at one of our busiest times of the evening.
BA had it coming to them, and them and a few other companies better take note. No ground staff = no flights, its as simple as that. It appears the management at BA have completely misjudged the mood of their people. That is appalling management.
So the solution - sack everyone? And you suppose after this walkout there are going to be thousands of people just jumping at the bit to fill the boots of those booted out. I think not.
BA had it coming to them, and them and a few other companies better take note. No ground staff = no flights, its as simple as that. It appears the management at BA have completely misjudged the mood of their people. That is appalling management.
So the solution - sack everyone? And you suppose after this walkout there are going to be thousands of people just jumping at the bit to fill the boots of those booted out. I think not.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: EGNT
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, Jack the F
ing Lad.
Your profile shows your occupation as Pilot. How do you reconcile this?
"I run my own business and work seven days a week, 52 weeks a year"
Strikes me that you may be some kind of a liar.
HST
ing Lad. Your profile shows your occupation as Pilot. How do you reconcile this?
"I run my own business and work seven days a week, 52 weeks a year"
Strikes me that you may be some kind of a liar.
HST
Eight Gun Fighter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Western Approaches
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do hesitate to wade into these things.
Assumptions:
Walkout due to implementation of time recording procedure already in place at other terminals. Not an unreasonable thing is accurate time recording. Rather a standard practice in most industries in most of the world.
Other terminal personnel did not walk out over this.
Their union(s) did not seemingly support this action.
Action in violation of current contract (a legally binding agreement between two or more parties).
There was a great deal of cost to customers.
There was a great deal of cost to employer.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of the employer this was a stupid thing to do and will likely result in financial sanctions to the participants and not the union(s).
Anyone ever hear about sub-contracting out job roles for cause? Happens every day.
This was not the way to go about things.
Assumptions:
Walkout due to implementation of time recording procedure already in place at other terminals. Not an unreasonable thing is accurate time recording. Rather a standard practice in most industries in most of the world.
Other terminal personnel did not walk out over this.
Their union(s) did not seemingly support this action.
Action in violation of current contract (a legally binding agreement between two or more parties).
There was a great deal of cost to customers.
There was a great deal of cost to employer.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of the employer this was a stupid thing to do and will likely result in financial sanctions to the participants and not the union(s).
Anyone ever hear about sub-contracting out job roles for cause? Happens every day.
This was not the way to go about things.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What gets me in all of this - no mention of BAA.
What a week for them - first a committee of MPs callas the BAA management a bunch of liars and calls for their stranglehold on UK airports to be stopped.
Then their major airport grinds to a halt and they do nothing about it.
Why ? Because of the cosy relationship with BA. BA run the ground handling at T1.
Other airlines and other jobs have been put at risk because of this shameful act.
Did BAA step in to help ? Did they hell.
What a week for them - first a committee of MPs callas the BAA management a bunch of liars and calls for their stranglehold on UK airports to be stopped.
Then their major airport grinds to a halt and they do nothing about it.
Why ? Because of the cosy relationship with BA. BA run the ground handling at T1.
Other airlines and other jobs have been put at risk because of this shameful act.
Did BAA step in to help ? Did they hell.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delayfest 2003
Much sympathy for anyone trying to fly on Monday 21st. International Air Tattoo at Fairford. 400 aircraft leave on Monday and a significant number [fighters/formations etc.] use the airway system. Always coincides with the busiest weekend of the school holiday year. It is claimed that steps are taken to minimise disruption to "ordinary traffic" but in my experience there will still be a considerable number of passenger jets stuck on the ground to make way for things with only one seat.