Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Carlisle-3

Old 4th Jun 2021, 13:26
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,430
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
With COP26 being held in the UK later this year and Boris wanting to be seen to be green with regards to CO2 over the next few years.... I'm beginning to wonder if Carlisle will ever see regular scheduled airline service again

It's looking like it might join the club of Sheffield (not Doncaster), Plymouth, Gloucestershire, Oxford, Manston, Swansea, Shoreham and Lydd

For those who would decry my opinion... I paid for a ticket and flew CAX-SEN in 2019
davidjohnson6 is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2021, 13:43
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 7,830
Received 22 Likes on 15 Posts
How would the govt achieve this - they can't introduce something impacting one airport, it would have to impact the industry as a whole.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2021, 13:51
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,430
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
There may be some form of (additional) tax in the UK on flying or aviation CO2 emissions, with a possible exemption for PSO links to offshore islands. This will make a potential CAX-LON route even more marginal. I don't think Carlisle is a viable passenger airport just to send people across the Irish Sea
davidjohnson6 is online now  
Old 5th Jun 2021, 03:44
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Correct, not a viable passenger airport, or should that be not a viable stand-alone passenger airport?

The first thing that it would need is a route, served 12 times weekly, morning/evening Sunday evening thru Saturday morning, to an international hub, AMS wouldn't be viable unless on a codeshare with KLM which wouldn't be likely as KLM are already serving all airports, NCL, MME, GLA, LBA & MAN, surrounding CAX.

The only London airport that may be viable is LHR because some 50% of the passengers would not be destination London but destination international, Carlisle to London/Euston might be just 3.5 hours by train but Carlisle to Heathrow is some 4.75 hours and includes 2 changes and walks up/down escalators of 5 or 10 minutes each, complete with suitcases etc. Across the Irish Sea, both BHD & DUB, did appear to be settling nicely in to a viable schedule when operated previously, then there is the opportunity for summer weekend flights, Channel Islands, Ireland or wherever.

I understand that CAX had quite a thriving flying club activity until the current owners urinated them off, well what better opportunity for new owners to either develop their own flying club business, across the old side of the airfield, and/or encourage the ex residents to return. Reading thru private pilot threads much of the time they are discussing which airfields offer the better deals along with the better grub, trainee pilots need x-country's as part of their training, other pilots need to build up hours just to qualify for a commercial licence, make the landing/navigation fees attractive along with a talked-about flying club cafe/bar and the business shall surely come in.

Encourage an on-site maintenance facility with attractive ground rent charges, it doesn't matter if it may be for choppers, light twins or whatever, it shall bring aircraft movements, landing/navigation charges, fuel etc., in.

CAX has the RAF Spadeadam training range as a neighbour, CAX has benefited from military movements previously, market the MoD to come in for refuels, landing/navigation charges, fuel, perhaps overnight parking, and these military types aren't proud, if the grub is good they'll be in the flying club for their pie & chips or whatever and the word shall spread amongst the squadron(s), they'll all be coming in there!

And should the new owners have their own in-house airline, and particularly once any franchise contract in Ireland may be completed, where more appropriate that they base their airline and maintenance facility than at their own in-house airport?

And what about the darn great on-site 'Stobart Group' warehouse facility, I'd imagine that the ground rent alone for that would be quite significant.

There's money to be made in them there hills, perhaps not in great abundance but money to be made all the same.
Pat UK is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2021, 09:45
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SW Scotland
Age: 40
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Ettyl deal appears to be dead: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...dJrP4IjU3zyfmQ

The article is behind a paywall, however the gist of it is that Ettyl have informed the police of some irregularities with one of their proposed funders. As a result, they no longer have the funds in place to complete the deal, but are working on securing additional funding.

From what I'm hearing though, there's a little more to the story than the article implies. I'm sure more information will be out soon when the police begin their investigations.
nighthawk117 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2021, 10:00
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SW Scotland
Age: 40
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pat UK
The first thing that it would need is a route, served 12 times weekly, morning/evening Sunday evening thru Saturday morning, to an international hub, AMS wouldn't be viable unless on a codeshare with KLM which wouldn't be likely as KLM are already serving all airports, NCL, MME, GLA, LBA & MAN, surrounding CAX.
I would say AMS is the most likely to happen - KLM have been quite good at serving the smaller regional airports. I dont think the fact they serve airports around CAX is significant - if there's a market there to sustain a flight, they'll serve it. No other airline has expressed much interest in serving regional airports - I cant see Lufthansa or Air France offering flights to CAX.

The only London airport that may be viable is LHR because some 50% of the passengers would not be destination London but destination international, Carlisle to London/Euston might be just 3.5 hours by train but Carlisle to Heathrow is some 4.75 hours and includes 2 changes and walks up/down escalators of 5 or 10 minutes each, complete with suitcases etc. Across the Irish Sea, both BHD & DUB, did appear to be settling nicely in to a viable schedule when operated previously, then there is the opportunity for summer weekend flights, Channel Islands, Ireland or wherever.
As part of the decision to approve Heathrows 3rd runway, there was a requirement to launch routes to new domestic locations. Flybe were a big proponent of this, and released a route plan featuring Carlisle. Obviously they have gone now... so that looks unlikely to happen.

