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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 12th Sep 2022, 19:27
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
The local authorities play hard ball and imply to Peel that any development plans they may have for the site will be subject to prolonged scrutiny...
​​​​​​
​That wouldn't work. If the planning authority unreasonably drag their feet on any planning application, an applicant can appeal to the Secretary of State on the basis of non-determination, thus taking the decision out of the local authority's hands.
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 19:31
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Originally Posted by tartan 201 View Post
​​​​​​
​That wouldn't work. If the planning authority unreasonably drag their feet on any planning application, an applicant can appeal to the Secretary of State on the basis of non-determination, thus taking the decision out of the local authority's hands.
Who said anything about "unreasonable"??
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 19:34
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post

Also, are TUI and Wizz going to stick around waiting for something that may not happen?


DerrrÖ Are those the companies that are taking bookings for next year?
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 19:40
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Who said anything about "unreasonable"??
The council would have eight weeks to determine any planning application. An applicant can agree to an extension but, if no decision has been made within the eight weeks, can appeal to the SoS.
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 19:55
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Originally Posted by tartan 201 View Post
The council would have eight weeks to determine any planning application.
A decision can be ĎNoí
All the pre planning of Gateway East is based on the Airport being active.
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 20:09
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Wizz are off to Leeds according to rumour.
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 20:59
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Originally Posted by jumpseater View Post


DerrrÖ Are those the companies that are taking bookings for next year?
Means absolutely nothing
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 21:00
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
Wizz are off to Leeds according to rumour.
They're in advanced talks
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 04:24
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
A decision can be ĎNoí
All the pre planning of Gateway East is based on the Airport being active.
In which case the applicant has the right to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. The key point is that the applicant has the ability to take the decision out of the local authority's hands if either the LA drags their heels in making a decision or refuses permission. So the idea that the local authority can use their role in the planning system to have leverage over Peel in sale negotiations is not accurate.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 04:56
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
They're in advanced talks
Are MAG making a play for bringing Wizz to EMA?
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 05:54
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Would have thought MME might have been in with a shout given DSA were said to have nicked Wizz from them in the first place?
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 08:40
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You canít blame Wizz or Tui for upping sticks given the announcement by peel, airlines donít like uncertainty! Forward bookings might have fallen off a cliff given the announcement? I certainly wonít be booking a flight out of DSA until I know itís staying open 😢
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 09:24
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Originally Posted by tartan 201 View Post
In which case the applicant has the right to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. The key point is that the applicant has the ability to take the decision out of the local authority's hands if either the LA drags their heels in making a decision or refuses permission. So the idea that the local authority can use their role in the planning system to have leverage over Peel in sale negotiations is not accurate.
All correct, but there are significant timelines involved. Speaking to friends whom are professionally involved in airport and infrastructure transport planning, the due diligence element could realistically take 3-6 months depending on the availability of all required data and size of the project. After all this isnít a Ďsimpleí single building change proposal.
On the planning side their opinions were if change of use were refused, or the requirements for an active airport enforced an appeal could take place. However that would take in the order of 20-30 weeks, backed up by govt estimates, and both thought that as this were such a significant development in size and original scope , that it would likely go to a further planning enquiry in the appeal process. So the options for Peel arenít likely to be a fast track process.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 09:40
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
Wizz are off to Leeds according to rumour.
Of the options available to them and the core catchment area of their DSA customers that would be an unusual choice because of its relatively awkward location to get to. If they were to drag and drop their operations to LBA the timings are in conflict with the arrival wave of the based traffic, and the fact LBA often suffer weather related issues in winter would give WZZ some challenges operationally. Those aircraft are on last sectors rotations so having aircraft stuck or diverting immediately gives them the problem of crew hours/divert cost, and if they wait for connecting pax coming from LBA. MAN isnít a great deal further by road, and accessible by train easily, LBA isnít so LBA isnít the simple go to option, and itís not where their core market is.

