Stansted-4
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From: Between the flower pots
PM says it open up new routes for work and holiday destinations Starmer says deal the “first of tens of billions worth of inward investment deals that we will sign today, because we're determined to lead the way on growth”
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From: UK
At the same time Starmer will soon be forcing the car manufacturers to sell only EV’s and the electorate to buy heat pumps only while at the same time the aviation industry has no restrictions, In fact it is being encouraged to expand according to the Stansted announcement. So what is MAG going to do to control aircraft emissions at Stansted? Seems nothing, just like the government.
Airlines are waiting longer for more new fuel efficient aircraft like the A320neo and B737MAX families due to supply chain shortages across the aircraft industry in general.
Airlines and airports have been lobbying the government to hurry up the process of acquiring SAF and producing it in the UK, but compared to the USA, the UK & EU are very much behind in this field.
So moving forward, improvements to the airfield and terminal is much overdue and welcome, whilst at the same time environmental improvements are also ongoing all within the tools that the industry has available to them!
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From: Italy
Terminal transformation - satellite and gate room upgrades
Good to see further info released today re. Stansted's transformation terminal extension project. Regarding the satellite and gate areas specifically, the notes in the press release are a little vague with no CGI images to show what'll be happening to the satellites. The only projects relating to gate room areas and the satellites are "gate room reconfiguration" (not sure if this is focused on satellites 2 and 3, or satellite 2 only), as well as "flooring and seating upgrades for satellite 2, plus a new bar area". Sat 1 was upgraded fairly recently (2015/16), so won't expect any modifications for gates 1-19. Hopefully satellite 3 also receives a little tlc.
Regarding satellite 2 however, I'm so glad to finally see it receive a much-needed facelift after so many years. It has honestly felt neglected (by both BAA and MAG) and feels like it's been stuck in a time warp when you compare to sat 1 and even dare I say, sat 3. Just wish there was more info out there/design concepts on what MAG are proposing for sat 2 once the upgrade programme has been completed. Will also be interesting to know what the reconfiguration will be like with the TTS as well as the footbridge to gates 81-88 going.
Regarding satellite 2 however, I'm so glad to finally see it receive a much-needed facelift after so many years. It has honestly felt neglected (by both BAA and MAG) and feels like it's been stuck in a time warp when you compare to sat 1 and even dare I say, sat 3. Just wish there was more info out there/design concepts on what MAG are proposing for sat 2 once the upgrade programme has been completed. Will also be interesting to know what the reconfiguration will be like with the TTS as well as the footbridge to gates 81-88 going.
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From: Outer London
When the TTS has gone I assume it will become a bit like Dublin or a much larger version of Glasgow, in that you can freely wonder to any gate you want in any part of the terminal and enjoy nice views out, natural light and some plane spotting.
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From: Italy
Assuming the TP materialises into what we’re seeing in the CGI images in the press release today, what’re everyone’s thoughts? The new departure lounge layout actually looks pretty good and more spacious- sort of reminds me of what STN’s departure lounge was like when BAA owned the airport before MAG remodelled it during 2013-15.
Last edited by JW95; 14th October 2024 at 21:24.
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From: Essex
Assuming the TP materialises into what we’re seeing in the CGI images in the press release today, what’re everyone’s thoughts? The new departure lounge layout actually looks pretty good and more spacious- sort of reminds me of what STN’s departure lounge was like when BAA owned the airport before MAG remodelled it during 2013-15.
Main benefits include:
-The maintaining of a single security area, able to be enlarged with the replacement of domestic arrivals.
-A larger departure lounge extension without having to displace much of the existing baggage reclaim infrastructure in arrivals.
-Allows decommissioning of the TTS. They'll be mixed opinions on this no doubt, but this is too expensive to maintain/upgrade and creates all sorts of bottlenecks in both BAU and breakdown scenarios, as well as having to retrieve passengers that cannot return to the main terminal currently if they go to the wrong satellite or have a missed/cancelled flight.
-Terminal extension to the rear effectively moves the main passenger dwell areas closer to the satellites, mitigating the impact of further walking distances/level changes created by TTS removal.
The main disadvantage is that there's limited ability to improve landside capacity with only a rear-Terminal extension, especially towards the arrivals end as well as forecourt drop-off/pick-up. The new domestic arrivals facility I feel will likely be somewhat temporary until a possible subsequent phase of development for arrivals beyond 2030, which MAG have loosely referred to in a previous annual statement.
I think one of the earlier fears was that any terminal extension was going to be an "on the cheap" tin shed style building bolted on the side of the existing building, much like the forecourt security extension which is supposedly temporary. This however wouldn't really provide an adequate solution partly because of the scale and elevation of the building above ground level which would still require substantial structural support. Plus it would essentially be a separate peice of infrastructure requiring different electrical, lighting, heating requirements and would not be so compatible with net zero goals, which I believe is why a single terminal concept with the original Norman Foster design has been stuck with for the extension... so I've heard anyway.