I understand that CAX had quite a thriving flying club activity until the current owners urinated them off, well what better opportunity for new owners to either develop their own flying club business, across the old side of the airfield, and/or encourage the ex residents to return. Reading thru private pilot threads much of the time they are discussing which airfields offer the better deals along with the better grub, trainee pilots need x-country's as part of their training, other pilots need to build up hours just to qualify for a commercial licence, make the landing/navigation fees attractive along with a talked-about flying club cafe/bar and the business shall surely come in.
One of the flying clubs initially threatened to pull out, but I believe they were persuaded to stay. I dont think there's been much decline in flying club activity at the airport - other than during the periods where the airport has been closed. It should recover pretty quickly. I'm not sure there's much room here for growth - there are a lot of GA airfields out there all vying for the same business.

Encourage an on-site maintenance facility with attractive ground rent charges, it doesn't matter if it may be for choppers, light twins or whatever, it shall bring aircraft movements, landing/navigation charges, fuel etc., in.
In order to sustain a maintenance facility, you need a college pumping out graduates with the relevant degrees. There are no colleges around here offering courses in aircraft engineering or similar, so you'd struggle to find the workers. Again there are lots of facilities nearby all vying for the same business. Part of the early plans for the redevelopment did include a significant sized aircraft storage area, however this idea was dropped, and the land has now been split off for office/warehouse development instead.

CAX has the RAF Spadeadam training range as a neighbour, CAX has benefited from military movements previously, market the MoD to come in for refuels, landing/navigation charges, fuel, perhaps overnight parking, and these military types aren't proud, if the grub is good they'll be in the flying club for their pie & chips or whatever and the word shall spread amongst the squadron(s), they'll all be coming in there!
For the RAF, there are plenty of existing bases nearby that they can (and do) use. CAX has picked up a bit of work from the Dutch in the past who have based themselves at the airport for training. There may be a possibility of expanding this, but its not a huge market. Prestwick has positioned itself quite nicely as a transit base for air crew, so would pose significant competition for this market.


And what about the darn great on-site 'Stobart Group' warehouse facility, I'd imagine that the ground rent alone for that would be quite significant.

There's money to be made in them there hills, perhaps not in great abundance but money to be made all the same.
The stobart warehouse will indeed provide significant revenue, as will the land allocated for additional industrial needs next to it. Hopefully that will be enough to keep the airport operating, although I doubt we'll see much more flying than we do now.
nighthawk117 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2021, 15:30
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CAX international Flights

Unlike the old days before Brexit, an international flight by an EU (GB airline obviously would be in this bracket) airline for intra EU route would just declare its intention freedom to conduct business in EU without Barriers. The Home Office would then need to provide Border Force Officers​​​​​​ to cover that flight. These days new EU routes will need permission of the Home Office and IF they get permission, theyĎll (airport authorities) need to pay for the accommodation ie offices, X-rays, front desks, Secondary Examination area and all infrastructure that is in legislation. I donít think Stobbart will want to pay that cost for possibility of a twice day E-jet.
GLAEDI is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2021, 09:04
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stobart Air

Stobart Air ceases operations.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...91913?mode=amp
Back at NH is online now  
Old 13th Jun 2021, 05:50
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Scotland
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to BBC website:

'Esken is to retain ownership of Carlisle Lake District Airport, which it also owns, but has said it will "actively explore strategic options for the use of this asset".

The business said it would hold discussions with stakeholders "including potential alternative commercial opportunities for the airport".'

Esken are the owners of Stobart Air.
Forfoxake is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2021, 10:30
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,179
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
davidjohnson6

IMHO total waste of time trying to operate Public Air Transport flights in Class G airspace unless you have the ability to provide a surveillance service, which is either going to have to be contracted out or provided locally. The first option expensive, the second ludicrously expensive with both unlikely to see a return on the investment.

The lack of a surveillance service at Sheffield City was probably a significant factor causing it’s demise, after looking at the number of Airproxes/Occurrence Reports relating to their traffic.
TCAS FAN is online now  
Old 14th Jun 2021, 14:14
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 7,830
Received 22 Likes on 15 Posts
Following the announcement of Stobart Air's liquidation, Ettyl issued the following response: “In response to the decision of the Board of Stobart Air to appoint a liquidator to the business and to cease operations, our thoughts are with all the staff and passengers affected."

The spokesman added: "Ettyl Limited can confirm that it has received termination notices from Esken in respect of the proposed transactions for Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport.”

Former Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler said he still believes Carlisle Airport has a viable future. He said: "At the end of the day, the airport is still there. It just needs the right person to rescue it."
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/1...-takeover-bid/
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 14th Jun 2021, 20:38
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ĎRescue ití sounds more like something associated with the Titanic than a profitable, exciting going concern..
CabinCrewe is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 10:16
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 7,830
Received 22 Likes on 15 Posts
Now NOTAM'd closed until 26 October.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 10:22
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So Stobartís ownership has wrecked a general aviation airfield with its grand plans or was it all about getting planning permission for a distribution centre and the closing of the airfield was all part of the big plan from day one.
LTNman is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 10:36
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: on the border line
Posts: 548
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LTNman…. now that’s a thought😀
highwideandugly is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 12:14
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: North of Dorking
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I woudn`t be the least bit suprised.
Dorking is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 13:04
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So was first closed due to a lack of trained ATC staff so what is the excuse now?
LTNman is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 13:51
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SW Scotland
Age: 40
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The airfield wasn't "closed" during this period, it was still open to non-commercial ops such as military, business jets and GA. They just werent able to operate commercial flights due to insufficient training of ATC personnel.

Now however the airport is "closed" to all traffic except based aircraft.
nighthawk117 is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 14:05
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 7,830
Received 22 Likes on 15 Posts
NOTAM is headed "COVID-19 INFORMATION"
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 19:25
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So while the U.K. is opening up with all restrictions removed Carlisle goes into lockdown
LTNman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.