The more logical location for them to look at is LTN or EMA, both CATIII capable. EMA though is as awkward to get to from Lincoln as LBA is in either public transport or road, LTNís traditional outreach to the east and East Midlands (as Buster the Bear will be professionally familiar with) still works. Thereís good reason why EZY/GO didnít expand at EMA, and thatís because of the ease of access to LTN/STN for the pax.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 10:21
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Originally Posted by jumpseater View Post
Of the options available to them and the core catchment area of their DSA customers that would be an unusual choice because of its relatively awkward location to get to. If they were to drag and drop their operations to LBA the timings are in conflict with the arrival wave of the based traffic, and the fact LBA often suffer weather related issues in winter would give WZZ some challenges operationally. Those aircraft are on last sectors rotations so having aircraft stuck or diverting immediately gives them the problem of crew hours/divert cost, and if they wait for connecting pax coming from LBA. MAN isnít a great deal further by road, and accessible by train easily, LBA isnít so LBA isnít the simple go to option, and itís not where their core market is.

The more logical location for them to look at is LTN or EMA, both CATIII capable. EMA though is as awkward to get to from Lincoln as LBA is in either public transport or road, LTNís traditional outreach to the east and East Midlands (as Buster the Bear will be professionally familiar with) still works. Thereís good reason why EZY/GO didnít expand at EMA, and thatís because of the ease of access to LTN/STN for the pax.
Would EMA have an impact on the BHX operation. In fact could an expansion at BHX be an alternative., distance wise its no different to LTN/STN, but not sure about public transport links
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 10:33
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Jumpseater... I agree Luton and Stansted are great for public transport... but for somebody wanting to travel to/from the main urban centres in Yorkshire and NE England... are they perhaps just a bit too far away for ground travel ?

Lincoln has pretty lousy public transport to many places... I would suggest public transport to Sheffield, Leeds and Newcastle as major cities should be the reference points in replacing DSA for Wizz

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 13th Sep 2022 at 10:47.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 10:51
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Originally Posted by Robert-Ryan View Post
Would have thought MME might have been in with a shout given DSA were said to have nicked Wizz from them in the first place?
Never understood that rumour, there was overlap between the two operations and Wizz as an aggressively expanding LCC didn't need to pick and choose they could have done both? Don't even think Warsaw was flown from DSA back in those early days as it was from MME so not exactly stolen business? Whilst the two catchment areas do overlap they are sufficiently far apart that Wizz could easily have operated from both
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 10:53
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Originally Posted by jumpseater View Post
The more logical location for them to look at is LTN or EMA, both CATIII capable. EMA though is as awkward to get to from Lincoln as LBA is in either public transport or road, LTN’s traditional outreach to the east and East Midlands (as Buster the Bear will be professionally familiar with) still works. There’s good reason why EZY/GO didn’t expand at EMA, and that’s because of the ease of access to LTN/STN for the pax.
Wizz does not give a * about ILS category. They operate a dozen bases for nearly two decades with CAT I. ILS (all the polish bases until 5-6 years ago, Kutaisi, Tuzla, Sarajevo, Skopje, Kyiv, Lviv, Debrecen, Craiova, Burgas, Varna etc) or sometimes even no ILS at all. They just tried to operate multiple daily flights to an airport (Kukes) with nada landing aids (not even an NDB) and no lighting (other than a PAPI). They failed as it was predicted but they were still stupid enough to try. If they get the money they don't care about operational circumstances.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 11:07
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Lincoln has pretty lousy public transport to many places... I would suggest public transport to Sheffield, Leeds and Newcastle as major cities should be the reference points in replacing DSA for Wizz
But this assumes that these cities are where the Wizz customers at DSA want to go. Do we know they want to go North and West from DSA rather than South and East?
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 11:09
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Don't think WIZZ going to Leeds is that surprising. The next nearest airport they would have a presence is Liverpool and West Yorkshire is a large growing catchment as is. Despite being away from motorways its still more centralised than Humberside or Teeside and not as far north as Newcastle. Yorkshire/North East aviation needs consolidation not a diluted setup of several small airports. DSA no loss whatsoever to the commercial sector.
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