With regards to gate improvements, this is not simply a case of aesthetics. The passenger flow needs to be addressed with the new skylinks access in which the current domestic area with Gates 81-88 is particularly problematic, since there's no way to segregate departures from intl arrivals currently, hence Sat 2 will need to be reconfigured into a fully split-level facility much like Sat 1 is. The reference in the MAG release to "gate room reconfiguration to create more space for passengers pre-boarding their aircraft" will most likely be in the form of fully closed-gates more conventional to modern airport design (ie you scan your boarding pass then wait in an enclosed space/room until the aircraft is ready to board). Currently Gate 52 in the far end of Sat 3 is the only real pre-board gate at STN, with everything else a botched solution by holding passengers in corridors or stairwells. Ryanair is happy to do that, but most other airlines will not pre-board unless there's a certain level of space/seating provision.
As for shoreline check-in, there's not much ability to add additional desks but this isn't the way to create planned additional throughput. Currently the zoned check-in layout is restrictive as there isn't the floor space, whereas the shoreline layout should largely address that along with more common-user check-in rather than individual desks for each airline, in which a zoned layout wouldn't really work. Only this week Ryanair have indicated their aim to remove check-in desks entirely and have all boarding passes issued electronically by next summer. The future will become increasingly an express baggage drop-and-go type service pooled amongst most airlines, and that goes for everywhere not just STN.
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From: Italy
With regards to gate improvements, this is not simply a case of aesthetics. The passenger flow needs to be addressed with the new skylinks access in which the current domestic area with Gates 81-88 is particularly problematic, since there's no way to segregate departures from intl arrivals currently, hence Sat 2 will need to be reconfigured into a fully split-level facility much like Sat 1 is. The reference in the MAG release to "gate room reconfiguration to create more space for passengers pre-boarding their aircraft" will most likely be in the form of fully closed-gates more conventional to modern airport design (ie you scan your boarding pass then wait in an enclosed space/room until the aircraft is ready to board). Currently Gate 52 in the far end of Sat 3 is the only real pre-board gate at STN, with everything else a botched solution by holding passengers in corridors or stairwells. Ryanair is happy to do that, but most other airlines will not pre-board unless there's a certain level of space/seating provision.
However, I do think that having actual closed-off gate room areas at STN with more seating provision will dramatically improve the passenger pre-boarding experience versus what it has been
I hope that MAG proceeds with this and doesn't cut corners.
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From: Essex
Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but assuming that MAG decides to completely remodel and reconfigure satellite 2 to include fully-closed gate rooms, similar to say LGW pier 2 of the South Terminal and LHR Terminal 3, how is this going to be accommodated in an open-plan satellite boarding area, and how will this work when all gates and jet bridges need to be accessed via escalators one floor below? Surely these gate rooms would feel pretty narrow and cramped? This sounds like a major project for Sat 2 (even more so than the refurb of Sat 1 was), so I'd imagine it would be out of use for quite some time, so aircraft stand and gate provision would be fairly restricted. I'm also wondering what is to become of the existing gates 81-88, are these set to go when the existing footbridge from the terminal gets demolished? In a way, I'm sort of surprised that MAG opted not to install conventional gate rooms in sat 1 when it was refurbished, since most of the airlines other than FR and EZY use these gates. I don't think sat 3 will see many, if any changes during the terminal transformation plan (extension).
Sat 3 is different in that there is complete separation of departure and arrival flows. Departures come from the links upstairs whereas arrivals go straight into the building across the road at apron level, unlike Sat 1 and 2.
As for Gates 81-88, these would have to be redesigned to accommodate intl arrivals. These serve Stands B30-32R and C40-C42L. If you look at the GCI images of the Skylinks on the MAG video you can see a new split level access to Sat 2 from the new bussing gates. Currently at Gates 81-88, this split level doesn't exist.
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From: Italy
I wouldn't know the exact details but I'd suspect there would be some reconfiguration of the arrivals level in Sat 1 and 2 and pre-boarding passengers would be held there. So my guess would be you'd scan your boarding pass as now in the main departures area then go down the stairs/escalators to a newly designed pre-boarding space segregated from arrival flows. Staff operated doors would then allow departures to enter the links/airbridge once arriving pax have cleared, which is pretty much what happens now except for the lack of pre-boarding space. There's already some unused/poorly used space round those areas which could maybe be remodeled.
Sat 3 is different in that there is complete separation of departure and arrival flows. Departures come from the links upstairs whereas arrivals go straight into the building across the road at apron level, unlike Sat 1 and 2.
As for Gates 81-88, these would have to be redesigned to accommodate intl arrivals. These serve Stands B30-32R and C40-C42L. If you look at the GCI images of the Skylinks on the MAG video you can see a new split level access to Sat 2 from the new bussing gates. Currently at Gates 81-88, this split level doesn't exist.
Sat 3 is different in that there is complete separation of departure and arrival flows. Departures come from the links upstairs whereas arrivals go straight into the building across the road at apron level, unlike Sat 1 and 2.
