NOW start date
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Yes, Mr jmc-man, and a very good bash it was. However, anything divulged was 'company confidential' and will not be posted here.
It was just a pity that you couldn't be included on the management team where you could lend your expertise to make it even better.
It was just a pity that you couldn't be included on the management team where you could lend your expertise to make it even better.
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The following has been placed on Aviation Job Search today:
B737 CAPTAINS placed on: 26/08/2003
UK
TBC
CAA/ JAR Captains type rated on the B737(300). Longterm contracts starting in November.
Current ATPL. Applicants must have a minimum of 4000hrs TT and 500 hours on type, 350 hrs PIC.
Is this NOW Airlines? Suggests a launch this year.
Other contender might be Jet2. Unlikely to be easyJet; they have a big spread in Flight today looking for Airbus pilots.
B737 CAPTAINS placed on: 26/08/2003
UK
TBC
CAA/ JAR Captains type rated on the B737(300). Longterm contracts starting in November.
Current ATPL. Applicants must have a minimum of 4000hrs TT and 500 hours on type, 350 hrs PIC.
Is this NOW Airlines? Suggests a launch this year.
Other contender might be Jet2. Unlikely to be easyJet; they have a big spread in Flight today looking for Airbus pilots.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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jmc-man............
Yes indeed V9 will be doing his own thing..........................
Running from the CSA after a few of his ex-collegues shopped him after reading in these pages that he has been eluding them for 6 years!!!
Whats that ???? What goes around comes around ?????
EI-CGO
Yes indeed V9 will be doing his own thing..........................
Running from the CSA after a few of his ex-collegues shopped him after reading in these pages that he has been eluding them for 6 years!!!
Whats that ???? What goes around comes around ?????
EI-CGO
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Lots of training going on at GECAT, and Halcyon House growing daily, all seems to be going to plan to me. Lots of EZY resignations to join Now, and many more expected. Cabin crew have had letters with start dates.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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and contracts..???....anyone???....
I have to say...first flights going to be awfully empty if someone doesn't start selling seats soon...unless of course, first flight delayed a little longer.
Thomas Cook Man
I have to say...first flights going to be awfully empty if someone doesn't start selling seats soon...unless of course, first flight delayed a little longer.
Thomas Cook Man
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Spoke to NOW pr people today, basically they don't have a clue when seats are going on sale and when the first flight will be or when it is likely to be. They might just be useless (pritty common for PR companies)
Compare that to AV8Air that are going through AOC now and have provisional dates for the first 767 flight to South Africa and 757 flight a few days later.
I hope NOW is successful but I do feel they have lost some momentum as they had good press earlier and everyone was looking to book flights in July. It will be interesting to see how their model works, it certainly is the fairest form of air transport with no price discrimination!
Time will tell
Sagey
Compare that to AV8Air that are going through AOC now and have provisional dates for the first 767 flight to South Africa and 757 flight a few days later.
I hope NOW is successful but I do feel they have lost some momentum as they had good press earlier and everyone was looking to book flights in July. It will be interesting to see how their model works, it certainly is the fairest form of air transport with no price discrimination!
Time will tell
Sagey
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jmc man
Can i share your champagne that will not be leaving your possession?
NOW are unfortunately not going to be around long, even if they do get in the air at all I think sadly.............
Can i share your champagne that will not be leaving your possession?
NOW are unfortunately not going to be around long, even if they do get in the air at all I think sadly.............
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With Now's advertised pricing policy what capacity is roughly break even point? 60%?, 75% or is that far too low!, and is it obtainable.
I assume NOW have funding either from Venture Capitalists or someone very rich
There prices do seem very competitive, however we all love a bargain and we seem to hear more about Joe Bloggs that got on RyanAir, EasyJet for a £1 plus tax more than the poor sod that had to pay top whack!. That can't happen on NOW but if the % to capacity is too high they will either have to raise prices and hope demand doesn't fall too much to make money or change their pricing policy.
Has NOW sorted out aircraft yet, engineering etc?
From an outsider looking in it doesn't look like everything is going to plan but then again I hope I am very wrong there! and it all goes really well.
Sagey
I assume NOW have funding either from Venture Capitalists or someone very rich
There prices do seem very competitive, however we all love a bargain and we seem to hear more about Joe Bloggs that got on RyanAir, EasyJet for a £1 plus tax more than the poor sod that had to pay top whack!. That can't happen on NOW but if the % to capacity is too high they will either have to raise prices and hope demand doesn't fall too much to make money or change their pricing policy.
Has NOW sorted out aircraft yet, engineering etc?
From an outsider looking in it doesn't look like everything is going to plan but then again I hope I am very wrong there! and it all goes really well.
Sagey
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I think we can assume that NOW haven’t got their funding sorted out otherwise they would be up and running by now. It’s worth remembering that every week money is being paid out in wages etc and so far income is a big fat zero.
This reminds me of LTN based Debonair, an airline that also kept delaying its start date only to start flying already under a mountain of debt that they never recovered from.
This reminds me of LTN based Debonair, an airline that also kept delaying its start date only to start flying already under a mountain of debt that they never recovered from.
