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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 19th Aug 2022, 19:03
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ignoring or offering less incentive to other opportunities to develop the airport.
Such as??
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 19:06
  #482 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ
You misunderstand me, there is no blame on Jet2, only on Peel for their naive dependence and I suspect a level of honour to TUI, ignoring or offering less incentive to other opportunities to develop the airport. TUI alone were a gamble to give them 3m passengers, but I guess in 2005 nobody saw Jet 2 taking the market the way they have. By 2010 surely this should have been realised. Looking at other seemingly sustainable airports 3m passengers is the sweet spot where the negative turns into positive with the right retail and car parking returns, but they knew this from the beginning.
Thats fair enough, but we donít know who DSA have been trying to attract so anything else is conjecture. They had to have a flagship operator and TUI were a good loyal choice in my view. Theyíve just been unable to build on that for whatever reason, and I believe one reason is lack of sufficient demand due to too many competitor airports in the vicinity. The last thing any airline wants to do is compete with itself on price. Wouldnít have too many airlines around if they all did that. That brings us back to DSAís location and itís proximity to some fairly major players.
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 19:46
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where is the Church Fenton International yahoo these days?
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 19:48
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Originally Posted by pug
TUI were a good loyal choice in my view. Theyíve just been unable to build on that for whatever reason, and I believe one reason is lack of sufficient demand due to too many competitor airports in the vicinityÖ..That brings us back to DSAís location and itís proximity to some fairly major players.
TUI were a safe bet..they didnít offer the terms to Monarch when they could have (I know that didnít work out for anyone) demand is for the flights/holidays not the airport, regardless of Departure location (within a region/reasonable travel time) whoever offers the right product at the right price will win the custom. If it survives DSA needs to fight hard for the operators (plural) that offer the product, rather than stay safe (with TUI). Iím not bashing TUI here, the current DSA would be nothing without them.
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 19:55
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Originally Posted by sherburn2LA
where is the Church Fenton International yahoo these days?
Don't start!!
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 20:06
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Let's face it Leeds Bradford is crap, always has been crap, and as they have given up with the new terminal always will be crap. People go there because it's convenient and there are flights. As a Doncaster resident, I used to go to Manchester as it took not much longer and the airport was better (which is saying something). Obviously, that was when DSA was not an option.

DSA needs to up its stake on convenience and routes. It does have some strengths that LBA does not. The topography, the runway length etc meaning it's suitable for long haul and Cargo.

There are rumours that at one point Virgin wanted to establish a Northern Hub, but could not agree on terms with Peel. While I'm a bit skeptical, I can see the logic...

I'm pleasantly surprised if they have extended the consultation period, although if this is extended too long it's just going to be slow death by a thousand paper cuts.
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 20:12
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People go there because it's convenient and there are flights.
Two pretty good advantages there

DSA needs to up its stake on convenience and routes.
So gamble even more money with little guarantee of getting it back?

The topography, the runway length etc meaning it's suitable for long haul and Cargo.
What real advantages does the longer runway give, especially for passenger ops?

And the Virgin rumour sounds like an urban myth to me - along with TUI moving all their long haul from MAN

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Old 19th Aug 2022, 20:22
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Originally Posted by davidjpowell

There are rumours that at one point Virgin wanted to establish a Northern Hub, but could not agree on terms with Peel. While I'm a bit skeptical, I can see the logic...

.
Seen this a lot recently. ISTR that a local hotel had some Virgin product/service and that tenuous link led people to Ďput 2 and 2 togetherí.. This was not long after the airport opened when people were still fixated on the idea that the airport had the Ďlongest runway in Europeí etc.. Sounds to me like utter nonsense with absolutely no sound logic behind it whatsoever. Virgin seem pretty happy at MAN, where there is a large catchment are (i.e the North of England), and critical mass to support it. What logic would dictate they would operate from DSA I have absolutely no idea. It cant even attract KLM and not for the want of trying..

Yes LBA is rubbish for anyone outside of West Yorkshire, but itís where the people are. The airlines put up with the less than ideal location and runway to chase the demand and the (ever squeezed) ££..

Last edited by pug; 19th Aug 2022 at 20:54.
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 21:14
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Originally Posted by flybar
Some very poor Geography on here. West Yorkshire has a population of 2.5 million South Yorkshire 1.4 million.
Leeds is central in West Yorkshire, DSA is on the Eastern fringes of South Yorkshire with little population to the east.
People to the West of Leeds have Manchester as an alternative. They are not going to travel to DSA.
South Yorkshire tried an Airport on the fringes of Sheffield and it failed. The population of South Yorkshire will never support an airport whilst EMA and LBA are available.
I think youíre agreeing with me but yes this is the point I was making. Outside of South Yorkshire where can DSA attract passengers from?

