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Old 6th Feb 2021, 09:29
  #201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Just goes to show the stand limitations even with Embraer operations. Things could be improved if they removed the extended section of the short stay car park and moved stands 8-12 back. This would allow for maybe 3 or 4 larger which could accommodate Airbus aircraft. No idea if this has ever been looked at however!

Last edited by SKOJB; 6th Feb 2021 at 13:56.
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Old 6th Feb 2021, 15:00
  #202 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Looking at E190 ops, based upon a total length of 36.24M and a fin height of 10.57 metres it may be possible to accommodate them nose in on Stands 8-12. Stands 6-7 are restricted by the baggage make-up area so probably non-starters.

Since the apron was constructed the ICAO obstacle clearance requirements for Code 3/4 runways has become slightly more liberal due to the runway strip width having been reduced from 150 to 140 metres. Extending out from this at a 1:7 gradient is the Transitional Surface (aka “sideslope”). This is the limiting obstacle clearance requirement for nose-in parking on Stands 6-14.

The strip width reduction (assuming that a Stand is at the same elevation as the point that its centreline meets the runway centreline) will buy an extra 1.42M fin height at the back of Stand. By adjusting the Stand markings/indicator boards, removing/reducing ground equipment bays, extension of Stand 12 definitely possible, although may mean moving the boundary fence into that part of the original short-term park that they didn’t multi storey. That would of course provide replacement storage area for ground equipment, currently used for hire car parking. Such mods may even permit larger aircraft.

Even if complete avoidance of the Transitional Surface is not possible it may be possible to secure CAA approval for nose-in parking due to the temporary nature that the fin presents, something that I believe may have already been secured for parking of E jets and larger on Stand 5.

From what I remember of the multi-decking of the Short Term, the folly of which I have banged on about in past posts, due to the way it is constructed it is unlikely to be economically viable to modify to provide additional Stand length for B737/A320 nose-in. That said Stand 12 may be viable due to the ability to move the fence.

The only other factor that could come into play is that the bearing strength of the apron on Stands 5-14 is considerably less than 1-4. Hopefully not another construction shortcut that will come back and bite.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 15th Feb 2021 at 09:57.
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Old 6th Feb 2021, 15:21
  #203 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Thanks TCAS great info. Yes, I had thought about stand 12 and maybe the airport could take this back slightly in to the car park area, itís definitely wide enough to accommodate Airbus etc and this would potentially give them 5 larger stands with the apron also being reconfigured. They certainly need to do something as itís probably not even fit for 5 E90ís in current configuration.
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Old 6th Feb 2021, 15:36
  #204 (permalink)  
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Given the hammering that the airport's finances have no doubt taken over the last year, it may be a case of making do for this summer and letting the increased demand build up a case for investment once passengers numbers start to build.
As much as I'd like to see more airside infrastructure I can't imagine the airport will be keen to spend money straight away if there's any way they can accommodate the current planned operations with the existing layout, even if it means a bit of extra hassle for a summer or two.

Last edited by The Nutts Mutts; 6th Feb 2021 at 16:16.
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Old 15th Feb 2021, 09:49
  #205 (permalink)  
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Location: UK
Posts: 223
Blue Islands flights to Dublin and Manchester from Southampton postponed now until 7th June per booking engine.
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Old 15th Feb 2021, 17:07
  #206 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I've flown in and out of Southampton these past thirty years. Southampton's problem is space - lack of it ! Others have commented similarly. Bounded on the south by the M27, on the west by the M3 and sundry secondary road routes and on the north by the railway track, buildings and assorted sidings and as many chimney pots north and south as you won't be able to count.

The answer to an effective regional airport located virtually in Southampton lies in development of Lee-on- Solent or, if you prefer, the former HMS Daedalus. The last time I looked it was a haven of aviation surrounded by green fields on the edge of the Solent. There would be transportation/connection problems to overcome but, it looks, at least superficially, as worthy of a feasibility study. Indeed, it might have been done.
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Old 15th Feb 2021, 19:24
  #207 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2018
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I'm conflicted on this. I work in aviation but I also live about 5 NM out below the G/S for 20 and don't want A320s/ 737s going overhead, on the other hand I don't want to see job losses and houses.

I'm also conflicted about development of Daedalus - as we all call it, still - I fly out of there regularly, and learned to fly there with Phoenix.

It's tricky - and no mistake.
That elusive balance.

Given present circumstances a definite HOLD should be put on any major proposals for at least the next 12 months.
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Old 15th Feb 2021, 19:54
  #208 (permalink)  
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The Airport Operators Association said earlier this month:

'Based on analysis before the pandemic worsened, Steer (their consultants) estimated that passenger numbers would not return to 2019 levels any earlier than 2025 in the most optimistic scenario (a gradual easing of travel restrictions in 2021 in line with a successful vaccine roll-out across the globe). So far, increased restrictions in 2021 mean a full traffic recovery by 2025 is an ever-more unlikely prospect'.

Meanwhile Eurocontrol said at the end of January:
“What remains unclear currently is the situation thereafter (Q1). It is reasonable to expect that the epidemiological situation will have improved in many European States by Q2 and that the most vulnerable citizens across Europe will have been vaccinated (despite delays in the roll-out). In turn, this could lead to the possibility for non-essential air travel to become more accessible, which would facilitate a small improvement during Q2, followed by a larger recovery in the summer period. If that’s the case, then we could see levels around -55% of 2019 (flights) by June. However, it is also reasonable to expect that, even if the epidemiological situation has improved by Q2, many States may potentially choose not to relax their national travel restrictions, which will severely curtail demand and any possibility for air travel to improve until the summer period at the very earliest. If that’s the case, then we’re still looking at -70% by June."

