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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 17th Aug 2022, 16:49
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
The majority PAX on W6 routes are south of the Humber, why would they travel to LBA? Surely HUY is the better alternative to DSA or is HUY management as inept as Peel.
I suspect the latter , Despite having an excellent connection to the Motorway network, plus potential for a railway station at HUY , with a nearby rail line .
There have been little or no new routes for years .
The last which comes to mind was the short lived Sunair , to Billund .
HUY would be an ideal airport , it would need a larger apron to support Wizzair .

Unlike Leeds it does not get the weather related closures due to seasonable stops , it has a Flag carrier connection to a fantastic hub.
Room to expand , and at one time did have a good route selection.
If the worst happened to DSA , one would hope , that TUI at least would move their operations to HUY , as it still has a fairly good potential customer base

Of course we don't want DSA to fail !.
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 19:29
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Originally Posted by EGPO View Post
I suspect the latter , Despite having an excellent connection to the Motorway network, plus potential for a railway station at HUY , with a nearby rail line .
There have been little or no new routes for years .
The last which comes to mind was the short lived Sunair , to Billund .
HUY would be an ideal airport , it would need a larger apron to support Wizzair .

Unlike Leeds it does not get the weather related closures due to seasonable stops , it has a Flag carrier connection to a fantastic hub.
Room to expand , and at one time did have a good route selection.
If the worst happened to DSA , one would hope , that TUI at least would move their operations to HUY , as it still has a fairly good potential customer base

Of course we don't want DSA to fail !.
Dont feel like the owners of Humberside are all that bothered about entering the race to the bottom. Seems to be ticking along quite nicely with what they have. I have no involvement with Humberside so could be way wide of the mark, but an increase in passenger business could paradoxically end up costing money in the longer term, as Peel seem to be finding.
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 19:59
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it has a Flag carrier connection to a fantastic hub.
That will be the night stopping KLM.

that TUI at least would move their operations to HUY
Where would the 4 additional nightstopping a/c park? Yes, a much larger apron (and terminal) would be needed. Where would they be situated?

Also, have a look at a map. Humberside is even further away from the major population centres than DSA was.

What does HUY give you that EMA or LBA don't?

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Old 17th Aug 2022, 20:13
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There have been little or no new routes for years .
The last which comes to mind was the short lived Sunair , to Billund .

Eastern to Newquay

Where would the 4 additional nightstopping a/c park? Yes, a
much larger apron (and terminal) would be needed.

Not sure the bold is needed. I've just looked back through my photo album and have a picture of 2 Air Europa B737's, an Airtours aircraft and an Eastern Jetstream 32 all parked up by the terminal at the same time (must have been around 20 years ago). Not aware any capacity has been removed since then. There is also the Southern Apron available (needs a bus to be used for passengers flights).
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 20:56
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Originally Posted by airhumberside View Post
Eastern to Newquay


Not sure the bold is needed. I've just looked back through my photo album and have a picture of 2 Air Europa B737's, an Airtours aircraft and an Eastern Jetstream 32 all parked up by the terminal at the same time (must have been around 20 years ago). Not aware any capacity has been removed since then. There is also the Southern Apron available (needs a bus to be used for passengers flights).
Looking at the aircraft parking chart on the AIP don't see how you get four 737 sized a/c and an Embraer parked.
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 20:57
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A 6 week consultation from 13 July takes us to 24 August. Is there a planned date for announcing the result ? Perhaps bury bad news over the Bank Holiday weekend at the end of August ?
I'm not under any illusions that the consultation is anything more than a box ticking exercise... but the decision has to be publicised at some point... and allow TUI and Wizz to publicly state their true intentions of when they will leave DSA

Better to have a clear and public decision that everyone understands, than leaving people in limbo, and allow people to make plans with a high degree of certainty of the outcome
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 21:43
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Looking at the aircraft parking chart on the AIP don't see how you get four 737 sized a/c and an Embraer parked.
I don't know if you could or not - what I was picking up on is the suggestion that a much larger apron would be needed to handle 4xB737's and 1xEmbraer. Stands 1, 2 and 3 can take a B737, with a Jetstream 41 on stand 4 to complete the main apron. I'm not sure on the capacity of the Southern Apron but it can definitely accommodate a B737. Whether it could take an Embraer 190 as well I don't know. But in this hypothetical scenario apron space would only be an issue for potentially 1 aircraft
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 21:58
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TUI have been invited by PEEL to talk about an exit plan.

100% not interested in saving this, PEEL want warehouses, the council want warehouses, all rubbing their hands together at a tenfold increase in rates/rent.

Ref Humberside; When I worked there back in the day, we used to have 2x Onur Air MD80's in, Air Europa 737 plus a KLM fokker 50/70 and easterns JS32/41's all on a Monday morning. Problem is now, health and safety dictates space and the stands are now much much larger then they was 15 years ago.
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 23:13
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Originally Posted by dsamole View Post
TUI have been invited by PEEL to talk about an exit plan.

100% not interested in saving this, PEEL want warehouses, the council want warehouses, all rubbing their hands together at a tenfold increase in rates/rent.