West Yorkshire has LBA between Leeds and Bradford (the clue is in the name folks), Nottingham/Derby/Leicester combined is 1.5m approx and has EMA at its centre. Neither of those two markets are really threatened by DSA and thatís purely down to geography.
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Old 19th Aug 2022, 21:21
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Other then the parking agreement during the lockdowns (where DSA impounded their final aircraft for none payment of fee's (circa £50k owed) was then paid within 48 hours and ruined any future relationship), there has been no talks with Virgin.

TUI on the other hand parked all their aircraft FOC.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 02:23
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Originally Posted by dsamole
Other then the parking agreement during the lockdowns (where DSA impounded their final aircraft for none payment of fee's (circa £50k owed) was then paid within 48 hours and ruined any future relationship), there has been no talks with Virgin.

TUI on the other hand parked all their aircraft FOC.

The Doncaster mayor has put out a post saying a number of airlines and investors have been in discussions over the last few weeks. I wonder if this is BS?!
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 05:29
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Originally Posted by TimmyW
a number of airlines and investors
Zero is also a number.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 05:44
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Originally Posted by sunday8pm
I think you’re agreeing with me but yes this is the point I was making. Outside of South Yorkshire where can DSA attract passengers from?

West Yorkshire has LBA between Leeds and Bradford (the clue is in the name folks), Nottingham/Derby/Leicester combined is 1.5m approx and has EMA at its centre. Neither of those two markets are really threatened by DSA and that’s purely down to geography.
You must be forgetting that Nottinghamshire is a relatively large county! I live in it and we are 20 minutes from DSA but 1 hour from EMA. The Derbyshire border is literally only a mile away, too.

We would always use Doncaster by preference (and have done so on a number of occasions) but if the flights don’t exist, you can’t take them.

Manchester is a pain to get to and LBA is also difficult and when we have used it, not a happy experience.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 06:33
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You must be forgetting that Nottinghamshire is a relatively large county!
But where are the populatrion centres?

We would always use Doncaster by preference (and have done so on a number of occasions) but if the flights don’t exist, you can’t take them.
MAN and LBA are difficult because there are lots of flights going to where people want to go to, so lots of people. Small airports are great, but have a narrow range of flights so only appeal to a limited number of pax. The trick is how do you generate enough passengers to fill enough flights to make the airport sustainable?. The problem with DSA is it is a latecomer to the market, so how do you attract operators away from existing aiirports without paying them silly money?

Depending on whether your glass is half full or half empty, Peel have either tried and failed and are now crying enough, or where never really interested and were just playing the long game for the land (the area being so short of brownfield development sites... )
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 06:48
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Originally Posted by TimmyW
The latest letter from the Peel chairman makes things pretty clear. Their decision is already made
Originally Posted by TimmyW
This has to be seen as positive?

They could pull the plug next week at the end of the original period.

We shall see
If Peel's "decision is already made" what's the point of the extension?
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 06:51
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Originally Posted by tartan 201
If Peel's "decision is already made" what's the point of the extension?
Public perception and politics perhaps ? Sometimes one has to be seen to be trying to do the right thing... even if one has no real intention of doing so long term
"We made every effort to try to save the airport but sadly there was no stupid muppet with more money than sense willing to pay us £1 billion for land worth a fraction of that, so we're closing the airport and building warehouses instead.... but we want everyone to think we are a cuddly kind hearted charitable company"
Me ? Cynical ? Perish the thought !
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 07:22
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Peel bought Sheffield City airport for £1 with the proviso that they tried to keep the airfield open. However, if they could show that it was’t economically sustainable, the land could be developed for other purposes. It didn’t last long as an airport.

History has a habit of repeating itself.

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Old 20th Aug 2022, 07:35
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Peel bought Sheffield City airport for £1 with the proviso that they tried to keep the airfield open. However, if they could show that it wasít economically sustainable, the land could be developed for other purposes. It didnít last long as an airport.

History has a habit of repeating itself.
Sheffield City was an airport whose market disappeared (where else is surviving on short-haul turboprops?). They are also the company that transformed Liverpool.
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Old 20th Aug 2022, 09:45
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Originally Posted by TimmyW
The Doncaster mayor has put out a post saying a number of airlines and investors have been in discussions over the last few weeks. I wonder if this is BS?!
I think out of those in the public eye who are involved in this, Oliver Coppard is coming across the most conscientious and applying the right amount of discretion required. Would certainly trust what he is saying more than some of the mouthpiece MPís who have parachuted themselves in armed with cameras and multiple daily updates on various media platforms.

Perhaps Peel have extended in a hearts and minds campaign as David Johnson suggests above. But it does offer a glimmer of hope that things may be progressing.


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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 08:29
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Vulcan set to leave DSA

The Vulcan is set to leave DSA next year.

https://vulcantothesky.org/news/vulc...rport-in-2023/

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