2021 looks increasingly shot, it will be a several years yet before airports anywhere (in UK) can spend money. Much the same right across Europe.
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Old 15th Feb 2021, 20:12
  #209 (permalink)  
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Putting a hold on airport development now will only kick the can down the road for a further time. Improvements should have happened years ago and now is arguably the absolute right time to bring forward the planning application in readiness for 2 years time when there is no doubt that leisure travel will become centre stage once again. I disagree with those who suggest air travel will never be the same as most families are chomping at the bit to go abroad once more and many have large amounts of disposable income saved up from these past 12 months. SOU will never be a 5m pax airport but back up to 2m and the airport will thrive once again with a good number of U.K. regional connections (albeit at reduced frequencies) and a better selection of European sun and city destinations. Airfield space is a problem but with BA and their smaller Embraerís and maybe a low cost airline that is willing to base a single aircraft to a handful of routes, this shouldnít be a problem and will be sufficient with the 4 larger stands. The airport still has many attributes over and above other regionals and looks to have built back well from the demise of Flybe so itís future although uncertain, has the potential to thrive once again fairly quickly
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Old 15th Feb 2021, 21:53
  #210 (permalink)  
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It's very evident that it will be many years before SOU recovers from the covid19 outbreak,indeed it could be said that it and possibly other airports might never recover.Certainly investment will not be forthcoming and runway extension plans will be shelved. Sun holidays for this year surely have little chance of happening,and given the virus unpredictably for next winter 2022 looks very uncertain.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 00:54
  #211 (permalink)  
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A little overly pessimistic there somewhat. Whilst i don’t think it will be a normal summer in terms of numbers, I’m confident there will be a summer season in some form or another. I simply cannot see this summer being worse than last when the most vulnerable across Europe will have been vaccinated. I don’t think the public will stand for it and there would be intense pressure on governments from the airlines and tourism industries. The current theatre of quarantine is the result of a government reacting to pressure, come summer that pressure will swing quite the opposite way should the vaccination programme still be progressing at pace.

A failure to have any sort of summer this year will be absolute decimation for the airlines, let alone a disrupted summer 2022 which would be apocalyptic.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 07:21
  #212 (permalink)  
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Well, most of the people I know and speak to have essentially written this year off for a foreign holiday. The main issue is that nobody can plan anything with any certainty. Who knows when the international restrictions will be lifted. The UK is leading the way with regard to vaccinations, but most of Europe is way behind with their programme which again casts further doubt as to the timing of those countries being open for tourism.

In short, it’s not a rosy picture.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 23:43
  #213 (permalink)  
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Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
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I totally agree! Getting my cash back for cancelled trips meant credit card charge backs, lengthy travel insurance claim and hours on the phone. Airlines and tour operators illegally holding on to our money, no wonder millions like me will wait for certainty! You reap what you sow.
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Old 17th Feb 2021, 01:40
  #214 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe
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I understand once bitten, twice shy - but I think itís rather unfair to tar them all with the same brush and a shame you donít seem to want to show any support for the industry for which you clearly take an interest in (causing you to frequent this forum for many a year) and for which you presumably hope will still be in existence to take you on your holidays in the future.

Whilst some companies more than others may have been more awkward when it came to dealing with applications for refunds last year, donít forget that they all had to deal with millions of enquiries and refund transactions at a time when all call centres were effectively closed down and staff had to work from home, with booking systems that were not necessarily designed to be accessed remotely from a personal computer and personal telephone lines not previously integrated into the company networks. Iíd say that like all of us, theyíve had a lot to learn and get used to in the past year, but I believe that even those companies that were being awkward last time around wouldnít risk their reputations a second time if restrictions meant that travel plans had to be postponed or cancelled again this year.

Most now provide a COVID-safe booking policy for peace of mind and obviously if you book a package and then the worst happens, youíll be ATOL protected.
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Old 19th Feb 2021, 08:35
  #215 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
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Eastern basing an E90 at SOU is at present only going to be utilised 2 days a week for Gibraltar, they must surely have other work for it or is it the usual Eastern route methodology of square pegs in round holes?!

Last edited by SKOJB; 19th Feb 2021 at 15:26.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 17:15
  #216 (permalink)  
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Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
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I do and have worked in the industry and the shameful manner in which many airlines and tour operators hung on to money, or exchanged them for unwanted vouchers even after many many months. Jet2 set the standard high, shame others were more concern about dividends to shareholder than customers. I shall withhold paying any airline money until I get certainty. When you are chasing a five figure sum, it kind of focuses your attention on the good and the bad.
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Old 20th Feb 2021, 17:19
  #217 (permalink)  
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Would have thought there are a few former Flybe French routes or even Palma / Malaga / Faro that might be worth a crack?
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 01:09
  #218 (permalink)  
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From personal experience Iíve had nothing but good experiences with several carriers this last year including BA, LH and U2.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 15:55
  #219 (permalink)  
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Location: Southampton, U.K
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BA seem to have added an extra Malaga flight, now 2.5 weekly rather than 1.5. 1 departure on Sat, and 2 on Sun and 2 arrivals both on Sat.

TUI are also now selling holidays using the BA flights to Ibiza, Malaga, Palma (Sundays only) and Faro (previously on sale).

Volotea appear to just be flying a Saturday flight to Palma now for TUI.

Last edited by adfly; 21st Feb 2021 at 16:10.
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Old 21st Feb 2021, 18:05
  #220 (permalink)  
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Good news and with the likelihood of vaccine passports now probable, not possible, this summer might not be completely lost as some have suggested. Seems the government are already speaking to several nations about brits abroad being allowed to enter including Greece and Spain
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