Ref Humberside; When I worked there back in the day, we used to have 2x Onur Air MD80's in, Air Europa 737 plus a KLM fokker 50/70 and easterns JS32/41's all on a Monday morning. Problem is now, health and safety dictates space and the stands are now much much larger then they was 15 years ago.
There is space for HUY to grow its stand provision. I could be wrong but I seem to remember when Excel based there in 2006 and planned their increased aircraft to 2 based units in 2007, there were plans to extend the apron onto the light aircraft park. A bit of reconfiguration would allow for the numbers talked about here. That said, there is no chance HUY could sustain more than a single based aircraft with TUI with perhaps an extra in summer. And again, at what cost to the airport?

This is what Peel are finding, ultimately these days you need a critical mass of a few million passengers per year to cover overheads. Constant increase in regulations and the requirement to constantly invest in capital infrastructure projects basically prices the small players out of the market. DSA could be THE Yorkshire airport, sadly demand driven airlines who are looking to cut costs further and drive hard bargains are going to the airports that can absorb that cost, and have a proven track record of filling flights.
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Old 17th Aug 2022, 23:18
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Any chance 1 of the tui based aircraft may end up at MME, if the mayors pockets allow?
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 06:37
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I don't think HUY would realistically take more than a single based TUI aircraft anyway, something like the ABZ or NWI kind of schedule. The rest would likely go to EMA, LBA or MAN.

As for the Mexico and Florida routes, EMA or STN could be contenders for those, unless they're just incorporated into MAN.

I'm of the opinion that of course we don't want to see airports close and significant job losses. But those jobs have to be sustainable and the airport financially viable and sadly that's never really been the case. I think it would be wrong for taxpayers to pay for an airport that will support no more than a few holiday flights when there's plenty of more financially viable alternatives already available.
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 15:01
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Originally Posted by FRatSTN View Post
I don't think HUY would realistically take more than a single based TUI aircraft anyway, something like the ABZ or NWI kind of schedule. The rest would likely go to EMA, LBA or MAN.

As for the Mexico and Florida routes, EMA or STN could be contenders for those, unless they're just incorporated into MAN.

I'm of the opinion that of course we don't want to see airports close and significant job losses. But those jobs have to be sustainable and the airport financially viable and sadly that's never really been the case. I think it would be wrong for taxpayers to pay for an airport that will support no more than a few holiday flights when there's plenty of more financially viable alternatives already available.
Absolutely agree, HUY could work as a single aircraft base for Tui a la Norwich/Exeter etc. There would be no need to expand on current facilities to accommodate a single based 737. At itís peak, HUY had 30+ IT flights a week.

kind regards

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Old 18th Aug 2022, 19:30
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Nick Fletcher MP turned up this afternoon with a camera crew to portray how busy DSA is, impeccable timing as the Pakistan flight was checking in..
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 19:50
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Frastn
I think given the financial support given to the SE compared with the rest of the UK that is a little rich. Not everyone outside the M25 automatically defers to LHR and we can not even get to Gatwick. Anyway I voted with my feet and use LH out of Man to Munich for my regular commute, and Emirates and SQ for other areas depending on part of the world. BA and LHR have always been average or below throughout this century.

Cheers
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 20:41
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Originally Posted by dsamole View Post
Nick Fletcher MP turned up this afternoon with a camera crew to portray how busy DSA is, impeccable timing as the Pakistan flight was checking in..
Genius. I was under the impression that these Pakistan flights were only a temporary switch to DSA from MAN and would always have been reinstated at MAN post the current summer slot constraints.
So it's not even a case of trying to retain these by keeping the airport operational, as I understand it.
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 20:56
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There's only a small number of these JAV flights remaining before they switch back to MAN.
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 21:13
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Not everyone outside the M25 automatically defers to LHR and we can not even get to Gatwick. I voted with my feet and use LH out of Man to Munich for my regular commute, and Emirates and SQ for other areas depending on part of the world.
Where did my post suggest you should travel to the SE? The fact you use MAN for your connectivity, doesn't that rather prove the point that viable alternatives are available.

Regional hub connectivity is strategically important to the wider economy and calls for financial support if it's in itself unprofitable. A small number of holiday flights that are readily available from 3-4 other airports within a 40-50 mile radius I don't think has the same justification for public funding. Sorry if you disagree.
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 21:18
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Fine. Donít provide revenue support but why not adopt the US approach where airports are recognised as essential infrastructure and so can qualify for federal funding for runways, terminal and security improvements and other technical kit. U.K. airports carry the full burden with very limited state aid. Not having to do so would reduce the pressure enormously.
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 21:39
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If it were the US then yes maybe the outlook would be different given their totally different socio-economic structure. But there's one problem in that it isn't... Like it or not it's rip off Britain.
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Old 18th Aug 2022, 22:39
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Originally Posted by AndrewH52 View Post
Fine. Donít provide revenue support but why not adopt the US approach where airports are recognised as essential infrastructure and so can qualify for federal funding for runways, terminal and security improvements and other technical kit.
I do not see airports like Doncaster Sheffield as essential Infrastructure. Why would it be?
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