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The pricing plan is a PROVEN failure. Laker, Debonair and even GO for a short while ( 1 month) proved that fixed prices mean you lose LOTS of dosh in this industry.
Or maybe someone in NOW knows better than the likes of, say, Southwest eh?
Thomas Cook Man
Or maybe someone in NOW knows better than the likes of, say, Southwest eh?
Thomas Cook Man
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The pricing structure seems competitive and below the average. They advertise Tenerife for £75 each way, well Monarch have flights in Oct for £76 each way from Luton as well. What is the underlying reason why people would choose NOW above Mon or another carrier offering similiar prices.
People search on the Ezy, Ryanair sites because it has been installed into society that they are low cost, now that isn't always the case but I bet it is most peoples first port of call.
NOW has set prices, so people are aware of the prices, surely they are more likely to look around for something cheaper or comparitive and if they can't find it then book with NOW. People IMO will delay booking as there is no incentive to book early to get cheaper deals.
Still interested to know what their capacity figure is to break even.
It certainly has gone quiet, NOW will either be a revolution/ failure or will revert to the traditional low cost model. If funding is a problem and it gets off the ground how long will it be before Ryanair, Easy sniff around to buy it out?.
Sagey
People search on the Ezy, Ryanair sites because it has been installed into society that they are low cost, now that isn't always the case but I bet it is most peoples first port of call.
NOW has set prices, so people are aware of the prices, surely they are more likely to look around for something cheaper or comparitive and if they can't find it then book with NOW. People IMO will delay booking as there is no incentive to book early to get cheaper deals.
Still interested to know what their capacity figure is to break even.
It certainly has gone quiet, NOW will either be a revolution/ failure or will revert to the traditional low cost model. If funding is a problem and it gets off the ground how long will it be before Ryanair, Easy sniff around to buy it out?.
Sagey
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Let's hope that 'Now' DO get off of the ground and make a success of their ideas. Using the 'supermarket' analogy - Go were Waitrose, easyJet were Tesco and Ryanair were Asda - no one is filling that Waitrose slot anymore. I'd actually question whether easyJet are as classy as Tesco - Low Cost always heads the same way - wouldn't it be nice to see something a bit more classy? Having said all of that, if Ryaniar call pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap and be high performers in Punctuality and getting better at customer service why shouldn't it be that way. Ooh I am confused but wish NOW luck! 
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Fixed fares vs variable
I started to daydream...
So here I am, running a no-frills carrier called – oh, I don’t know, "Simpleprop". My plane has five seats and I operate one flight per day, on which I sell the seats at the following prices: the first one at £20, then one at £40, one at £60, one at £80 and the last one (usually sold the day before to a business traveller who just *has* to be at that meeting) at £100. My average yield obviously depends on my load factor, but let’s say I’m averaging 80% (4 out of 5 seats filled on average each day) so that gives me £200/4 = £50 average yield.
All of a sudden this new carrier called "Then Airlines" comes along.
Their cost structure can’t be an awful lot better than mine (they’re smaller, so don’t have the same economies of scale or negotiating leverage, even if they do have some one-off incentives) so I’ll assume their target yield is about the same as mine. But they have flat fares, so *all* their seats are at £50.
Now, on average Simpleprop has 4 passengers per flight. Maybe with the competition, the advertising etc, this’ll stimulate some new business, so the daily total will go up to 6 passengers split between Simpleprop and Then.
Assuming the passengers all shop around for the cheapest fare, the first two will go to Simpleprop (£20 and £40) and the remaining four will all go to Then (£50) because Simpleprop’s cheapest fare is now £60 and Then undercuts them. Simpleprop revenue: £60, Then revenue: £200. Round One to Then?
But at Simpleprop we're not stupid
, and Then’s fixed fares are a very easy target to aim at (unlike other airlines whose yield is a closely guarded commercial secret because it’s the average of a series of different-sized buckets, and also because the bucket sizes change from month to month and day to day to track demand).
Simpleprop thus unveils a new fare structure: first seat is now £40, second is £42, third is £44, fourth is £46, and fifth is £48. (I exaggerate a bit, but you get the idea).
Round two: along come the six passengers, and this time all but one go to Simpleprop. (The fifth goes to Then, because Simpleprop is full.) Simpleprop’s average yield is down (£44, down 12% compared with before Then came along) but Simpleprop's revenue is £220, well up (and since we're ticketless and don't give out free drinks, our passenger-variable costs are low and thus total revenue is more important than yield). Poor old Then only has one passenger, and £50 of revenue, bouncing round their shiny new plane.
Ding-ding. Knockout? )
Which leads me to posit Cyrano's First Maxim of Fixed-Fare Competition: if you are a conventional Low-Cost Carrier competing with a fixed-fare new entrant, compressing your yield buckets and pitching them just below the competitor's fixed fare would seem to be a sound strategy, which reduces your average yield but protects your revenue. The only response the new entrant has is to very publicly reduce their fixed fare (embarrassing) or to differentiate their product quality (the Go approach – a worthy goal, but one which *will * add to costs).