As for Gates 81-88, these would have to be redesigned to accommodate intl arrivals. These serve Stands B30-32R and C40-C42L. If you look at the GCI images of the Skylinks on the MAG video you can see a new split level access to Sat 2 from the new bussing gates. Currently at Gates 81-88, this split level doesn't exist.
Last edited by JW95; 17th October 2024 at 08:13.
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From: 35,000ft
This makes sense. I believe something similar exists at some of the gates at LGW North Terminal pier 6, where a passenger scans their boarding pass before taking an escalator down to the main holding area/gate room. So this kind of solution makes sense as far as STN satellite 2 is concerned. I wonder if MAG are planning on any reconfigurations to sat 3? My guess is that with only FR using it, gates there will likely be remodelled to resemble the bus shelter-style 'perched' seating as currently seen at gates 43, 48 and 50. As for gates 81-88, this will be complicated, as these are one floor down from gates 20-39, as well as well as being shared (e.g. gates 30/88, 32/87).
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Are you with me, JW95 👍
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I've seen that CGI video several times now, and every time I view it, I still don't understand why a Satellite 4 is not part of the transformation plans. It would avoid a lot of the planned bussing. It seems like a missing part of a puzzle and makes absolute sense to be built. The whole entire revamped terminal complex, along with four satellites would just finish the airport off.
Are you with me, JW95 👍
Are you with me, JW95 👍
Joined: Sep 2019
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From: Italy
I've seen that CGI video several times now, and every time I view it, I still don't understand why a Satellite 4 is not part of the transformation plans. It would avoid a lot of the planned bussing. It seems like a missing part of a puzzle and makes absolute sense to be built. The whole entire revamped terminal complex, along with four satellites would just finish the airport off.
Are you with me, JW95 👍
Are you with me, JW95 👍
I too am perplexed as to why a sat 4 is not being included in the plans (at least for now). IIRC, BAA had actually planned for a future sat 4 which was to be connected via an extension of the existing transit system. Of course now this has all changed with the TTS going, but given STN's passenger numbers now, and where MAG are forecasting them for the future, gate and aircraft stand availability is going to become a major issue, especially with larger aircraft being allocated to STN on a more regular basis. As mentioned above, it looks like MAG have a major project in place for satellite 2 as far as its refurbishment and gate room reconfiguration are concerned, so much of this area will likely be out out of use for an extended time. This will therefore place even further constraints to gate/stand availability.If MAG do decide on a u-turn (look at what happened with the arrivals building for instance), and decide on a 4th satellite 4, where do people think this would be located? I'd imagine it would replicate a lot of what sat 3 is currently, hence being aimed at FR as its primary user.
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From: Southampton
Oh I agree with you my friend, as always I too am perplexed as to why a sat 4 is not being included in the plans (at least for now). IIRC, BAA had actually planned for a future sat 4 which was to be connected via an extension of the existing transit system. Of course now this has all changed with the TTS going, but given STN's passenger numbers now, and where MAG are forecasting them for the future, gate and aircraft stand availability is going to become a major issue, especially with larger aircraft being allocated to STN on a more regular basis. As mentioned above, it looks like MAG have a major project in place for satellite 2 as far as its refurbishment and gate room reconfiguration are concerned, so much of this area will likely be out out of use for an extended time. This will therefore place even further constraints to gate/stand availability.
If MAG do decide on a u-turn (look at what happened with the arrivals building for instance), and decide on a 4th satellite 4, where do people think this would be located? I'd imagine it would replicate a lot of what sat 3 is currently, hence being aimed at FR as its primary user.
I too am perplexed as to why a sat 4 is not being included in the plans (at least for now). IIRC, BAA had actually planned for a future sat 4 which was to be connected via an extension of the existing transit system. Of course now this has all changed with the TTS going, but given STN's passenger numbers now, and where MAG are forecasting them for the future, gate and aircraft stand availability is going to become a major issue, especially with larger aircraft being allocated to STN on a more regular basis. As mentioned above, it looks like MAG have a major project in place for satellite 2 as far as its refurbishment and gate room reconfiguration are concerned, so much of this area will likely be out out of use for an extended time. This will therefore place even further constraints to gate/stand availability.If MAG do decide on a u-turn (look at what happened with the arrivals building for instance), and decide on a 4th satellite 4, where do people think this would be located? I'd imagine it would replicate a lot of what sat 3 is currently, hence being aimed at FR as its primary user.
Regarding the site for a satellite 4. The space is already available along with the stands. The link from the terminal to satellite 3 only needs to be extended towards a possible satellite. 4. The walk from a satellite 4 to the terminal would probably be just slightly further than to satellite 1, but it wouldn't be an issue.
As you've rightly pointed out with MAG changing their mind on the arrivals extension. They could at some point go ahead with a satellite 4. Let's hoping anyway, as it would definitely make the airport more complete having four satellites.
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