True? False?
(Excuse me, I'm off to work on Fermat's Last Theorem now...
)
So here I am, running a no-frills carrier called – oh, I don’t know, "Simpleprop". My plane has five seats and I operate one flight per day, on which I sell the seats at the following prices: the first one at £20, then one at £40, one at £60, one at £80 and the last one (usually sold the day before to a business traveller who just *has* to be at that meeting) at £100. My average yield obviously depends on my load factor, but let’s say I’m averaging 80% (4 out of 5 seats filled on average each day) so that gives me £200/4 = £50 average yield.
All of a sudden this new carrier called "Then Airlines" comes along.
Their cost structure can’t be an awful lot better than mine (they’re smaller, so don’t have the same economies of scale or negotiating leverage, even if they do have some one-off incentives) so I’ll assume their target yield is about the same as mine. But they have flat fares, so *all* their seats are at £50.Now, on average Simpleprop has 4 passengers per flight. Maybe with the competition, the advertising etc, this’ll stimulate some new business, so the daily total will go up to 6 passengers split between Simpleprop and Then.
Assuming the passengers all shop around for the cheapest fare, the first two will go to Simpleprop (£20 and £40) and the remaining four will all go to Then (£50) because Simpleprop’s cheapest fare is now £60 and Then undercuts them. Simpleprop revenue: £60, Then revenue: £200. Round One to Then?
But at Simpleprop we're not stupid
, and Then’s fixed fares are a very easy target to aim at (unlike other airlines whose yield is a closely guarded commercial secret because it’s the average of a series of different-sized buckets, and also because the bucket sizes change from month to month and day to day to track demand). Simpleprop thus unveils a new fare structure: first seat is now £40, second is £42, third is £44, fourth is £46, and fifth is £48. (I exaggerate a bit, but you get the idea).
Round two: along come the six passengers, and this time all but one go to Simpleprop. (The fifth goes to Then, because Simpleprop is full.) Simpleprop’s average yield is down (£44, down 12% compared with before Then came along) but Simpleprop's revenue is £220, well up (and since we're ticketless and don't give out free drinks, our passenger-variable costs are low and thus total revenue is more important than yield). Poor old Then only has one passenger, and £50 of revenue, bouncing round their shiny new plane.
Ding-ding. Knockout? ) Which leads me to posit Cyrano's First Maxim of Fixed-Fare Competition: if you are a conventional Low-Cost Carrier competing with a fixed-fare new entrant, compressing your yield buckets and pitching them just below the competitor's fixed fare would seem to be a sound strategy, which reduces your average yield but protects your revenue. The only response the new entrant has is to very publicly reduce their fixed fare (embarrassing) or to differentiate their product quality (the Go approach – a worthy goal, but one which *will * add to costs).
True? False?
(Excuse me, I'm off to work on Fermat's Last Theorem now...
)
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But, step up to the next big picture and it could look like this:
Simpleprop is in bitter competition with its bigger rival 'Cheap'n'nasty'. It can't afford to lower its profit margins one little dicky bit to compete with Then Airlines. Cheap'n'nasty makes money on a different patch and won't bother to compete against Then Airlines leaving Simpleprop to shed the blood.
Then Airlines knows that Simpleprop dicks its pilots about something rotten and has BIG problems keeping and recruiting more pilots. Then Airlines knows that creating a good culture attracts good people who do a good job and create a good product which people keep buying.
Furthermore Then Airlines wants to get lots of suits flying. Suits don't fly with Cheap'n'nasty because its airports are in the Boon Docks too far away from the office. Furthermore Suits have a problem getting shafted at the last minute by Simleprops yield management sting. They want a fixed ticket price so their accountants can budget for regular travel.
Then Airlines takes a Macro Macro view of things and knows that there is market share for a second generation low cost carrier in Southern Blighty. However, second generation low cost carriers must offer a cool attitude to the customer. Then Airlines angle on this is that you start by creating a cool culture for the pilots with an equally cool set of terms and conditions!
Simpleprop is in bitter competition with its bigger rival 'Cheap'n'nasty'. It can't afford to lower its profit margins one little dicky bit to compete with Then Airlines. Cheap'n'nasty makes money on a different patch and won't bother to compete against Then Airlines leaving Simpleprop to shed the blood.
Then Airlines knows that Simpleprop dicks its pilots about something rotten and has BIG problems keeping and recruiting more pilots. Then Airlines knows that creating a good culture attracts good people who do a good job and create a good product which people keep buying.
Furthermore Then Airlines wants to get lots of suits flying. Suits don't fly with Cheap'n'nasty because its airports are in the Boon Docks too far away from the office. Furthermore Suits have a problem getting shafted at the last minute by Simleprops yield management sting. They want a fixed ticket price so their accountants can budget for regular travel.
Then Airlines takes a Macro Macro view of things and knows that there is market share for a second generation low cost carrier in Southern Blighty. However, second generation low cost carriers must offer a cool attitude to the customer. Then Airlines angle on this is that you start by creating a cool culture for the pilots with an equally cool set of terms and conditions!